Norwood

[Sieg]

I've been around here far to long without starting a thread about my car. Partly because it's nothing special and it lacks the financial resources to become a modern day PT car.

Norwood does have a lot of sentimental value though as my best friend Bob Abel located the car in '89 and convinced me that I needed it since he knew when I was in high school in 74-76 that I idolized a buddy's red and black '69 Z/28.

I first met Bob in the early 80's. Bob built the Cooler Tavern in '67 which was located a couple of blocks from the University of Oregon's current football stadium, Autzen Stadium which the U of O played their first game at in '68. The stadium is still an icon today.

I really got to know Bob when I was a judge at The Village Green Concours. I was judging the Corvette's and Cobra's and Bob happened to have a pristine 289 trailer queen and a very good '66 427 driver. The ensuing party after the concourse at his house resulted in the creation of the Alpo Open which would be held at the Cooler Tavern. The rules were pretty simple, eight contestants were seated at two picnic benches on the stage, hands tied behind them, dog dishes filled with premium Alpo dog food in front of them, first empty bowl wins. Top three went to the finals two weeks later. :thumbsup:

Bob was the best man in my first wedding in '88 and adopted me as a room mate in "Abel's Home for Wayward Men" in Oct. of '94 when I filed for divorce. Since he divorced in '92 we were enjoying life until Feb. of '95 when he was diagnosed with cancer and died at a young 53 years old, my current age. Sadly he didn't make a repeat performance as best man when I was married again to my current wife in Nov. of '96. I can honestly say there haven't been many days since his death that I haven't thought of him and still miss his friendship dearly.

Godspeed my friend.......
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Cycles-Cars/100/182685980_evpPC-L.jpg

So.........Norwood is nothing special as a car but it's much more than a car in so many ways.

Norwood started life as a '69 Super Sport X11 Fathom Green vinyl top car. When Bob drove it down from Portland and I took delivery at another good gearhead friend of our's house it looked pretty much like this even though this picture is taken in '06.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Cycles-Cars/P7240051/182726417_BsKFM-L.jpg

The suspension and interior was all stock, the motor was a 355 built by a builder know for his circle track motors at the now erased Portland Riverside Speedway when I took delivery. It's kind of a sneaker buget build as it uses mostly old school GM performance parts but runs respectable and has never let me down to this day though I've only put about 9K miles on it since '89. The paint and badging is as delivered in '89.

In the first few years I added Koni front shocks and firmer/lower front springs, de-arched the stock rear springs, installed a set of Recarro front seats and Simpson lap belts, and Momo steering wheel purchased at Wine Country Motorsports during a trip with Bob to the Jim Davis Memorial Drags at Sears Point.

So.........the kids are now 10 and 13 and I'm realizing their future impact on earnings potential so late last summer I decided to sell a motorcycle invest some money in Norwood and rekindle the now 23 year old relationship. Two things I never liked about the car were the automatic transmission and wheels. I've also never been a vinyl top fan either but on this car it doesn't bother me enough to take money away from performance mods that improve the driving experience. So the money from the motorcycle went towards Vintage Wheel Works V40's and a close-ratio Tremec T56 Magnum.

Here's how Norwood sat at last fall.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-Jngr9qf/1/L/IMAG1177-L.jpg

So.......if I'm not black-balled from Lat-G for being so negligent I'll be able to update recent progress without mini thread-jacks going forward. :rolleyes:

To the numerous contributing members and moderators here I can't tell you how much I appreciate the wealth of information this forum delivers and the overall caliber of the participants and vendors. :thumbsup:

:lateral:

[wiedemab]

Very cool story. Great looking car!

[Sieg]

Very cool story. Great looking car!
Thanks Brandon.

[Sieg]

Here's some more basics on the car.

The engine compartment wasn't bad when I bought it but there have been quite a few hours of nit-picky low budget detailing mostly involving time and elbow grease.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/IMG1049/1178781152_bifVs-L.jpg

The exhaust system wasn't very good so another of the early mods was to install the brand new at the time ceramic coatred headers and a FlowMaster exhaust kit with 2.5" pipe, a cross-over, and single dual inlet/outlet muffler with tail pipes in the stock location.
G9IijvK4kh8

The car to the best of my knowledge was delivered with multi-leaf and 12 bolt posi unlike Renner's one-legger. :unibrow: You can also see the corner of the FlowMaster and the ultra-trick Monroe Magnum shocks. :D Springs are Global West -2" stiffies. I stripped and undercoated most of the car shortly after I bought it with 3M Rubberized Undercoat and also sandblasted and painted most of the brackets and rearend and replaced the OEM fuel and brake lines.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/IMGP6354/1192651508_WQQWq-L.jpg

The front brakes were something to talk about.............in 1969.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/IMG1062/1178782179_6qyWg-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/IMGP6362/1192651734_LGkyy-L.jpg
:rofl: :rofl:

[intocarss]

Very cool story, Your car looks killer! Sounds like a great friend may he RIP

[Sieg]

Very cool story, Your car looks killer! Sounds like a great friend may he RIP

Thanks man. :thumbsup:

He was a great friend. He was the kind of person that if I was in serious trouble and could make contact with him there was no doubt he'd be there or arrange prompt resolution. He had many traits very similar to Mr. Greg Weld. :thumbsup: But I don't think Greg has ridden a Harley at Sturgess wearing a much larger than life latex Dickhead cap. :rofl:

At his funeral it was standing room only, easily over 700 people and a long line out the front door. When I took the podium to speak it was an amazing tribute. We had funeral procession to the cemetary with over 120 Good Guys caliber hotrods, they actually closed traffic on Interstate 5 for the procession. it's been 16 years now and I still get choked up.

[Bucketlist2012]

Thanks for your Story...

[Flash68]

Great story, Sieg. Nice job telling it. :)

And glad you posted your car. It looks great and you are on your way now with that bug we all have here. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Great story, Sieg. Nice job telling it. :)

And glad you posted your car. It looks great and you are on your way now with that bug we all have here. :thumbsup:

Thanks Dave.

Progress on the car has been handicapped by another passion (adrenaline addiction) over the years..........motorcycles.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Track-Day/KTM-Fontana-2011/CP46212/1189946614_WWySK-L.jpg
Father time is sneaking up on me so it's time to focus on a future adrenaline delivery system. :unibrow:

[Bryan O]

I've also never been a vinyl top fan either but on this car it doesn't bother me enough...

Very nice car Sieg. :thumbsup: Thanks for posting.

I guess I'm in the minority, but I really like the vinyl tops. Particularly on orange and yellow 69s. I seriously considered putting one on mine. I think your car looks awesome.

Do you have specific plans for the build going forward?

[Sieg]

Very nice car Sieg. :thumbsup: Thanks for posting.

I guess I'm in the minority, but I really like the vinyl tops. Particularly on orange and yellow 69s. I seriously considered putting one on mine. I think your car looks awesome.

Do you have specific plans for the build going forward?
Thanks Bryan. :thumbsup:

I have a few more posts to add to this overnite biography to get the car to it's current state and what I want it to be. Stay tuned. :)

[Sieg]

Continuing the biography - When I bought the car it had an old Holley square bore dual feed that I could never ID exactly what it was. It ran great on top but around town it wasn't too good. Edelbrock had just come out with their 1400 series so I put a 1406 on the car and bought a tuning kit.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-T9MSpDb/0/L/P1010004-L.jpg
Having had cars with Weber DGV and DCOE carbs I was pretty comfortable with jetting the Weber made 1406. it was good around town and strong in the mid range but I never could get decent upper rpm performance from it. I wasn't sure if it was myself, the metering or the cfm so in 2001 or so when BG came out with the Speed Demon Series I thought the 650vs may be the ticket.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-wfw6bJM/0/L/P6050004-L.jpg
Well as it turned out the idle circuit in the early Speed Demons sucked, almost as much as BG's tech department. The Demon top end was better but idle and off idle transition was mediocre. I recently solved the transition by drilling the pump nozzles from .028 to .035, going with a green pump cam, and playing with the vac secondary springs. So much for their marketing promise of ready right out of the box.

The top end is still a little soft for the way the motor builds power in the mid-range. The Edelbrock Torker II manifold that came on the car is weak link IMO. I know, it's kinda of obvious but when you're not hanging around gearheads a lot and have limited test and tune time and we'd just had our first child, I was a little handicapped.......some will argue I still am. Nobody's ever accused me of being excessively smart and I like to tinker, those two traits compliment each other nicely. :yes:

[intocarss]

Edelbrock's 1400 series carbs were trash as well as the Demons. Back then we played with both and never could make them work through out the whole RPM range. LOL at BG's tech service :yes:

[Sieg]

OK - Fast forward about ten years, six motorcycles, and the first kid has a sister now and they're 10 and 13. Decide you're not getting any younger, you don't heal as quick, and at some point reaction time and vision is going handicap motorcycling at the level you like to ride, so another strategy is in order.

Phase one were these:
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/IMAG1023/1225301857_dwvJF-L.jpg

Phase two was this:
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-vLb3pCx/0/L/IMAG0266-L.jpg

Those items lead to this
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-ZmPthVh/0/L/IMGP6507-L.jpg

A little clearancing
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-LvZHh2t/0/L/IMGP6517-L.jpg

A little cutting
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-FJwFgPB/0/L/IMGP6551-L.jpg

A little fitting & welding
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-rTmdkCg/0/L/IMGP6573-L.jpg

And a little makeup
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-2FwC6vN/0/L/IMGP6578-L.jpg

[Vegas69]

Good, a thread of yours that I can jack. :lol: It's about time you told us a little about yourself.

[Track Junky]

Awesome story Sieg!! God Speed to your friend Bob. Friends like that are very few and far between.
Glad to see your adding to the snall collection of leaf sprung and stock subframed build threads!! :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Good, a thread of yours that I can jack. :lol: It's about time you told us a little about yourself.

Lord knows I've got some payback coming. :lol: It's partially your fault it took me so long.....your car has given Norwood a serious low self-esteem complex. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Awesome story Sieg!! God Speed to your friend Bob. Friends like that are very few and far between.
Glad to see your adding to the small collection of leaf sprung and stock subframed build threads!! :thumbsup:
Thanks Gaetano. :thumbsup: Being a minority ain't easy at times, especially if you're the faster orange and black combo. :unibrow:

[Ron in SoCal]

About time Sieg...:D

Great read and project! I've always liked the orange and black combo. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

About time Sieg...:D

Great read and project! I've always liked the orange and black combo. :thumbsup:
Thanks Ron - Appreciate it. :thumbsup:

[bad.samaritan]

Great story and awesome car Sieg :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

More on the T56 install. First I need to mention this wouldn't have been possible without the help of a good friend whom I met through Bob. He was the executor of Bob's estate and an avid hot-rodder. He has been more than generous storing my car for the past 3 years in one of the shops at his house. The drive on lift and his assistance and guidance made the project substantially easier than solo in my garage on jack stands. Even though I had to travel 15-20 minutes one way to his shop the lift and space were well worth the travel.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-LT5gj7H/0/L/IMGP6519-L.jpg

One thing I learned about the T56 1st Gen F body install is many people say they will fit without cutting the tunnel. After multiple trial fits and measurements there must be quite a difference in the floor pans from factory to factory. With a drivetrain angle of 2.25-2.5* downward and new full height sub-frame mounts mine was a full 1/2" high at the shifter cover bolts on the right side. Access to the top bolts on Quicktime scatter shield was also very tight, 3' extention with a wobble end just barely fit.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-srM2zX9/0/L/IMAG1199-L.jpg
This is the final clearance after manipulating the tunnel with bottle jacks and wood blocks.

I built this cover to gain clearance and also access to the shifter
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-wPgX2h5/0/L/IMAG1203-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-XFmf7gm/0/M/IMGP6596-M.jpg

Another thing I learned........
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-z9WHmLs/0/L/IMGP6589-L.jpg
When levering the sub-frame down to squeeze the cross-member into position make sure the pry-bar doesn't lose it's bite.
I had no idea how fast my hands really are. :D

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-rVwCMxw/0/M/IMGP6603-M.jpg
A strategically placed fabric band-aid stopped the bleeding during what ended up being a 14 hour thrash. Cleaned it up when I got home and used butterfly closures for a few days. I should have sutured or super glued it as I now have a life long scar as a reminder of my personal one-punch azz-kicking.......and a little dain bramage.

[intocarss]

Keep it coming!! I slipped with a Tq wrench once on a flywheel bolt and got 12 to the stitches chin. Glad you're alright

[John510]

Ouch! My T56 hits y floor also. Im grinding off the little ear tabs that are hitting.

[Sieg]

Besides the anticipated tunnel clearance mods the only real issue we had with the install was the throw-out bearing shipped with the kit from Hurst Drivelines......too long
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-M89nvgw/0/XL/IMAG1040-XL.jpg

Hurst responded promptly and shipped me a Mcleod adjustable at no charge. :thumbsup:
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-mnzn5Nc/0/XL/IMAG1084-XL.jpg

Other than having to cut the tacks on the exhaust system, R&R the tranny and kick my own azz the install went pretty well.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-wrtmnp9/0/L/IMAG1039-L.jpg
:rofl:

So moving right along, I've fought a leaking front timing cover to oil pan seal since I've had the car. Decided while the tranny was out to replace the cover and pan with Milodon units and a Felpro one piece silcone gasket. We could squeeze the motor up just enough to get the pan out between the crank and cross member. One ficken problem, the windage tray would clear the oil pump pick-up. :(
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-2tZTS3H/0/L/IMAG1080-L.jpg
Nothing a little cutting can't fix.......I saved the piece so in the future it can be tacked back in. :rolleyes: I used black permagasket silicone on the front and rear seals when we reinstalled the pan and all went well.

So the first test drive I find out it's leaking worse than before.....WTF! I call Milodon and was informed their gasket has a little more material at the front an rear seals than Felpro's.............:willy: So at some point in the near future the motor will be coming out and the pan will be mounted with a Milodon gasket and The Right Stuff. Did I mention that I HATE OIL LEAKS!? :D

[Sieg]

One thing leads to another..........
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-nM5srkt/0/L/IMAG1213-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-G5dVThx/0/L/IMAG1221-L.jpg

POR 15'd
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-6H5njGr/0/L/IMAG1240-L.jpg

Dynamat Extreme and new carpet
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-RzSN9JQ/0/L/IMAG1279-L.jpg

Back together again
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-snMKkVV/0/L/IMAG1315-L.jpg

I also went to the local crafts store and bought some vinyl and sewed up a shift boot. FWIW - I used an O-ring to secure the top.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-NH9VwCx/0/L/IMGP0002-L.jpg

One thing I did to add additional sound deadening was cut out panels of 1/2 felted wool commercial carpet pad and fit in the backside of the rear seat panels. I feel it was well worth it, as the tail pipe noise is reduced about 50% now. Even though at first I wasn't sure if I liked it so quiet, but now I can actually hear someone during a phone call. :D

[Thumpt]

Nice story and am looking forward to your next update already.:yes: :yes: :yes:
Mark.

[coolwelder62]

Very Cool Thread.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Keep it coming!! I slipped with a Tq wrench once on a flywheel bolt and got 12 to the stitches chin. Glad you're alrightI can relate! I was very careful when torquing the flywheel, it creates multiple potential ops for failure. :D

Ouch! My T56 hits y floor also. Im grinding off the little ear tabs that are hitting. Dimple the tunnel metal vs hacking on the tranny?

Nice story and am looking forward to your next update already.:yes: :yes: :yes:
Mark. Thanks mate. :thumbsup:

Very Cool Thread.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:Much appreciated Scott. :thumbsup:

[Garage Dog 65]

The line in Christmas Story just came to mind... "you'll put your eye out" :lol:

Great progress and congrats !

Jim

[Sieg]

The line in Christmas Story just came to mind... "you'll put your eye out" :lol:

Great progress and congrats !

JimLOL! Thanks Jim, very impressed with your "Speedster" and fabrication skills. My first real job out of high school (summer of '76) was at the small local Porsche/Audi dealer. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

The suspension and interior was all stock, the motor was a 355 built by a builder know for his circle track motors at the now erased Portland Riverside Speedway when I took delivery. It's kind of a sneaker buget build as it uses mostly old school GM performance parts but runs respectable and has never let me down to this day though I've only put about 9K miles on it since '89.

During the pan and gasket swap I snapped a couple pics of the antique lower-end SBC. Nothing fancy, 010 block, balanced assembly, brazed pickup, 2.02 heads that casting #'s match up to 67 375hp Corvette, hydraulic cam has no ID on the front so I'm assuming GM?, Comp Cams Magnum rockers 1.5/1,6 ratio, Mallory Unilite distributor. I don't know what crank or pistons were used, based on traits I'm guessing 10:1 comp. Any insight based on observations would be appreciated. Trash talking is expected too. :unibrow:

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-Rp5fgnk/0/XL/IMGP6491-XL.jpg

I like seeing there was still hatch marks on the cylinder wall in this pic after 23 years.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-dFRcZvX/0/XL/IMGP6492-XL.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-3qbBbrQ/0/XL/IMGP6495-XL.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-gmmmDnN/0/XL/IMGP6494-XL.jpg

[Sieg]

After test driving the wheel/tire/trans install for 500 miles or so I noticed the Hurst Blackjack optional shifter upgrade I ordered with the T56 Mag kit was weeping ATF out the top shift arm pivot.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/Hurst-Blackjack-Shifter/i-x2f8XDV/0/XL/IMG3681-XL.jpg

Let me back up a little and explain that Hurst advise me prior to installing the new shifter to apply heavy grease to the underside of the pivot ball and cut the seal from the underside of the stock Tremec shifter and fit it to the underside of their shifter......that should have been my first clue.

After discovering the leak I spoke with Hurst technical and was advised to verify the fluid level and check the case vent to insure it wasn't pinched or clogged. Once that was confirmed and it was still leaking, I was told the they hadn't heard of the issue and asked again about the fluid level and vent. I told them it may take a little time to confirm the venting for sure and the tech was very accommodating leaving me a verbal open window of warranty time. So a couple months passed and during some other projects the created downtime I pulled the console and slit the carpet kit down the tunnel, and thanks to the access/clearance plate I built, pulled the shifter to thoroughly inspect.

During the multiple conversations I questioned them as to why no seal was engineered into the design. As is, the gear cluster throws oil onto the bottom of the shifter linkage and the trans builds a slight amount of pressure during operation (obvious with the Incorporated vent system) and if oil is on the pivot ball internal pressure can push it out the top side, seems logical to me anyway.

After calling Hurst tech again to say all looked in order even though I hadn't flow tested the vent line due to restricted access. They then told me they only knew of two others they were having leak issues with and they have about 2000 sold in the field? That's a 300% percent increase by my math. :D They again questioned vent function and oil level. So.............

Here's the pressure tester I tossed together to verify vent function.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-94QrGVZ/0/M/IMAG1955-M.jpg http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-cLRjSJ7/0/M/IMAG1951-M.jpg

This and audible indication confirmed the vent was functioning and the max pressure registered was 2.5 psi. The oil level was checked on level ground via the inspection plug. When originally filled it took 3.6-3.7 qts and the specs say capacity is 4 qts.

FWIW - When I sent the guage pictures the communication stalled.

All said and done Hurst doesn't have an answer, though they have been very good to deal with (Jim Goodlad - tech rep). Jim early on in the process offered a new shifter, give a full refund and locate a new OEM shifter to replace the one I ruined at their advice to cut out the seal. They've fulfilled their obligation short of designing a shifter with a seal that insures it won't leak. I have no hard feelings because Jim is a real good guy and in a middleman position between non-enthusiast businessmen and college engineers that may have no real-world field experience.

So I'm returning the Hurst shifter for credit and just installed a White Lightning Shifter from American Powertrain.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-LnTqs85/0/L/IMAG1997-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-NMrFjFs/0/L/IMAG2000-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-CpJk48t/0/L/IMAG1992-L.jpg

A few things that stand out with the White Lightning: The shift pivot arm is slightly shorter which means the shift throw would be even shorter than the very acceptable Hurst unit. The other is the shifter plate uses recessed socket bolts which provide an extra 5/16" of tunnel clearance.

In my conversations with American Powertrain they were very good to deal with and obviously a company very focused on their reputation and customer service. I was told the first few prototypes of the shifter leaked and they Incorporated a seal in the design.

I have yet to test the unit so the verdict is unknown at this time. I can verify that the throw is slightly shorter and feels very precise. After a few hundred miles I should know if it's a keeper.

[Vegas69]

I love the excuse that we have sold a bunch and only a few have leaked. That's because most of them are still sitting in a crate or stalled/slow project. Nobody had brake knockback and now everybody has it. :unibrow:

[Track Junky]

Nice work Sieg. When will we know the results?

[Sieg]

Nice work Sieg. When will we know the results?Hopefully first part of next week depending on Momma Nature. I have a couple other mods I chomping at the bit to test also. :unibrow:

[Sieg]

I'm close to getting Norwood's details current!

I needed to replace a cracked front spoiler and when removing it I remembered spoiler Stielow used on Red Devil and Jackass. I did a little research and head scratching and found a piece of 18 gauge in the garage and started measuring. I already had the OEM replacement spoiler in stock.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-66vtx23/0/L/IMAG1671-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-6Nfmn63/0/L/IMAG1683-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-VKTxG6L/0/L/IMAG1692-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-Jbq5K5S/0/L/IMAG1695-L.jpg

Overall I'm happy with the results and it appears to have reduced the operating temp about 10* in our cooler climate.

[Rybar]

Really cool thread, great story and great mods. Dont ever worry about keeping up with the Joneses I think your car is cool and really like the direction your going with it and the mods. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Really cool thread, great story and great mods. Dont ever worry about keeping up with the Joneses I think your car is cool and really like the direction your going with it and the mods. :thumbsup:
Thank you very much, the input means a lot. :thumbsup:

Keeping up with the Joneses reminds me of the joke about the little guy that gets a hooker in while he's in Vegas and they get to their room and the gal tells him to get undressed while she's in the bathroom getting ready. The poor little guy doesn't have much of an appendage and he's sitting on the edge of the bed eagerly waiting for his date to come out of the bathroom and when she does she busts up laughing pointing at his crouch and says "Who are you going to satisfy with THAT!!"

The little guy looks her right in the eye and says "ME!!!"

[Sieg]

For those interested in the front end alignment specs of a bone stock car lowered about 2.25-2.5" (for reference front wheel opening is 24" from the ground rear 24 5/8") Here's the most desirable aligment specs we could squeeze out of it:

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-L8stLjs/0/X2/69-align-8-2011-X2.jpg

It's more negative camber than I'd like for the street but the objective was gaining max caster.

It's nothing that a $10K check to Blake wouldn't cure. :D

[Track Junky]

Pick up some upper control arms and the dynamics of that car will change drastically. Tubular control arms are basically a band aid on an already troubled front end geometry but they do make a drastic improvement.

I would post my top secret alignment specs but if I did.......well you know :lol:

[Sieg]

So I've added the go-fast wheels and tires, Ricky Bobby alignment, T56 transmission, and racey spoiler so the car is feeling much improved and being driven a bit more aggressively…………..

About 5 weeks ago on a Sunday afternoon I had the first real Oh Sh*t moment I've had in 23 years of owning the car. While navigating a freeway off ramp with two great right/left corners and a short straight to a T intersection I was carrying a bit too much speed. I believe the combination of stock brakes, mediocre pads, and the 18" NT05's added to the situation. When approaching the T I realized the brakes were not exactly scrubbing enough speed :wow: As pedal pressure and weight transfer increased the rear drum brakes started locking the 275 NT05's, at about a 100 yards from the T I went into human ABS mode and started factoring options, none of which were good. I had a green light, a left turn lane with two vehicles, and an open right turn lane, and stopped cross-traffic to use for a berm in needed. Thankfully I scrubbed enough speed to literally back it into the corner and throttle out.

FWIW - My daily driver Tundra brakes would have easily made the stop, but with the Camaro I crossed the available clamping threshold line.

So in the 100 yds after near disaster, I cleaned and cussed myself for getting into the situation and resolved to initiate contact with Tobin at Kore3 as soon as I arrived at home.

After four days of question and answer with Tobin who is over the top good at accurately and honestly assessing customer needs I placed the order. All but one item was in stock and it arrived in four days and I drove up on Friday and picked up the components in person and spent some quality time with Tobin. He is really good people, besides being extremely knowledgeable, he is committed to integrity and genuine customer service.

My idea of a decent shopping trip!
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-bvgZL4N/0/XL/IMAG1800-XL.jpg

So, over the last month I've been relatively busy in the garage.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-mt5wKW7/0/L/IMAG1939-L.jpg http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-ZdB5h5P/0/L/IMAG1884-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-2ZZdxDQ/0/L/IMAG1883-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-BjmvzRd/0/L/IMAG1888-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-vLVhbKP/0/L/IMAG1882-L.jpg http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-R4BPZzR/0/L/IMAG1889-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-PmMDp3W/0/L/IMG3693-L.jpg

Last but not least
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-72BKj6W/0/XL/IMG3690-XL.jpg

Replacing all the front hard lines was actually enjoyable work. I had to fab a bracket for the stock metering valve since I'm still running stock rear drums, thus the reason for the rats nest of hard tubing around the master.

The brakes are the Kore3 GM C5/C6 Front Big Brake kit with upgraded 325 x 32 slotted DBA rotors and Hawk HP Plus pads, Kore3 hubs w/ 1/2 ARP screw in studs.

Finally some Stoppers! :woot: :woot:

Regretfully I have a perfectly good fresh 12 bolt with Moser axles and C-clip eliminator kit that I doesn't make for any decent rear disc options.......to the best of my knowledge. :mad:

[Track Junky]

Thats awesome Sieg. So Tobin didn't have any rears for you? I've been running the same Baer Track/touring set up since 2000. Not anything to brag about on this site but I have no complaints. See if you can pick up the rear touring set up from Matt and Kim at MCB.

[Sieg]

Thats awesome Sieg. So Tobin didn't have any rears for you? I've been running the same Baer Track/touring set up since 2000. Not anything to brag about on this site but I have no complaints. See if you can pick up the rear touring set up from Matt and Kim at MCB.
Tobin has definitely has options, but we both agreed that Ford ends provide the better options and the fronts were manditory. What's your set up and real world experience?

I'm not a fan of knock-back especially on a bike, when you're timing braking points to split seconds, double-tapping to get pedal doesn't make for smooth corner transitions. :D

Having most of my aggressive racing or track experience on motorcycles on asphalt and dirt, weight transfer seriously reduces the amount of rear brake effectiveness. In my observations most people have a lot more rear breaking force than they need or use, though mid or rear engine cars change that opinion. So I could be out thinking myself a little on rear brake systems, but more due to knock-back issues than braking force.

[Track Junky]

Tobin has definitely has options, but we both agreed that Ford ends provide the better options and the fronts were manditory. What's your set up and real world experience?

I'm not a fan of knock-back especially on a bike, when you're timing braking points to split seconds, double-tapping to get pedal doesn't make for smooth corner transitions. :D

Having most of my aggressive racing or track experience on motorcycles on asphalt and dirt, weight transfer seriously reduces the amount of rear brake effectiveness. In my observations most people have a lot more rear breaking force than they need or use, though mid or rear engine cars change that opinion. So I could be out thinking myself a little on rear brake systems, but more due to knock-back issues than braking force.

I'm running a 12 bolt also but not the c-clip eliminators. Heard they tend to leak after awhile. I ordered Baer 6P's and then sold them because they were to heavy. IMO with decent brakes its all about brake pads. Cant give up my brake pad source due to the healthy competition but I gaurantee no one would ever guess who's pads. Awesome stopping power with great modulation and an even, predictable bite. cant relate to the knockback issues either.

[Sieg]

One budget option I've considered is going back to C-clips with new axles which are realtively cheap and that resolves mounting issues and I can go to 1/2" wheel studs to match the new fronts.

What caliper and rotor are you running?

How are your pads regarding rotor wear? The Hawk HP +'s I have don't appear to be rotor friendly and they don't fall in the inexpensive category.

[Track Junky]

One budget option I've considered is going back to C-clips with new axles which are realtively cheap and that resolves mounting issues and I can go to 1/2" wheel studs to match the new fronts.

What caliper and rotor are you running?

How are your pads regarding rotor wear? The Hawk HP +'s I have don't appear to be rotor friendly and they don't fall in the inexpensive category.

1/2" wheel studs are given. I'm trying to remember whos rotors Baer was using for the Track/Touring set up. I want to say Power Slot. Believe the calipers are PBR. I've had them so long I dont remember. I'm still on the original front rotors. Rears I've replaced once.
Have you been miking your calipers? Vince miked my calipers and jotted the number down with a sharpie on the rotor. We must still be within tolerance because he never mentioned I was due for rotors. As often as I drive my car I dont concern myself with rotor friendly pads. IMO they are a wear item but then again I am still on the original fronts and replaced the rears once.

[Sieg]

One thing lead to another.........once I had the OEM brake system removed the steering box that I've never liked was staring at me and it had developed a little leakage. So...............

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-Bwhdfz7/0/M/IMAG1829-M.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-ZbThsdc/0/L/IMAG1831-L.jpg

So off to Lee Manufacturing it went to be rebuilt and altered to 12.7:1 with 32 lb valving.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-28j2wFc/0/M/IMAG1976-M.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-Z2B2KbK/0/L/IMAG1983-L.jpg

Lee Mfg. was great to deal with in every aspect. What was really cool for me was when I called to let them know I was shipping it out I got Tom Lee himself on the phone and ended up talking to him about bikes and cars for well over half and hour. The story about him going Indy as a driver with Micky Thompson in the early 60's was awesome not to mention a memorable honor. :thumbsup:

Back to business - Just finished bleeding the steering and before the end of the night I'll have the front wheels on and car off the stands ready to roll as soon as the weather cooperates. :unibrow:

I'm really looking forward to having these key contact areas of the car upgraded. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

1/2" wheel studs are given. I'm trying to remember whos rotors Baer was using for the Track/Touring set up. I want to say Power Slot. Believe the calipers are PBR. I've had them so long I dont remember. I'm still on the original front rotors. Rears I've replaced once.
Have you been miking your calipers? Vince miked my calipers and jotted the number down with a sharpie on the rotor. We must still be within tolerance because he never mentioned I was due for rotors. As often as I drive my car I dont concern myself with rotor friendly pads. IMO they are a wear item but then again I am still on the original fronts and replaced the rears once.

Good chance they are PBR's which should do fine with the proper rotor material and pad.

Tobin mentioned the slots in the DBA rotors serve as wear indicators, check the minimum service spec vs rotor width minus slot depth.

I need to run up to his place to return a stand alone prop valve, so I'll quiz him more thoroughly on rear options.

Thanks for the input, I can't get too much insight from other enthusiasts perception. :thumbsup:

[Ralphlovs72chev]

I really like your story and your car Norwood. I bought my second 69 in 89 also. I sold it after 17 yrs for many reasons and regreted it big time. I had 2 other projects since then but i still loved my old 69 so i sold them to get my current 69. I emailed you once about your car and vinyl top. Its funny that you want to get rid of yours and im trying to add one to mines. In my opinion vinyl tops are way sexy on 69 Camaros so if you leave it on i wouldnt dislike your car at all... just to prove to you how much i like your car im building it just like your car. Hugger Orange with black vinyl top. Just so you know i love drag lites and have them but i was currently looking at some vintage wheels myself. 18 inch all around... i one day will post pictures. So even if your car is low budget its still awsume and beautifull in some of us guys and im sure your friend is up stairs looking at you with two big thumbs up......

[Sieg]

I really like your story and your car Norwood. I bought my second 69 in 89 also. I sold it after 17 yrs for many reasons and regreted it big time. I had 2 other projects since then but i still loved my old 69 so i sold them to get my current 69. I emailed you once about your car and vinyl top. Its funny that you want to get rid of yours and im trying to add one to mines. In my opinion vinyl tops are way sexy on 69 Camaros so if you leave it on i wouldnt dislike your car at all... just to prove to you how much i like your car im building it just like your car. Hugger Orange with black vinyl top. Just so you know i love drag lites and have them but i was currently looking at some vintage wheels myself. 18 inch all around... i one day will post pictures. So even if your car is low budget its still awsume and beautifull in some of us guys and im sure your friend is up stairs looking at you with two big thumbs up......

Thank you very much. :thumbsup:

One thing I loved about the Draglites was the weight, they are very light compared to the new V-40's.

My description may not be clear, I really don't mind the vinyl top on this car. It only works with certain color schemes and I happen to have one that works.......for me at least. :D

Looking forward to seeing those pictures. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Well it's on the ground and ready test for leaks, bed in brakes, and see how the steering, braking, and shifting mods feel.

Now if Mother Nature would coorperate.........rain through Friday. :(

[jeff71]

How's the spoke to caliper clearance in your new wheels?

[Sieg]

How's the spoke to caliper clearance in your new wheels?
It's about 3-3.5mm.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-pk8CVbg/1/XL/IMAG2023-XL.jpg

[jeff71]

Thanks for the pic. Im looking to order a set of VWW also.

[Sieg]

Thanks for the pic. Im looking to order a set of VWW also.

You're welcome :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Got a break in the weather tonight!

Pads bedded to rotors
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-Z5bJV9J/0/XL/IMAG2030-XL.jpg
Big improvement in clamping power, Kore3 set-up definitely exceeded my expectations. Even with the rear drums they'd suffice for a recreational track day.

The Lee steering box mods (12.7:1 and 32 lb. valving) are exceptional. Lock to lock is 2 1/8 - 2 1/4 and I like it! :thumbsup:

The American Powertrain White Lightning shifter felt very good but..........
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-t3fZ3mj/0/XL/IMAG2034-XL.jpg
See the bubble at 9 o'clock?

In twenty miles it's already leaked more than the Hurst unit in 500.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-j9hmpGt/0/XL/IMAG2035-XL.jpg

So is it me and my trans or :question:

http://d26ya5yqg8yyvs.cloudfront.net/baldy.gif

[Track Junky]

That sucks!!

[jeff71]

Sorry to hear about your t56 issues. On your wheels with the 3-3.5mm clearance that's without any type of spacer correct? Would you say that's enough clearance even under spirited driving and wheel flex?

[Sieg]

Sorry to hear about your t56 issues. On your wheels with the 3-3.5mm clearance that's without any type of spacer correct? Would you say that's enough clearance even under spirited driving and wheel flex?No spacer and it should be plenty of clearance.

[Sieg]

That sucks!!
That's a very polite understatement. :D

[GregWeld]

Not sure how I missed upping my post count by adding major insults in this thread!

Too many trips lately -- I'm going to have to stay home and catch up!

Great story - nice strong head - with weak skin covering....


:thumbsup:

I need to get you those aluminum heads.

[Sieg]

Not sure how I missed upping my post count by adding major insults in this thread!

Too many trips lately -- I'm going to have to stay home and catch up!

Great story - nice strong head - with weak skin covering....


:thumbsup:

I need to get you those aluminum heads.

I was wondering...........your lack of insults was creating a little anxiety. :D

Next Thursday somewhere on I-5?

[Sieg]

Back to the puking shifter dilemma.

It's 5 a.m. and I just finished putting the car on stands and checking the oil level via the fill port. Checked for level, subframe was at 0* no oil weeping from fill port.

The shifter's shift rod mounts in the front position directly over the gear (aka oil slinger)
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/Hurst-Blackjack-Shifter/i-Dr5JGxw/0/XL/IMG3683-XL.jpg

Here is the underside of the Hurst (L) and White Lightning (R)
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-f2nwx6g/0/L/IMAG2001-L.jpg

So the transmission vent does vent based on my hillbilly pressure test, yet when I parked the car after the first test drive at took this picture 2-4 minutes after it was parked you can see the air bubble next to the shift rod pivot ball, watching it live the bubbles developed very slowly, like 2 in 5-10 seconds, so not a lot of pressure but there is pressure.

The Tremec vent line has a venting aluminum cap, I don't know if it's calibrated to control pressure. I do know with compressed air pressure applied to the case my guage peaked at about 2.5 psi.

Is the vent line getting oil slung into it an negating it's function?

Is the cap too restrictive?

Does the shifter need a baffle to protect it from oil sling?

Do these shifter designs need a seal?

[Track Junky]

Seems to me that the slinging oil is the culprit. Can you try moving the shifter to the rear location and drive it?

[Sieg]

Seems to me that the slinging oil is the culprit. Can you try moving the shifter to the rear location and drive it?
Definitely an option. It's times like this that consoles are a PIA, at least the OEM design. :D

Probably not an option for GW unless he had someone in the back seat shifting for him. :unibrow:

http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/peepwall.gif

[GregWeld]

I was wondering...........your lack of insults was creating a little anxiety. :D

Next Thursday somewhere on I-5?


That works!

[MarkM66]

During the pan and gasket swap I snapped a couple pics of the antique lower-end SBC. Nothing fancy, 010 block, balanced assembly, brazed pickup, 2.02 heads that casting #'s match up to 67 375hp Corvette, hydraulic cam has no ID on the front so I'm assuming GM?, Comp Cams Magnum rockers 1.5/1,6 ratio, Mallory Unilite distributor. I don't know what crank or pistons were used, based on traits I'm guessing 10:1 comp. Any insight based on observations would be appreciated. Trash talking is expected too. :unibrow:

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-Rp5fgnk/0/XL/IMGP6491-XL.jpg

I like seeing there was still hatch marks on the cylinder wall in this pic after 23 years.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-dFRcZvX/0/XL/IMGP6492-XL.jpg

Looks like a forged crank.

[Vegas69]

I still like some type of dense flexible product in the shift rod cavity that you can cut the dimensions of square the shifter rod passes through. If it was me, I'd put the stock shifter on it and be done with it.

[Matt@BOS]

I agree with what Todd said. Have ever used the stock one? I'm quite happy with mine but maybe I don't know what I'm missing out on (aside from bubbling fluid, of course) ;)

Matt

[Sieg]

I still like some type of dense flexible product in the shift rod cavity that you can cut the dimensions of square the shifter rod passes through. If it was me, I'd put the stock shifter on it and be done with it.If Hurst Drivelines hadn't instructed me to cut the seal out of my stock unit and fit it to their Blackjack the stock shifter would be on! Makes me wonder why they'd have me do that in advance for a shifter they've hadvery few leak issues with.

I've tried getting one of those stock boots from Tremec.......doesn't appear to be an option for retail customers.

I'm not sure on clearances, but somehow securing fine stainless screen under the shift shaft might work.

I have a call into to American Powertrain, we'll see.

[Vegas69]

I was thinking something flexible around the shift rod.

[Sieg]

I agree with what Todd said. Have ever used the stock one? I'm quite happy with mine but maybe I don't know what I'm missing out on (aside from bubbling fluid, of course) ;)

Matt

The issue is fitment with the OEM console..........which may not be long for this world. Then I can build a custom positioned shift-lever similar to Stielow's.

[Sieg]

I was thinking something flexible around the shift rod.Like fuel-cell foam? If it's heat and ATF resistant.

[Sieg]

Seems to me that the slinging oil is the culprit. Can you try moving the shifter to the rear location and drive it?
Just got off the phone with Jim @ Hurst. That gear turns the same rpm as the output shaft, so it's a slinger. They'd like me to build a baffle to shield the shifter pivot from that gear...........

Also heard Tremec stopped product on the T56 Mag as they can't get shifters from their current supplier.

[Track Junky]

Go figure. Buid it and patent it. Then sell them the patent. :lol:

[Sieg]

Just finished pulling the console and shifter and analyzing the situation. The clearance between the gear and shift-shaft is about 4mm, trying to fit a baffle plate in that space is to close for my comfort. Going to require more thought and sleep. :)

Locating a sealing boot that will slip over the shifter rod that has a flange so I can secure it to the underside of the shifter base might.

In the interim while waiting for American Powertrains response, Hurst I'll put it back together with with the shifter in the rear position away from the gear and see what happens. If that doesn't leak I could opt for:

1) Dump the stock console replace the new carpet, build another tunnel cover, and buy or build a shift lever.

2) Modify/build/buy a new console, build a tunnel cover, and new shifter.

:willy:

[Matt@BOS]

Just finished pulling the console and shifter and analyzing the situation. The clearance between the gear and shift-shaft is about 4mm, trying to fit a baffle plate in that space is to close for my comfort. Going to require more thought and sleep. :)

Locating a sealing boot that will slip over the shifter rod that has a flange so I can secure it to the underside of the shifter base might.

In the interim while waiting for American Powertrains response, Hurst I'll put it back together with with the shifter in the rear position away from the gear and see what happens. If that doesn't leak I could opt for:

1) Dump the stock console replace the new carpet, build another tunnel cover, and buy or build a shift lever.

2) Modify/build/buy a new console, build a tunnel cover, and new shifter.

:willy:

Don't you just love hot rodding?

Having an interior shop build a custom console isn't really that big of a deal, besides then you could have some cup holders :lol:

Matt

[Sieg]

Go figure. Buid it and patent it. Then sell them the patent. :lol:

It actually sounds like Hurst is commited to engineering and incorporating a seal into the Blackjack shifter design. I also learned that the T56 Mag case is designed to accept an internal oil pump and has bosses for external cooler lines.

Currently they are right in the middle of relocating the company and employees from SoCal to new facilities in Sacramento.

I having trouble grasping how an engineer can design a shifter for that trans that in one of two mounting options will sit over the top of a large oil-bathed gear that spins the same rpm as the drive shaft and think that pivot ball design will not need a seal. I'm imagining that area of the trans housing looks somewhat like blender.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/Hurst-Blackjack-Shifter/i-cxPpSsr/0/M/IMG3685-M.jpg

[Sieg]

Don't you just love hot rodding?

Having an interior shop build a custom console isn't really that big of a deal, besides then you could have some cup holders :lol:

Matt

Hot rodding and my project timing. I had to laugh at Skip's comment about sitting back watching and learning from all our trial and errors before starting his own project.

What's frustrating is I discussed my issues with the Blackjack in detail with two key people at American Powertrain and asked them if their shifter would leak and was told it wouldn't. I left a phone message early yesterday and sent an email with pics mid-day, we'll see how they handle it.

I'd like to retain the OEM console and look, if not I'll retro another GM style or possibly build one myself next winter........I really just want to drive my car with the new transmission! :)

[Vegas69]

Get a small piece of thin sheet aluminum. Cut a piece that you can shape around the shift rail to cover the open area. Then drill 4 holes. Two on each side of the shift rod and shift rail. Then safety wire it to the shift rail to baffle the oil.

This is really what this hobby is all about. Taking bastard parts and making them tango.

[Sieg]

Get a small piece of thin sheet aluminum. Cut a piece that you can shape around the shift rail to cover the open area. Then drill 4 holes. Two on each side of the shift rod and shift rail. Then safety wire it to the shift rail to baffle the oil.

This is really what this hobby is all about. Taking bastard parts and making them tango.

I like the way your brain works. :thumbsup:

One challenge besides baffle clearances with the shaft moving fore and aft and left to right, is understanding how the oil flows during operation. I'm guessing the majority of oil may be slung against the case wall by the gear and pushed up the wall to the shifter base. So baffles attached to the case sidewalls may be just as effective. So I'm not sure baffle attached to just the shift rail will resolve the issue. :question:

A boot like this, similar function to the stock Tremec, could easily be made to work if the material will hold up to the lubricant and heat. I believe this one is designed for external application.
http://fairchildind.thomasnet-navigator.com/Asset/F4016.jpg

Ideally I'd like to limit alterations to the $300 shifter vs. altering the $2,700 transmission. :D Though it appears casting the case with side baffles could effectively control this issue.

[Vegas69]

I think your leak is caused by sling directly on the shifter rod from the passenger side and likely some by fluid bouncing off the drives side/front. I find it hard to believe that fluid climbing the wall is your main contributor. The aluminum piece would likely be a permanent fix. Just make sure it has a little clearance on all sides rowing through the gears. I was thinking that you put the shroud on the bottom side of the shift shaft and shape it so it will still shroud while rowing gears. The rubber boot would work just as well with the chance of grinding up some rubber. I don't like the thought of that material getting in the bearings/races/synchros.

[Sieg]

My thinking was there is a lubricant film on the wall that is constantly being feed more fluid and pushed by X volume and velocity. Do I make sense?

[Sieg]

Here's a pic of the White Lightning leakage
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-Lb5cBf3/0/L/IMAG2042-L.jpg

Shift rail and gear
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-dvqP6Tq/0/XL/IMAG2046-XL.jpg

I going to pick up some light guage aluminum and see if I can shape a piece as Todd suggested. Wrap it over the top of the rail with wings projecting forward on either side, set it in Permatex and safety wire it.

Anyone see potential problems?

I really don't want to toast my trans trying to fix someone else's problem.

[GregWeld]

I must have missed it --- why is this not American Powertrains issue??

[Sieg]

I must have missed it --- why is this not American Powertrains issue??

Well technically it's Hurst Drivelines and American Powertrain's.

More Hurst's since they instructed me to ruin my stock Tremec shifter. I never felt right about that move (cutting the sealing boot), but they're the pro's right? Grrrrrrr.

If I hadn't butchered the OEM shifter I'd be up and running. So technically I pucked myself............and no it doesn't feel good. :D

There's two Tremec shifters on eBay for around $175. The principle of having to buy it is what I have to come to grips with. Hurst said they are trying to locate one - insert 80/20 rule here. Hope in one hand crap in the other and see which one fills up first. :lol:

At this point American Powertrain hasn't returned my phone call from yesterday morning or responded to the email I sent last night. :_paranoid

So I've got $640 paid out for two puking shifters and no OEM to fall back on. Hurst will issue a credit, we'll see how it goes with AP. I am fast learning there's a serious lack of integrity in the automotive sector compared to the motorcycle sector.

First decent weekend weather in 5 months isn't helping either. :rofl:

Speaking of fun..........What's the '32's status?

[intocarss]

Hurst/B&M is 10 mins from me. Let me know if I can help

[Sieg]

Hurst/B&M is 10 mins from me. Let me know if I can helpThanks for the offer of assistance. :thumbsup:

Hurst Driveline's new facilities?

Hurst Driveline Conversions
1340 Specialty Drive, Suite A
Vista, CA 92081

Our NEW ADDRESS as of March 1, 2012
1500 Overland Court
West Sacramento, CA 95691

[intocarss]

Dumb question cuz I know nothing about these transmissions

Isn't there gaskets between those plates & If so how is it leaking past them

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/tremacshifter.jpg

[intocarss]

Thanks for the offer of assistance. :thumbsup:

Hurst Driveline's new facilities?

Hurst Driveline Conversions
1340 Specialty Drive, Suite A
Vista, CA 92081

Our NEW ADDRESS as of March 1, 2012
1500 Overland Court
West Sacramento, CA 95691 Hmmm? Since B&M bought Hurst, I just assumed they were under the same roof at B&M now out here in Chatsworh Ca... My bad

[GregWeld]

Speaking of fun..........What's the '32's status?




A thousand pictures tells more than I can say in one word.....




http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/32%20Ford%20Stub%20axle/IMG_2220.jpg

[GregWeld]

As long as I'm jackin' your thread....


I can't use my own dang lift because Rudy's POS Pro Street POS fat tired POS another 'RARE' '69 Camaro POS in waiting on a rear end from Art Morrison....


http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/32%20Ford%20Stub%20axle/IMG_2217.jpg

[camcojb]

time for a bigger shop. :D

[intocarss]

As long as I'm jackin' your thread....


I can't use my own dang lift because Rudy's POS Pro Street POS fat tired POS another 'RARE' '69 Camaro POS in waiting on a rear end from Art Morrison....


Wow, tell us how you really feel about big tire Pro Street cars :D

[GregWeld]

time for a bigger shop. :D



I keep telling Charley that.....

[Sieg]

Hmmm? Since B&M bought Hurst, I just assumed they were under the same roof at B&M now out here in Chatsworh Ca... My badNo worries, sounds like they were keeping it quiet. That's why I posted the info for ya. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

As long as I'm jackin' your thread....

OMG! You've jacked my thread, Jody posted in it, and you referenced Charlie.............I feel like a celebrity, but still in touch with reality and coherent.

Dancing with the stars! :woot: :woot: :woot:

[Sieg]

Dumb question cuz I know nothing about these transmissions

Isn't there gaskets between those plates & If so how is it leaking past them
Milled surfaces, Permatex silicone sealant, 25 lbs torque. It wasn't easy breaking the AP shifter lose, I must have over prepped the surfaces. :)

[GregWeld]

^^^^^^^ MORE TORQUE!


Twist them nuts til they holler uncle....


:rofl: :rofl:

[Sieg]

Twist them nuts til they holler uncle....


:rofl: :rofl:
Careful, down here in Springtuckey that's a common occurrence, holler'n momma happens too. :wow:

[Sieg]

Mounted the White Lightning shifter in the rear position and took the car out for about 30 mile drive.

This was the result.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-CCBGRsf/0/XL/IMAG2051-XL.jpg
Doesn't leak nearly as much in the rear position, I'm guessing 70% less, but this would add up after 500 miles. The Hurst Blackjack would probably leak 70+% less than this when rear mounted or maybe not at all?

Also shot a short video while driving.
TAtF_-ZLnQs

You can see the trans venting through the shifter which makes me wonder how effective the factory vent is. If the vent line isn't baffled could it be getting enough oil thrown on it to partially obstruct its function?

It appears this shifter design for the T56 Magnum needs some type of seal.

On a positive note the rear mount position puts the shifter closer to the wheel.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-HxZPJSJ/0/L/IMAG2052-L.jpg

[GregWeld]

Hey -- Think of it this way..... You could have a big crack in your rear end....


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Sieg]

Hey -- Think of it this way..... You could have a big crack in your rear end....


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Thinking about what you've been through with the '32 definitely takes the edge off my itsey bitsey problems. :D

SAR should design their builds with complimentary air jack systems. :D

[Vegas69]

Quit dickin around and shroud the thing. :D

[FETorino]

Well technically it's Hurst Drivelines and American Powertrain's.

More Hurst's since they instructed me to ruin my stock Tremec shifter. I never felt right about that move (cutting the sealing boot), but they're the pro's right? Grrrrrrr.

At this point American Powertrain hasn't returned my phone call from yesterday morning or responded to the email I sent last night. :_paranoid

So I've got $640 paid out for two puking shifters and no OEM to fall back on. Hurst will issue a credit, we'll see how it goes with AP. I am fast learning there's a serious lack of integrity in the automotive sector compared to the motorcycle sector.



Well I know who I'm not buying my T56 from. Sorry to hear of your troubles. At least your car is on the road to piss you off......

[Sieg]

Quit dickin around and shroud the thing. :D
For some reason if that shroud ended up in the trans I don't believe any of the shifter vendors would provide complimentary warranty service.

Though it should be easier to install a vertical baffle when in the rear position.

At least I can drive it in this configuration with a Maxi-Pad wrapped around it. :D

[Vegas69]

You're going to need that maxi pad with that attitude. :rofl:

[Sieg]

Well I know who I'm not buying my T56 from. Sorry to hear of your troubles. At least your car is on the road to piss you off......
Actually Jim Goodlad at Hurst has been VERY good to deal with. But since Drivelines was acquired by B&M it's big corporate business and Jim is going to retire before long I don't know if they'll invest in a comparable replacement for Jim.

The kit and trans aren't the issue here, just the shifter, and I went that route to retain the factory console. The rear position does put the lever in a better location so I'm not sure what direction I'll head.

[Sieg]

You're going to need that maxi pad with that attitude. :rofl:
http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/action-smiley-027.gif http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/action-smiley-027.gif http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/action-smiley-027.gif

[FETorino]

Yea I forgot to say. Bad shifter bad :mad: but Nice car great story.:thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Yea I forgot to say. Bad shifter bad :mad: but Nice car great story.:thumbsup:Thanks :D :thumbsup:

[American Powertrain]

Mad Matt here with American Powertrain. Nice video on the leak! This a classic case of the vent tube is either kinked or your have a blockage. OR you have too much fluid in the transmission or your transmission is sitting down hill in the back. The shifter box area should not have much fluid in it all. but if it does then the air in the transmission that is whipped up by the gears is looking for a way out. Causing it to push the fluid up to the top. Or again your have too much fluid in the trans.

Thanks
Mad Matt
www.americanpowertrain.com
931-646-4836

[Sieg]

Mad Matt here with American Powertrain. Nice video on the leak! This a classic case of the vent tube is either kinked or your have a blockage. OR you have too much fluid in the transmission or your transmission is sitting down hill in the back. The shifter box area should not have much fluid in it all. but if it does then the air in the transmission that is whipped up by the gears is looking for a way out. Causing it to push the fluid up to the top. Or again your have too much fluid in the trans.

Thanks
Mad Matt
www.americanpowertrain.com
931-646-4836
Thanks for chiming in Matt - Please review these posts in the tread and let me know what you think:
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showpost.php4?p=408146&postcount=33

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showpost.php4?p=408723&postcount=64

:thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Hey -- Think of it this way..... You could have a big crack in your rear end....


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

OMG! I think I jinxed you.

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showpost.php4?p=338428&postcount=481

:rolleyes:

[Sieg]

Still no response to last weeks call and email from American Powertrain today, sent another email today before 11 a.m. requesting return authorization.

[Roberts68]

I know you had said you verified fluid level at least twice and right down to the ounce or decimal point as I recall.

How is fluid level checked/regulated or maintained on a T56? Does it have a fill level plug like on some gear boxes or rear differentials? The kind where level with the plug is "good" to ensure gear submergance which relies on the gears to carry lube up from there? Or are they filled near the top with minimal air gap?

Forgive my ignorance, and I have not read your whole thread yet either.

On a DIY problem solver level, as a last resort if everyone blames your T56 as being an odd ball for not venting right... I was wondering about an additional vent originating right in or on the shifter also. Granted that is not part of the design and won't bode so well for a return credit.:_paranoid

Machining it would be a breeze, but again not with a pending RMA#.

[American Powertrain]

Still no response to last weeks call and email from American Powertrain today, sent another email today before 11 a.m. requesting return authorization.

We tried calling you yesterday no answer. Bill is going to call you now. Sorry for any delay.

[Sieg]

How is fluid level checked/regulated or maintained on a T56? Does it have a fill level plug like on some gear boxes or rear differentials?
Fill plug serves as the guage, provided drivetrain angles are reasonable.

[Sieg]

We tried calling you yesterday no answer. Bill is going to call you now. Sorry for any delay.I had an unidentified call come in at 12:08 PST with no message left. I was in meetings all afternooon, then straight to daughters softball game 25 miles out of town at 6, home at 9. Email can be more effective.

I did speak with Bill this morning at 6:40 and he is sending an RA and possibly a Tremec take-off shiftert which is above and beyond the call of duty. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

OK, after a little shifter sidetrack........this should get the basics of the car documented and we can start speculating for the future. :D

The hind-quarter is nothing special, Global West leafs, DSE plates, 1" blocks and 2* wedges. I believe it's the original 12 both which I had freshened in the early 90's and was talked into the C-clip eliminator set up with Moser axles. Gearing is either 3:30 or3:42 can't remember and the tire/drive-shaft revolution count is tweenered. Fact is the 26.5" tire at 2300-2350 rpm with .63 6th delivers a GPS'd 85 mph.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-c5mHff8/0/L/IMAG2014-L.jpg
The drive-shaft is a 3.5 steel from Inland Empire.

This photo "highlights" the DSE plates, rear drum brakes :_paranoid and Monroe Gas Magnum shocks which LOL were pretty hot stuff when I bought them in '91. :lol:
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-C35wZrz/0/XL/IMAG2010-XL.jpg

Blocks and 2* wedges. I still have a bit of vibration at cruise rpm so I'll probably try 4* wedges and see what happens.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-ZHhkfTm/0/L/IMAG2013-L.jpg

Now that the mediocrity of the car has been somewhat un-robed we can start having some 1st Gen upgrading fun. :yes:

[Sieg]

One of my long-time friends is Grant Springer who was a true icon in Eugene, OR during '74-'76 when I was in high school. I'd get out of school and head straight to his shop to help in anyway possible, sweep, clean, sort, organize, etc. but most importantly stay out of the way of the go-fast guys at the shop. I was fascinated and always watching and listening to everything happening in that 6 man shop. I owe Grant an un-payble debt for being understanding enough to let a punk school kid hang out a learn what has become a life long hobby. I still to this day cherish a 7/16 wrench he ground down, torched, and bent, to as he said get those F'ing Pontiac headers unbolted. The Pontiac was mine, a silver 66 GTO, which was my first car in '76. I spent damn near every dollar I made on that car and a the Grant Springer Racing Engine in it was my pride and joy.

Grass roots drag and circle track boat racing motors were Grants forte back then. Here's a couple cool nostalgic articles about NW Funny Car Racing in the 70's. The #13 Springer & Price car is referenced in text only.
http://capracing.com/sixtyfour.html

http://www.capracing.com/nwnitro.htm

I got involved wrenching and pitting on an open-comp circle track car for a friends older brother in the late 70's and early 80's. Grant was building all the competitive roundy-round motors in the area. Our 70 Nova, was a Redfield coil over chassis, Franklin quick-change, Brodix headed, Carillo rodded SBC top five car in the area. Grant decided to build his own car, a 73 Camaro body with his custom designed truck-arm chassis and this little motor he has laying around the shop from a boat customer that had fallen on hard times and could pay his debt. It was a ZL1 that Grant had stroked to 390ish spec that would spin up over 9K. Never will I forget hearing and watching that car, stupid fast........when it would hooked up. :unibrow:

Time passed, business got crappy and Grant decided to put himself through college to learn about computers, he ended up working for Intel in Portland for about 5 years until he couldn't stand it any longer. He'd kept all his equipment in storage, where, I'm not sure. About 9 years ago he opened up shop again about 8 blocks from his original shop. Here's a few pics I snapped the other day.

Grant, now 68, on the right teaching another young kid the trade
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-rFRGcFz/0/L/IMAG2027-L.jpg

Tools of the original trade
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-kFWMKg6/0/L/IMAG2025-L.jpg

Home-made flow bench that tells no lies
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-9QHBSLs/0/L/IMAG2026-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-VMXLr2k/0/L/IMAG2024-L.jpg

Couple little Big M heads with 2.40" intakes off a 630 inch straight-liner
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-NVpdC3S/0/XL/IMAG2029-XL.jpg

One thing I admire is even though Grant worked as a "designer" for Intel, all his tools of the trade are manual...........no CNC. I was checking his current schedule and there's 31 hand-built motors currently in progress.

So there's a little more of my life history blended into a project named Norwood. :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

My car came with the same or similar Monroe shocks you posted and a 2" block. I went down to a 1" and a coilover. Tremendous difference. :thumbsup: I have not seen the wedges employed before.

Very cool story and pics on the old timer! :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

Cool story. Nothing like learning form the old cream of the crop. I am very fortunate to have learned from a couple of eng building/ racing legends. First Dick Landy then Lambeck Our equipment is pretty much the same as in those pics. Some of the stories of yesteryear racing and "the way we used to do it" I get to hear are priceless

Keep it coming Seig

[Roberts68]

...I have not seen the wedges employed before.

I wondered how common that was, and while it is often done with lifts and 4x4's I have not encountered wedges in my meager experience...that I noticed or observed.

It would indeed make sense, for the same reasons adjusting driveline angle.
My 79 Bronco lift had 4* blocks for a 4" Lift to promote the same pinion angle as I recall.

Good Stuff Seig.
Do you know what GW leaf you have? I was recommended the L2-R2 which is not a StarWars droid but "lowers 2 and has a reverse eye."

[Ron in SoCal]

Great story Sieg - prob my favorite post in this thread so far. Just like me, those early experiences make you and your car what it is today...:thumbsup:

Cool story. Nothing like learning form the old cream of the crop. I am very fortunate to have learned from a couple of eng building/ racing legends. First Dick Landy then Lambeck Our equipment is pretty much the same as in those pics. Some of the stories of yesteryear racing and "the way we used to do it" I get to hear are priceless

Keep it coming Seig

Jerr - You really are fortunate to have two of the all time best next to you. Don't ever use the wrong wrench or Bob'll take your head off! Ask Mikey about that one...:D Did you hang out w Landy over in VN - Saticoy and Woodman? In the very early days, he'd fire up his motors and the whole neighborhood would rumble.

[Sieg]

Do you know what GW leaf you have? I was recommended the L2-R2 which is not a StarWars droid but "lowers 2 and has a reverse eye."
I bought them before they had L designation, they were as firm and low as they had at the time and still not low enough, but they are firm. With the old Goodyear Eagles on the rear Norwood was turned into a drifter. :D

[Sieg]

Very cool story and pics on the old timer! :thumbsup:

Keep it coming Sieg

Great story Sieg - prob my favorite post in this thread so far. Just like me, those early experiences make you and your car what it is today...:thumbsup:

Thanks "Gentlemen" :unibrow:

What's disappointing is a lot of memories of the early days were before compact camera's and digital. In comparison, today's world makes it so easy to create and archive a photographic time-line of your life. I've always dabbled in photography and have boxes of prints, I need to go through them again and scan more of the automotive images to digital.

[intocarss]

Great story Sieg - prob my favorite post in this thread so far. Just like me, those early experiences make you and your car what it is today...:thumbsup:



Jerr - You really are fortunate to have two of the all time best next to you. Don't ever use the wrong wrench or Bob'll take your head off! Ask Mikey about that one...:D Did you hang out w Landy over in VN - Saticoy and Woodman? In the very early days, he'd fire up his motors and the whole neighborhood would rumble. HA HA I know all to well about Bob and his antics Bob hates lock washers too LOL.. I worked for The Landys over in Northridge back in the late 80's And like Seig I too crewed for a few circle track guys over at Saugus speedway back in the day

Ok back to Seigs build........................

[Sieg]

Some may wonder why the name Norwood, the obvious would be the manufacturing facility which is the primary reason but the secondary reason is being born in May of 1958 I feel fortunate to have grown up in what I feel was the greatest segment of the cartoon era and Norwood has a little similarity to character names of the period.........IMO. Some may find that stupid and I'm quite OK with that, but I wasn't naming the car Claude. :D

ccgWR_7bq9A

[intocarss]

May 1961 here. Taz is my co pilot and OLD SCHOOL CARTOONS ROCK!!!

[Sieg]

May 1961 here. Taz is my co pilot and OLD SCHOOL CARTOONS ROCK!!!Atta Boy! :thumbsup:

From a northerner's casual observation there's a few boys on this forum I'd like to invite out on my birthday for a little celebrating with hidden video of course...........Cinco de Mayo. :unibrow:

[Track Junky]

My car came with the same or similar Monroe shocks you posted and a 2" block. I went down to a 1" and a coilover. Tremendous difference. :thumbsup: I have not seen the wedges employed before.

Very cool story and pics on the old timer! :thumbsup:

I've had to utilize wedges also.

You running coil overs front and back?? I knew you were holding out :cool:

[Track Junky]

I bought them before they had L designation, they were as firm and low as they had at the time and still not low enough, but they are firm. With the old Goodyear Eagles on the rear Norwood was turned into a drifter. :D

I picked mine up in 2000. I had Doug de-arch them another inch. So far I am happy with them.

Great story BTW. Must have been a great time working with some legends.

Wanted to mention from an old post of yours but forgot, you want to match caster up front. Uneven caster could cause straight line instability at higher speeds.

[Sieg]

I picked mine up in 2000. I had Doug de-arch them another inch. So far I am happy with them.

Great story BTW. Must have been a great time working with some legends.

Wanted to mention from an old post of yours but forgot, you want to match caster up front. Uneven caster could cause straight line instability at higher speeds.

Thanks! The springs are OK now with the blocks (aka bandaid's =)

As the saying goes Grant forgets more than I'll ever know. :D

Regarding the 3.9/4.3/0.4 caster settings, are you refering to equal on R&L, or obtaining 0.0 cross-caster??

[Track Junky]

Yes sir. Caster should be the same on the left and right side. As much as you can get but I know the control arms and attatchment points limit the amount of positive caster. Can you check something for me? What I have noticed on first gen subframes is that the attatchment for the upper control arm at front on the passenger side is bent towards the engine bay. Is yours like that?

[Sieg]

So I made a little drug buy at a near by I-5 exit on Thursday..........

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-PLbfnLL/0/L/IMAG2082-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-gkLGV5g/0/M/IMAG2084-M.jpg

I can say no to most drugs, but these are different. What they'll lead me into more than a little concerning. :rolleyes:

Thanks Greg! :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

Yeah bra, dats da medicine :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Yes sir. Caster should be the same on the left and right side. As much as you can get but I know the control arms and attatchment points limit the amount of positive caster. Can you check something for me? What I have noticed on first gen subframes is that the attatchment for the upper control arm at front on the passenger side is bent towards the engine bay. Is yours like that?

It doesn't really look bent inward, but there are no shims in in the front R.
Here's an overhead of the left:
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-kszX8wN/0/L/IMAG2089-L.jpg

Here's the right:
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-VbgqpMT/0/XL/IMAG2090-XL.jpg

Note: My subframe is questionable and it's ugly. I would love to replace it with a Canadian unit eh? But based on alignment specs there are other priorities at the front of my capital expenditures line. :(

Here's proof of the ugly:
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-RkxMm44/0/M/IMAG2091-M.jpg

Think Norwood may have been in one or more abusive relationships at some point in his life? Or maybe just a bad one-nighter? :rolleyes:

[Sieg]

Yeah bra, dats da medicine :thumbsup:
Add one of these:
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-TG8HC7C/0/L/IMAG2079-L.jpg

And a few of these:
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-BJbSfpW/0/L/IMAG2077-L.jpg

Add a roller bump-stick from Bullet, an RPM Air gap and 750 QFT, and a little TLC from Springer Racing and you have the makings of an Old Skool OBA. :unibrow:

[Track Junky]

Nice....what are the specs on the cam? Didn't get details on the heads either....

[Sieg]

Nice....what are the specs on the cam? Didn't get details on the heads either....
Those pics are conveniently another 383 customers parts. Heads are older AFR 190's w/ 2.00/1.60 70+ cc chambers, they've been decked so they need to be cc'd. Grant's working up some numbers for me. If I can make it happen the cam would be custom grind to his specs, 520 lift range, 10:1 comp.

[Track Junky]

I hear AFR's are the best heads out of the box. My cam is custom ground with an LSX firing order. Might want to ask yor builder about that. Also, I would recommend a Victor Jr Intake. I used mine on the street for years with a cam that was .250 duration at .050 and it was fine. Especially since your running a 5 speed. If I was running a 5 speed I would probably go to a 3.73 gear.

[Sieg]

I hear AFR's are the best heads out of the box. My cam is custom ground with an LSX firing order. Might want to ask yor builder about that. Also, I would recommend a Victor Jr Intake. I used mine on the street for years with a cam that was .250 duration at .050 and it was fine. Especially since your running a 5 speed. If I was running a 5 speed I would probably go to a 3.73 gear.

Thanks for reminding me, I remember reading your LSX firing order, forgot all about it. How much different does it sound compared to conventional?

Grant has been a proponent of the Victor Series for years, but he's the one that sold me on the Air Gap, he said they're producing equal or better numbers, with a slight look of amazement on his face.

I'm running a T56 Mag close ratio, .63 6th. Rear gear will end up at 3.55-3:73 leaning to the later. I tend to prefer a slightly taller gear, especially on my track and offroad bikes. Poor mans traction control. :D

[Track Junky]

You ever hear the drone from a modified LSX? I get that at a certain rpm. alot of guys dont like that but I think it sounds pretty cool. More like a howl rather than a drone.

When I had my air gap back in the day I dyno tuned my car. Switched to a Victor JR and re-dynoed. The Victor gave me 50 more hp. no lie.

When picking rear gears think about the top speed you will be running at the end of the longest straight of a track that you run at peak or max rpm.

With a 25.6" tire and 3.42 gears 145 mph is my top speed at 6500 rpm. I picked that speed according to Thunder Hill. So far I've hit 6200 rpm at the end of the straight which puts me at around 139-140 mph. A lttle more wheel time and some aero work I should hit my mark.

[Flash68]

Thanks for reminding me, I remember reading your LSX firing order, forgot all about it. How much different does it sound compared to conventional?



Since it was brought up, and you are deciding or having decided for you which route to take, I am curious on the differences/benefits of the LSx, 4-7 swap, and "Cleveland" firing orders. I just learned of the "Cleveland" firing order last week (also called the 4 cylinder swap).

:lateral:

[Sieg]

You ever hear the drone from a modified LSX? I get that at a certain rpm. alot of guys dont like that but I think it sounds pretty cool. More like a howl rather than a drone.

When I had my air gap back in the day I dyno tuned my car. Switched to a Victor JR and re-dynoed. The Victor gave me 50 more hp. no lie.

When picking rear gears think about the top speed you will be running at the end of the longest straight of a track that you run at peak or max rpm.

With a 25.6" tire and 3.42 gears 145 mph is my top speed at 6500 rpm. I picked that speed according to Thunder Hill. So far I've hit 6200 rpm at the end of the straight which puts me at around 139-140 mph. A lttle more wheel time and some aero work I should hit my mark.
I haven't heard the LSx in person. LSx, 4-7 and Cleveland will make for good discussion at the shop.

I've been out of the market a while, how many versions/revisions of the Air Gap are there? Performer and Performer RPM are the two I'm aware of.

My car has a late 80's Torker II on it, the revised version is rumored to be much better.

The Victor on a SBC looks proper :yes:

I'll assume your gearing/rpm numbers are based on 1:1 final drive? My intention is to base the track gearing off the 1:1 4th gear. 5th and 6th are recreational/transport gears IMO. :D

[Flash68]

I haven't heard the LSx in person. LSx, 4-7 and Cleveland will make for good discussion at the shop.

I've been out of the market a while, how many versions/revisions of the Air Gap are there? Performer and Performer RPM are the two I'm aware of.

My car has a late 80's Torker II on it, the revised version is rumored to be much better.

The Victor on a SBC looks proper :yes:

I'll assume your gearing/rpm numbers are based on 1:1 final drive? My intention is to base the track gearing off the 1:1 4th gear. 5th and 6th are recreational/transport gears IMO. :D

I am aware of the original Air Gap and then one update, but maybe there is more.

I had a Torker on my Pontiac motor in high school. :thumbsup:

And yeah 4th gear 1:1 (I'll answer for G) as I know he has a beefed up Muncie / Spec 25.

The Victor Jr and Super Victor are great looking intakes I agree. :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

I haven't heard the LSx in person. LSx, 4-7 and Cleveland will make for good discussion at the shop.

I've been out of the market a while, how many versions/revisions of the Air Gap are there? Performer and Performer RPM are the two I'm aware of.

My car has a late 80's Torker II on it, the revised version is rumored to be much better.

The Victor on a SBC looks proper :yes:

I'll assume your gearing/rpm numbers are based on 1:1 final drive? My intention is to base the track gearing off the 1:1 4th gear. 5th and 6th are recreational/transport gears IMO. :D

LS swaps 4-3 with 7-2 in the firing order. I'm no engineer but I'm assuming it's a better arrangement.

Yes, 1:1 final. Running standard Muncie gearing in trans.

[Sieg]

I had a Torker on my Pontiac motor in high school. :thumbsup:

Grant put an Offy Dual Plane on Pontiac motor he built for me in '78. :D

[Sieg]

I had an unidentified call come in at 12:08 PST with no message left. I was in meetings all afternooon, then straight to daughters softball game 25 miles out of town at 6, home at 9. Email can be more effective.

I did speak with Bill this morning at 6:40 and he is sending an RA and possibly a Tremec take-off shifter which is above and beyond the call of duty. :thumbsup:

Received the take-off shifter today with a RA slip from American Powertrain. Appreciate the quick turn around time. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Since it was brought up, and you are deciding or having decided for you which route to take, I am curious on the differences/benefits of the LSx, 4-7 swap, and "Cleveland" firing orders. I just learned of the "Cleveland" firing order last week (also called the 4 cylinder swap).

:lateral:
So I had the swap discussion at lunch, the primary reason it's desireable is to reduce the load on lightened small journal cranks. Doesn't sound like it's desirable with standard V8 intakes like an Air Gap or Victor. Individual runner systems are required.

Here's one of Grant's legal 360 motors at our local dirt track this weekend, Kyle Miller is the kid (19) driving from pole in the #10 car. He's good but also has a slight horsepower advantage. :unibrow:

l3KzwdF_KM0

[Sieg]

Added another project to the que today. Thanks for the connection GW. :thumbsup:

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-pFd6SQL/1/L/IMAG2169-L.jpg

[GregWeld]

Nice....... "rod".....


:rofl:

[waynieZ]

Nice....... "rod".....


:rofl:

Yes but it took 4 hours to get it back on the ground

[Track Junky]

Care to elaborate Mr Sieg or are you going to leave us all hangin' :D

[FETorino]

Care to elaborate Mr Sieg or are you going to leave us all hangin' :D

GW hooked him up with some wide Intros so he needed to swap subframes. :unibrow:

[Sieg]

Nice....... "rod".....


:rofl:
Thank you, thank you very much. 120" x 3" of old growth stainless.
:D

[Vegas69]

GW hooked him up with some wide Intros so he needed to swap subframes. :unibrow:

:beathorse :beathorse

[Sieg]

Yes but it took 4 hours to get it back on the ground
It's been like that for 39 years, doc said there's nothing to worry about.

Care to elaborate Mr Sieg or are you going to leave us all hangin' :D
Sure!

GW hooked him up with some wide Intros so he needed to swap subframes. :unibrow:

I'm hoping he can hook me up with some 22" gold wires. :unibrow:

[FETorino]

:beathorse :beathorse

Yea I should have gone with a ride "height" joke :D

Seig

Cough it up what is your secret other than that huge stainless rod. :unibrow:

[Sieg]

Yea I should have gone with a ride "height" joke :D

Seig

Cough it up what is your secret other than that huge stainless rod. :unibrow:

You meant ride short, right?

The objective is to leisurely achieve proper geometry and retain semi-stock appearance.

[Sieg]

Sorry for the delay on details, I just got back from a hunting trip with my son out in the Oregon high desert.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Paisley-2012/i-CgqPW53/0/L/IMAG2219-L.jpg

Here's my tenative plan to be enacted as time and money allow. Strip the recently acquired subframe assembly down to the bare frame and clean it and detail the slop from the factory welds. Acquire the factory dimensions and straighten as required.

The current vision is to install a SpeedTech Chicane kit, SpeedTech upper and lower arms, RideTech single adjustable shocks, AFX tall spindles, new tie-rod ends with SpeedTech sleeves, and use the Hotchkis tubular sway bar that came with the subframe. Then I'll have the frame media blasted and powder coated or paint with POR or equivalent, I'm leaning to POR at this time.

I'd appreciate hearing the pro's and con's of this plan as I have no first hand experience with those components.

I'll also have for sale a relatively new stock steering box, upper and lower control arms, cross member, Wilwood 4 piston calipers, pads, hubs, and rotors, and Hotchkis lowered big-block springs. I'll have more details when I get it disassembled since I received the subframe a couple hours before I left town on Thursday.

Thanks :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

Who cares about the car, what varmints are you plucking?

[Sieg]

Who cares about the car, what varmints are you plucking?
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Paisley-2012/i-m8NmWnC/1/M/IMAG2236-M.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Paisley-2012/i-vtNK5jk/2/XL/IMAG2186-XL.jpg

:unibrow:

If you look at 2 o'clock and 6' from my dogs head in this shot you'll see one:
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Paisley-2012/i-RkvVGZR/1/O/IMAG2238.jpg

[Vegas69]

I give... An old fat guy and a wore out truck? :lol:

[Sieg]

I give... An old fat guy and a wore out truck? :lol:Deviation of a Belding Squirrel that invade the alfalfa pivots. On a good day the 5 of us will shoot 600-900 rounds per day per man. Typical yardage is 75-200 with .17 HMR and 100-450 for center fire, typically .17 Fireball, .204 Ruger, and .223.

This was the last shoot of the year. I've been going twice a year for going on 20 years now.

Car time now!

[Vegas69]

That sounds like a blast. My Dad just went out to Western Nebraska to shoot some prarie dogs.

[Sieg]

Here's my tenative plan to be enacted as time and money allow. Strip the recently acquired subframe assembly down to the bare frame and clean it and detail the slop from the factory welds. Acquire the factory dimensions and straighten as required.

The current vision is to install a SpeedTech Chicane kit, SpeedTech upper and lower arms, RideTech single adjustable shocks, AFX tall spindles, new tie-rod ends with SpeedTech sleeves, and use the Hotchkis tubular sway bar that came with the subframe. Then I'll have the frame media blasted and powder coated or paint with POR or equivalent, I'm leaning to POR at this time.

I'd appreciate hearing the pro's and con's of this plan as I have no first hand experience with those components.

I'll also have for sale a relatively new stock steering box, upper and lower control arms, cross member, Wilwood 4 piston calipers, pads, hubs, and rotors, and Hotchkis lowered big-block springs. I'll have more details when I get it disassembled since I received the subframe a couple hours before I left town on Thursday.

Thanks :thumbsup:
One possible deviation to this plan would be using SPC upper arms instead of SpeedTech. Would the adjustability the SPC's offer be worthwhile?

[Roberts68]

Sieg,
I have spent a great deal of time waffling back/forth between Speedtech and Spc Upper control arms. Disclaimer, I have no experience with either... only what I have read or has been discussed and recommended to me.

As for the Speedtechs, Roger at Speedtech told me that with the Tall Spindle I would want the flatter High Clearance uppers they make as opposed to the standard ones. That might be something you want to check on directly.

Question, where did you get your coated U-bolts and are they 1/2 or 7/16?

Nice! Father/Son trigger time is the best!

[Sieg]

As for the Speedtechs, Roger at Speedtech told me that with the Tall Spindle I would want the flatter High Clearance uppers they make as opposed to the standard ones. That might be something you want to check on directly.

Question, where did you get your coated U-bolts and are they 1/2 or 7/16?

Nice! Father/Son trigger time is the best!
Covered on the HC uppers. :thumbsup:

U-bolts are 1/2" from DSE: http://www.detroitspeed.com/1967-1969%20Camaro-Firebird-Products/040701-hd-axle-u-blts.html

The varmint hunts are quality time. :thumbsup:

[Roberts68]

U-bolts are 1/2" from DSE: http://www.detroitspeed.com/1967-1969%20Camaro-Firebird-Products/040701-hd-axle-u-blts.html


As I suspected. Thank you.
I spoke with someone at DSE last week that told me I might have clearance issues tightening the nut near the bend for the shock tab with the 1/2". That and I would have to drill the plates out to 1/2" which is easily done.

I take it there is no such clearance nuisance?

[Sieg]

My plates were 7/16 and I drilled them , it's tight at the bend but far from impossible.

[Flash68]

That sounds like a blast. My Dad just went out to Western Nebraska to shoot some prairie dogs.

Now that's a little something I know a little something about. I'm not sure which was more fun... gittin em with a .310 or a .22 :lol:


The current vision is to install a SpeedTech Chicane kit, SpeedTech upper and lower arms, RideTech single adjustable shocks, AFX tall spindles, new tie-rod ends with SpeedTech sleeves, and use the Hotchkis tubular sway bar that came with the subframe. Then I'll have the frame media blasted and powder coated or paint with POR or equivalent, I'm leaning to POR at this time.

I'd appreciate hearing the pro's and con's of this plan as I have no first hand experience with those components.

I'll also have for sale a relatively new stock steering box, upper and lower control arms, cross member, Wilwood 4 piston calipers, pads, hubs, and rotors, and Hotchkis lowered big-block springs. I'll have more details when I get it disassembled since I received the subframe a couple hours before I left town on Thursday.

Thanks :thumbsup:

Scott, nice score. As you know since we talked about it, I have been running a very similar setup to what you lay out here. And I can tell you it was very hard to let this go with as well as it did. I think you have a well thought out plan and is just about as good as you can possibly get with a factory sub. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Any input on the SpeedTech uppers vs. the SPC's?

[Track Junky]

Sieg, before you do anything to that subframe give Mark Savitske a call. He wrote the book,"How to make a muscle car handle". Buy the book, then call him. He knows his business.
I never heard of the guy until about a couple months ago. Jim Fay(the guy that makes the Fays 2 watts link)gave me his phone number and we talked for about an hour. Great guy with alot of great info. He also has a web site. I hope I didn't lose his contact info. If I find his number I will send it to you via PM.

EDIT: go to scandc.com. Found his phone number.

[Sieg]

What about this front suspension set up:

SPC uppers with delrin bushings screw in Howe tall ball joints
SPC lowers for coil springs with ride height adjusters
Howe tall tie rod ends
VariShock QS2 double adjustable
650 lb -2" lower coils (existing, possibly 680 lb)
Hotchkis 1 1/8 bar (existing)
Stock spindles (existing)


As I understand it this would get the geometry close to AFX tall spindles, neutralize bump-steer, provide the same shock travel as a coil-over and gain compression and rebond dampening adjustment.

If I want to take the geometry to the next level I can add the AFX spindles and change the studs in the Howe ball joints.

[bdahlg68]

What about this front suspension set up:

SPC uppers with delrin bushings screw in Howe tall ball joints
SPC lowers for coil springs with ride height adjusters
Howe tall tie rod ends
VariShock QS2 double adjustable
650 lb 2+" lower coils (existing, possibly 680 lb)
Hotchkis 1 1/8 bar (existing)
Stock spindles (existing)


As I understand it this would get the geometry close to AFX tall spindles, neutralize bump-steer, provide the same shock travel as a coil-over and gain compression and rebond dampening adjustment.

If I want to take the geometry to the next level I can add the AFX spindles and change the studs in the Howe ball joints.

Or, you could buy my JRS front suspension! :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Or, you could buy my JRS front suspension! :thumbsup:

If money wasn't an issue you're right! :yes:

[Sieg]

Might have just scored an old skool 3970010 block that's .30 w/10K miles on the bore job. Another $6-7K and Huston we have a stroker. :unibrow:

:woot:

[Roberts68]

I have SPC lowers with the ride height kit on the shelf, I bought them last summer. I like the ride height adjustability and the caster to hopefully stay centered in the wheelwell. I don't know how big of concern that is for some but it made sense when comparing apples and oranges.

I took that into consideration for about 3 seconds when I jumped on the bargain I felt I got them for.:unibrow:

I still haven't nabbed any upper control arms but the "needs" list is getting a little shorter on the big items... for now.

I was confused by your "650 lb 2+" lower coils (existing, possibly 680 lb)" comment.

2+" :question:

With my still evolving kit I anticipate a front coil spring change. The ATS spindles I have incorporate a 7/8" drop. I have Hotchkis 2" drop coils now. Then the SPC lowers have 1" drop, but I read it is more like a -1.5" to +1.5" range so 3" of leeway to make corrections. I would prefer to have a spring that puts me in the middle of that and then work from there to tune, mostly for appearance.

As it is, I am looking at 3 7/8" advertised drop but we all know it varies from car to car.

[Sieg]

I was confused by your "650 lb 2+" lower coils (existing, possibly 680 lb)" comment.

2+" :question:
Edited to reflect -2 (lower) oops. :(

Not sure on the 1" lower SC&C doesn't reflect that and Mark never mentioned they were lower in our conversation. Hopefully not, I don't need lower. http://scandc.com/new/node/81

[Roberts68]

Read the intro here Sieg. Sorry I am not doing hyperlinks(on my phone), please paste them into your browser if they aren't live when you click them.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Specialty-Products/SPC-Tubular-Lower-Control-Arms/1045084/10002/-1

The 1" drop is negated by using various optional plates as needed.

Have you read this yet?

http://scandc.com/new/node/731

I think they are a good choice.

[Sieg]

Might have just scored an old skool 3970010 block that's .30 w/10K miles on the bore job. Another $6-7K and Huston we have a stroker. :unibrow:

:woot:

Thought I scored a block, got it home and wiped it down and found this........
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-NTcwNmj/0/L/IMAG2264-L.jpg
Surprised I missed it during the onsite inspection as I looked the valley area over pretty close. Oil film and lighting must have concealed it. Be interesting to see how the seller responds now that he has my cash.

[Flash68]

dangit dude that sucks. hope you can make good on it with the seller. you convinced he knew about it?

[Roberts68]

Bummer!

Good luck with the seller. I hope he is a decent guy.

[Sieg]

you convinced he knew about it?
Hard to say, some people are much better liars than I am. In this economy people are desperate......I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt until he responds to the return request I sent with photo.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

that sucks, let me know if you need a motor. I have a complete stroker engine that I was going to use but I found an LS2.
Short block is assembled.

[intocarss]

That sucks seig. Is that block made in Mexico? Those are known to crack in the lifter valley.. BTW Bob is selling a brand new sbc bow tie block, if you only need the block

[Vegas69]

My Zl1 block works great, just saying.

[GregWeld]

Scott!

That so sucks bilge water!

I have a far better BBC version I will sell you -- numbers matching from my 67 Vette...


http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Corvette/VetteandCamaro018.jpg


http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Corvette/CorvetteBlock001.jpg

[Sieg]

Scott!

That so sucks bilge water!

I have a far better BBC version I will sell you -- numbers matching from my 67 Vette...
Save those special deals for BB Todd. :unibrow:

[Sieg]

My Zl1 block works great, just saying.

I wish I had it too.


So I could sell it and buy a good small block. :lol:

[Sieg]

dangit dude that sucks. hope you can make good on it with the seller. you convinced he knew about it?

Bummer!

Good luck with the seller. I hope he is a decent guy.

Hard to say, some people are much better liars than I am. In this economy people are desperate......I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt until he responds to the return request I sent with photo.

From seller:
o man I'm so sorry I truly didn't have any idea of that. I guess i should have looked at it closer. are you sure that's a crack and not a casting mark?

well if it is for sure then, i owe you a full refund. was that were the rusty water looking puddle was?
-----------------
I feel bad for the guy becasue he's out of work and needs the money.

It wasn't easy to spot, the light conditions and slight oil/dust film must have camouflaged it.

[Sieg]

that sucks, let me know if you need a motor. I have a complete stroker engine that I was going to use but I found an LS2.
Short block is assembled.

Pm me the details?

That sucks seig. Is that block made in Mexico? Those are known to crack in the lifter valley.. BTW Bob is selling a brand new sbc bow tie block, if you only need the block

It's one of the 3970010 castings, haven't check the date code, he thought it was '87.

That Bowtie is probably way out of my $ range, I don't need a killer block as the objective is a reliable 500ish hp 6,8-7K rpm peak.

[FETorino]

I don't need a killer block as the objective is a reliable 500ish hp 6,8-7K rpm peak.

Really will you feel better when you crack your own block? :rolleyes: Build a nice shortblock, if not when you want to up the ante you'll have to start all over.:D

[Flash68]

Good to see that response from the seller. :thumbsup:

So what is your expected timeline for this 500hp motor you want to build? And like Rob in the REAL Socal (:lol:) says, will it satisfy you long enough? We know about your affinity for speed and adrenaline from the biking days. :unibrow:

[Sieg]

Really will you feel better when you crack your own block? :rolleyes: Build a nice shortblock, if not when you want to up the ante you'll have to start all over.:DOne option I'm looking at is the Dart block they machine exclusively for EPW, slightly detuned version of the Little M.
I'm not getting a Chinese block like Dave. :rofl:

[Flash68]

One option I'm looking at is the Dart block they machine exclusively for EPW, slightly detuned version of the Little M.
I'm not getting a Chinese block like Dave. :rofl:

Who is EPW?

I got one of the later PBM's for the record... made in the USA! :woot:

[Sieg]

Good to see that response from the seller. :thumbsup:

So what is your expected timeline for this 500hp motor you want to build? And like Rob in the REAL Socal (:lol:) says, will it satisfy you long enough? We know about your affinity for speed and adrenaline from the biking days. :unibrow:

Took the 70 mile trip again today and swapped the block for my cash. :thumbsup:

I'm convinced it was an honest mistake. I feel sorry for they guy he needs the money and didn't really want to sell the block. Now he has neither.

For a street and occational track / autocross car an honest 500 at the crank is adequate enough to get the car impounded and myself thrown in jail anyway. :yes:

[Sieg]

Who is EPW?

I got one of the later PBM's for the record... made in the USA! :woot:

Just kidding. You have a real block and it's the right size! :thumbsup:

Engine Parts Warehouse: http://www.enginepartswarehouse.com/engineparts.html

[Flash68]

I'm curious of this block... it's made specifically for them? What's the dealio?

I thought you were talking about the SHP block.

[Sieg]

I'm curious of this block... it's made specifically for them? What's the dealio?

I thought you were talking about the SHP block.
It's made exclusively for them. I don't have all the specifics yet, but at approx. $1700 they appear to be a good deal compared to the Little M at least for my needs.

[Flash68]

It's made exclusively for them. I don't have all the specifics yet, but at approx. $1700 they appear to be a good deal compared to the Little M at least for my needs.

At that price I'm sure it'll be good for more power when you want to upgrade 6 months after you finish it. :D

[Sieg]

At that price I'm sure it'll be good for more power when you want to upgrade 6 months after you finish it. :DI'm mature. :rofl:

[Flash68]

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/35ip3c3.gif

[GregWeld]

I'm mature. :rofl:



I'm the exact opposite of that..... thus have a Dart Little M block -- Forged crank - great rods etc because I'm going to abuse the crap out of 'em as often as possible. Period.


Look into the Dart short block program.... simple and easy - cost effective.

[Sieg]

I'm the exact opposite of that..... thus have a Dart Little M block -- Forged crank - great rods etc because I'm going to abuse the crap out of 'em as often as possible. Period.

Too bad Dart doesn't make rear ends for '32's :rofl:

[GregWeld]

Too bad Dart doesn't make rear ends for '32's :rofl:



YEAH!! NO KIDDING!!


:thumbsup:

[FETorino]

Look into the Dart short block program.... simple and easy - cost effective.

Good advice there, from someone who'd been around the block.

Just a couple clicks and your order can be on it's way.

http://www.dartheads.com/products/short-block-assemblies/the-dart-small-block-chevy-short-block-builder.html


Too bad Dart doesn't make rear ends for '32's :rofl:

But the one he had was good for at least 500hp and some mild autocrossing:rofl: His rear should have been strong enough just like a lesser block should be good enough. Over engineer when possible, your gonna break stuff:D

[Flash68]

I looked at those Dart short blocks. Overpriced for what they are IMO.

[Track Junky]

Here's an option

http://nyesautomotive.net/SBC_350_383__RS.html

[Vegas69]

Didn't your Nyes just come apart?

[Track Junky]

Good point. Get one with a warranty.

[Vegas69]

Engine warranties aren't worth the paper they're written on. Find the best engine builder and pay the man to do it right. If their was ever an instance where you get what you pay for, this is it. ESPECIALLY if you pound it on the track.

[Track Junky]

Cant argue that........I'll be taking motor apart on Wednesday. I'll keep you guys posted.

[Sieg]

Cant argue that........I'll be taking motor apart on Wednesday. I'll keep you guys posted.
It's about time!!!

[intocarss]

It's about time!!! Don't rush him Sieg, You know how he gets :willy:

[Sieg]

Saw a short block I wouldn't mind having today..........if it was gifted to me :(

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/Hot-Rods/i-FmhC25x/1/XL/IMAG2287-XL.jpg
Nice lite 6 bolt rear main item. :yes:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

now thats hardcore

[intocarss]

Sprint car eng

[intocarss]

Thanks Dave.

Progress on the car has been handicapped by another passion (adrenaline addiction) over the years..........motorcycles.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Track-Day/KTM-Fontana-2011/CP46212/1189946614_WWySK-L.jpg
Father time is sneaking up on me so it's time to focus on a future adrenaline delivery system. :unibrow: Is that Ca speedway?

[Track Junky]

Hey Sieg, I saw your motor at Vinces shop today :unibrow:

[Sieg]

Sprint car eng Modified car. Lot of money considering the purses around here.

[Sieg]

Is that Ca speedway?Autoclub/Fontana

[Sieg]

Hey Sieg, I saw your motor at Vinces shop today :unibrow:Today's the day........you may actually need it, and hopefully that's not the case. :_paranoid

That motor has a lot of nice components and appears to be a great deal. Vince appears to be a real good guy too. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

Autoclub/Fontana All one in the same

"Modified engine" Wow you all run the good stuff up there :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

One in the same

Ca Speedway/AutoClub/Fontana........
You southerner's have more names for one track than Oregon has tracks. :mad:

Though our good track (Oregon Raceway Park) does have a decent setting.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Track-Day/ORP-7-3-2010/IMAG0010/922632639_fntWs-XL.jpg

[intocarss]

DAMN that is really nice.^^^^^

[Sieg]

DAMN that is really nice.^^^^^

2.4 miles, 15 turns, and over 400' of cumulative elevation change with land to add another 2+ miles of faster track, and possibly circle, drag, and kart/supermoto accommodations in the future too. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

I see your still racing at your age LOL :thumbsup:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/seig_n.jpg

[Sieg]

My scooter is orange and black, you should have known that. :willy:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

any word on your new engine? :unibrow:

[Sieg]

any word on your new engine? :unibrow:Vince, I didn't get a chance to get by the shop today, sick kids and doctor appointments........and I know better than to call. :D

I think your motor is very well set up, but the Ross low silcone pistons and solid roller cam are more than I need for how I'll realistically be using the car over the next few years.

As soon as I get a number from Springer we'll see if that shifts the tide. :_paranoid

But since we're talking realistic........Gaetano should have it for a spare. Beats getting your track fix as a corner worker. :unibrow:

[Track Junky]

You know what they say....once you go aluminum block.....:unibrow:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Vince, I didn't get a chance to get by the shop today, sick kids and doctor appointments........and I know better than to call. :D

I think your motor is very well set up, but the Ross low silcone pistons and solid roller cam are more than I need for how I'll realistically be using the car over the next few years.

As soon as I get a number from Springer we'll see if that shifts the tide. :_paranoid

But since we're talking realistic........Gaetano should have it for a spare. Beats getting your track fix as a corner worker. :unibrow:

LOL, no way...its not light enough for him.

Yeah just let me know either way please, i'll just remind you that I have over 8K in parts alone...just putting it out there. LOL :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

LOL, no way...its not light enough for him.

Yeah just let me know either way please, i'll just remind you that I have over 8K in parts alone...just putting it out there. LOL :thumbsup:
I know I know!! :willy:

Don't hang a sale waiting on me, I understand. :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I know I know!! :willy:

Don't hang a sale waiting on me, I understand. :thumbsup:

what are you kidding me...gaetano was like http://www.pro-touring.com/images/smilies/slap.gif "are you :censored: nuts"? lol

[Sieg]

I see your still racing at your age LOL :thumbsup:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/seig_n.jpg

I'm not DFL!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

haaaa haaaa its spreading. OMG

[Sieg]

what are you kidding me....
was like http://www.pro-touring.com/images/smilies/slap.gif "are you :censored: nuts"? lol

Remind me, what timing chain set is in that motor? :unibrow:

[intocarss]

I'm not DFL!

Damn F'n Likeable??

[Sieg]

Damn F'n Likeable??Dead F'n Last!

[intocarss]

You don't look DFL in that pic

[Vince@Meanstreets]

thats right they don't lap people in drag racing. :yes:

[intocarss]

thats right they don't lap people in drag racing. :yes: TRUE!! But you do get Tree'd, Dumped & Left on.. Sounds like a bad break up

Once the same guy passed me on the track then again on the return road ...does that count? :woot:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

TRUE!! But you do get Tree'd, Dumped & Left on.. Sounds like a bad break up

Once the same guy passed me on the track then again on the return road ...does that count? :woot:

hell yeah, i got yelled at for passing people on the return road at Infinion....LOL alot. With the return road being turns 8,8a and 9....can you blame me. :D

[intocarss]

hell yeah, i got yelled at for passing people on the return road at Infinion....LOL alot. With the return road being turns 8,8a and 9....can you blame me. :D You're one of "Those guys" aka Pit Passers lol. I've never raced at Infinion but back in the early 90's have pitted up by the Goodyear cross over bridge, YUP it's a road course I can't blame you

[Roberts68]

June has been kind of a quiet month for Norwood. I actually checked to make sure I didn't accidentally unsubscribe.

Do you have pics or details on what you did for your tunnel access to the shifter? I may have skimmed over it but I thought I would check in and bump the thread.
:cool:

[Sieg]

Far from quiet! Kid's out of school, weddings, graduations, retail business, sold a bike, bought welding equipment, re-organizing garage space, landscape maintenance, etc. Haven't even had a chance to drive the car this month, whenever there was the time it was raining.

I reproduced a tunnel cover to similar to the first one. Console is out due to shifter location.

The engine builder appear too busy to get me a bid, so I backed off the motor plan. The new plan is to pull the existing motor to properly seal the *@$# leaking oil pan and install the AFR heads and Performer RPM Air Gap manifold and drive it. That should wake the motor up over the stock cast 2.02's and Torker II manifold enough to satisfy me this year.

Spent the new motor money on a TIG, MIG, and Plasma cutter which means I need to add a two more 250V 30-50 amp services in the garage this weekend. Then I'll start the TIG home school for dummies program. First project will be a larger layout/welding table. If all goes well I'll attempt to make a console out of .25" rod and light guage sheet metal with CUP Holders and maybe an AV panel. :D