69 Camaro at Best of Show [Archive] - Page 4

Matt@BOS

07-07-2011, 05:10 PM

So the bumpers finally came true! I asked Tyler about availability on a carbon front bumper in July of 2010 and he said he would pass it on to Matt.
I guess they decided to do the rear bumpers first.:thumbsup:

When I talked to Matt, he said that the Anvil team was working on a new front end that would integrate the bumper and lower fender extension all into a single piece. I saw an early version of it last year, when Tyler showed me, and it is pretty cool.

That said, I still think they should make a front bumper for those of us with done cars, that don't want to do anything more than bolt on a few parts, or for those that prefer the original lower valence.

Rich, I shot some pictures of the bumper for you, and will upload everything when I get a little more time. The spoiler more or less drops right in. You might have to get out a heat gun and change the angle on a few of the studs, but no additional drilling will be required as long as you have an original spoiler or regular Anvil one.

Redfire, the bumper bolts directly to the body, I think it is one of the few parts I've dealt with that actually installed in 10 minutes with basic hand tools.

Matt

67ragtp

07-07-2011, 05:19 PM

Thanks Matt , Appreciate you taking the time, looking forward to seeing them.

Rich

johnny68

07-07-2011, 09:32 PM

Bumper's nice but it looks a little fat (my opinion)....
fat have you seen the nova bumpers hahaha

Matt@BOS

07-08-2011, 09:03 PM

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0158.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0159.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0160.jpg

Hope these pics capture the angles you were looking for. If not, just let me know and I'll be happy to snap a few more over the weekend. I think part of the reason the bumper looks fat is because the spoiler is about half the height of a regular one. Also, don't mind the battery tender chord coming out of the trunk, hooked up to my I-won't-hold-a-charge Yellow Top Optima battery.

Oh, and before I forget, I've got a new issue to trouble shoot. we charged my AC and hooked everything up this week, and it isn't working. Basically, the compressor is getting juice, and the electric fans are turning on, but the compressor doesn't want to run. Any ideas? I'll be sweating my ass off in Fontana this weekend unless someone can come to the rescue with a tech tip lol.

Matt

GregWeld

07-08-2011, 09:14 PM

Your description isn't very complete. Does the compressor have a binary or trinary switch in line? If so -- it can be over charged or under charged. Hi pressure would turn the compressor off to "save it"... low pressure would not build enough "head pressure"...

To really charge a system like this - you need gauges etc. A vac down - pulling big time vacuum for like an hour... then charged up etc.

So when you say - it doesn't work.... what does that mean? Does the compressor clutch kick on? Does it cycle on and off repeatedly? Does it just not make cold air?

GregWeld

07-08-2011, 09:15 PM

You are giving the compressor 12V + to it's one and only wire (self grounded).

Matt@BOS

07-08-2011, 09:35 PM

Yes, sorry Greg. My description was beyond vague. We took it down the street to another shop to charge the AC. I believe it has a trinary switch. My understanding is that they hooked it up to their machine, pulled vacuum, etc. Basically they claimed it "should work" (everyone's famous last words) because the machine charged it without incident. When it didn't work, the mechanic over there took one look at the ISIS and said WTF. So, we tested it to see if it was getting its 12 volts and everything appeared to be golden. D!ck was pretty busy all day and only had a few minutes to look at it, and the first thing he noticed was that the compressor wasn't "locking up" and running. Does that mean the compressor clutch isn't kicking on? sorry for my complete lack of knowledge on this subject.

Also, when I turn the knob on for the AC, I can hear the relay click, but it doesn't appear to be blowing cold from the short amount of time that I had the car running when I got it back to the BOS. As far as I know, it has never cycled on and off.

Greg, I'm so happy that you have an addiction to this website and are on here tonight!

Matt

camcojb

07-08-2011, 10:01 PM

how did they charge the system if the compressor didn't turn on? Too low of pressure the compressor won't engage, just as too high of pressure cycles the compressor off. It's normal for the compressor to not immediately engage when you first start charging the system, as the pressure isn't up yet, but should click on fairly soon when adding the freon.

I guess my question is how they got the correct amount of pressure in the system if the compressor never engaged.

camcojb

07-08-2011, 10:08 PM

if it showed 12 volts to the compressor then I would assume the wiring and switch was okay, and start wondering about the compressor itself. Did they test for 12 volts at the compressor with the system on and engine running? You should be able to jump a 12 volt wire to the compressor and get the clutch to engage; you'll hear an audible click and see the clutch move. You can do that without the engine running to test the clutch/compressor.

If the clutch engages by jumping it but won't with the car running and a/c on then you either have a pressure problem (too low or too high the switch won't give the compressor the 12 volts it needs to engage the clutch) or the switch/wiring is incorrect, or bad switch.

67ragtp

07-09-2011, 04:46 AM

GregWeld

07-09-2011, 07:10 AM

Matt Man....

Sadly -- my life is so "gone" that all I can do is hang on this site... :rofl:

Hey --- seriously. The A/C shop should not concern itself with the ISIS. They only need to know the compressor is getting it's 12V+

Actually - sounds to me like it might be a "THERMOSTAT" issue... did you try changing the temp setting? Can you control the airflow? I.E., Defrost - heat - a/c etc. Then you'd know the unit is working the doors/air controllers... then cycle the heat and cold temp switch - see if you can get heat and heat to the defroster... after that -- it would seem you have an issue with the compressor clutch and or the trinary switch.

I always left the clutch control wire disconnected when my units aren't charged -- just to make sure I (or someone) didn't accidentally turn the thing on. So maybe look at the wiring on the trinary switch to see that all four are connected. After that... I'd be taking it to the shop and let D!ck figure it out cause we won't be able to do that from the forum.

GregWeld

07-09-2011, 07:12 AM

bulldog19

07-09-2011, 09:11 AM

Greg thanks for the tip on the battery charger!
John

69x22

07-09-2011, 09:38 AM

PS - Noticed the Battery Tender in the bumper shot. If you run an OPTIMA or any brand of AGM style battery -- don't use the Battery Tender. You'll need a tender that can regulate itself for the AGMs. Personally I use CTEK's.

Greg, what will happen if you use a regular battery tender on a Optima? I've been using one on my truck for 9 years and 2 different yellow tops and haven't had any issues. Kinda got me worried now.

69x22

07-09-2011, 09:44 AM

Matt this is one of my favorite cars on this site so please don't shoot me when I say I liked the old spoiler and bumper on your car. I guess if it had different (darker) wheels the CF spoiler and bumper would look nicer. Just my opinion.

phillym5

07-09-2011, 08:51 PM

Gordz32

07-10-2011, 09:14 AM

Hey Matt, Make sure that your getting the 12 volts when the a/c is switched on from the compressor wire, if so, I know it sounds stupid but check to make sure that the compressor itself is showing zero resistance against the engine block. In otherwords make sure its grounded. I know its all metal on metal and it sounds stupid but I've seen it before. Goodluck!

Matt@BOS

07-12-2011, 11:49 AM

Greg, Jody and Chris, thank you guys for lending suggestions. I'm going to follow your advice and see if I can get this thing working. I'm hoping for my own sake that it the issue is horribly stupid and simple. If you don't see me responding with a fix, I might be too embarrassed to admit what went wrong :lol:

Despite the lack of AC the Hotchkis sponsored autocross at the NMCA event went well. I didn't break anything, which in and of itself meant that it was a good weekend. The Socal gang was out in force, and our old pro-touring cars were all towards the top of the heap in regard to lap times. I was having so much fun I forgot to take pictures. Even got a few rides from fellow members like Deanna, Carl and Tom who brought out his newly roadworthy Chevelle. All in all a great weekend!

Matt@BOS

07-12-2011, 03:00 PM

I agree... and i've told him in person... he tried to smack me.. but i ducked and got out of there!!

There is a reason we haven't talked in the last month, and it isn't because you've been busy skating all over the place.

Seriously though, I'm probably going to do something with the back end of the car. I'll probably paint the spoiler. I prefer the look of the chrome on the rear of the car, but I hate the shape of the stock bumper, so I don't know what to do. Since I like to pretend it's a race car on the weekends, we're going to make to make a carbon fiber bumper for it. Should drop a few pounds off the front. So, if anyone wants a CF front bumper, let me know, and we'll pull another one!

Oh, and because everyone like videos, Chad Ryker, was kind enough to lend me his go pro for one of my autocross runs:

_lP72MMBN1w

Matt

Hotchkis

07-13-2011, 10:16 AM

Matt@BOS

09-07-2011, 04:13 PM

Here is a little more proof that show cars do get beaten on (at least a little):

ZzQKVqLzCQY
Big thanks to Brett Habegger for taking and posting this video, among a bunch more on pro-touring.

I spent labor day over at the Orange County fair grounds for the OC Labor Day Cruise. For the last several years Barry's Speed Shop has sponsored a little good guys like autocross, and this year was no exception. The speeds might have been kept low, but there was still plenty of fun to be had. With only a handful of cars in attendance, and a well though out entrance/exit system at opposite ends of the course, the amount of runs a person could make was really only limited by how fast a person could get back to the entrance. I was chasing after Brett Campbell and his amazing '68 'vert all weekend. Brett has built quite a car, and try as I might, I never could catch him. I probably put about 50 runs in my Camaro in pursuit though.

The car is getting more dialed in, and I'm becoming more comfortable driving it. I've noticed it pushes a little through corners, albeit not much. Initial turn it is remarkably good though. The front tires I've been running might be to blame. They are questionable at best. They once belonged to the One Lap Camaro and were borrowed by Bad Penny for the second day of RTTC. I really should get a picture of them. While they still have tread left, they are just about the most thoroughly abused tires I've ever seen.

I'll have some more updates in the future. My car got hit by a tire shred while driving on the freeway, and so I've decided to take the opportunity to fix a few nagging little issues, and clean her up. I'm thinking it might be fun to take it back to a certain show in November.

Matt

cencalc6

09-07-2011, 04:19 PM

I just went thru your whole build.What a Great job you did on this car :thumbsup:

69x22

09-07-2011, 04:55 PM

Matt that's a beautiful car and it looks like you are getting it sorted out.

Vegas69

09-07-2011, 05:12 PM

Your driving has come a country mile. Sorting and seat time are definitely a huge factor. You were hauling ass on that little merry go round.

Gandalf

09-07-2011, 08:44 PM

Awesome job Matt! Love the vid! It's great to watch you drive - seems you've come a long ways and of coarse it's even better that you hammer on that show-winning car.

Mmmmm.....might just "come take a look-see in november ;-)

Gregg

Matt@BOS

09-08-2011, 11:23 AM

I just went thru your whole build.What a Great job you did on this car :thumbsup:

Thanks! I'm looking forward to seeing your car on the road too.

Matt that's a beautiful car and it looks like you are getting it sorted out.

Thanks, getting it sorted out has taken some time, but suspension wise, it has been pretty easy. Everything is from DSE, so all I've had to do is fine tune some shocks and potentially change an anti-sway bar.

Your driving has come a country mile. Sorting and seat time are definitely a huge factor. You were hauling ass on that little merry go round.

Todd, you should have seen Brett work his way around the cones in that lot. You know when you get to the point where you think your car is fast, then someone takes you for a ride where you start looking for the brake on the passenger side footwell? That is what Brett did to me. :lol:

Awesome job Matt! Love the vid! It's great to watch you drive - seems you've come a long ways and of coarse it's even better that you hammer on that show-winning car.

Mmmmm.....might just "come take a look-see in november ;-)

Gregg

November? From what I hear we may be seeing a lot of your car in the days leading up to November.

GregWeld

12-20-2011, 08:21 AM

Matt..... Gwen and I will be doing driving school at Bondurant (she the beginner and I the Grand Prix) begining March 19th. Come out and race with me!!

Matt@BOS

12-20-2011, 12:40 PM

Matt..... Gwen and I will be doing driving school at Bondurant (she the beginner and I the Grand Prix) begining March 19th. Come out and race with me!!

Funny you should say that, my dad just tentitively planned a trip out there for sometime in the second half of March. One of the instructors over there, Danny, said he would see about changing up the regular grand prix class to include a little autocross training one day. Not sure if that is something you're interested in or not?

GregWeld

12-20-2011, 04:17 PM

Steve68

12-20-2011, 06:37 PM

looks like a track set up around a bunch of gas pumps, really tight,

car looks great!

Matt@BOS

12-21-2011, 09:36 AM

If I can learn something -- I'm up for ANYTHING they'll allow.

I worked with BRUCE -- so if you want to check our dates etc -- he's got 'em. We can't change our dates due to other commitments... but that's when we'll be there!

Alright then, I'll make sure to book for the same week. What do you always say? oh yeah, YEEEEEAAAAAH!

This should be fun. I'm going to bring my heel-toe off ramp downshifting skills to school this time around. Better watch out :lol:

Matt

GregWeld

12-21-2011, 12:31 PM

Great!

Swain

01-16-2012, 01:07 PM

Thanks again for bringing your car up for the Photo Shoot

Should have more pics in about 2 weeks.

Bryce

01-16-2012, 01:30 PM

Matt,

Your car looks so small! HAHA.

Matt@BOS

01-17-2012, 08:30 PM

Matt,

Your car looks so small! HAHA.

Haha, sure does. That picture will have to go down as reference for people who can't decide between a new one and or an old one and are looking to get a loud fast car as a way of compensating for... well, nevermind.

Bryce, pm your phone number again. I need to give you a call. Things got busy and it just slipped my mind.

Matt

Bryce

01-17-2012, 11:02 PM

eight five eight 472 three eight seven three

coolwelder62

01-18-2012, 05:57 PM

I saw this amazing camaro when we were leaving the SEMA show.WOW!!.Awesome.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Swain

01-25-2012, 12:16 PM

Few shots of my Fiancee and I at Barona when we used Matt's car for the Engagement shoot.

Matt@BOS

01-26-2012, 10:05 AM

Photos came out nice Jay! :thumbsup:

Matt@BOS

01-26-2012, 10:07 AM

69x22

01-26-2012, 04:33 PM

Sweet! The car is nice too!

Few shots of my Fiancee and I at Barona when we used Matt's car for the Engagement shoot.

Ron in SoCal

01-26-2012, 07:32 PM

I saw this amazing camaro when we were leaving the SEMA show.WOW!!.Awesome.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Scott, I remember thinking the same thing when I saw your car, or Albert's car. I also remember thinking, "who's that guy driving Albert's car?" :lol:

Matt

So I'm driving the Van out of SEMA filming the Optima car parade down Las Vegas Blvd. Traffic jam like a mofo, rain, gawkers, you name it. I look to my left and there's Matt in his 'not black car' (lug nuts and all) smiling, waving yelling over the traffic. He fit in perfect. It was freakin' classic...:thumbsup:

Vegas69

01-26-2012, 07:37 PM

I didn't know you were recouping build cost pimpin out your girl?:unibrow:

Good luck Swain, your life is over.

Matt@BOS

01-27-2012, 08:54 AM

I didn't know you were recouping build cost pimpin out your girl?:unibrow:

Good luck Swain, your life is over.

Last year I was under this mistaken belief that "our" Camaro was done. Since my dad never drives it, and I keep breaking stuff, I keep having to throw money at it. Unaware of this a year ago, I bought an old pile of a Ford, yes I know, a Ford, to work on. I always wanted to get my hands a littler dirtier than I did with the Camaro, so I figured it wouldn't be too expensive if I just worked on this Ford and did the metal work under the guidance of the guys at BOS. Turns out I can't make anything inexpensive, so old parts have to go, and my girl has to occasional hit the street for a little work :unibrow:

Matt

DOOM

01-27-2012, 09:04 AM

Swain

01-27-2012, 09:06 AM

I didn't know you were recouping build cost pimpin out your girl?:unibrow:

Good luck Swain, your life is over.

Ya I know now I just want kids hahah

Matt@BOS

01-27-2012, 09:30 AM

Matt when you get a chance can you take a close up shot of your front wheel? I want to see how much of a concave the front wheel has. I love the look of the rear but for some reason the fronts look flat to me...

Sure thing Mario. I'll post one up tonight. The fronts are kind of flat. It is a real subtle angle. I think they would have looked way more concave in 19" but I was afraid of running a 275/30/19; I was afraid of all the attention I might get if people thought I was Dougie Fresh.

Vegas69

01-27-2012, 03:11 PM

Ya I know now I just want kids hahah

I had to give you crap because I'm in the same boat. :D
Sure thing Mario. I'll post one up tonight. The fronts are kind of flat. It is a real subtle angle. I think they would have looked way more concave in 19" but I was afraid of running a 275/30/19; I was afraid of all the attention I might get if people thought I was Dougie Fresh.

I noticed this in the photos of the first set that was pictured. I kept my big yapper shut but the angles don't look the same to me.

Swain

01-27-2012, 03:50 PM

I had to give you crap because I'm in the same boat. :D

I noticed this in the photos of the first set that was pictured. I kept my big yapper shut but the angles don't look the same to me.

I know I saw the post a month or so ago. Now it's my turn haha

Matt@BOS

01-27-2012, 07:05 PM

I know I saw the post a month or so ago. Now it's my turn haha

You should make your own post so that everyone can make fun of you. Like you said, "now it's my turn."

Ok Mario. Got a couple shots for you, please excuse the quality. I don't have an iPhone 4S like Greg Weld.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0386.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0387.jpg

And, because I'm so proud of my ability to make noise operating a grinder and my basic welding skills, here is a sneak peak of my new project. It is probably hard to tell in pictures, but it has been Camaro-ized :unibrow:

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0377.jpg

Matt

Gordz32

01-28-2012, 10:18 AM

Cars are looking good Matt, I was wondering when I'd start to see pictures of the mustang.

Swain

01-28-2012, 10:56 AM

Matt pm me your email. We have some nice shots of your car we want to send you

DOOM

01-28-2012, 02:48 PM

Matt...... Thanx!! I'm runnin 19's I may have to ask Jon if he has any pictures. I think this wheel is awsome but I would like to see the front with more of a concave ..

Matt@BOS

01-31-2012, 09:03 AM

Cars are looking good Matt, I was wondering when I'd start to see pictures of the mustang.

Hey Chris, how have you been? I want to say I tried sending a message back to you a while ago, but your pm box was full. Everything going well up in Washington? Is the Hell Camino on the road these days?

Matt

Matt@BOS

03-06-2012, 12:02 AM

Living within a within a hundred miles of El Toro makes it just too easy to pull the car out of the garage and head out for a little fun. So... I decided that better pull the oil pan with Dick and toss in the Improved racing windage tray for the F-Body pan. My engine was sucking up and burning a fair amount of oil I could hear the thing knocking sometimes.

Turns out pulling the oil pan isn't that much fun. Since we were taking everything apart it was a good time to replace a balancer bolt that backed off while on a dyno session, as well as just clean everything up in general. Didn't really want to be thrashing on the car, but this kind of stuff just seems to happen. Hopefully everything is back tomorrow. I also need to try and get the car re-tuned, it has a horrible flat spot off idle, and if you don't slip the clutch ver carefully, and give it some revs it just lugs. It doesn't stall, but it won't rev up for a good amount of time.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0444.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0443.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0446.jpg

The shop has some colorful Camaros right now, I think there will be a grand total of seven or eight first gens crammed in there before El Toro. Gregg (Gandalf) still needs to bring his '69 in for a once over, and when he does BOS will look like a bag of skittles!

Matt

Vegas69

03-06-2012, 07:43 AM

Dude, you have 2 days.:wow:

Cris@JCG

03-06-2012, 08:07 AM

Matt & the crew @ BOS probably pull & install that motor in that car faster than you take to adjust your valve lash! :D

Dude, you have 2 days.:wow:

Vegas69

03-06-2012, 08:08 AM

:lol:

Gandalf

03-06-2012, 08:24 AM

I don't know Matt..... those BOS oil changes always end up costing a bunch more with all the "well, while I'm in here I may as well <fill in the blank>" :lol:

I'll bet with that new baffle and some good oil you will see a nice performance gain :unibrow:

G.

Matt@BOS

03-06-2012, 09:07 AM

Dude, you have 2 days.:wow:

Dude, WE have three days, but who is counting? Dick has plenty of experience swapping out Bad Penny's engines, in a day if he has to. I figure cleaning out and engine and checking it over is simpler. There was a little piece of aluminum casting in the bottom of the pan. No shavings or anything though. Not sure what that was about, but that's why we took it out to check over. Throw in some Royal Purple, and maybe I'll have enough power to play with Paypack :lol:

Matt

fleet

03-06-2012, 11:58 AM

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0444.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0443.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0446.jpg

Matt

That'll buff out. :thumbsup:

Gandalf

03-06-2012, 12:06 PM

WE have three days, but who is counting?
Matt

Dear Matt's mom..... please tell your son he only has TWO days and then to get Barney out of the shop - I have to check my fluids and empty my mufflers.

Thank you,
G. :rofl:

Matt@BOS

03-06-2012, 01:20 PM

Dear Matt's mom..... please tell your son he only has TWO days and then to get Barney out of the shop - I have to check my fluids and empty my mufflers.

Thank you,
G. :rofl:

Truer words were never spoken. She knows as long as it is there I will find ways of spending my money on it. She would also rather have me spend some quality time with the car than the former girlfriend who is in town this week. However, she knows as soon As I stop throwing money at my car, my dad will have a spot to throw her money at his car!

DFRESH

03-06-2012, 09:03 PM

Matt@BOS

03-07-2012, 08:54 PM

So Matt, tell me/us about the mod to the oil pan---looks like a windage tray--but it's for oil control I believe you said----would be curious as to its exact function and how you guys arrived at this paticular mod---looks like a stock LS pan.

Whatever you do, make sure it's ready to go by Friday morning--

D

Sure thing Doug. Let me do my best Todd impersonation. Hell, this is really just a long involved post about about me changing oil, and a few other things, and that's something Todd would do, right? Oh, and I was wearing black rubber gloves while working on my car, that is definitely Todd like :lol:

Let me retry this whole thing with some explanations/captions. I'm using the stock F-Body style windage tray (pictured below). I have been running this part since I got my car on the road.
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0443.jpg

This little bugger in the oil pan is what is new though. From what I've heard, it is a vast improvement over the stock baffled insert, which barely qualifies as a baffle when you hold the two side by side. I chose this for two reasons. First and foremost, my car has just been sucking up oil when going to the track. At Adam's Motorsports Park out in Riverside, roughly 20 laps around the little track completely filled up my catch can, to the point that it was no longer functioning, and was sucking oil through the PCV line from the valley to the intake manifold. Under normal driving conditions the catch can collects a little bit of oil, but nothing out of the ordinary. I think I've just been experiencing one of the known shortcomings of LS engines with stock oiling systems, and that is that these engines are prone to lots of oil aeration at high RPMs, as well as oil starvation. The other reason I decided to use the Improved Racing trap door baffle was because I wanted to keep my F-Body pan for two reasons. First, it is supposed to provide some structural support to the engine, and second, I'm not running a remote oil filter, which I believe is required with a Canton pan.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0444.jpg

Here is a video someone posted on youtube showing how effective the little trap door baffles supposedly are:
l6TPVx4W2O0

Is that a good explanation Doug?

Matt

Vegas69

03-07-2012, 10:14 PM

Not bad sir. :D To think LS engines aren't perfect and Jason Pettis was right, stock LS oiling ain't that great.

Matt@BOS

03-07-2012, 11:15 PM

Not bad sir. :D To think LS engines aren't perfect and Jason Pettis was right, stock LS oiling ain't that great.

Yeah, I'm probably not a good enough driver to have blown my engine up. Not sure if that is a good thing, or a bad thing. I have been worried about it though, and hopefully this gets my oil situation under control.

We're also a day behind schedule. I was hoping to get the car dyno tuned today, but putting everything back together and getting fluids back in it took longer than expected. We had to jack the front of the car up to fill the radiator and get the thermostat working again.

Tomorrow I'm hoping that TurnKey can get rid of a few pesky issues. The car almost refuses to drive at altitude, which isn't a huge deal because I'm not in the mountains often, however, I've always had to slip the clutch more than I'm comfortable with to get the car to go, and I really want to see if we can tune that out.

As you guys can see though, she's back together now!
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0448.jpg

Matt

Payton King

03-08-2012, 07:47 AM

I put that same baffel in my F-Body pan. It works great.

syborg tt

03-09-2012, 08:43 AM

Okay so where can I buy this baffled Windage Tray

Sure thing Doug. Let me do my best Todd impersonation. Hell, this is really just a long involved post about about me changing oil, and a few other things, and that's something Todd would do, right? Oh, and I was wearing black rubber gloves while working on my car, that is definitely Todd like :lol:

Let me retry this whole thing with some explanations/captions. I'm using the stock F-Body style windage tray (pictured below). I have been running this part since I got my car on the road.
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0443.jpg

This little bugger in the oil pan is what is new though. From what I've heard, it is a vast improvement over the stock baffled insert, which barely qualifies as a baffle when you hold the two side by side. I chose this for two reasons. First and foremost, my car has just been sucking up oil when going to the track. At Adam's Motorsports Park out in Riverside, roughly 20 laps around the little track completely filled up my catch can, to the point that it was no longer functioning, and was sucking oil through the PCV line from the valley to the intake manifold. Under normal driving conditions the catch can collects a little bit of oil, but nothing out of the ordinary. I think I've just been experiencing one of the known shortcomings of LS engines with stock oiling systems, and that is that these engines are prone to lots of oil aeration at high RPMs, as well as oil starvation. The other reason I decided to use the Improved Racing trap door baffle was because I wanted to keep my F-Body pan for two reasons. First, it is supposed to provide some structural support to the engine, and second, I'm not running a remote oil filter, which I believe is required with a Canton pan.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0444.jpg

Here is a video someone posted on youtube showing how effective the little trap door baffles supposedly are:
l6TPVx4W2O0

Is that a good explanation Doug?

Matt

Moparigno

03-10-2012, 09:57 AM

Hi, I like your exhaust tips. Where you got it ?

Matt@BOS

03-11-2012, 04:15 PM

Marty, it can be ordered through improvedracing.com :D

Still don't know how well the pan actually works. I made only a few passes at RTTC this weekend. I figured it would be fun to keep things a little quiet, until I was there, but I swapped more than just an oil pan. My LS2 needed to be gone through, and I wanted to add more power to it. Turns out it was cheaper to buy an entire motor. I need to thank David Pozzi for letting go of Bad Penny's old 454 LS2. It dropped right in. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that something went wrong when it was being dyno'd. I'm going to figure out exactly what is wrong next week.

Moparigno, the exhaust tips are from the Mercedes parts department. They are off of an SLK, if I remember correctly...

Matt

syborg tt

03-11-2012, 07:32 PM

Marty, it can be ordered through improvedracing.com :D

Thank you

Still don't know how well the pan actually works. I made only a few passes at RTTC this weekend. I figured it would be fun to keep things a little quiet, until I was there, but I swapped more than just an oil pan. My LS2 needed to be gone through, and I wanted to add more power to it. Turns out it was cheaper to buy an entire motor. I need to thank David Pozzi for letting go of Bad Penny's old 454 LS2. It dropped right in. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that something went wrong when it was being dyno'd. I'm going to figure out exactly what is wrong next week.

454 LS2 - that is Awesome. I love that motor

Maybe version 2 of the 2nd Chance Camaro will get that motor. :hail:

Bryan O

03-11-2012, 08:19 PM

^^^And I never got my hush money. :mad:

Matt@BOS

03-11-2012, 10:16 PM

Thank you

454 LS2 - that is Awesome. I love that motor

Maybe version 2 of the 2nd Chance Camaro will get that motor. :hail:

Marty, it is entirely possible that in the time that it takes you to get the 2nd Chance Camaro on the road, you might have the opportunity to by a newer one of Penny's engines - and I'm not making a jab at you based on how long the last project took. If the second chance Camaro took that long you'd probably get Penny's old flux capacitor :unibrow:

Bryan, sorry but the hush money I had stashed away for you will probably be going towards a new head gasket, and whatever else carnage I will be looking at once it gets torn down. I'm hoping for the best, (but the coolant, of which there is a noticeable amount missing) appears to have some oil in it. It spit a bit of white smoke when I picked it up from the dyno shop, and got up between 210-230 on my way back home from RTTC. I'm guessing that when the radiator cap blew off on the dyno, it was because of the blown head gasket. I'm certainly no mechanic, so hopefully I'm wrong...

Matt

syborg tt

03-12-2012, 12:56 PM

Marty, it is entirely possible that in the time that it takes you to get the 2nd Chance Camaro on the road, you might have the opportunity to by a newer one of Penny's engines - and I'm not making a jab at you based on how long the last project took. If the second chance Camaro took that long you'd probably get Penny's old flux capacitor :unibrow:

Matt

Dude that hurt :rofl:

Chad-1stGen

03-12-2012, 01:55 PM

Sucks to hear about your motor problems Matt :/

Good luck with an easy diagnoses.

Matt@BOS

03-12-2012, 07:41 PM

Sucks to hear about your motor problems Matt :/

Good luck with an easy diagnoses.

Thanks Chad!

Had the guys down the street at JR Competition do a leak down test on the car. Cylinders 5,7 and 8 are all pushing air into my coolant. Needless to say, I'm pretty upset. Re-sleeved blocks should be brought up to temperature and then need to have the head bolts re-torqued, so long as you're using ARP bolts, for example, and not torque to yield factory ones. This is expressly stated by Steve Demirjian of Race Engine Development who re-sleeved the block for Steve Rupp. Between Dick and I we must have asked the shop that dyno'd the car to be sure to re-torque the head bolts half a dozen times. The last time Dick asked, they said they checked a bunch of them and they were tight. What the hell does that mean??? I wouldn't be so upset, except for the fact that in this scenario it is hard to imagine the head gaskets failing for any other reason...

Good news is that it doesn't look like I have water in my oil.

Matt

Ron in SoCal

03-12-2012, 08:40 PM

Thanks Chad!

Had the guys down the street at JR Competition do a leak down test on the car. Cylinders 5,7 and 8 are all pushing air into my coolant. Needless to say, I'm pretty upset. Re-sleeved blocks should be brought up to temperature and then need to have the head bolts re-torqued, so long as you're using ARP bolts, for example, and not torque to yield factory ones. This is expressly stated by Steve Demirjian of Race Engine Development who re-sleeved the block for Steve Rupp. Between Dick and I we must have asked the shop that dyno'd the car to be sure to re-torque the head bolts half a dozen times. The last time Dick asked, they said they checked a bunch of them and they were tight. What the hell does that mean??? I wouldn't be so upset, except for the fact that in this scenario it is hard to imagine the head gaskets failing for any other reason...

Good news is that it doesn't look like I have water in my oil.

Matt

FCUK...!!! You know how I feel about that Matt. Remember all the smoke at the gas station? How wierd was that? :(

Hope the repair goes quick Bro. At his point I'd check everything. JR knows what he's doing...

KPC67

03-12-2012, 10:15 PM

Not cool Matt. I hope it gets resolved without too much hassle. This just makes me even more nervous about finding a quality shop to work on my 454.
Let us know how you make out.

Tom.A

03-12-2012, 10:24 PM

Bummer Matt. Hopefully you get it squared and can make the Socal Challenge at Adams later this month.

phillym5

03-12-2012, 10:25 PM

Damn... that sucks Matt.

At least you have JR on it... he's the man!!

Matt@BOS

03-12-2012, 11:09 PM

Yeah Josh, I think I'm going to have JR put things back together. I'll probably break the top end down myself and I'm thinking of pulling the accessory drive off the front so that I can shim or replace the oil pump so that I'm getting more oil pressure. Ordinarily I'd be fine with 10-15 lbs at idle because the pressure jumps up as RPMs climb, but with the abuse that the car is going to take, it is always better to err on the side of caution. As much as my wallet would probably like me to take it back to the place that dyno'd and built the engine with Steve, I'm fed up with their lack of attention to detail, and despite the fact that I think they're a good group of guys, and more than reasonable to work with, at some point, I have to say enough is enough. I'm a firm believer that you always need to give a shop a second chance, sometimes a third because stuff just goes wrong in this hobby. However, the weak point of my car has always been its engine. The old engine never ran right, and well... the new one was likely broken under their care. I'm no expert with LS engines, but I've come to take their advice with a grain of salt, and been justified in doing so multiple times. Writing this has been good, because as I've been typing this out, I realized, even if they put the engine back together on their dollar, I'm not going to trust that it was done right. I'd love to save a little money getting this back together, but I also want to have a car that runs well enough that I can put all of my attention towards sorting out the suspension, and the idiot behind the wheel.

The only question I have now is how much I trust them at all, because that will dictate how far I take the engine down. How many mistakes can what I consider to be a fairly reputable shop make?

That concludes my rant for today! :lol:

Matt

waynieZ

03-13-2012, 02:36 PM

Sorry to hear this Matt, I be hoping for the best for you.

fleet

03-13-2012, 03:52 PM

The only question I have now is how much I trust them at all, because that will dictate how far I take the engine down. How many mistakes can what I consider to be a fairly reputable shop make?

Matt

Heard this... makes a lot of sense IMO.

"Who you trust determines your future."

awr68

03-13-2012, 04:09 PM

Always go with your gut......:cheers:

BODYSHOPMARO

03-13-2012, 04:40 PM

:thumbsup: :unibrow: :yes: :wow: looks good!

tones2SS

03-13-2012, 05:25 PM

Sorry to hear about the engine Matt. Hopefully you're able to thrash that beast again soon.

Matt@BOS

03-17-2012, 02:49 PM

Well guys... It is coming back out. the number one cylinder sleeve is scored pretty badly, so it looks like we'll be dropping in a new sleeve, which is easier than boring everything out from 4.185 to 4.200 and replacing pistons, etc. Not sure what the rings looks like yet, but we'll be finding out soon. It's a shame it wasn't something simple like replacing two head gaskets, but rebuilding it from the ground up gives a lot of added piece of mind. Just from looking at things, it doesn't look like I did any of this damage this weekend, meaning that it has been in this condition since it was in Penny, and remained this way after being "freshened up." I need to give a big shout out to Steve Rupp for volunteering to help get this thing back together. He could have told me to take it up with the company that looked it over after he pulled it out of his car, or just chalked it up to getting a used motor, but he didn't. The car will live again. It probably won't be ready to drive two weeks from now, but that's why I've got a Ford :lol:

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0460.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0461.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0462.jpg

Matt

Spiffav8

03-17-2012, 03:28 PM

Matt,

That's a real bummer. Sorry to hear the bad news. Pretty sure this is how things end up getting faster though. :lol:

Hope it's not to much of a pain.

:cheers:

Ron in SoCal

03-17-2012, 04:53 PM

Hope it's not to much of a pain.

:cheers:

Sorry Bro :( I know you'll come back strong!

GregWeld

03-17-2012, 05:12 PM

Todd asked ME to tell you -- "that stuff don't happen in Big Blocks"...

:willy: :rofl:

Sorry to see this -- but in the end -- you'll have a better motor and all fresh etc.

Flash68

03-17-2012, 05:39 PM

Big bummer Matt... so... while you're in down in there you might as well.... :willy:

Gandalf

03-17-2012, 09:09 PM

Hope you are up and running and back in the game soon Matt. At least I got to experience this engine in your car - even if it was running on coolant and 7cyl! Still felt strong on the auotcross!

G.

Matt@BOS

03-18-2012, 11:07 AM

Todd asked ME to tell you -- "that stuff don't happen in Big Blocks"...

:willy: :rofl:

Sorry to see this -- but in the end -- you'll have a better motor and all fresh etc.

Greg, tell Todd that it is pretty hard to break a boat anchor.

I'm thinking of swapping out manifolds when I put everything back together. the one on the car is really pretty, but it doesn't really flow enough air for 454 cubes. With something better, it should make some very respectable numbers which not a whole lot of small blocks make. When it was first put together it made 540 lb-ft of torque at 3500 rpm and peaked around 610. On second thought, I really don't *need* a different manifold, even if it's costing me 20-30 hp/tq.

What I really needed last weekend was a set of rear tires that haven't travelled across the country and been to the track on several different cars. Gregg, I think you had some fun with me spinning out? :lol:

Matt

Gandalf

03-18-2012, 12:08 PM

Gregg, I think you had some fun with me spinning out? :lol:

On the autocross, yes. Running into your off-track-excursion dust-cloud at speed on the roadcoarse.... not so much lol.

waynieZ

03-18-2012, 12:12 PM

Matt That sucks! Sorry for your troubles. I hope you get it together without any more surprises Lord knows you need a break. Keep the faith brother.

DFRESH

03-18-2012, 07:08 PM

Matt@BOS

03-18-2012, 08:07 PM

Man, that blows brother! See if Rupp can turn it into an article for CP--make something good out of it at least.

Thank you for the video--will have one of those in my LS3 before it hits the street for sure---along with an accumulator.

I think for your 454 you should try the new Holley manifold along with some dyno testing---while the motor is out, you might as well--especially since it's not my money.

What will you be at Del Mar with? If solo, will you dare do a ride along in the OLJ?

D

Doug, are you talking about the Holley/Jenvey cross ram manifold? When I saw that thing I started looking at all the old parts on my shelf, and trying to figure out what I could sell. That thing is trick!

As for Del Mar, I'll be there. Riding in the OLJ would be a dream come true! I would would trade ride alongs for beer, but I want to go for more than one ride in the OLJ with you. On Sunday I'll take the Mustang out.

Matt@BOS

03-18-2012, 08:09 PM

On the autocross, yes. Running into your off-track-excursion dust-cloud at speed on the roadcoarse.... not so much lol.

Heh, I never thought about it before, but Aqua Girl seems to have a penchant for getting covered in other car's dust clouds at El Toro :lol:

Matt

Payton King

03-19-2012, 07:05 AM

Matt@BOS

04-16-2012, 10:52 PM

Hate that your motor broke. Look forward to you getting it back on the road. Sometimes it always seems one step forward, two steps back. Good luck to you and keep us posted. Car is too nice to sit around.

Thanks for the kind words Payton!

It has been about a month now I guess, and it is time for a little update.

I took the block over to Steve Demirjian of Race Engine Dynamics. After looking at it for about five minutes he came to the conclusion that it was pretty effed up. The passenger side cylinder bank saw some serious heat at some point, and all of the cylinders were out of round. Additionally the sleeves, which interlock had still managed to move, some might have sunken a hair. Basically it could be bored out from 4.185 to 4.200, however that still wouldn't insure that it wouldn't leak at all when hot.

In other words, that block is done. Since the engine came with a "Rupp warrantee" rather than get a new block, Steve has offered to raid his parts shelf so that we can put together a 416 LS engine. We could have done a 427 LS3, but I prefer the shorter stroke of the 416 LS3 for something that is going to see plenty of miles, some of which will be hard miles. I've got a couple of ideas on a few cool (looking) parts, but nothing is set in stone at the moment. Oh, and I will likely be tossing out the MEFI 4 computer...

In other news, I just bought a pair of 550 lb front springs, and have decided to downsize my brake master cylinders. When will it ever end :willy:

In the meantime I've been having too much fun with my newish GT500. I picked it up with only a thousand miles on it. The previous owner tossed a set of Eibach springs on (I have no idea what kind) and I've put tires on it. With only those two modifications it absolutely flies. Just ask David Pozzi :lol: We traded off driving it at MATS in Vegas this last weekend, and it managed to hang with all of the heavily modified new Camaros and Challengers. I think I'll be taking it to Buttonwillow in September :unibrow:

Matt

Flash68

04-16-2012, 11:54 PM

Well that was quick!

I like the 416 idea. keep the stroke shorter. But I hope you bring the Camaro to Buttonwillow.... :thumbsup:

That warranty was gold huh? :unibrow:

Matt@BOS

04-17-2012, 08:42 AM

Well that was quick!

I like the 416 idea. keep the stroke shorter. But I hope you bring the Camaro to Buttonwillow.... :thumbsup:

That warranty was gold huh? :unibrow:

I wouldn't say it was quick just yet. Maybe I shouldn't have divulged my plans without having parts and pictures to post. I could have played the "I have a fancy secret new engine that is going to be uber-cool" card. We'll see who gets gets back on the road first :thumbsup:

And as much as I think it might be fun to take the Camaro up there, I have a fear of blowing it up 300 miles from home since I don't have a trailer. Also I don't want all of the rock chips from being stuck behind you guys to get on that car. It is almost too pretty. The GT500 already has chips, and its cheaper to repaint that car :lol:

Matt

Nessumsar

04-17-2012, 09:08 AM

Payton King

04-17-2012, 12:08 PM

Matt@BOS

04-17-2012, 04:47 PM

But I have heard of problems with 45X stroker motors with the piston coming too far out of the bore at the bottom of the stroke and causing piston rock, scuffing, etc. Not sure if that caused the problems and the out-of-round cylinders.

What did you end up on the master sizing? I landed on 3/4 front and 3/4 rear. Did you change pads as well?

I have a 550 lbs in the front of mine and it works well, what are you running in the rear?

Right now I've got 7/8" front and rear. Originally I wanted the pedal really solid because it slows the car down from high speeds incredibly smoothly. Threshold braking is easy. It is hard to lock the brakes up, but not impossible by any means. however, trailing off the brakes smoothly is hard because there is so little travel. I haven't taken the car on a track with a lot of momentum based turns, yet, but that is where the smaller master cylinders will make a big difference for me. On little autocrosses it should help to as the change might afford me a little more initial bite.

As for the springs, I'm running 250 lbs in the rear with the smaller of DSE's two rear sway bars. The car has good initial turn in, but pushes a bit mid corner. When I was out at RTTC the car wanted to spin when entering corners fast. I'm hoping that that the 550 lb springs up front will help the car from transferring too much weight too quickly, and that the smaller master cylinders should give the idiot behind the wheel slightly better control of the brakes to help settle the car in turns as well. Hopefully we will find out soon!

Matt

Matt@BOS

04-17-2012, 04:51 PM

Glad to hear she is in the process of coming back together. You gotta bring it out to Bwillow though! Throw on a clear bra (on the car...) and rent a trailer from Uhaul if you have to.

How are you liking your pedals now that you've had some time on them?

Alright, I might bring it out. The Mustang is a lot of fun though, and I don't really have to worry about breaking anything. The last thing I want to do is tow it back to the shop and fix something. Again.

Now, about the pedal. I like them, but as I mentioned in my last post, I want to change the feel of the brake pedal.

Matt

radrambler

04-17-2012, 04:53 PM

:thumbsup:

Matt glad to hear your engine is moving forward. The Mustang sounds like its a nice substitute at the track.. Car is sharp with its subtle mods.:cool:

Tom

Frankenstine

04-17-2012, 07:15 PM

any picks of the Tang ?

Matt@BOS

04-18-2012, 10:29 AM

any picks of the Tang ?

Got a deal on the car that was too good to pass up. It was lowered an inch, and it had really ugly Fesler wheels on it when I bought it. It also has a red pearl ghost supersnake style stripe on it that nobody is ever going to see. All I've had to do is change oil and tires :unibrow:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s720x720/545109_10150705690665073_188171375072_9787876_2889 73157_n.jpg

Thanks to Hotchkis for the photo, I pulled it off their facebook page.

Matt

Ron in SoCal

04-18-2012, 11:13 AM

Matt@BOS

04-18-2012, 12:34 PM

Matt congrats on the new car (even if it's a F-rd :lol: ) and your motor direction. You're gonna love the 416! Built right they make lots of power, rev quick and are reliable as you noted...:thumbsup:

BW w the Camaro is a must :cheers:

Thanks Ron. It's not like I bought the Mustang yesterday though. You'll have to ride shotgun with me on a track. I might be able to make a Ford fan out of you yet; the car handles about as well as a C6 Grand Sport. It's faster down the straights too, but the speed really sneaks up on you unlike in a C6 or our old rattle trap Camaros.

Matt

Vegas69

04-18-2012, 01:00 PM

Thanks Ron. It's not like I bought the Mustang yesterday though. You'll have to ride shotgun with me on a track. I might be able to make a Ford fan out of you yet; the car handles about as well as a C6 Grand Sport. It's faster down the straights too, but the speed really sneaks up on you unlike in a C6 or our old rattle trap Camaros.

Matt

You better wash your mouth out with soap and go over and whisper sweet nothings into your Camaros ear. :lol:

Flash68

04-18-2012, 04:07 PM

Oh brother... and you said I have a Mustang/Camaro identity problem.

I wanna see a pic of it with the Fesler wheels.

Matt@BOS

04-18-2012, 06:58 PM

Oh brother... and you said I have a Mustang/Camaro identity problem.

I wanna see a pic of it with the Fesler wheels.

You do have a Mustang/Camaro identity problem. Your Camaro has Mustang stripes. Are you going to get Shelby to sign the dash?

I like to look at things this way, my Camaro is kind of like an all-American blond supermodel. She might not be quite as exotic or classy as some of her contemporaries, but she looks absolutely stunning, and is perfectly built, not too heavy in the front, and not too big out back. She is also high maintenance, tempermental, has to have the latest trend, and when she brakes down and freaks out, it is often expensive to get back on her good side.

As for the Mustang, I love it because having a Ford around all you guys makes me feel like I'm dating that girl with just the right amount of wrong. That car is kind of like that college girl you knew who was a little bit intimidating looking at first. She could probably stand to lose about ten pounds, but really, she was quite attractive strange reason though. Also add to the list being low maintenance, easy going, and a desire to party anywhere. Anytime. You don't have to wait hours for her to do her hair, or find the right dress.

Oh and the Mustang can move its ass in all the right ways :lol:

Matt

p.s. I'll pull up a shot of the awesome chrome Fesler wheels. I think I have a couple on my cell phone.

phillym5

04-18-2012, 11:59 PM

You do have a Mustang/Camaro identity problem. Your Camaro has Mustang stripes. Are you going to get Shelby to sign the dash?

I like to look at things this way, my Camaro is kind of like an all-American blond supermodel. She might not be quite as exotic or classy as some of her contemporaries, but she looks absolutely stunning, and is perfectly built, not too heavy in the front, and not too big out back. She is also high maintenance, tempermental, has to have the latest trend, and when she brakes down and freaks out, it is often expensive to get back on her good side.

As for the Mustang, I love it because having a Ford around all you guys makes me feel like I'm dating that girl with just the right amount of wrong. That car is kind of like that college girl you knew who was a little bit intimidating looking at first. She could probably stand to lose about ten pounds, but really, she was quite attractive strange reason though. Also add to the list being low maintenance, easy going, and a desire to party anywhere. Anytime. You don't have to wait hours for her to do her hair, or find the right dress.

Oh and the Mustang can move its ass in all the right ways :lol:

Matt

p.s. I'll pull up a shot of the awesome chrome Fesler wheels. I think I have a couple on my cell phone.

Huh...??

I just poked my head in here for a second... and im reading about Camaro's being blonds and Mustangs shaking its ass and doing hair.....

Im out.... poke back in a couple weeks. lol.

David Pozzi

04-19-2012, 12:27 AM

Thanks for the kind words Payton!

It has been about a month now I guess, and it is time for a little update.

I took the block over to Steve Demirjian of Race Engine Dynamics. After looking at it for about five minutes he came to the conclusion that it was pretty effed up. The passenger side cylinder bank saw some serious heat at some point, and all of the cylinders were out of round. Additionally the sleeves, which interlock had still managed to move, some might have sunken a hair. Basically it could be bored out from 4.185 to 4.200, however that still wouldn't insure that it wouldn't leak at all when hot.

In other words, that block is done. Since the engine came with a "Rupp warrantee" rather than get a new block, Steve has offered to raid his parts shelf so that we can put together a 416 LS engine. We could have done a 427 LS3, but I prefer the shorter stroke of the 416 LS3 for something that is going to see plenty of miles, some of which will be hard miles. I've got a couple of ideas on a few cool (looking) parts, but nothing is set in stone at the moment. Oh, and I will likely be tossing out the MEFI 4 computer...

In other news, I just bought a pair of 550 lb front springs, and have decided to downsize my brake master cylinders. When will it ever end :willy:

In the meantime I've been having too much fun with my newish GT500. I picked it up with only a thousand miles on it. The previous owner tossed a set of Eibach springs on (I have no idea what kind) and I've put tires on it. With only those two modifications it absolutely flies. Just ask David Pozzi :lol: We traded off driving it at MATS in Vegas this last weekend, and it managed to hang with all of the heavily modified new Camaros and Challengers. I think I'll be taking it to Buttonwillow in September :unibrow:

Matt
Matt,
Thanks for letting me try your Mustang! I rode with Matt and he wheels that Mustang very well! I was all thumbs in that thing for a few runs, then started getting used to it and did better. It has a good power and great balance.
David

Matt@BOS

04-19-2012, 07:01 PM

Alright, per Dave G's request I'm going to show all of you guys the wheels that came on the car. The Fesler/Asantis retailed for $4500 for the set, and I couldn't get rid of them for $500. They sat on a shelf at Driverz for the last 5 months. Jon and I tried ebay and Craigslist to no avail. I hate to make a joke about a situation that was bad for everybody involved, but with Driverz gone I probably won't ever have to look at those wheels again :lol:

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0234.jpg

Matt

04-19-2012, 07:03 PM

Those look terrible. Your new wheels look a million times better.:thumbsup:

Gandalf

04-19-2012, 07:11 PM

Dude, you should ssoooooooooooo have kept those for Frankenstein! They would look hot on that baby!

G.

GregWeld

04-19-2012, 07:12 PM

Ha! Jon going out of business and ripping you off did ya a big favor!!

Great looking car BTW.... and I'm glad you have the balz to like ALL automotive icons....

fleet

04-19-2012, 09:59 PM

If it sounds like the KR's, wow! :cool:

ALeBcchR2AY&feature

Swain

04-19-2012, 10:06 PM

Matt bet that 69 is pissed at u for cheating.

Next thing you know ur going to bring a Miata to the autocross. Hehe

Matt@BOS

04-19-2012, 11:02 PM

Dude, you should ssoooooooooooo have kept those for Frankenstein! They would look hot on that baby!

G.

Jorge (Bundell), Dude! you are so right, those would definitely set off that little '65. Hell, The $4000 I'd save by not having to buy wheels would probably cover the majority of the cost of the bondo that Frankenstein is going to need.

GW, I suppose I'm like you in that I don't discriminate against Fords of Chevys. Never really understood people who were diehards. All my sh** seems to break just the same. In fact if my Camaro and Mustang are both broken at the same time, I might look for '91 Miata like Jason just mentioned.

Skip, you should hear this thing in person. think of that KR video, except real, and spectacular. I said I wasn't going to modify it, but there is an intake that makes the supercharger whine more prominent. I think I need one :_paranoid

Matt

fleet

04-19-2012, 11:13 PM

Skip, you should hear this thing in person. think of that KR video, except real, and spectacular.

real, and spectacular.

You know your audience.

:lol:

I said I wasn't going to modify it, but there is an intake that makes the supercharger whine more prominent. I think I need one :_paranoid

Matt

I agree...and then audio. :unibrow:

marksp

05-19-2012, 08:41 AM

Sorry to be a late comer, but what carpet kit is that way back in post #241 in your Camaro?

Thanks

Matt@BOS

05-19-2012, 11:07 AM

Sorry to be a late comer, but what carpet kit is that way back in post #241 in your Camaro?

Thanks

No worries. I haven't forgotten what it is:lol: The carpet is Mercedes' charcoal grey (or whatever their second darkest color was at the time) that my interior guy made in three pieces. Any interior shop should be able to cut a carpet like this for you car for a reasonable price.

Matt

Matt@BOS

05-19-2012, 11:49 AM

I finally got some new parts for my engine this week. Now I'm just playing the same game as Dave, trying to round up the rest of what I need. Rupp and I had a little bit of an oversight picking out parts, and forgot that the LS7 heads needed a bigger bore than what the factory LS3 block provided. Unfortunately for my wallet, my LS7 manifold was already on the way from England when I found this out, so the whole LS3 416 kinda went out the window in favor of something big enough to fit the manifold. The engine block went off to Steve Demerjian of Race Engine Development. It is going to get the dry sleeve treatment this time around. I'm going to throw in the old 4.125" crank paired up with some new 4.155" pistons for something in range of 447ish cubes. This displacement coupled with a set of LS7 heads, (which I have yet to pick out, but am considering buying GM ones and sending them off to Richard at WCCH) should really take advantage of the Jenvey manifold.

So, if anyone is looking for a Jeff Davis Precision Metal Craft manifold and some Trick Flow 235 heads, Have I got a deal for you :lol:

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/mail-1.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/mail-2.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/mail.jpg

Matt

John510

05-19-2012, 11:57 AM

:hail: :hail: :hail:

Love the new manifold!

Matt, is the precision manifold for an LS3?

Al Moreno

05-19-2012, 11:58 AM

Matt thats a beautiful piece! And thats going to be one stout engine!

Flash68

05-19-2012, 12:08 PM

Holy Schnikeys... now THAT is awesome dude! :cheers: :thumbsup:

I think you are doing just fine "rounding up" the rest of what you need. :lol:

Vegas69

05-19-2012, 01:02 PM

So much for the less sophisticated set up. :lol: Looks cool man.

Matt@BOS

05-19-2012, 02:17 PM

So much for the less sophisticated set up. :lol: Looks cool man.

True dat!

I think I've reached a point where I've just given up on simple. I might not ever be able to get complex stuff to work right, but I can't ever get simple to work right either, so I might was well just look cool :cool:

Ron in SoCal

05-19-2012, 02:20 PM

Richio1

05-19-2012, 02:22 PM

Damn that is sexy

FETorino

05-19-2012, 03:31 PM

True dat!

I think I've reached a point where I've just given up on simple. I might not ever be able to get complex stuff to work right, but I can't ever get simple to work right either, so I might was well just look cool :cool:

I wish my wallet could reach the point where I could afford the complex stuff. Of course my choice in motors means my simple junk is probably as expensive as your nice stuff :rofl:

:wow: That manifold is SICK :wow:

Look cool definitely accomplished :thumbsup: It should run pretty dam well also.

Matt@BOS

05-19-2012, 05:05 PM

I wish my wallet could reach the point where I could afford the complex stuff. Of course my choice in motors means my simple junk is probably as expensive as your nice stuff :rofl:

:wow: That manifold is SICK :wow:

Look cool definitely accomplished :thumbsup: It should run pretty dam well also.

So true. By the time your engine is fully plummed and ready to fire it will probably cost more than my three engines combined. That idea kind of scares me since I'm eventually going to have to buy an engine for my little fastback. Do you think if I put a Jenvey intake on my little LS (the one pictured) and had some billet valve covers cut to look like old Ford ones that anyone would notice it was actually an LS? :_paranoid

Matt

FETorino

05-19-2012, 05:10 PM

So true. By the time your engine is fully plummed and ready to fire it will probably cost more than my three engines combined. That idea kind of scares me since I'm eventually going to have to buy an engine for my little fastback. Do you think if I put a Jenvey intake on my little LS (the one pictured) and had some billet valve covers cut to look like old Ford ones that anyone would notice it was actually an LS? :_paranoid

Matt

What year fastback? I can't even think of such things.
It feels like I was just stabbed through the heart :fire:
I need to sign off and rest :faint:

Matt@BOS

05-19-2012, 06:32 PM

What year fastback? I can't even think of such things.
It feels like I was just stabbed through the heart :fire:
I need to sign off and rest :faint:

If you thought you that felt like a knife to the heart, then this might hurt a little bit. It is a '65, which has been... modified. Some say "Camaroized." It is tasteful though, and still thoroughly Mustang, I swear!

Matt

FETorino

05-19-2012, 06:52 PM

If you thought you that felt like a knife to the heart, then this might hurt a little bit. It is a '65, which has been... modified. Some say "Camaroized." It is tasteful though, and still thoroughly Mustang, I swear!

Matt

You,....:( own a a late model Shelby stang.. et Tu. brute:question:

:wow: I'm gonna need therapy.:faint:

Or a six pack:cheers:

Matt@BOS

05-20-2012, 11:57 AM

You,....:( own a a late model Shelby stang.. et Tu. brute:question:

:wow: I'm gonna need therapy.:faint:

Or a six pack:cheers:

Oh, and my Shelby doesn't have the "S H E L B Y" lettering on the trunk either. :lol: It was that way when I bought it though, and I didn't feel like buying new lettering for it.

Come on down to the shop sometime and I'll drive you over to Stone Brewing company. It is a block down the street, and they've got all of the therapy you can drink!

Matt

camcojb

05-20-2012, 12:56 PM

Matt@BOS

05-20-2012, 02:28 PM

what are the throttle bore sizes on that manifold?

Jody, I believe they're 52mm. I have a feeling setting this up is going to be "fun." Have you ever worked with a similar setup?

camcojb

05-20-2012, 02:40 PM

Jody, I believe they're 52mm. I have a feeling setting this up is going to be "fun." Have you ever worked with a similar setup?

I have run IR setups. Never owned the crossram version though, but I have done tuning on them. My only concern is that the butterflies may be too small if this is a high HP setup, if they are truly 52 mm. It would really depend on what these throttle bodies flow. I had 2 3/16" throttle blades on a 406 small block (55.5 mm) and they were too small for the combo. Made 480 rwhp but was also pulling vacuum at WOT due to the restriction.

Has he said what these flow? The Hilborn setup was only good for 285 cfm according to them in the 55mm size. Maybe these flow more. You'd like them to flow as good as your heads or better, but at least close. You'll love the setup, torque and throttle response are incredible. Plus the looks.......... :thumbsup:

FETorino

05-20-2012, 03:22 PM

I have run IR setups. Never owned the crossram version though, but I have done tuning on them. My only concern is that the butterflies may be too small if this is a high HP setup, if they are truly 52 mm. It would really depend on what these throttle bodies flow. I had 2 3/16" throttle blades on a 406 small block (55.5 mm) and they were too small for the combo. Made 480 rwhp but was also pulling vacuum at WOT due to the restriction.

Has he said what these flow? The Hilborn setup was only good for 285 cfm according to them in the 55mm size. Maybe these flow more. You'd like them to flow as good as your heads or better, but at least close. You'll love the setup, torque and throttle response are incredible. Plus the looks.......... :thumbsup:

Second that thought on proper sizing of bores.

A certified FE engine nut wrote a book where he ran ever FE intake manifold he could find on 4 FE builds. From a 320hp 428 cj to a 500hp 390 stroker to a 427 and then a stroked 700hp 482. On the three smaller motors the weber intake with 48IDAs made the best average hp and torque by a significant margin. It did not make the highest peak hp on any engine and as the peak hp climbed on each "bigger" engine the ranking of the IR webber set up fell lower on the scale.. As Jody said it was pulling to much vac at WOT showing the flow was limited. The highest peak hp of these motors was a little over 600.

Once on the 700+ hp 482 it's peak performance fell to the bottom three of 30 manifolds and it's avg score also fell in the bottom 20%.

On the webber FE intake manifold the runner was a short straight run into the port so mainly the flow of the bore was what influenced performance.

On your IR crossram the IR length and flow should have a tuning effect for desired RPM range. I only know enough to be dangerous here but if you look at some articles by the top sheet metal intake builders you see they tune the intake with the runner size and length to the motor. We can speculate all we want but the intake designer should have an intended operating RPM range for a given amount of intake flow and engine displacement and be able to tell you if it will make your motor a star or hold it back.:unibrow:

Oh, and my Shelby doesn't have the "S H E L B Y" lettering on the trunk either. :lol: It was that way when I bought it though, and I didn't feel like buying new lettering for it.

Come on down to the shop sometime and I'll drive you over to Stone Brewing company. It is a block down the street, and they've got all of the therapy you can drink!

Matt

I'd take the S H E L B Y lettering off anyway. By 1969 he was already out of building Mustangs and only badging them for profit. ;)

Better watch out what you offer I'll take you up on it. I'm off work ext week running car building errands. As long as the drive over isn't in an LS powered 65. :mad: If I win the lottery I'll buy you a Fordstrokers Dart block FI 363 and pay you to throw the LS in a Nova. :D

:cheers:

:rofl: So true. By the time your engine is fully plummed and ready to fire it will probably cost more than my three engines combined. That idea kind of scares me since I'm eventually going to have to buy an engine for my little fastback. Do you think if I put a Jenvey intake on my little LS (the one pictured) and had some billet valve covers cut to look like old Ford ones that anyone would notice it was actually an LS? :_paranoid

Matt

Probably not all three engines (I'm not building a cammer) but for sure probably more than your most expensive one. I did spend a couple years collecting some of the big parts at a discount. :unibrow:

Matt@BOS

05-20-2012, 08:08 PM

Better watch out what you offer I'll take you up on it. I'm off work ext week running car building errands. As long as the drive over isn't in an LS powered 65. :mad: If I win the lottery I'll buy you a Fordstrokers Dart block FI 363 and pay you to throw the LS in a Nova. :D

:cheers:

:rofl:

Probably not all three engines (I'm not building a cammer) but for sure probably more than your most expensive one. I did spend a couple years collecting some of the big parts at a discount. :unibrow:

You're in luck, if you decide to stop by, the only thing I currently have running at the moment is the GT500. I often joke with Brett H who makes it out to a bunch of the So Cal pro touring events that Mustangs make great back up cars. His Fox Body frequently fills in for his Trans Am.

Jody, I will have to check the sizing when I get a chance. I think Jenvey's website said 52mm, but Mack at Emerald Performance, their U.S. distributer, might have said 60mm. The throttle body's certainly look more like the 60mm ones pictures. There is a thread somewhere on ls1tech of a 468LS build. As long as I have what that guy has, I should be ok. In any case, Mack seemed to thing everything would work right up until I told him I was dropping the engine into an old Camaro, at which point he told me that I was probably going to kill myself.

Rick D

05-21-2012, 05:20 AM

Wow Matt that manifold is freckling awesome!! :thumbsup: So much for simple :wow:

tones2SS

05-21-2012, 05:07 PM

Man, that looks sick. Very nice piece.

Swain

05-22-2012, 09:07 AM

Cool set up Matt

Roe

05-22-2012, 07:30 PM

Sweet Car!!!!!!!

Matt@BOS

09-19-2012, 09:11 PM

Update, because a bunch of you guys keep reminding me that I own this damn thing. :lol:

It has been a while, But that's okay, sometimes things take a while, and getting angry rarely helps the process in the end. Having my Mustang back up car has been nice as I've still been able to attend driving events and hang out with the usual suspects, (you guys know who you are), and that is really where the fun is. Although, now that I think about it, the powers of the dark side seem to have helped me along. I never won an event of any kind in the Camaro, but have managed two class wins in the Mustang :lol:

Anyway, I haven't forgotten about the Camaro and it is actually coming together now. I know it isn't saying much, but it will be done before Dave's car.
I've been getting parts in (finally). The block is done Steve, at R.E.D. did a great job, and I just want to make sure that no one thinks he was the hold up. I finally got to pick the heads up. They are RHS's new Pro Elite LS7 heads. I also spent part of today figuring out how to pull vacuum and run a map sensor off of the intake manifold. I think I've devised something that will work. Now I just have to drill and tap each individual runner, the idea of which kinda frightens me, because you only get one opportunity.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/-9_zps14b068a4.jpg

Matt

Ron in SoCal

09-19-2012, 09:27 PM

'bout time Matt :thumbsup:

Flash68

09-19-2012, 09:43 PM

Dangit I was hoping you sold this and just had the Mustang now.

Pick a side dude. Rob needs some backup.

Matt@BOS

09-19-2012, 09:53 PM

Dangit I was hoping you sold this and just had the Mustang now.

Pick a side dude. Rob needs some backup.

You can't tell me to pick a side until you do something about those stripes.

Sold it? Sell it? Nah, it has been just long enough that it will feel like driving a new car when I get it back. Actually, it probably will feel like a new car. I've gotta resize my master cylinders for less pedal effort, which should also make the brakes feel more aggressive. I mean I'll be adding almost 200hp and when you add that much power, you're going to feel like your brakes suck :lol:

Gandalf

09-19-2012, 09:55 PM

"Pro Elite" eh? Sounds fancy. Bolt it together already and let's go! Time to get the purple cone eater back on track!

Whaddayamean you only get one opportunity? You got eight of 'em. Get drillin' and work it out as you go!

Pick a side dude.
x2

G.

Vegas69

09-19-2012, 09:58 PM

Make a mistake, have some JB Weld handy.:unibrow:

Matt@BOS

09-19-2012, 10:09 PM

Enough with the pick a side thing already, you guys. Can't I have both? I see it as two distinct categories. Last night at Adams, running a Ford was like competing in the Special Olympics, or Paralympics to be a little more kind. Yes, I won for having the fastest Ford, but I was two seconds of the fast time of the day. :_paranoid

Matt

FETorino

09-19-2012, 10:34 PM

Tom.A

09-19-2012, 11:19 PM

Matt,

Where is the picture with you sporting that retro Shelby jacket you won last night:lol:

Rick D

09-20-2012, 05:00 AM

Man with TWO Fords I think you chosen sides :lol: J/k
Well it's about time you updated this, with Todd closing up shop we Need others to step up :lol: thanks Matt!!

Matt@BOS

09-20-2012, 10:47 AM

Matt,

Where is the picture with you sporting that retro Shelby jacket you won last night:lol:

I do need to get a picture of that jacket. It is pure awesome, and xxl which means when I'm 60 I won't look out of place wearing it. :lol:

Matt@BOS

09-20-2012, 11:00 AM

And how far from stock was that Ford?

Springs, sway bars and old used up tires. I'm tempted to put a set of sticky tires on it, but I don't want to be buying tires for it that will be gone by December. I really can't complain though, that car weighs 4000lbs with 57 percent of the weight over its nose with me in it, and handles well enough I don't need any electronic aids, so to be able to hold its own on a go kart track is, well... remarkable. Of course, the fastest car out there was actually a truck, so we're a bit of an odd group. Your Torino will be right at home.

Matt

Tom.A

09-20-2012, 12:07 PM

I do need to get a picture of that jacket. It is pure awesome, and xxl which means when I'm 60 I won't look out of place wearing it. :lol:

You could always do the regifting thing and give it as a late wedding present to DG. :lol: for the record I like the stripes Dave:thumbsup:
http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/attachments/garage/10079d1255322014-cobra-cobra-jet-jackets-cobrajacket.jpg

Sorry for the thread jack. Matt keep the progress going:thumbsup:

Matt@BOS

09-20-2012, 06:33 PM

You could always do the regifting thing and give it as a late wedding present to DG. :lol: for the record I like the stripes Dave:thumbsup:
http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/attachments/garage/10079d1255322014-cobra-cobra-jet-jackets-cobrajacket.jpg

Sorry for the thread jack. Matt keep the progress going:thumbsup:

Come to think of it, that would make the perfect gift for Dave, it is blue, has white stripes, and screams Ford without saying it!

No need to apologize about being off topic, the thick of this build is in the beginning, and the rest of the pages are filled with is happening as time goes on, usually that has to do with parts that have been broken, or simply replaced because I have something in common with Ron. I don't mind at all if we all post about what is sort, vaguely relevant at the moment, because I know there is no way this is ever going to end up like Dave's thread.

Anyway, yes, that jacket is pretty much what I won. It is even funnier if you really know me. I'm not exactly a Shelby fan. I don't dislike everything Shelby, rather I feel like Shelby marketing and branding has gotten so out of hand that it is simply ridiculous, in an entertaining way, of course. One of the things that makes me laugh is when I see Ford guys at Cars and Coffee, and they've got a Shelby hat, and Jacket, a shelby signed dash, and Shelby lettering on their car that wasn't built by Shelby. What is even more ironic is that when I bought my GT500, either the previous owner, or the paint shop that put on ghosted stripes decided to leave the Shelby lettering off :lol: So, there I was at Adams on Tuesday running against all the Mustang guys with their Cobras, who probably had all kinds of Shelby apparel, and lo and behold by the end of the night I had the fastest time, earning me the treasured jacket, which reads on the tag, "Officially Licensed Vintage Racing Apparel" or something of the like, despite the fact that there is no official branding present. Unlike Tom's picture, the Ford oval has been traded out for a pair of checkered flags and the Cobra badge is mysteriously devoid of the Cobra lettering and has been modified just enough to avoid copyright infringement :lol: Oh and I can't forget that most contemporaries give me endless sh-- for "being an old person." The very sight of me wearing this jacket would probably bring them to the floor laughing It is a good thing that girl I mentioned a while back moved back to D.C. she would probably refuse to be seen in public in its presence!:rofl: I'm looking forward to wearing this jacket and nerding out over car talk.

Matt

Cris@JCG

09-20-2012, 06:58 PM

I had forgotten that you owned a 69 Camaro... :lol:

The WidowMaker

09-20-2012, 08:54 PM

nice heads! those are the ones wegners doing the cnc work on. they claim theyre much better than anything remotely "ls7".

steves an awesome guy. took a lot of time with me and got some awesome work done. cant wait to see yours running. it will be a few years ahead of mine.........

DOOM

09-21-2012, 06:37 AM

I had forgotten that you owned a 69 Camaro... :lol:

:lol: :lol: Someone needs to get to Matt and get him to a doctor fast he must be breathing to much bondo dust at BOS!!

Flash68

09-21-2012, 04:44 PM

Enough with the pick a side thing already, you guys. Can't I have both?

No.

You could always do the regifting thing and give it as a late wedding present to DG. :lol: for the record I like the stripes Dave:thumbsup:

:thumbsup: :D

Matt@BOS

09-21-2012, 10:33 PM

:lol: :lol: Someone needs to get to Matt and get him to a doctor fast he must be breathing to much bondo dust at BOS!!

Nah, I try to wear a respirator, however, I had to clean out a bunch of lead on the Fastback, and that might have done it...

And Dave, I might just have to get you one of those jackets. Actually, I might be buying a few. Karl has a Mustang back up car for Blue Balz, and Brett H has one for his Trans Am. Ordinarily I'd say you needed one to join our little club, but exceptions can be made for rare individuals, besides, I seem to remember you had a Crown Vic at some point.

Matt

Flash68

09-21-2012, 10:50 PM

Nah, I try to wear a respirator, however, I had to clean out a bunch of lead on the Fastback, and that might have done it...

And Dave, I might just have to get you one of those jackets. Actually, I might be buying a few. Karl has a Mustang back up car for Blue Balz, and Brett H has one for his Trans Am. Ordinarily I'd say you needed one to join our little club, but exceptions can be made for rare individuals, besides, I seem to remember you had a Crown Vic at some point.

Matt

Thank you for the rare individual comment. I like that. :unibrow:

Oh and you mean this little gem? I've put 30k miles on it in a little over 2 years. It gets it done. :thumbsup:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/34845_413250291714_8101501_n_zps43f1e0e2.jpg

FETorino

09-21-2012, 10:50 PM

Nah, I try to wear a respirator, however, I had to clean out a bunch of lead on the Fastback, and that might have done it...

And Dave, I might just have to get you one of those jackets. Actually, I might be buying a few. Karl has a Mustang back up car for Blue Balz, and Brett H has one for his Trans Am. Ordinarily I'd say you needed one to join our little club, but exceptions can be made for rare individuals, besides, I seem to remember you had a Crown Vic at some point.

Matt

:wow: It just hurts that you left me off the list. :(

Matt@BOS

09-21-2012, 10:55 PM

:wow: It just hurts that you left me off the list. :(

I only left you off the list because I figured you already had one of those cool jackets, unlike the rest of us, you're, uh... very openly Ford.

I'll make sure to put you on the list.

Ron in SoCal

09-21-2012, 11:19 PM

I only left you off the list because I figured you already had one of those cool jackets, unlike the rest of us, you're, uh... very openly Ford.

Just can't stop :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Flash68

09-21-2012, 11:49 PM

I found out this week that Rob does own TWO Corvettes. :_paranoid

Sorry Rob.

Matt@BOS

09-22-2012, 09:54 AM

I found out this week that Rob does own TWO Corvettes. :_paranoid

Sorry Rob.

Rob owns TWO Corvettes? There is no way he would go that way. I refuse to believe it. In our community that is the equivalent of the Larry Craig political scandal. Let me guess he only bought one of the 'Vettes because it has a "wide stance?"

Matt

Flash68

09-22-2012, 10:19 AM

Yeah I fear that will be the last secret Rob confides in me with.

GregWeld

09-22-2012, 10:25 AM

Yeah I fear that will be the last secret Rob confides in me with.

OMG! really! <squealing like a valley girl>... that must set a world record..... for ....miniatures.

Matt@BOS

10-23-2012, 10:31 PM

I'm going to bring this back up to post a rant. NEVER, ever do any work with Turn Key engines, ever. Today I went to get my PRC radiator flushed. When I heard back from the service shop they told me it had a small leak. Ok, no big deal, however they noticed that the cores had expanded. Hmm, couple that info with the fact that they blew my radiator cap, and I'm starting to see what happened. So basically, while under Turnkey's care to get dyno tuned they also destroyed my radiator in addition to ruining my engine, which they built for Rupp, and "freshened up" for him after about a thousand miles when it was pulled. They were the only shop to work on that engine. Never once did they offer to refund my dyno time. I would never ask them to eat the cost of an engine, even if they supposedly checked it out, but come on, when something breaks that badly under your care, you should do something about it. When they offered to help with my new build/rebuild I asked about a set of LS7 heads. They were going to charge me 2500 for a set of used ones coming off a customers car. For that money I could have bought the new LSX ones that the customer was swapping to. Really? Don't even get me started on another BOS customer's El Camino with a Turnkey engine.

So, for everyone out there building a car, and trying to save a little money along the way, don't. Save for what you want, or just bite the bullet and spend the money, because fixing things later costs twice as much, and takes twice as long.

Swain

10-23-2012, 10:55 PM

Never liked that place...

FETorino

10-23-2012, 11:11 PM

I'm going to bring this back up to post a rant. NEVER, ever do any work with Turn Key engines, ever.
So, for everyone out there building a car, and trying to save a little money along the way, don't. Save for what you want, or just bite the bullet and spend the money, because fixing things later costs twice as much, and takes twice as long.

It really sucks to hear your engine dilemma is ending up even worse. The thread on "how to get a deal on parts" spells it out just like you say. A deal is when your vendor stands behind the stuff they sell. When things sound to good to be true they usually aren't.:(

randy

10-24-2012, 10:40 AM

So, for everyone out there building a car, and trying to save a little money along the way, don't. Save for what you want, or just bite the bullet and spend the money, because fixing things later costs twice as much, and takes twice as long.

this shouldnt be taken lightly. Do it right do it light. Alot of people build their car to only have to rebuild it. Most of the time they end up running out of money and selling the car only to lose the reason why they started building the car to begin with.

plus this was the excuse i gave my wife to let me mini tub, dse subframe, rear quadralink and to purchase my forgelines. lol.

" honey would you rather me spend $1000 now and another $3800 later on rims or just spend the $3800 now?"

if that doesnt work i always use the

" honey im spending the money i had before i met you not our money " lol

Flash68

10-24-2012, 10:43 AM

And Dave, I might just have to get you one of those jackets.
Matt

Where's my jacket?

this shouldnt be taken lightly. Do it right do it light. Alot of people build their car to only have to rebuild it. Most of the time they end up running out of money and selling the car only to lose the reason why they started building the car to begin with.

plus this was the excuse i gave my wife to let me mini tub, dse subframe, rear quadralink and to purchase my forgelines. lol.

" honey would you rather me spend $1000 now and another $3800 later on rims or just spend the $3800 now?"

if that doesnt work i always use the

" honey im spending the money i had before i met you not our money " lol

:rofl: I've been using the "but honey I sold other car parts to pay for these new car parts"

Rybar

10-24-2012, 11:29 AM

Sorry to hear Matt, another buddy of mine from this forum is having an issue with thier tune on his Turn-key crate motor.

transam

10-24-2012, 12:02 PM

Matt@BOS

10-24-2012, 04:00 PM

Where's my jacket?

:rofl: I've been using the "but honey I sold other car parts to pay for these new car parts"

I can't believe you have been able to pull that one off. I figured it would have been caught by the innate inner Asian accounting gene. I got that gene (well part of it) from my mom and every now and then I am horrified by these cars.

Matt@BOS

10-24-2012, 04:37 PM

That would be me. Car wont rev past 2000. Turn key said send them the ecm and tb. They said it had a break in lock which they removed. Got ecm back in car still same issue. Im just going to yank out the marine delphi and go oem ls wiring and ecm. I dont trust a 700hp motor with no o2 sensors.

Transam, that is a really wise choice to just ditch the MEFI 4B while you can. I would, but that would open up an entirely new can of worms, and I just want to be driving my car again. The OLC is using a MEFI 4 as well, and I think it has proved that the computer can be reliable behind power, so long as you aren't using a crazy high power, high boost turbo motor, or anything else complicated. One last thing, if your motor puts out considerably less power than advertised, do something about it. My original LS2 from them was advertised as their "510hp" crate motor. Even after spending an additional 3k on better heads and cam with them, which they claimed would give me another 50hp it only made 430whp. Similarly, that El Camino that I was talking about is a 402 with a Kenne Bell on it, and it only made 520/540 on the chassis dyno. While I was unhappy with the power my LS2 made, I can believe that there is that much of a disparity in power readings if they are advertising gross horsepower. If the 402KB motor was mine though, I would be knocking down the door after dropping almost 25k for something that is supposed to make in excess of 700.

I have one last thing to rant about. First, I want to say, I understand that shops make mistakes, I also understand that sometimes things don't go as they should, and that not everything should be blamed on a shop. When we pay a shop to hot rod something, and experiment with parts, etc. there are certainly no guarantees on the outcome. This scenario is different though. When Turnkey put the heads and cam on the LS2 of mine, they somehow lost an o-ring shaped gasket that goes in the valley cover plate that caused all kinds of oil to shoot out of the cone shaped casting (used in displacement on demand vehicles) and get sucked up through the pcv tract. I only found this out when I was transferring parts from the LS2 to the 454. Which reminds me, when I pulled the valley cover plate off Rupp's 454 it only had one, yes ONE, of the eight gaskets in place. I only gave them the benefit of the doubt to tune my car because they had tuned it several times before. Looking back, that was an idiotic mistake on my part, but it probably wouldn't have mattered at that point anyway.

Flash68

10-24-2012, 04:41 PM

This does really suck. I thought Turn Key had a really good rep.

I can't believe you have been able to pull that one off. I figured it would have been caught by the innate inner Asian accounting gene. I got that gene (well part of it) from my mom and every now and then I am horrified by these cars.

I am lucky. She admittedly did not get the math gene. I have it in our family. :unibrow:

transam

10-24-2012, 05:32 PM

Mine is the ls2 kenne belle supercharged engine, the guy i spoke with at turn key sounds nice enough,i overnighted the parts to them,didnt hear anything so i called a week later and he said he didnt have my phone number or email or contact info,even though i enclosed a printed piece of paper with all my info. The reason i would like to switch aside from the lack safety in the efi is nobody in my area wants to work with mefi,and the mefi burn is another investment on its own.Also if i go with gm wiring i can control my 4l60e using an oem ecm not the aftermarket controller it currently uses. Its my fault,i shoukd have done my research before i bought the set up. I wish you luck with your car:thumbsup:

Transam, that is a really wise choice to just ditch the MEFI 4B while you can. I would, but that would open up an entirely new can of worms, and I just want to be driving my car again. The OLC is using a MEFI 4 as well, and I think it has proved that the computer can be reliable behind power, so long as you aren't using a crazy high power, high boost turbo motor, or anything else complicated. One last thing, if your motor puts out considerably less power than advertised, do something about it. My original LS2 from them was advertised as their "510hp" crate motor. Even after spending an additional 3k on better heads and cam with them, which they claimed would give me another 50hp it only made 430whp. Similarly, that El Camino that I was talking about is a 402 with a Kenne Bell on it, and it only made 520/540 on the chassis dyno. While I was unhappy with the power my LS2 made, I can believe that there is that much of a disparity in power readings if they are advertising gross horsepower. If the 402KB motor was mine though, I would be knocking down the door after dropping almost 25k for something that is supposed to make in excess of 700.

I have one last thing to rant about. First, I want to say, I understand that shops make mistakes, I also understand that sometimes things don't go as they should, and that not everything should be blamed on a shop. When we pay a shop to hot rod something, and experiment with parts, etc. there are certainly no guarantees on the outcome. This scenario is different though. When Turnkey put the heads and cam on the LS2 of mine, they somehow lost an o-ring shaped gasket that goes in the valley cover plate that caused all kinds of oil to shoot out of the cone shaped casting (used in displacement on demand vehicles) and get sucked up through the pcv tract. I only found this out when I was transferring parts from the LS2 to the 454. Which reminds me, when I pulled the valley cover plate off Rupp's 454 it only had one, yes ONE, of the eight gaskets in place. I only gave them the benefit of the doubt to tune my car because they had tuned it several times before. Looking back, that was an idiotic mistake on my part, but it probably wouldn't have mattered at that point anyway.

James OLC

10-24-2012, 09:24 PM

Matt@BOS

10-24-2012, 09:46 PM

FWIW I would definitely change out the MEFI 4 although at this point I'm sticking with it because the next step for me with the ECM is a big step. IF I were to be starting all over with a simple build I would probably stick with a GM piece.

IF you want to give the MEFI another chance, reach out to Mike Norris - he can steer you in the right direction.

That reminds me, Bob (I believe that is his name) who is the man behind the MEFI 4 Burn software is local to Southern California, and told me he would be really happy to work out a solid open-loop tune on my car. He would just tune as i drove around on the street. I remember Mike Norris speaking well of him, and I would have given him a shot after getting a baseline tune had the 454 not taken a dump.

Ron in SoCal

10-24-2012, 11:41 PM

FWIW I would definitely change out the MEFI 4 although at this point I'm sticking with it because the next step for me with the ECM is a big step.

Motec? :hail:

phillym5

10-25-2012, 02:05 AM

Bryan O

10-25-2012, 07:39 AM

Matt...

For tuning.. take it to Westech.
After the experience i just had with them... i will only let Westech tune my car.
Ernie is the best of the best.

Shoot... i found out they tuned all 4 of Big Reds motors!!!
Ernie got my car feeling better than its ever felt.:thumbsup:

^^ What phillym5 said. :thumbsup:

Recently, I took my car there as well. Ernie is great. Trevor and I had a great time watching him tune the car.

My car has a MEFI 4B. No problem for Ernie. The numbers came back lower than those from TurnKey's dyno. However, he got a 3% increase in both HP and torque; 427rwhp & 434 torgue. More accurate. To a large degree, Ernie was also able to alleviate a backfire issue I had. Under load and stepping on the throttle hard in second gear at about 1,800rpm the car would backfire. My car is much more street friendly now.

Matt@BOS

10-25-2012, 08:03 AM

Bryan, Josh, glad to hear you both had good experiences with Ernie at Westech. My initial plan was to have them dyno the LS7 454 when it was ready, but since I sent it up to Charlie and Austin at RPM in Santa Clarita, I feel compelled to let them tune it, since pretty much all they do is build and tune LS engines in 'Vettes, etc. Gregg has also had good results there, which gives me more confidence.

I trust they will do a much better job than Corey at Turnkey. If and/or when I throw the Jenvey ITB manifold on it will probably go to Bob or Ernie. Also, if something feels "off" I will take it Westech, or if it needs better street manners, I might send it to Bob at Mefi 4 Burn.

James OLC

10-26-2012, 08:17 AM

Motec? :hail:

Motec or Cosworth. From a hardware standpoint I think that the Cosworth system is a "better" and "simpler" system than the Motec (since you need multiple components with the Motec setup) but I think that there is more knowledge and ability for the Motec parts.

Matt@BOS

10-26-2012, 12:02 PM

When it rains, it pours...

I just got a call from Austin at RPM, which was both good and bad. It was good because at least I know they are way more on top of their sh** than anyone else I have dealt with so far. Apparently the machine shop which JR used (Total Performance) overbored the block to somewhere right around 4.186.5. Lovely, right? Both Wiseco and the ring manufacturer RPM uses agree that the bore size is slightly too big for the 4.181 piston which is one of the parts I was actually going to re-use. Now I need new custom pistons because nobody makes a 4.182 piston to stock on the shelf. :willy:

Now I am probably going have to drag my block back down from Santa Clarita, Total Performance which is a full day trip with LA traffic, just so that Total Performance can verify that it isn't right, then I get to spend another day driving it back up!

Starting to look more and more like I won't be making Del Mar after Thanksgiving.

Payton King

10-26-2012, 01:23 PM

The Camaro is mad you are working on a Mustang.

Seriously, I feel for you man. Would it be easier to source another block?

Vegas69

10-26-2012, 06:21 PM

That's what I'm saying, scratch that block for a quality short block set up.

James OLC

10-26-2012, 07:48 PM

5.3 at BOS.... You can be up and running by Sunday... Just saying.

Seriously - sorry about the run if bad luck. When it rains it pours...

Gordz32

10-26-2012, 09:24 PM

Jeez Matt, what the heck is going on. Sorry about the string of bad luck your having. I was never crazy about turnkey. Hope everything works out for ya

Vince@Meanstreets

10-26-2012, 10:00 PM

that sucks but, most of the machinists I know won't bore a block without the pistons...is this a huge FUBAR on your machinist or do you have to eat it ?

FETorino

10-26-2012, 10:12 PM

that sucks but, most of the machinists I know won't bore a block without the pistons...is this a huge FUBAR on your machinist or do you have to eat it ?

x2 even when I was building Jetski motors the machinist wouldn't bore the cyls without pistons.:rolleyes:

Matt@BOS

10-27-2012, 07:19 AM

JR took one piston down to the machine shop. He never checked all the pistons, although he wants to now. I asked him for four months to check the pistons and all he did was look at them...

Now he wants the block to look at to see if Total Performance made it to the specs he requested because he "thinks Charlie is the biggest hack in the industry." He will probably say that he doesn't know what the problem is and will tell me to just run a bigger ring.

I'm going to spend two days carrying the block around since I need to give him a chance to look at it (I had to pick it up because he was too busy, then went on vacation).

Somehow I have. Feeling this won't play out well...

Sieg

10-27-2012, 07:38 AM

Somehow I have. Feeling this won't play out well...Hate reading this stuff. :mad: Good luck going forward. :thumbsup:

FETorino

10-27-2012, 08:19 AM

Somehow I have. Feeling this won't play out well...

That feeling is because it already hasn't.:(

Matt@BOS

10-27-2012, 06:32 PM

5.3 at BOS.... You can be up and running by Sunday... Just saying.

Seriously - sorry about the run if bad luck. When it rains it pours...

For some reason I missed your post until just now. That 5.3 turned out some impressive numbers for a little motor. I still have my old LS2, and while it probably needs to be freshened up, getting new rings, etc. It still does run. I am kicking myself for not throwing it back in the car in March. I was told it wouldn't take long to get a new motor together, but between peoples' busy schedules, priorities, misinformation, and general idiocy it has become a mess. I cannot blame everyone involved in this process, some people have been great to work with and are honest about how they operate, and I'm sure I will work with them in the future, others... not so much.

Lesson learned today: Just about everyone out there knows the best way to do something, so just pick one person, or group that you feel you can trust, and put stock in what they have to say. Juggling techniques, and information on the best way to build an engine is like having too many cooks in the kitchen, only worse!

Lastly, I went up to RPM today to look at my pistons and block and I'm pleased at how professional and organized they are. They remind me a bit of the BOS crew, but with LS engines and Corvettes. They took the time to physically show me the size of the bores, explain the acceptable range in tolerances, and then pull up the data they had collected on their computer of each piston, and corresponding cylinder bore size.

At the end of the day I decided not to bring the engine block back down to San Diego. New expedited custom pistons from Ross are probably going to run in the $1600 range, if I had to guess, and while I would love to get that money back, I can just imagine what will unfold as two, maybe three parties argue over what is acceptable, and who is in the wrong. There is part of me who really wants to do a credit card dispute chargeback, but I'm not enough of a dick to do that.

Anyway, pistons are going to be ordered Monday, and expedited, and the engine will probably be ready Monday of next week. If all goes wrong it will take two weeks to put it back in, and then all I need is a tune. :lol:

James OLC

10-27-2012, 06:50 PM

Been there and done that - glad it looks like it's going to come together this week! Shame it has to be the hard way.

chr2002ca

10-29-2012, 08:39 AM

Wow, just got caught up on your thread Matt. Sorry to hear about the mess, but thank you for sharing these stories and your feedback on different shops. It definitely helps put things in perspective and gives me a little bit better clarity on how I want my ZL built and who I want building it.

I also just got caught up on your fastback Mustang build. Looks fantastic and I really admire your customizations and the labor you're putting into it yourself. It's going to be a great build also. Look forward to catching up with you soon. :thumbsup:

Matt@BOS

10-29-2012, 02:13 PM

Chris,

Thanks for the kind words, and no problem about sharing a little information about shops. Recently, I've learned a lot about picking where to take work. I'm glad that my experiences might help others like yourself. What I have learned recently from visiting so many engine builders is that attitude and professionalism are two separate, but still related things that are now two of the most important indicators of where I will send work. Word of mouth and reputation are important, but there is still a certain amount of BS involved in hearing about someone's reputation. After this last fiasco, I would never commit to taking work to a shop I had not visited at least once first.

A lot of guys had recently mentioned having a Socal shop and garage tour since it seems like everyone has been taking their cars apart recently. We figured it would be fun to BS and catch up on what everyone has been up to lately. You interested?

Matt

chr2002ca

10-29-2012, 05:14 PM

Sounds like fun. Count me in. :thumbsup:

Matt@BOS

03-08-2013, 05:49 PM

These rednecks held an event out at El Toro a few weeks ago, and for some reason they decided to pick a '69 Camaro to go to Optima this year. I really need to thank Bill, Yancy and Brian for giving me the opportunity to go out and play the day after SEMA, but now I have to get my pile ready. I'm totally ready to be crushed the resident hot shoes, i.e. Stielow, Hobaugh, or Popp, etc. However, the last thing I want to do is to get embarrassed by something like a Volkswagen Golf.

After El Toro I came away with a couple things I wanted to change to get the car a little more dialed in. This got me thinking about how much I've changed since day one. When it was first done, my end goal was to have a car that was fun to drive with my skill level behind the wheel where I didn't feel like the car was the limiting factor. While I've gotten a bit better at driving the car has come a real long way from what it first was.

While I am nowhere near as detail oriented as Brett Campbell, I figured I might as well keep everyone updated on the evolution of the car's suspension, and discuss a little bit about why I'm making the changes to the car. Hopefully it will be a learning process for all of us. If any of you guys have good suggestions I'll give them a shot. I'm start to amass a collection of springs and bars.

Oh and because you guys all like pictures, here is picture of the newest engine being assembled up at RPM in Santa Clarita.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0761_zps472a7d02.jpg

waynieZ

03-08-2013, 09:32 PM

Sweet !

214Chevy

03-09-2013, 06:45 AM

:G-Dub: :G-Dub: ....beautiful!!

Tomswheels

03-09-2013, 06:42 PM

Matt, awesome job getting the invite, couldn't go to a better guy, thanks for the ride at RTTC4, I think you have the skills and the car to give em a good show at Optima!

Bryce

03-09-2013, 06:47 PM

hey matt,

Sorry I couldnt BS with you at work today. But I was busy. Hope everything you bought works out!

Matt@BOS

03-10-2013, 10:08 AM

Matt, awesome job getting the invite, couldn't go to a better guy, thanks for the ride at RTTC4, I think you have the skills and the car to give em a good show at Optima!

Thanks Tom. And, thanks for the laps in the Barracuda, that thing is a blast and you definitely drove the wheels off of it. I was a little scared we might capsize on the back turn around though. :lol:

hey matt,

Sorry I couldnt BS with you at work today. But I was busy. Hope everything you bought works out!

Yeah, the store was packed with people like me who get lost and distracted and then have a hard time finding what they're looking for. We'll find out today if everything works!

Now for a little carnage from El Toro. Here is the driver side front tire. Not pretty at all.
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0863_zpsb18c7ceb.jpg
I need more negative camber. Currently running about a degree, which works well until you really start pushing the car hard. I've done a couple autocrosses with those tires and the tire wear was about where I wanted it.The El Toro autocross exposed a couple of shortcomings with the car though. Rather than just adding more negative camber I'm going to try adding a little more front spring as well. My car transitions into corners and turns in pretty quickly, but the more familiar you become with the car, the more you start to notice that its weight seems to move a little too slowly after you get the wheels pointed, and takes a little too long to set. When you force it into quick transitions you can sometimes feel the front jump or "hop" once before biting. It doesn't push very hard, but it feels like it is having a difficult time handling the weight transfer.

The car also has a little bit of steady state understeer and I will get to that next.

Matt

Tomswheels

03-10-2013, 06:47 PM

Thanks Tom. And, thanks for the laps in the Barracuda, that thing is a blast and you definitely drove the wheels off of it. I was a little scared we might capsize on the back turn around though. :lol:
Matt

Ha! You are not the first to fear capsization... and the Cuda often feels as if it IS actually going to have a wheel fall off ...:confused59:

Cole

03-11-2013, 02:10 PM

Details on the new rpm motor

Matt@BOS

03-11-2013, 09:40 PM

Details on the new rpm motor

RPM has been great to deal with!

It is a 454LS that used to be in Bad Penny except only the crank and rods are the same. :lol:
LS3 block with Darton dry sleeves bored to 4.185" by Steve Demerjian of R.E.D
Wiseco/K1 crank and rods, with custom Ross pistons (the machine shop did the machine work based off of a single old piston the original would be builder sent over so I had to have 4.182" pistons made)
reused the old cam from the 454 LS2, which is 243/259, 114 LSA
RHS LS7 heads, Comp valvetrain, springs, and SS valves
FAST 102 intake and throttle body.

On the loaded chassis dyno at RPM it made 585/565 at 6800rpm. This was a safe break in tune and really the only number we have from a full pull so far. I told them I'd bring it back after putting a few miles on it, I've gotten the miles, just haven't taken the car back. Since it makes enough power right now it hasn't been a priority. I think the motor has been a bit choked down with the old headers on it which are 1-3/4." I just replaced the header gaskets because one had burned through and found they were round 1-1/2" ones. Now I'm curious what it will do with a set of DSE 1-7/8" headers. :G-Dub:

Ron in SoCal

03-11-2013, 10:46 PM

LS3 block with Darton dry sleeves bored to 4.185" by Steve Demerjian of R.E.D

Fixed it for you Matt. Don't want Cole sittin up all night dreaming about a new $40k motor...:D

DSE headers (artwork) will uncork that bad boy :thumbsup:

Matt@BOS

03-11-2013, 11:15 PM

Fixed it for you Matt. Don't want Cole sittin up all night dreaming about a new $40k motor...:D

DSE headers (artwork) will uncork that bad boy :thumbsup:

Thanks Ron. I just went back and fixed that too. Not even 40k could build a 4.85" bore LS

The DSE headers are nice, but 2k could probably be used better elsewhere, like on the Mustang, or for more tires, etc. etc. I am planning on getting rid of the electric cutouts and doing oval exhaust up to the X or mufflers, so I might just cave and get them... I should, but...

Al Moreno

03-12-2013, 05:54 AM

Thanks Ron. I just went back and fixed that too. Not even 40k could build a 4.85" bore LS

The DSE headers are nice, but 2k could probably be used better elsewhere, like on the Mustang, or for more tires, etc. etc. I am planning on getting rid of the electric cutouts and doing oval exhaust up to the X or mufflers, so I might just cave and get them... I should, but...

Matt, that sounds like a killer setup. Out of curiously, why are you getting rid of the cutouts?

By the way, get the DSE headers, it's only :G-Dub: , LOL. I've been wanting to use the little money guy on a post since I first saw him.

fleet

03-12-2013, 06:12 AM

Matt,

What other alternatives (if any yet), are you considering to the DSE's?

GregWeld

03-12-2013, 06:13 AM

By the way, get the DSE headers, it's only :G-Dub: , LOL. I've been wanting to use the little money guy on a post since I first saw him.

Charley has been waiting for a BIG money guy so he can use it in a post....

Nice stuff going on here Mister Matt!

Matt@BOS

03-12-2013, 08:16 AM

Charley has been waiting for a BIG money guy so he can use it in a post....

Nice stuff going on here Mister Matt!

Thanks Greg! I'm trying to get this car to drive as good as it looks.

Al, I'm ditching the cutouts because I never use them. They're heavy, clunky, take up space and even closed I think they leak a little.

Skip, I think the other alternative to the Hooker Super Comps would be a set of Lemons headers. I would spring for the DSE ones right away if I knew they fit with my motor mounts.

Matt@BOS

03-12-2013, 11:20 PM

So, a couple weeks ago when we were all out at Adams, the lower corner of my brake caliper started hitting the inside flange on the front driver side wheel. I noticed it under hard cornering. I was a little confused at first as to why this would happen now after never having problems in the past. I pulled a couple shims out of the bottom caliper bolt since the wheel hub seemed tight. The fix worked for the weekend, but I figured I should go ahead and replace the hub assembly since the car has seen a few hard miles on it. Today I went out to Adams again, had the same exact problem. Now I'm even more stumped. I changed the brake rotors and pads out over the weekend. I got the rotor and caliper lined up and centered and on the new hub. I figured problem solved, but apparently not. I was running about as little caliper to wheel clearance as possible and never had a problem until now, on just the driver side. What gives? I'm going to swap front wheels side to side, but I doubt that one is bent since I just had tires mounted and balanced two weeks ago. It is possible that there are small differences between the wheels since they were made at different times (one had to be replaced following "the accident") but I doubt it.

That's my rambling for today. Probably doesn't make much sense without pictures. Thinking about what might be wrong is driving me crazy and writing it down seemed like a good idea at the time...

GregWeld

03-13-2013, 05:51 AM

Matt@BOS

03-13-2013, 10:51 AM

Did the caliper leave a witness mark in the wheel??

It might be helpful to know the clearance when just sitting... and then at least you'd know "something" is moving "X" amount in order to close that gap.

Yes, it left a mark.

I just figured out the problem though. The stud that mounts through the caliper body and onto the adapter started backing out of the adapter. Now to fix it. I tried just tightening it up and it stripped the nut before it, as opposed to working at it should have. I even tried tightening both down evenly so the caliper wasn't skewed. :bang:

Vegas69

03-13-2013, 08:46 PM

Check the other side to make sure it's not close to suffering the same fate. That's one of those deals that happens in pairs.

Matt@BOS

03-13-2013, 09:40 PM

Check the other side to make sure it's not close to suffering the same fate. That's one of those deals that happens in pairs.

Will do. Already have a pair of studs on order from Wilwood in case something similar happens in the future. The one I pulled out was toast with the caliper bolt stripped and stuck on. I'm still not sure why the stud started backing out of the bracket. It looked like it had red loctite on it. I suppose lots of heat, vibration and general abuse might have had something to do with it.

Matt@BOS

03-22-2013, 06:49 PM

Weekly excitement!

The quickest way for me to get onto the freeway in the morning is to go up over a big hill and down the backside to a little known onramp. Right as I get to the top of the hill I downshifted from third to second to keep the car from lugging at around 20mph. After doing so the car just dropped revs like it was in neutral, so I made sure it was in second gear, and it did the exact same thing. Then I tried third. Same issue. None of the gears worked. For those who have never been in a situation like this, it is not a great feeling. At. All. Luckily I was able to coast to the bottom of the hill and call AAA for a tow truck. Even with the car off and in gear, it wanted to roll downhill. I was looking for any visual sign of damage and couldn't see anything. After an hour the tow truck had arrived and loaded up the car. Off to Best of Show we went. When we got there Dick was cool enough to throw the car up on the lift right away to have a look. We were both a bit puzzled as to what the issue was. Nothing seemed to indicate a clutch or transmission failure. No, clunks, leaks, or crunching noises were ever heard. With the car in gear and up on the lift we were able to spin the rear wheels freely. Not a good sign right?

Here is what we found after taking the center section out of the car...
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0882_zpsa1202209.jpg

Yes, those are all of the bolts that are supposed to hold the ring gear in place. Over the last two years they slowly managed to all "fall out." My apologies for the poor photo quality from my aging cell phone, but I think you can all see those mangled and pinched bolts. Apparently the last bolt worked its way out right at the top of the hill. I'm not sure I have ever been so lucky in my life! It could have happened at speed while I was at the track, or it could have happened in stop and go traffic during morning rush hour if I had gone the other way.

I understand that these cars need a nut and bolt check on them periodically, and I always go over suspension and other critical parts of the car before driving on a track, but I'm betting none of you guys take your 9" assemblies apart to check over. I wouldn't be that upset about it, but I purchased this part from DSE who uses a Moser Assembly. I think the idea here is that both myself and DSE are putting our trust in Moser. Maybe it is just me, but I don't think something like this should ever happen. Those bolts were a little on the short side, but most of all, they had zero evidence of any type of thread locker, nor did they have washers. It would be one thing if I pulled the housing apart one day and one bolt fell out, but all ten? What if one of the bolts had fallen out and been kicked up into the gears while I was driving? This could have been disastrous. I haven't even called Moser up. Anyone thing it is worth while? I'm sure all I will get is a typical, "we've never seen that happen before," response...

JasonElvisHeard

03-22-2013, 07:21 PM

GregWeld

03-22-2013, 07:29 PM

Never ever in all my life around quite a few cars and car guys have I ever heard of anything like that happening. Dead serious. Never.

Matt FTW!!!

fleet

03-22-2013, 07:32 PM

I haven't even called Moser up. Anyone thing it is worth while? I'm sure all I will get is a typical, "we've never seen that happen before," response...

Do a little name droppin' on 'em...

O U S C I

:lol:

syborg tt

03-22-2013, 07:55 PM

Since you purchased it from DSE I would call them first. It is there responsibility to warranty their products. Let then handle the claim, replacement and all cost associated. It is clearly poor quality control.

Matt@BOS

03-22-2013, 08:05 PM

chances are that Moser will not do anything, or at lease require you to ship everything back for inspection. I don't want to say anything negative, but I will tell you that we no longer use Moser, but have had great success with Strange.

Jason

Thanks for the recommendation on Strange. I have slowly been losing faith in Moser. I was a little bugged by my experience with their 9" with Torino big bearing ends. But that was really due to my actual use versus their intended use. I had a friend with one of their full floaters, which he described as a piece of junk that fell apart. In all seriousness I never really considered calling them, because I figured it wouldn't be worth my while, I figured I'd ask in case anyone had an overwhelmingly positive experience.

Greg, I'm not sure it is a good thing or a bad thing that you've never seen anything like this. I seem to have the best luck for having the best outcome from some of the worst luck. :lol:

Skip, I'm not sure name dropping OUSCI would work when they asked what my name was and I said Matt Alcala, spelled M-a-r-k S-t-i-e-l-o-w. :lol:

Marty, I was going to let the DSE folks know about it when they made their way down for Good Guys Del Mar. However they choose to deal with it is fine by me. I did purchase the part back in '08, so I don't expect anything from them, especially if Moser were to just blow them off.

Sieg

03-22-2013, 08:07 PM

This could have been disastrous. I haven't even called Moser up. Anyone thing it is worth while? I'm sure all I will get is a typical, "we've never seen that happen before," response...First off - You're very fortunate it went down like it did. Thinking of all the possible worse case scenarios.........this is nothing but pure luck! How would the car react if it happened while you were hard on the throttle through a 3rd or 4th gear sweeper?

You need to address this with Detroit Speed and they apply the leverage on Moser.

I'm no consumer rights or law suit advocate but the negligence and potential liability associated with the components and assembly needs to be addressed by both the supplier and manufacturer IMO.

All said, I'm glad you're able to post your findings and your repair costs are insignificant to other scenarios. :thumbsup:

Vegas69

03-22-2013, 08:10 PM

If it had been a big block, they would have sheared, not fell out. Just thought I'd point that out. :walkingdog:

FETorino

03-22-2013, 08:18 PM

Never ever in all my life around quite a few cars and car guys have I ever heard of anything like that happening. Dead serious. Never.

Matt FTW!!!

Never say never :mock:

http://www.elitestangs.com/forum/showthread.php?8242-Ring-gear-bolts-sheared.-What-would-you-do-for-a-new-setup-Warning-LONG!

Vegas69

03-22-2013, 08:21 PM

From the photos, it appears the threads failed, no?

Sieg

03-22-2013, 08:22 PM

If it had been a big block, they would have sheared, not fell out. Just thought I'd point that out. :walkingdog:
:lmao:

And...........the reason they make Magnum condoms. :mock:

Matt@BOS

03-22-2013, 08:52 PM

If it had been a big block, they would have sheared, not fell out. Just thought I'd point that out. :walkingdog:

Maybe. Or, maybe they would have just rattled loose from the vibrations.

It is unclear to me how exactly the bolts came out. Most are pinched and look like there might not have been enough thread engagement to make the bolts as secure as they could have been, which would have allowed them to "wiggle," and wear away where they did. When we replaced the bolts we bought F9s that were .25" longer, and we put red loctite and AN washers on them.

Rob, I read that link you posted. Sometimes I think you are one of a handful of intelligent Ford guys, and that is mostly because you have a Corvette. :peepwall:

I'm still dumb struck that a relatively big manufacturer like Moser would have a product like this that appears, at least to me, to have more than just a quality control issue.

Track Junky

03-22-2013, 09:10 PM

Had the same thing happen to me last year but I made it home. I looked down my driveway and followed the leak down my street. Then I went to look at my car to see where it was leaking from. The rear gear kicked the only ring gear bolt that completely dropped out through my rear cover.

intocarss

03-22-2013, 09:27 PM

That sucks, sorry that happen. I use ARP ring gear bolts and always TQ and loctite them in with any kind of performance deal

In all my years I have never seen all of them fall out like that

Flash68

03-22-2013, 11:17 PM

Dude I am glad you are okay. That is not cool. Wow.

Rob, I read that link you posted. Sometimes I think you are one of a handful of intelligent Ford guys, and that is mostly because you have a Corvette. :peepwall:

Oh man that is just too good. And likely too true. :lmao: :trophy-1302:

syborg tt

03-23-2013, 08:57 AM

Marty, I was going to let the DSE folks know about it when they made their way down for Good Guys Del Mar. However they choose to deal with it is fine by me. I did purchase the part back in '08, so I don't expect anything from them, especially if Moser were to just blow them off.

In the end you got lucky it was just hardware that was damaged. However if it was greater I a certain you will feel differently. Just think if you were on the highway and you car broke down and you were rear end. There are so any different scenario's that could have played out. But in the end it was poor workmanship and incorrect hardware and that is something that DSE should be made aware of. How any others are out there with the same problem.

DSE is known for the quality and there quality control procedures and it looks like they might need to update/modify the QC procedures for their vendors. Especially when it could have caused catastrophic damage to your rear end.

Case in point many years ago I had a ring gear swap on my lifted Toyota and the tolerances were set to tight. Which caused the differential to overheat on my drive from Chicago to St Louis. Which smoke the center section, ring & pinion, all bearings and axles. In the end it cost me about $2,000 to repair the damage and a day in court ( yes I won ). So like I said you got lucky.

randy

03-23-2013, 08:08 PM

Thanks for the recommendation on Strange. I have slowly been losing faith in Moser. I was a little bugged by my experience with their 9" with Torino big bearing ends. But that was really due to my actual use versus their intended use. I had a friend with one of their full floaters, which he described as a piece of junk that fell apart. In all seriousness I never really considered calling them, because I figured it wouldn't be worth my while, I figured I'd ask in case anyone had an overwhelmingly positive experience.

Greg, I'm not sure it is a good thing or a bad thing that you've never seen anything like this. I seem to have the best luck for having the best outcome from some of the worst luck. :lol:

Skip, I'm not sure name dropping OUSCI would work when they asked what my name was and I said Matt Alcala, spelled M-a-r-k S-t-i-e-l-o-w. :lol:

Marty, I was going to let the DSE folks know about it when they made their way down for Good Guys Del Mar. However they choose to deal with it is fine by me. I did purchase the part back in '08, so I don't expect anything from them, especially if Moser were to just blow them off.

what issues did you have with the torino big bearing ends and now you are scaring me alittle about my dse moser 9"

Matt@BOS

03-23-2013, 09:28 PM

what issues did you have with the torino big bearing ends and now you are scaring me alittle about my dse moser 9"

I just don't think those bearings are cut out to take the kind of abuse they're given if you have wide wheels and drive the car hard. At the first several events I thought the brakes really sucked. Hell, I had I hard time stopping in the provided area on a Good Guys autocross. With those bearings, fixed calipers and a manual 7/8" master cylinder it was less than ideal for an idiot like me to do, especially if I had to do a panic stop for some reason. Literally every gradual turn would push the pistons back into the rear brake calipers.

If you are worried about youre Moser 9" just check it out before you get the car running and if you feel uncomfortable about it change the bolts out like I had to do.

Matt