Camaro XV

[GregWeld]

I already sold the Mule and next up is Jackass. I'm trying to ween myself off of Steelow...cars :-)



Mister Steelow to you.

[Damn True]

Z/28 Update:

My other bigger project the 2014 Z/28 is on time and is launching great. Look for a ton of track shoot-outs features coming out soon.

The cars we beat on track in these shoot outs will shock some of you. Stay tuned more to come!

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG-20140131-002062_zps04c25ce1.jpg

It's been a busy year so far!

Mark

GM ought to bring a couple of those to the 25hr this year. E0 class is where it'd fit.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I already sold the Mule and next up is Jackass. I'm trying to ween myself off of Steelow...cars :-)

Mister Steelow to you.

so that means the Z-28's out too. :snapout:

....making note... till XV is done.

[Cris@JCG]

I like the brake duct idea!


Here is a photo Paul sent today of the front sub-frame ready to go into the car. They are on it!

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG_91612_zpsf3980e12.jpg

[dontlifttoshift]

Co signed.

Good catch Cris

[Cris@JCG]

Can't take credit for that.. One of my customers texted me last night about that one..

Co signed.

Good catch Cris

[GrabberGT]

Can't take credit for that.. One of my customers texted me last night about that one..

So much for the "if you've seen one DSE subframe, you've seen them all." sentiment. I totally missed that.

[Cris@JCG]

Nice way to make use of a frame horn.. I was racking my brain out on how the hell I was going to do brake ducts on the front without affecting the turing raduis with 305's on the front.. I had the upright figured out..


So much for the "if you've seen one DSE subframe, you've seen them all." sentiment. I totally missed that.

[Stielow]

Nice way to make use of a frame horn.. I was racking my brain out on how the hell I was going to do brake ducts on the front without affecting the turning radius with 305's on the front.. I had the upright figured out..

Oh yes we are using the DSE Hydraformed rails for brake cooling ducts. I need to be more careful on the pictures I post....

Matt opened up the rail and capped off internally and added a curved piece to turn the air. 18 X 11 wheel no problems lock to lock. :idea:

With the Anvil lower front valance it is wide open for brake ducts. We squared off the end of the frame rail and removed all the bumper bracket holes. Then added front duct that pull of the opening in the lower valance.

Now that you guys figured that I can post the rest of the pictures when I find them.

With Carbon Ceramic Brakes you need a lot of air flow to cool the brakes. Especially when you are making 875 HP. They don't have much thermal mass so much the cooling needs to be by air flow.

Mark

[k7king]

smart thinking there. I love when I learn something new everyday.

[Cris@JCG]

Thanks for posting the picture Mark! This past weekend while testing @ Buttonwillow we came off track & the brakes were cooking.. So more than ever now we will be working on ducting.. This is a great way to get air in the front!



Oh yes we are using the DSE Hydraformed rails for brake cooling ducts. I need to be more careful on the pictures I post....

Matt opened up the rail and capped off internally and added a curved piece to turn the air. 18 X 11 wheel no problems lock to lock. :idea:

With the Anvil lower front valance it is wide open for brake ducts. We squared off the end of the frame rail and removed all the bumper bracket holes. Then added front duct that pull of the opening in the lower valance.

Now that you guys figured that I can post the rest of the pictures when I find them.

With Carbon Ceramic Brakes you need a lot of air flow to cool the brakes. Especially when you are making 875 HP. They don't have much thermal mass so much the cooling needs to be by air flow.

Mark

[Damn True]

Very clever.

[Stielow]

Very clever.

This is the general idea.

The lower valance is open and the outer courners are brake cooling ducts and the center is for the heat exchangers.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I was expecting animation with narrative from the science guy.

Nice work.

[Damn True]

Very cool.

A lot more holes to plug in an OE sub, but it might be doable.

[Damn True]

I was expecting animation with narrative from the science guy.

Nice work.

I think Mark has a lab coat.

[JMitch19]

I like the brake duct idea!

Someone needs to con Mark or Paul into posting pictures of the rest of the hand fabricated duct work Matt did for the front brakes. They are a real work of metal art.

[Vegas69]

Mark, Is it safe to say that a majority of the cars on this site would see a disadvantage to this set up? I distinctly remember Wilwood telling me that many don't get enough heat in the brakes to make them perform at the top of their capabilities in our segment.

[Cris@JCG]

I expected that some of work you did on the new Z28 would trickle down into your new 69..

What are your thoughts on traction control for these old hot rods? Currently researching Racetronix & Bosch Motorsports ABS..

This is the general idea.

The lower valance is open and the outer courners are brake cooling ducts and the center is for the heat exchangers.

[Matt@BOS]

Mark, Is it safe to say that a majority of the cars on this site would see a disadvantage to this set up? I distinctly remember Wilwood telling me that many don't get enough heat in the brakes to make them perform at the top of their capabilities in our segment.

I'm inclined to believe that cooling would help Wilwoods A LOT. When I ran their brakes on my Camaro the aggressive street pads faded quickly, and the track pads worked right up until the time I boiled the brake fluid. I'm probably about ten development cycles behind Mark though, but stainless or better pistons and some cooling look to be an improvement.

[Stielow]

Mark, Is it safe to say that a majority of the cars on this site would see a disadvantage to this set up? I distinctly remember Wilwood telling me that many don't get enough heat in the brakes to make them perform at the top of their capabilities in our segment.

If you’re not pushing your car real hard, big brakes and brake cooling should not be an issue. On my cars at my power and grip levels brakes and brake cooling become a big deal. Red Devil was right on the edge of not having enough brakes. My spotter we telling me my rotors were yellow the last time we tested it. I also tuned the clear coat on the calipers yellow.

On most Brembos they have a clear coat. Look at CTS-Vs at a track day. If the guy is on it, his front calipers will not be silver they will be gold. At work we get them to a carmel color.

On that note anyone doing hard track work should run a high perfromance brake fluid. I change mine twice a season.

ABS brakes also drive rotor temps up. ABS also allows later braking points which means you are trying to get gid of more heat over a shorter period of time. If you are braking at the 5 going into a turn and I'm braking at the 2 my rotor temps are higher and I'm going faster.

Thanks Mark

[57hemicuda]

This is the general idea.

The lower valance is open and the outer courners are brake cooling ducts and the center is for the heat exchangers.

That is exactly how I did the Mustang coolers, even shaped like the the new Camaro's. Maybe for once I was ahead of my time.LOL

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-Hb5x4JK/0/L/DSC00252-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-BmMbMcd/0/L/DSC00258-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-PQvLv8J/0/L/DSC00520-L.jpg

[Stielow]

I expected that some of work you did on the new Z28 would trickle down into your new 69..

What are your thoughts on traction control for these old hot rods? Currently researching Racetronix & Bosch Motorsports ABS..

Traction control is a very tricky topic. Can it make you faster? Yes. Is it very hard to tune? Yes.

Not until the Z/28 was PTM (Performance Traction Management) ie Traction Control equal to drivers best effort or in some cases better. The other thing about PTM is it is much easier to drive fast.

BTM is very complicated. It is a fully integrated system that uses the following sensors:

Throttle position
4 wheel speed sensors
4 suspension travel sensors
Lateral sensor
Longitudinal sensor
Yaw sensor
Tire Pressure Sensors

All this feeds into a predictive tire models that predicts how much power the rear tires can take. We even use the suspension travel sensors to know if the car is airborne so not to cut power when it lands (Flying Car Mode).

So can it be done? Yes. Do I use it on my Hot Rods? No.

I don't have the time or the money to calibrate it. At 875 HP the integration time takes a long time and a lot of tires.

If I had a shop and sold cars to the public. (Not that guy in Woodland that can drive high HP stuff) I would think about slip based traction control to keep people from hurting themselves. My cars can do 3rd gear roll on burn outs! The pro race teams tune the TC systems to each track so it is easy. A one sizes fits all calibration is tricky.

Mark

[Sieg]

(Not that guy in Woodland that can drive high HP stuff)

High torque stuff too!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-mrsgVNv/1/S/i-mrsgVNv-S.jpg

Back on traction control - KTM's new traction management system on their 1290 motors is modulating power via the throttle shafts. A qualified friend who's old-school anti-technology said the feel of the system is very impressive. Is throttle shaft/butterfly modulation being used in the automotive world?

[Stielow]

High torque stuff too!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-mrsgVNv/1/S/i-mrsgVNv-S.jpg

Back on traction control - KTM's new traction management system on their 1290 motors is modulating power via the throttle shafts. A qualified friend who's old-school anti-technology said the feel of the system is very impressive. Is throttle shaft/butterfly modulation being used in the automotive world?

All new GM engines are throttle by wire, so yes the PTM system pulls throttle also. But, moving spark or dropping cylinders is faster. When you want and small correction in torque it is better than pulling throttle.

Mark

[clill]

Does that pic make my feet look big ?

[Sieg]

Does that pic make my feet look big ?

Not if you're at the Circus.

[Cris@JCG]

Thank you Mark.. I knew this would be a huge learning curve for me on these two subjects.. My biggest concerns on implimenting TC & ABS units that are designed for racing is the liabitiys.. I will have to have to discusss this with my customer..


Traction control is a very tricky topic. Can it make you faster? Yes. Is it very hard to tune? Yes.

Not until the Z/28 was PTM (Performance Traction Management) ie Traction Control equal to drivers best effort or in some cases better. The other thing about PTM is it is much easier to drive fast.

BTM is very complicated. It is a fully integrated system that uses the following sensors:

Throttle position
4 wheel speed sensors
4 suspension travel sensors
Lateral sensor
Longitudinal sensor
Yaw sensor
Tire Pressure Sensors

All this feeds into a predictive tire models that predicts how much power the rear tires can take. We even use the suspension travel sensors to know if the car is airborne so not to cut power when it lands (Flying Car Mode).

So can it be done? Yes. Do I use it on my Hot Rods? No.

I don't have the time or the money to calibrate it. At 875 HP the integration time takes a long time and a lot of tires.

If I had a shop and sold cars to the public. (Not that guy in Woodland that can drive high HP stuff) I would think about slip based traction control to keep people from hurting themselves. My cars can do 3rd gear roll on burn outs! The pro race teams tune the TC systems to each track so it is easy. A one sizes fits all calibration is tricky.

Mark

[kwhizz]

Another..................

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/kwhizz/Barrett-Jackson%202011/get-attachment2.jpg

[Vegas69]

I'm inclined to believe that cooling would help Wilwoods A LOT. When I ran their brakes on my Camaro the aggressive street pads faded quickly, and the track pads worked right up until the time I boiled the brake fluid. I'm probably about ten development cycles behind Mark though, but stainless or better pistons and some cooling look to be an improvement.

I was catering to the average guy on this site. For a mainly street application and autocross in a conventional brake set up, especially with manual brakes, I think heat is your friend. When you get to repetitive brake stop challenges and road racing, I agree completely. I cooked my brake fluid at almost every multi event and road course.

Maybe a set up when you can block it off for street and autocross.

Thanks for the explanation Mark...

[Ummgawa]

Another..................

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/kwhizz/Barrett-Jackson%202011/get-attachment2.jpg

Man. I took a dump this big yesterday.

[DaleTx]

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Camaro-ZL1-Wind-Tunnel-4_zps79acfb95.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/Camaro-ZL1-Wind-Tunnel-4_zps79acfb95.jpg.html)

This is the general idea.

The lower valance is open and the outer courners are brake cooling ducts and the center is for the heat exchangers.

Hi Mark,

I don't know for sure what is going on in the picture... but I'm assuming the changes in color represent changes in air speed. It looks like the air is flowing through the valance, around the rotors, and out through the wheels. What a great tool for designing the valance and ducting for cooling the brakes. No guess work here.

I would be interested if you had any more details about this picture... cool stuff.

[Beach Cruiser]

Oh yes we are using the DSE Hydraformed rails for brake cooling ducts. I need to be more careful on the pictures I post....

Matt opened up the rail and capped off internally and added a curved piece to turn the air. 18 X 11 wheel no problems lock to lock. :idea:

With the Anvil lower front valance it is wide open for brake ducts. We squared off the end of the frame rail and removed all the bumper bracket holes. Then added front duct that pull of the opening in the lower valance.

Now that you guys figured that I can post the rest of the pictures when I find them.

With Carbon Ceramic Brakes you need a lot of air flow to cool the brakes. Especially when you are making 875 HP. They don't have much thermal mass so much the cooling needs to be by air flow.

Mark

I cry foul! Where's my Royalty checks? The Beach Cruiser has be set up like this for a while! Maybe it is I that should be careful of the pictures I post :bang:

http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff356/n2sking/C7184E85-75F7-48CB-AA9F-87F7F715EDA9-198-0000001AD553FA00_zpsaac03114.jpg

[GregWeld]

Man. I took a dump this big yesterday.





:ttiwop:

[raustinss]

Mark as of right now there are 54 pages and how many pictures to this thread...please go outside and take pictures of the damn snow if you aren't going to bless us with pictures of the Camaro.....
Signed everyone
Thanks

[Stielow]

Mark as of right now there are 54 pages and how many pictures to this thread...please go outside and take pictures of the damn snow if you aren't going to bless us with pictures of the Camaro.....
Signed everyone
Thanks

OK a crappy snow photo....

If you want car photos the Dutchboys will need to post them.

[raustinss]

Lmao thanks mark...smart ass...guess I could have looked out my own windows to see that....but it does look like you've got more snow then us.
On a serious note when you built malitude you used a Canadian guy mmmmm his name is escaping me right now but he was too far from London ontario. I've got his name written down somewhere and address, my question is were you happy with the results...would you send anyone to see him for work. Reason I ask is for what I'm planning on paint requires someone to have a gentle touch and attention to detail. I can pm you the details if you need to know what I'm planning. Was kinda thinking about possibly using him
Thanks Ryan Austin

PS did you check out www.garagescapes.ca for your garage yet

[Leadfoot1]

I cry foul! Where's my Royalty checks? The Beach Cruiser has be set up like this for a while! Maybe it is I that should be careful of the pictures I post :bang:

http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff356/n2sking/C7184E85-75F7-48CB-AA9F-87F7F715EDA9-198-0000001AD553FA00_zpsaac03114.jpg



I always knew that Stielow guy was a fake...now we all can see how he REALLY does it, stealing ideas from here and there, HA! Anyone can do that.....

AND NOW WE KNOW!!!

Lol!!!

No offense dude, but im sure the finished job will not look so crude on the Stielow version, id bet on that... right now!!

Lol!! Nice idea tough! And it works im sure of that, so serious points for the idea!!

Lead.

[Damn True]

That could have been worded differently.

[Stielow]

I cry foul! Where's my Royalty checks? The Beach Cruiser has be set up like this for a while! Maybe it is I that should be careful of the pictures I post :bang:

http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff356/n2sking/C7184E85-75F7-48CB-AA9F-87F7F715EDA9-198-0000001AD553FA00_zpsaac03114.jpg

Looks good!

What does the spindle side look like?

Mark

[Beach Cruiser]

It's just an L shapped Tab that bolts to the backside of the spindle to hold it in place. It's butted up against the back of the spindle so there's minimun air leakage. The air is routed to the inside of the brake rotor, I really should make some plates to keep the air from leaking out of the rotor and force it all through, but so far the brakes have held up pretty good. I could tell a difference in the brake dust patterns on the wheel before and after I did it.

And Lead, If I really cared about powdercoating my spindles and control arms, my stuff would be a close second to Marks. But I'm working on a shoe string budget for sure!

[andreb]

Man, that shop looks so awesome. Maybe we need a new build thread just for that!!! :idea:

[Sales@Dutchboys]

Sorry for the long awaited updates, We have been really busy here in the shop along with getting Marks car into the final paint stage. We have been making a lot of progress in the last few weeks with the small needed details and looks like we will be getting the car in the booth for paint by the end of the week.

We just got the firewall, bottom of the car and subframe painted this last week and back together.


Mario and PPG hooked us up with all of the paint for Marks car a few weeks back. We are getting very excited to see some color going on it this week.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/IMG_1261_zps7738c248.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/IMG_1261_zps7738c248.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/IMG_1262_zpsb07c9305.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/IMG_1262_zpsb07c9305.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/IMG_1274_zpsa2855e75.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/IMG_1274_zpsa2855e75.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/IMG_1275_zps56afc3b1.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/IMG_1275_zps56afc3b1.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/IMG_1277_zps233c1aa1.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/IMG_1277_zps233c1aa1.jpg.html)

More updates to come next week! The body color and carbon paint scheme should be pretty cool!

[214Chevy]

Can't wait. I know it'll be awesooommmmmmmmee!!:bigun2:

[Ketzer]

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/IMG_1261_zps7738c248.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/IMG_1261_zps7738c248.jpg.html)



A lot of folks wonder why it costs so much to do a really nice paint job.
How much retail is that just in paint sitting on the table?


Jeff-

[Sales@Dutchboys]

A lot of folks wonder why it costs so much to do a really nice paint job.
How much retail is that just in paint sitting on the table?


Jeff-


You are exactly right, the days of a $5,000 paint job are long gone.
Sitting on that bench in paint at retail has to be in the $4,000-$5,000 range. And that isn't even including the other things it takes to do one. Sandpaper,tape,paper,plastic etc.

Some people just don't understand why it costs so much to paint a car. But when you wrap up 5-6 grand up in materials it really adds up on top the the hundreds of hours it takes to get the car into final paint.

:thumbsup:

[Musclerodz]

A lot of folks wonder why it costs so much to do a really nice paint job.
How much retail is that just in paint sitting on the table?


Jeff-

I would say somewhere around $3k

[RussMurco]

Did we get a paint color hint yet?

[Gordz32]

2021 is a great clear, but I gotta ask, whats up with the quarts?

[Musclerodz]

I like the end result of 2021, I just hate trying to get that first coat on. It doesn't play as nice as some of the other clears.

[Sonar Chief]

Always like progress pictures ..... looks exceptional as expected!!!

Man there is not much left of that radiator support ... waiting on color shots!!!!

Where is the belly pan???

[frojoe]

Mark is the worst (or would it be best) tease ever.. we demand satisfaction!

[waynieZ]

I can't wait to see the car with some color!

[LS7 Z/28]

2021 is a great clear, but I gotta ask, whats up with the quarts?

I like the end result of 2021, I just hate trying to get that first coat on. It doesn't play as nice as some of the other clears.

A lot of paint guys call it 2020-Run because it loves to sag after you get done with a panel. It looks great when it's buffed out, but it's not easy to lay down. It's going to look amazing on Mark's car though, those Dutchboys know what they are doing.

[214Chevy]

A lot of folks wonder why it costs so much to do a really nice paint job.
How much retail is that just in paint sitting on the table?


Jeff-

Jeff, a lot of folks don't understand why it even cost so much to simply build a car the right way and give it, it's due justice. I mean, a meager, mediocre build could creep up near or be $50k fast. And that's with cheaper or used, hand me down parts.

[DOOM]

You are exactly right, the days of a $5,000 paint job are long gone.
Sitting on that bench in paint at retail has to be in the $4,000-$5,000 range. And that isn't even including the other things it takes to do one. Sandpaper,tape,paper,plastic etc.

Some people just don't understand why it costs so much to paint a car. But when you wrap up 5-6 grand up in materials it really adds up on top the the hundreds of hours it takes to get the car into final paint.

:thumbsup:
Jeff I go through this everyday most people have no idea what this stuff cost! I don't do complete paint work anymore for that reason. There is a little over $4500.00 retail sitting on Pauls counter. When you tell people a ''GOOD'' repaint starts at 8-9 thousand they look at you like your crazy then I get '' I can get it way cheaper at MACCO why are you so much?'' I use to explain but I don't even bother anymore!:EmoteClueless:

[MarkM66]

Jeff, a lot of folks don't understand why it even cost so much to simply build a car the right way and give it, it's due justice. I mean, a meager, mediocre build could creep up near or be $50k fast. And that's with cheaper or used, hand me down parts.

You know it! And people cry that Barrett Jackson ruined it for the "average" car guy. It's the price of everything to build a car that's putting it out of reach! Paint supplies really are getting out of control... :lostmarbles:

:topic:

[Blake Foster]

Jeff I go through this everyday most people have no idea what this stuff cost! I don't do complete paint work anymore for that reason. There is a little over $4500.00 retail sitting on Pauls counter. When you tell people a ''GOOD'' repaint starts at 8-9 thousand they look at you like your crazy then I get '' I can get it way cheaper at MACCO why are you so much?'' I use to explain but I don't even bother anymore!:EmoteClueless:

We are just ready to paint a 69 Camaro today in the shop and we are at 5000.00 in materials.?? go figure

[DOOM]

I like the end result of 2021, I just hate trying to get that first coat on. It doesn't play as nice as some of the other clears.

A lot of paint guys call it 2020-Run because it loves to sag after you get done with a panel. It looks great when it's buffed out, but it's not easy to lay down. It's going to look amazing on Mark's car though, those Dutchboys know what they are doing.

I have to say we have no problem laying this clear down what so ever. My painter and I chose to use two different guns . I use IWATA LPH 400 1.3 tip and he uses the ''OLD'' SATA 2000 1.4 tip and we have zero problems. I have used SIKKENS AUTO CLEAR for years, and the 2021 spays out just as good.

[Musclerodz]

I have to say we have no problem laying this clear down what so ever. My painter and I chose to use two different guns . I use IWATA LPH 400 1.3 tip and he uses the ''OLD'' SATA 2000 1.4 tip and we have zero problems. I have used SIKKENS AUTO CLEAR for years, and the 2021 spays out just as good.
I have the same iwata gun with a 1.4 and that first coat just doesn't want to flow together unless I over reduce it which I hate to do. 2021 likes to build just as the first coat is layed, so if that first coat is not perfect, I have to do extra color sanding to get the texture out of it. Its not a deal breaker, but I never have that issue with Dupont Premier or Glasurit

[Damn True]

Just out of curiosity, what % of the whole is spent cutting & buffing the clear?

[Ketzer]

You are exactly right, the days of a $5,000 paint job are long gone.
Sitting on that bench in paint at retail has to be in the $4,000-$5,000 range. And that isn't even including the other things it takes to do one. Sandpaper,tape,paper,plastic etc.

Some people just don't understand why it costs so much to paint a car. But when you wrap up 5-6 grand up in materials it really adds up on top the the hundreds of hours it takes to get the car into final paint.

:thumbsup:

Thanks Paul! ..and everybody else that chimed in! I hoped you guys would share for the folks at home that have no idea, how the numbers add up so quickly.


Jeff-

[Fbodyboy]

What do you use for paint on the firewall is that a single stage like sems hotrod black

[Musclerodz]

What do you use for paint on the firewall is that a single stage like sems hotrod blackSince it is all PPG I am going to guess DBC9700 black and DCU2060 matte clear

[Rick D]

I have to say we have no problem laying this clear down what so ever. My painter and I chose to use two different guns . I use IWATA LPH 400 1.3 tip and he uses the ''OLD'' SATA 2000 1.4 tip and we have zero problems. I have used SIKKENS AUTO CLEAR for years, and the 2021 spays out just as good.

:thankyou: :thankyou: :hello: :hello:

Oh and you have not sprayed Superior 250 clear!!! Nothing like it on the market, NOTHING!!!

You should still be using my clear buddy :twak: :poke: maybe some day you'll be ready to come back to the good stuff?? :knokwood: :hello:

[pitts12driver]

Great work! Looks amazing and coming along well.

[JON Q]

Camaro XV is looking good in red....

[Stielow]

Camaro XV is looking good in red....

The Dutchboys have the main body, doors and decklid painted.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG9509842_zps21a529f4.jpg

[Stielow]

Ryan Kuhlenbeck is helping me with wiring so we are doing the whole system from scratch. It gives us the flexibility to put things where and how we want them.

Attached is a photo of the fuse boxes that will be mounted in the trunk. I'm tired of the fuse boxes under the dash where they are hard to get at. These are modular and can be wired on the bench.

Ryan has helped me on my last 5 builds so we have a good mature game plan on the wiring.

This allows all the power to be switched in the trunk and all the circuits we need for engine, ABS, Vapor Work Fuel controller, body wiring.....

All the Mil Spec connectors are cool and allow a modular build up.



http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG9585242_zps5694ded3.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG9558682_zps0f43060d.jpg

[Rick D]

Lookin good!! So do you think it will be out this year??? :innocent:

[Stielow]

Lookin good!! So do you think it will be out this year??? :innocent:

Yes we are shooting for July.

[Rick D]

Yes we are shooting for July.

WOW :hail: :hail: you better get going!!! Is the shed ready??

[sleepertime]

Wow, Once again raising the bar. The car is looking great. Lot's of inspiration when looking over your builds... Thanks for the updates.

:trophy-1302:

[GregWeld]

Well I certainly hope Charley approves of that red.


LOL

[WSSix]

Good luck getting it done by July! Love that darker red.

[Che70velle]

Well I certainly hope Charley approves of that red.


LOL

I was just thinking the same thing...

[waynieZ]

The color looks great. Always something new to see and learn in your threads. It looks like a nice set up.

[glassman]

Ryan Kuhlenbeck is helping me with wiring so we are doing the whole system from scratch. It gives us the flexibility to put things where and how we want them.

Attached is a photo of the fuse boxes that will be mounted in the trunk. I'm tired of the fuse boxes under the dash where they are hard to get at. These are modular and can be wired on the bench.

Ryan has helped me on my last 5 builds so we have a good mature game plan on the wiring.

This allows all the power to be switched in the trunk and all the circuits we need for engine, ABS, Vapor Work Fuel controller, body wiring.....

All the Mil Spec connectors are cool and allow a modular build up.



http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG9585242_zps5694ded3.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG9558682_zps0f43060d.jpg

I think your on to something here. How tough would it be to put this idea/part into production?

[redsand]

Who doesn't like getting sick sitting upside down putting fuses in and banging your head on the column

[redsand]

Who doesn't like getting sick sitting upside down putting fuses in and banging your head on the column

[Ketzer]

I think your on to something here. How tough would it be to put this idea/part into production?

You are on to something, Mike. I think I like this better than the Isis.


Jeff-

[GregWeld]

With all the stuff we now like to stuff in our cars --- there's no reason whatsoever to have the fuse box up there too!

Plenty of room in the trunk up under the package tray -- and like others pointed out - who want to lay upside-down in the dark trying to see a fuse! Try it with bifocals on!


Nice looking stuff Mark!

[clill]

Try it laying inside the trunk.

[GregWeld]

This is in the trunk of a '69 Camaro -- why would you lay in the trunk?? Even I can reach in there and fix a fuse. But then again --- I built it that way. :>)





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Rudys%20Camaro/file-76.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Rudys%20Camaro/file-76.jpg.html)

[qship510]

Well I certainly hope Charley approves of that red.


LOL

VW color Mark?

[Twinstang]

Very nice build keep the pics coming

[Garage Dog 65]

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Rudys%20Camaro/file-76.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Rudys%20Camaro/file-76.jpg.html)

I love how you can start your car from the trunk Greg ! Nice mod !

:peepwall:

:mock:

Jim

[carbuff]

I love how you can start your car from the trunk Greg ! Nice mod !

:lmao:

[preston]

This is in the trunk of a '69 Camaro -- why would you lay in the trunk?? Even I can reach in there and fix a fuse. But then again --- I built it that way. :>)





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Rudys%20Camaro/file-76.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Rudys%20Camaro/file-76.jpg.html)



Where are all the other amplifiers ? :lol:

[lilcraigford]

Another red one! I'm looking forward to seeing more. I really really like the fusebox relocation. Its funny, all of that space in the trunk staring me in the face when I intended to sacrifice my glovebox.

[Swain]

What AAW kit # is this. Like the look of it.

This is in the trunk of a '69 Camaro -- why would you lay in the trunk?? Even I can reach in there and fix a fuse. But then again --- I built it that way. :>)





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Rudys%20Camaro/file-76.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Rudys%20Camaro/file-76.jpg.html)

[NovaBlue71]

Looks like a Highway 22 kit. We have installed at few at shop and they are nice.:thumbsup:

[Stielow]

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/camaro_red_06_zpsb0c02894.jpg
This is the rendering of my new project. We came up with this layout with help of the Dutchboys and Pfaff. We wanted to show the Anvil carbon fiber front clip by showing the carbon parts with the strip in raw carbon. We are also leaving the mirrors, rear bumpers and deck spoiler exposed carbon fiber. The wheels are Finspeeds one piece mono blocks so I can get a 18” wheel to clear the Brembo carbon ceramic brakes. The Anvil front lower valance also enables more air flow to keep the Thomson Auto 427 LS engine cool. The Dutchboys have the body painted and we will be laying out the stripes next week.

[camcojb]

:hail::cheers:

[Sieg]

Looking good! :thumbsup:

[dontlifttoshift]

The wheels are Finspeeds one piece mono blocks

Good choice!! Did you get them yet?

[Beach Cruiser]

looking good! Are you going to have it ready for the UTCC in July? Would love to see it in person.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Mark,

Maybe this was discussed earlier in the thread, but if not, why do you prefer using 18" wheels over say 19's?

[LS7 Z/28]

Mark,

Maybe this was discussed earlier in the thread, but if not, why do you prefer using 18" wheels over say 19's?

Because of the lack of 200 tread wear tires in 19" that's why you see most everyone running 18's. Mainly BFG Rivals or Falken Azenis RT615K

[redfire69]

Love the rendering, the exposed stripes looks great!

[89 RS]

That looks sweet, it's awesome how you come up with completely different designs for the 1st Gen Camaros you build.

[kiwigt]

First time I've ever personally seen the 'Stielow Engineering' logo. Makes me hope that one day Stielow engineered parts will be commercially available for us less gifted Pro Touring enthusiasts who don't possess the same incredible level of engineering skill.

[Sales@Dutchboys]

We have been really busy at the shop getting things done on the car so that we can get it back to Mark ASAP. I haven't had a chance to get on and post as many updates as I would of liked.

Here are a few shots from the last few weeks.

We will be putting Murrays rendering to work here in another week. More to come.

Now back to Wet Sanding.....


http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/IMG_1428_zpsabbee1db.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/IMG_1428_zpsabbee1db.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/IMG_1434_zpse66ffc1b.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/IMG_1434_zpse66ffc1b.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/IMG_1436_zpsce30f009.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/IMG_1436_zpsce30f009.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/IMG_1438_zpsda094442.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/IMG_1438_zpsda094442.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/IMG_1446_zps483937da.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/IMG_1446_zps483937da.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/IMG_1447_zps1516d3c8.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/IMG_1447_zps1516d3c8.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/579209_737728082927929_1301011374_n_zpsd92378f4.jp g (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/579209_737728082927929_1301011374_n_zpsd92378f4.jp g.html)


http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/IMG_1448_zps7954e7c3.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/IMG_1448_zps7954e7c3.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/IMG_1511_zps1c4a641c.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/IMG_1511_zps1c4a641c.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/IMG_1510_zpsbcb2350a.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/IMG_1510_zpsbcb2350a.jpg.html)


http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/novablue71/IMG_1566_zpsef461c6a.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/novablue71/media/IMG_1566_zpsef461c6a.jpg.html)

[tubbed69]

Great job as always Paul,amazing work.What color red?

[GrabberGT]

That must be the same color red of the lipstick my wife users on our :censored: nights. Down boy! Down! That looks sessy. :unibrow:

[Stielow]

Great job as always Paul,amazing work.What color red?

It's a PPG Audi color.

Looks great Paul and Joe.

Mark

[tubbed69]

Mark your always raising the bar for everyone,another super build:king:

[Vegas69]

I like it, looks to be the best one yet...

[214Chevy]

I'm not a fan of red at all, but this is such a deep, dark red I actually like it.

[Richio1]

Sweet blood red

[Flash68]

It's a PPG Audi color.

Looks great Paul and Joe.

Mark

Those Germans know how to pick color.

[Ketzer]

Good choice!! Did you get them yet?

x2 !! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

First time I've ever personally seen the 'Stielow Engineering' logo. Makes me hope that one day Stielow engineered parts will be commercially available for us less gifted Pro Touring enthusiasts who don't possess the same incredible level of engineering skill.

x2 again!

Jeff-

[214Chevy]

First time I've ever personally seen the 'Stielow Engineering' logo. Makes me hope that one day Stielow engineered parts will be commercially available for us less gifted Pro Touring enthusiasts who don't possess the same incredible level of engineering skill.

That'll probably be after he retires from GM. Right now, I'd say the paychecks are very large from them when you're a "go-to" guy for the new Z-28. :drive:

[Twinstang]

Very nice build keep the pics coming

[clill]

That'll probably be after he retires from GM. Right now, I'd say the paychecks are very large from them when you're a "go-to" guy for the new Z-28. :drive:

LOL...I can assure you that his paychecks aren't even large enough for him to finish any of these cars without going into credit card debt. He has had offers to go work elsewhere that would pay more but he loves the job he has.
As for his engineered parts I think he usually passes stuff to DSE and you see it there in some form at times.

[Sieg]

As for his engineered parts I think he usually passes stuff to DSE and you see it there in some form at times.
Professional courtesy for putting that ball joint stud through Kyle's foot. :D

[flatoutz]

Nice shade of red.Mark,is the carbon front end going red too?

[JohnC]

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/camaro_red_06_zpsb0c02894.jpg
This is the rendering of my new project. We came up with this layout with help of the Dutchboys and Pfaff. We wanted to show the Anvil carbon fiber front clip by showing the carbon parts with the strip in raw carbon. We are also leaving the mirrors, rear bumpers and deck spoiler exposed carbon fiber. The wheels are Finspeeds one piece mono blocks so I can get a 18” wheel to clear the Brembo carbon ceramic brakes. The Anvil front lower valance also enables more air flow to keep the Thomson Auto 427 LS engine cool. The Dutchboys have the body painted and we will be laying out the stripes next week.

Nice shade of red.Mark,is the carbon front end going red too?


Here is the rendering in case you missed it..

[flatoutz]

That looks badass.I didn't see the rendering.Thanks John for reposting it.

[coolwelder62]

Coming along nicely Guy's.:G-Dub:

[WSSix]

Looks great. Thanks for quoting the rendering, John. I didn't even know if was posted.

[jvike]

It's a PPG Audi color.

Looks great Paul and Joe.

Mark

Must be Misano Red.
http://fourtitude.com/emAlbum/albums/Events%20and%20Shows/Industry%20Shows/Geneva%20Motor%20Show/2013/Event%20Photos%20-%20Audi/2013-geneva-motor-show-audi-927.jpg

[GregWeld]

Professional courtesy for putting that ball joint stud through Kyle's foot. :D




I think you (Charley) told me this story at OUSCI....

[clill]

Professional courtesy for putting that ball joint stud through Kyle's foot. :D
LOL...
It was a wheel stud on a 69 Camaro that Mark had crashed and Mark and Kyle were parting it out. Mark split the upper ball joint and the lower a arm, spindle hub assembly launched right down onto Kyles toe.

[Sieg]

LOL...
It was a wheel stud on a 69 Camaro that Mark had crashed and Mark and Kyle were parting it out. Mark split the upper ball joint and the lower a arm, spindle hub assembly launched right down onto Kyles toe.

Yeah thats it! :sieg:

I took this about the same time I heard the story.......
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-92hdJ3Q/1/XL/i-92hdJ3Q-XL.jpg

[GregWeld]

My Mom used to tell me:


One guy = one brain.... TWO GUYS = half a brain.


I wish I knew 1% of what these two know about cars.





Yeah thats it! :sieg:

I took this about the same time I heard the story.......
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-92hdJ3Q/1/XL/i-92hdJ3Q-XL.jpg

[waynieZ]

My Mom used to tell me:


One guy = one brain.... TWO GUYS = half a brain.


I wish I knew 1% of what these two know about cars.

Agreed Greg.

Mark I love the rendering. It looks great with that style of stripe. Wasn't fond of them until I saw it in these colors.

[67XR7]

Digging the rendering!!

[kotamusclecars]

First time I've ever personally seen the 'Stielow Engineering' logo. Makes me hope that one day Stielow engineered parts will be commercially available for us less gifted Pro Touring enthusiasts who don't possess the same incredible level of engineering skill.

These parts are available where do you think the quadra link came from marks mule car was the test bed for that product him and Kyle are very good friends and I will bet at some point you will see abs on detroit speeds list of parts but right now its one of marks edges above the competition

[tango68ss]

..any updates? I know the new Z/28 is out and Mark is probably busy with all that hoopla, but.... come on!

[Ppd1979]

Any new pics, need my fix!

[Jr]

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Camaro%20XV/DSC_8334.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Camaro%20XV/DSC_8334.jpg.html)



Mark,
Where are you going to mount the Ecu?

[fleetus macmullitz]

^^^^^^^^^^

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showpost.php4?p=491717&postcount=327

[Jr]

Thank you. I assume there is no worries about under hood heat and the Ecu...

[Sales@Dutchboys]

Sorry for the lack of updates guys. We have been super busy at the shop and haven't had a ton of time to get on a load up photos. I will make a point to do a big update this week with pictures of the car. We are actually finishing up a few small details and will be delivering the car back to Mark this week for him to start putting together.:thumbsup:

[illmatic96ss]

anyone know how much HP on this ls9 ?

[Sieg]

anyone know how much HP on this ls9 ?

872/812 or more is a good guess.

[Stielow]

Mark,
Where are you going to mount the Ecu?

It is where the battery was originally. Because we moved the dry sump tank the ECU and the under hood fuse block.


Mark

[illmatic96ss]

Hey Mark , how much HP are you getting out of this set up ?:y0!:

[Track Junky]

Looking forward to seeing more updates on this build. :thumbsup:

[Stielow]

I got Hellfire back from the Dutchboys for my spring car party. The guys from Finspeed also drove the wheels up from Missouri for the party. They are 18 X12 rear and 18 X 10.5 fronts. We will put the Anvil Carbon Fiber front clip on the car after the engine is in the car.


http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG-20140518-004392_zps27602009.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG-20140518-004412_zps8ed7bbc6.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG-20140518-004402_zpsf85ba614.jpg

[ArisESQ]

Fantastic!!

[214Chevy]

First....to see it and comment here!! WOW!! :flashie:

[Jr]

Killer paint job! Dutchboys knocked it out of the park!

Are you running down bars to the frame? I don't see the holes in the firewall...

275's in the front? Thought you were going with 305 or 315...?

[Stielow]

Killer paint job! Dutchboys knocked it out of the park!

Are you running down bars to the frame? I don't see the holes in the firewall...

275's in the front? Thought you were going with 305 or 315...?

All I had in the shop was some old 275. I plan on running a 295 front tire.

Mark

[LS7 Z/28]

Those wheels are amazing, what an awesome color.

[214Chevy]

All I had in the shop was some old 275.

I was wondering why the front sidewall was so stretched Mark. Either way, I knew it was a method to your madness. Wheel color is killer.

[tones2SS]

That is looking great. Love that color.

[Roberts68]

I got Hellfire back from the Dutchboys for my spring car party

... And that is the first I have seen of the name. Aptly named too no doubt.

[WSSix]

Love the wheel selection! Good job too Dutchboys!

[GregWeld]

Charley asked me to tell you ---- YOU SUCK



LOL




It looks awesome Mark!!

[coachwinbush]

Ooooooo myyyyyyyyyyyy

[Stielow]

My Spring Car Party

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/1461455_10202237441838133_8681071381292929859_n_zp s5f8abd91.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/10329296_554246678021727_7309340214298590637_n_zps c97030a1.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/10308318_10202235132220394_5441491139545851150_n_z ps1ba15a7f.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/10372052_10202237441918135_1383947060241436854_n_z ps649fe3ad.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/ResizedImage_14004272487792_zpsecf1e619.jpg

[Sonar Chief]

WOW ...... very nicely done!!!

[LS7 Z/28]

Man, I don't know how you could sell this one.

I wish I knew people cool enough to have car parties, that looks like a good time. You guys in Detroit know what you're doing.

[Sieg]

Looks real good Mark, nice to see the Z/28 badge. :thumbsup:

[tmadden]

Sweet as always!!! Really like this!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Awesome car and shop!!

[Track Junky]

Love the wheel color with that red Mark. Looks awesome. Thanks for the update. :thumbsup:

[glassman]

The garage came out really sweet too! Hopefully it will give birth to many a Camaro more like your wall art states :thumbsup:

Good luck finishing up #15, hope to see ya at the OUSCI....Mike

[GregWeld]

I'm having garage envy!


What a neat nice building!

[Richio1]

I'm having garage envy!


What a neat nice building!



I was just thinking the same thing.

[Rybar]

Awesome. Car and the shop look fantastic. Thx for posting

[canrc]

Wow! Looks absolutely fantastic!

[frankv11]

Hey Mark I must of missed my envite. :)

It must be hard to get to the top and tuffer to stay there, yet you are doing it. :_party: :_party:

[tom091074]

Mark, what are those wheels? They look really good on the car.

[Sieg]

Mark, what are those wheels? They look really good on the car.

The guys from Finspeed also drove the wheels up from Missouri for the party. They are 18 X12 rear and 18 X 10.5 fronts.\

http://www.finspeed.com/performance-wheels/f10/

[tom091074]

Thanks I missed that post. Im from Missouri so I may have to check those out.

[formula88]

Some Stielow Car Party pics....

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0810.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0810.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0811.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0811.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0815.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0815.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0819.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0819.jpg.html)

[formula88]

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0822.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0822.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0824.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0824.jpg.html)

Marks latest Camaro has a awesome newly remodeled shop to call home.

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0836.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0836.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0840.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0840.jpg.html)

[novaguy]

awesome build mark. how do you access the dry sump tank when its time for an oil change? is it possible to post a pic. thanks

[syborg tt]

Gordon,

Thank you for sharing the pictures. However I am begging you to share more pictures of your Camaro. Please

and Mark I love your garage it looks fantastic

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0822.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/Stielow%20Car%20Party%202014/DSC_0822.jpg.html)

[Stielow]

awesome build mark. how do you access the dry sump tank when its time for an oil change? is it possible to post a pic. thanks

I'll get some pictures later but the dry sump has a remote fill / dip stick and a remote drain. Moving it out of the engine bay really cleaned things up.

I'm going to build this car with the front clip off so we don't damage the carbon fiber front fenders. I'm starting on the brake lines and the wiring this weekend after I organize my shop a bit.

[wiedemab]

Wow - - the shop turned out awesome!

[syborg tt]

I'm starting on the brake lines and the wiring this weekend after I organize my shop a bit.

I hate to see it when it's messy

[aggie91]

X2

I thought what was in the pictures was organized...:goggles:

[mad68rs]

The Camaro looks great! I was actually just in Michigan for the FSAE competition at MIS. I met a chassis engineer from GM that said he worked on the Z28. He was surprised when I knew who you were. I had to tell him you build some crazy hot rods.

[214Chevy]

You know you're the man when you can throw that kind of party with a turnout like that. See, I'd throw a party like that and 1 or 2 people would show up.:knock:

[tones2SS]

Car looks awesome, home/garages look awesome and the party looks like it was an great time. Very cool.
Thanks for sharing those photos!

[Roberts68]

Mark, what can you tell us about the other Camaro minus front clip outside? It looks blue.
Is that one also yours or a friends?

[LS7 Z/28]

Mark, what can you tell us about the other Camaro minus front clip outside? It looks blue.
Is that one also yours or a friends?

Look at page 68 and page 1.

[Roberts68]

Look at page 68 and page 1.

Ah, I missed those clues.:EmoteClueless:

Thank you Casey


:topic:

[Sparks67]

Mark, what can you tell us about the other Camaro minus front clip outside? It looks blue.
Is that one also yours or a friends?


Here is a few more photos of Gordon's. 67 Camaro. In this thread. http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=41467

I don't think there is a build thread of Gordon's on Lateral-g. My 67 RS Camaro is in the same shop, but I never shot any photos of his build.

Jeff

PS. Looks good Mark.

[69x22]

Love the car! Absolute beautiful place you have there. Trees, grass, shop, house and all.:thumbsup:

[coachwinbush]

mark can you tell me the advantages of your rear end

[Stielow]

mark can you tell me the advantages of your rear end

Sorry this will be a bit long so bear with me.

I wanted to add ABS to Red Devil when I built it. The first thing you need for ABS is good wheel speed sensors. I planned on using the DSE front sub frame so front wheel speed sensors were easy. DSE uses C-6 Corvette knuckles with bolt in C-6 hubs with built in wheel speed sensors. On Red Devil I started out with the DSE C-6 bearing in the front and a cobbled Mustang style Currie Tone ring set up in the back. Currie made this set up with the “Big Bearing” style axles and I modified all of it to work. See attached photo.


http://rs439.pbsrc.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSCN2485_zps8852965a.jpg~c200

The tone wheel set up would work for low speed stuff but would drop out under high speeds and load. My theory is above 100 MPH and over 1 G caused the air gap to change enough to set a fault code in the ABS module. At the 2010 OUSCI event it worked for the Auto Cross and the Speed Stop but dropped out on the road course. Intermittent ABS is almost as bad as no ABS. I had things I did not like about the tone wheel / “Big Bearing” set up:

Intermittent signal and signal drop outs
Rear axle seal leaks
Brake knock back
Poorly integrated park brake set up.

I needed to design something new. The stock front wheel bearing worked great. I set out to design a way to put a C-6 bearing on a Ford 9 inch. The setup I wanted to design would accept all the stock Corvette parts to make it robust. The bracket we designed allows the use of a C-6 ZR-1 Bearing, Stock C-6 park brake, Any C-6 brakes will bolt on and I made an axle seal system that does not leak.

The Delphi ABS system I use needs a passive wheel speed sensor the ZR-1 bearing uses active wheel speed sensors that work with the Bosch ABS system. I worked with SKF to make me one off ZR-1 SKF bearings with the passive wheel speed sensors.

In 2011 I installed this new axle set up in Red Devil and it works flawlessly:

No ABS signal drop outs
No brake knock back
No axle leaks
Robust park brake

The parts required to make it all work:

Steel Axle ends that weld to the Housing ends (DSE and Myself have fixtures now)
Aluminum Spacer (Sets up the proper spacing for the caliper offset)
C-6 Corvette Park brake parts
C-6 ZR-1 bearing (Off the shelf will work if you don’t have ABS)
Custom axles (Strange, Moser and Sway-A-Way have built them for me)
2013 Full Size truck axle seal (GM made millions of these so easy to get)
Corvette axle nut.

I have this parts running on Red Devil, Mayhem and my heavy test vehicle (Chris Smith’s C-10 pickup). Chris was having issues with brake knock back on his truck and this system fixed his problem in the rear. Now his is flexing his front uprights.

I originally designed this to fix my problem so I was not worried about cost because this stuff is all one off. I have lost track on how much CAD and design time I have in these parts. It looks simple but the devil is in the details. I have made a few parts and Kyle at DSE and I are working on selling them through Detroit Speed.

When we finalize the details I’ll let this community know.


http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSCN0185_zpsbb55550f.jpg

This is my third itteration with lightning pockets added. I'll use these on Hellfire.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/Untitled_zpscd1bf938.jpg

This is the alignment tool to set the steel bracket square to the housing.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSCN0182_zps9f5fd0e2.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSC_3866_zpsd0928775.jpg

The Full Size Truck axle seal

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSC_3863_zps7c6af04d.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSC_3859_zpscf9dcb14.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSC_3856_zpsb5541a13.jpg

[HWY Nova]

Thanks for sharing!


--Eric

[Stielow]

Here is a few more photos of Gordon's. 67 Camaro. In this thread. http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=41467

I don't think there is a build thread of Gordon's on Lateral-g. My 67 RS Camaro is in the same shop, but I never shot any photos of his build.

Jeff

PS. Looks good Mark.

This is Gordon Rojewski's '67. It is an orginal paint '67 out of the SW USA. Gordon has been working with Sled Alley to finish it up. It has the full DSE Chassis, A Thomson 700 HP 442 LS, D&D Perf 6 Speed. etc. All the good stuff. It also has some "Stielow" tweaks on it. Gordan and I have been good freinds for a long time. This car will be awsome when it is done later this summer. And yes he is leaving the paint.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSC_0825_zps9ee4e432.jpg

[GregWeld]

Is the place next door to you for sale??


If so... HI NEIGHBOR!!


Think of all the fun WE could have with YOU doing all the work.

[bdahlg68]

I've got a spare room and am just about 10 miles away. While Mark is doing the work you could teach me how to weld!

[Build-It-Break-it]

Hey Stielow, nice work. Would you be able to use the bearing set up without the parking brake once its for sale? I'm going to run a hydraulic parking brake so that's why I'm asking. Also would we be able to order the parts to adapt to our existing Ford 9" ( custom axle lengths of coarse)rear ends or have to purchase an entirely new set up. Once again top notch R&D

[Stielow]

Hey Stielow, nice work. Would you be able to use the bearing set up without the parking brake once its for sale? I'm going to run a hydraulic parking brake so that's why I'm asking. Also would we be able to order the parts to adapt to our existing Ford 9" ( custom axle lengths of coarse)rear ends or have to purchase an entirely new set up. Once again top notch R&D

You can run it without the drum in hat C-6 Corvette park break. If you are swapping from a normal big bearing style set up to this the old ends can be cut off and these welded on.

[syborg tt]

Mark,

Thank you for sharing all you do.

Okay I am torn thinking about selling both of my cars to either buy the new Z28 or give Gordon all of cash for his car.

This is Gordon Rojewski's '67. It is an orginal paint '67 out of the SW USA. Gordon has been working with Sled Alley to finish it up. It has the full DSE Chassis, A Thomson 700 HP 442 LS, D&D Perf 6 Speed. etc. All the good stuff. It also has some "Stielow" tweaks on it. Gordan and I have been good freinds for a long time. This car will be awsome when it is done later this summer. And yes he is leaving the paint.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSC_0825_zps9ee4e432.jpg

[RussMurco]

Charley asked me to tell you ---- YOU SUCK

It looks awesome Mark!!
What, Charley hasn't bought it yet?!?!?! LOL

[Ron in SoCal]

Killer Mark. I really like your design, and thanks for clarifying the hubs set-up :thumbsup:

[Jr]

Forgive my ignorance, but is this a full floater rear and floating caliper?

[Stielow]

Forgive my ignorance, but is this a full floater rear and floating caliper?

It is a floater with a fixed 4 piston rear caliper.

[dontlifttoshift]

Mark, thanks for the pics of the rear hub setup. Have you put enough miles on one yet to see a bearing loosen up or is that a non issue?

[coachwinbush]

thank you

[Stielow]

Mark, thanks for the pics of the rear hub setup. Have you put enough miles on one yet to see a bearing loosen up or is that a non issue?

We run a very similar SKF bearing on the CTS-V, ZL-1 and Z/28 and we have had very few issues with them. It was one of the parts on the Z/28 that needed no upgrades during development. One set lasted the 24 endurance run on the Z/28 and were still tight and we are still running them. The 24 hour test is a accumulated 24 hour run where we just swap brake pads and tires and run the car flat out on track for tank fills of fuel.

On Red Devil, Mayhem and Chris Smiths truck they all still have almost no backlash. They also require zero maintenance.

Over all it is one of the best parts I have ever designed.

Mark

[Steve68]

"Over all it is one of the best parts I have ever designed"

and with that statement right there, you can pat yourself on the back!!!


not many can use that statement,

I was looking at the brake set up last night, very nice, well thought out,

as well as the rest of the car and shop,

[dontlifttoshift]

Thanks. I was just curious if the bearing saw a different load at zero camber as opposed to negative camber on a the applications you listed.

[raustinss]

Mark
I'm sure your more then busy with work,car,house,shop etc etc etc but, can you tell me is the "kit" going to be made to use on a 12 bolt? Or would it have to be modified?. Do you have any idea as to when DSE will be selling them? And finally cost. Reasons are I'm about to cut my factory rear end and was planning on using the gmr hybrid floater set up but I do like your set up more any help is greatly appreciated so in advance,
Thanks Ryan Austin

[jonesmoto]

Mark,
Are the wheels powder coated? If so, would you happen to know what color that is called? By the way, LOVE everything about the car and shop!
Thanks

[Musclerodz]

Mark
I'm sure your more then busy with work,car,house,shop etc etc etc but, can you tell me is the "kit" going to be made to use on a 12 bolt? Or would it have to be modified?. Do you have any idea as to when DSE will be selling them? And finally cost. Reasons are I'm about to cut my factory rear end and was planning on using the gmr hybrid floater set up but I do like your set up more any help is greatly appreciated so in advance,
Thanks Ryan Austin

should work on your 12 bolt as well as long as you change over to the correct ford ends Mark used.

[raustinss]

Well I'd prefer to not have ford parts lmao

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Well I'd prefer to not have ford parts lmao

Well it's. It not really a Ford part it's more of a Ford shape if it makes you feel better. It works for me.

Edit, it's not a ford based. The backing base is welded directly to the axle tube.

I am willing to bet it will be available as an option if when you buy a housing, similar to what SpeedTech offers.

[frankv11]

Well I'm sure I'm not the only one on the side lines waiting on release date. " please put me on the list ASAP"
Mark will custom bearing be an option on the kit incase I wanted to run Delphi ABS?
Or maybe better question should be which unit is more readily available Delphi or bosh.
Congrats on a very well made product.

[wiedemab]

We run a very similar SKF bearing on the CTS-V, ZL-1 and Z/28 and we have had very few issues with them. It was one of the parts on the Z/28 that needed no upgrades during development. One set lasted the 24 endurance run on the Z/28 and were still tight and we are still running them. The 24 hour test is a accumulated 24 hour run where we just swap brake pads and tires and run the car flat out on track for tank fills of fuel.

On Red Devil, Mayhem and Chris Smiths truck they all still have almost no backlash. They also require zero maintenance.

Over all it is one of the best parts I have ever designed.

Mark

Glad to hear that! -- Very cool part for sure.

[RussMurco]

We run a very similar SKF bearing on the CTS-V, ZL-1 and Z/28 and we have had very few issues with them. It was one of the parts on the Z/28 that needed no upgrades during development. One set lasted the 24 endurance run on the Z/28 and were still tight and we are still running them. The 24 hour test is a accumulated 24 hour run where we just swap brake pads and tires and run the car flat out on track for tank fills of fuel.
On Red Devil, Mayhem and Chris Smiths truck they all still have almost no backlash. They also require zero maintenance.
Is this bearing currently available over the counter or is this a special piece you are having made?

Over all it is one of the best parts I have ever designed.
Mark
Coming from you, that's saying something! :brix:

[wiedemab]

Is this bearing currently available over the counter or is this a special piece you are having made?

I'll let Mark confirm, but I believe he stated that if you aren't going to run the ABS setup like he has, you can simply use the ZR1 part directly from GM.

[Ron in SoCal]

[QUOTE=Ravenworks;552745]Is this bearing currently available over the counter or is this a special piece you are having made?

I'll let Mark confirm, but I believe he stated that if you aren't going to run the ABS setup like he has, you can simply use the ZR1 part directly from GM.

Brandon I think you are correct. What Mark mentioned is that he special ordered a passive sensor hub to integrate into the GM ABS system he's using. The standard ZR1 hub, which is the big daddy of SKF's line up for GM, can be had at the dealer. It's an awesome peice.

[ADiCarlo]

Not to jump subject but could we get some pictures of the cage - it looks incredibly well tucked.

Did you use DOM? And the kick downs in the trunk are they re-enforced in anyway - I see one going to the DSE crossmember but the other is attached to what I think is welded sheet metal.

Also I think you need to convince DSE to add the cooling ducts as a subframe option.

[Keithq68]

I was wondering what the difference is between the two different ABS modules.
Does the Delphi have any benefits that made you choose it over the Bosch setup?
I'm assuming there has to be some kind of benefit since you went through the trouble of having custom hubs made with the older style wheel speed sensor.

Thanks for any info you can offer.

Keith Quinn.

[89 RS]

Another awesome build, awesome shop, and that is a really cool car gathering...that's my kind of party!

[Stielow]

I was wondering what the difference is between the two different ABS modules.
Does the Delphi have any benefits that made you choose it over the Bosch setup?
I'm assuming there has to be some kind of benefit since you went through the trouble of having custom hubs made with the older style wheel speed sensor.

Thanks for any info you can offer.

Keith Quinn.

The Bosch production system required communication to a body control module over CAN. Adding the BCM in is a bit tricky. The Delphi system can run more stand alone and had been used stand alone in racing. Newer system are more linked together over CAN. As an example the brake switch and the warning lights are on the CAN bus in a C6 Corvette. So to go from a discreit input (on / off) to a CAN input to the ABS module requires a converter box.

All the newer ABS system have stability, traction, ice and snow modes incorporated. Which means it needs to communicate to the whole car via CAN. Trying to make a OE system stand alone is hard.

Bosch offers a racing stand alone system that is laptop programmable that is great but spendy. That system is very flexible.

Mark

[GregWeld]

I wish you'd volunteer to look at my Lotus 2 Eleven ABS and figure out how to make it NOT go into ICE mode when going backwards (a known bug). :>)

[Che70velle]

I wish you'd volunteer to look at my Lotus 2 Eleven ABS and figure out how to make it NOT go into ICE mode when going backwards (a known bug). :>)

Greg, my degree in theology and biblical studies doesn't quite compare to Mark's engineering degrees, but I think I can help you on this one.

When you start the Lotus, and get ready to roll out on the track, take a careful look at your gear selector. You will see an "R" which is for REVERSE, not RACE.

Sorry man, couldn't resist that one...

Mark, sorry for misdirecting the thread momentarily...

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Greg, my degree in theology and biblical studies doesn't quite compare to Mark's engineering degrees, but I think I can help you on this one.

When you start the Lotus, and get ready to roll out on the track, take a careful look at your gear selector. You will see an "R" which is for REVERSE, not RACE.

Sorry man, couldn't resist that one...

Mark, sorry for misdirecting the thread momentarily...

How can he practice his Rockfords without full reverse?

[Keithq68]

Thanks for the reply Mark.
I have been following your builds since the Mule, I've loved every one of them.
The latest car is over the top, can't wait to see it finished.
Not trying to hijack your thread but I have a few more questions now.

That's good info about the ABS, I didn't realize that the new Bosch unit required the BCM.
I have a 2010 C6 engine wiring harness for my car. I had originally bought a Delphi Z06 ABS module. The harness i have includes the connector for the Bosch unit so I bought a Bosch module. I was going to run the BCM as well to get the control for the ABS unit.
I'm running 08 hubs and speed sensors so i guess they are compatible only with the Delphi module.

I'd like to run the Delphi unit so that I don't have to buy new hubs. I haven't been able to find the connector for the Delphi unit. The dealer tells me i have to buy an entire harness.
Do you know of a supplier who sells the connector or have a GM part number?


Love the 2 Elevens Greg. My brother has one that he just bought this year. He's loving it but is having trouble with the second gear synchro.
He's looking into either a dog box or a sequential now.

Thanks.

Keith Quinn.

[GregWeld]

Love the 2 Elevens Greg. My brother has one that he just bought this year. He's loving it but is having trouble with the second gear synchro.
He's looking into either a dog box or a sequential now.

Thanks.

Keith Quinn.



Does he post as BlackPenquinn on LotusTalk??

[Stielow]

Speaking of wiring Ryan Kuhlenbeck and I are on our 4th version of wiring. Ryan is the brains behind the wiring and has it sorted out. We are wiring this whole car from scratch. Wire of spools, no kits. Our own fuse boxes and power distubution system.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSC_4627_zps46564fdd.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSC_4632_zps6ea7099a.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSC_4633_zpsff94174e.jpg

We will build the engine harness then dyno with its correct harness.

Mark

[214Chevy]

Speaking of wiring Ryan Kuhlenbeck and I are on our 4th version of wiring. Ryan is the brains behind the wireing and has it sorted out. We are wiring this whole car from scratch. Wire of spools, no kits. Our own fuse boxes and power distubution system.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSC_4627_zps46564fdd.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSC_4632_zps6ea7099a.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSC_4633_zpsff94174e.jpg

We will build the engine harness then dyno with its correct harness.

Mark

Wow....talk about customization. :idea: Sweet Mark!!

[tom091074]

Holy Crap!

[Sieg]

I've often wondered what you do in your 'spare' time, this task pretty much answers that question. :D

[GregWeld]

Since Ryan is going to be there awhile... you might as well fly out and help me with that ABS system...


I've done an awful lot of car wiring - building wiring - machine wiring... but no way would I start from scratch like that! WOW.

[syborg tt]

I've done an awful lot of car wiring - building wiring - machine wiring... but no way would I start from scratch like that! WOW.

Yes you would.

[Stielow]

Since Ryan is going to be there awhile... you might as well fly out and help me with that ABS system...


I've done an awful lot of car wiring - building wiring - machine wiring... but no way would I start from scratch like that! WOW.

With a LS9 and a E67 controller, ABS brakes, Vintage Air, Stereo, Stack Data Logging dash and Vapor Work fuel controller; there is a lot of wiring. It is just easier to do it from scratch. We have ever connecter defined for that pin is what function, color of wire and gauge. We copied a Corvette ZR-1 for wire colors and sizes. We can trouble shoot the system with a GM Tech 2 and the factory wiring manual. Some of the connectors are hard to find but over the last couple years Ryan has found them all. He does like MIL Spec connectors which drive the price up a bit but allows the engine or other harness to be removed from the main body harness.

To get all the wire in the correct gauge and strips Ryan had to order some of it custom. A bit over kill but it is nice to have the OE wire style and color coding.

"If it is worth doing it is worth over doing"

Mark

[GregWeld]

With a LS9 and a E67 controller, ABS brakes, Vintage Air, Stereo, Stack Data Logging dash and Vapor Work fuel controller; there is a lot of wiring. It is just easier to do it from scratch. We have every connecter defined for that pin is what function, color of wire and gauge. We copied a Corvette ZR-1 for wire colors and sizes. We can trouble shoot the system with a GM Tech 2 and the factory wiring manual. Some of the connectors are hard to find but over the last couple years Ryan has found them all. He does like MIL Spec connectors which drive the price up a bit but allows the engine or other harness to be removed from the main body harness.

To get all the wire in the correct gauge and strips Ryan had to order some of it custom. A bit over kill but it is nice to have the OE wire style and color coding.

"If it is worth doing it is worth over doing"

Mark



Oh.... I wasn't saying I "wouldn't start from scratch like that" because I thought it was the wrong thing to do.... I was saying that because even with as much wiring as I've done --- I wouldn't personally have the talent to do this job! It's very impressive - and even more impressive with the amount of electronics - and mixing and matching and communications that are going on.

[Musclerodz]

"If it is worth doing it is worth over doing"

Mark


my new quote. I have always been impressed with the integration your able to achieve especially with the reliability you have. I guess been a GM engineer and refining your builds over the last 15 cars goes along ways towards that, plus working with some of the best guys in the business doesn't hurt either.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

With a LS9 and a E67 controller, ABS brakes, Vintage Air, Stereo, Stack Data Logging dash and Vapor Work fuel controller; there is a lot of wiring. It is just easier to do it from scratch. We have ever connecter defined for that pin is what function, color of wire and gauge. We copied a Corvette ZR-1 for wire colors and sizes. We can trouble shoot the system with a GM Tech 2 and the factory wiring manual. Some of the connectors are hard to find but over the last couple years Ryan has found them all. He does like MIL Spec connectors which drive the price up a bit but allows the engine or other harness to be removed from the main body harness.

To get all the wire in the correct gauge and strips Ryan had to order some of it custom. A bit over kill but it is nice to have the OE wire style and color coding.

"If it is worth doing it is worth over doing"

Mark
If you have the ability and tools to do it, it's the only way to do it right.

Where do you source your wire?

[Stielow]

If you have the ability and tools to do it, it's the only way to do it right.

Where do you source your wire?

We had Wyetch and Terminal Supply quote the order the used the two quotes to get a better price. We ended up getting the wire from Terminal Supply in Troy MI to save shipping.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

We had Wyetch and Terminal Supply quote the order the used the two quotes to get a better price. We ended up getting the wire from Terminal Supply in Troy MI to save shipping.

thank you Mark.

[Keithq68]

Does he post as BlackPenquinn on LotusTalk??

Yes that's him Greg.

Mark, would Ryan sell me a connector for the Delphi ABS module?
If so, could you post or PM me his contact info?

Thanks

Keith Quinn

[RussMurco]

Speaking of wiring Ryan Kuhlenbeck and I are on our 4th version of wiring. Ryan is the brains behind the wiring and has it sorted out. We are wiring this whole car from scratch. Wire of spools, no kits. Our own fuse boxes and power distubution system.
http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSC_4627_zps46564fdd.jpg
We will build the engine harness then dyno with its correct harness.

Mark

I'm obviously not an engineer so I'm just trying to comprehend how much time it would take me to plan-out a complete wiring system, starting with just wire, a fuse box, and a bunch connectors... I'm guessing a full week of just drawing the schematic, another week to plan-out routing, probably 2 weeks to install all the connectors, and another full week for complete installation! I cant say it doesn't look like fun, though! Any tips you feel like posting for this part of the project will be much appreciated, Mark!

[fleetus macmullitz]

In other news...wire stocks rose.


:thankyou:

[next69]

Mark, if your car already has provisions for wheel speed sensors what would be a good cost estimate to install ABS? I know you need wheel speed sensors, some sort of controller and some wiring. I am surprised no one is offering a kit yet, at least that I have seen, my guess it is a concern of liability that is preventing a retail solution.

Keep up the great work, cant wait to see the next update.

[The T-man]

wow...

[Z06Joe]

Wow indeed!!! You guys have got your work cut out for you!!!!

[Stielow]

Wow indeed!!! You guys have got your work cut out for you!!!!

Engine harness is done. Working on body harness now.

Mark

[Vince@Meanstreets]

lets see it...unless its

[Stielow]

I got tired of wiring so I'm working on my diff and transmission cooling. I'm using a set up from a ZL-1 to cool my diff. I had D&D performance modify my Tremec T-56 Magnum to accept a stock TR6060 oil pump. I will use that mechanical pump to pump transmission fluid to the radiator to cool it in a oil to water oil cooler in the end tank. Then the cooled trans fluid gets pumped to the back of the car to go to a oil to oil diff cooler. I'm using the stock ZL-1cooler (part number 20931169). The trans fluid then goes back to the transmission.

We use this system on both the Z/28 and the ZL-1. It works great!

The CAD picture is the diff cooler in the Z/28. I used the ZL-1 cooler because it is 30% bigger.

So more OE tech in my hot rod.

Mark

[ccracin]

Pay attention kids. These are the moments that will help seperate you from the pack down the road!

Great work Mark. I love seeing how you integrate OE tech into your Hot Rods!

[wiedemab]

Interesting! I remember the discussion about this system in one of the Z28 videos, but I guess I didn't really think through it.

So you are using the engine coolant to cool the trans fluid - typical
You are using the trans fluid to cool the differential - interesting

Are normal manual trans temps that much cooler than a differential or does this only work because the trans fluid is being "pre-cooled" before being sent back to the diff cooler?

I'll bet that adds a lot of capacity to the trans fluid system!

[214Chevy]

I got tired of wiring so I'm working on my diff and transmission cooling. I'm using a set up from a ZL-1 to cool my diff. I had D&D performance modify my Tremec T-56 Magnum to accept a stock TR6060 oil pump. I will use that mechanical pump to pump transmission fluid to the radiator to cool it in a oil to water oil cooler in the end tank. Then the cooled trans fluid gets pumped to the back of the car to go to a oil to oil diff cooler. I'm using the stock ZL-1cooler (part number 20931169). The trans fluid then goes back to the transmission.

We use this system on both the Z/28 and the ZL-1. It works great!

The CAD picture is the diff cooler in the Z/28. I used the ZL-1 cooler because it is 30% bigger.

So more OE tech in my hot rod.

Mark

Uhhh...Mark, I have the slightest idea of what you just said as I'm not a racer or track guy. But, I don't understand logic and reasoning...this is just bad a$$. Wow!! :headscratch: :faint: How do you do it...I mean how do you think of this stuff? :idea:

[GregWeld]

Wow --- it might be fun to try to outbid Charley for this one.....



What temps are you trying to achieve with this setup.... assuming it works just the same in this application as it does on the Z/28 & ZL/1 you mentioned.

[Stielow]

Interesting! I remember the discussion about this system in one of the Z28 videos, but I guess I didn't really think through it.

So you are using the engine coolant to cool the trans fluid - typical
You are using the trans fluid to cool the differential - interesting

Are normal manual trans temps that much cooler than a differential or does this only work because the trans fluid is being "pre-cooled" before being sent back to the diff cooler?

I'll bet that adds a lot of capacity to the trans fluid system!

The system now holds 4.5 quarts of trans fluid I'll need to chech the diff volume but it should be a little more also.

I'll need to look up the kW heat rejection from the trans but it is a lot less than the diff. Off memory the diff needs 3 kW of cooling and the trans needs 1 kW and the oil cooler in the rad rejects 5 kW so the fluid is over cooled at the rad then sent to the diff. The trans fluid leaving the heat exchanger in the diff is still cool enough to cool the trans. We did it this way in production due to the cost of pumps and coolers. The pump in the Tremec trans is relatively cheap compared to a electric pump. We can run a ZL-1 and a Z/28 on track for tank fulls of fuel with no over temp issues. Before we added this cooling loop a ZL-1 would over temp the diff in 5 laps. I think the C-6 Vetts have a similar system.

Since I added diff coolers to my project my ring and pinion life has gone way up. . It also allows only one set of -6 lines to the front of the car. On Red Devil I had -6 AN for the trans and -8 AN for the diff due to the length of the lines and the viscosity of the fluid when it was cold. This system is also lighter that two big Weldon electric pumps. Red Devil still has the original ring and pinion in it from when I built the car and it is quite.

Another side benefit to this set up is it can also pre-warm your diff and trans in the pits. On cold mornings at the track if you let the car idle in natural the trans pump is working moving fluid to the red where it is heated then to the diff and the trans warming them. Nice for 35 degree mornings like at OUSCI.

At 740 HP to the tires diff and trans cooling become real issues.

My trans cooler in my rad is around 10 kw, bigger that the Z/28's, due to my higher output.

Cool oil is happy oil.

[wiedemab]

Thanks for the additional details!

[Stielow]

Wow --- it might be fun to try to outbid Charley for this one.....



What temps are you trying to achieve with this setup.... assuming it works just the same in this application as it does on the Z/28 & ZL/1 you mentioned.

Greg

You really want to keep the trans and the diff below 325 F with a synthetic. I like to see under 300 F and over 210 F for track usage. If you get over 350 F you will start killing seals and hurting parts.


Mark

[Evan Iroc-Z]

This is fantastic!! I am not building anything to this caliber, but am working towards a track car with my IROC. I have been trying to figure out a way to cool my manual trans and diff without all of the pumps and lines. This actually answers my dilemma. Now onto the next one...where to find the money to buy these parts.