Camaro XV [Archive] - Page 5 - Lateral-g Forums

Stielow

10-03-2014, 04:35 AM

Beautiful! Great color combination.

Where is the Ecu mounted?

Because we moved the dry sump tank into the cowl area it freed up the old batttey area. Still very easy to get to but a bit hiddened. I learned on past build make that easy to get to. Also the fuse box is very easy to get to.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20141003_063904_zps9bf8d35a.jpg

The car is not done and is still missing a few parts like the fuse box cover, engine bar stiffening bars.....

I need to finish the dash this weekend and it will be out on the road. So far the car is turning out like I hoped.

It took me a bit to adjust to the flaired front fenders but after the car settled 3/4 of an inch on the trailer on the way home it is looking a lot better. The springs will settle a bit more and it should be about right.

It was great to cruise the block last night. Car feel very solid and rattle free. Brakes and steering have a nice weight and feel. I can't wait to hit the track!

Mark

214Chevy

10-03-2014, 05:29 AM

Hellfire is back at Mark's shop! The paint, carbon fiber and cerakote trim/wheels look amazing!

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1286.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1286.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1289.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1289.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1270.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1270.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1272.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1272.jpg.html)

More pics....

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1274.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1274.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1277.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1277.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1278.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1278.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1261.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1261.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1263.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1263.jpg.html)

These shots will be highly used on a lot of computer screens as desktop pics. Looking good Mark. Don't know what cerakote is nor have I ever heard of it until now, but it sure is sweet. Kinda wanted to do something like that with my wheel centers and bumpers.

rickpaw

10-03-2014, 05:31 AM

The car looks amazing.

:king: :king: :king: :king: :king:

LS7 Z/28

10-03-2014, 05:47 AM

Man that looks awesome Mark!

Did you hide a couple LED strips for turn signals? I think I see one in one of the photos. It looks like you decided against the Anvil front valance light buckets and traditional turn signals.

andreb

10-03-2014, 06:25 AM

Just amazing! Every detail just pulls you in to notice even more detail. You inspire us all to build better and better.

Sieg

10-03-2014, 06:52 AM

Exceptional!

Congratulations to everyone involved in the project. :thumbsup:

Track Junky

10-03-2014, 06:54 AM

The whole package on this car is just off the charts. Color, stripes, and wheel combo/style & color truly fit the theme and purpose. Just amazing!!

Evan Iroc-Z

10-03-2014, 07:05 AM

Absolutely incredible on all levels.

Would it be possible for me to get a high resolution shot sent to me?

GregWeld

10-03-2014, 07:07 AM

Laura is really going to like this car.... LOL

Your vision and execution are stunning.

Stielow

10-03-2014, 07:31 AM

Laura is really going to like this car.... LOL

Your vision and execution are stunning.

Ha Laura wants to drive it but I think that maybe a bad idea. This thing pulls hard. So far you can ingnite the rear tires in the first 4 gears. We were going to build an engine cal that holds the bypass open on the blower for her, but at 3 psi it still makes 600ish HP.

The team of people that helped me on this car are the best I've worked with. With my schedule over the last year I would have never gotten it done without their help. We work great together. I have the ideas and we execute them. Over the 2.5 years we have been working on this project I can only think of a few things that needed to be scrapped and redone.

It felt good to just drive it last night. Drove back in the shop and had a beer. I know I will make SEMA and I'm still not sure how the OUSCI deal will turn out. New track, new rules, new format. At this point I'm good just making it.

My other bigger project the Z-28 turned out great and at the end of the day GM pays my bills. This car stuff is just a hobby and it can consume you if you let it.

Looking forward to going to SEMA and hanging out in the Optima booth and seeing old friends.

Thanks for everyone's kind words. Now I need to get it done and take it to Waterford Oct 12 then Gingerman Oct 17.

Deadlines focuses the mind……

Mark

RussMurco

10-03-2014, 09:26 AM

The bar has been raised yet again! Wow, Mark, the car turned out just so nice!
I can't wait to see more pics!

The new Recaro seats feel great. Supportive yet not like a hard shell. Very comfortable.
Mark
Are you using the new Sportsters?

JB64CHEVELLE

10-03-2014, 09:38 AM

WOW! not enough words to describe how nice this one is:trophy-1302:

mitch_04

10-03-2014, 09:45 AM

I've always wanted to go to SEMA to see everything. Now I want to go just to have a chance to have a conversation with you! This car is everything I would want in a project.

BADcarma

10-03-2014, 06:45 PM

redsand

10-03-2014, 06:47 PM

As always incredible job....can't wait to see it in person

LS7 Z/28

10-03-2014, 09:52 PM

In August 2005 Hot Rod Magazine declared R.J. Gottlieb's Big Red Camaro "The World's Baddest Camaro!" Time and technology marched on and I think Mark just built the car to grab that title from Big Red.

I cant wait to see this thing run!!!

:idea: Maybe it's time for a collaboration between R.J. and Mark to update Big Red?

I have as much respect for Mark and his incredible cars as anyone, but even Mark respects Big Red. Big Red has evolved as the years have gone by and is constantly breaking new ground just like Mark, just in different areas of the car world. From Open road racing to standing mile to Bonneville. Big Red is bad ass.

This is from 6 months ago... Enough Said.

yoeBaFmFj-M

Roberts68

10-04-2014, 05:36 AM

Well said Casey.
Mark Stielow's accomplishments and contributions stand alone without diminishing others... Especially other trail breaking icons.

Stielow

10-04-2014, 06:18 PM

81990

We scaled the car today. It was close to my estimate of 3350 lbs. We hit 3382 lbs and around 51.6 front weight. This car is over 150 lbs lighter than Red Devil and is up over 150 HP. Over all I'm happy with the way it turned out. This car is a tad heavier than Mayhem but the weight bias is a lot better. The better weight distribution and the down force should make the this car faster than the last two.

With the added cooling on this car I'm happy that the front mass was as low as it was. The engine cooling system holds 4 gallons and the intercooler system hold another gallon. So I have 40 lbs of water under the hood.

The car has A/C, dynamat and a full sound system. So it is a car you could take on Power Tour.

Mark

clill

10-04-2014, 07:23 PM

Sweet :-)

Ns RS

10-04-2014, 07:50 PM

Beautiful - Charley this deserves its own roped section at MCACN. Mark Goodluck on the 17th - can't wait to hear it at WOT

Sieg

10-04-2014, 07:57 PM

Impressive number considering the level of components under the skin of this car.

Did you weight the metal vs carbon body panels?

preston

10-04-2014, 10:44 PM

The cowl vents are blocked off. Do you have a fresh air inlet for the cockpit or you are just running a recirculating A/C system ?

El_Tortuga

10-05-2014, 06:28 AM

Congrats. Car looks gorgeous and the engine bay super sanitary.

Stielow

10-05-2014, 08:13 AM

The cowl vents are blocked off. Do you have a fresh air inlet for the cockpit or you are just running a recirculating A/C system ?

I have found the Vintage Air works the best if you totally seal the car. All of the kick panel vents leak. I cap them off.

mikels

10-05-2014, 06:48 PM

Ha Laura wants to drive it but I think that maybe a bad idea. This thing pulls hard. So far you can ingnite the rear tires in the first 4 gears. We were going to build an engine cal that holds the bypass open on the blower for her, but at 3 psi it still makes 600ish HP.

Actually it makes 702 HP and 675 TQ with bypass open - and 600+ #/ft from 2300-6100 RPM. Can always reduce throttle opening to drop power a little more.....

Dropping power is always easier than finding more!

Dave

Jay Hilliard

10-06-2014, 05:35 AM

I cannot imagine how this car will feel with 950ft tq but I would love find out. Pulling out of a corner on the track would be incredible, if you can get it hook up.

Z06Joe

10-06-2014, 07:10 AM

Another work of art Mark!!! Great looking car. Can't wait to see/hear how it does at SEMA and the OUSCI!!!!!

Best of luck!!!

ArisESQ

10-06-2014, 12:13 PM

Question for you, Mark - are the headers on Hellfire uncoated, and if so, is there any reason you chose not to ceramic coat them?

It seemed that you spent a lot of effort to keep oil and intake temp low. Wouldn't coating the headers help keep temp lower as well?

http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Camaro%20XV/DSC_1263.jpg.html

Vince@Meanstreets

10-06-2014, 01:10 PM

this thread needs a table on contents.

Another thought, You should have enough pictures and content for a nice fat build book.

DavidBoren

10-06-2014, 01:14 PM

Holy favorite car, EVER! I just read 104 pages of perfection. Truly superb build, sir.

I believe he said the headers are ceramic chrome coated, to answer the previous question.

ArisESQ

10-06-2014, 01:38 PM

Holy favorite car, EVER! I just read 104 pages of perfection. Truly superb build, sir.

I believe he said the headers are ceramic chrome coated, to answer the previous question.

Thanks!

Stielow

10-07-2014, 09:25 AM

I've been finalizing the wiring so here is a crappy cell phone pic of the head lights.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20141005_213541_zps2409b12e.jpg

Trust me it looks better in person. The lower daytime running lights also have the turn signals built in. They cycle from DRL to turn signal.

Getting closer to be on the road every day and running out of time.

Mark

Stielow

10-07-2014, 09:32 AM

LS7 Z/28

10-07-2014, 09:51 AM

The lights look cool Mark. Did you buy the Anvil light buckets and not like them or did you intend on using LED strips all along?

Stielow

10-07-2014, 11:29 AM

The lights look cool Mark. Did you buy the Anvil light buckets and not like them or did you intend on using LED strips all along?

I knew I wanted to do the brake cooling ducts so we incorporated the turn signal and driving lights inside the brake cooling ducts. You can barely see them off. I wanted them to be inside the cooling ducts.

Mark

LS7 Z/28

10-07-2014, 11:52 AM

I knew I wanted to do the brake cooling ducts so we incorporated the turn signal and driving lights inside the brake cooling ducts. You can barely see them off. I wanted them to be inside the cooling ducts.

Mark

Two birds with one stone, I understand your reasoning now.

I like the hidden look of the signals/DRL. The front of the car looks great. I wasn't sure how it would look without the classic '69 Front Valance but it's awesome. I'm still debating what to do.

Thanks for sharing.

Roberts68

10-07-2014, 12:09 PM

How about a full on frontal picture in daylight (shop lights on) so we can see, or not "see" the grill, ducts, lights and such?

As for the book, I completely agree but I think we can all appreciate your timelines, deadlines of late with this and the Z-28... not to mention life in general.

Have you considered collaborating with someone to make additional books happen? On that note, I bet you would have no shortage of volunteers to help with such a project.

Perhaps some bio and back story excerpts from Building the Mule added to your website on previous projects would be of interest as evidenced by recent inquiries in this thread? It might serve to sell a few more copies as there is plenty for most enthusiasts to learn there, as a prequel to Playing with Hellfire

:king:

El_Tortuga

10-07-2014, 08:08 PM

I have as much respect for Mark and his incredible cars as anyone, but even Mark respects Big Red. Big Red has evolved as the years have gone by and is constantly breaking new ground just like Mark, just in different areas of the car world. From Open road racing to standing mile to Bonneville. Big Red is bad ass.

This is from 6 months ago... Enough Said.

yoeBaFmFj-M

Good gravy, that is a BIG # for 60s aero.

MotorCityImpala

10-07-2014, 09:24 PM

Mark

Another phemoninal build. What brand of LED strip are you using and is it plug and play or do you have to make a harness for them?

Todd

I knew I wanted to do the brake cooling ducts so we incorporated the turn signal and driving lights inside the brake cooling ducts. You can barely see them off. I wanted them to be inside the cooling ducts.

Mark

tom091074

10-07-2014, 11:41 PM

Mark, what or how did you do the brake cooling duct from the frame to the rotor? Hope it's not top secret. :lol:

Stielow

10-08-2014, 04:28 AM

Mark

Another phemoninal build. What brand of LED strip are you using and is it plug and play or do you have to make a harness for them?

Todd

Ebay...

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/Capture_zps8e1703ac.jpg

They are wired when you power the turn signal the white LEDs go out. Not like a new car they flash between yellow and white with the turn signal on. On a OE car the white driving lights go off when the turn signals are on. We ran all the wires to the dash so we can do it that way later if I want to build the circuit.

Mark

redfire69

10-08-2014, 05:22 AM

Thanks Mark. Sled posted Amazon as a source on FB, but I couldn't find them without the details above. Ron

http://www.amazon.com/Style-LED-Daytime-Running-Signals/dp/B0084Y9RP8

Keithq68

10-09-2014, 04:26 AM

Stielow

10-09-2014, 05:05 AM

Mark, the level of detail that goes into your cars is truly staggering.
Each time you build one i think it's going to be as far as you can go and then you outdo yourself on the next one.
The general population won't realise it as much because your builds are so clean and look so OEM but people here who built cars understand the amount of work and focus it takes to get a car to this level.
Congrats, truly in awe.

Keith.

Keith,

Thanks for the post. Yes, unless you have attempted to build a car like this you can't apprciate the effort and the hours involved in doing a project. I can no longer do it alone. There are a ton of folks that help me.

Mark

Stielow

10-09-2014, 05:10 AM

Stopped by Lingenfelter's yesterday to do a quick check on the as installed engine calibration. With a conservative cal we are making more power then Mayhem. Also with repeated pulls the engine and charge air cooler temps were rock solid. Driving the car home it feels strong. Light tire spin with 4th gear roll on on the highway.

Dropped the car back of at Sled Alley to wrap up a few interior and trim details.

Still on track to make Waterford track event Sunday.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20141008_165343_zps648716c1.jpg

MotorCityImpala

10-09-2014, 05:34 AM

Mark thanks for the reply. I have been looking for something for my car. This is a great help.

Your TEAM is Top Notch.

OUSCI competitors are already throwing in the towel after reading your latest news.

:king:

Todd

srh3trinity

10-09-2014, 06:17 AM

I like how he said "light tire spin in fourth."

carbuff

10-09-2014, 08:32 AM

Mark,

Once upon a time, perhaps back in the Mayhem days, I recall you mentioning that you made up the hood vents yourself, and you might have a mold to be able to make more. Did you make these also for this hood, or did you have them made by someone else?

I'm looking for an option to add something similar to my hood for heat extraction. It's amazing how hot everything gets under there after driving for a little while.

Love the project, best of luck with the shakedown!

Sieg

10-09-2014, 08:45 AM

Will Hellfire get a set of Hoosier's at some point?

LS7 Z/28

10-09-2014, 09:50 AM

Will Hellfire get a set of Hoosier's at some point?

That's blasphemy! Where is Jimi Day to chime in when he's needed. :sarcasm_smiley:

I would love to see photos/videos of that. Hoosier makes great tires.

Rybar

10-10-2014, 12:14 AM

Looks great Mark, any shots of the back of the car? Does it have a rear spoiler?

LS7 Z/28

10-10-2014, 06:18 AM

Looks great Mark, any shots of the back of the car? Does it have a rear spoiler?

Look at page 67 and page 97.

ArisESQ

10-10-2014, 09:42 AM

Any interior pics yet? Are those Recaro Sportsters?

Flash68

10-10-2014, 10:25 AM

Mark, how much ground clearance on that front splitter? Its looks quite a bit higher off the ground vs the new Z28.

Stielow

10-10-2014, 10:29 AM

Drove the car to work today and showed to a few co-workers

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20141010_092612_zps07a45664.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20141010_093254_zps921f4e4d.jpg

Mark

Stielow

10-10-2014, 10:31 AM

Mark, how much ground clearance on that front splitter? Its looks quite a bit higher off the ground vs the new Z28.

The final trim height has not been set so I don't know yet. See the above pictures we lowered the car another 3/4 of an inch and things are looking better..

Mark

Sonar Chief

10-10-2014, 10:55 AM

Very nice .... must be a great feeling to stretch the legs :king:

Rick D

10-10-2014, 11:06 AM

That's gotta feel great to be driving it around!! Congrats Mark!!!

Sieg

10-10-2014, 11:25 AM

Congrats! All kinds of time to spare......LOL :thumbsup:

waynieZ

10-10-2014, 09:56 PM

Very Nice Mark, I love your work.

coolwelder62

10-11-2014, 08:34 AM

tmadden

10-11-2014, 08:46 AM

I'm so jealous

Roberts68

10-11-2014, 11:14 AM

Standing by for vid clips, sound bytes... anything really, anything at all.:popcorn2:

Keep it coming, it's phenomenal.

The grey cerakote trim was a great accent choice as opposed to body color or black. I really like that you used the trim as opposed to flush glass etc...

olds87

10-11-2014, 12:51 PM

This has to be the best car yet. Will there be any plans of car at Good Guys show in Scottsdale the following week of OUSCI in Las Vegas?

ChuckDriver

10-11-2014, 01:02 PM

Car looks amazing!

Sales@Dutchboys

10-12-2014, 03:28 PM

My girlfriend and I were in the Detroit area last night for a concert and stayed the night about 20 minutes from Waterford so we decided to take a ride over and see Mark make a few test passes on the track. The car looked great going around the track. Here are a few photos and a short video that I took before we had to get back on the road.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/5F5D57E1-CE35-43F0-8CCF-A06FD4D35D6A_zpsabxltp2m.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/5F5D57E1-CE35-43F0-8CCF-A06FD4D35D6A_zpsabxltp2m.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/70CC4DA3-9CD5-44F8-9D57-F8DD332871AC_zpsseah80pw.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/70CC4DA3-9CD5-44F8-9D57-F8DD332871AC_zpsseah80pw.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/C0FE2966-62C1-4881-B22A-950F712DB376_zps3mkgkj4j.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/C0FE2966-62C1-4881-B22A-950F712DB376_zps3mkgkj4j.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/52C3AA92-FB21-43E3-99D1-B1A48C29728F_zps4zfuicpz.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/52C3AA92-FB21-43E3-99D1-B1A48C29728F_zps4zfuicpz.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/A88E9871-C557-401D-A54E-4C5D074D427B_zpsy9eltbbi.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/A88E9871-C557-401D-A54E-4C5D074D427B_zpsy9eltbbi.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/2E22D0A5-1BC7-4428-8251-581C775EAB83_zpsvuhafzpp.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/2E22D0A5-1BC7-4428-8251-581C775EAB83_zpsvuhafzpp.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/FB476532-C9D5-48A9-962A-44BB62D723B5_zpsfg2kceqj.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/FB476532-C9D5-48A9-962A-44BB62D723B5_zpsfg2kceqj.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/09A274C3-80D2-43E8-A5B1-E56A1BEC3803_zpsfhk4r7kg.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/09A274C3-80D2-43E8-A5B1-E56A1BEC3803_zpsfhk4r7kg.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/th_9E9A1B18-BEC8-4E0E-87B0-F883DFBFA707_zpswwkx7lde.mp4 (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/9E9A1B18-BEC8-4E0E-87B0-F883DFBFA707_zpswwkx7lde.mp4)

southsidehacker

10-12-2014, 05:32 PM

Breathing fire!!! Lookin' good Mark!

LS7 Z/28

10-12-2014, 06:04 PM

So has this car been Charley's since day 1? I see you have updated tabs on that California liscense plate.:poke:

JohnC

10-12-2014, 06:47 PM

ModernDay67SS

10-12-2014, 06:59 PM

Wow!!! Love it... Amazing build!!!

okyankee

10-12-2014, 07:27 PM

did I miss the page with the interior shots?

Van B

10-12-2014, 08:12 PM

So has this car been Charley's since day 1? I see you have updated tabs on that California liscense plate.:poke:

I asked Mark this once. Apparently you can register a car on it's CA plates no matter where you live.

LS7 Z/28

10-12-2014, 08:55 PM

I asked Mark this once. Apparently you can register a car on it's CA plates no matter where you live.

Thanks, I had no idea. That seems really crazy.

clill

10-12-2014, 09:06 PM

Ca.wants the money. They don't care if you live out of state.

ANVIL1

10-13-2014, 10:11 AM

Ca.wants the money. They don't care if you live out of state.

You just hit the nail on the head, Charley!

Chevy Kid

10-13-2014, 10:15 AM

Car reg. fees were once for fixing roads but now are a general fund revenue generator. And our state is broke.

Car looks great, Mark. Looking forward to seeing it at SEMA.

89 RS

10-13-2014, 10:47 PM

Great work Mark, that thing is wicked cool!

Stielow

10-14-2014, 05:33 AM

Thanks for all the kind word and support.

This was the best first track outing I have ever had on a new build. It was very close right out of the box.

The engine works great. After a 20 minute session the coolant temp was 193 F. I know it was a cool day but that is great.

The brakes feel great, nice high hard pedal. The ABS trail brakes in very nice.

The clutch is easy to modulate and plenty of high RPM reserve.

The DSE chassis was good out of the box. I made some educated guesses on the spring rates and sway bar setting based of the new mass and front weight bias. Over all very close. I also looked at my old notes and put an initial shock cal on the car and it was close also.

So for a quick shake down on a small track I feel very good where the car is at. I still have some small issues but nothing that will keep me from testing this Friday at Gingerman.

I have a lot of data from Gingerman and that will be the true test of this car. I'm also working on finding a place to practice AutoX. I have some plans in the works and something will come together. Looks like Tire Rack has two AutoXs this weekend in South Bend so that will work.

It is always entertaining to roll this kind of car off the trailer at an open track event. Some people knew who I was so they were not surprised the car was fast. A lot of people walked around it and looked at it like it was the space shuttle.

I do need to sort out how to ask people to look with their eyes and not their fingers.

Mark

RussMurco

10-14-2014, 06:55 AM

... A lot of people walked around it and looked at it like it was the space shuttle.

Mark

In the world of 1969 Camaros that car IS the space shuttle!
Great job, Mark! This is your best ride yet!!!

cspecken

10-14-2014, 06:56 AM

Hi Mark, fantastic job on another high quality build. I am curious if you used a battery disconnect with a remote solenoid in the trunk? If so are you sending power to the alternator from the back of the car or do you have a power block up front? I am currently wiring my car up and thought I would see how you handled this in your build.

Thank you in advance, Chris

syborg tt

10-14-2014, 07:04 AM

Morning Mark,

The car looks great and I think the problem people have with cars as nice as this one they need to touch it and see if it's real carbon and if the paint feels any different then the paint on there car I guess.

One of my favorite video's about people and a stop at the gas station in a Super Car

Getting Gas in a Ferrari 360 Modena

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yzVVN43Z5o

On a side note I will be in Portage on Saturday riding Imagination Glenn and I would love to swing by and see your car in action. What time is the event on Saturday as I didn't see it on there Calendar.

ps - I promise I won't touch the car

I have a lot of data from Gingerman and that will be the true test of this car. I'm also working on finding a place to practice AutoX. I have some plans in the works and something will come together. Looks like Tire Rack has two AutoXs this weekend in South Bend so that will work.

It is always entertaining to roll this kind of car off the trailer at an open track event. Some people knew who I was so they were not surprised the car was fast. A lot of people walked around it and looked at it like it was the space shuttle.

I do need to sort out how to ask people to look with their eyes and not their fingers.

Mark

LS7 Z/28

10-14-2014, 07:25 AM

It is always entertaining to roll this kind of car off the trailer at an open track event. A lot of people walked around it and looked at it like it was the space shuttle.
Mark

Hahahahaha and if you told them how much money you have into the build or how much power it has they would look at you like you had two heads.

Ron in SoCal

10-14-2014, 07:28 AM

I do need to sort out how to ask people to look with their eyes and not their fingers.

Mark

That part's easy Mark. You just say in your very polite Midwestern accent,

"Get your F'n hands off my car, Sir." :lol:

I, on the other hand, have much less tact. :D :cheers:

Sieg

10-14-2014, 07:32 AM

I do need to sort out how to ask people to look with their eyes and not their fingers.

Mark

Almost as effective as your brakes:
http://www.pimall.com/nais/images/x26ctitle.jpg

Nice job on the thermal management. :thumbsup:

frojoe

10-14-2014, 09:26 AM

"Imagine my car like your wife, others can only look, no touchy." Haha.

Still want some videos preferably with exhaust notes!

Lous69

10-14-2014, 12:06 PM

Based on the level of craftsmanship I saw evident in all the projects at Dutchboy's shop a couple weeks ago, I suspect people have a need to verify that the car has real carbon fiber parts. Usually, carbon fiber doesn't look that flawless, ESPECIALLY on a full tilt boogie race car like yours. Still, no excuse for them to actually touch it of course.

Dewboy

10-17-2014, 06:32 PM

Went to Gingerman today to check out XV. Here are some shots I took. What a great build Mark. Also had a great time hanging out with you guys today. Good luck out at SEMA.

formula88

10-17-2014, 06:51 PM

A perfect Michigan Fall day for a little test and tune.....

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1322.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1322.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1365.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1365.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1379.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1379.jpg.html)

formula88

10-17-2014, 06:58 PM

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1421.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1421.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1482.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1482.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1490.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1490.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1502.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1502.jpg.html)

formula88

10-17-2014, 07:01 PM

Hellfire is aptly named....

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1343.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1343.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1500.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1500.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1515.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1515.jpg.html)

formula88

10-17-2014, 07:04 PM

formula88

10-17-2014, 07:06 PM

The headers are turning a cool shade of blue...

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1461.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1461.jpg.html)

Jay Hilliard

10-17-2014, 07:20 PM

Awesome pics. Thanks for sharing!

streetbird

10-17-2014, 07:23 PM

waynieZ

10-17-2014, 07:57 PM

Wow that's amazing! Thanks

Sieg

10-17-2014, 08:37 PM

Beautiful simply beautiful!

The suspension travel is impressive. :thumbsup:

Vince@Meanstreets

10-17-2014, 09:16 PM

Nice shots!!!!!!

Car looks good out there.
Any word on initial impressions?

Sonar Chief

10-17-2014, 09:29 PM

X2 Maybe Mark will chime in? I know I would have a smile on my face that you couldn't knock off me .... that is PERFECTION :trophy-1302:

Thanks for posting pixs!

FETorino

10-17-2014, 09:50 PM

Check out the glowing carbon ceramic front rotors....

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1519.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1519.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1520.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1520.jpg.html)

What else is there to say. That is another beautifully engineered and built car. Congratulations. :trophy-1302:

Practice make perfect I guess.

:y0!: Just waiting to see if you think you improved the car over Mayhem :popcorn2:

David Pozzi

10-17-2014, 10:01 PM

That's a great looking car. I like the aero mods.

ChuckDriver

10-17-2014, 10:03 PM

Incredible!!

sleepertime

10-18-2014, 04:43 AM

Congratulation's Mark,
Once again you have raised the bar...

Thanks for the pictures, I now have goose bumps after looking at them...

:trophy-1302:

WSSix

10-18-2014, 04:51 AM

Awesome! I really dig the shooting fire option.

Rick D

10-18-2014, 05:19 AM

Looks great Mark, but you knew that already :D

Can't wait to hear your thoughts on how it did on the track!!

nicks67ca

10-18-2014, 07:31 AM

Wow. Lets see.....

spitting fire
glowing rotors
wheels wells full of tire
headers with a blue natural finish

you had me at spitting fire!

absolutely awesome

Lous69

10-18-2014, 07:35 AM

Wow. Lets see.....

spitting fire
glowing rotors
wheels wells full of tire
headers with a blue natural finish

you had me at spitting fire!

absolutely awesome

DITTO!

glassman

10-18-2014, 07:48 AM

Wow, just simply the best '69 yet. They just keep getting better.

Such a joy and a blessing to be on this site and watching something like this get created. So much fun to watch come together.

Good luck at the OPTIMA!!!!

btw,i noticed the top w/s moulding is off, if those are the GM plastic clips, you can find the steel ones, they have much more bite, but a little less forgiving while installing.

Also, if you'd like, the lip of the molding where it meets the glass, run a minute bead of silicone (yes black silicone, not urethane in this case) between the glass and the molding. It should have enough cohesive strength to "give a touch more aero" and not lift the molding at high speed due to the air pressure.

Dewboy

10-18-2014, 04:54 PM

Here is some video I took at Gingerman 10/17/14 "Hellfire"
Sorry I'm new to video hopefully I get better at recording and posting.

http://vid1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah36/dewboy3/IMG_0261_zpsb2rhro5f.mp4
http://vid1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah36/dewboy3/IMG_0264_zpsfdspb2nc.mp4
http://vid1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah36/dewboy3/IMG_0267_zpszuixgo6o.mp4
http://vid1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah36/dewboy3/IMG_0268_zpsuehgysqc.mp4

tmadden

10-18-2014, 06:28 PM

With the flames coming out of it all the time. It is officially a Fire breathing Dragon!!!!

Vegas69

10-18-2014, 08:58 PM

Ridiculous

Spiffav8

10-18-2014, 09:04 PM

With the flames coming out of it all the time. It is officially a Fire breathing Dragon!!!!

That's the Hell Fire. :lol:

FlyNavyP3

10-19-2014, 05:50 AM

Incredible car, I especially love the deep into the corner late braking that allowed you to stick it to the 911 both into and out of the corner. Fun to watch a 69 Camaro put the screws to the "benchmark of handling" lol. Absolutely amazing!

Luke

Stielow

10-19-2014, 06:01 AM

We had a great day at Gingerman. We ran five 15 minute session with no issues. My last session it was 68 degrees and the engine ran 191 degree water and 241 degree oil temp. No power drop off due hot engine.

We were hitting 150 mph down the long straight. The car is a bit tricky to drive because it will blow the tires off at 100 mph. The shift light comes on over the raise on the long straight. I knew I was lighting the rear tire then I could see the rubber marks on the track. It will also get into a high speed tire shake if you at too greedy on the throttle.

This car is 1.5 seconds faster at Gingerman than a 2014 Z/28 that I ran there earlier this year. So on the question is Hellfire faster than a Z/28 the answer is yes.

Overlaying the speed traces from Red Devil and Mayhem you can see the delta acceleration and deceleration. It is shockingly fast in a straight line.

Some idiot on a new GT3 would not give me a point by. I'm was all over him in the sweepers and he still would not give a point by. I finally just blew by him on the straight then slammed the door in the braking zone.

All in all a great day. I have never had a first outing as good as this one. We just beat on the car all day.

Mark

WSSix

10-19-2014, 06:25 AM

That's fantastic, Mark! Really glad to know the car is performing well for you. Good luck at SEMA.

Sieg

10-19-2014, 06:26 AM

Nice! Once fine tuned this could get entertaining. :thumbsup:

glassman

10-19-2014, 07:03 AM

Some idiot on a new GT3 would not give me a point by. I'm was all over him in the sweepers and he still would not give a point by. I finally just blew by him on the straight then slammed the door in the braking zone.

Mark

Love it.

BonzoHansen

10-19-2014, 07:11 AM

As impressive as ever. Nice job by you and your team.

Rick D

10-19-2014, 07:53 AM

I guess when your on your 15th plus build you start to know what NOT to do as well as what TO do! Glad all went well Mark, can't wait to see how well you do in Vegas!!

Che70velle

10-19-2014, 09:31 AM

Nice! Once fine tuned this could get entertaining. :thumbsup:

THIS!!

mikels

10-19-2014, 10:43 AM

We had a great day at Gingerman. We ran five 15 minute session with no issues. My last session it was 68 degrees and the engine ran 191 degree water and 241 degree oil temp. No power drop off due hot engine.

One primary focus of Hellfire was to control fluid temps and avoid (if possible) or at least reduce power loss during lapping sessions. When making an effective 1100+ HP worth of heat rejection from the engine alone, then adding intercooler requirements (not to mention engine oil, trans oil, diff oil, PS fluid) - there is an incredible amount of energy to dissipate!

Mark's spent considerable effort maximizing the cooler(s) size and airflow - as well as consideration for fluid flow in systems in order to stand a chance of keeping temps under control.

And all calculations were based on prior power numbers of Mayhem (before we 'found' a few extra HP's lying around.....)

Interesting to note - Hellfire's temps on track are LOWER than what we dyno'd the engine at (we always try to run real temps representative of environment engine will operate). So even at end of lapping session, engine was still delivering at least the amount of power we measured on dyno.

As a back up plan (still a few days prior SEMA.....), we've always been curious about E85 in a Thomson 427SC engine - primarily for cooling effect. Brian had another engine for his car ready to run (near duplicate of Hellfire's engine) so we ran it on 93 octane and E85. On gas - duplicated Hellfire's engine - as it should have. On E85 - 'found' a few more!

While we want E85 for cooling, looks like we can address Mark's issue of breaking tires loose "only" up to ~100 mph at same time.

Dave

formula88

10-19-2014, 11:04 AM

Video #1

sPTtWV683HA

formula88

10-19-2014, 11:10 AM

Video #2

ZwV5URSrY6Q

Sieg

10-19-2014, 11:23 AM

Definitely not a car for mere mortals!

Want to see lap times with Hoosier's!

........and some details on the dashboard. :secret:

Insert quotes from Miata driver here:

:lol:

Winmon

10-19-2014, 11:46 AM

In the world of 1969 Camaros that car IS the space shuttle!
Great job, Mark! This is your best ride yet!!!

^^^^^ This :hail:

Sonar Chief

10-19-2014, 11:57 AM

That must be such a rush .... thanks for the videos!

Good luck at SEMA .... the other cars should beware Hellfire is coming and you know who is following!

catmanzr

10-19-2014, 08:00 PM

Hi Mark,
Just curious what degree thermostat your running in hellfire?

Thanks,
Dan

Stielow

10-20-2014, 04:03 AM

Hi Mark,
Just curious what degree thermostat your running in hellfire?

Thanks,
Dan

Stock 2014 Camaro Z/28. It is a 177 degree stat and it flows more.....makes a great hot rod part.

I wonder who designed that.... :innocent:

Mark

Rick D

10-20-2014, 05:17 AM

So one question? When are changing out the motor for the E85 version?? :innocent:

Rick D

10-20-2014, 05:42 AM

Hey Mark kind off topic but have you ever thought of trying to have a reunion of your cars? Maybe at MCACN?? That would be soooo cool!! Maybe Charley would like to try and set it up?? I'd help???

http://www.musclecarandcorvettenationals.com/

mikels

10-20-2014, 06:02 AM

So one question? When are changing out the motor for the E85 version?? :innocent:

Same motor - just need change injectors and calibration. Utilizing production flex-fuel sensor and have calibration automatically adjust for % ethanol. Would be easy update to Hellfire's engine since sized fuel system to meet flow requirements of E85.

Somewhat reaching limits of how much power can utilize. Haven't reached Mark Donahue definition; "...it will never have enough power until I can spin the wheels at the end of the straightaway in high gear.", but getting close.

Main reason looked into E85 was for PT cooling - extra power was just a bonus. Could easily detune on E85 to same power levels as gas and further reduce thermal load on cooling system.

At end of 15 minute sessions, temps are running below what was tested on dyno - so met targets for cooling system (even on gas). Granted, ambient temps were lower, but extrapolating cooling data to warmer conditions, and engine will be fine.

Might be good winter project - but there is plenty of shopping days left till SEMA.....

Dave

JMitch19

10-20-2014, 06:09 AM

So one question? When are changing out the motor for the E85 version?? :innocent:

As long as the fuel system is up the task. No engine swap should be required. It should be as simple as filling up the tank with E85 and a different calibration for the ECM. Typically E85 requires about 40% more fuel than the same HP on pump gas.

If your going to use E85 make sure you invest in an E85 tester (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/qft-36-e85?seid=srese1&gclid=CJuO2L6lu8ECFUkF7AodLRAAUA). We have seen pump E85 range from E75-E90.

*Edit - I didn't see Dave's reply because I was slow typing my post, but I'll leave my post here for the tester link.

will69camaro

10-20-2014, 06:18 AM

As long as the fuel system is up the task. No engine swap should be required. It should be as simple as filling up the tank with E85 and a different calibration for the ECM. Typically E85 requires about 40% more fuel than the same HP on pump gas.

If your going to use E85 make sure you invest in an E85 tester (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/qft-36-e85?seid=srese1&gclid=CJuO2L6lu8ECFUkF7AodLRAAUA). We have seen pump E85 range from E75-E90.

A lot of local guys run GM flex fuel sensor in conjunction with tuning so the car can automatically swap tables to run between 93 and E85. I believe Holley just released programming and harness to run that sensor as well so I will definitely be on that program. Only prob is two CTS-V pumps will only support ~1200hp on E85...

Also, this car is amazing. Saw it posted on Facebook I believe and came here to go through the thread. Always amazed with your work.

69hugger

10-20-2014, 06:29 AM

I do need to sort out how to ask people to look with their eyes and not their fingers.

Mark[/QUOTE]

Mark,
I found these molded rubber signs on E-Bay.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k513/bsternz06/mhA5v8IuL8f-KxwjCmjBnCw.jpg

I only display them when in the presence of people that "need a reminder". One on the rad support, and one kind of laying on each quarter window outer channel. They are polite, but work. Have thought of having die cut decals made, but no need for me.

HBRod

10-20-2014, 06:40 AM

Great job with the build and really enjoyed the videos. Will be great to see the car in person at Vegas and I promise not to touch the car. I think that one of your hallmarks is that in the end the car looks OEM under the hood yet is far from OEM power levels. Fortunately with the way the car looks we can judge the book by it's cover.

Rod in HB

formula88

10-20-2014, 09:58 AM

Some more track video :)

nIa-YdobiTY

camcojb

10-20-2014, 10:08 AM

Awesome! Almost like he was blocking him for a bit, but probably just kept guessing wrong on which to move to get out of Marks way. :lol:

Sieg

10-20-2014, 10:48 AM

I'll speculate that he didn't want to acknowledge the fact that a '69 Camaro had his far superior Porsche covered in every aspect. Then they start driving over their head in an unpredictable manner and nothing good can happen in that situation. I had a similar situation at T-Hill with a Cayman GTS.

Flash68

10-20-2014, 11:19 AM

Stock 2014 Camaro Z/28. It is a 177 degree stat and it flows more.....makes a great hot rod part.

I wonder who designed that.... :innocent:

Mark

:lol: :thumbsup:

Sonar Chief

10-20-2014, 11:54 AM

Awesome video ... I bet the Porsche driver WON"T post that pass on his thread:ohsnap:

Flash68

10-20-2014, 11:59 AM

Awesome video ... I bet the Porsche driver WON"T post that pass on his thread:ohsnap:

I was thinking of posting that vid over on the 6speedonline and Pelican forums.... where all the P-car guys hang out... that'd go over well. :D

Stielow

10-20-2014, 12:12 PM

I was waiting for a point by and he never gave one. So I went. He was full throttle and I passed with ease.

I had already been black flagged once that day for passing in a turn. So I was not wanting to get black flagged again.

The Porsche guy did not look very happy afterward in the pits.

I wish I knew if he was a good driver because my car was all over the GT3 in the sweepers. Judging by the one wiggle he was somewhat trying.

Mark

dontlifttoshift

10-20-2014, 12:33 PM

........and some details on the dashboard. :secret:

http://www.race-technology.com/dash2_8_940.html

I want to see the run files.

Stielow

10-20-2014, 12:45 PM

http://www.race-technology.com/dash2_8_940.html

I want to see the run files.

I can log all the CAN data (Engine Information) out of the ECM. It also allows me to set warning lights for all the critical systems:

Engine Water Temp
Oil Pressure based of engine RPM
Oil Temp
Fuel Pressure
Super Charger Air Temp
Knock
Air Flow
Boost

I like it becuse you just have shift lights and warning lights. I can watch it out of the corner of my eye and not have to scan 5 gauges for problems.

It will also display lap times if I want it to.

So far it is cool. It has an Odometer, turn signals, high beam and park brake lights built in.

Mark

glassman

10-20-2014, 02:18 PM

I was thinking of posting that vid over on the 6speedonline and Pelican forums.... where all the P-car guys hang out... that'd go over well. :D

If you dont i will.....

Sieg

10-20-2014, 03:14 PM

http://www.race-technology.com/dash2_8_940.html

I want to see the run files.

Thanks Donny :thumbsup:

PTAddict

10-20-2014, 05:27 PM

This is just an amazing car. It makes me wonder, where can it go from here?

I'm in this hobby because of you, Mark. It definitely isn't your nature to promote yourself or your role in this hobby, but the truth is that you had a clear individual vision that started with Tri Tip, and that vision engaged the minds of some other key folk, and together a movement was built. If you want to think of it in corporate terms, you were and are the Chief Engineer and Technology Officer. Jeff Smith is SVP of PR. And the CEO isn't one person, it's the community: the forums like Pro-touring and Lat-g, the many small/medium businesses like DSE, Ridetech, Wilwood, etc, and the individual craftsmen who raise the bar every year. What a force this movement has become.

For me, the Red Witch cover story in Hot Rod in '96 twisted a couple of threads together for me - the thread that never got over my first ride as a nine year old in a muscle car in 1969, and the thread that appreciates modern engineering, performance, convenience. I've followed every build closely since, and much of what I learned is reflected in my latest car.

I think the most interesting thing I take away is your approach: build, learn, refine. The biggest mistakes I've made, and that I see others have made, are to shoot for the moon before achieving orbit. Your approach always seems to be: Let's start with what is proven. Decide what are the priorities for improvement. Take risks only for the highest priority items, and then research those risks as thoroughly as possible. Build and test in the real world. Rinse and repeat. It's a formula we would all do well to follow - at least if real world results are the criteria. If I'm not mistaken, it's the formula that ultimately built this ultimate car.

Best of luck at OUSCI!

Scott

jlwdvm

10-20-2014, 06:39 PM

Sieg

10-20-2014, 07:35 PM

"1.5 seconds faster than the Z/28".....I think that might say more about the Z/28 than Hellfire! I'm thinking about getting one to compliment my '13 Boss 302! Awesome
Compliment or embarass? :D

Sorry couldn't resist the opening. :sieg:

DOOM

10-20-2014, 07:41 PM

Best video I have ever seen love it !!!!!!

Vince@Meanstreets

10-20-2014, 07:54 PM

Stielow

10-21-2014, 04:56 AM

Compliment or embarass? :D

Sorry couldn't resist the opening. :sieg:

A Gen 5 Camaro Z/28 is a full sorted track weapon. We spent 3 years dialing that car in and it is on awesome 60 treadwear tires. It had moths in the wind tunnel to get the areo balance correct, we tested it on 8 race tracks, we tested 8 different tires on it, It has a state of the art performance traction management system on it and the ABS calibration is matched perfectly to the car.

On my first real track event with Hellfire to be faster than the Z/28 on 300 tread wear tires is doing something. I'm swapping to 200 tread weartires, recalibrating the ABS, and make a small change to the springs for this weekend. I expect the delta between the Z/28 and Hellfire to get greater.

Everyone wants to believe their old muscle car will outrun the late model stuff. If you want to go fast for cheap buy a late model car.

If I put half of the money I have in my car in a C-6 Z06, GT3 or a GTR it would be a whipping fast. Way faster than Hellfire.

On a side note I don't want a Z06 or a GTR, I do kind a want a GT3. LOL.

I do this because to get a '69 Camaro to go this fast is fun and interesting.

I like going to car shows, SEMA and doing the Optima Shoot Outs.

It is just physics. They have better aerodynamic, better CG, better track width and most come with ABS. So take a ZO6 and gut it and you have a 2900 lb track car for about $35K. Or better yet get a C-5 Z06 for about $25K. Or you can by a POS '69 Camaro for about $12K and pour about a $100K+ into and 3 years of your life and be close to as fast as a stock Vette.

I do this because I love to and the engineering challenge is fun.

Mark

Sieg

10-21-2014, 05:46 AM

Awesome insight!

I can't thank you enough for what you have added to the overall experience of owning a 1st Gen Camaro. :thumbsup:

kwhizz

10-21-2014, 06:03 AM

Mark...........Freak'in Awsum!!!!

GregWeld

10-21-2014, 07:28 AM

Well said Mark.

My stupid little Lotus with it's 1.8 liter STOCK Toyota motor... <blown> and it's little itty bitty baby tires catches and passes well driven ZR1's without blinking an eye... Sorted out track cars seem to be hook to a fire hydrant. But it's just not nearly as much fun as the old '65 Mustang. Don't know why - can't explain it - it's just not. Maybe because it's TOO easy.... IDK.

Love your builds and insight. You? Not so much. See ya at SEMA.

Signed,
Pitbitch

jlwdvm

10-21-2014, 07:34 AM

Compliment or embarass? :D

Sorry couldn't resist the opening. :sieg:

I guess I meant it as a compliment to both cars. On one hand you have a new car with the resources of GM behind it that blows away everything in its class and some that are above its class. Then you have Hellfire that has twice the horsepower, but is a 45 year old car....that will probably blow away everything in its class, and some that are "above" its class (Porsche for example)!

wiedemab

10-21-2014, 07:42 AM

I do this because I love to and the engineering challenge is fun.

Mark

I like that reason much better than - --"We are stupid". I do miss how easy my C5 was though

Sieg

10-21-2014, 08:20 AM

I guess I meant it as a compliment to both cars. On one hand you have a new car with the resources of GM behind it that blows away everything in its class and some that are above its class. Then you have Hellfire that has twice the horsepower, but is a 45 year old car....that will probably blow away everything in its class, and some that are "above" its class (Porsche for example)!

I was just a sarcastic tease (bad personal trait at times) that said........what engineers like Mark and others have brought to the marketplace for 'everyday' consumers is very impressive......and then there's the potential of the C7 Z06!

No matter the brand, American or Euro, the performance levels of new and old cars right now is amazing!

If I had to do it all over again I'd have pursued an automotive engineering career. The rewards of seeing a car like the new Z/28 come to market has to be a priceless experience.

syborg tt

10-21-2014, 08:37 AM

Mark,

I was going to type up pretty much what Scott just wrote but honestly he said it much better then I could have ever said it so please pretend I just wrote what Scott did. I will add this you and your team are truly inspirational.

This is just an amazing car. It makes me wonder, where can it go from here?

I'm in this hobby because of you, Mark. It definitely isn't your nature to promote yourself or your role in this hobby, but the truth is that you had a clear individual vision that started with Tri Tip, and that vision engaged the minds of some other key folk, and together a movement was built. If you want to think of it in corporate terms, you were and are the Chief Engineer and Technology Officer. Jeff Smith is SVP of PR. And the CEO isn't one person, it's the community: the forums like Pro-touring and Lat-g, the many small/medium businesses like DSE, Ridetech, Wilwood, etc, and the individual craftsmen who raise the bar every year. What a force this movement has become.

For me, the Red Witch cover story in Hot Rod in '96 twisted a couple of threads together for me - the thread that never got over my first ride as a nine year old in a muscle car in 1969, and the thread that appreciates modern engineering, performance, convenience. I've followed every build closely since, and much of what I learned is reflected in my latest car.

I think the most interesting thing I take away is your approach: build, learn, refine. The biggest mistakes I've made, and that I see others have made, are to shoot for the moon before achieving orbit. Your approach always seems to be: Let's start with what is proven. Decide what are the priorities for improvement. Take risks only for the highest priority items, and then research those risks as thoroughly as possible. Build and test in the real world. Rinse and repeat. It's a formula we would all do well to follow - at least if real world results are the criteria. If I'm not mistaken, it's the formula that ultimately built this ultimate car.

Best of luck at OUSCI!

Scott

RussMurco

10-21-2014, 09:11 AM

If I had to do it all over again I'd have pursued an automotive engineering career. The rewards of seeing a car like the new Z/28 come to market has to be a priceless experience.

X2
The early 80's, when I was figuring out what I was doing after high school, certainly didn't inspire me to go into automotive engineering. Too bad I didn't have the insight I should have!

89 RS

10-21-2014, 09:52 PM

Great stuff! Thanks for sharing the videos, knowledge, and experiences...can't beat this site!

DEIGuy38

10-22-2014, 10:10 PM

So take a ZO6 and gut it and you have a 2900 lb track car for about $35K. Or better yet get a C-5 Z06 for about $25K. Or you can by a POS '69 Camaro for about $12K and pour about a $100K+ into and 3 years of your life and be close to as fast as a stock Vette.Mark

But then your left with a gutted vette that Charlie probably wouldn't want to buy:lmao: Awesome car Mark wish I could be at SEMA this year to see it.

Stielow

10-23-2014, 04:54 AM

paulk68

10-23-2014, 05:01 AM

The Finspeed guys made me some cool center caps.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20141021_194536_zpse96ba1f9.jpg

I'm heading back to Gingerman Saturady for the last shake down.

If all goes well the car ships Oct. 29.

Mark

The wheel color looks alot lighter in this picture than others I have seen.

Rick D

10-23-2014, 06:49 AM

Thats a nice touch for sure!! Good luck this weekend, hope it just keeps getting faster and faster!!

syborg tt

10-23-2014, 08:41 AM

The center caps look great.

Quick question what lug nuts are you using ?

The Finspeed guys made me some cool center caps.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20141021_194536_zpse96ba1f9.jpg

I'm heading back to Gingerman Saturady for the last shake down.

If all goes well the car ships Oct. 29.

Mark

formula88

10-23-2014, 10:05 AM

The wheel color looks alot lighter in this picture than others I have seen.

Maybe lighter from his camera flash.

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1551.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1551.jpg.html)

OLDFLM

10-23-2014, 12:41 PM

Maybe lighter from his camera flash.

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1551.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1551.jpg.html)

:thankyou: My new wallpaper at work!

frojoe

10-23-2014, 12:50 PM

The Finspeed guys made me some cool center caps.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20141021_194536_zpse96ba1f9.jpg

I'm heading back to Gingerman Saturady for the last shake down.

If all goes well the car ships Oct. 29.

Mark

Are the lugnuts knurled on the ends specifically to aid in hand-threading before tightening? If so.. holy attention to detail!

RussMurco

10-23-2014, 01:44 PM

I think Mark's lug nuts are getting more attention than my entire car ever will!!! :lol:

rickpaw

10-24-2014, 05:39 AM

The center caps look great.

Quick question what lug nuts are you using ?

+1. Would like some information on the lug nuts as well.

formula88

10-24-2014, 01:49 PM

Sieg

10-24-2014, 02:46 PM

This has the potential of one great commute! :thumbsup:

I'd say shiney is over-rated but Hellfire appears to be somewhat of an exception to the rule. :D

syborg tt

10-24-2014, 03:19 PM

Is it 5 pm yet?

I don't know about the owner of the shiny red car, but I'm looking forward to the drive home.

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/20141024_095057.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/20141024_095057.jpg.html)

Dam it Choices choices I am so torn !

Rick D

10-24-2014, 03:52 PM

Stielow

10-24-2014, 07:07 PM

+1. Would like some information on the lug nuts as well.

Here you go...

http://www.amazon.com/Muteki-32906B-Series-Black-1-5mm/dp/B004QHOOE6/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_10?ie=UTF8&refRID=1NBB9547PM7RBYHMH7JM

rickpaw

10-25-2014, 05:45 AM

Here you go...

http://www.amazon.com/Muteki-32906B-Series-Black-1-5mm/dp/B004QHOOE6/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_10?ie=UTF8&refRID=1NBB9547PM7RBYHMH7JM

Ah, thanks Mark.

jlwdvm

10-25-2014, 08:03 AM

Just ordered a set to go with my V40's for that Trans Am look. You don't feel the need for longer studs?

Sieg

10-25-2014, 08:45 AM

Just ordered a set to go with my V40's for that Trans Am look. You don't feel the need for longer studs?
They just add unnecessary weight.

formula88

10-26-2014, 07:50 AM

Stuart Adams

10-26-2014, 07:52 AM

Unbelievable pics.

formula88

10-26-2014, 08:24 AM

After GingerMan, Hellfire stopped by Dutchboys for a little buff and shine prior to SEMA.

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1640.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1640.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1668.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1668.jpg.html)

The photo below doesn't do the reflection in the quarter panel justice. Their work and attention to detail is amazing. Dutchboys have mad skills!!

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1678.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1678.jpg.html)

Sonar Chief

10-26-2014, 08:56 AM

Those are great pixs ... drive it like you stole it and then polish her up!!!! :king:

214Chevy

10-26-2014, 01:02 PM

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1581.jpg[/URL]

Man, look at those front disc brakes....

glassman

10-26-2014, 01:16 PM

That last photo, i kept thinking that the line was from a clear bra or something, but its actually the power lines from across the street, yep, thats pretty buffed.

sleepertime

10-26-2014, 02:11 PM

Yeah it will do in a pinch....:sarcasm_smiley:

To be honest it is a work of art...

:king:

Thanks, for the updates...
:flag2:

tubbed69

10-26-2014, 02:18 PM

Very cool pics of an awesome car:king:

Stielow

10-28-2014, 02:11 PM

Hellfire was back at GingerMan yesterday for more tire and chassis testing.

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1567.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/HF%20at%20Gingerman%202014/DSC_1567.jpg.html)

I had a great outing on Saturday. This project has seemed harder than some of the others.

Part of what I was doing with all this track tests was working on what tires to use.

I tried the following tires:

295/35R18 front 335/30R18 rear Rival
285/35R18 front 345/30R19 rear Michelin Super Sport
315/30R18 front 335/30R18 rear Rival

The 315 - 335 Rivals were the best for balance and forward bite. The Rivals are terrible without a heat cycle.

Again this car has exceeded expectations. I know we added a lot of cooling but being able to run a 20 minute session flat out with no issues is awesome.

On Gordon’s second photo you can see me pushing a BMW race car into turn one and the smoke you see is him locking the brakes up. I was pushing on a lot of race cars that day. It is entertaining to me to run down guys on race tires in the turns. I know I can kill most cars in the straights but the guys on 40 tread wear Hoosiers should be faster.

This is the best car I have ever built. Fast, pitchable, predictable and a lot of consistent power. The car is as strong on lap one as lap 10. For people who have built high power cars keeping them cool is a big challenge. The other big take away is if you keep the fluid cool they don’t leak also.

It has been a rough summer finishing this car and I could not have done it without some great help from good friends.

The car ships tomorrow and Sled Alley is helping me finish up the decal install.

If you’re at SEMA stop by and say hi and I’ll show you my latest project.

The Lateral – G community is great and I enjoy interacting with this group. Thanks for all the posts and support over the build. It is a great group to keep me motivvated to push on.

Thanks Mark

GregWeld

10-28-2014, 02:17 PM

Mark - I could have done this via email but will just attempt here... Did you get the paddock parking layout for LVMS yet? If not I'll email it. My rig is 65' long -- and they have "rules/spaces" for rigs up to 75' in certain spots... but if we want the big azz awning out then there are some spaces assigned to rigs with large awnings. Assume that where you'd want me - but thought I'd ask in advance.

waynieZ

10-28-2014, 02:26 PM

"This is the best car I have ever built." Now that is saying something!
Mark did you ever test the Michelin Super Sport against the Michelin PS2's is so was there much of a difference? I love the picture with the front rotors glowing.

LS7 Z/28

10-28-2014, 04:08 PM

The Lateral – G community is great and I enjoy interacting with this group. Thanks for all the posts and support over the build. It is a great group to keep me motivvated to push on.

You inspire all of us Mark. For every person who posts something in your thread there are probably 20 other people just watching, learning and just trying to understand all of the complexities of your design and engineering. You give us something to strive towards, even if our builds are polar opposites. You make us all want to be better.

You're the man. :hail:

frankv11

10-28-2014, 04:16 PM

You inspire all of us Mark. For every person who posts something in your thread there are probably 20 other people just watching, learning and just trying to understand all of the complexities of your design and engineering. You give us something to strive towards, even if our builds are polar opposites. You make us all want to be better.

You're the man. :hail:

X2
I wish could have gone to SEMA just to see this car and maybe get a picture with the man.
Definitely an inspiration

Flash68

10-28-2014, 11:27 PM

Mark, you are the man... thanks for the sharing and feedback... truly invaluable to so many.

You really allow that Weld guy to be in your camp? That's got to be worth about minus 5 Optima points in some category...

Good luck out there. :bigun2:

LXSS350

10-29-2014, 05:29 AM

Simply Brilliant what else can you say the engineering, fit and finish is a credit to all involved. What is the actual zr1 clutch stack height? I am just doing an LS9/Magnum combo and am in the midst of doing the math. Pretty sure the ZR1 bell-housing height is 6.440

Black93GT

10-29-2014, 10:21 AM

Here you go...

http://www.amazon.com/Muteki-32906B-Series-Black-1-5mm/dp/B004QHOOE6/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_10?ie=UTF8&refRID=1NBB9547PM7RBYHMH7JM

Funny... I've been searching for that style of lugnut and previously looked at those ones. I didn't know much more than what the ad said, questioned the quality and was just about to order the same style from Gorilla.

But if its good enough for Mark's car then it should be fine for my bucket of bolts.

PTAddict

10-30-2014, 08:40 AM

The 315 - 335 Rivals were the best for balance and forward bite. The Rivals are terrible without a heat cycle.

Awesome pictures of an awesome car. Really amazing all the way around.

We found the same thing with the Rivals - mine arrived 2 days before the Portland Ultimate Street Car, after a 6 month back order, and we didn't have time to heat cycle them. They were slippery as snot in the AutoX and Speed Stop, and finally came into their own by the 3rd track session.

Did the 315s up front fit cleanly under the Anvil fenders? I've been eyeing those fenders but don't really want my car back in body and paint jail unless it's really worth it ...

Once again, good luck at SEMA and OUCSI. Wish I could be there to see it.

Stielow

10-30-2014, 11:33 AM

Awesome pictures of an awesome car. Really amazing all the way around.

We found the same thing with the Rivals - mine arrived 2 days before the Portland Ultimate Street Car, after a 6 month back order, and we didn't have time to heat cycle them. They were slippery as snot in the AutoX and Speed Stop, and finally came into their own by the 3rd track session.

Did the 315s up front fit cleanly under the Anvil fenders? I've been eyeing those fenders but don't really want my car back in body and paint jail unless it's really worth it ...

Once again, good luck at SEMA and OUCSI. Wish I could be there to see it.

I have the 315 on a 10.5 and the fit great. Side wall is square. With 1.75 degrees of camber and the car fairly low the tires do not rub at all. I was hesitant to use an 11 because I thought I would have a hard rub. I might try an 11 later.

Over all I’m happy with the Anvil stuff. They do require a bit more body work than a steel OE fender.

I took my new Rival to a church parking lot and did LH and RH donuts until they stuck. Seemed to work. The kids next to the church liked it. The cop not so much.....:shakehead:

The car is shipped to SEMA so no more tuning.

Thanks for all the support.

Mark

ArisESQ

10-30-2014, 11:47 AM

I took my new Rival to a church parking lot and did LH and RH donuts until they stuck. Seemed to work. The kids next to the church liked it. The cop not so much.....:shakehead:

Mark

Next time I get caught doing donuts in the church parking lot I'll just explain that I'm "tuning my car." :idea:

Can't wait to see how you do at OUSCI - congrats on building an incredible car!

syborg tt

10-30-2014, 11:47 AM

I took my new Rival to a church parking lot and did LH and RH donuts until they stuck. Seemed to work. The kids next to the church liked it. The cop not so much.....:shakehead: Mark

Can you imagine if this was you it should would make for a good story at Sema ?

Dad facing Charges after doing donuts in Parking lot

http://www.wchstv.com/news/features/around-the-web/police-said-ontario-dad-facing-charges-after-doing-donuts-in-parking-lot-.shtml#.VFKHP_ldVZs

PTAddict

10-30-2014, 12:49 PM

I took my new Rival to a church parking lot and did LH and RH donuts until they stuck. Seemed to work. The kids next to the church liked it. The cop not so much.....:shakehead:

LOL.

"I'm heat cycling my tires to be ready for the Optima Challenge" is probably one of the more original excuses the cop has heard.

Bow Tie 67

10-31-2014, 05:27 PM

Simply stunning, " engineering marvel "

Quick question at the power levels of this current car and the ability to overpower the tires at will, have you hit the point of of diminishing returns?

Would full blown racing rubber harness this power level?

Vince@Meanstreets

10-31-2014, 10:24 PM

Next time I get caught doing donuts in the church parking lot I'll just explain that I'm "tuning my car." :idea:

Can't wait to see how you do at OUSCI - congrats on building an incredible car!
and your on a mission from god.

awesome build

CarlC

10-31-2014, 11:17 PM

Okay, I'll bite. Why 177*F thermostat for the Z28?

Very nicely executed Mark.

Stielow

11-01-2014, 04:51 AM

Okay, I'll bite. Why 177*F thermostat for the Z28?

Very nicely executed Mark.

The Z/28 thermostat is a lower temp and higher flow thermostat. We wanted to make the Z/28 robust for track use and we wanted more coolant flow for better power train cooling. Early on in the program we were undersized for power train cooling and the thermostat in conjunction with many other parts keeps the Z/28 cool.

I have learned a lot from my projects and from work. Having a car that will run hard on the track without overheating is great. A side benefit is nothing leaks. It is a great feeling not to be also watching the gauges out of the corner of your eye.

This project also has a Race Technology dash that allows me to monitor the can engine data, log it and set warning functions. I went from a gauge watcher to just using the warning lights.

It all works great.

Mark

69hugger

11-01-2014, 05:04 AM

Mark,
Will that thermostat work in a BBC, or is the size different for the LS motors?

Stielow

11-01-2014, 09:07 AM

Mark,
Will that thermostat work in a BBC, or is the size different for the LS motors?

Sorry no totally different.

Roberts68

11-01-2014, 10:51 AM

Mark, not to echo everyone else but I will to a degree.

Even though there are a bunch of great people with fantastic cars going and we wish them all the best there is something to be said for betting the best horse in the race.

This household will be cheering you on. I wish we could see it live instead of waiting until it comes out on Dish.

Give 'em Hell and GOOD LUCK!

69hugger

11-01-2014, 01:52 PM

I figured so. Thanks for the response.

65 347

11-01-2014, 10:06 PM

Mark
The car looks outstanding! Cant wait to see it this week. The paint is stunning.

Mike

frojoe

11-02-2014, 01:22 PM

I had Dewitt’s radiator custom make me a radiator core and intercooler core. The cores nest together to make an efficient package. The assembled the cores with tanks and mounted them togther. I had it made 23 inch tall and 24 inched wide to fit a Cadillac SRX turbo fan and shroud. After a long conversation with C&R they supplied a 10 kW oil cooler for the end tank. Dewitt also built in the power steering and transmission coolers. It maybe a bit overkill but I want to get the temps under control on the new car.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/SouthfieldCity-20130124-00024_zpsded7cfa0.jpg

The top two coolers are power steering and transmission. The lower cooler is the engine oil cooler. Using oil to water coolers it will help heat and cool the oil.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG-20130118-00005_zps7ba89dea.jpg

Mark

Mark, what is the fan shroud (ei fan blade leading edge) gap from the radiator core? You quote 850W heat rejection for the fan, but is there an equivalent vacuum or airflow (cfm) value that you can attach to that heat rejection rate? Also lastly, what is the core thickness of the radiator?

Thanks!
Joe

mikels

11-02-2014, 05:45 PM

Mark, what is the fan shroud (ei fan blade leading edge) gap from the radiator core? You quote 850W heat rejection for the fan, but is there an equivalent vacuum or airflow (cfm) value that you can attach to that heat rejection rate? Also lastly, what is the core thickness of the radiator?

Thanks!
Joe

OEM fans are not typically rated in CFM. 850W is simply (volts x amps).

Obviously, that is not enough to design to for cooling requirements, so a volume flow rate vs. pressure drop is required - this is where many fans fall short as they are rated in CFM @ 0 (zero) pressure drop - which is not how you are using them (And some have dramatic loss in flow with pressure drop).

The SRX turbo fan flows:
~1.0 m^3/sec @ 300 Pa pressure drop (2119 CFM @ 1.2"H2O)
~1.5 m^3/sec @ 225 Pa pressure drop (3178 CFM @ 0.9"H2O)

So pressure decrease of 25% results in flow increase of 50%. Now you can see why flow curve (mass flow vs. pressure drop) is what you are really looking for in fan specifications.

If you extrapolate flow curve for SRX turbo fan, flow @ 0 pressure drop is on the order of ~2.5 M^3/sec (5300 CFM). (not 100% accurate as flow rates become non-linear at very high and low pressure drops)

You really need to know what the pressure drop is through your cores to determine flow rate of fans (that combined with heat exchanger efficiency will give you kW heat rejection).

BTW- Modern high-efficiency cores are WAY more efficient than old-school designs - so not as simple as looking at core thickness, size, etc..

Dave

clill

11-02-2014, 06:11 PM

Jesus fricken Christ Mikels.....speak English....

mikels

11-02-2014, 06:14 PM

Jesus fricken Christ Mikels.....speak English....

OK Charlie:

Big fan move sh**load air!

Dave

Sieg

11-02-2014, 06:45 PM

Jesus fricken Christ Mikels.....speak English....

OK Charlie:

Big fan move sh**load air!

Dave

Thanks for a good laugh Gents! :thumbsup:

Che70velle

11-02-2014, 06:52 PM

Have to admit, that's comedy!
Dave, thanks for this info. I'm gonna file this, as I've never found this info anywhere, and I'd say with your credentials, your a trustworthy source of info.

SlowProgress

11-02-2014, 08:27 PM

Funny !!

waynieZ

11-02-2014, 08:48 PM

Jesus fricken Christ Mikels.....speak English....

Charlie I think you read my mind! :confused18:

frojoe

11-03-2014, 12:02 AM

OEM fans are not typically rated in CFM. 850W is simply (volts x amps).

Obviously, that is not enough to design to for cooling requirements, so a volume flow rate vs. pressure drop is required - this is where many fans fall short as they are rated in CFM @ 0 (zero) pressure drop - which is not how you are using them (And some have dramatic loss in flow with pressure drop).

The SRX turbo fan flows:
~1.0 m^3/sec @ 300 Pa pressure drop (2119 CFM @ 1.2"H2O)
~1.5 m^3/sec @ 225 Pa pressure drop (3178 CFM @ 0.9"H2O)

So pressure decrease of 25% results in flow increase of 50%. Now you can see why flow curve (mass flow vs. pressure drop) is what you are really looking for in fan specifications.

If you extrapolate flow curve for SRX turbo fan, flow @ 0 pressure drop is on the order of ~2.5 M^3/sec (5300 CFM). (not 100% accurate as flow rates become non-linear at very high and low pressure drops)

You really need to know what the pressure drop is through your cores to determine flow rate of fans (that combined with heat exchanger efficiency will give you kW heat rejection).

BTW- Modern high-efficiency cores are WAY more efficient than old-school designs - so not as simple as looking at core thickness, size, etc..

Dave

Thanks Dave, this data is literally exactly what I was hoping for, but being the internet, was not expecting it!

I was also asking for core thickness as a reference for the rough resistance that the fan would be working against statically (not including added resistance of IC in front). Obviously dynamically there are added factors under speed such as ram air effect on some of the frontal area as well as pressure differential across the "cooling stack" due to chin spoiler, etc... just looking for a rough idea of if it's a 2", 3.5", or 17.623578" thick core.

Cheers,
Joe

clill

11-03-2014, 06:17 AM

I'm pretty sure it's a 17.623579" thick core.:peepwall:

clill

11-07-2014, 10:00 PM

What could possibly go wrong.

clill

11-07-2014, 10:05 PM

......

Swain

11-07-2014, 10:10 PM

So we know the seats are on sliders and not fixed lol.

Vince@Meanstreets

11-07-2014, 11:47 PM

what ever you do don't rear end Bluballs.

Vince@Meanstreets

11-07-2014, 11:48 PM

So we know the seats are on sliders and not fixed lol.

I know, look a tall that leg room in the back. LOL

GregWeld

11-07-2014, 11:50 PM

Hey! I got it home to the trailer at LVMS all the way from downtown Las Vegas... and never got over 4,000 RPMS.

I was really the most impressed with the headlights! Holy moly those things are like having two suns with reflectors behind them.

Rick D

11-08-2014, 07:06 AM

WSSix

11-08-2014, 07:33 AM

So Greg, is it as docile and liveable as Mark described? Glad you guys are out having fun!

DOOM

11-08-2014, 07:36 AM

Che70velle

11-08-2014, 07:38 AM

So you have Marks car and your most impressed with the headlites??

This?????
Wait, what!?!? Come on Weld!

DOOM

11-08-2014, 07:40 AM

......

Well it looks like we know where Hellfire is going when Mark is done with it!:G-Dub:

waynieZ

11-08-2014, 08:00 AM

A fitting destination if it could happen.

WSSix

11-08-2014, 04:39 PM

Well it looks like we know where Hellfire is going when Mark is done with it!:G-Dub:

Well of course. I mean Charlies does have impeccable taste after all.

PTAddict

11-08-2014, 05:05 PM

OEM fans are not typically rated in CFM. 850W is simply (volts x amps).

Obviously, that is not enough to design to for cooling requirements, so a volume flow rate vs. pressure drop is required - this is where many fans fall short as they are rated in CFM @ 0 (zero) pressure drop - which is not how you are using them (And some have dramatic loss in flow with pressure drop).

The SRX turbo fan flows:
~1.0 m^3/sec @ 300 Pa pressure drop (2119 CFM @ 1.2"H2O)
~1.5 m^3/sec @ 225 Pa pressure drop (3178 CFM @ 0.9"H2O)

So pressure decrease of 25% results in flow increase of 50%. Now you can see why flow curve (mass flow vs. pressure drop) is what you are really looking for in fan specifications.

If you extrapolate flow curve for SRX turbo fan, flow @ 0 pressure drop is on the order of ~2.5 M^3/sec (5300 CFM). (not 100% accurate as flow rates become non-linear at very high and low pressure drops)

You really need to know what the pressure drop is through your cores to determine flow rate of fans (that combined with heat exchanger efficiency will give you kW heat rejection).

BTW- Modern high-efficiency cores are WAY more efficient than old-school designs - so not as simple as looking at core thickness, size, etc..

Dave

Dave,

As a guy with an engineering background myself, I greatly appreciate your analysis of the decisions that go into building a car like this. There's a big difference between building cars that promise on paper to be great real world performers, and cars that can back up the promise. And that difference in large part comes down to the kind of experience and knowledge that you and Mark represent. Thanks much for sharing.

The fan data is very helpful for me - I'm looking to upgrade the track day cooling on my car and I think airflow is one of the major areas for improvement. Trying to figure out the part numbers for the SRX fan, is this it?

http://www.gmpartsnow.com/auto-parts/2011/cadillac/srx/performance-trim/2-8l-v6-gas-engine/belts-and-cooling-cat/cooling-fan-clutch-and-motor-scat

And do you happen to have the part number for the fan controller? I'm switching over to a GM E38 controller, and am very familiar with HP tuners and the PWM fan control settings, so I think that part is straightforward ...

Again, thanks for your contributions.

Scott

Ns RS

11-08-2014, 05:25 PM

So you have Marks car and your most impressed with the headlites??

Mr. Magoo needs all the help he can get!! :bump:

mikels

11-08-2014, 06:26 PM

Dave,

As a guy with an engineering background myself, I greatly appreciate your analysis of the decisions that go into building a car like this. There's a big difference between building cars that promise on paper to be great real world performers, and cars that can back up the promise. And that difference in large part comes down to the kind of experience and knowledge that you and Mark represent. Thanks much for sharing.

The fan data is very helpful for me - I'm looking to upgrade the track day cooling on my car and I think airflow is one of the major areas for improvement. Trying to figure out the part numbers for the SRX fan, is this it?

http://www.gmpartsnow.com/auto-parts/2011/cadillac/srx/performance-trim/2-8l-v6-gas-engine/belts-and-cooling-cat/cooling-fan-clutch-and-motor-scat

And do you happen to have the part number for the fan controller? I'm switching over to a GM E38 controller, and am very familiar with HP tuners and the PWM fan control settings, so I think that part is straightforward ...

Again, thanks for your contributions.

Scott

SRX turbo fan part number is 25931645 as you show. PWM controller is built in to fan motor - so no separate module like Corvette fan.

Max PWM duty cycle is 90% positive polarity @ 100 Hz (need this for calibration). Size wiring & fuse appropriately - 64 AMPS peak.

First used this fan on Red Devil and dropped coolant and oil temps ~10F just by changing to this fan from 400W Corvette fan.

Dave

PTAddict

11-08-2014, 07:43 PM

SRX turbo fan part number is 25931645 as you show. PWM controller is built in to fan motor - so no separate module like Corvette fan.

Max PWM duty cycle is 90% positive polarity @ 100 Hz (need this for calibration). Size wiring & fuse appropriately - 64 AMPS peak.

First used this fan on Red Devil and dropped coolant and oil temps ~10F just by changing to this fan from 400W Corvette fan.

Dave

Thanks much for the prompt response! 10F is a significant improvement when you're at or beyond the edge already. I'm ordering this fan tomorrow.

Waiting to hear how Mark is doing at OUSCI, as I'm sure you are too.

Thanks,

Scott

GregWeld

11-08-2014, 09:40 PM

As Charley would say "You Suck" :thumbsup:

Also as Charley would say....... "SO?"

LOL

So Greg, is it as docile and liveable as Mark described? Glad you guys are out having fun!

We did the swap once again tonight -- as this is much easier for Mark to not have to get in any later than is already playing out with this event. The car is far safer tucked away in the trailer at the track than in a hotel parking lot in Vegas where it might not survive the night!

Second night of driving - this time from the Shelby headquarters event back to LVMS... so now I'm not nearly as nervous driving someone else's baby.. and I get to enjoy the pure pleasure this car is. Smooth - powerful sound... real world pro-touring... by that I mean I would be HAPPY to drive this car to TEXAS! Tonight! Fire it up and cruise! All the sensual pleasures are there - stereo - great seats - SOLID well mannered road car. Power you can sense and feel in the throttle - but the clutch is silk as are the transmission and the brakes! Oh man this beast has great feel in the brakes.

Here's the deal -- My Mustang feels and drives like a race car.... I would not want to drive it anywhere but on a track. This car --- this is a car that you want to drive..... To me - it's the real deal of what people are trying to get when they're building a pro-touring car. This car on Hot Rod Power Tour would just be unimaginably good!

So you have Marks car and your most impressed with the headlites??

I'm old... okay!?!?! Good headlights are important! LOL

GregWeld

11-08-2014, 09:45 PM

What could possibly go wrong.

Why does your phone camera make me look so short and fat?

Sieg

11-08-2014, 10:36 PM

So you have Marks car and your most impressed with the headlites??
Actually the under dash LED access lighting is very functional too!

Rick D

11-09-2014, 04:28 AM

Also as Charley would say....... "SO?"

LOL

We did the swap once again tonight -- as this is much easier for Mark to not have to get in any later than is already playing out with this event. The car is far safer tucked away in the trailer at the track than in a hotel parking lot in Vegas where it might not survive the night!

Second night of driving - this time from the Shelby headquarters event back to LVMS... so now I'm not nearly as nervous driving someone else's baby.. and I get to enjoy the pure pleasure this car is. Smooth - powerful sound... real world pro-touring... by that I mean I would be HAPPY to drive this car to TEXAS! Tonight! Fire it up and cruise! All the sensual pleasures are there - stereo - great seats - SOLID well mannered road car. Power you can sense and feel in the throttle - but the clutch is silk as are the transmission and the brakes! Oh man this beast has great feel in the brakes.

Here's the deal -- My Mustang feels and drives like a race car.... I would not want to drive it anywhere but on a track. This car --- this is a car that you want to drive..... To me - it's the real deal of what people are trying to get when they're building a pro-touring car. This car on Hot Rod Power Tour would just be unimaginably good!

I'm old... okay!?!?! Good headlights are important! LOL

I'm not that old and I'm right there with you :lol:

Also what you are saying above about how nice it drives and you would drive on Power Tour, does that mean when Mark goes to sell this one Charley will have to out bid you :lol: of coarse we know he will but still will be fun!!

clill

11-09-2014, 05:11 AM

Bryan O

11-09-2014, 06:40 AM

...I would be HAPPY to drive this car to TEXAS! Tonight!...

Take a rest then cruise it out to Scottsdale GG next weekend.

Pleeeeeease. Pretty please with sugar on top.

SlowProgress

11-09-2014, 06:52 AM

... X2

Vince@Meanstreets

11-09-2014, 07:31 AM

Apparently Greg really is getting comfortable driving the car. After the swap, me Mark and Laura are driving on the freeway north towards the hotel when Mark says "Hey, there goes my car!" As Greg goes bombing by us. Was kinda weird for Mark to see his car pass us unexpectedly

I bet that was a strange feeling. Sort of like letting your daughter go on her first date. "she better be in one piece when she gets back" hammer click

Yeah, the odds with Weld are better than locked up in a trailer in a parking lot at Caesar's.

GregWeld

11-09-2014, 07:58 AM

Apparently Greg really is getting comfortable driving the car. After the swap, me Mark and Laura are driving on the freeway north towards the hotel when Mark says "Hey, there goes my car!" As Greg goes bombing by us. Was kinda weird for Mark to see his car pass us unexpectedly

I only passed you because the Viper wanted to race once we hit Las Vegas Blvd (by the way, it was just as weird seeing you in my Jeep). Does your head hit the roof?

SlowProgress

11-09-2014, 09:14 AM

SRX turbo fan part number is 25931645 as you show. PWM controller is built in to fan motor - so no separate module like Corvette fan.

Max PWM duty cycle is 90% positive polarity @ 100 Hz (need this for calibration). Size wiring & fuse appropriately - 64 AMPS peak.

First used this fan on Red Devil and dropped coolant and oil temps ~10F just by changing to this fan from 400W Corvette fan.

Dave

Great information. Would someone copy this over to the PWM cooling fan thread so we don't forget where it is ! Ok, so I don't forget where it is !!

Chevy Kid

11-09-2014, 10:57 AM

So Greg, is it as docile and liveable as Mark described? Glad you guys are out having fun!

We watched all the Optima cars roll out on Friday. There were some radical and loud cars. Marks car sounded docile compared to others. Very unassuming, but we know what's really going on under the hood. Can't help but be impressed with a car that does it all.

Tim

WSSix

11-09-2014, 07:22 PM

Apparently Greg really is getting comfortable driving the car. After the swap, me Mark and Laura are driving on the freeway north towards the hotel when Mark says "Hey, there goes my car!" As Greg goes bombing by us. Was kinda weird for Mark to see his car pass us unexpectedly

Now that's a funny story.

Greg and Tim, thanks for relaying your impressions of the car. I love it and think it's the pinnacle of pro-touring. Of course, I think each of his builds are. I doubt I'll ever see any of them in person though so I appreciate your responses.