Budget '69 Camaro Track Car - NO WHINERS!

[Track Junky]

I read a 2:10....:D

I'm not taking the bait :P

[Track Junky]

I'm comparing Dave Brown Thunderhill videos cyclone vs. bypass and to me, the difference looks like a hair over 2s (not in lap times, just segment times of completing the corner).

Cyclone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0HDJlbbK74
vs
Bypass: http://youtu.be/yT7AADEXgGE

What do you guys think?

Karl Chicca was driving in the first vid with turn 5, Dave in the second with the bypass. In addition, if they had equal skills 1:54 and 2:01 is a 7 second split.

[Track Junky]

Mods, can we add a no whiners sticker to my thread title :lol: :woot:


That was quick :thumbsup: :cheers: :woot:

[Flash68]

That was quick :thumbsup: :cheers: :woot:

That's why they hired me. Wait. Asked me to volunteer I meant. :_paranoid

[Flash68]

Karl Chicca was driving in the first vid with turn 5, Dave in the second with the bypass. In addition, if they had equal skills 1:54 and 2:01 is a 7 second split.

We've talked about this before G... how many seconds faster do you think Dave is over Karl, all other things equal?

[Track Junky]

To be honest I dont know but if I was to place a bet I would say 3 seconds.

[Track Junky]

I just got an e-mail from Vince saying we actually have some video of T-Hill from the Gopro. He's going to try and e-mail it to me. If it doesn't go through I will be in the Bay Area next week to work on my car and upload vid.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I doubt we'll be able to stream the whole vid. Plus I don't think these guys wanna see 10 min of you banging your head against the inside of your trailer.

[intocarss]

Plus I don't think these guys wanna see 10 min of you banging your head against the inside of your trailer. I do I do!!! :cheers:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

lol, motor partially apart.

I'll let Gaetano fill in the details. I think he got lucky but we will get the heads pulled tomorrow and know for sure.

Vince

[Track Junky]

Started out by seeing what it would look like behind the timing cover. Other than a missing chain it looked good. After that we pulled distributor out to see if maybe the distributor gear failed. All good there. Spun the oil pump from up top and seemed OK. Pulled the intake and found #5 intake push rod snapped in half, #3 exhaust push rod bent, #6 intake push rod bent. Pulling heads off in the morning.

[intocarss]

did you pull any lifters out and look at them

[Vegas69]

That will end in some bent valves. Does your spec sheet mention the timing chain maker and part number?

[Ron in SoCal]

lol, motor partially apart.

I'll let Gaetano fill in the details. I think he got lucky but we will get the heads pulled tomorrow and know for sure.

Vince

Oh man Vince I hope that's the case! :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

did you pull any lifters out and look at them

That will end in some bent valves. Does your spec sheet mention the timing chain maker and part number?

I pulled the lifter from #5 so far just to see if it was marred in any way since the pushrod literally snapped in half. Lifter looked fine to my surprise.

This is a real odd deal and we are trying to get to the bottom of what may have caused this. The pushrods are 5/16 diameter so its not like they were pinners. I do expect to see some bent valves but I think Vince thinks I may have dodged a bullet. We'll see in the morning.

Tomorrow morning we will pull motor. Then we will pull heads off and take a peek. Once the heads have been pulled and inspected I'm going to take a look at the oil pump. Something had to have jammed somewhere in order for the chain to snap. I have never seen a timing chain fail before so I would really like to get to the bottom of this.

The timing chain is a PBM double roller

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Hard to determine if it was the chicken or the egg. My SWAG is chain link came apart and and caused a cosmic valve train kiss that caused the push rods to bend and break. Obvious that it was during #5 suck.

Im certain PBM = Pull Broken Motor

[Track Junky]

Im certain PBM = Pull Broken Motor

Thats ****ed up :lol:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Thats ****ed up :lol:

sorry wrong thread.... Cloyes race chain next time around.

or like i said...
http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/308142/1600893/0/1228204628/Minibike_spare_parts_Chain_link_for_midi_bike.jpg

[Vegas69]

As the old saying goes, **** happens. You may as well stroke, bore it, better heads, and a much larger cam while it's apart. Scratch that, put one of them limp wristed LS thingymajiggers in there. Just promise me you'll put turbos on it so I don't hear it while I'm passing you.:lol:

[Track Junky]

This thing will never see an LS....you can count on that! I am considering another set of heads though. I think a set of Dart Pro 1 Platinums should get me up around your HP range :unibrow:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

He won't do it Todd.....my LS2 is sitting not 10 feet away and he won't even look in its direction. LOL

He was hinting to going with the larger heads.

[Flash68]

Just send those heads to a real good head guy instead of buying some other shelf heads for 9 horsepower. :D :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Just send those heads to a real good head guy instead of buying some other shelf heads for 9 horsepower. :D :thumbsup:

thats what I said.

[intocarss]

This thing will never see an LS....you can count on that! I am considering another set of heads though. I think a set of Dart Pro 1 Platinums should get me up around your HP range :unibrow:
http://cferacing.com/

http://www.raceflowdevelopment.com/RFD-heads.htm

[Flash68]

http://cferacing.com/

http://www.raceflowdevelopment.com/RFD-heads.htm

There's that good solid Yellowbullet knowledge right there. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

There's that good solid Yellowbullet knowledge right there. :thumbsup: With some B Lambeck mixed in ;)

[Track Junky]

I didn't see anything about 23* heads in either of those.

[Flash68]

Here's your man. Programs for Dart Pro 1 and Platinum.

http://www.ronsportingservice.com/

[intocarss]

I didn't see anything about 23* heads in either of those.18* FTW

[Flash68]

18* FTW

I was waiting for that. :lol:

[Track Junky]

Yeah, as soon as I get Gordon or Weld money :lol: .

Heads in it right now are Dart Pro 1 230/72 cc. I know springs were spec'd for cam because off the shelf seat pressures dont match build specs. I going to have to talk to the NYES guys before I do anything. I know they recently picked up a CNC machine specific for head work so I should probably give them a call first.

[intocarss]

Yeah, as soon as I get Gordon or Weld money :lol: .



Doesn't this thread say "NO WHINERS"?? ;)

[Flash68]

Yeah, as soon as I get Gordon or Weld money :lol: .



Shiiiiat, don't you dare put me on the same planet as Weld when talking about cash. :rolleyes: :lol:

I have been selling more parts lately then purchasing ya know. :lol:

[GregWeld]

Shiiiiat, don't you dare put me on the same planet as Weld when talking about cash. :rolleyes: :lol:

I have been selling more parts lately then purchasing ya know. :lol:



Grasshopper..... in awhile you'll learn to experience silk... and cotton... and appreciate both.


:D

[Track Junky]

Got the heads pulled today. Looks like a few valves kissed pistons and a couple of them aren't seating properly...not majorly but enough. Looks like I will be replacing the oil pan also.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/pulledEngine5-50-12008.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/pulledEngine5-50-12007.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/pulledEngine5-50-12006.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/pulledEngine5-50-12005.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/pulledEngine5-50-12004.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/pulledEngine5-50-12003.jpg

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Don't forget to tell them about the eastern timing chain breakage history....we'll be doing a deck height check too.

[Sieg]

If that's the extent of the damage :thumbsup:

Fingers are crossed for ya buddy.

[GregWeld]

Nothing a few thousand dollars can't fix.... 'tis racing you know! And the tag line/signature line says that equals poverty!


:D

[sixnina]

Gaetano,
So is there any indication of what might have caused this?
Chain failure? Would it still be warrantied

[Track Junky]

Gaetano,
So is there any indication of what might have caused this?
Chain failure? Would it still be warrantied

That was the first thing we tried to do.....find out what may have caused the chain to brake. After eliminating the distributor gear and the oil pump I gave the engine builder a call. He told me that around the time I had bought my motor from him there was a spell of timing chain failures. He also told me that the chains being used on the timing chains were Japanese made including the Cloyes timing chains and that he had gone to Cloyes after another PBM chain broke on another motor he had built but ended up going back to the PBM's. I asked, if I were to buy another timing who's should I go with and he still recommended the PBM.

[Track Junky]

Nothing a few thousand dollars can't fix.... 'tis racing you know! And the tag line/signature line says that equals poverty!


:D

Taking into consideratin that I'm doing 88% of the work I dont think I will be hitting the $3000 mark. I will have NYES do the head work since they're the one's that built the heads in the first place. The other items on top of that will be timing chain, timing chain cover, lifters, oil pan, and gaskets. I was going to do some extra headwork but decided to wait after talking to NYES. They recommended going to a larger cam profile in addition to the headwork for more power and I'm not prepared to go there yet. This shouldn't cost me more than $1500.

You are right though.........'tis part of racing :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

If that's the extent of the damage :thumbsup:

Fingers are crossed for ya buddy.

Thanks Sieg. Last thing to check today will be piston to deck clearance. Hopefully we should be good. :thumbsup:

[clill]

With some B Lambeck mixed in ;)

I had the engine in Welds yellow Mustang rebuilt by Lambeck at a cost of about 15K and it lasted about 1 session till the oil pump broke off. He had reused the old oil pump. My guess is somebody in his shop had dropped the pump and cracked it, didn't notice it and put it back on. His response to me was too bad but that stuff happens. Had me ship the engine back, tore it down, new bearing, rings etc but he said the old stuff wasn't really hurt, charged me about 5 thousand dollars more. Next time out I made it thru about 10 minutes of a session when the oil pressure started dropping. Pulled the filter and it was full of metal. His response to me was I must have been doing something wrong and told me to ship it back to him. I'm stupid but not that stupid. Sent the engine to Tony Oddo, got rid of the cheap parts that had been used and it has run like a top ever since. Never got one receipt from Lambeck for all the work done either.

[clill]

That was the car. His engine ran fine until I sent it back just to have it freshened up. I never argued about price and mailed him checks the day he asked for them. I was surprised at the 15K bill for freshening but sometimes that is what it takes to make something bulletproof. I was surprised that the 15K did not include a new oil pump. Then I wondered what else wasn't new, especially since I never got a list of parts that went in it. I'm told he has gotten so big he has many employees doing the work instead of himself ? Maybe I just got the new trainee employee. My few track days are too important to me to be wasted because of crappy work or shortcuts. Maybe for other people he stands behind his work but in my case it never happened. It was a expensive lesson for me....Sorry for the highjack but when I read the name my blood pressure went up. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.:willy:

[Vegas69]

May as well swap the valve springs and check the oil pump for internal damage from debris. I'd find a local engine builder.

[GregWeld]

That was the car. His engine ran fine until I sent it back just to have it freshened up. I never argued about price and mailed him checks the day he asked for them. I was surprised at the 15K bill for freshening but sometimes that is what it takes to make something bulletproof. I was surprised that the 15K did not include a new oil pump. Then I wondered what else wasn't new, especially since I never got a list of parts that went in it. I'm told he has gotten so big he has many employees doing the work instead of himself ? Maybe I just got the new trainee employee. My few track days are too important to me to be wasted because of crappy work or shortcuts. Maybe for other people he stands behind his work but in my case it never happened. It was a expensive lesson for me....Sorry for the highjack but when I read the name my blood pressure went up. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.:willy:



Thanks for having it done at Odo... before selling it to me! I L O V E this engine! I sleep with it under my pillow.


Chow!


:woot:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

yeah its hard to find a great builder. I have worked with several machine shops so we have a few to deal with but we'll try to get him to trust someone near by.

[Bucketlist2012]

Greg..Are you going to eat Chow ?

Ciao.

[GregWeld]

Greg..Are you going to eat Chow ?

Ciao.




Chow is more my style and I like to try to be funny....


My new favorite saying while driving is "Skooza..." as in Excuse me - with an Italian accent followed by "so sorry..." I get quite pleased with myself. :lol:

[Flash68]

I'd find a local engine builder.

Seriously. Especially after your issues with NYES I am surprised of your loyalty, G. It'd be one thing if they were local but they're half way across the country AND they sent you a leaker before.

[Bucketlist2012]

Chow is more my style and I like to try to be funny....


My new favorite saying while driving is "Skooza..." as in Excuse me - with an Italian accent followed by "so sorry..." I get quite pleased with myself. :lol:

You are a funny guy.. Rich, Funny, and Lucky...Great Combo..

Oh no, I am high jacking again.." Skooza", and "So sorry"....:_paranoid

Now I am hungry....Chow...:thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

May as well swap the valve springs and check the oil pump for internal damage from debris. I'd find a local engine builder.

Valve springs are definite......I'll check oil pump today.

Seriously. Especially after your issues with NYES I am surprised of your loyalty, G. It'd be one thing if they were local but they're half way across the country AND they sent you a leaker before.

NYES built the motor then sold it to me. That includes the heads.....built from bare castings. It's their motor. They need to be the ones that work on it period. I'm not 100% happy and confident with my decision but thats how I feel.

After they fixed the leaks last time around everything was fine. This last incident will need more research.

[sik68]

I hear you on utilizing NYES; I hope they take good care of you G!

[GregWeld]

After they fixed the leaks last time around everything was fine. This last incident will need more research.



Oh I've made that fatal mistake more than once.... I'm thick - it takes me a couple tries sometimes because I prefer the "benefit of the doubt".... But I'm getting smarter!

Good engine builders get it right the first time. Trust me on this one!

[Matt@BOS]

Oh I've made that fatal mistake more than once.... I'm thick - it takes me a couple tries sometimes because I prefer the "benefit of the doubt".... But I'm getting smarter!

Good engine builders get it right the first time. Trust me on this one!

Hah! I'm learning that same thing right now. I've been pretty lucky with parts, and expenses but between having to figure out what was wrong on my own, and also breaking things, it has cost me a lot of time. I have never had an engine that ran without issue since I've owned my car. What is the point of paying a good amount of money for something that ultimately keeps you from enjoying your car, versus paying a little bit more. At what point do we have to step back and think about how much our time is worth?

Matt

[Sieg]

Good engine builders get it right the first time. Trust me on this one!
But what they can't do is accurately determine when a component may fail. :D If it was a weak timing chain or bad metalurgy in the gear or elsewhere.......Not defending just a reality IMO.

Timing chains make me nervous. My seat of the pants judgement leans towards a belt or high quality gear drive for max durability. But they are 2-3 x's chains or gears.

[Vegas69]

They look to have a pretty decent reputation by a quick search. They do seem like a volume crate engine company with some agressive pricing. The more volume and the less margin an engine builder has, the more mistakes and supect parts that will be used.

Unfortunately, I speak from experience. My first engine was built by a crate engine volume place and it was the demise of my engine. They made a mistake and it wiped the bearings. I then found bad guides and a super sloppy timing chain upon disassembly. They offered to fix it but I knew they weren't capable.

Sieg has a point about the part failure. It happens to the best parts. However, some manufacturers have higher standards and less failures. Is the builder using the part to increase profit and attract busines, or because he's freshended up many engines with the same part and inspected them after service?

For us guys that are really leaning on our equipment, I like a clean sheet build and a builder that puts his hands on EVERYTHING specified for the application. My blueprint from Pettis Performance would blow your mind.

[Track Junky]

They look to have a pretty decent reputation by a quick search. They do seem like a volume crate engine company with some agressive pricing. The more volume and the less margin an engine builder has, the more mistakes and supect parts that will be used.

Unfortunately, I speak from experience. My first engine was built by a crate engine volume place and it was the demise of my engine. They made a mistake and it wiped the bearings. I then found bad guides and a super sloppy timing chain upon disassembly. They offered to fix it but I knew they weren't capable.

Sieg has a point about the part failure. It happens to the best parts. However, some manufacturers have higher standards and less failures. Is the builder using the part to increase profit and attract busines, or because he's freshended up many engines with the same part and inspected them after service?

For us guys that are really leaning on our equipment, I like a clean sheet build and a builder that puts his hands on EVERYTHING specified for the application. My blueprint from Pettis Performance would blow your mind.

