Norwood

[efs69]

Great mix of stuff you have going on Scott!

[Sieg]

Sieg you are just too cool with all your tinkering. Nice work kid. Those control arms look sweet. You comin down next month?

Cool stuff going on right there. Good use of the spare time since the text train was derailed.

This is truly built not bought
Cool stuff Sieg... really like the homemade
adapters for your tools and the fact
you are the alignment shop..
Been learning how to do some of this front
end tuning myself... better than wondering
what the shop really did.. plus you can adjust
it even at the track if you want

Bob

Great mix of stuff you have going on Scott!

Thanks guys.........I have new appreciation for plumb bobs, framing squares, lasers, metric tape measures, masking tape, and fine point Sharpies...........and less appreciation of subframes.

[Sieg]

More lawn mower tech!!!!!

More M37!!!!!

[grendel]

Majority of press related tooling.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ZCPnCR2/0/X2/i-ZCPnCR2-X2.jpg







Please do yourself a favor and get rid of those cast arbor plates. I had both of mine shatter while using a finger brake on 16g steel. Not anywhere close to 20T of pressure, spread across the entire surface area.

http://www.swagoffroad.com/Arbor-Press-Plates_p_7.html

[Sieg]

Please do yourself a favor and get rid of those cast arbor plates. I had both of mine shatter while using a finger brake on 16g steel. Not anywhere close to 20T of pressure, spread across the entire surface area.

http://www.swagoffroad.com/Arbor-Press-Plates_p_7.html

Thanks, those are proper plates.

I certainly don't trust the cast plates for heavy loads, thus that steel plate on the press.

[grendel]

Thanks, those are proper plates.

I certainly don't trust the cast plates for heavy loads, thus that steel plate on the press.

I don't trust them for any load... had a buddy on Pirate4x4 take 8 stitches when they let go on his with less than 4t of pressure.

I have no affiliation with SWAG, other than he's a cool vendor with good schtuff.

Love the build.

[GrabberGT]

I'm thinking it's a '69 Torino color.



Thats not right. LOL


Why havent I subscribed to this thread yet. :lmao:

[SSLance]

Thanks guys.........I have new appreciation for plumb bobs, framing squares, lasers, metric tape measures, masking tape, and fine point Sharpies...........and less appreciation of subframes.

lol... here that...

[57hemicuda]

More M37!!!!!

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/PW/i-JvzxJgC/0/L/20150414_170121-L.jpg

You are welcome!

[Sieg]

I don't trust them for any load... had a buddy on Pirate4x4 take 8 stitches when they let go on his with less than 4t of pressure.

I have no affiliation with SWAG, other than he's a cool vendor with good schtuff.

Love the build.

Thanks.

Thats not right. LOL


Why havent I subscribed to this thread yet. :lmao:
Not right? Oh hell yes it is! :unibrow:

lol... here that...
Next time I see him I'm slapping him around a little just for planting the seed. :lol:



You are welcome!
Thank you Sir! :thumbsup:


Where am I at 5:30 this morning...............I'm crawling around under this frameless POS doing floor exercises...............:bang:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vfpw4fk/0/XL/i-vfpw4fk-XL.jpg

:drowninga:

[57hemicuda]

Scott,
I find it easier to pull a chalk line front to back down both sides just below the pinch welds (If you are going to be a while, use tape). Along the whole length of the car, making sure they are parallel with one another. Then two in the opposite direction somewhere near the wheel mounting surfaces. Making sure to X them out to be sure they are square.

Once you have made this perfectly square box, and the car is solidly mounted and level, pinch welds in perfect line with your tape. All you need is 4 plumb bobs, a tape measure, digital level, and a patient wife or buddy to hold the other side of the tape.

You can accurately measure wheelbase (or altered wheelbase in so many cases), track squareness, camber, caster, pretty much anything you would need to know.

[SSLance]

How many times have you been told this so far Sieg?


"Something seems off with X measurement, can you recheck it?"


:bang:


Thing is, he was right every time...something was wrong with MY measuring... :lol:

[glassman]

New digital camber/caster gauge and homemade adapter.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WbBZctK/0/X2/i-WbBZctK-X2.jpg

Isn't Magnus Walker that bada$$ 911 guru/tuner? If so, i DIG his work...

[57hemicuda]

How many times have you been told this so far Sieg? lol:

I know Scott knows what he is doing, I've just never been able to do any reliable measurements using centerline. Unless a car was set up for centerline measuring, like cup cars are, I find it extremely hard to get repeatable numbers. That might just be me.

[Sieg]

I know Scott knows what he is doing

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I've just never been able to do any reliable measurements using centerline. Unless a car was set up for centerline measuring, like cup cars are, I find it extremely hard to get repeatable numbers. That might just be me.
Simply stated..........I'm hunting and picking my way around the underside of the car getting familiar with it and try to figure out what is what. When both ends are disconnected and the center section is a crudely stamped piece of sheetmetal it's not easy to establish a reasonable baseline.

I attempted to establish center via the rear subframe locating holes and I'm now trying to establish outer lines to reference the hubs/wheel mounting surfaces. The centerline was to give a reference to 'square' for all other measurements.

I'm beginning to understand the value of having a full framed vehicle. If I had the equipment to create a digital horizontal and vertical halo around the car it would be somewhat simple.

[57hemicuda]

That is why I stressed using the pinch welds, on a subframe car the pinch welds are the only true constant. The rest of the car (subframe, rear, etc., etc.) can be way off. If referencing suspension off of a subframe that is crooked in the car your wasting your time.

Its easy as falling off a log. Level the car on stands, 4 plumb bobs vise gripped to the pinch welds, mark floor with tape, making sure the tape is square, and measure away.

[Greg from Aus]

Come on Mate, get this measuring stuff all sorted, with lots of pictures as I have to start mine and I'm :confused18: :confused18: :confused18:

[Sieg]

That is why I stressed using the pinch welds, on a subframe car the pinch welds are the only true constant. The rest of the car (subframe, rear, etc., etc.) can be way off. If referencing suspension off of a subframe that is crooked in the car your wasting your time.

Its easy as falling off a log. Level the car on stands, 4 plumb bobs vise gripped to the pinch welds, mark floor with tape, making sure the tape is square, and measure away.

I'm getting there today buddy! All the references I have created are good to verify square once true square is established.

Those pinch welds on the rocker being the one source of true square exemplifies how crude these cars really are.

4 plumb bobs and 4 vice grips..........you're one rich sob. Harbor freight micro bar clamps are $.99.........3 more plumb bobs is an issue for those of use in the pro-tinkering class! :lol:

[Sieg]

Isn't Magnus Walker that bada$$ 911 guru/tuner? If so, i DIG his work...

Magnus is a great guy, I've talked with him on multiple occasions at SEMA. He's a great example of don't judge a book by the cover.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-GQ8vCqZ/0/XL/i-GQ8vCqZ-XL.jpg

[Sieg]

Come on Mate, get this measuring stuff all sorted, with lots of pictures as I have to start mine and I'm :confused18: :confused18: :confused18:

:snapout:

It's an education mate..........in a somewhat masochistic way.......similar to croc wrestling I guess. :sieg:

Back to the garage! :captain1:

[Sieg]

Come on Mate, get this measuring stuff all sorted, with lots of pictures as I have to start mine and I'm :confused18: :confused18: :confused18:

Pictures? You want pictures? Here ya go Mate:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vPMBHwx/0/XL/i-vPMBHwx-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-QjNFTKk/0/XL/i-QjNFTKk-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fDjjLvF/1/XL/i-fDjjLvF-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-nCQdjj7/0/XL/i-nCQdjj7-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-mpHgdNs/0/XL/i-mpHgdNs-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tc87pkD/0/XL/i-tc87pkD-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-QPNxccn/1/XL/i-QPNxccn-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-bHC8Sgg/0/XL/i-bHC8Sgg-XL.jpg

[Sieg]

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5hmx5X4/0/XL/i-5hmx5X4-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WJFtJxW/0/XL/i-WJFtJxW-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-3HtcfLM/0/XL/i-3HtcfLM-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Bxd5JbS/0/XL/i-Bxd5JbS-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-bXDDzMr/0/XL/i-bXDDzMr-XL.jpg

Tedious work is an understatement. My core strength/tone has improved as this has basically been 4+ day palates workout.

Not having a means to accurately replicate the acquired data points in the future is frustrating. Wishing I had copied Stielow's hitch ball jackstands and locating pockets as those would give you a chance of accurately duplicating data. Though without a surface plate the measurements are still only approximates.

The upside is the measuring techniques I've learned will apply to future fabrication projects.

To summarize: I'd suggest slamming your appendages in the shower door until you come to your senses, then go find a shop in your region similar to BMR and throw your wallet at them. :lol:

[Evan Iroc-Z]

Two observations,

1. You have nice handwriting. I can't even read my own sometimes.
2. You forgot to carry the 5.

:lol:

[SSLance]

To summarize: I'd suggest slamming your appendages in the shower door until you come to your senses, then go find a shop in your region similar to BMR and throw your wallet at them. :lol:


:lmao:


You even resorted to using the metric system... lol...

Been there, done that bro...feel your pain. Trust me though, it's worth it once the magic is inserted.

[SSLance]

And is that hardwood oak floor in the garage, or did you move Norwood into the living room?

:D

[rickpaw]

Sieg's garage is cleaner than my living room.

[Payton King]

Although a cool project, may have been eaiser to take it to a shop with a 4 wheel alignment machine, have a beer and watch them work. LOL

[57hemicuda]

I've probably back halved 30 cars, and I'm lost!! LOL

[SSLance]

I was under the impression that the reason most of you owned 40+ year old cars...was so that you didn't have to invest in metric tools...

Yet here Sieg is using metric measurements to blueprint the suspension pickup points on a 46 year old car. :confused59:

[Sieg]

And is that hardwood oak floor in the garage, or did you move Norwood into the living room?

:D
That's loose-lay fiberglass stabilized vinyl flooring........comfort baby!

Sieg's garage is cleaner than my living room.
It's cleaner because it's had a 170 lb. cotton covered mop polishing it for 4+ days!

Although a cool project, may have been eaiser to take it to a shop with a 4 wheel alignment machine, have a beer and watch them work. LOL
..........and you could have bought a Cup Car ya know. :action-smiley-027:

I've probably back halved 30 cars, and I'm lost!! LOL
:sieg: :sieg: :sieg: :sieg:
I learn best by my mistakes. Out of who knows how many measurements.......I actually took 4 or 5 that made me excited.

I was under the impression that the reason most of you owned 40+ year old cars...was so that you didn't have to invest in metric tools...

Yet here Sieg is using metric measurements to blueprint the suspension pickup points on a 46 year old car. :confused59:

Fractions are just plain S T U P I D!!!

[57hemicuda]

M&M's are only good out of a bag, plain or peanut. Freakin communist.

[SSLance]

Fractions are just plain S T U P I D!!!




The guy that was helping me is a machinist, he thinks in thousands of inches...

You should have seen him shaking his head at me trying to subtract 5/32nds from 17/32nds... lol... :D

[Sieg]

M&M's are only good out of a bag, plain or peanut. Freakin communist.

鄉下人!

[intocarss]

The guy that was helping me is a machinist, he thinks in thousands of inches...

You should have seen him shaking his head at me trying to subtract 5/32nds from 17/32nds... lol... :D I know the feeling.. You ever work on a dirt race car with an areospace engineer :badidea: :lostmarbles:

I know why UroSieg uses mm...He's used to all his bikes

[Sieg]

The guy that was helping me is a machinist, he thinks in thousands of inches...

You should have seen him shaking his head at me trying to subtract 5/32nds from 17/32nds... lol... :D

Exactly!

1/10ths, 1/100ths, 1/1000ths.........what's that remind you of? :sieg:

[glassman]

Exactly!

1/10ths, 1/100ths, 1/1000ths.........what's that remind you of? :sieg:

I wish my dumb ole trade would switch to cm/mm. I have employee's who still have to count the digits LOL....

"As society regress's forward...."

[Sieg]

I wish my dumb ole trade would switch to cm/mm. I have employee's who still have to count the digits LOL....

"As society regress' forward...."

In my flooring business I was glad to have inches, feet, and yards because once the carpet industry wised up to the fact that hardwood and ceramic tile competitors were killing them with price perception and switched to selling carpet by the square foot vs square yard the playing field was leveled........but it took a while for the good old industry boys to accept the paradigm shift. The consumer perceived hardwood at $6 sq. ft. as a much better 'value' than carpet at $24 sq. yd when it was actually $54 sq. yd. Accountants, teachers, university professors, bankers amazingly all fell into that trap.

In the metric system they are somewhat forced to sell by square meter as square centimeters is their next option.

Jer Dawg was right about the bikes as my first bike in '72 was metric as were the other 20+ that followed........

[Sieg]

Took a break from chassis/suspension grind yesterday afternoon to remind myself how lucky I was not to have been a framer my entire life.........

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hH5HXZG/0/X2/i-hH5HXZG-X2.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-78k2qc2/0/X2/i-78k2qc2-X2.jpg

Material list:
12 - 96" kiln dried 2x4's
2 lbs 2.5" screws (128 screws)
Cost $40

Cut list:
24 - 14"
40 - 17.5"

Tool List:
Chop saw
Drill driver
Framers square
Small mallet (for tweaking alignment)

Finished height: 267.5 mm or for 57hemicuda 10-33/64" or 10.5315" :D

Time allotment: Approximately 4-5 uninterrupted hours.

My plan for turn plates is to use flexible cutting boards like these http://www.amazon.com/Clear-Flexible-Plastic-Cutting-Board/dp/B00BOUUX6G/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1429451028&sr=8-13&keywords=flexible+cutting+boards+for+kitchen and lubricate them with Crisco for dishwasher cleanup.

[SSLance]

Nicely done! I used a nail gun and 2.5" nails to put mine together, went much quicker than with screws.

You'll love those... I use mine all of the time.

[Sieg]

Look DG no jackstands! :unibrow:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CJHFdmx/0/XL/i-CJHFdmx-XL.jpg

Front suspension is mostly reassembled and the car is sitting at ride height. I swapped out my front springs with some Hotchkis springs I had which should be slightly stiffer. The Hotchkis springs overall length was 1" shorter but they had finished ends and my old springs had one unfinished and one 'semi' finished end.

I was guessing the finished ends and stiffer rate wouldn't compress as much but the only way to find out was put it together and set it down. As it worked out it's only 1/8" lower than the old springs.

Now the issues.......previously I was not running lower bump stops and never have experienced harsh bottoming or coil bind. I installed some 1-5/8" cone bump stops on the lower arms and that leaves 1/2" to 5/8" free space between the bump stops and the frame stops.........not good, nor is the anti-roll bar relationship to the lower arm. That bar bushing grease zerk has 1" clearance from the lower arm......I'm thinking grease it remove the zerk and plug it just to be safe.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-t9sd2jB/0/XL/i-t9sd2jB-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-w5KpVct/0/X2/i-w5KpVct-X2.jpg

One solution to gaining travel/clearance may be these Global West cast aluminum .375" spacers, does anyone have experience with them?
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/gls-1102_w.jpg

Global West says 1 at the spring equals 2 at the body, though with the 3/8" spacer they spec 5/8" lift, not 3/4".

Regarding stance - 5/8" lift up front would be the max without altering the rear ride height. Fender openings front to rear would be 24.5" and 24.75" if those spacers deliver as stated.

Another gain could be cutting the bump stops or replacing with shorter style. The OEM lobe/triangle stops look like they may provide more initial travel. Prothane offers triangular stops in two heights 1-1/8" & 1-1/2" and Energy offers a 1-3/8".

I'm leaning towards the spacers and 1-1/8" stops at this point.

Any experience input would be greatly appreciated! :thumbsup:

[57hemicuda]

Scott, it sounds like the geometry is altered in a bad way to achieve the desired ride height. Wow, I've never heard of that happening before. LOL

If it were me, I'd put big block springs in the car to get the correct geometry, and suspension travel. Then run drop spindles to achieve the ride height your looking for. That is what I had to do on my AMX chassis. Even with an aftermarket frame stub. Geometry and travel, trump everything else.

[SSLance]

I was going to go kind of the same route, on my car I spent countless hours cycling the front suspension with the springs removed trying to gain as much travel as I could. The more it traveled, the more stuff hit. Once I had everything clearanced and all of the travel I could get, I then measured for shock length and calculated which springs to use.

I started with about a half inch between my bump stops and the frame as well, I now have almost 2" of bump travel up front and the car only sits about a half inch higher at ride height than before.

[GregWeld]

Just ditch the wubba stops.... problem solved.


The thing to have done was to run the suspension/travel with wheel/tire mounted -- sans spring - and see what clearance issues you'd have - and then weld a stop where it needed to be for "protection" purposes.... or find/modify a wubba stop to work.


So now you can disassemble the suspension on one side and do that.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Sieg]

Scott, it sounds like the geometry is altered in a bad way to achieve the desired ride height. Wow, I've never heard of that happening before. LOL

If it were me, I'd put big block springs in the car to get the correct geometry, and suspension travel. Then run drop spindles to achieve the ride height your looking for. That is what I had to do on my AMX chassis. Even with an aftermarket frame stub. Geometry and travel, trump everything else.
You mean mine isn't the first one? :ohsnap:

Agreed on longer springs and drop spindles as the proper cure. With the current pro-tinkering budget altered wubba stops and spacers will probably prevail.......technically it 'should' will be an 'improvement' from where it was.

I was going to go kind of the same route, on my car I spent countless hours cycling the front suspension with the springs removed trying to gain as much travel as I could. The more it traveled, the more stuff hit. Once I had everything clearanced and all of the travel I could get, I then measured for shock length and calculated which springs to use.

I started with about a half inch between my bump stops and the frame as well, I now have almost 2" of bump travel up front and the car only sits about a half inch higher at ride height than before.

2" eh............Bragger! :D

Just ditch the wubba stops.... problem solved.

The thing to have done was to run the suspension/travel with wheel/tire mounted -- sans spring - and see what clearance issues you'd have - and then weld a stop where it needed to be for "protection" purposes.... or find/modify a wubba stop to work.

So now you can disassemble the suspension on one side and do that.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I did cycle it w/o springs, but with the stops. I optimistically put it back together to know where everything sits at ride height knowing it would most likely be disassembled.........again.

I'll have disassembly and assembly of these archaic front ends down pat when it's all said and done........whoopie.

I will say that using the flexible cutting boards for turn plates was really slick, pun intended. Though I did need one last night for dicing asparagus. :(

[Panteracer]

Reminds me of the 800lb springs I had put on
the Firebird years ago... when I got it back from
the suspension guy ( a Norcal Shelby Otec guy) I
told him it sat too high.. he said the geometry was
perfect and go run it to see how it does... next event
I won and the car was on rails..

I went back and said it ran great but looks like crap
he said Dropped spindles would fix it... no one made
them at that time so I left it... now we have new arms, spindles,coilovers,
taller ball joints, different size bump stops,etc, etc.. where does it stop

Bob

[57hemicuda]

Just so you know we're all white men Lance. Mine has 3" of compression, and 2" of rebound.

[glassman]

On my last set-up, i left the bump stops but cut them down to 3/4 to 1" at LCA (i had cut the snot outa my hotchkis springs to get desired ride height) once cut, no bump (well, when i wasn't dukes of hazzard'in it), i tend to drive the car like my Katoom, perhaps i should stop doing that.....

[Vegas69]

Judging by your control arms and bump stops, you have way more rebound than compresson available in your suspension. Is your shock in the same place in the stroke? Let's pretend you have 1.5 inches of compression left at the wheel. That will likely result in half that at the grease zerk?

Taking some measurements and then running the suspension through its range without the springs will allow you to dial it all in. Raising the car will need to happen either way if you want to be anywhere close to your shock sweet spot and greatest handling capabilities.

This is why people buy subframes. :sarcasm_smiley:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

As long as you don't drop it too fast off the floor jack....I don't see any issues.

[Sieg]

Judging by your control arms and bump stops, you have way more rebound than compression available in your suspension. Is your shock in the same place in the stroke? Let's pretend you have 1.5 inches of compression left at the wheel. That will likely result in half that at the grease zerk?

Taking some measurements and then running the suspension through its range without the springs will allow you to dial it all in. Raising the car will need to happen either way if you want to be anywhere close to your shock sweet spot and greatest handling capabilities.
Now that I've removed MY speculation by putting it on it's own weight and seen the clearance issues first hand, the spring spacers and shorter bump stops are in transit. That's certainly not going to make it ideal but it may be an improvement from the original setup and where it sits currently. Far from ideal, but with the firmer springs and spacers it could deliver twice the compression travel of the original setup and be in the softer valving range of the shock depending on how the Koni's stacks are setup. Won't know until it's on the ground and driven a bit......hopefully the springs don't dramatically settle into the pockets even though I've tried to put them in their 'sweet' spot.



This is why people buy subframes. :sarcasm_smiley:
.......and adjustable coil overs
.......or C5 Z06's
.......or Miata's in my situation. :D

[Sieg]

As long as you don't drop it too fast off the floor jack....I don't see any issues.

:twak: :thankyou:

[GregWeld]

.......or C5 Z06's
.......or Miata's in my situation. :D



I bought an entire car (Hobaugh's Miata) for HALF what a DSE sub costs... and if it gets damaged at a non insured track event (many of you readers fail to consider that!) I could just cover it with dirt and leave it where it wrecked.

[Sieg]

I could just cover it with dirt and leave it where it wrecked.
My CPA has run his Boxster at PIR and The Ridge and really enjoys it. I asked him if he was insuring it at track days and he said insurance is available but hasn't. I told him about your Miata purchase and this exact quote which created brief laughter followed by a moment of silence when the logic and reality hit him. :D

[SSLance]

I've ran both ways, with and without track insurance.

At least around here, the clinker seems to be timing and scoring device included or no.

No transponder = insurance available, event with transponder = no insurance available.

[Sieg]

Modern logistics amazes me......ordered the spacers and stops from Summit yesterday at 1:35 pm and they're delivered to my door this morning at 8:35 am via standard shipping.

[Panteracer]

I checked into insurance for the Track and Dot road race tires
and running in the Race group will not allow you to have the
insurance... Just had the Pantera appraised and my appraiser
has an insurance guy who said once it is loaded off the trailer
at the track you are on your own... another buddy said you
can get it for the Paddock.. big deal

I often think of this when the car is buried into a turn with a
guy in front of me hoping all goes well on the exit... or I could
just take it to a show and sit around and not run the car... fat chance

Bob-Texas bound to run the high banks

[Flash68]

Look DG no jackstands! :unibrow:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CJHFdmx/0/XL/i-CJHFdmx-XL.jpg



Those do not look to be DSE spec... :rules:

[Sieg]

Since my parts arrived early yesterday and I had a window of opportunity I pulled the springs and did some experimenting and altering.

Rubber bump stops with the suspension fully compressed against the corner weight of the car. The rubber stops free length is 1.5" and it compressed .5".
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-kQxbV6T/0/XL/i-kQxbV6T-XL.jpg

Same scenario as above with 1.25" poly sump stop in place. So it appears to have gained .25" of free travel and similar compressed travel, though beyond sitting on it's own weight the poly should be firmer than the rubber but the zerk is still in jeopardy in a G-out.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-sMkSDDj/0/XL/i-sMkSDDj-XL.jpg

Hotchkis bar link installed at supplied length (1-5/8" spacer) in compression.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-MZmKxW9/0/XL/i-MZmKxW9-XL.jpg

Same scenario with 1" spacer.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-gsQKs76/0/XL/i-gsQKs76-XL.jpg

Same scenario with .75" spacer.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-3f5sH9T/0/XL/i-3f5sH9T-XL.jpg

Suspension in full drop with bar link adjusted finger tight which leaves the bar holding the suspension approx 1" short of full drop.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DfBQzBz/0/XL/i-DfBQzBz-XL.jpg

Sitting at estimated ride height.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-rmd2r8h/0/XL/i-rmd2r8h-XL.jpg

Global West cast aluminum 3/8" spacers.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-97386Cr/0/XL/i-97386Cr-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FPZ6RfK/0/XL/i-FPZ6RfK-XL.jpg

Sitting at ride height with spacers installed.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PPH7HfL/0/XL/i-PPH7HfL-XL.jpg

It went from .5" free travel to 1.25 free travel with spacers and poly bump stops. Not ideal but a big percentage gain. Fender height went from 23-7/8" to 24-5/8".

Hopefully I'll be able to button up all the loose ends tomorrow, get it on the ground and set the caster/camber/toe and take it for a short test drive, then recheck dimensions and safety inspect before taking it on a real shakedown drive weather permitting.

[GregWeld]

You can always remove the zirc....


Stay away from railroad tracks....


Use 650# springs so it rides like a hay wagon....


Use a shorter shock so the shock becomes the stop (and then ruins the shock)....


Install shock bump stocks (a collar)...


Copy PK - DG - RD and leave in on the jack stands forever...

[Roberts68]

Hey Sieg, how about relocate the zirc to be horizontal pointing forward? Weld that hole shut and drill/tap a new one.

You might have to drill a pass through in your urethane and rtv the existing passageway.

I have added zircs to non zirced bushings in a similar fashion, scoring my own passageways with a dremel etc...

[SSLance]

I've been told grease really isn't that necessary on sway bar bushings anyway...kind of depends on the material of the bushing I guess.

I'm more worried about the sway bar end link bending under the bind created at full droop with the short spacer in it...

I like what you are going through with the testing though, keep up the good work.

[Sieg]

You can always remove the zirc....


Stay away from railroad tracks....


Use 650# springs so it rides like a hay wagon....


Use a shorter shock so the shock becomes the stop (and then ruins the shock)....


Install shock bump stocks (a collar)...


Copy PK - DG - RD and leave in on the jack stands forever...

Hey Sieg, how about relocate the zirc to be horizontal pointing forward? Weld that hole shut and drill/tap a new one.

You might have to drill a pass through in your urethane and rtv the existing passageway.

I have added zircs to non zirced bushings in a similar fashion, scoring my own passageways with a dremel etc...

I've been told grease really isn't that necessary on sway bar bushings anyway...kind of depends on the material of the bushing I guess.

I'm more worried about the sway bar end link bending under the bind created at full droop with the short spacer in it...

I like what you are going through with the testing though, keep up the good work.

The zerk will be used then replace with a cap screw. The car doesn't see a lot of miles and the urethane bushings shouldn't require frequent service.

The railroad tracks in Oregon aren't a problem.......it's the wagon tracks that'll kill you.

I believe the Hotchkis springs are 600# so it should be real plush. :D

The Koni's up front survived the previous setup without puking so they should survive this one.

I'll probably split the difference on the spacer and cut the Hotchkis spacers to 7/8" , the link bolt is just grade 8 $3.99 a lb. stuff at the local Wilco farm store.

[Payton King]

I think you will be suprised by the ride. Where your springs are located in relation to the LCA piviot, there is a lot of mechanical advantage being applied. You will be fine

I take offense to the jack stand comment GW. I am not using jack stands...2x3 welded directly to the frame. I like more permanent solutions for the long term.

[Roberts68]

The railroad tracks in Oregon aren't a problem.......it's the wagon tracks that'll kill you.

Your comment of the "wagon tracks" reminds me of the wheel ruts in the blacktop roads up north. Hwy 38 North of Grand Rapids MN on the way to Big Fork is a beautiful windy piece with lots of elevation change... but sees lots of heavy trucks particularly logging rigs.

In about '95 I smacked my finned cast aluminum "deep" TCI th350 pan and header collectors on the center of my lane because the wheel ruts were so deep going through a low area between two hills. It blew my vacuum modulator hose off and the thing would not shift below about 6500 rpm without it. It isn't easy to bribe a kid at a gas station to let you use a lift, but it can be done.

[Sieg]

Bar links installed w/ 7/8" spacers. LCA bump stops narrowed due to spring interference. Shocks installed. Chased camber/caster settings most of the day and finally got it in the zone. Thankfully I installed the offset UCA cross shafts because I had to flip the right side to obtain balanced settings.

Preliminary settings:
Left Cam/Cas -.6 / 5.6
Right Cam/Cas -.7 / 5.4

I plan on setting the toe at 1/16" total for a starting point.

Once it's on the ground and driven a bit so it settles in I'd like to get Cam/Cas Left -.5 / 5.0 and Right at .6 / 5.5.

My previous setup wouldn't allow caster above 4.0 without at least -1.0+ camber, so assuming my work is correct I'm somewhat satisfied...........but how it drives is the critical factor.

[SSLance]

It should be a noticeable improvement!!

Isn't it crazy how just a small shim on a control arm mount can change both the camber and caster so much? Sure makes one appreciate the $$$ hunter alignment machines that tells the operator exactly how much of a shim to put where to get to the desired setting on the first try huh? :D

[GregWeld]

Remember that caster is really only helping you for "straight line" driving / tracking. The factory setting on a manual steer '55 Chevy was 0 caster... in an effort to help low speed steering (that and the huge steering wheel). Once you go to power steering then the caster can start rising. I think most newer cars are running 5*

The one thing I hate the most in a car is bump steer.... When watching track videos -- I see a lot of it in a lot of cars. I fail to understand someone that would try to dial in their "track car" and yet tolerate a bunch of bump steer. Now that I've mentioned it -- watch for it when you're watching someones track video.

[Sieg]

Remember that caster is really only helping you for "straight line" driving / tracking. The factory setting on a manual steer '55 Chevy was 0 caster... in an effort to help low speed steering (that and the huge steering wheel). Once you go to power steering then the caster can start rising. I think most newer cars are running 5*

The one thing I hate the most in a car is bump steer.... When watching track videos -- I see a lot of it in a lot of cars. I fail to understand someone that would try to dial in their "track car" and yet tolerate a bunch of bump steer. Now that I've mentioned it -- watch for it when you're watching someones track video.

Thus the extra .5* on the right to compensate for road crown. :thumbsup:

I had the left side at 6.6* but the right wasn't coming in........once it's settled I'll get serious with the settings.

I installed +.5" tie rod ends to hopefully help with bump steer, I don't have a bump steer gauge and didn't have enough room in front of the car on the stands to do the laser plotting trick.

At ride height the steering arms 'appear' to be on a good plain.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-MjNWd6M/0/L/i-MjNWd6M-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-GZ7C8hQ/0/L/i-GZ7C8hQ-L.jpg

After this mornings BBall games I'll get the toe set.

[Sieg]

Copy PK - DG - RD and leave in on the jack stands forever...

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wmBFFgR/1/XL/i-wmBFFgR-XL.jpg

:trophy-1302:

:popcorn2:

:whistling:

:mock:

:peepwall:

[GregWeld]

What you'll notice the most is all the new "wubba" in the suspension -- not your settings. It will feel like a new car up front. Not like a new car - just a new car compared to the old factory crap. It's good work and will be noticeable and you'll like it.

[GregWeld]

I've been told grease really isn't that necessary on sway bar bushings anyway...kind of depends on the material of the bushing I guess.

I'm more worried about the sway bar end link bending under the bind created at full droop with the short spacer in it...

I like what you are going through with the testing though, keep up the good work.



It just needs enough to not squeak....especially when you go urethane.

[Sieg]

It's a driver! :excited:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-q2FRRWV/0/XL/i-q2FRRWV-XL.jpg

Stance is close with a full tank.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FcwZDt6/0/L/i-FcwZDt6-L.jpg

With the toe set at a 1/16" in it drives exceptional. Turn-in and mid-corner correction response is so much better I feel like I cheated somebody. :unibrow:

[57hemicuda]

Awesome Scott, the first to leave the nest of the jack stand army. Has to be liberating, and it make feel far superior then, "you know" the rest of the army.

[GregWeld]

Awesome Scott, the first to leave the nest of the jack stand army. Has to be liberating, and it make feel far superior then, "you know" the rest of the army.



I think Scotty has figured out there are not little elves coming out at night to build your car while you sleep.... In other words.... You actually have to do something - or as I say in my little shop "PICK UP A TOOL!". LOL

[Sieg]

Awesome Scott, the first to leave the nest of the jack stand army. Has to be liberating, and it make feel far superior then, "you know" the rest of the army.
Thanks RS.

Preferred use of jack stands:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DTnGMTj/0/XL/i-DTnGMTj-XL.jpg

[GregWeld]

YaBut <a type of fish> Did ya use the new toe boards??

[Sieg]

I think Scotty has figured out there are not little elves coming out at night to build your car while you sleep.... In other words.... You actually have to do something - or as I say in my little shop "PICK UP A TOOL!". LOL

Thus why I'm under the car again this morning before 7 a.m. correcting steering wheel alignment. :rules:

DG's probably still drooling on his pillow, RD's a least shoveling stalls or something of similar productivity, and PK's probably on a ladder washing his truck. :D

[Sieg]

YaBut <a type of fish> Did ya use the new toe boards??

Worked like champs. 1/16" (.0625") toe in vs the previous settings were .04" L and .05" R.

Car doesn't seem to dart around as much but it could be due to the new UCA/LCA bushings.

[Sieg]

Steering wheel alignment was off after the new parts installation. The range of adjustment (lack of) in the tie rod ends was an issue. I couldn't shorten the left arm enough to get the steering wheel square. After disassembly this morning it appears the threaded section of the inner rod end could have been cut further to eliminate the issue. I'm guessing I need to gain about 4-5 mm of adjustment

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-V8PGJWR/0/XL/i-V8PGJWR-XL.jpg

Since I don't have a left hand thread 5/8" die laying around, it appears there are 2 options. Grind down both jamb nuts from .380" (9.6 mm) to .202" or shorten the nicely finished billet sleeve, the latter being the easiest and not compromising nearly 50% of the threaded surface.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-k3SzN8v/0/XL/i-k3SzN8v-XL.jpg

Suggestions before I hack them up?

[Vegas69]

When you installed the tie rod ends and sleeves, did you count the turns on the sleeves and ends to makes sure both sides are equal? Then with the steering wheel centered, you would adjust both sides back and forth to get close on your alignment. Now you can fine tune.

[Sieg]

When you installed the tie rod ends and sleeves, did you count the turns on the sleeves and ends to makes sure both sides are equal? Then with the steering wheel centered, you would adjust both sides back and forth to get close on your alignment. Now you can fine tune.
There was maybe 1 thread of engagement difference. I'm thinking the lowered springs and taller tie rod ends created the issue.

I had it all reset and ready to go for the 'final' test drive just when the rain set in.......Oregon, it's so beautiful this time of year. :D

[Sieg]

Tie rod sleeve update: I ground 2mm off each end of the left sleeve which almost squared the wheel up. :bang: I need to take another mm off each end.

Regarding the grease zerk on the bar mount, I took two old zerks and ground the threaded end to remove the ball and spring, then ground the nipple down and JB Welded them. After a couple hundred miles of back road testing no contact.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-VRG8XGx/0/XL/i-VRG8XGx-XL.jpg

Overall the modifications made a big improvement in the handling, the Hotchkis springs and hollow bar feel great, same for my initial alignment. Car tracks better, turn-in is solid, mid-corner input precise, and I haven't incurred a bottoming incident yet. Under hard braking with the new bushings the car is much more stable as well. All the work was well worth it IMO.

The wife wanted to go for a Mother's Day morning road trip so we ran up the McKenzie River valley about 35 miles on secondary roads to a small cafe hoping to grab breakfast.........place was slammed, so naturally with a hungry wife on Mother's Day I had to pick up the pace on the return trip. LOL

Took a side trip up what used to be my old driveway back in '93-'94 which was also the place I proposed to her.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-VbL2JG3/0/XL/i-VbL2JG3-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-KxPkzkj/0/X2/i-KxPkzkj-X2.jpg

Regarding local roads that start 5 minutes from the house........I'm pretty spoiled.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-VFTWcxh/0/X2/i-VFTWcxh-X2.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-q2FRRWV/0/XL/i-q2FRRWV-XL.jpg

[CURVES]

Nice work as always...

But I can't get that damn video to work. :slingshot:

[GregWeld]

Wait! On Mothers Day you made HER get out and take the photo?!?!?!






Nice work. Literally.

[Flash68]

Nice roads. You must get it up to, what, 30-35 mph? :headspin:

[GregWeld]

Nice roads. You must get it up to, what, 30-35 mph? :headspin:



Road speed signs are THE MAXIMUM speeds for those roads... So he didn't necessarily have to get up to the posted MAX...

[Sieg]

Nice work as always...

But I can't get that damn video to work. :slingshot:

Thanks.

LOL :flashie:

I'm going to produce a short edited video of my favorite roads this summer of those........promise. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Nice roads. You must get it up to, what, 30-35 mph? :headspin:

.......and what speed have you had you car up to lately? :action-smiley-027:

[Sieg]

Road speed signs are THE MAXIMUM speeds for those roads... So he didn't necessarily have to get up to the posted MAX...
It's getting G-Zone, works for me. :unibrow:

You should have seen the look on the old female joggers face yesterday morning......she was trotting against traffic on the inside of a tight posted 30 mph right-hander that was somewhat obscured by the spring roadside bloom and I was pushing it a little.....like x2 but in forth gear to keep db's respectable of course :confused59: That's when I realized and appreciated how good the steering response is now mid-corner. :rules:

All the wife said was whoa sh*t! :D

[Flash68]

.......and what speed have you had you car up to lately? :action-smiley-027:

however fast the truck & trailer goes to move it from place to place. :catfight:

[Sieg]

Couple new additions to Norwood's rear. After a twenty year relationship with Monroe, Norwood is sporting these slick Ridetech HQ pogo sticks.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2C34Trf/0/X2/i-2C34Trf-X2.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-f9s6jwm/0/XL/i-f9s6jwm-XL.jpg

After testing in defense of Monroe they were not horrible, but they're certainly not Ridetech HQ's. The Monroe's may find their way on my utility trailer.......just because. :D

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ZLXWDkD/0/XL/i-ZLXWDkD-XL.jpg

For my initial Ridetech HQ testing, I set the rebound at 13 clicks out from full firm. (Total range of adjustment is 27 clicks) I went and drove my favorite test road out and back which has some fast sweepers and good 30 mph esses, some of which have upsetting irregularities in the transition which is perfect for testing valving. Set in the middle the shock were respectable and a notable improvement.

The next test was the same road with the shocks on full soft, or fastest response. While still an improvement over the Monroes, this setting made the chassis feel somewhat busy or twitchie.

The next test was the same road with the shocks set on full firm, or slowest response. This felt better than expected though it wasn't letting the spring rebound quite fast enough for the road.

My initial guess after running in the middle of the range was I'd end up toward the softer side of middle, after experiencing what the extreme's are I'm guessing the opposite or 7-9 clicks out from full firm for my roads and input preferences.

The Ridetech shock and mounting hardware is top shelf material quality. I'm very please with the HQ's finish quality and performance, especially for the price point!

Between my off-road and road bikes I've had some nice shocks, Ohlin, WP, and Penske 3-way adjustables. In respect to product build/finish quality the HQ's are on par with what I consider some of the best. :thumbsup:

[Spiffav8]

Car's made some big improvements recently. Glad to see you enjoying it so much!

:captain:

[Sieg]

Car's made some big improvements recently. Glad to see you enjoying it so much!

:captain:

Thanks Curtis, the car's actually a respectable driver finally. With the exception of a non-baffled oil pan I'd feel comfortable running recreational laps on a road course with it now.

I've also been working on fine tuning the Ultra XP carb, pulled #2 plug yesterday and it looks like I'm gaining on it.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Th3xgtf/0/XL/i-Th3xgtf-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-r2VgJhG/0/XL/i-r2VgJhG-XL.jpg

[glassman]

Thanx for the explanation of the shocks, nice upgrade. I've not had a good understanding on how shocks work (fluid, valve, compression is all i can figure out). And i've never been able to nail it on an off road bike, having had WP and Ohlin's, its been good/ perhaps great at times, but getting it tuned, ugh!

So, the "full firm=slowest response" was/is kinda like a :idea: :idea: , guess would be the least amount of fluid traveling through the valve, hence the "firmest/roughest" ride. Simple, but not.

Congrats on having the dialed for summer, old paint job or not, it looks fan-friggentastic....

btw, sold my 320 XCFW last week:( , too scared i'm gonna fall on my "rebuilt" shoulder and tear it again. Boo, sux. Thinkin about a 690 Enduro though...

[Spiffav8]

Thanks Curtis, the car's actually a respectable driver finally. With the exception of a non-baffled oil pan I'd feel comfortable running recreational laps on a road course with it now.

I've also been working on fine tuning the Ultra XP carb, pulled #2 plug yesterday and it looks like I'm gaining on it.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Th3xgtf/0/XL/i-Th3xgtf-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-r2VgJhG/0/XL/i-r2VgJhG-XL.jpg

Yeah man...that's a huge investment of time and patience! Labor of love for sure.

[Sieg]

The road test of all my work took place this last weekend with a trip over the Cascade Mountain range and up through central northern Oregon to Oregon Raceway Park to meet up with Greg at a track day event.

New since any road trip of length: Rear gears, rear disc brakes, rear shocks, new front suspension bushings, ball joints, rod ends, springs, bar, and my in-house alignment.

Got a little bit of a late start, like 6:15 a.m. so I'm pressing on the first leg up over the Cascades to Sisters, OR knowing that the trip is 216 miles on single lane mostly desolate highway and the first track session probably start at 9 a.m.

Cresting the Cascades at 7:21

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9bVVtTd/0/L/i-9bVVtTd-L.jpg

Gas up in Sisters, 108 miles 12.8 mpg........not good, hit the road and top off in Madras 46 miles later for safety, 20.4 mpg much better considering the sign just past Madras says "Next Gas 92 Miles" and the track is about 60 miles and I need to at least get back there for fuel in the morning. Made it to the track with no car glitches at all at 9:45 and the country club group hadn't even ran laps yet. :D

Evening staging area with the south end of the front straight in the background set for 'clean' morning departure.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7t2qS2n/0/XL/i-7t2qS2n-XL.jpg

The return trip was smooth and equally as quick which was surprising for a Sunday. I made it to Redmond, south of Madras to refuel and made it home with a half a tank but haven't filled it up to confirm mileage.

The car ran flawlessly with the exception of the preexisting minor driveline vibration which I'm now motivated to resolve.

Front tire wear looked good as well considering the self-alignment was concern.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-n5K3QxS/0/XL/i-n5K3QxS-XL.jpg

GPS trip data:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-rQknxLW/0/L/i-rQknxLW-L.jpg

Happy guy here! Great weekend, great company, and no tickets or black flags. :D FWIW, I only saw two cops on the road the entire trip.

[GregWeld]

First track weekend EVER that I didn't spin once!!


Add that to your "great trip" === and it was win win.

[Flash68]

Awesome adventure, Scott!

[Sieg]

First track weekend EVER that I didn't spin once!!


Add that to your "great trip" === and it was win win.

Bingo!

We both almost did in T3 in the ricer though, but you didn't turn on the wipers. :lol:

[FaBrycation]

Looks like a fun time!

[Sieg]

Awesome adventure, Scott!
DG - You MUST get BMF to this track! Having the TT group up there for a couple days would be too much fun.

Looks like a fun time!
Brycen this track is a little slice of heaven away from all the hustle and bustle of the daily rat race. Downside for many is it's a camping adventure on site unless you have a motorhome and trailer as there's one 10 room motel 11 miles away the larger motel is 27 miles.

Looking West NW with Mt. Hood in the sunset.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-z7hCMDL/1/X2/i-z7hCMDL-X2.jpg

[SSLance]

There appears to have be some creative editing done on this picture...any chance of posting the original unedited copy?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-rQknxLW/0/L/i-rQknxLW-L.jpg


:D

Glad Norwood made the trip unscathed and enjoyable for you Scott, love it when a plan comes together.

[Ron in SoCal]

Great, successful adventure Scott!


DG - You MUST get BMF to this track! Having the TT group up there for a couple days would be too much fun.



Yep. DG can tow on up there and set up a jackstand display :D

:cheers:

[Sieg]

There appears to have be some creative editing done on this picture...any chance of posting the original unedited copy?
Burn the evidence buddy! Let's just say the highest posted speeds on the roads was 55 mph and 5 of the small towns were 20/25/35 mph zones that hurt the moving average. Close ratio T56 Mag FTW in the high desert open range country. :D

[Evan Iroc-Z]

Was your top speed triple digits?

[Sieg]

Great, successful adventure Scott!

Yep. DG can tow on up there and set up a jackstand display :D

:cheers:

I found the perfect track car that speaks his language.........

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-qgNRVT3/1/X2/i-qgNRVT3-X2.jpg

This little rat was matching Andy's 2-Eleven lap times too!

[Sieg]

Was your top speed triple digits?

No.......Oregon has a $1,150 fine, 30-90 day license suspension, and vehicle impoundment is an also an option for triple digit violators.

[Sieg]

There's also some interesting vehicles that show up to ORP as prototype manufacturers really like the track for testing. This is Palatov Motorsports D2 in a open wheel street legal configuration. The consumer car will be more of a full bodied supercar shell. They drove this vehicle to the track from Portland.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-MJnPB2Z/1/XL/i-MJnPB2Z-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-JWDgJmk/1/XL/i-JWDgJmk-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-cVDsdKz/1/XL/i-cVDsdKz-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xj84Dxh/1/XL/i-xj84Dxh-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xmgtvJ5/1/XL/i-xmgtvJ5-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-mmCZBbM/1/X2/i-mmCZBbM-X2.jpg

The build quality of the Palatov cars is very impressive and their D4 track car may be the best dollar to performance value out there.

Check the model lineup out: http://www.palatov.com/

[FaBrycation]

Brycen this track is a little slice of heaven away from all the hustle and bustle of the daily rat race. Downside for many is it's a camping adventure on site unless you have a motorhome and trailer as there's one 10 room motel 11 miles away the larger motel is 27 miles.

Looking West NW with Mt. Hood in the sunset.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-z7hCMDL/1/X2/i-z7hCMDL-X2.jpg

Sounds like a great place. I would love to get out to a track. The Ford Focus would be fun but I'm gunna wait for a better ride.

[Flash68]

DG - You MUST get BMF to this track! Having the TT group up there for a couple days would be too much fun.


Looks like an epic place. Any sound restriction? :stirthepot:



I found the perfect track car that speaks his language.........

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-qgNRVT3/1/X2/i-qgNRVT3-X2.jpg

This little rat was matching Andy's 2-Eleven lap times too!

Now that guy has it figured out. :cheers:

[Sieg]

Looks like an epic place. Any sound restriction? :stirthepot:

Two possible issues for you.........

No public intoxication.

9. Race motor noise: Participant noise levels must be strictly
observed. A maximum of 110 dbA will be permitted with a 108
dbA warning level. All vehicles MUST run mufflers. No race
engines may be started before 7:30 AM or after 6:00 PM.


http://oregonraceway.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Track-Map.jpg

[Flash68]

Whew, I should be good with a street motor running pump gas with 2 mufflers and all.

All true!

The key is which side of the track going the typical configuration is the sound meter on?

[Sieg]

Whew, I should be good with a street motor running pump gas with 2 mufflers and all.

All true!

The key is which side of the track going the typical configuration is the sound meter on?

Piece of cake!

I'll be there to support you.........:happy23:

I'm going to do gather dB intel and I'll report back. :captain1:

[Flash68]

I'll be there to support you.........:happy23:



I'm gonna hold you to that. :cheers:

[GregWeld]

Piece of cake!

I'll be there to support you.........:happy23:

I'm going to do gather dB intel and I'll report back. :captain1:



Like a jock strap.....

[Evan Iroc-Z]

No.......Oregon has a $1,150 fine, 30-90 day license suspension, and vehicle impoundment is an also an option for triple digit violators.

Ouch. I can see why it wasn't triple digits. Besides you can do that legally on a track.

[Sieg]

Fuel mileage report.......434 miles 15.124 mpg.

Not what I had hoped, but the car resides at 450' asl and most of the trip was between 2,400-5,000' asl. It was fat in the cruise range (12.3-12.9 afr) but altitude was not the primary factor. I'm shooting for mid 14's at cruise.

I need to find a source that can help me identify the 4150 circuit overlaps and influences in the just off idle cruise range.

I'm going to start with leaning the idle feeds in metering blocks and see what happens.

[GregWeld]

Fuel milage and performance -- with a carb? Isn't that a bit oxymoronic?? LOL


Now with EFI -- you can get that lean A:F mix and performance... But carbs just have their limits with all the transitions. I think 15 mpg with "spirited" driving is pretty dang good. Only takes a couple WOT pulls to knock your average way down.

[Sieg]

Fuel milage and performance -- with a carb? Isn't that a bit oxymoronic?? LOL


Now with EFI -- you can get that lean A:F mix and performance... But carbs just have their limits with all the transitions. I think 15 mpg with "spirited" driving is pretty dang good. Only takes a couple WOT pulls to knock your average way down.
NO! :action-smiley-027:

I've been researching and reading a bit today........I have direction!
IFR and PVCR will be on order and should get the idle/transfer AFR and WOT AFR in the pro tinkering ballpark. If I can get the cruise in the 14's consistently and WOT at 12.2 - 12.5 it should deliver more power and mileage. H*ll it might even take the Miata at ORP.

[SSLance]

I've got over 18 mpg with my carb before...including some autocross runs in those tanks. I regularly average over 15 mpg with a mix of city and highway driving.

Of course, I run a Quadrajet...so that's kind of like cheating at this game. ;)

[Sieg]

I've got over 18 mpg with my carb before...including some autocross runs in those tanks. I regularly average over 15 mpg with a mix of city and highway driving.

Of course, I run a Quadrajet...so that's kind of like cheating at this game. ;)

Lance get it straight.......it's a QuadraToilet! :D

You just wait I'll get the Ultra XP over 20 being nice and 15-16 spirited hwy driving.......spirited for a 57 year old anyway. :unibrow:

[Vegas69]

Gas mileage talk on a performance forum... :waveflag:

[waynieZ]

Gas mileage talk on a performance forum... :waveflag:

Where's the like button on here!!

[SSLance]

To me, fuel mileage just means the carb is running efficient and not just dumping fuel into the manifold hoping it burns.

If you can get 18 mpg with EFI, why couldn't you also get 18 mpg with a properly tuned carb? It's just getting it properly tuned that is the difficult part.

[Flash68]

Gas mileage talk on a performance forum... :waveflag:

Sieg has hit rock bottom.

[Sieg]

Gas mileage talk on a performance forum... :waveflag:

Sieg has hit rock bottom.

Fuel mileage = AFR
AFR = Power
Gas mileage = Range
Range = Finishing

Jackstands for two years = Rock bottom
No car = Bottom feeder

[Flash68]

Jackstands for two years = Rock bottom


How rude of you to talk about Rob like that when he's not around these days.




No car = Bottom feeder

Hey, the man has an 89 Grand Cherokee. Give him the street cred he deserves.

[Panteracer]

Funny I used to laugh at those wanting gas
mileage... My pantera had a blown power valve and
no gasket between the base plate and carb (engine builder senior moment)
One made it rich and the other lean...and very edgy

Had the carb reworked recently and now it is smoother and
actually easier to run on the track in and out of turns... not
edgy but smooth

I can also jump in it and run to Monterey and back and make it
Before it was real dicey and never get on it or I had to stop at
the gas station

I still run it and the Bird Rich as I still fear the lean and blow up thing

Bob

[Vegas69]

How rude of you to talk about Rob like that when he's not around these days.



Hey, the man has an 89 Grand Cherokee. Give him the street cred he deserves.

I had so much fun in my pro touring car that I got sick of it and sold it. Jealousy is not healthy, buddy ro. haha

[GregWeld]

Jackstands for two years = Rock bottom
No car = Bottom feeder




That's just funny as all get out right there.... So true too!

[Flash68]

I had so much fun in my pro touring car that I got sick of it and sold it. Jealousy is not healthy, buddy ro. haha

The power scared you. And you bailed. We all know that. :lol:



Jackstands for two years = Rock bottom


You just insulted hundreds of Lateral G members. Nice job, MODERATOR. :underchair:

[Sieg]

You just insulted hundreds of Lateral G members. Nice job, MODERATOR. :underchair:
Nice attempt at a spin..........I know you'll do better at the track. :thumbsup:

[Roberts68]

You just insulted hundreds of Lateral G members. Nice job, MODERATOR. :underchair:

Insulted = motivated.

(Over-Qualified to comment on jack stands... Although 2+ years in "corn-crib" stand class)
:shakehead:

[Flash68]

Insulted = motivated.

(Over-Qualified to comment on jack stands... Although 2+ years in "corn-crib" stand class)
:shakehead:

I like it Robert... turn Sieg's underhanded high-horse low blow aimed at the masses of Lateral G into a positive and run with it. That's the spirit.

:sieg:

[Sieg]

I like it Robert... turn Sieg's underhanded high-horse low blow aimed at the masses of Lateral G into a positive and run with it. That's the spirit.

:sieg:

Well at least I like your band..........

GrQCro68sRU

[Sieg]

I finally had a chance to test out Chad Ryker's audio cure for GoPro cameras using an Olympus ME-51S microphone, Movo GMA100 cable adapter, UGREEN 3.5mm male to female extension cable, and Movo WS1 Furry Outdor Windscreen mounted above the rear license plate tucked in between the body and bumper. What do you think?

HaDTWMmsSbk

[fleet]

Wow...intoxicating sounds. :thumbsup:

#moreplease

[DBasher]

Sounds like a keeper!
:action-smiley-027:

[Sonar Chief]

X2 intoxicating .... haven't messed with a GoPro yet but the mods sound great!

Who needs a stereo with that resonating in the cabin ... enjoy the car!

Michael

[SlowProgress]

X3 that sounds awesome. Now how to remember all this 5 years from now when I actually get to drive mine.

[waynieZ]

Wow that sounds excellent, and the motor sounds Sweet!!

[fleet]

X2 intoxicating .... haven't messed with a GoPro yet but the mods sound great!

Who needs a stereo with that resonating in the cabin ... enjoy the car!

Michael

Especially when #theSieg gets on it around the 1:50 mark. :cool:

[Sieg]

X2 intoxicating .... haven't messed with a GoPro yet but the mods sound great!

Who needs a stereo with that resonating in the cabin ... enjoy the car!

Michael

I took the stereo out of the car in 1990 when I installed the Flowmaster dual in/out transverse muffler and mounted a temp and oil pressure gauges in the opening. Never have had a desire to have a radio/stereo in it since.

LS motors are great but the sound of a Gen 1 SBC is still music to my ears. :D

I'm going to try another mic location next time I get a chance, I think it may improve from this video. After having 5 GoPro's with the Hero 3 being the last I can say with confidence the audio quality pretty much sucks for motorsports.

Overall this microphone set up is a serious game changer for $60 considering the years of frustration I've dealt with. :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

Especially when #theSieg gets on it around the 1:50 mark. :cool:

When you drive a Miata 98% of the time this tends to happen... :peepwall:

[waynieZ]

LS motors are great but the sound of a Gen 1 SBC is still music to my ears.


No truer word have ever been typed!:trophy-1302:

I loved hearing my 69 Z/28 wind to 8,000 SAAAAWEEEET !

[Sieg]

Had a break in the weather and a small window of time to experiment with video shots this afternoon.

Haven't spent much time with the GoPro as I was so frustrated with the audio I lost interest. Still re-familiarizing myself with the aspect ratios, so these are all 'rough' samples.

EJ4BA0giqXs
....yet another missed shift :sieg:

T68aBJ139y8
Bellhousing nicked the camera! On the mount is was 3-3/4" tall.

sK-WcdTOd_o
Why I've never had a need for music in the car. :D

[SlowProgress]

Where is the like button? I watched them all like 5 times grinning!

[DBasher]

Love it, Sieg!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1k8craCGpgs

:thumbsup:

[SSLance]

Finally got to watch and more importantly listen to these on the good PC with the good speakers...very nice Scott (except for the shifting part :D ).

I've wanted to do this mod ever since Chad first started posting his videos using the setup...I ordered the parts this weekend and can't wait to try them out.

Did any of the fun test runs convince you to change your mind yet... :snapout:

[Sieg]

Did any of the fun test runs convince you to change your mind yet... :snapout:

No but the old adage 'fix or repair daily' has. :D

[fleet]

When you drive a Miata 98% of the time this tends to happen... :peepwall:

#Moderate(d)burn

:P



I loved hearing my 69 Z/28 wind to 8,000 SAAAAWEEEET !

Wayne,

I think you'll like hearing this '69 Z going through the gears. Great sound with the chambered exhaust(IIRC), especially at the 3:30+ min mark. But yeah, I'd like to hear one at 8 grand!


kS9UrU_ugUk

[intocarss]

I finally had a chance to test out Chad Ryker's audio cure for GoPro cameras using an Olympus ME-51S microphone, Movo GMA100 cable adapter, UGREEN 3.5mm male to female extension cable, and Movo WS1 Furry Outdor Windscreen mounted above the rear license plate tucked in between the body and bumper. What do you think?

HaDTWMmsSbkSounds good, BUT... you went over the double yellow line!!! :rules: :relax:

[Sieg]

Sounds good, BUT... you went over the double yellow line!!! :rules: :relax:
Nice try, never crossed may have just touched it a couple of times but I run clean lines on that road. Started practicing on that road with motorcycles back in '83. :D

[waynieZ]

I just watched the Z/28 video , wish it was me driving it. I would have. tached it up anothe 1k lol. Thanks

[jarhead]

i had never read about Norwood, well until 3 days ago. Wow that was allot of posts!

I enjoyed the heck out of this adventure, and learned a lot of things from all the posts, but more importantly Sieg :sieg: taught me allot of things. Patientce for my build that is slow, how to simplify a few things during the process, and how to respond to things that go wrong with building an old car.

Most of all the community here banding together insults and all, lol

What a great story!

:trophy-1302:

[Track Junky]

Huh. I thought he had sold the car for another Miata 😂

[Sieg]

Huh. I thought he had sold the car for another Miata 😂
Don't pick on Miata's until you can beat them on a regular basis. :D

[Sieg]

After last weekend Norwood is also know as the "Police Special" :unibrow:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-T4393Qf/0/d4e5106c/L/i-T4393Qf-L.jpg

[Blake Foster]

After last weekend Norwood is also know as the "Police Special" :unibrow:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-T4393Qf/0/d4e5106c/L/i-T4393Qf-L.jpg

you didn't show the Police Chief the video of you Speeding, driving recklessly did you :D:D

[Sieg]

you didn't show the Police Chief the video of you Speeding, driving recklessly did you :D:D

Recklessly! Well within the limits of reasonable control at all times. :rules:

This Chief also races a dirt track car. ;)

[Roscoe03]

I read your thread from the beginning and just finished after a couple days of reading. What a great build and thanks for sharing.

[Sieg]

I read your thread from the beginning and just finished after a couple days of reading. What a great build and thanks for sharing.

Hope you were wearing waders. :D

[SSLance]

Yet another long lost camaro... Any updates on it Sieg? :D

When did it last see the light of day?

[Sieg]

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-sqDL2mf/0/87c7b03b/L/i-sqDL2mf-L.jpg

It's sitting in winter storage in good company ready to roll on short notice. :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

Yet another long lost camaro... Any updates on it Sieg? :D



The update is he bought a Subaru that now tickles his fancy more.... :hitaxeonthehead:

[Sieg]

Well 6 days ago it looked like Norwood had a very good chance of getting barbequed in the Holiday Farm Fire in the McKenzie River Valley. The 'rest home' where the car resides went to Level 3 Go Now evacuation status at 1:30 pm Tuesday from the fire that started 36 miles up river. The fire traveled 21 miles west in less than 14 hours!

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-qmW8LXT/0/3d1482d1/XL/i-qmW8LXT-XL.jpg

Late Saturday the area went back to level 2 as the fire appears to have been contained 5 miles east of the 'rest home' after consuming 165,000 acres in 3.5 days.

Many friends up the valley aren't nearly as fortunate.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DKjr92c/0/ae5b6398/XL/i-DKjr92c-XL.png

[camcojb]

Wow Scott! :confused59: I'm so glad you didn't lose a part of your family.

[Sieg]

Wow Scott! :confused59: I'm so glad you didn't lose a part of your family.

He would have died in good company.....

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ScSVxgN/0/c926859f/XL/i-ScSVxgN-XL.jpg

'50 Ford Woody on the rack, '56 Ford pickup, '32 Ford Dearborn Deuce Coupe (body #1) and a few others in the shop. Norwood's the ugly stepchild of the group. :D

[SSLance]

Oh man... Can't believe what the West\Northwest has gone through this fire season. Thankful Norwood is safe for now.

[WSSix]

I'm glad to hear you, the family, and the car made it out ok. Hope everyone else in the area is doing well, too.

[Roscoe03]

Any updates on this bad boy?

[dhutton]

Any updates on this bad boy?

I think he left the reservation….

[Sieg]

Norwood is still alive 😉

Older video, though nothing has changed.
https://youtu.be/_C6wd6Z65kY?si=QjthxHpjQrOocoXn
_C6wd6Z65kY

My daily driver the last 7 years still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. 292 whp @5800 364 wtq @3400 through the stock cat back exhaust. Big Brembo brakes, numerous suspension upgrades, etc.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RsvrsGC/0/K4tKHJtfGRwVnnwxpqkJBDFfBSvJ6d8RkjMQ7fJx8/XL/i-RsvrsGC-XL.jpg

So poor Norwood is mostly a 'special events' car.

[camcojb]

Daily driver looks like fun. :thumbsup:

[DBasher]

"special events car" haha so you don't drive it...whens the last time you saw it?

kissy face emoji

[Roscoe03]

Glad to hear you still have the car! The Soobi looks sweet and I bet with awd, is a blast to drive.

This is still one of my favorite builds on this site due to the amount of detail you posted about as your build progressed.

[Sieg]

"special events car" haha so you don't drive it...whens the last time you saw it?

kissy face emoji

Last time I drove it was Aug 3rd.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Sn7TsRs/0/LmzmGRt9twV5fcv4DXmR2WDqM9KJcJqzT73wwDXpx/1920/i-Sn7TsRs-1920.mp4

I take care of my buddy's property (who garages it) while he's in Meas, AZ Oct-April. I'm never too far from good old Norwood. It's about 15 minutes from my place via one of my favorite roads.... 20 minutes if you're driving. :D

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hRt4RvM/0/MmBVXkN2JrJzSnt4zqppdbP6x6wGJh3fD9zhZdkDf/L/i-hRt4RvM-L.jpg

[Sieg]

Glad to hear you still have the car! The Soobi looks sweet and I bet with awd, is a blast to drive.

This is still one of my favorite builds on this site due to the amount of detail you posted about as your build progressed.

Thanks, very much appreciate your words.

There's still a significant amount of sentimental value in the car, for multiple reasons after 36 years of ownership. It's still a respectable driver, and a set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4 tires will make it even better.

Just had the Subie out in the snow today and it never fails to impress. Nor do the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 A/S in Oregon weather.

The Camaro just don't do that sh*t! :lol: