1985 Monte Carlo SS known as Barney

[SSLance]

Not really a Barney update but one that will make doing Barney updates a lot easier once again once finished....

Picked this up about noon today. It's a 9000 XLT 4 post drive on lift with 2 manual rolling jacks.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-PTHdj3P/0/96fd6467/X2/20180517_114100-X2.jpg

In the Air Conditioned shop ready to unload.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-3MQvJSw/0/ec698d36/X2/20180517_123001-X2.jpg

Most likely not OSHA approved method of lifting the 400# jacks off the trailer, but it worked...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-pZFV6Xs/0/51eacd40/X2/20180517_133610-X2.jpg

Getting the lift itself off was not bad. I put a car dolly under the front of it when loading it on trailer so all I did was lift the back of lift with engine hoist and drive the trailer out from under it. Once the dolly was near the end of the trailer I set the back end down on another dolly, lifted the front up with hoist then drove the trailer the rest of the way out. Here it is partially unpacked.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-HpRZ9XT/0/87c6b453/X2/20180517_142303-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-59pmdQB/0/2c7ce3f8/X2/20180517_142313-X2.jpg

About 2 hours total got me this far.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Q4bZ6sf/0/df23c71b/X2/20180517_150805-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Hs3TnV6/0/ce268760/X2/20180517_150815-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-NjFPFXk/0/fe1c8bc1/X2/20180517_150822-X2.jpg.

I've recruited the neighbors kid to help me stand up the ends tomorrow then putting the rest of it together shouldn't be that big of a deal. Can't wait to be able to work on cars and trucks once again without laying on the ground...

[jarhead]

great idea to put that dolly under it beforehand

This will be a nice "tool" to have, looking forward to seeing it in use

[GregWeld]

No way I'd roll around on a floor like that!!!


LOL


Getting there buddy!

[gofastwclass]

Very nice. The place is coming together well. :)

[SSLance]

great idea to put that dolly under it beforehand

This will be a nice "tool" to have, looking forward to seeing it in use



Every now and then a chicken stumbles up on a June Bug... :D



No way I'd roll around on a floor like that!!!


LOL


Getting there buddy!



IT is getting there Greg...you can tell by how much DIRT is on that floor!!!




Very nice. The place is coming together well. :)

Thanks, we've made a ton of progress...hopefully we can start to just kick back and enjoy it soon...

[SSLance]

Time for lunch now...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-fBCQN82/0/450ffab5/XL/20180518_112006-XL.jpg

[waynieZ]

Nice addition for a beautiful work space. Someday ..........

[SSLance]

So, Barney fits on the lift...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-TRHGjtc/0/797fc69c/XL/20180519_095451-XL.jpg

The rolling jack fits under the lower control arms but I do have to put the little jack pad extensions under pads so they contact the frame before the jack itself hits the exhaust. With the extension in place, they will not go past the lower control arms. Not a big deal...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-wtzN77n/0/730c6182/XL/20180519_095435-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-5nsw77m/0/0ca65407/XL/20180519_103132-XL.jpg

There is plenty of room on the wall side of the lift. Here is Barney's door opened all the way up.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-MwdNq3N/0/de7a2717/XL/20180521_070419-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-B3G36tT/0/b7e0e252/XL/20180521_070426-XL.jpg

I am going to hang my nut and bolt bins and steel peg board for all of my hanging tools and supplies along the wall in between the posts. They'll be 6-8" out from the wall so it seems like a perfect place to me.

Pretty much all of this on the worlds most expensive workbench will be hanging on the wall next to it in a day or so.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-rqW33nT/0/b8be8631/XL/20180521_075152-XL.jpg

[ADY]

Looks great, wish I had the ceiling height to have something like that. Get that thing anchored to your slab before you get too settled in; just a few years ago there was a 4.1 earthquake not to far from PHX.

[SSLance]

Thanks... I can't anchor it to this post tension floor so I'll have to take my chances I guess. It's damn solid though, doesn't budge a bit even with a car lifted pretty high on it.

[gofastwclass]

Looking great Lance! :D

[waynieZ]

Barney sure looks good up there!

[gofastwclass]

...like a king on a throne. :thumbsup:

[SSLance]

So I picked up another tool to help dial in alignment settings...well two of them actually...

A set of Longacre turn plates...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-DjKmVVm/0/6029db58/XL/20180608_172244-XL.jpg

Working on a few more tools to outfit the new shop as well. Hopefully soon I'll have Barney back on the rack ready to fine tune a few things...

[carbuff]

So I picked up another tool to help dial in alignment settings...well two of them actually...

A set of Longacre turn plates...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-DjKmVVm/0/6029db58/XL/20180608_172244-XL.jpg

Working on a few more tools to outfit the new shop as well. Hopefully soon I'll have Barney back on the rack ready to fine tune a few things...

I have a set of those also for doing alignments. They are really nice!

[SSLance]

Ut oh... What's going on here?

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-MKGwcwK/0/491a9109/XL/20180707_130841-XL.jpg

Finally getting a chance to do some overdue repair and maintenance on Barney. When I installed the new brakes last fall I noticed a fair amount of metal in the rear diff gear oil. I didn't have time to mess with it then so I just drained and refilled with fresh. This is what has kept me from running it on any road courses since then. Today was the day to find out what was going on.

Here is just what came off the drain plug...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-zQDMxW5/0/71bb5718/XL/20180707_130859-XL.jpg

Thankfully, I'm pretty certain it is pinion shaft, crush collar or bearing related and not the locker or gears. You can feel the pinion bind up randomly when spinning it by hand, sometimes bad enough it's hard to turn by hand. The ring gear looks fine to me and there is no extra play anywhere I can find.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-fwqT7z4/0/c5895b73/XL/20180707_115408-XL.jpg

This bearing on this end of the pinion looks fine, must be something further inside...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-7j6kCPS/0/f33bfac2/XL/20180707_115401-XL.jpg

This also gave me the chance to get used to doing work on my drive on lift. It's gone okay but I need a few short jack stands with pads on top to really help make it better. These rolling jacks don't have enough throw to fit under my frame and lift the car high enough in one shot and my jack stands are too tall to get under the frame with rolling jack all the way up. I made it work today but it could be much easier with shorter jack stands. Didn't hit my head on a ramp once either...

[garage_engineer]

Glad to hear its not something too serious! Also very jealous that you have a lift, it must make things so much easier! That's on my wishlist someday...

[SSLance]

That moment when you realize your pinion gear has been the only thing holding your ring gear on for how long....

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-4cdwzwM/0/1cf44b38/X4/20180711_152045-X4.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-tDC37hm/0/267db05b/X4/20180711_161433-X4.jpg

[z28cp]

Woopsy... :confused59:

[SSLance]

Woopsy... :confused59:

Thankfully caught before ending up with similar results like that you encountered recently... Sorry to hear about that...

[z28cp]

Thankfully caught before ending up with similar results like that you encountered recently... Sorry to hear about that...

Thanks. Certainly wasn't the way I wanted to end the day, lol. Oh well, you play long enough, stuff happens. We'll get her back together for next season.

[gofastwclass]

Wow! I've never had that happen. Glad you checked on this before things got really bad!

[SSLance]

It is amazing how much better a car drives when it's ring gear is firmly attached to the carrier!! :D YUGE difference... Guess i hadn't realized just how sloppy the drive train had gotten over time. It's been bad for a while now. Can't believe all of the races I've run with it like that as well.

Also spent some quality time given so love to a few other things back there while it was on the rack. Felt some looseness in the lower control arm joints so I pulled them all and gave them a refresh. Beautiful thing about UMI Roto-Joints, 100% servicable... Each one was a 1/4 - 1/2 turn loose on the adjuster but each delrin piece looked perfect so I cleaned them up, put a layer of grease on the center piece and put them back in the arms. Pretty sure the looseness I felt was the actual control arms bolts themselves backing out just a bit. I haven't touched ANY of that stuff since I put them in almost 5 years ago now...they should be good to go for another 5 years of abuse now.

The parking brake setup needed a bit of love as well. The Stoptech setup uses an internal parking brake shoe (C6 I believe with some other GM parts thrown in) and when I put it all in I just set them up super loose. They worked but at some point one of the cables came out of the connector and a clip that holds the top of one of the shoes in place also broke. Since I was in there anyway and had a bit more time I replaced the broken clip and made sure it all went together properly. I then spent a bunch of time adjusting them and making sure each side rotated freely and tightened up with the same amount of pull on the cables. They should be good to go now as well.

Lastly, the last time I raced the car, when I put it on the trailer to bring it home, I wrapped the tie down strap around the RR flex line to the caliper. When I got home I noticed brake fluid everywhere... **eek** Thankfully, all it did was loosen the banjo bolt up when it pulled the cable back and I was able to snug the bolt back up and stop the leak. The Master cylinder was very close to being out of fluid but I put more in before ever pressing the pedal so I didn't need to bleed it again...but we did re-bleed the rear calipers to make sure all of the air was out and checked all the lines and fittings one more time for leaks. That's all good now too...

Lastly was a road trip around town in the 110 degree afternoon heat with the AC on to see how the cooling system would handle it. After figuring out the diff was MUCH better I rolled the windows up, cranked the AC and cruised around for a bit. It stayed near 180 where the stat opens up for a while but several waits at stop lights in a row got it to creeping up. A little break in traffic stopped it from climbing but the next set of stop lights had it creeping up again so I turned the AC off to see if that helped. It leveled off about 210-215 degrees, warmer than I like but not bad really...then I noticed that I hadn't turned the fans on high with my manual switch. Pretty sure the auto switch turns them on high at 215 degrees. So I hit the switch then turned the AC back on and cruised around a bit some more. It dropped back down to around 200 and stayed there...stoplights, slow speed cruising, even idling around the neighborhood a few times. I think that'll do...

The AC cooled the car right down and worked like a champ. It's had a slow oil leak for over 4 years now, every now and then I'll find green fluid under the hose where it comes out of the accumulator...I have NO IDEA how it keeps running and cooling like it does. The fan switch only works on high though... Isn't there a fix for that? Seems like I've seen others with that issue. High is fine but frankly, it could use to run a speed or two lower once the car is cooled down, even when it's 110 degrees outside.

Anyway, good to get a bunch of little things down to it, maybe now I can drive it a bit more regularly and who knows...maybe even hit a track day or two soon... :D

[gofastwclass]

Glad all the little things are working, I'm sure it makes the car so much more fun.

Anyway, good to get a bunch of little things down to it, maybe now I can drive it a bit more regularly and who knows...maybe even hit a track day or two soon... :D

...With the AC on? :popcorn2:

[Vegas69]

Two hundred is great in Phoenix mid summer! Mine used to run 210-215 and I didn't sweat it. It's terrible for a carb and modern gas, but I never worried about the engine.

[SSLance]

I did a track day at Inde Motorsports ranch this weekend and had a blast. Love my new Stoptech brakes, this is where they really show their worth.

Here is a video a friend posted after following me for a few laps Sat afternoon. I'll post my in car videos up later after I have time to get them ready. Figured this would wet your appetites for now...

https://youtu.be/AgOJuaXcdK4

[rixtrix1]

Looks like you were having a good time at Inde, except for the wiggle at 2:50 and the off at 5:00(same corner?). Barney was hanging with a pretty good crowd and holding his own. What was your top speed on the straight, if you had time to notice? Thanks for the link!

[SSLance]

Thanks... It was a blast...

The first big wiggle was a 4th to 1st downshift... Another time in that same corner I did a 4th to 5th downshift... I think it may be time to check the shift rails on my T56. The off was caused by me braking too late as I crested the hill and lifted the rear tires causing it to wheel hop. I gathered it back up and kept on rolling though...and put my two best laps of the day down not long after.

I hit 118 mph on the straight the last few times but what was more impressive to me was I was just over 100 mph up the hill thru the wiggles after the long straight. That was a BLAST!!!

[SSLance]

So this video is kind of long, some will like to watch it all, others will either want to FF to the 6:10 mark to watch some drama or the 10:50 mark to watch my fastest two laps of the day.

5PhoZxxRq_M

Had a blast running at Inde, what a great track. Loved how technical it was and especially how little there was to run into if you did happen to have an off. It is pretty easy to navigate around yet can be very difficult to really put a fast lap down, lot in the driver's hands there.

The car did fantastic, I really love the new brakes. I didn't really start testing them deep into braking zones until later on Sunday, I kind of snuck up on that as I've never driven a car on course before with this kind of stopping power. Once you realize that yes...it is going to whoa down in a hurry from just about any speed, you can REALLY drive deep into corners and make up a lot of ground on others that can't brake quite like that. It is exhilarating!!!

One other thing that has changed on the car since the brake\spindle upgrade is the front is stuck like glue with the additional ackerman and camber gain...so much so that there is little to none front tire wear even with the high speed sweepers on this course. I wish I had figured this out sooner as I left my worst tires on the rear (hurt them at Good Guys) and my good pair up front and after day one my left rear was toast...almost zero tread left on it while the front tires still looked fantastic. I put the bald rears on the front for Sunday and the one hurt the most on the left front where it would take the least amount of work since we were running backwards that day. Even after 3 hard sessions, the front with zero tread on it still stuck like glue and showed no more wear.

BTW, be sure to notice how my little truck engine kept up with all the LS powered cars down the straights (and even coming out of the corners)...even though I was down probably 50-75 hp running at 4100 feet with a carb tuned to run at 850 feet. ;) If you listen close you can hear it gurgling coming out of just about every corner. It did fine on the big straights once cleaned, out but it really did load up on slower corners.

Now it's time to clean Barney up, assess the wear items...and prep it for another day...

[SSLance]

This was my last session on Sunday. We ran the course in reverse with one small change...

56_1FLNDzVY

I was leery of my tire wear and the car didn't quite feel right so I quit pretty early in the session after a few good clean hot laps. After the car sat in paddock for a while, I noticed the left rear going flat. Good thing I quit early and this finished my day.

Still haven't investigated what it picked up and don't really care...as all tires are shot now.

[rixtrix1]

Are you running 600# springs front and rear? Some sections the car seemed to be "bouncing" or skipping over bumps. Just wondering.

[SSLance]

I now have 700s up front and 600s out back.

I think it's just that kind of track, there are some areas of the surface with "character". Plus, I don't feel like "bouncy" is actually bad in respect to handling. As long as the car is balanced in the corners and puts the power down on corner exit without drama...it's all good.

[SSLance]

Sometimes when you make an upgrade to a car, you make other weaknesses appear and become prevalent. Such was the case after we added the ATS spindles and new brakes to Barney. The increased Ackerman and better camber gain created a bunch more front grip which made the front of the car roll way more in turns. This increased roll released the inside rear tire more than before causing both a loose in condition because the brakes would lock up and slide the inside rear tire as well as a free post apex condition. This became ever so apparent when we reviewed the pictures from the Good Guys event last March.

https://photos.smugmug.com/2018-Good-Guys-Spring-Nationals/i-wkFkqxh/0/ae20da39/X2/DSC_0928-X2.jpg

The grip was great and the car was fast...but if we could tame the roll down and get the inside rear tire back into the track again, it will be even better. So a plan for a new front sway bar was put into place. Since I already had a few steps stiffer than the stiffest bolt in sway bar available for a G-Body, we decided to step up to a weld in tube style mount for a 3 piece splined end front bar. This will give us a ton of more options for front bar specs...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Gfxkvhd/0/ddabcfdc/XL/20180907_133130-XL.jpg

Now that the parts are here, I can take things apart and see just how and where it is all going to fit. I know the UMI front triangulation brace will either need to be cut up or replaced with something custom made as well as it is directly in the way of where this tube needs to go. I love that part...it is awesome!! I kind of hate to cut it up but that may be the best option rather than just starting from scratch.

The tube, bar, and swing arms will all hang under the frame and I'll weld double shear tabs on the front of my control arms for the end links to bolt to. It looks like these swing arms will end up 4-5 inches shorter than the ones on the the current MuscleBar which means the bar will need to be about directly under the pitman and idler arms instead of up in front of them where the current bar rides. The shorter arms help with way less leverage on the bar which means a stiffer overall rate (less roll).

I have new tires being mounted up Tuesday and have a local SCCA Autocross Next Sunday the 16th, so I'll probably wait until after the 16th to start taking things apart. The goal is to have the new bar in place and tuning done at an SCCA event before the Good Guys Fall show the 2nd weekend in November. Wish me luck!!!

[gofastwclass]

Wow Lance, looks like things have gotten serious. :D

[SSLance]

Added my Solostorm data overlay to my fast lap from Saturday's session.

dx9w72wPx2M

And here was Sunday's lap running counter clockwise.

f9Vxt0mBiqU

[rixtrix1]

Cool Vids, Lance! Perhaps you can cut and tie the frame brace into the sway bar tube. Bringing my helmet on the 16th!

[SSLance]

Raced with AZSOLO SCCA yesterday. Put brand new tires on a couple days before so it took a run or two to get the mold release off them...then it stuck pretty darn good. Didn't hear any fender\tire contact anywhere even with a 270# passenger in the right seat on my last and fastest run so the work with the Fender roller might have been enough to fix the issue at autocross speeds.

Here was the fastest run of the day.

-7gD0qIUUBI

Got about a month before the next local SCCA race and have the opportunities to do some road course stuff soon as well...but thinking about pulling the shocks to do some work on them and working on the sway bar install instead. Would love to have the sway bar installed and tested BEFORE Good Guys in early November.

[SSLance]

Sometimes you have to go back a few steps before you can move forward...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-fvPXGnn/0/2d6f2d38/XL/20180922_104751-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-G6t3n9h/0/cf947c71/XL/20180922_104851-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-NVQT538/0/6358a8dd/XL/20180922_105034-XL.jpg

The shocks needed to go back to Ridetech for some updates and I had to pull the fronts anyway so I could cycle the suspension to check for bind on the new sway bar end links, so I decided now was a good time to kill two birds at once. Also pulled the MuscleBar and UMI Triangulation brace to get it out of the way for now.

Here is a good shot showing the difference between the MuscleBar and the new MMF front bar that will replace it. The main glaring difference is the swing arms that are about 4-5" shorter on the new bar. This greatly reduces the lever pulling on the bar which helps increase the overall roll stiffness.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Kh2vkQG/0/11f38e8b/XL/20180922_105312-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-XJFffvg/0/72ae5397/XL/20180922_105436-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-bPXSs72/0/d7e1e2fe/XL/20180922_105354-XL.jpg

At the moment my welder can't reach my car so zip ties are holding everything in place. It's close to where it needs to be but will get tweaked once I can hold things exactly in place better. This is at pretty close to ride height.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-d3BNBGj/0/d95a7a3b/XL/20180922_142830-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-FgcwRd5/0/3fd9a403/XL/20180922_142853-XL.jpg

And bad news for those lusting for leftover parts...it appears the UMI Triangulation brace will still work which I'm VERY happy about.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-N66GxMw/0/9e659c1c/XL/20180922_143014-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-4f4DQ6m/0/b19cca87/XL/20180922_143023-XL.jpg

I need to pick up some hardware, get some smaller welding wire and some electrical material to make an extension cord.....then I'll be ready to start tacking things in place. Pretty sure the sway bar stands will land right on the frame under where the factory sway bar bushings mounted. The frame is large and beefy there and welding it up shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Plan is to start with the swing arms pointed down to the control arms about an inch at ride height with the endlinks straight up and down then cycle everything to check for interference or bind.

I have to add as well...I'm very much enjoying having a put together shop once again to work in. I'm getting more and more used to working on the drive on lift...it hasn't fought me at all on this project yet and in fact has made some things just a bit easier than it would be on a two post lift.

[jarhead]

Nice update, sorry Barney is down.

I always enjoy the technical posts.

[SSLance]

Nice update, sorry Barney is down.

I always enjoy the technical posts.

Thanks Joe...

Hopefully it won't be down too long, things look like they'll be a lot easier to get into place than I was initially afraid of.

[rixtrix1]

Good to see everything will fit together as before with the new ARB!

[SSLance]

So the sway bar end link tabs are now secured to the lower control arms.

Remember...I am NOT an accomplished welder... :EmoteClueless:

I spent way more time making sure that these welds were strong than making them look pretty. :D Hindsight, I should have busted the lower ball joints loose and dropped the arms down for the final welding, this would have made getting into the tight spots a WHOLE lot easier.

These are the tabs that came with the sway bar kit.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-87zZR5r/0/bc058dd7/L/20180927_082316-L.jpg

As you can see they are designed to weld onto a round tube. My Ridetech True Turn arms are square out toward the ends where the tabs needed to go and I also wanted to get the tabs as high as I could to keep the endlinks from being lower than the dropped shock mounts.

So I picked up some pre-fab tabs from a local shop that were not only meant to weld onto a flat piece but also just a bit longer to give me a bit more room to work. I notched the tabs to put them higher on the arm as well as move the inside tab back to help with overall alignment. This placement lets the rod ends on the end links travel without bind full bump to full extension.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-8VdrbqH/0/fd1a6696/L/20181002_145658-L.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-DhSsQMv/0/ffb1a165/L/20181002_145728-L.jpg

I cut a plate for the back side of the tabs that were above the lower control arm and welded it to the tabs as well as the arms for additional support.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-fZjQ378/0/74c9204c/L/20181002_145936-L.jpg

I'm fully confident these are plenty strong to support and effort the wway bar puts on them.

While I have the lower arms exposed, I decided to try to fix up the steering stop. The arms have a stop designed to work with the stock G-Body spindles but the ATS spindle misses it.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-ZZpbNg7/0/f301e77f/L/20181003_080028-L.jpg

This picture is pretty close to where I need the spindle to stop.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-DbgtB8F/0/d61d0d4a/L/20181003_080041-L.jpg

All of the extra Ackerman that came with these spindles puts the back of the inside front tire into the frame pretty significantly at about 27 degrees steering angle. It isn't noticeable under most circumstances but did come into play pretty harshly at the Good Guys autocross event.

I was hoping to be able to just modify the stop already there but it looks like my only option is to just weld a new stop onto the arm closer to the ball joint and further in on the arm. That is today's project.

Then I'll move forward with attaching the tube to the frame and final placement of the rest of the sway bar. The shocks are away getting tweaked so I'm not really in a hurry. They should be back sometime next week and I'll be ready for them by then I hope.

[ur-n-8]

Is the suspension at full droop in the last photo?

[SSLance]

Yeah, it's in full droop in all of those.

[SSLance]

I'm really struggling with if I really want the head of the steering arm bolt to be what hits the steering stop on the control arm. I'd rather it not but there just isn't that much room for anything else to be what hits a stop.

[SSLance]

I think I know what to do here... This is the stop as it currently sits.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-8CznRnk/0/d42b3385/L/20181004_115229-L.jpg

This is where it goes when the back of the tire touches the frame.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-v7QmHTt/0/a61944cd/L/20181004_115147-L.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-c4TwMNW/0/a9a531cc/L/20181004_115103-L.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-kWk4FGS/0/e606fe14/L/20181003_080308-L.jpg

I'm thinking I need to get some steel the same thickness as the current stop and butt weld it to the stop extending it the length I need it to be. Thoughts?

Hardest part might be deciding just how far to extend it... And the welding it well enough so it doesn't break off of course... :D

[SSLance]

Well, that worked out pretty good actually...

Found some scrap steel just a touch thinner than the stop on the A arm, cut it to size and butt welded it onto the end extending the stop about the thickness of my finger.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-8wwrg7s/0/2a5f7f0b/XL/20181007_150018-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-47SSkJ3/0/d7b664d9/XL/20181007_151624-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-wzrNjB2/0/918660ba/XL/20181007_152113-XL.jpg

Can just fit my finger between the edge of the tire and the frame at full lock now.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-CWTBRd9/0/fed2d067/XL/20181007_152140-XL.jpg

Left a little wiggle room for tire deflection just in case. I must say, it is going to be nice being able to turn to the stop without having the tire dig into the frame once again...been YEARS since I could do that.

Now onto mounting up the tube portion of the sway bar...

[SSLance]

I also found something else during this project. The steering stop on the pass LCA was "bent" a little bit and the side of it hit the steering arm before the end of it hit the spindle. This was limiting the right hand turn enough to keep the tire off of the frame (also limiting how sharp it would turn to the right).

Since I did all of my measuring and mockup for the stop extension on the driver side, and then just duplicated for the passenger side, you can imagine my surprise when after paint was dry...I put it all back together, put the wheel on and could put my arm between the tire and frame at full lock. :mad:

It took me a bit to figure out was going on...tried to make it turn more by grinding down the end of the stop with no success. Finally took a BFH and bent the stop toward the caliper bolt just a bit and BAM...tire is back to just a finger's width away from the frame.

All of this should have been done a year ago when I put the new spindles on but I just didn't have the time then. The new ATS spindles changed just about everything in regard to suspension travel and tire placement and things just haven't been playing nice together ever since. Finally got the contact patch geometry back to where it needed to be (actually WAY better than before) now I've finally got the suspension travel and tire placement to where it'll all play nice together once again. This is why I waited so long to do the brake upgrade...I knew I'd have to redo everything that I had worked so hard on getting right with the old spindles.

[SSLance]

Got a little metal work and mock up done today... I must say it is pretty nice to be able to raise and lower the ride height with the tires on the ramps and the jack under the cross member. Sure helped when trying to make sure nothing is binding anywhere.

Modded the angled stands to make them straight stands and cut the tube to length and have it set where I think it needs to be.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-rTcjgcQ/0/81244c27/L/20181009_154604-L.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-hZ6nnMQ/0/64a4d721/L/20181009_154628-L.jpg

These show that it really doesn't hang very low at all and I think looks pretty dang racey.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-RFjTWGZ/0/e22bbd81/L/20181009_160209-L.jpg

[GregWeld]

Just an old welders "tip" -- clean all your metal to BARE metal -- BEFORE you make marks and set up stuff -- that way it's ready to tack without moving stuff.

That bar looks like bare metal but it's not -- it needs to be shiny brite clean metal (ditto the standoffs) and wiped with brake clean (NON CHLORINATED - or the phosgene gas will kill you). I prefer Acetone....

You'll be shocked at how much better your welds will come out. And when you tack -- crank up the heat so the tacks get some penetration or they just become weak spots in the weldment.

[SSLance]

Thanks Greg...appreciate the tips.

I'm not quite ready to tack yet... still finalizing position, but wanted to make some marks just in case.

I'll let you know when it's ready for final weld so you can swing by and show me how it's done in person. :)

[GregWeld]

Thanks Greg...appreciate the tips.

I'm not quite ready to tack yet... still finalizing position, but wanted to make some marks just in case.

I'll let you know when it's ready for final weld so you can swing by and show me how it's done in person. :)


As you know from all my past posts --- when I post something I usually am trying to help EVERYONE that reads these threads. Welding is something that almost every project needs - and many here are relative "newbs" or weekend warriors..... and they just don't do much welding. I'm a guy that thinks ANY advantage to helping make a better "whatever" is a good thing. Guys that weld all day everyday can make minor adjustments to position - heat settings etc and crank out a perfect looking weld. Us guys that do it rarely or occasionally need all the help we can get (talking about clean material here). Super clean material will help with porosity - fil flowing - and just generally a better looking better weld. It's the little things in welding that make a huge difference.... like learning to place most of the heat on the thicker material and just barely walking up to catch the thinner piece etc which then really helps with burn thru etc - these are all things we need to be reminded of because we just simply don't weld often enough and in off position or crazy positions (to reach something).

[SSLance]

I get it Greg and yes, we all appreciate it.

It seems like my main issue when welding on the car is vision... I just can't seem to get where I can see the puddle and what I'm welding well enough from one end of a bead to the other. Usually it's my helmet that gets in the way or something or the light I'm using to light up the work area affects the auto-darkening of the helmet or it's just my bad eyesight can focus on the subject at hand.

This is why I'm a MUCH better welder on a bench on a flat surface with lots of light and nothing to work around.

Looks like I get to get some more practice though.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-gdhw4Xt/0/520ad50f/L/20181011_124619-L.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-73x7Ccj/0/8eb892a4/L/20181011_124605-L.jpg

Plan B initiated...

[GregWeld]

We’re all better on flat bench work.... and totally agree on being able to see!!! I’ve saud a million times.... if you can’t see you can weld. The pros can lay it on with just feel. But I need to see!! I had about 6 different helmets. And the new Miller eye glass helmet made for hard to get to places.

[gofastwclass]

Looking good Lance.

I agree with Greg. As a hobby fabricator I learned a long time ago what Greg says is true. Another thing someone much better at welding than I will ever be told me is comfort is everything. If you weren't comfortable (seeing, standing, sitting, etc.) your welds will show it.

I love that you built your car and actually race what you built.

[SSLance]

Well, it's all tacked into place for the last time...Uh...this time anyway. If I happen to knock it off on a speed bump at any time, I do have a plan B. For now it all fits and the suspension travels full extension to full compression without any bind of the end links which is huge. Once I burn in all of the welds I'm pretty confident it'll all stay in place and function great.

Finished cleaning the LCAs up from Plan A, needed a fresh place to start again.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-mvRMD9L/0/74a63891/XL/20181013_094154-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-9CfFNwM/0/8828e196/XL/20181013_094158-XL.jpg

This is the only picture I took of the new tabs secured to the LCA in the new location. They are in closer to the car centerline by 3 Inches or so and canted a bit more than before. I am able to get the lower rod end into either hole in the swing arm without taking the top end loose which is nice.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-zVFD8hX/0/8a07d55b/XL/20181013_151258-XL.jpg

Here is the tube, bar and swing arms hanging in their final spot.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-jg9XMrJ/0/9404c1b1/XL/20181014_133238-XL.jpg

The tube is about an 1/8" below the UMI bar tubes and the bottom of it is about 3/4" lower than the bottom of my cross member.

This is what it looks like from the side at ride height. I "think" it's going to be all right there. I know it'll be fine on any track I race on, my only concern would be any real steep and tall speed bump I may encounter. Going on the trailer will be no issue.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-37MNf2Z/0/2a1c3005/XL/20181014_133155-XL.jpg

Once I sleep on it and am sure I'll leave it this way, I'll pull the swing arms and rod ends, drop the lower ball joints for better access to both sides of the tabs and I'll burn everything in and give it a coat of paint. Then one more assembly and it's off to the races to see how it drives.

I'll have to put the springs back on the front shocks while it's apart and I'll take some pics of the new bump stops and shims to show then. They worked out perfect.

[SSLance]

So it made it's first test drive around the neighborhood yesterday...nothing fell off!!!

:trophy-1302:

0B2SYTMVdA0

First big test was making it out the driveway without scraping, tons of room there. Made first run around with shocks on full soft to fully travel the suspension...no issues. Put race setup in shocks and made another round...really feels good, seems to stay VERY flat up front and rear seems to follow where the front goes which is also good.

Here are the bump stops and shims I put on the front shocks to limit the travel.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-7RqwxvW/0/02ea5ce3/XL/20181017_123857-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-5M3dQGn/0/739ed5d2/XL/20181017_123910-XL.jpg

Basically the new ATS spindles were a bit of a drop spindle from the metric G-Body spindles and I needed to limit the upward travel to keep the tires off the fenders. These bumpstops worked like a champ. It took 3 snap in shims to get to where they stopped the tire right before contact.

This Saturday I'm registered to race in Tucson with the Border Region SCCA. Friend is co-driving and we are doing time only fun runs after so should get about 20 runs total to tweak on the new setup.

[glassman]

Thats awesome! obviously, let us know how the auto-x/trac day goes...

[SSLance]

So, Barney passed initial post race inspection just fine, no issues shown anywhere sway bar related or anywhere else...and we beat it like a rented mule making 17 runs (half back to back) on a long slalom intensive and fast course.

I'm going to share the video of our very first run...completely untested new setup, massive front bar change and completely new shock valving starting with Chris's recommended settings and new bumpstops on front shocks. I basically didn't have a clue what it would do when we headed into first gate. Check it out...

1q_F5lSKJVI

[jarhead]

Very cool Lance[emoji106] Damn that looks like a workout!

How many gears do you use 1 through 3?

Thank you for sharing [emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Vegas69]

Looks to be handling very well! Now it’s time for some HP. Ha

[SSLance]

Very cool Lance[emoji106] Damn that looks like a workout!

How many gears do you use 1 through 3?

Thank you for sharing [emoji106]



You are welcome...always enjoy sharing our fun on course!! We typically get into 2nd gear and leave it there for these types of courses.


Looks to be handling very well! Now it’s time for some HP. Ha

Thanks! Wait until I post the faster videos after we tuned on it for a bit. :D

I read your reply to my wife and she politely disagreed with you. ;)

[SSLance]

After our first initial runs, Mike and I debriefed about what changes we thought it needed. Because we were co-driving in the same heat in run group 2 and run group 3, shock changes were really all we had time to do between runs.

The back was hopping in the two sweepers and we wanted to work on that first. Basically the inside rear tire was lifting which de-cambered the outside rear which would slip and loose grip setting the inside rear on the ground again where it would then lift again, rinse and repeat. It wasn't step out and spin loose but it was unsettling especially to Mike since he'd never driven the car and wasn't sure what it was going to do.

We started by taking 4 clicks of rebound out of the rear shocks and each made a run. It was better, maybe 60-70% better... After the next runs I took 2 more clicks of rebound out of the rears making it very comfortable.

Here were my fastest timed run and Mike's fastest time run.

fzbEDSZytu4

5oADeM4kSko

We then decided that it was pushing a bit if we didn't get completley off of the brakes before turning in after the one big braking zone...so we took 2 clicks of compression out of the front shocks and that helped some. In hindsight, I should have put more rear brake in as well...that would have helped to keep from locking the inside front tire up. Will try that next event.

Here are my fastest Time only run as well as Mike's. I didn't get a time on that run and that was disappointing because I felt it was a good one. Mike's was the fastest of all of our runs and later on I'll lay them side by side in a video just to see if I was close to his blazing fast time.

PYT8L-UaBd0

06XH91fAR1g

Overall the car did great. Mike's last run was a half second faster than Tommy's Camaro which regularly is 1 - 1.5 seconds faster than me. I was only a few tenths off Tommy in the fastest scored run and possibly faster in my run with no time.

I can't wait to tune on it a bit more at one more local event before hitting Good Guys and then changing everything to try to make it work on that style of course. I know this...it won't have the body roll that it had there last spring, that's for sure...

[rixtrix1]

Great vids, Lance. The car definitely looks a lot flatter in the vids and it's nice to see the shock adjustments, though small, made a difference. Looks like you made a big move in the right direction, especially after making a lot of changes at once!

[SSLance]

So, at SEMA a week or so ago...I stumbled across these and had to have them.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Q4tGhhb/0/c07559a3/XL/20181108_085738-XL.jpg

They are Ridetech's new R-Joint cartridges that press into the axle housing ears on my 9" (which still had rubber bushings in them. I'm not sure why I never upgraded the axle bushings but now is as good of a time as any I guess.

Here is a picture showing the rubber bushing on the left and R-Joint on the right.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-5wFmxKZ/0/c318ae88/XL/20181108_114607-XL.jpg

I must say that after putting these in the rear end articulates MUCH easier than with the the rubber bushings. It HAS to be better now right?

Ridetech also has a new rear sway bar setup for A-Body cars with this slick adjusting collar to let you dial the bar rate in easier.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-RNsRDKC/0/65b953d6/XL/20181101_135748-XL.jpg

Bret mentioned it would also work on a G-Body with a few adjustments so they made me up one and it's on the way to me now. I should have it in time to get it installed before heading to Good Guys on Thursday.

When I've run rear bars in the past (tried several times) I had a lot of trouble with the bar picking the inside rear tire up in turns. This had a LOT to do with the outside front tire compressing so much and the resulting diagonal roll lifting the inside rear. Now that I have basically doubled the front sway bar rate, the inside rear has way less tendency to want to lift the tire which has me wanting to try a rear bar once again. This means that I'll have to soften the rear spring rate considerably as well.

I'll have a trunk full of parts and tools with me to make changes at the track if needed, but I think we have a pretty good idea of where to start with the setup. Worst case I can quickly put it back to where I know it works by changing springs and disconnecting the rear bar...but I hope that won't be necessary and I can just work on fine tuning the new setup with way more ways to adjust it now.

Hope to see a bunch of you there at the Duel in the Desert...should be a hoot...

[SSLance]

So I've had a day or so to decompress after the Goodguys 21st Southwest Nationals and thought I'd share my feelings. Last spring I attended my very first Good Guys autocross and loved it, but I knew I had to make some changes to my car so it would handle this kind of course better. With a much stiffer front sway bar to control the roll better, bump stops to limit front suspension travel to keep front tires off the fenders, and steering stops to keep the front tires off the frame...I felt we were ready. After watching the first run, Chris Smith suggested a major shock change, then we made another major shock change after the 2nd run...picking up almost a second on each subsequent run. Before the 4th run we made one more major change going to the stiffer front bar setting and it woke the car up. That run got me within 0.162 seconds of making the top 32 spots and the Duel in the Desert and I'm pretty happy with that. I'm certain that if I had a few more runs in the heat with that last change, I could have gotten into the show.

I have to talk a bit about my StopTech big brake kit on the car. I still run a 1985 master cylinder and booster along with a 1985 disc\drum distribution valve aided only by an add on rear brake proportioning valve and the Stoptech brakes. With the rest of the car now very sorted, I can adjust the front to rear bias with about a turn and a half on the prop valve, going from locking the fronts first to locking the rears first...or somewhere in between. And this brake pad\rotor combination works perfectly...ice cold to last lap on a 20 minute road course track session including low dust street driving. I've had them on the car for a year now with a LOT of events under my belt and the pads and rotors still look almost brand new. Stoptech is adding more and more muscle car application brackets to adapt their big brake kits to the cars we love...and I highly recommend them as a fantastic all around brake package.

The new R-Joints from RideTech in the rear suspension really helped tame the back down. I had zero issues with lifting the rear tire last weekend. In fact, I never touched an adjustment on the rear of the car all weekend...it just flat out worked. The new valving in the Ridetech shocks worked out great as well. I now have a base setting to make them perform great on both big SCCA style courses as well as tight tough Good Guys style courses...with just a slight twist of a couple knobs.

The rest of the car just did what it does...horsepower is good, all systems held up to the abuse, FORGELINE wheels look awesome, and the car seemed to be right in line time wise with the rest of the owner\driver cars in a stacked field of competitors from across the Country. The driver actually needs more work now than the car does in order to really be competitive.

Here's a video of my fast lap of the weekend.

L9UEDYoASRs

Thanks to Allison for taking the picture below, can't wait for a few more on track pics to make their way to the web for viewing since I know there were several great photogs there snapping pics.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-54pZH3v/0/7f3f2fcb/O/46389718_2273343689573070_8119674164584906752_n.jp g

Now I'm on to getting ready for the next event...once I rest up..

[syborg tt]

Great update and I'm looking forward to driving my car with the new R-Joints.

Thank you for sharing the info on the Stop Tech brakes.

Keep the updates coming and I love watching the videos and I love the fact that you did a little clap at the end.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[rixtrix1]

X2 on what Marty said!

Great write up on your GG weekend and the upgrade results! Good to see things worked to your advantage, but just missing the cut is a bummer. See you this Sunday at AZSolo?

[PunisherGTO]

It's taken me a few days but I just got caught up on this thread. Which btw is one of the best ones I've read and it's reassuring people still update posts!! Ive learned a lot and the hardest thing for me is knowing when it's me or the car misbehaving and then knowing what to adjust AND how much.
My car has similar mods and similar problems. Like quick performance 9" and ran it without seals and leaked fluid one side only!! But no issues with sealed bearings. I have rotted frame and body mounts... (Still need to fix that) and loose on corner exit.

[SSLance]

Great update and I'm looking forward to driving my car with the new R-Joints.

Thank you for sharing the info on the Stop Tech brakes.

Keep the updates coming and I love watching the videos and I love the fact that you did a little clap at the end.



Thanks Marty...I was pretty stoked at the pickup in time... :D



X2 on what Marty said!

Great write up on your GG weekend and the upgrade results! Good to see things worked to your advantage, but just missing the cut is a bummer. See you this Sunday at AZSolo?

Yep, I'll be there...hope the school is going well today.



It's taken me a few days but I just got caught up on this thread. Which btw is one of the best ones I've read and it's reassuring people still update posts!! Ive learned a lot and the hardest thing for me is knowing when it's me or the car misbehaving and then knowing what to adjust AND how much.
My car has similar mods and similar problems. Like quick performance 9" and ran it without seals and leaked fluid one side only!! But no issues with sealed bearings. I have rotted frame and body mounts... (Still need to fix that) and loose on corner exit.

Thanks!! I can't believe you read the whole thing!! It's been a journey for sure. Any questions just ask away, our cars aren't that much different.

[PunisherGTO]

That's exactly why I read the whole thing so I wouldn't ask something that you explained at some point. reading the Ron Sutton suspension threads also!!
I installed the Currie version of the R joints in the upper axle mounts. First time out I didn't have them clocked properly and the arms knocked on the housing during hard cornering. I have similar R/Johnny joints at the frame mounts of the rear arms. Lots of movement now.
I've been researching the ridetech coil overs and trying to find pics of the "Moser style" mounts which are like the ones on the quick performance rear axle. That's how I found your thread. Your tuning greatly affecting the car convinced me I need the TQs and the secret sauce valving. I had been struggling if I needed that much adjustment and revalving. Had a crazy thought I could find them on a black Friday sale. But I can't find the Moser style mount anywhere but ridetech

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[SSLance]

Local SCCA race today. Course was way more sweepers, more speed and less slaloms. I left the Proven good Good Guys setup in it just to see what it liked, stiff setting on front bar and front shocks full still low and high speed compression. Car liked it but was loose mid sweeper. Ended up taking rebound out of hte front and adjusting my line to put down a pretty good time.

Here are initial raw results, I'm B18. Time should PAX pretty well with only the best of the best below the high 44s.

http://realtime.azsolo.com/

And my third and fastest run of the day.

GCPp5x5rCLM

[SSLance]

That's exactly why I read the whole thing so I wouldn't ask something that you explained at some point. reading the Ron Sutton suspension threads also!!
I installed the Currie version of the R joints in the upper axle mounts. First time out I didn't have them clocked properly and the arms knocked on the housing during hard cornering. I have similar R/Johnny joints at the frame mounts of the rear arms. Lots of movement now.
I've been researching the ridetech coil overs and trying to find pics of the "Moser style" mounts which are like the ones on the quick performance rear axle. That's how I found your thread. Your tuning greatly affecting the car convinced me I need the TQs and the secret sauce valving. I had been struggling if I needed that much adjustment and revalving. Had a crazy thought I could find them on a black Friday sale. But I can't find the Moser style mount anywhere but ridetech

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I'm not sure what you mean by "Moser style mount" but I know this, the shock mount on the QP housing is different than any other out there and I had to build my own lower shock mounts for the TQs. it's not that difficult and what's better is you can get them to end up exactly where you need them for the shock length you choose.

[PunisherGTO]

Did you choose your shock length or order G body rear coilover?

The Moser style refers to the shock mounting hole is incorporated into the lower control arm mount. (Just like quick performance and currie) Which needs a different bracket to mount coil overs and it Moves the lower shock mount inboard for more tire/wheel clearance.
Factory A body axles have two tabs for lower control arm mount and shock. The mounts for coil overs use the lower control arm bolt and the shock mount together. And usually drilling a third hole above the lower control arm bolt and the axle tube for more strength. 6739967400

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[SSLance]

I have never seen a shock mount like that before...interesting. We chose a 6.3" shock for my car and I built the lower mount to get it as low and as close to the wheel as I could get it.

[SSLance]

So, we had a local SCCA Autocross here last Sunday...and it was awesome! Really fun fast course that was really Barney friendly.

Ended up 14th overall PAX and 15th overall in Raw time out of 118 drivers, my best showing so far with this Region. I haven't turned a knob or bolt on the car in two full events now...just working on driving it better.

Here was my fastest run in the TO fun runs.

HFp8eajyVdk

The front bar on it's stiffest setting really has the rear tires planted on the big fast sweepers, something the car has NEVER had before. And there isn't even the slightest hint of a push anywhere.

These pictures were taken entering the right hand showcase turn about mid point in the run.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-mL2CsfW/0/f287dedf/XL/IMG_7514_edited-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-5PZPV4m/0/2fb396e2/XL/IMG_7541_edited-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-NRzgSfZ/0/0590a389/XL/IMG_7542_edited-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-NcLNHRW/0/1b28193d/XL/IMG_7543_edited-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-FG97MF4/0/60860f74/XL/IMG_7517_edited-XL.jpg

To say I'm happy with the performance would be an understatement. I had a very accomplished autocrosser ride in and drive the car Sunday and he had good things to say about the car as well, saying it handles well and is very balanced. He gave the driver some pointers which helped me set my fast time on my last run and he mentioned a couple of things that felt strange to him about the car. Most were "analog" deals vs the "digital" cars he is used to driving but one of them is something that I'm aware of and will be dealing with next. It's not crucial but it is near the top of the list for future enhancements.

Meanwhile, I'm going to just keep driving it into the ground and enjoying the heck out of my winter racing season.

[GregWeld]

Sutton taking credit for all your work???


LOL


Glad it’s all coming together for you!

[gofastwclass]

Meanwhile, I'm going to just keep driving it into the ground and enjoying the heck out of my winter racing season.


Good plan! :D

Though I am a bit jealous of the winter racing season. Did you sell all your coats yet Lance?

[SSLance]

Glad it’s all coming together for you!

Thanks Buddy...one of these days I need to get you in the right seat for a run...

Good plan! :D

Though I am a bit jealous of the winter racing season. Did you sell all your coats yet Lance?

I brought 2 or 3 of my best ones with me and still have them...just in case ;)

[SSLance]

Did a little bit of photo editing this morning. Gotta thank Chris Niemeyer for grabbing these great action shots.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-3WqN3Hf/0/eda2c02a/X2/IMG_7542_edited%203-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-N6chW4L/0/49be0ab0/XL/IMG_7516_edited%202-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-hhGG8Sm/0/962d5d99/X3/IMG_7517_edited%202-X3.jpg

Look at that contact patch!!

[Tinker]

Look at that contact patch!!

Job well done Lance. That looks WAY better than before the new sway bar install!

[rixtrix1]

Great pics, Lance. You really were flying around that corner all day. I did notice a lot of rear brake lockup though, especially in the lefthander preceding this sweeper.

[SSLance]

Job well done Lance. That looks WAY better than before the new sway bar install!

Thanks Chris!!

Great pics, Lance. You really were flying around that corner all day. I did notice a lot of rear brake lockup though, especially in the lefthander preceding this sweeper.

Thanks Ric. I noticed that I could hear the rear tires sliding when I watched the videos back but never felt them cause a loose condition on corner entry. I've got the bias down to about a half turn between locking the fronts first or locking the rears first and locking the fronts first does cause a push. Depending on what the next course looks like I may put a quarter turn more on the fronts for a run just to see how it does.

[Blake Foster]

Did a little bit of photo editing this morning. Gotta thank Chris Niemeyer for grabbing these great action shots.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-3WqN3Hf/0/eda2c02a/X2/IMG_7542_edited%203-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-N6chW4L/0/49be0ab0/XL/IMG_7516_edited%202-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-hhGG8Sm/0/962d5d99/X3/IMG_7517_edited%202-X3.jpg

Look at that contact patch!!


looks like Darrel Waltrip driving !!! lol Bugggidie buggidie
nice work

[GregWeld]

Sure appears to run a lot flatter

[SSLance]

looks like Darrel Waltrip driving !!! lol Bugggidie buggidie
nice work

Thanks Blake... It freaks me out how serious my face looks in these pics...

I'm having fun at this REALLY!!! :D

[SSLance]

One of the best testaments to a well setup car (besides great handling) is even tire wear.

I put new tires on Barney in October 2018. Since then I've run 2 SCCA Autocross events (one with a co-driver plus fun runs\20 long slalom intensive runs), 1 Good Guys event, and 4 more SCCA autocross events. I haven't rotated the tires once during all of this.

Today I took them off the car for inspection and was impressed enough with the even wear across all four tires that I thought I'd share.

You'll have to look close at these pics and know what to look for but if you pay particular attention to the center rib on each of the four tires, you can see how all 4 of them are wearing very VERY evenly...


https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-jtw3HPv/0/05a767c4/XL/20190205_134016-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-4XWw2n6/0/85b35e74/XL/20190205_133957-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-8JBh5ds/0/7c98349b/X2/20190205_134038-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-jfK27z3/0/41db66b1/X2/20190205_134049-X2.jpg

I'll probably rotate the rears to the front as there is just a bit more wear on the rears (probably just from the Good Guys event) and these should last me thru most of the summer at this rate.

If I really wanted to extend the life of these, I'd pay to have them flipped on the rims...and that's probably not that bad of an idea either.

[rixtrix1]

Car is obviously working good, Lance, but we already know that, huh?! Definitely a fantastic tire choice for your application!

[SSLance]

So this autocross thing can be a fickle bitch sometimes... I like to think that I'm getting pretty good at it and then I have an event like Sunday where I think I'm doing okay speed wise...and I end up 41st in raw time out of 130ish drivers. It wasn't just me though, a lot of the drivers I typically run similar times to in different cars were also way down on the time chart while others were way higher than normal. I'm still trying to process why and one of the things that helps is to watch videos from those that went faster on the same course.

Here was my fastest timed run in Group B (the one that counts). 46.243

g0u3vSgxSnc

Later in the Time only runs, I used the data from my solostorm and new 8" tablet to find ways to pick up speed.

E20 CAM-T TO Lance Hamilton 1985 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS 45.763 45.471 45.263 45.068

Here is my 45.068 run with data

fTYurD745jE


Now, to totally blow our minds...here is Brian Peters in a 2018 1LE putting down a 42.879 in the cool run Group B I was in...

https://www.facebook.com/brian.peters.96995/videos/10156247955797333/

He later ran a 42.562 in time onlys...

The full results are here

http://www.azsolo.com/backup/index.php/events-info/results

You can sort by fast time, PAX or class...

The car ran great and it's ready for Good Guys this week...and I got to share my hobby with a couple of our new neighbors that had never experienced autocross before. So it's all good.

[SSLance]

https://youtu.be/zX2dVDkamVM

http://goodguysautocross.com

[mfain]

Looked good on the course! Congrats on making it to the shoot-out!!!

Pappy

[SSLance]

Thanks Pappy! Good to see you once again, thanks for stopping by.

[rixtrix1]

Way to go, Lance. Great time at Goodguys!

[SSLance]

So, that was a pretty fun weekend overall. This was my third Good Guys event and my first one with the new Street Machine rules which limit front tire size to a 285 max. Overall car count was down a bit because Optima was at Vegas this same weekend, but we still had a full crowd in SM which made for a lot of fun. Late in the afternoon on Friday the grid thinned out, the temps came up and those of us that stayed were treated to some hot lapping under great conditions. This let us get some heat into the tires and really cut our times down. At one point there were 4 of us from 2nd place to 5th place all within 3 tenths of each other and each of us kept getting faster on every run...it was a blast. haven't had that much fun racing with competitive speed cars and drivers in a long time. Mark Allen, Chris Hall, Adam Watkins, Rob Crosswhite and myself were all neck and neck and I luckily squeaked in a 43.047 late in the afternoon to secure second place. Tim Molzen had all all covered for first in his 63 Dodge Dart and ended up winning the class and having a very respectable showing in the shootout on Saturday.

This was an early run my Cousin Dale shot from the back side of the course. So thankful to get great on course video like this of the car...

5x3NOb6NrC8


Basically on this course, one had to time everything just right to carry the most speed into the corner, get the car whoa'd down and turned without sliding the fronts or the rears...then get back on the gas ASAP without blowing the rear tires off of it. Early on data showed I was slowing way too much on corner entry which was killing my corner speed. I put my tablet and GPS in Tom Kammans car for a run then compared his run data with mine and it showed me exactly where I had to go faster to pick up the 1-2 seconds I was leaving on the table. Thanks to Tom big time for the help and camaraderie all weekend long, he killed it in his C4 making it to the final two in the shootout Saturday afternoon.

Here was a later run where I was starting to put it all together.

ohYAwyBFDoQ


This run was from inside on my 43.047 which was my fastest time of the weekend.

zX2dVDkamVM


I was also helping Mike Hitt in his big beautiful blue Chevelle to find speed and even took a run behind the wheel of it. Me and manual brake cars just don't get along on an autocross course...eventually I'll talk Mike into putting a booster on his car. :D Had a blast in it though and he really picked up time even on Saturday morning before a part failure ended his day early.

Zf1WtgfudDQ


Here are some pictures of some of the other cars we raced with as well of some of Barney. Again, shout out to Dale for the great shots. had a great weekend, car came home pretty much in one piece...and the driver\crew chief came home with some new ideas to make it run better at the next show.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Q6PSsWM/0/71595e93/XL/DSC08228-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-RvhbggW/0/d9ebfa91/XL/DSC08229-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Zdxrnz6/0/c182b54e/X2/DSC08231-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-sxhpLsC/0/a0d02eed/XL/DSC08232-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-XFwVhcG/0/d35254a6/XL/DSC08233-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-b2BnqR9/0/c7a0649b/XL/DSC08235-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-sbjDqpc/0/d4483ae7/X2/DSC08237-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-WdWcCqG/0/79092862/XL/DSC08238-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-TFSKPfP/0/3796ec50/XL/DSC08239-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-4ctN7ws/0/ef37e5e2/X2/DSC08240-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-r9CLMMf/0/c058fbb0/XL/DSC08241-XL.jpg

[rixtrix1]

Great vids and pics. thanks!

[SSLance]

Way to go, Lance. Great time at Goodguys!

Thanks Ric, it was a blast...even if I did stink up the show on Saturday.

Couldn't find my arse with both hands on the second day for some reason...

[carbuff]

So, that was a pretty fun weekend overall. This was my third Good Guys event and my first one with the new Street Machine rules which limit front tire size to a 285 max.

Woah, wait, what?

Apparently I missed the memo that the SM class is now limiting the front tire size at GG events! That, well, sucks after all of the work I've done to get a 315 front tire on TOW! Hmm...

Well, anyway, congrats on what looked like a really fun weekend!

[SSLance]

Yup, added a Pro X class for the lightweight funny cars, Pro is fat big tire cars, SM small tire cars. Personally Im a fan... Changed the shootout format as well. ProX against Pros, SM against HR and Trucks...

[SSLance]

Coming in hot!!!

https://photos.smugmug.com/Good-Guys-Spring-2019/i-Vkq5CjZ/0/9c44c51a/XL/DSC_0017-XL.jpg

A whole bunch more great photos Amanda Hitt took last weekend here...

https://adventurewife.smugmug.com/Good-Guys-Spring-2019/

[Flash68]

Nice pics Lance.

[ScotI]

So, that was a pretty fun weekend overall. This was my third Good Guys event and my first one with the new Street Machine rules which limit front tire size to a 285 max.

What is your current wheel sizing info? I know you started w/some 17x9.5's w/5.0"BS. I was re-reading back through the posts to see if any changes were made when you updated/swapped wheels but haven't found the info yet.

[SSLance]

What is your current wheel sizing info? I know you started w/some 17x9.5's w/5.0"BS. I was re-reading back through the posts to see if any changes were made when you updated/swapped wheels but haven't found the info yet.

The new Forgelines are 18 x 9.5 w/5.0 backspace on all four.

[hackster]

Nice work man, sounds like a super fun weekend overall. Car seems to be doing really well.

You are getting my interest up in heading south for a Goodguys event to tryout their autocross.

Thanks for the write up.....and getting your car out and using it.

Sean

[ScotI]

The new Forgelines are 18 x 9.5 w/5.0 backspace on all four.

Thanks for the info & the posts sharing all your efforts/mods.

[SSLance]

Started placing orders for parts today... The next stage of development is in the works.

It is strange to be pulling the car apart in April while all of my friends are just now getting their season started...but I've raced hard for the last 8 months and wore out a brand new set of tires since Sept 2018. It's time for a bit of a break...and to take a step back and take care of some things that need addressing.

A couple of events ago an old problem reared it's ugly head once again, the seal between the top plate and the body of the carburetor failed and now has the engine running VERY rich at the most inopportune times. I first noticed the delay in throttle response at the Good Guys event and then the last SCCA race of the year Keith and I struggled with keeping it running at idle and dealing with a slight delay in corner exit throttle. I watched him idle at the start line with black smoke just pumping out the tailpipes and made my decision. It is time to add EFI.

The Quadrajet has served me well, Bob built me a beautiful carb and in a perfect world...I'd leave it on. Operator error caused this issue the first time and it worked well for two years after the band-aide fix by Bob. With my new location here and the ability to race at elevations from Sea level up to 4500 feet within hours, I need a fuel delivery system that will comply with different oxygen levels easier.

Here is what I've chosen, starting from the fuel pump. After a LOT (and I mean a WHOLE LOT) of deliberation, I've decided to try the Holley EFI Muscle car tank (actually a Tanks Inc setup) that comes with a deeper cell, separate holes pre-drilled for sending unit and fuel pump\pickup and a 4.3 lt sump for the pickup to sit in.

https://images.holley.com/19-144.jpg

https://images.holley.com/tankcutaway.jpg

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_tanks/efi_conversion_fuel_tanks/parts/19-144

This will attach to my stock fuel line in a returnless type setup headed to the throttle body and the vent will attach to the vent line that runs up to the charcoal canister. The pump being internally regulated lets me dead head the fuel line at the throttle body and allows for a more plug n play install.

For the throttle body itself, I chose the Terminator EFI 4 bbl Throttle Body kit. This will sit on top of an Edlebrock Single plane high rise intake manifold. The main reason I chose the Terminator is because of the separate ECU which I can mount in a safe place and attach a laptop to for very fine tuning once I get it all up and running. The Sniper setup was a close second but I think I'll like the Terminator setup a bit better even though it's a bit more involved to install.

https://images.holley.com/550-405.jpg

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/terminator_efi/terminator_4bbl_tbi_kits/4bbl_tbi_kits/parts/550-405

Lastly, I spent the last day or so watching videos and researching ignition setups...trying to find the best reliable easy to setup ignition that the Terminator ECU can control the timing on. I was looking at the Holley Dual Sync and Hyperspark distributor setups and during one install video I noticed that setting up the dual sync is almost exactly the same as what I went thru to set up my MSD Pro-Billet Distributor that my 6AL-2 controls the timing on now. After a bit more investigation I discovered that I can in fact use my MSD Pro Billet distributor and 6AL-2 with the Terminator. This made me happy as I KNOW it works plus I don't have to lay out the cash and spend the time setting it all up once again.

I have found a local tuner with vast knowledge of this software and access to a dyno, so I'll most likely have him fine tune everything once all of the self learning is done and I've got some miles on the setup. It'll be interesting to see how a leaner WOT and that single plane intake will help my top end power.

So, the parts are ordered...hopefully most will be here before the end of the week and I can prepare to start laying things out. I am going to make some other changes as well like moving the O2 sensor up into the header collector and adding V-Band connectors to the header flanges and exhaust as well as trying a new better header gasket for between the flange and the head. I am also going to move the MSD and coil out from under the dash back into the engine bay to try to stop the interference with my Dakota Digital Dash that makes it read 15 MPH while sitting still.

My goal as always is for this upgrade to not take the car down for more than 2 weeks...which will require a lot of pre-planning. Wish me luck!!

[rixtrix1]

So, you're not going port FI? Does this setup have enough juice to fuel your HP level without maxing the injectors? Specs on the tank say it only good to 550HP on EFI @60psi. Can you put a higher capacity pump in it?
It certainly should give you pretty much instant throttle response and infinite control over your inputs, as well, like you said, being able to run various different altitudes pretty much the same. I know you'll keep us posted!

[SSLance]

If Edlebrock had their Etec mpfi intake available I probably would have, but it's not in stock and no expected ship date. My fastburn heads are awesome, but they sure made this process more difficult.


This TBI flows 950 cm and is good for 600 hp which I'm nowhere near.

[SSLance]

So I have 4 coolant temp sensors currently wired up on my engine...and I can only think of 3 that I need. Anyone have any idea why I ended up with 4? :D

I'm game planning on where to put the new coolant temp sensor for the EFI (which will let me delete any that are electric fan related) but I'm not ready to disassemble the car just yet.

First is in Passenger side head, pretty sure it was the last one I added and is the cooler of my fan switch sensors.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-jzdD5tR/0/c08dc637/XL/20190502_110259-XL.jpg

Second is in the Driver side head, pretty sure it is for my Dakota Digital Dash

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-M5dqXbG/0/a76c6e92/XL/20190502_110242-XL.jpg

These two are in my Thermostat housing, pretty sure one of them is the second switch for the high speed fans, the other, have no clue...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-VLbkBxW/0/614e8bdb/XL/20190502_110319-XL.jpg

What the hell would I need a 4th one for? It sucks to get old!!

[GregWeld]

You should only need ONE —- for the ECU — it should be capable of supporting TWO fans set at different temps etc.... and it should have an output for the digital dash...

Not familiar with that particular ECU - but it should be capable of doing all kinds of stuff.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[SSLance]

But then I'd just have to find plugs to plug all those holes back up!!

I'm not sure if this ECU has an output for the Dakota gauges to use or not. Prefer to not mess with the dash wiring if I don't have to...as I know it already works. :D

[GEARBOXGARAGE]

You'll like the Terminator EFI, I had it on my C10. It does pretty good at giving you a baseline on the self-learning aspect, but I never got around to getting it hooked up to a laptop to really dig into it.

I had it hooked to a large cap HEI, but I wish I would have done the small cap, computer controlled timing HEI. I bought the MSD Pro Billet one but never got it installed before the truck sold, so I still have that if you are interested. I already have a Melonized gear installed on it for roller cam compatibility and changed out the Chinese made control module for an AC Delco one. I read about that on the Holley forums and the control module that MSD uses seemed to be a big complaint and changing it to a GM/AC Delco unit was the recommended route.

Anyhow, good luck on the updates Lance!

[SSLance]

[QUOTE=GEARBOXGARAGE;69241I bought the MSD Pro Billet one but never got it installed before the truck sold, so I still have that if you are interested. I already have a Melonized gear installed on it for roller cam compatibility and changed out the Chinese made control module for an AC Delco one. I read about that on the Holley forums and the control module that MSD uses seemed to be a big complaint and changing it to a GM/AC Delco unit was the recommended route.

Anyhow, good luck on the updates Lance![/QUOTE]

Is that part # 8366 distributor? I may just be interested in it. I have the Pro Billet #85551 distributor which can also be controlled by ECU but I have to build my own harness for it. The 8366 is a plug n play deal.

[GEARBOXGARAGE]

"Is that part # 8366 distributor? I may just be interested in it. I have the Pro Billet #85551 distributor which can also be controlled by ECU but I have to build my own harness for it. The 8366 is a plug n play deal. "

Yes, Sir! I even have the Holley adapter to plug it into the Terminator harness! Everything is still brand new, never touched the engine. The thing I like about the MSD version is that it has an oil squirter to add extra lubrication to the timing gear.

Here's some links to the MSD/Holley items. I'll have to look up the part number on the AC Delco module I swapped out.

https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/distributors/chevrolet/ready_to_run_distributors/parts/8366

https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/distributors/distributor_accessories/parts/8561

https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/ignition_harnesses/parts/558-304

[SSLance]

Yes, Sir! I even have the Holley adapter to plug it into the Terminator harness! Everything is still brand new, never touched the engine. The thing I like about the MSD version is that it has an oil squirter to add extra lubrication to the timing gear.

Here's some links to the MSD/Holley items. I'll have to look up the part number on the AC Delco module I swapped out.

https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/distributors/chevrolet/ready_to_run_distributors/parts/8366

https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/distributors/distributor_accessories/parts/8561

https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/ignition_harnesses/parts/558-304


Shoot me a PM with a price, I very well may be interested in it all.

[GEARBOXGARAGE]

Shoot me a PM with a price, I very well may be interested in it all.

Will do!

[SSLance]

Have I ever mentioned before how much I hate headers on a street car?

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-fPB3J9s/0/4d82ae88/XL/20190504_103118-XL.jpg

I'm a bit out of practice, haven't had them off in 3 1/2 years and still took just two hours to get this far.

I was actually surprised at the condition of the header gaskets. These headers were not designed to use with raised port heads so we had to improvise to get them to work. I had some issues initially getting a gasket to seal up and work and this last set did pretty good. Only areas with signs of leakage were on # 6 and # 8 both due to bolts coming loose.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-nsZDDVh/0/85cd2ca3/XL/20190504_101830-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-ZS5JPgL/0/666355f1/XL/20190504_101805-XL.jpg

I bought a different set of gaskets this go around but now thinking I may go back with this part # again when it goes back together.

I'm not sure how this car was even running...by the look of the plugs...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Z6ffjWf/0/feeeb650/XL/20190504_101220-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-3SNJ8CR/0/a3012c3c/XL/20190504_101421-XL.jpg

3.5 years and about 5,000 very hard track miles on those plugs...the last part of that running very rich. It'll get a fresh set and fresh oil before it fires back up once again.

[mfain]

Lance,

NASA and ProAutoSports are both running a lot of events at Arizona Motorsports Park (AMP, near Luke AFB), in fact ProAuto is there this weekend. You should venture into road racing, even if it is HPDE for starters - you might not ever go back to AutoX. AMP is a lot like a big AutoX course anyway, and in Time Attack (or TT in NASA) you are running against the clock with the side benefit of getting to set up passes on cars that get in your way. A lot of fun! AMP has a 96 decibel sound limit, but I suspect you would pass. There is also a new track at Maricopa (down by Casa Grande) that now has members running on the new asphalt and is expected to open up for events soon. There are also the 4 courses at Wild Horse Pass - not quite as clean, but safe. Except for the real hot summer months, there are generally 2 events per month in the local area.

Pappy

[SSLance]

Oh I'm well aware Pappy!! I wanted to get a few more issues straightened up on the car before venturing back out to the road courses. In fact I paid for mondo at WHP last fall then couldn't make it so I have a credit waiting for me to use up.


My friends are up at Inde this weekend.

[SSLance]

Heres a video of me up at Inde last fall...

https://youtu.be/dx9w72wPx2M

[mfain]

Heres a video of me up at Inde last fall...

https://youtu.be/dx9w72wPx2M

Nice lap. Inde is absolutely my favorite track in the area - great for the ACR and a lot of fun in my old NASA Spec Focus. The couple of blind corners make it sporty in places.

[SSLance]

I had a blast up there, love that place as well. My hope is to be back up there this coming Labor Day again.

[mfain]

I had a blast up there, love that place as well. My hope is to be back up there this coming Labor Day again.

I should make Labor Day also, hopefully in my old project Corvette track car. I did buy a new car hauler (from a fellow racer who "upgraded" to a bigger one - LOL), so I won't have to fight putting the car on a "too small" open trailer - I had 3/4 inch from the rockers to the trailer fenders.

Pappy

68984

[SSLance]

Mystery solved...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-HwQtkKx/0/e7900ee5/XL/20190505_095700-XL.jpg

Sometimes I amaze myself at the things I do. If one temp switch is good, two must be better right? :D

[SSLance]

Starting to lay out the new parts, trying to decide wire routing options.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-rDf4HQs/0/266031f5/XL/20190509_093528-XL.jpg

Not TOO MANY wires to deal with... lol...

And just because it's beautiful

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-865tvzS/0/f0e45e48/XL/20190509_093608-XL.jpg

[SSLance]

Update pics...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-txXMGSb/0/47c2d835/XL/20190511_104347-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-CK9r8dr/0/835213a9/XL/20190511_104623-XL.jpg

Top of air horn on back side

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-KSNNQZJ/0/d2a22f7b/XL/20190511_110614-XL.jpg

Top of air horn front side

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-x2CxMvG/0/0e9854dd/XL/20190511_110643-XL.jpg

Showing air cleaner spacer that makes my housing meet the hood correctly on the Q-jet vs the new TBI.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-t7jWjT7/0/fa3487e9/XL/20190511_110752-XL.jpg

Somehow I'm going to need to shave about an inch off of the front of spacer and tapered back to a 1/8" or so off the back half to make the housing meet the hood just right with the new setup.

[mfain]

Very nice! Longer intake runners should be worth some hp.

Pappy

[89 RS]

Very nice, that should be a good setup for you. I look forward to hearing how you like the setup.

[silver63c10]

Awesome - you're going to absolutely love the EFI (ask me how I know, lol).

[SSLance]

Awesome - you're going to absolutely love the EFI (ask me how I know, lol).


I followed your install Dusty, that dash is awesome. Which distributor did you go with, the dual sync?

I may lean on you a bit once I start putting all the pieces together. There's not that many of us left doing these swaps on old SBCs...

[ScotI]

Update pics...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-txXMGSb/0/47c2d835/XL/20190511_104347-XL.jpg

Top of air horn on back side

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-KSNNQZJ/0/d2a22f7b/XL/20190511_110614-XL.jpg

Somehow I'm going to need to shave about an inch off of the front of spacer and tapered back to a 1/8" or so off the back half to make the housing meet the hood just right with the new setup..

I was looking @ the Edel ProFlo-4 for a sbc combo I have vs. all the parts swapping to go LS. I submitted a question asking which intake the kit was based off of to determine the height of the set-up. Your carb intake is a Perf RPM Q-jet correct? (I understand your new set-up above is diff vs the ProFlo-4)

[SSLance]

.

Your carb intake is a Perf RPM Q-jet correct? (I understand your new set-up above is diff vs the ProFlo-4)



My dual plane intake is a GMPP Dual Plane that came on the crate engine but I understand that Edlebrock manufactures these for GMPP and are the exact same as this one.

https://www.edelbrock.com/performer-vortec-intake-manifold-2116.html

https://www.edelbrock.com/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/10f519365b01716ddb90abc57de5a837/0/0/002116_v1_1.jpg

[GregWeld]

I don’t know what you’ve done to this thread but it’s become unreadable for me - the text is so tiny I can’t begin to see it....

[ScotI]

My dual plane intake is a GMPP Dual Plane that came on the crate engine but I understand that Edlebrock manufactures these for GMPP and are the exact same as this one.

https://www.edelbrock.com/performer-vortec-intake-manifold-2116.html
Thanks for the info.

[SSLance]

I don’t know what you’ve done to this thread but it’s become unreadable for me - the text is so tiny I can’t begin to see it....

I blame Jody!! Or perhaps the iPad you are using... :D

I didn't change anything but for some reason the pics are showing up huge now when viewed on my PC which may be making the text font smaller for you.

Thanks for coming by and helping out today Greg. It helps to have reassurance from someone that has been there, done that to know that I'm at least on the right track with this project.

You look great BTW. :D

[SSLance]

So, everything up top fits...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-8bTnfFd/0/bbe2bb5d/XL/20190523_160657-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-L36H2xh/0/6abf995b/XL/20190523_160705-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-khbMHKG/0/f9a0c504/XL/20190523_160715-XL.jpg

All the changes and new parts ended up playing pretty nice together. Next up, wiring...

I'm looking for a spark plug recommendation. Specs for the engine call for a AC Delco MR43LTS which I've used before but they are a pain around my headers. Recently I ran a NGK R5724-8 which was nice because it's shorter and easier to get around headers...but it is not available in resistor which I now need. Because one is a "marine" plug and the other is a "race" plug, I seem to be running into dead ends trying to find a shorty resistor plug. Heads are GM Fastburns. Any suggestions?

[mfain]

Looks great! Are you going to make Inde this weekend?

Pappy

[SSLance]

Looks great! Are you going to make Inde this weekend?

Pappy

I did not make it up there...did you? Looked like a great weekend, really bummed that I missed it.

[SSLance]

Last Sat was 3 weeks from the start so I missed that deadline...Lord willing and the creeks don't rise I should be close to ready to fire by the end of week 4.

Engine itself is pretty buttoned up, spacer mod worked great, headers and mid pipes are back on with new graphite gaskets that fit great, V Band clamps and O2 bung worked out great as well. We'll see if there are any leaks once it makes heat...

Up top got all of the vacuum lines arranged and hooked back up. I have a bit of an issue with the AC line and the new raised radiator hose that I didn't plan on, it'll be fine for now but this may be the straw that humps me into finally getting my 34 year old lines replaced properly...

New starter wire, new alt charge wire and new engine to battery ground wire are in place on engine side and all ECU harness leads are at the battery area. Next up is wiring up a relay center and making all electrical connections to relay center and battery posts. Also need to run a power wire to the coil and tach signal wire to the gauge module.

Then once that is all done, making some fuel lines and installing the tank...then we test everything and make heat...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-D8Gw5cg/0/4b0b2d38/XL/20190528_105130-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-qMMNjvm/0/76fb3a4e/XL/20190525_161552-XL.jpg

Gave these a new coat of Eastwood's high temp ceramic coating since they were out. last coat lasted over 3 years and still looked pretty good.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-pKWjZXM/0/d80969f6/XL/20190525_102952-XL.jpg

O2 port put the top of the sensor a little closer to floor than I would have preferred but it'll be okay. Someday I'll redo the whole exhaust properly and fix it then.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-h2WjMDS/0/60140cee/XL/20190527_130358-XL.jpg

That's it for now...y'all are up top date... :D

[rixtrix1]

Looks good, Lance!

[SSLance]

Got my relay box bracket fabbed and mounted along with my positive and negative distribution lugs.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-SZP9dSp/0/6a03b670/XL/20190530_123148-XL.jpg

It's behind the headlight in front of the core support right ahead of the battery. Pretty protected yet should be pretty easy to access as well if needed.

Pinned the wires to the fan relays to get my feet wet, went pretty well I think. Now onto the fun stuff...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-NBwVHgz/0/cfbc2636/XL/20190530_130923-XL.jpg

Hope this works... **fingers crossed**

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-96Pp7Rj/0/e480eb5c/XL/20190530_130934-XL.jpg

[rixtrix1]

Good idea to draw out a wiring diagram on all your new modifications. Will make any further diagnostic or maintenance exercises much easier. Put it in Barney's logbook will all the other info. When will this be running again?
How did you prep the headers before coating them again? Mine have been blasted, but for the amount of use they will get in the near future, I can't see spending the money on JetHot or a similar type of coating when I have million other things the car still needs.

[GregWeld]

Coming along nicely Lance!!!

Adrienne and I just got home an hour ago from our 6 day road trip.... and I have a PET scan for the cancer crap tomorrow — I’d love to be there for the start up and initial drive if you want me to be.....

[SSLance]

How did you prep the headers before coating them again? Mine have been blasted, but for the amount of use they will get in the near future, I can't see spending the money on JetHot or a similar type of coating when I have million other things the car still needs.

Thanks Ric... These headers were ceramic coated when new but had gotten beat up a bit. Last time I just cleaned them real well and scuffed with scotchbrite just like anything else I paint and sprayed the coating on. The first time they get hot is when the coating turns hard. This time took even less prep as they were mainly just dirty.

[SSLance]

Coming along nicely Lance!!!

Adrienne and I just got home an hour ago from our 6 day road trip.... and I have a PET scan for the cancer crap tomorrow — I’d love to be there for the start up and initial drive if you want me to be.....


Thanks Greg!!

I'm probably another week out at least before it makes heat. Still waiting on a few electrical parts to come in and still have to make fuel line and install tank.

That can be arranged though, I'd love to have you over when it happens.

[SSLance]

I'm pretty stoked with how this turned out, so glad I took this route. Basically we took a new OEM carb (non-baffled) tank and adapted it with parts from Vaporworx to hold a Gen 5 fuel module internally regulated to 58 psi with two corner pickups. The regulator lets us run a returnless system and since I have a non-vented gas cap we retained the stock pickup for a vent to the charcoal canister and the fuel level sender. My friend Mike Hitt had the pan cut and bent up at a local machine shop and then welded the pickup tabs and flange pan into the tank for me.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-DmvkzrN/0/b6580385/XL/20190603_122440-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-DJcR7S5/0/a83e1922/XL/20190603_133458-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-tcMRb2K/0/042015dd/XL/20190603_133517-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-s636L5J/0/47c86b02/XL/20190603_122522-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-JxqCd7N/0/9417872d/XL/20190603_122534-XL.jpg

Here are a list of most of the parts used along with pics and links.

SPECTRA PREMIUM GM306A Carb Tank
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=17455&jsn=4

ACDELCO MU1959 Gen 5 Camaro Fuel Module
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2291898&jsn=1


Fuel Pump Module Mounting Ring – 304 Stainless.
https://www.vaporworx.com/product/gm5ss/

https://www.vaporworx.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/GM5SS.jpg


Corner Pickup Kit
https://www.vaporworx.com/product/cptkit/

https://www.vaporworx.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/20180227_1517151-600x450.jpg


Fuel Pressure Regulator
https://www.vaporworx.com/product/g5fpr/

https://www.vaporworx.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/G5FPR.jpg


Fuel Module Outlet Fitting 3/8″ to AN6 Male
https://www.vaporworx.com/product/fpofgmqcan6/

https://www.vaporworx.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/AN6-F.O.A-Black-600x511.jpg

This should give Barney a Fifth Gen Camaro fuel delivery system with OEM reliability and no fuel starve issues.

One more piece of the puzzle is in place, getting pretty close to finishing this project up.

[SSLance]

So I spent some time in the shop as well today, finally finished up all the wiring. I'm not fast at it, nor the most neat and tidy at it, but I'm pretty sure the connections are all good and it all should work as designed when I llight it off. **Fingers Crossed** I'm pretty happy with how the relay\fuse box worked out and where everything landed.

Here are the all new battery connections. The power to the ECU and engine harness are on the side post mounts, everything else is now powered and grounded through the top posts.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-47dTnPx/0/70c18518/XL/20190608_165854-XL.jpg

I ran new 2 ga wire to the starter and 6 ga wire to the Alt and engine ground. It's what I had laying around and I needed to extend them anyway to move them to the top posts. Also ran 10 ga from there to the positive and negative distribution blocks on front side of core support and to the body bolt on the fender.

Looking down behind the headlight in front of core support, you can see the relay\fuse box and the Positive distribution block on the radiator duct.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-kn8Gzn7/0/0ee9b7d8/XL/20190608_165912-XL.jpg

Better look at the ground block.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-QJb7DC6/0/2d08f99a/XL/20190608_165922-XL.jpg

I struggled with making the leads short enough to be tidy but leaving them long enough to pull the box up out of the hole should I ever need to service anything on it. As it ended up I can just get it up on top of the cowl without having to unhook any wires. Once I'm sure everything works I'll tie some looms up to make sure they stay put.

View up at the bottom of the box...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Q3nDk8b/0/02ea9eab/XL/20190608_152954-XL.jpg

This was taken before I had the box bolted down and the main leads finished.

I still have to do a bit of work under the dash, the wire from coil needs to be hooked to gauge module for the tach and the wires to fan switch are going to get shortened and cleaned up. Other than that though, I'm DONE with wires...

Just need to make up four fuel line connections, run the fuel line and filter...and put the tank back in and I'll be ready to fire it off for the first time. Unfortunately an impromptu trip out of town early next week will delay this until after we return. Glad I got time to get the wiring down before we left though.

[sls1025]

Looks great Lance!

[hackster]

That tank turned out awesome. Nice work man.

Keep at it, be back on track in no time.

Quick Question for you. That positive bulkhead on the firewall, will there be a cover over that at all or is it exposed like that all of the time?

Sean

[waynieZ]

Nice job Lance, it looks good!

[SSLance]

Quick Question for you. That positive bulkhead on the firewall, will there be a cover over that at all or is it exposed like that all of the time?

Sean

Thanks Sean...

Yeah, I'll figure out some way to cap the positive block off. Wish I would have found this one first now...

https://www.amazon.com/Pair-Terminal-Distribution-BUSBARS-Terminals/dp/B07C4W7YKG/ref=pd_bxgy_263_img_3/132-7003476-7506042?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07C4W7YKG&pd_rd_r=22635aca-8bc7-11e9-b64c-d73dded6ffc7&pd_rd_w=jrzLy&pd_rd_wg=EffIv&pf_rd_p=a2006322-0bc0-4db9-a08e-d168c18ce6f0&pf_rd_r=1547V3EWYP3ZNM4K2K3B&psc=1&refRID=1547V3EWYP3ZNM4K2K3B

[ScotI]

Thanks Sean...

Yeah, I'll figure out some way to cap the positive block off. Wish I would have found this one first now...

https://www.amazon.com/Pair-Terminal-Distribution-BUSBARS-Terminals/dp/B07C4W7YKG/ref=pd_bxgy_263_img_3/132-7003476-7506042?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07C4W7YKG&pd_rd_r=22635aca-8bc7-11e9-b64c-d73dded6ffc7&pd_rd_w=jrzLy&pd_rd_wg=EffIv&pf_rd_p=a2006322-0bc0-4db9-a08e-d168c18ce6f0&pf_rd_r=1547V3EWYP3ZNM4K2K3B&psc=1&refRID=1547V3EWYP3ZNM4K2K3B

That is nice. Filing that one away in the old think-tank!

[z28cp]

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Q3nDk8b/0/02ea9eab/XL/20190608_152954-XL.jpg

Lance, which wire loom product are you using on the wires?

Looks like a good clean install. Light it up! :popcorn2:

[SSLance]

Lance, which wire loom product are you using on the wires?

Looks like a good clean install. Light it up! :popcorn2:

Thanks!

Techflex 3/8" Split F6 Braided... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MRLJ93K?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share


It's pretty nice to work with, expandable and tough.Way better than the old plastic loom stuff...

[SSLance]

I'm not going to sugar coat it...had a couple of pretty frustrating days in the shop.

I finished up putting the hose ends on the lines Friday and actually got pretty good at it by the end.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-km8ccdt/0/fcbb10a9/X3/58951-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-2P69bF3/0/8ea7a6dc/X3/58945-X3.jpg

This "third hand" I picked up really helped with the process

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-cbP8CPM/0/7ade32ad/X3/58949-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-24KSR7b/0/409e8d9e/XL/20190621_153855-XL.jpg


Wish putting the tank in went as smooth. My guess is the new replacement tank is a smidge larger than the OEM tank and I struggled getting the old straps around the tank and installed. What should have taken about 15 minutes took a couple hours. Then I had to run the fuel line and my desire to make it as fit and finish as OEM led to more frustration. Between being larger diameter and stiff...I had a fight on my hands, but I got it done. I quit for the day and decided to wait until I was fresh Sunday morning to fire up the pump and test for leaks. Good thing I did...

Had the wife in the car to turn the key while I had the throttle body end of the line pointed toward a container so I could rinse the lines out before connecting to the throttle body. I had blown the lines and filter out but didn't want any trash from the pump getting into the injectors. She turned the key...nothing...

Sent her on her way and I started to chase down why. I'll save you from the horrid details but just know it wasn't until the fuel pump was back out on the bench (yes I had to drop the tank again to get it out), had jumper cables on the pins and a battery charger set at 20 amps powering them...that it finally decided to come to life. I then slowly reinstalled everything while testing the pump operation each step of the way. Once pump was back in the tank and tank raised up to installed location and all connections made, I hot wired the pump at the relay and I had fuel coming out the throttle body end of the line...and out from under the car... Seems I should have put a wrench on the inline filter housing itself to make sure the end cap of it was snugged down. Once that mess was cleaned up and line connected to throttle body again, I tested it again and NONE of my hose ends leaked... Woo Hoo! I cleaned up, aired the shop out and went in the house for a shower and a rest while the battery charged back up.

I just now returned in from the shop where I sat down in the driver seat and configured the handheld with my engine specs and uploaded the file to the ECU. I then did the TPS autoset and verified that all sensors are operational. The final screen said we are now ready to start the engine!!!

Well, kinda... I still have to fill cooling system and tighten the belts... THEN we'll be ready to fire it off.

I guess if it was easy, everyone would be doing it right? :D

[SSLance]

The day still didn't go exactly as planned...but it made heat!

a2EvHNZWulQ

[Tinker]

The day still didn't go exactly as planned...but it made heat!


Congrats Lance. Sometimes it's not how you get there, just as long as you get there.

[SSLance]

Congrats Lance. Sometimes it's not how you get there, just as long as you get there.

Thanks Chris...

This past week has tested me but today it firing on the first turn of the key made up for a lot of it.

After working out what I thought were all of the demons Sat and Sun, I got everything ready today and nervously hit the key to see what happens...and NOTHING happened... :bang:

Back up in the air... Apparently at some point I knocked the switch wire off the starter tab. Wrestled my hands back in behind the header and got it reattached...then put car back down on ground again.

That's pretty much how my whole week went...

[SSLance]

So I've had some time to play with it a bit now. Still not drivable as a lot of things still loose or off car but it starts, idles, timing is pretty close, low and high speed fans kick on and off like they are supposed too and all gauges seem to work properly. I am amazed at how easily it started the very first time and continues to start at the first hit of the key.

I need to get my laptop configured to hook to ECU to change some things to really dial the timing in but I figure it would be better to just spend the day buttoning up the rest of the car. Nothing new, unknown or untested left, just putting old parts back on the car.

Pretty happy to be at this stage now, there were times last week I wondered if it really was going to work.

[SSLance]

So our friend and fellow board member Andrew spent about 2 hours today dialed into my laptop hooked to the car from his house and really got the idle tune dialed in perfect. It was fun to watch and learn...and see the results from the changes in real time. I'm not sure if it's the cam, the worked over Fastburn heads, or just the whole complete package...but this combo really seems like a great match for the ECU and throttle body. It seemed pretty simple for Andrew to dial it in initially.

We did kind of struggle to get the idle down (which I always fought with the Q-jet as well). Even with throttle blades completely closed and IAC at 0, it still idled around 800 rpm. We even capped off the 3 vacuum lines I had hooked to TBI to see if there was a leak on one of them with little effect. I finally put a wrench on the 4 bolts holding it to manifold and tightened them 1/8-1/4 turn each and that bumped the IAC up to about 4. Backing the idle timing down to 12 degrees and a few other small changes got it to idle about 760 or so with IAC around 4 and we left it there. I need to get the air cleaner back on to see how that affects it if any. The heater hose valve was in the way of it and it was too freaking hot to mess with today.

Speaking of heat, it idled in a 100 degree garage for over an hour and never got over 190 degrees. The low and high speed fans work perfectly exactly how they are programmed in the ECU. No leaks, runs, drips or errors that I can see either.

Time to get the wheels back on, gas tank bolted in, fenders back on and tidy up the loose ends so I can test drive it on the street. I think Andrew was disappointed when we were done with idle tune and he asked me if it was ready to drive on the street. :D

[carbuff]

Excellent! Now get that thing on the road and enjoy the fruits of your labor. :)

[camcojb]

So our friend and fellow board member Andrew spent about 2 hours today dialed into my laptop hooked to the car from his house and really got the idle tune dialed in perfect. It was fun to watch and learn...and see the results from the changes in real time. I'm not sure if it's the cam, the worked over Fastburn heads, or just the whole complete package...but this combo really seems like a great match for the ECU and throttle body. It seemed pretty simple for Andrew to dial it in initially.

We did kind of struggle to get the idle down (which I always fought with the Q-jet as well). Even with throttle blades completely closed and IAC at 0, it still idled around 800 rpm. We even capped off the 3 vacuum lines I had hooked to TBI to see if there was a leak on one of them with little effect. I finally put a wrench on the 4 bolts holding it to manifold and tightened them 1/8-1/4 turn each and that bumped the IAC up to about 4. Backing the idle timing down to 12 degrees and a few other small changes got it to idle about 760 or so with IAC around 4 and we left it there. I need to get the air cleaner back on to see how that affects it if any. The heater hose valve was in the way of it and it was too freaking hot to mess with today.

Speaking of heat, it idled in a 100 degree garage for over an hour and never got over 190 degrees. The low and high speed fans work perfectly exactly how they are programmed in the ECU. No leaks, runs, drips or errors that I can see either.

Time to get the wheels back on, gas tank bolted in, fenders back on and tidy up the loose ends so I can test drive it on the street. I think Andrew was disappointed when we were done with idle tune and he asked me if it was ready to drive on the street. :D
You gotta watch out for that Andrew guy... :lol:

[SSLance]

You gotta watch out for that Andrew guy... :lol:

So I'm explaining to the wife what was going on in the garage yesterday.

"Yes honey, a guy I've never met in person before is linked into my laptop over the internet and is making tuning adjustments on the computer in my car while talking to me over the phone..."

Her: "Why is he doing that?" "And why are you letting him do that?"

"It's just a guy thing honey..." :D

Much like a couple weekends ago when 25 some guys that have BS'd together on the internet for years finally meet face to face...it's like we've all known each other for years and it doesn't seem at all like we've just met for the first time.

Let's hope in a couple hours this thing rolls out of the shop under it's own power for the first time in almost 2 months. It's 7 am here and I've already had my morning walk, breakfast, am dressed and in the shop ready to turn wrenches...

[Panteracer]

Lance,
Great to hear you are getting things dial in
It was also good to finally meet you and talk

You crack me up with getting the idle down to 760
My buddy's Pantera and mine have the idle set at 1300 rpm
and we spin them to 7500 rpm and still bounce the limiter sometimes
Love those 830 Nascar Holleys:)

Bob

[SSLance]

Holey Cow! So by noon or so I had the car all back in one piece, that pretty much went as planned. I then drove it up and put some fuel in it and made about a 2 mile circle around on city streets to get back home again. Right away driveability was good. Ever now and then it would stumble a bit but never really misfire or anything like that and I could tell it was getting better all the time. Once back I sent the Global Configuration file with the learn tables in it to Andrew and about 10 minutes later he sent me an adjusted file back. I uploaded...then went for a drive again. This time he wanted me to make a couple WOT blasts from 2000 - 6000 RPM which I did.

Also grabbed a couple video clips with my phone during this run.

HOUraryE8ZQ

Keep in mind, ambient temp is about 105 and the Manifold air temp was close to 130... On way back I rolled the windows up and turned the air on. Car's behavior didn't change one bit, still rock solid. Fans kicked on when they were supposed to and coolant temp stayed right where it is supposed too, even idling at a stoplight at 750 RPM with AC on max. THIS is what I wanted and why I did this swap.

Once back I sent the file to Andrew again and told him a few things I noticed it doing. 10 minutes later, new tune uploaded and quick jaunt just around the house close by but did get a couple of spirited WOT blasts in and man...did he wake it up!! It's back to as good as it EVER was at WOT with the Q jet (possibly better) and with non-of the side effects. I ran short on time and had to quit but I sent the file to Andrew one more time, he made a few more slight tweaks and sent it back for my next go around.

I can't wait to see how it is now.

Parked it in the garage raised the hood, went out there after my shower and no fuel smell either...another reason why I did this swap!!

Here is how it looks now...not much different really. But trust me...it's WAY different now.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Z295XZs/0/700f8a3a/XL/20190626_143213-XL.jpg

[ScotI]

So our friend and fellow board member Andrew spent about 2 hours today dialed into my laptop hooked to the car from his house and really got the idle tune dialed in perfect. It was fun to watch and learn...and see the results from the changes in real time. I'm not sure if it's the cam, the worked over Fastburn heads, or just the whole complete package...but this combo really seems like a great match for the ECU and throttle body. It seemed pretty simple for Andrew to dial it in initially.

We did kind of struggle to get the idle down (which I always fought with the Q-jet as well). Even with throttle blades completely closed and IAC at 0, it still idled around 800 rpm. We even capped off the 3 vacuum lines I had hooked to TBI to see if there was a leak on one of them with little effect. I finally put a wrench on the 4 bolts holding it to manifold and tightened them 1/8-1/4 turn each and that bumped the IAC up to about 4. Backing the idle timing down to 12 degrees and a few other small changes got it to idle about 760 or so with IAC around 4 and we left it there. I need to get the air cleaner back on to see how that affects it if any. The heater hose valve was in the way of it and it was too freaking hot to mess with today.

Speaking of heat, it idled in a 100 degree garage for over an hour and never got over 190 degrees. The low and high speed fans work perfectly exactly how they are programmed in the ECU. No leaks, runs, drips or errors that I can see either. Holey Cow! So by noon or so I had the car all back in one piece, that pretty much went as planned. I then drove it up and put some fuel in it and made about a 2 mile circle around on city streets to get back home again. Right away driveability was good. Ever now and then it would stumble a bit but never really misfire or anything like that and I could tell it was getting better all the time. Once back I sent the Global Configuration file with the learn tables in it to Andrew and about 10 minutes later he sent me an adjusted file back. I uploaded...then went for a drive again. This time he wanted me to make a couple WOT blasts from 2000 - 6000 RPM which I did.

Keep in mind, ambient temp is about 105 and the Manifold air temp was close to 130... On way back I rolled the windows up and turned the air on. Car's behavior didn't change one bit, still rock solid. Fans kicked on when they were supposed to and coolant temp stayed right where it is supposed too, even idling at a stoplight at 750 RPM with AC on max. THIS is what I wanted and why I did this swap.

Once back I sent the file to Andrew again and told him a few things I noticed it doing. 10 minutes later, new tune uploaded and quick jaunt just around the house close by but did get a couple of spirited WOT blasts in and man...did he wake it up!! It's back to as good as it EVER was at WOT with the Q jet (possibly better) and with non-of the side effects. I ran short on time and had to quit but I sent the file to Andrew one more time, he made a few more slight tweaks and sent it back for my next go around.

I can't wait to see how it is now.

Parked it in the garage raised the hood, went out there after my shower and no fuel smell either...another reason why I did this swap!!

Here is how it looks now...not much different really. But trust me...it's WAY different now.

I've been following this w/much interest & glad to review the latest successful results.

That being said, with Andrew assisting, is this only to speed up the learning curve? Or should this be a 'Must-Do' step w/the process? I know these systems are advertised as "Self Leaning" but we know that's a main/strong selling point to the DIY guy. While this type & similar set-ups can/do self learn, do they need a tuners ability to get things near/at optimum if you want it sooner rather than later?

And maybe Andrew (or someone else that has similar experience) can answer this....If you opt for no tuner & let the units ECU do it's thing, how long before it could/would reach the same tune?

[SSLance]

I've been following this w/much interest & glad to review the latest successful results.

That being said, with Andrew assisting, is this only to speed up the learning curve? Or should this be a 'Must-Do' step w/the process? I know these systems are advertised as "Self Leaning" but we know that's a main/strong selling point to the DIY guy. While this type & similar set-ups can/do self learn, do they need a tuners ability to get things near/at optimum if you want it sooner rather than later?

And maybe Andrew (or someone else that has similar experience) can answer this....If you opt for no tuner & let the units ECU do it's thing, how long before it could/would reach the same tune?

With my limited experience with this (like a few days worth) I believe this is a pretty accurate description of how the self learn process works.

So when you put your initial inputs in (size of engine, #@ cylinders, cam specs etc) the software picks a predetermined tune and puts it on ECU for you. This tune gives targeted ignition timing, AFRs, etc for a wide range of parameters and tells the ECU to shoot for this. You then go drive the car and the self learn portion corrects over those parameters and the percentages that the ECU has to use to correct each parameter are saved in the learn tables. Eventually the learn table is full (each scenario has been reached and corrected for) and you can either choose to let the software transfer the learn tables to the tune or a tuner can do that manually.

Then if you are happy you can disable the learn function and leave it like it is as a permanent tune or let it continue to learn and populate the learn tables with the corrections that it makes.

What tuners do is take the GCF and look at the learn tables and make corrections to the tune based off what they see. It's a much faster and more accurate way to dial the tune into what that particular engine wants and needs.

Andrew spent about an hour logged into my laptop, working with the Holley EFI software while my car was idling here in the shop to dial in the idle tune. He could tell just by watching the sensors what the engine wanted and made the changes in real time then watched again. This is the first step, getting the idle tune right...and also the hardest.

Once the idle tune was spot on, I drove it around...and sent him the GCF. He fiddled with it and sent it back and I uploaded the changed file and drove it again. Rinse and repeat. Each time it got better and better. It's just a much faster more accurate way to get the tune dialed in than the self learn process.

BTW, this is why I went with the terminator and not the Sniper...for easy use of the Holley EFI software to dial the tune in.

The software is FAST, it loads right away on my old laptop with zero issues and the GCFs are like 80 kbs big...so they are super quick and easy to save and email. That whole process is super quick.

Hope that helps...

[SSLance]

This video will bore some of you, but others may find it of interest. I made a quick jaunt around the block starting with a cold start, some open loop stop n go, then some closed loop, spirited stop n go driving finishing with a look at the Holley EFI gauges on my laptop in the passenger seat.

As you'll see it is driving VERY nicely. The one thing we are still working on a bit is a shudder when lugging between 1500-2000 RPM. It actually got better halfway thru this drive which tells me Andrew will be able to see how the ECU corrected for it and fix it permanently. The rest is spot on I think...we'll see what he says though.

uvxWf3mpB6M

Also, this is the first time it ever took that long to start cold...I think I didn't let the fuel pump prime long enough before trying to start. Still WAY better than a pump and cranking the Q Jet took. :D

[ScotI]

With my limited experience with this (like a few days worth) I believe this is a pretty accurate description of how the self learn process works.

So when you put your initial inputs in (size of engine, #@ cylinders, cam specs etc) the software picks a predetermined tune and puts it on ECU for you. This tune gives targeted ignition timing, AFRs, etc for a wide range of parameters and tells the ECU to shoot for this. You then go drive the car and the self learn portion corrects over those parameters and the percentages that the ECU has to use to correct each parameter are saved in the learn tables. Eventually the learn table is full (each scenario has been reached and corrected for) and you can either choose to let the software transfer the learn tables to the tune or a tuner can do that manually.

Then if you are happy you can disable the learn function and leave it like it is as a permanent tune or let it continue to learn and populate the learn tables with the corrections that it makes.

What tuners do is take the GCF and look at the learn tables and make corrections to the tune based off what they see. It's a much faster and more accurate way to dial the tune into what that particular engine wants and needs.

Andrew spent about an hour logged into my laptop, working with the Holley EFI software while my car was idling here in the shop to dial in the idle tune. He could tell just by watching the sensors what the engine wanted and made the changes in real time then watched again. This is the first step, getting the idle tune right...and also the hardest.

Once the idle tune was spot on, I drove it around...and sent him the GCF. He fiddled with it and sent it back and I uploaded the changed file and drove it again. Rinse and repeat. Each time it got better and better. It's just a much faster more accurate way to get the tune dialed in than the self learn process.

BTW, this is why I went with the terminator and not the Sniper...for easy use of the Holley EFI software to dial the tune in.

The software is FAST, it loads right away on my old laptop with zero issues and the GCFs are like 80 kbs big...so they are super quick and easy to save and email. That whole process is super quick.

Hope that helps...
This was my assumption so it didn't hurt to ask.

I'm torn between a Holley set-up w/the remote ECU or the EDL Pro-Flo4 as it would work w/heads I have. My gut says the Holley hardware probably has much greater after purchase technical support if one needs tuning help. That goes along way when comparing aftermarket EFI choices. But, if the self-learn/tuning actually works, The ProFlo4 has the advantage in my case because of the pkg cost & I likely wouldn't have found the help you did to speed your process.

Thanks for the assessment. looking forward to your dyno testing data & track-time impressions/comparison. Those videos help get a good feel for the initial driving experiences!

[ScotI]

Also..... Is that still just the HT383 crate cam installed?
Sounds like there's more cam than my L31 Vortec equipped truck.

[SSLance]

No, we had a custom cam ground for it the same time we put the Fastburn heads on 3 years ago.

It's still pretty mild though, pulls 21" of vacuum at idle.

[ScotI]

No, we had a custom cam ground for it the same time we put the Fastburn heads on 3 years ago.

It's still pretty mild though, pulls 21" of vacuum at idle.

Ok. I've been reading/following since the thread started & went back through recently looking to see what engine changes were made along the way. I knew the heads were different & the carb updated but I didn't recall the cam change. Sounds nice. Not too much but you definitely know its there. Curious on the specs w/that quality of vacuum so I'll keep reviewing the thread.

[SSLance]

Comp Custom cam specs are as follows:
3014 lobe on a 110 intake center line
3015 lobe on a 118 exhaust center line

4 degrees advancement in the cam and timing chain in the “straight up” position.

Lobe specs are below – lift with 1.5 rocker.
Lobe - Dur - @.050 - .200 - lift -- 106 -- 110 -- 1.5 Rocker
3014 – 268 – 218 – 143 -- .356 -- .058 -- .047 -- .534
3015 -- 274 – 224 – 149 -- .358 -- .068 -- .055 -- .537

[sls1025]

Great work Lance!

[SSLance]

So after a quick trip out of town for a week or so, I've been driving this thing around a bit more, tweaking on the tune and basically just enjoying it. For a lot of people it would be great just like it is. It's super responsive, starts idles and drives like a new car and makes a lot more power in the upper RPM range than before. But I'm not like most people and have been working with Andrew to clean up a few small areas of concern.

One is a low voltage symptom that happens with all the high draw accessories are on at the same time and the idle is slow. Andrew came up with the idea of adding a low voltage idle ramp table and it worked like a champ.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-fKZKbCp/0/bd8dd576/XL/61406-XL.jpg

Basically the Alternator is underdriven and at the base 750 RPM idle it won't produce enough amps to keep the volts up above the minimum threshold of 12.0v the Holley ECU needs. So as the volts start to drop, the ECU starts to add idle RPM to compensate.

I've driven it around twice now on super hot days with the AC blower cranked and it works pretty good as long as I remember to push the clutch in before the trans drags the engine down below the threshold RPM when pulling up to a stoplight. It's pretty fun to watch it work.

The other thing we are working on is a chug at lower RPM high load scenario like 1500 RPM in 6th gear on the highway. It's not bad and in reality was always like this (even worse) with the carb but he thinks we can clean it up even more. I learned how to take and send datalogs and sent him several couple of days ago so he can see exactly what is going on during the chug.

Other than that...Barney finally got some Arizona Copper Tags yesterday so he's officially an Arizonian now...

[hackster]

Bad ass dude!!!

This, this right here is the difference between 99% of the project cars out there and the ones that are really tuned and work properly.

Nice work Lance.

Sean

[ScotI]

So after a quick trip out of town for a week or so, I've been driving this thing around a bit more, tweaking on the tune and basically just enjoying it. For a lot of people it would be great just like it is. It's super responsive, starts idles and drives like a new car and makes a lot more power in the upper RPM range than before. But I'm not like most people and have been working with Andrew to clean up a few small areas of concern.

One is a low voltage symptom that happens with all the high draw accessories are on at the same time and the idle is slow. Andrew came up with the idea of adding a low voltage idle ramp table and it worked like a champ.

Basically the Alternator is underdriven and at the base 750 RPM idle it won't produce enough amps to keep the volts up above the minimum threshold of 12.0v the Holley ECU needs. So as the volts start to drop, the ECU starts to add idle RPM to compensate.

I've driven it around twice now on super hot days with the AC blower cranked and it works pretty good as long as I remember to push the clutch in before the trans drags the engine down below the threshold RPM when pulling up to a stoplight. It's pretty fun to watch it work.

The other thing we are working on is a chug at lower RPM high load scenario like 1500 RPM in 6th gear on the highway. It's not bad and in reality was always like this (even worse) with the carb but he thinks we can clean it up even more. I learned how to take and send datalogs and sent him several couple of days ago so he can see exactly what is going on during the chug.

Other than that...Barney finally got some Arizona Copper Tags yesterday so he's officially an Arizonian now...

So radiator cooling fans, fuel pump, A/C blower motor @ high speed, ECU/IGN & tunes as power draws @ idle?
What alternator are you using?

[SSLance]

So radiator cooling fans, fuel pump, A/C blower motor @ high speed, ECU/IGN & tunes as power draws @ idle?
What alternator are you using?


I have a 140 amp CS style alternator but with underdrive pulleys. The blower motor is what puts it over the edge, itll drop the voltage by about 1v when turned on high (the only position the switch works on).

There are several areas that could be used to address my issue but pressing a couple keyboard buttons was the easiest.

Adding a couple hundred RPMs puts the voltage right up where it needs to be on full draw.

[SSLance]

Bad ass dude!!!

This, this right here is the difference between 99% of the project cars out there and the ones that are really tuned and work properly.

Nice work Lance.

Sean


Thanks Sean, its by no means at your build level but I'm trying. I do love it when a detailed plan works out though, I worked on this plan for a long time...

[ScotI]

Please keep the FI updates coming as the info is appreciated. Curious of the impact it will have on your fuel use vs the carb. When is your next dyno session?

[SSLance]

Please keep the FI updates coming as the info is appreciated. Curious of the impact it will have on your fuel use vs the carb. When is your next dyno session?

I'll be sure to share what I find as I go along. At this point I really don't plan on taking it to a dyno...I don't need to see a number and I'm fairly certain we are getting the majority of what we can out of this engine like it is. I'd rather be safe with it than tune for maximum power at WOT and take the chance of leaning it out and hurting it. It's got plenty of power for what I need it to do.

I'm about a half tank into it so far with a good mixture of highway and street stop n go driving. I want to run it down pretty low before filling so I can test the corner pickups to see if and or when it starts to fuel starve...so it may bea bit still before I get to check the mileage.

[SSLance]

The transformation back to comfortable street car continues. Just pulled the 600# rear springs and put the 250# springs back in. Iinitial test drive shows my butt and back greatly appreciate the change.

Next on the list is a Trutrac to replace the locker.

These changes should not hamper the on course handling much at all since they were merely bandaids tir the lifting the inside rear tire issue that the new front swaybar fixed permanently

[rixtrix1]

Sounds like it's working out quite well!

[SSLance]

I have about 350 street miles now on the EFI setup. Andrew and I (mostly Andrew ;) ) have been tweaking away on the tune and I think we are just about done with it. After working on the fuel table trying to clean up a few small problem spots, we finally started adding timing and that woke things right up. Turns out this Fastburn 383 likes more timing in the mid RPM range, a little bit more timing upper RPM WOT and a little less timing at idle. Who knew? :headscratch:

We now have it where it'll lug smoothly at 1200 RPM in 6th gear on the highway, pulls like a freight train everywhere else when asked and runs like a 5th Gen Camaro under normal everyday driving. Still haven't decided if I'll ever put it on a chassis dyno or not, only real reason would be to see what the torque and horsepower curves look like and where the peaks are. My butt dyno says the HP peak is a lot higher than the 5400 RPM it was before with the dual plane intake and Quadrajet though. I raised the rev limiter to 6400 from 6000 because I kept hitting it regularly with car still pulling hard. I hardly ever hit it before as I was shifting before it got there.

Couple other things I've cleaned up to make it more street friendly. I put a new blower fan relay in which not only lets the fan work at all 4 speeds now, but also doesn't kill the charging system when the fan is on high.

Took the 600# rear springs out and put 250# springs in and added a UMI Autocross rear sway bar back in. Both are a big improvement for street driving both in comfort and in feel, hopefully it'll still corner good once I get it on track again.

The brand new RE71s I picked up are now installed as well, way over due for them. Hopefully the new rear setup provides more rear forward bite grip and I won't kill these nearly as fast as the last set.

I was going to do a track day at Inde Motorsports Ranch Labor Day weekend as my first track test of all the new stuff, but a family deal came up so I'll have to miss that. Love track days and love that track but at the same time kind of happy that I'll have an autocross event or two to test all the new stuff out before thrashing the car on a big track once again.

Meanwhile, I'm just driving the car every chance I get. First tank of gas netted 11.5 MPG, it'll be interesting to see how the next tank ends up shortly. I'm hammering it pretty hard doing the EFI tuning so I expect it'll get better with more just regular driving. Not really the most important goal but a nice side effect if I can save a bit of fuel along the way.

[camcojb]

Awesome!! :thumbsup:

[SSLance]

I think I have my favorite two dash setups done now, thought I'd share them. I have about 350 miles on it now and with Andrew's help really have the tune dialed in nicely. I use the first dash most of the time just to watch and learn mostly, the second dash in the video helps me pay attention to load and AFRs better with the sweeps. Car idles and runs fantastic in every condition I've thrown at it so far. Got 11.7 MPG out of the first tank of fuel and 12.5 MPG out of the 2nd. I'm thinking it will get close to 20 MPG on a long highway trip and at least 15 MPG regular in town driving.

xbWcSICesWQ

[SSLance]

I don't normally put all four of my runs together in one video after an event but I thought some of you might enjoy watching me learn how to drive Digital Barney all over once again.

In the first couple of runs you can hear me barking the tires every time I get back onto the gas. The off idle throttle response of the new Holley EFI took some getting used too for sure. I also have a new rear spring and sway bar setup in the car which took some tweaking and getting used to as well. By the 4th run I was getting better at not breaking the tires loose on throttle and had the rear shocks a bit more dialed in to the new setup, but there is still work to do on the car (and the driver) for sure.

ikTalbzOXPg

This was from the sidelines on my 3rd run I believe. The commentary from the announcer cracked me up...

hbY_Z15Awbw

It was good to knock 5 months worth of rust off the driver, it was good to see all the hard work over the summer on the car didn't have any hiccups, and we took first place in CAM T in the first event of the fall series. I'll need to step it up though as some of the others in class are nipping at my heels...

[ScotI]

That is freakin' sweet. Unfortunately, it really makes a G-body lover want to swap in a 3rd pedal more than they already might want to....
:stirthepot:

[TimeWarpF100]

Still following your YouTube!~ Looks like so much fun.

[SSLance]

That is freakin' sweet. Unfortunately, it really makes a G-body lover want to swap in a 3rd pedal more than they already might want to....
:stirthepot:

Thanks.... And just do IT!!! :D


Still following your YouTube!~ Looks like so much fun.

Thanks man! Where are you at with the F100 these days?

[TimeWarpF100]

Thanks.... And just do IT!!! :D




Thanks man! Where are you at with the F100 these days?

It's been down for 6 months after I sold the 427.

Bought a '18 F150 5.0 10spd at auction to use for donor but truck had minor damage so fixed it put on 5k mi in 3 months then sold it.

I had my last 3 FE engines at machine shop and they ruined all 3 blocks.
Back to square one.

Last week picked up a one of 5 Ford Raptor 450/510 crate engines so plan is to install it in the '66 F100 with a 10 spd auto using stock FoMoCo PCM.

They will make 490 HP @ tire with just a tune so should be fun with the 10 spd and the 3.50 rear gear.

Wish I only had one project but have 6 major projects at the moment and just a one man band. (with old age kicking in)

[SSLance]

Little update on the EFI project.

I've now had the car running for about 3 months and I've put 525 miles on it including a SCCA Autocross event 2 weeks ago. I've uploaded about 17 or so new tunes to the ECU and I'm fairly certain this last one is close to as good as it is going to get. I'm SUPER happy with the found mid range power that came with it. I just filled the tank and figured 13.06 MPG on a tank that not only included many WOT Highway On Ramp blasts while tuning but also 4 long Autocross runs and very little highway cruising time. On the way to get gas today, I made several 1st gear launches and hard pulls with less than 4 gallons in the tank and still ZERO fuel starve issues. I'm a very happy camper so far, so happy I made the swap to EFI.

Here's a picture of Barney doing Street Car things...

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-h3WG3QV/0/XL/i-h3WG3QV-XL.jpg

And here are a couple of pulls I made on the way home. Sorry about the shaky cell phone video but it's all I had...

p-PAhv32ugI

I made some more adjustments to the rear suspension, lowered the ride height and stiffened the sway bar. Hope to get a chance to test some slalom moves out in a parking lot somewhere before our next race Oct 13 but if not, I'll dial it in more then. I think I'm moving the right direction though. I KNOW forward grip is better with this setup than with the 600# rear springs.

[SSLance]

Did some Hard Parking last night...

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xHZ54NX/0/XL/i-xHZ54NX-XL.jpg

[SSLance]

AZ Region SCCA Solo put on an awesome event yesterday with one of the best courses I've run on in a while. A Nationals quality course 30 minutes from home, that's hard to beat. I was a bit apprehensive walking the course as it was mostly large sweepers and straights and I've been tweaking my rear suspension setup for slaloms, not sweepers. Thankfully though the changes were good and the car handled pretty well...well enough in fact to finish 13th in Pax out of 130 drivers and 18th in raw time. Given the caliber of drivers and cars in this Region, I'm very happy with that. The latest tune in the Holley EFI really woke it up in the mid range and I can say now with certainty it makes more power everywhere than the carb and dual plane intake setup ever did. I also ran the fuel tank down to about a 1/4 tank and never once did it starve for fuel, Carl Cassonova's Vaporworx setup just plain worx!

We even had a little fun in the Time Only runs swapping keys, I handed Barney's keys over to Mathew for a run while I scooted the M-T Pockets Monte around the course in exchange. Mat and Ray really have that car running faster now, I need to start watching my back as they are coming for me. Tommy still has us covered though as he finished 6th overall in Pax in his Camaro.

Here's a clip of my fastest run, check out the top speed in the straight across the middle of the course!! We race again with SCCA Nov 3rd at AMP and then Nov 15-17 at Good Guys in Scottsdale. Let me know if you want to come watch and possibly go for a ride along.

CMPQiSC7HlU

Here are the top 30 finishers sorted by PAX just to give you an idea of the cars and drivers we ran with yesterday.

Category Driver Car Best Raw Time Pax Time
SPM Brian Peters 2017 Chevrolet Camaro 1LE 45.428 36.706
SPM Doug Rowse 2017 Chevrolet Corvette 45.214 36.940
SPM Dave Schotz 2020 Toyota Supra 46.088 37.239
SPM Steve Eymann 2016 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 46.572 38.049
Open Tommy Tommerdal Chevrolet Camaro 47.280 38.155
SPM Jason Bucki Camaro 47.489 38.371
SPM Ron Bistrais 2007 Ford Shelby GT 47.073 38.412
SPM Elliot Speidell 1995 BMW 325is 45.221 38.574
SPM Dennis Riehle 1970 Chevrolet Camaro 46.646 38.623
SPM Kenneth Mitchell 1989 Chevrolet Corvette 47.038 39.089
Open Cameron Schotz Toyota Supra 48.393 39.102
Open Lance Hamilton 1985 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS 48.454 39.102
Open Josh Johnston 2006 Mini Cooper JCW 49.286 39.133
Open Sean Dickinson 2010 Chevrolet Corvette 48.346 39.354
SPM Scot Spiewak 2007 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 47.617 39.570
Open James Frink 2014 Subaru BRZ 49.932 39.646
Open Scott Urich 2015 Volkswagen Grand Tourer Injection 50.606 39.776
Open Dave Young 2017 BMW M2 49.229 39.777
Open Chris Groppi 2013 Subaru BRZ 49.356 40.126
Open Matthew Edwards 2014 Ford Mustang 50.549 40.288
Open Doug Osborne 2015 Volkswagen Golf R 49.063 40.428
Open Martin Lippincott 2000 Mazda Miata 51.414 40.463
Open Kim Kemper 2016 Porsche GT3RS 47.544 40.507
Open ChrisSteele 2012 Mini Cooper S 51.079 40.557
Open Mathew Leon 1978 Chevrolet Monte Carlo 50.325 40.612
Open TimBergstrom 1993 Mazda Miata 47.418 40.637
Ladies Kathi Van Der Werf 2018 Porsche Cayman GTS 49.988 40.840
Open Todd Anderson 2016 Scion FRS 50.698 40.863
Open Harry Berzes 2016 Mazda MX5 GT 50.881 40.959

[Che70velle]

Awesome Lance! So when you mentioned Nov. 3 at AMP, your not referring to Atlanta Motorsports Park, you’re referring to Arizona Motorsports Park, correct?

[SSLance]

Correct...

[fleet]

Enjoyed that run Lance!

[SSLance]

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-8f4sQbN/0/fbd6dc4d/O/20191018_063145.jpg

This shot shows how hard the car is digging a bit better I think...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-L75P5km/0/cc094080/XL/IMG_2295_edited-XL.jpg

[SSLance]

More tuning on the Holley. Found and corrected several issues which created the touchy throttle and have it MUCH better now. Super easy to be very smooth on throttle now. Also added some enrichment on MAP rate of change which it didn't have before, helped tremendously with tip in power. Can't wait to race it again Sunday.

Video for attention...

FNbP-xMvVDI

Had a pretty scary hung throttle while testing yesterday. Had a green light with no traffic in front so made a pretty hard hit in first and second gear, then the throttle hung wide open going to third. Pedal was on the floor so I immediately hit the key to switch it off. After I caught my breath while still coasting, I started it again with same result. Once stopped I pulled air cleaner but didn't see the culprit, fiddled with throttle cable and all seemed good so I started it again and it was fine. Once I got it back home, I discovered this...

tY0R8E4zBiU

The screws holding the throttle position sensor had come loose, one completely gone and the other finally loose enough that the shaft jumped the slot in the sensor and the sensor held the throttle open. Yes, the replacement screws got a dose of loc-tite upon reinstall and yes, throttle application is much smoother now.

I was running a datalog during the hung throttle...finally got up the nerve to look at it.

The green line is RPM... At least I know my rev limiter works now... :D

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-MSRBjrP/0/1dac1c69/XL/20191101_075124-XL.jpg

[ScotI]

Wow..... Scary indeed.

[SSLance]

Spent the day yesterday throwing Barney around another AZ Region SCCA Solo autocross course testing the recent changes made to correct the touchy throttle issue and I can report it is MUCH better...almost Quadrajet smooth once again. Thanks to all of those that helped diagnose and tweak the oddities that created the issue. The car ran great, rear end stayed under it for the most part and the engine made fantastic power everywhere.

Now if only the driver could do his part... The course was tough, it required patience, something I don't have much of as you'll see in the video. The real strange thing though was I ran a 54.541 on my 3rd run...AND my 4th run...using two completely different strategies... Both runs are in the attached video.

Now off to SEMA for a couple days... See a bunch of you there...

MqSDHqbCIJI

[Goosesdad]

Oh man! Glad it didn't get hurt.

[SSLance]

Still wore out from a fantastic motorsports filled weekend. Spent Friday and Saturday racing Barney at the Good Guys Fall Nationals and then spent Sunday wheeling our new Jeep up Crown King Road from Lake Pleasant to Crown King and back down.

Good Guys went fantastic. The changes made to the car to better prepare it for these kinds of courses worked great. The new rear suspension setup really helped plant the awesome power the new Holley EFI created which resulted in fast times comparable to or better than a lot of shop built, high horsepower, big tired cars on Friday. The newly sealed surface was challenging for sure but we made it work pretty well for us I thought. Then they used a vac truck to clean it up Saturday morning and man did the surface get better quick. Some drivers were running times 2-3 seconds faster Saturday morning than they did on Friday, I picked up about a second on Saturday...typically unheard of at any autocross event. We ended up 2 positions out of the 32 car field shootout after Saturday morning runs were done...then one car in the field could not continue, so Scot Spiewak made the field...leaving me out by just a few thousandths of a second. I'm okay with that as the field was stacked with purpose built cars and championship quality drivers, I was just happy to be in the running and able to head home early.

Here is my fastest run which was also my last run of the day on Saturday.

UI5I6O7VkDc

My friend Paul was in town from Iowa and took this video from the sidelines of the same run.

km6jfcw477s

Had a great time seeing and hanging out with all of my racing friend from across the Country, love this event and the way it brings people to the wonderful fall weather here in Phoenix.

Speaking of wonderful fall weather, we took out Sunday morning in our other new vehicle to tackle some off road trails. The new to us Jeep did much better than even I expected and showed the 4 others with me a new form of recreation. I think they are all now fans of off roading and can't wait to do it again. The trail went from easy, to moderate, to difficult the higher we went and the Rubicon handled each obstacle with ease. Even had to go around a nice Can Am Side by Side so that we could pull him over a large rock he kept getting high centered on. Of course the Go Pro and cell phones were rolling the whole time. The views up the mountain were spectacular and the landscaped changed to 3 completely different ecosystems as we climbed. Hard to believe the views in these pics are from less than 30 miles from our house in a huge City like Phoenix. Love living here!!!

Here is a video I put together showing a bit of the trail and pulling the SXS out.

iONYLOdjc_Q

And a few of the pics from up above...

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-QnzjkK7/0/886547a8/X2/i-QnzjkK7-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fmnNw5j/0/223cc355/XL/i-fmnNw5j-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WnpKtZh/0/3b4c8db8/XL/i-WnpKtZh-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hVpbSKb/0/34d2416e/XL/i-hVpbSKb-XL.jpg

[ScotI]

Nice view(s).

[rustomatic]

Nice view and great pics! I spent an hour in Phoenix traffic today, which may sound bad, but it is impressive how explosively the area is growing. Lots of new stuff and tons of new people probably amount to your property values improving as you age. That's a good result!

[SSLance]

Nice view(s).

Thanks, we agree!!



Nice view and great pics! I spent an hour in Phoenix traffic today, which may sound bad, but it is impressive how explosively the area is growing. Lots of new stuff and tons of new people probably amount to your property values improving as you age. That's a good result!


We've been out here for just over 2 years now and are still getting used to the hugeness of the area. It's crazy though because even though we are in a metro area with close to 5 million people living here this time of the year, 25 miles away you can get to scenic views and away from it all like above. Truly a special place.

[SSLance]

Last summer during our "off season" I made some significant changes to Barney, adding EFI to the SBC under the hood and making big changes to the rear suspension spring and bar rates. Both changes were meant to make the car not only more competitive on track, but also to make it more street friendly off the track.

It took some dialing in to make everything play nice together, not only a lot of street driving to dial the EFI in but several SCCA autocross events to dial the rear shocks and sway bars in to the new rear setup. I'm very happy with the results, Andrew helped a ton dialing the throttle response in and it is now buttery smooth in all instances and making great power every where. I also have the rear suspension dialed in so well that I have not touched a knob screw or bolt on the car since after the Sept 4th SCCA event.

Since then I drove the car to, raced, and drove home from:

A SCCA event Oct 13 (pax'd 13 out of 126)
A SCCA event Nov 3rd (pax'd 23rd out of 110)
A Good Guys weekend (missed top 32 shootout by .005s of a second)
And a SCCA event Dec 1 (pax'd 15th out of 108)

All with the exact same setup in a 3500# small tire car with 57% of the weight on the front tires. Results like this are attributed to all of those that have helped me learn how to tune as well as learn how to drive over the past bunch of years. This hobby is filled with people that continue to pay it forward and this is what makes it so rewarding for me. I only hope I can continue to pay it forward to others in the same manner. Hopefully this car can be a testament that one can run competitively with purpose built autocross cars in a not so prepped, front heavy, stick axle old muscle car as long as you take the time to dial it (and the driver) in properly and still have a ton of fun in the process.

Here is a video of my fastest run at the last SCCA event. It was a tough course with several painfully slow corners that my locker did NOT agree with...but we still came away with a pretty good result.


5K1C8p2KTNQ

[DWC]

Sounds good. Nice to hear you've got it dialed in now.

Daniel

[WSSix]

Glad everything seems to be working out for you, both the car and the move, Lance. I know it's been two years, but that's a heck of a change from KCMO.

[SSLance]

Thanks Trey, we are really starting to settle in now. Kind of strange how long it takes though.

And yes, big change but also a very good change.

[SSLance]

So Andrew has been up to his tricks again... :D

Out of the blue I get an email from him couple days ago.

"I have a new tune for you to try. I completely reworked the fuel table and I changed the fueling strategy from speed density to VE based.

Load it up, drive it around, and let me know how it goes."

Oh My Goodness!! :drive: :morepower

He'd have to chime in with the mumbo jumbo of how and what he did, I only kind of "halfway" understand it. All I know is when I step on the loud pedal now, it goes MUCH faster!!!

I'd really like to strap this thing on a dyno now just to see not only the peak power it makes but also the curves and when it makes the power and where.

[Tinker]

More power? Free?

Pinch yourself, you might be dreaming.

Thanks for continuing to over achieve Lance. You are a great inspiration to show you don't need a fat wallet to have a great performing car.

[SSLance]

We fixed a couple little things and took it for another test drive this morning. Brought the GoPro along this time...

G8qsLDnBd5Q

[andrewb70]

Glad to see you enjoying the EFI, Lance!

Andrew

[SSLance]

Glad to see you enjoying the EFI, Lance!

Andrew

Me too Andrew!!


You and several other pounded on me relentlessly to make sure I did the install part properly and this led to a pretty painless start up initial tune process. Since then I (we) have been able to concentrate on making the tune better rather than chasing gremlins like so many others have had to do.

So thanks for that as well... :)

[Gscherer78ta]

I've started to work with Andrew and I've already seen a big step forward just in him asking question about set up and verifying a few things.

I don't have any video from the test and tune this weekend but, I was smiling the whole time! He hasn't even touched my tune yet, I can't wait for that!

[andrewb70]

Me too Andrew!!

You and several other pounded on me relentlessly to make sure I did the install part properly and this led to a pretty painless start up initial tune process. Since then I (we) have been able to concentrate on making the tune better rather than chasing gremlins like so many others have had to do.

So thanks for that as well... :)

You're welcome! Doing the installation properly is a huge step forward to eliminating gremlins at the start and having a reliable installation that is easier to troubleshoot later on.

Andrew

[rixtrix1]

Wow, Barney really screams now!

[jarhead]

good stuff!

[SSLance]

Little update...

Filled the tank Saturday, got 11.3 mpg burning just over 12 gallons including one autocross event and the rest bombing around on side streets working on engine tune.

I now have 1100 miles on the car since August when I got it running on the EFI. Best part is, the tires still have a TON of life left in them. Last tires only lasted me 900 miles.

Raced it Sunday with local SCCA, had a blast on a super fun course. Ran the GoPro out on each rear fender to watch what the tires were doing since I knew the course would have a lot of slaloms.

q2ftyh1xbyE

Car did great, driver could have been better. Ended up 27th raw, 25th pax overall out of 131 drivers. I'm stoked though because I had so much fun on course and still made it back home in time to watch Chiefs make it to the Superbowl for the first time in 50 years!!!

[SSLance]

Wow, Barney really screams now!

Thanks! We miss you at the track. How are you doing?

good stuff!

Thanks!!

[RT_66_Pro_Touring]

Last summer during our "off season" I made some significant changes to Barney, adding EFI to the SBC under the hood and making big changes to the rear suspension spring and bar rates. Both changes were meant to make the car not only more competitive on track, but also to make it more street friendly off the track.



If I have been tracking your progression right, you were running a significantly stiffer than stock rear spring with a light rear bar. What did you change and why?

[SSLance]

If I have been tracking your progression right, you were running a significantly stiffer than stock rear spring with a light rear bar. What did you change and why?

I ran 600# rear springs and no bar for several years. I went back to 250# rear springs and a fairly light rear bar over the summer on an effort to get more forward grip.

Especially at GGs style first gear courses, the car just spun the rear tires too much.

It now hooks up much better making for faster times and better tire life but I did have to adjust my driving to the loss of lateral grip.

[RT_66_Pro_Touring]

I ran 600# rear springs and no bar for several years. I went back to 250# rear springs and a fairly light rear bar over the summer on an effort to get more forward grip.

Especially at GGs style first gear courses, the car just spun the rear tires too much.

It now hooks up much better making for faster times and better tire life but I did have to adjust my driving to the loss of lateral grip.

Hmmmm. That's counter intuitive to me, softening the rear to get more front bite. Sounds like you lost overall bite and gained rear traction.

[SSLance]

The front lateral grip is still very good, the rear lateral grip is where I gave a little bit on in certain situations. The forward bite increase more than makes up for it though.

[Gscherer78ta]

Hmmmm. That's counter intuitive to me, softening the rear to get more front bite. Sounds like you lost overall bite and gained rear traction.

Softening the rear will allow the weight to transfer to the front when lifting or when the brake is applied, putting more weight over the front tires. Can also have this same effect by decreasing the rebound on the rear shocks.

[SSLance]

Had to add data to this run from Sunday at Marana just to see for myself.

I'm particularly pleased with the cars ability to transition back and forth 1G to 1G several times in a row in a 45-50 mph slalom without breaking a sweat or sliding a tire. We had two drivers running back to back in back to back run groups, so 16 runs total in a little about 2 and a half hours time. We sprayed the right rear and right front tire once to cool them down after the 12th run is all. Other than that just turn the key and go. Still haven't touched a screw or a knob since last October.

Pretty happy camper...

uHxmjm9Q0vQ

Here are some cool pics from the event as well.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PDtNnvT/0/XL/i-PDtNnvT-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TqQSf2K/0/XL/i-TqQSf2K-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FrFvjQq/0/XL/i-FrFvjQq-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9pV7BFW/0/XL/i-9pV7BFW-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-gmVcxn2/0/XL/i-gmVcxn2-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-6fptpVg/0/XL/i-6fptpVg-XL.jpg

Way more great pics from Amanda Hitt here... https://adventurewife.smugmug.com/20200126-Marana-SCCA/i-QF7TkGR

[SSLance]

Finally got around to adding that safety item that I hope I never have to use. On board fire system...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-6mTv5Jg/0/ad45a4c3/XL/20200211_150128-XL.jpg

Here you can see the manual pull T-handle and the driver nozzle.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Wr46Vrh/0/2f807bca/XL/20200211_153308-XL.jpg

Here is the engine nozzle

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-Vv5HCtG/0/ca2971bd/XL/20200209_141141-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-KNxvzTQ/0/d4b21865/XL/20200209_141131-XL.jpg

I didn't grab a pic of the third nozzle that sticks through the trunk floor and points at the fuel pump and fuel lines on top of the fuel tank.

I also finally put a pretty good bend up on the throttle pedal to make it easier to get 100% throttle, probably raised it an inch off the floor.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-K8fQ359/0/0e1b3b0d/XL/20200211_153326-XL.jpg

Now I'm all ready for two days of on track action at Arizona Motorsports Park Feb 22-23. Skipping the SCCA Autocross this weekend to save my tires for the track weekend.

[Sonar Chief]

Lance, looks good! Did you get an automatic system or just a manual system?

Been looking at Safecraft systems also, and by the way ... please make sure ALL firewall pass-throughs are sealed. That pic w the wire loom looks suspiciously loose, FYI.

Michael

[SSLance]

Thanks Michael. It's a 10# 3 nozzle manual system.

[WSSix]

The event pics were great. That 70 Chevelle looks so good even with that pole accident in the drive's side.

Glad the car is working well for you, Lance!

[SSLance]

The event pics were great. That 70 Chevelle looks so good even with that pole accident in the drive's side.

Glad the car is working well for you, Lance!

Mike's car is awesome, all hand built in his home shop too. His wife Amanda always does a great job behind the viewfinder as well. When I get a chance later I'll show his in progress pics fixing the dent. It's in a real bad spot and a royal PITA to repair, but hes getting there.

[flatoutz]

Hi Lance,
The car is looking good and seems to be performing well. The sec gen camaro on the side of you looks interesting.Is the owner a member on lateral-g?


Mike,

[SSLance]

Hi Lance,
The car is looking good and seems to be performing well. The sec gen camaro on the side of you looks interesting.Is the owner a member on lateral-g?


Mike,


So that is Dennis Riehle, do not believe he is member here. He's raced that car forever in ESP, so its "stockish" compared to our CAM builds but runs 12" wide slicks on all 4 and is very fast.

[OLDFLM]

That Dart looks pretty cool too!

[SSLance]

Had a blast at a track day last Saturday, but my day ended early with some strange engine related symptoms.

Here was my first dry session of the day...and the session when the symptoms started.

EarTPX1VDa4


Here is video from my friend Sean's car who was behind me when it happened.


PTF8AOcbSIs?t=174


And this is from Valerie's car starting right when Sean passed me.

https://www.facebook.com/DragonladyGta/videos/639651293272482/?t=507


Symptoms are excessive blowby out valve cover at idle, a bit extra oil pressure at idle (30 vs normal 20 psi) coolant level has risen in recovery tank but appears pretty clean still, smoke out both exhausts (with X pipe) under acceleration after hard deceleration, no strange noises and still runs smooth and powerful at normal operating temp. I parked it on the trailer right after, unloaded and drove into garage and it hasn't started since.

A friend me called last night and brow beat me into finally doing some diagnosis. First pic is oil that came from the bottom of the pan after car has sat since Saturday evening.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-w5VnJq2/0/97c1d20c/XL/20200225_085626-XL.jpg

Oil level was still just touching the end of dipstick like it should have been and it doesn't appear to me that there is any foreign substance in the oil at the bottom of the pan.

Next up is pics of all 8 plugs. Only thing I really noticed is #4 and #5 looking a little bit oily. #2 and #3 may be a bit cleaner than the rest but not that unusual to my eye. Maybe someone here will see something I'm missing though. If you want better pics of a certain plug, just ask.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-PR7N54G/0/b032f0b0/XL/20200225_085427-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-wcVkwFv/0/6c342ee5/XL/20200225_085509-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-L23Gzk6/0/dc14dfb5/XL/20200225_085453-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-J5DnBmL/0/b093a93a/XL/20200225_085531-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-JsMXMPK/0/24f4c172/XL/20200225_085551-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-4QVhTsW/0/f576492c/XL/20200225_085445-XL.jpg

Last is coolant recovery tank. Probably a quart high and it had blown some out already as well. Pretty clean looking, no real sign of oil in it but does have a brownish tint.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-McjrmqL/0/042342b8/XL/20200225_090957-XL.jpg

Best case scenario I see is head gasket? Worst case scenario could be hole burnt in piston or broken ring or ring gland.

Anyone see anything I may be missing?

[hackster]

Love the videos, also its very clear that Barney corners much flatter than I would anticipate for how much travel it has nice work man. Looks like a blast and glad that you are out there using it as it should be =)....We need more people from here out beating on their cars like we do :secret:

I am by no stretch of the imagination an engine expert but cylinder number 4 spark plug has more than a little bit of oil on it. If I were a betting man, I would guess broken Ring or Ringland on cylinder 4 and possibly 5.

Coolant level up is a bit of a question though without it being much different in color.

Whats next? Change oil, fresh plugs and run it? Compression test would probably give you a good indicator if you broke a ring, compression on that hole would be down.

Bummer about the engine, but glad you are having fun with it.

Sean

[hackster]

Also 3 looks like its pretty lean with a totally white ceramic I wonder if 4 was lean?. Are you logging air fuels? Have a guage to monitor?

Its saved my ass a time or two when I had a fueling issue.

Sean

[SSLance]

Love the videos, also its very clear that Barney corners much flatter than I would anticipate for how much travel it has nice work man. Looks like a blast and glad that you are out there using it as it should be =)....We need more people from here out beating on their cars like we do :secret:

I am by no stretch of the imagination an engine expert but cylinder number 4 spark plug has more than a little bit of oil on it. If I were a betting man, I would guess broken Ring or Ringland on cylinder 4 and possibly 5.

Coolant level up is a bit of a question though without it being much different in color.

Whats next? Change oil, fresh plugs and run it? Compression test would probably give you a good indicator if you broke a ring, compression on that hole would be down.

Bummer about the engine, but glad you are having fun with it.

Sean

Thanks, I REALLY enjoyed watching the videos from Sean and Val when they were behind my car. First time I've had that view and it looked good. Had a blast behind the wheel also, I'll post the previous wet session video up below...it was a hoot as well. Just wish I could have enjoyed the drier sessions more.

What is strange about the coolant gain is it has been pushing antifreeze out the recovery tank for a couple of events now. At first I thought the cap on my tank failed after 35 years, so I put a new tank and cap on it...still leaked out. Then I just chalked it up to possibly being overfilled when it puked coolant out at next event. It also puked a bunch out after my 2nd wet session on track...again, first time it's been run hard in long time.

When it didn't go back down after the blowby stuff started, that's when things got strange. Oil level is about where it should be so maybe it's just got a dang air pocket in the cooling system now? I have a 1/8" hole in my thermostat and have NEVER had a hard time getting air out of system. Fill rad up, start engine, when t-stat opens a bit radiator level drops, top off, put cap on and fill recovery tank up boom...done...

The smoke started the first time when it blew the breather off the driver side valve cover. I thought it just fell off and oil drained down on right turns and hit headers. I cleaned it all back up and went out for next session. End of first long straight, big backfire on decel, big puff of smoke out tailpipes, then it went away, next turn...again big puff of smoke in mirrors. I pulled off track and it was huffing smoke out my catch can filter.

BTW, this was all that was in my catch can. Hadn't been emptied in 1500 hard miles.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-HkVwZTJ/0/4c5b8bc9/XL/20200223_095358-XL.jpg

Leakdown test tonight... We'll see. Not really mad or anything, thing has been beat on like a rented mule...just want to know so I can formulate a plan. All I really don't want hurt is the heads. The rest is easily replaceable.

[SSLance]

Also 3 looks like its pretty lean with a totally white ceramic I wonder if 4 was lean?. Are you logging air fuels? Have a guage to monitor?

Its saved my ass a time or two when I had a fueling issue.

Sean


I wasn't logging at the track but have lots of times before while tuning. I need to see if I can zoom in on my GoPro video to the Holley LCD. The lower right corner of the screen is my AFR and I think I see it going yellow at high RPMS on the long straight. Need to see if I can actually read it if zoomed in.

[SSLance]

So this is my normal screen layout

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-ZQ7Ggj9/0/3d6f4581/XL/20200225_151316-XL.jpg

This is the scaling settings on the AFR in lower right.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-G2dtrHf/0/c3b92fa1/XL/20200225_151137-XL.jpg

And here is the video zoomed in showing the AFR going yellow at times.

azHHCUEjwek

It very well could have been going lean on the straights for some reason.

[SSLance]

This is a longer video that shows my whole 2nd session. First time at this track, first two sessions total washouts, with no instructor. Just me trying to find my way around and dodge P-cars...

pGVIuTO1Na4

Total blast...

[carbuff]

Lance,

I'm not sure about the system you are using, but the HP and Dominator systems are generally always logging when the vehicle is running. At least I have mine set up to do that, I think that was the default (been a long time since I had to make that choice).

Might be worth a look in the Holley program (you can use their tuning software and not just the handheld, correct?) to see if any logs are available.

Good luck!

[SSLance]

Lance,

I'm not sure about the system you are using, but the HP and Dominator systems are generally always logging when the vehicle is running. At least I have mine set up to do that, I think that was the default (been a long time since I had to make that choice).

Might be worth a look in the Holley program (you can use their tuning software and not just the handheld, correct?) to see if any logs are available.

Good luck!

Thanks. I have it set to only log when manually started and stopped.

I watched the other video in the wet again and the screen was easier to see then. It is probably spiking rich when it flashed yellow, not lean...that has kinda been its MO since we started tuning it.

We'll figure it out, fix it and move on. Part of the deal...

[SSLance]

More progress made today.

Figured out a way to pull the engine with car on the lift.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-gBRFkLg/0/5f4688bf/XL/20200308_112131-XL.jpg

All kinds of room

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-wZmTRWQ/0/90294552/XL/20200308_112223-XL.jpg

Here is passenger side head. All looks good, just a bit more oil on #4 exhaust valve.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-zfBtJtN/0/e8db4a63/XL/20200308_130758-XL.jpg

Tops of all of the pistons look normalish as do the cylinder walls.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-q3MmMfs/0/b1c6da97/XL/20200308_130738-XL.jpg

This is #4, the one in question.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-F38g4gJ/0/a0eb7ed5/XL/20200308_130001-XL.jpg

Popped #4 out and found this.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-7MGHm9W/0/7415496b/XL/20200308_141127-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-rz4LjPz/0/12f2ca61/XL/20200308_141136-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-V8PvNCD/0/cfea9c22/XL/20200308_135047-XL.jpg

Multiple rings are broken in multiple spots and the top edge of the piston has started melting away. Hard to tell what happened first, oil ring could have failed, let oil in chamber which may have raised compression just enough to cause detonation raising temps above what piston could handle. One or multiple rings could have been just a bit tight, got a bit too hot and broke causing loss of compression. Or something with cooling system could have caused an air pocket, causing that cylinder to get just a bit hot and start the meltdown. It'll be interesting to see if any rings are broken in any other cylinders, haven't pulled any other pistons out yet.

Everything else looks excellent though. Bottom of pan was clean, cylinder walls are unscathed, head gasket looked good, basically you wouldn't know there was problem if not for that one piston. So glad I stopped when I did, that piston was one straight away from exploding.

Bearings look pretty good still.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-vZDHt33/0/fdfcaaf8/XL/20200308_135237-XL.jpg

I won't, but I literally could put a new piston with new rings on that rod and bolt it all back together again and I'm sure it would be fine.

More than likely unless it's stupid expensive it'll get new forged rods and pistons and a refresh on the bearings and rings and a good clean up. I may even consider a cam change to bring things more in line with the rest of the build. We'll see.

No hurry to put it back together though, it needs a new clutch disc and I may put a new accessory drive setup on the front as well as the engine refresh so this will be a bit of an extended project. Pretty dang happy I still have so many good parts left though, could have been much worse.

[WSSix]

Sorry to see this happen, Lance. LS swap time or sticking with the stroker?

[SSLance]

Why would I LS swap at this point? :D

That would just be silly...

[WSSix]

True, but more power at this point will require an LS swap or a silly expensive SBC build requiring boost or high compression and race gas.

I'm considering it if I keep the car. I'm kind of addicted to boost after having the BMW. Not that I'm wanting more power. I'm wanting a smoother idle and easier to drive car. The sound our motors make can't be beat though. That, I would miss.

Good luck what ever you decide, Lance.

[SSLance]

I really don't want or need more power than we were making with this combo. It was pretty perfect for what I do, pulled out of the slower corners awesome while would still run with 500 hp to the rear tires LS stroker cars on the straights all while idling smooth at 680 RPM with 18" of vacuum for the brakes. These heads made the VE tables look similar to LS top ends, no need to upset that apple cart at this point.

Any changes I make will strictly be toward making it safer to live longer first and maybe a cam to flatten out the curves a bit.

[ScotI]

I really don't want or need more power than we were making with this combo. It was pretty perfect for what I do, pulled out of the slower corners awesome while would still run with 500 hp to the rear tires LS stroker cars on the straights all while idling smooth at 680 RPM with 18" of vacuum for the brakes. These heads made the VE tables look similar to LS top ends, no need to upset that apple cart at this point.

Any changes I make will strictly be toward making it safer to live longer first and maybe a cam to flatten out the curves a bit.

I suppose Optimists would say #4 didn't grenade & impact everything else so it's 'all-good' :D.
Disclaimer: I'm a Realist... I guess it is part of the deal but still sucks it happened.

What changes are you considering for the cam? I really liked the combo & still have the info/specs jotted down in a note-book for reference. One thing I never asked though, was it ground on a reduced base circle? A buddy who I was bench racing & talking SBC/FI retrofits with asked when I spoke about your set-up.

[SSLance]

Spent a week or so investigating, diagnosing and soul searching. One thing I found changed the direction I thought i was heading more than anything else.

When I pulled the rest of the pistons out yesterday, I found this broken ring land in #8.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Tb3d6ZG/0/XL/i-Tb3d6ZG-XL.jpg

Everything else about that cylinder was normal as could be.

This tells me that the top end we put together simply outpowered the bottom end and the weakest link (cast pistons) is what gave up first.

Since the block is a 4.005" bore, there is no forged off the shelf piston that will work with it, so machine work it is. This actually helps though because now I can do the machine work to match the parts I pick out...instead of the other way around.

I'm still very happy with the power this combo made so I'll not be making any drastic changes to the recipe, just fortifying some of the weaker parts inside and putting it all back together once again. It'll just take a bit longer and cost a bit more is all.