Norwood

[intocarss]

1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2

He's good.. he has that writen all over his eng, garage walls and has cheat sheets taped to REV'S collar LOLOL :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

If you're at TDC put the mark on the balancer at 8-12*BTDC then turn your dist until it is phased with the #1 plug post (or that mark you have) on the cap..lock it down and try and start it

[WSSix]

lol, ok. I saw it on the cap but hell, I've screwed up and crossed wires before. It's a pain on C2/3 vettes since they route them down and under the manifolds to get to the spark plugs. I got 2 and 4 crossed once and had a hell of a time figuring it out. I double checked wires too. Finally found it after checking yet again.

[Sieg]

You have 2-3 DEGREES INITAL ADVANCE? Try putting some more timing in it and fire it up

I have never heard it called The POOF test That's funny
Those were just proximation photos of rotor and timing marks. As noted I put a Sharpie mark on the distributor and intake to reference where the timing was from the shop. Tried firing it there and tried advancing an retarding in 3-4 small increments (thickness of the Sharpie mark) each way and it didn't want to "catch." Something isn't right, so I retreated. :yes:

[intocarss]

Nothing wrong with double checking Wssix I just like picking on him

[intocarss]

Those were just proximation photos of rotor and timing marks. As noted I put a Sharpie mark on the distributor and intake to reference where the timing was from the shop. Tried firing it there and tried advancing an retarding in 3-4 small increments (thickness of the Sharpie mark) each way and it didn't want to "catch." Something isn't right, so I retreated. :yes: moving the dist the thickness of a sharpie mark isn't enough

[Sieg]

He's good.. he has that writen all over his eng, garage walls and has cheat sheets taped to REV'S collar LOLOL :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

If you're at TDC put the mark on the balancer at 8-12*BTDC then turn your dist until it is phased with the #1 plug post (or that mark you have) on the cap..lock it down and try and start it

:rofl: Smart A$$

I told the shop 10* initial and that's what it appeared to be. If the distributor is rotated an 1/8" approximately how many degrees is that?

[intocarss]

:rofl: Smart A$$

I told the shop 10* initial and that's what it appeared to be. If the distributor is rotated an 1/8" approximately how many degrees is that?

I found it is a little different on every eng, is the dist locked out ?

[Sieg]

moving the dist the thickness of a sharpie mark isn't enough

I was moving it a total 3/8" on each side of the reference point.........not enough possibly?

[intocarss]

I was moving it a total 3/8" on each side of the reference point.........not enough possibly? possibly not. Is it a mech advance dist or is it locked out? Do you have a MSD box?

[WSSix]

He's good.. he has that writen all over his eng, garage walls and has cheat sheets taped to REV'S collar LOLOL :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

If you're at TDC put the mark on the balancer at 8-12*BTDC then turn your dist until it is phased with the #1 plug post (or that mark you have) on the cap..lock it down and try and start it

lol, you weren't kidding. I just went back looking at the other pictures and he does have it written everywhere. Good idea when you don't have it down pat :thumbsup:

Double check spark then advance the crap out of the dist. which is counterclockwise rotation. See if you can get a change in the sound of it cranking to occur. If it back fires, you've gone too far. Looking at the pictures you've shown, unless the cam was very radical, it should have done more than burbled with that timing, IMO.

[glassman]

Make sure the distributors sinched. I've had this issue in the past and one of the symptoms was that when I was trying to fire it, the dist would retard itself by rotating from the vibration...

[Sieg]

possibly not. Is it a mech advance dist or is it locked out? Do you have a MSD box?
Mechanical. Set to allow 25* total + initial at 3,500. No box.

[intocarss]

Ok that's good

[GregWeld]

Okay - we'll all just go thru the basics...

Pull the coil wire - and make sure you're actually getting spark

Look into the carb and stab the throttle and see that you're getting gas

While we know you wrote the firing order down...

From #1 - the firing order rotates CLOCKWISE...

This IS A FOUR STROKE ENGINE - so the timing comes around TWICE. The "poof" test is best verified with a valve cover off - watch the valves as you crank the engine over (I use a ratchet on the crank bolt if you don't have a starter button to hook up - this is done easier with no plugs in) - watch the intake open and then as it closes - watch your timing mark and your rotor (cap off!). At ZERO both valves should be closed - the rotor should be at #1.

Then I crank in 10* (your initial) on the timing pointer - and set the distributor so that it's dead on #1 on the cap...

This will set your initial timing so that you're really close. That way when she fires - she'll run real nice and you can just touch up the timing when you get a little heat in the motor and you've made sure everything else is going good.

[Sieg]

For clarification it has ran (stubbled fo 15 seconds), but required rapid pumping of the throttle. It's back-fired annd done a few pop! volcanic fireballs, nothing a cotton towel doesn't fix.....and yes 2 extinguishers were close by.

I was wondering if in was 180* out. But not knowing the indicators of 180* out I'm unsure.

Rotor is rotating CW not CCW.....according to firing order CW is correct, fan is turning CCW according to blades is correct.

With all the new parts........could it be a carb issue? The squirters are working, butterflies work through the full range with the throttle pedal, floats are on the high side, front is filling 60% of the sight glass, rear is filling75-80%. I'll back them to down to the 40% mark tomorrow.....but I thought it would light up even if they were on the high side.

Double checked the distributor internals.

I didn't do the ignition wiring or aftermarket harness installation.

[intocarss]

If it's 180* out, it won't start it will just backfire, If it's popping, stubbling and spitting and all is good inside eng.. It sounds like timing is to far retarded

Yes the floats are a lil high but as long as gas isnt coming out of the vents it should run for now but fix that issue. And yes the rotor turns CW

Wish I could explain things in writing like Greg :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Wish I could explain things in writing like Greg :thumbsup:I wish I was as flexible as Rev too, but it ain't gonna happen. :thumbsup:

Something just doesn't sound right when it's trying to light....out of phase like. I'll drop the floats and see if that changes anything - that would be too easy.

[intocarss]

I wish I was as flexible as Rev too, but it ain't gonna happen. :thumbsup:

I haven't laughed this hard in a loooooooooooong time :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

aww man this is cracking me up....not your problem but the comments. LOL
Verify spark like Greg says. I think he might be spending too much time with the Mustang though. :D
Give that baby some more advance and pop er off. Pull the vac can towards you.

Premature pull out is common first timers. Just don't go too far in or you might lose a finger nail. :rolleyes:

[GregWeld]

Yes --- CLOCKWISE.... sorry --- I was trying to THINK and type at the same time... the brain had one picture and the fingers typed what I was thinking not to do!

Should have read my own post before hitting submit.:D

[WSSix]

The distributor is driven off the cam which only makes one rotation to the crank shaft's two rotations. I agree though that it's best to lift a valve cover to make sure you're on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke

[Roscoe03]

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tBcXzvz/0/L/i-tBcXzvz-L.jpg

:woot:

What spark plug wire separators do you have on your valve covers?....I have been looking for something like those but haven't had luck finding any.

[Sieg]

What spark plug wire separators do you have on your valve covers?....I have been looking for something like those but haven't had luck finding any.
Moroso, pretty common, Summit & Jegs, etc.

[Sieg]

Yes --- CLOCKWISE.... sorry --- I was trying to THINK and type at the same time... the brain had one picture and the fingers typed what I was thinking not to do!

Should have read my own post before hitting submit.:DI knew what you meant, it was a good knuckleball you threw me considering the moment. :D

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Poof should verify valve opening. Unless you have a plugged exhaust but pull the valve cover to satisfy 27% of us.

I think you need more timing, oh an be prepared to swap out that power valve. The power valve protection doesn't work as well as they like it to. It's cheap insurance, unless you have a tester.
If you have another throat fire just crank it more. The vaccum create will put it out.
Put a battery charger on it while you are doing the first start. Ensures the ignition and starter gets what it needs

[Sieg]

Poof should verify valve opening. Unless you have a plugged exhaust but pull the valve cover to satisfy 27% of us.

I think you need more timing, oh an be prepared to swap out that power valve. The power valve protection doesn't work as well as they like it to. It's cheap insurance, unless you have a tester.
If you have another throat fire just crank it more. The vaccum create will put it out.
Put a battery charger on it while you are doing the first start. Ensures the ignition and starter gets what it needs
Open headers.

Didn't have any "huge" pops, can you visually detect a damaged power valve as in diaphram compromised? I have a couple backup valves if that's the case.

Connected to charger while cranking, works until the assumed starter thermal protection kicks in. That's where the towel comes in handy. ;)

I'm going to check a tach wiring concern and see what I find tonight. The distributor has an internal rev limiter and I'm wondering if for some reason that may be what I'm up against right off idle? To program the limiter you ground and when it was wire I'm wondering if it was grounded and set the rev limit real low? Based on the symptoms that would make sense. We shall see.

Thanks for the help everyone.........Jerry too. :rofl: :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

Open headers.

Didn't have any "huge" pops, can you visually detect a damaged power valve as in diaphram compromised? I have a couple backup valves if that's the case.


Thanks for the help everyone.........Jerry too. :rofl: :thumbsup: I have checked the PV by putting the hex end against my lips, then depressing the diaphram (push on other end), then suck hard and release your finger and see if the the diaphram stays open. Stop sucking and see if it closes, it will only move a little bit. Or If you lightly keep your finger on it and suck and release suck and release ..you'll feel it move in and out while sucking


HEY if it still don't start... just buy Vince's eng and have him get it started for ya :_paranoid :willy: and you're fricken welcome.. :cheers:

[Sieg]

I have checked the PV by putting the hex end against my lips, then depressing the diaphram (push on other end), then suck hard and release your finger and see if the the diaphram stays open. Stop sucking and see if it closes, it will only move a little bit. Or If you lightly keep your finger on it and suck and release suck and release ..you'll feel it move in and out while sucking


HEY if it still don't start... just buy Vince's eng and have him get it started for ya :_paranoid :willy: and you're fricken welcome.. :cheers:
Could you supply video of the PV check procedure? :unibrow:

Technically Vince's engine could have fallen victim to the same circumstances......not that I would like to have it!

If that tach wire was inadvertantly grounded at some point, like when testing the starter or if the little Autoguage tach I'm using isn't communicating properly with the distributor the rev limit could "possibly" be set at 2K. Somewhat grasping at straws but that's trouble-shooting.

TACHOMETER INFORMATION
The MSD Ready-to-Run has a Gray wire that provides a 12 volt square wave, 20° duty cycle tachometer signal that will trigger most tachometers. It is recommended to connect this lead to your tach’s trigger input wire and check its operation. Note that the rpm limiter is extremely accurate and due to the variety of tachometers available, there may be differences in the displayed rpm.
PROGRAMMING THE REV LIMIT
A tachometer is required to set the rev limit. The limit is programmed by running the engine at half the desired rpm, then momentarily grounding the Gray tach output wire from the MSD. A Gray jumper wire is supplied to connect to the tach with another tee-splice coming off to use for programming. A switch may also be installed to ease adjustments of the limiter (Figure 15). The default rpm limit is 10,000 rpm and the limit is adjustable from 2,000 - over 10,000 rpm..
1. Start the engine and bring the rpm to half the desired rev limit (for a 6,000 rpm limit, raise and hold the rpm to 3,000).
2. While holding the rpm steady, short the Gray tach wire to ground for approximately one second. Note that the tach will go to zero while grounded.
3. The tach will now display the programmed rev limit amount for two seconds. If this value does not register on the tach, repeat the procedure and try a different ground source.
4. To confirm the rev limit value, turn the ignition key to the On position (without cranking the engine). The rev limit value will be displayed for two seconds on the tachometer.
Note: This rpm confirmation only displays when the Gray wire is being used to trigger the tachometer.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Could you supply video of the PV check procedure? :unibrow:

Technically Vince's engine could have fallen victim to the same circumstances......not that I would like to have it!

If that tach wire was inadvertantly grounded at some point, like when testing the starter or if the little Autoguage tach I'm using isn't communicating properly with the distributor the rev limit could "possibly" be set at 2K. Somewhat grasping at straws but that's trouble-shooting.

TACHOMETER INFORMATION
The MSD Ready-to-Run has a Gray wire that provides a 12 volt square wave, 20° duty cycle tachometer signal that will trigger most tachometers. It is recommended to connect this lead to your tach’s trigger input wire and check its operation. Note that the rpm limiter is extremely accurate and due to the variety of tachometers available, there may be differences in the displayed rpm.
PROGRAMMING THE REV LIMIT
A tachometer is required to set the rev limit. The limit is programmed by running the engine at half the desired rpm, then momentarily grounding the Gray tach output wire from the MSD. A Gray jumper wire is supplied to connect to the tach with another tee-splice coming off to use for programming. A switch may also be installed to ease adjustments of the limiter (Figure 15). The default rpm limit is 10,000 rpm and the limit is adjustable from 2,000 - over 10,000 rpm..
1. Start the engine and bring the rpm to half the desired rev limit (for a 6,000 rpm limit, raise and hold the rpm to 3,000).
2. While holding the rpm steady, short the Gray tach wire to ground for approximately one second. Note that the tach will go to zero while grounded.
3. The tach will now display the programmed rev limit amount for two seconds. If this value does not register on the tach, repeat the procedure and try a different ground source.
4. To confirm the rev limit value, turn the ignition key to the On position (without cranking the engine). The rev limit value will be displayed for two seconds on the tachometer.
Note: This rpm confirmation only displays when the Gray wire is being used to trigger the tachometer.

orr you can disconnect all that fancy stuff for now just to get it running and eliminate all the possibilities.
KISS me
I don't like first starts with no exhaust, just a personal preference. Its hard to hear the little issues that might happen.

[Sieg]

or you can disconnect all that fancy stuff for now just to get it running and eliminate all the possibilities.
KISS me
I don't like first starts with no exhaust, just a personal preference. Its hard to hear the little issues that might happen.The tach is kinda handy for break-in. :D It can be wired old school vs. using the designated lead. That internal rev limiter is a concern, so is a defective distributor the way my luck has been. :yes:

Understood on the exhaust........what do the pro-stock guys do? :unibrow:
I might cut it to length and tack it up........in my spare time. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

The tach is kinda handy for break-in. :D It can be wired old school vs. using the designated lead. That internal rev limiter is a concern, so is a defective distributor the way my luck has been. :yes:

Understood on the exhaust........what do the pro-stock guys do? :unibrow:
I might cut it to length and tack it up........in my spare time. :thumbsup:

"what do the pro-stock guys do" We drag racers get used to listening to engs uncorked ;)

I don't think that the Rev limiter will make it blubber and back fire. It'll just miss (ever hit the rev limiter on your bike? I'll sound like that) You're doing the rt thing checking any and all possibilities :thumbsup: OH and that video is on it's way :willy:

[Sieg]

Just checked the rev limiter's current setting........turn key on and "the tach will display the value for 2 seconds." My tach displays zero, and the needles initial mocement is towards a negative number. http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/headscratch.gif

I'm guesing that budget AutoGuage tach is not compatible with the new distributor.

Time to confirm tach wiring..........I can just run the lead to the negative post on the coil instead of the gray lead off the distributor.

It would be nice to just install this:
http://www.autometer.com/img/products/6001_d.jpg

[GregWeld]

Living in Eugene -- ever heard that Nike statement??


:rofl:

[Sieg]

Living in Eugene -- ever heard that Nike statement??


:rofl:

I did it and it don't do it. :willy:

:D

[Sieg]

Disconnected the distributor tach lead and connected to coil negative, checked chassis ground, float level in middle of sight glass, tried to light it and advanced and retarded the distributor while cranking and cylinders are firing but possibly not all of them..........?

Time to check valve adjustment?

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Hold on a sec,

Pull a plug first....see if they are wet or dry.

[Sieg]

Hold on a sec,

Pull a plug first....see if they are wet or dry.
Wet (damp) last night when I pulled #1.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Wet (damp) last night when I pulled #1.

i'd fix that....fuel fowled plugs won't fire well if you were spot on. Your getting there.

Pull all the plugs and crank it for a few secs to blow the fuel out. If it were me i'd replace all wet ones. You should have at least 2-4 dry ones if it tried to run.

[Sieg]

i'd fix that....fuel fowled plugs won't fire well if you were spot on. Your getting there.

Pull all the plugs and crank it for a few secs to blow the fuel out. If it were me i'd replace all wet ones. You should have at least 2-4 dry ones if it tried to run.
It's worth a try.

Current plugs are Autolite 3924 @ .040. Is wet and .040 gap vs. .035 enough to cause issue?

[68firebird]

I by no means am a pro here as compared to others, but I'd like to give my .02 cents, might help or it might not

I recently did a valve adjustment on my 305, which ran fine after replacing all the top end gaskets from the block up, but it had some rocker arm ticking. so I attempted my first valve adjustment. After the adjustment she wouldn't fire at all, except when I sprayed some starting fluid in the carb, even then I would have to keep the throttle in a bit to keep it running, and while it was running the motor was shaking pretty violently. I was thinking it was timing and all that, but in the end I had tightened the valves down too much and they were hanging open a bit. Checking the valve adjustment isn't a bad idea!!

[GregWeld]

It's worth a try.

Current plugs are Autolite 3924 @ .040. Is wet and .040 gap vs. .035 enough to cause issue?

.035 for a street engine that idles a lot at stop lights etc... you're not going to see any performance difference by gapping larger.


I'd also buy a can of starting fluid... give it a small shot - and see if she wants to fire... sometimes that is all that's needed to tell you a lot.

[Sieg]

Thanks guys. I'll have to chuckle if it comes down to wet plugs and lack of octane after all the speculation.........especially being an old 2-stroke motorcyclist that dealt with more than a few wet/fouled plugs in his day.

Like Vince said......KISS

:thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Who adjusted the valves? You or the engine builder? No point in checking the valves if the engine builder did it...

If you're going thru the trouble of pulling the plugs - leave them out - pull the V/C and set your timing per the earlier post... then at least you know that's really really close. Doing the finger over the hole poof test - watching the valves so you know you're in compression mode after the intake opens and then closes - and seeing the rotor come up to number 1 is a good feeling and brings closure to that question. Bring your timing to zero - look at the rotor. Advance the crank timing to show 10* and look at the rotor - adjust the distributor to have the rotor spot on #1. Now you're timing is set dang close.

Then button it back up...

Try the starter fluid... just a little! That will tell you right away if you have fire. If she does nothing - then you know you have a lighting issue to chase down.

Floats in the middle of the site glass would be HIGH? Not familiar with your carb - but Holleys want the fuel at the BOTTOM of the hole...

Typically - a jab here - with OLD SKOOL carb motors.... :D I'd turn the idle adjustment all the way in - and back them out 1 and a half turns. That's usually "close" to get a motor running. Not sure about your carb... so really can't advise you there but a call to them could help you. :cheers:

[Sieg]

Confident the shop managed to get the lifters right, same with the distributor. I visually checked the rotor and timing mark against #1 already.

Float level is still high but OK for jack stand starts.

Carb has internal central air correction adjustment to set idle mixture in conjunction with the individual fuel screws vs adjusting optimal butterfly position.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wzPvHfT/0/M/i-wzPvHfT-M.jpg

:unibrow:

[intocarss]

Is the battery hooked up?? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Sieg]

Is the battery hooked up?? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Ship your monkey up here to check that for me would ya. http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/bitchslap.gif

[intocarss]

Ship your monkey up here to check that for me would ya. http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/bitchslap.gif

Ok He'll bring that video too

[Flash68]

Ship your monkey up here to check that for me would ya.

:rofl: :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

happy dance yet? :unibrow:

[Sieg]

happy dance yet? :unibrow:

Didn't get home until 8, my 11 year old daughter had volleyball try-outs tonight. That was worth a happy dance! After 4 years of playing everyone's a winner she's on the A team and the talent level is impressive and they are focused. :woot: :woot:

Just installed the plugs. I'm thinking you nailed it........fingers crossed. Hopefully tomorrow evening. :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

congrats! thats awesome.


don't forget to clear the cylinders before you install them. Where any of them dry?

[Sieg]

congrats! thats awesome.


don't forget to clear the cylinders before you install them. Where any of them dry?

Thanks.

I spun it a while with no plugs and left it open to breath all day.

Some were damper than others.......:D

[GregWeld]

Thanks.

I spun it a while with no plugs and left it open to breath all day.

Some were damper than others.......:D

That's where a little shot of starter fluid will help.... get's her running right now! And the heat will take care of the plugs.

You'll want to change them out anyway after the run in. They might start out fouled and then go glazed on you.

Plus - pulling them and letting us see close ups will help us see anything that might be tell tale.

I always (still) use the strap to tell me if timing is right... but that's a whole 'nuther discussion when we get there.:cheers:

[Sieg]

Interesting........tried to light it this afternoon with the new plugs and I'll assume somewhat dry cylinders, first attempted no throttle and no response, so I gave it a 1 second shot of starting fluid into all venturi's and cranked it and it responded crisply but stumbled and went flat. Repeated the starting fluid procedure and when it acted like it was wanting to light I applied light throttle (visual on the squirters) and it went flat. Repeated the procedure same negative results.

Now I'm wondering if the fuel in the car could have possibly become contaminated? It was clear premium/E10 premium blend from the 1st of Aug. and the gauge shows half a tank.

This is getting silly considering it's a gen 1 tractor motor.......:D

I pulled drivers side valve cover and put the rotor on 1 & 6 and checked the rockers visually and by feel and I'm pretty confident they are adjusted correctly.

Thinking the next step is to try and fire it with starting fluid and feed it with a squirt bottle full of fresh fuel?

:willy:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Sometimes if I get a car with unknown fuel, i'll kill the supply and fill the bowls with fresh fuel but start on starter fluid, no pumping. Should catch on after a few seconds of running. Manually open the throttle and spray the fluid into the bores. Shut, then crank. I see alot of guys just spraying the top of the carb.

You should be fine , that fuel is what... a few months old? Don't worry about the valves they are good for now.

How high is the idle when it does run?
Keep going with the starter fluid. I'd feed it a bit more timing and a little more throttle blade.

[Sieg]

Thanks for chiming in Vince, always appreciated. :thumbsup:

Haven't managed to get it to a point that I have a clue where the idle speed might be.

Never had a bad fuel issue with the car in 23 years and I'm still using the same fuel suppliers. Though with the previous motor you could definitely feel subtle differences between E-10 mid-grade, premium, clear premium and 100 or 110 race gas.

I'll give it a try priming with open throttle and if that doesn't do it I"ll try feeding it some fresh 110 fuel with a small squirt bottle and see what happens.

I had no idea she'd require this much foreplay! LOL

[Vince@Meanstreets]

she's like an old WWII Japanese radio, you gotta hit all them knobs in the right sequence for her to go. LOL

Some are quick some are slow to go.

When it does go, does it rev them drop or does it just go bllluuubbbeeeerrble.

[Sieg]

she's like an old WWII Japanese radio, you gotta hit all them knobs in the right sequence for her to go. LOL

Some are quick some are slow to go.

When it does go, does it rev them drop or does it just go bllluuubbbeeeerrble.

bllluuubbbeeeerrble.........excellent description! Rev only applies to my dog and he's getting frustrated too. :D

[Vince@Meanstreets]

i'd say it needs a bit more timing and spray. Rotate that sucker 1/16 of a turn CCW and 1 turn in on the throttle. Don't be shy, the most she'll do is pop at you or rev.
Its will run better with too much advance than it will with too much retar....timing challenged.

[Sieg]

i'd say it needs a bit more timing and spray. Rotate that sucker 1/16 of a turn CCW and 1 turn in on the throttle. Don't be shy, the most she'll do is pop at you or rev.
Its will run better with too much advance than it will with too much retar....timing challenged.

Maybe I do need Jerry's monkey. :_paranoid

To be continued............

[intocarss]

Put some timing in that thing and fire her up already

[Sieg]

Put some timing in that thing and fire her up already:rofl:
I was thinking of you and cranked it an 1/8 of a turn........she said she had a head ache.

[intocarss]

:rofl:
I was thinking of you and cranked it an 1/8 of a turn........she said she had a head ache.

:thumbsup: :rofl: :rofl:

Today I had to get a 1956 T bird running at work. I was told "she's good to go"! I fire it up and cough, spit, backfire, sputter & stall. I ask if the Timing is correct?? I am told.... "YUP IT IS" I fire it again and cough, spit, backfire, sputter & stall, I put a timing light on it ... I grab ahold of the dist and turned it about a 1/2-3/4" advance (Not telling you to do this)..... she purred like a kitten.. Then had to set points gap and dwell WOW how old am I last time I set points I was 19 and it was my own car LOLOL

[FETorino]

Put some timing in that thing and fire her up already

I'd say hell yea

You could run a locked out dist and start it with 36 deg of timing if your starter is up to it so more timing should be your friend.

[Vegas69]

This car still doesn't run?:lol:

Compression, Timing, Fuel, Spark,

[intocarss]

I'd say hell yea

You could run a locked out dist and start it with 36 deg of timing if your starter is up to it so more timing should be your friend.

This car still doesn't run?:lol:

Compression, Timing, Fuel, Spark,

^^^^^What they said ^^^^^

[Sieg]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--_5b7oMdw8I/T15u1W6mMUI/AAAAAAAALwo/HRPVVYUCBdM/s400/White-Flag-of-Surrender.jpg


:beathorse


Monkeyless in Springtuckey :D

[intocarss]

WTF Put that flag down !! And repeat after me...A CAR WILL NOT DEFEATE ME

[Sieg]

WTF Put that flag down !! And repeat after me...A CAR WILL NOT DEFEATE ME
LOL!

SEND ME YOUR F'N MONKEY ASAP!!!

I'm getting my butt kicked by Briggs & Stratton technology! :rofl: :rofl:

New parts.....
Lifters, guide plates, heads, springs, valves, cam (same grind), distributor, coil, wires, wire looms, intake, carb.........

I've altered the distributor by removing vacuum advance, installing 25* bushing, and quicker advance springs, double checked it and visually it appears ok. But these symptoms almost act like it's out of phase or is it possibly a defective distributor from the beginning.....testing methods? Weak/defective coil?

Checked one hyd. lifter and it was set approx. half turn in from zero lash.

Checked spark output on #1 plug it's not blue but strong yellow/orange?

Double checked TDC against rotor.

Cranked the p*ss out of it, starting fluid, carb squiters........wants to light then goes flat.

Cam degree wrong?

I may just have to take it to the shop that assembled it and say have at it boys. Conveniently they're right across the street from the body shop. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

The Monkey is on his way!! BUT remember he's retarded, (for the PC people it means "mentally challenged") so who knows where he'll end up. Now turn that dist 1/2" CCW and try again

HEY,, would it help if we put a kick starter on it??

[Sieg]

The Monkey is on his way!! BUT remember he's retarded, (for the PC people it means "mentally challenged") so who knows where he'll end up. Now turn that dist 1/2" CCW and try again

HEY,, would it help if we put a kick starter on it??

It's been CCW to where it would just barely turn over with the charger on it, that's far enough isn't it? :D

I'm thinking a hand crank and your cousin's Gorilla might be in order. :unibrow:

[intocarss]

It's been CCW to where it would just barely turn over with the charger on it, that's far enough isn't it? :D

I'm thinking a hand crank and your cousin's Gorilla might be in order. :unibrow: Yup that'll be to far. We don't talk about the Gorilla :willy:

[Sieg]

What are the chance of the new MSD Blaster SS coil being bad?
I put the ohm meter on +/- w/ meter on 200 omh = 0.8
On +/secondary w/ meter on 20K ohm = 4.49
--------------------
MSD specs for coil:

Turns ratio: 70:1

Primary resistance: .355 OHMs

Secondary resistance: 4.4K OHMs

Inductance: 6.9 mH

Maximum voltage: 40,000 Volts

Peak current: 300 mA

Spark duration: 220 uS
---------------------------

Other possible defective items could be distributor's internal module, magnetic pick-up, and reluctor?

Anyone familiar with testing procedures for these?

[carbuff]

When I tried to start the engine in my Camaro way back in the day, I spent a whole day trying to figure out what was wrong (it was fuel injected, so I was focused on all the potential issues with that), and it turned out that my MSD 6AL was bad. I just replaced it, when I felt like I had ruled out everything else and realized that I didn't have spark...

Good luck!

[Sieg]

I think I found it! The resistor wire in the stock loom is the problem. I need to run a 12V lead switched off the ignition........

Now, have I washed the motor down enough to create an issue with the cam. :_paranoid

Hopefully not.

More later.

[glassman]

I had that same problem with my boat, it fired though, but when u got on it, it stumbled. Hope u get it goin today!

[WSSix]

Could be that you need the full 12v. Have you verified spark at the plugs or at the end of the plug wires? Just pull a screw driver or nail into the end of the plug wire and set the nail close to the block or a spark plug crank the engine.

[Sieg]

So I cut the new wire loom apart and replaced the wire from the bulkhead junction to the coil w/16 ga. and.........it still acts like it doesn't want to light. According to the wiring diagram the resistor wire terminates at the bulkhead. Am I reading it wrong?

[Roberts68]

No, I think you are reading it right. I replaced my original resistor wire a couple years back. It does not continue into the cabin beyond the bulkhead connector like that. Mine was a silver (aluminum?) Conductor with a white braided insulation.

Hang in there buddy, wish I had a solution for you.:cheers:

[Sieg]

No, I think you are reading it right. I replaced my original resistor wire a couple years back. It does not continue into the cabin beyond the bulkhead connector like that. Mine was a silver (aluminum?) Conductor with a white braided insulation.

Hang in there buddy, wish I had a solution for you.:cheers:
Thanks for the info. I'm doing fine, I tried it about 6 times, lit one good fire in the carb and walked away to fresh pesto artichoke and chicken thincrust pizza and an ice cold silver bullet. :thumbsup:

[FETorino]

Thanks for the info. I'm doing fine, I tried it about 6 times, lit one good fire in the carb and walked away to fresh pesto artichoke and chicken thincrust pizza and an ice cold silver bullet. :thumbsup:

Sweet I'm glad to see you figured it out. I was sure this was your problem.:D
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/seig-1.jpg

[Sieg]

Sweet I'm glad to see you figured it out. I was sure this was your problem.:D
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/seig-1.jpg
http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/action-smiley-027.gif

We know how the Camaro vs Mustang thing pans out, but we ain't played Camaro's and Torino's yet have we? :D

[GregWeld]

I hope the RESISTOR wire doesn't go to ANY resistor unless you're so old fashioned that you still have a points distributor...

I'm beginning to wonder is you have power (Ignition) after you release the key... so you have power while you're in crank/start mode - and you're dropping power in the "run" position? That would drop power to the coil... and kill any hopes of firing off.


Just thinking out loud here.

[Sieg]

I hope the RESISTOR wire doesn't go to ANY resistor unless you're so old fashioned that you still have a points distributor...

I'm beginning to wonder is you have power (Ignition) after you release the key... so you have power while you're in crank/start mode - and you're dropping power in the "run" position? That would drop power to the coil... and kill any hopes of firing off.


Just thinking out loud here.
No ballast resistor.

The key circuit is a very good thought.......I'll research that tomorrow.

In reflecting on my trouble shooting I've focused more on problems and solutions than symptoms and probable causes at times.....if that makes sense.

Thanks :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

I'm wondering which engine harness was installed in the car and what alterations could have been made. I need to confirm the brand, part number, and optional harnesses and blueprint the current configuration.

:goofy:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Sorry, I thought I had read that you had spark earlier.

[Sieg]

Sorry, I thought I had read that you had spark earlier.

Not a problem........I did, but it was yellow which had my attention. After replacing the resistor wire and attempting to fire without starting fluid and getting similar results...........Greg's comment about the ignition switch makes sense with the symptoms. And there's no real rush as I'm on an extended vacation now. :unibrow:

[intocarss]

Maybe run 12v from the battery straight to the coil and see if she fires. you'll have to remove the 12v wire from the battery for it to shut off

[Sieg]

Maybe run 12v from the battery straight to the coil and see if she fires. you'll have to remove the 12v wire from the battery for it to shut off

Looks like it's time to give the wife an active role in the project. :unibrow:

Haven't had a chance to work on it today, busy building the relationship with the Dane in anticipation of adoption.

I want to thoroughly understand what's going where with that engine harness, there was a yellow wire that was altered by the body shop :_paranoid

[intocarss]

Looks like it's time to give the wife an active role in the project. :unibrow:

Haven't had a chance to work on it today, busy building the relationship with the Dane in anticipation of adoption.

I want to thoroughly understand what's going where with that engine harness, there was a yellow wire that was altered by the body shop :_paranoid That makes sense to find the issue. Nice thing you're doing for that Dane.. Does REV aprove??

[Sieg]

That makes sense to find the issue. Nice thing you're doing for that Dane.. Does REV aprove??I'm a slow learner but once I understand look out. :rofl:

Never met a bad dog only one's that have been screwed up by humans. I'm in a position to be able to devote some time to this guy and he looks and acts like it will be well worth the effort. Very interesting breed!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-zZBQH2V/0/L/i-zZBQH2V-L.jpg

Rev will adapt but it appears do to shear sizedifference his best defense is a good offense. :D Think about it from his perspective........it's like Greg and his new truck. :rofl:

[glassman]

Oh, that's harsh. But funny. Good one.

Back to the problem, I got a harness for my chevelle that "would fire when the key was between the start and run position, indicating that it was a " different type" of wiring harness, leaving me seriously confused, till I ran a constant 12v to my hei. It was a switching issue with the hei as that's what our cars never came with, let alone the resistance issue....might be your prob.

Keep us posted. Btw, my two labs only want to hang in the garage with me till I fire it up..lol..then they run inside

[intocarss]

I'm a slow learner but once I understand look out. Look out for what??:willy:

Never met a bad dog only one's that have been screwed up by humans. I'm in a position to be able to devote some time to this guy and he looks and acts like it will be well worth the effort. Very interesting breed!


So true.. My friend has had Great Danes all his life, great dogs and I know he'll have a great home with you Congrats!!


Rev will adapt but it appears do to shear size difference his best defense is a good offense. Think about it from his perspective........it's like Greg and his new truck.

You made me spit up again :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Now can we get back on track :_paranoid

[Sieg]

You made me spit up again :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Now can we get back on track :_paranoid

:unibrow:

Yes we can get back on track. Tucker was coming into the garage and getting comfortable this afternoon. Considering his sensitivity and reputation for bolting I really don't want to fire the car with open headers right now and have him bolt through a door or wall. :thumbsup:

I'll work on the education side it's quieter.

[glassman]

Funny, my white lab is tucker. Fat and lazy and sooo cool

[Sieg]

Funny, my white lab is tucker. Fat and lazy and sooo cool

:thumbsup: :cheers:

[GregWeld]

Great find Scott!

You may need my truck to haul Tucker around!!


Now --- is that motor runnin' yet?


You've been goofing off with dogs... while I scrubbed off a complete set of PZeros.... and had Arie Luyendyk Jr drive the R8. He drove faster one handed in automatic mode while talking on the handheld - than I could with full concentration... I hate those guys!

Now off to SEMA!

Get that thing runnin' !!:rolleyes:

[Sieg]

Thanks Greg, Tucker would not be out of scale riding on the deck of big white.

Just looked in the garage..........it's not runnin' yet.

Too much fun erasing good tires on track in an R8, life's good my friend! :thumbsup:

Jr. has a little more seat time. Braking-chassis balance-throttle-rythmn..........and relaxing to let it happen. :fluffy:

Have a great time at SEMA, really wanted to make this one for numerous reasons.

It will run.....besides it's the hunt not the kill that's fun. :unibrow:

[intocarss]

NORWOOD HAS GONE TO THE DOGS :rolleyes:

[Sieg]

NORWOOD HAS GONE TO THE DOGS :rolleyes:

For a little while........

Rev is adjusting well today, they've started playing a little since Tucker's feet are feeling better.........enough that Tucker played trucker this morning and I had to jump in the car to head him off. Couldn't get him close enough to leash him but stayed very positive and gentle and redirected him and he took off headed back towards the house as I followed in the truck........then he took a right turn and I'm thinking he's off but he came back into sight and headed to the house and into the backyard and was sitting at the door when I got there........ With the length of a Dane's stride they can put distance between you fast! He must have known I ordered him his own invisible fence collar about a half-house prior. The positive was he headed back HOME. He's already taking ownership and guarding when he notices any sound or activity outside.

Tomorrow we'll see if they'll be good "shop" dogs.

[intocarss]

For a little while........

Rev is adjusting well today, they've started playing a little since Tucker's feet are feeling better.........enough that Tucker played trucker this morning and I had to jump in the car to head him off. Couldn't get him close enough to leash him but stayed very positive and gentle and redirected him and he took off headed back towards the house as I followed in the truck........then he took a right turn and I'm thinking he's off but he came back into sight and headed to the house and into the backyard and was sitting at the door when I got there........ With the length of a Dane's stride they can put distance between you fast! He must have known I ordered him his own invisible fence collar about a half-house prior. The positive was he headed back HOME. He's already taking ownership and guarding when he notices any sound or activity outside.

Tomorrow we'll see if they'll be good "shop" dogs.

Sounds like he is adjusting nicely :woot:

[WSSix]

The best thing about a Great Dane is they typically make people crap themselves, lol. For that reason alone they make good guard dogs. Their bark is typically very intimidating as well.

My friends had three pit bull mixes, they were actually very nice dogs with the one being very timid. Anyway, they didn't lock the door to their house. The dogs liked sleeping on the couch during the day which was in full view of anyone on the porch approaching the front door. :D

[Sieg]

Took him to the country club today and walked him up to the front doors of the pro-shop......that was worth a lot of attention and conversation. His head out the truck window draws a few looks too. They have such a WOW factor due to their size........fact is I wouldn't want to sneak up on Tucker in the house and yell BOO because I think he'd crap himself.......big scaredy dog. :D

[intocarss]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/1291131680_two-thumbs-up.jpg

[Sieg]

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-MhZ8CSn/0/L/i-MhZ8CSn-L.jpg
Thought I might have found something with the bulkhead connection. Spades looked like they might not have been correctly aligned. Realigned them and cautiously connected it.

Nadda.......:mad:

So I've.......triple checked TDC, rotor & crank position, distributor wiring, plug wiring, power to the both sides of the coil with key in run position, fuses all look good.

With the key in the run position and power to coil eliminates the need to test with a jumper from battery to coil right?

Possible poor core support ground due to lack of fenders effecting voltage regulator shouldn't be an issue should it?

Could it possibly be a bad coil or distributor? :(

[WSSix]

With the key in the run position and power to coil eliminates the need to test with a jumper from battery to coil right?



Correct.


Sorry it's not firing still. I'm out of ideas without being there.

[intocarss]

Correct.


Sorry it's not firing still. I'm out of ideas without being there. X2 ^^

[glassman]

Block grounded?

[Sieg]

Block grounded?

Solid motor mounts. :(

[intocarss]

Hey Siegla I have a MSD coil and dist out of my car ( I know it works) I can send you if you want to try it out

[Vince@Meanstreets]

scratch test that MSD box first.

[intocarss]

scratch test that MSD box first.

Scratch N Snif??? :_paranoid

[GregWeld]

You short the tach lead to ground and you should have fire.
So just make a test lead - connect to the tach connection of the MSD. And short it to ground. Each time you strike ground you should get a firing event out if the box.

[Sieg]

Hey Siegla I have a MSD coil and dist out of my car ( I know it works) I can send you if you want to try it out
Thanks Jer, much appreciated. I'm going to talk with MSD tech tomorrow and see what they have to say about it first. :thumbsup:

I tried registering on their forum a couple weeks ago, they haven't confirmed the registration yet. Hopefully they're better on the phone.

scratch test that MSD box first.
Vince - No box just the Ready to Run 8360 distributor and Blaster II coil.

You short the tach lead to ground and you should have fire.
So just make a test lead - connect to the tach connection of the MSD. And short it to ground. Each time you strike ground you should get a firing event out if the box.With the questionable reputation of the 6 Series boxes if I had one that would have been towards the top of the suspect list. I'm leaning to defective electrics in the distributor/coil but certainly not eliminating the fact that fault may lie with my lack of electrical knowledge. At this point I'd be glad to be embarrased in front of the entire forum to get it fired. :D

On a more critical note how was the level of competition at OUSCI?

[Sieg]

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vRWDxxg/0/L/i-vRWDxxg-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jMPN4X6/0/L/i-jMPN4X6-L.jpg

Inadequate GROUND!

:goofy:

I'm sitting on the dunk tank seat.........start throwing. :D

[makoshark]

SHE'S ALIVE!!!!!

Glad to hear you finally got it fired up. I think I would have shot the motor long ago. Congrats on getting her done and your patience through it all.

[Ron in SoCal]

Way to go Sieg! You know it's always something simple, finding it is the hard part :cheers:

[waynieZ]

SWEET ! Glad to see and hear it up and running!

[GregWeld]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



DUDE! That was like giving birth to a 16 pound baby!


So much EFFORT! But worth it!


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

PZMP6GAy568

:willy: :willy: :willy: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :willy: :willy: :willy:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

not to be a debbi downer pointer out er of potential future ground issues but your gonna grommetize that tach lead right?

way to go buddy!!! sounds good.:thumbsup:

[Roberts68]

:woot:
I was scrolling down on mmy phone, saw that ground into the aluminum intake and thought :_paranoid. Hmmmmm...okay?

Then the video and explanation! :cheers:

Congrats on squashing the bug:thumbsup:

Keep the updates coming! You haven't "gone to the dogs" after all!:rofl:

[Sieg]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/rilla.gif

The..........:drama:.........is OVER!

SHE'S ALIVE!!!!!

Glad to hear you finally got it fired up. I think I would have shot the motor long ago. Congrats on getting her done and your patience through it all.Thank you!

Way to go Sieg! You know it's always something simple, finding it is the hard part :cheers:
Thanks Ron. :thumbsup:
SWEET ! Glad to see and hear it up and running!Varoom vroom!


DUDE! That was like giving birth to a 16 pound BREECH baby!

........and it didn't grenade in the 30 minute break-in, no leaks, NO FIRES! Throttle response feels good looking forward to seeing what the heads, intake, and carb upgrade feel like. Too bad the fire kept me from the "before" dyno session I had planned. But I don't need a sheet of paper to tell me it's better or worse. :unibrow:

:willy: :willy: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :willy: :willy:A fricken ground...........old school old fart discounted how sensitive modern electronics are.........if it was an LS it might have taken this idiot a year. :D

I set the ignition at 12* for break-in and richened the air circuit and idle mixuture screws. It almost hit a peak of 190* and oil pressure at 2K was 38 psi.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2GMBPGP/0/M/i-2GMBPGP-M.jpg

After the run in I set the idle at 950ish and initial at 16* and shut it down without any run on. 16* intial gives me a total of 41* at 3,750.

No discoloration on the new Doug's Headers either!
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dWGQqz2/0/L/i-dWGQqz2-L.jpg

[intocarss]

CONGRATS and happy for you.. Now have some Cool Whip!!

[Sieg]

CONGRATS and happy for you.. Now have some Cool Whip!!

Just for you JerDawg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-3z72RXh/0/L/i-3z72RXh-L.jpg

[GregWeld]

After the run in I set the idle at 950ish and initial at 16* and shut it down without any run on. 16* intial gives me a total of 41* at 3,750.



That's too much timing IMHO for a small block with good heads.... With the 18* stop bushing - I'd set it for 36* of total with 18* of initial.

Of course the old drag way of doing this would be to read the plug strap and see if the discoloration changes right in the center of the bend of the strap...

Todays head designs need less total timing - and todays gas also like less timing.... Of course the only real way to know what it "wants" is a dyno... and timing is far more important for performance than A/F ratios.

[ccracin]

That's too much timing IMHO for a small block with good heads.... With the 18* stop bushing - I'd set it for 36* of total with 18* of initial.

Of course the old drag way of doing this would be to read the plug strap and see if the discoloration changes right in the center of the bend of the strap...

Todays head designs need less total timing - and todays gas also like less timing.... Of course the only real way to know what it "wants" is a dyno... and timing is far more important for performance than A/F ratios.

I agree with Greg here buddy! When we ran our circle track engines on the dyno, they loved 40*. That was with 043 Cast Iron BowTie heads and 10.5:1. As soon as we tested a better set of aluminum heads on the same short block and cam we were down to 38* total. I think all you are doing now is making heat. Glad to hear it singing! Congrats! :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Thanks guys. :thumbsup:

My unknown is the compression ratio....I'm guessing it dropped some with the AFR heads as they are the larger chamber but have been decked. My plan is to pay close attention to how the motor sounds and feels, check plug readings, and figure out by traditional means what is too much timing.

With the lumpy cam the motor seemed to settle in to a comfort zone at 14-16* initial and it shut down without a hint of run-on. Once I get the exhaust hooked up and can tinker with it some who knows on total timing and curve rate until I can put a load on it. 12* intial 36-37* total is the SBC benchmark based on this MSD video but that motor also had 10.5:1 comp and if I'm lucky I'm at 9.5:1.

Factoring the lumpy cam, modern fuel, and lower compression don't you think I can be a little more aggressive with timing and not melt it down?

I'm guessing one of these combo's 12+21=33 - 14+21=35 - 16+21=37 - 12+25=37 - 14+25=39. I'll play it by feel and ear to see what it likes for initial with closed exhaust and go from there to find this motor's sweet spots.........make sense?

[Sieg]

I agree with Greg here buddy! When we ran our circle track engines on the dyno, they loved 40*. That was with 043 Cast Iron BowTie heads and 10.5:1. As soon as we tested a better set of aluminum heads on the same short block and cam we were down to 38* total. I think all you are doing now is making heat. Glad to hear it singing! Congrats! :thumbsup:Thanks Chad, what were you running for initial?

Gotta love Weldapedia. :)

[GregWeld]

Here's what I'm thinkin' should be your next project!





c4g2bp_gZDE#!

[ccracin]

Thanks Chad, what were you running for initial?

Gotta love Weldapedia. :)

Unfortunately that won't transition. We only had about 15* of advance. It was just enough to get it started. Initial was about 25*. Some guys locked it out at 40* with no advance. We were running restricted small blocks and wanted every ounce to get out of the corners. Keep at it, you'll get it where you want it. :cheers:

[intocarss]

Just for you JerDawg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-3z72RXh/0/L/i-3z72RXh-L.jpg

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[cencalc6]

Congrats,The new engine sounds really nice.

[Flash68]

Nice to see it was something so simple (and free). :D

Sounds and looks great man. :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

My grandma would have revved it higher than that.

[Sieg]

My grandma would have revved it higher than that.LOL :thumbsup:

Don't worry Big Boy, now that the Flintstone's cam is broken in I'll make sure the rings are properly seated on first test drive, then we'll test the rev limiter. :unibrow:

[Sieg]

Nice to see it was something so simple (and free). :D

Sounds and looks great man. :thumbsup:
Thank you......but I'm looking forward to hearing what a real motor sounds like. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Congrats,The new engine sounds really nice.

Thanks! I was so glad to hear it fire on all cylinders that the rest was just a bonus! LOL

[Sieg]

Timing is now set at 12* for 37* total. Cleaned up some wire routing and it will be picked up this evening and back to the shop for completion.

Also spoke with MSD Tech regarding the Blaster SS coil mounts, he said the failures are typically due to over tightening the mounts. Snug with Loctite is the proper solution..........supposedly. :D

Now I get to spend the afternoon sorting and itemizing receipts for the insurance vs. owner obligations. :thumbsup:

[Roberts68]

That is great to hear that Norwood is soon going to be back in one piece.
:thumbsup:

Can you explain a bit about the valve you have in your brakes besides a proportioning valve? I think it was a metering valve that you said applies the rear just a bit prior to the fronts.

I'm not sure how "track" oriented that mod is and if there are some negatives I should be aware of. If you have a sketch of your plumbing I would love to see it. As I recall we have mostly the same components.

Thanks!
Robert

[Sieg]

That is great to hear that Norwood is soon going to be back in one piece.
:thumbsup:

Can you explain a bit about the valve you have in your brakes besides a proportioning valve? I think it was a metering valve that you said applies the rear just a bit prior to the fronts.

I'm not sure how "track" oriented that mod is and if there are some negatives I should be aware of. If you have a sketch of your plumbing I would love to see it. As I recall we have mostly the same components.

Thanks!
Robert

Thanks Robert.

The stock metering valve is retained when using drum brakes, it directs pressure to the rear brakes slightly ahead of front brake.

The red valve is a 10 lbs residual valve. Here's Wilwoods description:
Wilwood ten pound residual pressure valves retain a minimum brake line pressure to help eliminate excessive pedal travel in drum brake systems. With drum brakes, a ten pound valve is used to compensate for return spring tension and maintain wheel cylinder sealing in the drums. Residual Pressure Valves are made from billet aluminum and color coded for easy identification.

Here's the proportioning valve, the drawing shows the frt/rear in/out so you can figure out the plumbing: http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderProd.aspx?itemno=260-11179

[Roberts68]

It is all coming back to me... slowly.:P

That wilwood link either did not play nice with my mobile or just didn't like me. I got your basic Wilwood product search page.

I have the red valve for rear drums you mentioned. I have the Wilwood combination distribution block and Proportioning valve. You lost me at stock metering valve retained.

Where does that typically reside? Mine was a manual drum/drum car and is a '68 if that makes a difference.

I thought way back months ago when I had noticed our similar parts (albeit mine for "Someday" reside in boxes yet) I could have sworn you had a brass colored aftermarket metering valve... or at least I remember looking one up in Speedway. Maybe I did not see it on Norwood?.. or maybe after 40 I just make $hit up to confuse myself and share it with others.:_paranoid

[WSSix]

Congrats on getting the car running Scott :thumbsup: As frustrating as it was, I'm glad it was something simple.

[Sieg]

Robert,

Your drum/drum car probably didn't have a metering valve.

Check this Wilwood proportioning valve, it has metered valving for drums.........if you plan on staying with the drums this would be a cleaner installation than using the GM metering valve which is over $100.
http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderProd.aspx?itemno=260-11322

Here is a GM metering valve:
http://www.classicindustries.com/camaro/parts/pv68.html

[Sieg]

Congrats on getting the car running Scott :thumbsup: As frustrating as it was, I'm glad it was something simple.

Thanks Trey..........frustratingly simple. http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/confused58.gif

[Vince@Meanstreets]

How does it drive? : D

[Sieg]

How does it drive? : D
Loaded into the trailer last night to go back to the shop to get the front clip reinstalled, exhaust connected, and a few other misc. items. It felt pretty good feathering the clutch up the ramp and into the trailer. Neighbors probably thought it was a little loud though. :D

[Roberts68]

Robert,
Your drum/drum car probably didn't have a metering valve.
That is a distinct possibility I would go along with. I do have a distribution block that was off the master but it did not appear to be any more than a junction block to me.
...Wilwood proportioning valve... http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderProd.aspx?itemno=260-11179

That is the same combo-prop valve I have at Tobin's recommendation. We had spoke of your car before I ever saw it here. I actually originally found your thread in a Google image search for prop valve mounting ideas.

How does it drive? : D
You may have more willpower than me... or possibly Vince. Either he was teasing you or like me he would have been tempted take at least a brief rip with open wheels given the chance. You'll be flogging it again in no time though, as I prepare my snowblower.:rolleyes:

[intocarss]

Your name is Scott?? :yes:

[Sieg]

That is the Wilwood 260-11322 link again rather than the GM part. Don't sweat it on my account though. just FYI

http://www.classicindustries.com/camaro/parts/pv68.html
I edited my post so someone doesn't get messed up, could do the same in the quote? :)

If you have that Wilwood prop valve it's has the metering delay built in so you're good to go. I didn't want that one because I'm going to rear disc in the future.

[Sieg]

Your name is Scott?? :yes:My friends call me Sieg :yes: :D

[Roberts68]

If you have that Wilwood prop valve it's has the metering delay built in so you're good to go. I didn't want that one because I'm going to rear disc in the future.


:_paranoid I did not know this one had built in metering for drum that would be a detriment to disc later? I looked back at my emails and I do have Wilwood Combination distribution block/proportioning valve 260-11179

Not necessary to muddy your thread with this, I can defer to Tobin at Kore3 to verify. I appreciate your help though, better to raise questions now than replumb later.:willy:

[intocarss]

My friends call me Sieg :yes: :D OK then I'll call you Jim :woot:

[Sieg]

OK then I'll call you Jim :woot:

Works for me Richard! :woot: :woot:

[intocarss]

Works for me Richard! :woot: :woot: HA HA HA that's perfect cuz I have been called a D*ck :unibrow: :P

[Sieg]

HA HA HA that's perfect cuz I have been called a D*ck :unibrow: :P

Dick Cranium? :D

[DFRESH]

Congrats bro----that is great news! And the motor and engine bay looks great btw. Hope everything else goes smoothly--------ya, I know--but I can wish if for you at least. At least your shifter doesn't leak anymore.

D

[Sieg]

Congrats bro----that is great news! And the motor and engine bay looks great btw. Hope everything else goes smoothly--------ya, I know--but I can wish if for you at least. At least your shifter doesn't leak anymore.

D

Thanks Doug, very much appreciated. :thumbsup:

Exhaust was reconnected yesterday and I turned in all my itemized reciepts so if all goes well it may be complete next week. Aug. 8 was when it went into the shop, doesn't feel like it's been 3+ months.

Overall for a low budget surprise project I'm satisfied with the results to date. Verdict is still out on the motor and the winter weather is here so Redneck style test and tuning will be weather permitting for the next 5-6 months. :D

No shifter leaks and more importantly no front oil pan leak which the car has had since I bought it 20+ years ago!

All said and done it has gone very well, Todd Fortier of Todd's Autobody has been a pleasure to deal with. There have been no tense moments or conflicts through the project with the silly ground issue being the only minor frustration.

The support of the :lateral: family really helps in projects of this nature. The support wether it's techical, emotional, harassing, or off-topic humor is invaluable. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

Congrats Jimieg!! And we'll want some tire smokn videos when she's all ready! LAT-GTTFMF's

[GregWeld]

The support of the :lateral: family really helps in projects of this nature. The support wether it's techical, emotional, harassing, or off-topic humor is invaluable. :thumbsup:



I feel so emotional right now....




<rummaging around in my bag looking for "the bird" icon>


:thumbsup:

[Sieg]

I feel so emotional right now....

<rummaging around in my bag looking for "the bird" icon>

:thumbsup:
.........and I feel obligated to help considering all the assistance you've generously shared whether it's cars, welding, financial, and so much more.

http://www.acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/finger.gif


http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/Rogue.gif

Seriously........thank you, the AFR's made this all worthwhile. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

OwYQsZuh2CM&feature=related

[WSSix]

Threads like this make me question if I should wait until my car is finally finished before I post any pictures :D


So do you have an expected "completion" date? Maybe an early X-mas gift perhaps?

[Sieg]

Congrats Jimieg!! And we'll want some tire smokn videos when she's all ready! LAT-GTTFMF'sYou know it!
Us Orygunian's are a little slow on acronyms......TTFMF's? :(

[Sieg]

Threads like this make me question if I should wait until my car is finally finished before I post any pictures :D


So do you have an expected "completion" date? Maybe an early X-mas gift perhaps?

Chicken!

Trey - I'm guessing it should be out of the shop by the end of next week. :thumbsup:

Tucker is the early Christmas gift, found out his birthday is 12-23-2010. :D

[WSSix]

Awesome! Glad you'll get it back so soon.

[Roberts68]

So? Will Norwood make it home in time for Turkey Dinner?:D

[Sieg]

So? Will Norwood make it home in time for Turkey Dinner?:D
Looks like he'll be attending :thumbsup:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hSGW6jz/0/L/i-hSGW6jz-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8qC94cF/0/L/i-8qC94cF-L.jpg

[intocarss]

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET :yes: :yes:

[Roberts68]

That is great news!:woot:

[GregWeld]

It's for sale.....


Tucker won't fit so a new long roof car is probably in order....:lol: :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET :yes: :yes:
GoPro video to follow...........weather pending!
That is great news!:woot:
YES! :cheers:
It's for sale.....


Tucker won't fit so a new long roof car is probably in order....:lol: :thumbsup:
Nope!

With the rear seat removed he'll be comfy-cozy at least I think his head will fit out the quarter window. I could just yank the passenger seat, that would get a few looks in traffic. :D


Thanks guys, the thoughts are truly appreciated. :thumbsup:

[FETorino]

Wow you're going to have a running Camaro this year:thumbsup:

You'll be the envy of Dave, Ron and Matt :unibrow:

:cheers:

[Sieg]

Wow you're going to have a running Camaro this year:thumbsup:

You'll be the envy of Ron and Matt :unibrow:

:cheers:

LOL! You left out Dave. :unibrow:

[WSSix]

Glad to see it coming along.

[FETorino]

LOL! You left out Dave. :unibrow:

I thought DG quit building that..... Really no updates lately:rolleyes:

[Sieg]

Glad to see it coming along.

Thanks Trey :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

I thought DG quit building that..... Really no updates lately:rolleyes:
That should be bait him away from the dishes and ironing board............say around 12:30 am :rolleyes:

[Vegas69]

It's still not out of the question that my car will be running before the California triplets. The car that I haven't thought about, decided upon, purchased, or built. :lol:

[Flash68]

Man that color pops in that picture. Looks so fresh and sweet! :thumbsup:

LOL! You left out Dave. :unibrow:

RUDE! :lol:

[Roberts68]

RUDE! :lol:

Hmmmm... he objects to honorable mention but does not deny bearing the yoke of household chores late into the night in lieu of garage time. Yup, sounds 'bout like marital bliss. :lol:
This commentary brought to you by the guy who calls his car "Someday"!:rofl:

[fleetus macmullitz]

Sieg,

Glad to see you kept your head up and plowed through those firing issues. :D

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/wnyjazz/anigif_enhanced-buzz-28185-13512790.gif

[Sieg]

Sieg,

Glad to see you kept your head up and plowed through those firing issues. :D

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/wnyjazz/anigif_enhanced-buzz-28185-13512790.gif
Thanks Skipper! Very appropriate .gif since it was a ground issue. :lol:

[Sieg]

i have an rc8 also...fun bike
Have you seen the 1290 Super Duke R? :unibrow:
http://youtu.be/6h1e9oulMd8

[Sieg]

Close!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-F6GCddx/0/L/i-F6GCddx-L.jpg

[fleetus macmullitz]

Close!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-F6GCddx/0/L/i-F6GCddx-L.jpg

Your goal is obtainable. :unibrow:

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/wnyjazz/anigif_enhanced-buzz-28172-13518070.gif

[GregWeld]

Sweet!

[Sieg]

Your goal is obtainable. :unibrow:

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/wnyjazz/anigif_enhanced-buzz-28172-13518070.gif
Skip is there a .gif or video clip you don't have in the library?! :thumbsup:

Sweet!
Thanks GW........hopefully the motor is a step above a pedal car. :D

Thinking out loud after looking at the last picture........
Considering the blackout theme of the car, would the front end visual be improved with:
-JW Speaker headlights
-Smoked turn signal lenses
-Orange Bow-Tie in the grille vs. factory blue
???

[Flash68]

If it was mine I'd blacken the bowtie and leave the lenses as is. But you'll get 100 opinions on this kind of deal. :D

[Sieg]

If it was mine I'd blacken the bowtie and leave the lenses as is. But you'll get 100 opinions on this kind of deal. :D
I hope so! It's entertaining to hear other's perspectives. Black was my other thought on the tie. :thumbsup:

[fleetus macmullitz]

Skip is there a .gif or video clip you don't have in the library?! :thumbsup:



I have none of me actually doing work real men get paid to do.




:lol:

[GregWeld]

If it was mine -- I'd send it to The Roadster Shop and have 'em make me a killer Torino.




The bugs don't give a hoot about what they bonzai into.... just drive it.

[intocarss]

Norwood Is Close To Terrorising The Byways And Highways Of America

[Sieg]

If it was mine -- I'd send it to The Roadster Shop and have 'em make me a killer Torino.

The bugs don't give a hoot about what they bonzai into.... just drive it.
Roadster Shop? Thought they made old pickups and coups. :woot:

Ain't many bugs left pardner, and the way the weather report looks I'm hoping I don't have to mount up some Blizzak's for the first drive. :D

Thanks to the holiday the insurance adjuster isn't going to make it for the final inspection until Mon/Tue. Turkey Day may be the last good day this month........Crap. :willy:

[Sieg]

Norwood Is Close To Terrorising The Byways And Highways Of America

Backroads son, backroads.......the backyard is full of them. :yes:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

If it was mine I'd blacken the bowtie and leave the lenses as is. But you'll get 100 opinions on this kind of deal. :D

yep, done

[Roberts68]

You might consider picking up another stock style bowtie or 2 to play with, then Norwood can change his attire to match his shoes.

I think a black one might get rather lost unless the chrome border helps.

Billet comes to mind but what would compliment that?

Orange is not far off from the red Earnhardt//Heartbeat era ones. Might work well, might work against.

Have you considered going "no tie"?

[Sieg]

Have you considered going "no tie"?
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-S33jM8F/0/O/i-S33jM8F.jpg

:unibrow:

[Roberts68]

:drool: Uh, I'm sorry... what were we talking about?

:D

[Sieg]

:drool: Uh, I'm sorry... what were we talking about?

:D
Subtle styling ques that discreetly attract attention and create a positive, memorable, and lasting first impression. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Subtle styling ques that discreetly attract attention and create a positive, memorable, and lasting first impression. :thumbsup:





So...... you mean..... like this?? Another '69 Camaro.... not so much.


:D


http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-S33jM8F/0/O/i-S33jM8F.jpg

:unibrow:

[Sieg]

So...... you mean..... like this?? Another '69 Camaro.... not so much.


:D

The discussion was about front ends and headlights right?

For some reason that's one photo I haven't been able to delete. :unibrow:

[FETorino]

If it was mine -- I'd send it to The Roadster Shop and have 'em make me a killer Torino.

Now that makes sense:D


The bugs don't give a hoot about what they bonzai into.... just drive it.

Running first, bling second.......:cheers:


http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-S33jM8F/0/O/i-S33jM8F.jpg

[Sieg]

Running first, bling second.......:cheers:


Let's see your motor is sitting somewhere and your car is at one of the premier PT bling shops????

:rolleyes:

[FETorino]

Let's see your motor is sitting somewhere and your car is at one of the premier PT bling shops????

:rolleyes:

Where they are doing no external sheetmetal work:unibrow:

They are ensuring I can hide everything in a stock looking shell:D

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-S33jM8F/0/O/i-S33jM8F.jpg

[intocarss]

They are ensuring I can hide everything in a stock looking shell:DCheater!! :thumbsup:

[FETorino]

Cheater!! :thumbsup:

only if you get caught :rofl:

[WSSix]

Why do I get the feeling people are being quoted just to make sure the picture below keeps getting reposted?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-S33jM8F/0/O/i-S33jM8F.jpg

[Sieg]

Where they are doing no external sheetmetal work:unibrow:

They are ensuring I can hide everything in a stock looking shell:D

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-S33jM8F/0/O/i-S33jM8F.jpg
A Torino without a RS Chassis would be pointless.........:rofl:

Like them boobies don't ya, or is it the hat? :unibrow:

[FETorino]

Nice 69 Camaro like how you........
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/yawn2.jpghttp://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/yawning-is-contageous-thumb.jpghttp://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n13/mcwhorterfamily/yawn.jpg

[Sieg]

OK, you win :D Let's get back to what ever this dime a dozen thread was about. :thumbsup:

[FETorino]

OK, you win :D Let's get back to what ever this dime a dozen thread was about. :thumbsup:

Anyone on this thread building the car they want is winning my friend.:D

Now black out that bowtie and the front bumper so it matches the rear.:unibrow:


I was stoked to dive into my motor on dyno day swapping intakes and jetting carbs and busting knuckles. Good times.:thumbsup:
Props to you on your hard work on your car.
:cheers:

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-z9WHmLs/0/L/IMGP6589-L.jpg

[Sieg]

You HAD to use that picture didn't you!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:thumbsup:

:cheers:

[GregWeld]

Ouch!


:willy: :willy: :rofl:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Why do I get the feeling people are being quoted just to make sure the picture below keeps getting reposted?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-S33jM8F/0/O/i-S33jM8F.jpg

don't know what you are talking about....now I have a place to hang my keys :/

[FETorino]

I thought this car was going to be running this week.:_paranoid

Did you paint that front bumper and bowtie Black yet?

:cheers:

[Sieg]

Waiting on the State Farm adjuster................weather was perfect this afternoon too. :(

I'm not going to lite a fire under his bum considering the adds to their initial estimate.....not including my upgrades.

[FETorino]

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-S33jM8F/0/O/i-S33jM8F.jpg

Uhhhhh. What did you say:_paranoid

[Sieg]

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-S33jM8F/0/O/i-S33jM8F.jpg

Uhhhhh. What did you say:_paranoid

Most of my comments have been pointless since posting that pic. :D

[dug]

Most of my comments have been pointless since posting that pic. :D


I just wanted to add to the.....pointlessness. Pun intended :D

[intocarss]

Circles are pointless

[GregWeld]

Circles are pointless



Unless I see some real work being done.... so is this thread! :rofl:

[Sieg]

Unless I see some real work being done.... so is this thread! :rofl:

I stopped by the shop this morning...........does that count? Adjuster will hopefully respond this afternoon to the "allegations" submitted first of last week. Rain scheduled to arrive at 4 pm so I'd guess he'll reply around then. :D

[GregWeld]

I stopped by the shop this morning...........does that count?



After giving it some thought..... NO!


I went out to "the shed" to show a buddy the Freightliner - but since I didn't touch a tool -- it doesn't count. The little helper elves didn't show up last night as I had asked for either. Gwen is in New York - Alex is in L.A..... I need another look at those boobies!

:unibrow:

[Sieg]

After giving it some thought..... NO!


I went out to "the shed" to show a buddy the Freightliner - but since I didn't touch a tool -- it doesn't count. The little helper elves didn't show up last night as I had asked for either. Gwen is in New York - Alex is in L.A..... I need another look at those boobies!

:unibrow:

Well............I helped with some cleaning and touched a tool at the shop!

MORE BOOBIES!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-S33jM8F/0/O/i-S33jM8F.jpg

:theresa: :theresa: :theresa: :theresa: :theresa: :theresa:

[Ron in SoCal]

MORE BOOBIES!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-S33jM8F/0/O/i-S33jM8F.jpg

:theresa: :theresa: :theresa: :theresa: :theresa: :theresa:

I've decided I need to see her topless. If you could fwd her contact details Sieg I'll get right on it. :D

[Track Junky]

And once Ron has completed viewing and documented his observations I will cover the next round of testing by checking to see if they are real by means of a more hands on approach. :unibrow:

[Vegas69]

At lease something is getting done every once in a while. More than I can say for a few other threads around here. Talk doesn't count.

I love me some cowgirls. :D

[Sieg]

I've decided I need to see her topless. If you could fwd her contact details Sieg I'll get right on it. :D

1-900-TOO-BAAD :D

[Sieg]

And once Ron has completed viewing and documented his observations I will cover the next round of testing by checking to see if they are real by means of a more hands on approach. :unibrow:

...........and if they're not real you're going to.............?

[Sieg]

I love me some cowgirls. :D

S9ZbuIRPwFg

:D

[intocarss]

Cowgirls ROCK :beavis:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/cowgirl02.jpg



IS NORWOOD RUNNING YET?????

[Track Junky]

...........and if they're not real you're going to.............?

Put a check in the box that says "Silicon"?:D

[Track Junky]

IS NORWOOD RUNNING YET?????

When we going to see some of the more recent up dates on your car mister?

[intocarss]

When we going to see some of the more recent up dates on your car mister?

My car ain't worth a sh*t

[intocarss]

Unless I see some real work being done.... so is this thread! :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[GregWeld]

Put a check in the box that says "Silicon"?:D



Does that make the space in between --- Silicon Valley??

[Track Junky]

Does that make the space in between --- Silicon Valley??


Still waiting on Ron's lab results before I commence testing, make my observations, and document my findings. I'll keep you posted. :P

[Track Junky]

My car ain't worth a sh*t

What happened to my "OLD SCHOOL SOLDIER"!! Now stand up straight, tuck that belly in, and get to work soldier. I wont have that attitude in my platoon.:lol:

[Sieg]

Cowgirls ROCK :beavis:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/cowgirl02.jpg



IS NORWOOD RUNNING YET?????
Who cares! This is about Cowgirls and boobies! :rofl:

Because.....

Cowgirls ROCK!

http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Rule5_Cowgirls_8.jpg

[Sieg]

Put a check in the box that says "Silicon"?:D

And a note in the comment section "but definitely track worthy" :unibrow:

[Sieg]

When we going to see some of the more recent up dates on your car mister?

Norwood is sitting in the shop twiddling his thumbs waiting on the adjuster. :(

I did perform some bitchen mods on my utility trailer and christened it by picking up a ton of sand today for top-dressing the lawn. :woot:

[Sieg]

What happened to my "OLD SCHOOL SOLDIER"!! Now stand up straight, tuck that belly in, and get to work soldier. I wont have that attitude in my platoon.:lol:
+1 X2!

[waynieZ]

I guess that song works for guys too
Save a horse, Ride a cowgirl !!!!!

[Sieg]

I guess that song works for guys too
Save a horse, Ride a cowgirl !!!!!

Giddy Up! :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

What happened to my "OLD SCHOOL SOLDIER"!! Now stand up straight, tuck that belly in, and get to work soldier. I wont have that attitude in my platoon.:lol:

SIR YES SIR :hail:

DSE UPPERS

HILWIG FRONT 1 1/8" SWAY-BAR

LS1 BRAKES

12.7-1 HEAVY EFFORT STEERING BOX

HOTCHKIS COILS & LEAFS

REPLACING HYDRO BOOST WITH 7/8" MC

[intocarss]

Who cares! This is about Cowgirls and boobies! :rofl:

Because.....

Cowgirls ROCK!

http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Rule5_Cowgirls_8.jpg

THIS THREAD JUST GOT AWESOMER :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[WSSix]

Yep! She's hot too.

Funny thing though is she has big ears. She keeps them covered with her hair. It's just one of those human/female nature things I've picked up on in my life. Much like when a girl is wearing a ball cap, chances are it's because it's a bad hair day.

She's still hot though:D

[Ron in SoCal]

Funny thing though is she has big ears. She keeps them covered with her hair. :D

We gotta get you outta Kansas :lol:

[Sieg]

Yep! She's hot too.

Funny thing though is she has big ears. She keeps them covered with her hair. It's just one of those human/female nature things I've picked up on in my life. Much like when a girl is wearing a ball cap, chances are it's because it's a bad hair day.

She's still hot though:D

You gotta problem with big ears?
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-n2wrKRR/1/XL/i-n2wrKRR-XL.jpg


I've heard Cowboy's refer to them as pistol grips........

Ron's right :D