Budget '69 Camaro Track Car - NO WHINERS!

[Track Junky]

No worries, nylocks are in place along with nylon washers. :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

Looks great man. Air box is clean. Now you ready for go time?

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Looks great man. Air box is clean. Now you ready for go time?

oh, its go time

http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr106/cyanstudios/Random/its-go-time.jpg

http://www.shakadula.com/p90x/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/gotime.jpg

[Track Junky]

Thanks Dave. Lets just say it's going to be interesting.

How's August 3rd looking for you at Sonoma?

[Track Junky]

oh, its go time

http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr106/cyanstudios/Random/its-go-time.jpg

http://www.shakadula.com/p90x/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/gotime.jpg

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Flash68]

Thanks Dave. Lets just say it's going to be interesting.

How's August 3rd looking for you at Sonoma?


Me? pretty good.

Car? Not so much.

[Track Junky]

Bring a brain bucket. We'll give Weld a handicap and throw some weight in my car.

[89 RS]

Well I kind of feel bad posting this only because I know there are a few people around here waiting for a truck load of big ticket items to be delivered and this is the last piece of the puzzle for me for now but here it is. Hood to air box seal showed up today from McMaster-Carr. I now have a positive seal around the air cleaner. Grand total for a minimum of 10' buy in..........35 bucks. :hapdance:


Big ticket items?? I've got to live vicariously through everybody else right now. Gaetano, you just got a new engine man, I'd say that's up there with big ticket items in my book. Air box seal looks good, to me the little details are just as cool as the big stuff.

[intocarss]

Well I kind of feel bad posting this only because I know there are a few people around here waiting for a truck load of big ticket items to be delivered and this is the last piece of the puzzle for me for now but here it is. Hood to air box seal showed up today from McMaster-Carr. I now have a positive seal around the air cleaner. Grand total for a minimum of 10' buy in..........35 bucks. :hapdance:

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Hoodtoaircleanerseal003.jpg LOOKS GREAT TRACKY, WHERE OR WHO MADE THE PAN ITSELF??

[Flash68]

Big ticket items?? I've got to live vicariously through everybody else right now. Gaetano, you just got a new engine man, I'd say that's up there with big ticket items in my book. Air box seal looks good, to me the little details are just as cool as the big stuff.

Yeah what he said. :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Big ticket items?? I've got to live vicariously through everybody else right now. Gaetano, you just got a new engine man, I'd say that's up there with big ticket items in my book. Air box seal looks good, to me the little details are just as cool as the big stuff.
Just to clarify, this is not a new engine, just a freshen up with new valves and a timing belt drive set up. : )

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Me neither Jer....it's on the list of things to do. I have the new 6AL box that MSD just came out with. It's a plug in deal and comes with extra wiring for longer runs. Eventually I will install it inside the car.





I promise I'll get you guys some vids. Between work, family, and the car things have been real busy. I'll be picking the car up this Saturday. Hoping to get the dyno vid at that time. I'll ask Vince to vid the fire up session before loading it in the trailor. Hell, if he'll let me I'll spin some brodies in the parking lot before she loads. :unibrow:



The air box is carbon fiber and came with a lid. It's one of those deals you'd see on a K&N or ARCA series car. I've was using it with the lid but this time around we installed a 2" HVH carb spacer so the hood wouldn't close with the lid. A few modifications later we were able to still use the pan. Now we just need to find or get the box to hood sealer.

LOOKS GREAT TRACKY, WHERE OR WHO MADE THE PAN ITSELF??. Picked it up from eBay. We had to modify it to work with the 2" spacer Joe the dyno guy added.

It was a 2 piece, we pulled the lid off and cut the lip off of the base to meet the hood line.
Maybe if you can find some one to make one I can provide a mold.

[89 RS]

Just to clarify, this is not a new engine, just a freshen up with new valves and a timing belt drive set up. : )

It's all good. :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

Just to clarify, this is not a new engine, just a freshen up with new valves and a timing belt drive set up. : )

suuuuurrrrre it is.

[Track Junky]

suuuuurrrrre it is.

As much as I enjoy keeping Dave scratching his head the truth is the only work done to the heads were new valves and springs. We added the belt drive and retarded cam timing a bit to pick up a little more torque down low. Didn't touch the bottom end of the motor.

Guess I'm going to have to post the "obligatory" dyno sheet. Soon as I can remember where I put it I'll post it. Trust me.....it's not that impressive.

[Flash68]

Guess I'm going to have to post the "obligatory" dyno sheet. Soon as I can remember where I put it I'll post it. Trust me.....it's not that impressive.

All the better when you whoop some ass of those with more power. :headscratch:

[FETorino]

As much as I enjoy keeping Dave scratching his head the truth is the only work done to the heads were new valves and springs. We added the belt drive and retarded cam timing a bit to pick up a little more torque down low. Didn't touch the bottom end of the motor.

Guess I'm going to have to post the "obligatory" dyno sheet. Soon as I can remember where I put it I'll post it. Trust me.....it's not that impressive.

Trust me, it's impressive, it is in a complete and running car. That is impressive. :D

The airbox looks sweet btw......

[Track Junky]

All the better when you whoop some ass of those with more power. :headscratch:

I keep trying to tell you.....It's all about weight and tires. Hell, those Miatas are only a second or so slower than I am and probably a third of the horse power.

Trust me, it's impressive, it is in a complete and running car. That is impressive. :D

The airbox looks sweet btw......

Thanks Rob. Truth is I dont have the patience to drag a build out like you guys do. If I skipped this season I could have installled a chicane set up for front coil overs, painted and installed my fiberglass doors and rear aluminum deck lid, and installed another cam per my new engine builders recommendations but all that will wait till next season. I'm ready to go play.

[intocarss]

. Picked it up from eBay. We had to modify it to work with the 2" spacer Joe the dyno guy added.

It was a 2 piece, we pulled the lid off and cut the lip off of the base to meet the hood line.
Maybe if you can find some one to make one I can provide a mold.

Thank you, I have a place to build one and a mold may be nice to copy from

[sixnina]

Thank you, I have a place to build one and a mold may be nice to copy from

I second that! Also interested as well!
Thanks Shane

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Thank you, I have a place to build one and a mold may be nice to copy from

I second that! Also interested as well!
Thanks Shane

what about a sheet metal piece, would you guys be interested in that in .060 or .090 6061? I'll check with my laser cutter. He has been slammed with Tesla contract work so I hope he can squeeze this in.

[Track Junky]

First dyno on a DTS 4000 back in May of 2010. Timing at 37. We did another pull with timing at 39 which bumped hp to 620 and dropped torque to 560.
Joe told me they put way to much timing into it.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/DynoSheets2001.jpg

[Track Junky]

Latest Dyno on a Superflow. Timing at 32.5.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/DynoSheets2002.jpg

[Ron in SoCal]

Gaetano any insight on the changes to your motor and the difference in dyno numbers, other than timing and different dynos/days? That almost looks like you changed/advanced your cam...

[intocarss]

what about a sheet metal piece, would you guys be interested in that in .060 or .090 6061? I'll check with my laser cutter. He has been slammed with Tesla contract work so I hope he can squeeze this in. Sounds good just let me know how much $ before hand. Thank you

[Vegas69]

You better fix your oiling issue or you are going to end up with nice coffee table for a block.

[Track Junky]

Gaetano any insight on the changes to your motor and the difference in dyno numbers, other than timing and different dynos/days? That almost looks like you changed/advanced your cam...

The motor definitely pulls harder down low now. After that little burnout video Vince posted I was curious on why the car launched so hard and left such dark marks on the asphalt. I checked rear tire air pressures and they were at 15 lbs. Obviously due to the car sitting for so long.

Thinking back, when we dynoed at NYES we only spent about 30 minutes on the dyno. Dont think those guys wanted to spend the time tuning other than playing with the distributor and we made two pulls. Cam was degreed with #1 intake at 106*. We made a pull with the timing at 37* and the other at 39*. When I told Joe about that he said that was way too much timing for a large C.I. small block which kind of made sense to me because my 350's always liked 36* and the 383 liked 34*.

The most recent dyno session the first thing Joe was looking for was where the motor liked total timing and after a few pulls Joe said 32.5. Then we started playing with cam timing. Pulls were made with #1 intake at 104, 106, and 108. All this did was move the power curve up and down the rpm range but it pretty much stayed the same so I opted for retarding cam 2* from where NYES originally set it to 108 which kicked peak torque to a lower rpm but left peak hp at 6300 rpm. Figured that I might pull harder coming out of the corners which is where I want to pick up my lap times. It only kicks peak torque in 300 rpm sooner. Not sure how much difference this is going to make yet and I may not even notice. One thing we didn't do was make a pull after rechecking valve lash at the end of the day. The lash grew quite a bit and Joe readjusted lash .002 smaller than cam specs recommend so the cam was probably alot smaller during the pulls which makes me think the motor is making a touch more power judging by the torque numbers. I should have pushed for another pull after we reset lash but after 6 hours I think Joe accomplished what he wanted to and was ready to get out of there.

He says he's built a similar motor before and can get me another 50 hp with a smaller duration cam but I'm not sure I need to go there. I'd rather not add work to the valve train and I honestly dont think it is hp that wins the race as opposed to reducing weight, tuning the suspension, and spending a little wheel time.

[Track Junky]

You better fix your oiling issue or you are going to end up with nice coffee table for a block.

I was wondering about that myself. Not sure why the oil pressures look so much better on the first dyno sheet.

[Sieg]

You better fix your oiling issue or you are going to end up with nice coffee table for a block.
Nice catch.

GC - What changed that would influence the pressure or pressure numbers?

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Nice catch.

GC - What changed that would influence the pressure or pressure numbers?

with RPM, my gut is telling me oil pump clearences.

After this season its gonna get gone through again.

Gae, when you dyno'ed what filter was used and was the bypass in the block?

[Track Junky]

Nice catch.

GC - What changed that would influence the pressure or pressure numbers?

I just got off the phone with Joe. If you look at coolant temps they are alot cooler on the first dyno. Cooler temps will give you higher pressures......on the same note the pressures shown on the second dyno sheet do make me a bit weary but Joe assured me that if there was an issue he would have caught it and that if I was running this way before most likely nothing has changed on the bottom end. Especially after 23 pulls with consistent readings and power.
T-Hill will be the ultimate test on this motor this weekend as weather has been forecasted for 100 plus temperatures.

[Track Junky]

with RPM, my gut is telling me oil pump clearences.

After this season its gonna get gone through again.

Gae, when you dyno'ed what filter was used and was the bypass in the block?

Cant remember brand of filter and yes the bypass was in.

[Sieg]

with RPM, my gut is telling me oil pump clearances.

After this season its gonna get gone through again.

Gae, when you dyno'ed what filter was used and was the bypass in the block?

I just got off the phone with Joe. If you look at coolant temps they are alot cooler on the first dyno. Cooler temps will give you higher pressures......on the same note the pressures shown on the second dyno sheet do make me a bit weary but Joe assured me that if there was an issue he would have caught it and that if I was running this way before most likely nothing has changed on the bottom end. Especially after 23 pulls with consistent readings and power.
T-Hill will be the ultimate test on this motor this weekend as weather has been forecasted for 100 plus temperatures.
Makes sense on both counts. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

I was wondering about that myself. Not sure why the oil pressures look so much better on the first dyno sheet.Did you change pushrods, pan, p/u and lifters? I too think that 45 psi is a little low on a road race eng @ that RPM, just remember


"Oil pressure and oil volume are 2 different things. As long as the oil supply gets where it needs to go at a given pressure, more pressure is just more strain on components"

[Track Junky]

Did you change pushrods, pan, p/u and lifters? I too think that 45 psi is a little low on a road race eng @ that RPM, just remember


"Oil pressure and oil volume are 2 different things. As long as the oil supply gets where it needs to go at a given pressure, more pressure is just more strain on components"

I changed pushrods and pan. Pan was the same one as I had last time so I didn't change p/u.

I'm going to run the temps up as soon as it dries up outside and see how the pressures look.

[intocarss]

I changed pushrods and pan. Pan was the same one as I had last time so I didn't change p/u.

I'm going to run the temps up as soon as it dries up outside and see how the pressures look.

Don't forget that gauges can read differently too + you can't read volume on a gauge.. Just keep an eye on it. A lot of people like to pull the pan after a dyno and read the bearings, I know it's a pain, but you may want to take a look at the bearings that will tell you a lot. , your dyno guy knows his stuff, I'd say you're safe.

I know you know...change the filter it's easy and cheap. Hope it's not a FRAM We had a lot of problems with those after that Co took Fram over. Switch brands if it is I like K&N or Wixs or get a reuesable filter like a systems 1 or?? I had an oberg I liked it, I took it apart and had a look all the time

[Track Junky]

Running a System One adapter and remote filter system with 12 an lines. I agree.....pressures look low and they even seem lower on the gauge than before. Theres only one thing I can think of right now that would have changed that and it would be pan to p/u clearance. Not sure why that would have changed though.
I'm just going to have to take it easy on the track the first couple of sessions and just watch the oil pressure gauge. I'm going to ask Dave to let me run in a slower group for the first couple of sessions.

[Flash68]

So how did Joe try total timing at on your latest dyno session? How high did he go before reverting back to 32.5?

That is a huge difference to go from 37 to 32.5 for a 23* head. Timing is largely based on the efficiency of the head's combustion chamber, but you did not change heads, so I am confused.

I don't think I've seen a 23* head with such low total timing.

[Vegas69]

What is being done to control windage? Are you running a windage tray? Have you tried dropping the oil level say a quart?

I wouldn't even race it until you figure it out. Losing 15 lbs of oil pressure from 3000 to 6500 rpm means you have a serious issue. With an oil temp of only 174 on the dyno, it's going to be worse on the track. Especially if it's a windage issue which it almost certainly has to be.

Oil pressure should climb with rpm.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/Payback1969/ZL1DynoGraph_0001.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/Payback1969/media/ZL1DynoGraph_0001.jpg.html)

[Vince@Meanstreets]

thanks Todd, we'll look into it and report what we find.

Im going to speak to Joe and Gaetano later. I want to find out what oil was being used and the level. The level may have been incorrect.

[sixnina]

what about a sheet metal piece, would you guys be interested in that in .060 or .090 6061? I'll check with my laser cutter. He has been slammed with Tesla contract work so I hope he can squeeze this in.

0.60 sounds good Vince. Just let me know also what it will cost.
Thanks Shane

[Track Junky]

So how did Joe try total timing at on your latest dyno session? How high did he go before reverting back to 32.5?

That is a huge difference to go from 37 to 32.5 for a 23* head. Timing is largely based on the efficiency of the head's combustion chamber, but you did not change heads, so I am confused.

I don't think I've seen a 23* head with such low total timing.

I agree, definitely a huge difference but one that I was happy to see. I'm not an engine builder so I cant give you an educated answer to your question. All I know is the first thing we worked on was ignition timing. Joe would make an adjustment, we's make a couple pulls, and then repeat until Joe liked it

What is being done to control windage? Are you running a windage tray? Have you tried dropping the oil level say a quart?

I wouldn't even race it until you figure it out. Losing 15 lbs of oil pressure from 3000 to 6500 rpm means you have a serious issue. With an oil temp of only 174 on the dyno, it's going to be worse on the track. Especially if it's a windage issue which it almost certainly has to be.

Oil pressure should climb with rpm.

Pan uses a screen for windage. Good call on dropping a quart. I know for a fact we had 7 quarts in a 6 quart pan and that was my decision only because I'm afraid of sucking air when on the track due to this happening to me before but with a different pan. When I get a chance I'm going to drain the oil and refill with 6 quarts but before I do I'll record rpm's and oil prssure the way it is and then record oil pressures with 6 quarts. If this doesn't remedy the issue I will probably cancel the track day.
Thanks for your input Todd.

[Track Junky]

I took some oil pressure readings but went with water temps beause I am now using the oil temp bung in the pan for the dip stick.

Initial start up cold at 1000 rpm was at 68 lbs
Temp at 180, rpm 750, oil pressure 53 lbs
Temp 190, rpm 750, oil pressure 52 lbs
Temp 200, rpm 750, oil pressure 48 lbs
Temp 205, rpm 6300 and held for a few seconds, oil pressure 62 lbs

I asked Joe why the difference in readings and he said because the dyno was running the engine through an oil cooler and it had an adjustable flow restrictor.

Needless to say I am now relieved.

[Sieg]

Not much worse than Gearhead Hypochondriasis...........not that I would know much about it. :sarcasm_smiley:

I worry more about potential mechanical issues with the Camaro than waiting melanoma biopsy results. :sieg:

Hopefully that's all it was, to be safe don't drop your guard.

[waynieZ]

Glad to hear it was something simple.

[Track Junky]

I worry more about potential mechanical issues with the Camaro than waiting melanoma biopsy results. :sieg:

Hopefully that's all it was, to be safe don't drop your guard.

I know exactly what your talking about Sieg. This is what seperates us car guys from the rest........sometimes I wonder about my priorities :headscratch:

Glad to hear it was something simple.

Thanks Wayne. I appreciate that. Hope things are going better for you. :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

and here i was getting ready to tear it apart thursday afternoon and have it ready by friday night. I guess its date night.

thanks for looking out guys.

[Vegas69]

I took some oil pressure readings but went with water temps beause I am now using the oil temp bung in the pan for the dip stick.

Initial start up cold at 1000 rpm was at 68 lbs
Temp at 180, rpm 750, oil pressure 53 lbs
Temp 190, rpm 750, oil pressure 52 lbs
Temp 200, rpm 750, oil pressure 48 lbs
Temp 205, rpm 6300 and held for a few seconds, oil pressure 62 lbs

I asked Joe why the difference in readings and he said because the dyno was running the engine through an oil cooler and it had an adjustable flow restrictor.

Needless to say I am now relieved.

Good to see your oil pressure is where it belongs. The explanation Joe gave you doesn't make any sense to me. Wouldn't that limit max oil pressure, not having it fall off with an RPM increase?

In regards to your extra quart. That was a good band aid for poor oil control with windage as your side effect. I wouldn't do it on this setup if it's a quality pan. Windage is BAD.

Needless to say, track test it and look when everything is HOT.

[Sieg]

Gae - You run a remote filter system on the car.......what filtering were they using on the dyno?

[Track Junky]

Good to see your oil pressure is where it belongs. The explanation Joe gave you doesn't make any sense to me. Wouldn't that limit max oil pressure, not having it fall off with an RPM increase?

In regards to your extra quart. That was a good band aid for poor oil control with windage as your side effect. I wouldn't do it on this setup if it's a quality pan. Windage is BAD.

Needless to say, track test it and look when everything is HOT.

I hear what your saying......I imagine if I were in charge I would have opted to adjust for more oil pressure. My position on dyno day was to trust what he was doing. This wont be my last go around with Joe.....I'll get a better explanation when I talk to him again.

As far as the extra quart this is my view and please correct me if it doesn't make sense......I filled the pan with 7 quarts of water before I installed it just to see how close to the crank it would be. Water level came up even with the windage screen. My thoughts were if I'm up in the rpm's all the time how much oil is left in the pan?.....especially at the end of a long straightaway before coming into an uphill left handed corner(which is how I retired a rod bearing on my last motor).

[Track Junky]

Gae - You run a remote filter system on the car.......what filtering were they using on the dyno?

This is the best pic I can find so far that describes the set up. We put a sandwich adaptor on to the block and then connected the oil in/out lines to the adaptor. Oil filter was screwd into the adaptor. Let me see if I could find any more pics.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/EngineDyno5.jpg

[Sieg]

Is there any way your filtering setup on dyno could cause the reduced upper rpm oil pressure? :sieg:

[Track Junky]

Is there any way your filtering setup on dyno could cause the reduced upper rpm oil pressure? :sieg:

Thats a question for the pros my friend but if I heard it correctly I could swear I heard Joe say that he had the ability to adjust flow. I may have heard it wrong and Todd's right, that doesn't make sense. I'm going to give him a call.

[DaleTx]

Well I kind of feel bad posting this only because I know there are a few people around here waiting for a truck load of big ticket items to be delivered and this is the last piece of the puzzle for me for now but here it is. Hood to air box seal showed up today from McMaster-Carr. I now have a positive seal around the air cleaner. Grand total for a minimum of 10' buy in..........35 bucks. :hapdance:

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Hoodtoaircleanerseal003.jpg

Gaetano... I like the your design of the cold air/cowel induction set up. It looks better that shape than round. Is it attached to the firewall or does it come up short of the firewall? I was just wondering what you did in the back, I can't tell from the picture. I'm thinking of copying your design... looks good and functional to.

It looks like you added some extra holes in the hood to pick up more air too... good idea.

[Track Junky]

Gaetano... I like the your design of the cold air/cowel induction set up. It looks better that shape than round. Is it attached to the firewall or does it come up short of the firewall? I was just wondering what you did in the back, I can't tell from the picture. I'm thinking of copying your design... looks good and functional to.

It looks like you added some extra holes in the hood to pick up more air too... good idea.

Thanks Dale. There is a sheetmetal piece that Vince fabbed up that completes the connection to the firewall. We had been using it with the lid set up and needs to be cut down a bit. I forgot to bring it home from the shop.

Funny you mentioned the holes. I didn't really notice them until you pointed them out. I'll have to see if they actually do aid in introducing air into the box. :headscratch:

[Vegas69]

I'd start with what the pan was engineered to hold as windage is no bueno. Jason Pettis made a point to tell me never to over fill my crank case for that exact reason. If you are running out of pressure on long sweepers, it's time for a better pan or accumulator, not more oil.:D

[GregWeld]

Accumulator --- easy to plumb... and will protect your oil pressure.

I close the valve to mine before shutting down -- and open it before starting to create oil pressure. At least that's the way Charley told me to do it.

[Track Junky]

I'd start with what the pan was engineered to hold as windage is no bueno. Jason Pettis made a point to tell me never to over fill my crank case for that exact reason. If you are running out of pressure on long sweepers, it's time for a better pan or accumulator, not more oil.:D

Accumulator --- easy to plumb... and will protect your oil pressure.

I close the valve to mine before shutting down -- and open it before starting to create oil pressure. At least that's the way Charley told me to do it.

Can you set an accumulator up to introduce oil at a specified oil pressure? Once that oil is introduced into the system does it retrieve it back when pressures are adequate?

[Vegas69]

You can set them up with a solenoid so they only open below a set pressure. That's for a street car to solve the hastle of opening and closing a manual valve. I ran a manual valve on my car and left it close on the street. (Mixed the oil up once in a while to burn off moisture) I'd then just open it on track days and rev up the engine an close it at the end of the day. Beat the ever living crap out of my car and never had an engine problem. That and a great engine builder. :beathorse

[Track Junky]

So with a manual set up how did it know when to introduce the oil? And once it introduced the oil how did it know when to return the oil back to the canister?

[Track Junky]

Moroso's Accumulator is connected to the pressure side of the engine's oiling system. When the engine is running, oil pressure forces reserve oil into the accumulator and compresses the air ahead. If oil pressure should suddenly drop because of hard acceleration, severe cornering or hard braking, the air pressure immediately sends oil to the main galleries. When the danger is over and the pump is once again primed with oil, the oil pressure forces oil back into the Accumulator where it is ready for the next emergency.
Moroso has 3 types of Accumulators. There is the original Accumulator which can be used for street or track. The Heavy Duty Accumulator is designed for extreme applications and all-out competition. The Accumulator 2 is highly recommended for light-duty applications including small-displacement street performance and mild off-road vehicles. All are available in a 1.5-quart version while the Accumulator and Heavy Duty Accumulator also have a 3-quart version. The 1.5-quart version is perfect for small displacement and 4- and 6-cylinder engines while the 3-quart is for 8+ cylinder applications. Moroso Accumulators come with a manual ball valve (except Accumulator 2), unlike competing models.
Moroso Accumulators can also be used to manually pre-lube engines before starting to prevent cold-start scuffing and premature bearing wear.

[Vegas69]

Anytime the pressure in the accumulator exceeds the oil pressure in the engine, it pushes oil into the bearings. Let's say you are humming around a corner with 60 psi and you have starvation and the pressure starts to drop, the accumulator with push oil into the engine until the pressure equalizes. Once it equalizes, the accumulator will be at full capacity again momentarily. If you were to lose all oil pressure, it would oil for 3-4 seconds. When you shut off the engine, the accumulator empties into the engine. When you start the car, oil pressure will be low until it fills the accumulator.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Thanks Dale. There is a sheetmetal piece that Vince fabbed up that completes the connection to the firewall. We had been using it with the lid set up and needs to be cut down a bit. I forgot to bring it home from the shop.

Funny you mentioned the holes. I didn't really notice them until you pointed them out. I'll have to see if they actually do aid in introducing air into the box. :headscratch:

no, the whole inner section has a separate pan...its closed off to those holes.

Can you set an accumulator up to introduce oil at a specified oil pressure? Once that oil is introduced into the system does it retrieve it back when pressures are adequate?

what ever pressure you had at shut down, there is a shrader valve on the side, maybe you can?? Never researched it.

[Track Junky]

Thanks, got it. :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

what ever pressure you had at shut down, there is a shrader valve on the side, maybe you can?? Never researched it.


Let me know when you got time to help me install an accumulator. Anytime after June 30th and before August works for me. :D

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Let me know when you got time to help me install an accumulator. Anytime after June 30th and before August works for me. :D

Gonna have to be in August. When is the next battle? August or September. Send me some dates.

I have been wanting to change out all of your lines too, also make an aluminum cooler mount...for a year now.

[Track Junky]

Hoping to make August 3rd then Sept 15th

[Ron in SoCal]

Finally...:)

[Vince@Meanstreets]

That's about when you'll be ready toots

[intocarss]

Can you set an accumulator up to introduce oil at a specified oil pressure? Once that oil is introduced into the system does it retrieve it back when pressures are adequate?

Yes you can, here is one i installed year ago on a drag car. See the solenoid at the bottom,that opens at a certain drop in pressure..

http://masterlube.net/

http://masterlube.net/

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/IMG_5586.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/real3/media/IMG_5586.jpg.html)


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/IMG_5584.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/real3/media/IMG_5584.jpg.html)

[Track Junky]

Thanks Jerry. I think I'll be putting mine right behind the radiator laying horizontally on top of the subframe.

[intocarss]

Thanks Jerry. I think I'll be putting mine right behind the radiator laying horizontally on top of the subframe.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Ron in SoCal]

Gae, just a thought...Chris (Project Major Havoc) mounted his switch activated accusump horizontal and forward of the fuel tank and ran the hoses up to the engine. Seemed like a good ldea for weight distribution.

[Flash68]

Gae, just a thought...Chris (Project Major Havoc) mounted his switch activated accusump horizontal and forward of the fuel tank and ran the hoses up to the engine. Seemed like a good ldea for weight distribution.

Weight distribution yes, but it's about the farthest run possible for the lines to get to the motor when it needs it.

[Ron in SoCal]

Weight distribution yes, but it's about the farthest run possible for the lines to get to the motor when it needs it.

I don't know the part well enough to make that call (in other words are the hoses pressurized at all times?), but I believe Canton approved that placement.

Hopefully Chris jumps in here :popcorn2:

[Flash68]

I don't know the part well enough to make that call (in other words are the hoses pressurized at all times?), but I believe Canton approved that placement.

Hopefully Chris jumps in here :popcorn2:

Yeah I am not certain either. But between Chris and Todd those 2 will have all the details for sure.

[Track Junky]

Stealing a little time from work here but quickly this is what I have. Also, with the mechanical the pressure set to dispurse will be pressure at engine shut down which is why I will be going with a solenoid in the 40 psi range.


Moroso's Accumulator is connected to the pressure side of the engine's oiling system. When the engine is running, oil pressure forces reserve oil into the accumulator and compresses the air ahead. If oil pressure should suddenly drop because of hard acceleration, severe cornering or hard braking, the air pressure immediately sends oil to the main galleries. When the danger is over and the pump is once again primed with oil, the oil pressure forces oil back into the Accumulator where it is ready for the next emergency.
Moroso has 3 types of Accumulators. There is the original Accumulator which can be used for street or track. The Heavy Duty Accumulator is designed for extreme applications and all-out competition. The Accumulator 2 is highly recommended for light-duty applications including small-displacement street performance and mild off-road vehicles. All are available in a 1.5-quart version while the Accumulator and Heavy Duty Accumulator also have a 3-quart version. The 1.5-quart version is perfect for small displacement and 4- and 6-cylinder engines while the 3-quart is for 8+ cylinder applications. Moroso Accumulators come with a manual ball valve (except Accumulator 2), unlike competing models.
Moroso Accumulators can also be used to manually pre-lube engines before starting to prevent cold-start scuffing and premature bearing wear.

Weight distribution yes, but it's about the farthest run possible for the lines to get to the motor when it needs it.

Yeah I am not certain either. But between Chris and Todd those 2 will have all the details for sure.

[Payton King]

should be set at 25 lbs. It will be dumping extra oil in your motor at hot idle if it is set at 40 psi when it does not need it and assuming you are getting the 3 quart system, that is way too much.

Randy Bell has on on his car and he also wired a red warning light to the system. The light would come on when the system discharged just so he would know when and where on the track he was losing pressure.

[Vegas69]

An accumulator is simply a pressure equalizer. You can have 15 lbs of oil pressure and the cylinder is full. The solenoid keeps the accumulator from dumping it's load in the pan when you shut off the motor and it helps build oil pressure faster than with an open manual valve. Keep in mind that you only put 6 lbs of air pressure on the back side of the accumulator piston. That's why it takes 5 seconds for the cylinder to empty with the engine off. For convenience, I like the solenoid.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

should be set at 25 lbs. It will be dumping extra oil in your motor at hot idle if it is set at 40 psi when it does not need it and assuming you are getting the 3 quart system, that is way too much.

Randy Bell has on on his car and he also wired a red warning light to the system. The light would come on when the system discharged just so he would know when and where on the track he was losing pressure.

that is an excellent idea.

Gaetano is pretty keen on where to put the weight...we have tons of room in front of his crank shaft but we'll find out after we Brett-ify his sway bar. Def gonna be center and to the drivers side as much as possible.

[Track Junky]

You make a good point Payton but dont you think 25 seems a bit low? I know I should be checking this with oil temps but when I was recently checking oil pressures I brought my water temps to 205 and at 750 rpm, my oil pressure was 48 lbs.
Temp at T-Hill this Sunday is supposed to be 106. I dont think I will do all 5 sessions.....most likely three......I'll get a better idea of what kind of oil pressures I'm running at idle after a few sessions and then make a call from there.

[Track Junky]

Weight distribution yes, but it's about the farthest run possible for the lines to get to the motor when it needs it.

I don't know the part well enough to make that call (in other words are the hoses pressurized at all times?), but I believe Canton approved that placement.

Hopefully Chris jumps in here :popcorn2:

I think the safest bet would be the shortest run.

[Track Junky]

Finally...:)

BTW, Thanks for looking out :thumbsup:

An accumulator is simply a pressure equalizer. You can have 15 lbs of oil pressure and the cylinder is full. The solenoid keeps the accumulator from dumping it's load in the pan when you shut off the motor and it helps build oil pressure faster than with an open manual valve. Keep in mind that you only put 6 lbs of air pressure on the back side of the accumulator piston. That's why it takes 5 seconds for the cylinder to empty with the engine off. For convenience, I like the solenoid.

I agree, I think the solenoid is the way to go. If your outside of the car closing the valve you cant see what the oil pressure is.

[Payton King]

as I have never had one on a car. The way it was explained if you are having oiling issues where the pressure is dropping or the pump is sucking air, the pan is not baffled well enough and/or the motor is pumping all the oil to the top of the motor and it is not draining back fast enough. The accusump is supplying oil to keep the pump covered up...better way than adding an extra quart or so and not having one.

Most engine builders will tell you that you can run low pressure (20 lbs) for a short amount of time and not do any damage. You are just trying to keep it from sucking air and having no oil to the bearing.

When Ron (blue 66 mustang) blew his wet sump LS7, it was a combination of a stock LS3 pan, oil pumped to the top of the motor and a long sweeping corner and the remainder of the oil went up the side of the pan and starved the bearings.

[Track Junky]

Since my pressures are high it leads me to believe that I might suck the pan dry. I know pressure isn't the same as volume but how could I possibly calculate. I think in my case 25 might be a bit low. 40 does sound a bit high. I'll start asking questions but I imagine I'll be at least at a 30.

[Vegas69]

A properly plumbed accumulator will use a one way valve or drain back filter so the oil is pushed from the accumulator right into the main galley. Payton is right, it will lube the crank and fill the pan so the pump doesn't cavitate. There is a pressure gauge on the accumulator with the manual valve. You just subtract the 6psi precharge off the total. I would simply rev up the engine with my right hand and close it at say 60 or 70 psi.

[intocarss]

I think the safest bet would be the shortest run.

150% correct

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Since my pressures are high it leads me to believe that I might suck the pan dry. I know pressure isn't the same as volume but how could I possibly calculate. I think in my case 25 might be a bit low. 40 does sound a bit high. I'll start asking questions but I imagine I'll be at least at a 30.

There's no way you are sucking the pan dry of your oil level is correct.

You have the proper pick up, appropriate capacity, adequate returns and trap doors to keep your pick up primed.

Pressure will not do it volume will.

[Flash68]

With as fast as you are and a constantly improving suspension with tuning I am surprised this motor has lasted as long as it has without an accusump or dry sump.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

With as fast as you are and a constantly improving suspension with tuning I am surprised this motor has lasted as long as it has without an accusump or dry sump.

With his increased speeds and forces he will be seeing soon its going to have to happen but not at the expense of other very important aspects of the car that shall be left unidentified.

Gaetano and I need to sit down and pin point actual issues and correect them. Doing that on a budget is tough on all of us. One change at a time.

[Flash68]

With his increased speeds and forces he will be seeing soon its going to have to happen but not at the expense of other very important aspects of the car that shall be left unidentified.

Gaetano and I need to sit down and pin point actual issues and correect them. Doing that on a budget is tough on all of us. One change at a time.

Certainly you guys have a handle on it and are the only ones to decide the priority order best for you guys, but I would think protecting a very expensive aluminum block monster would be pretty high. :peepwall:

I was very glad to hear G purchased a full set of proper safety attire recently. :thumbsup:

[Ron in SoCal]

I was very glad to hear G purchased a full set of proper safety attire recently. :thumbsup:

x2! :hail: :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Don't get me wrong, there is a valid point in oiling protection but at this point is it truly a concern if he has adequate oil pressure, adequate oil cooling and filtering. With this type of usage engine failure is unpredictable but safeguards within his ability are in place. Come winter this car gets its planned teardown. It has been through three seasons with one failure.
We can throw tons of money at it now and it might fail just due to age. You never know and what I do know is we need to address the concerns that I can't mention without getting the stink eye.

It took him this long to replace his home depot bucket for a real one and thats only cause I took a dump in it. ROFL

[intocarss]

I was very glad to hear G purchased a full set of proper safety attire recently. :thumbsup: IT'S ABOUT TIME AND I HOPE YOU DO THE SAME

[Track Junky]

A properly plumbed accumulator will use a one way valve or drain back filter so the oil is pushed from the accumulator right into the main galley. Payton is right, it will lube the crank and fill the pan so the pump doesn't cavitate. There is a pressure gauge on the accumulator with the manual valve. You just subtract the 6psi precharge off the total. I would simply rev up the engine with my right hand and close it at say 60 or 70 psi.

My understanding of the accumulators with the mechanical valves is that they will kick in at the oil pressure it was shut down at. If your shutting it down at 60 or 70 it wouldn't dispurse until you reached 60 or 70.

[Sieg]

It took him this long to replace his home depot bucket for a real one and thats only cause I took a dump in it. ROFL
Now that's motivational!

[Vegas69]

My understanding of the accumulators with the mechanical valves is that they will kick in at the oil pressure it was shut down at. If your shutting it down at 60 or 70 it wouldn't dispurse until you reached 60 or 70.

Your overthinking this whole deal. Once the manual valve is open, engine oil pressure and accumulator pressure are equal. If you start to lose oil pressure in a corner, the accumulator piston will simply push oil into the engine until pressure resumes to normal, then the accumulator piston will return and the cylinder will be at full capacity. It only reacts to a decrease in oil pressure on the engine side. It's like a shock for your suspension.

[Flash68]

It took him this long to replace his home depot bucket for a real one and thats only cause I took a dump in it. ROFL

That's one way to :gitrdun:

:D

IT'S ABOUT TIME AND I HOPE YOU DO THE SAME

I got everything except a HANS and it's on the shopping list.

Your overthinking this whole deal. Once the manual valve is open, engine oil pressure and accumulator pressure are equal. If you start to lose oil pressure in a corner, the accumulator piston will simply push oil into the engine until pressure resumes to normal, then the accumulator piston will return and the cylinder will be at full capacity. It only reacts to a decrease in oil pressure on the engine side. It's like a shock for your suspension.

Don't mess with the SAE mechanic. :rules:

[Vegas69]

Really good article... http://www.stockcarracing.com/techarticles/1594_oil_accumulators/

[FETorino]

Your overthinking this whole deal. Once the manual valve is open, engine oil pressure and accumulator pressure are equal. If you start to lose oil pressure in a corner, the accumulator piston will simply push oil into the engine until pressure resumes to normal, then the accumulator piston will return and the cylinder will be at full capacity. It only reacts to a decrease in oil pressure on the engine side. It's like a shock for your suspension.

Todd is right :headscratch: Did I just say that :headscratch: Yea I did.

Another way to look at it. It's a big syringe. Setting it up the first time You put 50+ lbs of air into the back side with the engine off and the valve open. That pushes the piston all the way down. Then you bleed the air pressure down to about 10lbs.

Now you have an empty syringe. When the engine starts up the engine oil pressure fills the syringe and pressurizes the air on the backside. The syringe is set to give the shot.

If the oil pressure drops Dr Air pressure give it a nice smooth shot of oil.

As soon as the oil pressure rises back up the syringe refills.

Don't get confused by the valve. It doesn't do squat while the car is running. It's only purpose is to trap oil in the syringe when you shut the motor off. You have to close it before the motor is off so it traps oil in the syringe.

The only reason to run a cable or electric valve is convenience. You don't have to get out of the car while it is still running to trap the oil in the Accusump.

Hope I made it more confusing.:popcorn2:

[Track Junky]

Thanks for confirming that guys :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

Todd is right :headscratch: Did I just say that :headscratch: Yea I did.

Another way to look at it. It's a big syringe. Setting it up the first time You put 50+ lbs of air into the back side with the engine off and the valve open. That pushes the piston all the way down. Then you bleed the air pressure down to about 10lbs.

Now you have an empty syringe. When the engine starts up the engine oil pressure fills the syringe and pressurizes the air on the backside. The syringe is set to give the shot.

If the oil pressure drops Dr Air pressure give it a nice smooth shot of oil.

As soon as the oil pressure rises back up the syringe refills.

Don't get confused by the valve. It doesn't do squat while the car is running. It's only purpose is to trap oil in the syringe when you shut the motor off. You have to close it before the motor is off so it traps oil in the syringe.

The only reason to run a cable or electric valve is convenience. You don't have to get out of the car while it is still running to trap the oil in the Accusump.

Hope I made it more confusing.:popcorn2:

That's a good analogy. There's a reason I'm not a teacher. :D

[intocarss]

That's a good analogy. There's a reason I'm not a teacher. :DYou can teach things good... It's just that you'd scare the kids!!! :underchair: :poke:

[intocarss]

Thanks for confirming that guys :thumbsup: Just hook it up and let her eat already JEEEEEEEZZ :headspin: :rules:

[Track Junky]

Just hook it up and let her eat already JEEEEEEEZZ :headspin: :rules:

Wont be till after this track day so I'm going to try and refrain from pushing to hard.
Completed the alignment today and she's already loaded in the trailor.

Was up at 5:00 a.m.. Went to the grocery store to pick up food and drink for today and tomorrow. Picked up the trailor, loaded it, took the car for an alignment, loaded the car, then put fresh rubber on the hauler. And its only 11:45 a.m.. Gitter Dun!!!!!
Temp forecast has changed at T-Hill from 106 and is now supposed to be 108 on Sunday. Going to spend the day eating healthy and hydrating. :relax:

[intocarss]

Wont be till after this track day so I'm going to try and refrain from pushing to hard.
Completed the alignment today and she's already loaded in the trailor.

Was up at 5:00 a.m.. Went to the grocery store to pick up food and drink for today and tomorrow. Picked up the trailor, loaded it, took the car for an alignment, loaded the car, then put fresh rubber on the hauler. And its only 11:45 a.m.. Gitter Dun!!!!!
Temp forecast has changed at T-Hill from 106 and is now supposed to be 108 on Sunday. Going to spend the day eating healthy and hydrating. :relax: YOU ARE A RACER ;)!!! BE SAFE GO FAST AND WHOOP SOME ASS :trophy-1302:

[FETorino]

Wont be till after this track day so I'm going to try and refrain from pushing to hard.
Completed the alignment today and she's already loaded in the trailor.

Was up at 5:00 a.m.. Went to the grocery store to pick up food and drink for today and tomorrow. Picked up the trailor, loaded it, took the car for an alignment, loaded the car, then put fresh rubber on the hauler. And its only 11:45 a.m.. Gitter Dun!!!!!
Temp forecast has changed at T-Hill from 106 and is now supposed to be 108 on Sunday. Going to spend the day eating healthy and hydrating. :relax:

Have a good time out there. :thumbsup: It's hotter than F:censored: down here. I feel like I'm in Austin except there is good food around the corner and decent beer to be found.

Looking at the thread made me think Accusump probably has their instructions on line. Even better, they have a FAQ page. I'd read through that before I listen to the Jackstand Army members.:innocent:

http://www.accusump.com/accusump_tech.html

[Track Junky]

Have a good time out there. :thumbsup: It's hotter than F:censored: down here. I feel like I'm in Austin except there is good food around the corner and decent beer to be found.

Looking at the thread made me think Accusump probably has their instructions on line. Even better, they have a FAQ page. I'd read through that before I listen to the Jackstand Army members.:innocent:

http://www.accusump.com/accusump_tech.html

Thanks Rob. Once the Accusump gets delivered I'm sure I'll get all kinds of literature on it but I'm glad I got you guys to watch my back. 10 heads are always better than one.
Its 104 in El Dorado Hills right now but I'm good. Chillin' inside with the ac on.
Cooler is in the garage and I will be filling it in the morning before I leave. You can be sure that that cooler will have 4 Guinesse's in it and at the end of the day tomorrow you can count on at least two of those being thrown past my tonsils. The other two will be providing back up just in case. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

Thanks Rob. Once the Accusump gets delivered I'm sure I'll get all kinds of literature on it but I'm glad I got you guys to watch my back. 10 heads are always better than one.
Its 104 in El Dorado Hills right now but I'm good. Chillin' inside with the ac on.
Cooler is in the garage and I will be filling it in the morning before I leave. You can be sure that that cooler will have 4 Guinesse's in it and at the end of the day tomorrow you can count on at least two of those being thrown past my tonsils. The other two will be providing back up just in case. :thumbsup:

You ever think about getting a cool vest, Lots of models out there ..here's one

http://autofabcart.net/stroudcoolvest.aspx

[Track Junky]

If I had a bit more advance notice/time I probably would have went with something like this.
http://www.ogracing.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/1/213_web.jpg

[intocarss]

If I had a bit more advance notice/time I probably would have went with something like this.



http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4937048777163277&pid=1.7&w=250&h=175&c=7&rs=1

THOSE ARE NICE Mr :G-Dub:

HERE THIS PLACE IS IN LONG BEACH CA

http://www.goodvibesracing.com/DeistSafetyKoolVest.htm

[Track Junky]

THOSE ARE NICE Mr :G-Dub:

HERE THIS PLACE IS IN LONG BEACH CA

http://www.goodvibesracing.com/DeistSafetyKoolVest.htm

Yeah right. I wish cash was flowing like that for me. Replaced the link with the correct picture.

I think the vest you showed was more for the quarter mile felller's that are out of their cars in seconds.

[intocarss]

Yeah right. I wish cash was flowing like that for me. Replaced the link with the correct picture.

I think the vest you showed was more for the quarter mile felller's that are out of their cars in seconds.

I never wore one. my friends did and theirs lasted a couple of hours.. Do some research big guy.. Think about it you're freezing ice packs that go into the vest :newbie:

[Track Junky]

I never wore one. my friends did and theirs lasted a couple of hours.. Do some research big guy.. Think about it you're freezing ice packs that go into the vest :newbie:

:lol: :lol: :lol: Yeah, I'll think about it. OK I've thought about it....

The guys I've run with in the past use cool suits just like I pictured. If I ever want to nut up thats the direction I'll be going drag racer :hello:

[intocarss]

:gitrdun: :patriot:

[GregWeld]

Just so you know -- they sell the whole set up at the shop at T-Hill.... But my guess is -- they might just be out of stock this weekend!!


Have fun up there buddy!

[Vegas69]

Sweat your balls off, you can likely use it as I haven't seen you around my Healthy 101 thread in some time. :D

[Vince@Meanstreets]

he's on his 3rd session and he should be posting times after lunch. So far all the changes are working for him.

engine temp is 190 max

[Sieg]

Temps good assuming it 85-90* already.

How's the oil pressure?

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Temps good assuming it 85-90* already.

How's the oil pressure?

he just said it was fine. I assume its good cause if it was bad I'd hear it.

He should be done with session 3 now. shows its 91 degrees up there now.

[intocarss]

he's on his 3rd session and he should be posting times after lunch. So far all the changes are working for him.

engine temp is 190 max I didn't realize this was today DOH

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I guess he fell asleep in his arm chair?

[Track Junky]

Just got home. Had a good time. If the track wasn't so slick from the heat I probably would have had a great time. The track was very, very slick. In all the years I have been doing this I have only been 4 wheels off one time. Today I was 4 wheels off twice. Brought the car around in turn three in the third session and drove all four wheels in the grass on the inside. No big deal as I was able to counter enough to drive straight on through to turn 4. Session four I went 4 wheels off in turn 4 and couldn't counter quick enough to keep me pointed in the right direction. Ended up with th back of my car pointed toward turn 5 bypass. Car stalled. Fired it up and got back on the track. The fastest guy getting timed in open class was driving a newer Z06 and at the end of the day he was only faster by .300 of a second. His name was Brian Lock. I'd seen his name on the NCRC site often when I'd take a look at track times and remembeed his name becaus he was always the fastest guy at least 90% of the time. Very cool guy and we talked for awhile. The new rear sway bar set up is doing its job. Car is feeling neutral again.

Thanks to Todd and his Healthy 101 thread I feel great. Still have a ton of energy. I'm amazed.

I'll start loading photos and see if I got anything out of the Go Pro as it was acting up.

[Sieg]

The inside of three :sieg: .........your entry speed wasn't nearly fast enough!

Glad you had a good time buddy, greasy track is no time to try and set records, just keep pace amongst the fast group.

300-400TW rubber may have actually produced better times in this heat???

[dstryr]

Glad my sway bar clamp I made for you guys worked LOL

[Track Junky]

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Thunderhill%202013/NCRC5541.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Thunderhill%202013/NCRC3539.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Thunderhill%202013/NCRC5584.jpg

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Just got home. Had a good time. If the track wasn't so slick from the heat I probably would have had a great time. The track was very, very slick. In all the years I have been doing this I have only been 4 wheels off one time. Today I was 4 wheels off twice. Brought the car around in turn three in the third session and drove all four wheels in the grass on the inside. No big deal as I was able to counter enough to drive straight on through to turn 4. Session four I went 4 wheels off in turn 4 and couldn't counter quick enough to keep me pointed in the right direction. Ended up with th back of my car pointed toward turn 5 bypass. Car stalled. Fired it up and got back on the track. The fastest guy getting timed in open class was driving a newer Z06 and at the end of the day he was only faster by .300 of a second. His name was Brian Lock. I'd seen his name on the NCRC site often when I'd take a look at track times and remembeed his name becaus he was always the fastest guy at least 90% of the time. Very cool guy and we talked for awhile. The new rear sway bar set up is doing its job. Car is feeling neutral again.

Thanks to Todd and his Healthy 101 thread I feel great. Still have a ton of energy. I'm amazed.

I'll start loading photos and see if I got anything out of the Go Pro as it was acting up.

Now we have to sit and determine if the sway bar change induced snap over steer or if your tires just weren't working with the track. I predicted that you would have to tune for neutrality and just not tight.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Glad my sway bar clamp I made for you guys worked LOL

needs some tweeking but it is working great. I'll be modifying the bar this winter.

[Track Junky]

Glad my sway bar clamp I made for you guys worked LOL

Thanks...it did work well but we're going to need a little revision. Vince will be talking to you soon. :unibrow:

[Track Junky]

Now we have to sit and determine if the sway bar change induced snap over steer or if your tires just weren't working with the track. I predicted that you would have to tune for neutrality and just not tight.

Clamp worked fine but we need to make two changes. We'll talk later.

[Track Junky]

he just said it was fine. I assume its good cause if it was bad I'd hear it.

He should be done with session 3 now. shows its 91 degrees up there now.

Second session was red flagged after the third lap due to a 4 wheel off in 8 that started a fire. When I stopped and looked at my oil pressure it was 30 lbs at idle. Payton was right.....a 25 lb solenoid will work for the accusump.

[Track Junky]

Temps good assuming it 85-90* already.

How's the oil pressure?

It was 109 at Willows when I left. Water temps never got over 190. Pretty amazing. No way to know what oil pressures were while I was driving......too busy keeping my eyes on the road. A cowl mounted oil pressure gauge would be the only way I'd be able to see where oil pressures were at.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Clamp worked fine but we need to make two changes. We'll talk later.

don't tell me:

make it in AL
replace the allen button heads with longer 6 point ARP's
lengthen the chromoly rods by 1.250 in
increase the bar length by 2" on each side.

:D

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Second session was red flagged after the third lap due to a 4 wheel off in 8 that started a fire. When I stopped and looked at my oil pressure it was 30 lbs at idle. Payton was right.....a 25 lb solenoid will work for the accusump.

cars that hot...lol

[Vince@Meanstreets]

It was 109 at Willows when I left. Water temps never got over 190. Pretty amazing. No way to know what oil pressures were while I was driving......too busy keeping my eyes on the road. A cowl mounted oil pressure gauge would be the only way I'd be able to see where oil pressures were at.

thats why I like to mount the gauges so the needles are straight up at normal operating ranges.

[Track Junky]

don't tell me:

make it in AL
replace the allen button heads with longer 6 point ARP's
lengthen the chromoly rods by 1.250 in
increase the bar length by 2" on each side.

:D

Well since your going there:

keep it steel
We need to narrow it
Heim joint rod is hitting upper bracket when I max it out for length.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Well since your going there:

keep it steel
We need to narrow it
Heim joint rod is hitting upper bracket when I max it out for length.

i'll take a look at it when you are in for the accusump

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Well since your going there:

keep it steel
We need to narrow it
Heim joint rod is hitting upper bracket when I max it out for length.

how was the adjustments in the heat? easy?

[GregWeld]

Glad you had a good time Gae!


Just so ya know - I've always had all my wheels on the track even when I spun it in turn 9...

I can only imagine how greasy it was out there today. OMG.... Way too hot! The oil would have been oozing out it.


How hot were YOU??

[Sieg]

It was 109 at Willows when I left. Water temps never got over 190. Pretty amazing. No way to know what oil pressures were while I was driving......too busy keeping my eyes on the road. A cowl mounted oil pressure gauge would be the only way I'd be able to see where oil pressures were at.
Mount a GoPro to record gauge data during the session? Poor mans telemetry.

[Track Junky]

Sorry guys, Go Pro vid is a fail so I'll just run through the day session by session. Most laps I got in each session were maybe 4-5 at the most. As soon as I new I wasn't going to turn a faster lap I came in to log info and make adjustments and let me add trying to tune on a slick track was no easy task.
Session one started out well. 1st and second lap felt fine in the corners. I was relaxed and taking the car in. She felt really smooth and neutral in the corners. I started to get on er a little harder the third lap and she started to feel real greasy. Hot tires slick track. 4th lap I was coming up on three real hard. I came in from the outside for a late apex with an early turn in anticipating the four wheel drift to nail the apex perfectly. 1/4 of the way in the back end came around and I caught her just in time to be able to drive straight through the dry grass with 4 off and continue through four. Time to bring er in. Only thing that made me nervous was the shuttering of the steering wheel heading down the straight. It had never done this before and I attribute it to the new alignment set up for now but I will be checking, bearings, brakes, etc. The new alignment went from 1.8 neg camber to 2.5 and I brought the toe in another 32th for 1/16 positive toe on each side.

Time to hit the sack. To be continued......

[intocarss]

It was 109 at Willows when I left. Water temps never got over 190. Pretty amazing. No way to know what oil pressures were while I was driving......too busy keeping my eyes on the road. A cowl mounted oil pressure gauge would be the only way I'd be able to see where oil pressures were at. Do you have a low oil pressure warning light? I'd rather just be able to see a bright light then watch a gauge...

You can make your own or


Adjustable one
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Adjustable-Oil-Pressure-Warning-Light-Kits,7805.html

just the light
http://www.autoaccessoriesgarage.com/Gauges/AutoMeter-Pro-Lite-Warning-Light

You can also get a low oil pressure Ing cut off switch

http://onanparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=549

JEGS has all these too

[Flash68]

He should be done with session 3 now. shows its 91 degrees up there now.

91?! I bet it was 91 at 4am in Willows!

and I brought the toe in another 16th for 1/16 positive toe.



Curious why you went 1/16 toe in?

[Vince@Meanstreets]

91?! I bet it was 91 at 4am in Willows!

thats what my fancy iPhone weather head told me.....

Curious why you went 1/16 toe in?
cause he likes to make as many changes as he can all at once, just to keep me on my toes :D

[Track Junky]

how was the adjustments in the heat? easy?

If your asking me if I was sweating my ass off as I twisted wrenches underneath my car in 100 plus temps then yes, very easy

Glad you had a good time Gae!


Just so ya know - I've always had all my wheels on the track even when I spun it in turn 9...

I can only imagine how greasy it was out there today. OMG.... Way too hot! The oil would have been oozing out it.


How hot were YOU??

Thanks Greg. To be honest the heat wasn't really that bad. It was a really dry heat and it didn't really effect me......but then again I am pretty acclamated to the heat since I spend most my time in the field. Track was slick but with the right set of shocks I could have adjusted for it. I believe the shocks I was using were inconsistent.

Mount a GoPro to record gauge data during the session? Poor mans telemetry.

C'mon Sieg!! Did you really just ask me to use a Go Pro? :snapout:

Do you have a low oil pressure warning light? I'd rather just be able to see a bright light then watch a gauge...

You can make your own or


Adjustable one
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Adjustable-Oil-Pressure-Warning-Light-Kits,7805.html

just the light
http://www.autoaccessoriesgarage.com/Gauges/AutoMeter-Pro-Lite-Warning-Light

You can also get a low oil pressure Ing cut off switch

http://onanparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=549

JEGS has all these too

Thanks Jer....warning light will get installed in mid August :thumbsup:

91?! I bet it was 91 at 4am in Willows!



Curious why you went 1/16 toe in?

I've been playing around with my alignment just to see how the car reacts. Last time out I was 1.8 neg camber, 1/32 pos toe, and 7.2 castor. The temps on the outside of front tires were 7* higher than the inside.
This time around I went with 2.5 neg camber, 8.5 pos castor, and 1/16th pos toe. Outside tire temps dropped 4 degrees.
I think the shuttering of the wheel was due to the toe setting but i still need to get under there and take a look.

[Sieg]

C'mon Sieg!! Did you really just ask me to use a Go Pro? :snapout:
Mount a video camera of some sort to record your gauge readings. :hello:

[FETorino]

:snapout: Your a track star Damit...... stop being so cheap and buy a data logger.:bitchslap:

Problem solved.

:cheers:

[Track Junky]

So continuing on.....session 2 was a total bust. There was a delay at starting grid for debri clean up in turn 6. We got around one lap and then a red flag. All cars came to a halt. Somebody got 4 off in 8 and started a grass fire.

No adjustments for session three since I never ran session two. Oh yeah, dont think I mentioned that I took 2 lbs of air out of the rears for seesion 2 due to session 1 incident. Session 3 went well until the 3rd lap when the driver side started getting loose again. I wasn't going to get any faster so I brought the car in for adjustments.

I lengthened the arm on the rear sway bar on the driver side and took a click back on the shock setting to get ready for session 4.

Session 4 went well until third lap. I rolled through turn three fine but when I swung the wheel back for turn 4(back to back turns 3 right and 4 left for those of you that dont know T-Hill)The back end came out and I couldn't catch it fast enough. Ended up with my back end facing turn 5 cyclone. Fired er back up and brought er back in.

All in all it was a good day. I know the sway bar is doing it's job because the front no longer pushes. I may have had too much rear bar in it but I if I did I didn't catch it fast enough this time around. I also could have dropped rear roll center on the watts but once again another "what if".
Important thing is that I learned a few things and can move forward from here. Looking forward to the next track day. :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

Mount a video camera of some sort to record your gauge readings. :hello:

I was just messin with you Sieg. You know my luck with Go Pros. Definitely a great idea but it all takes time and :G-Dub:

I think the next thing to be spending on is an Accusump and a warning light.

:snapout: Your a track star Damit...... stop being so cheap and buy a data logger.:bitchslap:

Problem solved.

:cheers:

Yeah Ok, I'll mull it over with the wife and see what she thinks :lol:

[Ron in SoCal]

Your wife picks out your data logger? Man she's a keeper! :D

[Track Junky]

Your wife picks out your data logger? Man she's a keeper! :D

actually my wife is a data logger.......and when the data gets into the red..... :rules:

[Sieg]

I was just messin with you Sieg. You know my luck with Go Pros. Definitely a great idea but it all takes time and :G-Dub:

I think the next thing to be spending on is an Accusump and a warning light.

It only takes seconds unless you get GW to help you.

Set it up right and we'd get to see your fancy footwork too! :D

[Flash68]

actually my wife is a data logger.......and when the data gets into the red..... :rules:

:lol:

It only takes seconds unless you get GW to help you.

Set it up right and we'd get to see your fancy footwork too! :D

As long as you upgrade the firmware (on the older software) you just use the One Touch setting.... and it's literally ONE TOUCH. :thumbsup:

G -- I'll be up there at Sonoma in Aug when you guys are there... I will be your Go Pro pit crew guy. Cool?

[Track Junky]

:lol:



As long as you upgrade the firmware (on the older software) you just use the One Touch setting.... and it's literally ONE TOUCH. :thumbsup:

G -- I'll be up there at Sonoma in Aug when you guys are there... I will be your Go Pro pit crew guy. Cool?


You just reminded me. I forgot to sign up. I cant keep up with anything these days. See you there :thumbsup:

[fleetus macmullitz]

G -- I'll be up there at Sonoma in Aug when you guys are there... I will be your Go Pro pit crew guy. Cool?

http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/pictime.gif

[Track Junky]

Need to make a correction. I just went into the NCRC site and It looks like Andrew went out on the last session and took me by 1.6. :ohsnap:

[Sieg]

Gaetano,

When it's all dialed in and T-Hill starts to get boring........

HO2HfZqTlnc

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Gaetano,

When it's all dialed in and T-Hill starts to get boring........

HO2HfZqTlnc

Seeg, is that a picture of a cone on its side? LOL

Never mind you fixed the link


Would not be good, he complains about tire usage as it is

[GregWeld]

Wow -- he's drifting T-Hill faster than I can drive it.... pretty damn talented guy -- but he put me to sleep with his monolog drone....


He and Tanner Faust would be a ball at an all night party... :D :faint: :faint:

[Track Junky]

Gaetano,

When it's all dialed in and T-Hill starts to get boring........


Interesting....thanks for sharing Sieg. Honestly dont see me doing that at T-Hill anytime soon but I have been wanting to do a little "drift" video if you will. I think it would be pretty fun and I have the perfect set of tires begging to be shredded in my storage shed. One of those "set up the cones and drift around them" type thing. Just need time to find a good sized empty lot. :unibrow:

[intocarss]

This is drifting:headspin:

Uv-RkZso6wM

[Flash68]

Give em hell out there today... :Tomcat:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Had a productive outing.
Should be a video posting soon.

[Flash68]

Should be a video posting soon.

Yeah we've heard that before. :twak:

[Sieg]

Had a productive outing.
Should be a video posting soon.

:popcorn2: :popcorn2: :popcorn2:

[Track Junky]

Hey guys......had a great time at T-Hill. Very productive.......learned alot more about the car and Vince and I will use what I learned towards setting up the next subframe. I'll fill you guys in on the details as soon as I can.

I have alot of decent pics and am currently converting and editing vids now. Hopefully will have them up by tomorrow. :thankyou:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

on youtube.
hope you left me some popcorn sieg.
3Mz_FgWkWi8

[Sieg]

hope you left me some popcorn sieg.

Fresh popcorn and cold beer! :cheers:

Car and driver are looking good and the motor sounds great!!!

Gae - Nice lines buddy, the last couple of laps looked quick, right on the edge of traction thru that sneaky T6 :thumbsup:

How's the gearing? Almost sounds like you're maxed just a little early on the front straight?

Camera's just don't do the crest of 9 and the run down the hill justice.

I'm waiting for you to hold it pinned over the crest in T5 :unibrow:

[DaleTx]

Good video Gaetano... nice driving!

[Ron Sutton]

So what changes did you make & how did they make the car respond?

:popcorn2:

P.S. Why do you think the car stepped out at 7:24? Was the car on the verge of free anyway? ... or did something different happen?

[fleetus macmullitz]

Good video Gaetano... nice driving!

X2. :thumbsup:

Saw it on the East Coast. We approve as well.

:D

[intocarss]

nice vid

[Sieg]

So what changes did you make & how did they make the car respond?
:popcorn2:

P.S. Why do you think the car stepped out at 7:24? Was the car on the verge of free anyway? ... or did something different happen?

:y0!:

[DFRESH]

Dude, your dash pad blew off.

[Flash68]

Very nice! (the driving, not the video) :D

You look smooth out there... like you've been there before? :peepwall:

Glad the car and you behaved well out there.

Oops. Spoke too soon.... where's that new suit you bought? :rules:

[Sieg]

Dude, your dash pad blew off.

That there's a Commando interior. :D

[intocarss]

Dude, your dash pad blew off. SO DID ALL HIS "SAFETY GEAR"... :shakehead:


Very nice! (the driving, not the video)

where's that new suit you bought? :rules:

WHAT HE SAID!!!!!!!!!!! HEY TRACKY..... DON'T MAKE ME HURT YOU, YOU DUMB ASS!!!!!!!!:warning:

[GregWeld]

Gae ---


I'll be running with Nor Cal Shelby October's Fall Classic.... they'll even allow Camaros to run!!




http://www.norcal-saac.org/fallclassic/



And also Laguna Seca (just a one day event!)



http://www.norcal-saac.org/turkeybowl/

[Track Junky]

Fresh popcorn and cold beer! :cheers:

Car and driver are looking good and the motor sounds great!!!

Gae - Nice lines buddy, the last couple of laps looked quick, right on the edge of traction thru that sneaky T6 :thumbsup:

How's the gearing? Almost sounds like you're maxed just a little early on the front straight?

Camera's just don't do the crest of 9 and the run down the hill justice.

I'm waiting for you to hold it pinned over the crest in T5 :unibrow:

Thanks Sieg. Gearing is actually perfect. I'm tacking about 6200 at the end of the straight when I get it right.

Pinned over 5...........can you say airbourn :badidea:

Good video Gaetano... nice driving!

X2. :thumbsup:

Saw it on the East Coast. We approve as well.

:D

nice vid

Thanks guys......it's was fun :cheers:

[Track Junky]

So what changes did you make & how did they make the car respond?

:popcorn2:

P.S. Why do you think the car stepped out at 7:24? Was the car on the verge of free anyway? ... or did something different happen?

Well Ron.....I pretty much just took a half inch off the coil springs and then added a 1/2" taller ball joint. Once that work was complete I took it to the alignment shop and backed out static castor and camber. Ths car responded by feeling alot closer to neutral which leads me to think I was running too much castor my previous track day causing the car to jack loose.

In addition...my outside front tire temp differential went from 4* to 2* which is good.

The car began to get free at the end of my second session and I'm thinking it was due to front tire wear and the RA-1's starting to come in and give me better grip. To counter the free condition I began to lower rear roll center one bolt hole at a time. By the time I got to my 5th session I had dropped three bolt holes and the front grip was not effected which tells me front grip was getting better and so was the rear. I ran my fastest lap time the 5th session.

Thoughts?

[Track Junky]

Dude, your dash pad blew off.

Dude, dash pad is there.....I'm just using the new Invisi-Dash spray. :lol:

Very nice! (the driving, not the video) :D

You look smooth out there... like you've been there before? :peepwall:

Glad the car and you behaved well out there.

Oops. Spoke too soon.... where's that new suit you bought? :rules:

Thanks Dave......oh....I guess you hadn't heard of the new Invisi-Suit spray that just came out. :whistling:

SO DID ALL HIS "SAFETY GEAR"... :shakehead:

WHAT HE SAID!!!!!!!!!!! HEY TRACKY..... DON'T MAKE ME HURT YOU, YOU DUMB ASS!!!!!!!!:warning:

I'm guessing your not going to buy my Invisi-spray line :peepwall:



Gae ---


I'll be running with Nor Cal Shelby October's Fall Classic.... they'll even allow Camaros to run!!

And also Laguna Seca (just a one day event!)

Thanks for the invite Greg and I'm sorry I missed you guys at Sonoma....car was just too ass happy to take there yet.

Car is going to Vince's now for a coil over conversion so unfortunately I'll have to miss those this year but hopefully we can get together next season. :cheers:

o

[Track Junky]

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Thunderhill%202013/A64F6037.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Thunderhill%202013/A64F3717.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Thunderhill%202013/A64F3824.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Thunderhill%202013/NCRC3441.jpg

[intocarss]

Just wear your DAM safety gear!!!! I love those pics!!! ^^^^^^^^^^

[Ron Sutton]

Well Ron.....I pretty much just took a half inch off the coil springs
Which loaded the front tires more, helping to loosen the car up.

and then added a 1/2" taller ball joint.
And increased camber gain.

Once that work was complete I took it to the alignment shop and backed out static castor and camber. Ths car responded by feeling alot closer to neutral which leads me to think I was running too much castor my previous track day causing the car to jack loose.
Sure could be. What's your scrub radius?

In addition...my outside front tire temp differential went from 4* to 2* which is good.
Good.

The car began to get free at the end of my second session and I'm thinking it was due to front tire wear
Hmmm. Why would front tire wear make the car loose? Do you mean something different than you wrote? :)

and the RA-1's starting to come in and give me better grip. To counter the free condition I began to lower rear roll center one bolt at a time.
Excellent tuning move for a loose car. Can you lower your rear ride height any?


By the time I got to my 5th session I had dropped three bolt holes
How far apart are your panhard bar holes? What is the range of adjustment you have? What is your lowest height? ... highest height? ... And where did you end up?

and the front grip was not effected which tells me front grip was getting better and so was the rear.
Front grip wasn't affected by the panhard bar moving down. Maybe the track gripped up. The rear panhard bar moving down works the rear tires more. In fact, if you go too far, it will make the car push.

I ran my fastest lap time the 5th session.
Cool. The video looks to be of session #4 ... and the car stepped out just once, but looked a "tick skatey" just a few times. When you lowered the panhard bar again for session #5 ... did that provide enough rear grip where the car didn't step out at all? ... or was the car still "edgy"?

Thoughts?

Glad you had a good day !

[Sieg]

Thanks Sieg. Gearing is actually perfect. I'm tacking about 6200 at the end of the straight when I get it right.

Pinned over 5...........can you say airbourn :badidea:

Rev's between corners sounded pretty close all the way around, where is it not ideal and what gearing are you running?

You're running the bypass and Daisy Duke is shaking her head in shame! :D
:underchair:


Car is going to Vince's now for a coil over conversion so unfortunately I'll have to miss those this year but hopefully we can get together next season. :cheers:

Do share the coil over conversion plan, that's where I'm heading with my spare subframe. :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

Glad you had a good day !

Thanks Ron. Just to give you some insight on my path to dialing my suspension in I had moved my watts pivot(not using a panhard) up last season to take the push out of the car. I am now at a point where I'm getting more front grip so I am able to drop rear roll center to increase rear grip. I'll double check on how much each bolt location moves roll center but my guess is about an inch.

Skatey would be a decent description of how the front feels now. I'm thinking it's a combination of still a bit too much castor that might be affecting my scrub radius and I dont think the toe is the same as when I left the alignment shop not to mention it would help to have a decent set of shocks. I'm going to verify if the alignment moved any next Saturday.

[Flash68]

Those pics look great man. You can really see the extra fender space you got for those fronts.

[Track Junky]

Rev's between corners sounded pretty close all the way around. What gearing are you running?

No complaints about the gearing. Running 3.42's

Do share the coil over conversion plan, that's where I'm heading with my spare subframe. :thumbsup:

Stay tuned Siegmeister....Hopefully will have something for ya some time in October.:thumbsup:

[89 RS]

Good stuff Gaetano, motor sounds healthy. Thanks for sharing man.

[Ron Sutton]

Thanks Ron. Just to give you some insight on my path to dialing my suspension in I had moved my watts pivot(not using a panhard)
Gotcha.

up last season to take the push out of the car.
Ok. Now that you lowered the front end 1/2" you're loading the front end a LOT more, and it has gripped up the front ... making the car loose with the high RC. If you're not clear, dropping the front end 1/2" is a HUGE change.

With race cars, raising or lowering either end of the car 1/8" is a significant tuning change. 1/4" is a major change. 1/2" is a ton. It will affect the car's grip balance enormously. We don't do this a lot in the front of stock cars, because we're usually at or near the minimum already. So if we need a significant change, we might raise the rear & reset all the link angles.

It slips my mind ... that because you don't have any class rules ... you can do whatever physically works. Dropping the front end 1/2" is where you got the majority of the added front tire grip. The caster & camber changes you made played a smaller role.


I am now at a point where I'm getting more front grip so I am able to drop rear roll center to increase rear grip.
Yup.Yup.

I'll double check on how much each bolt location moves roll center but my guess is about an inch.
Ok. For discussion sake, post the max & minimum height from the ground ... and the difference from hole to hole.

Skatey would be a decent description of how the front feels now.
Is "now" session #5?
At what part of the corner does the front feel skatey?
Does the rear now have "good grip" throughout the corner?


I'm thinking it's a combination of still a bit too much castor that might be affecting my scrub radius
:headscratch:
What is your scrub radius & Caster at currently?

and I dont think the toe is the same as when I left the alignment shop
Hmmm. Curbs?

not to mention it would help to have a decent set of shocks.
Of course.

I'm going to verify if the alignment moved any next Saturday.

Cool. Get your scrub radius # & caster degree then too.

[sixnina]

So how's the tuning going Gaetano any updates??
Shane

[Track Junky]

Work was super busy and then when it slowed down I renewed a couple of my certifications which meant going back to the training classes. So I am now recertified for OSHA permit required confined space entry and excavations/competent person. Also am currently trying to get approval for QSP certification. I passed my QSP exam but your not official until you get an underlying certificate so I am now working on completing the application process for my CESSWI. Lots of reading/studying to do.

As far as the car goes, after my last event at T-Hill I noticed a vibration in the drive line my last two laps of the 5th session. Turns out it was the trans. The car has been up on jack stands for the past month and I finally got time this morning to box the trans up for shipping. Going to take some time off on Tuesday to shipp'er out for refreshing.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Freshenuptrans2013299.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Freshenuptrans2013300.jpg

[GregWeld]

Hey Gae!


You know how I tune my stuff?? I drive it as fast as I can and if it starts skating around then I know I've hit the limits of traction -- either end of the car depending on which end is skating. When that happens -- I try to change my line in that same corner next time -- or I enter or exit slower. DONE.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[intocarss]

Who built that crate for you???

[Track Junky]

Hey Gae!


You know how I tune my stuff?? I drive it as fast as I can and if it starts skating around then I know I've hit the limits of traction -- either end of the car depending on which end is skating. When that happens -- I try to change my line in that same corner next time -- or I enter or exit slower. DONE.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I think we need to work on changing your strategy :disgusted: :mock: :lol:

[Track Junky]

Who built that crate for you???

I woke up early this morning, busted out the skill saw and tape measure, then chopped and cut some 1x1 and 1/2" plywood I had laying around. Worked out perfect. Tranny fits like a glove.

Had to get it done before taking my boys to the go kart place.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

:flag2: I woke up early this morning, busted out the skill saw and tape measure, then chopped and cut some 1x1 and 1/2" plywood I had laying around. Worked out perfect. Tranny fits like a glove.

Had to get it done before taking my boys to the go kart place.

What? Dont you mean skateboard place?

[FETorino]

I woke up early this morning, busted out the skill saw and tape measure, then chopped and cut some 1x1 and 1/2" plywood I had laying around. Worked out perfect. Tranny fits like a glove.

Had to get it done before taking my boys to the go kart place.

:flag2:

What? Dont you mean skateboard place?

No it's GW that "skates":guns:

I'm sure GW appreciates the less technical term plywood but I'd call it OSB.:lmao:

Congrats on the certs:thumbsup:

:cheers:

[Track Junky]

:flag2:

What? Dont you mean skateboard place?


HAHA.....I know, right? Boys suddenly got the jones to do some karting....they've been bugging me all week so I finally got the opportunity to take them. Fun as usual........Anthony normally beats Nicks lap times but Nick beat him all 3 sessions this time. Anthony was bent out of shape :lol:

No it's GW that "skates":guns:

I'm sure GW appreciates the less technical term plywood but I'd call it OSB.:lmao:

Congrats on the certs:thumbsup:

:cheers:

Thanks Rob. Still have one big one to go and I have to be accepted through the State of California in the application process in order to take the exam but I should be good.

Awesome job on picking up the difference between ply and OSB. Not sure many would had known what I was talking about if I said OSB. :thumbsup:

[intocarss]

I woke up early this morning, busted out the skill saw and tape measure, then chopped and cut some 1x1 and 1/2" plywood I had laying around. Worked out perfect. Tranny fits like a glove.

Had to get it done before taking my boys to the go kart place.OH, didn't know you owned a hammer.. I would of thought you hired a Lic contractor :gitrdun:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

just re warming the thread....no new pictures gaetano?

[sixnina]

just re warming the thread....no new pictures gaetano?

Yeah,
No updates???

[Track Junky]

Yeah,
No updates???

Soon........dropping car off at Vinces shop this weekend. Mostly installing safety stuff but will also finally do something with the dash. I dont like the '69 Camaro dash pads so I tried one from a Nova and didn't like that look either so we are going to do a custom dash. :superhack:

I'll have some pics up hopefully by Sunday night.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Sorry for the lack of updates but we were able to get the track car running and off the rack so now its time.

Tear down today. Shooting for an April 19th completion date. Track day is on May 3rd.

I have been working on the fuel cell cage for a few days so now its time to set it in.
After gutting the cell box we started on the 1x1 cage surround. Center drop to start.

[Flash68]

Yeah buddy! :superhack:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

The punch list....

-create mounting and install Woodward collapsible steering shaft
-install QD steering wheel
-install and plumb fuel cell
-install ATL fuel sender unit
-redo rear fuel supply with line bulk head
-modify rear sway bar mounting
-fabricate an easy to see and user friendly instrument panel
-rewire underdash
-replace rear shocks
-lose 50lbs
-quad brake lights
-install tracmate

[Evan Iroc-Z]

The punch list....

-lose 50lbs


Hopefully you're talking about the car and not dropping subtle hints for the driver!

Nice work so far.

[Sieg]

Hopefully you're talking about the car and not dropping subtle hints for the driver!

Nice work so far.

25 pounds each.

:underchair:

[Beach Cruiser]

This thing is starting to get serious!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Hopefully you're talking about the car and not dropping subtle hints for the driver!

Nice work so far. Haaa thank's, yeah with a track car addiction and other responsibilities that is all too possible. He doesn't eat much. :D

25 pounds each.

:underchair: 15 alone from un-swelling his helmet filler.

This thing is starting to get serious!
We are still trying to be un-assuming to the naked eye.

Going at the dash.....sheesh...thats 7lbs right there. I think I personally lost 2 when I pulled it out. Its going to be a good week.

[Track Junky]

Thanks Buddy, looking good. Hope all goes smooth. :thumbsup:

[89 RS]

Nice to-do list there Gaetano. What kind of rear shocks are you going with?

[Flash68]

What kind of rear shocks are you going with?

the slow kind.

[Track Junky]

Nice to-do list there Gaetano. What kind of rear shocks are you going with?

Thanks Corey. I put a call into Ron Sutton for the task. I felt I needed the shocks because I thought the ones I were using were bottoming out and making me loose at entry. After Ron called Vince for some measurements and info turns out I wasn't bottoming the outside shock out, I was over extending the inside shock and picking up the inside rear wheel. Ron has a call into Penske right now and the plan is to go with the Penske 7500DA's last we talked.

the slow kind.

HAHAHA.......Very, Very Funny :buttkick:

[intocarss]

What kind of rear shocks are you going with?

the slow kind.

He's trying to make it fair for the rest of us

[Ron in SoCal]

Thanks Corey. I put a call into Ron Sutton for the task. I felt I needed the shocks because I thought the ones I were using were bottoming out and making me loose at entry. After Ron called Vince for some measurements and info turns out I wasn't bottoming the outside shock out, I was over extending the inside shock and picking up the inside rear wheel. Ron has a call into Penske right now and the plan is to go with the Penske 7500DA's last we talked.


Good call Bro. :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

He's trying to make it fair for the rest of us

Your giving me way too much credit buddy but I'll take it. :lol:

Good call Bro. :thumbsup:

Thanks Ronny. I agree. Nothing better than having a suspension guru 5 minutes from home. :thumbsup:

Hey, so one thing I forgot to mention.......Joe Pecavar stopped by Vinces to check the tune on my motor and found two broken rocker studs.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Your giving me way too much credit buddy but I'll take it. :lol:



Thanks Ronny. I agree. Nothing better than having a suspension guru 5 minutes from home. :thumbsup:

Hey, so one thing I forgot to mention.......Joe Pecavar stopped by Vinces to check the tune on my motor and found two broken rocker studs.

damn CCS parts......thats why its nice to hand pick your parts. Car parts too.

[89 RS]

the slow kind.

Ahh...those special ones. :lol:

Thanks Corey. I put a call into Ron Sutton for the task. I felt I needed the shocks because I thought the ones I were using were bottoming out and making me loose at entry. After Ron called Vince for some measurements and info turns out I wasn't bottoming the outside shock out, I was over extending the inside shock and picking up the inside rear wheel. Ron has a call into Penske right now and the plan is to go with the Penske 7500DA's last we talked.




Very nice, thanks for the reply Gaetano.

[FETorino]

Thanks Ronny. I agree. Nothing better than having a suspension guru 5 minutes from home. :thumbsup:

Hey, so one thing I forgot to mention.......Joe Pecavar stopped by Vinces to check the tune on my motor and found two broken rocker studs.

Looking good GAE. Lucky you having the Ron man in the neighborhood. Those Penskes should make a big difference out back. :thumbsup:

Do you have traditional shackles on the rear of your leafs or sliders? I don't know if I've ever seen your set up.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

HD shackles....poly bushed now. We will see if we can move him into a link set up.

Cell work this morning. I have 3 cars going together so im jumping around a bit.

Sending unit added. Nice clean set up.

Side bars will go in later.

[Track Junky]

Looking good GAE. Lucky you having the Ron man in the neighborhood. Those Penskes should make a big difference out back. :thumbsup:

Do you have traditional shackles on the rear of your leafs or sliders? I don't know if I've ever seen your set up.

Thanks Rob. I've considered sliders many times but never pulled the trigger. Like Vince says, shackles, pollies, and the Fays II Watts is what I have been getting by on.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Watts%20Link/WattsLink096.jpg

[Track Junky]

Vince, thats alot of extra space back there under the car that is going to trap alot of air. Were going to have to look into a way of keeping air from getting trapped in there. Time not being on our side might have to fill it with foam blocks cut to shape and cover with sheet metal temporarily and then build some sort of diffuser. Nother option could be splitter and side skirts.

[Sieg]

Looking good GAE. Lucky you having the Ron man in the neighborhood. Those Penskes should make a big difference out back. :thumbsup:

Do you have traditional shackles on the rear of your leafs or sliders? I don't know if I've ever seen your set up.

Amen on the Penske's.....I couldn't believe the improvement and tune-ability when I installed a 3-way on my Ducati. Besides they're real purdy. :thumbsup:

Sliders! :sieg:

http://static.speedwaymotors.com/RS/SR/Product/8/91043305_L_17173348.jpg

Embarrassingly enough I have never seen those! I've been planning on Global West or Hotchkis bushings on my GW L2 springs. Is the end performance result of the slider considering the price difference comparable.......for a pro-tinkerer on a tight budget?

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Vince, thats alot of extra space back there under the car that is going to trap alot of air. Were going to have to look into a way of keeping air from getting trapped in there. Time not being on our side might have to fill it with foam blocks cut to shape and cover with sheet metal temporarily and then build some sort of diffuser. Nother option could be splitter and side skirts.

Leave your blocks at home, we got it figured but it's a lot of tin work.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Gaetano didn't like the cell so far back so we pushed it up 5 inches.

Snip here snip there and its back in.

[Flash68]

High maintenance customers FTW.

[GregWeld]

High maintenance customers FTW.



Would be nice to have PAYING customers....


Then the high maintenance would be worth the effort.


I agree with him though -- get that weight as near center as possible....


Oh yeah -- and all the re-work helps keep him off the track.

[GregWeld]

Amen on the Penske's.....I couldn't believe the improvement and tune-ability when I installed a 3-way on my Ducati. Besides they're real purdy. :thumbsup:

Sliders! :sieg:

http://static.speedwaymotors.com/RS/SR/Product/8/91043305_L_17173348.jpg

Embarrassingly enough I have never seen those! I've been planning on Global West or Hotchkis bushings on my GW L2 springs. Is the end performance result of the slider considering the price difference comparable.......for a pro-tinkerer on a tight budget?




When Rudy brought his Pro Street Camaro up for a little R&R ----- one of the first things I noticed was that his rear end was in a bind.... the arc of the parallel bars was different than the arc that his leaf springs would allow... and the BIRD CAGE that was supposed to allow the rear to move (float) on the leafs was bolted down tight.... NO MOVEMENT ALLOWED.... So the two arcs where fighting each other - therefore noting was moving much. UGH!

Amazing what a little movement will do for a guys suspension... LOL

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Would be nice to have PAYING customers....


Then the high maintenance would be worth the effort.


I agree with him though -- get that weight as near center as possible....


Oh yeah -- and all the re-work helps keep him off the track.

There was a little misunderstanding with the inlet placement and deck lid center but you know wrong or right the customer gets what they want and I try to keep an open mind with off the wall stuff. One call made the choice.

Either way im cutting metal and sticking it back together right?

[Track Junky]

High maintenance customers FTW.

Gotta watch these guys like a hawk :lol: :lol: :lol:

J/K Vince. Thanks buddy!!

[Sieg]

Gaetano didn't like the cell so far back so we pushed it up 5 inches.

Snip here snip there and its back in.

Perfect! Now he's got a place for his golf clubs until he upgrades to a 15 or 18 gallon cell. :D

[intocarss]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

Talked to Sutton today. ordering the Penske 7500 DA's on Monday and its a 2 week build time.
Wont be able to slap them on for T-Hill in May because I have to extend my mounting points to 17 1/4" from 15" and vince wont have the time before May.
Longer rocker arm studs ordered. Should show Monday and hopefully Joe gets in there and does his thing. :)

[GregWeld]

Talked to Sutton today. ordering the Penske 7500 DA's on Monday and its a 2 week build time.
Wont be able to slap them on for T-Hill in May because I have to extend my mounting points to 17 1/4" from 15" and vince wont have the time before May.
Longer rocker arm studs ordered. Should show Monday and hopefully Joe gets in there and does his thing. :)



You'll still get your ass whipped by TheRookieSieg in a 252 hp Toyota motored plastic adult go kart.

[Track Junky]

You'll still get your ass whipped by TheRookieSieg in a 252 hp Toyota motored plastic adult go kart.

LOL....throw a timing device in that thing and we'll find out :unibrow:

[GregWeld]

LOL....throw a timing device in that thing and we'll find out :unibrow:




He's wearing leathers and plans to put it up on two wheels in the corners....

[Track Junky]

He's wearing leathers and plans to put it up on two wheels in the corners....

Sounds sexy!! Lip stick too?

[Sieg]

You'll still get your ass whipped by TheRookieSieg in a 252 hp Toyota motored plastic adult go kart.

Hey be fair............I have a slight weight advantage and enough fuel capacity to outlast him. :captain1:

:lol:

[Track Junky]

Hey be fair............I have a slight weight advantage and enough fuel capacity to outlast him. :captain1:

:lol:

Just don't forget the timing device.........And I don't mean a biased Weld with a stop watch :rolleyes:

[Sieg]

Just don't forget the timing device.........And I don't mean a biased Weld with a stop watch :rolleyes:
Greg biased? I'd like a second opinion from Charlie.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Greg biased? I'd like a second opinion from Charlie.
good luck with that. Charley's so hooked up that he doesn't tell time, time tells him.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

so we got the car stripped down and we found a few issues to fix, one being a 12 " crack running down his firewall to trans tunnel along with the Fred Flintstone floor pan.
Yikes man, I can't believe the seat didn't drop out of this thing. . We should have the sub frame assembly dropped out an a few hours, and hope to have everything fixed and back in by tomorrow afternoon.

[Track Junky]

Damn it is fugly in there. Take the time you need to do it up right Vince. And post up a pick of that crack.

[Flash68]

Perfect! Now he's got a place for his golf clubs until he upgrades to a 15 or 18 gallon cell. :D

What size is that cell?

Just don't forget the timing device.........And I don't mean a biased Weld with a stop watch :rolleyes:

I'll be there and I'm not biased. :D

with the Fred Flintstone floor pan.


:lol: gotta see this...

[Track Junky]

What size is that cell?

You mean surge tank? And it still weigh's 26 lbs....ouch

I'll be there and I'm not biased. :D

Cool

:lol: gotta see this...

You and me both.

BTW......Getting a laugh out of that avatar :lol:

[Sieg]

What size is that cell?
It twice the size of my KTM's stock tank. :secret:

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Track-Day/ORP-7-3-2010/i-Hqhgv3m/1/M/932515712_dsc_5575-M.jpg

[Track Junky]

As long as it holds enough fuel to run for 25 minutes flat out that's all that matters.
This aint no pro touring parade car.

[intocarss]

He's wearing leathers and plans to put it up on two wheels in the corners.... Them damn knee dragers

[Vince@Meanstreets]

got the shocks pulled out, sway bar positioning better. I'll work on the mount after I get The Black to the aligment shop this coming week.

The rest of the lower cage was tacked in and test fit. Very tight and right.

I think you'll be fine with 8 gals. I think you had a bit of fuel left over with the 5 gal fill.