Project "Payback"

[Vegas69]

I really hadnt touched the car since I got back. I've been busy as hell with a company move and misc. other life stuff. I got a chance to give the car a brief inspection. Everything looks great so far. Definitely some new blemishes in front of the rear tires from the rocks getting slammed down on the pavement and bounced up. I'd trade that for the fun we had anyday. Checked the oil and it was only down .4 qt after at least 1 hour of racing and many street miles. I'd estimate 30-40 minutes of high rpm road racing(Many many blasts over 6500). I found about half of that oil in my breather tanks. The system is working perfectly. That was the ultimate test. I couldn't be happier. It's gorgeous out so I'm going to take it out to an appointment today, and autocross tomorrow AM.

[Jr]

Todd,
You have the G-link rear setup on this car, right?

[rogue]

Dane, no more saying I don't like to track my car. :D I beat the living **** out of this thing. This car definitely needs a rear sway bar. Keep in mind it's all aftermarket suspension with the DSE sub and Alston rear. I'm close on teh setup. The road course set up was really close. A little tight if anything. I changed it for the autocross and forgot to let some air out of the tires. It was just crazy loose. I'm going to try some shock adjustments next autocross with the rear bar in teh road course hole. Then tweak it with air pressure. 800hp NA is tough unless you run a massive cam, single plane, race gas, etc. The most average torque wins. This engine does that beautifully. Not only does it zing to 6800 easily, it makes power at 2500.

For you guys that missed the photos from Sean at Chevy Hi Performance. My first wheelie and me scaring the crap out of Kelli.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/ELTOROTRACKEVENT077.jpg



So glad you're hooked man. I thought I had typed out a response to you, but my memory has gone to crap since surgery. LOVE the photo of your wife screaming her ass off :lol: I forgot you're running all the latest goodies out back.

My girl's just getting used to taking Mulholland at 70mph in the mini without using the brakes. She laughs, but is still scared. Its tough easing them into trusting you :thumbsup:

I've been pissing off some people here lately so I'm going to lay low for a while for a while before Scott bans my ass. Apparently my sarcasm and smile doesn't translate well here.

[Vegas69]

I have a modified G Bar.

She really enjoys the races so I'm a lucky man for sure. I can see how you rub a few people the wrong way. :lol: You have to be yourself man. Still look forward to running with you one of these days.:cheers:

[tones2SS]

I really hadnt touched the car since I got back. I've been busy as hell with a company move and misc. other life stuff. I got a chance to give the car a brief inspection. Everything looks great so far. Definitely some new blemishes in front of the rear tires from the rocks getting slammed down on the pavement and bounced up. I'd trade that for the fun we had anyday. Checked the oil and it was only down .4 qt after at least 1 hour of racing and many street miles. I'd estimate 30-40 minutes of high rpm road racing(Many many blasts over 6500). I found about half of that oil in my breather tanks. The system is working perfectly. That was the ultimate test. I couldn't be happier. It's gorgeous out so I'm going to take it out to an appointment today, and autocross tomorrow AM.

That's great to hear about the car Todd.
Let us know how it went today at the auto-x. HAVE FUN!!:cheers:

[Vegas69]

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QQvCwAayvDA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QQvCwAayvDA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[GregWeld]

Sweet!

Like the new camera position! It gives a clearer view of the track and your speed I think.

[tones2SS]

VERY NICE!!:cheers:
Any idea what your average speed is going through there?! Looked like you were really moving.:wow: :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

It's definitely a better perspective for me to learn. When I walked the track this morning I thought I was going to mop them up. This is the first autocross I've run where the gas pedal never hit the floor. The asphalt was hot and it felt slick today. It's already in the mid 80's. I ran well but was surprised how little power I could use once I got out there. It was certainly more technical than I expected. They always have good set ups and a great group of guys and gals. I decided to skip the afternoon and relax at home. Makes me want to charge the A/C!

It definitely wasn't one of the fastest tracks I've run. I'd guess nothing over 70mph.

[cdushane]

Awesome video Todd :thumbsup:

[NovaBlue71]

Todd, looks like fun,thanks for the video.:thumbsup: Joe

[phillym5]

Did you pretty much run that in 2nd gear?

[Vegas69]

Ya, I have a big block not some weeny little LS engine. :rofl: I run all my autocrosses in 2nd. I rev it to 6800 which is about 80mph. The torque curve is so good that it works well at 2500 as well. I didn't have much traction out there today. I ran the El Toro road race in 3rd gear and never shifted out of it once. The linear power is hard to beat for what I'm doing. You need to get out and do some autocrosses and road races. You'll be hooked. Where else can you go as fast as you want without getting a speeding ticket or killing yourself? You have no clue what that car will do until you take it off road. Trust me...

[tones2SS]

It's definitely a better perspective for me to learn. When I walked the track this morning I thought I was going to mop them up. This is the first autocross I've run where the gas pedal never hit the floor. The asphalt was hot and it felt slick today. It's already in the mid 80's. I ran well but was surprised how little power I could use once I got out there. It was certainly more technical than I expected. They always have good set ups and a great group of guys and gals. I decided to skip the afternoon and relax at home. Makes me want to charge the A/C!

It definitely wasn't one of the fastest tracks I've run. I'd guess nothing over 70mph.

VERY COOL!! Looked like you were kicking some serious asphalt there.:wow:
I like the new camera angle as well.:thumbsup:

[waynieZ]

Camera placement made it easier for me to see the cones. With my bad eyesite the last videos made it hard to see the cones going as fast as you were,and thats what its all about. The car looks like its running great.

[Jr]

I have a modified G Bar.



Todd,
What on the G bar is modified? I tried some random searching through your thread, but I couldn't find the info in the 150+ pages.

David

[Vegas69]

Lower shock mounting points, end links, and sway bar.

[Payton King]

pads in?

Now that you have some miles on them, how are the XP10's on the front?

[Vegas69]

I haven't got around to it. I've got alot going right now. The xp10's haven't squeaked yet and have more cold bite. Those rear pads aren't going to do my much good with the knockback anyway. I'm going to try the 1" bore master soon.

[Payton King]

what's another $12-$1500 when you are in this deep. LOL

When you have time, I will tell you how to spend $8000 to get 2 more inches of rubber on each side.

[Vegas69]

Won't work, my rearend is to narrow.:unibrow: The car is going to stay like it is for a while. I've been forced to change Real Estate companies along with a zillion other things. I'll just drive it and enjoy it!

[rogue]

Won't work, my rearend is to narrow.:unibrow: The car is going to stay like it is for a while. I've been forced to change Real Estate companies along with a zillion other things. I'll just drive it and enjoy it!

Sorry to hear that Todd. Hopefully you're in commercial? Vegas has been hit hard as hell I hear. I heard some of those condo/loft towers are 95% empty?

If you ever want to track down this direction let me know and I'm in. You got a place to crash. We should meet at Buttonwillow one of these days, or better yet big willow. You'll love the track. Lots of space to use the BBC power.

There's a bachelor party in vegas coming up, and theres no trackdays at spring mountain, otherwise I'd come up. But since I don't drink, gamble, that leaves one thing in Vegas for me. Track and well.... the significant other wouldn't like the other option.

[rogue]

It's definitely a better perspective for me to learn. When I walked the track this morning I thought I was going to mop them up. This is the first autocross I've run where the gas pedal never hit the floor. The asphalt was hot and it felt slick today. It's already in the mid 80's. I ran well but was surprised how little power I could use once I got out there. It was certainly more technical than I expected. They always have good set ups and a great group of guys and gals. I decided to skip the afternoon and relax at home. Makes me want to charge the A/C!

It definitely wasn't one of the fastest tracks I've run. I'd guess nothing over 70mph.

if you have an iphone or android phone. Get Trackmaster and a mount for your phone...

http://trackmaster.trackaroo.com/welcome

Some data from big willow. Cheap and easy data logging thats apparently accurate.

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6267/mar1020101239pm20100310.png

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/4338/trackmastergmeter201003.png

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/4361/trackmastergraph2010031.png

for $5 can't beat it. Pardon me if I've already mentioned it. My memory is going. :_paranoid

[Vegas69]

I'm in residential and I've been with the same Remax office for 5 years. They decided to switch to Beter Homes and Gardens on the 9th. Their ideals don't fit mine so I'm leaving. The problem is with the financial side of things. They control my deals in escrow and my license for 10 days. I've already found my new home and it's a greener pasture. It's just all the other bull ****. Believe it or not I still carry a razor. :rofl: All my buddies are on those damn I phones on teh golf course and at the bar. No thanks. It's to damn hot to run here in the Summer so my track outing will be in California for sure. I'll give you a heads up when I'm coming your way. Keep me in the loop on your end.

[rogue]

Glad to hear you're doing well. My brothers struggling a bit and so are the rest of the LA brokers I know.

Out of curiosity what front calipers are you running? SL6? Dynapro?

[Vegas69]

They are the superlite 6 pistons with 13" rotors. I had 14" but had to downsize due to the new step lip wheels.

[Bow Tie 67]

Lol I loved my razor upgraded to a droid 7 days ago love it just sent this from the couch

[skatinjay27]

damn, so does that mean your gonna have to move from your new office already? isn't it in the remax building.

[Vegas69]

Yep, I never fully moved into that office. There are different Remax brokerages in town. I'll be off Eastern/St. Rose now. All brand new furniture and it all doesn't fit in my new office. One of those deals where it's a good thing with a few side effects. :lol:

[Vegas69]

The absense of tread depth is making more sense by the minute. :unibrow:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/IMG_68152.jpg

[tones2SS]

The absense of tread depth is making more sense by the minute. :unibrow:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/IMG_68152.jpg

:hail: :bow: :hail:

[phillym5]

drift or burn out?

[Vegas69]

It started as a 4 wheel slide at El Toro and I quickly turned it into a 360 degree smokey burnout back onto the course. :D

[phillym5]

It started as a 4 wheel slide at El Toro and I quickly turned it into a 360 degree smokey burnout back onto the course. :D

Haha.... nice!

[camaro1969]

how do you keep your cars reflection always looking like glass, other than having a 15k paintjob, do you use like zaino or wax daily, or do like a cut polish every month?

[skatinjay27]

how do you keep your cars reflection always looking like glass, other than having a 15k paintjob, do you use like zaino or wax daily, or do like a cut polish every month? he uses zaino but even before that the car still looked like glass... alot of it has to do with the quality of the paintjob.

[BritishGreen68]

alot of it has to do with the quality of the paintjob.
exactly. A paintjob that has orange peel (such as an OEM paint job) is much harder to to keep glassy looking (well, black..) because you have microfine scratches in "valley" areas of the orange peel. Paint that has been cut and buffed flat, when you wax it, it easily fills all the scratches because they are not hidden in the texture.. sorry not sure why i went into that.. but im not deleting it now! muahahah

[Vegas69]

Payback will be running the Silver State Classic in September. The plan is to run the fastest class allowed and the 1/2 mile shootout. I love Big Red as much as the next guy. Those videos get my blood pumping beyond comprehension. The Silver State Classic is on my list of musts. My car was made to run this event. I can't wait to flex my muscle!

[mfain]

Todd,

The Silver State Classic is where you start to test the line between PT and a race car. Unless you get a waiver, you have to run the 110 mph class the first time out (tech to 124 mph). After that, things like window nets (or arm restraints), HANs devices, and five or six point harnesses become manadatory. To get teched to go fast in the upper classes, you run into cage requirements that have specs for things like the number of bends in the front and rear hoops, diagonal brace specifications, etc.. A 1.75 inch / .120 wall full cage (if DOM) is required for cars over 3000 lbs. The complete rule book is available on line. I sleep with the SCCA, NASA and Silver State rule books under my pillow and it results in sleepless nights and a "never quite finished" car. There are a lot of compromises to keep the car streetable and race legal, without even considering comfortable. I just spent two months putting a mandatory metal firewall between the fuel cell and the passenger compartment (last year's rule), and now it reads "metal (steel or aluminum) PREFERRED". Good luck -- I'll come out cheer you on.

Pappy

[Flash68]

Payback will be running the Silver State Classic in September. The plan is to run the fastest class allowed and the 1/2 mile shootout. I love Big Red as much as the next guy. Those videos get my blood pumping beyond comprehension. The Silver State Classic is on my list of musts. My car was made to run this event. I can't wait to flex my muscle!

awesome, toddski! I'd love to come over and see that being it's not terribly far for me. I'll put it on my to-do list. then we can about you building my next camaro! :D

[GregWeld]

Todd,

The Silver State Classic is where you start to test the line between PT and a race car. Unless you get a waiver, you have to run the 110 mph class the first time out (tech to 124 mph).


I might sign up my worn out old dually... 'cause even I could run that! :rofl:

[Vegas69]

Ya, I don't plan to run the unlimited class with this car. :lol: It's more about the experience and the standing 1/2 or mile. I'll go as far as they'll let me without compromising my car.

[tones2SS]

Sounds awesome Todd.
Good luck buddy!:cheers:

[68/Camaro]

Todd,
Great job on your Car again! Love it!:thumbsup:

[Jr]

Todd,
I forgot to post this video.

HDJQJlG0QqM

[Jr]

xMW6ZH9-aI8

[Vegas69]

Thanks...:cheers:

[phillym5]

Car sounds great.... but you could probably shave off a full second with that "granny shift'n" you got going on..... lol.

[GregWeld]

Ooooooooooooooooooooooo....... Josh -- that's funny!
:thumbsup:

[nvr2fst]

Todd,
Glad to see your getting all the potential out of your car so far.
Looks great, track times are great, your analogies are great, your shifting is fine LOL.

[Vegas69]

Hey Josh, I had to give the guys a chance. :lol: The Tko 600 isn't the smoothest shifting trans I've ever had my hand on. I'm calling you out, get your butt down this way and let's find out who's got the top dog. :unibrow: Drag, Road Race, Autocross, best total time wins. Why aren't you running any of the events down the street from you?

[phillym5]

Vegas...
I don't get to the events because im too busy traveling... and what not.
Although..... I do get to the freeway on race nights... and know how to power shift my Tranzilla.... and know how to pull the front wheels off the ground an inch oe 2 in second gear. Also... know how to brake boost... and turn the little (boost)dial if someone is pulling out on me...lol.

I will admit though... outside of playing a little on off ramps.... i haven't spent time at the auto cross. So unfortunately...(but good for you)... you will probably get me through the cones. However.... top speed, drag racing... and roll racing... you will have some STOUT competition. :unibrow:

My car will be in So Cal for good starting in June. We can hook up and play with these suckers again after then. Can't wait to get the gals back together!!:cheers:

[Vegas69]

Ya, I understand that man. I like the road racing better. Autocross is fun but to me it's just a compromise. I like speed like you. I'll be making at least one more trip to Cali this year. Let's do it. :cheers:

[rogue]

Hey Josh, I had to give the guys a chance. :lol: The Tko 600 isn't the smoothest shifting trans I've ever had my hand on. I'm calling you out, get your butt down this way and let's find out who's got the top dog. :unibrow: Drag, Road Race, Autocross, best total time wins. Why aren't you running any of the events down the street from you?

careful with the friendly competition comments, next thing you know you'll be belittling people because they don't drive their cars as hard as you choose too :_paranoid

:lol:

[rogue]

My car will be in So Cal for good starting in June. We can hook up and play with these suckers again after then. Can't wait to get the gals back together!!:cheers:

Send me a PM and we can link up for a track day or a cruise or whatever. I'm in Silver Lake just above downtown and always down to cause havoc.

Feel like doing Buttonwillow or The Roval?

[Payton King]

Going to Motor State and thinking about running the AX6 in the rear and the XP10's in front

[Vegas69]

Nope, I've been busy. The xp10's still make some noise here and there. They don't squeak, I'd call it a groan. They do stop great though. I plan to swap my master cylinder to the 1" bore and do the pads at that time. Not sure when I'll get around to it. The way I see it, they aren't going to do me much good until I can get some fluid volume or a floating set up back there. There is an auto cross at the end of the month but we're closing on our new house so it's doubtful I'll make it.

[89 RS]

Todd, saw those last two videos posted, that engine just screams man. Pretty freakin' sweet.

[Vegas69]

Corey, the engine is ****ing insane.:thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

Have I told you how much I love my car lately....:unibrow: Went out for a much needed blast tonight. I just turned over 4,000 miles and the car is sorted out pretty damn decent. Great power, great ride, great handling, great tunes, sounds great, drivability is decent. Stopped at a gas station and had a mini car show. Had 7 guys asking questions and drooling. I made a serious impression on 3 kids that looked about 18-20. The one kid says, " I never though I'd see a car that I wouldn't change a thing" I'd have to say it's one of my favorite compliments yet.

There are few things I'll eventually change.
Better headlights
1" bore master cylinder(It's in the garage)
Play with the pinion angle a little more(Running out pretty damn smooth now at high speed)
Charge the AC!

It's getting close to tweaked to my idea of perfection.:thumbsup:

[68/Camaro]

Congrats Todd!:thumbsup: Its great to inspire these young kids and get them over to our your side!

[tones2SS]

I don't blame them Todd. Your car is killer. Glad to hear she's running well. ENJOY!!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[waynieZ]

Good Man! you may have saved them from a life of rice burners. lol Glad to hear your happy with the upgrades you made. It is a gorgeous car. Enjoy!
Wayne

[89 RS]

That's awesome Todd! It's great to get those compliments. It makes you feel like somebody notices how much hard work goes into our rides. I'll admit though, even though I'm not a kid anymore, if I saw your Camaro at a gas station, I would be acting like a kid in awe myself.:D

[Vegas69]

I'm just been busy mainly with work and life but been prepping the car for my run over to L.A. to make the West coast swing with the boys. I've decided to drive my car to L.A. to Dougs house, up to Pleasanton Good Guys, and back home. (If the weather looks decent)

You know me, I can't leave anything along. Since I"ll be driving 750 miles minimum and my R888's got thrashed at RTTC, I swapped the tires out for the BFG KDW's this week. My boy Joe at Findlay Customs swapped them out for me. Wow, what a pain in the ass that was not scuffing a wheel.

I also decided to change the master cylinder from 7/8 to 1". I had one laying on the shelf. After inspecting the old 7/8 and bleeding the brakes, the 7/8 was in poor shape. The front lines and calipers were full of grungy fluid with metal particles. I think the excessive brake pedal travel caused some bore wear. Let's see, I figure 25 turns per run, per autocross. That means approximatlely 250 pumps per event!

I made a pinion angle change just using common sense. I ended up moving te pinion down until my working angles were within .5 but not equal and opposite. The front angle is 3.5 and the rear is 3.0. That's the best it can be without chopping up the tunnel in the car.

Other than that I replaced the drive belt and topped checked all my fluids. I did a bolt check on some misc fasteners.

I finally took it out for a ride tonight. I couldn't belive how high the pedal was right out of the gate. Something didn't feel right but I hadn't driven it yet with the new master cylinder. I got to the freeway and got about a mile down the road and it was apparent the brakes were applying themselves! I had to drop in in second and then 1st to get into a parking lot. Luckily I carry a mini tool kit. I pulled out the cotter pin and spun the pedal rod clevis in a couple turns and it was fixed. There was pedal play before but I guess it wasn't enough. :unibrow: Anyway, my brake pad knock back seems to be fixed. I can't believe it. A ******* master cylinder change is all it took. The brakes are so much better. The pedal is way higher, it's firmer, and honestly doesn't require much more leg. 7/8 bore master is the wrong cylinder for my car. Glad it's fixed. I can't wait to race this thing without pumping brakes! Maybe I'll read a magazine instead of pumping brakes. :rofl: The pinion angle change made the car run out the smoothest it's ever been. It's staying that way for good. It did change my rear ride height and the car feels different. I'm hoping dropping it the .5-.75 get's my feel back. I hope it's not these BFG tires causing the feel change. It doesn't feel like my sorted car right now. The bias is off so I hope it fixes it. I'll find out this weekend. Forward bite seems about the same on the street so far. No pictures, I'm strung between my house and new office and we're closing on our new house tomorrow. I'll have a new shop to tinker in soon. :D It's about time to put a fork in this one, I may just take on somebody elses project for fun down the road here.

[pokey64]

It's about time to put a fork in this one, I may just take on somebody elses project for fun down the road here.

Well if your bored we could just swap 69s and you could start sorting mine out! :unibrow: J/K. It's been fun and informatve watching you refine the car. Looking forward to seeing more videos of you ripping up the tracks! Congrats on the new shop/house.

[Bow Tie 67]

Nice work with the master cylinder, if your knock back is gone you'll be a very happy camper while racing.

Now get her to a drag strip just for ****s and giggles.

[GregWeld]

Good to hear that news Todd!

Funny that all it took was a MC change. Buddies come by the shed all the time with some "issue" or another... they've got all manor of theories and big $$ cause and effect... Then I'll ask them about something they've "changed" or if they
checked "blah blah".. and you can see their eyes go wide.. and the wheels start churning. My point it - most of the time - it's something real simple.

I got a good laugh at the 1st gear to keep moving to get off the street. I did the same thing in the Nomad. Barely made it to a parking lot! Had to call Gwen to bring me a 9/16"... I wasn't going anywhere - those brakes were "bedded"! :rofl:

So will you be running the KDW's at track events? Or is this a street tire? You get extra points now for running BFG's at certain events right? Like at RTTC and that "series"?

[Vegas69]

Pappy, it would need to move under it's own power to work the bugs out. :D Get that hot rod moving so we can have some fun.

I'm hoping one of the events has a drag race. It's definitely on the list of musts....

Greg, it wasn't just the master cylinder. Changing from the roller to tapered bearing and having Wilwood re design a retainer with more pre load certainly cut it way down. Between Frank and Wilwod telling me over and over that a 1" bore was wrong, I just didn't think it was going to make that big a difference. To be honest, it was a desperation move. I figured it would make some difference with the compromise of stepping on a brick. Now I'm out of excuses. Damn...:unibrow: I couldn't make the pedal move on the street and I could always simulate it almost full scale. I think it will a HUGE improvement on the track. I've never had good brakes on the track. I should say without a quick pump. Clearly in the Baer Speed Stop Challenge I didn't need to pump them.
The BFG's are one to stay until they are worn out. All the events are now 200 treadwear. The only idea I have is to buy a spare set of wheels and throw some A6's on them for local SCCA events. That would require trailering the car to the event and I'm not crazy about that. With two houses and some remodeling and repairs, that is not on the radar right now.:_paranoid

[tones2SS]

Glad you got it sorted out Todd! Such a killer car.:cheers:
Did you say you were looking to build someone else's project for a change?!!?:unibrow:

[mfain]

Ouch -- I work on it every day, but I don't have Greg's tools, so I'm a little slow. Glad you're getting your car sorted the way you want it. I haven't heard you say anything about the earlier loose condition lately. What did you finally do with the rear sway bar?

Pappy

[Vegas69]

I just moved the rear bar up to the front hole. I neutralized the car nicely for the street and road course. Maybe a tick tight in autocross. It's more fun to drive loose. :D Now I switched tires and need to dial the rear ride height back into spec. I hope the feel I want comes back.

[Vegas69]

It's about time to put a fork in this one,.

I forgot to knock on wood with this statement. Even though it made no sense to me, I adjusted the master cylinder rod length after the brakes locked up on me and it seemed to solve the issue the rest of the night. The next day I decided to drive it out to our new house and low and behold the brakes locked up as I got to the house! Clearly it was due to different conditions. When I put the new 1" bore master in, it was a different designed piston. I felt there was plenty of slack between the piston and push rod. I guess I was wrong. The problem is, I must angle the rod upwards to put the clevis pin in the pedal arm. I'm guessing it's 1-2 degrees beyond the natural freeplay. So, it's putting a little residual pressure in the lines once things expand. 666hp will not overcome these brakes. The fronts locked up and I had to do a burnout to get in the garage. :rofl:

Today I moved my shop over to the new house. I now have a 950 sqft main garage and 600sqft shop. I set the shop up the best I could and tore down the master cylinder. I found that the interference fit between the pushrod bevel and master cylinder piston insert was to tight. I ground down the insert .150 and shimmed it to fit after some measurments. Without the insert I only have .025-.030 interference fit which won't make me feel to good sailing it inot turn one at 80mph.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/05-30-10_2130.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/05-30-10_2128.jpg
I measured the angle available before depressing the piston and it was only 6 degrees. After making my adjustment it's roughly triple at 18 degrees. I'm estimating I only need 8 degrees to eliminate the problem. I think it's time for a new angle finder.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/05-30-10_2137.jpg
Only I would scratch up a polished master cylinder. :D Don't mind big red and the stripper in the back ground.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/05-30-10_2148.jpg
This picture sucks but it's my new shop. I don't know which camera is in my new office, old house, or new house, or a box. :willy: Man it's nice to have nearly a half acre to roam.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/05-30-10_2151.jpg

[GregWeld]

Hell with the car.... Nice SHED!

EEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAA


I don't understand why you'd have so much angle on the rod... is that what you had to do to get a 6:1 pedal ratio?

Also - most of the push rods I've seen already are ground with a slight taper...

Hey - the bright side!

You know you've bedded the brakes.

You know your brakes work really well

You know the bias is set a little to the front (as it should be)

Your neighbors now KNOW you're some kind of weird azzhole that is just a bit crazy and the ones that hate cars will leave you alone and the car guys in the hood will know you've arrived. :woot:

[Vegas69]

Thanks man, I'm excited about my new shop! I'm using the factory manual pedal hole. I don't need the 18 degrees, it's only around 6-8 degrees. The pushrod is actually ground beveled. The insert was just to long and not allowing enough wiggle room for my application. Should have her back on the road today. I just need to find a leg. Still seems to work the best when starting from scratch. I need to buy an air bleeder.

[waynieZ]

Sweet looking shop Todd. It looks like your buddy already settled in and likes it too. I'll keep watching and learning from your thread so I won't be totally lost when I do my brakes. Thanks for posting.

[tones2SS]

Very cool Todd. Congrats on the new home and workspace.:cheers:
Did you get your brake problem resolved?

[mfain]

Todd,

Nice shop! Ref. your brake issue, I ran into a similar problem with a "custom" pedal assembly in a race car. The pivot point for the rod was well forward on the brake pedal arm, which made the push rod very short. The shorter the rod, the more the angularity change there is as the pedal is pushed in. This guy was actually binding the rod in the back of the MC bore. We built a bracket (bolted to the brake pedal arm) that moved the pivot point aft and then used a longer push rod -- problem solved. In the "for what its worth" category - and probably overkill for most applications - the new Tilton 9000-series pedals are adjustable for pedal ratio and they use special master cylinders that actually pivot on bearings at the front of each MC. This keeps the push rod in perfect alignment with the MC bore centerline throught the travel. A little pricy -- $1300 or so for the pedals and about $350-$400 per MC -- but the ultimate in smooth brake application.

Pappy

[GregWeld]

Todd --

I bought an air driven bleeder a couple years ago -- handiest thing I've purchased in a long dang time...

Since most of my buddies are still working - they're not around when I need them... and I'm not waiting for anybody! LOL

[DFRESH]

Nice shop bro---that must be killer---looking forward to seeing it setup the way you like it---also looking forward to seeing the house---SEMA BBQ this year?

Dude, 3 days and we are on our way up the coast---yeeee haaaa!! (To kinda quote Greg)

Doug

[Teetoe_Jones]

Todd-

Take a look at the Phoenix Injector. (http://www.brakebleeder.com/) You pump fluid into the caliper forcing air out of the master.

Works great if you are a 1 man operation.

Tyler

[Bow Tie 67]

Todd-

Take a look at the Phoenix Injector. (http://www.brakebleeder.com/) You pump fluid into the caliper forcing air out of the master.

Works great if you are a 1 man operation.

Tyler

+1 I bought one of these two months ago, great tool, no air needed.

[Vegas69]

That bleeder is cool, I may just have to go for that. No time this time around though. I went out there early today and got the master bench bleed and reattached. It's already got a decent pedal without bleeding the brakes. I was out there all day and never got around to bleeding them out. Lot's to do, it's a perfect pad for the BBQ Douglas. Pappy, I never had any issues with the old master but I agree it takes a short pushrod with manual brakes on a 1st gen which makes it touchy. I'll bleed them out tomorrow night and take it around the lake. If it's good to go, I'll be heading to Cali Thursday. If there is still and issue, I'm out of time, energy, and energy. LOL Between work, two houses, changes to the new house, buddies having babies, blah blah blah :lol: Looking forward to it though! How's the weather looking?

[DFRESH]

Weather still good--upper 70's Friday through the weekend---the drive along the coast is going to be very nice it looks like. Lower 80's at Pleasanton Sat and Sun. I'm looking forward to the drive---need to unwind---bet you will enjoy the same with all you've got going on.

Doug

[Vegas69]

Sweet! I'm going to wish I charged my AC for the trip over!

[tones2SS]

How's the car running Todd?:thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

It's running great for a few blocks until the brakes lock up. :rofl: I didn't make the PCH trip to Pleasanton. I put it back together and still had the problem and threw in the towel. To many other things to deal with to give it a 3rd try. She's sitting in my new shop waiting for some love. May be a while. It was 110 yesterday so it's not exactly prime season around here.

[cdushane]

It's running great for a few blocks until the brakes lock up. :rofl: I didn't make the PCH trip to Pleasanton. I put it back together and still had the problem and threw in the towel. To many other things to deal with to give it a 3rd try. She's sitting in my new shop waiting for some love. May be a while. It was 110 yesterday so it's not exactly prime season around here.

Doesn't sound like your brakes wanna cooperate with you huh man? Guess I should of drug you out to party when I was in town and you could of let off some steam :unibrow:

[Vegas69]

No, and I'm not sure why. The piston rod seems plenty sloppy between the cyinder piston and retaining washer. Plenty of space between the pedal arm and brake switch bracket. I'm going to change out the rod to a plain pushrod that goes in the center.

Good luck dragging me down to the strip for an all nighter. Those days are behind me. :unibrow: and I don't miss them much. I'd rather sit on my patio and drink to my hearts content and crawl into bed.

[Woody]

It's running great for a few blocks until the brakes lock up. :rofl: I didn't make the PCH trip to Pleasanton. I put it back together and still had the problem and threw in the towel. To many other things to deal with to give it a 3rd try. She's sitting in my new shop waiting for some love. May be a while. It was 110 yesterday so it's not exactly prime season around here.

Todd,

I had a problem with my brakes locking up after a disc brake conversion. They would not lock up when the car was cold, but after everything warmed up they would lock up. My problem turned out to be not enough clearance between the master cylinder and the power brake booster. Go for a drive and when the brakes lock up, loosen up the mounting nuts on the master cylinder and see if the brake release. If they do, this may be your problem. I ended up shimming the master cylinder out some which solved my problem. Just thought I would bring this up in case it may be your problem as well.

[tones2SS]

That sucks about the continuing brake issues Todd.
GOOD LUCK man and keep us posted.:thumbsup:

[camaro1969]

hey todd,

which fuel regulator are you running?

[GregWeld]

Todd-

Take a look at the Phoenix Injector. (http://www.brakebleeder.com/) You pump fluid into the caliper forcing air out of the master.

Works great if you are a 1 man operation.

Tyler



Or just buy one of these.... super simple and it works.


http://www.amazon.com/Lincoln-Lubrication-Industrial-MV6835-Vacuum/dp/B0015POUXM

[Vegas69]

hey todd,

which fuel regulator are you running?

I run a simple Holley 3 port return style with 3/8npt.

[Vegas69]

Payback made it's first magazine appearance in Car Craft this month. I couldn't be happier since it's on the race track. This ain't no show car. :unibrow:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/CarCraft.jpg

[Ron in SoCal]

No body roll in that shot Todd! Looks like the suspension is adjusted to me...:thumbsup:

[ja.stoner63]

Now that is a sweet photo. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

I like it better when it's doing wheelies...:D

[waynieZ]

Congratulation's Todd. I'll have to go pick one up and check it out.The picture looks sweet.

[phillym5]

Thats sick. Nice Photo Todd!!

[awr68]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[67ragtp]

Congrats Todd, the car looks awesome!

Rich

[cdushane]

Congrats Todd, the car looks awesome!

X2!!! :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

Thanks bros...:cheers:

[War]

Yeah, It's alright I guess.....If that's what your into.

[tones2SS]

Congrats Todd. Killer car!!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[DOOM]

Way to go TOOOODDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:willy:

[BBC71Nova]

Congrats Todd!

[MWCC]

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/05-30-10_2130.jpg


My two cents on the master cylinder. I'm not sure what the manufacturer suggests in your case, but I don't like the piston insert in this picture. Every manual brake master cylinder I have installed has to have a longer push rod and no insert. The reason is the pedal will return faster than the piston at times and the rod can slip out of the rod bore can get caught between the edge of the piston bore and piston and lock up the brakes completely. I would try the long pushrod and no piston insert. You should be able to adjust the rod to get the pedal where you want it.

BTW.... I saw the article in CC this past weekend. Congrats

[camaro1969]

thanks todd, and congrats on your magazine debut, im surprised it hasnt won chevy of the century by now! :cheers:

[Ron Fox]

Looks like she's smooth and in the groove.:yes:

Congrates!

[Vegas69]

I think I'll have it framed for the new shop. Hopefully one of many in the future.

Appreciate the input Nick. I agree with you. One of my thoughts was also that the washer that needs to be between the C clip and piston was getting wedged. I have a stock long rod I just haven't made time to swap it out. It's 100 here and we just moved last weekend. Half the house is a construction zone right now as well. As soon as I get this house put together I'll be out there twisting wrenches.

[Vegas69]

My Marquez tail lights showed up yesterday. It's been a long wait but well worth it. These things are killer and fit great. Totally transformed the rear of the car.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/TailLights011.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/TailLights010.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/TailLights007.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/TailLights016.jpg
Now all I need is brakes... :lol:

[tones2SS]

Now all I need is brakes... :lol:

lollll....:lol:
They do look nice!! They make some killer products. Well worth the price if you ask me.
Car is looking killer Todd!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[GregWeld]

I really really like the PINK FENCE....
:D

[cdushane]

Amazing how one small change like that can make such a HUGE diffirence in appearance. Looks really good :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

I really really like the PINK FENCE....
:D

That's on the list..:unibrow: Not sure where the list is right now. :_paranoid

[g356gear]

Hey Todd, did they paint those up for you or is it anodized aluminum for the housings? LED? Traditional or Modern design?

[skatinjay27]

damn those look killer!!!! deff. a good call on the black anodized

[Vegas69]

Hey Todd, did they paint those up for you or is it anodized aluminum for the housings? LED? Traditional or Modern design?

They are anodized, 3D, traditionals, with back up lights. Definitely a special order hard to do deal.

[waynieZ]

The lights look sweet. I like the all their lights but I like the 3D's better. I love the plate. I tried to get mine with the flag back ground but Ma. said they didn't do them. Your car is so sweet.

[Ron Fox]

killer lights. Wish Marquez made them for the '69 Firebird.

Todd, what rear suspension are you running?

[GregWeld]

That's on the list..:unibrow: Not sure where the list is right now. :_paranoid

HEY..... I've been in this house for 5 years - and put in the pool and the shop etc... and they are JUST NOW building the pool house over the equipment --- you know -- the one that should have been built 5 years ago...
:rofl: :rofl:

[CG3D]

killer lights. Wish Marquez made them for the '69 Firebird.

Todd, what rear suspension are you running?

Ron...

http://www.marquezdesign.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=59

;)

The lights look great on the car Todd....glad you like them.

Chris

[Vegas69]

Thanks for making a quality piece Chris. Also a thanks to Frank at Prodigy Customs for giving me a great deal.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Awesome. I have a set of modern 3D in Black Anodize here for my black Street Racer. This motivates me to install them

[ja.stoner63]

very clean rear end, spoiler looks hot!

I wish my garage was that clean.:bow:

[Rybar]

Lookin good as usual Todd. :thumbsup:

I agree with Greg, gotta give the pink gates some of that Camaro love too :lol:

[monza]

Looks killer! Makes the chrome bumper shine ha :_paranoid

...keep the pink fence, it's like a security thing, who would break into a 'guys' garage with a pink fence?

[Ron Fox]

Ron...

http://www.marquezdesign.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=59

;)

The lights look great on the car Todd....glad you like them.

Chris

Thanks Chris.

[96z28ss]

...keep the pink fence, it's like a security thing, who would break into a 'guys' garage with a pink fence?

You make a good point, although it could use a fresh coat of brighter pink.

[Vegas69]

Guys, it's clearly mauve.:rofl:

[mdprovee]

Todd,

Your car keeps getting better and better. The lights look great.

Now like everyone says, time to work on the "mauve" gate. JK

[MWCC]

Guys, it's clearly mauve.:rofl:



I'd say its more of a Salmon color myself.:P

[GHOSTDANCER]

The MONEY shot :thumbsup: :bow: :cheers:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/TailLights011.jpg

[GHOSTDANCER]

The gate however :_paranoid

http://ih1.redbubble.net/work.364176.5.flat,550x550,075,f.pink-flamingo.jpg

:lol: :lol:

[Vegas69]

Payback is a bitch.:unibrow:

[DFRESH]

Uncle Taco, lights look killer. Marquez stuff is the best for sure. Congrats on the pic in Car Craft---great shot---looks awesome-doing what it does best--and looks like a show car doing it. Wish you would have had it Gingerman event---bet the competition would have seen you in the mirror--probably chasing you!!

Doug

[Ron in SoCal]

Todd - Love those lights! I've got a set on order myself. I saw a 69 @ OC GGuys w your same lights and a black painted rear bumper. Looked awesome...

[GregWeld]

Uncle Taco, ---bet the competition would have seen you in the mirror--probably chasing you!!

Doug


HUH?!?!?! DOUGIE, You been into the Apple pie down there buddy?!?!?!?

[tones2SS]

The MONEY shot :thumbsup: :bow: :cheers:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/TailLights011.jpg

Not only does this car look KILLER, it kicks some serious ass on the track. :wow:
Very nice Todd. CONGRATS!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[Payton King]

I like the blacked out look

Just got back from Motor State. I ran the XP10's on the front and the AX6's on the rear. With street tires it was pretty fabulous once they got warm. To lazy to change them out and drove them on the street and did the autocross with them....not so hot. AX6's front and rear for street driving and autocross are way way better.

[pavell]

i just read the whole payback project thread in its entirety. WOW.

i really respect that car. you did a great job with it; i love the look.

[Vegas69]

Thanks man, the car has come a country mile. Sorry about all the bull ****. :unibrow:

[pavell]

and more importantly your driving the piss out of it! so sick!

[tmadden]

Not only does this car look KILLER, it kicks some serious ass on the track. :wow:
Very nice Todd. CONGRATS!:thumbsup: :cheers:

This is a Hot AZZ shot!!! You should be proud

[Spiffav8]

Car just keeps getting better and better. The tail lights are a very nice touch. Looks awesome.

Can't wait to get home and see all the new upgrades.

:thumbsup:

[bigtyme1]

Considering this car gets beat up on the track it's looks incredible Todd. Maybe this year we can hook up in Vegas. I may be staying for a whole week anyway. Buy the way you got a two car garage?

[Vegas69]

I gots me a 4 car garage plus shop space. 1550 sqft pegs me out. Your car is safe at my place.:thumbsup:

[bigtyme1]

I gots me a 4 car garage plus shop space. 1550 sqft pegs me out. Your car is safe at my place.:thumbsup:

I'll be in touch soon

[bonecrrusher]

Car looks badass.... I just finished up reading all 165 pages... lol.

All Aluminum big block power... cant beat that!

Any opinion on the GoPro HD?

The quality looks pretty good, the Aussie guys that brought over there HSV Maloo's where using Contour HD.

Just looking for your thoughts on it.

[Vegas69]

Thanks, I've been happy with the go pro minus the battery life. I ran a local autocross and forgot to charge it for the El Toro event. I got one baer speed stop challenge. I'm still pissed I didn't get the road race. Of course you know all this since you read my thread. :unibrow:

[bonecrrusher]

Is it a lithium ion battery?

Sad its going to take some CNC l92 heads and a blower to make your power level.... :hail:

[Vegas69]

I'm not sure, it's only chargable through the usb cable. Everybody is so LS happy now. The beauty of my big block is it's predictabilty. It's the monster torque curve that makes it such a great racer. Sure I need a few more cubes to out gun these LS guys but I have 666hp and 641 ftlbs of predictable power on tap at all times. It's a really light package to boot. Not the most economical or easiest way to skin a cat but it's definitely on the same playing field as the best LS builds.

[waynieZ]

Todd I saw a cigarete light charger for a Garman GPS that connects to the usb cable . Maybe they make one for the Go Pro or maybe that one will fit? Just a thought.

[skatinjay27]

Todd I saw a cigarete light charger for a Garman GPS that connects to the usb cable . Maybe they make one for the Go Pro or maybe that one will fit? Just a thought.does it come with the gator clip option?:rofl: ;)

[Vegas69]

Thanks for the generous write up Rupp..:thumbsup:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/CamaroPerformers.jpg

[Vegas69]

Third time was the charm. I finally tackled tearing the master cylinder back off and switching brake rod style. I was experiencing residual pressure in the brake lines. It turns out you can't use a 7/8 Wilwood master pushrod with a 1". Why is honestly still beyond me... I was able to put about 50 miles on the car between last night and this morning. Damn it's hot, I need to charge the AC. The brake pedal is a HUGE improvement. It's the high and hard brake pedal I've been chasing since day one. During normal street driving it's very confidence inspiring. I tried to simulate race conditions and there is still knockback but not enough to require pumping the brakes. In fact, the knockback doesn't take me as far as the 7/8 pedal travel was normally. Clearly I need to get this car on the race track but I'm a happy dude!:woot:

This was the first real drive with the new BFG KDW's. I'd say they are noisier than the R888's. The feel of the car is slightly different but nothing I can't tune out. I was able to punch it in 2nd gear at the lake and it hooked. That's a good sign.

[Matt@BOS]

Glad to hear the new setup is working for you. Just curious, but how much pressure do you have to apply to the pedal to get the thing to stop? Do you have to stomp on the pedal more than with the 7/8" or about the same, save for the fact that the 1" doesn't have that squishy feel towards the top of the pedal.

Also, I've got a random question for you. Did you use the DSE half height body mounts? I ask because because my car is sitting so damn low it is getting impractical and its near impossible to twist the coilovers up any farther.

Matt

[Teetoe_Jones]

Also, I've got a random question for you. Did you use the DSE half height body mounts? I ask because because my car is sitting so damn low it is getting impractical and its near impossible to twist the coilovers up any farther.

Matt

He did. He won't again. It causes.... Issues.

Tyler

[Vegas69]

I like it alot better so far. If I we're to guess, the pedal is about 15% -20% harder. Let me get a race and more miles under my belt. The pedal ratio is 12:1 for a manual brake set up in a 69. Most reccomend a minimum of 8:1 for a manual set up with the proper master cylinder. I personally feel the 7/8 is undersized for the caliper piston volume. I wish I would've done this 2 years ago.

Tyler is correct, I did use them. Thanks Frank. :lol: My only regret at this point is not slicing the tunnel for more trans to tunnel clearance. When I had the old steel block in the car I also had the coil over adjusters as high as I could physically get them. (Small block springs) I was able to back them down a turn or two for the aluminum block. I thought them LSX motors were light? :lol:

[tones2SS]

Very cool Todd!
Congrats on the ink!:cheers:

[GregWeld]

Good to hear Todd!

Funny -- when we were at RTTC -- I talked for awhile with the Wilwood rep there. His statement rings very true - which was - "some people really like a high hard pedal a 1" M/C gives and some like the softer more modulated feel of the 7/8". He said he personally liked the "feel" of the 7/8... but it doesn't matter as well as it's what YOU like!

[Vegas69]

I don't have any choice if I want a decent pedal. Yes, I like it very much. :unibrow: This whole big lip, 335mm, race car, blah, etc, blah, forces it. Most guys can get away with murder. I can't because I push the limits!:lol:

[awr68]

He did. He won't again. It causes.... Issues.

Tyler

Yep! Me too! Had to raise the trans tunnel .75" to fit the T56......

[awr68]

Glad you are finally feeling better about the brake system Todd...these things can take some time! :cheers:

[Matt@BOS]

He did. He won't again. It causes.... Issues.

Tyler

I nominate you for understatement of the week, sir. every little issue I have now seems to be related to those stupid bushings. They do make the car look very cool though.

Todd, apparently my little LS is more of a boat anchor than your ZL1. I'm currently shaving fiberglass off of Tyler's prized inner fenders when going around hard turns. Maybe I need to make an upgrade in the engine department, hell the sound alone would be worth it. :unibrow:

Matt

[awr68]

I nominate you for understatement of the week, sir. every little issue I have now seems to be related to those stupid bushings. They do make the car look very cool though.

Todd, apparently my little LS is more of a boat anchor than your ZL1. I'm currently shaving fiberglass off of Tyler's prized inner fenders when going around hard turns. Maybe I need to make an upgrade in the engine department, hell the sound alone would be worth it. :unibrow:

Matt

Matt, can't you go with a 1" or so taller coilover....or just a longer spring alone if you are running out of adjustment? It too me a couple trys to get it right with the desired ride height when I modded the stock frame with a DSE kit. If I remeber right I had three sets of springs before I nailed it!

Are your lower control arms level at your current ride height?

Now back to PB!!

[Vegas69]

I nominate you for understatement of the week, sir. every little issue I have now seems to be related to those stupid bushings. They do make the car look very cool though.

Todd, apparently my little LS is more of a boat anchor than your ZL1. I'm currently shaving fiberglass off of Tyler's prized inner fenders when going around hard turns. Maybe I need to make an upgrade in the engine department, hell the sound alone would be worth it. :unibrow:

Matt

I'd be surprised if you would coil bind the springs spinning them up higher. I bet you only need a turn or two. You can get a rough estimate by measuring the distance between all the coils and available shock travel. You may need a mechanical advantage. Take off the wheels and get some more leverage on them with a wrench or short pipe. Running low has it's compromises. I'll take a compliant package over looking cool anyday. Find a ride height that works well on the track and street and record it. It's normal for your car to have settled out.

I wouldn't trade my big block for an LSX. Not in a million years.:unibrow:

[89 RS]

Todd, I'm a little behind on the site and getting caught up now. The new house/garage looks awesome, great space. The taillights look great and congrats on the ink in the mags. :thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

Matt, can't you go with a 1" or so taller coilover....or just a longer spring alone if you are running out of adjustment? It too me a couple trys to get it right with the desired ride height when I modded the stock frame with a DSE kit. If I remeber right I had three sets of springs before I nailed it!

Are your lower control arms level at your current ride height?

Now back to PB!!

Yeah, I might end up going with a taller spring. I don't think we took the wheels off last time we tried it, which sounds stupid in retrospect, so we'll try that first.

Now, as you said, back to Payback. I don't want to clutter Todd's thread with too much irrelevant info... a little bit is fine though :lol:

Matt

[Vegas69]

Nothing to earth shattering to report but I figured I'd update the thread. It's no secret it's a little hot around here this time of year. :unibrow: I've had the A/C plumbed and wired for months, I just haven't got around to charging it. I have an old buddy that has a shop close to the new house with a 134 machine. I drove it over early one morning and sucked it down for 45 minutes and it held vaccum. Sweet, we put the 1.8lbs of refrigerant in and one of the hose crimps didn't hold at the compressor high side. Thanks for letting me borrow your crimper Weld! So I need to redo that hose. Like I told my buddy John, if it took the first time something had to be wrong with the world that day. I just laughed and drove it to work since I was a little behind schedule that day. Which leads me to my next tall tale. I forgot I had a hair cut before going to the office. It's about 105 degrees at 10 AM and I come out with my new ICE MAN haircut and my Ray Bans of course. Why won't my car start? Oh ya, it's flooded out. It decided to heat soak. I finally got it fired after about 10 minutes with my phone ringing off the hook thinking why did I drive this car to work? :rofl: Of course it never was a problem before. This was really the first time in the sweltering heat with the new engine. I dropped the floats 4 flats and it will start now right away.

I went out and ran an autocross Saturday night at the Silverton hotel. This autocross made Good Guys look like the Daytona 500. I'm not kidding when I say my car wouldn't turn sharp enough to even think about competing in this deal. In fact I got DNF's the first 2 runs for not making a turn. Me being the Chad Knaus of the household, I decided to make some "set up" changes because I knew it was going to be tight. I changed the sway bar and the front shock settings. It was also my first race on the street BFG's. I'm not going to sugar coat it, the car was looser than Greg Weld's mouth. It would've been a great drift car. Wait, I was sideways pretty much the whole run every run. :thumbsup: I got my but handed to me by about half the carsin the field. I'll tell you what I learned, I won't take my car back to the Silverton to run an autocross. Maybe I'll buy a go kart for the next go around. I could probably make that 15 foot hair pin turn that way. :rolleyes: I almost forgot, I didn't need to pump the brakes with the new 1" master cylinder. Knockback is still present but it was managable without any pumping. We'll see how she does on the faster tracks and road course.

I had more fun on the way home, the car is running great. :D I really don't feel any forward bite differences with the new tires. They hook pretty good. I'll reserve my judgement when I get my old setup back under the car and I run a real Autocross at Las Vegas motor speedway with turns for real cars.

THE END

[GregWeld]

Thanks for letting me borrow your crimper Weld! So I need to redo that hose.THE END


You'll need to read my "signature line".... part of it might apply. :rofl: :woot:

[tones2SS]

Very cool Todd! No pun intended.;)
(Did you say ICE MAN haircut and Ray Ban's?!:_paranoid :lol:)

[Flash68]

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/val_kilmer.jpg

[ProdigyCustoms]

Big difference from the R888 to street tires! Biggest difference is once it gets loose it won't recover like it did on R888, with street tires, once they are loose, they are loose. Those R888s keep looking for traction. kinda fun to drift it though!

[Vegas69]

I'll reserve my judgement until I get to a venue where I can test the car. They warn with a squeal where I don't every remember the R888's doing that.

[Ron Fox]

Big difference from the R888 to street tires! Biggest difference is once it gets loose it won't recover like it did on R888, with street tires, once they are loose, they are loose. Those R888s keep looking for traction. kinda fun to drift it though!

Frank, do you recomment the R888's over anything else?

[ProdigyCustoms]

R888 are real soft and last only a few miles. They are sticky. For a street tire the KDW is a bargain.

[Vegas69]

For as few miles as we do, I think they are a great choice. I had a couple thousand miles on mine and 6-8 races and they had great tread left until my race at El Toro. The burnout I did really cinged them and I flat spotted them a little in the speed stop challenge. I bet they will last a good 10k in street only use. The only reason I switched was due to all the events being 200 treadwears. Ideally I'd like to have a spare set of wheels with Hoosier A6's for autocross. :yes: Those babies are like bubble gum.

[conekiller13]

I loved the triple 8's as an autocross tire for My STi. Great grip, great response, good feed back and two seasons with three drivers. Wouldn't expect more than 7k street miles though.

For the street I say go with what ever is cheap and fits. If your looking for that much grip on the street, take it to the track before you hurt someone.

[Vegas69]

You could put bias plys on an STI and it would handle. Those STI's and Lancers are ridiculous. Everytime I ride in one it makes my go hmmmmm.

[Vegas69]

She looks good with her numbers...
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/39826_435119459608_321624339608_4473787_8287907_n. jpg

[BritishGreen68]

She looks good with her numbers...
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/39826_435119459608_321624339608_4473787_8287907_n. jpg

you ever think about throwing an RS grille in? Im sure you have your reasons for not, but I bet it would look good anyway!:D

[Ron Fox]

So basically the R888's are racing tires?

Lucky #7's Todd. :D Car looks good.

[tones2SS]

She looks good with her numbers...

Todd, your car looks killer with or without numbers bud!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[Vegas69]

you ever think about throwing an RS grille in? Im sure you have your reasons for not, but I bet it would look good anyway!:D

Hell no...:D

[DFRESH]

"Looser than Greg Weld's mouth"----:lol:

You sittin up at night to come up with those gems or what---'

Love the pic of "Ice Man" that Dave put up--that took me back--had that same cut in college--chicks dug it---

Was the course you were running made for import cars only or something? Never thought I would hear Payback got a DNF---musta been way, way tight.

Great news about the knockback bro--hopefully it will work just as well when you are out at the larger track.

Doug

[Vegas69]

I hadn't even cracked my first beer. :unibrow: It was ridiculously tight. The DSE sub doesn't give a real tight turning radius. In fact a U turn at a stop light is challenging. Our Tundra turns sharper than the Camaro. She wasn't bread to run on a go kart track anyway. ;)

[Ron Fox]

I hadn't even cracked my first beer. :unibrow: It was ridiculously tight. The DSE sub doesn't give a real tight turning radius. In fact a U turn at a stop light is challenging. Our Tundra turns sharper than the Camaro. She wasn't bread to run on a go kart track anyway. ;)

Is there a certain reason about the DSE sub that makes it tight? Or is it similiar to stock?

[g356gear]

Is there a certain reason about the DSE sub that makes it tight? Or is it similiar to stock?

I am going to say front tire width has a part in that. It would probably be great with a standard 8.5" rim and a 245 tire.

[ironworks]

It may also be the rack travel vs the steering arm length. The Vette spindle has long steering arm.

I would also think you have enough power to just turn it right around. Tanner Foust style. :D

[GregWeld]

It may also be the rack travel vs the steering arm length. The Vette spindle has long steering arm.

I would also think you have enough power to just turn it right around. Tanner Foust style. :D

^^^^^^^^^^ What he said...


Stomp the brakes - crank the wheel hard over - stomp the gas.... nuthin' to it. :rofl:

[Ron Fox]

It seems a larger wheel/tire would have a cause and effect situation.

Can the rack travel and steering arm be adjusted or replaced for a better turning radius?

I like Gregs solution...turn, gas it, and hold on! :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

Nothing like a Monday morning quarterback.:unibrow: My car turns lock to lock with a 275mm and no rub. It wouldn't turn any tighter with a 205. I agree that a compromise had to be made to do what I just mentioned. Take a look at Shane's first run here. It's really about a 210 degree turn. His 10 Camaro turns much sharper than mine.
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NB_PsYB9SD8&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NB_PsYB9SD8&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

[Ron Fox]

What is the largest tire a DSE sub can run comfortable? What is the best size to run on the track?

[Vegas69]

Chevys........:question:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineInspection040.jpg

[War]

LS motors

[GregWeld]

Chevys........:question:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineInspection040.jpg

You break it already??

If it ain't broke -- you didn't run it hard enough... :rofl:

[Vegas69]

I set out to do a maintenence valve adjustment and found that all the valves were way out of spec. I found an intake at .040 and the spec is .014. Big blocks with solid rollers are known for eating lifters. Jason Pettis(My engine builder) recommended an inspection due to the lash. By the way, I have nothing but the utmost confidence in Pettis. He's there and cares. It's the best engine I've ever experienced. I tore it down and can't find a damn thing wrong. The cam is smooth and the lifters looks good. The rocker push rod cups look to be the most worn. I just don't understands where .024 went on my loosest intake. I guess it could be a sum of things. The weird thing was it wasn't noisy or running bad. It was a maintenence adjustment. I'm going to send the photos to Jason and take his recommendation. Right now it looks like I can put it back together and lash the valves.

With a aluminum block and heads, the lash actually increases by .012-.015 due to the expansion of the block and heads. On an iron block/iron head engine the valves can actually get tighter. Iron block/aluminum heads only grow a little. To set the valves cold requires only around .005 and that is a chore. It's like slipping a wet noodle into.....

Yes, a solid roller big block is more maintenence than a LS. I'll take my ZL-1. It's just a love afair. One day I want to slap the bitch and the next I can't believe how damn good she makes me feel. :D

[GregWeld]

Guess that's why there's that old saying... high performance comes with a high cost...

Ya run 'em hard - things break or go wonky.

People unfamiliar with drag racing always ask "why do they tear apart the engine after every run"....

BTW --- working with a .005 feeler gauge would be a total pain. Might as well just pull a hair out of your head and use that. :rofl:

I was out at a buddies shop - they were doing break in dyno on a big block... a real nice motor... loading her up at about 3000 rpms and all hell breaks loose. It ate the distributor gear. Never seen that - or ever talked to anyone that did (other than bronze gear wear)... Sh*t happens!

[tones2SS]

Guess that's why there's that old saying... high performance comes with a high cost...

Ya run 'em hard - things break or go wonky.

How very true Greg.
Good luck Todd.:thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

It's always better to error on the side of caution. I've got to much money invested in this engine to take any chances. In hind sight, I should've lashed the valves a couple times since I installed the engine. Especially after the EL Toro beating. A hydraulic cam would be much less maintenence but I like spinning this baby to 6800. :thumbsup: Right now I need to decide if I'm going to send the lifters out to Isky and have them upgraded from the Red Zone's with needle bearings, to the EZ Rolls. I'll probably use up the life in these, and have them rebuilt down the road. When Jason built the engine, he had good luck with these and had heard of one bad experience with the EZ Rolls. He hasn't heard anything negative since. I'm going to send him some photos and go from there.

[89 RS]

Sucks Todd, I'm sure you'll get it to where you want it to be.

[Vegas69]

Right now I'm heavily leaning towards the engine block and heads finding their sweet spot together after many heat cycles and the parts getting broken in together. I was contacted by a guy on Chevelles.com and he said it's not unusual for an aluminum block engine to take multiple heat cycles to set in it's ways. I just don't see any other possibilities at this point.

[Flash68]

Chevelles.com

You traitor. :willy:

Seriously tho, how often should one be checking valve lash for a solid roller deal?

[Vegas69]

It really depends on the car and mileage but I'd say every few months. You'll know once you check them. If they are tight after 500 miles then go to a 750, etc. If one valve is overly loose it's an indicator of a problem and can save you a catastrophic failure. I'll be keeping a closer eye on mine. Jason reviewed the photos and it's going back together this week. I have a race next Sunday so I'll be out in the garage a few nights this week. :thumbsup:

[1in1969]

My brother has an OutLaw 10.5 car, conventional headed (1995 Bowties) and a Donavan block, twin 94's. We have been as quick as 4.32 and as fast as 177.6 We pull the covers and check lash anytime we make a hit, no matter how far we go into the run. saying that, I know that it is somewhat of a different situation as yours but you said that if you checked them at 500 miles and they were good, go to 750 for the next check, I would hesitate to use this approach, it will not hurt to check them after every race at the least. Please don't think I'm trying to get into your hen house, preventive maintainence and constant babysitting will go a long ways, erroring on the side of caution is not a bad thing in this area. Shawn

[Vegas69]

I agree it's better to be safe than sorry. You are talking about apples and oranges though. An outlaw 10.5 car is going to have some wicked open and closing ramps compared to my cam. Like me, he'll have to figure it out with time. Better to error on the side of caution until you figure out a reasonable timeframe. After a road race I think it's advisable.

[1in1969]

Yeah, you're right, apples and oranges in a way, but it is still fruit. i.e. aluminum block and heads with high expansion rates, critcal valve lash. It is something that we watch constantly, these things cost way too much not too keep a close eye on. You also have a stud gridle, where He has shaft rockers, so yours are more of a pain to adjust, not that His are any fun! Shawn

[Vegas69]

Ok boys and girls. I'll be representing the local SCCA www.lvrscca.com at the www.superrun.com in Henderson, NV. The show runs Friday-Sunday. I'll be there every day.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc.jpg

[awr68]

Will you be trailering it there................:P


Actually that's pretty cool!! :)

[cdushane]

Sounds like your gonna have a good weekend :unibrow:

[mdprovee]

Have fun Todd, and glad you are back on the road.

[tones2SS]

Have fun Todd. Show'em what "Payback's" all about brother.
Car looks great!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[waynieZ]

Thats sweet Todd congratulations. Enjoy!

[Flash68]

Sweet pic of the car. Looks evil.

Hopefully you'll get some more video of it in action for us!

[skatinjay27]

yeah i gotta hit that show every year!
I'll call or text when Im heading out there so i know where your car is....

[Vegas69]

Cool, I'll be there every night keeping the beer vendors in business. I'm getting ready to throw a coat of Zaino on after dinner. This car is black everywhere. :unibrow: Hitting five thousand cones at last Sundays autocross hasn't speed up the process. Luckily cone rash comes right off.

[GregWeld]

You car is bad ass.....

Must be the half height body bushings? Ya think? :rofl:

[GM Muscle]

Ok boys and girls. I'll be representing the local SCCA www.lvrscca.com at the www.superrun.com in Henderson, NV. The show runs Friday-Sunday. I'll be there every day.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Rttc.jpg

Hands down the best looking car i can think of!:hail:

[tones2SS]

I'm getting ready to throw a coat of Zaino on after dinner.

Zaino = the balls. That's pretty much all I use. Stuff is great.
Good luck in the autox buddy.:thumbsup: :cheers:

[Vegas69]

Thanks guys. :cheers: After 5 hours of cleaning and polishing last night, I had to take a few photos at the crack of dawn. She's at the show in a nice spot. Hopefully it will be there when I get back. :lol:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/SuperRun2010022.jpg

[68400BIRD]

WOW!!! Killer picture. Looks great.

[GHOSTDANCER]

One of my favorites. Looks pissed off :thumbsup: :cheers:

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/underwire/images/2008/10/27/payback_time_final.gif

[skatinjay27]

damn i dont think ive seen those wheels that clean since they were brand new!

[1in1969]

Car looks really good Todd. Shawn

[Rybar]

Those pink gates look pretty sweet too :lol:

[67ragtp]

Todd- The car looks KILLER!

Is your front bumper urathane or steel?

Rich

[g356gear]

Thanks guys. :cheers: After 5 hours of cleaning and polishing last night, I had to take a few photos at the crack of dawn. She's at the show in a nice spot. Hopefully it will be there when I get back. :lol:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/SuperRun2010022.jpg

Frank did an Ok job getting that car straight huh?:unibrow:

[Vegas69]

Thanks :cheers:

The bumper is steel.

Them gates are mauve, not pink! :unibrow: Trust me when I tell you, they are getting changed to a earth tone. I bought the house from an older gentleman. :D

AJ, you're right. I never wash the car. I usually detail it since it's such a pain in the ass to wash a black car. After you wash it you have to detail it to the 9th degree. All I have to do is drive it to the gas station and it's already dusty anyway.

The boys at Prodigy did get it nice and straight. They put the perfect paint job on it for my intended use. To use it! She still looks sweet.

Can't say I've ever seen the car with a better stance. I do need to move the rear end back since I made a pinion angle change. It's adjustable. I hate to say it, put a fork in it. :rolleyes:

[srh3trinity]

I really like your car with both wheel setups. The paint is spectacular (or at least it photographs well)

[monza]

So nice!:cheers:

[89 RS]

Lookin' sick Todd. :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

:cheers: Car was a huge hit today. My favorite comment of the day. "This guy really beats the hell out of his car" He saw me out at one of the local SCCA events recently. I started to walk away to come home and just couldn't leave my car overnight.

[skatinjay27]

Can't say I've ever seen the car with a better stance. I do need to move the rear end back since I made a pinion angle change. It's adjustable. I hate to say it, put a fork in it. :rolleyes:
funny you say that, that was one of the things i noticed when I first saw that picture (in my head) "damn she sitting perfect now"

[tones2SS]

Car looks killer Todd. Very nice. One of my faves for sure.:thumbsup: :cheers:
Not only does it kick ass on the autox, it shows awesome as well.

[GregWeld]

To steal a line from someone around here...



"It's okay... if that's what you're into".



:rofl:

[Matt@BOS]

Hopefully it will be there when I get back. :lol:


You left you're car there? And all this time I had you pegged as one of the pro circuit car show guys that has got a lawn chair, a cooler of light beer (drinking one poured into a plastic car show mug of course), and maybe even a tent.

Matt

[awr68]

Well he does have a nice trailer....that I'm not sure he has even used yet? That right there is proof that PB isn't a trailer queen! Oh wait....didn't you go to CA with it to RTTC?

Great car my man!! :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

I left it there all day yesterday and brough it home late last night. I dropped it off at 7 this morning. I'm definitely not that into car shows. Now the cooler full of light beer would be nice, but they changed the rules and it's illegal down there this year. :mad: I seem to have unique taste. I should say, we have unique taste. If the public actually voted, I feel our type of car would fair well. With the majority being attendees, I don't think we can expect to place in a regular car show. That being said, that's not why I'm there.

I did trailer the car to RTTC. Road racing is just a little to risky.

[coolwelder62]

Todd are you going to Dallas for the goodguy's.We might be going.

[Vegas69]

Naaaah, that's to far to go to a car show and run on a go kart track. :D

[coolwelder62]

I was thinking you might want and try to quafiy for optima.

[Vegas69]

My last shot was the Silver State Classic. I've been so damn busy in every facet of life lately. I didn't feel like taking the time off and spending a grand to run in the 105 class at Silver State for a potential gimme into the challenge. I still hope to run this year. If not, I'll qualify next year. :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

When I swapped over to the BFG KDW's I also made a major pinion angle change to deal with some harmonic vibration issues in a 200 rpm window in 5th gear at 85-90mph. Anyway,that pinion angle change caused me to make some spring collar adjustments. The first time I drove the car it felt like an alien to me. I'd spent so much time dialing in the car and feel with the R888's and that pinion angle and ride height. I'd lost that loving feeling.

Thinking I'm Chad Knaus, I also make some major shock setting changes in anticipation of the different tire compounds. The car felt loose on the street. It wasn't until I autocrossed last weekend that I realized the car was waaaaaaay out of whack. I mean it was out of control. I went from outrunning the ESP champ 2 races in a row to the back of the pack. It was just impossible to drive. Loose big time front and back.

I decided to start from ground zero and borrowed a set of scales. http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=28700&highlight=payback
After going through all the steps in the subject thread, plus unhooking the sway bars and setting all four tires at equal pressure tonight, I was able to accomplish a 51.7/48.3 front/rear blance and a perfect 50% cross weight balance with me in the drivers seat. The original readings didn't seem that far off but they ended up being off kilter. Think of it as a chair with one leg that's to short. The other three corners were holding up the weight. I ended up dialing an extra 6.75 turns into the LR. When I changed the pinion angle, I had to take a bunch of turns out of the rear coil overs to get the stance right.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Scales001.jpg

Once I had the car set up, I reconnected the sway bar and went back to a neutral shock settings front and back to start from scratch. I also made a rear sway bar adjustment. I took her for a ride tonight and all I can say is WOW!!!!!:D This car has NEVER felt this good before on the street. I feel the BFG's have more forward bite than my R888's. The car felt phenomenal. I can't wait to get back on the race track and back in the drivers seat. :thumbsup: All the countless hours and work has paid off.

[GM Muscle]

Naaaah, that's to far to go to a car show and run on a go kart track. :D

boo on that. i was looking forward to seeing your car.

[Flash68]

That must be a good feeling Toddski after all the countless hours of tweaking.

No, not that kind of tweaking. :_paranoid

[awr68]

Thats great to hear, Todd! :thumbsup:
So you like the BFG's?

[Vegas69]

As most of you know, Larry Callahan at Pro-Touring.com picked me to represent his site at the Optima Challenge this year. Larry and I have been working on another aspect of this whole deal and when he texted me that morning and said do you want the spot? Hell yes! I didn't even think that Lateral-G may have an entry as well. I've been looking forward to this opportunity for a long time. Thanks Larry!:cheers:

You know me, I can't just leave the car alone. I've got a few top secret tricks up my sleeve that I'll be implementing over the coming weeks. :unibrow: I've got the car up on jack stands giving it a thorough inspection right now. The to do list is pretty short by my standards. I should probably have the paint rolled out by a professional to be under the Sema lights. I haven't decided on that yet. That's last on the list. Performance is first. I've got one high speed autocross to run at the speedway next Sunday. I hope to dial the car in there for the Optima Challenge. It sure would be nice to get back on the road course before hand, I just don't see that in the cards right now.