Project "Payback"

[Flash68]

200,000 views.... you, sir, are now a Jedi Warrior. :D

[69x22]

Todd I thought I read somewhere that you put some kind of plastic protector on your lower quarter panels to protect the paint. If you did where did you get the stuff and would you do it again?

[Vegas69]

My lifetime goal was to hit 200,000 views on a forum, lock the thread, and sell the car. :lol:

I did have film installed behind the front and rear wheels. I'd do it again, just sooner. I'd do the whole bottom half of the car from the front wheels next time.

[Matt@BOS]

Did you get rock chips behind the front wheels? First time around I wrapped pretty much the whole bottom half of my car below the body line, but I'm wondering if that was overkill. We learned it's actually easier to buff out cone rash on paint than on the clear bra. The line where the film ends also kinda bugged me too, even though it wasn't very noticeable until up close.

Matt

[DFRESH]

My harness bar came in yesterday from Ridetech. The were nice enough to give me a $250 gift certificate for placing their stickers on my car during the Optima Challenge. After watching the road course video, I realized how often I had to reposition myself. Rodney and I cooked up a plan to make one of their Tiger Cage cross bars work for my application. Rodney sent out the clamps and I measured the center to center and they welded it up and sent it my way. I'm really impressed with the Tiger Cage materials and fitment. Rodney mentioned they may start offering these to the public and set up a jig for my bar.

The plan is to install it for events only with a set of 5 point Simpson harnesses.(I need to order tomorrow) Two bolts and a little love from a plastic hammer is all it takes to install and remove the bar. I switch back and forth between two seat settings on the street and the farthest back postion I like isn't available with the harness bar. I plan to lay the lap belts in the rear floor board and bolt them into the same position as my current 3 point. Some of you are probably wondering why the bar is so high. Your belts should be close to 90 when belted in the car. Opinions vary but they should be mounted between 10 degrees down and slighly above 90. Sure I could've mounted them lower to make them less of an eye sore but I'm always function over form.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/HarnessBar024.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/HarnessBar019.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/HarnessBar017.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/HarnessBar010.jpg

That came out great brother---great idea using their joints. You will love the lap belts---especially in the rain---lol. I think we are going to have a lot of extra Taco meat left over for Sunday. We will scramble it with eggs on Sunday A.M.. See you tomorrow. Futon is ready--so are Christian and Natalie.

Doug

[Vegas69]

Anybody that tracks their car should consider clear bra from the body crease down if they can't stand some wear and tear. I agree that cone rash comes off easy on paint and I have some scuffs on my clear bra. When you go to R compounds it is even more important. One thing most don't realize in in front of the rear tire is very important. Rocks are slung down against the pavement and bounce up around the louver area. At the end of the day, it's some clear coat, wet sanding, and buffing. Who gives a flying .... I'll drive mine and worry about that at some day yet to be determined. This ain't no show car.

[Sieg]

Here's a source for 2.8 mil clear film: http://www.signsupply.com/Vinyl/MacTac/9800.asp
5 color from the top left is clear, 15" x 10 yd roll is $30.

I've used Ordway Sign Supply for my Stika cutter and vinyl supplies for 5 years or so, they've consistently provided above average service.

[69x22]

Thanks for the info.

[skatinjay27]

200,000 views.... you, sir, are now a Jedi Warrior. :Dwhoa, whoa, whoa, todds a Big blocker there for he's from the dark side... so i guess hes now a sith lord! lol

200k view eat that doc renner!

[awr68]

200,000 views.... you, sir, are now a Jedi Warrior. :D

Not bad...not bad at all! ;) :captain:

[Vegas69]

What a crazy 4 day adventure. We trailered down Thursday afternoon to our resident magazine editor brown noser's house, Dfresh. Commonly known as Doc Renner. I always enjoy pulling a 24ft trailer in LA in rush hour. :D Anyway, Doug, Cassie, Chris, and Natalie put us up again this year. Thanks again for the hospitality buddy. :cheers: Dave(Flash) & Rich joined us this year at the house. I don't think Rich will be invited back, he drank all the Renner's beer and snores like a horse. :lol:

I had 5200 miles on the clock and my car had never been driven in the rain. That was all about to change. On Friday we all headed out for the cruise. It ended up being about 87 miles that started down the 101 and up a twisty scenic highway. I'm not sure if my car is a cop magnet, but I spotted 4-5 cops on the route. I was towards the back of the pack. It really just sprinkled on the road trip. Rain X doesn't work that well under freeway speeds. My Vintage Air heater works great! The cruise ended at Spectre and we had lunch and bull ****ted. We skipped out and headed back to the house to barbeque and tweak on Dave's car.

It poured all night long. When I woke up Saturday, I wasn't convinced I wanted to race my car in the rain. There was some blue sky starting to show to the West so I went along with it. I ended up going out on the road course 4th in line. I was trying to be last in our group but I hosed myself. As you will see in the photos, they had a sign that said Lake. I have to assume that was due to the lake we had to voyage through on the road course. :lol: Driving a 666hp car on a wet race track was a challenge. I had a blast but new it was a handicap for us in the first group. Clearly I had to drive slower and had less grip than I'd have liked. The afternoon groups had a dry track. The main thing I wanted to accomplish was learning the track. I ran a 1:12.xx which was 10 seconds off the winners pace on Sunday. Not bad for being in the rain.

Saturday night Doug put on a party with the famous taco cart and Elvis juice. The house was packed full of liars. I'm pretty sure I was the only sober person in the joint. Quite a roll reversal for me. :unibrow: I hit the sack earlier than most in anticipation for a dry and sunny Sunday. The weather cooperated and it was a beautiful race day. They let us practice in the morning and timed us in the afternoon. I ended up tuning on my rear shocks to loosen up the car. Unfortunately I didn't get a decent charge in my go pro and have no footage to share. :rolleyes:

Road Race: In the morning practice, the car was tight.(Pushing) I decided to set it up similar to how I had found it balanced in the autocross. The road race portion is my favorite event. The car could've been looser but it was good. I felt that I had put in 3 good laps. Atleast the best the car and I was capable of that day. I ended up hitting 110mph on the front straight.(Rev limiter in 3rd gear) Rupp said Pozzi hit 111 in Penny so I was cooking. I ran 6th out of 70 or 80 car between the two days. Pretty proud of that result.

Autocross: I didn't get in the top 10 so I'm not sure how I stacked up. I ended up with a best of 39.9. To get in the top 10 you had to be in the high 38's. I really don't think I coud've gone much faster with 100 more attempts. It was a small tight course but I had a blast after I learned the course. I really think the car needs some work to compete with the likes of Finch and Mary Pozzi. I know I do as well.

Speed Stop: I really like this event. I was still running after most in my group had quit. My car still doesn't get out of the hole worth a damn. 1st gear makes it to easy for excessive tire spin. My car pulls like a freight train in 2nd and 3rd. I was chirping in all 3 gears. I just can't find the traction out of the hole. I think it may be due to the really deep 1st gear in the tko 600 or shocks. I didn't get in the top 10 mainly due to my launch. I ran the fastest time last year at the event with my R888's beating DSE, Finch, so I'm still not happy with my performance. I think the lack of launch and slightly less grip under braking put me outside the top 10.

I'll post my finishing spot once the results are posted. Everybody has stepped up their games significantly in the past year. What a blast we all had. Thank to all that made it happen. :thumbsup:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2015.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2030.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2029.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2028.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2026.jpg

[Vegas69]

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2063.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2044.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2039.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2034.jpg

[Vegas69]

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2134.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2127.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2113.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2104.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2103.jpg

[Vegas69]

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2234.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2196.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2191.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2182.jpg

[coolwelder62]

Look's like a bumper mounted weed eater would have been helpful out on the autocross.:lol: :lol: Good job Todd.:thumbsup: Scott

[Vegas69]

This is my first event with my new coil springs. The car was definitely better. :thumbsup: After reviewing the photos and the feel of the car, I know the car needs some work yet. That is good news since I clearly didn't win the title. :D The car still has to much body roll and the brake pad knockback is still slowing me down. I talked to Kyle Tucker at DSE about my front shocks. I have them 1 click from full hard and the car still rides really nice up front. He has offered to dyno my shocks for free and replace them if they are faulty. He said the car should be really stiff with that setting and they aren't. I'm going to take him up on it. :thumbsup: to DSE for nothing but pure professionalism. I'm going to start with the shock dyno and then add a smaller rear bar if that doesn't solve my body roll. I'm not sure where I had my rear shock settings in the photos so that is the only variable.

The car is going to get a floater eventually. While the brakes are there without a pump, they are a little spongy. It's the worst in autocross. I think the axle bearings are wearing and loosening up. I think the fronts are doing more work than they should be. Unfortunately, this will likely require rehooping my rear wheels for less back space to make room for the floating end.

Here are the photos that have me convinced my chassis still needs work:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2214.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2201.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc2198.jpg

Here

[KPC67]

Great pictures Todd, all three cars look great beside eachother.
I like the pic of Dave's car in your mirror, with the cop in his:unibrow:

[KPC67]

oops. just took another look and see thats not Daves car.
still a cool pic none the less

[CrossRamRich]

A workhorse no less!:rofl: :cheers:

[bigtyme1]

Looks like you had a blast Todd. someday I'll have a hard top:cheers:

[awr68]

Great update Todd! Love all the pics and info as always! Good to hear that over all you did well and are basically happy with the results! :thumbsup:

[tones2SS]

Awesome update Todd. Great car indeed. A real track warrior. Looks like a great time.:thumbsup:

[89 RS]

Great write-up Todd, thanks for sharing your experience. Sounds like you guys had a good time even though the weather wasn't the best it could be.

[waynieZ]

Great pictures, looks like you needed a squeegee instead of a spoiler on the front.

[6D9]

Great pics! Glad to see the car ran hard and you guys had a good time. Hope to meet up with you guys one of these days....:yes:

[Bow Tie 67]

Todd it was nice to meet in person. The body roll looks bad, but honestly I watched closely and DSE's cars, Rupps and Finch all had roll going into the 180 on the autocross. ( at least the rear of the cars ) I have talked with Brian and he is running 450 lb springs up front. Personally I like the way stiffer springs feel and handle. I'm not to good at auto-cross and think seat time and shock adjustments will help. Does your front sway bar have adjustment? I run mine stiff as well as the rear. Your car looked great and you were pushing it hard.
:thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

Thanks guys!

My front bar isn't adjustable but I can buy a larger splined bar. I've changed it once already. My first step is sending the shocks in for the dyno time. I had the car 1 click from full stiff and it still road as good as any factory car I've ever drove. I have a feeling they need some work. If they don't, I may order a hollow sway bar or smaller diameter bar for the rear. I had to throw a bunch of compression in the rear shocks to make the car loose enough to get around the auto cross and road race. Car actually felt good except in the slow speed autocross corners and tight road course section at the end. The main thing is, I'm sneaking back up on my car. The R888's simply covered up a lack of chassis tuning. I really feel the car is faster in autocross and the road race now with street tires. That is the beauty of street tread, you are forced to make your car better instead of relying on rubber. This being my first event with the new springs, I'm happy with the results. There is no doubt my performance was better than the Optima Challenge.

[GregWeld]

It would be fun to have some of the top guys drive these cars around the X and the RC and see what kind of times they can do with the car "as is"... and then give the owner a "well... it's a bit this or that" kind of report. That way an owner would have a base time the car is capable of and can shoot for that. Most of this --- and I saw it all day long --- is seat time. As the guys learned the course the times started to fall -- same car -- same driver... and not much "tuning"... except the driver was getting tuned up. :rofl:

Look what Nathan did with Bad Penny.... That now tells Steve, or anyone else in the seat, what the car can do.

[Vegas69]

I've thought of that but would really like to drive a top car through the autocross sometime as well. Blake and I were going to swap cars but it didn't happen. I was burn't and not crazy about sailing their car through those cones at 100mph. :unibrow:

[chr2002ca]

Your car was blazing out there as usual Todd. Thanks for continuing to properly represent the carbureted big-block crew. :thumbsup: It was great hanging out with you and Kelly at the track and at Doug's party. Hopefully we can do it again shortly. I only had 1 beer so I wasn't too far behind you and the tea brigade. As long as I don't catch you eating hummus and reading a romance novel. :lol:

I did get some video of one of your AutoX runs on Saturday afternoon(along with Doug, Dave, and few others) and I'll be posting those shortly.

[Flash68]

Great pics Todd/Kelli. I like the road course splash pics best. :D

Still lots of improvement left that in that car as you work toward closing the gap to the heavy hitters. Congrats on the great road course showing buddy! :thumbsup:

[Ron in SoCal]

It would be fun to have some of the top guys drive these cars around the X and the RC and see what kind of times they can do with the car "as is"... and then give the owner a "well... it's a bit this or that" kind of report. That way an owner would have a base time the car is capable of and can shoot for that. Most of this --- and I saw it all day long --- is seat time. As the guys learned the course the times started to fall -- same car -- same driver... and not much "tuning"... except the driver was getting tuned up. :rofl:

Look what Nathan did with Bad Penny.... That now tells Steve, or anyone else in the seat, what the car can do.

That's a great suggestion Greg. I'd add, we now have RTTC type events/road course classes/SCCA AutoX at our disposal, what's missing is an opportunity to tune our chasis with the experts. You know, a day w the Pozzis or Doug @ GW who really know these car's have the tools on-site and potentially replacement parts to try out and compare. That is one exercise I'd show up for...(assuming my bucket was running)

Oh yeah, Todd you were smoikin' out there! Good to see you again Bro...

[Sieg]

Unfortunately I didn't get a decent charge in my go pro and have no footage to share. :rolleyes:

New from GoPro: http://gopro.com/gopro-releases-the-battery-bacpac-removable-long-runtime-battery-and-charger-module-for-1080p-hd-hero-camera/

[Flash68]

New from GoPro: http://gopro.com/gopro-releases-the-battery-bacpac-removable-long-runtime-battery-and-charger-module-for-1080p-hd-hero-camera/

That looks to be a great add-on. I didn't record some autoX runs and any of the Speed Stops because I wanted to guarantee I saved enough space for my final Road Course run. This would solve that.

[Vegas69]

That battery pack won't help a moron that forgets to charge his battery. :unibrow:

[Sieg]

That battery pack won't help a moron that forgets to charge his battery. :unibrow:
Dunno, you'd have to forget twice. :D

[bigtyme1]

Todd, I sent the shocks out this week for the rebuild. Are you using anykind of bump stop on the rear?

[Vegas69]

Just the internal stops in the shocks. I was thinking about the shock plates. Since I moved my shocks inboard, I"ve installed a .25 spacer on my rear wheels. It makes me wonder if there is enough clearance now to run it in the original location.

[bigtyme1]

Just the internal stops in the shocks. I was thinking about the shock plates. Since I moved my shocks inboard, I"ve installed a .25 spacer on my rear wheels. It makes me wonder if there is enough clearance now to run it in the original location.

I did the same thing last year and .25 was still close for your racing, I went to a .50 but I kept the plates on. I'll try it this week and see how close it is and let you know. Post up the dimentions of the plates again both versions. I'm going to get them made and sent out to be hardened. Or maybe Titanium.

[monza]

Hey Todd
Curious how your 'sub' belt worked going over the seat instead of through the seat?
thanks

[Vegas69]

I don't know, I haven't installed the race belts yet. I ran out of time before El Toro. :willy:

[Vegas69]

After about 4 hours of elbow grease, I finally have most of the rain washed off this baby top and bottom. :D It was worth it! I've got my first SCCA race coming up next Sunday. Rumor has it that we have been bumped from our normal lot to the best lot at Las Vegas motor speedway. The SCCA guys said they have only had the priviledge to run there once in 10 years. High speed and 70-80 second runs. :thumbsup: I can't wait!

These cars are definitely high maintenence when you use them at their limit. Of course having an all aluminum solid roller big block doesn't help. :unibrow: I haven't changed the oil since September so that was first. I always cut the filter open to anticipate any problems. Everything looked fine. It takes approx 12 qts between the engine and accumulator. I checked all the valves cold. Spec is .006 cold at .016 hot. Found only a few that were out of spec. One at .007, two at .008, and the loosest at .010. I pulled the distributor to check the gear. It needs replaced. The engine has 2500 miles or so and around 8 events so it was due for an inspection. Glad the oil filter bypass is blocked and I run a magnetic drain plug. I have another melonized gear on the way. Looks like I'll be replacing it every 2500 miles.(Every year)
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/064.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/040.jpg

After reflecting on the road race Sunday afternoon, I realized that my brakes felt spongy. Once I got the car home and pulled it off the trailer, they indeed felt really spongy pulling it into the garage. After a brake fluid inspection. The front resorvoir fluid is thrashed. The front rotors have been pretty hot. I'm going to lean towards overheating at this point with moisture a close 2nd. Anyway, I picked up a power bleeder at harbor freight for $25. I flushed the rears and fronts with genuine GM brake fluid. I'm going to give it a shot. It took two pints to clean up the front! I suspect my back to back to back to back to back runs on the 0-90-0 event are to blame here.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/062.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/021-1.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/068.jpg

[Vegas69]

For those of you that have been following along, I made new rear shock brackets to give me an additional .5" of compression travel. I found that the car was bottoming out the rear shocks big time after the Optimat Street Car Invitational.(Since day one really) I raised the spring rate 100lbs as well. I took the car on 2 desert hail marys and ran the El Toro event. The RR always compresses about 3/16" more that the LR. Upon inspection, I have a good 1/4" of travel left. :thumbsup:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/033-1.jpg

I took the race belts to RTTC but was to busy and lazy to install them before the event. I finally got around to installing them last night. I opted for a set of Simpson old school harnesses. They are reasonably priced and this set up worked out perfect. Kelli cought me simulating putting a beat down on Carl, Gordon, or Rupp. :lol:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/019-1.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/057.jpg

My last project for the day was to frame a piece of art my Dad sent me out of the blue. I was going to make it garage art but like it so much that it ended up in my game room.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/012-3.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/008-4.jpg

[Vegas69]

I still need to pull the front shocks and send them to DSE for a dyno session. I just ran out of time. After RTTC is was left feeling the front end was still soft. I have the compression cranked 23 of 24 and it still rides beautifully. Anyway, when I got to RTTC I had changed all the springs and you really don't know what you have until you go 100%. I started out with a tight chassis. (Front pushing) On the autocross I kept tuning in more and more compression and rebound. I ended up with 11 of 16 clicks to get the car to loosen up and rotate better. The problem is, the car gets pretty rigid back there with those shock settings. It felt pretty good in the autocross but was still to tight in my Sunday run on the road course. From what I've read, you don't want to adjust shocks to the extreme to balance out your chassis. When I switched from R888's to BFG's last year, the car went from good to ice skating. I had to take the rear bar off the car to get it to handle. Now that I've changed all the spring rates, I feel it may need a bar back on the rear to balance it out. I ordered a weaker rear bar from Helwig and will put it on for the event next Sunday. My hope is to get the rear shocks in a more compliant setting and raise the spring rate with the weaker sway bar. If I'm close, I'll play with tire pressure and mild shock settings to dial it in. If the front shocks are found to be weak, new shocks will only tighten up the chassis. I may be pulling the new rear bar on the lunch break. :D

The bottom line is I have the car back to where I feel it's a little faster than it was on R888's. The barometer is really my memory of how the car felt and running within .9 of David Pozzi in Bad Penny on the road course at RTTC.

Soon I'll be switching to a full floater out back or a floating caliper. Likely this Summer after a few events.

[Sieg]

Obviously you're using the brakes proper. :thumbsup:

Since you're toasting distributor gears and a little under-powered could you run a Mallory crank-triggered ignition and front drive distributor to eliminate the gear wear and potential failure issue? :D

[Vegas69]

Sure, what the hell. I've got all kinds of room up front with my serpentine setup. I'd love to rewire my whole ignition system as well. :D Distributor gear wear is a fact of life with a high volume pump and anything but a cast iron distributor gear. As with many things in life, it's a compromise between a few different variables.

Underpowered compared to very few.

[Sieg]

So oil viscosity creates the rapid gear wear?


http://www.silkoleneusa.com/images_temp/f3c68dba-07cf-4abc-ab2a-ed8f6b4e236c3578E0-320-0.JPEG

•0W-20 is an advanced racing engine oil based on new concepts in oil formulation

•This unique low viscosity synthetic cuts oil drag yet maintains a tough low-wear flim on highly stressed components

•Using the unique Electrosyntec technology 0W-20 engine oil provides both extra power and long term performance retention

•Developed and tested at the highest level by Factory Moto GP teams


Probably a little more money than switching out the gear every season, but the reduced drag would certainly give you a few more needed ponies in your underpowered hotrod. :D

[Vegas69]

That would net me about no oil pressure. :unibrow: This ain't no cbr1000 or factory tolerance engine.

[ccracin]

Todd,

It is refreshing to see you doing the type of prep and maintenance to the car that should be done before events. So many don't think that autocrossing is "racing". It very much is and should be prepared for as such. :cheers:

On a side note, I am heading to Vegas next week for a trade show. I am flying in Wed. morning and flying out Sat. morning. I would love to hook up and see the car. I'm not a gambler so I would much rather bench race! Let me know what yah think. :lateral:

[Vegas69]

Chad, the road racing and 0-xxx-0 events are the hardest on the equipment. Autocross is so short with lots of rest in between runs.

Sure, I'll likely be stabbing the distributor, adjusting a few valves, and adding the sway bar a couple nights this week. I'll PM you my number.

[cdushane]

Car is looking really good buddy, hopefully someday I'll have a tenth of the knowledge you have with these cars :thumbsup: Thanks for keeping us up on all the things that work and don't work, it's a lot of reading but your posts and detailed pics of everything are a huge help!!! :cheers:

[waynieZ]

Car is looking really good buddy, hopefully someday I'll have a tenth of the knowledge you have with these cars :thumbsup: Thanks for keeping us up on all the things that work and don't work, it's a lot of reading but your posts and detailed pics of everything are a huge help!!! :cheers:

I'm with you Chris, I love reading his posts. I rarely post here because I don't know enough to contribute, But I love the lessons I learn.:thumbsup:

[Flash68]

That print your pops sent you is sweet. I gotta whip you in pool next time I come by. :unibrow:

Harnesses look good. I kinda like the old school style also vs the cam lock.

I'm sure what Kelli caught you simulating there.... trying to recover from a spinout? :lol:

[tones2SS]

Todd, that car is awesome. Such a bad ass machine. You've done a great job on working on it and tweaking it just to your specs.
Good luck.:thumbsup:

[CrossRamRich]

Is that a smile?:_paranoid :willy: :wow:

[Vegas69]

I may have had a frosty beverage or 3 before that episode.:unibrow:

[awr68]

I may have had a frosty beverage or 3 before that episode.:unibrow:

Off the wagon already?

[Flash68]

Off the wagon already?

One weekend with Rich and I and 37 Bud Lights around oughta do it. :lol:

[Vegas69]

Off the wagon already?

6X days of pure hell. :lol:

[awr68]

6X days of pure hell. :lol:

:lol: too funny! I had a BL for ya tonight as I packed the cooler for the weekend camping trip! :cheers:

[CrossRamRich]

Badstinkyfinger is ready for some roadcourse, Fernly or Buttonwillow? :cheers:

[Vegas69]

I've got 4 local events between now and May 22nd. That should keep me happy until Summer. How did you break my Jack?:D

[Vegas69]

Well, my hopes of a super fast autocross was trumped by getting my ass handed to me by every Miata West of the Mississippi. :rolleyes: They thought they had set up a fast course but it just didn't work out that way. It was slick asphalt and from what I can figure, it is the drag strip burn out dust. Even the guys with A6's and go karts said it was greasy.

Needless to say, my whole new rear sway bar deal didn't work out. Felt phenomenal on the street but was just to damn loose on this slow, slick track. So I took my shocks down to 0 and let air out of the rear tires in the morning and still couldn't get it planted. Lunch time was spent pulling the rear bar and going back to my El Toro settings. I only had 3 shots at it in the afternoon and ended up having to cut my shock setting in half from El Toro to start getting a real handle on the deal. I still think the bar would work on the road course, especially concrete. The positive side is it was a gorgeous day for a cruise and I found my settings for a slick slow asphalt track. :thumbsup:

I'm considering ditching these street tires and going back to R888's. I'd be forced to run exibition at the pro touring events but I run local SCCA events on a more frequent basis. That still allows me to drive the car to the race track and compete with all these SCCA guys on A6's and such. I can also still drive in the rain, etc...

After doing fairly well at El Toro, this was a real slap in the sack. I know this isn't an ideal autocross car, but that was **##**# embarrasing. Maybe I'm just losing that loving feeling...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kIxP9X5sEk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NumzISInve0

[Track Junky]

I hate spending money on tire's.........wait, let me rephrase, I cant afford to spend money on tires. On the R888's I'm finding that they are getting hard before the treads gone so I'm thinking they heat cycle out fairly early. RA-1's are awesome shaved but unfortunately they dont make anything bigger than a 275 IIRC.

All The NASA guys I run with use A6's. They warm up quick on the road course but they also get greasy quick but they dont seem to mind. They say by the time they fall off they have already laid down some fast times. This would be Time Trials, not racing.

I'd love to pick up some 200 tread wear tires and hang with you guys but I just cant afford to buy 2 sets of tires.

I'm going to try the R888's one more time this year and if They truly are gone I'm pulling the trigger on some A6's.

[Vegas69]

If you hate buying tires, don't go to A6's. :D I've talked to a couple people that have shredded them in ONE day Autocrossing on concrete. Why not an R6?

[CrossRamRich]

How did you break my Jack?:D[/QUOTE]

Is it all "Jacked up"? Wasn't that the "Jack Hoff 9000"?:_paranoid

[Track Junky]

I asked those guys the same question. They said the A6's were faster. These guys have been running them for years and I never bought them because of the expense. With the economy the way it is it may be a long time before I have the opportunity to do this so its either now or maybe never.

My second choice would be shaved RA-1's but word out on track is that the A6's are 3 seconds a lap quicker. 3 seconds is huge. RA-1's are kick ass when they are slicks. The only time I ever got a first place was when my RA-1's were slicks.

[Flash68]

Damn dude... didn't even get to stretch your legs it looked like. So much for a nice fast course... bummer.

I always appreciate a nice power slide though. :unibrow:

[Vegas69]

That was the highlight of the day for sure. The camera doesn't do the power slide or save at the finish justice. Had about 10-15 clapping at the end. Next autocross is at Nellis Air Force base on concrete. Hope to let the pony's loose. :D

[Payton King]

Saw your smiling face on the Optima Challenge I re-watched last night.

Go over to www.corvetteforum.com go to "general corvette" and then to "auto cross and road race" section. You can find scubs and low heat cycle A6's and R888 cheap...maybe $75-$100 a tire. they come up pretty often in 18 inch sizes. You should be able to find the guy that deals in them and talk directly to him.

From what I have read over there you will need to run a lot of camber to keep from cording the edges of the A6 and R6. A-is for auto cross and soft compound and R is for the big track. Takes heat better but harder. Just like stated above most run the A6 for qualifying or time trial runs.

[Sieg]

That was the highlight of the day for sure. The camera doesn't do the power slide or save at the finish justice. Had about 10-15 clapping at the end. Next autocross is at Nellis Air Force base on concrete. Hope to let the pony's loose. :DMight try running another one facing rearward. It's only time and money. :D

[BBC69Camaro]

Love the videos Todd, makes me jealous, such a great motivator to keep me plodding along on my car :hail:

Just curious what you use to take the video?

[Vegas69]

Ugly sob, huh Payton? :unibrow: I've still got my old set of R888's in the garage. They have been rode hard and put away wet but they would still work on the track only.(Fronts are a little flat spotted and the rears fell victim to my right foot) Thanks for the heads up.. I'm going to shread these tires 1st. I may have to speed up their life expectancy. :unibrow:

Ed, I have the Go Pro HD Hero. Only have two gripes. You better put a full charge in it before every outing and the videos don't play back on either of my computers. They must be formatted through youtube before the video and sound play correctly. My advice to you is to keep it fun and take your time. I've enjoyed the journey and all the great experiences. You can push to hard and it becomes more like work. I've done this to myself a few to many times. I'm constantly talking myself out of this or that nowadays! I need a leash. :lol:

[Vegas69]

Forgot to post the action shot last night..
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/IMG_0236-2.jpg

[Flash68]

Ed, I have the Go Pro HD Hero. Only have two gripes. You better put a full charge in it before every outing and the videos don't play back on either of my computers. They must be formatted through youtube before the video and sound play correctly.

Can't help ya on the full charge thing. :lol:

But have you tried editing the vid with a "3rd party" program before uploading to youtube? GoPro recommends this program that I use and it works great for me. I noticed you could've cut off the dead time before and after the action, and this program makes is super easy to do.

http://www.squared5.com/

[tones2SS]

Damn dude... didn't even get to stretch your legs it looked like. So much for a nice fast course... bummer.

I always appreciate a nice power slide though. :unibrow:

I was thinking the same thing Dave.
Car sounds killer Todd. Good luck with the tires bud.:cheers:

[Track Junky]

In the first vid it sounded like there was a 50cc motorcycle reving its engine behind you. The 2nd vid showed how 200 tread wear tires really dont do our cars justice. Always fun watching someone slide around though.

[Vegas69]

We always have 2-3 shifter carts show up. Talk about bang for the buck. I'm done running SCCA autocrosses on 320 treadwears. I just haven't figured out my direction just yet. :D

[Sieg]

What's the word on the street about the Nitto NT05's?

[Vegas69]

What's the word on the street about the Nitto NT05's?

The word is they don't fit my rims and I'm not interested in street tires no mo.:D

[Ron in SoCal]

The corvette guys I spoke to running NT05s seem to love them for a 200 treadwear, but for us guys running 18" rears they are non-existent last time I checked...

[Track Junky]

The easiest solution is two sets of rims and tires. As far as tire choices for you, I'd say NT01's for the SCCA autocross events and I cant remember if the 200 tread wear Nitto's were 05's or 555's but one of those for the PT events.

Yeah I know, not cheap, but if you spend it now it will save you some frustration later.

[Track Junky]

The corvette guys I spoke to running NT05s seem to love them for a 200 treadwear, but for us guys running 18" rears they are non-existent last time I checked...

No 05's for 18" rims? Thats surprising. You sure?

[Vegas69]

I have a few thoughts right now.

Option #1
Mount up my R888's on my current rims and do it all like I orginally intended when I bought these wheels. By all I mean, autocross, road race, and street. Also being able to drive to the track. Run exibition if I must and be able to do it all reasonably well. Clearly the most economical since I have the wheels and tires already. :D

Option #2
Buy another set of rims 18" rims (Likely my street rims) and mount my current KDW's. Then mount my R888's on my current rims OR put a set of A6's on them and trailer to the track. My only hold back here is the difference between R888's and street tread isn't HUGE.

Option #3
Go to a Vintage Wheel Works 17" wheel for race. 17x11 and 17x9.5. Then I can run Kuhmo V700's, R888's, or A6's easily. They are inexpensive and you can get custom backspacing. I can buy rims and tires for just North of $2k.

Since the upcoming Super Chevy show is 100 treads. I'll likely start with option 1 and take it from there. I'd like to stay with the same widths so my alignment doesn't change between wheels.

Option #4 (Shameless) If any of our site sponsors would like to throw a set of wheels my way. I'm sure my 210,000 view thread, event performances, and general post whoring duties could benefit your business multiple times over the cost of the wheels.

[Sieg]

The corvette guys I spoke to running NT05s seem to love them for a 200 treadwear, but for us guys running 18" rears they are non-existent last time I checked...I just put 18's on my car, but the largest 18 is 295/35's, they also have up to 335/19's and 315/20's. The NT-01R's are their DOT roadrace tire. No experience with my 05's as it's still raining and snowing in my neighborhood.

http://www.nittotire.com/index.html

[Sieg]

Todd - Face it your car and you need all out slicks so you can explore the limits. Screw the class rules. :D

Or you need a support vehicle and umbrella girls. :unibrow:

[Vegas69]

You really ain't much help...:unibrow: :rofl:

[Track Junky]

Option #3
Go to a Vintage Wheel Works 17" wheel for race. 17x11 and 17x9.5. Then I can run Kuhmo V700's, R888's, or A6's easily. They are inexpensive and you can get custom backspacing. I can buy rims and tires for just North of $2k.

Since the upcoming Super Chevy show is 100 treads. I'll likely start with option 1 and take it from there. I'd like to stay with the same widths so my alignment doesn't change between wheels.

Now your talkin'!! I was thinking about those wheels also. Cant beat it for the price. The only thing holding me back is the weight of the wheels, 25 lbs. Probably not too bad for the autocross gig but maybe a bit heavy for road race. The wheels I've got my eye on are $1300 a pop. Their 18x10.5's are 18 lbs. Gibson Wheels makes them. I'll make a decision depending on what I sell that other '69 I picked up for. Reality is my pocket book makes the decisions when it comes to my car.

[Sieg]

You really ain't much help...:unibrow: :rofl:
Hey! It's not my fault your car large appendages. :cool:

[Vegas69]

Now your talkin'!! I was thinking about those wheels also. Cant beat it for the price. The only thing holding me back is the weight of the wheels, 25 lbs. Probably not too bad for the autocross gig but maybe a bit heavy for road race. The wheels I've got my eye on are $1300 a pop. Their 18x10.5's are 18 lbs. Gibson Wheels makes them. I'll make a decision depending on what I sell that other '69 I picked up for. Reality is my pocket book makes the decisions when it comes to my car.

Wow, those babies are trick. To rich for my blood to save 7lbs. :unibrow: The only obstacle with the Vintage Wheel Works is if they clear C6 brakes. I am liking the Kuhmo V700 option. The tires are cheap and 50 treadwears they claim you can run autocross/roadrace.

[Track Junky]

Wow, those babies are trick. To rich for my blood to save 7lbs. :unibrow: The only obstacle with the Vintage Wheel Works is if they clear C6 brakes. I am liking the Kuhmo V700 option. The tires are cheap and 50 treadwears they claim you can run autocross/roadrace.

Yeah, rich boy wheels and on the wish list.

A6's are getting better reviews at tirerack.com. People claiming the V700's are chunking. For the guys that aren't complaining, yes they are fast but I'm afraid of them coming apart on me.

Preventitive measure ------- if you do get A6's or V700's be sure to put all fours on jack stands after a road race run. My theory on these tires chunking is because they are very soft and when parked after being super heated they cool off with a flat spot. Just a theory but a preventative measure I plan on practicing.

[Ron in SoCal]

No 05's for 18" rims? Thats surprising. You sure?

Last I checked --

http://www.nittotire.com/functions/tire_popup.asp?tire=nt05

[Payton King]

Picked up a set of HRE's in 18x9.5 and 19x12.5. Really wanted to run the R888, but they do not make a 335 in a 19. I did end up with the NT05's because they do make 335 in a 19. Have not got my car back together, but I can tell you from the "finger nail" test they are pretty soft. Will know more in a month.

2 sets of rims are really the way to go, I would like to have a set of CCW C14's with a set of A6's for track days.

I am with you though, not real concerned not getting to compete in some of the events from a prize standpoint just as long as I get to run. Would much rather have a set of sticky tires.

[Track Junky]

The NT05 is a drag radial? Thats how Nitto's web site characterises it. How many of you guys have been using these for autocross and road course?

[JustinB]

The NT05 is not a drag radial. It has a 200 tread-wear. The NTO5R is a drag radial. We have set up tons of guys with NT05's with great feedback.

[Track Junky]

Ah yes, found it under "street tires". Thanks Justin. Anybody have reviews on the NT01's?

[Vegas69]

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Forgelines007.jpg
Decision has been made for now. R888's are going back on the car. I should say my old rears are going back on and I've ordered a set of shaved fronts in a slightly wider width than before. :unibrow: My old rears just happen to be shaved depth. When I originally went down this road it was for a few different reasons.

1. I can still pro tour on these tires with reasonable life expectancy. Clearly my shaved tires will only give me half the life expecancy. If I can get 6 months to a year out of them, I'm OK with that. Unshaved will go 10k.
2. I can autocross and road race on the same set. Not the BEST autocross tire, but they are somewhere between a street tire and an A6.
3. I can still drive to the track. Trailering to the local track is going to be a buzz kill. I enjoy the early Sunday morning drive and evening cruise through the Lake almost as much as the racing. Throw it in overdrive and relax, give it hell, and throw it in overdrive and relax.

At this point, I've chased the neon rainbow with my street tires. I was lucky enough to run the Optima Street Car Invitational. The BFG's will still be laying around if I decide I want to fight for a spot. The reality will likely be me running exibition from here on out. Can I beat DSE and Finch at this point? NO My car is to fat and I'm not a good enough driver. I'm man enough to admit it. :unibrow: I've got a 666hp missile here that needs all the grip I can get. Especially competing againsty these SCCA guys! So, in normal PT style, I'm going to ride the fence. My tire of choice is going to be something that can do it all. Maybe it's not ideal, but it will do it all reasonably.

[Track Junky]

Definitely the best practical choice. I'm going to have to pick up the A6's only because after this season the car is most likely going back up on the shelf. I have a detatched garage that needs to get built and spending money on my car hasn't helped me move forward on that project.

[Vegas69]

I agree, my plate is full already. This is the most economical decision for ALL venues. :cheers: Plus, it gives me a chance in hell of running with you on the road course.

[Track Junky]

Well if I dont see you out at Buttonwillow this season maybe will cross paths in 2013. Unless I hit the lotto before then. :cheers: Cheers!!

[Ron in SoCal]

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Forgelines007.jpg
Decision has been made for now. R888's are going back on the car. I should say my old rears are going back on and I've ordered a set of shaved fronts in a slightly wider width than before. :unibrow: My old rears just happen to be shaved depth. When I originally went down this road it was for a few different reasons.

1. I can still pro tour on these tires with reasonable life expectancy. Clearly my shaved tires will only give me half the life expecancy. If I can get 6 months to a year out of them, I'm OK with that. Unshaved will go 10k.
2. I can autocross and road race on the same set. Not the BEST autocross tire, but they are somewhere between a street tire and an A6.
3. I can still drive to the track. Trailering to the local track is going to be a buzz kill. I enjoy the early Sunday morning drive and evening cruise through the Lake almost as much as the racing. Throw it in overdrive and relax, give it hell, and throw it in overdrive and relax.

At this point, I've chased the neon rainbow with my street tires. I was lucky enough to run the Optima Street Car Invitational. The BFG's will still be laying around if I decide I want to fight for a spot. The reality will likely be me running exibition from here on out. Can I beat DSE and Finch at this point? NO My car is to fat and I'm not a good enough driver. I'm man enough to admit it. :unibrow: I've got a 666hp missile here that needs all the grip I can get. Especially competing againsty these SCCA guys! So, in normal PT style, I'm going to ride the fence. My tire of choice is going to be something that can do it all. Maybe it's not ideal, but it will do it all reasonably.

I gotta agree w everything you said above, Todd. Who says you're not a PT addict if you're not running 200 treadwear? Not me. Now I'm not knocking anyone who does, nor the 'rule' at these events, but I made the decision long ago that a little stickier tire was a good thing. You and I and anyone else can still run at these events and hang out w the crowd, and they can fight over the $5 trophy. The R888s might be a problem in the under 140 TW class though...

Maybe we'll start our own class! :thumbsup:

[awr68]

I love the look of the R888! IIRC, You loved this tire before, right? :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

Love would be a strong term, but I certainly liked them better than anything else on the car. The biggest difference is the rear side bite. The only bad thing is I get to go back to the drawing board on set up. I have notes from when I had them on before, the problem is I have changed out the springs. :D

[Bow Tie 67]

How much are PS2's compared to the R888? I have been told they are a much better tire than the KDW's. BFG also mentioned they are coming out with a new KDW that is better, I just dont know when they will be released.

I " love " my R888's and will be running PS 2's this summer, so I will know first hand in 4 to 6 weeks. Man these winters are @$#%# long.

[Vegas69]

Hey Matt, the PS2 is big money compared to both. I've got the rear R888's already and bought a pair of shaved fronts cheap. I'll be interested to know what you think. I know the PS2 is faster than the KDW. It's twice the money. :D

[Vegas69]

It's been a long fun road but it's time to say good bye. My car is SOLD. I was contacted by an individual from Saudi Arabia and I just can't pass up the offer. I'm not sure what I'll build next. Thanks for all the support guys. :cheers:

[Flash68]

It's been a long fun road but it's time to say good bye. My car is SOLD. I was contacted by an individual from Saudi Arabia and I just can't pass up the offer. I'm not sure what I'll build next. Thanks for all the support guys. :cheers:

You f*ckface! Okay, what's the price, or ballpark? And what's next? It's a sad day in the pro touring world my friend.....

[frojoe]

Hmm this smells of the 1st of April...

[frojoe]

Holy crap, I already got a PM from him saying this is the real deal... I guess it is a sad day, not gonna lie, this was my favourite Camaro on the site, it makes up a ton of the pics on my rotating desktop background. Good luck on the next one!!!! :cheers:

[Vegas69]

Thanks guys...:cheers: I've got some ideas floating around. Stielow is on 10 or 11 so I hope to follow in his footsteps. I've learned so much building Payback. She's going to a good home.

[JKnight]

Yeah. I'm calling it. BS!

[CrossRamRich]

One less competitor to deal with this year. Get some of that oil money back to the USA!:unibrow:

[bigtyme1]

The car pretty much sucked anyway, the driver is a close second!

[cdushane]

April fools is now over..........:_paranoid

[Vegas69]

At least I got Ron.....:rofl:

[Track Junky]

LMAO...:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: dude, you are too funny. And to think a few of you fell for it :D

[BBC69Camaro]

At first I was shocked then noticed the date on the post :lol:

[Ron in SoCal]

At least I got Ron.....:rofl:

Yeah you did! Long day, a couple of 'frosties' and I was 1/2 way through your next build sheet...:lol:

[coolwelder62]

:lol: It's been a long fun road but it's time to say good bye. My car is SOLD. I was contacted by an individual from Saudi Arabia and I just can't pass up the offer. I'm not sure what I'll build next. Thanks for all the support guys. :cheers:I was told he got 2 camel's and a herad of goat's staight up trade.

[GregWeld]

:lol: I was told he got 2 camel's and a herad of goat's staight up trade.

Then he paid too much! POS will have to be completely rebuilt with some parts that can handle. Start with some leaf springs and Monroe shocks. 605 steering box... Crate motor from GM... White Vinyl top.... Poverty caps...

[DFRESH]

LOL Todd----I heard about this post in Del Mar several times---word traveled fast brother----people were asking me if it was real---:cheers:

Doug

[GregWeld]

I heard a chick named "Big Wanda" traded him for services to be determined at a future "date".

[Vegas69]

LOL Todd----I heard about this post in Del Mar several times---word traveled fast brother----people were asking me if it was real---:cheers:

Doug

Somedays I'd be happy to hear from the Shiek. :lol:

I'd take the Camel and Servant as a partial trade. I'll take oil stocks for the remaining balance. :unibrow:

[waynieZ]

I'm glad I went back a few pages to confirm or not.

[DFRESH]

I heard a chick named "Big Wanda" traded him for services to be determined at a future "date".

Big Wanda's orientation has yet to be determined--:lol:

[Vegas69]

This thread has gone sideways more than a few times but this takes the cake. :rolleyes:

[camcojb]

This thread has gone sideways more than a few times but this takes the cake. :rolleyes:
yeah, had to edit that one, almost threw up.............. ;)

[Flash68]

Haha keep this thread on the road Todd!! :lol:

Thanks for deleting that Jody... I think I'll have bad dreams tonite still.

[skatinjay27]

This thread has gone sideways more than a few times but this takes the cake. :rolleyes:
hey your the one who's responsible for that...:P

[BBC69Camaro]

Well 600hp and 2 1/8 primaries makes some serious heat. The floors are coated inside and out, and I also have second skin dynapro or whatever they call it. The floor was still getting hot especially in the foot boards and tunnel. I decided to add a second layer of insulation. It's 3/8 inch thick with jute and foil on both sides. The whole floor and tunnel is done. I built up the rear floor pans to be even as they would be from the factory. Since I have the DSE connectors it puts a nice hump in the floor pan for the carpet. I then taped it all with aluminized heat tape.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/IMG_1126.jpg

I am also going to leave the jute on the carpet. Should be nice and cozy now. I already cut the carpet to short.:unibrow: I have a new set here.

Get your car back from the Sheik yet? ;)

Hey Todd, I am trying the same product Heatwave pro that you did awhile back. Wondering if you remember any pitfalls you had with fitment?

How did you cover the trans tunnel? Did you cover the entire tunnel even he part under the console (not sure what kind of console you have if any). I have an auto so I will have a full console trying to figure out what I can fit w/o a ton of fitment issues. Looks like I might have trouble trying to fit carpet and heatwave pro under the console.

Any tips, pics, memories or pitfalls you have to share?


Thanks!

[Vegas69]

It defiintely takes up some real estate. I don't have a console and I'm not sure how they fit. Get a console and trial run it. That would be my reccomendation.

[BBC69Camaro]

It defiintely takes up some real estate. I don't have a console and I'm not sure how they fit. Get a console and trial run it. That would be my reccomendation.

Yep, already started doing that, thanks for the suggestion thou. Definitely looks like I'm going to have to have work around the console. With the dampifier pro down already it doesn't look like the console will fit well with anything more if the carpet is going to still fit under it..

[Vegas69]

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/SuperChevyWin.jpg

[GregWeld]

'bout time!


EEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAA


Winning is ALWAYS fun!

:cheers: :woot:

[waynieZ]

SWEET !!!!!! Congratulation's

[Ron in SoCal]

Congrats Todd! 100 TW baby...:thumbsup:

[Flash68]

Haha one pic says it all - no need for words from our boy. :D

Congrats buddy - now the 200+ treadwear tires are REALLY never coming back. :woot:

[BBC69Camaro]

Nice one Todd :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

This was the first time I've ever had the car have PERFECT balance out of the shoots. I got 27 runs in 2 hours. What a blast. I didn't show up until about 1:30 and had a great dual with the great guys over at TCI. It was nice to take out all those 5th gen camaros and corvettes. :D

Man was it nice to have the R888's back on the car. As you'll see in the video, we were hauling the mail for such a tight venue. :thumbsup: My engine builder would kill me if he heard me bouncing it off the rev limiter this many times.:_paranoid

This is at the very end of the day trying to best my 25.8 by loosening the car up a little. Didn't happen.....

http://youtu.be/5Qb0WMqCvcQ

[Vegas69]

First time in my life that I've drag raced legally. I have to say, it was alot more fun than I expected. I slept in and showed up around 11. :D They still let me run but I was right into the brackets and had no clue where to set my ET. I dialed in a 11.23 and raced a 2006 chevy truck that was 6 seconds off my dial in the first run. After a short nap, I ran a 12.38 with wheel spin in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear. My reaction time was .5xx. 60 ft time was 2.125 :rofl: Remember, never drag raced.

Race two I dialed in at 11.9 and ran a 12.2xx. My reaction was good but I still lost and bought myself back in again. I had massive wheel spin off the line but it hooked good after that.

Run three I dialed in at 12.1 and ran a 11.959. Met my goal at the time of getting into the 11's. (Weld, eat your heart out) 60 ft time was still a miserable 1.906 but I made it up on the top end at 119.39. We did have about a 20mph head wind which I have no clue how much that effects things. With a little more practice, I think she's got a 11.7 in her.

Played around with some calculators for fun:

With a 1.9 second 60 foot time, that normally equates to a 14 second car.

0-60 based on 1/8 mile times was 3.16 seconds which takes out supercars.

Based on my mph, I should be able to run an 11.1 second quarter BUT that would require me to get my 60 foot time down to 1.54 which ain't happening without drag slicks and was softer springs.

Most everybody was impressed after watching it on the Autocross the day before. A win at the Autocross and into the 11's was a great weekend. I'll definitely drag race again. Best part is driving the car to both events and back home. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_b6s7aLsHY
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/DragSlips006.jpg

[tmadden]

Man she's running smooth and strong. simply impressive

[waynieZ]

Todd nice times. Did you adjust the shocks for the drag runs or were they the same as for the autocross? I'm not sure how hard it is to reset them for Xcross.

[Vegas69]

I changed all the settings except the front compression. Car was pulling some G's after it hooked in 1st. :D ProTouring=Do everything well....

[waynieZ]

Sweet !

[GregWeld]

Nice showing Todd!

And.... "into the 11's" is the proper description!

BTW -- Now you see why Frank and JP are going for multiple suspensions in their "fastest whatever the F' it is car".... Road racing is different set up than auto x and is way different than drag racing...

To win at Auto X and run "INTO" the 11's first time out is smokin' good in my book. Drag radials on back - skinnies up front - 90/10 drag shocks for some weight transfer (get that nose proud boy!)... and you might take it into the 10's.

:woot:

[6D9]

Congrats Todd on the win and getting the car to the strip! 11.95 for the first time to the track with drag radials is pretty good man. I am thinking the head wind hurt the MPH a bit. I think your car should trap mid to high 120's with the power it makes. No doubt with more practice she will be going mid to low 11's as it sits. Any vids??

[CrossRamRich]

AWESOME !!!! Great job man!:hail:

[Vegas69]

Thanks guys, there is a video right above the time slips. Apparently, I'm to dense to figure out how to embed videos around here. I thought the MPH was down a litte as well. I've never chassis dynoed this motor so the jetting could be a little off. I did fatten the primary side up for drivability after a got the engine in the car. 1-2 shift is also a little sluggish. I was knocking off .2 every run. With drag slicks, I'm sure mid 11's isn't out of the question. My car is about 3780 with driver. I'll be back....:unibrow:

[6D9]

I think mid 11's as your car sits with just a bit more practice. My 408 I just sold went 11.82 at 115.8 last time out at the the track. I would really like some high 10 second passes once its dialed in. Scott's car(lS7) went 11 something at 124 with 505rwp so you should be similar. Not sure how much his cars tips the scale at??

[Flash68]

Yeah that headwind really had to hurt because you should really be at mid 120s MPH with that power.

[Rybar]

Thanks guys, there is a video right above the time slips. Apparently, I'm to dense to figure out how to embed videos around here.

Nice runs Todd, congrats on the Auto-x win and impressive 1/4 times. Here you go:

5Qb0WMqCvcQ&

D_b6s7aLsHY

Hit the quote button to see how I embedded the vids + there is a video button near the image one when you post

[tones2SS]

Very nice Todd. I bet you hit mid 11's with more time at the track.
Good luck and have fun.:thumbsup:

[BBC71Nova]

Good showing Todd. I bet with some diff tires/wheels and more experience launching that beast you could drop those strip times a good bit. Or you could always through the bottle to it :unibrow: .

[Vegas69]

Good showing Todd. I bet with some diff tires/wheels and more experience launching that beast you could drop those strip times a good bit. Or you could always through the bottle to it :unibrow: .

:unibrow: :D

[skatinjay27]

thats what was thinking put it on the bottle and youll have a easy 10 sec (in to the) lol pro-touring car! o yeah and do somthing about those slow azz shifts!!:P

[CarlC]

Talk about a fun afternoon. You had the AC all to yourself!

[Vegas69]

There were actually some competitors Carl! Just not at 3 PM.:D You're right, I was able to run until my car needed to cool down. The best was earlier when the TCI car and I were running back to back. I had the lead and he ran a 26.1 and my next run was a 25.8. Not sure how I did it since I couldn't get under 26.2 on any of the other 26 runs. Just skill I guess...:lol:

[CarlC]

While everyone else was polishing, holding down their folding chair, or re-arranging their creepy little stuffed children dolls, you were out kickin' a. Very nice. I'm not much into static car shows. I'd rather try to break stuff.

[Matt@BOS]

I guess if you show up to enough events, eventually you'll win something...

Kidding, but that was the best "Todd" comment I could think of.

Congrats! I'm glad you found a setup that you're happy with, and that the car is running well.

Matt

[Flash68]

I guess if you show up to enough events, eventually you'll win something...



:lol: :woot:

[Vegas69]

**** you guys...:cheers:

[Vegas69]

Who says a tight little rodeo can't be fun..

http://www.superchevy.com/multimedia/chevy_videos/index.html#ooid=,VxMGFnMjr2lyNYOTA_0vOssNS16pZQmr

[Spiffav8]

Who says a tight little rodeo can't be fun..

http://www.superchevy.com/multimedia/chevy_videos/index.html#ooid=,VxMGFnMjr2lyNYOTA_0vOssNS16pZQmr

Looks like a good time...though it's nothing compared to the ride you took me on the other night. Hell....I'm still smiling.

Thanks again.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[CrossRamRich]

Warriors, come out to playeeeaaaa! Badmotorfinger comin' to get you!:lol:

[Flash68]

Looks like a good time...though it's nothing compared to the ride you took me on the other night. Hell....I'm still smiling.

Thanks again.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

So you're the one Todd said he took a ride for this weekend...... :cool: :rockin:

Warriors, come out to playeeeaaaa! Badmotorfinger comin' to get you!:lol:

Disclaimer: the opinions expressed above are those of an individual and not necessarily representative of the opinion of the race team as a whole or of its driver...... :D

Or perhaps they are. :drive: :beavis:

[CrossRamRich]

SXmPH2nTcac

Here ya go!!!

[Vegas69]

As the old saying goes "Good Luck". :unibrow: I may have to bring my star crew chief, Anthony Whitesides back. He doesn't drink and takes at least 1 shower per day. He even devised a dipstick provision when the engine was installed. :thumbsup: :rofl:

[Flash68]

As the old saying goes "Good Luck". :unibrow: I may have to bring my star crew chief, Anthony Whitesides back. He doesn't drink and takes at least 1 shower per day. He even devised a dipstick provision when the engine was installed. :thumbsup: :rofl:

Hey if your guy doesn't drink than he probably is unaware of the 5 hp we achieved with the Bud Light in the fuel cell.

Personal hygiene is overrated in the automotive industry anyway. Showers optional.

Dipstick provision? Priorities my friend.... priorities. :lol:

[skatinjay27]

hey i drink o-douls all day!!!!!!!! hahaha
no I drink every once and a while, just not as much as you fishys!:P
Im always there for the payback crew but i doubt you need my "skills" to take out that Detroit mutt-mobile driven by Jean Girard !!!! :lol:
im down with ricky bobby too dave.

[Vegas69]

:rofl: :rofl: :thumbsup:

[Spiffav8]

:lol:


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

hey i drink o-douls all day!!!!!!!! hahaha
no I drink every once and a while, just not as much as you fishys!:P
Im always there for the payback crew but i doubt you need my "skills" to take out that Detroit mutt-mobile driven by Jean Girard !!!! :lol:
im down with ricky bobby too dave.

I think Shake n Bake can handle Dr. Quinn and Medicine Woman. :lol:

My secret? I get all jacked up on Mt Dew before every race. :rofl:

k5zFiYHgftw

[skatinjay27]

lol!!!!!!
the payback build thread was missing some of this lately! haha


got any to tech shiz to put it back on track todd?:unibrow:

like an F. I. setup hahaha

[GregWeld]

lol!!!!!!
the payback build thread was missing some of this lately! haha


got any to tech shiz to put it back on track todd?:unibrow:

like an F. I. setup hahaha


OMG! As much as he messes with his suspension and you're asking him to go EFI!! :rofl: :woot:

[Stuart Adams]

OMG! As much as he messes with his suspension and you're asking him to go EFI!! :rofl: :woot:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Vegas69]

EFI is for women and children.:D

All the tech I got is kickin some ass and takin some names. Who's next?

[rogue]

this cars finished.

time for another project:thumbsup:

[Flash68]

All the tech I got is kickin some ass and takin some names. Who's next?

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/tombstone.jpg

[Vegas69]

this cars finished.

time for another project:thumbsup:

Screw that, my ass is still chapped from this one. I'm going to enjoy it a while. :yes:

I still have a couple tweaks up my sleeve.:D

[CarlC]

We're tied. It's going to be a duke-fest at the next gathering.

[CrossRamRich]

Lotsa heat goin' on here. Almost time for "Mom Jokes"!!!!!!:lol:

[Vegas69]

Back at it again. :D It's nice to be back running with the big boys at my local SCCA again. 6th fastest today and coned away a 4th place best , Raw time. http://lvrscca.org/race-results/autox/2011/round05_raw.htm
6RobIuyAfPw

[waynieZ]

Congratulation's Todd, Nice run.

[Ron in SoCal]

That's awesome Todd. Love seeing you kick some import butt...:thumbsup:

[Flash68]

Nice work Toddy... :thumbsup: still on the R888s I presume.... 6th out of ?

so... think about Buttonwillow July 30.... you live in the desert already so you're used to the heat. :unibrow:

[skatinjay27]

sweet!

my fav part! ( "53.4" - "did i hit a cone?" -"53.4" - "did i hit a cone?" -"oh i dont know, he didn't announce anything - " huh" - "MAYBE NOT! i dont think so")
hahaha

[skatinjay27]

Nice work Toddy... :thumbsup: still on the R888s I presume.... 6th out of ?
:out of 5!:P

[GregWeld]

Great commercial for GoPro!