My take.......NYES does alot of volume due to the aggressive pricing. You cant blame me for jumping on an aluminum block 427 race engine for $9850 shipped. That price no longer stands and I'm pretty sure I am the last guy that got that deal just by luck because that ad was removed from the Racejunk site after I bought it. They now charge over $3000 more for the same motor on pump gas and only 525 hp. On top of that at no charge they balanced my flywheel to the assembly, centered my Lakewood bellhousing to the block, and had a cam custom ground for my specific application.
Building a relationship with a builder takes time. My feeeling is that if I continue to return we will build a relationship and maybe I get some extra attention. Only time will tell.

As far as the failure goes I will need to do some more research.

Todd, your right about smaller builders that work alone or have a small crew. We were talking about that today at the shop....Vince was trying to talk me into using a local guy that does all the work personally but what experience does he have with PBM blocks and with race motors. Picking an engine builder should be something that one does after alot of research.

[sixnina]

NYES built the motor then sold it to me. That includes the heads.....built from bare castings. It's their motor. They need to be the ones that work on it period. I'm not 100% happy and confident with my decision but thats how I feel.

I agree with using a local machinist but as long as we're human errors can and will be made. I use my local machinist for years and have always built my own engines, partly because of cost but also I believe that if you want it done right.......That's what we do from these projects building them. IMHO

Shane

[Track Junky]

I agree with using a local machinist but as long as we're human errors can and will be made. I use my local machinist for years and have always built my own engines, partly because of cost but also I believe that if you want it done right.......That's what we do from these projects building them. IMHO

Shane[/quote]

Agreed. If I had the time, the shop, and the tools I would do the same. It's gotta be nice to gap your own rings and check your own tolerances.

[intocarss]

Hey G, Knowing you drive your car hard, I'd say your High Compression race eng has held up very well. If it wasn't for a unforeseen & unfortunate mechanical failure It would still be running today.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I agree with using a local machinist but as long as we're human errors can and will be made. I use my local machinist for years and have always built my own engines, partly because of cost but also I believe that if you want it done right.......That's what we do from these projects building them. IMHO

Shane

Agreed. If I had the time, the shop, and the tools I would do the same. It's gotta be nice to gap your own rings and check your own tolerances.

your anal retentive enough to be a great engine builder (assembler), we can build you a nice clean room to do it in.

[Track Junky]

Hey G, Knowing you drive your car hard, I'd say your High Compression race eng has held up very well. If it wasn't for a unforeseen & unfortunate mechanical failure It would still be running today.

I agree.....**** happens. Every time I have gotten a first place it has cost me a motor. I might have to take second for now on just to save some money :lol:

your anal retentive enough to be a great engine builder (assembler), we can build you a nice clean room to do it in.

Funny, but your right........we may have to do this :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I agree.....**** happens. Every time I have gotten a first place it has cost me a motor. I might have to take second for now on just to save some money :lol:



Funny, but your right........we may have to do this :thumbsup:

Or just have 2 or 3 identical spare engines in the trailer. Maybe we can have you apprentice with Gordon, he is the #1 Hemi builder in the Western Hemi's-spere. If you can master a Hemi, you can build anything. He said he would teach anyone that would be willing to learn. :hail:

I think we found a new hobby for you. Thats is you don't mind sharing space in the compressor room. :lol:

[Track Junky]

I just talked to PBM about their timing chains and the rep told me that they had a few issues with their EID chains(not sure what EID means) so they upgraded to Rolon chains.

He said they had been using the EID's for 15 years prior with no issues but within the last two years issues had been occuring so they switched to Rolon a year ago.

Here's a link with a little info:

http://www.jp.com.au/Chain.html

[Vince@Meanstreets]

does that make you SOL?

[Track Junky]

Everybody is a ****ing comedian :rolleyes: :lol:

[sik68]

does that make you SOL?

I LOL'd

[intocarss]

does that make you SOL? SOL is better then OTR

[Vince@Meanstreets]

SOL is better then OTR

yeah NFS, just like the FNG.

[clill]

Or just have 2 or 3 identical spare engines in the trailer. Maybe we can have you apprentice with Gordon, he is the #1 Hemi builder in the Western Hemi's-spere. If you can master a Hemi, you can build anything. He said he would teach anyone that would be willing to learn. :hail:

I think we found a new hobby for you. Thats is you don't mind sharing space in the compressor room. :lol:

Or just put a good LS in it. :D

[Sieg]

Are Allan and Andy Acronym having fun yet?

[Track Junky]

Or just put a good LS in it. :D


LS's are for street driven gas savers :unibrow:

I like driving with something in it I could beat on like a red headed step child :lol:

[Sieg]

LS's are for street driven gas savers :unibrow:
Good motor for the wife's SUV grocery getter. :D

[Flash68]

Or just put a good LS in it. :D

But they don't just sound as good as your and Greg's Mustangs. :unibrow:

[seancarole]

sh*t bit the bullet call nelson

[Vince@Meanstreets]

he'd be biting more than a bullet if he called Nelson. LOL

[Vegas69]

sh*t bit the bullet call nelson

You should be banned, beaten, drug behing an old Dodge diesel on a lumpy Iowa gravel road for that response.

Nothing personal. :lol:

[Flash68]

sh*t bit the bullet call nelson

He wants a fast car not a big dyno # and burnout session.

[fleetus macmullitz]

But they don't just sound as good as your and Greg's Mustangs. :unibrow:

Agreed.

On the other hand, it surprised me how good some of the previous gen F-bodies sound with a GMMG catback.

No motor mods just exhaust.

4Cgvxa88FtM

[Track Junky]

You should be banned, beaten, drug behing an old Dodge diesel on a lumpy Iowa gravel road for that response.

Nothing personal. :lol:

He wants a fast car not a big dyno # and burnout session.



:cheers: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :cheers:

[skatinjay27]

He wants a fast car not a big dyno # and burnout session.
Lets not forget he wants it done within this year. :D

[seancarole]

Guess that hit a few nerves! Hell I thought it was funny. Go with someone local. It's nice to be close if and when something comes up.

[Track Junky]

I copied this link from an e-mail Jerdog sent to me that I thought was pretty interesting. Also, upon more research i have found that many engine builders have been complaining about how loose the chains have been fitting lately as opposed to years ago. I remember when I was putting timing chains on back in the day they were always very tight. Apparently that hasn't been the case as of late.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/1225/timing_chain_selection_and_a_look_at_new_and_how_t o.aspx

[Track Junky]

This is a pic of the Hy-Vo chain used in the NASCAR engines that are not running belt drives. I am currently trying to see if they make one for Chevy applications.http://image.circletrack.com/f/26295476+w750+st0/ctrp_1003_11_z+nascar_sprint_cup_engine+timing_cha in_setup.jpg (http://image.circletrack.com/f/26295476/ctrp_1003_11_z+nascar_sprint_cup_engine+timing_cha in_setup.jpg)

[Flash68]

Good stuff. I am waiting to see what you decide to use. :unibrow: I'm gonna ask Watson Racing what they recommend and use next time I'm there too.

[seancarole]

That is something I was talking about with a local engine builder. I have been thinking of using a high end gear drive and he said a good roller "comp" or belt drive "jesel" I just don't feel like I can trust a chain with all differences in stretch and balance. Still undecided I like the high end gear drive units.

[Track Junky]

Another option would be this belt drive system. I like the xceldyne because you can get it with a dust cover.

http://pitstopusa.com/i-5076159-xceldyne-timing-systems-pro-series-xts-belt-drive-timing-system-sb-chevy-standard-cam-sb-chevy-snout-solid-spider-grooved-rail.html

[Track Junky]

That is something I was talking about with a local engine builder. I have been thinking of using a high end gear drive and he said a good roller "comp" or belt drive "jesel" I just don't feel like I can trust a chain with all differences in stretch and balance. Still undecided I like the high end gear drive units.

I talked to my engine builder about gear drive and he said the dog bone style were unreliable. He told me that the most reliable gear drive set up would be one that had the center gear integrated with the timing cover. I dont remember who he said makes it though.

[Flash68]

Man, are we gonna end up with belt drives? :willy:

Found this quick and to the point article.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/Notes_From_The_Road/Belt_Drives_Versus_Timing_Chains.aspx

[seancarole]

I was thinking Summers Brothers

[Track Junky]

Another option

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=6507&Category_Code=HTBelt

[Track Junky]

Summers Brothers

http://www.summersbrothersracing.com/camshaft%20drives.htm

[intocarss]

Gear Drives,,,
N/A engine - you dont want them in a N/A car because they transfer too many harmonics to the valve train, basically too sturdy and can cause issues

Blown engine - gear drive is good to use here due to the force they see. the thing that will allow a blown engine to work good with these are the have a large blower belt coming off the crankshaft so this makes a gear drive perfect here

Timing Chains,,,
N/A engine - good for use on any N/A or NOS engine with normal spring pressure for roller cams (600-650max open IMO) or any flat tappet engine. Drag race or circle track

RPM means little to nothing with timing chains until spring pressure goes up. Racers running camshafts that are very aggressive (not something a bracket racer/street guy would run, more like a Super Stock or Comp camshaft) that need say 800 pounds open and are pushing the valve train to the limit will be trying to retard the camshaft the way it wears the camshaft gear teeth so this is when a belt drive comes in to play here

If your not running that sort of aggressive lobe/rocker combo with high spring pressure it really doesnt make a huge difference which one you go with, more so which one you can afford.

You can set thrust easier and degree the cam easier with the belt drive.

If you use a timing chain you need to use the SA Gear Billet with the 2 piece adjustable cam gear (like a belt drive) or the Cloyes 9 key way set or the Cloyes unit with the adjustable cam gear. I would not use a timing chain that is not billet, they seem to allow the chain to fit better

SA Gear the chain fits tighter and stays tighter which are many Comp, Lunati and Erson timing sets.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



OK here is my experiance with all three
over the years i have used and seen all three devices
i have put gear drives in engines that were used in dirt track , street and drag and have never had a failure as of yet , i know it happens but it has not happened as of yet with the stuff i have seen i think they work well , if these things can live 5 seasons in a late model dirt car then i assure you they will last in a drag race application

timing chains- have used over the years with equal good luck , but have seen them stretch with very little use in high rpm motors, but yes they have come a long way in the last few years and if you are on a budget then they are the way to go

belt drives - i use a jesel on my stuff as i like the fact i can degree in the cam easier and can adjust for ****y track conditions if i need to and i do believe that they help with harmonics when you start getting into the higher RPM range and the timing seems more stable

but let me add this---why would you put a 70 dollar timing chain on a 10-25 thousand dollar engine just does not seem right but i guess that is just me ,kind of like using a 29 dollar oil pump on a motor you pay big dollars for--will it work, yes but i just can not see the point in doing it
but to each their own

[seancarole]

Summers Brothers

http://www.summersbrothersracing.com/camshaft%20drives.htm

Yes used alot in sprint cars

[Sieg]

Another option

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=6507&Category_Code=HTBelt

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/cca-6507_w.jpg

$1070 at Summit

[Track Junky]

I also read that SA makes PBM.

I'm swaying toward belt drive right now but i'll need to do more research. Accesability and adjustability make the belt drive desirable. If the belt drives can handle high cylinder pressures and 14:1 compression it may be the better choice.
The Summers Brothers option is pretty interestng also.

[Track Junky]

The only thing I dont like about the Comp belt drive is they dont have a dust cover option.

[Track Junky]

Yes used alot in sprint cars

Good to know, and I know alot of sprint cars are using the PBM aluminum blocks so I like this option.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

guys guys guys, chains are fine, the end of the world is not coming....well if it is i'll see you in hell. LOL

[Track Junky]

Shaver-Wesmar

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Shaver-Wesmar-Small-Block-Chevy-Gear-Drive-Standard-Cam-Height,3188.html

[intocarss]

I also read that SA makes PBM.

I'm swaying toward belt drive right now but i'll need to do more research. Accesability and adjustability make the belt drive desirable. If the belt drives can handle high cylinder pressures and 14:1 compression it may be the better choice.
The Summers Brothers option is pretty interestng also.
Cloyes & SA make the high end timing gears for many different timing sets that are sold by other Co's. ie Summit, Manley. Lunati, Crane, Comp & Jegs etc.. It comes down to what brand chain these other Co's decided to use with their sets



.A belt drive will be more precise with timing and take out end play in the cam and hermonics in the valve train. It is also nice to be able to change cam timing without pulling the timing cover.

I do agree with Vince..A good timing chain set will be more then enough for your application G


On a side note I read that the PBM alum block is made in New Zealand

[Track Junky]

I think the cam thrusting forward at higher rpms contributed to the chain failure. If checking the chain for wear is going on the maintenance list wouldn't it be smarter to go belt drive?

[Flash68]

guys guys guys, chains are fine, the end of the world is not coming....well if it is i'll see you in hell. LOL

I was just thinking the same thing! :willy:



On a side note I read that the PBM alum block is made in New Zealand

And the PMB iron block is no longer made in Asia. :D

[Track Junky]

I think the cam thrusting forward at higher rpms contributed to the chain failure. If checking the chain for wear is going on the maintenance list wouldn't it be smarter to go belt drive?

In addition cam end play will be easier to fine tune.

[intocarss]

I think the cam thrusting forward at higher rpms contributed to the chain failure. If checking the chain for wear is going on the maintenance list wouldn't it be smarter to go belt drive? Yes it would be smarter. Most say a chain will stretch faster then a belt but a belt does have a shorter life span I changed my Jesel after 3 seasons and it was still tight But I don't take chances I was more worried with it being dried out

IMOHO I'd stay clear of a gear drive

[Sieg]

This with a Hex-adjust True Roller set up and you should be good.
http://www.cloyes.com/Portals/10/Images/Products/2QuickButton_Large2.jpg

Don't forget Jesel

[intocarss]

And the PMB iron block is no longer made in Asia. :D

Really? I didn't know that, where are they made now a days? Thanks.

[FETorino]

Danny Bee belt drives are pretty slick also. The ease of adjustability is pretty sweet. You can even have a slightly different timing spec for specific tracks if you want. I'm not sure on the SBC but on the FE Danny Bee set up the belt is in plain view and can be checked periodically. None of them are less than $1k so it is a big leap from a quality chain in price for sure.:rolleyes:

I've looked into them just haven't justified the cost yet. Yet:D

[Track Junky]

Yes it would be smarter. Most say a chain will stretch faster then a belt but a belt does have a shorter life span I changed my Jesel after 3 seasons and it was still tight But I don't take chances I was more worried with it being dried out

IMOHO I'd stay clear of a gear drive

Isn't smarter what we strive for every day? :lol:

I figured it was a no brainer. :unibrow:

[Track Junky]

Another option would be this belt drive system. I like the xceldyne because you can get it with a dust cover.

http://pitstopusa.com/i-5076159-xceldyne-timing-systems-pro-series-xts-belt-drive-timing-system-sb-chevy-standard-cam-sb-chevy-snout-solid-spider-grooved-rail.html

Danny Bee belt drives are pretty slick also. The ease of adjustability is pretty sweet. You can even have a slightly different timing spec for specific tracks if you want. I'm not sure on the SBC but on the FE Danny Bee set up the belt is in plain view and can be checked periodically. None of them are less than $1k so it is a big leap from a quality chain in price for sure.:rolleyes:

I've looked into them just haven't justified the cost yet. Yet:D

Shooting for one with a dust cover

[intocarss]

Danny Bee belt drives are pretty slick also. The ease of adjustability is pretty sweet. You can even have a slightly different timing spec for specific tracks if you want. I'm not sure on the SBC but on the FE Danny Bee set up the belt is in plain view and can be checked periodically. None of them are less than $1k so it is a big leap from a quality chain in price for sure.:rolleyes:

I've looked into them just haven't justified the cost yet. Yet:D The Danny Bee belt drives are very nice! But i do believe he only makes them for FURDS (sorry i had to) ;)

Isn't smarter what we strive for every day? :lol:

I figured it was a no brainer. :unibrow: I agree PLUS a belt drive just looks so damn cool

[intocarss]

Shooting for one with a dust cover You could make your own, some kind of guard.. I hear Vince has mad skills

[Track Junky]

BTW, whats up with the dog in your avatar.......:lol:

[intocarss]

BTW, whats up with the dog in your avatar.......:lol:

One to many :wow:

[Track Junky]

One to many :wow:

Thats what I was thinking :lol:

[intocarss]

Hey G if you get a BD you can run one of these

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Distributors/Chevrolet/Race/8510_-_GM_Small_Block_Front_Drive_Distributor.aspx

[Track Junky]

Who do you think I am....William Randolph Hearst :lol:

Just kiddin', I think I'm good but thanks for showing me the option :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

Who do you think I am....William Randolph Hearst :lol:

Just kiddin', I think I'm good but thanks for showing me the option :thumbsup: I know G I was just clown'n around (What you have now is a good set up) you'd have to have one of these too.. OHHH AWWWW :unibrow:

http://www.msdignition.com/products/crank_triggers/

[Track Junky]

I was just checking out the distributor drives on Jesel's site......definitely different

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Yes it would be smarter. Most say a chain will stretch faster then a belt but a belt does have a shorter life span I changed my Jesel after 3 seasons and it was still tight But I don't take chances I was more worried with it being dried out

IMOHO I'd stay clear of a gear drive



I love the belt drive option but in this case going dry is not a worry, its all the oil he throws around that is.
I agree its great for tuning and is easier to maintain and replace.

Right now its budget and initial investment that is going to be hard to swallow.

Doesn't your block have provisions for a trust plate?

[intocarss]

I love the belt drive option but in this case going dry is not a worry, its all the oil he throws around that is.
I agree its great for tuning and is easier to maintain and replace.

Right now its budget and initial investment that is going to be hard to swallow.

Doesn't your block have provisions for a trust plate?

I cannot ever recall seeing a SBC or a BBC with a cam thrust plate

I respect that

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I thought I saw a threaded portion on his block. Could be wrong.

[sik68]

Gaetano, here's a good comparison from C&D for a handful of data-loggers

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/gearbox-portable-gps-data-recorders-tested

[Sieg]

ORANGE ATTACK!

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Sports/Tee-to-Green/i-J3QnGPz/0/M/IMAG2319-M.jpg
It's Go Time!

[Track Junky]

For who? Cute clubs BTW.

[Track Junky]

Gaetano, here's a good comparison from C&D for a handful of data-loggers

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/gearbox-portable-gps-data-recorders-tested

Thanks Steven :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

For who? Cute clubs BTW.For me :unibrow: I have a limited edition KTM bag and an orange and black car and KTM street bike in the land of Phil Knight and the U of O. So I am subjected to a lot of abuse at the CC which is only a few blocks from the U of O Athletic facilities. Figured I might as well take it to the next level with the grips.

For some reason people have a thing about yellow and green around here even though in the last few years you never know what color the football team will be wearing on game day. Casey Martin use to have a say in the teams game day uniforms but it's be taken to another level of secrecy.

I was talking to Casey a few minutes ago on the putting green, didn't show him the grips yet, though he'll probably approve if I play the Rickie Fowler card since he has a lot of respect for Rickie as a person first player second.

End of threadjack........

[Track Junky]

Well good for you Tiger....now let me sulk in peace as I await the arrival of my heads. :lol:

[Flash68]

Well good for you Tiger....now let me sulk in peace as I await the arrival of my heads. :lol:

You didn't order the Platinums or whatever they're called did ya?

[Vegas69]

Could be the worst thread jack in the history of the world. Just saying. :lol:

[Sieg]

Well good for you Tiger....now let me sulk in peace as I await the arrival of my heads. :lol:Sulking over new heads.......what's the world coming to? :rolleyes:

[Track Junky]

You didn't order the Platinums or whatever they're called did ya?

I already had them and didn't know it until I called NYES and then confirmed part no stamp on heads :unibrow:

[Track Junky]

Sulking over new heads.......what's the world coming to? :rolleyes:

Not sulking over heads...sulking over what this is going to cost me with the addition of a belt drive. I'll never run a timing chain again.

[Track Junky]

Could be the worst thread jack in the history of the world. Just saying. :lol:

:yes: :lol:

[Sieg]

Not sulking over heads...sulking over what this is going to cost me with the addition of a belt drive. I'll never run a timing chain again.

Sorry......

[Track Junky]

Sorry......

I'll let you slide this one time :lol:

[intocarss]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/3fde5330copycopy.jpg

[ROBS6T8]

Wow G, I just read all 39 pages and I'll probably be late for work! Couldn't stop reading. I have a lot to learn. :hail:
Newman sent me over here to Lat G. Great site.
You're going to be at Buttonwillow in Sept. correct? Im looking forward to getting out there this year and meeting a few more members. It sounds like I missed a great time last year.
If you're there, can the wife still get a ride? One of the first ones so she doesn't walk away :brix: !
Hoping everything works out for you.

[Track Junky]

Hi Rob....yeah, I rarely if at all visit the PT forum anymore. Glad to hear your interested in coming to Buttonwillow this year. As long as me and the car are still in one piece I'd should be there. :thumbsup:

BTW, rendering looks great and a ride for the wife should be no prob.....I'll only need a couple of sessions to kick these guys asses :lol:

Seriously though, we will have alot of great competition out there this year....Todd ran really well last year as did Newman and Casanova.....Chad will be a big contender also if his car will be done in time and hopefully the Pozzi's make it out again this year. I'm sure we will have alot of other great talent out there and if all that are putting there cars together for this one make it I think we may have a few surprises ;)

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Not sulking over heads...sulking over what this is going to cost me with the addition of a belt drive. I'll never run a timing chain again.

someone call the waaaaabulance. :P

Hey, since your car is in the shop, can I do some more random work that you won't ever know about and attribute the faster times to your fantastic driving? Just wondering. Its a shame, its just sitting there. :D I promise I won't break anymore glass.

[Flash68]

I already had them and didn't know it until I called NYES and then confirmed part no stamp on heads :unibrow:

So what are the new heads? Spill it.

Sieg -- you are a piece of work my friend. :rofl:

[Ron in SoCal]

Hey, since your car is in the shop, can I do some more random work that you won't ever know about and attribute the faster times to your fantastic driving? Just wondering. Its a shame, its just sitting there. :D I promise I won't break anymore glass.

Just do it Vince. Big time will be fast no matter what..:thumbsup:

[Flash68]

Big time will be fast no matter what..:thumbsup:

Yep. And then his ego will rival Todd's. :lol:

[89 RS]

Yep. And then his ego will rival Todd's. :lol:

It's gettin' deep on here. :_paranoid

:lol:

[Ron in SoCal]

Yep. And then his ego will rival Todd's. :lol:

Unfortunately that ship's already sailed...:lol:

[intocarss]

It's gettin' deep on here. :_paranoid

:lol:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/boots.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/9ir3p3-1.gif

[Vegas69]

Unfortunately that ship's already sailed...:lol:

What he lacks in driving talent he makes up for in Italian. :D :lol: I got nothing on Gaetano. You guys are confusing confidence with ego. :unibrow:

[67zo6Camaro]

Seriously though, we will have alot of great competition out there this year....Todd ran really well last year as did Newman and Casanova.....Chad will be a big contender also if his car will be done in time and hopefully the Pozzi's make it out again this year. I'm sure we will have alot of other great talent out there and if all that are putting there cars together for this one make it I think we may have a few surprises ;)

Aw man... What no mention of the Fab53 Camaro? what do I have to do to get a little respect in this group. lol I guess I will just have to show up in Sept and put a good time down.:P

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Just do it Vince. Big time will be fast no matter what..:thumbsup:

specially if he's 50 lbs lighter....lol

[Flash68]

Aw man... What no mention of the Fab53 Camaro? what do I have to do to get a little respect in this group. lol I guess I will just have to show up in Sept and put a good time down.:P

Guess we'd need to see some ACSC-verified times to consider you legit. :lol:

specially if he's 50 lbs lighter....lol

Is that 25 for the man and 25 for the car? :unibrow:

[Track Junky]

someone call the waaaaabulance. :P

:D

Hey, since your car is in the shop, can I do some more random work that you won't ever know about and attribute the faster times to your fantastic driving? Just wondering. Its a shame, its just sitting there. :D I promise I won't break anymore glass.

True story guy's. Vince works on my car and upgrades things without telling me and I dont notice any changes sometimes till months later :lol:

So what are the new heads? Spill it.

Pay attention sonny :lol:

Just do it Vince. Big time will be fast no matter what..:thumbsup:

I can only hope. Thanks for the props :thumbsup:

What he lacks in driving talent he makes up for in Italian. :D :lol: I got nothing on Gaetano. You guys are confusing confidence with ego. :unibrow:

Your full of it. You can drive and you know it......just need to keep up with the times and build yourself a race car like everybody else is. And dont forget, being Italian makes me inherently fast :lol:

Aw man... What no mention of the Fab53 Camaro? what do I have to do to get a little respect in this group. lol I guess I will just have to show up in Sept and put a good time down.:P

Sorry Bret....maybe if you posted a little more I'd remember you were still around :lol:

Couple other mentions that I forgot.......Steven and Jon.....both guys were at Buttonwillow last year underpowered compared to the mentioned and laid down some very respectful lap times :thumbsup:

[ROBS6T8]

Hi Rob....yeah, I rarely if at all visit the PT forum anymore. Glad to hear your interested in coming to Buttonwillow this year. As long as me and the car are still in one piece I'd should be there. :thumbsup:

BTW, rendering looks great and a ride for the wife should be no prob.....I'll only need a couple of sessions to kick these guys asses :lol:

Seriously though, we will have alot of great competition out there this year....Todd ran really well last year as did Newman and Casanova.....Chad will be a big contender also if his car will be done in time and hopefully the Pozzi's make it out again this year. I'm sure we will have alot of other great talent out there and if all that are putting there cars together for this one make it I think we may have a few surprises ;)

I'm really looking forward to it. She will be done!! Heck, I need to get her done before Hot August Nights.

Thanks for the kind words on the rendering. I'm liking it and it's just that extra motivation to get out there and work on her.

I saw all the sh*t talking on the other Buttonwillow thread. Looks to be a lot of fun coming up in September. I'll be there.

Stay in one piece! :unibrow:

[coolwelder62]

:ttiwop:We need to see something.Maybe a new gas cap,anything.:lol:

[Track Junky]

Ok, Ok Scott......while we're in intermission here waiting for my heads to show up I'm going to trickle in vids from T-Hill one session at a time. Apologies for the camera angle in advance. :D

HxTgnV5JvlI (http://[YOUTUBE]HxTgnV5JvlI)

[Sieg]

HxTgnV5JvlI
I can actually contribute.........sometimes :lol:

[Track Junky]

Thanks Sieg!! :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

Here's session 2. Car was still pushing but I managed a 2:07.6

uYJktNaf2T8

[GregWeld]

Well..... I'm feeling a whole lot better about my driving right now! Thanks for posting!


:unibrow:

[Matt@BOS]

being Italian makes me inherently fast :lol:




Did you car forget that it was not also Italian when it broke down on you?

Matt

[67zo6Camaro]

Nice, very cool track. I watched both and felt like a kid in the back seat trying to lift my head up to see over the dash for a better view. And then, I realized I was hearing something. Go back and listen again. Did you hear that? Yes that.... kind of sounds like a timing chain. Im just saying....:rofl:

[Track Junky]

Well..... I'm feeling a whole lot better about my driving right now! Thanks for posting!


:unibrow:

It delights me to inspire you Greg :lol:

Did you car forget that it was not also Italian when it broke down on you?

Matt

Ah c'mon Matt....you could do better than that :lol:

Nice, very cool track. I watched both and felt like a kid in the back seat trying to lift my head up to see over the dash for a better view. And then, I realized I was hearing something. Go back and listen again. Did you hear that? Yes that.... kind of sounds like a timing chain. Im just saying....:rofl:

Yeah Bret.....I dont have much luck with the video thing......I usually bust out my 4' level to gauge camera height from the roll bar mount to the dash but slacked off this time.....Oh well, next time

......ohhh and the timing chain joke....not funny :lol:

[Track Junky]

OK guy's, here's session 3......lucky for you guy's its the last vid of the day......and no, the chain brake isn't in this vid......that was session 4.
Just a few laps in this one but the one where I got my fastest lap time of 2:04.9. Once again, apologies for the camera angle.....

KKsDHt92nzo

[Flash68]

Is that the Millenium Falcon replica you're driving or a Camaro? :unibrow:

And I think your Hyper Drive is not yet fully operational.

:woot:

[Track Junky]

Is that the Millenium Falcon replica you're driving or a Camaro? :unibrow:

And I think your Hyper Drive is not yet fully operational.

:woot:

I know, right? :lol:

I thought the vids sucked but I threw them out there anyways( :) smiley shrugging his shoulders).
At least I didn't pull a Weld and post a mirror image vid :lol:

[Flash68]

The vids are great man, now we know you ain't lying. :D Glad you finally a working video out of your arse. :lol:

[intocarss]

Cool videos of your warm up laps, Is there one of you at racing speeds?? :rofl:

BTW.. where is your Sfi jacket and gloves??

[Flash68]

Cool videos of your warm up laps, Is there one of you at racing speeds?? :rofl:

BTW.. where is your Sfi jacket and gloves??

:rofl:

Agreed on the safety stuff... G, you're going pretty dang fast for a t shirt and no gear.

[Track Junky]

Cool videos of your warm up laps, Is there one of you at racing speeds?? :rofl:

BTW.. where is your Sfi jacket and gloves??

:lol: Now that was good........

I left the jacket and gloves in my race car :lol:

[Track Junky]

On a serious note......I haven't spent a whole lot of time reviewing vids but the car did get better with every adjustment I made. By adjustments I mean tire pressure, shock adjustment, and rear roll center adjustment. My front tire temps up front were 7 degrees hotter on the outside then the inside and I had forgotten my alignment shims at home so I was stuck with that all day. The rear temps were hotter in the middle as I continued to take air out of them but wasn't adiment about it since the rear had plenty of grip. One key thing to remember on these track days in hot climates is that as the day goes on the sun heats the track and it seems difficult to keep up with tire pressures. The car is probably at about 80-85% adjustment wise and I think one or two more track days and she should hopefully be where I want her.

[gerno]

That first video is flat painful to listen to with the spoiler piece dragging. That had to be one of the longest laps for you. I would say the timing chain lap was the longest but sitting on the side watching others go by doesn't count.

[Track Junky]

The painfull part was trying to figure out what the hell I broke. Sounded a hell of alot worse than a spoiler brace.

[gerno]

I had the chrome trim fall off my grill leaving the dragstrip the other week and I could not stop the car fast enough to figure out the issue. I couldn't imagine having to complete a lap out there.

A while back Dave told me you were thinking of hitting the track again on the June 30 weekend. You think the car will be ready by then or you skipping to the Buttonwilow event? I'm trying to make the June 30 weekend assuming the new trans install goes well.

Steve

[Track Junky]

Unfortunately the engine issue set me back budget wise so it's straight to Buttonwillow from here unlesss I pick up a couple of nice remodels. Overhead is a bitch!! :rolleyes:

[GregWeld]

Unfortunately the engine issue set me back budget wise so it's straight to Buttonwillow from here unlesss I pick up a couple of nice remodels. Overhead is a bitch!! :rolleyes:

It's statements like these that make me so happy I'm retired!

Work sucked... and it interfered with my social life!


:wow: :lol:

[Track Junky]

It's statements like these that make me so happy I'm retired!

Work sucked... and it interfered with my social life!


:wow: :lol:

I just got nailed with too much this year.....truck engine and rental repairs along with a roof.......not to mention the fun stuff :unibrow:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Note to self; invoice 369 December 22nd. LOL

[GregWeld]

Note to self; invoice 369 December 22nd. LOL

PLUS 1 1/2% per month!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

See, that's why you make the big bucks! I love the way you think.

I still run ye ole way, when collecting interest was a crime punishable by death.

[Track Junky]

PLUS 1 1/2% per month!

Now was that necessary....Can you please leave your percentages input for the investor thread....sheesh :lol:

[Flash68]

Unfortunately the engine issue set me back budget wise so it's straight to Buttonwillow from here unlesss I pick up a couple of nice remodels. Overhead is a bitch!! :rolleyes:

Hey dude you still need to reschedule the "appointment" you bailed on to check out my deck.... that job could pay for a nice upgrade for ya... :unibrow:

[Track Junky]

Hey dude you still need to reschedule the "appointment" you bailed on to check out my deck.... that job could pay for a nice upgrade for ya... :unibrow:

Thanks Bro.....I'll call you Friday for a weekend visit?

[Flash68]

Thanks Bro.....I'll call you Friday for a weekend visit?

Make it the following weekend -- we move next Friday (as of now). :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

Sounds good...and Congrats :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

Hey dude you still need to reschedule the "appointment" you bailed on to check out my deck.... that job could pay for a nice upgrade for ya... :unibrow:

Tracky !!! Talk them into a 3000' x 3000' garage with a lift and a game room too

Congrats on your new house Dave

[Flash68]

Sounds good...and Congrats :thumbsup:

Tracky !!! Talk them into a 3000' x 3000' garage with a lift and a game room too

Congrats on your new house Dave

Thanks but save the congrats for when I'm closed and moved in. Nothing is 100% til it's done, but we're lookin good. :thumbsup:

And that garage and lift sound pretty good. But then there would be no Camaro to put inside. :lol:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Where did you end up, if you don't mind me asking.

[Flash68]

Where did you end up, if you don't mind me asking.

I expect to be moved to Orinda within 2 weeks.

[Flash68]

:thumbsup:

http://wheelsperformancecom.stores.yahoo.net/ourclchcawi1.html

[Track Junky]

Thanks Dave.....they mentioned they were going to put me in their gallery but after a couple months I didn't think it was going to happen.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

cool, but it looks very pixi

[89 RS]

Gotta be happy about that Gaetano. :thumbsup:
Nice work.

[intocarss]

:yes:

[Flash68]

Is this thing running yet? :unibrow:

[Track Junky]

Still waiting on my heads my friend. I told them I wasn't running my car again until September and I asked them to get me a little more flow out of those heads and they are going to throw me a bone as conselation for the broken chain but I'm paying for it in time.

[Ron in SoCal]

Free CNC port G? Nice bone! :cool:

[Track Junky]

Yeah, pretty cool of them but I imagine I would do the same thing if I sold an engine to a guy and the chain broke after 500 miles on the motor.

I'm hoping for a minimum of about 30 more hp. :unibrow:

[Ron in SoCal]

30 - 40 sounds about right :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

You're gonna wish it was 130 more. :lol:

[Track Junky]

All in good time I'm pretty sure I'll be making up that other 100 in weight loss :unibrow:

[sik68]

:thumbsup: Remember to subtract all your weight loss from the healthy living thread too

[67zo6Camaro]

All in good time I'm pretty sure I'll be making up that other 100 in weight loss :unibrow:

Wow, we are all on diets. What program are you using? - Jenny Craig? - Weight Watchers? - Remove and patch? - Acid dip? :unibrow:

[Track Junky]

:thumbsup: Remember to subtract all your weight loss from the healthy living thread too

Wont really be losing much there. Just taking weight from the mid section and distributing it in other areas. :lol:

Wow, we are all on diets. What program are you using? - Jenny Craig? - Weight Watchers? - Remove and patch? - Acid dip? :unibrow:

Well, if you have to know, I have a set of fiberglass doors I'd like to throw on for next season. :unibrow:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Still waiting on my heads my friend. I told them I wasn't running my car again until September and I asked them to get me a little more flow out of those heads and they are going to throw me a bone as conselation for the broken chain but I'm paying for it in time.

I see a late night thrash in your future.

[Flash68]

I see a late night thrash in your future.

Sept 13? :_paranoid

[Track Junky]

I see a late night thrash in your future.

Same thing has been crossing my mind. Feel like I'm starting to get to old for any more of those...:rolleyes:.
I'll be wrapping a job up tomorrow and then I need to do some landscape work at my place that might take a couple weeks by the time I get the landscape plan laid out and work completed. After that I plan on spending a couple of weeks down there. See ya soon :thumbsup:

Sept 13? :_paranoid

Your killing me Dave :lol: . God, I hope not :rolleyes: .

[intocarss]

Get out in the garage old man!!! if I was closer I'd be wrenching rt along side of ya till 5 am!!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Same thing has been crossing my mind. Feel like I'm starting to get to old for any more of those...:rolleyes:.
I'll be wrapping a job up tomorrow and then I need to do some landscape work at my place that might take a couple weeks by the time I get the landscape plan laid out and work completed. After that I plan on spending a couple of weeks down there. See ya soon :thumbsup:



Your killing me Dave :lol: . God, I hope not :rolleyes: .

Good, that will give me time to catch up. We are slammed and will be more slammeder by then. But lets not get too close to bingo please.

See you August 10th fo sho tho. I'll put you to work that weekend too. Hey Jer, theres only two things Gaetano does at 5am and you don't want to be there to witness either. :rofl:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Battery supports are welded in and just need to get the battery tray cut out and mounted.

Still throwing ideas around for the battery hold down.

[intocarss]

Good, that will give me time to catch up. We are slammed and will be more slammeder by then. But lets not get too close to bingo please.

See you August 10th fo sho tho. I'll put you to work that weekend too. Hey Jer, theres only two things Gaetano does at 5am and you don't want to be there to witness either. :rofl:

Thanks for the warning Vince :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

Battery supports are welded in and just need to get the battery tray cut out and mounted.

Still throwing ideas around for the battery hold down.

Pat tells me heads are done, Pan shows up this week. I was supposed to order my Xceldyne belt drive Friday but then Dave sent me a link on a Jesel belt drive deal. I sent an e-mail out to the guy and am waiting on a response.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Pat tells me heads are done, Pan shows up this week. I was supposed to order my Xceldyne belt drive Friday but then Dave sent me a link on a Jesel belt drive deal. I sent an e-mail out to the guy and am waiting on a response.


Used part?

I have 2 jobs coming in next week so I might be tied up a bit.

[intocarss]

A used Jesel is good, Just get a new belt so you know where you're at

[Flash68]

it comes with a new belt.

[Track Junky]

Yup.....used. Comes with box, directions, spanner wrench, torx socket, with new belt, new oil seals, all three shims, and carbon fiber cover.

[intocarss]

it comes with a new belt.

Then LETS RACE!!

[Track Junky]

I have 2 jobs coming in next week so I might be tied up a bit.

No worries. Probably be a couple of weeks before I have everthing. I'll have to dig up a degree wheel to dial in cam install and a tool to drive crank gear on. If I have all that shouldn't take more than a day to throw motor together. Adjust valves and drop her in next depending on distractions and how motivated I'm feeling. :D

[intocarss]

Bump :_paranoid

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/No_Whining_Sign_400x3001.jpg

[Track Junky]

Nice sign Jer :lol: .

Car is sitting at Vinces shop right now. I have the new oil pan and heads were delivered last week but I haven't picked up a belt drive yet.

Once I get the belt drive and gaskets I'll be able to put her back together but budget and other priorities are taking place at this time so unfortunately she'll have to wait. :(

Thanks for asking buddy :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

Nice sign Jer :lol: .

Car is sitting at Vinces shop right now. I have the new oil pan and heads were delivered last week but I haven't picked up a belt drive yet.

Once I get the belt drive and gaskets I'll be able to put her back together but budget and other priorities are taking place at this time so unfortunately she'll have to wait. :(

Thanks for asking buddy :thumbsup:

It's okay bro... 2013 will be our year. :D

[Vegas69]

I'm starting to think I'll have my NEXT car on the road before you gabroni's. :unibrow:

[intocarss]

I'm starting to think I'll have my NEXT car on the road before you gabroni's. :unibrow: And the NEXT one after that! I'd also bet that the person that buys "PayBack" will have more seat time then these two by then :D

[sokoloka]

Absolutely LOVE this car Gaetano! Inspiration for my next build.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

It's okay bro... 2013 will be our year. :D

That's if we are all still here. LOL

[Track Junky]

It's okay bro... 2013 will be our year. :D

I'm starting to think I'll have my NEXT car on the road before you gabroni's. :unibrow:

Absolutely LOVE this car Gaetano! Inspiration for my next build.


That's if we are all still here. LOL

Thanks for the support guy's!! Buttonwillow wouldn't have been the same without you guys anyways. At least the year wasn't a total loss.....I got 3 quality test and tune days in at T-Hill not to mention hanging with Dave and getting to meet Greg and Charlie at Sonoma. :thumbsup:

Eric, forgot to bring my camera to the Bay Area last week but I'm back home now and will be back in the Bay Area next week again. I'll try and get some vid to you next week.

[sokoloka]

Eric, forgot to bring my camera to the Bay Area last week but I'm back home now and will be back in the Bay Area next week again. I'll try and get some vid to you next week.

No worries Gaetano - take your time! I appreciate it.

[intocarss]

Bump :yes:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

You didn't see the web cam link on my facebook page?

[intocarss]

You didn't see the web cam link on my facebook page?

NO.. Just some cool pics of the shuttle :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

NO.. Just some cool pics of the shuttle :thumbsup:

Yaa, that was a great day. The look on my boys face when he saw the 747 buzz the mountain top will be etched in my vision forever.

[intocarss]

Yaa, that was a great day. The look on my boys face when he saw the 747 buzz the mountain top will be etched in my vision forever.

THAT'S WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT ..I forwarded you an e mail of the shuttle landing at LAX

[Track Junky]

Been busy with relocating and work.

Books closed on my car for the rest of this year. If all goes well I'm hoping to get back to T-Hill next season and work on shaving a few more seconds off my lap times. Also, I have around 170 lbs of weight savings thats sitting around that needs to be painted and installed.

Stopped by Vinces shop a couple of weeks ago and he installed a custom toe hook that he made for the rear of my car. It's very cool looking and if I had my camera i would have taken some pic's.

Thanks Vince, appreciate it. :thumbsup:

[sixnina]

Any updates Gateano?
Shane

[intocarss]

Any updates Gateano?
Shane

vsNR9FnxOdY
:hello:

[sixnina]

vsNR9FnxOdY
:hello:

Lol I guess that pretty much explains it!
Shane

[Track Junky]

Thanks for asking guys. All parts and pieces are in for the motor. The motor is at Vinces shop about 2 hours away and I have been super busy with work. Too beat on Saturdays to do anything at all and have been spending time with the family on Sundays. Even squeezed a couple days of sno-boarding in. :thumbsup: I got started on the motor a few weeks ago but didn't have time to finish.
Vince has been buried also so he hasn't been able to do his end of the work either. My sway bar is connected to the body of the car and the sheetmetal on the body has torn. Vince is going to weld the sheetmetal back together and then make a support brace for the sway bar. Once he completes that he is going to make my existing sway bar adjustable. Once thats done he's going to install an upper eyelet mount for the rear shocks I will be getting. Cant order the shocks until the motor is in, car is corner weighted, and we've calculated motion ratios.
Goal is to have it ready for the NASA Thunderhill event on May 18th so we still have time.

[GregWeld]

Scroll up and read your title on this thread....




:action-smiley-027: :hello:

[Track Junky]

Scroll up and read your title on this thread....




:action-smiley-027: :hello:

Thats funny. I was thinking the same thing as I was finishing typing.

[Flash68]

Plan your work and work your plan. :rules:

:D

[intocarss]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/lilNacho22.jpg

[Sieg]

Plan your work and work your plan. :rules:
Speaking of plan.......have you considered using a Year-at-a-Glance planner instead of a Decade-at-a-Glance? :D

[Track Junky]

With the May Thunderhill event coming up and realizing that driving two hours to Vince's shop to work on my motor wasn't going to happen I drove down to the shop last week and picked up my motor and all the parts and pieces to put her back together.
I mentioned that I would never go back to a timing chain after breaking one at T-Hill last May so I picked up an Xceldyne belt drive. It was the first time for me ever installing a belt drive but the directions were well written and the quality of the parts and pieces were top knotch.
Got the belt drive installed and heads torqued down this weekend.


http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Engine%20Rebuild%202013/EngineRebuils20132006.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Engine%20Rebuild%202013/EngineRebuils20132001.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Engine%20Rebuild%202013/EngineRebuild3-16-13410.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Engine%20Rebuild%202013/EngineRebuild3-16-13409.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Engine%20Rebuild%202013/EngineRebuild3-16-13408.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Engine%20Rebuild%202013/EngineRebuild3-16-13407.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Engine%20Rebuild%202013/EngineRebuild3-16-13406.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Engine%20Rebuild%202013/EngineRebuild3-16-13404.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Engine%20Rebuild%202013/EngineRebuild3-16-13403.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Engine%20Rebuild%202013/EngineRebuild3-16-13402.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Engine%20Rebuild%202013/EngineRebuild3-16-13401.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Engine%20Rebuild%202013/EngineRebuild3-16-13400.jpg

[Sieg]

Nice bottom end! :unibrow:

[Cole]

Nice bottom end! :unibrow:

That doesn't sound very proper....

[intocarss]

You're looking real racy now

[Track Junky]

Nice bottom end! :unibrow:

That doesn't sound very proper....

You're looking real racy now

Nice, not very proper, and racy........I can live with that. Kind of like how I liked my women..........well, back in the day anyways. :D

Anyhow, In my efforts to try and get the rear of my car to rotate I asked Vince to make a slider clamp for my rear Hotchkis sway bar so that I can make it adjustable. Vince has sent a computer drafted design of the sliders to the water jet guy. He sent me an e-mail of the design and if I can figure out how to post from e-mail I will. Basically just a block of billet aluminum with a hole in it the same diameter of the bar that will wrap around the sway bar with two bolts on the bottom to sinch it to the bar and a heim joint connection on top. Hard to believe I couldn't just find one on line. BMW has a custom sway bar set up with the sliders but they wouldn't seperate the sliders and heim joint set up from the bar. Should be pretty neat and I'm looking forward to putting it to work.

[Flash68]

Cool on the belt! Who needs a stinkin gear?

He sent me an e-mail of the design and if I can figure out how to post from e-mail I will.

Forward me the email and I will post it up.

[Beach Cruiser]

I checked out the local shop that was running Camaros and BMWS in the Contential tire series not to long ago. They had the coolest set up for in car adjustable sway bars. Basically the swaybar arms are square, but more like flatbar stock. They have a system to rotate the arm from the drivers seat so that if they stand the arm up complety vertical its the stiffest, and if it's rotated flat (180 degs) its at its softest. So, the arm not the bar is adjusted for the stiffness, all from the drivers seat!

[chetly]

are you talking about a blade, something like this?
http://ankenyracingenterprises.com/images/May%2009%20swaybar%20002.JPG

[Track Junky]

Basically will look like this.

http://www.awrracing.com/images/parts/04-3303-aw.jpg (http://www.awrracing.com/pages/pro/prosusp.html#swaybars)


The slider clamp will allow me to slide up and down the sway bar arm. The shorter the arm, the stiffer the setting. The clamp Vince is making wont be a two piece though, will be thicker, and have the two sinch bolts lined up horizontally at the bottom.

http://www.awrracing.com/images/sway_end_linkclose.jpg