Norwood

[Sieg]

Told ya :thumbsup:
Please tell me the finishing touches or just come up and show me how. Lodging, meals, K9 companionship, and beer is on the house. :D

[Track Junky]

Please tell me the finishing touches or just come up and show me how. Lodging, meals, K9 companionship, and beer is on the house. :D

Sheeeeet........Wish you were close enough to make the drive. Hate to say it but if its not the trans it has to be the amount yoke sticking out of the trans. My follow up fix would be the correct length drive shaft. My brother-n-law just bought a truck load of stuff from Amir Rosenbaum(old owner of Spectre) and one of the items was an aluminum drive shaft. I could talk him into given it to you for cheap if your interested.

[GregWeld]

If it was alright previously? :buttkick:





It might not have been previously alright -- but the old bushings -- might have been partially covering it up. Now you put some good bushings in that are transferring the motion of the ocean and so on.

My point wasn't that it was bad previously BTW -- My comment was more about that the minute I thought I had a drive shaft issue -- the first thing I'd have done was taken it to a shop and had the balance and Ujoints checked... BEFORE I made 53 adjustments to the pinion angle. :>)

[Sieg]

Sheeeeet........Wish you were close enough to make the drive. Hate to say it but if its not the trans it has to be the amount yoke sticking out of the trans. My follow up fix would be the correct length drive shaft. My brother-n-law just bought a truck load of stuff from Amir Rosenbaum(old owner of Spectre) and one of the items was an aluminum drive shaft. I could talk him into given it to you for cheap if your interested.

Size matters!

Norwood is 45.25" from end of output shaft to bolt face of the rear yoke. :D

[Track Junky]

Size matters!

Norwood is 45.25" from end of output shaft to bolt face of the rear yoke. :D

Give me center to center of eyelets and give me an idea of what size you will need from center to center. Don't think he sold it yet but I'll shoot him a text right now.

[Sieg]

It might not have been previously alright -- but the old bushings -- might have been partially covering it up. Now you put some good bushings in that are transferring the motion of the ocean and so on.

My point wasn't that it was bad previously BTW -- My comment was more about that the minute I thought I had a drive shaft issue -- the first thing I'd have done was taken it to a shop and had the balance and Ujoints checked... BEFORE I made 53 adjustments to the pinion angle. :>)

But it cost me $75! That's 15 hours labor in my shop! :lol:

It was only 12 or so........:sieg:

Without a doubt the rear eye leaf bushings have had a noticeable difference of the feel of the car. More so than I ever imagined. Besides the lateral cornering improvement the car is tracking differently on the freeway now (increased sensitivity and following contours) and I suspect they're the reason.

I also checked the rear yoke for lateral movement between the end stops, there's about a 1/32" an inch, 3/64th absolute max.

Now to determine if the driveline length and/or pinion angle is the remaining source. The driveline shop didn't think the length was an issue though I still think another 1/2" would be ideal......FWIW. He also spoke very highly of Roy's Differentials who did the gear swap.

[GregWeld]

I wouldn't get too hung up on the 1/32nd of an inch....


Think about what the ujoints are there for... the rear end is going up and down like a friggin yo-yo... it's moving side to side... it's got one wheel up and one wheel down with roll... and the motor is shaking around on it's rubber mounts and ditto the transmission. In other words -- there's a whole lotta moving going on...


In your case - it might be a Whole lotta Shakin'... but that's an Elvis problem.

You might never find the last harmonic going on. It could be the trans - it could be the flywheel... it could be a wheel and tire -- and it could be a whole combination of things rotational.

The thing is -- you've been able to move the harmonic around - up or down the RPM range... with your pinion movements - so you would think it's drivetrain related...


Now we'll get into something that is actually drive line related... which is the type of driveline you're using versus the actual rpms it's running at. I can't remember all the detail -- but you have to calc your rpm's that the driveline is running at -- and the diameter of the shaft needs to be matched or you get a harmonic set up.

Damned if I can remember what it's even called -- or where I've read about it -- etc but it's there somewhere on the Internet. And it may be something Ron Sutton knows about - or someone else on here.

[Sieg]

I wouldn't get too hung up on the 1/32nd of an inch....


Think about what the ujoints are there for... the rear end is going up and down like a friggin yo-yo... it's moving side to side... it's got one wheel up and one wheel down with roll... and the motor is shaking around on it's rubber mounts and ditto the transmission. In other words -- there's a whole lotta moving going on...


In your case - it might be a Whole lotta Shakin'... but that's an Elvis problem.

You might never find the last harmonic going on. It could be the trans - it could be the flywheel... it could be a wheel and tire -- and it could be a whole combination of things rotational.

The thing is -- you've been able to move the harmonic around - up or down the RPM range... with your pinion movements - so you would think it's drivetrain related...


Now we'll get into something that is actually drive line related... which is the type of driveline you're using versus the actual rpms it's running at. I can't remember all the detail -- but you have to calc your rpm's that the driveline is running at -- and the diameter of the shaft needs to be matched or you get a harmonic set up.

Damned if I can remember what it's even called -- or where I've read about it -- etc but it's there somewhere on the Internet. And it may be something Ron Sutton knows about - or someone else on here.

Thanks to Blake's mention of Mark Williams........

Critical speed is the speed at which a spinning shaft will become unstable. This is one of the single largest factors in driveshaft selection. When the whirling frequency and the natural frequency coincide, any vibrations will be multiplied. So much that the shaft may self destruct. Another way to think of this is that if a shaft naturally vibrates at 130 times a second, and one point on the shaft passes through 0 degrees 130 times a second (7800 RPM) then the shaft has hit a critical speed. There are several ways to raise the critical speed of a driveshaft. You can make it lighter, stiffer, or increase diameter without increasing weight. This is the reason carbon fiber makes a good driveshaft, it is stiff and light and can be made to any diameter or wall thickness. Aluminum, while it has a very good critical speed is not quite as strong as steel. Steel, with good strength characteristics will have a lower critical speed.
http://www.markwilliams.com/Images/critspeed.jpg

[intocarss]

I wouldn't get too hung up on the 1/32nd of an inch....


Think about what the ujoints are there for... the rear end is going up and down like a friggin yo-yo... it's moving side to side... it's got one wheel up and one wheel down with roll... and the motor is shaking around on it's rubber mounts and ditto the transmission. In other words -- there's a whole lotta moving going on...


In your case - it might be a Whole lotta Shakin'... but that's an Elvis problem.

You might never find the last harmonic going on. It could be the trans - it could be the flywheel... it could be a wheel and tire -- and it could be a whole combination of things rotational.

The thing is -- you've been able to move the harmonic around - up or down the RPM range... with your pinion movements - so you would think it's drivetrain related...


Now we'll get into something that is actually drive line related... which is the type of driveline you're using versus the actual rpms it's running at. I can't remember all the detail -- but you have to calc your rpm's that the driveline is running at -- and the diameter of the shaft needs to be matched or you get a harmonic set up.

Damned if I can remember what it's even called -- or where I've read about it -- etc but it's there somewhere on the Internet. And it may be something Ron Sutton knows about - or someone else on here. This??

http://www.chevyhardcore.com/tech-stories/drivetrain/driveshaft-technology-and-selecting-the-proper-shaft-for-your-ride/

[GregWeld]

BINGO!!!



Thanks to Blake's mention of Mark Williams........

Critical speed is the speed at which a spinning shaft will become unstable. This is one of the single largest factors in driveshaft selection. When the whirling frequency and the natural frequency coincide, any vibrations will be multiplied. So much that the shaft may self destruct. Another way to think of this is that if a shaft naturally vibrates at 130 times a second, and one point on the shaft passes through 0 degrees 130 times a second (7800 RPM) then the shaft has hit a critical speed. There are several ways to raise the critical speed of a driveshaft. You can make it lighter, stiffer, or increase diameter without increasing weight. This is the reason carbon fiber makes a good driveshaft, it is stiff and light and can be made to any diameter or wall thickness. Aluminum, while it has a very good critical speed is not quite as strong as steel. Steel, with good strength characteristics will have a lower critical speed.
http://www.markwilliams.com/Images/critspeed.jpg

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Sheeeeet........Wish you were close enough to make the drive. Hate to say it but if its not the trans it has to be the amount yoke sticking out of the trans. My follow up fix would be the correct length drive shaft. My brother-n-law just bought a truck load of stuff from Amir Rosenbaum(old owner of Spectre) and one of the items was an aluminum drive shaft. I could talk him into given it to you for cheap if your interested.

Size matters!

Norwood is 45.25" from end of output shaft to bolt face of the rear yoke. :D

no bueno, it was the spare from the 2nd gen....too chort.

[Sieg]

Sheeeeet........Wish you were close enough to make the drive. Hate to say it but if its not the trans it has to be the amount yoke sticking out of the trans. My follow up fix would be the correct length drive shaft. My brother-n-law just bought a truck load of stuff from Amir Rosenbaum(old owner of Spectre) and one of the items was an aluminum drive shaft. I could talk him into given it to you for cheap if your interested.

Size matters!

Norwood is 45.25" from end of output shaft to bolt face of the rear yoke. :D

no bueno, it was the spare from the 2nd gen....too chort.

Appreciate the offer and confirmation. Probably best I keep it local anyway since there's a decent shop here. :thumbsup:

[glassman]

So whats the final tally? did it work? or should i say does it work?

[Sieg]

So whats the final tally? did it work? or should i say does it work?

The final result is it's as close as it's gonna get. At the current ride height the trans/driveshaft is 2.2*/1.6* - 0.6 and the pinion is 5.0*/1.6* - 3.4. That combination produces the least vibes. It's fine at cruise speeds and low triple digit range. It's just noticeable coming off cruise throttle.

To get it right will require getting the pinion lower to get more working angle at the trans/driveshaft u-joint. The 1" blocks lift the pinion too high so they need to be eliminated by using reverse eye leafs or a 4-link. At least that what I've concluded. As is the engine/trans angle is high by .3*-.8*.


After 15 pinion angle changes and test drives..........have I mentioned that I hate leaf springs lately? :D

[Sieg]

In an effort to neutralize the little vibe that's left I'm going to replace the right side Moroso solid motor mount with an Energy Suspension urethane mount and see if that has any neutralizing effect. I'm leaving the left side mount as the header to steering box clearance is about 3/16".

Thoughts?

[glassman]

While you loose torque (a little) on one hand, i believe the polyurethane to dissipate harmonic (wave) energy.....I mean if you placed your whole driveline on a sponge, you'd probably have no vibrations....

[Roberts68]

Glass man, is that proven or just a seat of the pants "torque sensing" observation?

That sounds snide but It is a sincere question because I do not know. And you have sparked my curiosity.

Does Poly or a rubber mount actually lose, or absorb torque?

I would think not, that it would only dampen the inrush of torque being applied to the structure. All the torque, or rotational forces at work are going to get to their fullest extent of allowable movent in due time are they not?

[Track Junky]

I personally do not like or use solid mounts. I do believe that the poly's absorb harmonics which is why I prefer them.

[Sieg]

The most annoying vibration feedback I'm getting now is in my right foot which tells me motor mounts.

The concern is the steering box clearance.

Are the urethane mounts rigid enough to keep the header from contacting the steering box?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-p23Dmm2/0/XL/i-p23Dmm2-XL.jpg

..........oops! Just realized I forgot the F'n idler arm! :sieg:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-sDgdTCG/0/XL/i-sDgdTCG-XL.jpg

[GregWeld]

Just burn it.








:D

[Track Junky]

Toss the headers and get some that fit right. Who makes those?

[Sieg]

Just burn it.








:D

Tried it..........epic fail............again.

[Sieg]

Toss the headers and get some that fit right. Who makes those?

Doug's D368's..........they fit right.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9s6ZtPV/1/XL/i-9s6ZtPV-XL.jpg

[Flash68]

In an effort to neutralize the little vibe that's left I'm going to replace the right side Moroso solid motor mount with an Energy Suspension urethane mount and see if that has any neutralizing effect. I'm leaving the left side mount as the header to steering box clearance is about 3/16".

Thoughts?

Solid mounts in your reverse burnout street car? Interesting..... :popcorn2:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

The most annoying vibration feedback I'm getting now is in my right foot which tells me motor mounts.

The concern is the steering box clearance.

Are the urethane mounts rigid enough to keep the header from contacting the steering box?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-p23Dmm2/0/XL/i-p23Dmm2-XL.jpg

..........oops! Just realized I forgot the F'n idler arm! :sieg:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-sDgdTCG/0/XL/i-sDgdTCG-XL.jpg

any witness marks?

Take another look, is there any part of the engine/trans touching the body? Trans bellhousing bolts? The ones on the drivers side.

Solid mounts transmit alot of NVH.

[Sieg]

Solid mounts in your reverse burnout street car? Interesting..... :popcorn2:

http://www.acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/finger.gif


:cheers:

[Sieg]

any witness marks?

Take another look, is there any part of the engine/trans touching the body? Trans bellhousing bolts? The ones on the drivers side.

Solid mounts transmit a lot of NVH.
Just to clarify regarding witness marks......the motor is still solid mounted.

The vibe in the throttle is most noticeable when cruising at highway speeds of 60-75 mph while using light on/off throttle inputs to maintain speed or following distance.

To the best of my knowledge there are no contact points as I clearanced/smoothed the firewall when I installed the transmission and I've had it out once after the initial install and there's good clearance around the bellhousing bolts.

No witness marks on the steering box or idler arm.

I've 'heard' the urethane mounts are pretty rigid but those clearances are pretty tight, thus why I'm leaning to replacing the right side only and see if anything changes.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

even if you change one it won't make much difference since the other side is solid mounted. It would if you had a hinge or spring mount that will flex.

One of the ways to find the frequency of the vibration and with some mathematical calculations you can determine if its engine, pulley or rotational issue. A simple tool for measuring the vibration frequency is the sirometer you can get one from Briggs & Stratton shops.

We use to use them to determine and narrow down causes of vibrations in Dodge diesel trucks.

[SSLance]

I have newish poly mounts on both sides in my car and I have witness marks where my header contacts my steering shaft...which has over a half inch clearance when sitting static.

Being all too familiar with solid mounts to cure clearance issues on other cars, I'm tempted to say you might need to learn to live with the vibration if they are the cause. You've gots some tight spaces there...

[GregWeld]

Funny how we try to turn a 45 year old Chevrolet into a Rolls Royce....

[Sieg]

Funny how we try to turn a 45 year old Chevrolet into a Rolls Royce....

What?............I couldn't hear a word you said over the exhaust.

[SSLance]

Funny how we try to turn a 45 year old Chevrolet into a Rolls Royce....


We do it because we can...

[Payton King]

Looking at the front of the motor it will rotate counter clockwise under load. If you have room for it to move up slightly you would not have issues. Not sure how much it would move under a motor braking situation in the opposite direction.

Remember back in the day putting a chain on the driver's side of drag cars and keeping the rubber motor mounts?

[Sieg]

Payton - I haven't ruled a limiting strap out. :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

The polys have an internal lock for over travel. The amount of torque time is very little, you can compensate with an intake tornado plate. OR just put your foot in it farther.

[intocarss]

If you don't want any vibrations....... buy a Lexus :G-Dub:

[Sieg]

If you don't want any vibrations....... buy a Lexus :G-Dub:

Aren't those made by Prius?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
:bitchslap:

[Vegas69]

Funny how we try to turn a 45 year old Chevrolet into a Rolls Royce....

And end up with the refinement of an 84 Citation.

[intocarss]

Aren't those made by Prius?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
:bitchslap:Saw a black Prius with old school red and orange flames the other night.:disgusted:

[Sieg]

Had a little time to do some investigative videoing. Why? Simply because I've never seen what's happening in these areas of the car.........in 25 years.

Nothing real exciting, with the exception of the brake check @ 3:34 in the front suspension video.......at least it was for my daughter. :unibrow:

oTOBaHDPXh8

EqujQNtVdKk

[Spiffav8]

Cool to see all that in action and it's nice to know that you've put it together properly.

[Sieg]

Cool to see all that in action and it's nice to know that you've put it together properly.
Primary reason was to check the range of suspension travel. Front was as expected, rear was much more than it feels like.

Also appears that reverse eye leaf springs or a 4-link would resolve my pinion angle related vibration. Those lowering blocks reduce the u-joint working angles and create too much leverage on the springs thus adding to pinion deflection.

[Vegas69]

You should really tear that front suspension apart and detail it. On second thought, why be a conformist with a car that doesn't move. ha ha ha

[Sieg]

You should really tear that front suspension apart and detail it. On second thought, why be a conformist with a car that doesn't move. ha ha ha
Doesn't move? I'm driving it 5-6 times a week on average. There's also a spare subframe sitting in the garage. You really need to have a couple kids to better understand. :twak:

.........until the rains come. It's not that the car is that nice, I just don't need a reckless driving ticket. :sieg:

[Vegas69]

I was talking about the list of bozos in the jack stand class...

[Sieg]

I was talking about the list of bozos in the jack stand class...
I figured so..........You still need a couple kids. :unibrow:

[GregWeld]

You should really tear that front suspension apart and detail it. On second thought, why be a conformist with a car that doesn't move. ha ha ha



Too bad it's another poopie Camaro or I'd have a whole basket full of cast off parts... Guess I'll have to give 'em to Basher instead.

[Sieg]

Too bad it's another poopie Camaro or I'd have a whole basket full of cast off parts... Guess I'll have to give 'em to Basher instead.

Proof that 60 Sucks!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

haaaa haaaaa

[DBasher]

60 may suck but knowing Greg doesn't!

Sieg what's the bushing looking thing next to the sway bar mount?

:EmoteClueless:
Dan

[Sieg]

60 may suck but knowing Greg doesn't!

Sieg what's the bushing looking thing next to the sway bar mount?

:EmoteClueless:
Dan
Agreed, the entertainment value is off the charts and to date he hasn't got me throw in jail. :D

The bushing 'thingy' is classified as a sleeve and clamp in the factory assembly manual. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Few basics lately........the #3 plug cap started arcing to the header tube and I decided it was time to install an AEM A/F gauge in the system to see how close my seat of the pants carb tuning had been.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-C9CbTgh/0/L/i-C9CbTgh-L.jpg

Accel ceramic caps FTW!
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fGCPZGN/0/L/i-fGCPZGN-L.jpg

Preparing for surgery.........
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-D2psZD4/0/X2/i-D2psZD4-X2.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vzxWzNN/0/L/i-vzxWzNN-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-C9FNH98/0/L/i-C9FNH98-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-pFV58wT/0/L/i-pFV58wT-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-QvbDNrz/0/L/i-QvbDNrz-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xX55nBD/0/X2/i-xX55nBD-X2.jpg

[Sieg]

The sensor was the easy part. Locating the gauge involve a little more thought and fabrication......

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DLv4Cwb/0/X2/i-DLv4Cwb-X2.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-L2CQBDZ/0/X2/i-L2CQBDZ-X2.jpg

Mock up
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-NWdn8VR/0/X2/i-NWdn8VR-X2.jpg

Rustoleum Hammered Metal Black applied.......fair warning it's far from black, more of a dark charcoal. There's a repaint in my future.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-czRXsgR/0/X2/i-czRXsgR-X2.jpg

All systems go!
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-gBFsSX2/0/X2/i-gBFsSX2-X2.jpg

[GregWeld]

Nicely played.


I've never heard of the ceramic boots before. That's an awesome solution to a problem a lot of guys have!

So here's the thing I've discovered about AF for what it's worth. "It all depends". LOL

It all depends on if you're just trying to make some artificial number - versus giving the motor what it wants. Idle still should be tuned for highest vacuum reading possible and highest RPM's. When the motor is getting the fuel it needs it will respond. End of story. Whatever that "number is A/F wise" is what it is. I've seen lots of people make the mistake (more with EFI) trying to "make" the car run on some A/F number someone told them. With all these motors being different combos - there isn't a magic number... because there's so many other factors that influence the combustion process.

Where these A/F meters are helpful (IMHO) is jetting on the big end of things. We used to use timing slips and try to tune for MPH... which is what told us if we were going the right way (OR NOT!). Now a guy could go out and check for lean or fat condition by making a WOT pull on the freeway and a quick glance at the meter will give him the info. Sweet.

The harder part I think would be trying to tune for freeway cruising... with a carb you just don't have the ability to lean it out in an area of throttle / load like you can with EFI.

[Sieg]

Nicely played.


I've never heard of the ceramic boots before. That's an awesome solution to a problem a lot of guys have!

So here's the thing I've discovered about AF for what it's worth. "It all depends". LOL

It all depends on if you're just trying to make some artificial number - versus giving the motor what it wants. Idle still should be tuned for highest vacuum reading possible and highest RPM's. When the motor is getting the fuel it needs it will respond. End of story. Whatever that "number is A/F wise" is what it is. I've seen lots of people make the mistake (more with EFI) trying to "make" the car run on some A/F number someone told them. With all these motors being different combos - there isn't a magic number... because there's so many other factors that influence the combustion process.

Where these A/F meters are helpful (IMHO) is jetting on the big end of things. We used to use timing slips and try to tune for MPH... which is what told us if we were going the right way (OR NOT!). Now a guy could go out and check for lean or fat condition by making a WOT pull on the freeway and a quick glance at the meter will give him the info. Sweet.

The harder part I think would be trying to tune for freeway cruising... with a carb you just don't have the ability to lean it out in an area of throttle / load like you can with EFI.
Thank you.

Those ceramic caps are priceless! Reading the reviews multiple people were complaining about the cost.......$22 shipped via Amazon prime. WTF! Consider the alternative cures people. :lol:

Totally agree on "it all depends." I've always tuned by feel and plug/exhaust color because that's all I've had and always try to error on the rich side.....as a kid my 2 stroke motorcycles taught me the value in erroring rich. :D

I was very happy to see the idle and cruise was in the ballpark.

It also showed my front float level is low as it goes lean off the chart under braking. Quick bump up on the level and possibly install the jet extensions will cure that.

Regarding tuning for cruise, that will require some thought, though with the Holley Ultra HP it is very tunable. idle & high speed air correction jets, pump cam profiles, pump shooters, power valves, and tunable metering blocks that allow power valve/idle/emulsion fine tuning.

What I haven't found is a good chart that shows how all the circuits overlap through the throttle range.

This is the chart I always referenced to dial in my bikes and a similar chart for Holley carbs would help my visual brain immensely.
http://justkdx.dirtrider.net/images/graph.jpg

Here's a pump cam profile chart that looks somewhat like EFI tuning......LOL
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/files/attachments/1194960610-HolleyAccelPumpCams4777.jpg

[Track Junky]

Nice looking gauge Sieg. That's an upgrade I'm looking forward to getting to. Definitely a great tuning tool. What kind of readings are you getting in the upper rpm range

[Sieg]

Nice looking gauge Sieg. That's an upgrade I'm looking forward to getting to. Definitely a great tuning tool. What kind of readings are you getting in the upper rpm range
Thanks. I'm looking forward to playing with it. Only had a chance for a quick loop (6-7 miles) last night and not enough open road to really exploit 3rd or 4th gear. In 3rd around 4-5K the richest I saw was 10.8-11.4.......I think. A GoPro would be real handy to record data.

[intocarss]

A wise old tuner once told me "If you ain't melting pistons or fouling the plugs....You're GOOD to go"

Awesome gauge mount and fab work Siegmunster :RunninDog:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

nice work seegie

[GregWeld]

A wise old tuner once told me "If you ain't melting pistons or fouling the plugs....You're GOOD to go"

Awesome gauge mount and fab work Siegmunster :RunninDog:



Brilliant quote right there! LOL


I used to tell guys -- Lean for a day.... Rich for life.... and most of 'em would just look at me with their eyes crossed. My Brother in Law found out what running a blower, and lean, means.

[Sieg]

nice work seegie

Thanks Vinnie! :D

A wise old tuner once told me "If you ain't melting pistons or fouling the plugs....You're GOOD to go"

Awesome gauge mount and fab work Siegmunster :RunninDog:

Word Jerdawgy!

Thanks

Brilliant quote right there! LOL


I used to tell guys -- Lean for a day.... Rich for life.... and most of 'em would just look at me with their eyes crossed. My Brother in Law found out what running a blower, and lean, means.

I never holed a piston on any of my 2-strokes but I fouled a few plugs. Frugality is a valuable tuning tool. :D

It was nice to see the initial gauge readings were all on the rich side with the exception of the front float level inducing a lean. Now I can get a little more risque with my tuning. :unibrow:

The rain season has commenced in the Pacific Northwet so test and tune opportunities will most likely be few and far between. :bur2:

[glassman]

Brilliant quote right there! LOL


I used to tell guys -- Lean for a day.... Rich for life.... and most of 'em would just look at me with their eyes crossed. My Brother in Law found out what running a blower, and lean, means.

You can apply that to Investing102 also....great quote

[glassman]

Sieg, do you get that thing out on the track at all? And the GoPro would be a second set of eyes? stayin on the pavement is kinda important if your into that sorta thing:walkingdog:

Super nice tight work BTW, love you car as you know....

[Sieg]

Sieg, do you get that thing out on the track at all? And the GoPro would be a second set of eyes? stayin on the pavement is kinda important if your into that sorta thing:walkingdog:

Super nice tight work BTW, love you car as you know....

Thanks.

To date it's never been tracked.......not even at the local school which I can't say that about a few of my dirt bikes back in the day. :D

[Payton King]

Did you use to work for a circus? Great welding Mr. Contortionist.

[Sieg]

I found an article that helped me out a LOT!
http://www.rodauthority.com/tech-stories/engine/modern-tuning-techniques-for-holley-carburetors/

So I read this article a few times and drove the car to get a feel for the transition points then started making changes ONE at a time and test driving.

My goals were to get idle in the 13.5-14.0 range, cruise in the 13.8 - 15.3 range, and WOT in the 12-13 range. Before adjustments I was seeing 12.5-13.4 idle, 12-13 cruise, and 10.8-11.5 WOT.

First change on the Holley Ultra HP 650 was an idle air bypass adjustment Which gained a few 1/10ths at idle. I have to add now that I have this a/f system.......I should have bought it a long time ago. It is so nice to make a 1/16th or 1/8th turn adjustment and see immediate results.

Second: changed the orange accel pump cams back to the lean stock pink cams. Picked up a couple 1/10ths

Third: changed the main jets from what I knew were rich 72's back to 70's (carb came with 70's) and another positive result but still rich in the cruise mode.

Fourth: changed the primary mains to 68's, another gain, still rich.

Fifth: changed to idle air bleeds to 73's from stock 70's, that got it in the ballpark of 13.5-15.0 in the 2,00-2,400 rpm cruise. In 2nd and 3rd gear at 3K it will go 15-15.9 which bothers me a little, but it's only for a second or two and the gauge spikes all over the place so trying to nail the average is a little tough without data acquisition.

Sixth: changed the accel pump cams from stock pink to red (slightly leaner than orange) as by leaning the overall circuit it developed a hollow off idle throttle response and a little stumble on light clutch engagement. The red cams were a big improvement.

End result is idle 13.5-13.8, cruise 13.8-15, WOT 11.7-12.5. There appears to be some very brief spikes depending on throttle application input speed and rpm but it's much closer and it runs very good overall. Never a hint of pinging or detonation. The Ultra HP has adjustable metering blocks so further fine tuning can be accomplished via idle restriction circuits, power valve circuit, and emulsion circuits via jets in the metering block.

FWIW - It's damn tough to monitor a sensitive gauge and while hammer the throttle and shifting gears. :sieg: :lol:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2jV6tVj/1/XL/i-2jV6tVj-XL.jpg

[Sieg]

:ups:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DKzs8J9/1/L/i-DKzs8J9-L.jpg

It really is the simple things in life that bring the greatest pleasure. :D

More pro-tinkering toys to install now that the rains have come to the Pacific Northwet.

After SEMA a front suspension tune up and installation of Dynalite rears discs will commence once I figure out the best e-brake cable connection option.

[Ricochet]

:ups:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DKzs8J9/1/L/i-DKzs8J9-L.jpg

It really is the simple things in life that bring the greatest pleasure. :D

More pro-tinkering toys to install now that the rains have come to the Pacific Northwet.

After SEMA a front suspension tune up and installation of Dynalite rears discs will commence once I figure out the best e-brake cable connection option.

It's all in the details Scott! It's always (well sometimes anyways...:confused18: ) fun fine tuning and seeing the results. Good job! In regards to the E-Brake cables - look at Control Cables. They have a multitude of options and great to work with. I just bought all my stuff from them. Talk with Greg.
http://www.controlcables.com/

[Sieg]

It's all in the details Scott! It's always (well sometimes anyways...:confused18: ) fun fine tuning and seeing the results. Good job! In regards to the E-Brake cables - look at Control Cables. They have a multitude of options and great to work with. I just bought all my stuff from them. Talk with Greg.
http://www.controlcables.com/
Thanks Brent, I followed that link when you posted it a while back, didn't have a personal contact though, I'll give Greg a call and see if we can create a solution for my application. :thumbsup:

[Rick D]

I love it when the :ups: or white truck shows up!!

[Sieg]

All the UPS presents are installed!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5q5BtcQ/1/L/i-5q5BtcQ-L.jpg

Next!

[DOOM]

Niceeeeeeeeeee!!!! Whats next!?

[Sieg]

Niceeeeeeeeeee!!!! Whats next!?

Mario I'll reserve comment until after SEMA. :D

[GregWeld]

Niceeeeeeeeeee!!!! Whats next!?





A torque wrench would come in handy.... :slingshot:

[Sieg]

A torque wrench would come in handy.... :slingshot:

:smiley_smack:

It's getting worse..........

[Vince@Meanstreets]

wrote a song about it, like to hear it, here it goes.... L0NDKtDSxKM

[Sieg]

Killin it tonight aren't ya Vinnie! LOL

Today was pretty much the epic fail of my wrenching career.

Good news is I'm alive to pay for it. :bang:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

its all right. pick yourself up and learn from it. everyone is ok.

[Rick D]

Killin it tonight aren't ya Vinnie! LOL

Today was pretty much the epic fail of my wrenching career.

Good news is I'm alive to pay for it. :bang:

What happened?? Glad your still with us :headscratch: :innocent:

[Sieg]

What happened?? Glad your still with us :headscratch: :innocent:

Let just leave it at it started with this:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-zKtXBXX/0/L/i-zKtXBXX-L.jpg

........and ended up like this:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-GKqSHfW/0/L/i-GKqSHfW-L.jpg

Other than the quarter panel damage it's all repaired as of 10 minutes ago.....:sieg:

[Greg from Aus]

Glad to hear your OK, Now spill the beans on what happened! :twak:

[Sieg]

Glad to hear your OK, Now spill the beans on what happened! :twak:

How about SEMA over a couple frosties? I can probably stretch the story to 3 or 4 frosties. :unibrow:

[Greg from Aus]

How about SEMA over a couple frosties? I can probably stretch the story to 3 or 4 frosties. :unibrow:

Sounds like a plan :thankyou:

[waynieZ]

I'll have to wait for the recap when you guys get back.....

[Sieg]

I'll have to wait for the recap when you guys get back.....
I lost a wheel on my truck..........imagine all the scenarios........none of them are good. :D

[Sieg]

Yesterday Norwood joined some elite company around here in the PT Jackstand Class.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-J98TzFJ/0/L/i-J98TzFJ-L.jpg

46 years ago these weren't bad brakes.........but they are still exceptional emergency brakes. :)

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4SzCgFS/0/L/i-4SzCgFS-L.jpg

But these are a little better.........

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7VJ3Z69/0/XL/i-7VJ3Z69-XL.jpg

Today I hope to get all the details figured out and order the parts tonight.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2qdG8Zd/1/XL/i-2qdG8Zd-XL.jpg

First I'll get backing plates mounted, reinstall the axles, align the calipers with the rotors, check wheel clearance, and finalize e-brake cable lengths so I can order new cables from http://www.controlcables.com/

Then I need to decide how I'll transition and mount the factory brake line on the rear end housing to accept the stainless flex lines. Leaning toward the Wilwood kit 220-7056 http://www.wilwood.com/LineKits/LineKitsProd.aspx?itemno=220-7056 I'm thinking I'll just fab and weld a tab on the axle tube to capture the -3 to 3/8-24 IF fitting and be done with it.

After that I'll get the new residual valve installed and work on refinishing the show side of the Wilwood Dynalite calipers.

[KPC67]

Sieg,
Norwood is looking good. For some reason I have never looked into your thread , I read the first four pages and am intrigued to keep going but when I saw I had another 180 pages to go I realized I would be here for a few days, I skipped to the end so I could see what I am getting into and tell you I like your story.
Talk again once I catch up!

[intocarss]

While your at it, you might as well switch over to Ford ends on that 12 bolt or get Poppa Weld to spring for a 9"

[Vince@Meanstreets]

While your at it, you might as well switch over to Ford ends on that 12 bolt or get Poppa Weld to spring for a 9"

too bad no one makes a reliable bolt on c clip eliminator

[Sieg]

Sieg,
Norwood is looking good. For some reason I have never looked into your thread , I read the first four pages and am intrigued to keep going but when I saw I had another 180 pages to go I realized I would be here for a few days, I skipped to the end so I could see what I am getting into and tell you I like your story.
Talk again once I catch up!

I can summarize the highlights of the project.

Acquiring the car.

Installing stiff and lower springs.

Installing good seats and steering wheel.

Installing a modern wheel and tire package vs the late 70's coolio package.

Installing the close ratio T56 Mag

Installing good front brakes and manual master cylinder.

Upgrading the heads, intake, and carb.

Installing 3:73 rear end ratio.

Without a doubt the best part of the entire project is the constant memory of my now deceased best friend and the vast number of relationships and friendships created along the way........without a doubt! This is reflected in the majority of BS, trash talking, undercutting, and insulting posts that compromise 80+% of the 1839 posts. :)

Selling this car would be like selling a major portion of my soul. How do you calculate a price? :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

While your at it, you might as well switch over to Ford ends on that 12 bolt or get Poppa Weld to spring for a 9"

Why? I drive it like an 80 year old. :sieg:

too bad no one makes a reliable bolt on c clip eliminator

If I was going to track it more than once or twice a year at best.....I'd toss a Ford 9" in it........better yet I'd just buy a sorted track car and beat the crap out it! :lol:

[intocarss]

Why? I drive it like an 80 year old. :sieg:



And I almost beeeeeelieve you

:snapout:

[Sieg]

Intentionally slow paced day today cleaning axle tube ends, mocking up backing plates and hub to axle fitment, and a little head scratching regarding the best brake line routing.

Also had to flip a caliper bracket on the backing plate because they were set up for non-staggered shock car. Thankfully all that required was pressing out the splined threaded inserts in the bracket, reversing, reinstalling, and cutting a new spacer for the e-brake cable bracket.

I also picked up some 5/32" copper ground wire to use mocking up line routing and lengths thanks to a tip I read here. :thumbsup:

The rotors index on the 1/2" wheel studs, if you're running smaller studs Wilwood has indexing rings available to locate the rotors on the axles.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WVkPRDQ/1/XL/i-WVkPRDQ-XL.jpg

A few mock up shots of the new micro drums. :)
Right side
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TkNCL5G/1/L/i-TkNCL5G-L.jpg

Left side
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RXpcwSm/1/L/i-RXpcwSm-L.jpg

[ccracin]

Looking Good Seig! I like your 1 project at a time approach. Other than when building a car from Scratch, this has to be the best way to go. You get to continue driving and having fun while making it better and better! This is a great blueprint! Keep up the good work.

[WSSix]

You forgot to mention the car nearly burning to the ground in the highlights reel.

Glad you're still making progress with the car, Sieg.

[efs69]

If you don't want to weld you can use this band clamp. I got mine from CCP.

[GregWeld]

If you don't want to weld you can use this band clamp. I got mine from CCP.

The Siegmiester is a masterba.... I mean master welder!!

[Sieg]

You forgot to mention the car nearly burning to the ground in the highlights reel.

Glad you're still making progress with the car, Sieg.

That's a lowlight ya wingnut!

Along with the time I exceeded the limits of the stock brakes coming up to a T intersection off a freeway ramp shortly after I installed the T56, two awesome corners that I've been through hundreds of times leading up to the T........then I realized how much more speed I carried of the last apex..........120 yds to the T........cars lined everywhere in the intersection except in the right turn lane and the light had just change green........I had an angel on my shoulder during this event......the fronts weren't locking nor stopping thanks to the new 200TW tires and I was modulating the rears in and out of lock up and scrubbed just enough speed to pitch it into the 90* turn and throttle out without hitting any of the row of cars to my left.......it was literally inches from clipping someone with the rear quarter. :wacko:

My other option was going square into a K wall at 30+ mph.

I went straight home and called Tobin at Kore3 discussed the situation and ordered front brakes.

[CURVES]

That's a lowlight ya wingnut!

Along with the time I exceeded the limits of the stock brakes coming up to a T intersection off a freeway ramp shortly after I installed the T56, two awesome corners that I've been through hundreds of times leading up to the T........then I realized how much more speed I carried of the last apex..........120 yds to the T........cars lined everywhere in the intersection except in the right turn lane and the light had just change green........I had an angel on my shoulder during this event......the fronts weren't locking nor stopping thanks to the new 200TW tires and I was modulating the rears in and out of lock up and scrubbed just enough speed to pitch it into the 90* turn and throttle out without hitting any of the row of cars to my left.......it was literally inches from clipping someone with the rear quarter. :wacko:

My other option was going square into a K wall at 30+ mph.

I went straight home and called Tobin at Kore3 discussed the situation and ordered front brakes.

Dang......
Where's the GoPro when you need it:lol:

[Sieg]

If you don't want to weld you can use this band clamp. I got mine from CCP.
I thought about a clamp but it's too easy to fab a bracket and plug weld it on the tube.

The Siegmiester is a masterba.... I mean master welder!!
Knuckle Dragger! :warning:


I'm also toying with the idea of eliminating the lines on the rear axle altogether and running hard line out to the inner frame rails and dropping flex lines down to the calipers.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-KKd9fv4/0/M/i-KKd9fv4-M.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-zfMfkQn/0/M/i-zfMfkQn-M.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dmKvxtm/0/M/i-dmKvxtm-M.jpg

The tube mounted brackets would be too easy though..........:headscratch:

[Che70velle]

Sieg, I ran my rear line back to my crossmember, T'd it on the crossmember, and ran individual hard lines out to each side of my frame, before going to braided flex lines to each caliper. I have too much going on bracket wise, on my axle tubes to worry about running lines, plus to me, it looks much cleaner keeping the lines off the axle. It's also easier to pull the rear end out of your car, with no brake lines strapped to it. Just my 2 pesos...

[GregWeld]

If it was mine -- I'd just run hard lines from the T all the way on the axle tube to the caliper --- with a SINGLE braided line from the body to the T on the axle....


If I was YOU ---- I'd haul it down to Mark at Bent... :D :popcorn2: :whenitsdone: :poke: :G-Dub:

[Sieg]

If it was mine -- I'd just run hard lines from the T all the way on the axle tube to the caliper --- with a SINGLE braided line from the body to the T on the axle....


If I was YOU ---- I'd haul it down to Mark at Bent... :D :popcorn2: :whenitsdone: :poke: :G-Dub:

I'd hate to obligate Mark to put lipstick on a pig. :sieg:

One option is to tweak the existing lines on the tubes towards the offset calipers and tack the brackets on and call it good. Wilwood recommends a 14" line kit for it but that length appears to be excessively generous, 8"-10" is what I'm guessing. The keys are to stay away from exhaust pipes, tires, and bump stops or other pinch points with the floating lines.

I like the idea of running hard lines all the way, with the fixed calipers it's not an issue, and it's 2 less connections. I may have enough line left in stock but with my luck I'll be 3" short and have to buy another 25' roll. :D

Do you know a source for the coiled line sheathing? The OEM will probably be a couple inches short of ideal.

Regarding using a braided drop line, I'm wondering if the expansion in OEM rubber line might actually be desirable with respect to feel/modulation in my manual system. (I think Tobin and I discussed it at one point) My initial thought was to leave the OEM line and see how it felt and performed when I test and set the bias adjustment. Then replace it if needed.

[Sieg]

Sieg, I ran my rear line back to my crossmember, T'd it on the crossmember, and ran individual hard lines out to each side of my frame, before going to braided flex lines to each caliper. I have too much going on bracket wise, on my axle tubes to worry about running lines, plus to me, it looks much cleaner keeping the lines off the axle. It's also easier to pull the rear end out of your car, with no brake lines strapped to it. Just my 2 pesos...

Thanks for the input Scott. Worthy points of consideration. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Dang......
Where's the GoPro when you need it:lol:

It would have been a great sales tool for anyone selling brake upgrades!

As is no video except to this day I can still close my eyes and replay the event in HD. :D

[GregWeld]

Regarding using a braided drop line, I'm wondering if the expansion in OEM rubber line might actually be desirable with respect to feel/modulation in my manual system. (I think Tobin and I discussed it at one point) My initial thought was to leave the OEM line and see how it felt and performed when I test and set the bias adjustment. Then replace it if needed.



Depends on how old that stock rubber line is --- and remember that the disc brakes need more pressure to operate properly.

I'd just run that axle line in 3/16" brake line that you can buy right down at the auto parts store... they sell it in various lengths. It's not SS - but WTF -- you're not building a Ridler car like Mario. It's easier to bend --- and should come with 45* and ends that might go straight into the T and the other end into the caliper. That or whack the caliper end and put a 37* single on it to a -3.... don't forget to put the tube nut on etc BEFORE you flair... Been there and done that DOH!!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I'm wondering if the expansion in OEM rubber line might actually be desirable with respect to feel/modulation in my manual system. (I think Tobin and I discussed it at one point) My initial thought was to leave the OEM line and see how it felt and performed when I test and set the bias adjustment. Then replace it if needed.

Thats what your master if for and not your hose. If you are feeling it due to the hose Im gonna put a pea between your matress and keep you from sleeping at night. You can run hard all the way to the caliper. But put in a slack bend in it.

[Sieg]

Depends on how old that stock rubber line is --- and remember that the disc brakes need more pressure to operate properly.

I'd just run that axle line in 3/16" brake line that you can buy right down at the auto parts store... they sell it in various lengths. It's not SS - but WTF -- you're not building a Ridler car like Mario. It's easier to bend --- and should come with 45* and ends that might go straight into the T and the other end into the caliper. That or whack the caliper end and put a 37* single on it to a -3.... don't forget to put the tube nut on etc BEFORE you flair... Been there and done that DOH!!
The rubber line has been replaced.

I still have enough nickel/copper line left from doing the front system.......Awesome material to work with and it has a nice patina to it. Even had straight ends for the calipers and 37* flares in stock!

Just need to find new protective sheathing.

[rickpaw]

If it was mine -- I'd just run hard lines from the T all the way on the axle tube to the caliper --- with a SINGLE braided line from the body to the T on the axle....


Will running hard lines all the way to the calipers prevent them from being removed for maintenance (pads/rotors change)? Or there's enough flex in the lines to move the calipers away?

[SSLance]

don't forget to put the tube nut on etc BEFORE you flair... Been there and done that DOH!!



And here I thought I was the only one to do that... :underchair:

My hard lines on my axle tube are beat to hell after 5 years of exhaust hitting them, tie down straps, and just general abuse...plus I've never replaced the soft line from the chassis to the axle.

I like the solid line to the frame rails and soft lines down to the caliper option, I'm going to look to see if that is possible for me when I redo my back lines. IF it's possible routing wise, sure seems like a better option than running them along the axle tubes.

[WSSix]

Sieg, Right Stuff Detailing has the brake line armor or spring wrap you're looking for.

Tu, it does make it more of a pain for servicing to have hard line going to the individual calipers, but if you design it with a bend in the line and maybe an easily removable hold down near the caliper, it's not so bad. C2/3 Corvettes were this way stock.

[Vegas69]

You definitely want soft line from the end of the axle to the caliper. That is, unless you like to bleed brakes every time you pull a caliper.

[Sieg]

Caliper and drop flex lines, rock guard sheath on order.........

and.........

GW Del-a-lum upper and lower control arm bushing and offset control arm shafts.

Quick Fuel 5.5 and 6.0 power valves and set of Buna rubber float/metering block gaskets.

Damn, even Pro Tinkering is getting expensive! :D

[SSLance]

"Project creep"... or also known as "WhileImatititis"

Next thing you know you'll be pulling the engine to detail the front suspension in a project that started as a simple electric fan install... ;)

[GregWeld]

You definitely want soft line from the end of the axle to the caliper. That is, unless you like to bleed brakes every time you pull a caliper.



It's not a f'n pseudo Black race car.... how often do you think he's going to drop the caliper to change pads? He lives in the PacificNorthWET -- SOB car doesn't get 1500 miles a year....

[Vegas69]

I learned to like things serviceable with my wannabe race car. I also learned to do it right the first time. :mock:

[Sieg]

It's not a f'n pseudo Black race car.... how often do you think he's going to drop the caliper to change pads? He lives in the PacificNorthWET -- SOB car doesn't get 1500 miles a year....

Whoah big boy...........I put over 3K on it last year and that doesn't count the 800 in your trailer. :mock:

[Sieg]

"Project creep"... or also known as "WhileImatititis"

Next thing you know you'll be pulling the engine to detail the front suspension in a project that started as a simple electric fan install... ;)

Oh it gets worse Lance........I have a spare subframe sitting in the garage. :unibrow:

[GregWeld]

Whoah big boy...........I put over 3K on it last year and that doesn't count the 800 in your trailer. :mock:



Thanks for making my point --- that's 10 years worth of driving before needing to replace the pads. And you're not tracking it (yet).... so it's just street driving. I just don't see the need to make it that serviceable any more than a stock application. BTW - you should bleed the brakes on a car like this about once a year since the fluid is hygroscopic and absorbs moisture - even more so where you live....

There! I got the last word! LOL

[Sieg]

Will running hard lines all the way to the calipers prevent them from being removed for maintenance (pads/rotors change)? Or there's enough flex in the lines to move the calipers away?

I looked at it today and with the factory tab clamps on the tubes you can open them up a free-up the lines enough to lift the calipers.........it's just not as convenient or forgiving as pulling the caliper and hanging it wherever with a wire hook or bungee.

[Sieg]

Thanks for making my point --- that's 10 years worth of driving before needing to replace the pads. And you're not tracking it (yet).... so it's just street driving. I just don't see the need to make it that serviceable any more than a stock application. BTW - you should bleed the brakes on a car like this about once a year since the fluid is hygroscopic and absorbs moisture - even more so where you live....

There! I got the last word! LOL

Maybe I should just get a Prius.........but only when they come out with a minivan model.

Regarding brake fluid........you're talking to an old dirt bike rider Pappy......3 times a year on those, maybe more on the rear if you're a brake dragger. :action-smiley-027:

[GregWeld]

I post for the greater good of the community --- some folks know and do these things -- many don't...

[GregWeld]

Maybe I should just get a Prius.........




You and Vince been talking??

[Sieg]

You and Vince been talking??

That nutjob wants a Volt! :D

[Vince@Meanstreets]

That nutjob wants a Volt! :D

git ya some of that!!!

had to build one to match my style.....

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/attachments/f28/9021d1287951310-chevy-volt-bonneville-flats-bvolt.jpg

[Che70velle]

Now were talking! What's the MPG, Vince?

[Che70velle]

And here I thought I was the only one to do that... :underchair:

My hard lines on my axle tube are beat to hell after 5 years of exhaust hitting them, tie down straps, and just general abuse...plus I've never replaced the soft line from the chassis to the axle.

I like the solid line to the frame rails and soft lines down to the caliper option, I'm going to look to see if that is possible for me when I redo my back lines. IF it's possible routing wise, sure seems like a better option than running them along the axle tubes.


Lance, it might even keep a little bit of unwanted radiant heat from the rear end, out of the brake fluid.

[Sieg]

git ya some of that!!!

had to build one to match my style.....
I have some of those rivets they used on that front salt sweeper left over from when I installed the gunnel guard on my river boat............let me know if you need them. :)

[Sieg]

Lance, it might even keep a little bit of unwanted radiant heat from the rear end, out of the brake fluid.

Could be a toss up. Heat rises so with the line mounted high in the axle well out of airflow vs on the axle inside the rock guard in the airflow the heat from the exhaust may affect the upper line more than the heat off the rear end housing. Just guessing.......and no, I'm not going to to perform the experiment. :D

[Vegas69]

Thanks for making my point --- that's 10 years worth of driving before needing to replace the pads. And you're not tracking it (yet).... so it's just street driving. I just don't see the need to make it that serviceable any more than a stock application. BTW - you should bleed the brakes on a car like this about once a year since the fluid is hygroscopic and absorbs moisture - even more so where you live....

There! I got the last word! LOL

When I did something like this, it was a guarantee that the axle seal or bearing would go out. :D Brake bleed every year, bologna. Admit you are wrong for the first time in your life. ha

[Sieg]

When I did something like this, it was a guarantee that the axle seal or bearing would go out. :D

WORD!

Brake bleed every year, bologna. Admit you are wrong for the first time in your life. ha

:popcorn2:

[GregWeld]

When you have a lift --- and a compressor --- and an air driven bleeder.... this is a one man process that takes all of about 20 minutes. It takes that long because I have to set up the ladder to go up and fill the master when the car is on the lift... Did I mention that I've been retired for 23 years which means I have nothing to do all day.... and my **** is all super sanitary underneath?? That means you clean and wipe and prep constantly... service is just a small part of that. I also never use an open can of fluid.... buy fluid in small containers and toss it after it's been opened.


You GIRLS need to raise your game.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I have some of those rivets they used on that front salt sweeper left over from when I installed the gunnel guard on my river boat............let me know if you need them. :)

those are custom titanium ARP quarter turn fasteners.
:action-smiley-027:

[Dirtmod08]

While prepping the car for yesterday for today's trip to Portland I noticed a loose power steering bracket bolt. The car still has modified OEM brackets because the car had 461 fuelie heads with no accessory accommodation. When resetting tension and tightening things up I noticed how much flex was in the brackets and jimmy-rigged a quick "Springtuckey" fix to the system.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-gx5QhSs/0/L/IMAG3953-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4gpn4R8/0/L/IMAG3955-L.jpg

Negative style points but the flex is gone and the pulleys line up well. :D

Looking forward to meeting up with Dale at the Beaches Cruise In this afternoon. :thumbsup:

I scrolled through all 188 pages today. Build is very interesting, but one loose end is bothering me - besides you not painting your power steering pump, lol.
I had the same problem with stock power steering pump brackets, so I installed a power steering pump with a remote reservoir setup on a 73 Camaro I had. It helped with the stability of the pump, and appearance.
These are the only pics I can find, but I'm sure you've seen the same setup in better cars.
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb241/dirtmod08/73%20Camaro/DSCN0920.jpg
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb241/dirtmod08/73%20Camaro/DSCN0957.jpg

[Vegas69]

When you have a lift --- and a compressor --- and an air driven bleeder.... this is a one man process that takes all of about 20 minutes. It takes that long because I have to set up the ladder to go up and fill the master when the car is on the lift... Did I mention that I've been retired for 23 years which means I have nothing to do all day.... and my **** is all super sanitary underneath?? That means you clean and wipe and prep constantly... service is just a small part of that. I also never use an open can of fluid.... buy fluid in small containers and toss it after it's been opened.


You GIRLS need to raise your game.

You are right, I was wrong.

Just to introduce you to the concept. :D

[GregWeld]

You are right, I was wrong.

Just to introduce you to the concept. :D




One day I hope you're lucky enough to grasp the concept of owning multiple cars over multiple years - now stretching into decades -- a large well equipped workspace... and too much time on your hands. That last part being the most important aspect. :D

[Vegas69]

I'll take the luck and team it with discipline, flexibility, and faith. Only three cars huh?

[Sieg]

those are custom titanium ARP quarter turn fasteners.
:action-smiley-027:

On a Volt.........What a total waste of coin. :mock:

[Sieg]

I scrolled through all 188 pages today. Build is very interesting, but one loose end is bothering me - besides you not painting your power steering pump, lol.
I had the same problem with stock power steering pump brackets, so I installed a power steering pump with a remote reservoir setup on a 73 Camaro I had. It helped with the stability of the pump, and appearance.
These are the only pics I can find, but I'm sure you've seen the same setup in better cars.
You mean you waded through 178 pages of BS! :D

It's a nostalgic patina pump that hasn't let me down............yet. :knokwood:
When it does it will definitely be upgraded!

:thumbsup:

[Dirtmod08]

You mean you waded through 178 pages of BS! :D

It's a nostalgic patina pump that hasn't let me down............yet. :knokwood:
When it does it will definitely be upgraded!

:thumbsup:

Yes, I did.:popcorn2:

[WSSix]

Custom Works has the brackets to mount a Type 2 pump on the motor in a similar manner. Scroll to the bottom http://customworksperformance.net/suspension.html

Just throwing it out there in case anyone is interested.

[Dirtmod08]

Custom Works has the brackets to mount a Type 2 pump on the motor in a similar manner. Scroll to the bottom http://customworksperformance.net/suspension.html

Just throwing it out there in case anyone is interested.

That's just the bracket I used. HINT: I found mine at a circle track swap meet cheep.:poke:

[KPC67]

This really is a great thread Sieg! There is a lot of good info in here. You keep referring to your car as a budget car which is fine but it really is a killer build. It looks like you are having some fun with it minus the frustrating moments, those just make it worth it in the end
(I think maybe:EmoteClueless: ).
In some of the photos I couldn't help but stop and stare at the picture and think "MAN THAT LOOKS NICE!"

Question: where does a guy get himself some braided wire loom like this?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vRWDxxg/0/L/i-vRWDxxg-L.jpg





Oh! and good thing I didn't un subscribe before page 60 something because then I wouldn't have been able to make this re surface!:mock:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-S33jM8F/0/O/i-S33jM8F.jpg

[Sieg]

Question: where does a guy get himself some braided wire loom like this?

Thank you :thumbsup:

Summit has the braided cover in smaller quantities, here's a link to one of a few diameters:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-890340/overview/

Here's a source for bulk: http://www.wiringproducts.com/expandable-wire-sleeving


Aren't girls great! :D

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WsrfVmW/0/L/i-WsrfVmW-L.jpg

[Dirtmod08]

Question: where does a guy get himself some braided wire loom like this?


I've been looking around at wire loom myself lately. I found this source to have anything I would want to make my looming look professional. They have braided and NOMEX.
http://www.electriduct.com/
http://www.electriduct.com/Nomex-Braided-Sleeving.html

[KPC67]

:thumbsup: Thanks!

[waynieZ]

I've been looking around at wire loom myself lately. I found this source to have anything I would want to make my looming look professional. They have braided and NOMEX.
http://www.electriduct.com/
http://www.electriduct.com/Nomex-Braided-Sleeving.html

Wow they have a ton of different products.
Thnaks

[Sieg]

Back to business......

Decided to stay with hard lines inside stainless 'gravel guard' on the rear end housing with a stainless flex lines to the housing and calipers.

Prepped the calipers for paint
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CGdnWFJ/0/XL/i-CGdnWFJ-XL.jpg

Applied Krylon BBQ paint and about 20 minutes after painting used a razor blade to remove paint from the raised lettering.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-V2tpv3f/0/XL/i-V2tpv3f-XL.jpg

Made these brackets out of 2x2 tubing then decided the base was overkill and cut it in half before plug welding to the tube.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Pqn8zwC/0/XL/i-Pqn8zwC-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Dq9Hkfv/0/XL/i-Dq9Hkfv-XL.jpg

Mockups

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-GPq78gS/0/XL/i-GPq78gS-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Qs4LNkg/0/XL/i-Qs4LNkg-XL.jpg

Hopefully today I'll slip the axles back in and index the backing plates and get them secured, fab the hardlines, mock fit it all again and align the calipers then disassemble and paint, and tomorrow reassemble and bleed the system.

Hopefully......assuming the rotor and caliper alignment doesn't create challenges. :)

[WSSix]

good job, Scott!

[Payton King]

It will pose a challenge, but you will get through it. LOL

And you will be back on the road again...

What pads are you running?

[Sieg]

It will pose a challenge, but you will get through it. LOL

And you will be back on the road again...

What pads are you running?

The offsets were off .394" or so which means I need to fab new spacers for the caliper brackets but that's no biggy.

I'm pretty sure the rears are Wilwood BP-20's and Tobin said those would be near ideal for balance with the Hawk HP+ pads up front. The Dynalite calipers have more clamping force than ideal for the C5 caliper up front so the pad should tame them.

[Sieg]

Progress was slower than I'd hoped but still decent progress. Hard lines were built, drop line installed, axles in, offsets checked and need to be altered -0.394". Funeral out of town tomorrow so I'll get back on it Sunday.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wGCdsXd/0/XL/i-wGCdsXd-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7m7mzws/0/XL/i-7m7mzws-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-QdVcZcn/0/XL/i-QdVcZcn-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-gBXFz48/0/XL/i-gBXFz48-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5B5smqS/0/XL/i-5B5smqS-XL.jpg

[GregWeld]

Please stop!!



LOL



Get it??

[Sieg]

Please stop!!

LOL

Get it??

:confused59:

:sieg:

:twak:

It will have a firm pedal before it rolls. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

There's light at the end of the tunnel! 2 lb. residual valve installed, backing plates located and torqued, caliper brackets shimmed, line brackets painted, lines mounted, wheel clearances verified, Moser C-clip axles are in and the differential refilled. Basically all that's left is to measure e-brake cable lengths and order and bleed the system.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WfwVcwg/0/L/i-WfwVcwg-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Gm9DDmP/0/L/i-Gm9DDmP-L.jpg

I opted to shim with grade 8 washers and one stainless vs the cutting down the aluminum Wilwood spacers.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-pDspCG7/0/L/i-pDspCG7-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fJ4d5mG/0/L/i-fJ4d5mG-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-F5pB22Z/0/L/i-F5pB22Z-L.jpg

While positioning the calipers I noticed one pad didn't want to compress back into the caliper with reasonable force...........so off the calipers came again and I pulled all the pistons and seals figuring if one's questionable the other probably are too.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Z54NfBB/0/L/i-Z54NfBB-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-C4jnwj4/0/L/i-C4jnwj4-L.jpg http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-QgPTk4b/0/L/i-QgPTk4b-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tvHmXW9/0/L/i-tvHmXW9-L.jpg http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-w4S5Z9z/0/L/i-w4S5Z9z-L.jpg

A little buffing with a red Scotchbrite pad and good as new.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-v4Vq4WB/0/L/i-v4Vq4WB-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-76pjMKg/0/L/i-76pjMKg-L.jpg

Seals were easy to pop out with a dental pick, wiped the bores and seals clean, used a Q-tip on the seal grooves, and wiped the seal and piston with a very lite coat of WD-40 before reinstalling. Pistons now move properly in their bores.

[KPC67]

100% class!:thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

Great work Scotty!! Looking clean. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

I've stated before about guys should bleed their brakes on these cars completely once a year because brake fluid is "hygroscopic" meaning - it absorb moisture.... Obviously the moisture in the fluid did a nice job on the stainless pistons!! Thus proof of what I've said in the past.


Really nice job you're doing mister! I hope it's a noticeable improvement when you're all done!

[waynieZ]

Good as new!

[Sieg]

good job, Scott!

100% class!:thumbsup:

Great work Scotty!! Looking clean. :thumbsup:

Good as new!

Thanks Gents! :thumbsup:

[Greg from Aus]

Looking good Scotty

[Payton King]

We are waiting...

[Sieg]

Looking good Scotty
Thanks Mate.........I'll be back to Hooning before too long! :thumbsup:

We are waiting...
Me too! Waiting on Control Cables to contact me and confirm my e-brake cable order............and if GW would ease off on the power-texting with his maxi-iPad I might be able to get the brakes bled. :lol:

[Payton King]

True!

[Sieg]

Brake system is fully bled and pressure checked for leaks by holding hard pressure on the pedal for 15 seconds. I had a leak at the residual valve and one hard line to flex line junction quick re-torque was all it took.

I'm waiting on the e-brake cables from Control Cables and we'll be back in business. They contacted me this morning after receiving my info and said they should have the cables shipping by Tuesday at the latest. I have to thank Brent (Ricochet) for recommending them.

I found that there really wasn't what I felt was a clean and simple cable setup for the Wilwood e-brake setup that worked with the existing foot pedal and tensioning cable. Control Cable basically supply new cables from the e-brake to chassis mount very similar to the OEM cables made to your specs at what I felt was a very fair price.

Here's the drawing and picture of my cable routing mock up I submitted to them:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fWGCXgz/0/XL/i-fWGCXgz-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2xqSgJf/0/L/i-2xqSgJf-L.jpg

[efs69]

:popcorn2: I haven't hooked up my parking brakes so this is going to be put on my to do list.

[GregWeld]

Doesn't matter if you hook them up or not - they don't work worth a damn. It might make you feel good to have them hooked up... but I've never gotten them to function well even as a parking brake let alone an E brake.

[SSLance]

My "parking brake" will hold my car on a pretty good slope. I used the Lokar cable setup and had to build a bracket coming off of my trans cross member to put the forward half of the cables in the sweet spot. It has to be pretty stout as there is a lot of pressure on those cables when tight. The first one I built folded up like a cheap tent...

Nice work Sieg...

[Sieg]

Doesn't matter if you hook them up or not - they don't work worth a damn. It might make you feel good to have them hooked up... but I've never gotten them to function well even as a parking brake let alone an E brake.

We shall see.......I knew they didn't have the best of reputations and bat-turns were not in my future. :(

My "parking brake" will hold my car on a pretty good slope. I used the Lokar cable setup and had to build a bracket coming off of my trans cross member to put the forward half of the cables in the sweet spot. It has to be pretty stout as there is a lot of pressure on those cables when tight. The first one I built folded up like a cheap tent...

Nice work Sieg...
Hopefully using the factory mounting points and Control Cables which replicate the factory cables the system will be relatively flex/stretch free and the only limitation will be the minescule Wilwood baby drums.

Thanks Lance.

......and another picture just because I thought it was pretty cool for a phone camera.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-m8XZNkN/0/X2/i-m8XZNkN-X2.jpg

[Vegas69]

Doesn't matter if you hook them up or not - they don't work worth a damn. It might make you feel good to have them hooked up... but I've never gotten them to function well even as a parking brake let alone an E brake.

Sieg, leave this one to me as well, mine worked pretty well. :lol:

[Sieg]

My cables from Control Cables Inc arrived today. Nice looking pieces and fast turnaround time for a custom spec'd item. (Ordered Thursday night) They won't be installed until I return from Thunderhill though.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-b732LNM/0/XL/i-b732LNM-XL.jpg

Side note the new rear disc's, once properly biased they feel great. The rear disc's appear to not lock as easy as the drums and the chassis actually feels like it's pulling down a bit under hard braking vs transferring forward and locking. Maybe just my initial perception, but it feels like a 10%+ improvement with better pedal feel under hard braking.

[Flash68]

Nice looking pieces.

[Track Junky]

Nice pieces Sieg. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Sieg, leave this one to me as well, mine worked pretty well. :lol:
Update after a little usage.......mine are working fine too. :headscratch:

[Sieg]

Well.........I was bored today.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-QQc9TC3/0/XL/i-QQc9TC3-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HcJMBv2/0/XL/i-HcJMBv2-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-msBRZzp/0/XL/i-msBRZzp-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-M8FMbgM/0/XL/i-M8FMbgM-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-J7gdXpv/0/XL/i-J7gdXpv-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XF8WR86/0/XL/i-XF8WR86-XL.jpg

Good company under the car.......
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7bLnfJp/0/XL/i-7bLnfJp-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xQRjgRC/0/XL/i-xQRjgRC-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XShgGzW/0/XL/i-XShgGzW-XL.jpg

That was entertaining......I'm guessing the control arms had never been off since assembled. Rusted bushing bolts and pressed in upper cross shaft bolts can be a PITA with header interference.

The OTC tools are well built and worked great, at under $90 delivered via Amazon prime they were well worth it.

Global West bushings and offset cross-shafts are going in the control arms after refinishing, Pro Forged ball joints and tie rod ends (.5" taller outer ends and upper ball joints), and some used Hotchkis springs and hollow anti-roll bar will round out the upgrades.

[rickpaw]

Looking good Sieg.

Did you order the Proforged tall tie rod ends yet? I removed mine after installing the AFX spindles with about 500 miles on them. They're yours if you want them. PM me if you're interested.

Tu

[SSLance]

Nice work Sieg, looks like your supervisor kept you in line all day.

BTW, do you suffer from the OCD affliction as well? :D

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xQRjgRC/0/XL/i-xQRjgRC-XL.jpg

It's a curse, but it's a blessing as well sometimes. ;)

[Sieg]

Looking good Sieg.

Did you order the Proforged tall tie rod ends yet? I removed mine after installing the AFX spindles with about 500 miles on them. They're yours if you want them. PM me if you're interested.

Tu
Tu,

Very much appreciate the offer but I've had all the Pro Forged pieces sitting on the shelf maturing for a year and a half now. :underchair:

Nice work Sieg, looks like your supervisor kept you in line all day.

BTW, do you suffer from the OCD affliction as well? :D

It's a curse, but it's a blessing as well sometimes. ;)

OCD as in organized composition disorder? ...........Yes.

I wish someone would have video'd the supervisor as he was under the car and quite affectionate and vocal as if he was saying 'you've been under here most of the day, it's time to go inside!' :D

[GregWeld]

Is it done yet?



You know what goes a long ways on rusted stuff?? Some liquid wrench the night before....

[Sieg]

Is it done yet?

Almost............:smiley_smack:

[Flash68]

What brand are your jackstands?

[dhutton]

What brand are your jackstands?

:lol:

Don

[Sieg]

What brand are your jackstands?

They're old, probably older than you.............but most certainly not as experienced as your stands.

[efs69]

Man I wish my garage was that clean.

Maybe I need to develope some of that OCD Scott!!

[Sieg]

Spring dilemma........

Right is a Hotchkis -"2 SBC spring
Wire dia: 0.719" OAL: 12-1/2"

Left is my current spring circa 1992
Wire dia: 0.667" OAL 13-3/8"

The Hotchkis rate is spec'd at 600 lbs and heavier wire diameter than my current springs which I'm guessing are 550 lbs. The Hotchkis has both ends finished and the other has only one finished end and not as 'tight' the Hotchkis.

I don't want the car any lower in front, .5" higher would be ideal.

How much compression sag could be contributed to the unfinished end?

Any guesses as to where it might end up when it's sitting on the ground?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-BfTNsLd/2/X2/i-BfTNsLd-X2.jpg

[efs69]

Spring dilemma........

Right is a Hotchkis -"2 SBC spring
Wire dia: 0.719" OAL: 12-1/2"

Left is my current spring circa 1992
Wire dia: 0.667" OAL 13-3/8"

The Hotchkis rate is spec'd at 600 lbs and heavier wire diameter than my current springs which I'm guessing are 550 lbs. The Hotchkis has both ends finished and the other has only one finished end and not as 'tight' the Hotchkis.

I don't want the car any lower in front, .5" higher would be ideal.

How much compression sag could be contributed to the unfinished end?

Any guesses as to where it might end up when it's sitting on the ground?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-BfTNsLd/2/X2/i-BfTNsLd-X2.jpg



I had these springs on mine before the change and the car was really low. I scraped my headers on almost every driveway. I ended up bying some spring spacers from Global West. If I remember right they come in several heights. Hope this helps.

[SSLance]

psst... coilovers...

:unibrow:

[Sieg]

I had these springs on mine before the change and the car was really low. I scraped my headers on almost every driveway. I ended up buying some spring spacers from Global West. If I remember right they come in several heights. Hope this helps.
Were you using stock or aftermarket control arms?

Currently my top of wheel opening to ground measurement is 24.25", with no header clearance issues.

I'm thinking spacers will may be needed.........or a money tree and a hybrid coilover setup.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vzVfF47/2/X2/i-vzVfF47-X2.jpg

[intocarss]

RIPPING IT ALL APART.......Are You Bored??

[Sieg]

RIPPING IT ALL APART.......Are You Bored??

Not bored by any means..........scared would be a more accurate description.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WhCz62W/0/L/i-WhCz62W-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-p6jsc8C/0/L/i-p6jsc8C-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wVTPPJD/0/L/i-wVTPPJD-L.jpg

:D

[Panteracer]

Yes I would say it is time for some bushings and rubber pieces
They are older than most on this forum.. kinda like some very
low mileage Panteras that have much of the car just waiting
to fall apart but some investor type spends big bucks because
of the Odometer readings...

Bob

[efs69]

Were you using stock or aftermarket control arms?

Currently my top of wheel opening to ground measurement is 24.25", with no header clearance issues.

I'm thinking spacers will may be needed.........or a money tree and a hybrid coilover setup.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vzVfF47/2/X2/i-vzVfF47-X2.jpg

Scott that is a damn fine car you have there!!!

I had stock control arms first and I was about an inch lower about 23 inches. Then I switched to SPC upper and lower and it went down another inch because the lower had a dropped pocket.

[Roberts68]

I think Global West has a 1" drop spring.

Here's mine with stock UCA/LCA and 2" drop Hotchkis. http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e214/YamaCowboy/Camaro/photobucket-566-1340881559486.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/YamaCowboy/media/Camaro/photobucket-566-1340881559486.jpg.html)

[Panteracer]

My buddy Harry who worked with Herb Adams
Told me they would slope the spacers on the subframe
Medium at the back, smaller in the middle and none
Up front. Frame stayed the same so no header issues
but everything else is lowered

Bob

[Sieg]

Thankfully I enjoy shop time, but I wouldn't exactly call the last couple of days fun.......

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CS8nd9s/0/XL/i-CS8nd9s-XL.jpg

No stiction here......
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8Khs3FF/0/XL/i-8Khs3FF-XL.jpg

Smoothed all the edges on the upper and lower control arms.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hJnD3dq/0/XL/i-hJnD3dq-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PdMQL4R/0/XL/i-PdMQL4R-XL.jpg

Anti-roll bar link holes were elongated on both arms, so a quick fix ensued.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-pXmnd7G/0/XL/i-pXmnd7G-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-6rhL2Fc/0/XL/i-6rhL2Fc-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jF2MLJ9/0/XL/i-jF2MLJ9-XL.jpg

There was also this small gouge in the area of what I consider the weak link of the OEM lower arm, this could be a 'stress riser' which could magnify the chances of stressed failure.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-KXb5Mxh/0/XL/i-KXb5Mxh-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-x4rqPD2/0/XL/i-x4rqPD2-XL.jpg

2 hours of media blasting later I still don't have a paintable surface.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-V56rRwz/0/XL/i-V56rRwz-XL.jpg

:bang:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-V56rRwz/0/XL/i-V56rRwz-XL.jpg

:bang:

I see you have the much needed Greg Weld bushing spacer adapter.

Did you make one for the upper arm yet?

[Sieg]

I see you have the much needed Greg Weld bushing spacer adapter.

Did you make one for the upper arm yet?
LOL.......you don't miss much Hawkeye! :lol:

Greg Weld......Global West......similar, only much much different.

I'll concoct something for the uppers. :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

LOL.......you don't miss much Hawkeye! :lol:

Greg Weld......Global West......similar, only much much different.

I'll concoct something for the uppers. :thumbsup:

1 5/8 tubing with a 1" slot cut into it (for cross shaft to fit into) and fits between the arm opening.

[JB400]

Out of curiosity, what was your method for fixing your stress riser?:popcorn2:

[Sieg]

1 5/8 tubing with a 1" slot cut into it (for cross shaft to fit into) and fits between the arm opening.
:idea: .........finally, justification to buy a mill! :lol:

[SSLance]

It's gonna feel like a new car when done!!

Or at least look like one when when you crawl under the front of it. :D

[GregWeld]

This and the brakes are going to be really nice "improvements". While we know it's only a street driver - these old grey mares ain't what they used to be.... and they need all the help they can get. I did this same kind of upgrades to one of my '69 Camaros (a real Z/28 RS SS) - along with a simple transplant of the 302 with a HO 350 crate motor - a 5 speed - and bolt on Disc brakes in the rear... and THEN I liked driving it!!

BTW -- A good powder coater would have bead blasted those before coating them - and they'd come back so beautiful you'd want to hang them on the wall as art. If you do decide to just paint them -- do yourself a favor and use POR15 -- you will have to clean out the arms where the bushings go because the stuff builds up a pretty good millage. I've found just painting them - they're beat up by the time they get re-installed. I know a good pinstripper in Oregon -- he could lay some nice Hugger Orange do dads on them for ya. LOL

[GregWeld]

:idea: .........finally, justification to buy a mill! :lol:




Come over and get mine! I'll then 'have' to buy a new one.....


It ain't the mill that's expensive -- it's the tooling you'll need to be able to actually use it. Oh and a good mill vise - can cost half of what the mill did... you'll need 2 flute cutters for aluminum - and 4 flute for steel - in all the sizes... end mills and ball mills.... and collets for all of 'em... and an indexer... and a coolant pump and tank/recovery system... and all manor of dial indicators and set up tools... and a cabinet to keep all that stuff in.... and 220V 30 amp power... and really good lighting... and it's the size of a refrigerator... so you'll have to add on to the back of the garage... :thumbsup: :poke: :superhack: :G-Dub:

[Sieg]

Out of curiosity, what was your method for fixing your stress riser?:popcorn2:
I smoothed it with a Dremel and ran a bead over it with the MIG.

It's gonna feel like a new car when done!!

Or at least look like one when when you crawl under the front of it. :D
I'm very interested in what the front suspension will feel under hard braking and turn-in with Delrin bushings vs old OEM rubber. As bad as the OEM rubber looked from the exterior, I pulled a couple apart and the concealed 'bearing' surfaces were actually in good shape.

This and the brakes are going to be really nice "improvements". While we know it's only a street driver - these old grey mares ain't what they used to be.... and they need all the help they can get. I did this same kind of upgrades to one of my '69 Camaros (a real Z/28 RS SS) - along with a simple transplant of the 302 with a HO 350 crate motor - a 5 speed - and bolt on Disc brakes in the rear... and THEN I liked driving it!!

BTW -- A good powder coater would have bead blasted those before coating them - and they'd come back so beautiful you'd want to hang them on the wall as art. If you do decide to just paint them -- do yourself a favor and use POR15 -- you will have to clean out the arms where the bushings go because the stuff builds up a pretty good millage. I've found just painting them - they're beat up by the time they get re-installed. I know a good pinstripper in Oregon -- he could lay some nice Hugger Orange do dads on them for ya. LOL
They may still go to the powder coater as I have a gate frame to build that needs to be powdered coated this week.

Is a pinstripper similar to a polestripper? Or were you talking about Mitch "WingBo' Kim the pinstriper?

Come over and get mine! I'll then 'have' to buy a new one.....


It ain't the mill that's expensive -- it's the tooling you'll need to be able to actually use it. Oh and a good mill vise - can cost half of what the mill did... you'll need 2 flute cutters for aluminum - and 4 flute for steel - in all the sizes... end mills and ball mills.... and collets for all of 'em... and an indexer... and a coolant pump and tank/recovery system... and all manor of dial indicators and set up tools... and a cabinet to keep all that stuff in.... and 220V 30 amp power... and really good lighting... and it's the size of a refrigerator... so you'll have to add on to the back of the garage... :thumbsup: :poke: :superhack: :G-Dub:

I'll see you on Wednesday, but only if you throw in the hedge trimmer with the deal............:action-smiley-027:

[GregWeld]

Like Motel 6 - I'll leave the light on for ya.


Doesn't mean that I'll be home now that I've gotten fair warning of your arrival date.


I like pinstripper better than pinstriper. Mitch Kim is EXACTLY who I was thinking of. He did Rudy's.

[Sieg]

Or at least look like one when when you crawl under the front of it. :D

Ain't happening Lancelot..............

At some point in Norwood's past, probably in his teenage years, I'm guessing he had a cross country off road trip........so here's the other hot-rodding fix I spent at least two hours on yesterday just so I could run a rod through the lower control arm pick up points to make sure they're in the ballpark.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jWRNVJQ/0/XL/i-jWRNVJQ-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ZgtTS82/0/XL/i-ZgtTS82-XL.jpg

After multiple pulls on the folded lip with a big Crescent wrench and cheater bar, then an incision in the stretch point I ended up with this.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-BTZvZgB/0/XL/i-BTZvZgB-XL.jpg

Then this.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DbTm43g/0/XL/i-DbTm43g-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tZMJzkB/0/XL/i-tZMJzkB-XL.jpg

O'l Norwood ain't going to win any beauty contests unless Stevie Wonder is judging.

[SSLance]

lol... You know, Ol Foose would have bondo'd up those hammer marks on that after straightening it back out. Jus' sayin'

And what's with all of the oil deposits? I know you don't need any corrosion protection out there. ;)

And that rod through the control arm pickup points trick, where'd you learn that from. http://www.speedinfinity.net/forums/Smileys/default/popcorn.gif

Nice work Sieg, keep it up.

[GregWeld]

lol... You know, Ol Foose would have bondo'd up those hammer marks on that after straightening it back out. Jus' sayin'

And what's with all of the oil deposits? I know you don't need any corrosion protection out there. ;)

And that rod through the control arm pickup points trick, where'd you learn that from. http://www.speedinfinity.net/forums/Smileys/default/popcorn.gif

Nice work Sieg, keep it up.


Those come from NOT running an LS motor.....

[Vince@Meanstreets]

:idea: .........finally, justification to buy a mill! :lol:

Naw, after see your patience with the bead blaster a normal 2 hours with a die grinder and sanding disk should be good.

Mill, just like Greg says a whole lot of money is the sum of its parts.

[CURVES]

Did I miss something?

What happened to the other subframe?

[Sieg]

lol... You know, Ol Foose would have bondo'd up those hammer marks on that after straightening it back out. Jus' sayin'

And what's with all of the oil deposits? I know you don't need any corrosion protection out there. ;)

And that rod through the control arm pickup points trick, where'd you learn that from. http://www.speedinfinity.net/forums/Smileys/default/popcorn.gif

Nice work Sieg, keep it up.

Norwood has enough bondo, thankfully it's not lead or he would be 200 lbs. heavier. :sieg:

The first two pictures were taken 5 years ago BF (before fire) after having the motor freshened up and telling the machine shop how much I hate oil leaks, new Milodon pan, timing cover, Felpro one piece silicone gasket, Right Stuff sealant, and assurance that it wouldn't............it only leaks half as much. :bang:

The rod trick came from the masochist of measurement..........I think you know the guy. :rules:

Thanks :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Those come from NOT running an LS motor.....
Well, I don't have any cooling issues..............I got that going for me. :mock:

[Sieg]

Did I miss something?

What happened to the other subframe?

It's leaning against the wall......waiting for social security to fund it. :D

If the subframe comes out, so does the motor and that means upgrades that don't mesh with poor Norwood's current budget limitations. :shakehead:

[CURVES]

I thought maybe you'd try the method Customworks used on Glassman's car....

But I get it :D

[GregWeld]

Well, I don't have any cooling issues..............I got that going for me. :mock:

That was an installer error -- sometimes you DO NOT get what you pay for.... LOL

[GregWeld]

I thought maybe you'd try the method Customworks used on Glassman's car....

But I get it :D





That should have been a driver re-install.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

That was an installer error -- sometimes you DO NOT get what you pay for.... LOL

:action-smiley-027:

[SSLance]

The rod trick came from the masochist of measurement..........I think you know the guy. :rules:



lol... That the PERFECT name for him...

[Sieg]

I finished what the StarBright media couldn't yesterday with my tried and true electric drill and wire wheel.......

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PCJcMkP/0/X2/i-PCJcMkP-X2.jpg

I'll treat the uppers and lowers with Ospho today since I had good results on my floorboards prior to painting with POR 15.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-rsLPJ35/0/L/i-rsLPJ35-L.jpg

If you're not familiar with Ospho, I'd check it out. I've used the product over the last 30+ years and have been very impressed. www.ospho.com

I ordered 3 aerosol cans of POR 15 Top Coat in Chassis Black yesterday so I should have the pieces painted Tuesday night if all goes well.

[Sieg]

I've shelved Norwood and moved on a more challenging and rewarding project...........

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jTZWmCn/0/XL/i-jTZWmCn-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jL8ZTNC/0/XL/i-jL8ZTNC-XL.jpg

Murray the ditch mower is getting a Mad Max overhaul. :unibrow:

[GregWeld]

Stretching the wheelbase -- ala a Jakes Rod Shop version??


Or are you going with the offset 3 link?



Just FYI -- I did the "Bryan Cope Salt Lick Conversion" to my Barbecue last summer.

[Sieg]

Stretching the wheelbase -- ala a Jakes Rod Shop version??


Or are you going with the offset 3 link?



Just FYI -- I did the "Bryan Cope Salt Lick Conversion" to my Barbecue last summer.

I'm not sure if Sutton works on front wheel drive vehicles, but rest assured I'll be contacting him.

A decoupled 3-link for the rear drive (handle) could have substantial benefits negotiating the 2:1 slope in the backyard.

Did you add a composter to your BBQ? :sieg:

[GregWeld]

I'm not sure if Sutton works on front wheel drive vehicles, but rest assured I'll be contacting him.

A decoupled 3-link for the rear drive (handle) could have substantial benefits negotiating the 2:1 slope in the backyard.

Did you add a composter to your BBQ? :sieg:




There's a separate room inside the house for that.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

front wheel drive? do what all the other front wheel drive crazies do and a add a big honkin spoiler to the rear.

[Sieg]

front wheel drive? do what all the other front wheel drive crazies do and a add a big honkin spoiler to the rear.
:idea: Mount a small turbo up front and pipe it to nowhere!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

:idea: Mount a small turbo up front and pipe it to nowhere!

well in the spirit of this build, i'd go twin leaf blowers.

[Che70velle]

It's all about the camber guys. Sieg, put so much negative caber on Mr. Murray, that the inside of the wheels rub the dirt.

[Sieg]

:superhack: :weld: :unibrow:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RQ5WsrT/1/L/i-RQ5WsrT-L.jpg

[GregWeld]

The old grey mare.... she ain't what she used to be.....

[Ron in SoCal]

So we're down to lawn mowers now? :sieg:

http://www.mylawnmowerforum.com/#/forumsite/20476 :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

So we're down to lawn mowers now? :sieg:

http://www.mylawnmowerforum.com/#/forumsite/20476 :thumbsup:

Bad Ron - Please........Honor Diversity.


:action-smiley-027:

[Greg from Aus]

So are you changing the name of the thread to Norlawns :sieg:

[Ron in SoCal]

Bad Ron - Please........Honor Diversity.


:action-smiley-027:

You saw the thumbs up and the forum link right?

All in good fun Siegmeister and thanks for the material :D

[DavidBoren]

Great background and build. This thread really encompasses a lot of what goes into this hobby. The passion and sentiment, the life-long friends you meet along the way, the pain of defeat, the joys of victory, and the hours spent losing sleep and blood and sweat and money... and, most of all, it shows how little work gets done. The bull$#!+ to work ratio is very well represented in this thread.

[Sieg]

So are you changing the name of the thread to Norlawns :sieg:
I'm thinking Normurray........my interpretation of ebonics for normally.

You saw the thumbs up and the forum link right?

All in good fun Siegmeister and thanks for the material :D
Absolutely! :thumbsup:

Great background and build. This thread really encompasses a lot of what goes into this hobby. The passion and sentiment, the life-long friends you meet along the way, the pain of defeat, the joys of victory, and the hours spent losing sleep and blood and sweat and money... and, most of all, it shows how little work gets done. The bull$#!+ to work ratio is very well represented in this thread.
Thanks........wouldn't have it any other way, it's been a great journey. :cheers:

[GregWeld]

I'd like to see the cross weight numbers now with the "addition".

What grit disc did you use on the cut off wheel?

If you tape - do you use the blue long lasting or the green longer lasting?

Did you TIG or MIG the "addition/repair"?

Do you know the color code? I'd like to paint some scrap I have that color.

Will you use staggered sizes on the tires?

What is the backspacing on those wheels?

[Greg from Aus]

I'd like to see the cross weight numbers now with the "addition".

What grit disc did you use on the cut off wheel?

If you tape - do you use the blue long lasting or the green longer lasting?

Did you TIG or MIG the "addition/repair"?

Do you know the color code? I'd like to paint some scrap I have that color.

Will you use staggered sizes on the tires?

What is the backspacing on those wheels?

Way too many questions, Mr Weld. :poke:

[Sieg]

Way too many questions, Mr Weld. :poke:

Those aren't questions.........they're opportunities for sarcastic journalism. :D

Priorities first.........:walkingdog: :weld:

[Roberts68]

I'd like to see the cross weight numbers now with the "addition".

What grit disc did you use on the cut off wheel?

If you tape - do you use the blue long lasting or the green longer lasting?

Did you TIG or MIG the "addition/repair"?

Do you know the color code? I'd like to paint some scrap I have that color.

Will you use staggered sizes on the tires?

What is the backspacing on those wheels?

I see what you did there... I think. :D :popcorn2:

[GregWeld]

Way too many questions, Mr Weld. :poke:




HAHAHAHAHAHA ----- it's called being an ASKhole.....


LOL

[Sieg]

I'd like to see the cross weight numbers now with the "addition".
Didn't weigh it in advance, but considering the weight loss from the cancer which took the 14 ga stamping down to zero gauge, I'm guessing Murray gained 3-4 lbs. As he was already nose heavy due to the FW drive system, the counter weighting should actually benefit the balance and no doubt lower lap times.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-MhqLWGm/0/XL/i-MhqLWGm-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-j6H6CKh/0/XL/i-j6H6CKh-XL.jpg

What grit disc did you use on the cut off wheel?

40 grit Harbor Freight premiums.........Because they're cheap.

If you tape - do you use the blue long lasting or the green longer lasting?

Yellow..........Because it's cheap.

Did you TIG or MIG the "addition/repair"?

MIG...........Because it's cheap.

Do you know the color code? I'd like to paint some scrap I have that color.

I'm thinking it's a '69 Torino color.

Will you use staggered sizes on the tires? What is the backspacing on those wheels?
Slight stagger due to one worn OEM and one Wilco replacement that wasn't cheap at $6.95.

Zero backspace to maximize track width and I really didn't want to fab custom axles or mini-tub it.

:action-smiley-027:

[Sieg]

For the control arms I went with POR-15 Chassis Black now available in aerosol. Overall I was very pleased with how it sprayed, covered, and finished out. I sprayed a relatively heavy first sealing coat and moderately heavy second coat about 12 hours after the first coat. It took about 1.2 cans for the four arms.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2ZFQQ7N/0/X2/i-2ZFQQ7N-X2.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ttGSWpq/0/X2/i-ttGSWpq-X2.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2zr4r3X/0/X2/i-2zr4r3X-X2.jpg

[Sieg]

Murray Mad Max V1.2 was completed a while ago and performed better than OEM.......FWIW. :D

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-VCRLCVF/0/XL/i-VCRLCVF-XL.jpg

[Sieg]

Not much time for electronic entertainment lately........every spare minute has been dedicated to shelving the jackstands under Norwood.

Hotchkis anti-roll bar mounted and shimmed to eliminate bushing bind.....makes me wonder how many bars are installed with the bushing induced death grip.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4VT7r5Z/0/XL/i-4VT7r5Z-XL.jpg

New GW cross-shafts and delrin bushings.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-BXT6DG3/0/XL/i-BXT6DG3-XL.jpg

Few of the fabricated press tools for the upper control arm bushings.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vHF32rz/0/XL/i-vHF32rz-XL.jpg

Majority of press related tooling.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ZCPnCR2/0/X2/i-ZCPnCR2-X2.jpg

Completed control arms with ProForged ball joints and GW bushings installed.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-LDHcv3G/0/X2/i-LDHcv3G-X2.jpg

ProForged tie rod ends and billet couplers ready for installation. The ProForged parts are exceptionally nice pieces for the dollar and in the case of the idler arm previously installed, it was every bit the quality of the Moog piece but allowed the needed header clearance. The Moog idler was pinned against the header tube which would have lead to very premature failure as the internal bushing is synthetic.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-GsKmJkc/0/XL/i-GsKmJkc-XL.jpg

New digital camber/caster gauge and homemade adapter.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WbBZctK/0/X2/i-WbBZctK-X2.jpg

New home fabricated class III laser alignment tool.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PXzvLbm/0/X2/i-PXzvLbm-X2.jpg

A LOT of work and head-scratching.........and shim changes. :bang:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-3QhQLX4/0/X2/i-3QhQLX4-X2.jpg

[Flash68]

Sieg you are just too cool with all your tinkering. Nice work kid. Those control arms look sweet. You comin down next month?

[Sieg]

Sieg you are just too cool with all your tinkering. Nice work kid. Those control arms look sweet. You comin down next month?

Regretfully no.........I have a date with a 20+ year old friend.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/People/Paisley-2012/i-RMt3SRW/1/XL/IMAG2106-XL.jpg

[Payton King]

Cool stuff going on right there. Good use of the spare time since the text train was derailed.

[Panteracer]

This is truly built not bought
Cool stuff Sieg... really like the home made
adapters for your tools and the fact
you are the alignment shop..
Been learning how to do some of this front
end tuning myself... better than wondering
what the shop really did.. plus you can adjust
it even at the track if you want

Bob

[Flash68]

Pew pew pew.

[57hemicuda]

More lawn mower tech!!!!!