69 Camaro at Best of Show

[brotourer]

its looking very good matt.

[tones2SS]

Very cool. She's coming together rather quickly.
Keep us posted.:thumbsup:

[waynieZ]

That is going to look awesome.

[brotourer]

so if i said you were getting a shirt sent to you, be excited cuz they are getting shipped out tomorrow.

as for the people that are getting shirts and live within driving distance aka:
matt "my car is purple and so is my brotouring shirt" alcala
greg "im not from australia, mate" blundel
steve "i dont have a cool nick name for you but come get your shirt" rupp
come get them.

bro it up bro it out,
brotourer

[Matt@BOS]

Cool, I look forward to seeing the shirts.

Dropped by Best of Show yesterday. Jon has been color sanding and buffing all week to make sure there is no orange peel, as well as get out any of what he calls FLA, or fat lady's ass, which is very hard to describe, but is that little bit of lumpiness in the clearcoat, that is larger than orange peel.

Most importantly though, we no longer have to worry about finding a spot for SEMA, now we just have to worry about making it :_paranoid . The car will be there thanks to Vintage Air :hail:

Matt

[brotourer]

that is truely fantastic news.

[Cris@JCG]

Vintage Air booth?

Cool, I look forward to seeing the shirts.

Dropped by Best of Show yesterday. Jon has been color sanding and buffing all week to make sure there is no orange peel, as well as get out any of what he calls FLA, or fat lady's ass, which is very hard to describe, but is that little bit of lumpiness in the clearcoat, that is larger than orange peel.

Most importantly though, we no longer have to worry about finding a spot for SEMA, now we just have to worry about making it :_paranoid . The car will be there thanks to Vintage Air :hail:

Matt

[Steve1968LS2]

Vintage Air booth?

No.. just there under the Vintage Air sponsorship. From my conversation with Mr. Love it Could be inside or outside.

Matt owes me a lunch :)

I will be there in a week with Penny to clean her up.. I can get my way cool shirt at that time.

[Matt@BOS]

Matt owes me a lunch :)



Not only that, I think I owe you some drinks in Vegas too :cheers: You have no idea how worried we were that we'd have a 99% finished car that wouldn't be there.

I'm also thinking the week after sema, some of that smoked, pulled pork, might be in order for the Best of Show crew and all the shop regulars . (Chris and the brotourer know what I'm talking about)

Matt

[brotourer]

Not only that, I think I owe you some drinks in Vegas too :cheers: You have no idea how worried we were that we'd have a 99% finished car that wouldn't be there.

I'm also thinking the week after sema, some of that smoked, pulled pork, might be in order for the Best of Show crew and all the shop regulars . (Chris and the brotourer know what I'm talking about)

Matt

woooooo sign me up for some of the ceramic egg bbqin you do sooooo well. oh yea and some of those free drinks youll be handin out at sema! :cheers:

[Matt@BOS]

The thrash is on! Things are coming together really quickly, mostly because they have to.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0053.jpg

Powder coated Z06 brakes.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0048.jpg

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0047.jpg

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0038.jpg

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0037.jpg
Exhaust goes in tomorrow, and the front end goes on this weekend.
Now, its off to the trim shop to pick up some kick panels and a center console. Hopefully we'll have seats for sema :_paranoid

Matt

[Jack Maurer]

What model and size the Forgeline wheel in the pic?

[tones2SS]

Looking good guys!:thumbsup:

[Steve1968LS2]

Nice.. I can check it out this weekend when I bring Penny back...

[Matt@BOS]

What model and size the Forgeline wheel in the pic?

Wheels are ZX3Ps with brushed, powdercoated spokes, and polished lips. Fronts are 18x9, rears are 18x12.

Steve, you're in luck if you plan on dropping by over the weekend. Dick is planning on putting the front end together around that time, so you might be one the first to see it all in one piece (more or less).

What has been done to Penny by the way? Are the new brakes already on?

[brotourer]

matty mattenhiemer,

first and foremost, tell your mom thank you for the (not)special brownies, they were fantastic :yes:

second, i know you have some action shots of the brotourer from today and i would appreciate if you didnt post them, as you know i like to remain a man of mystery.

third, your car is purple.

bro it up bro it out,
brotourer

[Matt@BOS]

matty mattenhiemer,


second, i know you have some action shots of the brotourer from today and i would appreciate if you didnt post them, as you know i like to remain a man of mystery.

bro it up bro it out,
brotourer

Yes, I did take some pictures. Just in case, I have removed the faces, so those portrayed can retain some level of anonymity.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0051-1.jpg

and a crappy teaser shot of the interior

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0055.jpg

Matt

[GregWeld]

Which one of them is wearing PURPLE??
:lol: :rofl:

[Steve1968LS2]

I recognise those pasty arms...

[bigtyme1]

so if i said you were getting a shirt sent to you, be excited cuz they are getting shipped out tomorrow.

as for the people that are getting shirts and live within driving distance aka:
matt "my car is purple and so is my brotouring shirt" alcala
greg "im not from australia, mate" blundel
steve "i dont have a cool nick name for you but come get your shirt" rupp
come get them.

bro it up bro it out,
brotourer

Got Bro, thanks

[brotourer]

Got Bro, thanks


oh for sure. see you at sema.

[Matt@BOS]

This past week I was reminded of how much orange county/LA traffic sucks. On the bright side though, we got to pick up the remainder of parts from the trim shop, and some stuff from classic industries. The intake manifold went on, the brake lines were bent, and a bunch of other things were done. The car also went out for exhaust, which is currently being coated. Power window regulators came as well. I think we might have everything we need now (maybe that's being too optimistic). At this point the Best of Show crew are into the thick of the sema crunch, and working their asses off.

And a couple pics from the weekend, hopefully, next time you guys see the car, it will be in person. The car has to be at the convention center at 8am on Sunday (is this a good time?), which means that Chris and Dick will be having a nice early morning drive :unibrow:

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0074.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0075.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0066.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0069.jpg

Matt

[ironworks]

Looking good guys, I will have to look you up on Sunday when my truck goes in the booth.

Maybe we can get some dinner and drinks Sunday night when the Load is off our backs.

Keep up the good work

[tones2SS]

VERY NICE!!
She's looking good.:thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

A quote from the movie "The Bird Cage"....

One must have just a hint of color....

I like it!

[Matt@BOS]

Looking good guys, I will have to look you up on Sunday when my truck goes in the booth.


Keep up the good work

Haha, I'm not sure any of us will be around after the move in. Dick had talked about driving up, storing the trailer, then hitting the road, only to drive up again on Tuesday.



Maybe we can get some dinner and drinks Sunday night when the Load is off our backs.

Dick might not be around Sunday night, but he did say yesterday that beer-o-clock started around 10am with football :lol:

Can't wait to see your truck BTW. In fact, there are so many cars I want to see, I'll have to make up a list or something

[Steve1968LS2]

Looking good guys, I will have to look you up on Sunday when my truck goes in the booth.

Maybe we can get some dinner and drinks Sunday night when the Load is off our backs.

Keep up the good work

I want in on this dinner.. lol

[Steve1968LS2]

I was at the shop and caught the whole crew of BOS doing the SEMA thrash on Matt's Camaro.. Here Matt and the BroTouring King gaze upon the awsomness of the Camaro..

Purple rocks!

http://i38.tinypic.com/5bw8cn.jpg

[Steve1968LS2]

New exhaust installed.. fuel lines going in.. getting closer. (notice the two electric cut outs)

http://i36.tinypic.com/2eeerdh.jpg

[tones2SS]

Thanks for the pics Steve.
That car is looking good!!:thumbsup:

[phillym5]

wow... the exhaust is amazing!!

[Bowtieracing]

Awsome build and i really love those wheels!!!!!!!

[buickfunnycar.com]

wow... the exhaust is amazing!!

Very sweet indeed...:thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

So it is around 4:30 in the morning over here, and I couldn't get to sleep so I'll let a set of pictures do some talking

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0077.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0078.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0080.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0081.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0082.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0086.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0087.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0088.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0089.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0091.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0093.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0096.jpg

Pictures can only tell, or show some much though. What you can't really see are the headlight doors that don't really fit, and aren't running, the door gaps, which are a bit off, or even the back of the hood that pops up on the driver's edge by the cowl. Not to mention the clutch which needs to be properly bled, and a host of other things. Sure, the car fired right up today, but yesterday involved a big struggle in tracking down some fuel system gremlins. The car really fought us all the way

We were almost ready to just load her up and push her in, but at the end of the day, about an hour or two ago, with the way the sheet metal was fitting, there was a unanimous agreement to call it quits. It was frustrating as hell, but none of us wanted a car that looked thrown together.

So from here on out, the gang at Best of Show will be working to get the car done, and not just SEMA done. Even now, it looks killer, I think it would have fit in fine at the convention. However, I think everyone involved has invested too much time and effort to show up with an unpolished project.

I'm pretty sure I have a page long list of people that I owe drinks to now :cheers: , so we will all still be at sema. Keep your eye out for some brotouring shirts and decals. I shouldn't be hard to spot, Brad made me a shirt to match the camaro, and I somehow doubt purple shirts are all the rage these days.

Matt

[bigtyme1]

Don't sweat it matt, I agree. no sence in showing a car that's not finished. But I'm sure you would have been just fine. There's alot of cars that get pushed in and bolted togethor on the floor. will see you tuesday. Hey if you get a chance put up some shots of the dash.

[Roger M]

Regardless of the setbacks, your car looks awesome :thumbsup: . That color looks sweet.

[Vegas69]

Car looks great man. It takes time even for the professionals to get it right. Tweaking is a huge part of the build and makes or breaks a car in my opinion. The main thing is you have a killer car that's about to be a reality. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Matt ~

It Looks great!

[Cris@JCG]

Car is lookn very nice :thumbsup: I will be looking for it @ SEMA!

[buickfunnycar.com]

Good call,take a break and finish it right,no sense doing things twice.
Car looks screaming,love all the mesh details...can't wait to see it really completed.:yes:

[phillym5]

Man she looks great. Love those rims on there. :captain:

[awr68]

Looks great guys!! Now get some rest!! :cheers:

[tones2SS]

The car looks great. Good to see it on some wheels.
Great job guys.:thumbsup:

[Gandalf]

Matt - I'm bummed for you (and the shop) that the car could not be at the show. It definitely was not for lack of trying on anyone's part. The car is absolutely killer and the photos posted do not do the car justice. The interior is incredible. The gauges and the smell of leather throughout just like a new car....mmmmmm. And the stance of the car....there's something sexy about walking up to one of these first-gens and have the roofline not even come up to chest hieght.

I was lucky enough to be there last night and watch the BOS team in action. They make it look so easy. I could not believe what got accomplished in the final 12hrs. Incredible and I learned a LOT about final assembly and prep of a car of this caliber. (I watched Matt clean the entire tread-pattern of those big meats by hand!) And I don't know where to begin with the BOS guys - just incredible to watch them work. Unfortunately those few last minute gremlins did not let-up and I will say this about BOS: despite the huge opportunity to have the car at SEMA and being ssoooooooooooooooo close, my hat is off to them for choosing to maintain the integrity of the shop and it's reputation. They were clear the car was not leaving until it was absolutely 100%. No compromises, no shortcuts and a general unwillingness for the show-goers to experience anything less than the very best BOS have to offer. I know a lot of shops (where I have previously had my vehicles) would have been ok with the issues that came up last night. Those other shops no longer have my patronage.

Sorry for the positive rant but the efforts I witnessed first-hand last night deserve at least an attempt at being described from a (albeit biased) by-stander. A great effort by all.

My hat is off to you guys! Sweet ride Matt!

[Matt@BOS]

Gregg, thanks for sticking around last night, and well into the not quite so early morning. Those tires wouldn't look anywhere near as nice without you and your patent piece of cardboard. I don't think the fight would have lasted as long without all the caffeine you provided.

A couple weeks from now I guess we'll start resolving all the issues and maybe even have a talk with the interior guy because he never did a test fit on 75% percent of the parts he could have, which meant it took 5 hours just to try and fit the dash. The only parts that really fit were the back seats and those were done after the car left him. I ran around all over socal picking up parts for him, that he needed yesterday and wouldn't start without, then when he got them they just sat in the trunk until it left. The damn doors don't fit because he never even mocked up the sill plates with everything else in place. I'm not bitter in the the least :rolleyes: It will all look good, and he did a pretty good job covering everything, but I'm seriously thinking of taking the car elsewhere, just because I don't want to listen to him whine about having to make things fit. That is his job.

I'm only upset the car isn't going because I've never seen a group of guys work so hard, and because Vintage air stepped up to sponsor the car. Their work deserves to be there. Everyday last week,when Brad would finish something he would jokingly ask if I was proud of what he made. Well, when the car makes its first public appearance, I want the guys to be proud of what they made.

I will also say the shop's valiant effort looks to have garnered them a bit of future ink thanks to Steve, who stuck around as long as he could, by the way.
Tomorrow I think we might role it outside in the sunlight for the first time ever and see what the color looks like. Then its off to Vegas :cheers:

Matt

[Matt@BOS]

Car is lookn very nice :thumbsup: I will be looking for it @ SEMA!

Haha... SEMA 2010 I hope :lol:

[69x22]

Lookin Sweeeet!

[Cris@JCG]

Sorry to here that your 69 is not going to make it to SEMA.. I will look forward to seeing it this coming year.. This is an awesome build :thumbsup:

Haha... SEMA 2010 I hope :lol:

[GregWeld]

Matt --

Just come by the Flamingo on Tuesday -- and we'll all pour drinks down you until you feel better.... (well, until the next morning anyway).

Sorry the car won't be here - but as others have said - and you know yourself - if it's not to be - it's not to be.

I do have to ask the question in a general way - to everyone - not YOU... but why is it that we all know the dates of SEMA or any other show that is a "drop dead date" -- and we all thrash on a car that has been around for a year or TWO -- and try to finish it in the final 24 hours.... What's with that?

[DFRESH]

Matt--that sucks--sorry to hear it won't be making it out. Have been anxiously watching to see if you were gonna make it. Looking forward to seeing it though---dude--love the stance---wicked man---you guys nailed it all the way--one of the best stances on a 69 that i've seen fo sure.

You guys had to mod the inner fenders before you switched to the CF inner fender wells---how did you get it at that ride height in the front without the mods?

Hope to see you at SEMA or Pahrump.

Doug

[Matt@BOS]

Thanks guys. I'll see about dropping by the Flamingo Tuesday. Maybe even in brotouring attire. I'll definitely be going over to Pahrump on Saturday too, mostly in hopes of getting a couple rides around before things officially start.

Doug, do you mean, how did we get it sitting the way it is in the pictures with the Anvil inner fenders?

First, the stance is lower than expected because of all the added weight from the interior and the glass, so at some point there will be some tedious wrenching on the coilovers to bring the front up another half inch. Chris spent a good amount of time trying to raise the front but it didn't do much. As for making the Anvil inner fenders fit, well, they were really just "SEMA fit," which means we just cut the lip with the bolt holes around the wheel opening off, and were prepared to be really careful about making turns since we lost an inch of space. I swear, Dick was right when he said that no car he's worked on has ever fought harder. Some of it is my fault for pulling the trigger on new parts at the last minute, but still, Bad Penny's CF just bolted right up for the most part.

Matt

[Gordz32]

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/shop523.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/shop524.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/shop525.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/shop526.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/shop527.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/shop528.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/shop529.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/shop530.jpg

[tones2SS]

WOW! Nice looking car guys!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[redfire69]

Totally awesome. Love the custom spoiler w the Marquez valance!:thumbsup:

[bigtyme1]

Looks killer guys, where did you get the front spoiler?

[Al Moreno]

Very nice, can't wait to see it.

Hopefully GNRS in January or Delmar GG in April.

[comp-spec]

nice work

[brotourer]

Looks killer guys, where did you get the front spoiler?

i made it for matt, and no i will not be making another one lol.

[70rs]

Mind if I ask what the deal is with the hood in the pictures of it outside? Was the latch just not set?

I do like the stance. Is that the finished ride ht?

[brotourer]

Mind if I ask what the deal is with the hood in the pictures of it outside? Was the latch just not set?

I do like the stance. Is that the finished ride ht?

yea the hood wasnt latched broseph :P

ps. whos ready for vegas?!...the brotourer sure is!

[awr68]

Car looks great!! :thumbsup:

[Steve1968LS2]

why is it that we all know the dates of SEMA or any other show that is a "drop dead date" -- and we all thrash on a car that has been around for a year or TWO -- and try to finish it in the final 24 hours.... What's with that?

Because cars are evil bitches.. that's why.. ;)

[Matt@BOS]

Sorry for the bandwidth issues. I know its been going on since Tuesday, when I was trying to show pictures of the car to Tyler at sema. Anyone have ideas on a good picture hosting site? I've been using photobucket, but I guess there has been too much traffic to this page now that its got a link from the home page. I suppose I could just upgrade to pro... On the bright side, its kinda cool to know that people are interested in the car.

BTW It was nice to meet some of you guys at sema and put faces to names. I think Brad and I will be wearing brotouring shirts at the optima event tomorrow. If you see us, feel free to say hi, it would be nice to get to know this little community better.

Matt

[The T-man]

wow, nice car and progress, that Hogans and valve covers tie together nicely

If you don't mind some feedback, the exhaust tips would look alot nicer flipped 180 degrees

[ironworks]

Sorry for the bandwidth issues. I know its been going on since Tuesday, when I was trying to show pictures of the car to Tyler at sema. Anyone have ideas on a good picture hosting site? I've been using photobucket, but I guess there has been too much traffic to this page now that its got a link from the home page. I suppose I could just upgrade to pro... On the bright side, its kinda cool to know that people are interested in the car.

BTW It was nice to meet some of you guys at sema and put faces to names. I think Brad and I will be wearing brotouring shirts at the optima event tomorrow. If you see us, feel free to say hi, it would be nice to get to know this little community better.

Matt

Just pay the 20 bucks and upgrade to Photobucket Pro. This way you don't have to upload your pics all over again.

[fleet]

Just pay the 20 bucks and upgrade to Photobucket Pro. This way you don't have to upload your pics all over again.

I wasn't surprised to learn Imageshack's site was hacked into a few months back since I had been having having issues with Imageshack too frequently.

I'm not saying the hacking was connected to the issues I had, but I wasn't going to risk it.

So I went PB Pro.

[Matt@BOS]

Ok, I upgraded to photobucket pro so the pictures are working again.

T-man, I don't mind the input at all. I can't say I'm going to have the guys cut into the freshly painted tail panel though. I'll give it some time before I do anything. I have been thinking about though, and what bugs me is the fact that it doesn't sit flush with the rear, which angles and slopes off rather sharply, while the exhaust tips don't.

Hell, maybe if I win the brotouring sema photo contest, Brad will make up some sweet flush fitting exhaust tips as a prize :lol: Speaking of subject, where are those photos Brad. Don't hold out on us. I know everyone is eager to see pics of those booth professionals giving some love to the brotouring tee.

Matt

[NovaBlue71]

Car is looking great guys, love the stance and wheel choice. Joe :thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

I created a slideshow for a couple relatives interested in seeing our project, so I figured I might as well post it up for all to see. It'll probably take five minutes to watch everything, but for me at least, it's pretty cool being able to see the the basic process of the car's build, and how it went together, and came a part numerous times. While what has been a year and a half, and will be about two years by the time it's completely done has seemed like a long process, I'd say it has been pretty quick considering all that has been done. The entire project has been a blast. I can still remember winning the ebay auction for the car. I was the only one that even bid on the car, and ended up wondering if I'd done okay bringing home a a supposedly rust free shell with new sheet metal, and pile of parts for 12 grand. There wasn't a spec of rust on the car though so I guess we did okay, or rather, got really lucky.

If you look closely at the back glass you might even notice that Steve Rupp claimed the car for Camaro Performers before it was even finished. Man, when we took home the shell from Vegas, I never imagined it would be anything like it is, or even that it would get some ink in a magazine.

http://s366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/th_8533_1JPG.jpg (http://s366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/?action=view&current=e43ccd34.pbw)







http://s366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/th_shop425.jpg (http://s366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/?action=view&current=1e79bd49.pbw)



After giving the guys at the shop a bit of a break, and attempting to pay off some debt by cooking them some 14 hour barbecued pulled pork, I think we finalized our plans for finishing it. January looks as though it is shaping up to be a good month. Since we hope to have it drivable by then, we figured we should learn how to properly drive something with some power, so my dad and I will be going out to Bondurant and taking the 4 day Grand Prix Road Racing class instead of the 3 day, only because it has been my dad's dream, ever since he was a child, to take an open wheeled car around a race track. Then, for the last week, we are hoping to have the car at the Grand National Roadster Show

Matt

[brotourer]

man i know ive been slacking on the pictures, my computer skills are pretty much non existent. maybe over the long weekend for thanksgiving i will find the time to post up some of the "brotouring sema coverage"

untill then...keep it bro-ed up.

[nvr2fst]

Never thought a shade of purple would look so good on a camaro. She turned out real nice!

[Matt@BOS]

Thanks, I was a little worried myself for a while.

I've got a little update for the Camaro. the car has just been sitting around the shop since we missed sema, and while its cool to drop by and look at it nearly done, its it is also a bit of a sad reminder that it didn't get done. All of us were upset that we couldn't get the car presentable enough to take, but I think it might have bothered my dad the most. He was really looking forward to seeing it on the floor. With that said, I figured we would plan for a Christmas surprise for him, (don't worry, he doesn't use the internet much). We've got about three weeks to deal with the clutch issue, re-align the front sheet metal, finish modding the Anvil inner fenders and do some electrical odds and ends, so Dick and I figured getting the car ready for Christmas should be possible. If it's done this time, the plan is to have Dick take it to Cars and Coffee on the 26th, while we drag my dad up there. He will no doubt be grumbling about having to get up early on a Saturday, but as long as we can get him there, I think he'll be surprised about what he sees.

I'm getting a bit ahead of myself here, but maybe we even have a little pro-touring meet with some locals? It'd be cool to see the car lined up with some other pro-touring rides.


Matt

[ironworks]

There is always another car show. But there is only one time to do things right.

The car will be awesome, I'm sure.

[Matt@BOS]

There is always another car show. But there is only one time to do things right.



I mean, we could just keep throwing it together and almost taking it, but that gets costly.

But you are right. We won't be doing things over this time around. My dad might be getting his Christmas present in the middle or end of January :lol: . Luckily, like you said, there is not shortage of shows/meets so we will surprise him... when it's good and ready.

Matt

[Jr]

Thanks, I was a little worried myself for a while.

I've got a little update for the Camaro. the car has just been sitting around the shop since we missed sema, and while its cool to drop by and look at it nearly done, its it is also a bit of a sad reminder that it didn't get done. All of us were upset that we couldn't get the car presentable enough to take, but I think it might have bothered my dad the most. He was really looking forward to seeing it on the floor. With that said, I figured we would plan for a Christmas surprise for him, (don't worry, he doesn't use the internet much). We've got about three weeks to deal with the clutch issue, re-align the front sheet metal, finish modding the Anvil inner fenders and do some electrical odds and ends, so Dick and I figured getting the car ready for Christmas should be possible. If it's done this time, the plan is to have Dick take it to Cars and Coffee on the 26th, while we drag my dad up there. He will no doubt be grumbling about having to get up early on a Saturday, but as long as we can get him there, I think he'll be surprised about what he sees.

I'm getting a bit ahead of myself here, but maybe we even have a little pro-touring meet with some locals? It'd be cool to see the car lined up with some other pro-touring rides.


Matt

Matt,
This is going to be at the cars and coffee in Irvine?

[Matt@BOS]

Matt,
This is going to be at the cars and coffee in Irvine?

That is the plan :_paranoid

[redfire69]

Awesome build, can't wait to see the finished pics! :cheers:

[awr68]

Thant's a great plan Matt!

[Matt@BOS]

Well, its been a couple of weeks of the crew at Best of Show quietly plugging away on the car, albeit at a much more manageable pace this time, at it looks as though my Dad's Christmas gift might arrive (almost on time) for Cars and Coffee on the 26th.

Dick just called me to let me know that it finally moved under its own power, and since my dad is completely in the dark on this one, I had to tell someone. After having to go through and check over the transmission they figured out that we had a bad brand new slave cylinder. Under parking lot Driving conditions, raised a 1/4" from the previous pictures, it doesn't rub, which is good news for anyone that wants Anvil's inner fenders.

The electrical is all done too, so all that needs to be addressed at this point is fitting the inner fenders to our cut and rolled fender lips, and refitting the front to align everything. The cutouts work, too and damn does it sound wicked for a pretty tame LS. Pictures will follow tomorrow. I would love to share sound as well, but I don't think any of us have a video camera.

Also, Dick has started to ask some shop customers and friends to go up to Cars and Coffee in Irvine on the 26th, and I figured I would as well. If there is anyone local to socal, that doesn't mind getting up early, we would really like to have a local gathering of pro-touring guys.

Matt

[awr68]

That awesome MAtt! BIG parts of the build done and marked off the to-do list!! Almost done!! :thumbsup:

[Gordz32]

Just wanted to post an update for everyone. It lives, the car is back together and Dick and i both drove the car for some shake down miles. We actually didn't have any issues other than adjusting the coilovers so the car sat level. All that's left is for Dick to adjust the front sheetmetal. But I must say the car feels amazing and pulls really well. Im sure Matt will chime in soon. I'm off to the east coast for Xmas.

["Swoosh"]

just awesome :thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

Dropped off the rear view mirror yesterday afternoon, and got a ride :D . Everything is looking, sounding and working ok so far. It was kinda weird to think of our car as something that is actually drivable :lol:

[Steve1968LS2]

Dropped off the rear view mirror yesterday afternoon, and got a ride :D . Everything is looking, sounding and working ok so far. It was kinda weird to think of our car as something that is actually drivable :lol:

So your Camaro is becomming drivable so that my car can become undrivable. lol

The stance on your car is killer.

[Vegas69]

I remember that with mine. You forget that the end goal is a car that actually moves!

[Matt@BOS]

So your Camaro is becomming drivable so that my car can become undrivable. lol

The stance on your car is killer.

I don't know about that. I thought Dick promised to make your car undrivable only after your completely insane 440 LSX is delivered :unibrow:

The stance also came up a bit. should be about 23 1/2" from the ground to the line on the front wheel opening now. I don't think it looks bad though. We've even got about 6.5-7" of clearance under the front spoiler, which is nice. Looks like we will be ready for Cars and Coffee Saturday morning.

Matt

[Steve1968LS2]

I don't know about that. I thought Dick promised to make your car undrivable only after your completely insane 440 LSX is delivered :unibrow:

The stance also came up a bit. should be about 23 1/2" from the ground to the line on the front wheel opening now. I don't think it looks bad though. We've even got about 6.5-7" of clearance under the front spoiler, which is nice. Looks like we will be ready for Cars and Coffee Saturday morning.

Matt

It's only going to be around 680 hp... that's only semi insane. lol

Don't dent that front spoiler or Brad will start crying.. really..

[awr68]

Very cool, Matt! Happy for you and can't wait to hear how shocked Dad is!!

The guys at BOS kick ass!! :thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

It's only going to be around 680 hp... that's only semi insane. lol

Don't dent that front spoiler or Brad will start crying.. really..

True, I just found my hp memo from earlier this year notifying me that 680 is the new 500. I suppose I've just thought of it as insane because it has, what 500 lbs-ft. of torque from 3000 rpm, and is going in a car that weights somewhere around 2700 lbs when done.

As for the spoiler, I think I will start crying before Brad. At least he gets paid to make another. I'd love to have a bunch in fiberglass or carbon fiber, but molds aren't cheap, and unless everyone wants one, it looks like I'll have to be very careful.

Matt

[Mean 69]

Had the pleasure of a quick visit to the guys at BOS on Monday, and took a good look at the car. It's pretty darned nice, there are a lot of nice, subtle touches, and the build quality is terrific. Didn't get a ride, but did get to hear it run and it sounds fantastic. With luck, I might be at the event on Saturday, but to be honest I'd be just as happy watching the car run down the road, it has the absolute perfect stance. The color, although not for me, is really spectacular, one that pictures don't bring out the true intensity and beauty. In the sun it knocks your socks off, a great choice.

One very nice car!!!!! Enjoy!
Mark

[mexMan]

Hey! I found your car in a session from Cars and Coffee
http://cncpics.com/d/273158-4/cnc091226+005.JPG
Looks really cool!

[tones2SS]

Looks really awesome!:thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

Thanks mexMan, I opened the link and found a couple more.

Damn is it cool to see it driving, http://cncpics.com/d/275971-4/DSC04697.JPG

The car was a pretty big hit, and my dad was shocked to see it there. It was pretty funny, for the first 10 minutes after we got there there he was just standing there staring at it, while there were a ton of people hoping he would get out of their pictures :lol: The event was great, and packed. I think everyone had a good time despite getting up unreasonably early for a Saturday, and the cold (for Socal) and overcast weather.

Thanks go out to Steve Rupp and Dick, as well as the rest of the gand for getting up at 5:30 to get a couple good spots so we could have a 1969 and 2010 parked facing each other, right out front. Speaking of Steve, I know he took some nice shots of the gathering, maybe he will post some up...

Matt

[tmadden]

Man it looks sweet. Great choice of color.

[mexMan]

There's a pic of it rolling to, looks really neat.

[phillym5]

69MSA...
Is that a modified stock front bumper on your car??

[Steve1968LS2]

I'm out of town on vacation, so I will load up a couple pics when I get back. Found these on the C&C site.

http://cncpics.com/d/275810-4/DSC04672.JPG

http://cncpics.com/d/274917-4/cnc091226+320.JPG

http://cncpics.com/d/274958-4/cnc091226+328.JPG

[Steve1968LS2]

more from that site:

http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/Toofastforyou/Cars%20and%20Coffee%20Dec%2026%202009/IMG_4778.jpg

[awr68]

It looks great! :thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

69MSA...
Is that a modified stock front bumper on your car??

Sure is. we had the "teeth" and the license plate indentation taken out to clean things up since there isn't room for a front plate. Brad took the bumper bolts out as well, while he was at it. I like it a lot, especially because we didn't screw around with the gapping on it, which gets costly(er) quickly... and we had to draw the line on mods somewhere :lol:

Matt

[DFRESH]

Wow----Matt, let us know when you are heading back out to CC--I would really like to see the car in person as I am sure pictures cannot do it justice.

Doug

[Matt@BOS]

Yeah, sure thing Doug. I'd like to take it up again. Maybe sometime towards the end of January or early February.

Here are a couple shots I uploaded from the weekend:
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0180.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0181.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0183.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0184.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0182.jpg

Matt

[tones2SS]

Nice looking car. She come out really nice and blows the 2010 Camaro away, in my opinion.:thumbsup: :cheers:

[Bow Tie 67]

It turned out nice. I see everyone has coats on what did it drop to 60* :willy:

[fleet]

Nice looking car. She come out really nice and blows the 2010 Camaro away, in my opinion.:thumbsup: :cheers:

Not even a fair fight! :lol:

[DFRESH]

Cool deal Matt. If you get there before I do, don't save me a spot---no way I am going to park mine next to that work of art :lol:

Doug

[Rybar]

Car looks fantastic :thumbsup:

[buickfunnycar.com]

wheels are perfect,flat out nailed the look and stance...

[Steve1968LS2]

wheels are perfect,flat out nailed the look and stance...

Yea, I snapped this today... it's crazy that this is the ride heigth and there's no tire rubbing issues.. just looks crazy good this low.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2rdj4au.jpg

[nvr2fst]

Beautiful looking car Matt. Bet your dad was excited as can be.

[Flash68]

Now that is pretty!

[waynieZ]

The car looks great. Well done!

[Kendall Burleson]

Killer Stance love the paint.

[tones2SS]

Killer Stance love the paint.

I agree with Kendall. That stance is great!:thumbsup:

[pokey64]

You guys nailed it!!! :bow:

[Matt@BOS]

Thanks for the kind words guys. here are another couple shots I liked that show off the stance,
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0233.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0234.jpg

Also I had to post post up because we took home our first trophy this weekend. Probably the coolest trophy ever, for a car show. I'll let the pictures speak for themselves :D

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0236.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0238.jpg

Matt

[KPC67]

The more i see of this car the more i like it, Great job to everyone involved!:thumbsup:

[tones2SS]

Paint and stance = :bow: :cheers:

[dlouie87]

Great looking Ride.

what is the front suspension of this car again?

-Dan

[Teetoe_Jones]

It's a DSE front hydroformed frame.

Dude, where is the engine shot? I want to see the CF inner fenders!!

Tyler

[redfire69]

X2!!! :thumbsup:

...Dude, where is the engine shot? I want to see the CF inner fenders!!

[Matt@BOS]

Tyler, you got me there. I don't actually have any nice shots of the inner fenders in all of their carbon fiber glory. There was a really nice, tight shot of the engine, from a somewhat low perspective, showing off the inner fenders. It was a couple pages back, and taken by someone at cars and coffee. I think it fell victim to bandwidth constraints though, because it isn't showing up. I'll take some pics this week. Oh and the CF inner fenders have been a big hit at the two gatherings we've been to so far. Actually people ask about everything from Anvil.

Oh and we finally got to meet our fair share of "car guys," I heard people say it was everything from a 67 Camaro to a "Hotchis type of build" and someone even explained that we had some kind of ramjet motor. Ah car shows. I figure I might be able to last through one show season. Maybe...

Matt

[Gandalf]

I heard people say it was everything from a 67 Camaro to a "Hotchis type of build" and someone even explained that we had some kind of ramjet motor.

You have to love how a bucket of coffee and a breakfast burrito on a Saturday morning makes every Schmoe and instant expert LOL!

Congrats on the first award Matt! Many more to come I am sure.

G.

[skatinjay27]

.

Oh and we finally got to meet our fair share of "car guys," I heard people say it was everything from a 67 Camaro to a "Hotchis type of build" and someone even explained that we had some kind of ramjet motor. Ah car shows. I figure I might be able to last through one show season. Maybe...

Mattlol, yeah that one of the most annoying aspects of car shows...

[DFRESH]

Oh and we finally got to meet our fair share of "car guys," I heard people say it was everything from a 67 Camaro to a "Hotchis type of build" and someone even explained that we had some kind of ramjet motor. Ah car shows. I figure I might be able to last through one show season. Maybe...

Matt[/QUOTE]

Car guys--LOL---that's awesome--hard to believe that a car of this caliber still gets the lame duck comments---I think we should call those guys "Car show guys"---I've never heard any lame comments at the track before---maybe we can isolate this type of behavior to just the shows--

Doug

[ironworks]

You should try taking my truck to car shows and have to sit by it all day.

The 3 best comments, Honestly.

1. Does that thing have a Butt massager? No that is the air ride control panel.

2. Is That one of them there Haliburton rear ends? No Sir, I think you mean Halibrand rear end. No Son I said Haliburton. Oh Sorry, you right you did.

3. Why does it have 2 brake pedals? 2 brake pedals what do you mean? Look right there, see those 2 brake pedals....... OH, Sir that is a clutch pedal.

Car show season is almost upon us......I'm excited.....:D

[redfire69]

Do the CF inner fenders allow for extra clearance given your car's stance? TIA - Ron

[Teetoe_Jones]

Do the CF inner fenders allow for extra clearance given your car's stance? TIA - Ron

Yes. They are wider and taller than stock to allow (if you have the frame clearance) to run a 10" wide wheel without needing to mod your inner fenders.

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=23133&highlight=fender

Tyler

[Matt@BOS]

Ron, as our car is set up now, the CF inners had to be modified to get the desired stance. We had rolled the fender lip up beforehand, so the two parts needed some modification to fit together. I don't think it would be possible to get this ride height, without rubbing on the outside, without modification. But as Tyler said, it can fit a 10 wide wheel. The wheel specs would have to be different or the height might have to come up 1/2" for a car without modification. I'd really like to see someone build a wheel around an aftermarket subframe and the CF inner fenders.

Matt

[redfire69]

Guys, thanks for the replies. Decisions....decisions! Ron

[DOOM]

'' I'd really like to see someone build a wheel around an aftermarket subframe and the CF inner fenders''

Thats exactly what I'm doing right now Matt. I'm waiting for my Anvil tubs as we speak. I'll be using a DSE sub so will see how this works out. I'm going to be running 19's all the way around ..:lateral:

[69x22]

The car came out beautiful, I don't know why but i always liked the RS cars with the headlight doors open.

[nvr2fst]

Matt, the photos at cars and coffee look great. As stated before, killer color.
Is there anything left that you need to address on the car or are you just concentrating on "driver mode"

[Matt@BOS]

We're easing into driver mode. I think the plan is to start dyno tuning at around 1000ish miles. In the mean time, the baseline tune works okay. Chris fixed the headlight doors so they open and close now, and are operated by one of the switches since he found a way to run them independent of the lights. I've got some pictures, just haven't uploaded them. It doesn't look so awkward anymore, although I was starting to get used to it.

We still have several things left, first the inner fenders need to get fiberglassed where they were cut, and then the power rear windows need to be installed since the regulators we ordered were built improperly. After that the car will go in to the trim shop to finish the trunk. Dick and I wanted to have this done for Goodguys Del Mar in April. Eventually I'd like to modify the center console for a hand brake along with some billet pieces I've been thinking of having Brad make. Oh and I'm trying to figure out where to put cup holders since we plan on some roadtripping. I'm just waiting on the center console I was supposed to get with the Marquez interior, since I'm not cutting up the finished one. I figure it might make a nice project when it gets to me next summer :_paranoid

[Matt@BOS]

Ok, so the guys at the shop said the car got a little under construction write up in Popular Hot Rodding, is this true? If anyone knows, could you tell me what issue, and maybe even put up a scan...that would be really cool!

Also because everyone likes pictures, here is one of the finished front, it is amazing how different it looks with the doors closed.
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0246.jpg

Matt

[Rybar]

Car looks Killer Matt, I always liked the way the RS doors look closed. I always leave mine closed, even with my HID's on :yes:

[Al Moreno]

I love it. great job and congrats.:thumbsup:

Is it going to be at GNRS?

[waynieZ]

Matt it looked great when I was there.

[tones2SS]

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0246.jpg

Matt

That is a great looking car Matt!:thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

I love it. great job and congrats.:thumbsup:

Is it going to be at GNRS?

Well, in the time that we've been trying to call the GNRS, without response, to get the car in, apparently the event has filled up. So it doubt we will be inside. Suppose we could do the whole "drive in" thing and have it parked outside, but that is up to Dick at this point since he is still looking after it.

Matt

[Matt@BOS]

As many of you know, projects like ours are never done. In my case, I've been looking into adding a pair cup holders since we plan on a fair amount of long drives. Besides, what kind of grand tourer these days doesn't have cup holders?

There Aren't a ton of options for them in our car. The door panels are already done, so we can't put any in the doors, which might have looked weird anyway. The center console doesn't allow a ton of space either, and these: http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1838139 might get in the way of the driver's arm.

Today, I think I may have stumbled on the perfect solution. The setup I just discovered does not require modification, and is removable so it won't get in the way for track events. It can also be placed in a number of spots thanks to the nature of the product. Here is a picture of the cup holder set up I just found:

http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/129088614697714380.jpg?w=500&h=667

Cool isn't it? I was thinking if I could use some of that aluminum duct-tape it would match the console insert, as well as the a/c bezels, and look right at home. Let me know what you guys think. If enough people like it I might be able to get a group buy together.

Matt

[Vegas69]

:rofl: :rofl: I was joking around about those old cup holder that hang from the door panel the other day for my car. I guess it's not pro touring without at least one cup holder. :rolleyes:

[GregWeld]

Matt! Great find!

If I ordered 2 pair... because I have the back seat in the Nomad so would like to have a set for the passengers too... would there be free shipping? I'm sure these would work fine attached to the back of the front seat! :thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

Matt! Great find!

If I ordered 2 pair... because I have the back seat in the Nomad so would like to have a set for the passengers too... would there be free shipping? I'm sure these would work fine attached to the back of the front seat! :thumbsup:

I'm not sure, I will have to contact homedep...I mean my supplier. If Todd is in for a set too (and I hope he knows a deal when he sees it. Because these are far superior to the window cup holders), then maybe I can swing free shipping. Now, if you don't mind waiting, and Steve Rupp lets me give him a set for a Camaro Performers product showcase article then maybe, just maybe, there will be enough readership interest to give everyone a serious discount, and I mean a significant one, not 10 percent. It would likely be so good that I wouldn't be able to publicly advertise the price without receiving a scolding from my supplier.

Matt

[GregWeld]

I called a guy I know at Waste Management and showed him your product. He thinks he might be able to do a contract fulfillment agreement with "drop" shipping for you. That would cut your landed cost!

[Gandalf]

I'll wait until someone does one of these in billet and I'll be all over it!

[Matt@BOS]

I'll wait until someone does one of these in billet and I'll be all over it!

Sweet... you know Best of Show has a lathe now, and I don't think the Brotourer has been busy lately, either...hmm. Also Would anyone be interested in a fake carbon fiber option?

Additionally, I came across some new swaybar technology. I'm thinking of replacing my splined swaybar with a new, "locking" one.
http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/129038018631298555.jpg?w=500&h=375

[Garage Dog 65]

Additionally, I came across some new swaybar technology. I'm thinking of replacing my splined swaybar with a new, "locking" one.
http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/129038018631298555.jpg?w=500&h=375



You mean the new Double-Locking one don't you ? The older Single-Locking version just didn't have the needed bling IMO.... And if you polished those locks - WOW !

:rofl:

[waynieZ]

Now that, I can use!

[jhiphopjunky]

Nice Ride!:)

Where can i find some pics of your cold air intake? That dual tube design is awsome!:thumbsup:

Who fabbed it up for you?

[Matt@BOS]

Thanks, Brad over at Best of Show made it. Here are a couple more pics

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/ddcnc100130164.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0267.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/shop538.jpg

Matt

[Kris Horton]

Beautiful car Matt! If I'm not mistaken, we spoke at the Driverz Inc. show yesterday. The car looks really great, the guys at Best of Show are awesome.

[tones2SS]

Awesome car. That engine bay looks great!:thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

Beautiful car Matt! If I'm not mistaken, we spoke at the Driverz Inc. show yesterday. The car looks really great, the guys at Best of Show are awesome.

Yes, that was me. Glad you like the car. It was Good talking to you at the show. Like I said before, you should bring your Mustang out to El Toro. It has all the right go-fast parts, for a show car, I'm sure it could turn in some respectable times.

Matt

[redfire69]

Matt, you running manual brakes or hydroboost? I also see you're not running hood pins. Any concerns on the latch holding? Thanks again, killer car! :thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

Matt, you running manual brakes or hydroboost? I also see you're not running hood pins. Any concerns on the latch holding? Thanks again, killer car! :thumbsup:

Ron, we're just running manual brakes. As for the hoodpins, I have a set, but we haven't installed them yet. I'm not too worried about it for the time being, but think it is probably a good idea. Also, it may sound stupid, but I haven't found a set I really like. I don't want anything eye catching, and the car is so clean and simple, almost any type of hood pin would be a major focal point.

Matt

[GregWeld]

Matt --

I saw a real nice way to secure your hood the other day --- it was a big ol' nasty rusty chain with a padlock on it...:rofl: It was on a POS pickup truck and for the life of me - I couldn't figure out what he was trying to "protect".

[syborg tt]

Ron, we're just running manual brakes. As for the hoodpins, I have a set, but we haven't installed them yet. I'm not too worried about it for the time being, but think it is probably a good idea. Also, it may sound stupid, but I haven't found a set I really like. I don't want anything eye catching, and the car is so clean and simple, almost any type of hood pin would be a major focal point.

Matt

www.hoodpins.net

plenty of choices

[Matt@BOS]

Marty, I bought a set of six shooter hood pins from hoodpins.net back in October. If I do put pins on I will probably have them anodized or powder coated black. I could also get the smooth locking ones in black, or maybe even the quick latch, low profile ones. There are more choices than I remember, are the quick latch ones new(ish)?

Matt

[syborg tt]

Marty, I bought a set of six shooter hood pins from hoodpins.net back in October. If I do put pins on I will probably have them anodized or powder coated black. I could also get the smooth locking ones in black, or maybe even the quick latch, low profile ones. There are more choices than I remember, are the quick latch ones new(ish)?

Matt

Yep - they are a new Design.

Ron has many choices now and even different finishes. I actually have a set of his hoods pins that I am sending off to get brass coated and then the plan is to Patina them for the next project. Ron really has it going on with these hood pins.

ps I love the 6 shooter design and I'm not just saying that since because Jason Rushforth is subcribed to this thread either.

[lil427z]

i like your ft spoiler . where can i get one.
thanks rick k:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[DFRESH]

So Matt, that thing is road worthy now right? Are you going to be bringing out to the RTTH event in April for some fun? Would love to see it run!!

Doug

[Matt@BOS]

i like your ft spoiler . where can i get one.
thanks rick k:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

The front spoiler is hand made from aluminum. However, I would love to have them produced in carbon fiber. If there is enough interest for normal production then anything is possible.

Doug- I have been thinking about entering the car for the last couple of days, and after reading your post, and Bill's post in the RTTC thread the other day about there only being ten or so spots, I finally got off my lazy arse and signed up tonight. I'm looking forward to this event. I signed up for Bondurant in Mid march a while ago too, so come April I should be able to get out of my own way :lol: , it might still be nice to have someone that can drive put in a couple laps too though

Matt

[George Manont]

.




Super Car.....

..... From Super Son...........

...........to Super Dad !


Congrats, Matt....You're THE Man







See my ride.... http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=24399




.

[MoparCar]

Matt,
What a great car and project. I love the outcome and the color!

It appears that you did not weld up the seams between the quarters and the deck lid filler panel at the rear window. Do you know what BOS used for sealer in this area? So many seams crack and I'd love to know their solution. I think I'm seeing that correctly in the finished pictures.

Thanks, Wes

[Matt@BOS]

Thanks for the kind words guys,

George, I remember seeing pictures of your Mustang from your original post. Very cool project!

Wes, You are correct, we left all the original seams. I'm not really a fan of the completely smoothed everything look. I'm not sure about the type/brand of seam sealer, but I'm going to be down there on Saturday so I'll ask for you.

Matt

[MoparCar]

Matt, thanks for checking---Wes

[phillym5]

During my month long "house shopping" visit here is So. Cal... I stopped by Best of Show today and saw this puppy in real life.

Not only is this Camaro sick in photo's... in person it looks just as good.... even better really.

Nice meeting the fellas running the shop. Cool group of dudes for sure. Thanks for the shop tour!!:cheers:

kalis.

[Matt@BOS]

During my month long "house shopping" visit here is So. Cal... I stopped by Best of Show today and saw this puppy in real life.

Not only is this Camaro sick in photo's... in person it looks just as good.... even better really.

Nice meeting the fellas running the shop. Cool group of dudes for sure. Thanks for the shop tour!!:cheers:

kalis.

Thinking of relocating the "Best Coast?"
The BOS crew are indeed a great group, especially when they hand out carne asada on Fridays, I hope you were there for that part.

Matt

[Matt@BOS]

Matt,

Do you know what BOS used for sealer in this area? So many seams crack and I'd love to know their solution. I think I'm seeing that correctly in the finished pictures.

Thanks, Wes

Wes, sorry to leave you hanging for a couple of weeks without getting back to you on the brand of seem sealer. I managed to remember to ask for you yesterday, surprising, right?. The particular brand that BOS uses is called Lord Fusor (or Fuzor, can't remember the spelling).

In general news, we are getting the car ready for Run to the Coast at El Toro. We're doing the final bits of fiberglass work on the inner fenders, then under-coating them. I'm going for an upgraded driver mod. My dad and I are headed out to Bondurant this week- should be fun. I'm not sure who is registered, but I hope to see a ton of you guys from this site at El Toro.

And lastly, because everyone loves pictures:
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0424.jpg

Matt

[BigRatCamaro]

Boy your dad is a lucky man to have a awesome car the color is great the carbon fiber is sweet just a great build:hail:

[DFRESH]

Wes, sorry to leave you hanging for a couple of weeks without getting back to you on the brand of seem sealer. I managed to remember to ask for you yesterday, surprising, right?. The particular brand that BOS uses is called Lord Fusor (or Fuzor, can't remember the spelling).

In general news, we are getting the car ready for Run to the Coast at El Toro. We're doing the final bits of fiberglass work on the inner fenders, then under-coating them. I'm going for an upgraded driver mod. My dad and I are headed out to Bondurant this week- should be fun. I'm not sure who is registered, but I hope to see a ton of you guys from this site at El Toro.

And lastly, because everyone loves pictures:
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0424.jpg

Matt


Such a great pic---outstanding car--quality = unbelieveable. Stoked you guys are going to run at El Toro---going to be a great time!

Doug

[nvr2fst]

Matt,
First purple camaro Ive seen and its just a bad a*! color. Yea I know Ive been saying that since you painted it. Enjoy the seat time!

[MoparCar]

Wes, sorry to leave you hanging for a couple of weeks without getting back to you on the brand of seem sealer. I managed to remember to ask for you yesterday, surprising, right?. The particular brand that BOS uses is called Lord Fusor (or Fuzor, can't remember the spelling

Matt

Thanks!!!
I appreciate you following up.

Wes

[Matt@BOS]

It seems like its been a while since the car has been done, but in reality, it hasn't been long, and Dick has been the only one putting shakedown miles on it. We noticed the inside of the front wheels hitting our upper control arms a little, so we're working to resolve that, but it's not a big deal.

Anyway, I hadn't gotten a chance to actually drive the damn thing... until today. Holy Hell! I just cruised around the block a bit, but it was just about everything I imagined, maybe more. My dad also took it out for the first time as well... I think it will have to grow on him a bit. Not quite what he was expecting, I think. As for me, I've spent so much time looking at these cars and even riding around in them over the last two years, my expectations were pretty high. If anything, I was worried it would feel too much like a new car, too refined, smooth, new carish. I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about. We (at least I) see cars like the Ring Brother's Razor, or Roadster shop's 'Vette among others, and I just assume from the looks that they would feel like new BMWs. I kinda just assumed the same with the Camaro we've been building. I couldn't have been more wrong. In retrospect, I'm not sure where my expectations came from. After, we've assembled a 40 year old car with new parts, capable of being put through their paces on a track. After being out at Bondurant last week driving C6s and then open wheel formula Mazdas, this car reminds me of a cross between the two, all packaged into an old muscle car body. Steering feel is really light, but very responsive, while the manual brakes, and cable-throttle are heavy but crisp, providing an intuitive feel with tons of feedback. It doesn't feel like a new car at all - it's so much more exciting than a new car. It reminds me a little of a race car, being very raw, but at the same time it has amazing street manners. The suspension is firm, but not hash. The engine can sound pretty nasty at times, but idles along and drives incredibly smooth at low speeds. It's just really easy to drive casually. At the same thime though, t always feels like it is ready to be unleashed, but only if you tell it to do so. If not it just putts along making all kinds of wonderful noises.

Well. I think I NEED more seat time. All I can say is that El Toro is going to be fun.

Matt

[GregWeld]

Sounds great Matt!

I will be excited to see this in person... I'm certain that the pictures don't do it justice vs the real thing.

So what is it that your Dad didn't "like" or what didn't meet his expectations?

I liked your descriptions btw -- I could understand exactly what you were feeling and hearing.

:thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Sorry -- just have to toss this in -- Isn't Bondurant a hoot!?

[Vegas69]

You're just now driving it?

[Matt@BOS]

Greg, my dad didn't like the really light steering feel, or the feel of the manual brakes. When he drove it he sort of complained that it took a long time to brake. In reality, I think he was only using, at most, an inch of pedal travel to make the car stop. I'm sure he'll get used to it. If not that's fine too. I can think of worse things than assuming his driving duties. Besides, about two months ago he started wondering what he was going to do after the Camaro was done. I think he's been eyeing GT40 kit cars online at work ever since :lol: .

And yes, Bondurant is an absolute blast. When they mentioned handling groups, I started thinking a 1 or 2 day pro-touring group meet would be cool. BTW, you aren't one of those guys that has taken every class there at least once, are you? Not that there is anything wrong with that. I'm trying to find an excuse to go back already.

Todd, we are just now driving it. I couldn't afford to drive it sooner and have to worry about engines falling apart and the like, while still writing checks for a couple other debugging issues :unibrow: Seriously though, I think Dick looks after this car like its one of his children. He probably didn't want to hand it over to either of its idiot owners before we passed Bondurant. He either woke up at 4am to take it to shows, or had it tucked away in the back of the shop under a cover, and behind cars, for the last couple months.

Matt

[Vegas69]

That's a good idea, especially if your not real handy. The race track will bring in some new variables that may need sorted. Look forward to seeing the car and you I guess. :lol:

[Ron in SoCal]

Sounds great Matt!

I will be excited to see this in person... I'm certain that the pictures don't do it justice vs the real thing.

So what is it that your Dad didn't "like" or what didn't meet his expectations?

I liked your descriptions btw -- I could understand exactly what you were feeling and hearing.

:thumbsup:

Greg -- I was down at BOS a couple of weeks ago. Dick gave me the the 'grand tour' of this peice of art. All I gotta say is, you're right pics do not do it justice - wait till you see it!!! It's got the best of everything, put together in one smooth flowing piece. Fit and finish is perfect, and now it's getting the shakedown. IMHO not a street fighter, nor was it made to be, but capable of killin' it on the track. If Matt ever decides to beat the crap out of it, watch out...:thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

So this past weekend we took the car out to Goodguys Del Mar. I wasn't sure what to expect, and to be honest wasn't sure I'd be able to spend three full days at a car show. Time went by quickly though, as I think I met half the regulars on this forum. If anything I was just looking forward to getting a little autocross time in, having had a whole two laps under my belt from El Toro the previous week. I think I only got four or five runs in during the weekend, but I got to ride shotgun with Kyle in the DSE '70 test car, and had the opportunity to drive with Mary shouting out orders. What a blast! While I'm still not comfortable with the car, and the way it drives, I learned a ton, and can't wait to get out there again. This whole track thing is starting to get addictive.

Also, while I went out there with the sole intention of taking home a couple cones still stuck to the car, we got a little (or big) something else to take home. Now, as evidenced below, Dick wouldn't be eyeing just any trophy over the girl handing out awards, so clearly this was special - how special? How about Del Mar's muscle machine of the year finalist! All I can say is that the guys at Best of Show really earned this. While it has been nothing but fun for me, being able to design the car, and drop by at my leisure, for the guys at the shop the car is still work, so I'm glad to see some recognition for their hard work. Even at the show Dick was busy working on the car, removing my cone rash :rofl:

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0438.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0448.jpg

Matt

[tones2SS]

That's awesome Matt. Looks great and does a great job running the auto-x. Very well deserved.:thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Sweet ====

A real nice car there Matt... and Dick is a hell of a good guy too!


:thumbsup:

[RECOVERY ROOM]

Saw it at Del Mar,Looked real nice,Love the color in the sun:thumbsup:

[Ron in SoCal]

...by the Gguys auto-x MC when Matt pulled up to the starting line:

MC: "Nice car man. How old are you?"

Matt: "22"

MC: "Dude, how does it feel to win the lottery?"

I didn't hear Matt's response...:lol:

[GHOSTDANCER]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :cheers:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

congradulations, car looks fantastic.


vince

[Matt@BOS]

Thanks for the pics. They make me look like I know what I'm doing.

As Flash911 stated, Chad (am I right?) the autocross mc was hilarious. All things considered I think he went pretty easy on me. He did say I set the record for taking out the most cones, but I figured anyone would have said that. Doug on the other hand got called out for having a peg-leg granny-mobile :lol:

Tracy, you should have said hi, I would have loved to talk interiors. I still have a couple ideas, and you're the resident expert.

[awr68]

Car looks great! And congrats on the award!!
Looks like this whole Pro-Touring thing might turn into something after all!

[Vegas69]

Congrats Matt, it's definitely worthy of the award. It's good to see you out there using it!

[Matt@BOS]

Ok, so I figured I'd update this thread because cars are never done. In the last couple months I've learned a lot, and then realized how much I still don't know. First of all, after going to Del Mar I took the car up to Goodguys Costa Mesa and beat on it around their little autocross, got my times down into the realm of mediocrity, and really had a chance to learn the car. The following month in June, my dad and I drove up to Pleasonton with Doug, Chris, Chad and the Stig, whom I think I'll just start referring to as the Socal "mousepack." Long story short we had a great time and I really discovered the weak points on the car.

Now, here is what I learned that might be helpful for everyone with projects using DSE's frame and Quadralink.

1. Don't rush to go to sema reverse the power steering lines on your rack, you will probably destroy its internals, then go about driving it, knowing something in the front suspension, possibly even having to do with the alignment is off, but not knowing what for months.

2. If you have DSE's subframe don't put a 255 tire on the front because you want a low ride height, and are worried about rubbing/scraping. You can't pull off a ton of u-turns with 255s, so just buy the bigger tires and steering stops, or "rack limiters." On the autocross, the car understeered so badly, and had so little front grip that I had a couple runs where I just collected cones. In fact, everyone that's driven the car has overestimated its ability to turn. This leads me to the next thing.

3. It is probably a good idea to invest in one of DSE's rear bars if you have single adjustable coilovers, and plan on even light track duty.

4. Leaky rear axles suck! My passenger side rear axle was leaking so we pulled it. The whole setup is from DSE and uses Moser axles. Out of the box the only seal in the entire system is a tiny band on the bearing. We replaced it... it continued to leak. After that I found the issue to be pretty common, as Moser's bearings have a reputation for being crap. According to the internet folks Moser's bearing don't hold up to heavy abuse and side loading very well. Now, the bearing seemed fine, so I went and got the inner housing seals, which everyone claims solves the problem. These seals work on Mosers housings, and just about every other 9'' ever made, except apparently DSE's. I'm still waiting for DSE to get back to me, which isn't like them, so I suppose I'll call again. Ultimately though, I'm at a bit of an impasse. There was someone on camaros.net suffering from the same issue, and complaining about DSE's housing being out of round, and having a difficult time getting them to fix it. It wouldn't altogether surprise me if this is the case, because virtually all housing have to be straightened after welding. So, should I just find the right axle seals, which I've been looking for for two weeks, and hope it solves the problem, or should I bite the bullet and go big, meaning I'd take just the car up to Currie in Anaheim and have them rework the housing and put tapered bearings in, which hold up much better to abuse.

Oh, and I've done a couple other things like put a clear bra on the car and add a set of hideous mirrors, which I sort of want to get rid of now. I'll post pictures of that stuff soon. In the meantime though, what should I do about the rear axle if I plan on attending track days/driving events?

Matt

[GregWeld]

Matt -

Please don't take any offense at what I'm going to say --- because it's not personal -- it's just the way it is...

If you can afford to drive a car as wonderful as yours is... then you should be able to just "go get it fixed and fixed right" -- regardless of what the issue is.

So call Currie and go get it "RIGHT"!

No bandaids - that's for school age boys.

:cheers: :woot:

[Vegas69]

Dump the roller bearings and go to a tapered. You'll need new axles but it's worth the trouble. Once you get the leak fixed, you'll find roller bearings aren't meant for roundy round racing. That was one of the huge contributors to my brake pad knock back. Do you experience a drop in pedal when you race? Sounds like you've had better luck than most.:thumbsup:

[DFRESH]

Mousepack member Doug R reporting in--LOL. Listen bro, you aren't the only one that found weaknesses with the road trip. Had to replace my waterpump--running the belts too tight--redid the radiator--it got a bit plugged up when I put the stopleak in it to see if it would help the water pump--and low and behold, my lr shock was blown--and the rr axle seal is bad. Do these things just hate us or what? I'd still do the trip all over again--no reservations. How else do you test these cars and get them road worthy? Trial and error. So I'm thinking there's another GG Autocross in Pleasanton at the end of Aug-----

Doug

[DOOM]

Matt....... I would have to agree with Greg on this one!!! Thanx for the info! I keep a little log one all the don't do's, just added yours.:cheers:

[Matt@BOS]

Mario, I'm glad you can use some of the knowledge I've gained to build a better car the first time. I really wish I'd taken more notes from this forum.

Todd, I honestly have no idea if I was having problems with the pad knock back. I want to say yes, because I feel like I've experienced the problem several times, but I was running with uncentered rear calipers that had gear oil on them too, and were probably near worthless out at Pleasanton.

Doug, I just checked the good-guys site, and it doesn't look like they're going to have an autocross in August. They do have another show in November with an autocross, but it's a week after sema. I know the Rat Pack could pull off the two events, but I'm not so sure about the mouse packs ability pull off such a feat.

Also, thanks all for the advice. Looks like I'm going to look for a band-aid fix until the car can go in for "surgery." Damnit Greg, for a guy with a bunch of tools that claims not to know very much, you have some good advice.

Hopefully the Best of Show gang can get the car on the road for this weekend, provided I can find the right parts. I haven't driven it in several weeks and I'm leaning towards paying cars and coffee a visit. Are you in Doug? Did you get Rodger's panel gap spray or those sweet rear prototype Baer brakes yet?

Matt

[steve671]

Awesome car and build.
Can you tell me what the backspacing on the front 18x9's are?
Thanks.

[Blake Foster]

BCA BR20 bearings
they are a taper bearing with an external seal, i am not the biggest fan of the way they retain the axle with the seal (new design aln all) but i guess we will see how well they work the other advantage of the desigtn is that the bearing now gets gear lube instead of being sealed

[Payton King]

a problem with the sealed bearings until we started driving the poo out of our cars.

Here is my unsolicitated opinion. Todd and I had a bad knockback problem with the sealed bearings. Part of the fix was ditching the Wilwood retainer and using the thicker Currie. Solved some of my problem. Todd went all out and changed to a tapered bearing. Willwood has since changed their retainer.

We are putting huge tires on the back of these cars now and generating a pretty good side load. I think the axle itself will still flex with the tapered bearing. You are asking the axle to carry the drive and the side load.

Enter the full floater. Most all track cars running a solid axle are running this style of rear. Speedway Engineering can make a full floater with their GN aluminum hubs, 1/2 inch wheel studs, 31 spline axles on 5 on 4.75 bolt pattern. You will be able to use your present wheels as the center section only comes 1 inch off the hub face and is the correct diameter. Only problem is the rotor adaptor is 8 bolts on a 7 inch spacing...12 inch rotors are as big as you can run.

Make a custom rotor adaptor/hat to run the 13 inch rotor for the 12 bolt 8.75 circle and you are golden.

This is going to be my route anyway...thought I would pass the info along

[Vegas69]

I agree the floater is the cats meow. Looks like BMR has a product and I know others are working on it as well. I've been kicking around installing a floating caliper to get me by.

[Cris@JCG]

Curious...What posi units are you running? I assume you guys are running 9" Fords..



a problem with the sealed bearings until we started driving the poo out of our cars.

Here is my unsolicitated opinion. Todd and I had a bad knockback problem with the sealed bearings. Part of the fix was ditching the Wilwood retainer and using the thicker Currie. Solved some of my problem. Todd went all out and changed to a tapered bearing. Willwood has since changed their retainer.

We are putting huge tires on the back of these cars now and generating a pretty good side load. I think the axle itself will still flex with the tapered bearing. You are asking the axle to carry the drive and the side load.

Enter the full floater. Most all track cars running a solid axle are running this style of rear. Speedway Engineering can make a full floater with their GN aluminum hubs, 1/2 inch wheel studs, 31 spline axles on 5 on 4.75 bolt pattern. You will be able to use your present wheels as the center section only comes 1 inch off the hub face and is the correct diameter. Only problem is the rotor adaptor is 8 bolts on a 7 inch spacing...12 inch rotors are as big as you can run.

Make a custom rotor adaptor/hat to run the 13 inch rotor for the 12 bolt 8.75 circle and you are golden.

This is going to be my route anyway...thought I would pass the info along

I agree the floater is the cats meow. Looks like BMR has a product and I know others are working on it as well. I've been kicking around installing a floating caliper to get me by.

[phillym5]

Matt...

I was just at Best of Show the other day I had them do some color sanding on my Camaro... They did a great job.

I too was having an axle leak for a while. (6k miles)... I replaced the seal a couple times... it would help a little. A couple weeks ago i blew apart my spider gears..haha. Since putting the rear end back together.. the axle hasn't leaked yet. (maybe 250 miles).. but now i have a mystery "clank" that will happen every now and then in the diff.

I saw your camaro on the rack.. it looked damn good.
Are you wanting to hit the Carlsbad cars and coffee?? I now live here... so we should link up sometime.

josh.

[GregWeld]

Matt...

I was just at Best of Show the other day I had them do some color sanding on my Camaro... They did a great job.

I too was having an axle leak for a while. (6k miles)... I replaced the seal a couple times... it would help a little. A couple weeks ago i blew apart my spider gears..haha. Since putting the rear end back together.. the axle hasn't leaked yet. (maybe 250 miles).. but now i have a mystery "clank" that will happen every now and then in the diff.

I saw your camaro on the rack.. it looked damn good.
Are you wanting to hit the Carlsbad cars and coffee?? I now live here... so we should link up sometime.

josh.


The good news for you Josh -- is that you can leave a dead car on the road and skate your way home... :rofl: :woot:

[phillym5]

The good news for you Josh -- is that you can leave a dead car on the road and skate your way home... :rofl: :woot:

You know it.... thats what pays for this hobby of mine! :lol:

[Matt@BOS]

So I called DSE today, and they couldn't really give me a good solution. They didn't even know of an inner seal for the housing they use. We also left a message with Kyle, but he's busy in Columbus. Hopefully he knows something, because as far as I can tell the housing doesn't even have a provision for a seal other than the tiny o ring that fits on the bearing, which just sounds like it would be prone to failure, and would seem uncharacteristic of DSE which almost over engineers everything. In any case, we're just going to throw it back together with some silicone and hope to keep the leaking to a minimum since I checked just about every seal ever made and couldn't find one built to the required specs. :willy:

Josh, I'd be down to go to the Carlsbad meet, but I think that's the last sat. or sun. of the month...not sure though. I've also been considering making the drive to Cars and Coffee in Irvine this Saturday if it isn't raining. Would you be interested in going?

also, what kind of axles do you have, are they Moser's by chance?

Matt

[Vegas69]

My guess is the oring isn't the problem. The axle grease is getting through the bearing itself. I just had this very discussion with Tobin at Kore3 yesterday. With no internal oil seal, it's not wonder it leaks. I bet the DSE test cars have TAPERED bearings. haha
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=10129&page=85&highlight=tapered+bearing

[Payton King]

mine has inner seals. also know you can run a seal right off the pumpkin. they do this on the floaters to keep the diff fluid from washing the outer bearings

[Matt@BOS]

My guess is the oring isn't the problem. The axle grease is getting through the bearing itself. I just had this very discussion with Tobin at Kore3 yesterday. With no internal oil seal, it's not wonder it leaks. I bet the DSE test cars have TAPERED bearings. haha
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=10129&page=85&highlight=tapered+bearing

So Todd, how are you liking the tapered bearings, and your bearings aren't sealed are they? BTW I'm really hoping Kyle calls us back when the chaos of Columbus subsides. I feel like they know things we don't, seeing as how they beat on their cars almost every other week. Whether or their solution involves magic is the big question.

Now, speaking of full floaters, are they overkill for most of our cars? I don't know too much about them though, so if anyone feels like throwing up a good link for my education, it would be much appreciated.

Anyway, think I'm off to cars and coffee tomorrow, unless I sleep in. Maybe I can find out if the 275 tires we threw on today will rub/scrape at all. Hope the panel gap critics won't be there to look at my Carbon fiber hood in all of its rippled glory.

Matt

[Vegas69]

Leak free so far. All tapered bearings are lubricated by the rear end grease. I can tell you this, when I had roller bearings AND inner seals I had a inner seal failure. It leaked until I replaced the inner seal.

[Matt@BOS]

Little update: Kyle called Dick back today. Basically, what Kyle told Dick was that DSE has chosen to use Moser's Torino Big Bearings because after trying just about everything, they found all of the setups, (short of anything like a full floater), to have flaws. However, Kyle seems to think that Moser's Torino Big Bearing setup is simple to maintain and reliably run, making it the least of the evils. He told Dick that before track days they pull the rear brakes on their test cars and put silicone around the bearings. It may seem like a bit of a band-aid solution, but they seem to think that all things considered, and compared to other options, the Torino bearings are the best, or least bad.

Dick didn't ask Kyle about tapered bearings though, and I'd like to get his opinion at some point. For now, I think I'm going to wait for Todd to beat the piss out of his car a little more and see how his setup holds up.

Matt

[Cris@JCG]

Have Dick call me.. I would like for him to check something out..


Little update: Kyle called Dick back today. Basically, what Kyle told Dick was that DSE has chosen to use Moser's Torino Big Bearings because after trying just about everything, they found all of the setups, (short of anything like a full floater), to have flaws. However, Kyle seems to think that Moser's Torino Big Bearing setup is simple to maintain and reliably run, making it the least of the evils. He told Dick that before track days they pull the rear brakes on their test cars and put silicone around the bearings. It may seem like a bit of a band-aid solution, but they seem to think that all things considered, and compared to other options, the Torino bearings are the best, or least bad.

Dick didn't ask Kyle about tapered bearings though, and I'd like to get his opinion at some point. For now, I think I'm going to wait for Todd to beat the piss out of his car a little more and see how his setup holds up.

Matt

[phillym5]

Little update: Kyle called Dick back today. Basically, what Kyle told Dick was that DSE has chosen to use Moser's Torino Big Bearings because after trying just about everything, they found all of the setups, (short of anything like a full floater), to have flaws. However, Kyle seems to think that Moser's Torino Big Bearing setup is simple to maintain and reliably run, making it the least of the evils. He told Dick that before track days they pull the rear brakes on their test cars and put silicone around the bearings. It may seem like a bit of a band-aid solution, but they seem to think that all things considered, and compared to other options, the Torino bearings are the best, or least bad.

Dick didn't ask Kyle about tapered bearings though, and I'd like to get his opinion at some point. For now, I think I'm going to wait for Todd to beat the piss out of his car a little more and see how his setup holds up.

Matt


Did you end up going to cars and coffee? If so... how was it?

[Cris@JCG]

I want to know what posi unit is being using in the car.. Detroit Locker.. TrueTrac.. ???


Have Dick call me.. I would like for him to check something out..

[Steve1968LS2]

I want to know what posi unit is being using in the car.. Detroit Locker.. TrueTrac.. ???


$20 says it's a Detroit Tru-Trac...

The "problem" is when autocrossing these cars huge side loads are put on the rear bearings.. loads they weren't designed to take. So I can see how they would start to seep.

Every solution is going to have it's own unique problem.. well, except a floater but that has a cash element..

[Cris@JCG]

I just got off the phone with Larry C from Pro-Touring.com.. He was having serious issues with piston knock back on his rear brakes & took his car over to Wilwood to see if the issue could be fixed.. He has a 12 bolt with Torino ends & using a Detroit Truetrac.. Wilwood did eveything they could do to work out the end play out of the axles.. but was still having piston knock back.. One thing that was discovered was that when the car was put up in the air & the load was taken off the wheels, it would hang the tires as if something was lose.. Put the rear on load & it would tilt the wheels in..

I just looked up on how a Detroit TrueTrac unit works.. worm gears is how this unit works.. They do not machine a bore to locate the gears that go into the splined portion of the axle.. If the axle is not located on the splined portion of the posi unit it is going to create alot of movement that can hurt the outer bearing & seals on the axle end..

Now take a look @ a Detroit Locker with spider gears & clutch pack.. the spider gears that go on the splinded portion of the axle is bore machined & located on the posi unit that keeps the axle centered on the axle tube..



$20 says it's a Detroit Tru-Trac...

The "problem" is when autocrossing these cars huge side loads are put on the rear bearings.. loads they weren't designed to take. So I can see how they would start to seep.

Every solution is going to have it's own unique problem.. well, except a floater but that has a cash element..

[Cris@JCG]

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/jcgrestoration/ct_125986.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/jcgrestoration/ct_126000.jpg

I just got off the phone with Larry C from Pro-Touring.com.. He was having serious issues with piston knock back on his rear brakes & took his car over to Wilwood to see if the issue could be fixed.. He has a 12 bolt with Torino ends & using a Detroit Truetrac.. Wilwood did eveything they could do to work out the end play out of the axles.. but was still having piston knock back.. One thing that was discovered was that when the car was put up in the air & the load was taken off the wheels, it would hang the tires as if something was lose.. Put the rear on load & it would tilt the wheels in..

I just looked up on how a Detroit TrueTrac unit works.. worm gears is how this unit works.. They do not machine a bore to locate the gears that go into the splined portion of the axle.. If the axle is not located on the splined portion of the posi unit it is going to create alot of movement that can hurt the outer bearing & seals on the axle end..

Now take a look @ a Detroit Locker with spider gears & clutch pack.. the spider gears that go on the splinded portion of the axle is bore machined & located on the posi unit that keeps the axle cented on the axle tube..

[The WidowMaker]

currie set my 12 bolt up with 9" ends and the U356L bearings. im thinking these are the set 20 tapered roller bearings. is that correct, and if so, any need for me to worry? are there a few different style tapered bearings?

i hate reading informational threads after ive already spent the money..........

[phillym5]

Matt...

What carpet did you go with on your car?

[Vegas69]

Cris, I'm not following you. From the exploded view the ture trac does have a smooth bore for the axles to slide into then the splines.

[Payton King]

locker in his. Makes all sorts of noise. I would not put one in a street car.

[Cris@JCG]

Information will always vary.. Every person or car will always have different issues or opinion on which product to use..

currie set my 12 bolt up with 9" ends and the U356L bearings. im thinking these are the set 20 tapered roller bearings. is that correct, and if so, any need for me to worry? are there a few different style tapered bearings?

i hate reading informational threads after ive already spent the money..........

Todd, After I posted the pic on the TrueTrac I noticed the it has a shaft that located on the out board of posit unit, but look @ the inboard towards the center of the unit.. flat surface which can create movement & transfer it to the axle bearing on housing end.. If you have a shaft that measures about 30 inches long & want it to run concentric.. It needs to be supported frim on both ends..

I am just looking & reseaching right now.. not saying that TrueTrac is problem..

Cris, I'm not following you. From the exploded view the ture trac does have a smooth bore for the axles to slide into then the splines.

Lockers do make alot of noise.. The exploded view I posted is a Limited slip not a locker..

locker in his. Makes all sorts of noise. I would not put one in a street car.

[Matt@BOS]

Ok, someone owes Steve $20 because it is a Truetrac. Cris, do you still want Dick to give you a call today?

Now, to answer a couple questions... First, I think someone asked what offset the 18x9s are. I'm not 100 percent sure, so you would have to contact Jon at Driverzinc. but I believe they have a 5.625 backspace, at least I think that is what DSE recommends with their subframe. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Josh, I did drive up to Cars and Coffee Saturday morning. If you like Porsches then you missed out. They coordinated a big meet and had their own section. There was everything from a 356 to a Carrera GT (which sounds insane) and GT3 RS. As a heads up this Thursday is the Encinitas cruise along the 101, and there is some show on Satuday in Carlsbad that I've been told I have to sign up for by the guys at the shop. Oh and the carpet is Mercedes.

Matt

[Cris@JCG]

Just got off the phone with Dick.. I will be assembling a rear end like the one you have in your car today to get Dick some info..


Ok, someone owes Steve $20 because it is a Truetrac. Cris, do you still want Dick to give you a call today?

Now, to answer a couple questions... First, I think someone asked what offset the 18x9s are. I'm not 100 percent sure, so you would have to contact Jon at Driverzinc. but I believe they have a 5.625 backspace, at least I think that is what DSE recommends with their subframe. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Josh, I did drive up to Cars and Coffee Saturday morning. If you like Porsches then you missed out. They coordinated a big meet and had their own section. There was everything from a 356 to a Carrera GT (which sounds insane) and GT3 RS. As a heads up this Thursday is the Encinitas cruise along the 101, and there is some show on Satuday in Carlsbad that I've been told I have to sign up for by the guys at the shop. Oh and the carpet is Mercedes.

Matt

[Chicken Louie]

Cris

Just to clarify but the true-trac with the gears is a better system?? The problem with the old locker and the clutches is the slippage and noise. I believe that the true-trac or auburn is a better set up than the locker for road race and if your dragging use the full spool locker?

This is great info and should be put in a new thread.

[SBDave]

I just put a Detroit TrueTrac in my Cuda, which was recommended to me over other clutch style posi units for road racing.

"TrueTrac differentials are unique in that they increase traction but do not affect steering or wear out prematurely; these problems are common with limited-slip differentials that use clutch plates and springs.
TrueTrac performs like a conventional differential, until there is a loss of traction. Only then will the power transfer occer - when it is needed."
(Just happened to have the TrueTrac owners manual on my desk.)

Cris, are you saying the splined side gear which the axles slip into in the diff has movement? It seems to me it would take a lot of movement of that gear to create such angles at the tire (since they are so far from each other, and they should be located at the ends by a bearing). Also, in the exploded view of the TrueTrac it looks to me like it does have shoulders to locate the side gear. I also just looked at a similar helical torsion diff at my work and the side gears are also located by a shoulder.

I would think the outer axle bearings and how the axles are retained would be more of a concern. Please let me know what the results are, I like this stuff!

-Dave

[DFRESH]

Geez, I just purchased a locker for mine (Detroit Locker 35 spline--not a True Trak). After doing some research--on issues like these, I was convinced it was the best way to go. I know they make some noise, but only when backing in and out of the driveway--that doesn't bother me. I didn't want to take a chance on the thing having a knock back issue with the new rear setup going in the car---many have suspected what's being played out here---will keep watching as I will be ready for axles and the bearings in the next couple of weeks. Thanks for the thread Matt.

Doug

[DFRESH]

locker in his. Makes all sorts of noise. I would not put one in a street car.

Payton, when does it make the noise? Like every corner?

Doug

[Vegas69]

Geez, I just purchased a locker for mine (Detroit Locker 35 spline--not a True Trak). After doing some research--on issues like these, I was convinced it was the best way to go. I know they make some noise, but only when backing in and out of the driveway--that doesn't bother me. I didn't want to take a chance on the thing having a knock back issue with the new rear setup going in the car---many have suspected what's being played out here---will keep watching as I will be ready for axles and the bearings in the next couple of weeks. Thanks for the thread Matt.

Doug

Thanks for sharing...:willy:

[DFRESH]

Thanks for sharing...:willy:

What--you've never hijacked a thread? I just looked up the definition of "Thread Hijacker" and there was a picture of you. This just begs some Greg input. Sorry Matt--will be back on track after this post. :lol:

Doug

[Matt@BOS]

What--you've never hijacked a thread? I just looked up the definition of "Thread Hijacker" and there was a picture of you. This just begs some Greg input. Sorry Matt--will be back on track after this post. :lol:

Doug

Meh... I don't really care if this thread has turned into a discussion on bearings axles and differentials. I'm just here for the education, and to see what Greg will come up with to say next.

Now to get back on topic, and maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here because we haven't sorted the rear axle thing out yet, but my next issue to address will be front springs. I never noticed too much until I put the bigger tires on, but the front has settled some more after driving during the past couple of months. It is really low now, maybe a third of an inch lower than when we "finished" it in December. It's getting so low it's going to look like Doug's car if things keep up. I think it rubs on the inner fenders a bit on hard cornering. Since we rolled the front wheel well lips I might try an 1/8" spacer. I might also consider getting slightly longer springs because the ones we've got now are pretty compressed.

Ok, with that said, commence the conversation about Truetracs vs. Detroit Lockers. Oh, and I still want to hear from people running tapered bearings!

Matt

[Vegas69]

I was serious, I've been fighting this since day one. You would think a buddy ol pal would give a guy a call with inside info. I'm not sold on it being the true trac but I'm interested to know what DSE, Finch, Rupp, etc run since I've never heard any of them complain about knockback issues. If they have lockers or anyting else, I'm on board.

[GregWeld]

I was serious, I've been fighting this since day one. You would think a buddy ol pal would give a guy a call with inside info. I'm not sold on it being the true trac but I'm interested to know what DSE, Finch, Rupp, etc run since I've never heard any of them complain about knockback issues. If they have lockers or anyting else, I'm on board.

They just like to watch you suffer....


REAL LOCKERS -- SUCK FOR THE STREET. But so does leaking seals and pad knockers...

[Vegas69]

Just called DSE, they run True Trac's in both test cars. Hmmmmm

[Cris@JCG]

I know.. I talked to them yesterday..

I have a Truetrac unit I will be diassembling to day..

[Payton King]

do not like a locker for what I am doing. If I had a drag car that I ran on the street...then yes. I find a locker to be very loud when it is unlocked around an corner and almost sounds like it is breaking on low speed parking. Also when you get on the power coming out of a corner and it locks the car will waggle...which I find a little unsettling at speed. This is all personal preference as I know others it does not bother.

The true tracs have very smooth operation and do not have the clutch problems of the conventional posi units. I love the one that I am running.

I think it was mentioned in another thread about the load being generated on the axles, especially with a high offset wheel (the ones with the big lips that look so cool)

On a side note, I am running the big sealed bearings from Moser and mine have not leaked. Yes I do have knockback. As I stated earlier, I am going to a floater.

[Vegas69]

DSE runs boosters on both cars I believe. Meaning they probably have no problem covering it up with power brakes. 1 1/8 master

Let's get back to Matt's problem. He doesn't neccesarily have a knockback problem. He has a leak. I still feel the fluid gets through the bearing itself or a portion. Sealed bearings aren't meant to be submerged in oil. They should in theory be able to withstand it but I'm not so sure. I'm interested to see what Cris has cooking.

[68protouring454]

if your running sealed bearings then just buy some inner seals, that you install when the 3rd member is pulled.

[Payton King]

an oil seal they use on circle track cars that installs near the center section to keep the oil from roping down the axle or running down the tube. Use that coupled with the seal that is suppose to be behind the bearing and you should be good.

Have you checked the housing for straightness in a jig?

[Matt@BOS]

DSE runs boosters on both cars I believe. Meaning they probably have no problem covering it up with power brakes. 1 1/8 master

Let's get back to Matt's problem. He doesn't neccesarily have a knockback problem. He has a leak. I still feel the fluid gets through the bearing itself or a portion. Sealed bearings aren't meant to be submerged in oil. They should in theory be able to withstand it but I'm not so sure. I'm interested to see what Cris has cooking.

Well actually... Right now I have a knockback issue and not a leak. It's pretty bad I even notice it on the street.

Ok, about the sealed bearing, according to Kyle, it will leak oil if you autocross it just because so much load is put on that area. With that amount of stress, something is going to deform a bit and let oil through. I do find it interesting though that it continues to leak afterwards under normal driving. Maybe the housing wasn't straightened after it was welded, but I doubt it.

Matt

[Vegas69]

One thing to remember is not everyone is forth coming with their problems. I shouldn't assume people don't have the problem. I can't imagine that folks wouldn't want to share their problems with the world.:D I can't believe DSE silicones in their axles between events. No way I would put up with that crap! Matt, what master cyinder and is there any booster or hydraboost?

[g356gear]

Can we clarify what "knockback" actually is or feels like?

[Matt@BOS]

I've got manual brakes, a Wilwood 7/8" bore master cylinder to be precise.

Todd, I'm a bit surprised they just use silicone too. I guess for them it is the best solution for a street car. Since they race what they sell, and they predominantly sell to people who will almost never drive on the track, their setup makes sense. There would be no point in running a full floater on their cars and then selling the Torino Bearing 9" setup to the public. I do wish they sold a setup that was overkill though, I know I would buy it.

As for what knock back is, I think Greg might have posted a good link explaining it somewhere. Basically, under hard side loading, going around turns, there is enough stress on the bearings, and axle components that everything moves a bit causing deflection. What this does to the rotors could be compared to an outside wheel on an old car gaining positive camber around a turn. In other words the rotor flexes and is no longer perfectly parallel to the brake caliper, thus pushing the pads and pistons back. Then, when you need to brake and you step on the pedal, you get a really light feeling i.e. the pedal might fall halfway to the floor, or feel like it isn't bled properly. If you tap the brakes once and push the pistons back in place everything will feel normal again. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, power boosters, like what DSE runs, will cut down on the amount of noticeable knock back feel, but doesn't address or cure the problem. On manual brakes like a bunch of us are running it is very noticeable. I've got a 7/8" Wilwood manual setup, and it does not inspire confidence before you tap the brakes up.

Here is a picture of one of our car's rear rotors. I think the reason I never noticed bad knockback sooner was because the rear calipers weren't evenly spaced and whenever I'd go around a hard turn, the rotors would grind against the retaining pins between the padlets on the C6 Z06 brakes. Because of this knockback was limited, and less apparent. The downside though, was that my rear brakes weren't ever working 100 percent.

You can see the ring caused by the deflection, where the rotors ground against the retaining pins:
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0651.jpg

Matt

[Ron in SoCal]

Can we clarify what "knockback" actually is or feels like?

What it is....

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_knockback.shtml

[68protouring454]

knock back is generally only seen on radial mount calipers or lug mount. floating calipers like c5 etc will never get knockback because they float. radial mounts are generally run in race applications where larger/better bearings are used as well as full floaters in the rear.

[Vegas69]

That's exactly why I may still install a C5 caliper out back until someone comes up with a economical solution.

Matt, hope to have time to work on mine this weekend and will give you my thoughts on the 1" master cylinder with no residual pressure.:unibrow:

[68protouring454]

my 69 has 4 piston alcons up front with 9012 hawk pads and single piston c5 rears on a 13 inch rotor in the rear with hp plus pads. never got any brake fade, at any track, nhms,watkins glen,njmp,gingerman etc and the car is no slouch

[DFRESH]

So Todd, why is it that a power assisted setup knocks down this issue---greater initial hit on the first pump of the brake pedal? It's moving the pads further out (and away) from the calipers with the first hit?

Doug

[Matt@BOS]

Doug, I think the power booster reduces the apparent feel of knockback because it has a larger bore, meaning that less fluid is displaced as pads/pistons get pushed around.

Matt

[Vegas69]

Larger bore master cylinder means more fluid volume to the calipers with less pedal stroke. I got my 1" master back on tonight. All I need to do is bleed all four corners and go for a ride. Hang in there a few days.