1985 Monte Carlo SS known as Barney

[mfain]

Lance,

Do you see any signs of detonation?

Pappy

[SSLance]

Lance,

Do you see any signs of detonation?

Pappy

A lot on #4, the one that cracked and burned and just a couple small pits on #1. Tops of all the rest of the pistons look great, including #8 with broken ring land.

[z28cp]

I'm still very happy with the power this combo made so I'll not be making any drastic changes to the recipe, just fortifying some of the weaker parts inside and putting it all back together once again. It'll just take a bit longer and cost a bit more is all.

Same situation with mine. Just upgraded the weak parts. Rods, crank. One thing we did was replace all 8 sleeves (Brodix aluminum block). We needed to replace 4. Then we would have needed to bore them .030" over, to match the other 4. Or, replace all 8, and now have a standard bore block, which will allow for some freedom in the future.

Only money... :G-Dub:

[mfain]

A lot on #4, the one that cracked and burned and just a couple small pits on #1. Tops of all the rest of the pistons look great, including #8 with broken ring land.

Might want to investigate the source of the detonation - usually an octane, timing, or AFR problem. Cast pistons tend to give up early (broken ring lands or cracks at the wrist pin), but even good forged pistons don't like detonation. Were you running an AFR gage or monitoring EGTs? With a nominal compression ratio, octane should not have been a problem, barring excessive timing advance. Sounds like there might have been something in the tune at some point that was causing problems - just my opinion.

Pappy

[SSLance]

I was not data logging at the time, but I have plenty of WOT logs showing the tune performing as desired.

I'm still leaning more toward something happening in that cylinder that raised compression or lowered octane enough to cause the melting of the edge of the piston. There were several mechanical failures there and all of the rest of the cylinders were fine.

We may have been close to the edge and a minor variance put it over, not discounting that...but if it truly was only tune related, it would have shown more damage across the board and most likely would have happened earlier.

It had been pushing antifreeze out recovery tank for two events prior, indicating the start of the real problem. The burnt piston is more of a result of that problem than the tune.

But yes, I probably will back it back away from the edge next go ahead.

[Tinker]

Too bad you had to tear it apart again Lance, but addressing the possible shortcomings will continue to make your engine more bulletproof. I enjoy following your journey because except for a minor setback such as this your car is a contender amongst much higher dollar builds out there. Keep it up and let us all learn and enjoy with you as you go.

[CamaroAJ]

Just throwing this out there, what were the ring gaps set to?

[SSLance]

Just throwing this out there, what were the ring gaps set to?


That is on my list of things to check.

[Vegas69]

More tuning on the Holley. Found and corrected several issues which created the touchy throttle and have it MUCH better now. Super easy to be very smooth on throttle now. Also added some enrichment on MAP rate of change which it didn't have before, helped tremendously with tip in power. Can't wait to race it again Sunday.

Video for attention...

FNbP-xMvVDI

Had a pretty scary hung throttle while testing yesterday. Had a green light with no traffic in front so made a pretty hard hit in first and second gear, then the throttle hung wide open going to third. Pedal was on the floor so I immediately hit the key to switch it off. After I caught my breath while still coasting, I started it again with same result. Once stopped I pulled air cleaner but didn't see the culprit, fiddled with throttle cable and all seemed good so I started it again and it was fine. Once I got it back home, I discovered this...

tY0R8E4zBiU

The screws holding the throttle position sensor had come loose, one completely gone and the other finally loose enough that the shaft jumped the slot in the sensor and the sensor held the throttle open. Yes, the replacement screws got a dose of loc-tite upon reinstall and yes, throttle application is much smoother now.

I was running a datalog during the hung throttle...finally got up the nerve to look at it.

The green line is RPM... At least I know my rev limiter works now... :D

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-MSRBjrP/0/1dac1c69/XL/20191101_075124-XL.jpg

This may be the answer you are looking for. A long rev limiter hit is tough on your bottom end, especially with cast pistons. When I had my ZL-1 built, my engine builder preferred I raise the rev limiter vs. bounce it off repeatedly.

[SSLance]

OMG Todd, I had forgotten all about that incident.

You very well may be onto something there.

[Vegas69]

It appears it got wicked lean too.

[SSLance]

It appears it got wicked lean too.

Yes it did, but keep in mind that the zoom in on the chart represents just a little over 1 second. That said, it was still a brutal hit on the internals for sure.

And me... :D Can't believe I forgot about that until you brought it up.

[mfain]

It appears it got wicked lean too.


That is what I was concerned about. Lean leads to detonation which is very hard on cast pistons. Melted pistons, cracked wrist pin bosses, and broken ring lands are common indicators.

Pappy

Edit: Lance, is your ECU's rev limiter ignition or fuel based? If it is fuel based (cuts the fuel), some builders recommend adding an MSD spark rev limiter set just below the ECU limit to avoid a lean condition when the engine is on the limiter.

[SSLance]

Pappy, the ECU is set to pull spark at 6200 and when it hits 6400 it pulls spark and fuel.

[mfain]

Pappy, the ECU is set to pull spark at 6200 and when it hits 6400 it pulls spark and fuel.

That should be about perfect.

Pappy

[SSLance]

It has now been 48 days since I hurt the engine in Barney taking it off the road.

I typically try to not take it off the road for longer than 3 weeks at any one time. Careful planning and working fast helps me get the car back on the road ready to enjoy quickly. The EFI swap took about 7 weeks which was longer than normal, but it was a HUGE job.

I have to say, it is really starting to bug me that I haven't even decided on a path to repair yet, much less actually started buying parts and getting things done. This will be the longest this car has been down since I first restored the underside of it back in 2008. I said there would be no hurry as race season was basically done for me anyway, then this whole Covid-19 deal happened...but I'm ready to get it moving forward soon I hope.

I've met a local machinist that is working on some pricing for me. Soon then after I'll be making some final decision on which path to take.

Meanwhile...I'll keep working on the Jeep.

Stay safe everyone...

[SSLance]

Progress?

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5xC9tX4/0/XL/i-5xC9tX4-XL.jpg

[Che70velle]

Lance, that’s not an LS engine. You grabbed the wrong stuff! 😜

[SSLance]

Lance, that’s not an LS engine. You grabbed the wrong stuff! 😜


What?!?! :D

[SSLance]

Big beautiful pistons that have been ordered...

https://www.jepistons.com/media/custom_imgs/full_image/170817-BAC.png

https://www.jepistons.com/media/custom_imgs/full_image/170817-SID-01.png

https://www.jepistons.com/pistons-130974

With this ring set...

https://www.cnc-motorsports.com/je-premium-race-series-piston-ring-set-j10008-4010-5.html

Which will be hung on these rods...

https://www.cnc-motorsports.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/c/scathbeam.jpg

Scat H-beam connecting rods are the strongest Scat connecting rods available by Scat. These Scat H-beam connecting rods are perfect for supercharged and nitrous applications. These rods incorporate a special doweled cap for specific cap-to-rod alignment and are profiled with extra clearance for stroker applications. Forged 4340 material with ARP 7/16 8740 rod bolts make them very strong and affordable. H Beam rods with ARP 8740 Bolts are rated to 750 horsepower on small blocks and 850 on big blocks.

https://www.cnc-motorsports.com/scat-rods-2-350-5850-2100-h-beam-connecting-rods.html

The new rod length and comp height on the new pistons will put the top of the piston at the same height as the OE pistons. The OE piston had a 18 cc dish and the new piston has a 14 cc dish so that along with maybe a touch of decking and cleanup on the heads might make for just a bump in compression ratio but not a big deal. Bottom end should be safe to 7,000 RPM, it'll be interesting to see how high the top end can go now.

The rods and rings are on their way to me already, the pistons have to be special cut because of a bore size change, JE said 3-4 weeks, CNC said 5 weeks... We'll see. Block is disassembled ready to clean. Builder won't start machine work on block until pistons are in hand to be sure it gets cut perfectly. He can get started freshening the heads up though.

Glad to have this decision making part out of the way, now just have to find the money to pay for it all and wait in parts jail for a bit.

[SSLance]

So I finally uploaded all of the pics I pulled down from photobucket a couple of years ago...and ran across some doozies.

Here she was in all her glory not long after I bought it...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Photobucket-Pics/i-DMPzb4T/0/e0b70399/L/Pose2-L.jpg

I had cleaned up and restored the bottom side before this picture was taken but hadn't touched much else.

305 vs 383

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Photobucket-Pics/i-CL32qgF/0/7aceb480/L/OldNew-L.jpg

Newly tinted windows

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Photobucket-Pics/i-3FJg2V2/0/895a3097/XL/P8160369-XL.jpg

GTO seat install

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Photobucket-Pics/i-3SRmJSW/0/36f610b9/XL/P6060920-XL.jpg

New Billet Wheels

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Photobucket-Pics/i-CwVkGSw/0/9c6ca2e6/XL/P6060905-XL.jpg

Then I discovered racing...

These was taken at my very first test N tune...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Photobucket-Pics/i-xKKgpbc/0/a5930634/XL/Pa6180448-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Photobucket-Pics/i-GWjZNKd/0/3b888b83/XL/Pa6180439-XL.jpg

It was all downhill after that... :D Thanks everyone for going along on this crazy ride with me.

New pistons have been cut and are on the way to me. Stay tuned...

[WSSix]

I'm glad you got rid of the 4x4 look, Lance. It's a great looking car.

[87SS]

Lance,

Did the GTO seats require a lot of work to fit? Can you share some info. on how you fit them in? Seat tracks etc.

Thanks

[87SS]

Seats look very nice by the way!

[SSLance]

Lance,

Did the GTO seats require a lot of work to fit? Can you share some info. on how you fit them in? Seat tracks etc.

Thanks

Yes, they took some very custom brackets to make them fit. Its a tight squeeze for sure. Main obstacle is the crossmember on the floor on the passenger side, you have to raise the rear mounts up pretty high to get the seat tracks over the crossmember.

I'll look for the pictures of the brackets and post them up. As far as I know, I was the first to do this swap bit several others followed after and we all loved them. Search on montecarloss.com board and you'll see them.

[SSLance]

Lance,

Did the GTO seats require a lot of work to fit? Can you share some info. on how you fit them in? Seat tracks etc.

Thanks

Here are some pics of the brackets we made to adapt the GTO seats in.

Passenger seat

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Photobucket-Pics/i-r8ZJwmL/0/0c7beb4b/XL/GTOSeatBracketsPassseat3-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Photobucket-Pics/i-qSKjPvS/0/4ca5ab99/XL/GTOSeatBracketsPassseat2-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Photobucket-Pics/i-JwdF7BJ/0/781e2a2f/XL/GTOSeatBracketsPassseat1-XL.jpg

The driver's seat didn't have to be raised as much as you can see here.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Photobucket-Pics/i-Dd2jZC5/0/098b653f/XL/GTOSeatBracketsDriversseat3-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Photobucket-Pics/i-36nsDL6/0/ef4d9506/XL/GTOSeatBracketsDriversseat2-XL.jpg

Full power function was kept, here is the driver seat all the way back.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Photobucket-Pics/i-z9ZPCWM/0/b5d847b2/XL/GTOSeatsInstalled04-XL.jpg

And all the way forward

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Photobucket-Pics/i-sRM593W/0/648167ec/XL/GTOSeatsInstalled03-XL.jpg

They just touched the arm rest on the door panel and the center console and folded forward just like the stock seats for rear seat access. And the stock seatbelts worked great with them. I LOVED them...way better than the OEM seats. They just wouldn't work with the harnesses I wanted to run so they went to a new home.

[Goosesdad]

Well done!

[87SS]

Thank you Lance for posting the seat info.

[SSLance]

Got a big brown truck delivery at 930 pm last night


https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DvHLwLc/0/X2/i-DvHLwLc-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-BXfhXzj/0/X2/i-BXfhXzj-X2.jpg

Parts are at the builders, work starts this week prepping everything.

[SSLance]

....

[waynieZ]

Must have been tough to get to sleep after that delivery.

[SSLance]

One of the things about my EFI install that bugged me was this.

xaTEl26YHIs


Because I used an internally regulated fuel module, I ran just one fuel line up to the engine and dead headed the other end of the fuel rail.

Here you see the -6 feed line attached to the rear port on the fuel rail with a plug in the front port.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-khbMHKG/0/f9a0c504/XL/20190523_160715-XL.jpg

Apparently it is common with a dead headed system for the injector pulses to send vibrations back through the fuel line. This is what is causing my floor to vibrate. Here is how the fuel line is attached to the floor under the passenger foot well.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/i-K2HHnn6/0/53c5ddac/XL/61965-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/i-4rzZZQR/0/4492e0d7/XL/61966-XL.jpg

What is strange is if one or the other clamps is removed, the floor doesn't vibrate.

I heard of fuel dampers possibly working to quiet this down so after a little investigation, I picked this up.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-VNTs236/0/ee12c680/XL/20200516_112210-XL.jpg

http://www.radiumauto.com/Fuel-Pulse-Damper-Inline-Kits-P751.aspx

This also gave me a place to put my new Holley Fuel pressure sensor. I then built a bracket to mount the damper and sensor to the firewall.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-RkF3MHf/0/8eeef9ae/XL/20200605_105221-XL.jpg

The 90 degree -6 Hose fitting on the existing fuel line attaches to the input side of the damper and I'll have to make a new fuel line to go from the output side to the fuel rail once the engine is back in place. The fuel pressure sensor will plug right into the circuit on the Holley harness and then I'll be able to verify and log fuel pressure with the ECU.

Hope to have a progress report on the engine itself soon.

[WSSix]

Wild. I've never heard of the fuel line causing an issue like that.

[andrewb70]

Wild. I've never heard of the fuel line causing an issue like that.

That's because modern EFI engine have fuel dampers built into the fuel rails.

Andrew

[SSLance]

That's because modern EFI engine have fuel dampers built into the fuel rails.

Andrew


So, think about this as well. Modern fuel rails are all sequential fire, so 8 smaller injectors firing one at a time. This setup has 4 larger injectors operating in batch fire...so all 4 hitting at once each cycle. Much larger hammer effect back on the fuel line.

[SSLance]

We have progress to report...look what's back on the lift once again!!

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-LqfDspP/0/8c107e5d/X2/20200615_203108-X2.jpg

The builder is very happy with how the crank turned out, says they did "exactly what he asked them to do". He said it spins over very easily with the mains torqued down.

Here are some pics of the short block assembled.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-JV5WGWf/0/a5dee146/XL/62519-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-HGcQJss/0/561307a4/O/62521.jpg

Some of the additional clearance work he did to clear the new rods.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-5b894xs/0/c5c33245/XL/20200616_091125-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-FSn7CRQ/0/655ef685/XL/20200616_091148-XL.jpg

He should have it wrapped up by the end of this week if no more hiccups.

Looks like I need to get busy prepping the hole it's going to go back in...

[WSSix]

Very nice! Glad to see it's coming together for you, Lance.

[SSLance]

Took care of some piddly things today in preparation to put the new bullet back in place. I moved the oil pressure sensor from the boss above the filter to this boss up by the distributor. This keeps it away from the headers better and will give a better representation of the oil pressure on the top side of the engine.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-zdKDJwK/0/fa1e8724/XL/20200622_135153-XL.jpg

Also got the distributor back in place finally...leveling the engine out helped stand the oil pump drive straight up and centered which let the distributor fall right into place.

Since I moved the oil pressure sensor and added a fuel pressure sensor, I had to dig into the bundle of wires under the AC and on the firewall and since I was there anyway, I cleaned them up a bit. The fuel pressure sensor lead to the ECU was tucked up under there last summer since it wasn't being used


https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-2FtmQdD/0/84aa93ba/O/20200622_104701.jpg

May not look like much but it's MUCH neater than before.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-4ZVGsGj/0/7ea06f8c/O/20200622_143825.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-dzKZGmX/0/27998fdb/XL/20200622_143841.jpg

Cleaned up the alternator plug as well.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-4mRxBBQ/0/e5fe5c06/XL/20200622_144240.jpg

I then used a tap to clean all the bolt holes in the heads and block and put the engine mounts on. This gets me pretty close to ready to put it in the car. Might get around to that tomorrow, we'll see how it goes.

[ScotI]

Clean engine compartment.

[SSLance]

15 minutes from this...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-ZcvqKMs/0/3db2202f/XL/20200624_093124-XL.jpg

To this...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-h4x7mNr/0/5f1769a7/XL/20200624_101744-XL.jpg

And that included taking the hood off and putting it back on and lining it up.

I might have just a bit too much practice at this...

[Panteracer]

Lance,
Good to see it is going together
Yes you do get good at pulling and
reinstalling engines if you run them hard
and have had the same vehicle for a while

My Firebird has eaten 8 engines and the current
one has been in and out 3 times now
Pantera has only been 3 times

Practice makes perfect

Hope it runs great

Bob

[SSLance]

Headers and transmission in place...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-8bLxwjX/0/37c92b57/XL/20200626_131139-XL.jpg

Good thing I don't do this for a living, I'd go broke.

Only small parts left on the table now, hopefully the rest goes pretty quick and pain free.

[ScotI]

What headers are you running? They kind-of look like the 3/4 length variety in that image.

[SSLance]

I guess you would call them a "mid'length". Longer than a shorty but much shorter than a long tube.

https://images.holley.com/2466-1hkr_02.jpg

https://www.holley.com/products/exhaust/headers_and_exhaust_manifolds/all_headers/parts/2466-1HKR

For my application they are probably as good as it would get. A couple spark plugs are a bear to get in and the rear passenger side bolt can only be accessed from under the car. A skinny 5/16s box end can tighten the rest of the bolts down okay.

[ScotI]

Ok.... About the same thing I've used on the G-bodies I've done. I call them 3/4 length as most refer the street-rod style that dump like RamHorns as 'shorties'.

[SSLance]

Had to make another run to Speedway this afternoon to get another fitting to finish the fuel line up, then it freaking leaked a little bit anyway. I strategically placed a few fire extinguishers around and fired it off anyway...and it hit and fired off on the first hit of the key. Took a quick look around and topped off the coolant, then shut it down to wait for my neighbor Mark to get there. Then we fired it back off and he held it up around 2,000 RPM for 20 minutes or so while I watched for leaks runs, drips or errors and fire...

jSSuY4-ZVQ0

It sounds awesome and seems to be super smooth. I marked the intake and distributor before taking it apart and basically just put the distributor right back on the marks and it seems pretty dang close. No hint of smoke out the exhaust, cooling system works perfectly, hot idle oil pressure is almost double what it was before...and no strange noises...so far I'm very happy.

Now I get to re-do the fuel line, then put the shifter in and make sure the clutch is all good...then put a timing light on it and dial that in...then it's time to hit the streets!!!

[Tinker]

While re-doing a motor hurts the wallet, its a good excuse to upgrade some items, and the sound of the first exhaust note of a fresh motor has to rank right up there with any automotive pleasures.

Break it in and let er rip Lance.

[WSSix]

Congrats, Lance! Glad you got it all back together. Have fun breaking it in.

[SSLance]

First drive in the books! All good...

Man does is accelerate smoother now. I've had people tell me before it vibrated under acceleration but I've always just thought that's how it is. Now I know what they were talking about. It is SO much smoother than before.

Power is good, I didn't beat on it too hard but enough to realize it's spiking lean on hard tip in and waits until fuel catches up before it takes off like a banshee. I've already sent the logs and file to the tuner and we'll get that cleaned up right quick. It's making a bit less vacuum at idle, so pulling fuel out there and adding a TON of fuel at WOT middle RPM range. We had the comp % limited to 15% since the last tune was so dialed in, he adjusted that out also to help dial it in.

Email just came in with new tune. Time to upload it and go drive again!!

[ScotI]

First drive in the books! All good...

Man does is accelerate smoother now. I've had people tell me before it vibrated under acceleration but I've always just thought that's how it is. Now I know what they were talking about. It is SO much smoother than before.

Power is good, I didn't beat on it too hard but enough to realize it's spiking lean on hard tip in and waits until fuel catches up before it takes off like a banshee. I've already sent the logs and file to the tuner and we'll get that cleaned up right quick. It's making a bit less vacuum at idle, so pulling fuel out there and adding a TON of fuel at WOT middle RPM range. We had the comp % limited to 15% since the last tune was so dialed in, he adjusted that out also to help dial it in.

Email just came in with new tune. Time to upload it and go drive again!!

Is there anything specific you attribute to the vibration reduction beside just a pro/machine-shop balancing vs. OE crate short block assembly?

[SSLance]

Most of it is probably from balancing the clutch.

2nd tune got it much closer. Its still asking for more fuel 3500-5000 rpm at WOT...which is good because that means its making more power there.

All else still great. I'll nut and bolt everything tomorrow and drop another tune in it...then maybe take some video.

Oh, and now my injectors vibrate my dash instead of my floor...

[SSLance]

I have about 100 miles on the new build so far, tuning has gone well and the new install bugs all seem to be worked out. Very happy with it so far. It is much smoother now thanks to the great balance and it winds up a bit faster than before.

s7Xiuz4PJu4

[ScotI]

Same cam right? Are you guys 'helping' the tuning or are the changes from the self learn functionality of the set-up?

[SSLance]

Same cam... Bit more compression, bit more dwell because of rod length change and revs faster because of better balance.

The learn table initially asked for some stuff that was pretty strange. We chased it for a while and figured out we were going the wrong way. We found a couple of little things that were contributing to the "strangeness", fixed those and now we are back on the right track getting it real close once again. It's been pretty close all along, we are just fine tuning it trying to make it as good as it can be.

The process basically is to drive the car letting it learn and compensate live, then we look at the learn table once back in the garage and decide how to make permanent changes to the base fuel table etc.

[Che70velle]

Car sounds really good Lance.

[SSLance]

I had my car out on the road yesterday. Weather finally broke and we had mid 70s yesterday morning. I have to say, the new engine LOVED the cooler weather. :D

After the drive I sent my tuner Andrew the GCF and in true Andrew fashion, he liked what he saw but wanted to "try" a few things differently. He monkeyed around with the air temp enrichment, the AE vs TPS table and some stuff via teamviewer live on the idle. It was fun to mess with it again, been too long since weather was good enough to enjoy tinkering on it.

Today the plan is to pull the oil filter and run it over to the builder so he can cut open and analyze. Hopefully it's all good and I can put a new filter on, top off the Valvoline VR1 20W50 racing oil and go racing next weekend. I'm registered to run local SCCA event on Sept 20.

[mfain]

I had my car out on the road yesterday. Weather finally broke and we had mid 70s yesterday morning. I have to say, the new engine LOVED the cooler weather. :D

After the drive I sent my tuner Andrew the GCF and in true Andrew fashion, he liked what he saw but wanted to "try" a few things differently. He monkeyed around with the air temp enrichment, the AE vs TPS table and some stuff via teamviewer live on the idle. It was fun to mess with it again, been too long since weather was good enough to enjoy tinkering on it.

Today the plan is to pull the oil filter and run it over to the builder so he can cut open and analyze. Hopefully it's all good and I can put a new filter on, top off the Valvoline VR1 20W50 racing oil and go racing next weekend. I'm registered to run local SCCA event on Sept 20.

Lance,

NASA is running at Inde in late Oct. I went to a Proautosports event there last weekend and the weather was pretty good - should be great in Oct. Also went to the new track at Maricopa - Apex. Nice and close, and I will be looking for events there. I'll keep you posted.

Pappy

[SSLance]

Yes please, let me know Pappy. Friends of mine were up at Inde last weekend, the heat and a scheduling conflict kept me from making it.

Plus, well...I'm just not ready to treat this new engine the way I treated the old one. :D Yet...

Can't afford to do this again any time soon...

[WSSix]

You planning to dyno the new engine once you get some miles on her, Lance? Glad it's worked out so well for you.

[SSLance]

Finally got back out on course Sunday after a 7 month long break. Had a blast running our "modified" event, was a bummer to not get too see those that ran the afternoon session but hopefully by next event the restrictions will be lifted.

Here are the results... http://www.azsolo.com/backup/index.php/events-info/results

I was 17th raw time, 18th pax and finished 0.16 seconds out of first place in a packed CAM T class. Pretty happy with that, had a blast racing with James all day for the class win, congrats to him on that.

I've watched all the videos back, multiple times and spent some time talking with others about the course and times and watching other videos. I think I could have got a bit more out of the car with better line choice (keeping the course shorter) and maybe been more aggressive on the start. That said, I still think it did pretty dang well.

The new engine and more importantly the tune fixes REALLY helped increase the mid range power as well as making it pretty manageable to put down. Other than aerating the power steering fluid on my first run, the powertrain performed flawlessly all day.

The only suspension adjustment I made to the car during the run group was to add one round of rear brake bias and then back a half round back out after 1 run. It is amazing to me how just one turn on the knob can change it enough to lock the back brakes up first before the fronts.

Here is my fastest run of the day with the Solostorm data overlayed.

ya588y1aWio

The new version of Solostorm took some getting used to but in the end is MUCH easier to deal with than the older version I was running. I just need to get more of our Region's drivers to start using it so we can compare to each other's runs and all get better. It's an invaluable tool...

[WSSix]

Nice work, Lance. I'm glad you were able to get it back out there. 7 months is pretty quick I'd say.

[SSLance]

Nice work, Lance. I'm glad you were able to get it back out there. 7 months is pretty quick I'd say.


Thanks Trey... Technically I only missed the March and April local SCCA events. I guess I picked a good time to blow it up huh? :D

[SSLance]

Strangely, I didn't take one picture while performing my latest upgrade. Not one...

So text will have to do to keep you all in the loop. A friend graciously offered to loan me a third member with a Gleason Torsen differential and 3.89:1 gears so we swapped it in this morning.

My Detroit Locker had been acting a bit funny ever since the track day when I hurt the engine and I didn't quite trust it anymore. It started shuddering on decel and making all sorts of weird clanks and clunks and had a "dartiness" to it on the street. Plus, I have been wanting to ditch it ever since the new big sway bar install up front as it just isn't needed any longer and it detriments were outweighing it's good traits.

I was anxious to see how much metal was in the bottom of the case and what else we may find and honestly, it all looked and felt pretty normal. Gears look decent still as well. IF there is anything wrong with it, it's inside the locker itself.

Driving the Gleason is pleasurable for sure. It basically acts and feels like an open differential until you stab the gas enough to spin a tire which it then instantly and smoothly engages as a locker and spins both equally. No strange dartiness, no clunks or clangs, just smooth operating. The 3.89 gear is great for street driving. Haven't had it out on the highway yet but I expect it to shine there as well.

For SCCA\second gear courses I also expect it to shine. Looking at drive ratio calculators it appears that it'll top out at 71 mph at 6500 RPM which is perfect.

First gear Good Guys courses it hurts a bit more though. 6500 with the 3.50 was 51 mph while 6500 with the 3.89 will be 47 mph. 7,000 RPM gets it back up to around 51 mph though. I may be just a bit limited on top speed in first gear but it should pull harder getting there and the Torsen should make getting around the tight turns better as well so who knows...

We'll race it next Saturday with SCCA, that will be it's first real test. Personally...I can't wait to feel how it acts in the first high speed sweeper. I know I'm gonna LOVE it. I'm pretty sure I'll dig the lower gear for pulling out of corners as well.

[SSLance]

Man does my car like the 3.89 gear on the street! I've had a 3.50 gear in it forever, cant believe the difference that little bit of a lower gear makes. The WOT shifts land right in the powerband and the car just keeps on pulling hard. Still loving the Gleason as well.

[ScotI]

Man does my car like the 3.89 gear on the street! I've had a 3.50 gear in it forever, cant believe the difference that little bit of a lower gear makes. The WOT shifts land right in the powerband and the car just keeps on pulling hard. Still loving the Gleason as well.

What size tires these days? Not sure if they were changed since earlier in the thread.

[SSLance]

275/35/18 RE71s about 25.5" tall new, 25.0" tall in current condition.

I've run these ever since going to the 18s about 3.5 years ago.

[WSSix]

I have 3.90s in the TA, Lance. I love them. I could have easily gone 4.10s as highway speeds in sixth still puts me right at 2000rpms. 26 inch rear tire I want to say.

Do you have a lightweight flywheel, too? I have a Fidanza aluminum unit. Rev match down shifting is so easy as it revs so freely.

Glad you're enjoying the new rear gear ratio.

[jarhead]

Man does my car like the 3.89 gear on the street! I've had a 3.50 gear in it forever, cant believe the difference that little bit of a lower gear makes. The WOT shifts land right in the powerband and the car just keeps on pulling hard. Still loving the Gleason as well.
Cool!

[SSLance]

I have 3.90s in the TA, Lance. I love them. I could have easily gone 4.10s as highway speeds in sixth still puts me right at 2000rpms. 26 inch rear tire I want to say.

Do you have a lightweight flywheel, too? I have a Fidanza aluminum unit. Rev match down shifting is so easy as it revs so freely.

Glad you're enjoying the new rear gear ratio.

I'm still running the OEM flywheel from the 1994 Camaro the transmission came from.

Ran a comparison of drive ratios between the 3.50 and 3.89 gear.

Speed At Engine RPM 6500
3.50 vs 3.89
1st Gear Speed 53 48
2nd Gear Speed 79 71
3rd Gear Speed 108 98
4th Gear Speed 141 127
5th Gear Speed 190 171
6th Gear Speed 282 254

I'll race the 3.89 at SCCA this weekend and I assume I'll love it. We'll see how the Gleason acts as well. Some say they unlock when the inside tire is lifted and while I've fought that int he past, I don't believe it'll be an issue now. We'll see. I can't wait to barrel off into the first sweeper and not have to cringe waiting for the BANG when the old locker would disengage. That alone should make this a MUCH nicer diff to race with.

[SSLance]

I spent the last week or so chasing and correcting some issues so I figured it was a good time for an update to the build thread.

When I originally swapped in the electric cooling fans about 10 years ago, I also upgraded to a CS-144 style 140 amp alternator which I hung off of March Underdrive pulleys and brackets. It took a bit of work to get the larger alternator case to work with the bracket and turnbuckle and several tries on belt length until I got it "right". It all worked pretty well until about 3 years ago when that alternator failed (right after moving to Phoenix and of course a couple of days before my first race event here). A friend loaned me a Alternator out of a 90 Caprice which is basically the same as what I had and I've been running it since.

When I swapped in the EFI last year, I discovered that the alternator didn't put out enough amps at idle to run a heavy load of accessories. By the time the AC blower was full blast and engine cooling fans were on high, the charging system was down around 12 volts. We remedied that by building a table into the EFI software that bumped the idle up as the volts dropped below where they needed to be...and that worked well as well.

For the last year I've been limping along a 9 year old Optima Red Top that would only charge to about 12.2-12.3 volts even with the big Optima charger. It was fine as well as long as I kept up on it. Well, until Tuesday that is. This is the day I finally took my wife for a second ride in the car since the EFI install. The first time was when it was 110 degrees out and the ECU freaked out when the volts dropped too low and we barely made it home. This time I dropper her off at Target for a bit then went for a cruise to see how Andrew's latest tune was...when I noticed the care was having trouble idling. When I looked...the volts were down in the 10s... Even a cruise up the highway wouldn't cure it so I called her, told her I'd come back in the truck to get her as I had to get the car home. I pulled into the driveway with it at 9.5 volts and yes, it was dead as soon as I turned it off.

My first thought was the battery finally died. It would hold 12.1v but as soon as I turned key on and fuel pump would prime it would drop into the 9s...so I put a new battery in it. During the next test drive, all was good, volts were fine, it idled great...all good... Until the engine warmed up enough to turn fans on when the volts dropped down to 12.0 once again. Even revving the engine to 3,000 RPMS wouldn't spin the Alternator fast enough to make enough amps to run the fans. So I started the chase for a new alternator knowing full well I had about 3 days before a race and then another 5 days or so before a 2 day race event at Good Guys.

Making wholesale changes to the charging system was a dream, but reality was I needed it to be fixed that day. I found a place that rebuilt alternators here in town, so I loaded both of mine up and headed there. They gave me several options but the most favorable wouldn't be ready for 8-10 days (270 amp alt that would bolt right on). So I bought a rebuilt CS-144 with a stock smaller pulley for about $100 and headed home. I knew I'd need a shorter belt but I forgot that I'd need to work around the turnbuckle that would only move the alternator so far before it would interfere one way or the other. A 42" belt was great with the larger March pulley. A 41" looked to be about right with the smaller stock sized pulley, but O'Reillys only had a 40" in stock. Of course it moved the alternator so close to the water pump the turnbuckle was too long. I thought about cutting it down or searching for a shorter one...then decided to try AutoZone to see if they had a 41" belt, which they did. I had to fiddle with the turnbuckle just a bit to get it so it would tighten the belt up but in the end everything ended up in just about the right spot. Next time I have it off I'll space the turnbuckle out from the Alt just a bit for a bit more room to turn the lock nut but for now, it's ready to race.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-gv76grR/0/e1bd3cf8/X2/20201112_141334-X2.jpg

What is really sweet is it now holds 14.3v at idle with the cooling fans on. And with every accessory and light on full blast it holds about 12.8v at idle...so the smaller pulley and the fresh alternator cured the charging issue I've had for a LONG time. I've got the car all cleaned up, all autocross gear loaded up and it's ready to head out at the butt crack of dawn tomorrow for Arizona Region Fall 2020 Event 3.

[SSLance]

This is the best picture I have with the old Alternator and March underdrive pulley.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Z295XZs/0/700f8a3a/X2/20190626_143213-X2.jpg

[WSSix]

Glad you got it fixed, Lance. Good luck at the event!

[SSLance]

Guess I forgot to update here...

Picked these up on a Black Friday deal.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-q6ZgZZT/0/6fea4f21/X2/20201206_113544-X2.jpg

275/35/18 Falken RT660s

Once mounted they are about 1/4" wider than the RE71s.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-22n4qgQ/0/dfcf9c71/X2/20201210_152805-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-wknSv67/0/ea4ec732/X2/20201210_152821-X2.jpg

I've scrubbed them in and man, I hadn't realized just how bad my old tires were. Just on the street these ride so much better. They also make pretty good clouds of smoke when spinning... I get to try them on the track for the first time this coming Saturday.

And just because, here are a few pics my friend took of me at GGs couple weeks ago.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-xsNXpff/0/cb6c791a/X3/130541147_10214069872739597_1833278157331184599_o-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-CgX3qmD/0/494d6fff/X3/130243859_10214069881899826_6524097392390055413_o-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-zjcrLgX/0/2d70f801/X3/130850792_10214069875099656_1283730205657899664_o-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-7fnWj3g/0/21655be2/X3/130771446_10214069872979603_5133388504633467040_o-X3.jpg

[WSSix]

Great action shots, Lance. Glad the new tires are working well for you.

[SuperB70]

Your pic about old alternator with pulley.

When I zoom it, ��it doesnt make any sence. Pulley not in alternator axle. One of the belts coming and another belt cuts off before water pump..

To me looks alot like photoshop'ed..

[badbu68]

Your pic about old alternator with pulley.

When I zoom it, ��it doesnt make any sence. Pulley not in alternator axle. One of the belts coming and another belt cuts off before water pump..

To me looks alot like photoshop'ed..

You are seeing the reflection from the alternator pulley/cooling fan.

[SuperB70]

You are seeing the reflection from the alternator pulley/cooling fan.


Yes I was... and why didnt I think of that....

My bad..

[SSLance]

Been a bit since my last actual car update. I've raced the car a few times with the new tires installed and frankly...I'm just not happy with it's performance. At our last event I had to make a hero run on my last run to get back past Mat for the CAM T win by 2 tenths, but still placed like 37th in raw time out of 120 which is not up to par. I got to thinking about things, analyzing videos and data from the event, and decided it was time to get back to basics. It had been 3 full years since the car was on an alignment rack and tire temps taken after my runs at January event showed the inside edge of the front tires was 10 degrees hotter than the outside edge...a sign of too much camber (for this tire apparently). I am also having trouble putting power down without the rear stepping out if I have any steering angle in the car at all, probably related to the torque sensing rear diff. When I get back into the gas while still turned the inside wheel slips just a bit, the diff senses this and directs 2.5 times the torque to the outside wheel which then spins more and throws the car sideways. While I love the diff for corner entry and roll through portions of a turn, I hate it's corner exit traits and this is where this car makes it's bones...on corner exit. Something has to change.

First up, full physical evaluation to see where things are. I started by weighing the car.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-wRTztjT/0/ae026ff4/X2/20210202_141012-X2.jpg

This is the naked car, no driver weight.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-pJM2nKp/0/6da1edd2/X2/20210131_150441-X2.jpg

Some how over the past 3 years the car has gained 80 pounds. The good thing is, it is almost all on the rear tires.

This is with simulated driver weight in the driver seat.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-WRB6rXj/0/d19f0b31/X2/20210202_140812-X2.jpg

I'm actually pretty happy with this. Cross weight % and weight equals right side % and weight to the pound.

I also measured ride heights with the driver's weight in car and I'm happy with that as well, right where I like things.

I then rolled the car back, replaced the front scales with turn plates, rolled the car back forward and checked the alignment. This is where things went haywire.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-nHDq3Pz/0/4d5ea354/X2/20210131_155334-X2.jpg

This is the sheet from the last time I had the car aligned...on a computerized rack, with a trained tech, that I paid good money for.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-RD2cwk3/0/ac938ef0/X2/20210201_082757-X2.jpg

Shame on me for not keeping a better eye on things. Now that I see where it was set with my own eyes, and realize there has been way too much camber in the RF for the past 3 years, a few things are starting to add up. One for instance is the RF has a tendency to lock up under hard braking when entering a right hand turn, the LF doesn't have this issue.

My goal was to take some static camber out to try to get the tire temps more evenly spread across the tire and I also wanted to see how taking a bit of caster out affected the rear tire weight...to see if "caster jacking" is somehow playing havoc with my diff causing my rear stepping out issue. I quickly realized that I had some work to do to get things back in shape. After a bunch of pulling shims, measuring, rolling the car back and forth, measuring again, etc etc...I came up with this.

LF Camber -1.25* RF Camber -1.00*
LF Caster +9.00* RF Caster -9.25*
Toe in 1/8"

That is close enough for now to see how the tires and the car react. We race again Feb 13 which will be next test.

Before I made any alignment changes, I measured the weight on the rear tires with the front tires on turn plates. Actually I took 3 measurements, 15* left turn, wheels straight, and 15* right turn. I'm not sure if this test was scientific or not as I'm certain there are other variables at play. The results were interesting though.

With the extra 1.50* camber in the RF and 10.00* LF and 10.75* caster RF, a 15* left turn lifted 66#s from the LR and put 20#s onto the right rear also resulting in 47#s moving to the LF I suppose while a 15* right turn lifted 41#s from the RR and put 41#s on the LR.

After I made all of the alignment changes, I did the same test again. This time a 15* left turn lifted 32#s from the LR and put 27#s onto the right rear resulting in 5#s moving to the LF I suppose while a 15* right turn lifted 44#s from the RR and put 44#s on the LR.

Basically basically the changes netted almost zero change in caster jacking on a right hand turn but really cleaned up and evened out the caster jacking on a left hand turn, the differences between the two probably have something to do with the car being so left side heavy. I can't wait to see if the changes help the rear end stick better at all, I kind of have my doubts. I am encouraged that I'll be able to dive into a corner harder and possibly carry more mid turn speed now with the front geometry evened out and better. Tire temps after a few runs will tell the real story though.

Moral of the whole story though...stop paying other people to do things you can do yourself... Every freaking time it seems like I pay someone else to do something, they screw it up. You'd think I'd know better by now.

[Panteracer]

Hate to say it Lance but going away
from the Re71rs may be an issue
Killer tire as far as I am concerned

Several years back I could not get my Hoosier size
for a track event so went to a hankook dot road race tire
Best thing I ever did. Changed the car dramatically

MY 2cents

Bob

[SSLance]

Well, the RE71 is going away so not really my choice. I'm not convinced the tire is my issue yet, hopefully I can dial the car into these still.

They have good grip for sure.

[SSLance]

Pretty fun day at the track even though I didn't get the W. Mike brought his A game for sure.

https://solo-timing-api.herokuapp.com/results/live

Still beat quite a few good Vettes and P-cars though which makes me smile.

LncBC1IHKQw

Data showed I struggled turning right, several times in earlier runs the car would push hard late in the two right hand sweepers. Not sure what I could have done differently except add a passenger which would be breaking covid protocols. **rolls eyes**

New parts get here today!!

[ScotI]

"New" parts??

[SSLance]

"New" parts??

Yessssss.... :D

[Tinker]

Yessssss.... :D

So you're saying you are going to leave us hanging?

[SSLance]

Big brown truck was out in front of my house for a couple minutes today, then it started back up and drove off...

Package due last Friday is now rescheduled for Tuesday...

[garage_engineer]

It must be something big then if they couldn't get it off the truck! Looking forward to the surprise...

[SSLance]

LONG time coming for this...hoping it's the last one I'll ever put in this car...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-m5W2cd3/0/ff0b180a/X2/20210316_143504-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-bThVWqZ/1/c23f4d4a/X2/20210316_144002-X2.jpg

I'll try to get it in the car in the next day or so...

[Tinker]

Lance, refresh my memory.
Is this a gear change or are you finally getting rid of the locker?

[SSLance]

Yes... :D

3.50 gear and locker to a 3.70 REM polished gear and a TruTrac in an all new case.

[SSLance]

So I have about 250 miles on the new diff and I still love it. Smooth as butter and whisper quiet. The 3.70s seem just about perfect, 80 mph in 6th is 2,000 RPM and 15% throttle...just right.

I've been street driving it a bunch and still need to do some more, so I decided it was time to tune the AC up a bit. It's been leaking AC oil out of a connection near the Accumulator for over 5 years, but was still blowing pretty cold. Thought we could just change out the O-ring, recharge it and send it...but that was not the case. Turns out the leak was at the hose connection, where the hose meets the fitting...so a decision to redo the hoses was made and in a case of whileImatititis...morphed into this...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-mv2KprL/1/05b22304/X2/20210329_143703-X2.jpg

That's a new style condenser that should fit right into the factory mounts with maybe a bit of shimming of some sorts. The in and out ports will go on the pass side, the 180 degree fitting will head back across the front of the condenser to the compressor on the driver side and the bottom fitting will head up to the evaporator.

There is also new fittings for the Accumulator to compressor line which will go from accumulator, down to in front of the condenser across and back to the compressor. I finally get to get rid of that OEM line that has been stretched across my engine for over 10 years!!!

Lastly I picked up a threaded port style manifold that will attach the hoses to the back of the sanden compressor with 90 degree fittings which should let me point them toward the fender then run up to alongside the driver side of condenser.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-LPC4TG9/1/1273120f/X2/20210329_143357-X2.jpg

Thankful for a good friend with an AC service machine in his home shop along with crimping tools and the knowledge to make this all happen. Wish us luck...this upgrade has been a LONG time coming...

[ScotI]

Nice. Where was the condenser sourced from?

[SSLance]

A place called AAPAK here in Phoenix. Stood at the counter and piece by piece picked all the parts you see out.

[garage_engineer]

Looks like that is going to be a very clean setup!

My car originally came with the compressor on the driver's side with similar hoses going all the way across the engine bay. I went through the painful process of piecing together a later 89-92 serpentine setup that moves the compressor to the passenger side, all in the name of engine bay cleanliness.

I can see why so many people delete their AC systems... lots of parts under the hood you can eliminate! I kept mine though because no matter how many track days I think I'm going to do, this is a street car at the end of the day and I will put way more miles on it in the summer if I have working AC. And isn't that the end goal? (And I'm also not a good enough driver to tell the difference of removing 20 or so pounds of the front end and the extra 2-3 hp!)

Can't wait to see the final product!

[SSLance]

New AC setup is installed and functional... Install was pretty painless, I had to notch out a hole in the lower passenger side of the core support to give room for the 90* fitting coming out of the bottom of the new condenser and we had to reconfigure the upper condenser mounts a bit, but other than that...it all went in as planned.

Love the new look, no more 36 year old hoses stretched across the engine.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9LCHFmS/0/X2/i-9LCHFmS-X2.jpg

Took 2# 11oz of freon to get it evened out and cooling down to about 45 degrees.

Bring on that Phoenix summer heat baby, we are ready for it now!!

[ScotI]

New hose routing is much better. I dislike that on my g-body as well.

[ScotI]

Any updates on the EFI set-up? How much more tuning has been required?

[SSLance]

Any updates on the EFI set-up? How much more tuning has been required?

We haven't touched it or messed with it in a while, it's pretty much spot on.

The learn table shows a few areas with a little more than 5% correction on it after an autocross race or two and then a few different areas of more than 5% correction after a bunch of easy street driving, but overall, there are zero issues anywhere and I think it's pretty darn good now.

Here was my best run of last weekend at Good Guys, I made about 15 passes and the engine responded just like it did in this pass every single time. Love the new 3.70 gear and TruTrac diff as well. Car was as planted and jumped as hard forward as it ever has and turn in is more precise as well. Finished 5th in class and 16th overall out of almost 60 cars and even made round one of the shootout.

BlIscNYJQ-8

[Panteracer]

Lance,
Good to hear the engine, gearing and Efi are working well and together
Also sounds like the Driver is doing great... not sure how
you drive that big car on the tight Good Guys tracks
I can really tell the difference from my firebird to the Pantera

Well done... keep having fun

Bob

[SSLance]

Thanks Bob... The event was a great cap off for my racing season. Seems like all of my friends around the country are just now getting back into the swing of racing again and we are done for the summer unless I travel.

A friend was taking pictures of us on track and i put this gif together from some of his pics. It shows just how hard I could be on the skinny pedal yet the car stayed under me without getting all out of shape. It was a blast...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-TcNT4rT/0/6e2b2f94/O/output_7c13Uo.gif

[SSLance]

A good friend of mine just sent me this video of one of my early runs taken from the sidelines at GoodGuys Spring Nats in Scottsdale.

Thought I'd share a bit different perspective of the car on track with the class...

J0sD7JOzmAE

[SSLance]

A good friend of mine is very curious...and has a podcast relating to her curiosities... She followed me around during the Good Guys show a couple of weeks ago filming her adventure.

Here is the link to the video she made about her day.

6W_wyyx0NWk

[87SS]

Thanks for posting....I enjoyed watching it! Barney is amazing!:star:

[SSLance]

So, yesterday started out awesome. Didn't hit one red light on the way to the track then I got this nifty umbrella as an award for winning CAM T last Spring.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-QfzmJHb/0/d234c121/X2/20210919_085904-X2.jpg

First run was a hot mess, knocked 5 months of rust off though and was ready to show them how it was done on 2nd run.

Then this happened...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-rSTB8jw/0/2a5124be/X2/20210919_144331-X2.jpg

Pretty non-eventful on course but it did complicate the rest of my day...

F_6FLYgefrE

All is good now though, car is on the lift and a plan is being assembled for an upgrade\repair.

[shelteredV]

Glad to see it was mostly non eventful, coulda been ugly.

[WSSix]

Ouch! Yeah, glad it wasn't worse.

[jarhead]

amazing the amount of force put on individual components.

[SSLance]

So I think I know why I had the part failure Sunday.

This is the good one from the passenger side...that hadn't broken...yet...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-tHg9txf/0/dbddfff4/X2/20210921_100012-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-2WTGDkj/0/45e91bf9/X2/20210921_095945-X2.jpg

And this is the one that broke...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-68Gx7ZP/0/09b67ea1/X2/20210921_093925-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-hChz253/0/a5d956b4/X2/20210921_094016-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-PCfxcD3/0/d0131cdb/X2/20210921_092756-X2.jpg

Frankly, I'm surprised they lasted as long as they did all things considered. These Baer Bump Stop posts have been in these Speedtech Steering arms for 4 years...with just the top half of the taper making contact letting the bottom half move back and forth just slightly.

There are a TON of people that have broken these tapered studs apparently but I'm curious if they know exactly WHY they are breaking??? I do now...

[SSLance]

So an update with a correction here... It seems that I had forgotten that I removed my Baer Bumpsteer pins when I installed the ATS spindles and steering arms and put in their place a Secret Sauce Allstar ALL56280 bump steer kit.

The details of the Allstar part are in the pic below, it clearly shows it has a Ford taper, not a GM taper. I guess we can just add this to an increasingly growing longer list of RSRT supplied part failures...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-m9ZfLmk/0/50bb6f92/X2/ALL56280-X2.jpg

[camcojb]

Thanks for the correction Lance. :thumbsup:

[ScotI]

I've wondered if that RSRT working relationship weathered the times.

[SSLance]

Getting tired of getting my tail kicked by cars that corner exit better than mine, plans are in motion...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-FmPNDvR/0/c56bec37/X2/20211218_172824-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-BL2xL3r/0/543af0cb/X2/20211218_172817-X2.jpg

More updates to come soon...

[Vegas69]

I never took you for a Miata guy, but hey. :lol:

[ScotI]

3-link?

[SSLance]

I never took you for a Miata guy, but hey. :lol:

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, right? :D


3-link?

Yup... With Panhard Bar setup.

[garage_engineer]

Nice upgrade! I'll be keeping track...

[ScotI]

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, right? :D




Yup... With Panhard Bar setup.

UMI supposedly has an A/G-body 3-link in the 'skunk-works' but not much info released yet.

I've been hoping someone like Speedtech would do a Torque Arm set-up for the A/G body cars. Seems their set-up w/the right front mount could be made to work & have minimal impact on the floor-pans & clearances.

Looking forward to what you come-up with.

[SSLance]

One of the issues the aftermarket companies are up against in creating 3 link kits for these cars is in most cases the weak OEM 10 bolt has been replaced with something stronger, and most all of those stronger options are different from each other. The kit I'm using is designed as a bolt in for the 10 bolt, hence the custom bracket we are designing for the axle side of the upper link for my QP 9".

[ScotI]

One of the issues the aftermarket companies are up against in creating 3 link kits for these cars is in most cases the weak OEM 10 bolt has been replaced with something stronger, and most all of those stronger options are different from each other. The kit I'm using is designed as a bolt in for the 10 bolt, hence the custom bracket we are designing for the axle side of the upper link for my QP 9".

Care to share what 'kit' you're starting with? I have the 10bolt GN 8.5 so that's somewhat appealing.

Also.... I reached out to UMI last week to see if they had any updates & apparently they're just bench-racing @ this point. They indicated no design work has even begun.

[SSLance]

Care to share what 'kit' you're starting with? I have the 10bolt GN 8.5 so that's somewhat appealing.




Right now it is still in the testing phase, I'll share more as it develops and becomes available. I think you'll like it though. ;)

[ScotI]

Right now it is still in the testing phase, I'll share more as it develops and becomes available. I think you'll like it though. ;)

Fair enough.

Once upon a time on another site we had a discussion going on about different rear set-ups vs. the GM C4L that's under g-bodys from the factory. It also included aftermarket frame suspension options using similar 'Triangulated' 4-bar set-ups & what would possibly work better. Lots of guys felt the GNX style 3-link idea would be great but the limited length & how it anchors seemed great for a drag race set-up but not so much an 'all-around' set-up.

Thanks for continuing to share your journey w/Barney.

[rixtrix1]

Interesting, Lance. Will you now have to box your frame and add more support for the third link or will this bolt in under the floor? The upper bracket template looks a lot shorter than most "racecar" 3-links.

[SSLance]

3 link parts are in, install has begun. I'm so stoked about this, for sure the biggest upgrade I've made to the car since probably the Big Brake kit 4.5 years ago. I guess the big front sway bar was a big upgrade also, but this install will take care of a need this car has wanted for over 10 years. So happy to finally be making it happen.

First pics of the parts...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-t4cgh7h/0/5f6fa3b3/X2/20220106_081528-X2.jpg

Upper link frame and axle mounts

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-S72gM33/0/5137b604/X2/20220106_081536-X2.jpg

Where the upper link bolts to the frame crossmember.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-NbMQF76/0/0f282a96/X2/20220106_074812-X2.jpg

There is an included backing plate with locknuts welded to it that slides up between frame and body that the link bracket through bolts too.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-hq5fHg9/0/906c302a/X2/20220105_120217-X2.jpg

Axle side gets welded to the housing.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-NzG64Gq/0/81cf9ca6/X2/20220105_115635-X2.jpg

Frame side Pan Hard Bar mount bolts to frame in several locations with load spread all over the frame on both sides. Uses some existing holes to line up and some new holes had to be drilled. Here it is almost in it's spot during mock up.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Kk6CSHx/0/c6dbdc28/X2/20220105_124650-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-sj88Pj9/0/8cad2c07/X2/20220105_124723-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-qdj8tV6/0/0e281b53/X2/20220105_124742-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-BKHQ4bN/0/05de5040/X2/20220105_125117-X2.jpg

Today's tasks involve drilling the holes and getting the frame side upper link bracket installed, then cleaning up and painting all the frame areas before attaching the PHB bracket for the last time. Then the plan is to take it to a friends place to weld the bracket to the housing and fab up some extra support for the axle side PHB mount then install it. I've got a local race on January 16th and really want to finish this up and get some street time on it tuning before then. It'll be tight, wish me luck.

[SSLance]

Interesting, Lance. Will you now have to box your frame and add more support for the third link or will this bolt in under the floor? The upper bracket template looks a lot shorter than most "racecar" 3-links.

See above ^

Bernie Duplan that designed this setup has been running it on his MCSS for a year, including several autocross events and has had no issues. The short answer is "we'll see" but I do not anticipate the need for any further reinforcement.

The car needed to get the axle side upper link mount lower to correct the horrible Instant Center and Rear Roll Center height. IC was 35" in front of axle centerline with 100% Anti Squat as it was, looking to get AS in the 70-75% range and RCH somewhere below axle centerline to start out.

[ScotI]

That link looks to be about a similar length vs. the GNX piece.

I'm liking the way everything looks! Let Bernie know there's interest.

[Tinker]

Looks good Lance.
I really like the fine adjustment on the panhard bar instead of just several holes. We ran a similar adjustment setup on our stock car some years ago. It sure makes it easier to creep up on your adjustments.

[mfain]

Looks great Lance! Have you measured the pinion angle change with travel with the short third link? Where are you racing in January?

Pappy

[SSLance]

Looks great Lance! Have you measured the pinion angle change with travel with the short third link? Where are you racing in January?

Pappy

No, not yet as the axle side isn't welded on yet. I don't expect t it to be much different then it easier though as the OEM uppers were at such an angle and pretty short themselves effectively.

We are at AMP on the skid pad January 16 with SCCA.

[SSLance]

More progress made today. All fab work finished up, all parts freshly painted and shop cleaned up. Tomorrow final install, then road test!!! The turn downs on the mufflers really quieted it down a lot, I think it'll pass sound like this.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Ww6J73Z/0/9b89d829/X2/20220107_162412-X2.jpg


https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-44Jpp76/0/7f11b029/X4/20220107_103047-X4.jpg

[rixtrix1]

That link looks to be about a similar length vs. the GNX piece.

I'm liking the way everything looks! Let Bernie know there's interest.

Also looks a lot like the S197 Mustang upper link. 8.5"RCH worked out fine roadracing our 94 Mustang GT with a MM TA rear suspension. It looks like you will have plenty of adjustment to get into the sweet spot. I doubt if you will have enough axle movement with your setup on an autoX course to worry too much about pinion angle change, as long as it's set right static.

[SSLance]

Looking at it today after getting the axle mount in place, the new link will actually be longer than the OEM links are now, front to back wise, by a couple inches at least. Axle upper link mount is about 2" behind and 2" lower than old axle side link mounts.

I'll get exact measurements tomorrow as I'll need to plot pivot points for initial setup.

[SSLance]

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-GbxPf2s/0/a46e0e8a/X2/20220108_141846-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-QmpgGqd/0/e11d972f/X4/20220108_141905-X4.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-sBcJqrV/0/b5f89e80/X2/20220108_141911-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-tPm6QHW/0/7b37361b/X2/20220108_141936-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-D4nJJvm/0/adf49046/X4/20220108_142008-X4.jpg

[SSLance]

As always with this car, packaging is TIGHT. It's all in there though, and it all fits. Bernie did an EXCELLENT job designing this setup. I'm impressed.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-FFnt3kX/0/469bcffd/X2/20220108_195205-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Q8G9SJG/0/4fc83d03/X2/20220108_195233-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-NVTFPHb/0/9bf8e03c/X2/20220108_195129-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-chvSCGs/0/b4f156e5/X2/20220108_195057-X2.jpg

I hope I don't have to do much work on upper link at track as it's a bit hard to get too, but I shouldn't have too once I find it's happy spot.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-HWgHcRh/0/63602952/X2/20220108_192558-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-4Xbz726/0/474ef595/X2/20220108_192510-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-wv2hsRM/0/b5653418/X2/20220108_192401-X2.jpg

Tomorrow morning I need to swap out the rear springs, then it's off for it's first test drive. Wish me luck...

[SSLance]

Looks great Lance! Have you measured the pinion angle change with travel with the short third link? Where are you racing in January?

Pappy

So the effective length of the stock style uppers was 8", the new upper link ended up 11.25"...so the pinion angle change should be less than it was before.

[Scott3106]

Looks awesome. Can’t wait for the review. I thought about this while mine was torn apart but I have to stop the steady outflow of cash. Starting to not be fun anymore.

[SSLance]

So I did a bunch of flexing while the springs were out this morning. First I have to say, a 4 post drive on lift makes stuff like this SO much easier than a 2 post.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-sknJnFB/0/a76f03ef/X2/20220109_091820-X2.jpg

So, springs out, driver side full stuff to bumpstop, pass side full droop.

Here is tire with roll center at lowest point, 6.75"

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Qv8qPx7/0/30bc69a4/X2/20220109_091837-X2.jpg

And here is that same except roll center is at the highest point 11.25"

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-zPdCvS9/0/09f042c4/X2/20220109_093612-X2.jpg

You can clearly see the difference in how the axle\tire rotate in roll by how the tire ends up in the fender. Pretty cool...

In static form, neither tire ever touches the frame or inner fender. They both come pretty close to the outer fender lip at full stuff though.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-NPHvG2L/0/2836681f/X2/20220109_093625-X2.jpg

In dynamic form, I was able to get the passenger side to rub just a bit, on the outer fender lip I believe. I set the RCH at 9" for my initial test drive, right in the middle of adjustment range.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-BfNwZgj/0/fae33841/X2/20220109_101055-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-GWrs8qz/0/0859925b/X2/20220109_101108-X2.jpg

Upper link frame mount in middle hole, sway bar in middle holes, rebound in shocks in middle of adjustment range, RCH in middle of adjustment range...time for a test drive.

Right away I could feel a huge difference in how the rear end reacted. In hard transitions back and forth at 45 mph the back felt stuck like I've NEVER felt it before. I had a HUGE grin on my face right away. When being a bit more aggressive swerving back and forth I was able to get it to slide the inside front tire just a bit when on the gas...hinting that it's a touch on the tight side like this. Certainly drivable though. I'd race it like this...if I had too.

I did have a wheel hop problem though. It hops hard, from a dead stop, from a roll, even during a hard 1-2 shift. This is discerning and I need to adjust to correct this. First thing will be raising the front upper link up to the top hole. I also want the rear to roll just a bit less so I think I'll put the rear sway bar on stiffest hole and might put 185# springs in place of the 162# springs in it now. The stiffer springs and more rebound in the shocks may help tame the rear axle down as well.

Hopefully not too many changes at once and it'll be enough to let me feel like I can beat on it a bit harder next time out.

I'm also not sure if it's just the extra noise, or if the tailpipe delete option really opened up the exhaust, but it sure feels peppier when on the loud pedal!! Could just be the car forcing itself forward faster instead of just spinning the tires too.

[garage_engineer]

Nice upgrade! Interested to hear how it goes once you get to race it for the first time.

[SSLance]

So, I've driven the car around the streets a few times and have made some adjustments from my initial settings.

First off, the way the rear suspension reacts to inputs now is COMPLETELY different than before and in a great way. I'm so excited about it's possibilities now. I have not been able to get the rear to step out in the somewhat aggressive street driving I have attempted so far, not once. Nor have I been able to get the rear to get the front tires to push...so far, it's pretty dang neutral.

I have had some interference issues I'm working through and a wheel hop issue.

I had the inner fender sheet metal on the passenger side rubbing the inside of the RR tire under hard left turns...the sheet metal was sticking out past the frame rail and a few selectively placed blows with a 5# sledge and some fresh black paint seem to have cured that.

First time out, it would wheel hop just about any time I got on the gas hard. I raised the upper link frame side mount to the top hole, went from 162# to 185# rear springs, put rear sway bar on full stiff (was in middle), added 7 clicks of rear rebound to shocks and raised PHB from 9" to 10" and drove again. Wheel hop is MUCH better, now it'll only hop if I try to make it hop...by being real aggressive on the throttle.

My other interference issue is the Pinion\U-joint contacting the body under full compression. Some of this happened during the wheel hop issues, but it'll also bottom out by just hitting a hard bump at cruising speed. I'm running a 3.5" diameter driveshaft (full inch larger than stock) and a 9" which is much larger than the OEM 10 bolt. It was better after putting the bit stiffer springs in, so I think I'll bump up to the 200# springs I have sitting here and maybe I'll shorten the upper link just a bit as well to try to gain a bit more room. Technically I haven't even measured the pinion angle yet, I initially set the upper link length by putting it exactly where the housing sat with the old links still in place. Moving the frame side upper link to top hole probably added a bit of static pinion rise, so this needs to be addressed. I think I'll leave the spring adjusters where they are when I put the 200# springs in as well which will raise the rear ride height another 1/4" or so I believe.

I think the wheel rate is pretty close to what I'll need, I LOVE the way the rear squats under hard acceleration and you can tell it throws the car forward vs blowing the tires off like it used to do. Lateral load feels decent as well...I haven't tried a hard braking turn yet to see what turn in is like. but from what I can tell corner exit is going to be MILES better than it has ever been before. I need to get the interference issues worked out regardless though before I can really start to throw it around. I'm pretty stoked about how it is going so far though...can't wait to race it this Sunday.

Also, I'm pretty sure the engine woke up a bit when I cut the tailpipes off. I'm getting pretty used to the tone and I'm pretty sure it will pass sound at the track...but I'll still try to rework the whole exhaust at some point to get it out from under the back seat. Latest thoughts are a Y pipe into a single 4" muffler\tailpipe on passenger side up and over the axle dumping behind the RR tire.

[SSLance]

So, apparently I'm an idiot... I set my upper link length by the position the axle was in with the old 2 upper links still attached in what I thought was the preferred pinion angle, and then I never measured it to verify it was correct until today.

I had the pinion angle about 3 degrees higher than it should have been. Taking a 1/4" out of the upper link put the pinion angle just under parallel with the trans output and BOOM, just like that my wheel hop and U-Joint interference problems went away. Car is butter smooth at 80-100 MPH and can be driven in full anger with no strange and scary noises. Let's go racing boys!!!

[ScotI]

So, apparently I'm an idiot... I set my upper link length by the position the axle was in with the old 2 upper links still attached in what I thought was the preferred pinion angle, and then I never measured it to verify it was correct until today.

I had the pinion angle about 3 degrees higher than it should have been. Taking a 1/4" out of the upper link put the pinion angle just under parallel with the trans output and BOOM, just like that my wheel hop and U-Joint interference problems went away. Car is butter smooth at 80-100 MPH and can be driven in full anger with no strange and scary noises. Let's go racing boys!!!

Is that w/the link in the middle or upper hole? I know you mentioned making changes:
I raised the upper link frame side mount to the top hole, went from 162# to 185# rear springs, put rear sway bar on full stiff (was in middle), added 7 clicks of rear rebound to shocks and raised PHB from 9" to 10" and drove again. Wheel hop is MUCH better, now it'll only hop if I try to make it hop...by being real aggressive on the throttle.

Just curious if you switched everything back to the initial points & then all that was required was the slight adjustment on the upper link?

[WSSix]

Really glad to hear it's performing well for you, Lance! Good luck at the next race.

[SSLance]

Is that w/the link in the middle or upper hole? I know you mentioned making changes:


Just curious if you switched everything back to the initial points & then all that was required was the slight adjustment on the upper link?

I had to push the housing forward to get bolt in upper hole so that change probably helped a little, then shortening the link finished it off.

Eventually I'll remeasure it all to see where IC and AS ended up to see of it needs further fine tuning.

[SSLance]

Who else is as excited as I am to see what this thing can do tomorrow? :D

Course has a ton of transitions in it along with a couple sweepers, exactly the test bed to see how much the 3 link improved the car's rear grip.

https://forum.azsolo.com/index.php?/topic/3283-course-map-amp-spring-2021-event-1-jan-16th/

Car is washed, full of fuel, have a new case for the GoPro and the weather forecast shows high 60s-low 70s and partly clouds tomorrow.

Let's do this!!

[Tinker]

Who else is as excited as I am to see what this thing can do tomorrow? :D


Probably nobody....:lmao:...not saying we're not excited, but you are like a kid on Christmas eve!

Good luck Lance.

[rixtrix1]

Probably nobody....:lmao:...not saying we're not excited, but you are like a kid on Christmas eve!

Good luck Lance.

Haha, maybe a few "Oh,sh*t, how fast will he be now?!" Good luck!

[Vegas69]

I'd be more excited if you invested the money in a mullet vs. a 3 link, but hey, good luck out there tomorrow. :D

[SSLance]

Lol at you all. :D

Yes, I'm pretty stoked. This was a LONG time coming and the initial reactions show a LOT of promise...

[ScotI]

Looking forward to the update. I'm hoping it's a positive day for you!

[SSLance]

So the day didn't go exactly as planned... :D

First two runs were great, completely different car yet still very responsive and easy to drive. I was about a second or so ahead of Mike in his Chevelle on both runs, then sitting in line to start 3rd run in neutral I pushed the clutch in to shift to 1st and the pedal went to the floor. Pretty sure I have a clutch fork issue but Barney was out.

Mike graciously let me slip into his seat for my last 3 runs. It was awesome for him to do that and to feel my setup on course then to go directly to his setup (which is very similar to mine) and feel the difference. Final verdict from today, 3 link is the answer! :D

This video is my second run, only adjustment from first run was 3 clicks softer on rear rebound.

E5EX3nboybs

I took a passenger and felt a slight RR tire rub on one long sweeper so I added some tape to verify where, added some compression to rear shocks and had tools out to raise PHB after 3rd run...but it wasn't to be.

Here are the final results for the day.

http://solo-timing-api.herokuapp.com/results/live?embed=&id=ee25e340-827d-4787-a5e8-209c12147797&filter=comp-class-Open_CAM-T

It'll be a day or two before I can diagnose the clutch, but pretty sure the trans has to come out first too see what's up...so yeah...

[ScotI]

Well.... I guess that's a 'good news/bad news' thing.

Glad it initially went well but sux to hear about a clutch issue ending further evaluation.

[WSSix]

Bummer about the clutch. That's great that it's performing better with the rear changes though. Good luck, Lance.

[SSLance]

Suspicion confirmed...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-K9rd928/0/ad477b01/X2/20220119_133904-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-p74cVK3/0/74335b35/X2/20220119_133712-X2.jpg

Now just have to find time to schedule the uninstall\correct\reinstall procedure...

[syborg tt]

Good news is you now know what it is. The Bad news is now you have to find the time to actually fix it.

[ScotI]

Pardon my ignorance w/the t56's & the TO bearing pieces..... What is the red shrapnel I'm seeing?

[SSLance]

Pardon my ignorance w/the t56's & the TO bearing pieces..... What is the red shrapnel I'm seeing?

It's powder coat from the back side of the pressure plate. When the bolt broke, the fork pressed up against the spinning pressure plate, peeling off the powdercoat and a few aluminum shavings.

[SSLance]

Good news is you now know what it is. The Bad news is now you have to find the time to actually fix it.

That might just happen tomorrow, I've cleared my docket!! :D

I think the hardest part might end up being the retrieval of the two broken bolt pieces.

Might try to re-engineer the setup a bit while it's out also.

[syborg tt]

Might try to re-engineer the setup a bit while it's out also.

Might...Come on we have seen this build of course you are going to re-engineer it.

[SSLance]

Well, this should be fun to get out...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-x3TVG5r/0/3aefc0ab/X2/20220120_134903-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-LwBT57v/0/2941ffce/X2/20220120_134831-X2.jpg

Had a very liberal coat of loc-tite on it when it went in the last time about 7 years ago...

[syborg tt]

Eak - that does not look like fun

Well, this should be fun to get out...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-x3TVG5r/0/3aefc0ab/X2/20220120_134903-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-LwBT57v/0/2941ffce/X2/20220120_134831-X2.jpg

Had a very liberal coat of loc-tite on it when it went in the last time about 7 years ago...

[Jimmy Sean]

Had a very liberal coat of loc-tite on it when it went in the last time about 7 years ago...

Assuming you know this but sharing for all, a little heat helps with removal of items that have loc-tite on them.

[SSLance]

The nuts we tried to weld to the stud were so small they melted down before the weld would burn into the stud

Turns out, several drill bits and an easy out with assist from blue wrench was the answer.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-qzfbhRL/0/9875d23d/X2/20220121_122404-X2.jpg

New bolt procured and ready to put all back together now.

[SuperB70]

I've noticed that those easy out taps are bad in same cases. They split and widen the bolt so its even more thighten.

Every place I can, now days I use tig to get those out. Little by little grow new crown to it, when its high enough weld a nut on and then comes the most important: then let it cool all the way. Dont try to turn even a little bit before. Will just broke the nut off.
Not so long ago, got a broken stud out off 6.0PSD head. Friend snapped one off when changing injector. You cant drill, you would have to remove the head. This way it was easy..

[ScotI]

The nuts we tried to weld to the stud were so small they melted down before the weld would burn into the stud

Turns out, several drill bits and an easy out with assist from blue wrench was the answer.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-qzfbhRL/0/9875d23d/X2/20220121_122404-X2.jpg

New bolt procured and ready to put all back together now.

Was that a GRADE-8 bolt that broke?

[SSLance]

No, 8.8 grade 8mm OEM bolt.

[syborg tt]

Have you ever tried the left hand drill bits as I have had great luck with them.

[WSSix]

Hawks third gen or Hawks performance, whatever he goes by now, has both the t bolt and fork now. I put new ones on my TA. Parts looked good when they arrived.

[SSLance]

Got some work done on the car this week with positive results all around. The LCA axle mounts have been lowered 1.5" and a brace was added between the UCA frame mount and the pass side spring tower. Here is how the geometry ended up.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-gVCkCvP/0/3941e9c5/O/Screenshot%202022-02-24%20093231.png

I can now dump the clutch and send the car into a drift with virtually zero wheelhop, huge difference than before. The forward bite\grip seems to be much improved as well, but won't really be able to test that until I launch it at the start on hot tires at next event.

I also had Dr EFI go back through my Holley tune and clean up a couple of things and OMG is it better now!! Andrew is getting really good at this and with his touches in a few places and the restrictive tailpipe delete, this thing really came to life. Can't wait to show the LS powered, big tire guys how well it works March 13!!

[ScotI]

Glad to read you're netting POS results from the efforts. Looking forward to track-day updates!

[SSLance]

Just realized it's been over a year since I updated my build thread here, and I feel bad about that. I (like so many people) have gotten lazy and usually just post my updates on FB, which I used to complain about then I got sucked in as well. It's just too easy to do that even though I realize and greatly appreciate the value of an actual build thread that can be found easily, saves pictures and details, and can be used for reference sometimes even years later. I'll try to be better with my updates...

Since the 3 link install above I basically spent about 1 year just racing it locally trying to get used to it. My finishes were okay and there were things I loved about the new setup but still things I finally decided needed to be better.

About a month ago I finally started tweaking the setup once again. I corner balanced the car once again (it had been a while), lowered the rear ride height 3/4" and re-aligned the car (also badly needed). I also put the front sway bar back on the stiffest setting.

The results were fantastic, the car lit up especially in slaloms and sweepers. We had a 2 day autocross event in early May and on day 2 I finished P2 out of about 17 cars, 2nd only to Tom Kamman. This was my best finish in a long while and I was really starting to feel it again.

Here was my fast run from day 2. Check out the G meter during the 8 second long 270 degree sweeper...

QhPnCSgzTqI

BTW, you can also hear the new 3" stainless exhaust with Lamineer Flow straight through mufflers we installed last summer. HUGE upgrade even though I hate the dumps in front of the axle.

After that I prepped the car to return to road course racing with NASA at Podium Club . All fluids changed, brakes checked and bled, and a general nut and bolt check. The now 6 year old Stoptech pads are still less than half worn and the rotors still look brand new. I ordered replacements but I'm still going to run these as long as they'll last. I gathered up all my safety gear and headed down for the weekend, much fun was had. It was good to spend some quality time on a road course again and Podium Club did not disappoint.

The best part was I discovered a new thing...Time attack. UMS Tuning that tuned my car last summer sponsors a Time attack session with NASA on Sunday afternoons. Basically you spend the day running in HPDE 3 or 4 and figure out what your best lap times you are running are (I was right around 1:47) then they line up all the TA cars based on fastest time first. I was about 10th our of 28 cars that day. We get the track to ourselves and they release the first 14 cars onto the track about 200 yards apart and we are to keep our pace and distance for the warm up lap, then we go full speed as we come around to get the green flag. We then get 2 full laps of completely clear track at full speed to set our best time then come in. It was a HOOT... Kind of reminded me of autocross only a LOT faster. I screwed up the entry into turn one on my first hot lap but cleaned it up for my second and ran a 1:48.8xx

6PKKvjngZFI

Over the whole weekend I put 170 miles on my car on track, 48 of those 2.32 mile laps were at speed reaching 130 mph on the front stretch every lap. Sunday morning I moved from HPDE3 to HPDE4 and started near the rear of a 40 car pack as I wasn't sure what kind of cars\drivers would be in that group. Here's a video of me picking my way up through the pack, again, so much fun! All of the drivers on track that weekend were so great to run around...courteous, point bys, Atta boys, everyone was so cool.

JuP7C09iFS4

That pretty much gets you back up to date (if anyone read this far :D ). I have one more autocross this Saturday then another track day with NASA Sunday the 23rd then I'm done for the summer. I think the only work I need to do on the car is finally either re-seal or replace my steering box as it's really starting to leak a LOT. Who am I kidding... :D I'm sure I'll find more to do to it during the off season!!

[camcojb]

Thanks Lance, great to hear from you. Car is working, you've got to be happy with the huge amount of progress you've made.

[ScotI]

Still not a FB guy w/zero desire to become one. This site is my 'Go-To' source on these build updates. Glad to see Barney is working well.

The videos are great! That was fun & thanks for updating.

[CHJNCSU]

Thank you for the write up!

[WSSix]

Nice work, Lance. Glad you're beating the hell out of the car and loving it.

[mfain]

Lance,

Good seeing you at Podium Club. Car looked great!

Pappy