Norwood

[GregWeld]

I'm going to have this thread locked.....





:willy: :D

[Sieg]

I'm going to have this thread locked.....


:willy: :D
Norwood come home.......we've lost our focus..........once again. :willy:

[WSSix]

Hey, it was just an observation. There was nothing negative intended. She's still freaking hot. But yes, Ron, I do need to get out of Kansas.

[Sieg]

Hey, it was just an observation. There was nothing negative intended. She's still freaking hot. But yes, Ron, I do need to get out of Kansas.

No worries here, just a little recreational jousting. :D

[WSSix]

lol, recreational jousting. I like that phrase.

[intocarss]

I'm going to have this thread locked.....





:willy: :D CAN YOU REACH THE DEAD BOLT??? :wow: :P

[GregWeld]

CAN YOU REACH THE DEAD BOLT??? :wow: :P



OUCH!:rofl:

[Sieg]

OUCH!:rofl:
Not to worry, he can't reach it either. :D

[intocarss]

Not to worry, he can't reach it either. :DYeah but I'm an 1" taller then GW :thumbsup:

[FETorino]

Funny thing though is she has big ears. She keeps them covered with her hair. It's just one of those human/female nature things I've picked up on in my life. Much like when a girl is wearing a ball cap, chances are it's because it's a bad hair day.

:D

Maybe Kansas is a good place for you after all. You have issues :lol:


Yeah but I'm an 1" taller then GW :thumbsup:

I hear you I'm only 1' taller than GW also:D

[GregWeld]

Maybe Kansas is a good place for you after all. You have issues :lol:




I hear you I'm only 1' taller than GW also:D



Did you know there's 11 marks or dashes on a measuring stick between a " and a '

[FETorino]

Did you know there's 11 marks or dashes on a measuring stick between a " and a '

I'm well aware I'm closer to 1' taller than 1" taller than you:unibrow:

Man it's just not as funny when I have to explain the joke.....

[GregWeld]

From up there could you see any brains??

[GregWeld]

Hey! Is there a car in this thread somewhere??

[Vince@Meanstreets]

heyyyy wtf, there are two tatoos missing off of that marc grant photo

[FETorino]

Hey! Is there a car in this thread somewhere??

I think Seig sold it to build something new.:_paranoid

[Sieg]

Hey! Is there a car in this thread somewhere??

Another day no car.........:_paranoid

[Sieg]

heyyyy wtf, there are two tatoos missing off of that marc grant photoObviously they were temporary tats. :rolleyes:

[GregWeld]

Anybody know where I can find some material like this for my seats??




http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Fun%20Fotos/file-2.jpg

[Sieg]

I think Sieg sold it to build something new.:_paranoid

Nope, couldn't get enough for it to build something that would satisfy my wants and little diminutive Norwood satisfies my needs. Besides it's challenging doing more with less. :D

If I have a chance to build another car, right now it would have to be similar to Hobaugh's. That would satisfy my "wants" nicely. :yes:

[Sieg]

Anybody know where I can find some material like this for my seats??




http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Fun%20Fotos/file-2.jpg

Are you looking for the cover or the stuffing?

[waynieZ]

Anybody know where I can find some material like this for my seats??




http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Fun%20Fotos/file-2.jpg

I don't know but if you get that material I'll take the stuffing from it for my car and I promise to work on it every night from now on!

[WSSix]

She has big ears too!

[waynieZ]

The better to hold her with my dear!!!
You know how a women holds a pirate during sex........By the buccaneers!

[Vegas69]

She has big ears too!

Maybe you should move to San Francisco with Dave. :lol:

[96z28ss]

Anybody know where I can find some material like this for my seats??




http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Fun%20Fotos/file-2.jpg

Wow! At the rate that this thread is going. I'm hoping Sieg never gets it finished. I'm liking these pictures better.

[Sieg]

Wow! At the rate that this thread is going. I'm hoping Sieg never gets it finished. I'm liking these pictures better.
Good News, as of 3 pm today still waiting on the adjuster. :unibrow:

Guess I better fetch up some more pics.

Beats video's and pics of another clapped-out '69 Camaro. :D

[Track Junky]

Sieg has a car he's working on in this thread? :lol:

[Sieg]

Sieg has a car he's working on in this thread? :lol:

I DO!

I think

Here's proof sitting in the Store & Lock:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TFS3mPP/1/L/i-TFS3mPP-L.jpg

I hope it still runs!

[Matt@BOS]

I DO!

I think

Here's proof sitting in the Store & Lock:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TFS3mPP/1/L/i-TFS3mPP-L.jpg

I hope it still runs!

Damn it! You need to get back on the topic of "seat covers."

[Sieg]

Damn it! You need to get back on the topic of "seat covers."

Came out of the closet huh?

Cover this............
http://nyc.3432.voxcdn.com/wp-content/gallery/nyc/country/sexy-cowgirls-7.jpg

[intocarss]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/423205_258849837520680_213387902066874_633616_1395 825093_n.jpg

[intocarss]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/cowgirls-indians-9.jpg

[WSSix]

Cover this............
http://nyc.3432.voxcdn.com/wp-content/gallery/nyc/country/sexy-cowgirls-7.jpg

I'm only willing to cover that with my body. Otherwise, nope!

[Sieg]

I'm only willing to cover that with my body. Otherwise, nope!
Start with a good spanking :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Proof that Norwood did run a couple weeks ago. More importantly my headers did not discolor during the 30 minute break-in period, not sure if the fans get credit but they couldn't have hurt.

DAMTAriAabA


Norwood's old motor during the first test of the new T56 and clutch.

G9IijvK4kh8

That resulted in pair of 140' stripes............new motor better beat it!

[intocarss]

I LIKE IT SIEGMANDO :hail:

BTW what rockers are you running with those valve covers? I had the same ones and my rollers hit the sides a little so I changed them out

[Track Junky]

Nice :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Now put your dick back in your pants and stay on topic. :cool: :lol:

[Sieg]

I LIKE IT SIEGMANDO :hail:

BTW what rockers are you running with those valve covers? I had the same ones and my rollers hit the sides a little so I changed them out

Comp Magnums 1.5 stamped with roller tips, nutt'n special.

[intocarss]

Nice :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Now put your dick back in your pants and stay on topic. :cool: :lol: No more B**bies for you

[Track Junky]

Proof that Norwood did run a couple weeks ago. More importantly my headers did not discolor during the 30 minute break-in period, not sure if the fans get credit but they couldn't have hurt.t!

Car sounded great in the vid Sieg. Fans wouldn't have kept those headers from discoloring so it looks like your on the right track. If I were you I'd take that thing to a local dyno tune shop to dial in optimum timing and a/f ratios.

[Track Junky]

No more B**bies for you

Huh!! Thats what you think!!

You guy's want boobies go to boobies-g.com. :lol:

[intocarss]

Huh!! Thats what you think!!

You guy's want boobies go to boobies-DD.com. :lol:

FIXED^^

[Sieg]

March 31, 2012
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Lznfmpr/0/XL/i-Lznfmpr-XL.jpg

August 7th, 2012
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5mSSX2z/0/XL/i-5mSSX2z-XL.jpg

December 7th, 2012
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wS8LC2Z/0/XL/i-wS8LC2Z-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8Rqtzr9/1/XL/i-8Rqtzr9-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-bRSN2bK/1/XL/i-bRSN2bK-XL.jpg

It's back :thumbsup:

Now to fine tune everything again. Carb isn't bad out of the box but float levels and transition off idle need micro-managing, the new starter isn't starting every time after driving......not sure if the battery is a little weak or the alignment is off once the block and flywheel gets a good does of heat.

[cencalc6]

Congrats! You did a great job getting this Nice car back on the road....Engine looks Very clean and simple but with a nasty attitude :thumbsup: :cheers:

[GregWeld]

Nice present to yourself on Pearl Harbor day!

Did you get to drive it enough to see if the motor is stronger?

[Ron in SoCal]

Congrats Scott! She's lookin fine...:thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Nice present to yourself on Pearl Harbor day!

Did you get to drive it enough to see if the motor is stronger?

..........and the anniversary of my 2001 vasectomy :rofl:

Drove it a little, haven't been able to pinned it and get it up over 4K yet. Supposedly the brakes were bled but they were like an old sponge, re-bled them yesterday and have pedal now so hopefully the weather will cooperate today. My initial impression with an unturned carb and 4 month old fuel is the compression is down a little so it's lost a little snap down low but that could also be a slightly lean transition off idle, 3-4K feels stronger but the 4-6K is an unknown. It definitely didn't go backwards and Sunday through Friday looks like good tuning weather. :thumbsup:

I richened the corner bleeds and tightened the primary accel pump a little so we'll see what that did..........provided that starter cooperates. :D

[Sieg]

Congrats Scott! She's lookin fine...:thumbsup:

Thanks Buddy, really appreciate the wiper motor. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

..........and the anniversary of my 2001 vasectomy :rofl:
..........provided that starter cooperates. :D



Look to see if there is a big azz GROUND between motor and chassis -- lots of people overlook that and it will cause all manor of starter motor ills.:rolleyes:



Funny on the vasectomy -- I got a shiny new Red Steve Millen tricked out Miata from my wife the day I got mine. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Look to see if there is a big azz GROUND between motor and chassis -- lots of people overlook that and it will cause all manor of starter motor ills.:rolleyes:



Funny on the vasectomy -- I got a shiny new Red Steve Millen tricked out Miata from my wife the day I got mine. :thumbsup:
I got a double ruptured L3-4 disk December 16th for mine............I was still being very cautious too. :mad: Don't think I'll drive the car on the 16th. :_paranoid

Not sure on the starter issue ground isn't in place so it's now on the list. :thumbsup:

With the failure to fire issue at break-in time the little guy got a workout which could have created an issue. Or the battery is just a little weak and with additional heat it resists. It's been on a float charger, I'll put a meter on it shortly.

The first time it happened I rolled it backwards and tried to lite it in reverse, it didn't lite but I tried the starter and it worked fine. Then I went and filled up after a little 2 mile run on the freeway and it failed again. Thankfully I was parked in a spot that had a slope so a little push and 2nd gear got it to fire.

The fine tuning after other people have been involved and new products were installed is part of the game. ;)

[intocarss]

Congrats and she's lookn GREAT!!!!

Going out to install my new MC in a few

We'll be "MC buddies" :woot:

[Sieg]

Congrats and she's lookn GREAT!!!!

Going out to install my new MC in a few

We'll be "MC buddies" :woot:
Thanks Doggy!

You're going to like having a man-pedal. :D :thumbsup: :D

I bench bled mine and used a Mighty Vac starting with the longest lines and got a good pedal first attempt.

[Sieg]

Look to see if there is a big azz GROUND between motor and chassis -- lots of people overlook that and it will cause all manor of starter motor ills.:rolleyes:
Battery was at 13.07 volts, female spade switch connection on solenoid was a little loose, starter gear clearance looked a little tight so I added one shim.

If I make a 10 Ga motor to inner fender ground lead would that be adequate?

Edit - Quick test drive, no starter issues.

But the 6.5 Power Valves are an issue. Hopefully I can locate a couple 5 or 5.5's locally today.

[Flash68]

Congrats man! She looks great and ready to roll again... better than ever... and your work is clean. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

Thanks Doggy!

You're going to like having a man-pedal. :D :thumbsup: :D

I bench bled mine and used a Mighty Vac starting with the longest lines and got a good pedal first attempt.

I'm a big boy now!! :willy: :willy: :willy:

A mighty vac?? Please explain

Just my personal preference... with a bigger cam I don't run PV's

[Sieg]

I'm a big boy now!! :willy: :willy: :willy:

A mighty vac?? Please explain

Just my personal preference... with a bigger cam I don't run PV's

Mighty Vac: http://www.mityvac.com/pages/products_bcbe.asp

Hmmm.....cam isn't huge: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-5002/

The vac secondary Demon worked decent with a 5.5 but this set up doesn't appear to get much more than 10" at idle so far. Local shop doesn't have 5.0's but have 5.5 and 4.5's........error on the low vac side?

Downside to running power valve plugs on the street??

[intocarss]

Mighty Vac: http://www.mityvac.com/pages/products_bcbe.asp

Hmmm.....cam isn't huge: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-5002/

The vac secondary Demon worked decent with a 5.5 but this set up doesn't appear to get much more than 10" at idle so far. Local shop doesn't have 5.0's but have 5.5 and 4.5's........error on the low vac side?

Downside to running power valve plugs on the street??

Thanks for the vac thing.. I thought you were talking about something else

As you know the power valve allows the carb to be used with main jets that are about 8 sizes smaller, which will allow better gas mileage during part throttle cruising which sometimes is the case during much of the time of street driving. So If get rid of the power valve, you must go bigger with the main jet sizes. (5-8 sizes bigger) Car will run a little richer and may load up a little while idling ( I just rev it a little and she stays clean). IMOHO i am in and out of the gas most of the time so it never sees the throttle in one position for very long.. My car pulls 3.5-4" vac at idle
__________________

[GregWeld]

If I make a 10 Ga motor to inner fender ground lead would that be adequate?


NO... it should be equal gauge to your positive battery cable.


Technically you can fudge down a size or so and make the run as short as possible.

I generally make it a "loop" from the bolt that goes thru the motor motor mount to the block (bellhousing or similar).

It's a circuit -- so the draw of the starter (200 amps) must be carried thru that circuit... i.e., the ground. You've got "wubba" motor mounts and tranny mount and blah blah blah... so it's best to just assume you have lousy ground circuit and make one that you know handles the job. Things will run better electrically. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Thanks for the vac thing.. I thought you were talking about something else

As you know the power valve allows the carb to be used with main jets that are about 8 sizes smaller, which will allow better gas mileage during part throttle cruising which sometimes is the case during much of the time of street driving. So If get rid of the power valve, you must go bigger with the main jet sizes. (5-8 sizes bigger) Car will run a little richer and may load up a little while idling ( I just rev it a little and she stays clean). IMOHO i am in and out of the gas most of the time so it never sees the throttle in one position for very long.. My car pulls 3.5-4" vac at idle
__________________

:thumbsup:

Anyone ever tell you that you've got a big ........cam! :unibrow:
NO... it should be equal gauge to your positive battery cable.


Technically you can fudge down a size or so and make the run as short as possible.

I generally make it a "loop" from the bolt that goes thru the motor motor mount to the block (bellhousing or similar).

It's a circuit -- so the draw of the starter (200 amps) must be carried thru that circuit... i.e., the ground. You've got "wubba" motor mounts and tranny mount and blah blah blah... so it's best to just assume you have lousy ground circuit and make one that you know handles the job. Things will run better electrically. :thumbsup:
Me don't have wubba mounts. :D Is that grounded enough?

[GregWeld]

:thumbsup:

Anyone ever tell you that you've got a big ........cam! :unibrow:

Me don't have wubba mounts. :D Is that grounded enough?




Big boys have hard mounts.....


:willy: :D

[Sieg]

Don't have the off idle throttle dialed..............

2ZmR8kfB0_0

Audio wasn't very good, camera might have been too close to the exhaust tip.
I know the sheriff's heard it real good......they could have easily put the hassle on me.

Exhaust note definitely changed with the AFR heads and change from 1-5/8 to 1-3/4 primaries.....similar but slightly different.

[intocarss]

She sounds good SiEg :woot: Lucky the Fuzz didn't get ya, and you weren't kidding about "back roads".. Bet it feels great to be driving it again Congrats.

[GregWeld]

HAHAHAHAHA! He goes in like a lion and out like a lamb.....


Not sure what your timing set up is --- I'd be at 16 or 18* initial -- and probably 34* total. Those heads will want LESS timing...

Can't remember if you have vacuum advance or not - but I'd just plug it and run pure mechanical. Vacuum is just for gas milage when you're part throttle cruising anyway.

Run a timing curve that maybe uses one light silver and one light blue spring...

Sounds good but the off idle bog would bother me and that might not be all carb... Especially if you're initial is down around 10* or so.

[intocarss]

Page 44, post # 433, pic #2 No vacume advance

[GregWeld]

Page 44, post # 433, pic #2 No vacume advance

Thanks -- Yep see that.


Sieg -- I'd be running the BLACK 18* STOP bushing in that distributor... Are you familiar with how to change that out. Do you have the set that came with the distributor? It should also have come with some springs -- those come with what I lovingly refer to as GARAGE DOOR springs -- big ass fat silver pair -- they shouldn't be run in anything.... You'll wake that thing right up with the right spings in there. As posted above -- that motor would like the light blue - light silver combo... and that 18* stop bushing. :thumbsup:

Crank in more initial timing == you'll have to back your idle adjustment down to compensate (idle will rise with more timing).

[Sieg]

HAHAHAHAHA! He goes in like a lion and out like a lamb.....


Not sure what your timing set up is --- I'd be a 16 or 18* initial -- and probably 34* total. Those heads will want LESS timing...

Can't remember if you have vacuum advance or not - but I'd just plug it and run pure mechanical. Vacuum is just for gas milage when you're part throttle cruising anyway.

Run a timing curve that maybe uses one light silver and one light blue spring...

Sounds good but the off idle bog would bother me and that might not be all carb... Especially if you're initial is down around 10* or so.

I'm glad I didn't have to get down on my hands and knees and beg for forgiveness. :rolleyes:

12* initial with 25* mechanical with light silver & blue.

I won't tolerate a bog it will end up close to Fi response...........stalling under hard braking may be the bigger challenge. :D

Thanks -- Yep see that.


Sieg -- I'd be running the BLACK 18* STOP bushing in that distributor... Are you familiar with how to change that out. Do you have the set that came with the distributor? It should also have come with some springs -- those come with what I lovingly refer to as GARAGE DOOR springs -- big ass fat silver pair -- they shouldn't be run in anything.... You'll wake that thing right up with the right springs in there. As posted above -- that motor would like the light blue - light silver combo... and that 18* stop bushing. :thumbsup:

Crank in more initial timing == you'll have to back your idle adjustment down to compensate (idle will rise with more timing).
Thanks GW,

My plan is to double check carb baselines - throttle plates/transfer slots, idle bypass valve and mixture screws. Once that's verified I'll throw a little more initial timing at it (14-16*) and see how it responds off idle. After those bases are covered I'm free to experiment with total timing and rate.

After yesterdays little brush with the law (:D) the motor appears to be stronger through the range. Decent tuning weather today!

[Sieg]

She sounds good SiEg :woot: Lucky the Fuzz didn't get ya, and you weren't kidding about "back roads".. Bet it feels great to be driving it again Congrats.

It's a pain as I have to drive 6 blocks to make that tuning run. :D

Yes it's nice to have it back. :thumbsup:

[Roberts68]

Congrats Sieg, what you have done since August should serve as an inspiration.:thumbsup:
I seriously need to get busy if I am ever to get to a "tuning" stage.
Currently sitting on the fence until after the Holidays with my finger on the button for an HTP Mig.

[GregWeld]

Remember that depending on the stop bushing used --- when you advance your initial -- you're automatically advancing your total (you add the stop bushing spec to the initial timing setting). Thus the recommendation to switch to the 18* (Black) stop bushing.

With the light silver and light blue springs all your timing should be in by around 2000 rpms... so that doesn't allow you much experimentation before you have way too much timing using your current 25* bushing.

My 408 SBC with EFI runs 15* Initial and 33* total. Small Dart 180 aluminum heads, smallish cam and dyno'd to come up with that combo.

[67zo6Camaro]

Don't have the off idle throttle dialed..............

2ZmR8kfB0_0

.

Lol, loved how your demeanor changed after the trun around.

That sounded pretty good, and I'm just plain jealous that you have a test road that close...

Post some more please.

[FETorino]

Remember that depending on the stop bushing used --- when you advance your initial -- you're automatically advancing your total (you add the stop bushing spec to the initial timing setting). Thus the recommendation to switch to the 18* (Black) stop bushing.

With the light silver and light blue springs all your timing should be in by around 2000 rpms... so that doesn't allow you much experimentation before you have way too much timing using your current 25* bushing.

My 408 SBC with EFI runs 15* Initial and 33* total. Small Dart 180 aluminum heads, smallish cam and dyno'd to come up with that combo.

Unlike the Intros I actually have to agree with GW on this one. Start with the total timing you want and work backward. 34 minus 18 is 16 initial which it probably around where you want to be. THen dial in the adv curve from there.
If your motor needed 40 deg like my dinosaur then maybe the 25* bushing would be useful but in your case it's better to star with the 18*. :willy:

Glad to see you have it on the road.:D

[Sieg]

Remember that depending on the stop bushing used --- when you advance your initial -- you're automatically advancing your total (you add the stop bushing spec to the initial timing setting). Thus the recommendation to switch to the 18* (Black) stop bushing.

With the light silver and light blue springs all your timing should be in by around 2000 rpms... so that doesn't allow you much experimentation before you have way too much timing using your current 25* bushing.

My 408 SBC with EFI runs 15* Initial and 33* total. Small Dart 180 aluminum heads, smallish cam and dyno'd to come up with that combo.

Understand the initial + mechanical = total.

Light blue/silver with 18* bushy gives total at about 2200. Two light silvers gives it all at 1750ish.

I double checked last night and I set it up with the two light blues and silver bushing (25*). So it's getting 37* at 3300ish.

Dogs are walked, prime rib egg and cheese sammich on grilled wheat sourdough for wifey and I are consumed.........it's after 10 am = green light to fire it up and start tinkering! Daughters V-ball games aren't until 6 pm. :woot:

[Sieg]

Unlike the Intros I actually have to agree with GW on this one. Start with the total timing you want and work backward. 34 minus 18 is 16 initial which it probably around where you want to be. THen dial in the adv curve from there.
If your motor needed 40 deg like my dinosaur then maybe the 25* bushing would be useful but in your case it's better to star with the 18*. :willy:

Glad to see you have it on the road.:D

Nice to see you finally drug yourself out of bed :lol: Thanks for the confirmation :thumbsup:
Now if I can easily change the bushing without pulling the distributor. :_paranoid

[Sieg]

Lol, loved how your demeanor changed after the turn around.

That sounded pretty good, and I'm just plain jealous that you have a test road that close...

Post some more please.
Hey! I can't stick my tail between my legs and exit gracefully with the best of them. :unibrow:

More videos once it doesn't make me appear like it's my first time driving a clutch. :D

[GregWeld]

It is required to pull the distributor to change stop bushings....

It's just an azz ackward job to try to back the nut off --- put a new bushing on and hold it upside-down while trying to start the nut on again. By the time you do all that -- it's far easier to just pop the cap off and yard the SOB out of there.

[Sieg]

It is required to pull the distributor to change stop bushings....

It's just an azz ackward job to try to back the nut off --- put a new bushing on and hold it upside-down while trying to start the nut on again. By the time you do all that -- it's far easier to just pop the cap off and yard the SOB out of there.
HA!
Just did the black bushing and silver spring without one fumble!!!

I know how to use my tools.......and a little dab of grease. :rofl: :rofl: :thumbsup:

Now it's time to warm and tune :woot:

[GregWeld]

:hail: :thumbsup: :hail: :thumbsup: :hail: :thumbsup:

[WSSix]

Congrats on getting it back on the road, Scott

[Sieg]

Congrats on getting it back on the road, ScottThanks Trey

:thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Carb baseline confirmed, throttle transfer slots even, idle mixture screws balanced, idle bypass used to set rpm, timing at 16* total at 34*.
Much better off idle though at the end of the run the idle rpm had crept up 200 rpm to 1200. Getting just shy of 11" vac. at 1000 rpm.
Very drivable now!

All said the Holley HP Ultra is better in 3 test drives than the original Speed Demon 650VS was in hours upon hours of tuning and testing. Haven't even touched the pump cams or squirters.

DfaWRoyusNQ

Something ain't right with the audio on this camera. Loose case or mic or? Sounds like there's a lot of lose parts on the rear of the car...........if there is I sure can't hear them. I'll try the backup camera in the same location before shimming, swapping cases and using the skeleton rear door.

[Roberts68]

Yeah, that is a bummer the audio is letting you down because it takes the fun out of watching to be honest. I hope the issue is easily corrected so you can show us what Norwood really has to say:yes:

Great to hear that the nut behind the wheel is pleased with the changes especially after what all you went through!

[intocarss]

It's nice when you make adjustments and it responds :woot:

I'll wait and watch the HD vid :unibrow:

[GregWeld]

Sounds more responsive...

I'd check the muffler bearings.



:cheers:

[Sieg]

Sounds more responsive...

I'd check the muffler bearings.



:cheers:

It's pretty good, just got to push it into 3 digits and it felt pretty healthy for secondhand parts Gen 1 put together by a Springtuckey auto shop.

Do you really think sealed tapered unobtainium bearings could sound that bad?

[Sieg]

It's nice when you make adjustments and it responds :woot:

I'll wait and watch the HD vid :unibrow:
Excuse the sloppy loop......first time with the NT05's in the wet, they aren't exactly grippy in those conditions.

[GregWeld]

Do you really think sealed tapered unobtainium bearings could sound that bad?


Sealed muffler bearings are the best... until they become unsealed... then... not so much.



Really sounded like a camera issue.

[Sieg]

Sealed muffler bearings are the best... until they become unsealed... then... not so much.



Really sounded like a camera issue.

That's the Hero2 I use off road so it's hit the ground a few times. The audio's never been that bad and it's just been sitting in the case? :( As noted I try the other one.

The new Hero3 is set up to use remote mic's and comes Bluetooth enabled. Control it with the remote or your iPhone or Smartphone and they've added cinema quality levels and more.

[Flash68]

Something ain't right with the audio on this camera. Loose case or mic or? Sounds like there's a lot of lose parts on the rear of the car...........if there is I sure can't hear them. I'll try the backup camera in the same location before shimming, swapping cases and using the skeleton rear door.

How tight is the cam when inside the plastic case with the door shut? I had to add some strips of tape on one end of mine to get some rattling to go away. It's a common issue.

[Sieg]

How tight is the cam when inside the plastic case with the door shut? I had to add some strips of tape on one end of mine to get some rattling to go away. It's a common issue.

It's relatively snug. I just looked it over and it's possible the case shutter button pin could just be contacting the camera shutter button when the door is closed and latched if the camera is riding high in the case. Pushing and holding the camera into the case on lower side of the back results in .011-.08clearance, pushing in on the upper side of the back gives .004, pushing in on the upper side and down on the latch area resulted in .002 with moderate pressure. If that button is making contact it could create the odd sounding resonance....??

I'll try this heavy vinyl tape shim in the top of the case and see what happens:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4dg2Qp2/0/L/i-4dg2Qp2-L.jpg

[Flash68]

Dude... I knew we had this convo before... check these posts 20+ months ago... :lol:

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showpost.php4?p=333246&postcount=414

[intocarss]

It's relatively snug. I just looked it over and it's possible the case shutter button pin could just be contacting the camera shutter button when the door is closed and latched if the camera is riding high in the case. Pushing and holding the camera into the case on lower side of the back results in .011-.08clearance, pushing in on the upper side of the back gives .004, pushing in on the upper side and down on the latch area resulted in .002 with moderate pressure. If that button is making contact it could create the odd sounding resonance....??

I'll try this heavy vinyl tape shim in the top of the case and see what happens:


What did you break out the micrometers and feeler gauges?? ONLY SIEGMON :rofl:

[Flash68]

What did you break out the micrometers and feeler gauges?? ONLY SIEGMON :rofl:

Yeah I was chuckling at that too. Gotta appreciate a details man. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

Yeah I was chuckling at that too. Gotta appreciate a details man. :thumbsup:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/thCA8EULKR.jpg

[Sieg]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/thCA8EULKR.jpgAfter testing this morning I tore into the camera because you could hear an internal rattle. Pulled all the fasteners attaching the main circuit board to the body but it wasn't coming out easy so I abandon the quest...............there's something between the main board and the front of the camera that's lose and rattling.

We'll see how GoPro handles the issue................

[GregWeld]

Let me know if they blow you off -- I'll give you another one.

Just got my new remote controlled version that I ordered at SEMA... and I'll use that one and the other one will go to the bottom of some camera heap. :D
I also use my Contour+ 'cause it's so much more reliable (I can't ever remember all the crap on the Go-Pro etc).

[Flash68]

(I can't ever remember all the crap on the Go-Pro etc).

There is a one-click on-off option that you can upload via firmware. Really easy once you do that. Without it, it certainly is a pain in the arse.

[Sieg]

Thanks GW :thumbsup:

Here's the video I captured this morning and submitted to GoPro:

xNLefUt810Y

Audio is OK until movement creates any vibration. What doesn't make sense is I can't recall any impact since the last use that would have caused this.

[Sieg]

After 20+ years of no radio I decided to make a radio delete plate for the dash.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-rtSkLPw/0/L/i-rtSkLPw-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wrFGzgS/0/L/i-wrFGzgS-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-rV3vrMQ/0/L/i-rV3vrMQ-L.jpg

I'll use it as a magnetic bulletin board until figure out a good use for the vacant space. :D

[Sieg]

No response from GoPro regarding the Hero2 audio failure yet. :mad:
Mounted one of the Hero HD's and went on test and tune drive.

nHIU449qCbM

Richened the fuel screws a couple times which improved off idle/trailing throttle response and raised the float levels an 1/8th and it's pretty close. Next phase is fine tuning the pump cams. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

Both Sound great, you're a wild man Siegy I love it :cheers:

[Sieg]

Finished radio delete plate

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-mZsHB4b/1/M/i-mZsHB4b-M.jpg

Took the car in for a formal appraisal for the insurance company today and took a couple shots with the phone cam.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-NBcCr3B/2/XL/i-NBcCr3B-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-KJ6BLkB/2/XL/i-KJ6BLkB-XL.jpg

[makoshark]

Car looks great! Bet its nice having it back out on the road again.

[NorCal72]

Cool video's, great looking car, even cooler story! Thanks for sharing

[Roberts68]

Looks and sounds great Sieg! What is the red light I am seeing on the new delete plate?

[Roscoe03]

The car sounds great!

[intocarss]

Looks and sounds great Sieg! What is the red light I am seeing on the new delete plate? That's top secret :_paranoid

[Roberts68]

That's top secret :_paranoid

Yeah, but I am on the "need to know" list. I have a decoder ring and everything... I'll show it to you sometime because it is REALLY NEAT!

Oh... Oh wait... I don't recall seeing intocarss on the list.:_paranoid
"Forget I have said anything." (Obi Wan Kenobi voice, complete with hand gesture)

:rofl: :cheers:

[Sieg]

Car looks great! Bet its nice having it back out on the road again.

Cool video's, great looking car, even cooler story! Thanks for sharing

The car sounds great!
Thanks guys! It's the coolest tinker-toy I've ever owned. :thumbsup:

Looks and sounds great Sieg! What is the red light I am seeing on the new delete plate?

That's top secret :_paranoid

Alarm indicator light.

[Sieg]

Anyone ever been focused on one task that resulted in another?

I was working on a GPS mounting location and looked at the dash paint, next thing I know............

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9rpRkDX/0/L/i-9rpRkDX-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-KnW74Fp/0/L/i-KnW74Fp-L.jpg

After all the sanding prep and wipe down with lacquer thinner I apply a test coat to find out we have what appears to be silicone contamination. :mad:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5CXjR52/0/L/i-5CXjR52-L.jpg

Another quick-fix fail! :D

I'm using Krylon semi-gloss black, also shot a test panel to insure it wasn't the paint.

Suggestions?

[GregWeld]

Get yourself some OMNI clean.... at an automotive paint supplier.

Start wiping with clean clothes --- ONE swipe in one direction -- NEW Cloth or fold - One swipe one direction... repeat...

#1 thing in painting -- NEVER SAND before you clean.... sanding can track the contaminant into the sanding groves.

[intocarss]

#1 thing in painting -- NEVER SAND before you clean.... sanding can track the contaminant into the sanding groves. Never knew that. Thanks!!

[Ralphlovs72chev]

i use alot of eastwood products. They have a good paint prep that I use alot. It cost around 10 dollars. One problem that i can think of is that some of your old paint absorbed alot of oil over the years. Its best to remove it all and start fresh. I also like their chassis black spray paint. It has that right look when it dries...like the factory satin look. I dont like krylon as their paints are thin and delicate dont last long and scratch easy. The chassis paint does not need primer. spray straight from the can....and last really long. it resist alot of chemicals....

[Roberts68]

Being interior I would suspect armor all if you are pretty sure it is silicone.
Probably the worst offender and it is likely enough someone used it in there in the lat 4 decades.
Our Painter banned the stuff from the entire shop where I worked 8 years ago.

Tell me when GW doesn't have good advice? Friggin' Jedi that one...

[Sieg]

Get yourself some OMNI clean.... at an automotive paint supplier.

Start wiping with clean clothes --- ONE swipe in one direction -- NEW Cloth or fold - One swipe one direction... repeat...

#1 thing in painting -- NEVER SAND before you clean.... sanding can track the contaminant into the sanding groves.

Thanks G-dub I owe you a another..............:question: :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Being interior I would suspect armor all if you are pretty sure it is silicone.
Probably the worst offender and it is likely enough someone used it in there in the lat 4 decades.
Our Painter banned the stuff from the entire shop where I worked 8 years ago.

Tell me when GW doesn't have good advice? Friggin' Jedi that one...I'll only use Armorall on things I know I'll never refinish. Silicone is a great sealant and adhesive beyond that it's taboo in my book.

[Roberts68]

I guess I am guilty of the implication that anyone could have usec Armor All on Norwood in the last 4 decades. I admit I don't recall how long you have had him.
Time does fly, I'm closer to a quarter century than 2 decades with my Camaro at this point but yet I cannot vouch for all the products used on it prior, but I can openly admit I was not as knowledgable, careful or methodical when I was 17 as I am now at 41 especially when it comes to THE car.
:cheers:

[Sieg]

I guess I am guilty of the implication that anyone could have usec Armor All on Norwood in the last 4 decades. I admit I don't recall how long you have had him.
Time does fly, I'm closer to a quarter century than 2 decades with my Camaro at this point but yet I cannot vouch for all the products used on it prior, but I can openly admit I was not as knowledgable, careful or methodical when I was 17 as I am now at 41 especially when it comes to THE car.
:cheers:
Took delivery in '90, silicone has good shelf-life............ask a mortician. :D

[intocarss]

BUMP FOR UP DATES!! :rofl: :D :willy: :lateral:

[GregWeld]

Tell me when GW doesn't have good advice? Friggin' Jedi that one...



It's 40 plus years of screwing stuff up -- learning the hard way... At some point you start to gather enough info to be really dangerous. :D :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Okay -- I want you to know that I went down to the shed in my pajamas and slippers - in the POURING RAIN to get you some info on the stuff I keep around the shed for PRE sanding prep! Use whatever. Note the OMNI IS VERY STRONG STUFF.... the PPG Acryli-Clean and the Eastwood Pre can be used on almost ANY paint.




http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Fun%20Fotos/file-3.jpg




http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Fun%20Fotos/file-4.jpg




http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Fun%20Fotos/file-5.jpg

[Sieg]

It's 40 plus years of screwing stuff up -- learning the hard way... At some point you start to gather enough info to be really dangerous. :D :thumbsup:
THe kind if education you don't get with a college degree. :thumbsup:

Okay -- I want you to know that I went down to the shed in my pajamas and slippers - in the POURING RAIN to get you some info on the stuff I keep around the shed for PRE sanding prep! Use whatever. Note the OMNI IS VERY STRONG STUFF.... the PPG Acryli-Clean and the Eastwood Pre can be used on almost ANY paint.
Thank you buddy, hopefully one of the local supply houses has OMNI MS251 :thumbsup:

The Eastwood stuff is right up my alley considering it's rattle-can. :D

[GregWeld]

The Eastwood stuff is tight up my alley considering it's rattle-can. :D



Dude.... that's just soooooooo wrong.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Dude.... that's just soooooooo wrong.

better than fits right in...ok that was wrong.

[Ron in SoCal]

Poor Scott :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Track Junky]

Left himself wide open (pun intended) :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Sieg]

Dude.... that's just soooooooo wrong.

better than fits right in...ok that was wrong.

Poor Scott :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Left himself wide open (pun intended) :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

One typo and I find out you're all from San Fran..........http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/action-smiley-027.gif

[intocarss]

Notice that I kept my mouth shut for once

[Sieg]

Notice that I kept my mouth shut for once
I saw that typo before I'd refreshed that page and saw the inevitable responses and immediately wanted to hide in a closet. :faint:

Off to acquired some fish-eye eliminator (hopefully it works) and get the dash back together.

Then trouble shoot the source of an apparent discharge condition the car has while driving. Situation is I'll drive the car 5-10 miles, restart once is OK, second time it starts but you can notice it's weak, third or fourth time the stater won't engage. Starter is a new Powermaster mini.

Battery is showing 12.6-7 volts so all the cells appear to be good.

I typically keep it on a float charger so right after disconnecting and testing I'll get a battery reading of 13.1-13.2v.

Cranking voltage on the new Autometer voltage gauge shows 11v.

Idling voltage 14.8-15v Alternator is new Powermaster 100 amp rated at 14.8v.

Idle with lights and heater on 14.2v on the gauge.

Since I didn't install the harnesses I'm going to check all the front harness grounds first and install grounding washers if needed.

Battery is a Kirkland about a year old with little usage.

:question:

[frojoe]

better than fits right in...ok that was wrong.

Just had to slip that one in there eh

[WSSix]

Amps make the starter turn over not volts. Volts can be a good indication but not a certainty. So if everything checks out, take the battery into a parts store. I believe most have a tester that can put a load on the battery. If not, grab the battery out of the wife's minivan and use it. If the car stops having problems, you found the culprit most likely.

With that said, use the multimeter at the alternator and the battery itself. No sense in trusting a gauge when you can measure with amultimeter right at the source. Don't measure at cable ground points. Instead, measure at bare metal spots that should also be grounded. That way you check the ground circuit as well as the output of the alternator.

Check your battery cables.

Ohm your power cables and the ground cables. Also ohm the connection points. By that I mean measure the at the cable clamp and the post or measure the cable and the frame on the ground side. You want it to be less than 1 ohm. Otherwise, the connection isn't as good at it could be.

[intocarss]

Ohm your power cables and the ground cables. Also ohm the connection points. By that I mean measure the at the cable clamp and the post or measure the cable and the frame on the ground side. You want it to be less than 1 ohm. Otherwise, the connection isn't as good at it could be.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/thRE.jpg

[GregWeld]

I saw that typo before I'd refreshed that page and saw the inevitable responses and immediately wanted to hide in a closet. :faint:

Off to acquired some fish-eye eliminator (hopefully it works) and get the dash back together.

Then trouble shoot the source of an apparent discharge condition the car has while driving. Situation is I'll drive the car 5-10 miles, restart once is OK, second time it starts but you can notice it's weak, third or fourth time the stater won't engage. Starter is a new Powermaster mini.

Battery is showing 12.6-7 volts so all the cells appear to be good.

I typically keep it on a float charger so right after disconnecting and testing I'll get a battery reading of 13.1-13.2v.

Cranking voltage on the new Autometer voltage gauge shows 11v.

Idling voltage 14.8-15v Alternator is new Powermaster 100 amp rated at 14.8v.

Idle with lights and heater on 14.2v on the gauge.

Since I didn't install the harnesses I'm going to check all the front harness grounds first and install grounding washers if needed.

Battery is a Kirkland about a year old with little usage.

:question:



Before you spend hours and hours --- swap in a different battery and see if there's any improvement. If it improves you've found your problem - if not - now you can spend hours and hours...

My guess is a bad battery ---- and or a starter that is getting heat soaked -- but it wouldn't be heat soak if you can't start it 3 or 4 times COLD... right in a row. ANY good battery should be able to start a car several times without fail.

[Sieg]

Amps make the starter turn over not volts. Volts can be a good indication but not a certainty. So if everything checks out, take the battery into a parts store. I believe most have a tester that can put a load on the battery. If not, grab the battery out of the wife's minivan and use it. If the car stops having problems, you found the culprit most likely.

With that said, use the multimeter at the alternator and the battery itself. No sense in trusting a gauge when you can measure with amultimeter right at the source. Don't measure at cable ground points. Instead, measure at bare metal spots that should also be grounded. That way you check the ground circuit as well as the output of the alternator.

Check your battery cables.

Ohm your power cables and the ground cables. Also ohm the connection points. By that I mean measure the at the cable clamp and the post or measure the cable and the frame on the ground side. You want it to be less than 1 ohm. Otherwise, the connection isn't as good at it could be.
Thanks Trey :thumbsup:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/thRE.jpg
Sure that isn't an image of me in the garage going hmm, hmm, hmm? :D

[Sieg]

Before you spend hours and hours --- swap in a different battery and see if there's any improvement. If it improves you've found your problem - if not - now you can spend hours and hours...

My guess is a bad battery ---- and or a starter that is getting heat soaked -- but it wouldn't be heat soak if you can't start it 3 or 4 times COLD... right in a row. ANY good battery should be able to start a car several times without fail.Agreed, load test pending..........from an honest source. :D

[intocarss]

Thanks Trey :thumbsup:


Sure that isn't an image of me in the garage going hmm, hmm, hmm? :D

We're bringing good thoughts your way

[Sieg]

Made a little progress today.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-M9W4sTC/0/M/i-M9W4sTC-M.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XKDSfnb/0/M/i-XKDSfnb-M.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TjH6nKm/0/M/i-TjH6nKm-M.jpg

Driver quality at best but an improvement. ;)

[GregWeld]

..... and surely you used self etching primer for that bare metal....


:cheers: :thumbsup:



Next stop -- SEMA!

[Sieg]

..... and surely you used self etching primer for that bare metal....

:cheers: :thumbsup:

Next stop -- SEMA!
Duplicolor :thumbsup:

SEMA :rofl:

[intocarss]

Looking at what was there before you made a delete panel

Both look nice But I liked this and the way you kept the knobs

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-NH9VwCx/0/L/IMGP0002-L.jpg

[Sieg]

Both look nice But I liked this and the way you kept the knobs
I'll secure some period correct radio knobs and mount magnets on them if that would make you sleep better at night? :D

[intocarss]

I'll secure some period correct radio knobs and mount magnets on them if that would make you sleep better at night? :D

You're the best Siegla :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Before you spend hours and hours --- swap in a different battery and see if there's any improvement. If it improves you've found your problem - if not - now you can spend hours and hours...

My guess is a bad battery ---- and or a starter that is getting heat soaked -- but it wouldn't be heat soak if you can't start it 3 or 4 times COLD... right in a row. ANY good battery should be able to start a car several times without fail.

Load test performed, 685 amps cranking..........."there's nothing wrong with this battery."

So is it a wiring issue as in insufficient ground or could I have abused the new Powermaster mini-starters solenoid during my attempting to fire the motor circus? :_paranoid

[GregWeld]

Load test performed, 685 amps cranking..........."there's nothing wrong with this battery."

So is it a wiring issue as in insufficient ground or could I have abused the new Powermaster mini-starters solenoid during my attempting to fire the motor circus? :_paranoid

You're guess is as good as anyones.... Grounds are critical - and if you think you have that done properly... then I'd pull the starter and take it and get it tested. Doesn't take long to pull one... Oh wait... that's at my house with the lift! Well... jack 'er up and get busy!

:faint: :unibrow:

[Sieg]

You're guess is as good as anyones.... Grounds are critical - and if you think you have that done properly... then I'd pull the starter and take it and get it tested. Doesn't take long to pull one... Oh wait... that's at my house with the lift! Well... jack 'er up and get busy!

:faint: :unibrow:

http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/bitchslap.gif

I'll check the voltage drops in the leads and go from there. :unibrow:

FWIW - Your guesses appear to be better edumakated than mine on the average. http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/happy57.gif

[GregWeld]

http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/bitchslap.gif

I'll check the voltage drops in the leads and go from there. :unibrow:

FWIW - Your guesses appear to be better edumakated than mine on the average. http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/happy57.gif


You'll need to check voltage drop --- AND resistance (Ohms). High resistance would lead me to check connections for corrosion... tight secured terminals... etc. Then if that all looked good then I'd be yarding the starter for a load test on it.

Now --- you may also have an issue at the ignition switch / wiring to it/to starter. So after you've cranked it 3 times or so --- I'd be feeling for heat in any of the wires out of that switch. Just gently put your hand around the bundle and see if there's a hot one... 'Cause the switch could be breaking down --- or a corrosion issue or connector that's loose etc. Might carry the load once -- then heat up and go apoplectic.

[intocarss]

:question: :question: :question: :question: :question: :question:

[Sieg]

:question: :question: :question: :question: :question: :question:

Christmas break........chill dawgy

[intocarss]

Christmas break........chill dawgy:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :hail:

[bigt]

I must have missed how the sifter leak got fixed. Can you go over that again?

[FETorino]

I must have missed how the sifter leak got fixed. Can you go over that again?

Not sure what Sieg's ultimate solution was but

I spoke to American Powertrain at SEMA and they now make their own seal for the white lightning shifter to eliminate the problem.:thumbsup:

[Roberts68]

Not sure what Sieg's ultimate solution was but

I spoke to Modern Driveline at SEMA and they now make their own seal for the white lightning shifter to eliminate the problem.:thumbsup:

Good to know... since I didn't let Sieg disuade me from the White Lightning despite the troubles he had and all the in depth research and videos he did.

Maybe a silly question, but do both Modern Driveline and American Powertrain market the White Lightning? Who actually makes it? I bought mine from AP but to date it resides in a box for Someday.

[FETorino]

Good to know... since I didn't let Sieg disuade me from the White Lightning despite the troubles he had and all the in depth research and videos he did.

Maybe a silly question, but do both Modern Driveline and American Powertrain market the White Lightning? Who actually makes it? I bought mine from AP but to date it resides in a box for Someday.

Brain fart on my part I meant American Powertrain. I've decided to use Bruce for my purchase so I had MD on the mind.:willy: :willy:

[Roberts68]

Brain fart on my part I meant American Powertrain. I've decided to use Bruce for my purchase so I had MD on the mind.:willy: :willy:

Ah, right on. It happens! Thanks for the clarification and the lead on the existence of a seal should I need one. They said they would stand behind the part, because I grilled them about Siegs issue and he and I were both talking to them at the time he was posting those vids.

Not really an official threadjack, you know how formal this thread has been:rolleyes:
Quick, post a random picture of a dog, or better yet any picture of nice boobies and nobody will be any the wiser!

As you were.:lol:

[FETorino]

Not really an official threadjack, you know how formal this thread has been:rolleyes:
Quick, post a random picture of a dog, or better yet any picture of nice boobies and nobody will be any the wiser!

As you were.:lol:

:_paranoid :_paranoid :_paranoid :_paranoid

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/coco-6-INFphoto_2135789_zpsf256580b.jpg

:cheers:

[Sieg]

I must have missed how the sifter leak got fixed. Can you go over that again?

Not sure what Sieg's ultimate solution was but

I spoke to Modern Driveline at SEMA and they now make their own seal for the white lightning shifter to eliminate the problem.:thumbsup:

Good to know... since I didn't let Sieg disuade me from the White Lightning despite the troubles he had and all the in depth research and videos he did.

Maybe a silly question, but do both Modern Driveline and American Powertrain market the White Lightning? Who actually makes it? I bought mine from AP but to date it resides in a box for Someday.

Short story - The Hurst Blackjack and the White Lightning shifters were designed by the engineers to be used in the rear mounting position. They must have over-looked the fact that if mounted in the forward position the shifter pivot is directly over the top of one of the larger gears in the case which slings a lot of fluid. In the rear position the Hurst shifter was fine (a little residual around the ball, the White Lightning leaked enough that fluid was on the cover and after probably 2K miles would leave drips on the ground.

Shift action on both was good, there was pro and con (very nit-picky) differences with both with shifter location, throw length, gate width, spring tension, feel, etc. Overall fit and finish of the Hurst piece was better.

I worked closely with Jim Goodlad at Hurst Drivelines submitting internal and external photo's, external video showing the leaking, I also made a plate with gauge to pressurized the case to show it wasn't building excess pressure. Thanks to the input from others and myself Hurst took action and has re-engineered the shifter to incorporate a seal. It's not a fast process but the new shifters should be ready the first of February.

Regarding the White Lightning shifter I was told on the phone by two American Powertrain key people that they personally designed the shifter and there was no was it would leak like the "inferior" Hurst shifter. Identical situation and tests.......the White Lightning leaked twice the amount. Their resolution was poor communication (ignoring) and finally sending me a used Tremec shifter with their adjustable shifter pivot for my $300 investment and inconvenience. Not surprised since American was started by ex-Keisler employees. FWIW - I had ordered and paid a deposit on the Keisler RS600 but it started smelling fishy and canceled.

Hurst on the other hand has went above and beyond the call of fair customer service, they've exceeded expectation and then some. ;)

[preston]

Good for Hurst.

I also was not overly impressed with Keisler's operation when I did some inquiries with them.

[intocarss]

:_paranoid :_paranoid :_paranoid :_paranoid

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/coco-6-INFphoto_2135789_zpsf256580b.jpg

:cheers:

Now we're getting somewhere :thumbsup:

[Roberts68]

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/coco-6-INFphoto_2135789_zpsf256580b.jpg

:cheers:

Those puppies look like the ferocious kind that require lots of attention. :D

[Sieg]

OK, back to nipples, crap! I meant electrical. :rofl:

You'll need to check voltage drop --- AND resistance (Ohms). High resistance would lead me to check connections for corrosion... tight secured terminals... etc. Then if that all looked good then I'd be yarding the starter for a load test on it.

Now --- you may also have an issue at the ignition switch / wiring to it/to starter. So after you've cranked it 3 times or so --- I'd be feeling for heat in any of the wires out of that switch. Just gently put your hand around the bundle and see if there's a hot one... 'Cause the switch could be breaking down --- or a corrosion issue or connector that's loose etc. Might carry the load once -- then heat up and go apoplectic.

Actually had weather that allowed a test drive. Checked the battery voltage after it was off the tender for an hour and had 13.17v, then went on a 20 minute drive with minimal stops only running the heater on low and no other lights or accessories. Shut it down and it restarted with no noticeable starter laboring. Checked the voltage again and it was 13.07.

[WSSix]

Check it in the morning and see what it reads.

Also, if your multimeter can read amps, remove the positive lead off the batter and read between the cable and the battery. You should have little to no amperage depending on what stays on while the car is off ie clock or security system. You'll need to make sure the interior lights are off before you do this.

I found a bad relay on a 76 vette that was killing the battery. It was part of the factory alarm system so there was no outward indication that anything was staying on when the car was off. Just had to follow the draw on the power source to its end.

[Sieg]

Just checked the battery and it was 12.87v. I'll check again in the morning.

When checking for amp draw between battery and positive lead the alarm started chirping real soft at 200u with each increase on the scale it got louder.

This is interesting as I noticed the last time I disconnected and reconnected the battery the alarm didn't trigger as it normally would. So I could have a bad relay in the alarm......possibly one that's the ignition kill circuit? Could this test possibly have reset the system? I doubt I could get that lucky...........but I'd take the win. :D Or a poor alarm ground?

FWIW - It's an older Viper system with shock, motion, ignition kill, and door locks. Time to dig for the alarm manual from twenty plus years ago.........

It's not easy being dump as a stump when it comes to electrical systems. :(

[WSSix]

Hmmmm, I'm not sure about the alarm chirping. Were you maxing out the scale as you increased from micro, u, ie did the reading go higher than the scale would allow and that's why you increased the scale?

If nothing else, I'd disconnect the alarm and see if that stops the voltage drop. To me, a 20 year old alarm is nothing but a noise maker. It won't even come close to stopping a thief that wants the car.

[Sieg]

Trey, I wasn't focused on the reading when I noticed the alarm, I was listening. I'm guessing I can replicate the condition.

Agree on the alarm system value, but the car thief's we have in our area aren't very sophisticated. The power door locks are the best part of the system. I'll be re-evaluating the system in the near future as I was never impressed with the attention to detail of the original install. The NGR steering wheel quick-release I just installed is a better theft deterrent IMO.

Just check the battery after sitting over night and most of the day without the tender or alarm on and it's reading 12.66v. I'm running the car in to town so I'll check for draw after the trip.

Thanks for the input. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

No starting issues with two restarts on the trip. Checked battery on return 13.44v and after an hour down to 13.08. Watched the volt gauge while driving with heater on low 15.1v, with parking lights or headlights 14.2v. It appears the charging system is OK.

Also checked the battery leads, .6 ohms resistance. Exploration and testing to be continued.............

[intocarss]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/tumblr_llgc9lbA0l1qebsc0o1_500.jpg

[GregWeld]

Okay -- I'll just keep SCUBA diving since you don't seem to need my .02 worth of expertise.


:D

[Sieg]

Okay -- I'll just keep SCUBA diving since you don't seem to need my .02 worth of expertise.


:D
Still waiting for pics. :unibrow:

I haven't forgot........
You'll need to check voltage drop --- AND resistance (Ohms). High resistance would lead me to check connections for corrosion... tight secured terminals... etc. Then if that all looked good then I'd be yarding the starter for a load test on it.

Now --- you may also have an issue at the ignition switch / wiring to it/to starter. So after you've cranked it 3 times or so --- I'd be feeling for heat in any of the wires out of that switch. Just gently put your hand around the bundle and see if there's a hot one... 'Cause the switch could be breaking down --- or a corrosion issue or connector that's loose etc. Might carry the load once -- then heat up and go apoplectic.


Holiday stuff was getting in the way of my gear-heading tasks list.

[Sieg]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/tumblr_llgc9lbA0l1qebsc0o1_500.jpg
Dawgis - Shouldn't you be tinkering on your friction generators? :D

[intocarss]

Dawgis - Shouldn't you be tinkering on your friction generators? :D:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Sieg]

In my own redneck way I might have isolated the starter issue. While adjusting the valves tonight with a remote start switch I'd get 3-4 contacts and nothing, let it cool down and repeat with same results. Must have abused the solenoid during the firing debacle. :(

[intocarss]

:theresa: :theresa: :theresa:

:_party:

[Sieg]

Just for you GW:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RbKbrZB/0/L/i-RbKbrZB-L.jpg

[GregWeld]

SWEET!!!


Is it in yet?




:thumbsup:

[Sieg]

SWEET!!!

Is it in yet?

:thumbsup:
That's the bad one silly. After running the valves last night I went to take a test drive in today's perfect weather and it wouldn't fire. :mad: So that starter wasn't doing any good in the car. :D New solenoid is on order.........

[GregWeld]

Well that one looks brand new....


Who screws up a perfectly good, brand new, starter solenoid??



SMH


Seriously -- I hope it's as simple as that. I like simple.

[Sieg]

Well that one looks brand new....

Who screws up a perfectly good, brand new, starter solenoid??

SMH

Seriously -- I hope it's as simple as that. I like simple.
Who - Some idiot that puts 5+ years of wear on his starter trying to fire an engine with a bad distributor ground. That's who. :P

At least that's the ASSumption I'm operating under.........$27 for the solenoid isn't the end of the world.

[intocarss]

SWEET!!!


Is it in yet?




:thumbsup: Holy Hell I'm scared

[Sieg]

Holy Hell I'm scared

Beats being jealous.............:unibrow:

[Sieg]

SWEET!!!

Is it in yet?

:thumbsup:
Done deal and it works!

Enjoying the weather over there? :D

[intocarss]

Done deal and it works!

Enjoying the weather over there? :D

About time :rolleyes:

Glad you got it fixed Now take Tucker for a cruz!!

[GregWeld]

Done deal and it works!

Enjoying the weather over there? :D



Nothing beats a good hurricane and horizontal rain...

Makes me feel at home. :(

[GregWeld]

This starter reminds me of when I re-did the fuel tank on the Nomad... and figured as long as I was there I'd swap out the fuel pump relay for a new one... the old one had been in there for maybe 5 years... Fired it up - drove to meet Rudy for breakfast before the GoodGuys show. Turned it off - had breakfast - came out -- nothing - no pressure - no sound. Jumped the fuel pump and she ran just fine...so the brand new relay was removed and the old one fished from the garbage and re-installed - it's been in there ever since.

[Sieg]

Nothing beats a good hurricane and horizontal rain...

Makes me feel at home. :(

I've been watching the golf tourney and it's bad...........enough to cancel the first round and restart today.

Sea's don't look friendly either..........sorry as that's probably screwing up the certification dive. :willy:


This starter reminds me of when I re-did the fuel tank on the Nomad... and figured as long as I was there I'd swap out the fuel pump relay for a new one... the old one had been in there for maybe 5 years... Fired it up - drove to meet Rudy for breakfast before the GoodGuys show. Turned it off - had breakfast - came out -- nothing - no pressure - no sound. Jumped the fuel pump and she ran just fine...so the brand new relay was removed and the old one fished from the garbage and re-installed - it's been in there ever since.
Always a possibility with electronics.........simplifies the troubleshooting. :D

In my case it was probably excessive use even though I was trying not to cook it. There were changes to the replacement solenoid. Switch terminal was beefier and brass vs. plated, 2 shims were included and instructions said use them (not optional), and the spring was black oxide coated vs. zinc.

[GregWeld]

No - she's got two more dives today off the boat... and she'll be a certified fish.

We got two dives in yesterday... so she's finished her skills. The little bay right here isn't bad and has some protection from two reefs. Although yesterdays viz was horrible.

I have never been anywhere that the wind blew 24 hours a day for days! This has blown as hard at night as it has during the day for like 4 days now without ANY change in sound or furry. :wow:

[Roberts68]

Sounds like changes for the better. Maybe they had enough failures that it prompted them to make upgrades. Gotta like that they are proactive in that regard.

Seeing how it is 7 degrees here and clean roads are months away, and add in the mountain of work I will do before I can enjoy my car... it is with immense envy I wish youHappy Motoring!:thumbsup:

[Sieg]

No - she's got two more dives today off the boat... and she'll be a certified fish.

We got two dives in yesterday... so she's finished her skills. The little bay right here isn't bad and has some protection from two reefs. Although yesterdays viz was horrible.

I have never been anywhere that the wind blew 24 hours a day for days! This has blown as hard at night as it has during the day for like 4 days now without ANY change in sound or furry. :wow:
Glad to hear it didn't kill the diving! :thumbsup:

The golf was humorous as the flag sticks looked like they were hooked up with a Marlin most the time. Players were just shaking their heads........at least the ones with a sense of humor. :D

[Sieg]

Sounds like changes for the better. Maybe they had enough failures that it prompted them to make upgrades. Gotta like that they are proactive in that regard.

Seeing how it is 7 degrees here and clean roads are months away, and add in the mountain of work I will do before I can enjoy my car... it is with immense envy I wish youHappy Motoring!:thumbsup:
If it's any consolation: http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=44.07426708270817&lon=-123.01769256591797
Garage time is here too! One to two hour windows of opportunity about 5 times a month for the next 3 months is my guess. :thumbsup:

I'd guess they were seeing issues..........cause if it ain't broke why fix it?

[intocarss]

MID 60's + here and sunny all day long :lol:

[Sieg]

MID 60's + here and sunny all day long :lol:

So you're putting on the thong and partying at the beach?

http://swimmingtrunksformen.net/wp-content/uploads/Mens-Thong-Swimwear.jpg

:woot:

[Roberts68]

Holy hell has the quality of images in this thread degraded.:(

How exactly does someone un-see something like that?:faint:
:cheers:

[glassman]

Who's dog is that? I'm scared...

[FETorino]

Holy hell has the quality of images in this thread degraded.:(

How exactly does someone un-see something like that?:faint:
:cheers:

Let the Ford guy fix it. :D

Fords have the solenoid on the inner fender.:thumbsup: Just sayin

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/baywatch_zps05743d2b.jpg

[Sieg]

Fords have the solenoid on the inner fender.:thumbsup: Just sayin

Making something simple complicated doesn't make it faster. :D

[intocarss]

So you're putting on the thong and partying at the beach?

http://swimmingtrunksformen.net/wp-content/uploads/Mens-Thong-Swimwear.jpg

:woot: You win Sieggy you win lol

[Sieg]

You win Sieggy you win lol
You must have been at the beach all day yesterday? :unibrow:

[FETorino]

Making something simple complicated doesn't make it faster. :D

Good point.

You could have replaced 50 posts and 20 days of R&D with a screwdriver across the terminals.:rofl:

[Sieg]

Good point.

You could have replaced 50 posts and 20 days of R&D with a screwdriver across the terminals.:rofl:

http://france.worldcupblog.org/files/2009/11/crying-baby-300x300.jpg

a picture is worth 50 posts...........

[intocarss]

You must have been at the beach all day yesterday? :unibrow:

And you must of been spying on me

[Sieg]

OK, back to car stuff. :D

Starter works, valves readjusted again as setting them from zero lash (just to the tension the pushrod wouldn't turn) and pre-loading a 1/2 turn was resulting in a couple rattlers. Re-adjusted checking the previous pre-load when backing them off and reset them with 5/8 pre-load which quieted them down but still detect a little valve train clatter so I'll probably give them another 1/8 turn for a total of 3/4.

After the valves I pulled the card to check transfer slot exposure which is supposed to be .025" according to the Holley tech. My Demon was spec'd at .020". As suspected due to flat condition right off idle, the transfer slots were not exposed which probably happened during the break in when my helper dialed them open and didn't note the turns in.

I fire the motor with the slots set at .025" and fuel screws at a rich 1.75 turns out, and the idle bypass circuit in the mid position approx. 2.5 turns out from open. When up to temp the idle speed was 2,200, closing the idle bypass circuit lowered it to 2,100 rpm.

I tried leaning and richening the fuel screws to see if they would have any impact on idle speed adjustment via the bypass valve but no luck. I backed off the throttle idle screws 5/8 of a turn and obtained 1K rpm but from the top of the venturi's it looks like the transfer slots are close to zero exposure again. A quick test drive indicated it was still a little flat when the clutch fulling engaged but it was an improvement from previous settings.

Looks like the only way I'm going to get some transfer slot exposure and the idle speed around 900-1,000 is by backing off the 16* initial timing and setting idle speed with initial timing to a point that allows some idle speed adjustment via the carb circuits.

Then make up the loss of initial timing with more total mechanical and quicker ramp up via lighter springs.

Does it sound like I'm on the right track?

[GregWeld]

Long answer - yes


Short answer - yes


Be careful trying to quiet down the valve train... you don't want to preload those hydraulic lifters too much. Half a turn on ARP studs equals .030" and a full turn should be .060"

Can't remember - did you go with flat tappet cam? What's different? Rocker arms? Rollers?

[Sieg]

Flat tappet same cam specs reground, existing rockers - Comp Cam Magnums stamped roller tip 1.5 ratio, existing push rods, new Sealed Power HT817R lifters.

The heads didn't have studs, I installed Comp Cam 45022's that are 3/8-24, previous heads had 24 pitch thread also.

Don't want to cross the line, that's why I started at 1/2 turn which appeared to be what the shop had them set at. When that didn't quiet what sounds like one or two lifters when decelerating in the 2,000 to 1,000 rpm range I double checked my work and added an 1/8 turn. I only did a short trip around the neighborhood so a longer drive is in order.:D

The typical recommended pre-load is 1/2-3/4, but you can find recommendations of up to 1+ and if it's on the internet it's true. :D

[GregWeld]

Yeah ---- I'd be waiting for Jer to chime in and see what he thinks...

I'm not a lifter guy... and run hydraulic rollers -- but I also have lifter noise in my hot rod motors... but it doesn't bother me... cause I also have injectors clicking etc. That's why I love loud exhaust!


LOL

[Sieg]

Yeah ---- I'd be waiting for Jer to chime in and see what he thinks...

I'm not a lifter guy... and run hydraulic rollers -- but I also have lifter noise in my hot rod motors... but it doesn't bother me... cause I also have injectors clicking etc. That's why I love loud exhaust!


LOL

It's times like this I wish I had mechanical lifters. :D

The exhaust isn't quiet and it does have a quiet gear drive........... :P

[intocarss]

I go zero lash then 1/2-1 turn.. (some guys only go 1/2 turn) I adj intake when exhaust starts opening and exhaust when Int starts to close

IMOHO once the cam is broke in, I like to go over it again with the engine running, I have a cut valve cover to stop from making a total mess

Back off the rocker nut until you here a clicking and then tighten down until the clicking just stops then go 1/2- 1 turn

This can explain it better then I can and saves me from a lot of typing ;)


http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Adjusting_hydraulic_lifters

http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/tappets.html

[Vince@Meanstreets]

then another 1/8 turn while tightening your lock allen.....are you positive it isnt a header leak? triple check. that one gets everyone.

[Sieg]

Thanks Jerry :thumbsup:

I ran them lifter heading down adjust the adjacent valve.

The more I thought about it adjusting while running made sense. I could take the plasma cutter to the old set of valve covers.

Appreciate the input.

[Sieg]

then another 1/8 turn while tightening your lock allen.....are you positive it isnt a header leak? triple check. that one gets everyone.

NO! But I did think about the possibility more than once. :D It sounds too mechanical to me and during low rpm during decel though they sound a little lose at initial start-up. Lower oil pressure levels in both conditions.

You always come up with the logically obvious! Obviously a lot of experience. I will double check though. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

MAKE SURE YOUR ROCKERS AREN'T HITTING THE VALVE COVER I ran the same VC's you are and some of my rockers were hitting

[Sieg]

Latest addition:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-NVKKGZ2/1/L/i-NVKKGZ2-L.jpg

I know the first time I need to get upside down in the seat to go under the dash on the drivers side I'm going to forget I have it. :yes:

Also relocated the GPS with a Ram Mount ball mounted under the ashtray.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FpmR6Dc/1/L/i-FpmR6Dc-L.jpg

Next priority is a gas pedal that is closer (depth and width) to the brake pedal so I can "heal & toe" with the sides of my foot. These Sparco's or similar might work:
http://www.sparcousa.com/sites/default/files/products/tuning_pedals_corsa_03775.jpg

Eliminating the clutch and brake pedal pads will close depth gap 3/8" or so and it doesn't look like it would be too difficult to make a pedal mount that's a 1/2 to 5/8 taller. Unless someone knows of and aftermarket piece. :unibrow:

[Sieg]

MAKE SURE YOUR ROCKERS AREN'T HITTING THE VALVE COVER I ran the same VC's you are and some of my rockers were hitting
Hmmm, glad I'm not using cork gaskets!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-cvgx5TZ/0/L/i-cvgx5TZ-L.jpg

[intocarss]

I have alum roller rockers and some hit. Are those stock type rocker nuts? You should really use Poly Locks

Your INT is looking good. I like my NRG hub Now I don't have to pull the seat to get under the dash..

I use cork gaskets So what are ya trying to say?? LOLOL ;)

[Sieg]

OK, back to car stuff. :D

Starter works, valves readjusted again as setting them from zero lash (just to the tension the pushrod wouldn't turn) and pre-loading a 1/2 turn was resulting in a couple rattlers. Re-adjusted checking the previous pre-load when backing them off and reset them with 5/8 pre-load which quieted them down but still detect a little valve train clatter so I'll probably give them another 1/8 turn for a total of 3/4.

After the valves I pulled the card to check transfer slot exposure which is supposed to be .025" according to the Holley tech. My Demon was spec'd at .020". As suspected due to flat condition right off idle, the transfer slots were not exposed which probably happened during the break in when my helper dialed them open and didn't note the turns in.

I fire the motor with the slots set at .025" and fuel screws at a rich 1.75 turns out, and the idle bypass circuit in the mid position approx. 2.5 turns out from open. When up to temp the idle speed was 2,200, closing the idle bypass circuit lowered it to 2,100 rpm.

I tried leaning and richening the fuel screws to see if they would have any impact on idle speed adjustment via the bypass valve but no luck. I backed off the throttle idle screws 5/8 of a turn and obtained 1K rpm but from the top of the venturi's it looks like the transfer slots are close to zero exposure again. A quick test drive indicated it was still a little flat when the clutch fulling engaged but it was an improvement from previous settings.

Looks like the only way I'm going to get some transfer slot exposure and the idle speed around 900-1,000 is by backing off the 16* initial timing and setting idle speed with initial timing to a point that allows some idle speed adjustment via the carb circuits.

Then make up the loss of initial timing with more total mechanical and quicker ramp up via lighter springs.

Does it sound like I'm on the right track?

Just came in from setting the timing or attempting to set it. Got it up to temp checked idle timing and it was at 15.5*-16* as previously set. Bumped the idle speed up with throttle shaft adjusters, loosened the distributor and retarded to 14* but it want to float about +/-2*, snugged the clamp and it was still floating and idle was still high in relation to carb transfer slots. Loosened and backed the idle down (roughly 1,200 to 1,000) with ignition and it was still floating around, check it at had about 12* and tightened the clamp about 20 ft lbs. Revved the motor a little and it settles in at 4*. Revved it again and got a little backfire and flame through the carb. When I shut the motor off I thought I heard a subtle thump at the rear of the car. I also have noticed that the fuel pressure appears down from 6 psi to 5 while running and it bleeds off pressure quicker than usual after the motor is shut down.http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/headscratch.gif


Stopped while typing this and went back at it and the car was hesitant to start, full pedal and it finally lit and acted fine. Check timing and it was a 4* as before, fuel pressure at 5 psi. Checked distributor hold down and it was tight. When revved the motor is slower than usual to return to idle. Tried again to set timing at 10 - 12* and the slightest rotation of the distributor (1/32") would take the timing from 4* to 12-16* and I couldn't get it to lock down in the 10-12* range it would lock lower at 4* or higher at 14-16*, locked at 4* and shut it off and heard the thump again and it sounded like it could have been the Flowmaster 80 series transverse muffler due to a backfire in the exhaust. Fired it again and it acted fine revved good decent throttle response and returned idle quicker.

-Distributor was loosened enough to turn but not without effort.
-Cap looks good.
-Rotor - contact arm was slightly loose (would move a 32nd with a little pressure), Loctited and snugged down.
-Inductive pickups in distributor are snug, clean, no damage. vacuum lockout is tight, etc.
-Geardrive ?????????
-Distributor gear ????????
-Fuel pressure issue???????

Something isn't right.............but the motor sounds crisp and sync'd at a 1K idle from behind.

I certainly don't trust the symptoms a this point. :(

Any clues appreciated. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

It's too late -- and after reading this a couple times --- I've got to give this one some thought....


The one thing we KNOW has changed is your valve adjustment....


Are you hand rolling the motor to find the base of the cam lobes? There's a procedure for doing this...

[Vegas69]

Mechanical advance has to be sticking.

[Sieg]

It's too late -- and after reading this a couple times --- I've got to give this one some thought....


The one thing we KNOW has changed is your valve adjustment....


Are you hand rolling the motor to find the base of the cam lobes? There's a procedure for doing this...
Thanks Greg.

I'm not hand rolling, tapping through the stroke with remote switch. When a rocker starts on the down stroke one more tap and adjust the adjacent valve, if the valve goes over the top I catch it on the next cycle. When in doubt I'd double check. All adjustments were documented on a map.

:question:

[Sieg]

Mechanical advance has to be sticking.
Thanks Todd, I twisted the rotor to check for travel and smoothness earlier and it felt ok.........
I'll pull the rotor tomorrow and check the springs and advance bushing in more detail. I did just change a spring and bushing. Hope it's that simple. :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Mechanical advance has to be sticking.

sounds like it....or the springs are too light...can you get the idle down to 900?
i'd check to see if you have too much idle circuit in the secondaries. shove a clean rag in the secondary bores to see if the engine stalls.

[DaleTx]

Just came in from setting the timing or attempting to set it. Got it up to temp checked idle timing and it was at 15.5*-16* as previously set. Bumped the idle speed up with throttle shaft adjusters, loosened the distributor and retarded to 14* but it want to float about +/-2*, snugged the clamp and it was still floating and idle was still high in relation to carb transfer slots. Loosened and backed the idle down (roughly 1,200 to 1,000) with ignition and it was still floating around, check it at had about 12* and tightened the clamp about 20 ft lbs. Revved the motor a little and it settles in at 4*. Revved it again and got a little backfire and flame through the carb. When I shut the motor off I thought I heard a subtle thump at the rear of the car. I also have noticed that the fuel pressure appears down from 6 psi to 5 while running and it bleeds off pressure quicker than usual after the motor is shut down.http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/headscratch.gif


Stopped while typing this and went back at it and the car was hesitant to start, full pedal and it finally lit and acted fine. Check timing and it was a 4* as before, fuel pressure at 5 psi. Checked distributor hold down and it was tight. When revved the motor is slower than usual to return to idle. Tried again to set timing at 10 - 12* and the slightest rotation of the distributor (1/32") would take the timing from 4* to 12-16* and I couldn't get it to lock down in the 10-12* range it would lock lower at 4* or higher at 14-16*, locked at 4* and shut it off and heard the thump again and it sounded like it could have been the Flowmaster 80 series transverse muffler due to a backfire in the exhaust. Fired it again and it acted fine revved good decent throttle response and returned idle quicker.

-Distributor was loosened enough to turn but not without effort.
-Cap looks good.
-Rotor - contact arm was slightly loose (would move a 32nd with a little pressure), Loctited and snugged down.
-Inductive pickups in distributor are snug, clean, no damage. vacuum lockout is tight, etc.
-Geardrive ?????????
-Distributor gear ????????
-Fuel pressure issue???????

Something isn't right.............but the motor sounds crisp and sync'd at a 1K idle from behind.

I certainly don't trust the symptoms a this point. :(

Any clues appreciated. :thumbsup:

If you are using the lighter springs on the distributor advance, and your idle is high (over 1,000) then I'd bet your advance is just starting to kick in at idle. This would explain why the timing is inconsistent and changes so much when you just barely move the distributor. If you have one size heavier spring for the distributor advance then try that and see what happens.

This could also explain why the engine is not returning to idle properly.

Just an idea for something to try. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

sounds like it....or the springs are too light...can you get the idle down to 900?
i'd check to see if you have too much idle circuit in the secondaries. shove a clean rag in the secondary bores to see if the engine stalls.


Distributor has a silver and blue spring currently, it was running fine with that set up but I found out the transfers slots were not exposed so I set them at .025 and had a 2K idle. The symptoms started when I loosened the distributor to retard the initial timing from 16* to a number that would deliver an acceptable idle speed and carb settings.

I can get it below 1K with little or no transfer slot exposure (.025 is spec). Problem was flat power as the clutch engaged.

[Sieg]

If you are using the lighter springs on the distributor advance, and your idle is high (over 1,000) then I'd bet your advance is just starting to kick in at idle. This would explain why the timing is inconsistent and changes so much when you just barely move the distributor. If you have one size heavier spring for the distributor advance then try that and see what happens.

This could also explain why the engine is not returning to idle properly.

Just an idea for something to try. :thumbsup:
Thanks Dale I hope it's that simple!

Just read your entire build thread, nice car and the motor package is impressive. Has to be a kick on the track. I'm assuming PIR? Have you been to ORP or The Ridge?

[makoshark]

Have you given thought to running a MSD programmable digital 6al-2 box? Extra cost you would have to incur, but it could possibly solve your issues. One of its features is that it locks out your mechanical advance and gives you the ability to program your timing curve through the box. This gives you the ability to fine tune your timing curve you, otherwise, would not be able to.

[Sieg]

Have you given thought to running a MSD programmable digital 6al-2 box? Extra cost you would have to incur, but it could possibly solve your issues. One of its features is that it locks out your mechanical advance and gives you the ability to program your timing curve through the box. This gives you the ability to fine tune your timing curve you, otherwise, would not be able to.

I haven't with the 60's John Deere technology motor........yet. :D
Hopefully it's a simple issue with the mechanical advance.

[makoshark]

Actually, the olds chool SBC would benefit more from such an ignition add-on than a modern motor would. Modern motors with their coil/cylinder and plethora of tuning through the computer wouldn't have much use for such. I have one ready to go on my motor

[protour73]

Scott, I've really enjoyed your build thread, but the invaluable part is all of the ignition timing troubleshooting help from all of the guys chiming in. It's really helping me on understanding my own car's issues!!! :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Scott, I've really enjoyed your build thread, but the invaluable part is all of the ignition timing troubleshooting help from all of the guys chiming in. It's really helping me on understanding my own car's issues!!! :thumbsup:
Thanks. It's kind of a cluster but covers the experience. :D

The knowledge and experience on this forum is second to none and priceless IMO. Even for those of us hiding in the closet working on old school budget stuff. :thumbsup:

:lateral:

[protour73]

Thanks. It's kind of a cluster but covers the experience. :D

The knowledge and experience on this forum is second to none and priceless IMO. Even for those of us hiding in the closet working on old school budget stuff. :thumbsup:

:lateral:You just described my build, carbed, Gen II small block with leaf springs and 17" wheels with a sprinkling of nice quality parts. I avoided siding with the "hiding in the closet" crowd!! LOL :rofl:

[Sieg]

You just described my build, carbed, Gen II small block with leaf springs and 17" wheels with a sprinkling of nice quality parts. I avoided siding with the "hiding in the closet" crowd!! LOL :rofl:
:thumbsup:

One upside is my car just "comfortably" appraised at 10x's it's original sticker price which means I'm honestly in the green on the project though I doubt it will ever be for sale. :)

[GregWeld]

Distributor has a silver and blue spring currently, it was running fine with that set up but I found out the transfers slots were not exposed so I set them at .025 and had a 2K idle. The symptoms started when I loosened the distributor to retard the initial timing from 16* to a number that would deliver an acceptable idle speed and carb settings.

I can get it below 1K with little or no transfer slot exposure (.025 is spec). Problem was flat power as the clutch engaged.


When chasing an issue --- you want to only change ONE THING at a time --- see the result and then move on or move back. That's just my old skool de-bugging.

So we really have three things going on now...

Carb transfer slot adjustment.


The problem with adjusting carbs with seat of the pants tests is that you don't have a baseline set of numbers to work from. Jet size etc. We don't know if the thing is pig fat - or going lean with clutch engagement. Carbs are simple but they're also tricky. There's actually a lot going on there and most people don't really have the experience to do much other than mess up the idle adjustment...



Valve adjustment


I'm sorry - and don't want to embarrass you while trying to find your issue. But the adjustment sequence you gave isn't right. I hope you were just typing a short response. The backfire - and the exhaust "sound" you've described is wanting to tell me that your valves aren't closing. This could be a timing issue as well -- but this all started after you adjusted the valves... so I'm just trying to find "something" -- and the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result. :willy: :lol:


d_IOYwwKjTE



Timing adjustment



I have had more than just a couple SBC motors.... :unibrow: and this spring combo won't make your timing jump from 4* to 14/16* by moving the distributor a half a blonde one. Something else is going on here. I don't know what it is - but it's not the spring combo. Todd mentioned sticking advance and that's possible. Or the stop bushing isn't engaged correctly. I'd pull the distributor and actually look at that. With it out - you can work the advance and see if it's free and comes back properly etc.

[Sieg]

I've got two dogs hounding me to take them for a 2 mile walk in 27* temps right now.............Rev I can handle, Tucker is getting a little forceful. :_paranoid

Reply to follow........don't worry about embarrassing me, if I was worried I wouldn't post where the lions feed. :D :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

I've got two dogs hounding me to take them for a 2 mile walk in 27* temps right now.............Rev I can handle, Tucker is getting a little forceful. :_paranoid



:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/dane.jpg

[Sieg]

Thanks Greg.

I'm not hand rolling, tapping through the stroke with remote switch. When a rocker starts on the down stroke one more tap and adjust the adjacent valve, if the valve goes over the top I catch it on the next cycle. When in doubt I'd double check. All adjustments were documented on a map.

:question:


Valve adjustment


I'm sorry - and don't want to embarrass you while trying to find your issue. But the adjustment sequence you gave isn't right. I hope you were just typing a short response. The backfire - and the exhaust "sound" you've described is wanting to tell me that your valves aren't closing. This could be a timing issue as well -- but this all started after you adjusted the valves... so I'm just trying to find "something" -- and the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result. :willy: :lol:
Keeping with the one thing at a time theme......:D
When positioning one valve just shy of the top of the lobe it was my understanding that would insure the adjacent valve would be on the base circle of the lobe?

When I backed off the nut I noted the amount of turn it took to obtain zero lash to verify previous adjustment. (The previous run checked out to very close to 1/2 a turn of preload as intended) Then I backed it out a little farther wiggled the rocker and pushrod to "center" and took it down to one definition of zero lash which is firm resistance on the rotation of the pushrod. That may be a max of 1/16 of a turn more than the up and down method? From that point I gave the lifter 5/8 of a turn preload.

At 1,200-1,400 rpm the exhaust note of the motor doesn't indicate a valve not closing or a weak cylinder. It sounded as good as it ever has. I would assume a valve not fully closing would be noticeable by exhaust note and cylinder balance?

[Sieg]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/dane.jpg
I've thought about that but the cart would need 6 piston caliper brakes and more tire to stop him, especially if there's a lady in heat around. :D

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-mr5Gw2M/0/M/i-mr5Gw2M-M.jpg

knWXcPLLu4s

Brisk beautiful 27* morning.......
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-qnqdG9J/0/L/i-qnqdG9J-L.jpg

[DaleTx]

Thanks Dale I hope it's that simple!

Just read your entire build thread, nice car and the motor package is impressive. Has to be a kick on the track. I'm assuming PIR? Have you been to ORP or The Ridge?

Thanks Sieg... Good luck solving the issue with the tune. like Greg said just make on change at a time and you'll eventually get it.

So far I have only run the car at PIR. I'll look into those other tracks you mentioned, I'd love to try something else.... thanks :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

Here is another way to adj valves (this is the way I was taught)

Yes, this is a Mech cam but we've used this method on hyd cams too

3gMYWLMAzao

[intocarss]

Hey Sieg, where does REV think he's going? LOL at brakes on cart and you sure do live in a beautiful area :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Hey Sieg, where does REV think he's going? LOL at brakes on cart and you sure do live in a beautiful area :thumbsup:

If I didn't tell him to stop China may have been his plan unless he found the mouse first. He goes after raccoon's, squirrels and mice with passion. Tucker just enjoys the outdoors and hopes a good looking chick will come along. :D

We're very fortunate to live where we do. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

So without actually seeing you adjust valves --- I think that is part of the problem -- I'd START with a fresh valve adjustment using the techniques in the video.

This is CRITICAL regardless of hydraulic of solid.... and done wrong -- you'll have valves not seating fully - or valves open when they shouldn't be etc.

The backfires and gas burning in the muffler kinda leads me to think there's a bit of an issue there... Carbs don't backfire... so that is either timing --- or valve adjustment.

You're not going to know about the valves unless you just do it over with the info you've been given. Personally I use a felt tip pen and mark "I" or "E" on the head gasket surface so when I'm rolling 'em around -- I know which valve I'm working on.

Then when I was done with that --- I'd leave it so that I can watch the valve on number 1 both closed --- watching the ROTOR on the distributor -- and roll it till the timing mark is at TDC.... ALL THOSE THINGS SHOULD MATCH UP -- ROTOR on #1 -- valves on #1 closed after the INTAKE opens and comes closed -- and the timing balancer and pointer on TDC.

At that point -- I'd make a felt pen mark on the dist where the rotor is EXACTLY -- and another where the rotor ends up after she clears the cam gear (gives you a good starting point for the re-stab) -- I'd pull the distributor --- work the advance making sure she's free and snappy -- and check that the stop bushing is where it should be and there's no interference with it.... Stab it back in... after checking that the rotor is where it should be (there should be a square peg on one side)... that it seats properly -- and that the CAP looks good etc.

I'd fire it at this point and see if anything has improved -- set your timing ....

THEN I'd mess with the carb.... but not until I KNEW FOR SURE the valves and the timing are good. Carbs are DUMB -- they don't control much except the idle. :cheers:

[GregWeld]

I hadn't watch the Comp Cams video until after I posted -- that is ALSO the way I do my valve adjustments.

I mark the valve locations as I described above -- because that takes one thing off my mind while I'm watching the valves. I don't like to have to think much....

[Sieg]

So without actually seeing you adjust valves --- I think that is part of the problem -- I'd START with a fresh valve adjustment using the techniques in the video.

This is CRITICAL regardless of hydraulic of solid.... and done wrong -- you'll have valves not seating fully - or valves open when they shouldn't be etc.

The backfires and gas burning in the muffler kinda leads me to think there's a bit of an issue there... Carbs don't backfire... so that is either timing --- or valve adjustment.

You're not going to know about the valves unless you just do it over with the info you've been given. Personally I use a felt tip pen and mark "I" or "E" on the head gasket surface so when I'm rolling 'em around -- I know which valve I'm working on.

Then when I was done with that --- I'd leave it so that I can watch the valve on number 1 both closed --- watching the ROTOR on the distributor -- and roll it till the timing mark is at TDC.... ALL THOSE THINGS SHOULD MATCH UP -- ROTOR on #1 -- valves on #1 closed after the INTAKE opens and comes closed -- and the timing balancer and pointer on TDC.

At that point -- I'd make a felt pen mark on the dist where the rotor is EXACTLY -- and another where the rotor ends up after she clears the cam gear (gives you a good starting point for the re-stab) -- I'd pull the distributor --- work the advance making sure she's free and snappy -- and check that the stop bushing is where it should be and there's no interference with it.... Stab it back in... after checking that the rotor is where it should be (there should be a square peg on one side)... that it seats properly -- and that the CAP looks good etc.

I'd fire it at this point and see if anything has improved -- set your timing ....

THEN I'd mess with the carb.... but not until I KNEW FOR SURE the valves and the timing are good. Carbs are DUMB -- they don't control much except the idle. :cheers:
Distributor is out and back in, just about ready to fire it.

Advance felt ok but a little loose so I installed the two blue springs and blue bushing since I'm going for a little less initial. Don't think the black bushing could have been too tight but I didn't over torque on the re-install and act's smooth through the range.

[Sieg]

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-SDhG3pg/0/M/i-SDhG3pg-M.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Zg6zdcf/1/L/i-Zg6zdcf-L.jpg

Distributor didn't change symptoms.

Ran the valves according to Comp's EOIC method but used 3/4 turn pre-load vs 1 turn. #8 exhaust was loose at 1/4-1/3 turn of pre-load from zero lash, the others were pretty close......though I'm getting doubtful of my competence at this point. :(

Once the radiator shroud and fan are back on we'll fire it and see what happens.

[Roberts68]

I wish you luck. Hang in there buddy!

[GregWeld]

[IMG]http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Zg6zdcf/1/L/i-Zg6zdcf-L.jpg



In this pic -- the distributor is 180* "out"....


Don't know when you took the picture etc --- but just saying....

[GregWeld]

The high idle can also be chased to a vacuum leak.... Have you checked for that? All the ports on the carb plugged -- PCV working correctly? Intake sealed?

[GregWeld]

Okay -- and I see another possible issue.... ASSUMING you're running an MSD box... since I see you've put on a GM weatherpak connector on the distributor.



The Black/Violet wire is negative (-) while the Black/Orange is postive (+). The wires that come out of the MSD are Violet(+) and Green (-). The 2-Pin connectors are designed to only connect one way so the wiring cannot be switched. If for some reason the connectors are changed, be sure the wires are connected with matching polarity. If they are not, the engine may or may not start, but if it does the timing will be inconsistent and it will run rough and not accelerate.

[GregWeld]

I know I'm digging at the little things -- but at this point nothing can be taken for granted.



:thumbsup:

[bdahlg68]

I know I'm digging at the little things -- but at this point nothing can be taken for granted.



:thumbsup:

Man, you are really trying for 10,000 posts aren't you!

[GregWeld]

Man, you are really trying for 10,000 posts aren't you!



Hey -- the Hawks lost -- I've got little else to do now for a few weeks!! :lol:

[Sieg]

In this pic -- the distributor is 180* "out"....


Don't know when you took the picture etc --- but just saying....
Taken after I ran the valves. Check

The high idle can also be chased to a vacuum leak.... Have you checked for that? All the ports on the carb plugged -- PCV working correctly? Intake sealed?
Had the carb off, could be a base plate leak. No ports on the HP Ultra, PCV is new, intake freshly installed Edelbrock gaskets. Will double check all points. The idle does hang, could that cause the timing fluctuation?

Okay -- and I see another possible issue.... ASSUMING you're running an MSD box... since I see you've put on a GM weatherpak connector on the distributor.

The Black/Violet wire is negative (-) while the Black/Orange is postive (+). The wires that come out of the MSD are Violet(+) and Green (-). The 2-Pin connectors are designed to only connect one way so the wiring cannot be switched. If for some reason the connectors are changed, be sure the wires are connected with matching polarity. If they are not, the engine may or may not start, but if it does the timing will be inconsistent and it will run rough and not accelerate.
No box, that's the MSD dist. wire connector.

I know I'm digging at the little things -- but at this point nothing can be taken for granted.
:thumbsup:
After just firing it and having the same symptoms me too!! :yes:
Vacuum leak makes sense. Electrical short in tach, ignition wiring?

I guess the plus is it's not the valve train..........I think. :_paranoid

Man, you are really trying for 10,000 posts aren't you!Let him win, if he starts loosing and leaves this place wouldn't be nearly as much fun. :woot:

Hey -- the Hawks lost -- I've got little else to do now for a few weeks!! :lol:Hawk's? Are they similar to a Sea Buzzard?

------------------

I'm almost frustrated...............almost. Proof is in the fact that I haven't thrown anything across the shop yet. :rofl:

[GregWeld]

I'm almost frustrated...............almost. Proof is in the fact that I haven't thrown anything across the shop yet. :rofl:




We all want the AH HA moment and then everything is right with the world....


I've always USUALLY found that it's something SUPER SIMPLE that only makes sense after it's accidentally discovered. In the mean time --- SO F'N FRUSTRATING!:thumbsup: