Norwood

[protour73]

Okay -- and I see another possible issue.... ASSUMING you're running an MSD box... since I see you've put on a GM weatherpak connector on the distributor.

The Black/Violet wire is negative (-) while the Black/Orange is postive (+). The wires that come out of the MSD are Violet(+) and Green (-). The 2-Pin connectors are designed to only connect one way so the wiring cannot be switched. If for some reason the connectors are changed, be sure the wires are connected with matching polarity. If they are not, the engine may or may not start, but if it does the timing will be inconsistent and it will run rough and not accelerate.

FYI Greg, that weatherpak connector is stock for MSD distributors.

http://www.hawaiiracing.com/shop_image/product/35884fcb50a41688dc5201e9e77f69a1.jpg

[Sieg]

I've always USUALLY found that it's something SUPER SIMPLE that only makes sense after it's accidentally discovered. In the mean time --- SO F'N FRUSTRATING!:thumbsup:

I KNOW!!!!


http://d26ya5yqg8yyvs.cloudfront.net/kboom.gif

[GregWeld]

FYI Greg, that weatherpak connector is stock for MSD distributors.

http://www.hawaiiracing.com/shop_image/product/35884fcb50a41688dc5201e9e77f69a1.jpg



Not on all of 'em - on some maybe -- like the "ready to run" -- but for years the MSD distributors have come standard with a two wire non weather pack (in fact a crappy little piece) connector.

I've been clipping them off and switching over to the weather pack style because it's such a superior connector.

Even the MSD boxes have the trigger wires (black with violet and black with green) pre-wired with the "other half" of the crappy little connector.


Not arguing here -- just sayin'

[glassman]

The carb could have an internal vacuum leak, although I do not know how to check that.(I had symptoms similar to this on my boat)

Also, are the valve adjust on this any harder than the KTM's?

Mike

[Sieg]

The carb could have an internal vacuum leak, although I do not know how to check that.(I had symptoms similar to this on my boat)

Also, are the valve adjust on this any harder than the KTM's?

Mike

The vacuum guage reading was similar during the symptoms 10"-11" not sure if a vacuum leak that's enough to create these problems would be detectable on the guage.

I guess I could spray it down with starting fluid while running but I'm a little gun-shy about fires right now! :D

I'm getting ready to go through the tach wiring to verify the power and ground points. That has been haunting me so it's time to eliminate it.

KTM valve adjustments on the LC8 and RC8 are a little more complicated but not once you access the valve covers since they use shims. :unibrow:

It takes a while to get to this point and the covers are still not removable!
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/KTM-SDR/i-d2g6XQc/1/L/IMGP4485-L.jpg

My '83 750 & '84 500 Honda V-Four Interceptor motors were a breeze as were the XR500's.

[carbuff]

Your suggestion to spray around the vacuum ports is a good one. Also, if you basically have the blades closed, what happens if you hold your hands over the carb to prevent most of the air from going through? If is still runs, air is getting in from somewhere else...

I can't tell from your picture, but are there vacuum hoses coming off the carb? If so can you just remove them and plug everything to rule out as much as you can there?

Another place that air can be pulled in is through the intake manifold gasket if it wasn't sealed well down in the valley area. Hard to tell with it all installed though.

I'm not very knowledgeable on distributors, but is it possible for you to completely lock the advance in some way to at least eliminate advance from the equation as you are trying to adjust the carb?

And time to ask the simplest of questions. Since it's running ok, I doubt this is a problem, but... You have double and triple checked the plug wires are ordered correctly, right?

And one more I can think of... When you pulled the distributor, everything looked ok with the gear, correct? I know a car which I had in the past started showing erratic timing when the gear was being eaten alive by the cam shaft due to using the wrong gear... :\

Just brainstorming as I type. Not sure much is helpful, but looking for outside the box ideas... Good luck!

[Sieg]

Your suggestion to spray around the vacuum ports is a good one. Also, if you basically have the blades closed, what happens if you hold your hands over the carb to prevent most of the air from going through? If is still runs, air is getting in from somewhere else...

I can't tell from your picture, but are there vacuum hoses coming off the carb? If so can you just remove them and plug everything to rule out as much as you can there?

Another place that air can be pulled in is through the intake manifold gasket if it wasn't sealed well down in the valley area. Hard to tell with it all installed though.

I'm not very knowledgeable on distributors, but is it possible for you to completely lock the advance in some way to at least eliminate advance from the equation as you are trying to adjust the carb?

And time to ask the simplest of questions. Since it's running ok, I doubt this is a problem, but... You have double and triple checked the plug wires are ordered correctly, right?

And one more I can think of... When you pulled the distributor, everything looked ok with the gear, correct? I know a car which I had in the past started showing erratic timing when the gear was being eaten alive by the cam shaft due to using the wrong gear... :\

Just brainstorming as I type. Not sure much is helpful, but looking for outside the box ideas... Good luck!
As weak as it feels at idle I'd guess covering it would kill it quick. But haven't tried it.
No vac ports on this carb.
Motor is fresh, intake sealed with The Right Stuff and Edelbrock gaskets.
Mechanical advance is pretty simple and with the firmer springs installed with no change in symptoms I don't think that's it.
Plug wires are right:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-zqJSBbX/0/M/i-zqJSBbX-M.jpg

Distributor gear looks like this:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Fz48qqq/0/M/i-Fz48qqq-M.jpg

Appreciate the brainstorming............like Greg said, it will most likely be something stupid simple and I'll feel stupid.............again. :D

I did trace the tach wiring and it's grounded to the instrument panel ground. The MSD is pretty sensitive to ground so I'm going to run it to a dedicate engine ground just to be sure. Though previously it was working with this wiring configuration.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Distributor has a silver and blue spring currently, it was running fine with that set up but I found out the transfers slots were not exposed so I set them at .025 and had a 2K idle. The symptoms started when I loosened the distributor to retard the initial timing from 16* to a number that would deliver an acceptable idle speed and carb settings.

I can get it below 1K with little or no transfer slot exposure (.025 is spec). Problem was flat power as the clutch engaged.

are you getting idle signal from the secondary bores?

[fleetus macmullitz]

Cut your losses and trade it for a used SB2.

[Sieg]

are you getting idle signal from the secondary bores?

Fuel screws and throttle shaft idle screw impact idle, secondary throttle shaft adjustment seems more sensitive than primary.

When it was fired after running the valves yesterday it's feels normal above 2K rpm, between 1-2K is where it's weak and vague. While getting it up to temp when it would go below 1K heading to a stall, pumping the pedal lightly to catch it resulted in a backfire and little carb fire. That's leading me to think it "could be electrical, somewhat similar trait to the weak distributor ground.

After reading MSD's troubleshooting list http://www.msdignition.com/troubleshooting.aspx I'm going to check the magnetic pickup value and verify conditions listed in timing fluctuations, and improve tach ground or just eliminate the tach right now.

My SnapOn Timing light pick up clamp isn't directional but I'll experiment with flipping it just because.

:thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Cut your losses and trade it for a used SB2.
Skip - That would be great as the conservative rebuild after the fire was done knowing this is not my ideal motor. LSx or dry sump LS7 would be nice
but since I'm currently unemployed for the first time in 36 years it would be a tough sell on the wife. :D

[fleetus macmullitz]

Skip - That would be great as the conservative rebuild after the fire was done knowing this is not my ideal motor. LSx or dry sump LS7 would be nice
but since I'm currently unemployed for the first time in 36 years it would be a tough sell on the wife. :D

Just kiddin' Sieg. :D

It was just a friendly shot across the bow at our friend Flash68. :unibrow:

[Sieg]

Just kiddin' Sieg. :D

It was just a friendly shot across the bow at our friend Flash68. :unibrow:
Hey I wasn't defending just clarifying conditions..........I like your intent :rofl:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Fuel screws and throttle shaft idle screw impact idle, secondary throttle shaft adjustment seems more sensitive than primary.

When it was fired after running the valves yesterday it's feels normal above 2K rpm, between 1-2K is where it's weak and vague. While getting it up to temp when it would go below 1K heading to a stall, pumping the pedal lightly to catch it resulted in a backfire and little carb fire. That's leading me to think it "could be electrical, somewhat similar trait to the weak distributor ground.

After reading MSD's troubleshooting list http://www.msdignition.com/troubleshooting.aspx I'm going to check the magnetic pickup value and verify conditions listed in timing fluctuations, and improve tach ground or just eliminate the tach right now.

My SnapOn Timing light pick up clamp isn't directional but I'll experiment with flipping it just because.

:thumbsup:. Don't dismiss a carb tuning issue. I'm leaning in that direction.

[Sieg]

. Don't dismiss a carb tuning issue. I'm leaning in that direction.
Agreed, it's going back on the bench for inspection. :thumbsup:

[makoshark]

Sieg, didn't you put a new carb on with this new setup? What was wrong with the old carb? What size carb is it your running now and what was the old carb size?

[Sieg]

Sieg, didn't you put a new carb on with this new setup? What was wrong with the old carb? What size carb is it your running now and what was the old carb size?
The old 650 Demon was BBQ'd. Holley 650 Ultra HP now.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-bZLQm2X/1/M/i-bZLQm2X-M.jpg

[makoshark]

That's a well done carb right there.

You changed the carb along with the cam? from your original setup, which I assume was running well? Correct? You're still running the same, but new ignition system?

[carbuff]

If the cam was changed, any chance the timing chain wasn't correctly aligned? Was it degreed?

[Sieg]

That's a well done carb right there.

You changed the carb along with the cam? from your original setup, which I assume was running well? Correct? You're still running the same, but new ignition system?
Same cam grind, new MSD Ready to Run kit.

If the cam was changed, any chance the timing chain wasn't correctly aligned? Was it degreed? Gear drive. The issue is below 2K'ish rpm. I pulled the carb and set the transfer slot exposure and nothing else..........It's coming off again for a thorough once over, base plate seal, bowls, and metering blocks inspection, and blow out the passages.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Sieg,

I can ask a troubleshooter to stop by your place and have a look.


One question-is the airport closest to you big enough to handle 'Weld One' landing there? ;)

[Sieg]

Sieg,

I can ask a troubleshooter to stop by your place and have a look.


One question-is the airport closest to you big enough to handle 'Weld One' landing there? ;)
That's an easy question.....................NO!

If it's a C-130 deviation YES!

[Sieg]

Went through the tach wiring and altered the light and ground sources, and to make Greg happy my engine ground strap that was back-ordered finally came in. :D

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-H9Bpwbd/0/L/i-H9Bpwbd-L.jpg

Haven't fired it yet, but the needle response on the tach has change when switching the key to the on position. Just made it to 32* and I'm in no hurry to open the garage to fire it. :D

If the cleaned up wiring makes no change........off with the carb!

[GregWeld]

You know why they call doing electricity "making a circuit" -- cause the positive side also travels thru the negative side... :unibrow:


I don't think this is the "solution" --- but it certainly won't hurt anything.


BTW -- 32*'s REALLY? And you're whining about that?!?! Come over to Sun Valley.... it's 21* right now (5:00 PM) and will be -2* tonight.

But it sure is pretty!! Thus the "SUN Valley" :D

Baldy -- from our parking lot this morning!


http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Sun%20Valley/file-1.jpg

[Sieg]

You know why they call doing electricity "making a circuit" -- cause the positive side also travels thru the negative side... :unibrow:


I don't think this is the "solution" --- but it certainly won't hurt anything.


BTW -- 32*'s REALLY? And you're whining about that?!?! Come over to Sun Valley.... it's 21* right now (5:00 PM) and will be -2* tonight.

But it sure is pretty!! Thus the "SUN Valley" :D

Baldy -- from our parking lot this morning!


Har-de-har-har

It probably won't but it's PITA detail work that needed to be done. :yes:

Yes I am whinning, I was out in it for 4+ hours today...........that resulted in serious shrinkage.

Enough with the pics of storage buildings and baldy top, I want to see one of you in your snow bunny costume. :unibrow:

[Sieg]

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-p8WmgMN/0/M/i-p8WmgMN-M.jpg

Pulled the carb apart and blew everything out to make sure all passages were clear and double checked all settings. Re-installed and fired it, similar results. I DID NOT pull the fuel screws previously so I pulled then and blew the passages out. Reinstalled the screws at 2 turns out vs 1.5-6 and fired it and it still felt a little hollow off idle......went to 2.5 and conditions improved, still stumbled a bit with quick off idle input, took the .017" slack out of the primary accel pump and bingo it's close. Checked the initial timing and bumped it to 12* with no floating problem.

:bang:

Lean condition caused the erratic timing? Fuel screw passage partially blocked? Symptoms compounded by considerable temperature drop and air density increase? Either way it appears I have a drive-able baseline to tune from. Feel like an idiot but I'm getting used to it......to honor the fact Jody gave me my own special smiley. :sieg:

[GregWeld]

Well that's good to hear!

[fleetus macmullitz]

Well that's good to hear!

X2. :thumbsup:

It's certainly no fun for you, but a little tech during the middle of winter is good for us restless natives here. :D

[glassman]

You know I didn't think about how the cold and dense air could excasperate the problem.... My car runs like crap below 40....

[GregWeld]

I'll sleep a little better tonight! :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

X2. :thumbsup:

It's certainly no fun for you, but a little tech during the middle of winter is good for us restless natives here. :D

It's all good, anytime I'm wrenching it's a good thing and the shop is warm. What ticks me off is my trouble shooting and experimentation. Either there was debris in that carb or I didn't richen the fuel screws enough. Holley specs 3/4 turn out as starting point but doesn't give a desired final range. Most of my tuning has been on bikes 1-1 3/4 turns and the old Demon carb was 1/2-3/4 out. So 2.5 turns is extreme to what I'm accustom to and the idle by-pass adds another unfamiliar variable. It appears the learning curve will never end, so I'll never be bored. :lol:

[GregWeld]

Turned out that much seems extreme -- and I wonder if that's a bandaid - but I'm not familiar with that carb. Might be worth a call to their tech in the morning??

[Sieg]

Turned out that much seems extreme -- and I wonder if that's a bandaid - but I'm not familiar with that carb. Might be worth a call to their tech in the morning??
I plan on emailing the tech I have a relationship after a little more experimenting. This carb appears to be pretty sensitive to input which is great once you figure out how sensitive it is. I should be able to alter the fuel screw range with the idle air bleed jets so no biggy.

The recommend 7 psi fuel pressure with 5 psi min, I thinking a new fuel pump that delivers 7 psi might be advisable as well since mine is 6 psi max. So do I go with electric or mechanical?

[GregWeld]

For years - 5 was max on a Holley... I think 6psi is fine and wouldn't touch it.

This is really where you need a chassis dyno - because the only way you're going to know if it's going lean do to low fuel pressure (I doubt it is) would be
with the numbers you'd get.

I have a guy up in Kirkland -- Alex at Carb Connection -- that has a chassis dyno and is a master around a carb. He's amazing really. Maybe that should be a Weld/Sieg road trip in the rig.

[Sieg]

For years - 5 was max on a Holley... I think 6psi is fine and wouldn't touch it.
I've always went by the 5 psi guideline - The Ultra HP is spec'd for 7.5 psi max.

Maybe that should be a Weld/Sieg road trip in the rig.
:confused59: :excited:

[GregWeld]

I have to get GNRS behind me first... and am hauling a Range Rover down for a buddy -- and bringing back another hot rod for another buddy... but it would be an easy run to Eugene and back... and the trailer is enclosed so winter worries don't count. We'll talk.:idea: :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

I've always went by the 5 psi guideline - The Ultra HP is spec'd for 7.5 psi max.



Right -- but 7.5 psi would be appropriate to keep a high winding race car from leaning out. Not saying that you're motor isn't exceptional in every way.... :bitchslap:

[fleetus macmullitz]

Greg,

IIRC you hauled bro-outlaws' red Camaro around, now you're planning to grab this orange creamsicle thing Sieg's got. So after that, if this rainbow trend follows it's gonna be another '69 Camaro, a yellow one.

Hmmm....



:lol:

[GregWeld]

Greg,

IIRC you hauled bro-outlaws' red Camaro around, now you're planning to grab this orange creamsicle thing Sieg's got. So after that, if this rainbow trend follows it's gonna be another '69 Camaro, a yellow one.

Hmmm....



:lol:



Charley won't even let me in the same building as Jackass.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Charley won't even let me in the same building as Jackass.

:lol:

Charlie's :rules:

[Sieg]

Right -- but 7.5 psi would be appropriate to keep a high winding race car from leaning out. Not saying that you're motor isn't exceptional in every way.... :bitchslap:

Greg,

IIRC you hauled bro-outlaws' red Camaro around, now you're planning to grab this orange creamsicle thing Sieg's got. So after that, if this rainbow trend follows it's gonna be another '69 Camaro, a yellow one.

Hmmm....

:lol:
My motor is a total creampuff which is quite appropriate for a creamsicle. :theresa:

[fleetus macmullitz]

My motor is a total creampuff which is quite appropriate for a creamsicle. :theresa:

And it looks like it's gonna get 'Welded' too. :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

I like to back the primary and secondary throttle plate to 0 then open them the same amount until you can get a reasonable idle. You may have to open the primaries a little more when you get close. Then set the idle mixture with the highest rpm and making sure all 4 screws are the same. You can fatten them up a little from max rpm to help drivability. I don't think 2.5 turns is a problem. It could be covering up a slighty lean jet or improper squirter cam.

[Sieg]

And it looks like it's gonna get 'Welded' too. :thumbsup:

Can you visualize the look of disappointment on the faces of bystanders watching that rig pull up, the doors open...........and seeing my car in the back. :lmao:

Somewhat similar to Roseanne Barr walking on to the stage of a strip club. :(

[Sieg]

I like to back the primary and secondary throttle plate to 0 then open them the same amount until you can get a reasonable idle. You may have to open the primaries a little more when you get close. Then set the idle mixture with the highest rpm and making sure all 4 screws are the same. You can fatten them up a little from max rpm to help drivability. I don't think 2.5 turns is a problem. It could be covering up a slighty lean jet or improper squirter cam.

Thanks for the input Todd. It appears I may have a base to tune from and can start experimenting with idle input ranges. I may be too focused on transfer slot exposure, but I now have references marked for .025" exposure and a 1/4 turn out equals zero so that reduces a previous unknown element. As noted I can alter the fuel screw range with the idle air jets which is a luxury I've never had the car. The squirters are .031, previous carb's were drilled to .033. Previous motor liked the dark green cam so I'm looking forward to experimenting with cams on this carb. The way it responded to removing slack from the pump linkages would indicate the circuit may be on the lean side.

Freezing fog right now.........not a good tuning day!

[DaleTx]

I have used a couple of the Holley HP carbs in the past on 350 small blocks. After reading the posts on your carb settings I went out and checked the settings on my carbs. The Holley 650 HP with mechanical secondarys that I ran on the Camaro had the idle mixture screws at ¾ turn out. The Holley 750 HP I ran had the Idle mixture screws out 1-1/4 turn.

The pump discharge nozzle I used on the 650 HP was .029 on the primary and .031 on the secondary. The fuel pressure was 5 psi for the tune. I tried a higher pressure fuel pump one time (7.5 psi) and it threw the tune off. The carb was very sensitive to the pressure change.

I agree with Greg about dialing in the tune on the chassis dyno… saves a lot of time and you get to see the results of the changes on a graph. It’s also fun to stand back and watch your car all wound up.

:thumbsup:

This is the mechanical secondary Holley 650 HP I'm referring to... it's not an ultra HP just a regular HP... not sure what the difference is.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan20a007_zps6eeb15ae.jpg


A little off subject here... but do you recognize this bike?

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan20b001_zps4cc08bce.jpg

[intocarss]

:idea:

[Flash68]

:sieg:

I just noticed this new emoticon is labeled "Sieg"... :lol: :lmao:

[fleetus macmullitz]

:sieg:

I just noticed this new emoticon is labeled "Sieg"... :lol: :lmao:

Sieg ain't no dummy...he came up with a plan where he only gets charged $.01 when someone uses it, but when he does, it's free. :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

I looked back at my notes and my screws were 1.5 turns out. When I said a lean jet, I meant your actual main jets. They can cause a hesitation and a rich idle mixture will help. I found that my car needed a really agressive pump cam. I used the orange cam but it comes down to your own configuration. With an idle mixture that is to fat, you stand a good chance of fouling plugs. I'd see at what idle mixture screw adjustment get you to your highest idle and use that as your baseline. Then you can adjust accel cam and jets and tweak the idle mixture a hair if needed.

[Sieg]

I have used a couple of the Holley HP carbs in the past on 350 small blocks. After reading the posts on your carb settings I went out and checked the settings on my carbs. The Holley 650 HP with mechanical secondarys that I ran on the Camaro had the idle mixture screws at ¾ turn out. The Holley 750 HP I ran had the Idle mixture screws out 1-1/4 turn.

The pump discharge nozzle I used on the 650 HP was .029 on the primary and .031 on the secondary. The fuel pressure was 5 psi for the tune. I tried a higher pressure fuel pump one time (7.5 psi) and it threw the tune off. The carb was very sensitive to the pressure change.

I agree with Greg about dialing in the tune on the chassis dyno… saves a lot of time and you get to see the results of the changes on a graph. It’s also fun to stand back and watch your car all wound up.

:thumbsup:
What idle air bleed jets were in this carb? Mine has 70's but the unknown factor (to me) is the impact of the idle bypass system in the baseplate. Holley says it does not impact other circuits.......but it does impact the tune.......especially if trying to compare to you 4150 :headscratch:

Look at the features on this page to see some of the changes: http://www.holley.com/0-80802HB.asp

Even though it may bore you now that you're into techie-tuning. :mock:

A little off subject here... but do you recognize this bike?

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan20b001_zps4cc08bce.jpg

NEVER! It's got a motor and wheels!

In the backyard:
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Trials-Practice/i-7n6TJWK/1/M/IMG%209562-M.jpg

[Sieg]

:sieg:

I just noticed this new emoticon is labeled "Sieg"... :lol: :lmao:

Sieg ain't no dummy...he came up with a plan where he only gets charged $.01 when someone uses it, but when he does, it's free. :thumbsup:
Hey! I earned that fair and square after damn near two months of trying to get an archaic Gen 1 running. :sieg:

Maybe Davie if you work hard enough at your lucrative mod job Jody will give you a special one! http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/pictime.gif

Skip - Is there is a smiley appropriate for you?.......maybe a string of them but certainly not a singular one. http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/walkingdog.gifhttp://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/ban.gifhttp://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/sign06.gifhttp://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/stirthepot.gif http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/threadjacked.gifhttp://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/fighting72.gifhttp://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/dousing.gif http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/muahaha.gif


:cheers:

[DaleTx]

What idle air bleed jets were in this carb? Mine has 70's but the unknown factor (to me) is the impact of the idle bypass system in the baseplate. Holley says it does not impact other circuits.......but it does impact the tune.......especially if trying to compare to you 4150 :headscratch:

Look at the features on this page to see some of the changes: http://www.holley.com/0-80802HB.asp

Even though it may bore you now that you're into techie-tuning. :mock:


NEVER! It's got a motor and wheels!

In the backyard:
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Trials-Practice/i-7n6TJWK/1/M/IMG%209562-M.jpg

The idle air bleeds in my 650 HP are 68's.

Using squirters, springs, cams, floats, power valves, jets, and such seems so primitive and old fashioned....Lol.

These days I call my tuner, we plug in the lap top, push a few buttons and I'm good to go. Seriously the new stuff is awesome :mock:

Nice form on the trials bike :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

The idle air bleeds in my 650 HP are 68's.

Using squirters, springs, cams, floats, power valves, jets, and such seems so primitive and old fashioned....Lol.

These days I call my tuner, we plug in the lap top, push a few buttons and I'm good to go. Seriously the new stuff is awesome :mock:

Nice form on the trials bike :thumbsup:
Thanks for checking the bleeds. :thumbsup:

What happens when you can't reach your tuner and you have a corrupt map? :popcorn2: :mock: :popcorn2:

Don't have much talent on the trials bike but I really enjoy it. :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

am I the only one that tunes by ear, butt and vac gauge?
I have never worried about turn count.

Fetch a decent idle around 800, or till you read 0 hg at the venturi port. Register a slight idle circuit from the secondary blades. Turn the mixture screws in till you detect idle change then back out 1 turn. Then Butt tune the accel pump cams and squirters.

[DaleTx]

Thanks for checking the bleeds. :thumbsup:

What happens when you can reach your tuner and you have a corrupt map? :popcorn2: :mock: :popcorn2:

Don't have much talent on the trials bike but I really enjoy it. :thumbsup:

You got me... I'll have to start working on plan B.... maybe a back up ECM... extra sensors... triple A membership :headscratch:

:cheers:

[intocarss]

am I the only one that tunes by ear, butt and vac gauge?
I have never worried about turn count.

Fetch a decent idle around 800, or till you read 0 hg at the venturi port. Register a slight idle circuit from the secondary blades. Turn the mixture screws in till you detect idle change then back out 1 turn. Then Butt tune the accel pump cams and squirters.

:idea: :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

In the backyard:
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Trials-Practice/i-7n6TJWK/1/M/IMG%209562-M.jpg Now show us your personnal MX track :warning:

[Sieg]

am I the only one that tunes by ear, butt and vac gauge?
I have never worried about turn count.

Fetch a decent idle around 800, or till you read 0 hg at the venturi port. Register a slight idle circuit from the secondary blades. Turn the mixture screws in till you detect idle change then back out 1 turn. Then Butt tune the accel pump cams and squirters.That's my preferred way once I find a base which hopefully is the case. :thumbsup: Typically I'll find high/low range of the mixture screw, center it and fine tune with vac guage for max vac which is around 11" with this cam @ 9,50-1,000. The pump cams and squirters are the fun part. :unibrow:

This is the best guide I have: http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/199R10321.pdf

[Sieg]

You got me... I'll have to start working on plan B.... maybe a back up ECM... extra sensors... triple A membership :headscratch:

:cheers:
:bitchslap: You forgot spare batteries! :D

[Sieg]

Now show us your personnal MX track :warning: Friends house 10 minutes away count? :unibrow:

dGXOsJX0VrA

Crappy audio courtesy of GoPro :rolleyes:

[Roberts68]

Friends house 10 minutes away count? :unibrow:

Crappy audio courtesy of GoPro :rolleyes:

I was going to ask if that was the same camera because of the audio. Did they resolve that for you yet?

Looks like maybe a hare scramble? My girlfriends' 13 year old daughter's preferred dirt bike contest over motocross.:thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

I agree with you guys on the "tune by ear" scenario.... Most of us grew up doing this and it isn't rocket science.... UNTIL... Until you've got some issue that isn't being tuned out by ear and butt... and I think that's where Sieg is/was.

The ol' ear/butt tune works like a charm when everything is going "swell".

[Sieg]

I was going to ask if that was the same camera because of the audio. Did they resolve that for you yet?

Looks like maybe a hare scramble? My girlfriends' 13 year old daughter's preferred dirt bike contest over motocross.:thumbsup:
Regarding GoPro:
Update for Case #447411 - "Audio Failure - Hero2"
Dear Scott,

I am sorry but I can't modify our warranty policies.

The only thing I can do for you is to escalate your case to the Team Manager but probably he will tell you the same thing that I have already explained.

Please let me know if you want to escalate your case.


I'm not done arguing with them about their defective products and engineering IMO................:warning:

[Sieg]

I agree with you guys on the "tune by ear" scenario.... Most of us grew up doing this and it isn't rocket science.... UNTIL... Until you've got some issue that isn't being tuned out by ear and butt... and I think that's where Sieg is/was.

The ol' ear/butt tune works like a charm when everything is going "swell".

Old Skool just like me and my car. :sieg:

The carb's I enjoyed tuning we're the pair of side-draft Weber DCOE's put a hose in the stack and listen to the music and tune the other venturi's to the same note. :sieg:

[intocarss]

Friends house 10 minutes away count? :unibrow:

dGXOsJX0VrA

Crappy audio courtesy of GoPro :rolleyes:

:thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I agree with you guys on the "tune by ear" scenario.... Most of us grew up doing this and it isn't rocket science.... UNTIL... Until you've got some issue that isn't being tuned out by ear and butt... and I think that's where Sieg is/was.

The ol' ear/butt tune works like a charm when everything is going "swell".

just checking, I thought I might have been going crazy. :lostmarbles:

Its hard to tell what stage he is in without hanging on the fender with him.

[Sieg]

just checking, I thought I might have been going crazy. :lostmarbles:

Its hard to tell what stage he is in without hanging on the fender with him.
Me too!

I understand how difficult it is to troubleshoot without having eyes and ears on the issue and I really appreciate everyone's efforts. :thumbsup:

[fleetus macmullitz]

Me too!

I understand how difficult it is to troubleshoot without having eyes and ears on the issue and I really appreciate everyone's efforts. :thumbsup:

Your welcome Sieg...glad I could help.

[Sieg]

Your welcome Sieg...glad I could help.

Nuts! Quoted me before I caught my typo............thankfully I have the perfect smiley for it. :sieg:

Skip, you've definitely kept me smiling through all this! :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

How can you tune in this weather!

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/No-Roof/i-nxMshQb/0/XL/IMAG3494-XL.jpg

Even Rev iced up this morning.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-m6XMg9L/0/XL/i-m6XMg9L-XL.jpg

26* with freezing fog this morning and it didn't keep that goofy mutt from swimming. :lol:

[fleetus macmullitz]

To 'Sieger System' guy... :D

I edited my post quoting yours.

I think you'll like my 'reason for editing'.

No joke, it's gonna get so cold here the septic tank cleaning guy told me that since it's supposed to be sub 0° overnight, that I need to put an old blanket on top of the septic tank cover so he can try and get it open tomorrow!


How can you tune in this weather!

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/No-Roof/i-nxMshQb/0/XL/IMAG3494-XL.jpg

Even Rev iced up this morning.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-m6XMg9L/0/XL/i-m6XMg9L-XL.jpg

26* with freezing fog this morning and it didn't keep that goofy mutt from swimming. :lol:

What a look on that pooch's frozen mugg. :lol:

[Sieg]

To 'Sieger System' guy... :D

I edited my post quoting yours.

I think you'll like my 'reason for editing'.

No joke, it's gonna get so cold here the septic tank cleaning guy told me that since it's supposed to be sub 0° overnight, that I need to put an old blanket on top of the septic tank cover so he can try and get it open tomorrow!

What a look on that pooch's frozen mugg. :lol:

Mercy edit...............:lmao:

:idea: Drizzle water on that cover and leave him a hammer and chisel with smiley note of course.

That look is target fixation on a tree that's home to a squirrel he's been trying to catch for a year now. He wasn't phased by the temp, we were out another 30 minutes and he had no desire to leave the orchard. :)

[fleetus macmullitz]

Mercy edit...............:lmao:

:idea: Drizzle water on that cover and leave him a hammer and chisel with smiley note of course.

That look is target fixation on a tree that's home to a squirrel he's been trying to catch for a year now. He wasn't phased by the temp, we were out another 30 minutes and he had no desire to leave the orchard. :)

I like your solution for the septic sanitation guy!

LOL

Ok, a squirrel hunt explains the look.:warning:

I do have some actual 5 letter tech advice.



EZ EFI. :clap:

[intocarss]

I made waffles!! OH and It's 80* here. Had to pull a rear-end apart out in the driveway and I got a lil sweaty :relax:

[Sieg]

I like your solution for the septic sanitation guy!

LOL

Ok, a squirrel hunt explains the look.:warning:

I do have some actual 5 letter tech advice.

EZ EFI. :clap:

I have a 4 letter dream........

MAST :unibrow:

[Sieg]

I made waffles!! OH and It's 80* here. Had to pull a rear-end apart out in the driveway and I got a lil sweaty :relax:

Vvx0AS1h2us

:action-smiley-027: :action-smiley-027: :action-smiley-027: :action-smiley-027: :action-smiley-027: :action-smiley-027: :action-smiley-027: :action-smiley-027: :action-smiley-027: :action-smiley-027: :action-smiley-027: :action-smiley-027: :action-smiley-027: :action-smiley-027:

[DaleTx]

:bitchslap: You forgot spare batteries! :D

:sieg: me

When I first decided to do an LS engine build with EFI I was concerned about support... that's the reason I went with a GM ECM. There's lots of support for parts, and tuning. I didn't want to get into a system that may or may not be supported five years from now. That was my logic choosing a system just in case you ever decide to go there :D

On your motocross video I was expecting a view looking forward... maybe some passing :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

:sieg: me

When I first decided to do an LS engine build with EFI I was concerned about support... that's the reason I went with a GM ECM. There's lots of support for parts, and tuning. I didn't want to get into a system that may or may not be supported five years from now. That was my logic choosing a system just in case you ever decide to go there :D

On your motocross video I was expecting a view looking forward... maybe some passing :thumbsup:
Good logic on the ECM and your choice of builders. :thumbsup:

Here's a forward view from Central Oregon, still no passing, at my age I wait til they fall down. :rules:

http://youtu.be/HqWLJxIECuw

[FETorino]

I need to get outside and unload my truck and trailer but that will have to wait till the evening when it cools down. This 82+ deg weather is a bitch.:relax:

[Sieg]

I need to get outside and unload my truck and trailer but that will have to wait till the evening when it cools down. This 82+ deg weather is a bitch.:relax:
http://d26ya5yqg8yyvs.cloudfront.net/kboom.gif


It's all the way up to 31* with a bright grey 100' ceiling :(

[GregWeld]

Sorry to hear about your septic tank Skip -- but just knowing you have to have it pumped says a lot about you to the rest of us....


Jer -- NOBODY feels sorry for you OR ROB!


Sieggy.... I commiserate with my fellow NorthWETner!



My day was just awful.... Oh yeah! Sorry about your thread Sieg! :popcorn2:





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Sun%20Valley/file-16.jpg

[Sieg]

My day was just awful.... Oh yeah! Sorry about your thread Sieg! :popcorn2:


Not to worry Greggy, records are records.

1,082 Posts

40,552 Disappointed Views

:sieg:

[fleetus macmullitz]

Sorry to hear about your septic tank Skip -- but just knowing you have to have it pumped says a lot about you to the rest of us....


Nah, I'm just a regular guy.:D

Like the side of the sani truck says..

"Better to have a royal flush then a full house!"

[intocarss]

Sorry to hear about your septic tank Skip -- but just knowing you have to have it pumped says a lot about you to the rest of us....


Jer -- NOBODY feels sorry for you OR ROB!


Sieggy.... I commiserate with my fellow NorthWETner!



My day was just awful.... Oh yeah! Sorry about your thread Sieg! :popcorn2:





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Sun%20Valley/file-16.jpgArSLNJNUEIM :hello:

[fleetus macmullitz]

My day was just awful.... Oh yeah! Sorry about your thread Sieg! :popcorn2:





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Sun%20Valley/file-16.jpg


Yeah, you're tryin to rub our noses in 145.7" of packed powder, but kudos on the pic.

:D

[glassman]

Well, for what it's worth, the jetting on that 3hunny sounded good...:thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Well, for what it's worth, the jetting on that 3hunny sounded good...:thumbsup:
:rofl:

Nobody here will believe I set that up. :D

Contrary to forum opinion I actually do know what crisp jetting feels like and a crisp 230 lb. 50+ hp close-ratio 6 spd 3hunny feels pretty darn good. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

As I was saying (beotching) about trying to tune in this weather...........

...FREEZING RAIN ADVISORY IN EFFECT FROM 4 AM TO NOON PST WEDNESDAY FOR THE WILLAMETTE VALLEY...THE LOWER COLUMBIA RIVER VALLEY AND COWLITZ RIVER VALLEY...
THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN PORTLAND HAS ISSUED A FREEZING RAIN ADVISORY FOR LIGHT ICING...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM 4 AM TO NOON PST WEDNESDAY.
* TIMING...SPOTTY LIGHT FREEZING RAIN IS POSSIBLE BETWEEN 4 AM AND 6 AM...BUT MAIN THREAT OF FREEZING RAIN WILL BE BETWEEN 6 AM AND 10 AM. FREEZING RAIN THREAT WILL LAST UNTIL NOON IN AREAS CLOSER TO THE COLUMBIA RIVER.
* ICE ACCUMULATIONS...PRECIPITATION WILL BE LIGHT WITH ICE ACCUMULATIONS OF A FEW HUNDREDTHS TO AS MUCH AS ONE TENTH OF AN INCH.
* TEMPERATURE...TEMPERATURES WILL REMAIN IN THE UPPER 20S AND LOWER 30S THROUGH MUCH OF WEDNESDAY MORNING...WARMING ABOVE FREEZING BY NOON. AS THE FRONT MOVES ACROSS REGION AND SOUTH WINDS DEVELOP...TEMPERATURES WILL WARM INTO THE UPPER 30S AND LOWER 40S IN THE AFTERNOON.
* IMPACTS...ICY CONDITIONS EXPECTED ON ROADWAYS...SIDEWALKS...AND STREETS WEDNESDAY MORNING.
PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...
A FREEZING RAIN ADVISORY MEANS THAT PERIODS OF FREEZING RAIN OR FREEZING DRIZZLE WILL CAUSE TRAVEL DIFFICULTIES. BE PREPARED FOR SLIPPERY ROADS. SLOW DOWN AND USE CAUTION WHILE DRIVING.

[Roberts68]

:rolleyes: You will get no symapthy from me with regards to weather. Not with sub zero "high's" in the forecast here and wind chill advisory's from 25-45 below zero the last couple days.:confused59:

:guns:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I need to get outside and unload my truck and trailer but that will have to wait till the evening when it cools down. This 82+ deg weather is a bitch.:relax:

I need you help, what do you use to clear all this sunshine out of your driveway? Been using a rake but its a pain sometimes. :lmao:

[Sieg]

I need you help, what do you use to clear all this sunshine out of your driveway? Been using a rake but its a pain sometimes. :lmao:

kO4DPI1hegc


I will score you a 9.7 on the response though. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

:rolleyes: You will get no symapthy from me with regards to weather. Not with sub zero "high's" in the forecast here and wind chill advisory's from 25-45 below zero the last couple days.:confused59:

:guns:

I DO NOT LIVE IN Minnefreezingsota! YOU DO!

[glassman]

:rofl:

Nobody here will believe I set that up. :D

Contrary to forum opinion I actually do know what crisp jetting feels like and a crisp 230 lb. 50+ hp close-ratio 6 spd 3hunny feels pretty darn good. :thumbsup:

Nice...two more months before I can ride again....itchen.

[GregWeld]

BIG DEAL!! I hauled ass right thru there -- blasted the air horn a couple times.... and kept right on truckin'!!



:bitchslap: :bitchslap: :D

[Sieg]

BIG DEAL!! I hauled ass right thru there -- blasted the air horn a couple times.... and kept right on truckin'!!

:bitchslap: :bitchslap: :D
It was a lot better than the weather Guru's forecasted wasn't it. :thumbsup:

Has the Eagle landed in SoCal?

[DaleTx]

Good logic on the ECM and your choice of builders. :thumbsup:

Here's a forward view from Central Oregon, still no passing, at my age I wait til they fall down. :rules:

http://youtu.be/HqWLJxIECuw

Nice video, looks like a fun riding area :thumbsup:

I quit doing the fast stuff and passing too... Riding trials is good because when you fall down your only going 2 MPH.

[intocarss]

WELL ?? :guns:

[Sieg]

WELL ?? :guns:
Weather was nice this afternoon (46* dry), my schedule (obligations) didn't allow any play time. :bang: :sieg:

[intocarss]

Weather was nice this afternoon (46* dry), my schedule (obligations) didn't allow any play time. :bang: :sieg: Ok you get a Hall Pass :rules:

[GregWeld]

It was a lot better than the weather Guru's forecasted wasn't it. :thumbsup:

Has the Eagle landed in SoCal?



Yep -- got here an hour before my buddy landed at Ontario airport -- unloaded his Range Rover -- drove to the airport and picked him up - and off he went to Palm Springs... Met up with Rudy and we've had showers and dinner - and have a plan to hit So Cal Speed Shop get together in the morning - hit the NHRA Museum - and then pound our feet into submission doing the show until it closes.


EEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA

[GregWeld]

P.S.


The weather has been complete crap on the entire drive.... including "sunny warm so cal".


Spent $85 today getting the truck and trailer washed ---- because it looked "kinda" promising around 8AM --- by 9AM it was raining...

Oh well... Beats working for a living! :poke: :D

[Sieg]

Yep -- got here an hour before my buddy landed at Ontario airport -- unloaded his Range Rover -- drove to the airport and picked him up - and off he went to Palm Springs... Met up with Rudy and we've had showers and dinner - and have a plan to hit So Cal Speed Shop get together in the morning - hit the NHRA Museum - and then pound our feet into submission doing the show until it closes.


EEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA
:drool: :willy: :bang: :bang: :bang:

PS - Hope the his Range Rover makes it to Palm Springs. :D

[Sieg]

P.S.


The weather has been complete crap on the entire drive.... including "sunny warm so cal".


Spent $85 today getting the truck and trailer washed ---- because it looked "kinda" promising around 8AM --- by 9AM it was raining...

Oh well... Beats working for a living! :poke: :D
Bummer. It will break tomorrow so you'll be compelled to wash it again. Let Rudy know if I was riding shotgun I'd wash it for you. :rofl:

[intocarss]

80xmevqkyZI

:poke:

[Sieg]

How could you expose such a high-tech tuning method on Lat-g :confused59:

He knows how to build, tune and play...........

4qHUbF6PmbU

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Dang looks like uncle Jesse got a pair from Daiseys laundry day crate.

[Sieg]

Finally got to take a drive! Up to temp still hollow off idle, pulled over added 1/8 to the fuel screws, few miles on the highway, added another 1/8 turn and it's close!!! Possibly a little richer on the fuel screws or maybe an 1/8 turn tighter on the primary accelerator pump and bingo! 1,800 rpm in 6th was not as good as it could be, 2,100 in 5th good comfy cruise throttle at 63 mph. 3rd gear 4K hard roll on was........http://www.advrider.com/forums/images/smilies/lieb62.gif

Now I can relax and start tuning this clunker! :woot: :woot:

[GregWeld]

Bummer. It will break tomorrow so you'll be compelled to wash it again. Let Rudy know if I was riding shotgun I'd wash it for you. :rofl:



If you saw it right now you'd swear it was grey and the trailer was brown. It ain't as much dirt as it is GRIT. WTF I just parked it and flew back to SV. Maybe the Seattle rain will knock the chunks off while I'm gone. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Finally got to take a drive! Up to temp still hollow off idle, pulled over added 1/8 to the fuel screws, few miles on the highway, added another 1/8 turn and it's close!!! Possibly a little richer on the fuel screws or maybe an 1/8 turn tighter on the primary accelerator pump and bingo! 1,800 rpm in 6th was not as good as it could be, 2,100 in 5th good comfy cruise throttle at 63 mph. 3rd gear 4K hard roll on was........http://www.advrider.com/forums/images/smilies/lieb62.gif

Now I can relax and start tuning this clunker! :woot: :woot:




Glad to hear it's getting closer. They are just motors - air - fuel - spark.... eventually it all has to come together! :popcorn2:

[ccracin]

When you think the fuel screws are close, try something. With the engine off, screw each screw all the way in and count the turns. after recording that, put them back to where you had them. With the engine warm and idling, check your fuel bowl level and idle speed to make sure they are correct. Now hook a vacuum gauge to the vacuum port on the side of the metering block. Now turn one screw in until the car starts to stumble then back out. Keep turning it out until the engine smooths and you obtain the highest vacuum reading. As soon as you get the highest reading, stop. If the idle is now a bit above where it was, back the idle back down to where you wanted it. Then go to the other screw and do the same thing. When you get the highest vacuum stop turning that screw. Again if the rpm is higher than you want, readjust it back to where you want With the idle adjuster screw. Go back to the other side and turn it in and out slightly to see if you can improve the vacuum reading. Maintain the highest vacuum reading you can. Go to the other side and do the same thing. When you are done, recap the vacuum port and take it for a ride. If you accelerator pump is adjusted close you should have a good crisp throttle. If this doesn't work for you, you can always go back to where you recorded the position of the screws before. Good luck! :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

If you saw it right now you'd swear it was grey and the trailer was brown. It ain't as much dirt as it is GRIT. WTF I just parked it and flew back to SV. Maybe the Seattle rain will knock the chunks off while I'm gone. :thumbsup:
SV - Good for you! :thumbsup:

:idea: Maybe you need to send Gwen's Pool Boy to detailing school?

[Sieg]

When you think the fuel screws are close, try something. With the engine off, screw each screw all the way in and count the turns. after recording that, put them back to where you had them. With the engine warm and idling, check your fuel bowl level and idle speed to make sure they are correct. Now hook a vacuum gauge to the vacuum port on the side of the metering block. Now turn one screw in until the car starts to stumble then back out. Keep turning it out until the engine smooths and you obtain the highest vacuum reading. As soon as you get the highest reading, stop. If the idle is now a bit above where it was, back the idle back down to where you wanted it. Then go to the other screw and do the same thing. When you get the highest vacuum stop turning that screw. Again if the rpm is higher than you want, readjust it back to where you want With the idle adjuster screw. Go back to the other side and turn it in and out slightly to see if you can improve the vacuum reading. Maintain the highest vacuum reading you can. Go to the other side and do the same thing. When you are done, recap the vacuum port and take it for a ride. If your accelerator pump is adjusted close you should have a good crisp throttle. If this doesn't work for you, you can always go back to where you recorded the position of the screws before. Good luck! :thumbsup:
Thanks Chad - That's basically my procedure but this carb has the idle bypass valve circuit in the baseplate so it finding the traditional happy places has another new element to me. Right now I'm roughly 3-3 1/8 turns out and just a hair above 10" on the vac gauge @ 1K rpm. I've been adjusting all fuel screws equally to find a base which I think I now have and can dial them by ear and guage individually now. I don't think this cam will give much more than 11" - 11.5", but the new heads and manifold add yet another unknown element. :D

Just took another test drive and it is better and feels pretty strong in the upper rpm range of 3rd & 4th with out of the box jetting. The RPM Air Gap manifold is definitely an improvement over the old Torker II.

Can't wait for better weather and a free day to nothing but test and tune!

[ccracin]

Thanks Chad - That's basically my procedure but this carb has the idle bypass valve circuit in the baseplate so it finding the traditional happy places has another new element to me. Right now I'm roughly 3-3 1/8 turns out and just a hair above 10" on the vac gauge @ 1K rpm. I've been adjusting all fuel screws equally to find a base which I think I now have and can dial them by ear and guage individually now. I don't think this cam will give much more than 11" - 11.5", but the new heads and manifold add yet another unknown element. :D

Just took another test drive and it is better and feels pretty strong in the upper rpm range of 3rd & 4th with out of the box jetting. The RPM Air Gap manifold is definitely an improvement over the old Torker II.

Can't wait for better weather and a free day to nothing but test and tune!

I figured you had it! I went through multiple methods when we were racing stock cars. It was tough because we had to run restriction plates and the vacuum signal was very strong above the plate. You're on it man keep having fun! :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Fired it up yesterday in an attempt to fine tune the fuel screws and max the idle vacuum. Notice the linkage was binding and restricting low speed idle adjustment range (950 rpm and lower), resolved that by bending the throttle rod, then checked the range on each fuel screw and balanced, rechecked range, but it just isn't acting right. Vague input response may best describe it. Based on pressure readings when I started this mess it was a consistent 5 psi while idling, yesterday it was showing 3.5 psi at 1K rpm so the old Holley pump may be failing......epic timing. :headscratch: Ordered a new fuel pump last night to eliminate pressure concerns. Holley mechanical that (per Holley) doesn't require a regulator and delivers 6.5-8 psi max and 110 gph.

[GregWeld]

Old pumps and new fuel.....


Good to replace it and ANY old rubber fuel line. Had one buddy chasing a fueling issue - replaced pump TWICE -- turns out the insides of the 50 year old factory rubber lines (that connected the steel lines) had failed and was acting like a check valve.

Any more - I only use PTFE lined braided if I need a wobble point.

[GregWeld]

BTW - I'm no carb guy -- but I thought that the air bleeds (not to be confused with idle fuel adjustment screws) were there to overcome big azz cams that just couldn't be tamed with the idle screws. Since we know that carbs work via vacuum (actually low pressure in the ventures) -- any source of vacuum (air) leak is going cause you to have to fatten the idle screws and is going to also cause a higher idle.

Might just try to plug them temporarily and see what happens to the response and idle adjustment??

[Sieg]

Old pumps and new fuel.....


Good to replace it and ANY old rubber fuel line. Had one buddy chasing a fueling issue - replaced pump TWICE -- turns out the insides of the 50 year old factory rubber lines (that connected the steel lines) had failed and was acting like a check valve.

Any more - I only use PTFE lined braided if I need a wobble point.
E10 may have finally gotten to it, we'll see.

There's no OEM rubber on it, the tank to hard line is the oldest, I just replaced the rubber line between the fuel pump and hard line which was installed at the same time and it appeared OK just a little hardened.

BTW - I'm no carb guy -- but I thought that the air bleeds (not to be confused with idle fuel adjustment screws) were there to overcome big azz cams that just couldn't be tamed with the idle screws. Since we know that carbs work via vacuum (actually low pressure in the ventures) -- any source of vacuum (air) leak is going cause you to have to fatten the idle screws and is going to also cause a higher idle.

Might just try to plug them temporarily and see what happens to the response and idle adjustment??

The only vac leak I know of would be from the baseplate and spacer and I checked those surfaces with a straight edge. This carb has no vac ports. PCV and gauge vacuum come off the intake manifold behind the carb.

The idle bypass valve is what I don't have a good feel for yet. Holley tech said the there's no relationship between fuel screws and this circuit? But when you open up that valve it creates a lean idle similar to a vacuum leak.

Being patient......should have the pump in two days.

Yes...........Fast EZ-efi would be nice but way too simple and............:G-Dub:

[GregWeld]

When I say vacuum leak. I mean ANYWHERE air is allowed into the engine. I don't just mean a bad seal.... The air bleeds are technically a "controlled" vacuum leak... As is a PCV etc.

[GregWeld]

Sitting at Boise airport since Alaska canceled the sun valley flight "due to weather". Right! It was clear blue skies and u could see for miles. Oh well.

[Sieg]

When I say vacuum leak. I mean ANYWHERE air is allowed into the engine. I don't just mean a bad seal.... The air bleeds are technically a "controlled" vacuum leak... As is a PCV etc.

Nit-Picker! :action-smiley-027:

The air bleeds AND that idle bypass valve.

If the carb isn't getting adequate fuel pressure at idle would that impact the idle circuit function?

[DaleTx]

Sieg.... sounds like your getting closer to resolving the tuning issues with your new carb :thumbsup:

Here is a link to a thread I ran across that has some discussion about tuning the Holley HP Ultra carbs that could be helpful.

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/296322-holley-650-ultra-hp-carb-idle.html

[GregWeld]

Nit-Picker! :action-smiley-027:

The air bleeds AND that idle bypass valve.

If the carb isn't getting adequate fuel pressure at idle would that impact the idle circuit function?



I don't think it would affect idle at all.

[Sieg]

Sieg.... sounds like your getting closer to resolving the tuning issues with your new carb :thumbsup:

Here is a link to a thread I ran across that has some discussion about tuning the Holley HP Ultra carbs that could be helpful.

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/296322-holley-650-ultra-hp-carb-idle.html
Thanks Dale, I can definitely relate to those posts, especially j.b.goode's. :thumbsup:

Holley tech told me the transfer slot exposure is supposed to be .025 even though the manual which is relatively detailed makes no reference. That's where I set them and it results in a fast idle and the idle bypass valve is relatively ineffective in controlling idle speed. The motor has been weak/flat/stumbles/bogs when engaging the clutch which says lean. Just haven't been able to find that crisp and meaty response right off idle yet.

I'm going to retain the primary transfer slot spec and back the idle down with the secondaries and see what it gives me. It's about time to say screw the rules and tune by response!

The upside is off idle performance is pretty strong, trailing throttle in corners is good, roll on's into the secondaries near seamless. The pump cams and squirters even feel close but I will test +/- alternatives just because.

I'm close, another decade should do it at my current rate. :D

Disclosure: In no way do I feel this carb is at fault. :( .......it's me :sieg:

[Roberts68]

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/31899_408196319272204_2122378597_n.jpg

:idea: I saw this and immediately thought of where I could share it. Hope you haven't seen it. :D

[Sieg]

:idea: I saw this and immediately thought of where I could share it. Hope you haven't seen it. :D
I've seen it but it's still funny!

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000762375/polls_stylish_dog_ass_1325_313954_poll_xlarge.jpeg

[intocarss]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/UPSIDEDOWN.jpg

[Frankenstine]

I not hating guys, But I was looking at this forum hoping to see an update but there are none really, for the last 23 pages or so there is not much if anything updated, should this be moved to engine Technical questions? sence he is having engine issues, I like the car and the build, just not all the chit chat, dog picks and vids, and other stuff other than updates, like I said I'm not hating, JMO, Good luck with the fix on the engine issues,

[GregWeld]

I not hating guys, But I was looking at this forum hoping to see an update but there are none really, for the last 23 pages or so there is not much if anything updated, should this be moved to engine Technical questions? sence he is having engine issues, I like the car and the build, just not all the chit chat, dog picks and vids, and other stuff other than updates, like I said I'm not hating, JMO, Good luck with the fix on the engine issues,



Unsubscribe....


It ain't going to get any better.

[Frankenstine]

Trying to unsubscribe:getout:

[Sieg]

I not hating guys, But I was looking at this forum hoping to see an update but there are none really, for the last 23 pages or so there is not much if anything updated, should this be moved to engine Technical questions? sence he is having engine issues, I like the car and the build, just not all the chit chat, dog picks and vids, and other stuff other than updates, like I said I'm not hating, JMO, Good luck with the fix on the engine issues,

Understood, technically it should be moved to the off-topic section since a carbureted Gen 1 engine really isn't an engine around here. :D

Please understand this is far from a high profile/budget build. It never will be as I simply can't afford it. It's somewhat representative of all the life issues, dreams, desires, and comradeship that occur within this hobby over the course of a vehicles ownership. Regarding the updates: children, employment, fiscal resources, and weather are currently impacting progress. That and a certain lack of talent. :sieg:

I certainly don't want this thread to negatively impact the true caliber of the numerous individuals, builders, and exceptional cars that are and will continue to be the foundation of Lat-g. If the managers, moderators, and key contributors feel that is the case I have no problem with them deleting the thread. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Trying to unsubscribe:getout:




Go to USER CP --- it will show all threads you're subscribed to. Under the title will be "unsubscribe".


I was kidding of course -- but I don't think the thread will ever be just purely technical. It's too much fun having fun. :lol:

[GregWeld]

That and a certain lack of talent. :sieg:



In GOLF -- I'd tell you that you had a lot of LOFT in that shot....



Lack Of F'n Talent

[intocarss]

Unsubscribe....


It ain't going to get any better. It can always get better GW..We're just warming up :peepwall:

[GregWeld]

It can always get better GW..We're just warming up :peepwall:



TRUE!!!


It's a matter of ones perspective.... Not getting any better in my perspective is AWESOME! :lol: :lol:

[Sieg]

In GOLF -- I'd tell you that you had a lot of LOFT in that shot....



Lack Of F'n Talent
The excessive loft comment on the course still catches them off guard. :D

That and "do you know how much a flag stick weighs?"..........well maybe you should pick one up once in a while and you'd know. :D

[Ron in SoCal]

I certainly don't want this thread to negatively impact the true caliber of the numerous individuals, builders, and exceptional cars that are and will continue to be the foundation of Lat-g. If the managers, moderators, and key contributors feel that is the case I have no problem with them deleting the thread. :thumbsup:

Shuddup.

This forum is for its members, not solely a vendor/sponsor build showcase. Last I checked you fall into that category. See: :sieg:

[Sieg]

Shuddup.

This forum is for its members, not solely a vendor/sponsor build showcase. Last I checked you fall into that category. See: :sieg:Thank you.......but I know where I stand in the pecking order around here and fully accept that. I have way too much respect and appreciation for the numerous serious players here to want to compromise them in any manner with my silly build thread.

I shuddup now :sieg:

:thumbsup:

[Ron in SoCal]

IMHO there is no pecking order. Just a bunch of friends giving each other a hard time. :cheers:

[Flash68]

I like the car and the build, just not all the chit chat, dog picks and vids, and other stuff other than updates,

You posted the same basic complaint on another thread. Come on man.

Understood, technically it should be moved to the off-topic section since a carbureted Gen 1 engine really isn't an engine around here. :D

Please understand this is far from a high profile/budget build. It never will be as I simply can't afford it. It's somewhat representative of all the life issues, dreams, desires, and comradeship that occur within this hobby over the course of a vehicles ownership. Regarding the updates: children, employment, fiscal resources, and weather are currently impacting progress. That and a certain lack of talent. :sieg:

I certainly don't want this thread to negatively impact the true caliber of the numerous individuals, builders, and exceptional cars that are and will continue to be the foundation of Lat-g. If the managers, moderators, and key contributors feel that is the case I have no problem with them deleting the thread. :thumbsup:

Thank you.......but I know where I stand in the pecking order around here and fully accept that. I have way too much respect and appreciation for the numerous serious players here to want to compromise them in any manner with my silly build thread.

I shuddup now :sieg:

:thumbsup:

Yeah shuddup. :D There is no pecking order. You are no less or no more important than another member. Well, maybe more important than that Weld guy. But that's a low bar. :peepwall:

If someone wants to be in an elitist atmosphere, there are plenty of forums for that (spend a few minutes on an exotic car forum).

My personal feeling is that if someone wants to chronicle the build and/or the subsequent tuning/modding/driving/etc of a car they own, they can pen the story however they please. The simple solution for those not interested -- that magic unsubscribe button.

And also, for Frankenstine, if you get email notifications for threads you are subscribed to there is also the unsubscribe link in the body of that email at the bottom.

[intocarss]

IMHO there is no pecking order. Just a bunch of friends giving each other a hard time. :cheers: What he said :warning: HELL If there is a "pecking order".... SIEGYDOG you got more into your carb and transmission then my whole car.. So I'd say I'm behind YOU

[GregWeld]

etBoJJ0GZI8

[Sieg]

What he said :warning: HELL If there is a "pecking order".... SIEGYDOG you got more into your carb and transmission then my whole car.. So I'd say I'm behind YOU
Which reminds me........when are you going to do a build thread on your brakes?
:action-smiley-027:

[Flash68]

Which reminds me........when are you going to do a build thread on your brakes?
:action-smiley-027:

:bitchslap:

[Sieg]

Thanks gentlemen, it's appreciated. :thumbsup:

I'm not getting overly sensitive from a personal perspective, though I do make a conscient effort to be sensitive to others even though it may not be seen on the surface......just a minute I need to grab another Kleenex. :D

Better safe than sorry in this environment without being able to read body language mistakes and assumptions can easily occur.

Please don't forget you're all an integral part of achieving the Lat-g record in a respectably competitive field for most uselessology posts and views. :rules:

[Frankenstine]

Unsubcribed :thankyou:

[Flash68]

Unsubcribed :thankyou:

You'll be back... we know you're just dying to see if this carb will ever actually work properly. :D

[Sieg]

You'll be back... we know you're just dying to see if this carb will ever actually work properly. :D

Hopefully it will be close by the time you get your motor fired up. :D

[intocarss]

Which reminds me........when are you going to do a build thread on your brakes?
:action-smiley-027: WHEN IT STOPS :getout:

[Ron in SoCal]

Unsubcribed :thankyou:

Now we can have some fun :lol:

BOv-2HzNPaA

[Sieg]

:thumbsup:

Sieg to ghost rider..............requesting a fly bye

W4E3euRhQus

[GregWeld]

Are those two mutts happy or what!!!! :lol: :lol:

[GregWeld]

Thanks gentlemen, it's appreciated. :thumbsup:

I'm not getting overly sensitive from a personal perspective, though I do make a conscient effort to be sensitive to others even though it may not be seen on the surface......just a minute I need to grab another Kleenex. :D

Better safe than sorry in this environment without being able to read body language mistakes and assumptions can easily occur.

Please don't forget you're all an integral part of achieving the Lat-g record in a respectably competitive field for most uselessology posts and views. :rules:




SAY WHAT???!!!!????

[Sieg]

SAY WHAT???!!!!????

conscious
I can't believe your secretary caught that typo.
:sieg:

[intocarss]

IeD0fQxyi_c

[Sieg]

That process was pretty impressive for any dog.

Don't think I can give Tucker that much IQ credit........yet :sieg:

Sure wish he was good at tuning 4150 Holley's. :lmao:

[intocarss]

That process was pretty impressive for any dog.

Don't think I can give Tucker that much IQ credit........yet :sieg:

Sure wish he was good at tuning 4150 Holley's. :lmao:HOW DO YOU KNOW HE AIN'T??:bitchslap: Rev on timing & Tucker on tuning!!

[FETorino]

Thank you.......but I know where I stand in the pecking order around here and fully accept that. I have way too much respect and appreciation for the numerous serious players here to want to compromise them in any manner with my silly build thread.

I shuddup now :sieg:

:thumbsup:

You gotta be kidding right. :bitchslap: Each thread is the car owners story isn't it? There has been plenty of build on this thread. Sometimes people wonder why a post doesn't have updates. What wrong with us keeping up to date with what you aren't doing? Nobody is forced to look at a thread are they? :lostmarbles:

Why do I have to read about somebody's inability to use the thread tools on this thread? Isn't there a section for that type of question?

[Vegas69]

IeD0fQxyi_c

Honestly, looks like a young dog that likes to tug on a rope and accidentally opened the door. If it was my dog, it wouldn't be tearing up my house like that. :D

[Vegas69]

IMHO there is no pecking order. Just a bunch of friends giving each other a hard time. :cheers:

You've been in California to long. There is a pecking order in life. Just ask Greg Weld. :mock:

[fleetus macmullitz]

WHEN IT STOPS :getout:

Ouch. :rolleyes:

ENiNwoCxUAg

[intocarss]

[QUOTE=compos mentis;464765]Ouch. :rolleyes:



:idea: :thumbsup: :idea: :thankyou:

[GregWeld]

Hey! If we don't get back to having some fun.... I'm going to figure out how to unsubscribe!!

[fleetus macmullitz]

Hey! If we don't get back to having some fun.... I'm going to figure out how to unsubscribe!!

Multiple times!

:peepwall:

LOL

[GregWeld]

Just keep chipping away at it!








XRIzE_xMqMI

[intocarss]

Hey! If we don't get back to having some fun.... I'm going to figure out how to unsubscribe!!


xB7iz1HTh9U&list=LL5fmGBuPX-szSNRcB9QBs3Q

[fleetus macmullitz]

Hey! If we don't get back to having some fun.... I'm going to figure out how to unsubscribe!!


xB7iz1HTh9U&list=LL5fmGBuPX-szSNRcB9QBs3Q

:thankyou: for that Jerdog...that was funny!

[GregWeld]

My toodles had shrinkage!

[Lenie]

My toodles had shrinkage!

toodles! Where do you come up w/this stuff.:rofl:

[fleetus macmullitz]

My toodles had shrinkage!

xCc-RWIp7XU

[intocarss]

xxvdvoQgAy8

[Sieg]

Crap! It's turning into a short movie thread now. :lmao: :popcorn2:

[Roberts68]

Crap! It's turning into a short movie thread now. :lmao: :popcorn2:

:idea: Hmmm... movie clips huh? I wonder how long until the boobie still shots evolve in that fashion?:popcorn2:
:D

[Sieg]

More trivial pursuit..........

Does anyone know how short Accel "shorty" plugs are? I can't find a length specification anywhere for them. :headscratch:

Here's why I ask:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-sTHvxqB/0/M/i-sTHvxqB-M.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4jj2dwR/0/M/i-4jj2dwR-M.jpg

The Autolite's currently in use which I believe are a little shorter than average:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XDRnT7n/0/M/i-XDRnT7n-M.jpg

The boot is burnt to the point where arcing may be an issue.

Any clearance solutions much appreciated!

Connector, boot, shorty plug, clearance the tube, bendable sparky plug? :D

[Sieg]

My toodles had shrinkage!

Tucker scalped his toodles when he spun-out on the driveway the other day.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-zrG2tQn/1/M/i-zrG2tQn-M.jpg

:confused59:

[Ron in SoCal]

I dig your dog aventures and all Sieg, but I coulda done without that one. :poke:

[Sieg]

I dig your dog aventures and all Sieg, but I coulda done without that one. :poke:
Sorry life happens...........and my dogs ain't wearing undies. :D

[Ron in SoCal]

Sorry life happens...........and my dogs ain't wearing undies. :D

Sometimes I don't either, but I aint posting pics :lol:

[FETorino]

More trivial pursuit..........

The boot is burnt to the point where arcing may be an issue.

Any clearance solutions much appreciated!

Connector, boot, shorty plug, clearance the tube, bendable sparky plug? :D

Run a straight boot on that cylinder and cover it with one of these or similar.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hsp-400204

[intocarss]

I dig your dog aventures and all Sieg, but I coulda done without that one. :poke: I 2ND THAT

Sorry life happens...........and my dogs ain't wearing undies. :D :lmao: :lmao:
Sometimes I don't either, but I aint posting pics :lol: :thankyou:



"Run a straight boot on that cylinder and cover it with one of these or similar".

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hsp-400204

^^^^ SIEG BABY Do what Rob suggested ^^^^

[Sieg]

I dig your dog aventures and all Sieg, but I coulda done without that one. :poke:

I 2ND THAT

At least I warned you guy's that there would be Toodles...........I guess just be thankful there not ours! :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

The boot is burnt to the point where arcing may be an issue.

Any clearance solutions much appreciated!

Connector, boot, shorty plug, clearance the tube, bendable sparky plug? :D



The Accel Shorty plugs are hardly any different than a normal plug... like a 1/4" shorter max.


The problem is the headers are for slant plug heads... and you're using straight plug heads.... the straight plug headers would extend further out before making the bend downward.


Try a narrower boot and then run a sock on it as well -- those boots are good - but they're also super fat.

[intocarss]

Tucker scalped his toodles when he spun-out on the driveway the other day.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-zrG2tQn/1/M/i-zrG2tQn-M.jpg

:confused59:

BTW Tucker needs a skid plate!!

[GregWeld]

Tucker scalped his toodles when he spun-out on the driveway the other day.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-zrG2tQn/1/M/i-zrG2tQn-M.jpg

:confused59:




At least he can lick his "wounds".....

[Sieg]

I think I would have been ok with 1 5/8 tubes, the 1 3/4" and less than optimal clearancing on that tube didn't help, thankfully it's the only one with issues. I can't believe you didn't angle plug heads in stock. :D

I measured an NGK plug I had and it was .25" longer than the Autolite, so the Accel at best is 1.75" which won't help.

MSD offers these race boots, I'll get both angles and see which provides the most clearance.

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Spark_Plug_Wires/Accessories/3327_-_Pro_Race,_High_Temp_Boots,_Straight,_2/Card.aspx

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Spark_Plug_Wires/Accessories/3326_-_Pro_Race,_High_Temp_Boots,115%C2%B0,_2/Card.aspx

I may use the Moroso sleeves because the Heatshield Products sleeves are double layer which could be an issue. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-71993

[intocarss]

How about a peice of header wrap safety wired on that tube in that spot? I may have a peice here or can get one. I may also have a couple of those plug boots

[Sieg]

How about a peice of header wrap safety wired on that tube in that spot? I may have a peice here or can get one. I may also have a couple of those plug boots
The tubes touch each other and tube to boot clearance is so tight theres not much room. With the MSD grey boots it's a wedge fit until they get toasted and crumble.

Hopefully the angle boots work to keep the wire runs clean and since they sell the boots and sleeves in pairs I might as well do #3 cylinder since the boot just touches.

Here's my temp fix.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Z6dxz3X/0/M/i-Z6dxz3X-M.jpg

Really appreciate the offer, but I already have a list pending at Summit so I'll just add the boots. Besides you need all the time you can get to work on your brakes. :D

Rev says.........focus on your brakes Jerison!
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WWMpfWm/0/L/i-WWMpfWm-L.jpg

[intocarss]

Tell REV I'm on IT :hello:

[Sieg]

It feels so wrong beating the ceramic coating off a new header. Wish Doug's would have pinched that tube .25" in the right spot. :(

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7vW4zGh/0/XL/i-7vW4zGh-XL.jpg

Had to lay of the front fender and brace on the air cleaner to get the right angle, tight swing area, small hammer, 300+ blows equals decent forearm pump too. :sieg:

[Roberts68]

Awe Sieg, I feel for you. :mad:
That had to sting a little to start smacking shiny parts so soon after :G-Dub:

[GregWeld]

I'd have lit up my oxy acetylene torch... Metal
Bends easy when it's glowing like a cherry!!!



Hahahaha



That sucks but is "hot rodding".

[Sieg]

I'd have lit up my oxy acetylene torch... Metal
Bends easy when it's glowing like a cherry!!!

I know, you should see my tail pipes near the top of the rear wheels......pancakes.

I have a map gas torch but the angle wasn't the best, besides I don't like playing with fire that much any more........and Norwood was starting to piss me off so hammering on him a bit was good therapy. :D

That plug cap was arcing and causing a slight miss.

I went from 70 to 67 air bleeds. Idle now has a little meat to it.

Tighten the accel pump a little.

It's getting better.

Next will be going to 5.0 power valves from 5.5's.

I'll probably get some 65 air bleeds just to test as the idle by-pass valve is about a 1/2 turn from closed out of a 5 turn range.

[glassman]

Ya might of knocked some sense into the carb too, all that energy right into the combustion chamber, through the intake, and Bam. She'll run better.....:warning:

[Sieg]

Ya might of knocked some sense into the carb too, all that energy right into the combustion chamber, through the intake, and Bam. She'll run better.....:warning::warning: :thumbsup:

[waynieZ]

It hurt but at least its good now.

[DaleTx]

I know, you should see my tail pipes near the top of the rear wheels......pancakes.

I have a map gas torch but the angle wasn't the best, besides I don't like playing with fire that much any more........and Norwood was starting to piss me off so hammering on him a bit was good therapy. :D

That plug cap was arcing and causing a slight miss.

I went from 70 to 67 air bleeds. Idle now has a little meat to it.

Tighten the accel pump a little.

It's getting better.

Next will be going to 5.0 power valves from 5.5's.

I'll probably get some 65 air bleeds just to test as the idle by-pass valve is about a 1/2 turn from closed out of a 5 turn range.

I don't know if this is helpful or not but my Holley 650 double pumper (4150 HP) that I had on my Gen 1 350 had a 65 power valve stock. I ended up running a 75 power valve which dumped some extra fuel in sooner... and that helped to get rid of the flat spot I had when accelerating coming off idle. Sometimes it's hard to tell if you lean or rich when it stumbles but on mine the larger power valve did the trick. Good luck with the tuning :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

I don't know if this is helpful or not but my Holley 650 double pumper (4150 HP) that I had on my Gen 1 350 had a 65 power valve stock. I ended up running a 75 power valve which dumped some extra fuel in sooner... and that helped to get rid of the flat spot I had when accelerating coming off idle. Sometimes it's hard to tell if you lean or rich when it stumbles but on mine the larger power valve did the trick. Good luck with the tuning :thumbsup:

Thanks Dale - I'm going by the basic rule power valve = .5 or manifold vacuum which I'm only getting 10 inches, 11 if it's perfect. I have stock in 4.5, 5.0, 5.5, and 6.5. :D It has 5.5's in it now.

For the off-idle flat spot the pump linkage adjustment, squirter size, and pump cams are what I use fine tune. I'm hoping it's in the ballpark and I can start fine tuning when the weather improves.

[Sieg]

It hurt but at least its good now.Hopefully it's good, the boot still contacts the pipe but it's not compressed against it like the other was and I switched to MSD's "racing" boot which is labeled high-temp. We shall see. :warning:

[protour73]

Scott, you are going through exactly the same things that I'm going through on my car, so I love this thread!!

I'm not an experienced carb tuner guy and after purchasing a Holley 4150 DP from Patrick at Pro Systems I'm into all sorts of tuning territory I've never been to before.

I installed a wideband O2 sensor which really helped get a hand on some things like the power valve choice. When you are driving the car, you can actually see when the power valve opens by watching the gauge!! The carb shipped with a 5.5 PV incorrectly, which I've bumped up to a 7.5, and I changed out the idle air bleeds a couple times as well to get rid of a pig rich idle -- so I feel your pain :bang:

Keep on working at it!! :thankyou:

[Sieg]

Scott, you are going through exactly the same things that I'm going through on my car, so I love this thread!!

I'm not an experienced carb tuner guy and after purchasing a Holley 4150 DP from Patrick at Pro Systems I'm into all sorts of tuning territory I've never been to before.

I installed a wideband O2 sensor which really helped get a hand on some things like the power valve choice. When you are driving the car, you can actually see when the power valve opens by watching the gauge!! The carb shipped with a 5.5 PV incorrectly, which I've bumped up to a 7.5, and I changed out the idle air bleeds a couple times as well to get rid of a pig rich idle -- so I feel your pain :bang:

Keep on working at it!! :thankyou:
Thank you. :thumbsup:

Your car is awesome! Appears our builds have somewhat similar objectives and I'm a big fan of 2nd Gen's and Yellow.

My carb came with 6.5 power valves and 70 air bleeds.......seat of the pants tuning and experimenting along with baselines from the previous Demon carb have lead me to 5.0 power valve and richening the idle circuit. Somewhat opposite of your situation..........how many inches of vacuum does your motor have at idle? What A/F monitor are you running?

The carb circuit that I don't have a good feel for yet is the idle bypass valve........as is the idle circuit wants that valve completely shut (no additional air) which leads me to believe the idle air bleeds were too big. On the scale of available jets 70's are close to the largest. So I'm assuming smaller idle air bleeds will make the idle bypass valve functional. I don't like having any circuit set at the extreme range of adjustment high or low. If altitude, temp, and air desity change I want to insure there's room to adjust the circuit........balance is good. :)

Here's the tuning guide for the Ultra HP.
http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/199R10565rev1.pdf

Getting a carb right in the garages is one thing, on the street is another, and under hard braking yet another.........there are times it could be considered a masochistic process. :D

[DaleTx]

Sieg... I bought an AEM wideband AFR system. Here is a link to their website http://www.aemelectronics.com/

This setup worked out well, the gauge is easy to read. It's a great tool to get real time feedback on the AFR for tuning like protour73 said.

:thumbsup:

[protour73]

Thank you. :thumbsup:

Your car is awesome! Appears our builds have somewhat similar objectives and I'm a big fan of 2nd Gen's and Yellow.

My carb came with 6.5 power valves and 70 air bleeds.......seat of the pants tuning and experimenting along with baselines from the previous Demon carb have lead me to 5.0 power valve and richening the idle circuit. Somewhat opposite of your situation..........how many inches of vacuum does your motor have at idle? What A/F monitor are you running?

The carb circuit that I don't have a good feel for yet is the idle bypass valve........as is the idle circuit wants that valve completely shut (no additional air) which leads me to believe the idle air bleeds were too big. On the scale of available jets 70's are close to the largest. So I'm assuming smaller idle air bleeds will make the idle bypass valve functional. I don't like having any circuit set at the extreme range of adjustment high or low. If altitude, temp, and air desity change I want to insure there's room to adjust the circuit........balance is good. :)

Here's the tuning guide for the Ultra HP.
http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/199R10565rev1.pdf

Getting a carb right in the garages is one thing, on the street is another, and under hard braking yet another.........there are times it could be considered a masochistic process. :DThanks for the kind words on the car!

Even with the GM H.O.T. cam (fairly mild, but better than the stock ZZ4 cam), I'm at 16-17" inches of vacuum at idle. I've gone to bigger idle air bleeds to try to lean out that rich idle which has improved it, but still needs work. I still have a slight stumble at take off.

The wideband O2 sensor I went with was the Innovate Motorsports MTX-L http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004MDT8MW/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/images/MTXL_All_Web.jpg

[Sieg]

Thanks for the info gentlemen. :thumbsup:

The Innovative unit and Amazon Prime :unibrow:

Were did you boys mount your O2 sensor and guage?
The ideal world would be both engine compartment and cockpit. :grin:

Scott - That stumble may be a simple as lengthening your primary accel pump link by turning 1 or 2 flats (or more) of the adjuster nut. The timing of that squirt of fuel is pretty sensitive and critical in the final stages of clutch engagement IMO. Once that stumble is gone you can then tune for power with squirter volume and cam profiles which effect the fuel delivery curve.

The off-idle power and roll-on performance of my old Demon improved dramtically with a little larger squirter (.028 drilled to .033) and the dark green pump cam in the #1 position.

Roads are actually dry for a change - time to test!

[intocarss]

The O2 sensor goes (If running headers) in the header collector (welded bung) just after where the 4 tubes dump into the collector and put the gauage anywhere you can see it

[protour73]

Gauge location:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r204/protour73/O2%20Sensor%20Install/IMG_4408.jpg

Sensor location:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r204/protour73/O2%20Sensor%20Install/IMG_4399.jpg

[DaleTx]

I put the bung for the sensor on the inside of the header on the drivers side a few inches back from where the pipes merge.

Here is a shot of the gauge location I used.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/picsjan6003_zpsd63f0721.jpg

[Sieg]

Thanks again guys :thumbsup:

Is it a major foul to mount it in the pipe behind the flange like Scott did?

I already beat the crap out of the #5 head pipe yesterday, torturing it again vs. installing the bung when the new pipes are installed would be easier. :sieg:

[DaleTx]

Mounting the bung behind the header flange is fine. On the new LS engine I put the O2 sensor for the ECM on the header side of the flange and the O2 sensor for the wideband on the exhaust side of the flange. Works fine.

:thumbsup:

[protour73]

Thanks again guys :thumbsup:

Is it a major foul to mount it in the pipe behind the flange like Scott did?

I already beat the crap out of the #5 head pipe yesterday, torturing it again vs. installing the bung when the new pipes are installed would be easier. :sieg:Sieg, it was way easier when I picked up these new Hooker reducers with the welded flange which seal way better than the slip flange type. I brought the driver side into a locally owned muffler shop and they welded the bung on for $20!!

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/wcsstore/CVWEB/staticproductimage//N3331/large/22311411_hoo_11040hkr_pri_larg.jpg

[GregWeld]

Scott! Sieg is a master with the TIG torch!



:thumbsup: :D

[protour73]

Scott! Sieg is a master with the TIG torch!



:thumbsup: :DGreg, having never laid down a single bead in my life (yet) I have to depend on local talent!!

SO Sieg is a master TIG artist? or is there an inside joke I'm unaware of? :headscratch:

[Sieg]

Scott! Sieg is a master with the TIG torch!

:thumbsup: :D

http://www.acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/finger.gif

I was out diligently practicing last night with my NEW Hot Rod NO Excuse $$ helmet and the reality is my eyes SUCK for TIG. I'm going to try higher powered readers or the 250+ magnifying lens offered for the helmet. :bang:

Thanks for reminding me and................ :cheers: to shat on your carpet! :D

[GregWeld]

Nobody ever said gettin' old was going to be easy...



I find that light is a big issue with lower power settings on the TIG -- which is why I have a helmet that's range starts at 5.... A lot of the time I'm welding at 7

[GregWeld]

Greg, having never laid down a single bead in my life (yet) I have to depend on local talent!!

SO Sieg is a master TIG artist? or is there an inside joke I'm unaware of? :headscratch:



No -- I'm just poking him...



If it positively absolutely must look perfect.... I take mine to a couple buddies that can lay it down. Me - not so much.

[Sieg]

Nobody ever said gettin' old was going to be easy...

I find that light is a big issue with lower power settings on the TIG -- which is why I have a helmet that's range starts at 5.... A lot of the time I'm welding at 7
Nobody said it was going to be this hard either........being known as the Lat-g TIGtard is one thing :sieg: ........... Ol' Tucker's got his horn on tonight, ever have a Dane lick you on the ears then try to put the hump on ya standing up? :confused59:

[Sieg]

Greg, having never laid down a single bead in my life (yet) I have to depend on local talent!!
NOooooo! Just put the money you'd spend on the equipment in savings account earning .001% interest, pay Billy Bob when you need something done and you'll be money ahead over a five year term! :lol:

SO Sieg is a master TIG artist? or is there an inside joke I'm unaware of? :headscratch:That would be Abstract Artist son...................:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[GregWeld]

Nobody said it was going to be this hard either........being known as the Lat-g TIGtard is one thing :sieg: ........... Ol' Tucker's got his horn on tonight, ever have a Dane lick you on the ears then try to put the hump on ya standing up? :confused59:




Poor Tucker.... trying to find love in all the wrong places.

[intocarss]

http://www.acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/finger.gif

I was out diligently practicing last night with my NEW Hot Rod NO Excuse $$ helmet and the reality is my eyes SUCK for TIG. I'm going to try higher powered readers or the 250+ magnifying lens offered for the helmet. :bang:

Thanks for reminding me and................ :cheers: to shat on your carpet! :D

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/zz_poindexter_by_zenzmurfy-d3hd0ew_zps436aba7b.jpg

[Sieg]

Close Jer but that guy looks like he could tune a carb. The glassed look like the right power though!

[Sieg]

New boot in place.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-zSbNsqf/1/M/i-zSbNsqf-M.jpg

Carb off and disassembled once again to triple check everything.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PB4bbHL/0/XL/i-PB4bbHL-XL.jpg

Pulled idle mixture screws, blew out passages, changed out the 6.5 power valves to 5.0, blueprinted the throttle shaft idle screws relationship to transfer slots so I don't have to pull the carb to know where they're at. 3/4 turn in on primary side puts the bottom side of the butterfly at the bottom of the transfer slot, 1/2 turn exposes .023", secondary uses a different thread pitch, 5/8 turn to bottom and 3/8 turn for .023.

You have to look close to see the transfer slot exposure.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TXbhdW9/1/L/i-TXbhdW9-L.jpg

If verified baseline carb settings don't get rid of the off idle stumble it's time to bump initial ignition advance from 14* to 15-16* and see what we get.

[protour73]

OK Sieg, "blueprint" the idle screws!! What a great frickin idea!! Excellent attention to detail. I have the carb off for the winter, as is tradition, so that I don't leave the corrosive 10% ethanol fuel in the bowls all winter. I will do the same to my carb. THANKS for the great idea. :idea:


Pulled idle mixture screws, blew out passages, changed out the 6.5 power valves to 5.0, blueprinted the throttle shaft idle screws relationship to transfer slots so I don't have to pull the carb to know where they're at. 3/4 turn in on primary side puts the bottom side of the butterfly at the bottom of the transfer slot, 1/2 turn exposes .023", secondary uses a different thread pitch, 5/8 turn to bottom and 3/8 turn for .023.

You have to look close to see the transfer slot exposure.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TXbhdW9/1/L/i-TXbhdW9-L.jpg

If verified baseline carb settings don't get rid of the off idle stumble it's time to bump initial ignition advance from 14* to 15-16* and see what we get.

[DaleTx]

I had some AFR heads with straight plugs on my gen 1 engine and had the same problem with header clearance on number 5 cylinder. I also had to dimple the header to make clearance to get the plug out. I used one of those cloth type insulating boots over the plug wire and it helped to keep the plug boot from melting.

Keep at that tune... one change at a time and you'll get there. Sounds like your making progress :thumbsup:

Are you thinking of getting a wideband AFR system for your car while your at it?

[Sieg]

Had a chance to fire it with an absolutely positively proper and documented baseline this afternoon. When the temp was nearing 160* the idle was climbing toward 2K rpm with the pri/sec transfer slots exposed .023 and idle bypass valve at 1.5 turns out. :headscratch:

I said F it and started experimenting to see what it would take to get good off-idle throttle response. First move was reduce secondary butterfly opening 1/4 turn to lower the idle (Set at 5/8 out from closed) which dropped the idle to 1,600, another 1/4 turn dropped it to 1,250, this time I knew the butterflies were an 1/8 turn from closed. :headscratch:

I was checking response in between adjustments and it was still hollow with a stumble but improving. I reduced the primary butterflies a 1/8 turn and the idle went to 1,150, then another 1/8 to 1,050 and finally the hollowness and stumble was minimize. Next was 1/4 turn in on the idle bypass valve which had little effect on idle speed, another 1/4 turn moved the idle to 950 which is about optimum for this cam.

Next was idle mixture screws, keep in mind the transfer slot exposure indicated the butterflies were not equal dimensions from passenger to driver side on primary or secondary bores. The sweet spots ended up being 1.2 to 1.4 turns out and 10.75-11" of vacuum. Throttle response was finally close!

The test drive confirmed the carb was now in the ballpark, still has a very slight stumble but I can roll a 90* residential turn in 2nd gear and not have the motor fall on it's face which tells me the idle signal strength is finally close! I'm guessing it's within a 1/16 of a turn on the butterflies and idle mixture screws. :happy23:

I also switched power valves from 6.5 hi-flow 2-port to 5.0 hi-flow 4 port and that appears to have created a slight hesitation transitioning into the secondaries that wasn't there before. I'll throw some 5.5's in and see what happens.

So much for the Holley tech telling me that the transfer slot spec on this carb was supposed to be .025". Only thing I can think of is he must have been giving specs for a 4150 without the idle bypass valve. I ended up with the the primary butterflies about one turn open which is about .010" transfer slot exposure and the secondaries are open a 1/16 of a turn so no slot exposure.

I'm guessing closing the primaries a little further and raising the idle with the idle bypass valve will strengthen the signal and get it in the sweet spot.

I know.........it would be way too easy to plug the car into a laptop and push buttons. :sieg:

But I have a 60's muscle car not a Y2K tuner car. :rules: :D

[Sieg]

I had some AFR heads with straight plugs on my gen 1 engine and had the same problem with header clearance on number 5 cylinder. I also had to dimple the header to make clearance to get the plug out. I used one of those cloth type insulating boots over the plug wire and it helped to keep the plug boot from melting.

Keep at that tune... one change at a time and you'll get there. Sounds like your making progress :thumbsup:

Are you thinking of getting a wideband AFR system for your car while your at it?
I have Moroso sleeves sitting on the workbench and a spare boot.

Yes, I'm thinking about an AFR system, but I need a job before luxury items. :D

[GregWeld]

When I owned those heads -- I whacked the 3 and 5 tubes and extended them out to the driver side about an 1" or more (can't remember the exact number)... all it cost me was a cermachrome job on the one side header.

This mod entailed a LOT of work -- and lucky for me Stans Headers is not far from me and I'm one of the two people that Stan actually likes (that's a relative term) so they were very helpful making bends etc for me.

I had to cut the tubes to free the flange - mill out the remainder of 3 and 5 from the flange without enlarging the hole... mock stuff up -- get new 3 and 5 tubes... weld it all back up and.... Well -- it was more work than it was worth but it was a challenge and I like a challenge.

There are headers made for STRAIGHT PLUG heads.... but nobody will sell you just the one side.

[Sieg]

When I owned those heads -- I whacked the 3 and 5 tubes and extended them out to the driver side about an 1" or more (can't remember the exact number)... all it cost me was a cermachrome job on the one side header.

This mod entailed a LOT of work -- and lucky for me Stans Headers is not far from me and I'm one of the two people that Stan actually likes (that's a relative term) so they were very helpful making bends etc for me.

I had to cut the tubes to free the flange - mill out the remainder of 3 and 5 from the flange without enlarging the hole... mock stuff up -- get new 3 and 5 tubes... weld it all back up and.... Well -- it was more work than it was worth but it was a challenge and I like a challenge.

There are headers made for STRAIGHT PLUG heads.... but nobody will sell you just the one side.

The steering box is one limiting factor...........
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wS8LC2Z/1/L/i-wS8LC2Z-L.jpg

The limiting factor regarding header choices was the D-port exhaust. Doug's notes for my model 368 are 32, 56, 92, 93. http://www.pertronix.com/search/dougs/notes.asp

If needed the tube can be massaged a little more. :warning:

[GregWeld]

If you look closely at the header (driver side) now mounted to the wall by the leaking BeCool radiator.... you'll see the welded #1 tube (you can make out several mods on various tubes) - which also was "moved" in order to make room for the extended 3/5 tubes... which -- since I had to cut everything out - to mill the flange for re-use... new tubes were bent and a new collector.... and well -- you get the point.




http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Shop%20Pix/file-5.jpg

[Sieg]

It appears the MSD high-temp "Race" boots won't handle as much temp as their standard grey boots. This Race boot had more clearance and less than an hour run time vs. the standard boot had 200 miles.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xFksms7/0/L/i-xFksms7-L.jpg

Massaged the tube a couple mm, cut down a Moroso sleeve and edge sealed with Permatex Ultra to control fraying, with the tight clearance slipping the sleeve over the plug first made it easy fit the boot.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7krfcrn/0/L/i-7krfcrn-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-29cxLRn/0/M/i-29cxLRn-M.jpg

I know this stuff isn't rocket science but hopefully a few may benefit from it.

[Vegas69]

Try an aluminum shield like you would see on a factory vehicle. Many used a full circumfrance shield the boot would slide into with a semi interference fit.
http://www.taylorvertex.com/Products/index.cgi/productListing?id=220066

[Sieg]

Try an aluminum shield like you would see on a factory vehicle. Many used a full circumfrance shield the boot would slide into with a semi interference fit.
http://www.taylorvertex.com/Products/index.cgi/productListing?id=220066

Thanks Todd, haven't seen those on the "open" market. :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

you should be good now that you clearanced the primary. You could put all the tricks in there but it take air flow to keep it from burning up.

Nice job on the carb. Sometime you have to thow the book out the window and go by gut feel and fact. Are you getting any idle circuit from the secondaries?

[Sieg]

you should be good now that you clearanced the primary. You could put all the tricks in there but it take air flow to keep it from burning up.

Nice job on the carb. Sometime you have to thow the book out the window and go by gut feel and fact. Are you getting any idle circuit from the secondaries?

:idea: Awesome! I can be the only guy at Lat-g with a mini-brake duct routed to the #5 primary! I'm on it! :D

Thanks - I should have tossed the rules on the carb sooner, but fell victim to trusting the tech's specification. :bang: I did email him my experience and results so hopefully it benefits others.

I do have a reasonable signal from the secondaries, now that I've found the zone I'll be able to fine tune balance front to rear and optimize signal and vacuum. Then I can get into tuning and testing the fun stuff - pump cams and squirters.

[intocarss]

:idea: Awesome! I can be the only guy at Lat-g with a mini-brake duct routed to the #5 primary! I'm on it! :D

Thanks - I should have tossed the rules on the carb sooner, but fell victim to trusting the tech's specification. :bang: I did email him my experience and results so hopefully it benefits others.

I do have a reasonable signal from the secondaries, now that I've found the zone I'll be able to fine tune balance front to rear and optimize signal and vacuum. Then I can get into tuning and testing the fun stuff - pump cams and squirters.

Wouldn't that be called a "plug duct?? :rules:

Glad you're making progress :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Wouldn't that be called a "plug duct?? :rules:

Glad you're making progress :thumbsup:
Gotcha.

Plug Duct acquired, installation should be relatively simple.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-KLvG9Lz/0/L/i-KLvG9Lz-L.jpg

:whistling:

[Sieg]

Back to business..........

I fiddled with the fuel screws and throttle positions and obtained near 12" vacuum at 1K rpm which is as good as it gets with this cam IMO.

Throttle response right off idle felt good actuating it by hand. The initial timing was 13-14* with 21* mechanical. I decided to experiment with initial timing and see how the motor would respond. I bumped it to 15-16* and immediately had a big flat spot right off idle. WTF? Dropped it to 12-13* and still had the flat spot. Put it back to 13-14* and the flat spot was still there......I managed to create a flat spot without touching the carb settings, just changing the initial advance. :headscratch:

I list timing as 12-13*, 13-14*, 15-16* because that's what it is when locked down.

I've had subtle doubts since this motor went back together...........something hasn't seemed quite right and this latest issue is supporting my suspicions.

Gear drive or distributor possibly creating issues?

[protour73]

Dammit Sieg, hate to hear this!!! I am living vicariously through your ability to be able to be out working on your car. We are getting our butts kicked by winter this week here in Chicago. :bang:

[Sieg]

Dammit Sieg, hate to hear this!!! I am living vicariously through your ability to be able to be out working on your car. We are getting our butts kicked by winter this week here in Chicago. :bang:
I'm taking a little break from it........5 hours yesterday, 6 hours today, and probably 4 hours tomorrow...........pressure-washing concrete in the rain. :woot: :woot:

[protour73]

I'm taking a little break from it........5 hours yesterday, 6 hours today, and probably 4 hours tomorrow...........pressure-washing concrete in the rain. :woot: :woot:

Probably best, or else you get wrenches stuck in the garage walls from the ole "Frustration Toss"!! LOL :warning:

[glassman]

Man carbs can be a bi?€h. Makes me want to mow lawns for a month to get efi...

[Vegas69]

Back to business..........

I fiddled with the fuel screws and throttle positions and obtained near 12" vacuum at 1K rpm which is as good as it gets with this cam IMO.

Throttle response right off idle felt good actuating it by hand. The initial timing was 13-14* with 21* mechanical. I decided to experiment with initial timing and see how the motor would respond. I bumped it to 15-16* and immediately had a big flat spot right off idle. WTF? Dropped it to 12-13* and still had the flat spot. Put it back to 13-14* and the flat spot was still there......I managed to create a flat spot without touching the carb settings, just changing the initial advance. :headscratch:

I list timing as 12-13*, 13-14*, 15-16* because that's what it is when locked down.

I've had subtle doubts since this motor went back together...........something hasn't seemed quite right and this latest issue is supporting my suspicions.

Gear drive or distributor possibly creating issues?

Did the engine temperature change? That amount of timing shouldn't make much difference to a bog. You aren't going to tune out a stumble with idle mixutre and transfer slot. It's time to start playing with accel pump cams.

[Sieg]

Did the engine temperature change? That amount of timing shouldn't make much difference to a bog. You aren't going to tune out a stumble with idle mixutre and transfer slot. It's time to start playing with accel pump cams.
Todd,

Started with engine temp at 175* it got up to 195*

The bog was instant with throttle opening and no load, and it appeared to be initiated with the timing change, the temp could be a factor but I didn't think it would cause a substantial bog.

I'll throw a different pump cam in and see how it responds.

I checked with MSD tech and they didn't think the +/- 1* timing fluctuation was abnormal.

Here's the cam specs FWIW:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-bv6pN27/0/XL/i-bv6pN27-XL.jpg

[intocarss]

When you give it gas right off idle, (bog) does it cut out or does it blubber then catch?

[Sieg]

When you give it gas right off idle, (bog) does it cut out or does it blubber then catch?Big flat spot (as I'd call it) no blubbering, then it's fine. If I rev it and don't let it come all the way down to the 1K idle, say 1500 rpm, and crack the throttle it's fine. This has all been while actuating the throttle by hand.

[Vegas69]

One degree of fluctuation isn't worth thinking about. Battery voltage or a slightly different signal to your light could easily cause the difference. You can verify the timing is reacting properly with your timing light. If it is, I'd rule it out. Especially if the drivability problem is present. A fully warmed up engine vs. colder engine absolutely will change a stumble. Everything I advise you is from experience.....

[intocarss]

Big flat spot (as I'd call it) no blubbering, then it's fine. If I rev it and don't let it come all the way down to the 1K idle, say 1500 rpm, and crack the throttle it's fine. This has all been while actuating the throttle by hand.

Then I agree with Todd's posts.

Blubbering = to much fuel

Dead spot = not enough fuel. ie squirters or accelerator pump or cam, maybe even PV . Is the accelerator pump arm gap adj properly?

You could try and push the primeary accelerator pump arm almost all the way down by hand just as you crack the throttle from idle or a split second before, which will send a bunch of fuel in. If it doesn't have a dead spot then this will tell you it's lack of fuel right at the hit. Just and old school trick. YES eng temp can effect and or make the stumble too

Have you thought about blocking off the PV's (if you have 2) jetting it up a few sizes and trying it again? I took the PV's out of mine and it runs better down low

[Sieg]

One degree of fluctuation isn't worth thinking about. Battery voltage or a slightly different signal to your light could easily cause the difference. You can verify the timing is reacting properly with your timing light. If it is, I'd rule it out. Especially if the drivability problem is present. A fully warmed up engine vs. colder engine absolutely will change a stumble. Everything I advise you is from experience.....

Then I agree with Todd's posts.

Blubbering = to much fuel

Dead spot = not enough fuel. ie squirters or accelerator pump or cam. Is the accelerator arm adj properly?

You could try and push the primary accelerator pump arm almost all the way down by hand just as you crack the throttle from idle or a split second before, which will send a bunch of fuel in. If it doesn't have a dead spot then this will tell you it's lack of fuel right at the hit. Just and old school trick. YES eng temp can effect and or make the stumble too

Thanks guys. :thumbsup:

I've made sure the thermostat has opened and it up to temp before any tuning adjustments.

I'll say it acts like a lean bog, similar to the warm up throttle response with no choke system.

I'll toss a green pump cam on and see what happens.

[Sieg]

Pink pump cam is stock..........and lean down low.

http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/PumpCamGraph.pdf

[Vegas69]

Mine came with Pink as well. It's for drag racing and absoutely horrible for throttle response. I'd jump up to orange as it delivers better volume on tip in..... I'm pretty positive that's the cam I used.

[Sieg]

Mine came with Pink as well. It's for drag racing and absoutely horrible for throttle response. I'd jump up to orange as it delivers better volume on tip in..... I'm pretty positive that's the cam I used.

Sounds like a plan. I ran the green on the previous carb and it was a big improvement over the pink.

Did you end up with matching cams on both pumps?

[Ron in SoCal]

Green is better than Pink. Got it. :hello: