Project "Payback" [Archive] - Page 4

Vegas69

09-26-2009, 04:27 PM

I woke up at 5 AM today and loaded half the garage up in Kelli's truck. We headed for Spring Mountain at about 6:15 AM. It was a really gorgeous morning and the sunrise was almost mars like in my rear view mirror. Just a really great 75 mile ride. I didn't have much to do but torque the wheels and adjust the rear shocks before the race. The first time out I was sandwiched inbetween a boat load of cars and really had no where to go. It was so slow that my lap times were a full minute faster in the second heat. The second run I decided to wait until it had started to go out and give myself some room. The race was black flagged right when I got in my car! Luckily I ended up with some space to RACE!

Let's start with the good first. :D The car really really surprised me. :yes: It really stuck to the track well and the handling was fantastic. The brakes I conintually whine about were actually really good on the track. Once they get a little heat in them they work great. I still liked a quick pump before the corners but it wasn't really needed. The motor ran really strong and I never saw the oil pressure drop below 25psi in the corners. I'd say the accumlator is working well. It was around 90 degrees in the first run and almost 100 in the second. :faint: Water temps hit 210 and stayed there. I really don't know how hot the oil got. I shot the oil filter and it was 200 and the oil pan was bewteen 210-250. Hot enough I would say.

The bad: I lost almost all my power steering about 3 laps into my first run and it came back a little and was notchy as hell. The second heat I was running way faster and pushing the car. It once again lost most of the power steering and at the end of the heat the front seal on the pump puked some fluid. The pump is junk. It was ok on the way home but still a little notchy here and there. I work out alot and trying to steer 275mm R888's around a road course is like arm wresting super man.

All and all a great day that was cut a little short. I just need to buy a better power steering pump from turn one. I ended up running the 4th quickest lap of the novice group. I suppose 15-20 of the 30-40 cars has transponders.

Here are some photos and video Kelli took for me.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/RoadRacing2Fav.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/RoadRacing2010.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/RoadRacing2Fav1.jpg

Two cars ahead of me went off the track and I'm telling you it was like being in the closet with the lights out. It was like days of thunder man. I slowed way the hell down and putted through the cloud of dust. Check it out!
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/RoadRacing2Filthy.jpg

Vegas69

09-26-2009, 04:29 PM

The video quality is pretty bad. I gave Kelli a ton of crap but she actually did pretty well since it was really hard for her in the places available. There really isn't any action of my fastest portions but you get the drift. Triple digits were definitely in play big time. We ran 3.2 miles and the other end was the fast portion.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rSZKezURFNc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rSZKezURFNc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RE44zx1UZAY&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RE44zx1UZAY&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Last but certainly not least, the victory donut!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9LKoe2VVd7E&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9LKoe2VVd7E&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

It was definitely a "watch this" moment!

tones2SS

09-26-2009, 05:13 PM

Sounds like a good day Todd. So new steering pump is on the list, I take it.
You must have crapped yourself when the 2 cars wiped out in front of you. I can't believe how much dust collected on your car because of that.
Glad you and Payback came out ok.:thumbsup: :cheers:

camaro2nv

09-26-2009, 05:16 PM

Man thats soo cool. My guess is you'll be back soon. Man Im jealous!

98ssnova

09-26-2009, 05:54 PM

looking good bro i enjoyed the you victory vid very nice:cheers:

phillym5

09-26-2009, 06:14 PM

"Yeah.. HOT ROD!!" lol.... Looks like a fun time. The Camaro sounded real good. :thumbsup:

Spiffav8

09-26-2009, 07:52 PM

and there it was. :lol: Looks like a great day despite the little steering pump issue.

:thumbsup:

DFRESH

09-26-2009, 08:01 PM

Congrads Todd--very cool. Next time will be even better i'm sure.

What gives on the P/S pump? Was it a stocker--just wondering why the failure--did the fluid get to hot perhaps?

Doug

Vegas69

09-26-2009, 10:20 PM

It was definitely overheating of the power steering fluid. I'll research some pumps and probably end up with a cooler. I can't say I didn't expect and issue, but not in 3 laps. The car really was getting it! After trying to muscle it around a some corners, I fully understand why that stock type 2 pump said f u. LOL

Great day Curtis. Wish I could've run a few more full bore laps but I knew it was a shake down run since I had planned to run an autocross event and honestly wasn't fullly prepared for the road course.

I will say that the pavement was absolutely perfect out there today. It was a thrill to run on that road course. I really hadn't even come close to memorizing the course. If only I could get rid of the redneck gene.

waynieZ

09-26-2009, 10:26 PM

Nice Todd it looks like it was a good day glad you and Payback came through ok. Looks like a fun time.

89 RS

09-26-2009, 10:41 PM

Looks like you had a good time. Bummer about the steering pump, but I guess you'll get that taken care of...Thanks for sharing Todd.

rogue

09-26-2009, 10:56 PM

Glad you had a good time, definitely hot for track days. You hooked yet? :lol:

Shame about the power steering, I'm sure it'll be sorted out quickly and before your next time out.

Theres a group going to buttonwillow at the beginning of October if you're interested. I'm going to try and make it out and a few of the guys from the other form are as well. I think Steve's bringing Penny out and a few others...

http://www.ncracing.org/events.php

camcojb

09-26-2009, 11:08 PM

that's great Todd, you looked good.

Jody

Flash68

09-27-2009, 01:27 AM

Looks like a lotta fun Todd. Looked like a tightly packed course there.

I work out alot and trying to steer 275mm R888's around a road course is like arm wresting super man.

[/IMG]

:lol:

68protouring454

09-27-2009, 07:38 AM

todd, call i think its mark at turn one, the way they build there pumps, they run way cooler, i have a turn one pump on my ls1, and it has integral reservoir and i have not had any issues, however once you drive on track alot, its wise to change fluid every 350-400 laps.
nice job,
as you saw in the spin the importance of being smooth and letting the car react before you do, things can get unsettled very quickly.

nice job.

Vegas69

09-27-2009, 08:38 AM

I'm glad I found the edge right at the end of my day. I think I had a little to much rear brake in the car as well. Right at the end of the longest back straight the car started to get loose under heavy braking. I'll dial a couple turns of back brake out of it next time. It's amazing how quickly you don't realize just how fast you're going. The car has a bunch of potential. I need some serious work. I'll call Mark at turn one tomorrow. Thanks for the heads up. The track was way to crowded for my taste. The first heat the car behind me was getting a little closer than I would like. The second heat gave me a real taste for road racing, the car, and track. It was a blast man!

68protouring454

09-27-2009, 12:32 PM

best thing to do is mess around on street with brake bias, get it close, then dial in AS much rear brake as you can till rears lock up before fronts, then go half turn back. i always do this at each track and keep notes for different tracks, as well as tire temps, pressures etc.
for example at nh, because of more right hand turns, i pre set right rear pressure to 27 and left rear to 32, both end up at 36-38 hot, but tire temp readings told me i needed to adjust.

Vegas69

09-27-2009, 01:50 PM

It's funny because I've played around with it on the street and never locked up the rears first. The heat really changed the feel in a good way. It may have been due to getting into the corner to hot and starting to lock up a front as well. Next time I hope to have more time to play.

68protouring454

09-27-2009, 03:06 PM

slow in fast out... especially with the weight on the nose of your car, always get your braking done before turn in, if not susp will be very unsettled. kinda like in the spin.
whens the next track event?

Vegas69

09-27-2009, 03:19 PM

That's great advice and my best corners were with early braking and easing on the throttle squeezing the pedal off the turns. I just got a little greedy trying to show off. Car has good traction out of the corners. Next will probably be driving school.

rogue

09-27-2009, 03:19 PM

How was Spring Mountain? The facility looks like a nice country club....

Vegas69

09-27-2009, 03:26 PM

The track was really nice. It's a 5 star resort so to speak. The minimum membership is 15k and you still pay to race everytime. You should definitely come over and run it with me sometime.

rogue

09-27-2009, 03:43 PM

The track was really nice. It's a 5 star resort so to speak. The minimum membership is 15k and you still pay to race everytime. You should definitely come over and run it with me sometime.

Interesting, I didn't know they ran the country club business model there. I've seen a few events held there, but I find that idea fascinating. I know VIR is modeled that same way. I've heard its a real fun track. Will definitely have to get out there one day. Vegas doesn't offer me much any more considering I don't drink any more and don't gamble, so this may be the one thing left in Sin City for me. Something for me to do while my friends are nursing hangovers and trying to pick up the pieces. :lol:

If you have a cheap older point & shoot camera lying around, you can use it for track footage to record your sessions. I use a Canon Powershot with a 4gb memory card on a cheap $20 mount from amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Panavise-809-Camera-Window-Mount/dp/B000246ST6?tag=amaz98-20

Video footage is a great way to review your sessions, see where your driving needs work, and its fun as hell to have. Its a cheap solution to the $299, gohero problem, but it works on first gen windshields.

Glad to hear you had fun and weren't turned off by your first time out there. It scares some people. Sliding and sometimes off the track is part of the fun, and you'll be a better driver being able to deal with those circumstances.

Keep me in the loop on driving school. I've been eyeballing the Skip Barber 2 day Mazda driving school up at Laguna Seca for a while now. I think learning in a momentum car like a miata would benefit us greatly, and keep us out of the throttle more, and focused on driving the car properly. I know I have a tendency to muscle my way around the track, fighting both the car and my tires. Maybe a road trip with 2 69 first gens up to Laguna Seca is in order. Could be a fun time. :cheers:

Vegas69

09-27-2009, 04:21 PM

That's a good idea and the video was shot with a canon elph. I'll definitely be more prepared for my next track day. How much is the Laguna class? The only thing that scared me was other cars. That dust scenario could of been a bad deal. Luckily I had run away from that Porsche in my rear view mirror. :D My spin across the track wasn't exactly great either. It won't keep me from running the car though. It was just overcrowded at this event in all but the pro class. Hopefully the next event I attend won't be so overcrowded and I can run with cars that are more evenly matched. I feel with just a few more laps that I can run with the intermediate class after looking at there time slips. It was also a practice day so that probably contributed to the overcrowding. Power steering pump has to go on right away and an oil cooler before the next event.

Rybar

09-28-2009, 12:22 PM

Nice work Todd, looks like you are doing a fine job sorting the car. Wish I had a track like that close by.

tones2SS

10-03-2009, 04:27 PM

Hey Todd, any new updates? New power steering pump or oil cooler?:cheers:

Vegas69

10-03-2009, 04:49 PM

awr68

10-03-2009, 05:44 PM

Well at least you're not bored!!!!! :willy:

Lenie

10-03-2009, 11:33 PM

Man I wish my car was driveable. I'm also looking for a trailer, preferably a 24' 09
and free:lol: Car looks great Todd. Keep em coming,

DFRESH

10-04-2009, 12:41 PM

Power steering pump is on it's way from turn one. I'm also switching over to synthetic power steering fluid. I'm adding a water pump bypass hose that will hopefully solve my intermittent air pocket that likes to belch and make a mess of my clean engine compartment. That means redesigning my payback plate. I retuned the carburetor with the help of an old veteran by resetting my throttle plates and tweaking the idle mixture screws by ear. It's cured 95%l of my tip in problem. I'm adding a custom distributor bushing that will allow 26 degrees of initial timing. That may completely eleminate the stumble or I'll add another 1/8 turn to the primary side. I'm seriously considering a hydraboost setup right now as well! Oh yeah....looking for a full size truck and car trailer. Nothing going on around here! :cheers: :_paranoid

Todd, so is it necessary to run a power steering fluid cooler? I was hoping to take mine out soon to an open track day, but don't want to find out the hard way that the fluid is not going to take the heat. I run synthetic now through my type II pump, but the pump is a stock AGR type II. I know Dane (Rouge) had told me before that he has run his car almost near stock and still had a blast--guess there is only one way to find out. Tell me when you are coming down this way for Willow Springs, Button Willow--I am hoping to arrange some dates in the next two months to get mine on the road course at one of these locations.

Vegas69

10-04-2009, 12:57 PM

Opinions vary on a cooler. The beauty of a turn one pump is it displaces the same amount of fluid at 1300rpm as it does at redline. The problem with a stock unit is that it progressively pumps more fluid with rpm and the pressure relief valve blows off the pressure. All that excess pumping creates heat. Jake at Jakes rod shop is running one without a cooler so I'm hoping not to need one. My pump got so hot that the hose barb adhesive melted and caused a leak. I'm going to a 10AN fitting on the new pump. Of course theres always a compromise. Pumping pressure is lower than factory under 1300 rpm. So it may cause some hard steering at idle. Nothing a blip of the throttle won't cure. I'll let you know what I think. You're running a steering gear so I'm not sure how you'll do. Only one way to find out! I'm pretty sure I've found the right truck, now I just need to find the right trailer. I'll be down your way with the car eventually. Just depends on how soon I get my car ready and trailer set up.

DFRESH

10-04-2009, 01:01 PM

Vegas69

10-04-2009, 02:05 PM

I'll probably be there but won't be part of the event.

Flash68

10-04-2009, 02:26 PM

I'll probably be there but won't be part of the event.

Not that with that attitude you won't! :P

I thought you were a back-up in the event someone can't make it, which I would think is highly possible?

awr68

10-04-2009, 02:28 PM

So now it's a trailer queen? LOL just kidding!!!!!!!!! :P
I know this car get lots of street use and now track use...can't beat that!! :thumbsup:

awr68

10-04-2009, 02:32 PM

So what truck are you looking at? Enclosed trailer?

Flash68

10-04-2009, 02:32 PM

So now it's a trailer queen? LOL just kidding!!!!!!!!! :P

:lol: Yeah I was waiting for someone else to take that lob pitch.

Vegas69

10-04-2009, 03:36 PM

I've got no love as a back up for the Optima challenge. I'm looking at a 2007 Tundra and still searching for a 24' trailer. If only it were that simple. I'm selling the ol's Tacoma and my motorcycle and atv trailer. I can fit my quad in the back of a fullsize and never use the cycle trailer anyway. I have just enough room to park a 24" on the side in place of the other two.

Trailer queen:lol: Running a road course is a true beating on your stuff. I came to the realization after running last weekend that it wasn't very smart to drive to a road course and expect your car to make it home everytime. :unibrow: If you're not breaking here and there, you aren't trying. I also want to make some trips to events in California and all over the SW and that means tools, jacks, compressors, oil, blah blah blah. Not to mention, where do you park the car at night? It's going to afford me the convenience to really enjoy the car as intended at a small cost. I'll have to come up with a couple grand after selling my trailers and the ol want's a new truck so I'll make her comfortable payment wise and be ready to play for around $7500.

awr68

10-04-2009, 04:06 PM

Todd, the '07's are the beginning of the good/usable trucks. I had a '06 DC w/ 4.7L that I used for work and to pull my 25' travel trailer (6000 lbs loaded)...it did ok, but not as good as a '07 with a 5.7L would do! A few months ago I traded it for a '07 2500 Ram QC Hemi and love the truck...WAY better performance and stability over the '06 Tundra! Still want a Cummins, but it simply didn't fit the budget!

Best of luck with the sales and purchases!! :cheers:

Vegas69

10-04-2009, 07:58 PM

Thanks Tony....I got out and tore down the right side of the engine. While I thought it was the elbow that leaked, it ended up being a failure out the rear of the pump. The fluid was a little nasty. I turned the wheels back and forth forcing most of the fluid out of the rack. Now that I have it tore down this far, I'm thinking it sure would be easy to plumb in the oil cooler lines down the drivers side pan rail and order that new ron davis radiator. The prolbem is my next race is 2 weeks away.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/002-6.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/006-2.jpg

tones2SS

10-05-2009, 11:27 AM

Damn Todd. Too bad you didn't have "extra" time on your hands. I bet you could do pretty good turning out some nice pro-tour cars for customers. You got the skills/know-how.:thumbsup: :cheers:

tmadden

10-05-2009, 04:36 PM

Can someone tell me if Payback has a G-link or G-bar please?

Vegas69

10-05-2009, 04:41 PM

Modified G Bar.

tmadden

10-05-2009, 05:00 PM

Modified G Bar.

How is it modified please?

Vegas69

10-06-2009, 09:35 PM

Well, I've taken the project back a step. I decided to start over from scratch.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/DSC_0112.jpg

I can't believe this was just 2 years ago! That happens to be Emptynest that's going up for auction Saturday as my stablemate!

Vegas69

10-11-2009, 03:47 PM

It's been a busy few days. Flew into Phoenix on Friday morning and bought a 2007 Tundra limited at a great price from a private owner. I just happened to run across a 24' trailer in the Laughlin area and said what the hell. Here is my new rig to run the car around the US! Now I just need to sell two trailers and a Tacoma! :rolleyes:
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g235/ToddAkes/Trailers007.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g235/ToddAkes/Trailers009.jpg

eville

10-11-2009, 05:32 PM

70rs

10-11-2009, 08:18 PM

Nice work Todd!! Now you have it all dialed in. Very cool. That trailer looks like a blank canvas. Any chance of a "Payback" paint scheme or logo?:thumbsup:

skatinjay27

10-11-2009, 08:47 PM

Nice work Todd!! Now you have it all dialed in. Very cool. That trailer looks like a blank canvas. Any chance of a "Payback" paint scheme or logo?:thumbsup:
that ends up just being a big sign to crooks (look what i got in here!)

man todd your living the dream!:thumbsup:

Vegas69

10-11-2009, 08:51 PM

Exactly....plain white it will stay. I'm living it up, that's for damn sure! I've been very lucky in many ways.:thumbsup:

jack67rs

10-11-2009, 09:08 PM

You were in Phx? call me next time if you got the time. maybe you can haul your car down for the Goodguys Show in Nov. or March.

70rs

10-11-2009, 09:14 PM

that ends up just being a big sign to crooks (look what i got in here!)

man todd your living the dream!:thumbsup:

Very good point AJ! I had not thought that far as you can tell.
Nice rig and set up either way!!:thumbsup:

awr68

10-11-2009, 10:05 PM

Good for you Todd!! Looks like you got just what you wanted!! Even the DS door!
Have you loaded Payback in it yet to see how it tows loaded? How about some inside pics of the trailer?

Vegas69

10-11-2009, 10:27 PM

You were in Phx? call me next time if you got the time. maybe you can haul your car down for the Goodguys Show in Nov. or March.

A good buddy of mine lives in Arcadia and picked me up. I just didn't have time to mess around since I was in town for about 24 hours. Partied like rock stars Friday night and it was a long drive home. :D I'll defiintely look you up next time and good guys is a real possibility.

I just got the new power steering pump on tonight and almost have it all buttoned back up. I have an autocross Sunday but will be driving the car to the event. I'll be adding some cabinets and so on to the trailer. The floor is checkered and kind of beat up but it has a winch with an extra long cable that is pretty cool. I'll get some photos soon! :thumbsup:

DFRESH

10-11-2009, 10:31 PM

Todd, congrads on the truck and trailer combo!!!

Quick recommendation if you haven't already thought of it;

get a winch for the trailer if it doesn't already have one (mine has saved me more than once when the race car expired). Plus, it's nice to be able to just winch it in.

I think the DSE sub comes with a tow hook already on it--if not, get one on there---it makes it much nicer to get in and out with the winch. Mine is removable which makes for a clean setup.

Do you have any pics of the inside of the trailer?

Doug

Vegas69

10-11-2009, 10:37 PM

The tow hook is on the mile long list of things to do around here. I'm going to mount one to my two bumper to frame bolts and extend it through the opening below the bumper. I put a set on the rear shock mounts before the first road race. After watching cars be towed in I decided backwards was probably not the best option. It will sure make it easy to wratchet down the ass end of the car in the trailer though.

tones2SS

10-12-2009, 09:30 AM

Congrats on the new "toys" Todd.
Now all the more reason to push Payback a little rougher/tighter on the road course! Very cool.:thumbsup: :cheers:

waynieZ

10-12-2009, 07:17 PM

Sweet rig Todd. Glad to hear you found something so soon that you liked. They say that side door is great to have. Good Luck with it.

Flash68

10-12-2009, 07:21 PM

Todd, you are only missing a race team and pit crew now. Nice stuff bro.

monza

10-12-2009, 09:19 PM

Nice work on the new truck and trailer, they look great.

Why not the DSE tow hook? Seems super simple.

Where to first??? Your so lucky to live near so many race tracks....

Just getting ready for the long winter up north here. However maybe I'll see ya soon?

Vegas69

10-12-2009, 09:33 PM

Thanks boys, I didn't know DSE made a tow hook for the front? I'm so buried in selling crap(2 trailers, truck, and real estate) that I haven't even thought about the first trip! Hell yeah Dave, let's do it.

Vegas69

10-15-2009, 12:07 AM

I'm back on the road as of tonight. I couldn't just replace the power steering pump. I had to make a couple other changes.

The turn one pump wasn't up to my standards cosmetically. It looked like it was painted, then assembled. I got some high temp aluminum type paint and think it turned out pretty damn nice. Almost to nice compared to my cast accessories. Anyway, the pump is working fine. I like the finish so much, I wouldn't mind painting my block this color. I also now have AN connections on both ends of my feed line with matching hose to my oil, fuel, breather hoses. Turned out really nice.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/002-7.jpg

I've had an intermittent air bubble since I've built the car that belches and makes a mess. It's happened after 5 miles and after 75. I found that plugging off the hose from the intake to the water pump is more than likely the problem. I did it for cleanliness and so I could use my Payback plate. The purpose of the hose is to allow the water to circulate through the block while the t stat is closed. It's also supposed to prevent water pump cavitation while the stat is close. To end a long story I couldn't just use hose clamps and some cheap fittings. I had to buy stainless fittings and shrink clamps. Turned out pretty cool. Now I just need to redesign another plate and the march plate will go on for a while. The plan is when I go to my Ron Davis radiator to go 16AN hose and fittings on both radiator hoses.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/003-7.jpg

Always chasing the best drivability with a holley carb. I found a guy that makes custom advance bushings. I tried the largest but it locked up my advance which I don't want. I had to pull the distrubutor to get that little booger out once it locked up the advance. It afforded me the chance to check my distributor gear wear. I had a bronze gear failure about 900 miles ago which was the wrong gear installed by my engine builder. The new melonized gear looks perfect. Anyway, I installed the second largest aluminum bushing which allows me 23 degrees initial timing with 36 total. Car like all the initial I can give it. I had the largest bushing from MSD which is 18.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/006-3.jpg

So I'm ready for my autocross Sunday a few days early which is nice for once!

Vegas69

10-18-2009, 08:48 PM

Just finished up a fantastic day. I ran my third autocross today. It was a pretty special day due to the fact that I broke the 3,000 mile mark on the way to the track today. I also took down my first super car. I out ran a Nissan GTR and ended up 22nd out of 101 cars at the event. I rode with the driver of the GTR and that thing is sick! It feels so good to outrun corvettes, porshes, bmw's, spec miatas. To say I'm stoked is an understatement.

I did it with lousy ass brakes. This manual wilwood setup is "junk" on the autocross. I was using rythmm and engine braking. I used the brakes twice on each run. Once in the middle of the track and the finish line. Both required a quick pump. So I got the GTR with it's traction control, awd, and abs with basically no brakes. :D I'm going hydraboost and I'm pissed to be honest.

I finished off the day taking the long way home through the Lake Mead recreation area and just relaxing doing 65 in 5th gear. Here are a couple horrible videos. I bought a camera mount at best buy and it was junk. I'm buying the go pro before my next event. At least you can hear my rythmm and engine braking. It gives you an idea of the wild ride she was on. :rofl: The whole ceiling deal had me rolling when I downloaded them, she's like what? If you have a sensitive stomach I wouldn't watch!
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OTTYZCkF7r0&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OTTYZCkF7r0&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8QG59JQZ_jw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8QG59JQZ_jw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

70rs

10-18-2009, 09:23 PM

That's awesome Todd! Sorry to hear about the brakes, but it sounds like overall it was great!:cheers:

And yes, the videos made me a bit queasy. LOL!!

GregWeld

10-18-2009, 10:16 PM

Todd...

I was smart enough - after reading your warning - to grab my puke sack before clicking the play button...

YEP - you need a better mount!!

Fun to watch though - and glad to hear you finished pretty dang well!

BTW - I run the Wilwood 7/8" master - manual - with big Baer disc - my car weighs 4023 lbs -- I have brakes that will slam you out the front window...

awr68

10-18-2009, 10:21 PM

I think I'm car sick!!

It sounds great though! And congrats on the good finish!!

waynieZ

10-18-2009, 10:37 PM

Dramamene, works every time. lol Looks like a wild ride, and plenty of fun. Glad everything went well and you had a good time.

DFRESH

10-18-2009, 10:40 PM

Todd--happy to hear you got the power steering worked out. Did you notice any diff at all in the steering just by the addition of the pump and syn fluid?

Are the brakes different than what you had when you were out at Pahrump?

Doug

Vegas69

10-19-2009, 08:01 AM

The steering feel seemed a little different with the new pump. I'm running the shocks with a little more compression out back so that may be causing the difference in feel on the street. Worked fine on the track but so did the old one. This was just an autocross.

The brakes are OK on the street and good on a road course. Keep in mind on an autocross you have a slalom and many corners in different directions quickly. It causes the worst brake pad knock back imaginable. If you have never autocrossed your car, then you may have a problem. On the road course you have long straights and a chance for a quick pump between corners. It also builds more heat and they love that. I really like autocross and can't live with these brakes........... The real problem is fluid volume. That little 7/8 piston can't push enough fluid to push back the caliper pistons without an excessive stroke. I can't go any larger on a manual system. I also can't tighten up my axles any more reliably and my front C6 bearing packs are as tight as can be. Greg, these will pop your eyes out of your head as well, but just not with a consistent brake pedal.....

GregWeld

10-19-2009, 08:22 AM

I hear ya on the pad knockback....

It may be that the floating caliper is a better application than the fixed (Wilwood) version for THIS application (Auto X)...

I spent a bunch of time with knowledgeable brake people - the factory reps at Brembo - Wilwood and Baer... My questions were always around one factor - DO I NEED A POWER BOOSTER of some kind... given a two ton car... and relatively high power. They all asked me if any of the race cars out there used power brakes... and that answer is NO. So that is why I went with the 7/8" Wilwood manual master cylinder. BUT I have Baer brakes which are floating calipers...

I would think that the larger the rotor - the more knock-back would be applied - as a small movement would be magnified by the diameter of the rotor. So NOW I'M WONDERING if a simple 2 # residual valve wouldn't "help". This would keep 2 #'s of 'pressure' (check valve) on the line...

Maybe the guys at KORE3 would have some ideas??

Vegas69

10-19-2009, 08:28 AM

I agree the floater would be a much better option. I am running a 2# now and it made no difference. It's just not enough to move a caliper piston. I have all this money tied up in these calipers and e brake setup. A hydraboost will be cheaper but will I be happy with it? Guess I better do my due diligence. There has been talk of a 10# residual and that wouldn't bother me on a track car. But I do drive it alot of the street and that worries me a little.

GregWeld

10-19-2009, 08:31 AM

Makes me wonder what The Pozzi's would run... or what Steve is running on Bad Penny etc.

Vegas69

10-19-2009, 08:35 AM

Makes me wonder what The Pozzi's would run... or what Steve is running on Bad Penny etc.

I was thinking about that the other day....I may be doing a little detective work in a couple weeks. You in?:unibrow:

GregWeld

10-19-2009, 08:41 AM

I will post this - you might have read it already - but as usual - "others" here may not be as familiar with all of this - and these forums (IMHO) are best used for LEARNING lots of stuff - even if it doesn't directly affect "us"...

This is a link to StopTech - and a page on KNOCKBACK...

In the short read -- they offer some "advice" -- and in the end... their advice for a STREET driven TRACK CAR is to get used to tapping the brakes!! :lol:

But here it is - because it offers solutions to think about - and it's a good read.

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_knockback.shtml

tones2SS

10-19-2009, 09:09 AM

Good to hear you had a good day except for the brakes Todd.
Glad the power steering worked out. Your car is sick. It must have felt awesome outrunning those other cars out there!
Keep up the great work.:thumbsup: :cheers:

Vegas69

10-19-2009, 10:47 AM

Thanks Greg.....my problem is that I experience is putting around town as well. Not severe but noticable. I'd say 1 inch pedal change on the street and almost to the floor on the autocross.

GregWeld

10-19-2009, 02:08 PM

Thanks Greg.....my problem is that I experience is putting around town as well. Not severe but noticable. I'd say 1 inch pedal change on the street and almost to the floor on the autocross.

WOW!! That's just scary....

So here's the 64 dollar question -- if it's the knockback that is 'causing this -- what good would it do you to install a power adder... When going to the floor etc is a fluid / fill / recovery issue rather than not having ENOUGH pressure once you overcome that problem?

Just talking out loud here....

Vegas69

10-19-2009, 02:24 PM

It would allow me to run a larger master cylinder piston needing less pedal stroke to push the caliper pistons back out. I found out Moser changed bearing manufacturers today. I'm going to get a new set from napa and do a little investigating. If I get motivated, I'll pull an axle tonight.

Payton King

10-19-2009, 02:54 PM

emails on this very subject. After speaking to Ron after he changed his to the electic/power brakes, all of his problems went away.

I think my problem is my masters are on the verge of being too small so the knockback that I am getting is amplified due to the small volume of fluid. When I go up in size (master) the pedal is too heavy and I can barely get the car to stop to my liking.

I am making the move to power brakes very soon. Going to the DSE booster route as my motor makes plenty of vaccum. Gotta love an LS motor

Maybe I have gotten old and soft, but I love the brakes on my wife's M3 convertible. If I had to do a full 20 minute session on a track that had a lot of braking zones I would be worn out mentally and physically with my car...and I go to the gym. I am on the Corvette Forum almost everyday, and the guys that are tracking their cars are all running power brakes with the factory ABS. They are upgrading to different calipers and pads.

Rupp WAS using the same wilwood set-up with the 7/8's Wilwood master.

On a side note: I purchased a set of Wilwood "B" pads and they were unbelieveable. If I could run those all of the time I would not change a thing, unfortunately, they are noisey, hard on rotors and very dusty. We all know how expensive the Wilwood rotors are...

GregWeld

10-19-2009, 03:00 PM

Are all your brake lines 3/16"? AND you BENCH BLED that master prior to installation?

I still can't believe how many people DON'T do that... and then P and moan about their poopie brake performance! That and they run 1/4" lines... so the pressure you make with the smaller diameter master - is eaten by the larger diameter lines (total fluid volume in the system)...

I ASSume you're running an adjustable prop valve.... which (IMHO) are almost useless given our tire sizes... I'm sure that will cause a big argument now - but I think they're useless because of the TIRE SIZE BIAS we've already dialed in... Our rears are larger diameter - and fatter to begin with... add a bit of nose dive/weight transfer... and the fronts are locking up first.

Vegas69

10-19-2009, 03:11 PM

Yes and yes. There's not one air bubble in one brake line! Pedal is great as long as you go straight. LOL

GregWeld

10-19-2009, 03:29 PM

Yes and yes. There's not one air bubble in one brake line! Pedal is great as long as you go straight. LOL

I knew that - but I "ask" because OTHERS read these threads - and the question might get them 'on board' with diagnosing their issues (if any).

I've never tracked my Nomad - so I might have the same issues you're having... and just don't know it!

I've got Wilwoods on the Minotti... but it's still a work in progress - but I'm most definitely planning on tracking that car!

waynieZ

10-20-2009, 08:55 PM

Todd how did the trailer pull with the car in there?

Vegas69

10-20-2009, 09:58 PM

I haven't pulled her yet Wayne. Hope to soon....

Vegas69

10-20-2009, 11:10 PM

Found some video....car looks good! Rear sway bar may be in my near future. This should make up for those other videos..:D
http://s694.photobucket.com/albums/vv304/bridgidmasters/Autocross/2009round13/?action=view&current=MVI_4874.flv
http://s694.photobucket.com/albums/vv304/bridgidmasters/Autocross/2009round13/?action=view&current=MVI_4865.flv
http://s694.photobucket.com/albums/vv304/bridgidmasters/Autocross/2009round13/?action=view&current=MVI_4863.flv
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/IMG_4851.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/IMG_4867.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/IMG_4898.jpg

70rs

10-20-2009, 11:24 PM

Good luck with the brake issue Todd. The car looks great out on the track!

I know you went over this somewhere back in this thread but I didn't find it after a QUICK search. If you don't mind answering again what wheel and tire combo you are running on the track. Brand included please?
Thanks!:cheers:

Vegas69

10-21-2009, 08:26 AM

GregWeld

10-21-2009, 09:26 AM

tones2SS

10-21-2009, 09:27 AM

Awesome Todd.
Glad you had fun. Thanks for posting those other videos.:cheers:

70rs

10-21-2009, 05:29 PM

Thanks man....I'm running a Forgeline ZX3R with titanium bolts, brushed outer/matte black center. The widths are 18x12 and 18x10 with a 335/30/18 and 275/35/18. Extremely happy with the combination. I just want to add that these videos are from the first heat and I picked up a full 3 seconds towards the end of my last heat with a best of 45.3...

Thanks Todd!

That is awesome to pick up a full 3 seconds! It sounds (and looks) like you are really getting it dialed in.

That is what I am looking forward to. The build is one thing, but getting to tweak it and try new combos/set ups out really helps keep the intrest going. Some guys can't do that themselves and that's ok, but I think it is a lot of fun and that they are missing out on a key part of the hobby by not learning how to wrench on their own cars.
Thanks for posting all of the info from your tuning. It's going to help a lot of us on our own cars.:cheers:

Vegas69

10-29-2009, 10:42 PM

I recieved my new Moser 33 spline axles with tapered bearings tonight. How foolish to think I'd be cruising tonight. :rofl: The are machined wrong for my brakes and ultimately backspacing. The bearing needs to move towards the axle flange. They are only .100 off but I'll either need to find a local shop that can turn down the axles another .1 or send them back to Moser. Driving to the Optima challenge isn't looking to promising to say the least. The good new is there is NO end play now. I also have the updated Wilwood plates pictured that were redesigned with a taller lip and thicker material. They were nice enough to send them to me for free fo rall my trouble in the past.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/006-4.jpg

70rs

10-29-2009, 10:47 PM

No chance of getting the car on the road with enough time to get to the challenge? At least you got the plates and axles now. Good luck with getting it together Todd!:thumbsup:

Vegas69

10-29-2009, 10:54 PM

I'm not going to pay to overnight axles just to drive out there. It's not like I'm racing. I could stick the old axles back in but I already removed the axle seal on the passenger side since the tapered bearing are lubricated with gear oil. If it happens, it happens. I decided to save myself a few bucks by using the wilwood plates vs. the currie plates pictured on the old axles. Of course I measured to make sure the tolerance was the same. I would've needed to pay to have the old bearings pressed off and the new tapered bearing pressed on. I'm interested to see why Moser machined this set differently. Stay tuned...

70rs

10-29-2009, 11:06 PM

Hey , wait a minute. You are already in Vegas, the sun should be shining. Good excuse to ride the bike huh? ( I look for ANY reason to get on mine...:D )

Vegas69

10-29-2009, 11:10 PM

Good idea!

skatinjay27

10-29-2009, 11:32 PM

Good idea!
NOOOOO!
thats a bad idea;) :lol:

give garth a call at L.E.P im pretty sure he can hook you up with someone to machine those down this week.

Spiffav8

11-01-2009, 10:35 AM

Todd,

Post up that pic you are using as your avatar. I need it for my screen saver. lol

Vegas69

11-01-2009, 11:10 AM

Well Moser stepped up to the plate and said the axles must have been machined wrong. They are going to cover shipping both ways and new bearings. I quadruple checked measurments and they will go back for have an additional .095 shaved off them. It's a week each way for shipping plus a week for machining. I put it back together yesterday so I can drive it in the meantime. I just happended to have an extra axle seal in my spare parts box. This is the best time of year and I don't want to miss the optima challenge in the car. So I'm back in business and swapping axles isn't that big a deal.

Hear you go Curtis.......I can send you the original for higher resolution if you want.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/3-1.jpg

tones2SS

11-01-2009, 12:52 PM

Hear you go Curtis.......I can send you the original for higher resolution if you want.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/3-1.jpg

I'll take one in high res as well, Todd. (If, you don't mind of course.) I already have one of your pics as my desktop background right now.:yes:
THANKS bud!:thumbsup: :cheers: :cheers:

Spiffav8

11-01-2009, 05:45 PM

Thanks Todd. Yeah if you want to e-mail me a high res copy that would be sweet. Need more pics for the new screen saver. Apparently my current one with all the bikini girls isn't work friendly enough...though lots of people seem to stare at it for hours on end. LOL

DFRESH

11-01-2009, 06:46 PM

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/3-1.jpg[/QUOTE]

Money shot right there---

Glad to hear you did the right thing and are going to bring the car out

Doug

Vegas69

11-18-2009, 06:28 PM

I've got my tow hook fabricated and ready for paint. I drew up a sketch and stopped by my trusty water jet guy. I alos cut the spacers and ground them down to size. More work than it looks like! I have a new spoiler on the way and will notch it. My current is broke on the passenger side anyway. It will be fire engine red. I'll post up some photos when it's done.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/TowHook002.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/TowHook005.jpg

Stuart Adams

11-18-2009, 08:20 PM

Cool car.

tones2SS

11-19-2009, 09:51 AM

Cool car.

I agree Stuart. One of my favorites for sure.:thumbsup:

waynieZ

11-19-2009, 01:56 PM

That picture DFRESH posted the paint looks awesome arrow straight too. Nice job on the tow hook.

awr68

11-19-2009, 05:45 PM

Nice work Todd!!

tony byram

11-19-2009, 07:04 PM

That car is beautiful! Laser straight! Kudos on the paint! :thumbsup:

Denvervet

11-19-2009, 10:24 PM

Todd
I must have missed what prompted you to switch to a new tapered axle bearings.....and new axles. What is the advantage to those bearings?

Vegas69

11-19-2009, 10:31 PM

I'm getting mild brake pad knock back on the street and wicked knockback on the track. Tapered bearings are designed to take a side load better. The axles showed up today and I'm racing next Sunday so I'll report back my experience.:thumbsup:

Vegas69

11-25-2009, 10:40 PM

Finally recieved my new spoiler and was able to install my tow hook after some drilling and notching. I'm diggin it!
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/009-3.jpg

I decided to start really fine tuning the car. I bought a larger front sway bar and also purchased an adjustable rear sway bar from Frank @ Prodigy. The new front bar is installed but the rear won't make it on for the race Sunday. The end links won't work for me due to my fuel lines so I'm using some custom bracket and my own end links yet to be determined. My goal is to loosen the car up some when I autocross.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/001-5.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/005-4.jpg

My new tapered bearing moser axles came back in after they were re machined. They fit perfect with my brakes now but one of my studs got boogered up in the lathe so I had to swap out one stud. Of course I had the axle bolted in when I noticed. :mad: They are in and the brakes are back together. She's almost ready for the race Sunday.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/003-8.jpg

DFRESH

11-25-2009, 10:56 PM

Sweet man. Tow hook looks great---I hope it only gets used to put car in and out of "your" trailer. You gotta put up pics and video of the event this Sunday---like you wouldn't--but just making sure you follow through. Happy TG.

Doug

Vegas69

11-26-2009, 09:01 AM

You bet buddy. Just happen to have a new go pro hd camera. Happy Thanksgiving.:cheers:

GregWeld

11-26-2009, 09:15 AM

You bet buddy. Just happen to have a new go pro hd camera. Happy Thanksgiving.:cheers:

Yeah... So Todd.... that Go Pro is really only interesting to US if you point it at the track not at your face...

:rofl: :rofl:

Have fun Sunday. I emptied the dog bowls of water when I went to bed last night - and again this morning in order to feed them... so that's like 2" of rain in 10 hours. :( I'm so jealous of the winter weather and 'use' of your car!

tones2SS

11-26-2009, 01:56 PM

Very cool.
The spoiler and tow hook look good. Nice job. Give that track hell on Sunday!!:cheers:

66LS7

11-26-2009, 02:05 PM

The tow hook looks great. I am jelous though, in WI. we are putting cars away & your getting to go racing. I saw your car at Optima Invitational & looks awsome.

Randy(D&Z Customs LLC.)
[email protected]
1-262-347-9741

Vegas69

11-26-2009, 06:58 PM

Thanks Randy!

waynieZ

11-26-2009, 07:06 PM

Looks good Todd, glad to hear it went well with the axle's . Give them hell Sunday.

Flash68

11-26-2009, 08:58 PM

nvr2fst

11-27-2009, 01:08 PM

Sweet Todd. This had to be my favorite thread that keeps it on topic and provides useful, informed detail of new upgrades and constant tuning and what is working and what is not. Great thread man. Keep it goin.

x2
Todd how much room do you have left by the fuel lines. Are you making your own end links?
Who painted your car?

tones2SS

11-27-2009, 02:08 PM

x2
Todd how much room do you have left by the fuel lines. Are you making your own end links?
Who painted your car?

(I may be wrong and if I am I apologize to Todd.) But, I am pretty sure that Frank at Prodigy painted Todd's car.
PAYBACK is a killer looking car. And runs like hell too!:cheers:

Vegas69

11-27-2009, 02:15 PM

x2
Todd how much room do you have left by the fuel lines. Are you making your own end links?
Who painted your car?

Not much, I have two 1/2 hard lines plumbed through that area. The plan is to use brackets on the bottom side of the frame and a corvette c5 style end link or similar. I'll post it up when I have it all figured out. Prodigy Customs painted my car. It's a really good driver. Nice enough to where people say it's super straight and nice and deep. It's not as nice as Rodgers truck but it's perfect for me. It's driven really hard and looks great. :thumbsup:

89 RS

11-27-2009, 09:09 PM

Sweet Todd. This had to be my favorite thread that keeps it on topic and provides useful, informed detail of new upgrades and constant tuning and what is working and what is not. Great thread man. Keep it goin.

Thanks for posting Todd, always look forward to your updates. Good luck Sunday.

awr68

11-27-2009, 10:44 PM

Is it in the new trailer yet!? :unibrow:

Best of luck brother!! :captain:

Vegas69

11-27-2009, 10:47 PM

Thanks bros:cheers: I don't need no stankin trailer for autocross.:D I bought the trailer to race my boys in Cali and maybe even Nebraska.:faint:

awr68

11-27-2009, 10:51 PM

I bought the trailer to race my boys in Cali and maybe even Nebraska.:faint:

And Oregon when the time comes.......:unibrow:

Vegas69

11-27-2009, 11:19 PM

Me gots no wipers.:D

70rs

11-27-2009, 11:28 PM

Me gots no wipers.:D

Todd.......RainX. No excuses man.:_paranoid

:lol:

Vegas69

11-27-2009, 11:31 PM

It's on there but I have little faith....Pretty sure almost everything on my car is black. That's why I have an ENCLOSED WHITE TRAILER.:rofl:

awr68

11-28-2009, 11:37 AM

Come on man...it doesn't usually rain up here from July 4th - Sept!! LOL :D

tones2SS

11-28-2009, 01:47 PM

Me gots no wipers.:D

Less weight = more speed!! lol:unibrow: :lol:

waynieZ

11-30-2009, 03:38 PM

Hi Todd how did it go yesterday? Sorry didn't see the other post until I posted this.

nvr2fst

11-30-2009, 07:55 PM

Not much, I have two 1/2 hard lines plumbed through that area. The plan is to use brackets on the bottom side of the frame and a corvette c5 style end link or similar. I'll post it up when I have it all figured out. Prodigy Customs painted my car. It's a really good driver. Nice enough to where people say it's super straight and nice and deep. It's not as nice as Rodgers truck but it's perfect for me. It's driven really hard and looks great. :thumbsup:

Todd did you look into Hotchkis end links for C5, Maybe Im wrong but I do believe there shorter. If your looking into an offset type let me know.

From the video it looks like you had a blast over the holiday. Next time Im there for the International Builders Show Ill have to look you up.

Vegas69

11-30-2009, 10:38 PM

Todd did you look into Hotchkis end links for C5, Maybe Im wrong but I do believe there shorter. If your looking into an offset type let me know.

From the video it looks like you had a blast over the holiday. Next time Im there for the International Builders Show Ill have to look you up.

I did notice the hotchkis ends but won't know what I need length wise until I get my bracket mounted. I bet they end up working just fine. Give me a hollar next time you're in town.

Vegas69

11-30-2009, 10:50 PM

Hi Todd how did it go yesterday? Sorry didn't see the other post until I posted this.

It went really well. I ended up 15th out of 64 cars. http://lvrscca.org/race-results/autox/2009/round14_raw.htm My last run was clean and I verified it with the director at a 42.5xx. That put me ahead of the street prepared champion for 2009 in his 98 Z28 with 315 A6's on all for corners. I also ran within .6 of a previous Super Street Modified champion in his Corvette and A6's. I have room for improvement and the car does as well. I'll never be the fastest but feel I can pick up a little more time on the field. It's a great bunch of racers.

I made some changes to the car that really seemed to help. I changed the front sway bar and made some major shock adjustments. I also changed air pressure.The car felt more nimble from the minute I left the driveway. The new axles didn't fix my brake knockback. However, it has improved it. I'm much happier with my street pedal and brake performance. I also had brakes without a double pump on the track. I still did when I had time just for a high pedal. I'm glad I made the change.

nvr2fst

12-01-2009, 08:45 AM

I did notice the hotchkis ends but won't know what I need length wise until I get my bracket mounted. I bet they end up working just fine. Give me a hollar next time you're in town.

Builders show is 2nd week in Jan already. Considering I was just out that way it may not happen unless the little lady is looking for a mini vac.

Whats up with the knock back issues. Seems like you have tried to correct a ton of items already and it still isnt all good. What were Paytons suggestions.

articleID=15103http://evolution.skf.com/zino.aspx?articleID=15103

Vegas69

12-01-2009, 10:57 AM

Just lucky I guess. :D It's not as rare are you think. There are 4 fixed calipers and 275mm/335mm of R compound that will pull more G's than most sports cars. It stresses everything. I bet a 10 psi residual out back will fix it, I'm just worried about excess heat. I've also considered doing springs behind the caliper pistons like they did in the old days. Wilwood claims it won't work, but I don't think they want the liability of telling me to mod my calipers. The other alternative is a floating rear end. Power brakes with a larger piston would help dramatically but I don't make enough vaccum. A hydraboost unit would also allow a bigger piston and would help dramtically but I like manual brakes on the race track. I know how to fix it, it's just at what compromise and how much money I want to spend. :lol:

Vegas69

12-06-2009, 03:13 PM

Well I decided the engine needed torn down and inspected after an oil filter examination. For those of you that have been following along, I lost a bronze distributor gear at around 1800 miles on the engine. The engine builder made a mistake. The camshaft has a cast gear and you can't use a bronze gear.....Anyway, all that debris went through the motor from day 1. I changed the oil twice within 500 miles and found bronze and silver metallics. I've put about 1500 miles on the car since the last oil change. This time it was no different. The engine clearly was slowly hurting itself. Every pleet had some bronze and silver.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineDebris001.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineDebris007.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineDebris008.jpg

I started at about 9 and Aj showed up at around 10:30. We had it on the stand by 1:30 or so. Thanks for the help.:cheers: You talk about a flippin mess!!!!!
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Teardown09001.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Teardown09002.jpg

Vegas69

12-06-2009, 03:17 PM

I ripped into it yesterday afternoon but ran out of steam and needed a 7/16 12 point 3/8 to loosen the rod bolts. I have done a brief inspection and here are some of the biggest findings.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Teardown09006.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Teardown09013.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Teardown09016.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Teardown09020.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Teardown09024.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Teardown09025.jpg

Most bearings had distributor gear debris embedded. The worst were the bearings that had actually started coming apart and had deep pits. Number 3 main and number 4 cam bearing were the worst. I also found 2 pushrods with excess wear.

Flash68

12-06-2009, 03:17 PM

Bummer man... where do you go from here? Anything happening with the engine builder about this?

70rs

12-06-2009, 03:18 PM

OUCH!! That sucks Todd! But at least you caught it before it went south on you and tossed a rod into orbit.:willy:

What is the rebuild plan? No time like the present to make a little more power right?:unibrow:

Spiffav8

12-06-2009, 03:19 PM

Oh man that sucks! At least you had Aj there to lend a hand. That guy doesn't mess around when it comes to taking stuff apart! :yes:

Vegas69

12-06-2009, 03:20 PM

So anyway, would the engine have lasted a while? Maybe..... but I wasn't taking any chances of grenading the motor on the road course etc. Now I need to find a reputable engine shop that can blueprint, re balance the crank, hot tank the block, etc. Any recomendations will be appreciated.

Now for the fun part, more compression and a mechanical cam. :D :D :D I'll put it together and make sure it's done right. It will be better. Here is where I stand.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Teardown09026.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/Teardown09028.jpg

tones2SS

12-06-2009, 03:25 PM

Man, it's always something huh, Todd? Sucks about the engine, but at least no major damage. Now you can rebuild it yourself and KNOW FOR A FACT that it is good to go!:thumbsup:
GOOD LUCK BUD & cool of AJ to come over and help out!:thumbsup: :cheers:

70rs

12-06-2009, 03:35 PM

What is maximum capacity for your block? (CID) I forgot what it's based on.

waynieZ

12-06-2009, 05:32 PM

Sorry to hear about this Todd. I bought a Filter Magnet for mine because its been sitting so long, just incase.

Vegas69

12-06-2009, 05:46 PM

Bummer man... where do you go from here? Anything happening with the engine builder about this?

I won't even bother to make that call. He said he'd own up to it but I don't believe him and if he did, I'd see my parts in 6 months. It's really not a huge deal. Crank is probably polishable and the cylinders are in good shape. I could redo it fairly inexpensively. If I need new pistons to raise the compression, I may just punch it out to 496. I'm happy with the parts. Most seem high quality. The timing chain was really loose for 3500 miles. It will need to be replaced. If it wasn't for the distributor gear, I think the engine would've lived a long life. I can make a ton more power with what I have in mind and be just as streetable. Stay tuned....

skatinjay27

12-06-2009, 06:02 PM

I can make a ton more power with what I have in mind and be just as streetable. Stay tuned....NICE!:unibrow:any thing under 750 will be too low!lol

GregWeld

12-06-2009, 06:31 PM

Todd --

Now you've managed to ruin my Hawaiian vacation! OUCH!

Want to haul it to Phoenix call Bob Ream at Imagine Injection tell him I sent ya...

I've had at least TWO motors built by dickheads - one was Dougs Racing Stables -- the shims under the valve springs didn't have pockets - so that motor was junk before it made it off the dyno... Been there done that!

Cris@JCG

12-06-2009, 06:56 PM

Todd 10 lbs residue valves & springs behind the pistons will not help your knock back issue.. I worked for Wilwood in the research & development dept for 10 yrs!!!

I have asked you to send me in all your specs on your whole complete brake system.. Pics :question: I am pretty sure I can help you resolve your issue!

You will create brake drag with residue valves or springs behind your pistons!

Residue valves were built into OE master cylinders when drums were standard equipment on cars.. they consists of a one way valve.. which held pressure when drum brakes retacted back from when pedal was released.. They are also heavily used when a master cylinder reservoir sits below level of the calipers @ the wheels.. When the reservoir sits below level of calipers the brake fluid will drain back into the master cylinder reservoir.. 10 lbs for drums & 2 lbs for disc brakes..

Springs behind pistons have not been used for a long time in production OE cars.. The caliper designs of today do not require them.. I remember when Wilwood used to use them on Winston Cup calipers 15 yrs ago for the same purpose that you are stating of eliminating piston knock back or when the caliper that were used from 65 to 81 Corvettes(J52 option if I remember correctly).. Cup seals with a piston design that would float in piston bore.. Piston to seal design has come a long way since then..

Steve Rupps Bad Penny ran Wilwoods for some time... He has never complained about piston knock back to me!! He is running Baers on Penny now but not cause they were a bad brake system with issues!!

Just lucky I guess. :D It's not as rare are you think. There are 4 fixed calipers and 275mm/335mm of R compound that will pull more G's than most sports cars. It stresses everything. I bet a 10 psi residual out back will fix it, I'm just worried about excess heat. I've also considered doing springs behind the caliper pistons like they did in the old days. Wilwood claims it won't work, but I don't think they want the liability of telling me to mod my calipers. The other alternative is a floating rear end. Power brakes with a larger piston would help dramatically but I don't make enough vaccum. A hydraboost unit would also allow a bigger piston and would help dramtically but I like manual brakes on the race track. I know how to fix it, it's just at what compromise and how much money I want to spend. :lol:

Vegas69

12-06-2009, 06:58 PM

Come on Greg, it didn't even ruin my day. ;) The thought of more power excites me. Pretty sure I've now touched every bolt on this car. :rofl: That's a good thing. I'm going to start calling some engine builders tomorrow sometime.

awr68

12-06-2009, 08:02 PM

More Power!! :unibrow: :D
Sorry it had to happen this way, but the end result will be awesome!! :thumbsup:

Flash68

12-06-2009, 09:05 PM

NICE!:unibrow:any thing under 750 will be too low!lol

I like this talk! :thumbsup:

monza

12-06-2009, 09:20 PM

It can only get better now!

I'd be a little more pissed at the engine builder, just shouldn't be.

phillym5

12-06-2009, 09:48 PM

DANG!! And i felt bad for leaving my little oil spot on your floor!!:lol:

Good catch though.... I remember you chattin about a .... twin turbo big block??:_paranoid

Vegas69

12-06-2009, 10:08 PM

750 Horse...twin turbo....:rofl: I'd have to redesign my fuel system and go to a 540. I don't want to go to radical. I need the low end power for autocross and street driving. I'm hoping for 650/650 out of the new motor.

I got over being pissed at that engine builder a long time ago. I was just out looking at the pistons. Not one has a drill mark. Nice balance job. :mad: The good news is I have some quality parts. SRP forged pistons, all arp hardware, Dart pro 1 heads, k1 rods, etc. I'm going to have every single thing checked before it goes back together. It will be top notch.

Vegas69

12-06-2009, 10:12 PM

waynieZ

12-06-2009, 10:47 PM

The upgrades sound like a good plan. Are you going to do any head work or just a bigger cam?

nvr2fst

12-06-2009, 11:39 PM

T_Raven

12-07-2009, 06:16 AM

Dang I fell way behind on this thread. Had to spend the last couple hours catching up, guess I never subscribed. It's great to see the story continue and get to learn from the problems you are running into and the adjustments you make. Thanks for all the good info:thumbsup:

Payton King

12-07-2009, 08:09 AM

You are pretty resilient. How may times can a person rebuild a new car? I like you attitude.

The way most balance a motor is put the lightest piston with the heaviest rod and take material off the balance pad of the rod and add or subtract weight at the crank.

Have a friend that has one of GM's ZL-1 blocks punched out to 496. His motor made 603 at the flywheel. Not sure the specs, but I can get them for you if you like as it would be a good starting point to try and squeeze out another 50 hp.

Are you happy with your rear suspension choice?

chr2002ca

12-07-2009, 08:43 AM

Todd, thanks a million for documenting so many of your real world experiences during your build. This thread gives a true depiction of what a lot of us go through to get or keep our high-performance rides 'working right' and how unreliable or incorrectly built many of these aftermarket parts are. I too have had quite a number of noteworthy aftermarket parts or systems not work as their suppose to or simply fail. Seeing your thread helps me realize that it's not just me and my typical bad luck. Also, seeing your determination and persistence helps me a lot also. So thank you for documenting all that you do. I really appreciate it. :thumbsup:

I also really look forward to your engine rebuild. I have a ZZ454 that I may 'enhance' one day and I was looking to get the same numbers out of mine that you're looking to get out of yours, so I definitely will keep my eyes glued to what you end up doing to your engine. Being a big block fan also, your ride and build thread have always been of huge interest to me. Keep up the great work! Loved your racing video clips also! :hail:

ironworks

12-07-2009, 09:26 AM

What about an aluminum block before you go back in with the engine.
YEAH.. YEAH..YEAH

Vegas69

12-07-2009, 10:05 AM

Now that I've modified the lower shock mounts and changed end links I'm happy with the handling and bite. Rear sway bar is in the works. I'm already at 593/587 so your buddies build is probably about identical since I'm down 7 cubes. I'm a car junkie. Nothing excites me more that building an engine and racing. Well maybe one thing.:D

Chris, shop owners should just send there customers my thread and tell them to read it when they start whining about how long it takes. I really feel building these cars is just like GM building a new car. It has to be put through the paces and fixed and tweaked and etc.... to get it really good. As the old saying goes, you put a bunch of bastard parts together........ I feel like the car is really getting there. This engine change will be a huge positive factor. I always thought the engine made good power but there were some things I would do different today.

Rodger.....you read my mind, can I borrow 5k? :D I just don't think I can convince myself to spend the money. If I find a deal maybe.:D

tones2SS

12-07-2009, 10:07 AM

Keep us posted Todd.
Just like Penny, Payback keeps on getting better! Good luck bud!:cheers:

Rybar

12-07-2009, 03:17 PM

Engine work is one of the best parts of the build. I'd punch it out if I were you Todd. Good excuse to get more power. :yes:

BTW I like your bedsheets covering the hood. :lol:

Vegas69

12-07-2009, 05:02 PM

Old lady was pissed. :rofl:

ironworks

12-07-2009, 05:47 PM

Rodger.....you read my mind, can I borrow 5k? :D I just don't think I can convince myself to spend the money. If I find a deal maybe.:D

Racing junk. There are new unused blocks out there. Is a dart block that much? I had a customer just buy an aluminum block for his 540 in his 56 chevy. I thought he said 3500.00

Kendall Burleson

12-07-2009, 06:39 PM

Racing junk. There are new unused blocks out there. Is a dart block that much? I had a customer just buy an aluminum block for his 540 in his 56 chevy. I thought he said 3500.00How much will the machine work be on a new block. The last on I did it was $3000.00 that was on cast bowtie small block.:cool: :cool:

Vegas69

12-07-2009, 06:50 PM

I'll have to start looking for some deals, I've talked to two reputable engine builders today. They are going to want to redo the machining anyway. A new dart block is about 5k new on a big block. That only includes rough machining. There are some chinese knock offs for quite a bit less but I won't go there. There is one thing for sure, it's not going to happen very fast unless I decide to deal local and put it together. I want it done 100% right this time.

ironworks

12-07-2009, 07:03 PM

There is a guy local to me that does awesome engine work and makes big power. He is on the higher end of things, but does work for lots of knowledgeable guys that have the money to go any where. Terrible Herbst Boys and Jesse James.

Jim Watkins in Bakersfield, 661 861 9898. Watkins Engine Development.

Bako is not that far from Vegas.

Rodger

jack67rs

12-08-2009, 04:55 PM

Todd, your garage and motor looks way to familiar. The last few trips that I've taken since the new engine helps to put all the pain of dealing with the last idiot behind me. Good luck and I hope you can find a reputable builder. We thrashed on mine two weeks before Goodguys, had to pull the motor out and replace a bad rear seal the week of the show. Ended up with a Goodguys builders pick and it all seemed worth while. THATS HOT RODDIN!

It looks like you did the right thing pullin it out when you did.

Jack

tones2SS

12-08-2009, 05:05 PM

Todd, have you looked into Wegner Motorsports? (I do believe Frank Prodigy sells some of their LS engines.)
They did an engine for Jason Stavola and his '69 Camaro, that DSE had built.
http://detroitspeed.com/projectpages/jasonstavola/jstavola_main1.htm

Vegas69

12-08-2009, 05:27 PM

You got that right Jack. Glad to hear you are back on the road and knockin peoples socks off. You are right, it was time if I want to salvage any of the parts.

Wegner is a great builder but they are way to far away. I'll never do that again. I also want a builder that builds big block chevys on a regular basis. I've got it down to two builders in California. They both have killer reputations. I'll be driving to California by the end of next week with a bed full of parts.

tones2SS

12-09-2009, 09:25 AM

monza

12-09-2009, 11:04 AM

66LS7

12-09-2009, 11:26 AM

Todd did some reading, sorry to see the engine problems, thats an awsome car & I'm glad to see you using it for what's built for. Good luck with getting the engine staightened out.

Randy(D&Z Customs LLC.)
[email protected]
1-262-347-9741

skatinjay27

12-09-2009, 02:13 PM

Todd
The name escapes me right now.... but that dyno tuner we both used, does he not have any connections to quality local builders? He talked the talk of a lot of badass Vettes rolling in and out of his shop?the main focus of his builds are lsx... he out sources the machine work and builds them in house. Im sure he could build it for todd but i dot believe he knows BB builds like the back of his hand and thats what todds looking for.

monza

12-09-2009, 06:03 PM

Right the BB, forgot about that lack of progression.....:unibrow: :willy:

BBC69Camaro

12-09-2009, 06:05 PM

Sorry to hear about the motor. I'm sure you will get it rebuild and it will be better than ever :thumbsup:

skatinjay27

12-09-2009, 06:06 PM

Right the BB, forgot about that lack of progression.....:unibrow: :willy::lol: :lol: good one!:rofl:

GregWeld

12-09-2009, 06:11 PM

Todd --

I've talked to and spent some time at Speed-O-Motive (LA)... They do TONS of blown stuff... and looked to be a very well run and organized shop...

Just my two cents...

Vegas69

12-09-2009, 06:11 PM

Very funny, an LS is looking really cheap right now. :lolhit:

awr68

12-09-2009, 06:59 PM

Very funny, an LS is looking really cheap right now. :lolhit:

Yeah and not that big of a deal either....just have to replace EVERYTHING from the radiator to the driveline! Trust me I have thought about it...but Jody and my wife talked me right out of those crazy thoughts!! :willy:

BBC69Camaro

12-09-2009, 09:05 PM

There is always a 555CI, seen this Todd?
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=24109

Vegas69

12-09-2009, 09:07 PM

Those LS motors are the easy way out. :D :rolleyes: Anyway, it would really be cheaper to slap an LSx in there and redo a bunch of crap than what I have floating around in my head. Not going to happen. I like it old school under the hood.

Vegas69

12-09-2009, 09:08 PM

There is always a 555CI, seen this Todd?
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=24109

Yep, I just looked over the thread. I can do it cheaper since I already have Dart 325's and a intake. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Flash68

12-09-2009, 10:14 PM

Todd --

I've talked to and spent some time at Speed-O-Motive (LA)... They do TONS of blown stuff... and looked to be a very well run and organized shop...

Just my two cents...

Funny. I have heard nothing but TERRIBLE reports about Speed-O-Motive... doing such a high volume of motors translates into inconsistent assembly and results is the consensus I have read about. No personal experience though.

DFRESH

12-09-2009, 10:25 PM

Todd, let me know when you are coming out to Cali.

Glad you are on the case so quickly with it. It should be easy to make the power numbers you are looking for with those heads and another cam--and keep it streetable. If you need some running around done for you in terms of shop selection, let me know--i've dealt with quite a few of them and am glad to help you out.

June is coming buddy--

Doug

GregWeld

12-09-2009, 10:47 PM

Funny. I have heard nothing but TERRIBLE reports about Speed-O-Motive... doing such a high volume of motors translates into inconsistent assembly and results is the consensus I have read about. No personal experience though.

The beauty of these forums... you post something up - and people with more / different / better info add what they know... I wasn't saying that I KNOW they do good work - was just putting the name out there... So I'm glad you added your knowledge!!

:lateral:

Vegas69

12-09-2009, 11:29 PM

As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for. I sure did the first time around. When I ordered that motor I wasn't planning to race much and was fairly green on good big block combinations. I was never disapointed with the power but the rest of the experience was the worst part of my build.

This time around it's all about quality of the motor and the builder. I've learned my lesson on the engine shops that crank em out for little profit. If you have to build more engines to achieve the same profit, then they probably aren't that sought after. That also opens them up for more mistakes. Sure I could hot tank the block, bore it .060 over and get off fairly cheap slapping it together in my garage. Knowledge is a double edged sword. How much more money do I want to dump into a 489/496 GM block? At the end of the day I want something that is going to make killer power and stay together with the torture I plan. This is my one mulligan to build it right. At this point it's doubtful it will stay a 489/496. I need to buy a new crank and pistons anyway. I'm going to take my time and find the right situation and combination.

rogue

12-10-2009, 12:48 AM

http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/

:yes: :yes:

rogue

12-10-2009, 12:53 AM

Very funny, an LS is looking really cheap right now. :lolhit:

yawn. Might as well just buy a 5th gen ;)

DOOM

12-10-2009, 04:58 AM

http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/

:yes: :yes:

X2 I think your search should stop right there Todd:lateral:

Vegas69

12-10-2009, 07:44 AM

I called and never heard back.........

DOOM

12-10-2009, 07:55 AM

I called and never heard back.........

Thats frustraiting !! I can't understand why a buisness can't at least give a call back. Not good, really no excuse for it!!!

Jims78elky

12-10-2009, 08:09 AM

Sorry about your engine Todd..I can remember when you first told the story about the wrong dizzy gear being installed..wow...:wow:

I had a good buddy of mine get a rotating kit from these guys..he did a BB 540 and had great service.

http://www.ohiocrank.com/chevbb_rotate.html

Good luck with the new build!

:thumbsup:

-Jim

rogue

12-10-2009, 08:13 AM

I called and never heard back.........

Toms a busy guy. I've dropped by his shop before. Hes pretty much a one or two man operation. Great guy and AMAZING work. Maybe give it one more shot, tell him you're calling from Lateral G.

DOOM

12-10-2009, 08:33 AM

Toms a busy guy. I've dropped by his shop before. Hes pretty much a one or two man operation. Great guy and AMAZING work. Maybe give it one more shot, tell him you're calling from Lateral G.

Dane I understand exactly what your saying! But you stil have to find time to call your customers back!! I was plowing last night for 4 hour came in my shop a little after 7 pm 6 calls 6 returned calls you have to do this it's customer service something we don't have much of anymore. I plan on using Tom for my project but I will not tolerate poor customer service..

ironworks

12-10-2009, 08:40 AM

I talked with Todd a few days ago and the 2 guys he has narrowed his selection down to are both amazing. He will be in good hands which ever way he goes.

70rs

12-10-2009, 10:02 AM

I talked with Todd a few days ago and the 2 guys he has narrowed his selection down to are both amazing. He will be in good hands which ever way he goes.

That's good to know Rodger. It will be nice when he can get it back in the car and have all of the confidence in it staying together.:cheers:

Vegas69

12-10-2009, 11:22 AM

Yep, Rodger is right on the money. I'm impressed with Jason Pettis and his attention to detail and looking forward to speaking with Jim Watkins over at Watkins Engine Development in Bakersfield next week. I'll seal a deal with one of them in the next 2 weeks.

ironworks

12-10-2009, 11:31 AM

Some of Jim Watkins work...900 hp small block
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy616V8M-mY&feature=fvw

Some of Jason Pettis's works, the black mustang that destroys the trans pan.
http://www.vimeo.com/2040153

I would say either guys will be do just fine.

Rodger

70rs

12-10-2009, 11:38 AM

Drifting a Trophy Truck on blactop sure looks like a good time!:drive:

And that silver ChevyII was getting some serious hang time under those front wheels.

Cool videos Rodger, thanks!

Vegas69

12-15-2009, 07:04 PM

I've reached a deal with Pettis Performance in Hesperia, CA. www.pettisperformance.com They have been around since 1975 and it's a Father/Son operation. Everyone has said great things about them. I'm headed down Thursday to drop off some parts and write him a check. I'm pretty damn excited about it! :thumbsup:

70rs

12-15-2009, 07:12 PM

VERY COOL!!! Merry christmas to Todd......:D

So what is the build plan? You can't say "I don't know"....you're going to write a check in a couple days!! :rofl:

Vegas69

12-15-2009, 07:18 PM

My lips are sealed:D It's going to be good!

GregWeld

12-15-2009, 07:37 PM

Don't tell him....

Glad you're happy Todd!! Shop looks great! Anybody that can make 1000 HP on motor from a sbFORD has got to be good!! :rofl: :rofl:

70rs

12-15-2009, 07:38 PM

My lips are sealed:D It's going to be good!

Oh man!! You need to understand Todd. This waiting is almost painfull. Like a 6 year old window shopping at Toys R Us. :rofl:

I know it will be good. There are very few cars on here that I have followed as close as yours. When something is going on with one of them I go nuts and want all the details. Yours, Karma and a couple others. I just gotta know!!!:willy:

Greg, you are not helping me here.....

ironworks

12-15-2009, 07:49 PM

Oh its good, don't worry

DFRESH

12-15-2009, 08:26 PM

Your putting a Hemi in it?

GregWeld

12-15-2009, 08:28 PM

He's going to have a hemi -- writing checks! :rofl: :rofl:

Merry F'n Xmas!!

waynieZ

12-15-2009, 08:30 PM

Todd glad you got the plan all figured out and underway. I'm sure the waiting will be tuff for you too. I'm anxious to see what your doing too.

Vegas69

12-15-2009, 08:32 PM

Your about to find out....:rofl:
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chr2002ca

12-15-2009, 09:20 PM

I'm quite anxious to hear about your new engine also Todd. I love this thread and your build.

So, uh, could you possibly throw us a bone, and at least let us know if you went with an aluminum block or not? :)

skatinjay27

12-15-2009, 09:53 PM

guess i'll just have to call you then!:unibrow:

fleetus macmullitz

12-15-2009, 09:57 PM

let us know if you went with an aluminum block or not? :)

http://www.autoaluminum.org/main/performance-advantage/performance-advantage

:yes:

GregWeld

12-15-2009, 10:15 PM

Skip --

That'd be a little on the expensive side to set a carburetor on wouldn't it? I mean - who does that? :rofl: :woot:

fleetus macmullitz

12-15-2009, 10:23 PM

Skip --

That'd be a little on the expensive side to set a carburetor on wouldn't it? I mean - who does that? :rofl: :woot:

Yeah, what were Vince Piggins and Fred Gibb thinking?!

:D

tones2SS

12-16-2009, 04:23 PM

Vegas69

12-17-2009, 10:25 PM

It's been a long day. I headed out at 7 AM for Palm Springs to pick up a small piece of the puzzle for the new engine build. It ended up being about and hour and a half past my engine builder. The guy has a killer shop packed full of cool cars and parts. The owner is Randy Walker. He has the fastest El Caminon on earth and runs 6.20's. The car was really bitchin. He said they were going to spend $3500 to shed 30 lbs off the car, but he decided to go on a diet instead. LOL Here is what I went to pick up...:D
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip015.jpg

While I was there I snapped some photos of some of the cars scattered around. The mustang is a real shelby. They had just fired a 70 cuda with a monster engine and tunnel ram. It was 80's pro street but cool. Here are a few photos.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip001.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip002.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip003.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip004.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip005.jpg
/EngineRoadTrip014.jpg[/IMG]

Vegas69

12-17-2009, 10:26 PM

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip007.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip008.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip009.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip010.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip012.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip013.jpg
[IMG]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969

Vegas69

12-17-2009, 10:27 PM

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip010.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip014.jpg

70rs

12-17-2009, 10:31 PM

Uh.....you went to pick up a box? Nice teaser there!:mad:

There are a lot of cool cars there! Like Toys R Us for big kids!

Flash68

12-17-2009, 10:33 PM

Cool cars but I don't like your games either!

To hell with what' behind door #3, I'll take what's in the box! :woot:

Vegas69

12-17-2009, 10:40 PM

After my 3 hours excursion I pulled in Hesperia, Ca. Not the prettiest place on the planet. I wasn't sure what to expect. I pulled up to Pettis Performance and it had Mom and Pops written all over it. I had a good feeling the minute I pulled in the driveway. The best machinist I ever found back home was in his 2 car garage full of equipment. Anyway, I walked in the front door and it was motor head heaven. This place has been around since 1973 and you talk about parts and machines! The place was packed but immaculate. Rare for a machine shop. The first thing they did was have a worker unload my truck and inventory my parts. They I got the grand tour. After that I went and watched the final dyno pull on a 565 Big block. How does 925 hp sound naturally aspirated? It's going in a Jeep sand rail....:_paranoid The guy was beside himself. It made peak power at 7200 but the curve was flat as a board to 7800. Once that was done Jason and I looked over all my parts and he took some more notes. That shop is a well oiled machine. If the motor sucks I just have bad luck. :rofl: Eat your heart out....

Who doesn't want this speed shop in your home town?
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip034.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip035.jpg

GregWeld

12-17-2009, 10:42 PM

I didn't see the little crank handle on the box - you know - the one you wind and wind and then all of a sudden *** Boing *** the lid springs open and out pops the weasel!

No DOUG -- Not your weasel = or your bowl cobra either!

Nice box - nice cars -- note the first "whatever it is" with the blue stripes has a BLUE Imagine Injection unit sitting in the engine bay -- SWEET!!

Vegas69

12-17-2009, 10:43 PM

The shop was well laid out and CLEAN. Every machine you can imagine. Most were from the 60's and 70's. Quality equipment....
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip026.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip027.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip028.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip029.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip030.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip031.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip032.jpg

ironworks

12-17-2009, 10:44 PM

Vegas69

12-17-2009, 10:44 PM

When I look at a engine shop, I want to see a seperate assembly room.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip033.jpg

Flash68

12-17-2009, 10:51 PM

Good thing you guys have careers, cuz you guys would make horrible detectives. All the info to know needed to know what is in the box is in the back of the truck. Seriously. Does he have to give you x ray vision to know what is in the box.

So Randy walker owned the contents of the box? That guy hauls ass, I think he won a season championship this year.

Rodger, if I didn't have a "career" I wouldn't be able to afford a damn money pit musclecar! :lol:

But you're right. The info is right there, and man that is a sweet purchase Todd. :woot:

70rs

12-17-2009, 10:51 PM

Nice work Todd. I have a feeling you are in good hands. And yes Rodger, I need Xray vision. Now I feel even more stupid for missing whatever is supposed to be in front of me. I am pretty sure it's a shortblock but I want the details.

ironworks

12-17-2009, 10:58 PM

89 RS

12-17-2009, 10:59 PM

Cool stuff Todd, thanks for posting those pics.

GregWeld

12-17-2009, 11:00 PM

Roger --

Remind me not to share any secrets or surprises with you...

Vegas69

12-17-2009, 11:01 PM

It's no secret, I'm just facken with my boys.

ironworks

12-17-2009, 11:01 PM

Rodger, if I didn't have a "career" I wouldn't be able to afford a damn money pit musclecar! :lol:

But you're right. The info is right there, and man that is a sweet purchase Todd. :woot:

At least I would make a good detective if this car building does not work out. As far as me being an English teacher, not likely.

ironworks

12-17-2009, 11:03 PM

Roger --

Remind me not to share any secrets or surprises with you...

Well obviously it is no secret, it right there in plain site.

70rs

12-17-2009, 11:05 PM

Nope even better....

:lol: Ok give me some help here. I just went and checked casting numbers just to double check any part of the number on the box. I give up.
I know this is entertaining for some. Like teasing a fat kid with a fat slice of chocolate cake. :rofl: I gotta know what's in the box.......:willy:

:cheers:

Vegas69

12-17-2009, 11:05 PM

I ran across this really cool block while I was over there....:D
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip017.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip019.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip020.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/EngineRoadTrip023.jpg

GregWeld

12-17-2009, 11:08 PM

That makes a grown man WEEP!!

EEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!

70rs

12-17-2009, 11:09 PM

NICE!! That will do the trick!:thumbsup:

ironworks

12-17-2009, 11:16 PM

That is so awesome Todd, I'm happy for you.

The number on the box was the part number.

http://gmperformancepartszone.com/aluminum-bigblock-12370850-p-6079.html

70rs

12-17-2009, 11:20 PM

What is max displacement for one of those?

GregWeld

12-17-2009, 11:25 PM

4.300 bore - MAX

4.375 Stroke Max

Bore x's pie - times stroke times 8 -- 473 cubic incheroos

GregWeld

12-17-2009, 11:26 PM

Each cylinder is about the size you could drop a phone into...

LOL

GregWeld

12-17-2009, 11:30 PM

Eric -- It's a 427 block from the factory... 4.240" bore... jus like they made 'em back in 69 for the world famous, ultra rare ZL-1 Camaros....

Only Mo' Betta!

:cheers: :woot:

70rs

12-17-2009, 11:30 PM

Each cylinder is about the size you could drop a phone into...

LOL

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: you so funny:rofl: :rofl:

I did know it was the 427 block reproduced and improved but did not know what the deal was for max displacement. Very cool indeed!

Vegas69

12-17-2009, 11:36 PM

70rs

12-17-2009, 11:41 PM

The max is 508 cubic inches. It will be a 489 since my SRP forged pistons are in good shape. Just need a polish. At the end of the day, I decided that this made the most sense for my car and my application. This ain't no drag car. :D That's another project! I'll have some updates with all the trick parts and machining..........

Does it require a re sleeve to get it up to 508 inches? I ask because of the max bore and stroke advertised on the web site that Rodger gave a link for.

Either way you slice it, the lighter block and I am sure there will be a bit more power this will make for a really kick ass package for your car!