[Vegas69]

Nice work Toddy... :thumbsup: still on the R888s I presume.... 6th out of ?

so... think about Buttonwillow July 30.... you live in the desert already so you're used to the heat. :unibrow:

You see that hyperlink...:unibrow: 77 cars total and hell no, I'm not running buttonwillow on July 30th. R888's for life....

#1 for cars that drove to the track.....
sweet!

my fav part! ( "53.4" - "did i hit a cone?" -"53.4" - "did i hit a cone?" -"oh i dont know, he didn't announce anything - " huh" - "MAYBE NOT! i dont think so")
hahaha

He was just pissed that I scorched his time in his Mazda Miata. :rofl:

[rogue]

Screw that, my ass is still chapped from this one. I'm going to enjoy it a while. :yes:

I still have a couple tweaks up my sleeve.:D

Put a Cone Dicer on the front so no one deducts points when you plow into them with your heavy non ls big block
:lol:

[Vegas69]

HA HA I hit a boat load too. I got cone rash up my aise.

Thanks to Mr. Rupp & Licata for posting these killer photos on their site and in some cases, magazine. :thumbsup:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/camp-1105-18optima-ultimate-street-car-invitational1969-chevy-camaro.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/camp_1106_62_zrun_to_the_coastweb_exclusive_images _JPG.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/camp_1106_86_zrun_to_the_coastweb_exclusive_images .jpg

[CrossRamRich]

Wow! That's a nice paint job. I can see the reflection of the surroundings perfectly. Oh ya, nice driving!:thumbsup:

[BBC69Camaro]

Awesome action photos :hail:

[tones2SS]

Great video Todd. Great action pics as well. Your car sounds so nasty. Good luck going forward.
Very nice.:thumbsup: :cheers:

[Vegas69]

Lashed the valves and checked the oil. Time for a beer. :lol:

[Stuart Adams]

Lashed the valves and checked the oil. Time for a beer. :lol:

LS = drinking sooner. Love the car.

[Vegas69]

Ya, but you have to work up a thirst...:D

[Flash68]

Lashed the valves and checked the oil. Time for a beer. :lol:

Solid update Todd. :lol: :cheers:

[Bow Tie 67]

Hey I thought you were on the wagon :willy: Nothing wrong with beer, especially with the humidity we have had in Chi-Town. 89* and 80% humidity fun-times.

[Vegas69]

I fell off and tumbled down the hill quite some time ago.:lol:

[GregWeld]

Had a little ride along with Todd on the autocross......



ChZwuj3hCvw&feature=player_embedded#at=49

[Stuart Adams]

OMG that is so funny. Greg you are hilarious.

[GHOSTDANCER]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[BBC69Camaro]

That was pretty funny :yes:

[coolwelder62]

Todd is better looking in this Video than past Video's.:lol: :lol: Greg,you need a hair cut.:lol: :lol:

[Alex396ss]

:rofl:

:cheers:

Alex

[uk68327]

:rofl: great video, Greg, you remind me of Ryan Stiles :rofl:

[Vegas69]

With anticipation of the event at California speedway next month, I started my pre race inspection and I'm doing a rear brake conversion. It didn't take me long to find a problem.

My frame is cracked on both sides.

I'm really not sure if it's from the SCCA event or the drag race last month. I'm leaning towards the drag racing but it broke at the triangulated mounts which makes me wonder.

My question to chassis and fabrication guys on the forum. Can I have it welded up(Reinforcing) and what type of welding? I still want to make the race in California next month. What would you do?
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/CrackedFrame002.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/CrackedFrame004.jpg

[coolwelder62]

I would clean the frame rail to bare metal passed the OEM Galz.coating.Use a small grinder and bevel the crack to the inside of the frame rail.I would use a tig welder to control the heat in the weld zone.Then metal finish the weld smooth.Trying not to remove any of the frame rail material.Fab a small diamond shaped gusset(3in.tall x4.5 long) for the outside of the frame.Then I fab surport gusset the shape of the frame from the lower bracket to upper on both sides of the the frame.This should spread out the load from the upper link's thur the side of the iner frame back to the shock cross tube.Todd good luck.If you were closer I could help you out.:thumbsup: Scott M.

[GregWeld]

Clean it - grind it out a bit so it's clean - weld it up - then FISH PLATE it.... I'd tie into the crossmember - which is the origin of the crack. That crossmember was welded with too much heat and caused the metal to become brittle right next to the weld area. Poor welding - plain and simple.

[g356gear]

Wow, with that much torque, and that much tire, there must have been a ton of twist on those rear rails to cause a stress crack. It almost looks like the welding in of the 4-link may have weakened the frame rail and made it brittle along the weld edge.
If it were me, I would think the best way to repair would be to get the cars weight supported so that the cracks close up and then re-weld the crack. I would then probably section out the outside of the frame rail and add steel to the inside of the channel to re-inforce the rail. After that, close up the outside of the rail and maybe add another plate of steel to match the rail profile and give it some more thickness.
Without removing the 4-link, the access is pretty limited. Grafting in heavier rear frame rails might be in order during the off season.

[GregWeld]

BTW --- Welcome to the world of high horsepower and big sticky tires... on 42 year old metal. The too high of heat caused "carbonization" of the base metal... in other words - it became brittle.....

It's really not uncommon nor is it a "big deal" now that you've discovered it. Just make sure you go to a REAL chassis shop that knows how to weld stuff correctly. Lots of people can stick two pieces of metal together -- but that ain't all there is to welding.

[skatinjay27]

just get some beefed up art Morrison frame rails in there!!!!1:lol:
what greg and mock said above will be good to go.

no way it was solely the drag racing... seeing your 60s you didnt hook hard enough to cause that instantaneously, im sure its been a slow process. by the location of the crack you can deffinatly tell it was weaken due to the bracket being welded in...

as far as having someone local do it, Im pretty sure russel still does work at his home shop and for your anal azz he's the only person local i can think of that will work for you. call curtis i think he has his contact info.

[BBC71Nova]

Wow. Now you've gone and done it :_paranoid .

:thumbsup: for those pre-race inspections. I'm guessing those don't happen enough for many people. This is a good reminder for everyone.

[Vegas69]

I was actually kind of proud of myself. :unibrow: :rolleyes: I've always kept a close eye on the rear frame rails. They are original and in very good shape but I was never impressed with the welding that holds the cradle in the car. It's definitely happened within the last 2 events. I get on a creeper and go from nose to tail with a flash light on a regular basis.

John is absolutely correct. It's very important to stay on top of these cars, especially when you run them at the limit like I do. 6000 miles and over 20 races. I'm not surprised but glad I found it before my trip to CA next month.

Thanks for the advice guys. Maybe I'll swing by Ironworks on the way to the event. I wanted to drive the car, but I may end up just trailering to Ironworks and having them fix me up and on my way. If I can't find someone local I trust, which is not likely at this point. Greg, I was thinking the same thing. Tie it into the cradle.

[coolwelder62]

I was actually kind of proud of myself. :unibrow: :rolleyes: I've always kept a close eye on the rear frame rails. They are original and in very good shape but I was never impressed with the welding that holds the cradle in the car. It's definitely happened within the last 2 events. I get on a creeper and go from nose to tail with a flash light on a regular basis.

John is absolutely correct. It's very important to stay on top of these cars, especially when you run them at the limit like I do. 6000 miles and over 20 races. I'm not surprised but glad I found it before my trip to CA next month.

Thanks for the advice guys. Maybe I'll swing by Ironworks on the way to the event. I wanted to drive the car, but I may end up just trailering to Ironworks and having them fix me up and on my way. If I can't find someone local I trust, which is not likely at this point. Greg, I was thinking the same thing. Tie it into the cradle.That sounds like the best way to handle it Todd.the crew at ironwork's can fix correctly.:thumbsup:

[WicKeD_SS]

Damn that sucks man, hope you get it fixed soon!

[Spiffav8]

just get some beefed up art Morrison frame rails in there!!!!1:lol:
what greg and mock said above will be good to go.

no way it was solely the drag racing... seeing your 60s you didnt hook hard enough to cause that instantaneously, im sure its been a slow process. by the location of the crack you can deffinatly tell it was weaken due to the bracket being welded in...

as far as having someone local do it, Im pretty sure russel still does work at his home shop and for your anal azz he's the only person local i can think of that will work for you. call curtis i think he has his contact info.

Yeah...I'm like 8000 mile from home. Cell reception in this sh!t hole isn't going to happen. But I have the internet thankfully. Here's the number I have for Russ. 285-4211 He's the only local guy I know of and you know he does good work.

Best of luck buddy.

:captain:

[ironworks]

Clean it - grind it out a bit so it's clean - weld it up - then FISH PLATE it.... I'd tie into the crossmember - which is the origin of the crack. That crossmember was welded with too much heat and caused the metal to become brittle right next to the weld area. Poor welding - plain and simple.

Don't ask how I know. But we worked on a car :D with the same issue, only worse. The problem is the brackets are alot thicker then the stock frame rail material. And when you weld it in it needs more heat on the thicker material to make it actually penetrate the thicker stuff. Those parts are actually designed to be bolted in and one of my customers who has an engineering masters degree and a degree in welding inspection looked at the car here at the shop and said it might not have broken had we just bolted it in. CRAZY?? So on said car we just plated the outside frame rails with 1/8inch plate to spread the load over more of the rail.

Let me see if I have some pictures

[ironworks]

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/CrackedFrame002.jpg


It cracked right next to the weld, there is some fancy word about embrittlement issues that goes with what happened with old metal and new and heat embrittlement blah blah blah.

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/Chassisworks%20Camaro/ShopPicsOctober2010037.jpg

But at the end of the day, when you beat on cars they just break sooner then later.

[coolwelder62]

Todd, Look's like might in good hand's W/Rodger.:thumbsup:

[nvmyss]

I agree with Curtis, contact Russ.

[frojoe]

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/CrackedFrame002.jpg


The frame side of the weld acts like a huge heatsink and depending on how the weld was struck, the speed that the bead was laid, and the "tapering off" of the heat at the end of the bead, the localized heat affect zone might have caused the framerail side to be too brittle. The bracket would likely get hotter during welding, and a sharp end of the weld heat might cause the framerail to cool too quickly from an already lower temperature immediately around the weld... if I had to guess. This kind of heat affect zone is usually much more critical/noticeable in aluminum.




http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/Chassisworks%20Camaro/ShopPicsOctober2010037.jpg



I'd say the crack started at the welded-on bung for reasons I stated above and propogated from all the torque from the upper link trying to pull the bracket away.

[Vegas69]

There is a major difference in the design of the G-Bar(in my car) and the G-Link that is in Rogers car. The G-Bar has a front crossmember while the G-Link doesn't. Rogers is a severe frame fracture in his first event from my understanding. Mine is a crack after 6000 miles and 20 some races. We all know I don't baby my stuff.

My plan is to have the frame tig welded up and ground flat, then weld on a small diamond shape 1/8" steel bracket on the outside of the frame along with welding it to the cradle. Russ welded up my exhaust at ATS so I have nothing but confidence in him. Problem is, last time I called him, he never called me back.

[BBC71Nova]

Wow this has me rethinking the plan to go with the G-link. I'll definitely be hitting the strip on occasion with some sticky tires and I'd prefer my framerails stay intact. One of the things I liked about the G-link was that it seemed to be the stronger setup of the popular 4-link setups available. Maybe it's worth opening up the outside rail and welding in some plate to strengthen that area of the rail as part of the install.

[coolwelder62]

Wow this has me rethinking the plan to go with the G-link. I'll definitely be hitting the strip on occasion with some sticky tires and I'd prefer my framerails stay intact. One of the things I liked about the G-link was that it seemed to be the stronger setup of the popular 4-link setups available. Maybe it's worth opening up the outside rail and welding in some plate to strengthen that area of the rail as part of the install.Isn't Dan Holohan working on your Nova.I belive he is one of the best fabricator's to ever turn on a welder.Ask Dan how he would install your rear suspension.:thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Wow this has me rethinking the plan to go with the G-link. I'll definitely be hitting the strip on occasion with some sticky tires and I'd prefer my framerails stay intact. One of the things I liked about the G-link was that it seemed to be the stronger setup of the popular 4-link setups available. Maybe it's worth opening up the outside rail and welding in some plate to strengthen that area of the rail as part of the install.

It's not designed to be WELDED in --- I think it's a BOLT IN design -- which - if it was bolted in - you wouldn't have the embrittlement associated with the welding.

If it was welded in properly -- i.e., with some fish plating and re-inforcement it would probably be just fine.

[Vegas69]

In Roger's case, I'm not sure embrittelment argument holds up. It's not close to the fracture line like mine. In these triangulated 4 links, the uppers bars take extreme force keeping the rear end centered. With the front crossmember like mine has, both frame rails get loaded. Without, only one really gets loaded which isn't ideal.

Greg is right, they were both designed to be bolted in the chassis. As usual, we all think we know better than the engineer that designed the system. I'm not ready to say that bolting it in would have netted me better results at this point. 1/16" sheetmetal would take a beating either way.

[Track Junky]

Holy Shiz-nit!! Nice work torque king :D .

[syborg tt]

Okay so I now have a question

What about using the bolts & panel bonding glue ( fusor ) instead of welding ??

[pokey64]

The G-Link manual says to weld the bracket in place. It's a bolt/weld combo.



http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad79/edspokey64/g-linkweld.jpg

[Vegas69]

I've also heard Bret at Ride Tech mention to weld in an air bar(same as g bar) under extreme conditions.

Bottom line is we have a cracked frame and broken frame with both set ups.

[Payton King]

the lower control arms and shock mounts. Eliminate upper bars and build a torque arm and you will not have to worry about that problem again.

Just a thought

[ironworks]

I've also heard Bret at Ride Tech mention to weld in an air bar(same as g bar) under extreme conditions.

Bottom line is we have a cracked frame and broken frame with both set ups.


In reality, If you beat on stuff to the point it was never intended. It will break. You can put whatever suspension into these cars and in may live in most situations. But sometimes things break.

[fleetus macmullitz]

It cracked right next to the weld, there is some fancy word about embrittlement issues that goes with what happened with old metal and new and heat embrittlement blah blah blah.

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/Chassisworks%20Camaro/ShopPicsOctober2010037.jpg

But at the end of the day, when you beat on cars they just break sooner then later.

Now's a good time to put Doc Renner's unpatented panel gap spray to its biggest test. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Okay so I now have a question

What about using the bolts & panel bonding glue ( fusor ) instead of welding ??

Doesn't change the stress loads... and if the bolts don't hold it - the glue ain't going to either. You're just trying to take the heat out of the equation... But PERSONALLY I think the real issue is 500 #'s of TQ and big azz tire loads on a part that was designed for a 6 banger...

Drag racers back half the cars....

Big HP and TQ cars need to build in far stronger support with these super sticky tires... Remember -- these cars are just sheet metal crap.

[Rybar]

Sorry to hear that this happened Todd and glad you found out before warping any body panels and needing paint. This does worry me with my new G-link but I doubt I will ever find time to beat on my car as much as you do yours. Glad it can be fixed. :thumbsup:

[syborg tt]

Doesn't change the stress loads... and if the bolts don't hold it - the glue ain't going to either. You're just trying to take the heat out of the equation... But PERSONALLY I think the real issue is 500 #'s of TQ and big azz tire loads on a part that was designed for a 6 banger...

Drag racers back half the cars....

Big HP and TQ cars need to build in far stronger support with these super sticky tires... Remember -- these cars are just sheet metal crap.

There would be less chance of welding affecting the metal

[johnny68]

Todd hate to hear it and look at it im sorry dude may call Blake over at speed tech and do the torque arm deal
john

[Vegas69]

With the abuse it's taken, I'm going to reinforce it and stick with what I have. I found the weak link and I'll fix it professionally and move on.

I'm with Greg, these frame rails are thin and GM engineers are probably rolling in their graves right now. If I have problems down the road, it will get thicker rails.

[dhutton]

Hey Todd, is that your sway bar mountiing plates beside the break? (Hard for me to get my bearings in those pics.) If it is I wonder if it played a role in this failure.

Don

[Vegas69]

Don, I really don't think so. I haven't had a sway bar on it regularly since putting the BFG tires on it well over a year ago. Even with the r888's, I don't need one anymore since switching to stiffer springs after Optima. The sway bar only add's about 75-100 in/lbs anyway.

[67zo6Camaro]

With the abuse it's taken, I'm going to reinforce it and stick with what I have. I found the weak link and I'll fix it professionally and move on.

I'm with Greg, these frame rails are thin and GM engineers are probably rolling in their graves right now. If I have problems down the road, it will get thicker rails.

Good discussion, lots of concern, lots of opinions.... But you hit the nail on the head, and I'm glad it came to this final thought. "Original GM frame rail metal thickness and over usage for intended design"

Based on your attention to detail, It will be 10x stronger when you are done with the repair. I like your style.

Brett

[DFRESH]

See, you never have to wonder what is next on the car, it will always let you know what it wants.

That blows but glad you found out now brother---I will keep an eye on mine in the future once the car has sticky tires and more than 238 Ft Pds.

Rodger's car must have been faster and had more torque, his broken frame rail was like way more broken than yours. :lol:

Let me know if you are def coming out for the Calif Speedway deal---my place is available if you need it--hoping to have my car ready for that event as well.

D

[67zo6Camaro]

See, you never have to wonder what is next on the car, it will always let you know what it wants.

D

No, No... that's not always true for everyone. Only if you have an Apollo type relationship with your car. :rofl:

[Vegas69]

Big Wanda, I'm making that race! Not sure I want to drive to Lake Forest every night. Thanks for the invite....:cheers:

[Vegas69]

Here's a quick design for a gusset. My thought is to over lap the cradle the same distance on each side of the outside of the frame. Along with a diamond shape that would be welded to the cradle on the bottom side, tack welded in every hole, and welded to the top of the frame rail/body. I'm also going to radius the sharp outside edges so I don't create any points.

The current crack will be tig welded and ground smooth.

I'll likely make it about another 1" longer to cover the body plug hole and get closer to my sway bar mount. Let me have it....
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/FrameGusset.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/FrameGusset1004.jpg

[coolwelder62]

That's a good plate design,I would use the same amount of holes only around 5/16 dia. A plate w/9/16 hole's might allow the surport plate to fracture sooner(plus larger holes mean more welds and more heat it the weld zone..A smaller hole will allow the plate to provide more of the surport needed.Keeping the end's of plate angled will not let the frame rail shear as easy.:thumbsup:

[69x22]

That's a good plate design,I would use the same amount of holes only around 5/16 dia. A plate w/9/16 hole's might allow the surport plate to fracture sooner(plus larger holes mean more welds and more heat it the weld zone..A smaller hole will allow the plate to provide more of the surport needed.Keeping the end's of plate angled will not let the frame rail shear as easy.:thumbsup:

I agree but, tie it in to the sway bar mount and weld it out too.

[CrossRamRich]

"My old man is a TV repair man, he's got an ULTIMATE set of tools,....... I can fix it!":unibrow: