Norwood

[Sieg]

Dakota, from what his mom says he didn't stop talking about it.
Hopefully I converted a young kid from video games to wanting to play with cars
GOOD FOR YOU!!

Respect your effort. :thumbsup:

Sieg and I are meeting at the Beaches Cruise in at PIR on Wednesday, July 3rd at 3:30 if that works.

If your interested... riding shotgun could be possible in early August. That would be fun... I'll find out more this week about the event :sieg:

If I can make it up there that would be good entertainment!

[Sieg]

While prepping the car for yesterday for today's trip to Portland I noticed a loose power steering bracket bolt. The car still has modified OEM brackets because the car had 461 fuelie heads with no accessory accommodation. When resetting tension and tightening things up I noticed how much flex was in the brackets and jimmy-rigged a quick "Springtuckey" fix to the system.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-gx5QhSs/0/L/IMAG3953-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4gpn4R8/0/L/IMAG3955-L.jpg

Negative style points but the flex is gone and the pulleys line up well. :D

Looking forward to meeting up with Dale at the Beaches Cruise In this afternoon. :thumbsup:

[DaleTx]

Looking forward to meeting up with Dale at the Beaches Cruise In this afternoon. :thumbsup:

Sounds good... I'll see you this afternoon. My Daughter and Dad coming along to.

Hopefully "Ol Gold" will be running tonight at the drags :thumbsup:

:cheers:

[intocarss]

You could of at least painted the pump! :disgusted: :smiley_smack:

[Sieg]

You could of at least painted the pump! :disgusted: :smiley_smack:
Why put lipstick on a pig? :sieg:

Norwood ain't the prettiest car.........but he runs!

[intocarss]

Why put lipstick on a pig? :sieg:

Norwood ain't the prettiest car.........but he runs!So you'd park next to mine?? :underchair:

[Sieg]

So you'd park next to mine?? :underchair:

Absolutely, besides blue and orange compliment each other well. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Don't ya just love owning a welder?

[Sieg]

Don't ya just love owning a welder?

Game Changer! :welder:

[Sieg]

Finally made it to the Beaches Cruise at PIR after being stuck for nearly an hour in traffic only 8 miles from the track! High 80* temps and no AC was making me a little cranky!
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-NpX5GFZ/1/XL/_MG_3878-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-F9PVbW8/0/XL/_MG_3919-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-S2TRRKM/0/XL/_MG_3881-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-QqBwLnS/0/XL/_MG_3885-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Khg6cCT/0/XL/_MG_3902-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hS5kNq3/0/XL/_MG_3910-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PzgGTgK/0/XL/_MG_3920-XL.jpg

Pretty good event even though car count was a little low due to the holiday week. I'd guess 500-600 cars 100+ bikes, and the drag racers.

The trip back on I-5 was going well even though traffic was heavy there were timely gaps allowing me capitalize on the T56 until just south of Albany where some IDIOT flipped oversized 5th wheel house on wheels and crew cab pickup.....another 20+ minutes of stop and go so people could rubber-neck the scene. :bur2: the remaining 30 miles to home after that when a little faster.

The car once again performed flawless. Highest temp was 202*. I dropped the primary mains from 70 to 68 which was an improvement. I also need to add clutch pedal pivot bushings to the vehicle inspection list as I expect my left leg to start cramping at so point today. :D

[protour73]

Great pics Sieg, thanks for posting!!

.....BTW...A/C is over rated!! (I don't have it either) :unibrow: :morepower

[Rick D]

Great to hear everything went well Sieg!

And you and Scott are both nuts, A/C is on my list of things todo!!!:headspin:

Sieg question for you, which trans kit did you go with? As you stated before it may be a more cost effective way to go?

[Sieg]

Great to hear everything went well Sieg!

And you and Scott are both nuts, A/C is on my list of things todo!!!:headspin:

Sieg question for you, which trans kit did you go with? As you stated before it may be a more cost effective way to go?
Real men don't need AC...........:sarcasm_smiley:

Rick I used the T56 Magnum close ratio with Quicktime bell, mechanical linkage from Hurst Drivelines. No complaints whatsoever. Close ratio is the key.

[DaleTx]

Finally made it to the Beaches Cruise at PIR after being stuck for nearly an hour in traffic only 8 miles from the track! High 80* temps and no AC was making me a little cranky!

The car once again performed flawless. Highest temp was 202*. I dropped the primary mains from 70 to 68 which was an improvement. I also need to add clutch pedal pivot bushings to the vehicle inspection list as I expect my left leg to start cramping at so point today. :D

Too bad about all the traffic problems in both directions... I'm glad that your car is working well and you had no issues... other than the heavy clutch and tired leg!

It was good to meet with you and see your car out there... your car looked great :thumbsup: I was extremely disappointed that I had car problems and couldn't drive my Camaro... and had to take the daily driver to the show. I was hoping for some side by side photos of the orange and blue Camaros' with the vinyl tops.

When I went to start the car in the morning it was misfiring, popping, and running extreme rich. The car has always started right up with no problems so I'm kind of baffled what is wrong. When I drove the car home and parked it after the track day it was running perfectly. Brian Nutter is coming out to the house on Friday to hook up his computer and diagnose the problem. For some reason I am reading low voltage, so it may be an alternator problem.

Anyway I'm glad you have your car all sorted out and running well... I guess I still have a few more things to work out.

[GregWeld]

#1 --- Next time -- leave earlier!


#2 --- I grew up working at that track.... all during high school...and that's how I ended up pit crewing for Ed McColloch and Art Whipple. My best buddy - Rusty Stevenson's older brother Roger worked for the NHRA.

[Track Junky]

Really nice photos Sieg. I think the biker gal took a liking to you.

[Sieg]

#1 --- Next time -- leave earlier!

:smiley_smack: I was stopped a mile before the Terwilliger exit at 3 pm!

[fleetus macmullitz]

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-F9PVbW8/0/XL/_MG_3919-XL.jpg



Didya git to talk to any 'ciminals'?

Nice pics of Ol Gold. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

More drag racing pics please :guns: Thanks Seig!! Hope you have a great time :thumbsup:

And yes AC is for whimps :stirthepot:

[Sieg]

Really nice photos Sieg. I think the biker gal took a liking to you.
She scared me! Not to mention she probably has me by 50 lbs. :sieg:

Didya git to talk to any 'ciminals'?

Nice pics of Ol Gold. :thumbsup:

None that I know of.

Ol Gold is driven by a guy (Paul) who was Dale's daughter's soccer coach.
Great guy as was his father who own's the show. To say that car is a dialed in turn key bracket racer is a gross understatement!

More drag racing pics please :guns: Thanks Seig!! Hope you have a great time :thumbsup:

And yes AC is for whimps :stirthepot:
Sorry Dawgy - One night only, didn't have enough time to sit a shoot the drags, but it would have been good fun though!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-JTjLNGF/0/XL/_MG_3898-XL.jpg

Uh - Hey buddy the light's yellow and you're RED!
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5LDxMVZ/0/XL/_MG_3907-XL.jpg

[intocarss]

Seig,, put the orange crate in the beams & let her eat!!!! Thanks for sharing

[Sieg]

Seig,, put the orange crate in the beams & let her eat!!!! Thanks for sharing

OK Big Daddy, if you say so......

http://tubulocity.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Schwinn-krate-ad-1968.jpg

[FETorino]

Seig,, put the orange crate in the beams & let her eat!!!! Thanks for sharing

Jerdog am I the only one who thinks it's strange there are no pictures of the Orange Camaro at the event? Maybe that's why she wasn't on the strip? :rolleyes:

[Sieg]

Jerdog am I the only one who thinks it's strange there are no pictures of the Orange Camaro at the event? Maybe that's why she wasn't on the strip? :rolleyes:
You Ferd guys have such a narrow focus.....look closely at the first picture I posted of the event:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-NpX5GFZ/1/XL/_MG_3878-XL.jpg


Bitterness is a disease cured by consuming large quantities of high octane fuel in internal combustion combustion engines.........oh wait.......nevermind.

:popcorn2:

[FETorino]

You Ferd guys have such a narrow focus.....look closely at the first picture I posted of the event:

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/78bdf721-2ff7-4c0a-8e04-0abcf16f105e_zpsd606a40e.jpg (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/78bdf721-2ff7-4c0a-8e04-0abcf16f105e_zpsd606a40e.jpg.html)


Bitterness is a disease cured by consuming large quantities of high octane fuel in internal combustion combustion engines.........oh wait.......nevermind.

:popcorn2:

I still don't see it.:sarcasm_smiley:

[intocarss]

OK Big Daddy, if you say so......

http://tubulocity.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Schwinn-krate-ad-1968.jpg

Now that's funny, I grew up going to OCIR and I had one of them bikes ;) If you notice that one has a knobby. Mine had a slick!!


I see it SEIG

[intocarss]

Jerdog am I the only one who thinks it's strange there are no pictures of the Orange Camaro at the event? Maybe that's why she wasn't on the strip? :rolleyes: It was in the VIP section :walkingdog:

[Sieg]

I still don't see it.:sarcasm_smiley:

Txs3diHeM8c

[fleetus macmullitz]

OK Big Daddy, if you say so......

http://tubulocity.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Schwinn-krate-ad-1968.jpg

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thanks for dippin' into the wayback machine files for one this Sieg. :cool:

[Sieg]

Now that's funny, I grew up going to OCIR and I had one of them bikes ;) If you notice that one has a knobby. Mine had a slick!!


I see it SEIG

Rich Ph***er :buttkick:

All I had was a crappy blue stocker. :lmao:

Funny because I figured the odds weren't too far fetched with OCIR and the bike when I found that pic. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

Rich Ph***er :buttkick:

All I had was a crappy blue stocker. :lmao:

Funny because I figured the odds weren't too far fetched with OCIR and the bike when I found that pic. :thumbsup:

So you planned that..yeah i had to wait a long time for that bike then i modified it and it went to **** LOLOL

I also noticed in your pics from the vintage road races the Maeco Motorsports boyz were there. I know them, there shop is 10 mins from me

[Sieg]

Did a little clean up after the two short road trips, which led to getting the buffer out and hitting the topside with some fine cut cleaner.

The Ol' boy ain't lookin' too bad for 24+ year old occasional driver paint!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-bx2zWgK/0/XL/_MG_3930-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-kp8jrNk/0/XL/_MG_3932-XL.jpg

[intocarss]

She looks good How was driving it after all the changes?? I take it this was the longest trip so far??

[fleetus macmullitz]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

http://www.domrep.ch/images/smilies/respekt.gif

[Sieg]

So you planned that..yeah i had to wait a long time for that bike then i modified it and it went to **** LOLOL

I also noticed in your pics from the vintage road races the Maeco Motorsports boyz were there. I know them, there shop is 10 mins from me

Planned? If you call seeing orange crate and having a :idea: and going to Google images a plan. :D

That Group 5 Historic class is good stuff, if you get a chance go! Strolling the pits is very interesting and entertaining. There's a lot of coin going into fielding those cars. :thumbsup:

[glassman]

that looks just right. Great stance, i love the black rims, orange paint...i've said this before , blah blah blah.
But with that said, still one of the best lookin cars on the planet, the 69 has to be in my top 5 fave's of all time, and yours is set up just right imo,...

[Sieg]

She looks good How was driving it after all the changes?? I take it this was the longest trip so far??Seating comfort and ergonomics are as good as any car I've ridden in. The taller gas pedal concerned me but it wasn't even an issue. The less than optimum front geometry with the quick ratio steering box is twitchie in the stud ruts we have around here. The close ratio T56 Mag is worth every last cent I paid for it! The 3:31 rear gears are a little tall, 3:50's or maaaybe 3:73's would be an improvement. Optimum cruise rpm for engine temp appears to be 2,200-2,400 rpm so that's 5th at 67-70 mph, 6th is a ticket in that rpm range (82+ mph) but a nice cruise option to have at times. The driveline angles are still not ideal, it probably needs another 2* up on the pinion to get it really smooth but it's not something most people would even notice.

No carburetion complaints though it's still probably a little rich. The carb came with 70 mains in the primary and secondary, I put 68's up front before this trip and it was a little crisper, don't have another set of 68's but I have 67's so I may throw them up front and 68's in the secondaries and see how it responds and how the plug bases read.....experimenting going any leaner than that without an AF gauge would be :sieg:

All said it's not too bad and much better than it was before the fire........the priority is geometry.....it can generate a lot of speed now and with the basically stock geometry that's not a good thing. I may research the viability of doing the Guldstrand mod to the subframe if it can be done through the wheel openings. I have a spare set of lower arms that I can reinforce in the balljoint and bushing areas and throw some firm bushings in there and install the Hotchkis sway bar I also have and call it good until I can find more :G-Dub:

[Sieg]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

http://www.domrep.ch/images/smilies/respekt.gif

that looks just right. Great stance, i love the black rims, orange paint...i've said this before , blah blah blah.
But with that said, still one of the best lookin cars on the planet, the 69 has to be in my top 5 fave's of all time, and yours is set up just right imo,...
Thanks Gentlemen. It's times like this that make hanging on to it for 24+ years worth it all. :thumbsup:

[MX145]

Sweet ride sieg!

[intocarss]

Planned? If you call seeing orange crate and having a :idea: and going to Google images a plan. :D

That Group 5 Historic class is good stuff, if you get a chance go! Strolling the pits is very interesting and entertaining. There's a lot of coin going into fielding those cars. :thumbsup:So it was spur of the moment and I've been to many vintage races over the years..... they do rock

Seating comfort and ergonomics are as good as any car I've ridden in. The taller gas pedal concerned me but it wasn't even an issue. The less than optimum front geometry with the quick ratio steering box is twitchie in the stud ruts we have around here. The close ratio T56 Mag is worth every last cent I paid for it! The 3:31 rear gears are a little tall, 3:50's or maaaybe 3:73's would be an improvement. Optimum cruise rpm for engine temp appears to be 2,200-2,400 rpm so that's 5th at 67-70 mph, 6th is a ticket in that rpm range (82+ mph) but a nice cruise option to have at times. The driveline angles are still not ideal, it probably needs another 2* up on the pinion to get it really smooth but it's not something most people would even notice.

No carburetion complaints though it's still probably a little rich. The carb came with 70 mains in the primary and secondary, I put 68's up front before this trip and it was a little crisper, don't have another set of 68's but I have 67's so I may throw them up front and 68's in the secondaries and see how it responds and how the plug bases read.....experimenting going any leaner than that without an AF gauge would be :sieg:

All said it's not too bad and much better than it was before the fire........the priority is geometry.....it can generate a lot of speed now and with the basically stock geometry that's not a good thing. I may research the viability of doing the Guldstrand mod to the subframe if it can be done through the wheel openings. I have a spare set of lower arms that I can reinforce in the balljoint and bushing areas and throw some firm bushings in there and install the Hotchkis sway bar I also have and call it good until I can find more :G-Dub:

You should of borrowed my AF gauge when i offered it to you OH well ;) I'm glad your car is moving forward and you're enjoying it!..You've put more miles on your Camaro this week then i have on mine in 2 years :bang: Keep us updated and next time TAKE REV WITH YOU, HE'D LIKE THAT !!

BTW Does your car have a 12 bolt or?? I have OEM GM 3.73 (8.5 rear) and want 3.31 or 3.42..maybe a trade??

[Sieg]

So it was spur of the moment and I've been to many vintage races over the years..... they do rock



You should of borrowed my AF gauge when i offered it to you OH well ;) I'm glad your car is moving forward and you're enjoying it!..You've put more miles on your Camaro this week then i have on mine in 2 years :bang: Keep us updated and next time TAKE REV WITH YOU, HE'D LIKE THAT !!

BTW Does your car have a 12 bolt or?? I have OEM GM 3.73 (8.5 rear) and want 3.31 or 3.42..maybe a trade??

But I really didn't need your AF gauge when you had it........:shakehead:

FWIW - I think I'm approaching 10K miles now in 24 years.

Rev and Tucker would have heat issues riding in that car right now. :drool: Talk about spoiled.....they go outside for 10 minutes then head back into the AC house and Rev usually plants himself in front of a vent. :D

My car has the OEM 12 bolt, I believe it's 8.875"? I'm leaning to 3:55, but still need to recheck the 5th and 6th gear ratios for my optimum rpm's. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

So you're saying you're tougher then your dogs :RunninDog:

[Sieg]

If at first you don't succeed..............run the valves again!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-pVwSM9C/0/XL/_MG_3953-XL.jpg

Having a stainless flex-fan makes turning the crank somewhat exciting......no blood! :sieg:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CGz4Rp4/0/XL/_MG_3957-XL.jpg

Hydraulic cam, Intake closing, exhaust opening, zero lash and half turn. Finally that annoying little tick-tick is history. I tried to cheat doing it right, by using a remote start switch vs. a breaker bar on the crank.........when in reality the right way doesn't take that much longer.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Congrats Sieg.


:hello:

[DaleTx]

I also need to add clutch pedal pivot bushings to the vehicle inspection list as I expect my left leg to start cramping at so point today. :D

That's great when you get to the point on a build when you are done with all the hard work, and your waxing the car and doing some fine tuning. Glad to hear you got rid of the valve ticking :thumbsup:

Before I put the hydraulic clutch in my car, I had upgraded all of the pivot points on my mechanical clutch. I upgraded the stock shaft and bushing set up with spherical rod end bearings per an article from the Pozzi Gen 1 website. The spherical bearings reduce the friction and take out some of the play in the joints. The set up worked good for the mechanical clutch set up.

You are welcome to have the parts I made if you can use them. Here is a pic of the parts

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/july62013008_zpsb73b31bc.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/july62013008_zpsb73b31bc.jpg.html)

[intocarss]

That's great when you get to the point on a build when you are done with all the hard work, and your waxing the car and doing some fine tuning. Glad to hear you got rid of the valve ticking :thumbsup:

Before I put the hydraulic clutch in my car, I had upgraded all of the pivot points on my mechanical clutch. I upgraded the stock shaft and bushing set up with spherical rod end bearings per an article from the Pozzi Gen 1 website. The spherical bearings reduce the friction and take out some of the play in the joints. The set up worked good for the mechanical clutch set up.

You are welcome to have the parts I made if you can use them. Here is a pic of the parts



IF SEIG DON'T WANT THEM, I'LL TAKE THEM. If that's ok?

[Sieg]

That's great when you get to the point on a build when you are done with all the hard work, and your waxing the car and doing some fine tuning. Glad to hear you got rid of the valve ticking :thumbsup:

Before I put the hydraulic clutch in my car, I had upgraded all of the pivot points on my mechanical clutch. I upgraded the stock shaft and bushing set up with spherical rod end bearings per an article from the Pozzi Gen 1 website. The spherical bearings reduce the friction and take out some of the play in the joints. The set up worked good for the mechanical clutch set up.

You are welcome to have the parts I made if you can use them. Here is a pic of the parts

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/july62013008_zpsb73b31bc.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/july62013008_zpsb73b31bc.jpg.html)
:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

Awesome Dale, I can check that off my to build bucket list! :thumbsup:

Sorry J-Dawgy

[intocarss]

:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

Awesome Dale, I can check that off my to build bucket list! :thumbsup:

Sorry J-Dawgy No worries Sieggy,, and why don't you just tattoo the valve adjusment directions onto your arm :lostmarbles:

[Sieg]

No worries Sieggy,, and why don't you just tattoo the valve adjusment directions onto your arm :lostmarbles:
That piece of note tape saved me a could of times due to kid and dog distractions. Silver dots indicated adjusted. All my tat's are from scalpels and sutures. :D

[intocarss]

That piece of note tape saved me a could of times due to kid and dog distractions. Silver dots indicated adjusted. All my tat's are from scalpels and sutures. :D

Lock the door to the garage next time!! Ya damn :newbie: :gitrdun:

[protour73]

If at first you don't succeed..............run the valves again!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-pVwSM9C/0/XL/_MG_3953-XL.jpg

Having a stainless flex-fan makes turning the crank somewhat exciting......no blood! :sieg:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CGz4Rp4/0/XL/_MG_3957-XL.jpg

Hydraulic cam, Intake closing, exhaust opening, zero lash and half turn. Finally that annoying little tick-tick is history. I tried to cheat doing it right, by using a remote start switch vs. a breaker bar on the crank.........when in reality the right way doesn't take that much longer.

Sieg, I need to do this, I have been needlessly putting it off!!! What is the method, or sequence that you used?

That sperical rod end clutch linkage that Dale posted is the cat's ass for a mechanical clutch. Made a huge difference on my car, I got mine from Speed Direct http://cmc.speeddirect.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=7005%2D125&eq=&Tp=

:thankyou:

[Sieg]

Sieg, I need to do this, I have been needlessly putting it off!!! What is the method, or sequence that you used?

That spherical rod end clutch linkage that Dale posted is the cat's ass for a mechanical clutch. Made a huge difference on my car, I got mine from Speed Direct http://cmc.speeddirect.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=7005%2D125&eq=&Tp=

:thankyou:
The instructions I used was "Hydraulic Lifter Camshafts"
http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/comp-cams-how-valve-lash-adjustment-2076.html

I just rotated the motor with a breaker bar and watched the rocker movement and adjusted. Intake closing is easy to spot, catching the exhaust just opening requires a little patience since when you're holding the socket on the crank/balancer bolt with one hand and levering the bar with the other your head is moving a bit thus catching the initial rocker movement can be tricky. It doesn't help matters having your arm pressed against those stainless fan blade either. :D

No doubt the heimed rods will be an improvement. I'm sure it's one of those "once you've used it you'll never go back" situations. Dale is truly one of the nicer guys I've met. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

You don't have to catch the rocker at precisely the moment it moves.... what you're looking for is the movement -- that is the signal that the opposite valve (the one you want to adjust) being on the base. It's on the base for several degrees (rotation of the crank) since the cam rotates at half the amount the crank does. The real key is to not just keep cranking. But it's not like you have to catch the rocker movement in the first .005" of an inch.

[Sieg]

You don't have to catch the rocker at precisely the moment it moves.... what you're looking for is the movement -- that is the signal that the opposite valve (the one you want to adjust) being on the base. It's on the base for several degrees (rotation of the crank) since the cam rotates at half the amount the crank does. The real key is to not just keep cranking. But it's not like you have to catch the rocker movement in the first .005" of an inch.
According to my dial indicator I was catching the exhaust opening at .015" and the intake .020" past max lift.

Juuuust kidding. :D

I checked the amount of turn on all rockers when backing off to zero lash and most of the valves were within 1/16-1/8 of a turn of the 1/2 turn adjustment I was trying to obtain, two were about a 1/3 of a turn loose. When trying to bump the motor with a remote starter switch I obviously missed the base circle on those two. If the car had an electric fan, cranking the motor by hand would be simple, with the fan and shroud in the way it was a little tight but the time I would have gained adjusting would have been lost loosening the alternator and removing the fan and shroud. Thus I attempted it twice with the remote and twice running. The problem with running is the gear drive and exhaust make it very hard to hear zero lash clatter.

[intocarss]

According to my dial indicator I was catching the exhaust opening at .015" and the intake .020" past max lift.

Juuuust kidding. :D

If the car had an electric fan, cranking the motor by hand would be simple, with the fan and shroud in the way it was a little tight but the time I would have gained adjusting would have been lost loosening the alternator and removing the fan and shroud. Thus I attempted it twice with the remote and twice running. The problem with running is the gear drive and exhaust make it very hard to hear zero lash clatter.

SIEG, I can teach you tricks on how to use a starter button or Ign key and you'll be able to tap that eng around in 1/8-7/16" increments. I can also hear valve noise over other engine noises even with your gang running around me :woot:

SO when you flying me up?? It should only take about a month or so depending on if you're a fast learner or not.... :idea: I can sleep with Rev and Tucker, BUT I only eat human food & use a real shower!! LETS :gitrdun:


HERE'S ME TEACHING HIGH SCHOOL KIDS HOW TO CHECK/ADJ VALVES AT 7AM RACE DAY

[Sieg]

SIEG, I can teach you tricks on how to use a starter button or Ign key and you'll be able to tap that eng around in 1/8-7/16" increments. I can also hear valve noise over other engine noises even with your gang running around me :woot:
My mistake with the starter button was not removing the plugs....:sieg:
(lazy - four require a box wrench under the header)

SO when you flying me up?? It should only take about a month or so depending on if you're a fast learner or not.... :idea:
Flying :rofl: What part of Greyhound ticket don't you understand? :unibrow:
Fast learner..............:sieg: Nuff said.

I can sleep with Rev and Tucker, BUT I only eat human food & use a real shower!! LETS :gitrdun:
Rev you can handle, Tucker can be a little intimidating if he's "in the mood."
Don't worry Dawgs eat well in Siegtuckey.
Shower? We just take a dip in the river on the 6 a.m. walk and call it good. Water temp is up to almost 60* now!

[intocarss]

Greyhound, JerDog :walkingdog: ? I'm A Dog Too And I Can Swim:drowninga: , COME ON REV!! So This All Sounds Great!! Btw I Do It With The Plugs In, SO IF TUCKER IS IN THE MOOD ;) I can also bring my scooter on the bus then we can take it to the track for a lil match racn :stirthepot: !!!

[Sieg]

Since there has been a friendly little trash talking regarding my carb tuning skills........I recorded this on the way to practice this morning. It's boring but when scrutinized gives a little insight to the archaic carb's seat-of-the-pants tune. :sieg:

Ev0e8vJ7Ut4

It's been almost a year (Aug 7th) since the fire that took it out of commission for a couple months and about $10K worth of replacements and mods. The were many hours and challenges, the self-induced being the worst of the challenges, but it's finally back to the reliable state it was before the fire. IT's times like this that make all the hours and dollars worthwhile. Open the garage, warm it up and drive it, park it and know it will fire up in the morning with no leaks or issues. :knokwood:

[Sieg]

Nothing exciting, just a video I shot to know what the exhaust note sounded like. The sound definitely changed after I replaced the tailpipes. The camera had audio issues which were minimized with a new firmware release but there is still a little "clicking" present.

kuUy2uGi-yk

[fleetus macmullitz]

Nothing exciting, just a video I shot to know what the exhaust note sounded like. The sound definitely changed after I replaced the tailpipes. The camera had audio issues which were minimized with a new firmware release but there is still a little "clicking" present.

kuUy2uGi-yk

Wow very healthy sounding. :cool:

Sieg...FTW.

Again.

:D

[Sieg]

:ups:

Hurst sent the new T56 shifter upgraded with an internal seal! This seal looks nearly identical to the factory Tremec seal, my guess is with the shifter mounted in the forward position there will be no seepage issues.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/Hurst-Blackjack-Shifter/i-wx7GZJm/1/L/_MG_5832-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/Hurst-Blackjack-Shifter/i-f2kHXph/1/XL/_MG_5833-XL.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/Hurst-Blackjack-Shifter/i-XfNN9TC/0/XL/_MG_5836-XL.jpg

[Vince@Meanstreets]

hey scott, what is the part number on that bad boy?

[intocarss]

Thats looks to pretty to install

[Flash68]

Nice looking piece. Hopefully it solves the issues you guys have been dealing with.

[Sieg]

hey scott, what is the part number on that bad boy?
Shifter = Magnum Blackjack

Offset for shift lever = MAGF 68-69 STUB

Contact Jim for details and availability.

[Sieg]

Thats looks to pretty to install
Sexy isn't it! :unibrow:

Nice looking piece. Hopefully it solves the issues you guys have been dealing with.
I'm 99.8% positive. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Instead of installing the new shifter today I headed 100 miles north to met Dale and buy him lunch for picking up my Craig's List score that he compromised his personal safety to handle the transaction for me with the seller in his area. This meeting worked out well as we both needed an excuse to just go out and drive and I wanted to see Dale's car and work in person.........I was very impressed! :bow: His car is a very good looking sleeper and built to drive hard.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WtLnfVw/1/XL/i-WtLnfVw-XL.jpg

The Craig's List score:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-v6k3GdX/0/L/i-v6k3GdX-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-BPnLHtw/0/L/i-BPnLHtw-L.jpg

Thanks to Brett at Fab53........I also ordered one of these in 8" on Friday:

http://www.woodwardfab.com/SPHS-SET-web.jpg

Great day, great lunch company, and two fun 100 mile sprints on the interstate. Old Norwood even managed 17.2 mpg. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[FETorino]

That looks like a nice score. :thumbsup: Better than that flight upgrade you got the other day.:underchair:

:cheers:

[GregWeld]

Bestest (being funny) tool that gets used A LOT is my #2 Beverly Shear....


So let me hazard a guess here.... there's a roll bar in your future?

[Sieg]

Bestest (being funny) tool that gets used A LOT is my #2 Beverly Shear....

So let me hazard a guess here.... there's a roll bar in your future?
......or a stout walker, can't start retirement planning too early right? :D

Need to acquire a tubing bender before a roll bar is an option. After seeing Dale's car yesterday feelings of bar desire have occurred among numerous other manly want emotions......

Beverly Shear or would this be bestest?

http://www.woodwardfab.com/images/THROATLESS%20ROTARY%20SHEAR.jpg

[GregWeld]

I don't have any experience with the rotary style shear.... but my guess is it would work just fantastic. It's hard to imagine doing any sheet metal work without my Beverly shear. And the Woodward tool would be the same if that's what a guy had.

I'm pinging the city, and Idaho power - to see if I can't get 3 phase in the new shed.... and then we'll see if I can't assuage some of those manly dreams!

[intocarss]

......or a stout walker, can't start retirement planning too early right? :D

Need to acquire a tubing bender before a roll bar is an option. After seeing Dale's car yesterday feelings of bar desire have occurred among numerous other manly want emotions......

Beverly Shear or would this be bestest?

http://www.woodwardfab.com/images/THROATLESS%20ROTARY%20SHEAR.jpg I NEED A WALKER TOO! OH WAIT I HAVE A TUBING BENDER ;)

[Sieg]

I NEED A WALKER TOO! OH WAIT I HAVE A TUBING BENDER ;)Trade you some Dawg Biscuits for that bender. :rules:

[DaleTx]

Instead of installing the new shifter today I headed 100 miles north to met Dale and buy him lunch for picking up my Craig's List score that he compromised his personal safety to handle the transaction for me with the seller in his area.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WtLnfVw/1/XL/i-WtLnfVw-XL.jpg

The Craig's List score:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-v6k3GdX/0/L/i-v6k3GdX-L.jpg

Great day, great lunch company, and two fun 100 mile sprints on the interstate. Old Norwood even managed 17.2 mpg. :thumbsup:

Scott, I was happy to help you out. When I drove into the neighborhood to pick up the notcher for you I was a bit nervous... and left my wallet in the truck, Lol. Anyway... the notcher looks like a good one, I'm sure you'll get good use out of it. Now that you have a tig welder and a notcher I might pay you a visit when I'm ready to upgrade my 4-pt roll bar.

During lunch we were talking about rear gear ratio's... if you want to go from 3:31 rear gears to 3:55's let me know... I have a brand new set of 3:55's that you can have if you want to try them. I bought the 3:55's and then decided to go lower and went to 3:73's. The 3:55 gear set only has a couple hundred miles.

Your car looks great... thanks again for lunch :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Since the weather's going south around here......7.08" of rain in Sept. vs. a 1.29" average........I decide to remove the back seats and create a seatless option as future plans don't include hauling 4 passengers.

Everything is sitting loose now so any suggestions are appreciated.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7bm4hst/0/XL/i-7bm4hst-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RLpJjRK/0/XL/i-RLpJjRK-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dRw5p8d/0/XL/i-dRw5p8d-XL.jpg

[Vince@Meanstreets]

take that fiber panel out and transfer it to a sheet of 14g AL. dzus or screw lock fasten to existing trunk reinforcment.

you can kinda make it out in this picture of gaes camaro. Note, on his only the center section is removable.

[intocarss]

Back seat's out....Mini Tubs!!!!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

or a fold down panel so you can access the truck to store your ski's or golf clubs.

[Sieg]

Back seat's out....Mini Tubs!!!!
Drag racers..........:rolleyes:

Budget Dawgy Budget :D

I'd love to but tubs lead to numerous other "wants" and I certainly don't need anymore of those right now! :lol:

[DaleTx]

At SEMA last year I had a chance to see Mark Stielow's "Mayhem" Camaro. He did something that I thought was very cool. There was no back seat in the car... and if I remember right he added a panel that went over the top of the trans tunnel all the way across. This created some enclosed space that he utilized for storage.

We were talking about transmission gear ratios and he went back there to retrieve some information. There were hatch doors over the openings with latches if I recall. I thought it was a great idea.

[intocarss]

Drag racers..........:rolleyes:

Budget Dawgy Budget :D

I'd love to but tubs lead to numerous other "wants" and I certainly don't need anymore of those right now! :lol: I hear ya. How about a nice sitting area for Tucker and Rev!! I do like the open hatch ideas!!

[Sieg]

or a fold down panel so you can access the truck to store your long guns.
Fixed it for ya. :unibrow:

What were those seats out of, GTO?

I like the removable center panel idea, just not certain on what material. Acoustically that 1/8" plywood panel works as it also has a lightweight needle punch carpet on the backside. Firewall wise it's not exactly the ticket. Boeing has a honeycomb structural panel with aluminum bonded on both sides that's cool, but they closed their Kent, WA surplus store down.

I may fir the panel out from the package tray and bring the bottom forward to make a clean seam at the seat pocket panels........need to sit in the car and do some more :headscratch:

[GregWeld]

Everything is sitting loose now so any suggestions are welcome




Scrap it! I know where you can find a nice Torino capable of holding Tucker and Rev and we could even get Stella and the girls in there too!. Cheap!

[Sieg]

At SEMA last year I had a chance to see Mark Stielow's "Mayhem" Camaro. He did something that I thought was very cool. There was no back seat in the car... and if I remember right he added a panel that went over the top of the trans tunnel all the way across. This created some enclosed space that he utilized for storage.

We were talking about transmission gear ratios and he went back there to retrieve some information. There were hatch doors over the openings with latches if I recall. I thought it was a great idea.

Yes, that system is very nice...........little too tall to take Tucker cruising though. :RunninDog:

OMG he'd take a dog in his car! Yup, two favorite pastimes are better than one. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Scrap it! I know where you can find a nice Torino capable of holding Tucker and Rev and we could even get Stella and the girls in there too!. Cheap!
Scrap it! That's some of the finest OSB know to man. I asked Tucker about cruising in a Torino and he said "everyone should two Torino's.......one to poop on and another to cover it up with." :underchair:

Note: The two car line was first used on me and my come-a-dozen Camaro

[FETorino]

Scrap it! I know where you can find a nice Torino capable of holding Tucker and Rev and we could even get Stella and the girls in there too!. Cheap!

Where did you see the Torino for sale? I once heard if I have one I need a second one.:guns:

So Sieg you bought all those metal working tools and have spent all this time on welding and you are using OSB for your rear seat floor:headscratch:

:cheers:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

reverting to primal thoughts. lol

[intocarss]

Where did you see the Torino for sale? I once heard if I have one I need a second one.:guns:

So Sieg you bought all those metal working tools and have spent all this time on welding and you are using OSB for your rear seat floor:headscratch:

:cheers:

Those are templates :twak:

[Sieg]

Where did you see the Torino for sale? I once heard if I have one I need a second one.:guns:

So Sieg you bought all those metal working tools and have spent all this time on welding and you are using OSB for your rear seat floor:headscratch:

:cheers:

In your case is the second car a "parts car" or "monumental yard art" or ???

OSB has it's place! Recently I've seen some pretty trick structural joists in commercial applications.......it is also relatively lightweight compared to plywood, though I digress. When properly supported it is a suitable surface to adhere cheap carpet to and test my sophisticated design temporarily then use for future templates. Most importantly in my case..........it was cheap and I had it in stock! After all this is just a dime-a-dozen Chebby not a state-of-the-art Ferd. http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/Rogue.gif

[Roberts68]

:poke: Any pro-gress yet there Mr. Pro-Tinkerer?

Happy New Year Norwood:weld: :superhack: :weld: :flashie:

:popcorn2:

[GregWeld]

I heard he's trying to shape some OSB mini tubs -- and doing port and mill work on some MDF heads.....

[Sieg]

:poke: Any pro-gress yet there Mr. Pro-Tinkerer?

Happy New Year Norwood:weld: :superhack: :weld: :flashie:

:popcorn2:
Norwood is hibernating the New Year will bring new tie rod ends, ball joints, and front suspension geometry alterations. Possibly control arm bushings front spring rate change and Hotchkis front bar depending on stock arm geometry calculations and ride height. Pro low budget Tinkerer. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Norwood is hibernating the New Year will bring new tie rod ends, ball joints, and front suspension geometry alterations. Possibly control arm bushings front spring rate change and Hotchkis front bar depending on stock arm geometry calculations and ride height. Pro low budget Tinkerer. :thumbsup:





R I G H T....... This one started out as just a simple "bushing" replacement.... HA! They ALWAYS start out with just a simple little "upgrade". :D







http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Rudys%20Camaro/file-31.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Rudys%20Camaro/file-31.jpg.html)

[Sieg]

I heard he's trying to shape some OSB mini tubs -- and doing port and mill work on some MDF heads.....
Don't tell me you hit your head skiing this morning too. :sieg:

I busy building front door art to protect my door front a meat-hooked dog that doesn't bark to come in he gives the door one paw swipe...........you've seen his digging ability and it's not a good when applied to nice wooden doors. :D

The frame is 46 x 26 and my welding table 22 x 36........let's just say it's a slight PITA.

I see a 30 x 48 x 3/8 table in my future. :sieg:

[Sieg]

R I G H T....... This one started out as just a simple "bushing" replacement.... HA! They ALWAYS start out with just a simple little "upgrade". :D

Well........my brother in law isn't capable of doing what I want. :action-smiley-027: :twak: :D

[GregWeld]

Don't tell me you hit your head skiing this morning too. :sieg:

I busy building front door art to protect my door front a meat-hooked dog that doesn't bark to come in he gives the door one paw swipe...........you've seen his digging ability and it's not a good when applied to nice wooden doors. :D

The frame is 46 x 26 and my welding table 22 x 36........let's just say it's a slight PITA.

I see a 30 x 48 x 3/8 table in my future. :sieg:



The beauty of making first tracks (I was on the second chair load this AM) -- and having a seasons pass... It's XMAS week --- the thundering herds are here - on my third run - I took one look at the line at Challenger -- and took the bus home.

[Sieg]

I took one look at the line at Challenger -- and took the bus home.There goes my thread and your post count. :slingshot:

[intocarss]

Don't tell me you hit your head skiing this morning too. :sieg:

I busy building front door art to protect my door front a meat-hooked dog that doesn't bark to come in he gives the door one paw swipe...........you've seen his digging ability and it's not a good when applied to nice wooden doors. :D

The frame is 46 x 26 and my welding table 22 x 36........let's just say it's a slight PITA.

I see a 30 x 48 x 3/8 table in my future. :sieg:Most just give their kids a key to the door :rolleyes:

[Sieg]

The frame is 46 x 26 and my welding table 22 x 36........let's just say it's a slight PITA.

I see a 30 x 48 x 3/8 table in my future. :sieg:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-KwTW8Pc/1/L/i-KwTW8Pc-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-BkF7khn/1/L/i-BkF7khn-L.jpg

On a side note if a veteran TIG welder out there needs a tungsten prep assistant I passed my apprenticeship today. :bur2:

[GregWeld]

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-KwTW8Pc/1/L/i-KwTW8Pc-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-BkF7khn/1/L/i-BkF7khn-L.jpg

On a side note if a veteran TIG welder out there needs a tungsten prep assistant I passed my apprenticeship today. :bur2:



Okay -- I don't mean to bust your you know what here on a public forum ---- but dude! Get rid of that big ass TIG torch and heavy unyielding hose.... and get a torch that isn't fighting you all day!



This is just ONE style --- but trust me when I tell ya - the right size torch -- and a nice flexible gas cooled hose will make you a serious welder!!


qZuwJKRi-PU

[Sieg]

The hose is a flexi-flyer........:mock:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-f6d7fLp/0/XL/i-f6d7fLp-XL.jpg

17 Series air-cooled TIG Torch. Fits any TIG welder that takes the 17 Series torch including the HTP Invertig 201, Invertig 221, Invertig 160DC.

Nothing makes TIG welding easier than a high quality TIG torch with a nice flexible cable – that’s why HTP offers replacement TIG welding torches for just about all brands of TIG welders – so you can get better results easier. All HTP air-cooled TIG torches feature one piece cable designs, constructed from an extremely flexible, silicon rubber hose with a braided nylon weave overlay. These cables even stay flexible in cold weather. This design puts much less strain on your wrist, and makes the torch feel lighter.

Torch isn't huge and works well for my big hands, but I wouldn't mind a swivel head.

http://www.usaweld.com/v/vspfiles/photos/SH-9-12-1.jpg

[GregWeld]

AH!! GOOD! It looked like a garden hose in the pics! A flexible hose is really critical IMHO.... almost as important as being able to see!


My TIG torches have flex heads -- not swivel heads -- but you can bend the neck.


I personally like to use as small of a torch as possible --- both MIG and TIG.

[GregWeld]

Here's a good reference....



http://www.ckworldwide.com/standard.htm

[Sieg]

Here's a good reference....

http://www.ckworldwide.com/standard.htm
CK-17 is the torch that came with the HTP Invertig.

[GregWeld]

Yeah - that's standard --- You'd LOVE a CK9 (two series) with the flex head!

Just do it!

[Sieg]

Retractable seat belt installation to be continued....due to server issues.

[Sieg]

Headlight & grille screen installation........to be continued

[Sieg]

Exhaust mods to be continued...........

[Sieg]

Power steering cooler installation.........to be continued

[Sieg]

I finally got around to tearing into the rear end to upgrade my axle's 7/16" wheel studs to match the 1/2" ARP front studs. Embarrassingly for as long as I've been a Lat-G member I thought I had installed C-clip eliminators years ago and thus had postponed installing rear disc brakes! Guess that's what happens when you have a car 24+ years and get into your mid 50's..........:sieg:

Anyway after contacting Moser and verifying I could simply tap the existing 7/16" press in stud holes since they are drilled the same size that's required for a 1/2-20 tap I tore into it today so when the ARP studs arrive in a day or two I'll be ready to button it back up.

First thing was to insure the tap would be square so I made a quick jig from scrap laying around.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fHPTBbc/0/XL/i-fHPTBbc-XL.jpg

The other concern was being able to get the rear cover off and be able to properly seal it during the reinstall due to clearance with the Flowmaster transverse muffler. Tight but doable.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-d5x5XvG/0/XL/i-d5x5XvG-XL.jpg

The other motivation is I wasn't positive of the rear end ratio as the last time the cover was off was in '92.........I think. 14/44/3.38 confirmed.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Jnc2QZx/1/XL/i-Jnc2QZx-XL.jpg

Side shots with freshly threaded axles waiting for studs.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-w7Kjwzs/0/XL/i-w7Kjwzs-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-J7Ww8q4/0/XL/i-J7Ww8q4-XL.jpg

[rickpaw]

Keep us posted on your wheel stud install Sieg. I'm about to upgrade front brakes with 1/2 ARP studs, and have the same 7/16" studs out back.

[Sieg]

Keep us posted on your wheel stud install Sieg. I'm about to upgrade front brakes with 1/2 ARP studs, and have the same 7/16" studs out back.

Tu - With my Moser axles it was simple. The press in studs popped out easily, tapping was tedious but good exercise, all that's left is to screw in the studs and reinstall the axles. I'd assume stock axles would be similar other than slightly stubborn studs due to rust.

[rickpaw]

Tu - With my Moser axles it was simple. The press in studs popped out easily, tapping was tedious but good exercise, all that's left is to screw in the studs and reinstall the axles. I'd assume stock axles would be similar other than slightly stubborn studs due to rust.

I had a shop pressed in new 7/16" stud when I converted the rearend to disc brake, so it should not be too hard to tap them out. I'm a bit more worry about tapping the holes, as my hands are not as steady as they used to be.

Tu

[Sieg]

I had a shop pressed in new 7/16" stud when I converted the rearend to disc brake, so it should not be too hard to tap them out. I'm a bit more worry about tapping the holes, as my hands are not as steady as they used to be.

Tu
If you can't make a tap guide like I did get one something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Hand-Tap-Guide-Standard-V-Tap/dp/B000ZN30U4

I also used a longer T-bar in the tap holder which helped a lot.

[intocarss]

Nice job. I've never heard of or didn't think they had a "3.38" GM 12 bolt gear ratio, Is It an after market gear??

[Sieg]

Nice job. I've never heard of or didn't think they had a "3.38" GM 12 bolt gear ratio, Is It an after market gear??

Well my tooth count was 44 x 13 Ring divided pinion equaled 3.38. However those are big numbers for me to count :sieg: Could be 43/13 3:30's, either way they're not 3:55's or 3:73's which I'd consider optimum. 3:73 concern me due to noise.......seems that ratio just isn't quite.

[intocarss]

Well my tooth count was 44 x 13 Ring divided pinion equaled 3.38. However those are big numbers for me to count :sieg: Could be 43/13 3:30's, either way they're not 3:55's or 3:73's which I'd consider optimum. 3:73 concern me due to noise.......seems that ratio just isn't quite.

How about 3.42 41x12 ;)

[Sieg]

Sieg's Stud Service........

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-mCkVZB4/0/XL/i-mCkVZB4-XL.jpg

Has a nice ring to it. :D

[GregWeld]

I called -- Amy is not real keen on the new business name.




Don't forget the locktite.




Looks good!

[Sieg]

Don't forget the locktite.
One drop of Red and seated with 3/8" butterfly impact which hits 60-70 ft. lbs. Wheels are torqued at 75 lbs. We shall see.

[Sieg]

How about 3.42 41x12 ;)

Axle code is BS 0107G1
Manufactured on Jan 7th, by Detroit Gear & Axle, shift 1.

BS = 3:31 ratio, so I missed the ring gear by 1, 43/13= 3.3076. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

Axle code is BS 0107G1
Manufactured on Jan 7th, by Detroit Gear & Axle, shift 1.

BS = 3:31 ratio, so I missed the ring gear by 1, 43/13= 3.3076. :thumbsup: And I had totaly forgot about the 3.31 gear :bang:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Sieg's Stud Service........



Has a nice ring to it. :D
in the city..a big hit

[Vince@Meanstreets]

And I had totaly forgot about the 3.31 gear :bang:

of course you did, you silly straight liner

[intocarss]

of course you did, you silly straight liner

I KNOW HUH!

[Ron Sutton]

I dunno Greg ... I sorta like the new biz name. :lol:

[GregWeld]

I dunno Greg ... I sorta like the new biz name. :lol:




Good business plan - but he may come up a bit "short".....

[Sieg]

Good business plan - but he may come up a bit "short".....

You're certainly qualified to make that statement. :captain1:

[Sieg]

Ready to roll!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7Wdrvzg/0/XL/i-7Wdrvzg-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5wFJh2Q/0/XL/i-5wFJh2Q-XL.jpg

My USCA non-compliant unsafe tires :(

[Flash68]

Looks great Scotty.

So what is the date on those tires?

[Sieg]

Looks great Scotty.

So what is the date on those tires?
They're about 3.5 years old. Understand the intent of the rule, but regarding safety with a 46 year old car tires are the last of my worries. My rear drums qualify and I'm more concerned about losing brakes on the road course than having a tire issue.

Tough justify $500 for the entry and $1300 for tires just to run an OK track. I'd spend it on track days and expenses at Oregon Raceway Park, The Ridge, or T-hill first.

I don't agree with being able to circumvent the 'safety' regulation by using a lower quality date code conforming tire.

[96z28ss]

They're about 3.5 years old. Understand the intent of the rule, but regarding safety with a 46 year old car tires are the last of my worries. My rear drums qualify and I'm more concerned about losing brakes on the road course than having a tire issue.

Tough justify $500 for the entry and $1300 for tires just to run an OK track. I'd spend it on track days and expenses at Oregon Raceway Park, The Ridge, or T-hill first.

I don't agree with being able to circumvent the 'safety' regulation by using a lower quality date code conforming tire.

$1300 for tires? what tires you looking at?

[Sieg]

$1300 for tires? what tires you looking at?

That's for new NT05's

[rickpaw]

That's for new NT05's

Local Discount Tire (America's Tire in west coast) quoted me a hair above $800 for 4 NT05's (245/40/18 & 275/35/18) mounted/balanced. Just have to bring my new wheels down to them.

[Ron in SoCal]

I think I paid $1150 for a set of the big'uns on the web.

[GregWeld]

When you drive the Lotus on the Hoosiers - and finally feel brakes that stop better than you wanted them to -- and realize a 1.8 liter Toyota motor will smoke your SBC by margins of MULTIPLE SECONDS -- on a real track -- you won't want to bother trying to make your street car into a race car. LOL

[fleetus macmullitz]

When you drive the Lotus on the Hoosiers - and finally feel brakes that stop better than you wanted them to -- and realize a 1.8 liter Toyota motor will smoke your SBC by margins of MULTIPLE SECONDS -- on a real track -- you won't want to bother trying to make your street car into a race car. LOL

Then why all we all here?


:confused59:


lol

[Sieg]

Local Discount Tire (America's Tire in west coast) quoted me a hair above $800 for 4 NT05's (245/40/18 & 275/35/18) mounted/balanced. Just have to bring my new wheels down to them.

Couldn't get an online quote from their website.

I think I paid $1150 for a set of the big'uns on the web.

I used Summit for pricing. When I do replace I'll most likely end up with a run flat style but that's most likely a couple years away.

When you drive the Lotus on the Hoosiers - and finally feel brakes that stop better than you wanted them to -- and realize a 1.8 liter Toyota motor will smoke your SBC by margins of MULTIPLE SECONDS -- on a real track -- you won't want to bother trying to make your street car into a race car. LOL

Oh I know! I have a bike in the garage that my Camaro can't even sniff, especially in the adrenaline category. The USCA deal is about being around the people and watching the 'players' cars run for me. :D

That being said.........once you drive my Camaro you'll sell the Mustang.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[65_LS1_T56]

Couldn't get an online quote from their website.


Scott, I just got 2-265's and 2-295's NT05's delivered (free shipping) for $903. Use discount tire direct for pricing: http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/home.do?

[Ron in SoCal]

Scott, I just got 2-265's and 2-295's NT05's delivered (free shipping) for $903. Use discount tire direct for pricing: http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/home.do?

x2 Aaron

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Those are some nice looking nuts to match your studs.

[Flash68]

$1300 for tires? what tires you looking at?

That's for new NT05's

Sieg, you don't price shop online much do ya. :hello:

When you drive the Lotus on the Hoosiers - and finally feel brakes that stop better than you wanted them to -- and realize a 1.8 liter Toyota motor will smoke your SBC by margins of MULTIPLE SECONDS -- on a real track -- you won't want to bother trying to make your street car into a race car. LOL

Ya know.. there's a place for you.

It's called anywhere but here. :bigun2:

[Ron in SoCal]

Those are some nice looking nuts to match your studs.

When you put it like that I hate to admit it, but I like 'em too.

[Sieg]

Sieg, you don't price shop online much do ya. :hello:

Not at your level princess.

The $1300 number was factoring local mount & balance also.

When I'm serious about buying absolutely! Late last night I went to Summit, both Discount and America's sites gave me a call the local dealer for a price quote notification. I've dealt with the local Discount when I originally bought the NT's....and won't go back, the America's store is good for rigs like Betsy. :D

Just about everything I buy for the car and hobby shop is online as there are no brick and mortar stores within a 100 miles that support my car hobbies. Lots of gun stores, heads shops and breweries though. :rolleyes:

[Sieg]

Scott, I just got 2-265's and 2-295's NT05's delivered (free shipping) for $903. Use discount tire direct for pricing: http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/home.do?
Thanks for the benchmark Aaron. :thumbsup:

Those are some nice looking nuts to match your studs.
I thought the same about Tucker. :lmao:

When you put it like that I hate to admit it, but I like 'em too.

Hurts duzzinit. :mock:

[glassman]

So as far as the tires go, how much is too old for the track? ive got "new" bfg's but there circa '07 (garaged but....) not sure they'll be new enough for da track though....

[GregWeld]

So as far as the tires go, how much is too old for the track? ive got "new" bfg's but there circa '07 (garaged but....) not sure they'll be new enough for da track though....



Straight from the USCA rule book:



9. Tire age - Tires must have a manufacture date within three (3) years of the date of the USCA event being entered. Here’s how to check the date:

[bonecrrusher]

Straight from the USCA rule book:



9. Tire age - Tires must have a manufacture date within three (3) years of the date of the USCA event being entered. Here’s how to check the date:

Wow - what a load of crap.

My 345x30x19's are like 3 years old by manufacture date - yet have like 1500 miles on them from last years Power Tour - they are a new old set from Tirerack.

No way in hell am I replacing them for that event.

[Sieg]

Stupid hurts......but it does get rid of the 3:31 gearing. :unibrow:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DMSJzx9/0/XL/i-DMSJzx9-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-b6jjV4x/0/XL/i-b6jjV4x-XL.jpg

Spider gear shim slipped out and I didn't detect it. =(

[glassman]

Whaaaattttt???!!!!!

[Track Junky]

Whaaaattttt???!!!!!

That's what I said when he texted me the pic :yes:

[Sieg]

That's what I said when he texted me the pic :yes:

Plenty of time.......not leaving until Friday morning. :bang:

[Vegas69]

Then why all we all here?


:confused59:


lol

Some start doing things the smart and easy way much sooner than others. ha

[Vince@Meanstreets]

doh, won't do that again.....put some disc brakes on it since its out

[Sieg]

doh, won't do that again.....put some disc brakes on it since its out
Motive 3:73's, Timken bearings, ARP cap studs, clutch tune and bolt it back up. That put the hurt on my disc brakes. But the day in day out reality is I'll appreciate the gear change more often than a brake upgrade for the majority of my usage.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

ok fine, carry on.

[Sieg]

ok fine, carry on.
Done!
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-kSKsj2k/0/XL/i-kSKsj2k-XL.jpg

I feel very fortunate as there are very few decent automotive resources in our area, but Roy's Differential is an Oasis. Roy's is a one man shop that small, clean and organized for efficiency. Roy is in his sixties with a drag racing background and all he does is rear ends and predominantly Chevrolet and Ford. He has a large inventory of Motive gear sets in stock and has years of experience setting them up.

My timing was such that he met me at the shop this morning and pulled the cover, went over the details and he said it will be ready Tuesday.

What was nice was he spoke highly of the 12-bolt's design and durability and the simple fact that they put more horsepower to the ground than a 9". :D

[Track Junky]

Great news Sieg. You spending night at the track or getting a room? I may need a ride into town.

[Sieg]

Great news Sieg. You spending night at the track or getting a room? I may need a ride into town.
At the track.......if I don't behave I'll probably be sleeping in the trailer. :sieg:

[Sieg]

While the rear end is at the doctor that creates access opportunities to clean up details and install the Energy urethane rear spring bushings I've had laying around for years......not the best but probably better than the OEM rubber. Fronts were previously installed. I also didn't want to go through the 1/8 turn at a time reinstall on the OEM shackle bolts and locking nuts....that was a pain!

So I grabbed some grade 8 bolts and heavy washers, modified the shackles, and made a sleeve out of stainless and brass tubing to get a snug fit with the bolts and bushings. $25 spent.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dTcXq98/0/XL/i-dTcXq98-XL.jpg

[GregWeld]

Don't forget to grease 'em - or they squeak like crazy....

[Sieg]

Don't forget to grease 'em - or they squeak like crazy....

:D

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-3mMNTLq/0/XL/i-3mMNTLq-XL.jpg

[Panteracer]

Sieg,
you could also raise the front shackel bolt up 3/4" (old Herb Adams trick)
I bought his brackets from National Parts Depot.. or you could cut the top
off yours and weld a filler in the old hole location...
It is suppose to get rid of the spring wrap or wheel hop
I had to modify Herbs brackets to make them work so to modify yours is easier and cheaper

They also use a larger shackel out back to cut down on the flex

Spherical bushings at the front are also good but not cheap

Spend more money and you can buy a custom Mono spring
stronger on the front side....like an never ending money pit

Sound like someone we know on this board:)

I just did all this to my car.. saves weight and cheaper than
a 3 or 4 link setup

I had mine apart several times and yes my 12 bolt bearings finally
went out after 26 years... Gears were perfect after all the abuse
they have taken from big Pontiacs and cheater slicks over the years

What is going to break next?

Panteracer Norcal Bob

[FETorino]

Sieg,
you could also raise the front shackel bolt up 3/4" (old Herb Adams trick)
I bought his brackets from National Parts Depot.. or you could cut the top
off yours and weld a filler in the old hole location...
It is suppose to get rid of the spring wrap or wheel hop
I had to modify Herbs brackets to make them work so to modify yours is easier and cheaper



What is going to break next?

Panteracer Norcal Bob

I think Herb also suggested raising the front eye height to eliminate roll steer from the rear suspension to increase front grip and reduce understeer.

On a second gen you could use a bracket that he sold. On a first gen you have to do some surgery to make room to move the spring eye upward.

The next thing to break will be a Lotus:lol:

[GregWeld]

What is going to break next?

Panteracer Norcal Bob



THE BANK!

[GregWeld]

:D

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-3mMNTLq/0/XL/i-3mMNTLq-XL.jpg




I was working with my old buddy Pierre --- and he's marking something "L" and "R" --- I said -- how many are we working with? "One each side" was the reply... I said "okay" --- You do realize that if you mark one "L" then the other one must be "R", right?

Then I said, which way is "R"? from the back of the car or the front? :>) How about marking one "D" for Driver or "P" for Passenger...

I love busting his balls....

[96z28ss]

I was working with my old buddy Pierre --- and he's marking something "L" and "R" --- I said -- how many are we working with? "One each side" was the reply... I said "okay" --- You do realize that if you mark one "L" then the other one must be "R", right?

Then I said, which way is "R"? from the back of the car or the front? :>) How about marking one "D" for Driver or "P" for Passenger...

I love busting his balls....

Your supposed to respect your elders.

[Sieg]

Your supposed to respect your elders.
Tell Rob that would ya! :slingshot:

[Sieg]

I was working with my old buddy Pierre --- and he's marking something "L" and "R" --- I said -- how many are we working with? "One each side" was the reply... I said "okay" --- You do realize that if you mark one "L" then the other one must be "R", right?

Then I said, which way is "R"? from the back of the car or the front? :>) How about marking one "D" for Driver or "P" for Passenger...

I love busting his balls....
Pierre's my newest best friend, be nice. :rules:

[Sieg]

Roy Differential's called today about noon, I saw the caller ID and though oh sh*t something is not good. Wrong, rear end was ready to go. So off to the shop to pick it up I went and stopped by Coyote Steel and picked up some scrap aluminum to fab new lowering blocks with a 5* pinion correction.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-mDVm6qX/0/XL/i-mDVm6qX-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8VsZM5K/0/XL/i-8VsZM5K-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HpNmpbz/0/XL/i-HpNmpbz-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-gFdG36h/0/XL/i-gFdG36h-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hKfs8mG/0/XL/i-hKfs8mG-XL.jpg

All that's left is to connect the brake line and u-joint, bleed the system, mount the wheels and break it in.

[Sieg]

Buttoned it all up today and did some easy breakin laps around the neighborhood and backroads. Everythings sounds and feels good........hit the open road and at 50-52 mph the vibration begins and at 65 it ain't good.

The lowering block/pinion shim I built was 5* to replace the original 4* shim which had a slight driveline vibration at 65* in 5th and 6th. By slight I mean definitely driveable long distance and nowhere near what I'm experiencing now.

So.......I loosened everything up and cut a 2* wafer shim installed opposing the other to get to 3* total wedge.....test drove, no change in the level of vibration.

So......I loosened everything up and reinstalled the original lowering block and 4* wedge.....test drove, no change in the level of vibration.

60 mph in 4th 5th or 6th doesn't seem to have an effect on the level of vibration. It comes in just above 50 and increases.

Is it driveline/pinion angle, a bad set of gears, or ?????

Help!

[Track Junky]

U-joint or driveshaft balance?

[4mul8ion]

Does it vibrate when you're accelerating or decelerating in that speed range? Does it come in and go out when you tip in and out of the throttle? Or is it just there at 50+ regardless of accelerating / deceleration?

[Sieg]

U-joint or driveshaft balance?

The u-joints and driveshaft have about 3K miles on them. They were fine on Thursday.

Does it vibrate when you're accelerating or decelerating in that speed range? Does it come in and go out when you tip in and out of the throttle? Or is it just there at 50+ regardless of accelerating / deceleration?
When breaking it in I was running 1800 to 2500-3000 rpm easy accel decel and could feel or hear anything.

In and out of throttle doesn't seem to invoke anything.

Rolling up and through 50-52 mph it's there. The frequency feels higher than say a tire/wheel balance issue

[GregWeld]

But you did more than just the rear end -- you also added wheel studs... have you looked at that at all?

[intocarss]

Is the DS seated properly in the yoke?

[GregWeld]

Pinion nose is DOWN right??

[4mul8ion]

Any possibility of the U joint not seating correctly in the axle flange or the pinion flange not seating correctly on the new gearset?

One check to consider is to measure how much runout is on the driveshaft near the rear axle pinion flange, the center and near the front slip yoke end.

[glassman]

I know this is random, and u probably know this, but air pressure in the tires?

[DaleTx]

Roy Differential's called today about noon, I saw the caller ID and though oh sh*t something is not good. Wrong, rear end was ready to go. So off to the shop to pick it up I went and stopped by Coyote Steel and picked up some scrap aluminum to fab new lowering blocks with a 5* pinion correction.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hKfs8mG/0/XL/i-hKfs8mG-XL.jpg

All that's left is to connect the brake line and u-joint, bleed the system, mount the wheels and break it in.

I could be way off here but it looks like your wedge may be in backwards. The axle looks like it is pointed up in the front rather than down.

I went out and took a picture of mine. The wedge on mine is set up so the front of the axle is pointed down.... the opposite of what I see in your picture. The narrow gap between the leaf spring mount plate and axle is towards the front of the car on my car... on your car the narrow gap is towards the back of the car.

Just an observation... maybe something to check.

Here is a pic of mine with the narrow gap towards the front of the car... which makes the front of the axle point down.
http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2014-04-29210817_zps4103fee4.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2014-04-29210817_zps4103fee4.jpg.html)

[intocarss]

^^^ It does look like it's the opposite of yours Dale

[Sieg]

But you did more than just the rear end -- you also added wheel studs... have you looked at that at all?

Didn't redrill holes just tapped the existing. Wheels mounted up fine.

[Sieg]

Is the DS seated properly in the yoke?

Any possibility of the U joint not seating correctly in the axle flange or the pinion flange not seating correctly on the new gearset?

One check to consider is to measure how much runout is on the driveshaft near the rear axle pinion flange, the center and near the front slip yoke end.

I had paint marks on both so they are indexed the same.

Runout might be interesting thanks.

Damn I wish I had a drive-on ramp right now........or even wheel stands! :bang:

[Sieg]

I could be way off here but it looks like your wedge may be in backwards. The axle looks like it is pointed up in the front rather than down.

I went out and took a picture of mine. The wedge on mine is set up so the front of the axle is pointed down.... the opposite of what I see in your picture. The narrow gap between the leaf spring mount plate and axle is towards the front of the car on my car... on your car the narrow gap is towards the back of the car.

Just an observation... maybe something to check.

Here is a pic of mine with the narrow gap towards the front of the car... which makes the front of the axle point down.
http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2014-04-29210817_zps4103fee4.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2014-04-29210817_zps4103fee4.jpg.html)
Reversing the wedges was the first thing I thought, went through my images to confirm earlier today and this is how it was.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WkMLDSJ/0/XL/i-WkMLDSJ-XL.jpg

I'm not saying this is right but thats where we ended up when installing the trans with a drive on lift so I could determine the best angles given the setup.

What bothers me is I made three 1* changes and there was no noticeable change. :headscratch:

Realistically the biggest change from my baseline was the ring and pinion and new bearings.

I'll check with Roy who did the setup in the morning and see what he thinks.

[intocarss]

Is the shim installed with the tapper towards the front of the car?? The yoke on the rear end should face down I'm thinking at least -3*..And the u joint is sitting all the way in the pocket (nice that you marked it)

[Sieg]

Is the shim installed with the tapper towards the front of the car?? and the u joint is sitting all the way in the pocket (nice that you marked it)

No. The driveline is near parallel to the ground in this car. Engine/trans is 2.25* downward.

I've got the routine down now so I can try zero wedge and 2* & 4* opposite of what I have and see what happens.

Regretfull I don't have a convenient way to take accurate driveline measurements at this time.

I'm wondering if changing out the rear shackle bushings to urethane impacted the angles? Or if the shackles are too tight restricting movement. They're torqued to 10 ft lbs. ??? Travel felt OK, turn-in and cornering stability definitely improved.

[Sieg]

Here's the info I used to set angles when I installed the T56:
http://www.iedls.com/asp/admin/getFile.asp?RID=10&TID=28&FN=PDF
I used the example in Figure 5

I'm wondering if the urethane bushings I installed in the rear shackles at the same time are too tight and binding thus effecting the pinion angle. I torqued the uppers at 5 lbs, could get the torque wrench on the lowers so they're by feel. :headscratch:

[GregWeld]

Pinion nose is DOWN right??



Yes -- should have been is NOT down....

[GregWeld]

A driveline will feel like it's a rotational vibration -- kind of moving "around" the car...

Tires out of balance feel more like a "bouncing" vibration...

A bent wheel feels like a side to side vibration... or shaking side to side.


What we don't know is what kind of vibration you're feeling???

[GregWeld]

I know you've read these instructions/set up on driveshaft angles....


I've seen situation in FIG 7 -- many times.... and hope that you've loaded the rear axle and checked your driveshaft angle. I have a tool for that if you want me to bring it with me???

[Sieg]

Yes -- should have been is NOT down....
It's the same as it was before the gear and bushing change and it vibrates like a mother at 50-52.
A driveline will feel like it's a rotational vibration -- kind of moving "around" the car...

Tires out of balance feel more like a "bouncing" vibration...

A bent wheel feels like a side to side vibration... or shaking side to side.


What we don't know is what kind of vibration you're feeling???
Check......feels centered like the slight vibration that was present but magnified.

I know you've read these instructions/set up on driveshaft angles....


I've seen situation in FIG 7 -- many times.... and hope that you've loaded the rear axle and checked your driveshaft angle. I have a tool for that if you want me to bring it with me???

I jacked it up this morning but need taller jack stands to support the rear axle. Need to pick up a kid from school and grab taller jack stands then I'll confirm relations and angles best as possible with my little digital gauge. Then I'll loosen the shackles to snug and recheck angles. We'll see. :headscratch:

[Sieg]

Engine trans -2.4*
Pinion +1.4*
Driveline -.6

2.4-.6 = -1.8
.6-1.4 = -.8
Uncancelled angle = 1.0

If the pinion goes up, that puts the driveline closer to 0 thus reducing the uncancelled angle..........Right? :headscratch:

None of Inlands examples show pinion down.....is there a reason?

[GregWeld]

Engine trans -2.4*
Pinion +1.4*
Driveline -.6

2.4-.6 = -1.8
.6-1.4 = -.8
Uncancelled angle = 1.0

If the pinion goes up, that puts the driveline closer to 0 thus reducing the uncancelled angle..........Right? :headscratch:

None of Inlands examples show pinion down.....is there a reason?



Yes -- because engine trans are always DOWN.

Can you get the pinion angle up so it cancels??

[4mul8ion]

Just running some rough numbers here, the vibration that was there occurred at 65 mph with a 3.31 ratio. With the new 3.73 ratio there is a vibration at about 52 mph. With a 275/40r18 tire, 65 mph is about 2700 shaft rpm with the 3.31. 2700 rpm of the shaft is about 45 hz. With the new 3.73 ratio, 52 mph is about 2440 rpm or about 40 hz. Might be the same vibration source that's now occurring lower in vehicle speed due to the ratio change. How well does the slip yoke fit in the trans. Any slop? U joints feel free to pivot?

[GregWeld]

Thinking about this ---- since the same issue was there - but got worse with the changes:


Major change was the improved bushings -- maybe stiffening the rear end as an assembly..... so just talking out loud now.... the pinion CLIMBS with force applied... maybe it used to (before new bushings) climb enough at speed to partly correct an out of angle driveshaft thus REDUCING the vibration (driveshaft working angles) and now it can't climb as much as it used to so is holding back and making the working angles out enough that it's increasing the vibration?

[Sieg]

Yes -- because engine trans are always DOWN.

Can you get the pinion angle up so it cancels??

Yes, adding more wedge the front of the perch will rotate the nose up.
I had 5* up front at first I can add the 2* wedges I cut and see how it specs out.

My floor jack and those 1/2" u-bolts are kicking my butt! :lol:

[Sieg]

Just running some rough numbers here, the vibration that was there occurred at 65 mph with a 3.31 ratio. With the new 3.73 ratio there is a vibration at about 52 mph. With a 275/40r18 tire, 65 mph is about 2700 shaft rpm with the 3.31. 2700 rpm of the shaft is about 45 hz. With the new 3.73 ratio, 52 mph is about 2440 rpm or about 40 hz. Might be the same vibration source that's now occurring lower in vehicle speed due to the ratio change. How well does the slip yoke fit in the trans. Any slop? U joints feel free to pivot?

Thanks for the math - much appreciated and the 65 mph is spot on. The intensity increase is alarming.

The trans, driveline, and u-joints have 3K 'relatively easy' miles on them. Ideally the driveline could be a 1/2" longer. Car in the air I can easily rotate the driveline by hand and don't feel any u-joint interference.

I you guys need me I'll be under the car doing shoulder and ab exercises. :D

[Sieg]

Thinking about this ---- since the same issue was there - but got worse with the changes:


Major change was the improved bushings -- maybe stiffening the rear end as an assembly..... so just talking out loud now.... the pinion CLIMBS with force applied... maybe it used to (before new bushings) climb enough at speed to partly correct an out of angle driveshaft thus REDUCING the vibration (driveshaft working angles) and now it can't climb as much as it used to so is holding back and making the working angles out enough that it's increasing the vibration?

I'd buy into that logic as the bushings made a noticeable effect on turn-in and cornering stability.

[GregWeld]

For laying on the floor and working under a car ---- 12 TON jack stands are a requirement....


Oh -- and a jack or a way to get the jack up enough -- to raise it 24"..... or near that. So sometimes guys have to go up -- set up the jack stands -- then put the jack on some boards (I don't like doing this but most jacks only go up 17 or 18") and get it up some more....


IS THE BALANCE PIECE THAT'S ALWAYS ADDED TO A DRIVELINE STILL IN PLACE??? Sometimes if they're not welded on well -- they'll break off.... it should be a small circular piece or maybe a square -- usually near one end. <writing all of the above incase someone else is reading and has issues they want to work out>

[Sieg]

For laying on the floor and working under a car ---- 12 TON jack stands are a requirement....


Oh -- and a jack or a way to get the jack up enough -- to raise it 24"..... or near that. So sometimes guys have to go up -- set up the jack stands -- then put the jack on some boards (I don't like doing this but most jacks only go up 17 or 18") and get it up some more....


IS THE BALANCE PIECE THAT'S ALWAYS ADDED TO A DRIVELINE STILL IN PLACE??? Sometimes if they're not welded on well -- they'll break off.... it should be a small circular piece or maybe a square -- usually near one end. <writing all of the above incase someone else is reading and has issues they want to work out>
Balance plaque is in place and the location coincides with the runout on the dial indicator.

The 7* wedge was a slight improvement........-20% maybe. Just put it back up and stands to verify measurements.

[4mul8ion]

Since stock 12 bolts are not centered, how about the cross-car angle on the U joints?

[Sieg]

Well.........I added 7* wedge to it and it was a slight improvement but not near what could be considered close. The limiting factor in adding more was the pinion snubber was nearing 1.75" clearance at ride height....not good.

Dale called and we discussed the situation since our cars stances are within 1/4 inches of each other using the same trans, crossmember, rear end and springs. Pinion down appeared to be the only way to achieve the necessary range of adjustment and clearance.

I went extreme with 5* wedge and that put the pinion down 7.8 (on my baseline which is skewed but repeatable) did a little rough math and said no way it will but drove it anyway after checking rotation for clearances and binding. Not good at all.....babied it home. So I took another jump and went with 2* pinion down wedge and that was similar to the pinion up 7* wedge. Pulled back into the garage at 9 pm and threw it up on the stands again and did one more swap to a 1" straight block. Test drive finally produced some hope as the vibration was neutralized 60+% and started to fade away at 64 mph but I now have a decel vibe but that (if I'm correct) tells me I need to move the pinion up. Next week I'll start adding 1* increments. FWIW the last swap and 6 mile test drive was done in 70 minutes.

It's good enough for a Willows Taxi. :D

I'm flippin spent.....if any says crawling under cars, tossing jack stands, and pumping floor jacks, and torquing long u-bolts isn't exercise I'll pummel them.

Time to focus on packing and driving! :woot: :woot:

[GregWeld]

If it can make a beer run to WalMart --- it's good enough.... Oh yeah -- and get us to Casa Ramos and back tomorrow night.


I'll be at the 199 <our usual rendezvous> probably around 4 or 5 PM.... with saw... which you should plan on getting home tonight, if possible, rather than dragging that heavy little POS south and back, if that works for ya.

[Sieg]

If it can make a beer run to WalMart --- it's good enough.... Oh yeah -- and get us to Casa Ramos and back tomorrow night.


I'll be at the 199 <our usual rendezvous> probably around 4 or 5 PM.... with saw... which you should plan on getting home tonight, if possible, rather than dragging that heavy little POS south and back, if that works for ya.

Norwood don't do the Springtuckey WallyMart lot.......that's similar to driving into downtown Tikrit!

He's really looking forward to chillin at Casa Ramos though.

Shoot me a text when you land at 199.

[Track Junky]

If its not the rear end it has to be the u-joint or driveshaft balance. :gitrdun:

[Sieg]

Pinion nose is DOWN right??

PS - You were right...........again.

You're the best guesser I know.

:underchair:

[Panteracer]

I hate to say it but I changed my lowering blocks several
times and also just lowered the front eyelets and never
installed any angled wedges... never had any vibration
before or after

I need to check to see where my pinon is pointing as it has
me wondering

I do agree that is hard work playing with those damn springs
and u-bolts.. I hope I am done with mine

Have fun driving the Lotus... the car issue will be waiting
when you get back

Panteracer Norcal Bob

[Sieg]

I hate to say it but I changed my lowering blocks several
times and also just lowered the front eyelets and never
installed any angled wedges... never had any vibration
before or after

I need to check to see where my pinon is pointing as it has
me wondering

I do agree that is hard work playing with those damn springs
and u-bolts.. I hope I am done with mine

Have fun driving the Lotus... the car issue will be waiting
when you get back

Panteracer Norcal Bob
Thanks Bob!

Thankfully I think I'm closing in on the sweet spot.

A 3 or 4 Link and a lift would have been waaaay too easy. :sieg:

[glassman]

Time you think you guys will be there tomorrow?

[GregWeld]

Time you think you guys will be there tomorrow?




I'm in Coburg tonight -- Sieg is coming at 5:30AM --- we'll load his Camaro and be out on the road by 6AM --- figure 8 hour drive - puts us in there around 2PM

[glassman]

Sweet, see ya there!

[Sieg]

Sweet, see ya there!

:drive: :woot: :woot:

[Flash68]

Drive safely you geezers.

[Sieg]

Drive safely you geezers.

:geezer:

When will we be blessed with your presence? :D

[Flash68]

:geezer:

When will we be blessed with your presence? :D

Saturday mornin... which to me is usually around 11:58 a.m. :D

[Sieg]

Saturday mornin... which to me is usually around 11:58 a.m. :D

That early :sieg:

You wouldn't do too well with our 5:30 am rendezvous tomorrow huh? :D

:happy23:

[Flash68]

That early :sieg:

You wouldn't do too well with our 5:30 am rendezvous tomorrow huh? :D

:happy23:

It's a LOT easier and rewarding to get up at the buttcrack for track related festivities. :unibrow:

[Sieg]

Still fighting the driveline vibes issue!

Put the car on a drive on lift and checked angles.

Trans 2.2* down
Driveline 1.4* down
Pinion .6* down

According to this calculator I'm .15-.25* down on the pinion from 1 to 1 operating angles.

I double checked the u-joints and there's no noticeable play.

I finding it hard to believe .25* is causing a relatively noticeable vibe that comes in around 62 mph in 5th gear. (.80 OD)

I've been using .5" x 2.25" x 18 ga metal shims to add to the wedge until it's zero'd. One more adjustment and angle check and if that doesn't do it I'll take the driveline out and check it's balance.

The 3:73 gear has obviously compounded issues......IMO.

:bang:

[GregWeld]

Still fighting the driveline vibes issue!

Put the car on a drive on lift and checked angles.

Trans 2.2* down
Driveline 1.4* down
Pinion .6* down

According to this calculator I'm .15-.25* down on the pinion from 1 to 1 operating angles.

I double checked the u-joints and there's no noticeable play.

I finding it hard to believe .25* is causing a relatively noticeable vibe that comes in around 62 mph in 5th gear. (.80 OD)

I've been using .5" x 2.25" x 18 ga metal shims to add to the wedge until it's zero'd. One more adjustment and angle check and if that doesn't do it I'll take the driveline out and check it's balance.

The 3:73 gear has obviously compounded issues......IMO.

:bang:



It could have compounded an issue yes -- driveline speed would be higher.


My guess is --- it may have more to do with the output shaft of the tranny... and how much driveline is hanging out.

[Sieg]

It could have compounded an issue yes -- driveline speed would be higher.


My guess is --- it may have more to do with the output shaft of the tranny... and how much driveline is hanging out.
Funny you mention that because I measured how much yoke was left on the table today and was thinking the same thing.
Inland Empire supplied the shaft with the kit and I think they error on the short side. Ideally I'd like the shaft to be .3-.5" longer.

The measurement from the seal (which is very close to the end of the shaft) to finished surface of the yoke is actually 29mm or 1-1/8" at ride height.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wRqnTqx/0/XL/i-wRqnTqx-XL.jpg

As noted before you're the best guesser I know. :D

[Blake Foster]

We have found that the GOOD strange yokes can make a difference as well as the drive shaft balance. some shops only balance at about 800-1100 rpm and the drive shaft speed is a lot higher obviously. good luck it is like chasing your tail sometimes

[Flash68]

The measurement from the seal (which is very close to the end of the shaft) to finished surface of the yoke is actually 29mm or 1-1/8" at ride height.



is that the measurement that is generally supposed to be approx 3/4"?

[Musclerodz]

is it a steady rpm vibration or power on or power off vibration.

[Sieg]

is that the measurement that is generally supposed to be approx 3/4"?I'm not sure what the spec is but that would be what I'd think is about right. Thankfully we have a longtime local driveline service.


is it a steady rpm vibration or power on or power off vibration.

Comes in steady at certain rpms and gears. Noticeable on decel, changed for the better with a passengers in the car. I've done so many shim adjustments I can't quote specific ranges anymore. :sieg: Hopefully I get a chance to drive it tonight and see if removing a .0375" (20 ga) shim made any difference.

Before the 3:73's were installed there was a slight but tolerable vibration in the 65-70 mph......rear view mirror was still usable. That's not the case now. :D

I'm guessing driveline balance may be off as Blake mentioned, but that yoke depth could be a contributor. When the car was on stands with the rear unsupported the yoke pulls out about 1/8" from the ride height position and there is some slop, at ride height the slop is reduced to what I "think" would insignificant........but thinking has got me in trouble more than once. :D

[GregWeld]

3/4" is the spec --- and out 1 1/8th is a bunch. This doesn't mean that's your problem -- but sometimes it's a stack up of little errors.... too much stick out - a minor out of balance and boom - ya got a problem you can feel.

Since you've done just about everything else... it's time to look at "what else".

[GregWeld]

3/4" is the spec --- and out 1 1/8th is a bunch. This doesn't mean that's your problem -- but sometimes it's a stack up of little errors.... too much stick out - a minor out of balance and boom - ya got a problem you can feel.

Since you've done just about everything else... it's time to look at "what else".




The cheap fix is to move the engine back....



Kills two birds with one stone...



Too much hanging out causes the driveline to "orbit".....

[Musclerodz]

I'm not sure what the spec is but that would be what I'd think is about right. Thankfully we have a longtime local driveline service.




Comes in steady at certain rpms and gears. Noticeable on decel, changed for the better with a passengers in the car. I've done so many shim adjustments I can't quote specific ranges anymore. :sieg: Hopefully I get a chance to drive it tonight and see if removing a .0375" (20 ga) shim made any difference.

Before the 3:73's were installed there was a slight but tolerable vibration in the 65-70 mph......rear view mirror was still usable. That's not the case now. :D

I'm guessing driveline balance may be off as Blake mentioned, but that yoke depth could be a contributor. When the car was on stands with the rear unsupported the yoke pulls out about 1/8" from the ride height position and there is some slop, at ride height the slop is reduced to what I "think" would insignificant........but thinking has got me in trouble more than once. :D

If its noticeable on decel, roll the pinion down further. I just had to reset a ridetech 4 link that had a vibration on decel. I would roll it at least 1-1.5* down if you have not done that yet.

[Sieg]

If its noticeable on decel, roll the pinion down further. I just had to reset a ridetech 4 link that had a vibration on decel. I would roll it at least 1-1.5* down if you have not done that yet.
Thanks, I've taken it past the best spot in both directions. After the last month I wish it was a 4 link!

I've done enough shimming to be pretty sure it's balance or the yoke penetration possibly.

The one change I did make to the previous setup was installing urethane bushings in the rear spring eyes (fronts were already in) I guess that in itself could have amplified a vibration condition but the difference was too drastic IMO.

Test drive window of opportunity is now!

[Musclerodz]

Thanks, I've taken it past the best spot in both directions. After the last month I wish it was a 4 link!

I've done enough shimming to be pretty sure it's balance or the yoke penetration possibly.

The one change I did make to the previous setup was installing urethane bushings in the rear spring eyes (fronts were already in) I guess that in itself could have amplified a vibration condition but the difference was too drastic IMO.

Test drive window of opportunity is now!Didn't realize you were still on leafs. Have you considered changing to a 3" aluminum driveshaft? The larger aluminum shaft will absorb some vibrations that a small dia steel may amplfy.

[GregWeld]

Didn't realize you were still on leafs. Have you considered changing to a 3" aluminum driveshaft? The larger aluminum shaft will absorb some vibrations that a small dia steel may amplfy.




I can't imagine that they're still even available - even in a wrecking yard out in the middle of Wyoming...


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Sieg]

Didn't realize you were still on leafs. Have you considered changing to a 3" aluminum driveshaft? The larger aluminum shaft will absorb some vibrations that a small dia steel may amplify.

I'm running a 3.5" steel shaft from Inland Empire. This last shim change move the vibration up in on the mph chart, 65-70 isn't bad at all, 75 mph and the mirrors fuzzing out, 85 mph and the mirror is oscillating fuzz...... :D

Upside is it improved..........what's bugging me is I've used this setting. Either I didn't get a wedge positioned on a pin properly and missed that when torquing the u-bolts even though I've visually inspected every time (keep in mind on my back not on a lift) or maybe I've got a moving target. :headscratch:

I can't imagine that they're still even available - even in a wrecking yard out in the middle of Wyoming...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I think John Deere still uses them on a limited basis.........:guns:

[Payton King]

Had a friend that had the same problem one time and his bolts were slowly backing out of his ring gear. Not saying that is your problem, just relaying another possibility.

I have also seen a car have that problem where the axles were changed and no one noticed it had a ford register instead of a chevy. When the wheels were bolted up they were not perfectly centered and it did the same as your car.

Stuff like what is going on will make you crazy. Good luck

[GregWeld]

This vibration (not a GOOD vibration - Beach Boys) felt "centered" in the car - so I understand Siegs chasing the driveline settings.

The rest of the car felt planted and smooth. It's really a "nice old car". I don't mean that as a slam - rather it's a description of a car that hasn't been Pro Toured in our usual rotisserieed / body off $250K build... I've owned several of these, and this is a nice one.


I've felt driveline angle issues, and when it was the pinion setting - the vibration felt "rear" and sounded "rear". It was also usually MUCH more pronounced than what Sieg is dealing with.


This felt more "harmonic" to me. I think it's the too short (and perhaps unbalanced) driveline "orbiting"... and it may have already ruined the output shaft bearing - or at least - being in the process of doing that. The output shaft is already unsupported for a pretty good distance... then you hang a driveline on it.

[Track Junky]

I'm still sticking with imbalanced drive shaft.

[Blake Foster]

the other thing it COULD be is the trans itself, we have had a car in here with an old t56 LS1 type, it would only vibrate in 5th and 6th, customer had the trans rebuilt and said it was MUCH better. seems a lot of the drive shaft over speed could be the cause??
Scott why are you using a 3.5" steel shaft? seems a bit over kill. and even if it is .083 wall DOM it will be really heavy. my 1000 hp drag car only uses a 3" steel shaft. on the cars that we have used aluminum shafts in the issue does not seem to be as apparent.

[Musclerodz]

I can't imagine that they're still even available - even in a wrecking yard out in the middle of Wyoming...


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAWell..... you know what ASSume means. :lolhit:

[Sieg]

This vibration (not a GOOD vibration - Beach Boys) felt "centered" in the car - so I understand Siegs chasing the driveline settings.

The rest of the car felt planted and smooth. It's really a "nice old car". I don't mean that as a slam - rather it's a description of a car that hasn't been Pro Toured in our usual rotisserieed / body off $250K build... I've owned several of these, and this is a nice one.


I've felt driveline angle issues, and when it was the pinion setting - the vibration felt "rear" and sounded "rear". It was also usually MUCH more pronounced than what Sieg is dealing with.


This felt more "harmonic" to me. I think it's the too short (and perhaps unbalanced) driveline "orbiting"... and it may have already ruined the output shaft bearing - or at least - being in the process of doing that. The output shaft is already unsupported for a pretty good distance... then you hang a driveline on it.

Ruined bearing...........NOOOOOOOO! I hear you but I don't want too! Besides I'm not in the mood. :D

It well could be, though the feeling through the shifter has not changed. Sounds like that shaft needs to go to the local shop and be checked for balance first, then lengthened and balanced for the proper rpm range.

the other thing it COULD be is the trans itself, we have had a car in here with an old t56 LS1 type, it would only vibrate in 5th and 6th, customer had the trans rebuilt and said it was MUCH better. seems a lot of the drive shaft over speed could be the cause??
Scott why are you using a 3.5" steel shaft? seems a bit over kill. and even if it is .083 wall DOM it will be really heavy. my 1000 hp drag car only uses a 3" steel shaft. on the cars that we have used aluminum shafts in the issue does not seem to be as apparent.

Blake - This shaft was supplied with the Hurst Drivelines kit. The trans is a T56 Mag, close ratio.

I'll check the local shops pricing on aluminum as it sounds like to be buttery smooth aluminum is the way to go in OD trans applications.

I took a brief break............just so you gentlemen know I respect your input:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DdZzHrB/0/XL/i-DdZzHrB-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-sdgBWtd/0/X2/i-sdgBWtd-X2.jpg

I was glad to see the amount of yoke over the shaft, but another .5" wouldn't hurt. The photo distorts the measurement the actual coverage is 3-1/8"

Is that enough in your opinion?

If so re-balancing would be a lot cheaper than building a new shaft to gain a half inch. :D

[GregWeld]

Some times it's not about how much you put in --- it's about how much you leave hanging out. <oh if you could see the grin right now!>


I might add to this thought -- that Amy would certainly understand you're asking her to get a second full time job - so that you could get a new shaft.

[Sieg]

Some times it's not about how much you put in --- it's about how much you leave hanging out. <oh if you could see the grin right now!>


I might add to this thought -- that Amy would certainly understand you're asking her to get a second full time job - so that you could get a new shaft.

Let me rephrase the question: Is 3-1/8" enough output shaft coverage to be considered OK?

:D

[GregWeld]

Here's another thing that I've learned over the years...


Since there's NO POSSIBLE WAY to get a torque wrench on the u-bolts -- everyone over tighten's 'em.


Snug these nuts until the SPLIT WASHER closes.... and give it 1/8th more turn.

That's not much!!! So be careful!!


Once a split washer is "closed" it's going to do it's job of not letting the nut back off... the 1/8th addition turn is the torque spec.


Over tightening these will allow your drive line to turn --- but IT WILL CAUSE VIBRATION because it's grinding against an oval bearing cap.


Not saying you did this -- just adding this info because lots of people read this stuff.

[GregWeld]

Let me rephrase the question: Is 3-1/8" enough output shaft coverage to be considered OK?

:D



Different yokes for different strokes...


You can buy longer yokes. More yoke in makes a more stable u-joint... I'd run as long of a one as possible. Check the transmission specs to see what it will accept and allow for some stroke. It DOES move in and out.


You're probably running the 1310 joint --- I always upgrade this stuff to 1350 -- but that's a different issue.

If you're going to haul your driveline over to Inland... ask them to give you a loaner slip yoke -- and take it home and see if it will go in and out without any interference....

Then have them replace both your u-joints while you're there... just because... or at least have them check them for roundness (of the cap) - then have them do a HIGH SPEED balance...

[GregWeld]

Let me rephrase the question: Is 3-1/8" enough output shaft coverage to be considered OK?

:D




NOBODY would EVER be satisfied with 3 1/8th inches.... EVER... Do you have any loose rocks laying around??

[Blake Foster]

order a shaft from Mark Williams.

[Sieg]

NOBODY would EVER be satisfied with 3 1/8th inches.... EVER... Do you have any loose rocks laying around??

Well at least I know the difference between and Ooo, and Ahhh, and Oh my God.

:popcorn2:

[Sieg]

order a shaft from Mark Williams.

I just dropped the shaft off at Driveline Services to check the balance.......my last words were I hope it's out of balance.

Should know on Tuesday. :knokwood:

[GregWeld]

I just dropped the shaft off at Driveline Services to check the balance.......my last words were I hope it's out of balance.

Should know on Tuesday. :knokwood:




HAHAHAHAHAHAHA --- I'd have probably STARTED there....




But hey! You've been in need of some serious creeper time.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Sounds like the shaft is a bad mother...

rYriOuyJU5I

[Sieg]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA --- I'd have probably STARTED there....

But hey! You've been in need of some serious creeper time.

If it was alright previously? :buttkick:

Tuned up shaft installed.......talk about a business under-promising and over-delivering! Told me by Tues, called at 3 and said it was ready......quoted $85, charged $75. Customer for life........to bad for them I'm not younger. :D

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-QzWHtBP/0/XL/i-QzWHtBP-XL.jpg

Definitely improvement.........60-70% is my guess. It's not damage concerning like it was. Tested in 5th and 6th cruise speeds (65-75) and up to 95 in 6th. Light at the end of the tunnel!

[Track Junky]

Told ya :thumbsup: