Dirt Missile rebuild begins

[GregWeld]

So after Thanksgiving - I went up to get the Secret Sauced and Optimized $200,000 “Track Warrior” so I could haul it over to SpeedTech in St. George, Utah

Within a minute of lifting the hood off.... The guys start seeing the mess they have to deal with.

The front brake line had about 2 or 3 more laps before it was cut thru - they’re rubbing on the inside of the wheels because they’re in a bad location.

Almost all the Plumbing is wrong. We’ll discuss this in more detail later.

PCV vent isn’t used with a dry sump - but that’s what Sutton and crew did

Wiring will be redone....it looks like kindergarten class....

The 2000* header coating is burnt completely off a couple cylinders

The power steering pump (KRC) is toast - and the fluid looks like a milkshake. There is NO P/S cooler.

The steering stops apparently are the shocks

The rear axle bearings add camber when loaded

The serpentine belt system is out of alignment - the belt has ground all the black anodizing off the water pump pulley - and is slipping out over the crank pulley.

So — worse than imagined - and I had imagined pretty pee poor workmanship.

Mind you - they’ve only had the car a couple days - so this is just the beginning.

For those of you still thinking Sutton is “the man” — good luck with that.

[DBasher]

I don’t understand the rear bearings adding camber...is the id or od of the bearing incorrect or in 15 laps has something failed?

Is this an assessment of how bad or a rebuild regardless? Either way I’m glad this is at a reputable shop with guys that know how things work. I’ll be curious to see what happens with the suspension with everything that’s been learned in the last few months...lower control arms design, 3 link ****ery, craftsmanship.

Hopefully the ****show can turn into something enjoyable on track.
:thumbsup:

[gofastwclass]

Wow, sorry to hear that Greg.
Sounds like the SpeedTech guys are experienced enough to get it fixed properly.

I'm in for part two of this saga.

[GregWeld]

I don’t understand the rear bearings adding camber...is the id or od of the bearing incorrect or in 15 laps has something failed?

Is this an assessment of how bad or a rebuild regardless? Either way I’m glad this is at a reputable shop with guys that know how things work. I’ll be curious to see what happens with the suspension with everything that’s been learned in the last few months...lower control arms design, 3 link ****ery, craftsmanship.

Hopefully the ****show can turn into something enjoyable on track.
:thumbsup:

Car uses a FULL FLOATER rear end —- my guess is —- just one more part that neither Sutton nor the “assemblers” knew anything about..... So my guess is —- wrong assembly or wrong spec (suttonized dog crap)..... But I haven’t asked all these details yet — to me — it’s not important what was wrong (everything) — it’s only important that SPEEDTECHS guys know what they’re doing and are even good enough to spot the issues to begin with..... Something Sutton nor the dickheads were.

HE was brilliant and knew everything about every aspect of every part ever made —— just ask him —— well - never mind — he told you whether you wanted to hear it or not. LOL

[Ketzer]

Still optimistic about being able to salvage most of whats there GW...?

That's a brave group of guys willing to step into something with so many issues.


Jeff-

[Peter McMahon]

Whew, this will be interesting

[gofastwclass]

to me — it’s not important what was wrong (everything) — it’s only important that SPEEDTECHS guys know what they’re doing and are even good enough to spot the issues to begin with.

Greg, you always amaze me with your positive attitude in times of... extreme adversity. I try to maintain the same attitude myself and I really respect that trait in a person.

:thankyou:


If SpeedTech's work is remotely as good as their pictures are (sadly I've never knowingly seen one of their builds in person) you are in great hands. ...now if they would just hurry up and post up some destruction / rebuild pictures so those playing at home can learn how to build a proper car. :D

[Che70velle]

Greg, I’ts hurtful to find out that it’s worse than you thought. Honestly, I thought that the car was already over there. As you already know, it’s in good hands now, and I’m looking forward to seeing progress being made. Hopefully come spring you’ll have a capable, race ready rocket.

[WSSix]

Good deal, Greg. I'm glad it's in good hands with Blake and his crew. St George should be closer to you now too, correct? Keep us posted.

[syborg tt]

Holy crap I can’t believe it’s that bad. That’s just nuts and how the hell did he Scan so many people.

I’ll be the first one to say Hay, I build my cars with a army of people that know what there doing and if I don’t know what I’m doing I don’t try to convince myself or god forbid someone else that I do.

Till this day I still lean on my car friends for help when I get stumped or just go way off in never never land with my crazy ideas.

I hoping you can get this car back to being a race-car as you have a ton of nice parts that just need an intelligent group of guys to get it running and I’m confident the guys at speed tech are the guys.


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[GregWeld]

Still optimistic about being able to salvage most of whats there GW...?

That's a brave group of guys willing to step into something with so many issues.


Jeff-

Yeah Jeff —- I think the basic “bones” are okay — thank god a real shop did the cage work.... We’ll look at every weld on the chassis part (done by Suttons buddy - Randy)...... and all the gusseting etc will be checked...... The transmission is okay..... Motor goes to Kurt Urban for rebuild — wiring will be redone — they used the nastiest cheapest stiffest crap you could find at O’Reilly’s..... rather than quality automotive stuff.... Rear suspension will (MAYBE) be converted to a simple 3 link..... They’ll look to see if we can save any of the front.... and have it be SAFE and effective.... The body will be the LAST thing on the list.... and that will be a “just attempt to clean it up a little - rip off the crap wrap - and scuff it and shoot it white with blue stripes..... cheap and race car dirty...... We’ve talked about laying the radiator over and building some venting thru the hood.... and taking the oil cooler OUT of the radiator (plug it off) and adding a real actual oil cooler..... So mostly all simple little fixes — but it’s all TIME and $$$$...... and a complete and utter waste of both of those commodities. Thank you dickhead “mister race car” —- The more we find the madder I get.....

[GregWeld]

Greg, you always amaze me with your positive attitude in times of... extreme adversity. I try to maintain the same attitude myself and I really respect that trait in a person.

:thankyou:

Thanks for the kind words!


If SpeedTech's work is remotely as good as their pictures are (sadly I've never knowingly seen one of their builds in person) you are in great hands. ...now if they would just hurry up and post up some destruction / rebuild pictures so those playing at home can learn how to build a proper car. :D

Lucky for me Blake and Roger and Jay have been friends for a long time..... and they DO build sweet cars!! And build sweet subframes and suspension parts..... and Blake is a drag racer — Jay is a road racer.... so they know what they’re doing and have some great guys in the shop.

While I’ve never had them build a car for me — I originally asked Sutton to use them to build this car - as they were one of the listed builders in the catalog — but like EVERYTHING Sutton ever did — that was all just smoke and mirrors — since he’d never really actually discussed with them what’s what.... and when the time came — they were very upfront about “can’t build it for that” and “can’t build it in that timeframe”. Well — IMHO — Sutton NEVER intended for anyone to build his crap except his one buddy (Randy)..... and Randy had NEVER built a car like this...... or anything even close. It shows. LOL


I can assure you that if they (SpeedTech) had built the car — we wouldn’t have these issues.... because they would have never built such junk. They’d have either refused to build it “his way” — or we would have had behind the scenes discussions about what it was that “I” wanted etc. Water under the bridge now.....

[GregWeld]

Whew, this will be interesting


LOL Peter! It’s been “interesting” since the POS was “finished”..... Interesting in the sense that this is a showcase for Suttons BS / Lying / Lack of knowledge / And his Hucksterism at it’s finest!!


Good deal, Greg. I'm glad it's in good hands with Blake and his crew. St George should be closer to you now too, correct? Keep us posted.


Yes St George is about a 6 hour drive — or a short flight!

[will69camaro]

Hoping for the best with the rebuild. Sorry for the problems and lesson learned the very hard way as has been discussed. I hope others learn from it and can avoid him and be more vocal about others.

[GregWeld]

SpeedTech guys are “on the job”..... It WILL take a bit to fix the Sutton built pile of crap.....


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[GregWeld]

Nice expensive Suttonized motor is sauced..... in other words —- a complete POS....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181203/a3f288012757d80efbe5360d60d82457.jpg


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[GregWeld]

How about the 2000* Header coating —- also Optimized and Secret Sauced JUNK.... On top of a couple tubes need to be whacked so we can actually change plugs...... you know — secret stuff that just needs to be done on occasion.



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[214Chevy]

Those theaders look just like plain ol rattle can.

[GregWeld]

Those theaders look just like plain ol rattle can.

Ya don’t say!!! LOL

Sutton “Mister I won every race I ever entered” — wouldn’t cheat and lie would he????

[Stuart Adams]

Those headers say a ton...

[raustinss]

Greg I know you're content over her but the folks over on pt.com have been informed and are discussing mister special sauce himself . So rest easily knowing the word is out and everyone is aware .. special sauce is right up there with his nascar training program lmfao ..what a twat

[1965_SS]

Hey Greg, did you ever get to drive it at all before you dropped it off at Speedtech?


It's in good hands over there, as you already know!! Can't wait to see the Missile Reborn.

[JKnight]

Those theaders look just like plain ol rattle can.

When I was 16...I saved up for a new set of headers but couldn’t afford the fancy ceramic coating. Ordered up an Eastwood coating kit, cleaned the black paint off, meticulously prepped the bare metal and sprayed on a rattle can of their high temp header coating. Man did it look awesome!! Then within 10 miles, looked just like the ones Greg pictured. I was devastated!!!

So yeah, looks EXACTLY like a 16 year old-applied rattle can job, lol

[TheJDMan]

Greg,

I have been distracted by other issues for several months and just checked back in here. So sorry to hear all this lord knows you don't need the stress. The interesting thing is I was at VIR a couple of months ago and we were bench racing in the pits when Ron's name came up. One of the guys said he had heard some negative things but did not elaborate. I have spent two hours reading both threads and all I can say is WOW. I'm glad to see the car at Speedtech!



If you don't mind me asking, can you tell me more about your transmission. I really hate the Tremec shifter on my T56 Magnum and I'm considering installing one of the S1 sequential shifters. They say the S1 sequential can be installed on a stock T56 Mag with no mods. Just curious about your T56 and how it works.


https://www.s1sequential.com/product/sequential-shifter-t56-magnum/?currency=USD

[GregWeld]

Hey Greg, did you ever get to drive it at all before you dropped it off at Speedtech?


It's in good hands over there, as you already know!! Can't wait to see the Missile Reborn.

I drove it around the block at their shop before loading it up —- guess what — it had to be pushed back to the shop because the throttle (DBW) wires were melted thru.......

I have not driven it at the track — because it was too much of a mess.... and all they did was thrash on it....

[GregWeld]

Greg,

I have been distracted by other issues for several months and just checked back in here. So sorry to hear all this lord knows you don't need the stress. The interesting thing is I was at VIR a couple of months ago and we were bench racing in the pits when Ron's name came up. One of the guys said he had heard some negative things but did not elaborate. I have spent two hours reading both threads and all I can say is WOW. I'm glad to see the car at Speedtech!



If you don't mind me asking, can you tell me more about your transmission. I really hate the Tremec shifter on my T56 Magnum and I'm considering installing one of the S1 sequential shifters. They say the S1 sequential can be installed on a stock T56 Mag with no mods. Just curious about your T56 and how it works.


https://www.s1sequential.com/product/sequential-shifter-t56-magnum/?currency=USD



I’ve seen video of that shifter and it appears to work great! My transmission is an actual sequential transmission — it just uses a T56 case. These conversion trannys are about $20,000 plus or minus depending on whether or not you already have a case to use etc (I did not).

The only part of the car that worked - and funny - wanting a sequential was what started the whole build.

[GregWeld]

Those headers say a ton...



Oh yeah ——- and they’re just the beginning....... If they touched it - or it was a part spec’d by Mister Sauce — it’s messed up.

[will69camaro]

I’ve seen video of that shifter and it appears to work great! My transmission is an actual sequential transmission — it just uses a T56 case. These conversion trannys are about $20,000 plus or minus depending on whether or not you already have a case to use etc (I did not).

The only part of the car that worked - and funny - wanting a sequential was what started the whole build.

What sequential build did you have? PPG? I was originally looking at one for my camaro but the cost was prohibitive for this simple street car setup.

They take some abuse though and I will one day have one in a vehicle!!!

[GregWeld]

What sequential build did you have? PPG? I was originally looking at one for my camaro but the cost was prohibitive for this simple street car setup.

They take some abuse though and I will one day have one in a vehicle!!!

Yes — they’re not giving these away!

Yes on the PPG....

Skip the first 3 minutes of warming up and fussing around in this video — but here’s how cool they work!!


AHku2sKqQBc

[rixtrix1]

So waiting to see how this turns out the RIGHT way, so you can feel good about it, Greg!

[kwhizz]

it’s only important that SPEEDTECHS guys know what they’re doing and are even good enough to spot the issues to begin with..... Something Sutton nor the dickheads were.


Ouch !!!!…….. Well....It's on the path to recovery now !!!!

[GregWeld]

Well the good news just keeps coming..... here’s the wiring and what was the shielding around one of the battery cables —- DEI heat shield melted — wire cover melted — in other words a fire waiting to happen..... I’m glad Benny Moon didn’t or hasn’t seen what his good buddy built and put him behind the wheel of.....


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[GregWeld]

And here’s what we’re going to reuse of the wiring.... LOL

NOTHING!!




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[LS7 Z/28]

Thank you for sharing all of this Greg. For those of us with projects with the same suspension, we are definitely looking forward to seeing what changes might be made. From a financial standpoint, I hope not a lot has to change in order for it to be safe. We have all spent far too much already, on parts we thought would be the greatest ever, and had assumed that previous testing had been done, and that our safety should never have to be questioned. Thanks again for bringing this all to light. It would be great to see this thread be used as a guide on how to redo what’s wrong with all of the RSRT parts.

[CJD Automotive]

Maybe it's a good thing it could only run 2 laps at a time. Anymore, and the the damn thing may have burnt to the ground on the track.
Just trying to guess who would have been blamed if that had happened...

It was already Benny's fault the watt's link mount broke because he dropped a wheel off. Not like regular roads have pot holes, speed bumps, etc...

[glassman]

Maybe it's a good thing it could only run 2 laps at a time. Anymore, and the the damn thing may have burnt to the ground on the track.
Just trying to guess who would have been blamed if that had happened...

It was already Benny's fault the watt's link mount broke because he dropped a wheel off. Not like regular roads have pot holes, speed bumps, etc...

I missed where he said that. We NEVER have get offs on the track, do we?

Honestly though, honesty.

Do they sell honesty at WalMart? or reputation?

[GregWeld]

I missed where he said that. We NEVER have get offs on the track, do we?

Honestly though, honesty.

Do they sell honesty at WalMart? or reputation?



No but apparently you can get ya some SECRET SAUCE....... CHEAP!

[GregWeld]

Struck a funny bone with me..... just sayin

Read the very last line on the front page of his (Sutton’s) catalog!! LOL —- I should have heeded the warning!!


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[will69camaro]

:lol:

[JKnight]

Lol, oh nooo...that’s too funny.

[gofastwclass]

Wow! :lol:

Each time I see his picture on the catalog after reading your experience with him I think of the people in the world who tell the "I caught a fish this big..." stories.

The picture and last line are like a subliminal message of impending danger.

[1965_SS]

I drove it around the block at their shop before loading it up —- guess what — it had to be pushed back to the shop because the throttle (DBW) wires were melted thru.......

I have not driven it at the track — because it was too much of a mess.... and all they did was thrash on it....

Wow:hairpullout:

Can't wait to see the progress here. Hopefully Blake keeps the thread updated with pics!

[1965_SS]

Yes — they’re not giving these away!

Yes on the PPG....

Skip the first 3 minutes of warming up and fussing around in this video — but here’s how cool they work!!


Damn, that trans is so bad ass!!!!!

[GregWeld]

Here’s a good question....


Who puts a 40 pound 3.5” STEEL drive shaft in a car using a 8” triple disc clutch??

Asking for a friend.






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[Tinker]

Asking for a friend.

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:y0!:

[71RS/SS396]

What a fuggin mess!
I can confirm that's not 2,000* coating.
I'm really curious what the tune looks like...betting it's "lean and mean"
Kurt will probably throw half of the engine in the trash and start over.

[Flash68]

What a fuggin mess!
I can confirm that's not 2,000* coating.


This would not be the first time a customer of Sutton has discovered he sold them something and it was not installed/included in their "goods".... :twak:

[71RS/SS396]

This would not be the first time a customer of Sutton has discovered he sold them something and it was not installed/included in their "goods".... :twak:

Color me shocked....NOT.... :shakehead::shakehead::shakehead:

[Flash68]

Color me shocked....NOT.... :shakehead::shakehead::shakehead:

For those few customers of Sutton who have been defending him til the end, I don't see how they defend this kind of utter dishonestly and complete lack of integrity. Selling people something and NOT providing it is pretty damn black and white.

Good luck with that new business, Sutton...... :EmoteClueless:

[Vegas69]

I get f'in lied to constantly in the real estate business. I was telling my assistant last week that this life is pretty damn simple. TELL THE TRUTH. It will keep your ass out of countless places you don't belong.

[GregWeld]

What a fuggin mess!

I can confirm that's not 2,000* coating.

I'm really curious what the tune looks like...betting it's "lean and mean"

Kurt will probably throw half of the engine in the trash and start over.



WTF — Only “half” the engine.... I’m beginning to wonder if he can even save the block!! LOL

The entire car is a SShow..........

I shoulda just bought a HOWE....

[GregWeld]

I get f'in lied to constantly in the real estate business. I was telling my assistant last week that this life is pretty damn simple. TELL THE TRUTH. It will keep your ass out of countless places you don't belong.



The greatest thing I learned from 34 years of AA —— HONESTY. Plain and simple.

When I shake a mans hand - that means something - say what you’re going to do - and do what you said you were going to do. Everything goes well when that happens.




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[Boris632]

Struck a funny bone with me..... just sayin

Read the very last line on the front page of his (Sutton’s) catalog!! LOL —- I should have heeded the warning!!


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181205/66e695acb655877b54b4e7e952b7d778.jpg


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It does say "open at your own risk"

Yeesh this is just awful.
Reminds me of the Three Stooges "We always get it right the second time"

[raustinss]

Sooo if I was asked by your "friend". I would have told him to consider a carbon fiber driveshaft...????!!

[Stuart Adams]

Dynotech driveshafts pup.

[DBasher]

Sooo if I was asked by your "friend". I would have told him to consider a carbon fiber driveshaft...????!!

It most likely would be a 40lb steel shaft with a carbon fiber wrap....secret sauce! What a dick.

[Blake Foster]

Mark Williams makes the Finest drive shaft I have EVER seen. We use them Exclusively on the builds in the shop.

They are works of art almost too nice to put under a car. we use the Accubond 7075 3.5 or 4" and the one i put in my c10 was like 52" long 4" and could not have weighed 6 lbs (i am guessing) the moly yoke was just as heavy and get this the balance weight.............. was a 10-32 button head bolt!!!

They also make Carbon Fiber ( I have not seen one but can imagine how nice they are) but say that they would normally recommend the 7075. this is prostock quality stuff

[GregWeld]

Dynotech driveshafts pup.

I’m only spending 10% of what it cost to build TUX.... so that’s probably why I got such a quality build from the douche nozzle....

LOL

Sorry Stuart! Couldn’t resist! LOL

[Stuart Adams]

I’m only spending 10% of what it cost to build TUX.... so that’s probably why I got such a quality build from the douche nozzle....

LOL

Sorry Stuart! Couldn’t resist! LOL


Lol. All good buddy. Speed tech will get the POS turned around.

I think the bottom line for me is who would build something in that condition for a great friend and guy, and with the dough to be a great ally. Mind blowing.

[OLDFLM]

Sorry to see the "sauce" turned out even worse than imagined my friend!

Maybe when Blake and his guys are done with the Dirt Missile we can ship them the F!r'd-bird :waveflag:

Keep digging and sharing pics of the quality workmanship you paid for buddy... it'll make the light at the end of the tunnel even brighter when you arrive and can drive this thing!

[BMR Sales]

https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2018/12/06/anigif_sub-buzz-25534-1490718517-5.md.gif (https://www.hostmyjunk.com/image/SI414)

[GregWeld]

SpeedTech has a pretty nifty fix for the front “folding taco” lower control arms....

I’ll post up some pics when the work is done and I get pics that show what they’ve come up with.

Gotta love it when a good shop does good things!!

[CJD Automotive]

SpeedTech has a pretty nifty fix for the front “folding taco” lower control arms....

I’ll post up some pics when the work is done and I get pics that show what they’ve come up with.

Gotta love it when a good shop does good things!!

Hey Greg, maybe you know or Blake. What was the purpose of the independent links? How does it differ than having a one piece lower?
Seems a simple tube tying the two links together would solve the issue, but there must be a reason they don't?

https://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t445/340cuda/20180327_165234_zpsddql698j.jpg (https://s1060.photobucket.com/user/340cuda/media/20180327_165234_zpsddql698j.jpg.html)

[GregWeld]

Maybe Sutton ISN’T a suspension designer after all..... LOL







Hey Greg, maybe you know or Blake. What was the purpose of the independent links? How does it differ than having a one piece lower?
Seems a simple tube tying the two links together would solve the issue, but there must be a reason they don't?

https://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t445/340cuda/20180327_165234_zpsddql698j.jpg (https://s1060.photobucket.com/user/340cuda/media/20180327_165234_zpsddql698j.jpg.html)

[Blake Foster]

The way it is set up when you adjust the caster by lengthening the rear bent tube it pivots on the joint that is out at the ball joint so it needs to be independent or it will just bind.

[Ummgawa]

Greg...dude. I’m shocked about two things. First, that Sauceboy is still pimping his wares...and, two...how much junk he installed in your track Stang. My mind goes to “what the hell do you do to someone who won’t pay, who you don’t like?, much less a dude like Weld who bent over backwards”

Dayuuum

[GregWeld]

Greg...dude. I’m shocked about two things. First, that Sauceboy is still pimping his wares...and, two...how much junk he installed in your track Stang. My mind goes to “what the hell do you do to someone who won’t pay, who you don’t like?, much less a dude like Weld who bent over backwards”

Dayuuum




I’m the idiot —- I trusted him......

[Tinker]

Gregg, as long as we are musing, I was putting my shirt on this morning. (Hey it's still a comfortable shirt, and I definitely can't wear it in public anymore) and something struck my funny bone.

How can one have a book tour without ever publishing a book?

[GregWeld]

It (the non book) must have been being optimized!! The PRE book tour! Yeah that’s it....

[Sieg]

How can one have a book tour without ever publishing a book?
You mean I'm not getting my book?

Now I'm pissed! :sieg:

[gofastwclass]

You mean I'm not getting my book?

Now I'm pissed! :sieg:


That sucks, you could have used it for kindling to get the fireplace started. :secret:

[Che70velle]

Maybe he spilled all of the secret sauce he was was always talking about on the rough draft, and the publisher walked...

[NOVA]

When I shake a mans hand - that means something - say what you’re going to do - and do what you said you were going to do. Everything goes well when that happens.

agreed

[GregWeld]

That sucks, you could have used it for kindling to get the fireplace started. :secret:

You mean I'm not getting my book?

Now I'm pissed! :sieg:

And the reason is?? Pick one!!

1 - I’m busy

2 - I’m on another call let me get back to you

3 - I’m moving

4 - I’m groving

5 - I’m working on it

6 - I’ll have it just as soon as I finish this next project

7 - I’m making it up

8 - It’s being Optimized

9 - Shhhhh Secret Sauce

10 - It’s Weld’s fault

[glassman]

Its #10 :bitchslap:

[xplantdad]

Greg-Good to see that you are getting the race car done right. Hope to see you once the family is healthy !:thumbsup:

[Flash68]

You mean I'm not getting my book?

Now I'm pissed! :sieg:

No but there are probably a sh!t load of 2" thick Summit Racing wannabe catalogs available ! :computer:

[DOOM]

The greatest thing I learned from 34 years of AA —— HONESTY. Plain and simple.

When I shake a mans hand - that means something - say what you’re going to do - and do what you said you were going to do. Everything goes well when that happens.




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Greg I think we both know this just doesn't exist anymore ! I'm never accepting a hand shake ever again!:rules:

[gofastwclass]

Greg I think we both know this just doesn't exist anymore ! I'm never accepting a hand shake ever again!:rules:

There are a few honest people in the world whose hand shake is still a good thing. The problem is finding two of them to make the deal who haven't been jaded. Like chivalry, the handshake deal isn't quite dead yet - but it is on life support. :(

[CJD Automotive]

I was able to get a copy of the email Ron sent out, and thought I would share it...with the appropriate translation.



I'm excited to announce I'm going to continue my business on a smaller scale, offering tech services & a full line of chassis, suspension & brakes.

Because the "larger" scale business is in bankruptcy

It will be just me. So I will be working with a smaller group of clients I chose to work with. Those of you that have worked with me for a few years, know I can be slow to respond as I get buried with projects. I'm going to take on less projects & work on improving my response time, but it still can take a week or so sometimes. Please be patient with me. If you need quicker responses, I'm probably not a good fit.

People just beating down the door to work with you, I bet. So if your lucky enough to be "chosen" by Ron, you'll be rewarded with one week response times when your issue comes up with his stuff. Wow, sounds great, sign me up

I'm not "open for business" yet. I still have to move & set up my inventory, as well as re-setup credit card processing. It will probably be the 2nd week of December before I'm "up & running".

Take this as he hasn't finished with the bankruptcy on the previous business. He got paid for parts he was drop shipping, but is not paying the vendors for the products he sold, instead filing bankruptcy. Needs to set up credit card processing in the new business name and start this all over again...

7 Key things coming:
1. I will be running "Holiday specials" in December & January. I'll email you once I'm "open for business" with what they are.

Will be from vendors he actually paid


2. No Workshop tour, trade shows or track displays. I hated being away from my family 12 times a year, so I'm eliminating those.

His sponsors paid him to maintain his sticky forums and to do the workshop. No more sponsors, means no more workshop, trade shows, track displays. Yeah, this was his decision...

3. I am launching my own blog & forum website where you can learn & ask tech questions online. I'll email you when it is "live."

He was removed as a forum sponsor by LateralG and Pro-Touring. Because he can no longer sell on these sites or get paid to maintain his forum stickies, he will just make his own. What a guy, just giving back...

4. Mid-January, I will update my online catalog to show we no longer sell engines or turn key cars. But we will continue to sell rolling chassis, build-your-own Track-Warriors, Clips, etc. Otherwise, my entire product line will be available.

This means because he didn't pay SDPC Raceshop for previous engines, had engines built for customers without the parts that were spec'd and paid for, no one will build or sell him engines. As to the no longer selling turn key cars, well, kinda built only one and it was a disaster.

5. I am adding a new line of suspension packages I call AutoX-Star, as well as a lower cost weld-on Track-Warrior front clip package.

This means his Howe copy stuff will only be twice as expensive than from other vendors, instead of three times more.

6. Also in the updated catalog will be a lot of new trick parts for building up your muscle car with factory frames & clips.

Brought to you by the same fab shop that built Greg Welds Dirt Missile...

7. I will be adding a ton of "Tech-Helpers" & better instructions to help with your build.

But do "tech-helpers" and instructions help when you screwed up the design originally. No amount of instructions or tech helpers would have helped with the mistakes you made on my parts


I hope you & your family have a wonderful Thanksgiving. Best wishes !!!

Ron Sutton

[BMR Sales]

Gregg, as long as we are musing, I was putting my shirt on this morning. (Hey it's still a comfortable shirt, and I definitely can't wear it in public anymore) and something struck my funny bone.

How can one have a book tour without ever publishing a book?

he did have good Swag! High Quality Secret Sauce Materials!

I'm trying to find a patch to sew over his logo on a Hat!

[DBasher]

I'm trying to find a patch to sew over his logo on a Hat!

Here you go, T.C.

[Stuart Adams]

I was able to get a copy of the email Ron sent out, and thought I would share it...with the appropriate translation.



I'm excited to announce I'm going to continue my business on a smaller scale, offering tech services & a full line of chassis, suspension & brakes.

Because the "larger" scale business is in bankruptcy

It will be just me. So I will be working with a smaller group of clients I chose to work with. Those of you that have worked with me for a few years, know I can be slow to respond as I get buried with projects. I'm going to take on less projects & work on improving my response time, but it still can take a week or so sometimes. Please be patient with me. If you need quicker responses, I'm probably not a good fit.

People just beating down the door to work with you, I bet. So if your lucky enough to be "chosen" by Ron, you'll be rewarded with one week response times when your issue comes up with his stuff. Wow, sounds great, sign me up

I'm not "open for business" yet. I still have to move & set up my inventory, as well as re-setup credit card processing. It will probably be the 2nd week of December before I'm "up & running".

Take this as he hasn't finished with the bankruptcy on the previous business. He got paid for parts he was drop shipping, but is not paying the vendors for the products he sold, instead filing bankruptcy. Needs to set up credit card processing in the new business name and start this all over again...

7 Key things coming:
1. I will be running "Holiday specials" in December & January. I'll email you once I'm "open for business" with what they are.

Will be from vendors he actually paid


2. No Workshop tour, trade shows or track displays. I hated being away from my family 12 times a year, so I'm eliminating those.

His sponsors paid him to maintain his sticky forums and to do the workshop. No more sponsors, means no more workshop, trade shows, track displays. Yeah, this was his decision...

3. I am launching my own blog & forum website where you can learn & ask tech questions online. I'll email you when it is "live."

He was removed as a forum sponsor by LateralG and Pro-Touring. Because he can no longer sell on these sites or get paid to maintain his forum stickies, he will just make his own. What a guy, just giving back...

4. Mid-January, I will update my online catalog to show we no longer sell engines or turn key cars. But we will continue to sell rolling chassis, build-your-own Track-Warriors, Clips, etc. Otherwise, my entire product line will be available.

This means because he didn't pay SDPC Raceshop for previous engines, had engines built for customers without the parts that were spec'd and paid for, no one will build or sell him engines. As to the no longer selling turn key cars, well, kinda built only one and it was a disaster.

5. I am adding a new line of suspension packages I call AutoX-Star, as well as a lower cost weld-on Track-Warrior front clip package.

This means his Howe copy stuff will only be twice as expensive than from other vendors, instead of three times more.

6. Also in the updated catalog will be a lot of new trick parts for building up your muscle car with factory frames & clips.

Brought to you by the same fab shop that built Greg Welds Dirt Missile...

7. I will be adding a ton of "Tech-Helpers" & better instructions to help with your build.

But do "tech-helpers" and instructions help when you screwed up the design originally. No amount of instructions or tech helpers would have helped with the mistakes you made on my parts


I hope you & your family have a wonderful Thanksgiving. Best wishes !!!

Ron Sutton



:confused59::confused59::confused59::confused59:

[Ummgawa]

He has completely lost his mind....change his name to Prodigy?

[fleetus macmullitz]

I was able to get a copy of the email Ron sent out, and thought I would share it...with the appropriate translation.


I'm excited to announce I'm going to continue my business on a smaller scale, offering tech services & a full line of chassis, suspension & brakes.

Because the "larger" scale business is in bankruptcy

It will be just me. So I will be working with a smaller group of clients I chose to work with. Those of you that have worked with me for a few years, know I can be slow to respond as I get buried with projects. I'm going to take on less projects & work on improving my response time, but it still can take a week or so sometimes. Please be patient with me. If you need quicker responses, I'm probably not a good fit.

People just beating down the door to work with you, I bet. So if your lucky enough to be "chosen" by Ron, you'll be rewarded with one week response times when your issue comes up with his stuff. Wow, sounds great, sign me up

I'm not "open for business" yet. I still have to move & set up my inventory, as well as re-setup credit card processing. It will probably be the 2nd week of December before I'm "up & running".

Take this as he hasn't finished with the bankruptcy on the previous business. He got paid for parts he was drop shipping, but is not paying the vendors for the products he sold, instead filing bankruptcy. Needs to set up credit card processing in the new business name and start this all over again...

7 Key things coming:
1. I will be running "Holiday specials" in December & January. I'll email you once I'm "open for business" with what they are.

Will be from vendors he actually paid


2. No Workshop tour, trade shows or track displays. I hated being away from my family 12 times a year, so I'm eliminating those.

His sponsors paid him to maintain his sticky forums and to do the workshop. No more sponsors, means no more workshop, trade shows, track displays. Yeah, this was his decision...

3. I am launching my own blog & forum website where you can learn & ask tech questions online. I'll email you when it is "live."

He was removed as a forum sponsor by LateralG and Pro-Touring. Because he can no longer sell on these sites or get paid to maintain his forum stickies, he will just make his own. What a guy, just giving back...

4. Mid-January, I will update my online catalog to show we no longer sell engines or turn key cars. But we will continue to sell rolling chassis, build-your-own Track-Warriors, Clips, etc. Otherwise, my entire product line will be available.

This means because he didn't pay SDPC Raceshop for previous engines, had engines built for customers without the parts that were spec'd and paid for, no one will build or sell him engines. As to the no longer selling turn key cars, well, kinda built only one and it was a disaster.

5. I am adding a new line of suspension packages I call AutoX-Star, as well as a lower cost weld-on Track-Warrior front clip package.

This means his Howe copy stuff will only be twice as expensive than from other vendors, instead of three times more.

6. Also in the updated catalog will be a lot of new trick parts for building up your muscle car with factory frames & clips.

Brought to you by the same fab shop that built Greg Welds Dirt Missile...

7. I will be adding a ton of "Tech-Helpers" & better instructions to help with your build.

But do "tech-helpers" and instructions help when you screwed up the design originally. No amount of instructions or tech helpers would have helped with the mistakes you made on my parts


I hope you & your family have a wonderful Thanksgiving. Best wishes !!!

Ron Sutton

:shakehead:

https://i.postimg.cc/yx6ymbxJ/18-EE8559-0-A0-C-48-D6-9-A98-ED3-B77-C62-A11.jpg (https://postimages.cc/)

[GregWeld]

Craig —— Hysterical post! Sadly it’s all true....

I shared with a few - the email I received from “Mister I built 200 race cars”.... (page 6 of his Summit Wannabe catalog).... after I sent him an email stating basically - “you could have been on the beach in Hawaii if you’d just done what you said you could do....”

Yes — passive aggressive... but the truth is — if he’d have delivered on all the promises and HYPE he was so capable of spewing (not just the mess he made for me) he’d be rolling in sales and have a line up of new track cars to build.... But when you crap in your own bed... all those “friends” you used to think you had.. yeah they don’t like the stench you created.

My point?? Just be a normal honest human being when you want to start a business. No need to lie. No need to glorify. No need to always talk about yourself. Just offer the products you intend to support. Have decent honest prices. DELIVER on what you offer and DELIVER on the support you say you will provide. DONE!

Obviously there’s a lot more to running a business than this — but you won’t STAY in business if you don’t do what I said above. We’ve all seen it a million times — Prodigy — the wheel guy that was around here for awhile.... this newest latest idiot.

Then — there are people that do the same rinse and repeat disaster and never figure it out. I think - from the response I got from Sutton — that he is one of these. He blamed everyone else for my car build issues. And when I say EVERYONE — I mean — he even included people that had absolutely not one single thing to do with the car. NOTHING. But they were included. LOL

200 race cars built.... but you can’t plumb a cooling system? 200 race cars built - and you state you’re a dry sump expert - but you plumb in a PCV system? 200 race cars built and the brake lines are within 2 laps of being rubbed thru? 200 race cars built and your guys have wires (multiple) burnt — including battery cabling... oh — and the excuse?? Mine was a prototype.... LOL

Plumbing is plumbing it isn’t prototyping.... Dry sumps are not prototypes... running wiring correctly isn’t prototyping.... shipping the parts people ordered — yeah — that’s not prototyping either...

Carnival barker comes to mind.

Anybody remember The Wizard of Oz?? Near the end when they pull the curtain back and “The Wizard” is pulling handles and cranking cranks and he says — “oh never mind that man behind the curtain”..... He pulled the same exact crap when he “ran 9 race teams” (also bankrupt and sued for lying).

Like I told him in my response - maybe trying READING a book instead of trying to write one.

[CJD Automotive]

I think I knew it was all BS when I made a simple shock fixture.

I haven't built 200 cars, in fact, mine is the first car I've ever built that had coil overs mounted to jack screws.

I knew that the articulating top would make it very difficult to attach the mounts to the chassis inline, so I just slipped some scrap tube together with a mount.

Now this is my FIRST car I've ever built that had this type of mount, and within about ten minutes, figured out I needed to make SOMETHING to make this easier.

So lets just say I'm smarter than the average guy, doubtful, but lets just roll with that. I'm going to say by at least the fifth car you built, you'd come up with this simple shock fixture? Okay, maybe the twentieth? But 200 cars in, and he see's it, tells me it's a great idea, and ask if he can make a copy, "optimized" of course.

I knew then, he had never built a car, he may have consulted, oversaw, managed, or "optimized" the build, but no way he did it in this century.

BTW, he never offered to give me one of the "optimized" shock fixtures he copied and sells. What a guy.

[raustinss]

Hope I dont get my hands slapped for this one ... at least Frank from prodigy went away after screwing everyone . Seems like special sauce boy is like that one guy who shows up at the party uninvited and then doesnt take any hints about leaving lol

[GregWeld]

Hope I dont get my hands slapped for this one ... at least Frank from prodigy went away after screwing everyone . Seems like special sauce boy is like that one guy who shows up at the party uninvited and then doesnt take any hints about leaving lol



It’s like playing WHACK A MOLE —— he’s too damn dumb and too much of a sociopath to even understand that people aren’t going to welcome him back. Let alone do business with him.

In an email I got from him, he exclaimed that he has hundreds of Great satisfied customers. It’s only me and Craig that are the idiots....

He’s like the rapist that tries to convince the jury that “she wanted it”.... LOL

[WSSix]

What ever happened to Frank anyway? Did he move an open another shop elsewhere not focusing on the PT world? Just curious.

Keep us updated, Greg.

[GregWeld]

What ever happened to Frank anyway? Did he move an open another shop elsewhere not focusing on the PT world? Just curious.

Keep us updated, Greg.


Good question Trey! I had heard that he’d moved to Canada.... but I never hear his name mentioned so I have no clue.

RE the dirt missile

Motor is out and on it’s way to Texas for Scoggins Dickey (Kurt Urban) to tear into and see what’s what.

A few parts have been ordered etc

The plan is to work on it this week — and do what they can without parts — then take a break and wait for parts to come in — wait to hear what’s with the motor — and then get back on it. We’re planning on being done in March if at all possible. SPEEDTECH is all over it!!

[gofastwclass]

Very cool. This thing is moving forward faster than bad news! :D

[raustinss]

I let my fingers do some searching a few years ago Frank's name came up tied into some steel company somewhere in the Toronto area . I tried to post it here but due to his safety and such it never made it past the mods . I'm sure hes moved onto something else now. Sorry for the hi jack Greg.

[GregWeld]

Very cool. This thing is moving forward faster than bad news! :D


These guys are just all over it — they understand my situation.... And I really appreciate them even taking this on! Most shops wouldn’t. Nobody wants to take on other peoples problems like this..... They usually don’t come out looking good on it - you’re taking on a basket of worms with a lot of people watching and waiting the eventual outcome..... So my hat is off to SpeedTech for helping me maybe see this thing actually turn in to a race car.

[Flash68]

We’re planning on being done in March if at all possible. SPEEDTECH is all over it!!

March 16-17 first NASA Norcal event at Sonoma. Just trying to help! :D

[CJD Automotive]

March 16-17 first NASA Norcal event at Sonoma. Just trying to help! :D


I'm thinking Daytona for Optima...Outlaw class! Then sign on to a track day at Sebring the following weekend.

[Flash68]

I'm thinking Daytona for Optima...Outlaw class! Then sign on to a track day at Sebring the following weekend.

The Dirt Missile Reincarnated on 200 TW tires? Yeah, no. :lol: :action-smiley-027:

[Che70velle]

Greg, I might have missed it in the initial build specs, but what is the wheelbase of the car in inches?

[GregWeld]

greg, i might have missed it in the initial build specs, but what is the wheelbase of the car in inches?




it’s short on quality...... Long on excuses..... Missed the mark wide by a mile.....


Lol


look up a 1970 mustang - should be right there.

[GregWeld]

I’m going to post a list of what was done right on the car....



Now for what was wrong......


Motor badly overheated.... to the point that it began melting the temp sender...
Oil starvation
Dry sump tank was only a 2 gallon — requires at least a 3 gallon
Exhaust valves burnt - not one good one
Lousy tune
KRC P/S pump burnt up (no cooler)
2000* header coating burned off
Wiring and connectors melted
Ridiculously heavy steel (cheap) driveshaft
Plumbing for the AirJax too small and not balanced
Custom made headers blocking access to plug(s)
Brake lines almost cut thru

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So — the entire car is being rewired
Motor sent to Kurt Urban at Scoggins-Dickey Race Shop for complete rebuild
Replacing the block - heads - cam - lifters - rocker arms just to name a few parts
Block will be upgraded to the RHS version
SpeedTech has added - oil cooler - power steering cooler - tranny cooler - rear end cooler (with pumps etc)
Laid the radiator at an angle and will exit via hood/front end
New lightweight Mark Williams aluminum driveline that weighs 6 pounds less than the cheap steel shaft did without the yoke! 18 #’s without yoke vs 12 #’s complete with yoke - and it’s tested to 3000 #’s of Torque
KRC P/S pump sent back for rebuild - new one ordered - repaired version will be “backup”
Heat shielding added to firewall and tranny tunnel
Headers modified and returned to Jet Hot for re-coating - and will be wrapped upon reinstall as well
3 gallon dry sump tank to replace the 2 gallon version
Wheel tubs rebuilt
NACA ducting to cooler
Brake line mounting revised so they don’t rub and get cut

This is just some of the mods and repairs that I can remember off the top of my head..... trust me —— there’s much more done, and to be done. Basically there was not a single item done correctly so the car is being rebuilt from the ground up.

We’re ditching the Super secret Sutton BS decoupled three link rear for a simple three link — and we’ll test that - and may still yard it all out and replace it with a Torque Arm - but not sure at this point which way we’ll go.

Front LCA’s rebuilt with gussets and pickup points so they won’t fold like a taco under braking.... (Suttons Secret Sauce version folded TWICE on Mike DuSolds car under braking - damaging his car!

The rear wheel tubs were only the Back 1/2 of a tub
There was nothing on the front side of the wheel so the battery and fuel lines were all exposed to everything and as you know no front tubs

So basically I threw $200,000 down a rat hole known as Ron Sutton Race Technologies —— and SpeedTech is doing a marvelous job of straightening it all out so I’ll end up with what I should have gotten from Mister Secret Sauce in the first place.

[Tinker]

Motor sent to Kurt Urban at Scoggins-Dickey Race Shop for complete REPLACE
Replacing the block - heads - cam - lifters - rocker arms just to name a few parts




There I fixed it for you.

I know this thing will finally be the great car you thought you were buying last year, but I still want to puke when I hear the horror stories, and I'm not the one that shelled out $200000

Can't wait to see version 2.0!

[GregWeld]

A couple photos of the new stuff going in.....


Rear end coolers with some ducting....


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190108/1d30b3c6f78f772e84e04b8b134c15a0.jpg

[CJD Automotive]

They didn't build stainless headers?

[GregWeld]

Added firewall and tranny tunnel heat shield....


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190108/30f04656807d8e9cbc9983ad4311313e.jpg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[GregWeld]

Laying the radiator forward for some ducting so the POS will actually cool.... don’t even get me started with Suttons ability to do anything but self promote - self deal.... He certainly doesn’t know anything about building a car.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190108/31ea9d3630cc4e7eec231762bb0247b1.jpg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[GregWeld]

And for laughs —— we stayed at the Four Seasons in Beverly Hills for a recent trip to LA for furniture shopping.... and Marilyn was out at the entrance.... and well.... being the teenage brained 65 year old that I am.... this pic says it all.




https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190108/1058a1f3761a4f2fb7c55602ffb66a15.jpg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[GregWeld]

They didn't build stainless headers?



You wanted me to spend $300,000 ???? WTF — why would you think there was anything quality or thought out??


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[GregWeld]

There I fixed it for you.



I know this thing will finally be the great car you thought you were buying last year, but I still want to puke when I hear the horror stories, and I'm not the one that shelled out $200000



Can't wait to see version 2.0!


Thanks for the fix!! LOL

Version 2.0 will be bad ass and work all day — every time out.... it will finally be “mean and fast” and built to last.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[71RS/SS396]

Uggghhh!!! :headscratch::headscratch::headscratch:

[214Chevy]

I'm thinking if he did this to you Greg....a friend, I'd hate to think what he'd have done to one of us guys he doesn't even know. The funny part is, I bet ol Ron is reading all of this wondering how did he ever get himself in this mess and how his plan was foiled and didn't work. :bang::animated_bye_bye_em

[raustinss]

And for laughs —— we stayed at the Four Seasons in Beverly Hills for a recent trip to LA for furniture shopping.... and Marilyn was out at the entrance.... and well.... being the teenage brained 65 year old that I am.... this pic says it all.




https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190108/1058a1f3761a4f2fb7c55602ffb66a15.jpg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Were you looking to see if her undercarriage is better than the sauced stangs'?

[GregWeld]

I'm thinking if he did this to you Greg....a friend, I'd hate to think what he'd have done to one of us guys he doesn't even know. The funny part is, I bet ol Ron is reading all of this wondering how did he ever get himself in this mess and how his plan was foiled and didn't work. :bang::animated_bye_bye_em


I came on here - hung my head - barred my soul... in an attempt to save anyone else from being involved with the bozo.... Because exactly as you say — we “were” friends.... Sadly — there were many whom got involved and got burned just on a more “fractional” basis... but to me - the result for many was even more devastating! I can afford to fix my mess... I’ve had lots of messes... most self inflicted!

I never in my wildest imagination would have thought he - of all people - would have faired so poorly. Never. But once I started to hear others tales of woe... then it all became clear and the puzzle fell in to place.

For some folks — it (his BS) not only wrecked their project - it wrecked their hopes and dreams and desires....

Funny — I’ve since exchanged emails with him — and he still deflects.... and casts blame... and can’t understand why I could “ruin his business”. I will stand by my statement — I didn’t ruin his business... HE DID... he just refuses to understand what he’s done.

I particularly love the part (email exchanges) where he says he wouldn’t let Kurt Urban build a lawnmower engine for him.... REALLY?? If you go back prior to him (Sutton) being called out — it was ALL about how good Kurt Urban was! LOL

The fact that the motor is ruined IS NOT and never was the fault of anyone other than him (Sutton) failing to even get the very basics of car building.... things need to be tuned correctly — they need to be cooled correctly — they need to be plumbed and wired correctly.... you can’t fail to do those basics and then blame the engine builder — or the pump builder — or the radiator manufacturer..... yet that’s what he is still trying to do.

F him —- and the horse he rode in on.

[DBasher]

A couple photos of the new stuff going in.....


Rear end coolers with some ducting....


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190108/1d30b3c6f78f772e84e04b8b134c15a0.jpg

Are these being fed from the quarter windows?

[GregWeld]

Were you looking to see if her undercarriage is better than the sauced stangs'?

:lol::lol::lol:


Actually the chassis ain’t bad.... but anything that goes roundy round - pumps fluid - holds fluid - transfers energy or forward motion.... different story.

Oh! Similar to what I saw with the plastic replica.... was nothing but a tease. :wacko:

[GregWeld]

Are these being fed from the quarter windows?

I think so Dan.... but not sure whether that’s the exact location or not yet but I think so.

What they won’t be — is hung off the quarter window with a couple screws like the NACA duct that “they” (Sutton and idiots) attached = mostly hanging out in thin air waiting to be broken off...

[Che70velle]

Urban is one of the most highly respected builders in the country. Your in good hands there, as you well know. As you already said Greg, the finest, most technically advanced race engine on earth won’t survive if it’s not set up with the correct ancillary systems.
I’m good friends with Ken Roper (KRC). That’s a local business to me and he has an incredible rags to riches story. Absolutely great family! He once owned a business that sold Race parts out of a cube van. (FastLane) He eventually found a metal building to sell race parts out of, and I used to spend 60% of my paycheck as a single guy, building hot rods there. He started tinkering with power steering pumps, and the rest is history.
Great to hear and see progress pics Greg on the Missle. Hang in there my friend, spring is coming fast and you’ll be putting down laps in this thing before you know it. Hope 2019 is your best year yet!!

[GregWeld]

Urban is one of the most highly respected builders in the country. Your in good hands there, as you well know. As you already said Greg, the finest, most technically advanced race engine on earth won’t survive if it’s not set up with the correct ancillary systems.
I’m good friends with Ken Roper (KRC). That’s a local business to me and he has an incredible rags to riches story. Absolutely great family! He once owned a business that sold Race parts out of a cube van. (FastLane) He eventually found a metal building to sell race parts out of, and I used to spend 60% of my paycheck as a single guy, building hot rods there. He started tinkering with power steering pumps, and the rest is history.
Great to hear and see progress pics Greg on the Missle. Hang in there my friend, spring is coming fast and you’ll be putting down laps in this thing before you know it. Hope 2019 is your best year yet!!




Thanks Scott!!

Great story on Ken BTW!! Love that stuff!!

You can stop by and make sure my pump is being rebuilt..... LOL

I’m hoping my January 31st CT scan has some ‘positive’ news.... and that your prediction of 2019 comes true! I would LOVE nothing more than to be able to get some laps in on the car...... I would have loved it even more if Sutton was there with me and reaping the benefits (business wise) of having built a great product and people were lined up to order their version... but that’s water under the bridge.

Cheers buddy!

[BMR Sales]

you said that the motor was sent to Scoggin-Dickey for a rebuild and then listed what was going to be replaced. It sounded like Everything - anything left over besides Paper Weights? :G-Dub:

[GregWeld]

you said that the motor was sent to Scoggin-Dickey for a rebuild and then listed what was going to be replaced. It sounded like Everything - anything left over besides Paper Weights? :G-Dub:

As Tim McGilton described it —- “My V8 boat anchor”.......

[gofastwclass]

As Tim McGilton described it —- “My V8 boat anchor”.......


Almost sounds like when you lose a Top Fuel engine... you get lots of really small souvenirs and couple bits of wall art. :G-Dub:

[CJD Automotive]

You know the crazy part, well one of them, is when you guys were at T-Hill. I was texting with Aaron on how it was going, and he said it was puking oil out of the tank breather. I suggested checking the tank cap, assuming an air leak, because that's normally what makes them puke. Never in a million years would I have guessed they plumbed in a PCV, putting a HUGE air leak in the system. That's dry sump 101.

Please keep showing everyone how the self proclaimed master of all things race car, screwed up even the simplest of task.

[GregWeld]

You know the crazy part, well one of them, is when you guys were at T-Hill. I was texting with Aaron on how it was going, and he said it was puking oil out of the tank breather. I suggested checking the tank cap, assuming an air leak, because that's normally what makes them puke. Never in a million years would I have guessed they plumbed in a PCV, putting a HUGE air leak in the system. That's dry sump 101.

Please keep showing everyone how the self proclaimed master of all things race car, screwed up even the simplest of task.




Yeah Craig — I have to say the more we get in to the car - the worse it gets..... There simply isn’t a single system that was done right. No coolers on anything... motor burnt up - wiring burnt up.... Dry sump is on so you DO NOT suffer oil starvation.... but then, that’s assuming you know how to plumb one.

MISTER “I’ve built 200 race cars....”

HA! What a joke that S.O.B is.

[Blown353]

MISTER “I’ve built 200 race cars....”

HA! What a joke that S.O.B is.

Let's cut him some slack, he may actually have built over 200 race cars...

https://lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=67848&stc=1&d=1547159301

...he just sniffed too much glue while building them.

Reading this thread and the original build thread just makes me shake my head in disbelief. I *almost* drank the "secret sauce" kool aid over a year ago and was about to order a floater rear end from Ron but got an odd feeling at the last minute and ordered a currie instead. I've already used all my luck with Frank at Prodigy... I was one of the lucky ones who actually received all my parts from him before that house of cards collapsed.

I feel really bad for Greg and everyone else who was taken for a ride.

Looking forward to the testing of the rebuilt car!

[BonzoHansen]

To this day I'm still amazed at everything that went down. And I'm just a long distance bystander.

I look forward to the day you get to take the first lap in v2.0.

Somewhere my free RSRT sema shirt is on the shelf at a goodwill store. I hope the poor bastard that gets it doesn't get cursed.

[kwhizz]

I just love Greg's straight forward analysis of what happened during his build.... Usually everyone is afraid to really call out and explain the B.S. they got and "PAID" for.....

Ken

[gofastwclass]

I just love Greg's straight forward analysis of what happened during his build.... Usually everyone is afraid to really call out and explain the B.S. they got and "PAID" for.....

Ken

So true!!!

[OLDFLM]

I would have loved it even more if Sutton was there with me and reaping the benefits (business wise) of having built a great product and people were lined up to order their version... but that’s water under the bridge.

Karma is what it is... but Greg continues to be one of the good guys!

One of best OG's on here IMHO who's been "calling it as it is" and as he sees it since day one! (...should have listened closer...)

Here's to a great CT scan and an amazing 2019 for you buddy!!!

[F'in mine]

I really feel for ya, spending your hard earned money and getting a product that was substandard & below expectations. Man you guys with the high end builds can't seem to get a break.....which reminds me a another high end Camaro build that I've read which had a litany of problems.

I'm a small potatoes guy in the big picture Lat-G scene but decided to reach out to Ron after reading a' Brake sizing and selection tutorial' informative article on braking over at PT.com, Tobin also had some input.
Contacted him, he returned my email 16 days later. I thought it was a little excessive, I understand people lead busy lives but c'mon.
Excerpt of email response:
Sorry for the crazy long delay. Just a heads up that I have been & still am swamped with projects right now for SEMA ... then I'll be gone to Las Vegas for 10 days before & during SEMA ... doing my Suspension Workshop there, launching a new line of brakes in conjunction with StopTech, then displaying at the Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational the weekend after SEMA.

I'll be back in the office Wednesday, Nov 9th following up on calls & emails first, then getting back to my client projects including yours. So if you try to contact me between now & then, don't be frustrated I don't answer. I'll be the guy running 200 mph with his hair on fire. LOL

Call me the week after SEMA & let's go over the details of what you have in mind.

Until then, take care !

After this response I decided to deal with Tobin and haven't looked back.
Seems he bit off more than he could chew, I've been running my own business for 32 years and decided to stay smaller for my own sanity, family, quality of life yet give my customers a level of customer service that they expect and I give without compromising future new customers & referrals because a unhappy customer will certainly tell a hell of a lot more people than a happy one.
I really hope everything gets straightened out & in the end the final product exceeds your expectations and vision, plus we want you to post up another track video!

[Vegas69]

That reminds me of a time management problem. "Man, I'm so busy" Busy doing what?

We've all heard that line so many times. Guess what, if you are that damn busy something is wrong. You either don't have your priorities straight, you have poor systems, or you need to hire help. There is always the choice to say NO. I know I'm speaking Greek here. ha

It's a big RED FLAG when people are too busy.

[F'in mine]

Forgot to mention that my correspondences were from 2016.

[GregWeld]

That reminds me of a time management problem. "Man, I'm so busy" Busy doing what?

We've all heard that line so many times. Guess what, if you are that damn busy something is wrong. You either don't have your priorities straight, you have poor systems, or you need to hire help. There is always the choice to say NO. I know I'm speaking Greek here. ha

It's a big RED FLAG when people are too busy.

The only reason he was “TOO BUSY” was because he couldn’t shut up.... the simplest phone call turned in to a story telling session about me, myself, and how great I was and am..... I told him this 50 times.... SHUT The F UP — answer the questions - solve the issue - make the sale... ship the product or service... plenty of time to BS when you see them at SEMA or some other format....

[BMR Sales]

The only reason he was “TOO BUSY” was because he couldn’t shut up.... the simplest phone call turned in to a story telling session about me, myself, and how great I was and am..... I told him this 50 times.... SHUT The F UP — answer the questions - solve the issue - make the sale... ship the product or service... plenty of time to BS when you see them at SEMA or some other format....

That should be in Sales 101, but I think a lot of people skip that class. We had a guy here that would be on a call for 30 minutes talking about who knows what and in the meantime 4-5 calls were missed. Some will call back, some won't. If the ones that do get ignored again, guess what happens?

[GregWeld]

To this day I'm still amazed at everything that went down. And I'm just a long distance bystander.



I look forward to the day you get to take the first lap in v2.0.



Somewhere my free RSRT sema shirt is on the shelf at a goodwill store. I hope the poor bastard that gets it doesn't get cursed.



ME TOO!!! Because my one and only “stint” in the car - was a rip around the city streets behind where it was built —- and I couldn’t make it back to the shop..... because all the throttle wiring was melted....

That should have been my first clue — there were MANY....

Agree with your curse comment.... there’s a long line of folks over a number of years and businesses he’s had that haven’t faired so well.


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[GregWeld]

The RIGHT sized dry sump tank installed.... This - along with proper plumbing and deleting the PCV system (idiots).... ought to actually have this system working correctly!



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[CJD Automotive]

The RIGHT sized dry sump tank installed.... This - along with proper plumbing and deleting the PCV system (idiots).... ought to actually have this system working correctly!

What size tank did he put on it?

[GregWeld]

What size tank did he put on it?



Mister “I’m a race car builder” put a 2 gallon tank on it — along with a PCV system.... LOL

[CJD Automotive]

Mister “I’m a race car builder” put a 2 gallon tank on it — along with a PCV system.... LOL

WTF?! You know as well as me, you don't put 2 gallons in a 2 gallon tank, so you got like a 6/7 quart system...less than a stock LS7 by 2-3 quarts. Must be some of that secret sauce race car magic I don't understand.

[CJD Automotive]

So not enough oil, and what wasn't being puked out of the tank breather was being whipped to a frothy sauce because of the PCV air leak. I see now why the engine is killed.

[GregWeld]

WTF?! You know as well as me, you don't put 2 gallons in a 2 gallon tank, so you got like a 6/7 quart system...less than a stock LS7 by 2-3 quarts. Must be some of that secret sauce race car magic I don't understand.



I hear via the grape juice vine that being full of Secret Sauce can cost you your business.... We used to call Secret Sauce by another word that starts with S in the old days.

[GregWeld]

WTF?! You know as well as me, you don't put 2 gallons in a 2 gallon tank, so you got like a 6/7 quart system...less than a stock LS7 by 2-3 quarts. Must be some of that secret sauce race car magic I don't understand.

So...... What you’re saying is —— maybe —- just maybe —- running 4 banger dirt track midget cars doesn’t qualify you to be the “know it all” you made yourself out to be?? IS that the Secret of the sauce??? LOL

[carbuff]

Mister “I’m a race car builder” put a 2 gallon tank on it — along with a PCV system.... LOL

Several of you have commented on this, but someone educate me please...

Why don't you use a PCV system with a dry sump?

On TOW I don't run a true PCV, but I do have my valve covers plumbed to fresh air inside of the air cleaner. I also have an overflow / breather tank on the side of my oil tank. Oil should never get in there, but I do get some puffs of smoke out of it.

Am I doing something wrong here?

[MtotheIKEo]

The dry sump should be pulling a vacuum on the crankcase, any breathers or leaks in the system are just fighting to equalize that vacuum.

[CJD Automotive]

Dry sumps are sealed systems. Good pumps can pull over 20” of vacuum on the crankcase, literally pulling in gaskets and seals. Most use a vacuum regulator installed on the engine to limit that to 12-15”. If you do have an air leak, you are pulling and mixing the oil with a large quantity of air. That makes foamy aerated oil. The tanks are designed with screens and steps that deareate the oil as it settles from the top to bottom. With an air leak, especially as big as a PCV hole, the amount of air is so excessive the tank simply can’t remove it from the oil. The air expansion in the tank, normally handled by the TANK breather, is being overwhelmed by the excessive air, the oil is not deareating, and gets puked out the breathers. The aerated oil provides little to no bearing film, and consequently bearing scuffs or failures result. The tiny size of the tank and capacity only exaggerated the issue.
They were running this engine at 10/10ths for two lap stints, with less oil capacity than required and massively aerated. Can’t understand how they did this multiple times for multiple days knowing they were causing damage. I simply don’t understand that thought process.

[Peter McMahon]

So let me get this straight, he was either ignorant about dry sump systems, or he is knowledgeable about them and understood what he was doing so it was intentional damage? Flipping coin hits floor...

[randy]

Miss educated post like this. Thank you for the knowledge


Dry sumps are sealed systems. Good pumps can pull over 20” of vacuum on the crankcase, literally pulling in gaskets and seals. Most use a vacuum regulator installed on the engine to limit that to 12-15”. If you do have an air leak, you are pulling and mixing the oil with a large quantity of air. That makes foamy aerated oil. The tanks are designed with screens and steps that deareate the oil as it settles from the top to bottom. With an air leak, especially as big as a PCV hole, the amount of air is so excessive the tank simply can’t remove it from the oil. The air expansion in the tank, normally handled by the TANK breather, is being overwhelmed by the excessive air, the oil is not deareating, and gets puked out the breathers. The aerated oil provides little to no bearing film, and consequently bearing scuffs or failures result. The tiny size of the tank and capacity only exaggerated the issue.
They were running this engine at 10/10ths for two lap stints, with less oil capacity than required and massively aerated. Can’t understand how they did this multiple times for multiple days knowing they were causing damage. I simply don’t understand that thought process.

[GregWeld]

So let me get this straight, he was either ignorant about dry sump systems, or he is knowledgeable about them and understood what he was doing so it was intentional damage? Flipping coin hits floor...



Sometimes even if a guy is a supposed “genius” (self described) - doesn’t mean he can hang a picture..... or understand a dry sump....

The funny part — you should have seen the “monkey F’n the football” when the car would come off track and they’d begin their “clean up in aisle 3” routine — in other words — ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS.

The guys that were there for this “outting” so wanted me to fire him right there and let them take over — because we mostly had the “issue” figured out.... but by that time it was me still wanting Mister Secret Sauce to be able to save himself..... dumb on my part in retrospect — but we all have 20/20 hindsight....

Oh well.... it shall all be fixedededed right up shortly.

[carbuff]

Dry sumps are sealed systems. <snip>

Thanx for the explanation. I may block the ports on my valve covers, although everything looked good when we did the rebuild last year given my current setup. I don't have any method of de-aerating my oil, so I can see where this would be a potential problem for me...

[GregWeld]

Thanx for the explanation. I may block the ports on my valve covers, although everything looked good when we did the rebuild last year given my current setup. I don't have any method of de-aerating my oil, so I can see where this would be a potential problem for me...

To be sure Bryan — there is a connection between the top of the oil tank and your PCV system (vacuum)..... so be sure you learn about these systems to fully understand them.

[Flash68]

Thanx for the explanation. I may block the ports on my valve covers, although everything looked good when we did the rebuild last year given my current setup. I don't have any method of de-aerating my oil, so I can see where this would be a potential problem for me...

What tank are you running? My understanding is that most all tanks have some internal baffling for de-aeration purposes.

[CJD Automotive]

What tank are you running? My understanding is that most all tanks have some internal baffling for de-aeration purposes.


Sounds like a stock GM setup, which is a hybrid dry sump. If so, you need your breathers, but can be plumbed through Petersons breather can, and then to the tank.

As Greg said, if you have a pump with scavenge stages and are pulling vacuum on the crankcase, you need two additional pieces. A vacuum regulator to limit the amount of vacuum pulled on the crankcase, and a pressure pop off. Most pop offs are plumbed back to the tank. This is just a safety valve for a sealed crankcase. If the pump has an instance when it can't pull a vacuum, with the crankcase sealed, the pressure has no where to go, and usually pushes past a seal. The pop off, lets that pressure be evacuated to the tank, while still allowing the crankcase to be sealed.

[GregWeld]

New THREE gallon dry sump tank mounted..... and it’s mounted NOW behind the protection of a NEW front wheel tub.... You can only imagine the amount of track debris that was being thrown against the firewall — and anything back there....



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[GregWeld]

Hard to see from this photo - but this is the new front tub looking back from the front of the car.... I’d be happy with that quality of fabrication on a fancy build!!!! Remember this is a race car - plain and simple.... I like their (SpeedTech) craftsmanship!!




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[GregWeld]

Blake and I were just discussing the whole “PCV” system and vacuum pop off valves etc.... of course he has been in direct contact with A.R.E and Kurt Urban.... both of whom know their way around these systems.......

Had Sutton bothered to do this while building the car —- it might have saved me a few grand.... and even more important to me —- MY TIME.....


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[71RS/SS396]

How you plumb the topend of the engine is really dependent on the scavenge ability of the pump and whether it can maintain vacuum on the crankcase when the engine is wound up. If you can't maintain vacuum when the engine is at max rpm you have to vent the crankcase pressure to somewhere or you're going to have blow-by issues.
I started out with a 3 stage Dailey that made vacuum at idle but with the 4.125 stroke crank I have it couldn't maintain vacuum when we revved it up. I added 2 more scavenge stages, I can now maintain 15" of vacuum at 8,000 rpm and picked up 20 hp. I initially ran it sealed but with street driving I started seeing moisture accumulation in the tank oil cap and the valve covers. I plumbed a -4 line from the drivers side valve cover to the top of the tank to turn the air over and cured the moisture issue.

What I have done with the 3 stage pumps is to run one -12 line from the valve cover to the top of the tank, you can run it to the tank breather but you'll just fill with oil quicker.

[71RS/SS396]

Blake and I were just discussing the whole “PCV” system and vacuum pop off valves etc.... of course he has been in direct contact with A.R.E and Kurt Urban.... both of whom know their way around these systems.......

Had Sutton bothered to do this while building the car —- it might have saved me a few grand.... and even more important to me —- MY TIME.....


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Gdub I would get rid of that Y point by the "B" in your drawing and run each valve cover line separately to the tank, once you go through that Y it's only flowing what one line can flow.

[CJD Automotive]

What did you guys change on the front clip? I see a newly welded in piece.

[CJD Automotive]

Gdub I would get rid of that Y point by the "B" in your drawing and run each valve cover line separately to the tank, once you go through that Y it's only flowing what one line can flow.

I would put a pop off on the valve covers to the tank. Does the same thing, except allows the pump to pull a vacuum on the crankcase until it can't!

This can be plumbing inline to the tank from the valve covers:

http://www.petersonfluidsys.com/engine-vac-OneWayPopOff.html

[71RS/SS396]

I would put a pop off on the valve covers to the tank. Does the same thing, except allows the pump to pull a vacuum on the crankcase until it can't!

This can be plumbing inline to the tank from the valve covers:

http://www.petersonfluidsys.com/engine-vac-OneWayPopOff.html

That's certainly not a bad idea.

[Blake Foster]

What did you guys change on the front clip? I see a newly welded in piece.

took out the bent 1x3 and replaced it with a straight piece to give room for the gussets we added to the lower control arm.

[LS7 Z/28]

It would really be awesome to see detailed photos of what you’re changing suspension wise, so that those of us who have the same suspension are able to see what you’ve come up with as a safe “repair” or change to the front lowers, 3 Link rear, etc. This build thread is sort of the only source that the rest of us might have for ideas and knowledge on what we should do. I understand if you guys can’t share all of it, but anything helps. I personally don’t know anyone to go to that I can trust for a redesign. Thanks again for sharing Greg/Blake.

[gnx7]

I haven't been on here in a while and I was hoping this car would be tearing up the track already! I am blown away (not as much you are Greg) at all the sloppy don't care work that was done by Sutton! From the driveshaft to the engine beat down. At least you are in good hands now and getting it sorted!

It'll be a fun car when V2.0 is finished! At least you found the issues out BEFORE taking it to the track. Scary work!

[raustinss]

are any "fish" plates being welded to the frame as well or ?

[Che70velle]

are any "fish" plates being welded to the frame as well or ?

Wondering the same. I’ve been around a lot of race cars and never seen a front or rear clip without them.

[gofastwclass]

I love all the information shared in this forum overall - especially this thread. I just took a 101 course on dry sump engineering thanks to you guys. Knowledge I'll probably not need but nice to fully understand not just how it works (I already knew this) but what not to do and more importantly WHY.

Thanks for sharing.

[GregWeld]

It would really be awesome to see detailed photos of what you’re changing suspension wise, so that those of us who have the same suspension are able to see what you’ve come up with as a safe “repair” or change to the front lowers, 3 Link rear, etc. This build thread is sort of the only source that the rest of us might have for ideas and knowledge on what we should do. I understand if you guys can’t share all of it, but anything helps. I personally don’t know anyone to go to that I can trust for a redesign. Thanks again for sharing Greg/Blake.


I have no problem sharing anything at all..... and sorry to hear you’re in the same boat knowledge wise. I will repeat this —- I believe in his (Suttons) pick up points and choices of shocks etc..... My older yellow car is a joy to track... and this car was fast given all it’s issues and lack of being able to work on any suspension settings / tire temps etc.... that went by the wayside with all the mop up and repeat....

I think if you scroll back a ways — there’s a picture of the new LCA.... if not we’ll find one.

We (SpeedTech) are taking OUT the “decoupled secret sauce” rear end in favor of a simple 3 link. I think the plan is to also add all the pick up points for SpeedTech Torque Arm - and maybe we’ll be able to do some comparisons and testing etc.

[GregWeld]

What a fuggin mess!
I can confirm that's not 2,000* coating.
I'm really curious what the tune looks like...betting it's "lean and mean"
Kurt will probably throw half of the engine in the trash and start over.

Seems your “half” guesstimate might be on the low side...... LOL

[gofastwclass]

Seems your “half” guesstimate might be on the low side...... LOL

Can you at least keep the valve covers or oil pan? You know it's bad when the valve covers have to go!

Crap, just thought about this... Depending on the PCV setup Mr. Secret Sauce used the valve covers might be on the souvenir list too. :confused59:

Still hoping for the best for you in every way (especially health) GW.

[Blake Foster]

oil pan yes. valve covers NO

[GregWeld]

Can you at least keep the valve covers or oil pan? You know it's bad when the valve covers have to go!



Crap, just thought about this... Depending on the PCV setup Mr. Secret Sauce used the valve covers might be on the souvenir list too. :confused59:



Still hoping for the best for you in every way (especially health) GW.



The Secret Sauced V/C’s were a problem from the get go!! They were leaking from day one.....and I remember thinking — “I’ve NEVER EVER seen a LS motor with leaking V/C’s.... “

If I get them back I plan to take them way out in the desert and add some modifications to them with a 6.5 Creedmoor...... Then I’ll sign them and send one to you!



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[71RS/SS396]

Seems your “half” guesstimate might be on the low side...... LOL

:confused59: :confused59: :confused59: :confused59: :confused59:

[rixtrix1]

Hoping to see more build progress pics soon.

[gofastwclass]

The Secret Sauced V/C’s were a problem from the get go!! They were leaking from day one.....and I remember thinking — “I’ve NEVER EVER seen a LS motor with leaking V/C’s.... “

If I get them back I plan to take them way out in the desert and add some modifications to them with a 6.5 Creedmoor...... Then I’ll sign them and send one to you!



Now THAT's funny!
I'll make sure to never make you angry. :D

[57hemicuda]

What ever Tim says goes on the dry sump, LOL, Kurt and him did more experimenting then probably anybody in the country. I am running factory 2 stage LS7 pump with A.R.E. pan, doesn't make enough vacuum to properly scavenge, so ended up using multiple vent tanks to cure my oil puke issues. Works great but took a while to dial in.

[Tony V]

How you plumb the topend of the engine is really dependent on the scavenge ability of the pump and whether it can maintain vacuum on the crankcase when the engine is wound up. If you can't maintain vacuum when the engine is at max rpm you have to vent the crankcase pressure to somewhere or you're going to have blow-by issues.
I started out with a 3 stage Dailey that made vacuum at idle but with the 4.125 stroke crank I have it couldn't maintain vacuum when we revved it up. I added 2 more scavenge stages, I can now maintain 15" of vacuum at 8,000 rpm and picked up 20 hp. I initially ran it sealed but with street driving I started seeing moisture accumulation in the tank oil cap and the valve covers. I plumbed a -4 line from the drivers side valve cover to the top of the tank to turn the air over and cured the moisture issue.

What I have done with the 3 stage pumps is to run one -12 line from the valve cover to the top of the tank, you can run it to the tank breather but you'll just fill with oil quicker.

Tim, really appreciate you sharing....Greg can't wait to see some progress pics and now that you're down here in sunny AZ maybe i'll get a chance to the missile on track days. love this thread, learning what not to do and how to correct it, unfortunately it came at a cost for Greg, hang in there!

now to my question; I have a 3 stage Dailey and plumbed a -10 from valve covers into my breather line on my 3 ga tank and would usually see accumulation of oil in my breather can that would fill it 3/4 full after a full track day, is that normal?

[71RS/SS396]

Tim, really appreciate you sharing....Greg can't wait to see some progress pics and now that you're down here in sunny AZ maybe i'll get a chance to the missile on track days. love this thread, learning what not to do and how to correct it, unfortunately it came at a cost for Greg, hang in there!

now to my question; I have a 3 stage Dailey and plumbed a -10 from valve covers into my breather line on my 3 ga tank and would usually see accumulation of oil in my breather can that would fill it 3/4 full after a full track day, is that normal?


I would just run a -12 off of one valve cover directly to the top of the tank so you don't keep filling the breather tank. Are you sure you aren't over filling your tank?

[71RS/SS396]

What ever Tim says goes on the dry sump, LOL, Kurt and him did more experimenting then probably anybody in the country. I am running factory 2 stage LS7 pump with A.R.E. pan, doesn't make enough vacuum to properly scavenge, so ended up using multiple vent tanks to cure my oil puke issues. Works great but took a while to dial in.

I wouldn't claim to be the authority on dry sumps. I know what works on the combinations we tested. :cheers:

[GregWeld]

I forget who was asking —- but this is the mod we came up with for the lower control arm (LCA)..... Once we have the specs locked in for alignment — our thinking is we’ll weld this fully and eliminate the bolts that will allow for adjustment.



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[SSLance]

So simple...yet so effective...

[GregWeld]

SpeedTech built partial wheel tubs up front to keep “track debris” from just blowing all over the stuff on the firewall etc..... for those that have never run Hoosiers — you have no idea how sticky they are — and subsequently - how much junk they pick up and hurl!!




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[CJD Automotive]

If you keep taking the dirt track out of this thing, your going to have to rename it... again.

[GregWeld]

If you keep taking the dirt track out of this thing, your going to have to rename it... again.



Agree!!! We’ll have to go from SUTTON DIRTY BUTT MISSILE.... to SPEEDTECH MONSTER MACHINE.... LOL

[LS7 Z/28]

I forget who was asking —- but this is the mod we came up with for the lower control arm (LCA)..... Once we have the specs locked in for alignment — our thinking is we’ll weld this fully and eliminate the bolts that will allow for adjustment.



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Thanks for the photo. Looks like a great idea. Are you guys looking into just using a solid swedge tube with rod ends for the 3rd link, and getting rid of the decoupled setup? I know you talked about the possibility of a torque arm. Would love to see photos when you guys get to that point. Thanks for sharing Greg.

[BMR Sales]

pick up and hurl!!






all these simple mistakes make me want to Hurl!

[GregWeld]

all these simple mistakes make me want to Hurl!




I don’t think they’re “mistakes” — I think they’re INCOMPETENCE

[Blake Foster]

Thanks for the photo. Looks like a great idea. Are you guys looking into just using a solid swedge tube with rod ends for the 3rd link, and getting rid of the decoupled setup? I know you talked about the possibility of a torque arm. Would love to see photos when you guys get to that point. Thanks for sharing Greg.

with the way the exhaust is built right under the drive shaft in a really narrow tunnel i don't see any way to do a torque arm. i would have loved to do a comparison of the 3 link and TA but just don't see a way to make it happen with out TOOO much extra work. This is really not an exercise in creating work only to rectify the issues that need to be fixed.

[rustomatic]

This is just too funny to not quote. I do hope you're doing well, Greg. Here's what's also funny: I've been driving a 1985 BMW 524TD (turbo, yo!) that I recently bought as a result of poor impulse control, and it's bizarro fun . . . So not missile level, but fun in kind of an opposite way. I do hope you're finding ways to have fun in the new year.

Agree!!! We’ll have to go from SUTTON DIRTY BUTT MISSILE.... to SPEEDTECH MONSTER MACHINE.... LOL

[GregWeld]

with the way the exhaust is built right under the drive shaft in a really narrow tunnel i don't see any way to do a torque arm. i would have loved to do a comparison of the 3 link and TA but just don't see a way to make it happen with out TOOO much extra work. This is really not an exercise in creating work only to rectify the issues that need to be fixed.



Good post Blake —- people probably are reading my posts and thinking we’re having to build an entire new car.....

The fact is - if it held fluids - rotated - or was “suspended” or wired —- that’s all getting re-done — and the body is being “massaged” — but we’re not redoing everything — just 70%

LOL

[CJD Automotive]

— but we’re not redoing everything — just 70%

200,000 ways not to build a car...
Having Speedtech build it the way it is supposed to be done and not having every question answered with, "when I owned my 12 race teams and won 200 races...". Priceless.

[Panteracer]

I wanted to do a torque arm on my Firebird but
as Blake states the exhaust is a big factor on
getting things out back and under the car.. Most say they are the best
but I did not want to give up ground clearance and have to do a
rerouting of my 3" exhaust

Glad this car is getting sorted out

Bob

[Blake Foster]

I wanted to do a torque arm on my Firebird but
as Blake states the exhaust is a big factor on
getting things out back and under the car.. Most say they are the best
but I did not want to give up ground clearance and have to do a
rerouting of my 3" exhaust

Glad this car is getting sorted out

Bob

Bob you need to look at our web site we can run 3" dual exhaust out over the housing with lost of clearance and there is no issue with ground clearance "WHEN DONE CORRECTLY"
as with ANY aftermarket rear suspension you WILL have to reroute your Exhaust.

[GregWeld]

A buddy wants the “sauce” (AKA as S * * T) from the DBM..... Despite the fact it was already falling apart... and he was told “I wouldn’t spend the money to ship this junk”..... (not me saying that either).

Remember this car had all of about 30 laps on it —- and this “decoupled offset 3 link” crap is already falling apart.... Gee! Who’d a thunk it!?!?



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[DBasher]

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All I see in that picture, besides secret sauce and failure, is an adjustable camera mount. :sieg:

[GregWeld]

All I see in that picture, besides secret sauce and failure, is an adjustable camera mount. :sieg:

All I see NOW —- is one mans attempt at trying to have others beholden to him..... ie —- S C A M / S H A M / MARKETING

[FaBrycation]

All these pictures of messed up/jacked up/done wrong stuff makes me sick... a guy like me that would love nothing more that to have an opportunity to do it the right way for a good person and to see the level of "don't give a f*ck" by someone to a person in your situation Greg is heart breaking. These stories and proof of the scam artists that are out there make it harder for people to trust builders and rightfully so. It doesn't help those of us that just want to be good at what we do and honest in our work.

I am glad you are in good hands now! the good progess is exciting. I can't wait to see a video of you driving it!

[ScotI]

All these pictures of messed up/jacked up/done wrong stuff makes me sick... a guy like me that would love nothing more that to have an opportunity to do it the right way for a good person and to see the level of "don't give a f*ck" by someone to a person in your situation Greg is heart breaking. These stories and proof of the scam artists that are out there make it harder for people to trust builders and rightfully so. It doesn't help those of us that just want to be good at what we do and honest in our work.

I am glad you are in good hands now! the good progess is exciting. I can't wait to see a video of you driving it!

Well said :thumbsup:

[214Chevy]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190124/cd991039b30f443bdab260ea914396d8.jpg

Hey Greggo...why weren't some nice wheel tubs built like that before by the "Race God?" Nevermind....:lol::lol::lol::lol: Maybe Hoosiers weren't that sticky way back when.

[GregWeld]

All these pictures of messed up/jacked up/done wrong stuff makes me sick... a guy like me that would love nothing more that to have an opportunity to do it the right way for a good person and to see the level of "don't give a f*ck" by someone to a person in your situation Greg is heart breaking. These stories and proof of the scam artists that are out there make it harder for people to trust builders and rightfully so. It doesn't help those of us that just want to be good at what we do and honest in our work.

I am glad you are in good hands now! the good progess is exciting. I can't wait to see a video of you driving it!

Thanks for the kind words Brycen!

I’m just pleased that “mister I built 200 race cars” self imploded.... While I’m 100% positive he will go to his grave telling anyone that will listen, and even if they don’t want to listen - he’ll keep talking — that “I” destroyed his business....

Just like the lie that the “economy” and “sponsors” killed his “I ran 9 race teams” business — when — in fact — it was out right FRAUD and the subsequent lawsuit that aided his demise...

He was given a golden opportunity and couldn’t rise to the occasion.

[GregWeld]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190124/cd991039b30f443bdab260ea914396d8.jpg

Hey Greggo...why weren't some nice wheel tubs built like that before by the "Race God?" Nevermind....:lol::lol::lol::lol: Maybe Hoosiers weren't that sticky way back when.


Well — WTF do you want for a car that cost TWICE as much as a HOWE.....

[Boosted Falcon]

Greg,

So sorry to hear about this nightmare. It is great to hear the car is in good hands and will be on track soon.

[DBasher]

He was given a golden opportunity and couldn’t rise to the occasion.

Fact!

[Lenie]

Aren't you done with this car yet??? Shhhittttt, I'll probably finish my house first! Guess it all boils down to the subs we hire eh. :bigun2::mock::lol:

[GregWeld]

Aren't you done with this car yet??? Shhhittttt, I'll probably finish my house first! Guess it all boils down to the subs we hire eh. :bigun2::mock::lol:

Sutton might be looking for work.... should come cheap too! If he charges what he’s worth.... LOL

[GregWeld]

For those of you who are still Ron Sutton fans..... and think I must make this S****** t up.... I just got these pics from Kurt Urban (Scoggins Dickey Race Shop).

Of course - if asked - Sutton would blame everyone else for the idiot stuff we’ve found on this car.

Remember that HE had his “wiz bang secret sauce optimized” tuner tune the engine while trackside via the telephone.... While I thought they (Sutton and crew) had a data logger and they were just making minor tweaks.... apparently all were clueless boobs.

The top picture is a temp sensor — Kurt says the melted Temp Sensor is a “first”...... meaning — things got pretty hot. Now mind you - the car could only run for 3 laps at a time.... so imagine the damage had it been able to run for a full 20 minutes! LOL


The second is the GASKET on the intake ports — also a first — they’re MELTED.....


And on to the Valve cover gasket — Sutton was told that these V/C’s would not work on the engine - but HE (sutton) insisted they would and refused to pay for the versions that were recommended.... As you can see - the gasket is split.... and apparently (too hard to photo and explain) was sucked in on other places.... GEE!! Maybe someone that knew better than mister “I’ve built 200 race cars” knew better??

Last picture is the newly completely rebuilt LS7 - now with a RHS block and different heads - V/C’s that will work.... and I’m certain that without ANY “Secret Sauce” will run and run and run.... and probably make more power as well. LOL What a joke that guy is!



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[GregWeld]

Intake gaskets





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[GregWeld]

Split Valve cover gasket.....



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[GregWeld]

New NON OPTIMIZED - SANS SECRET SAUCE..... LS7




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[WSSix]

Wall art for the garage!

[thedugan]

I still think you should have brought the car just the way it was to SEMA and put it out for display. Maybe out by the trash dumpsters but still out for display for the world to see...

[kwhizz]

Thanks for "Posting" all this info...….. What a Hack !!!!!

[clill]

Your new engine is leaking oil already........:D

[Tinker]

Your new engine is leaking oil already........:D

:poke: :lol: :smiley_smack:

[GregWeld]

YA GOTTA CUT TO CURE........ BUH BYE THE LAST OF RON SUTTON RACE TECHNOLOGY.....




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[CJD Automotive]

So, did the oil leaks loosened it up or the overheating engine bake it on?

[GregWeld]

So, did the oil leaks loosened it up or the overheating engine bake it on?



“The yellow stain”.......


The vertical stuff fell off.... it was applied so f’n poorly..... the other as you can see - the wind was blowing it off.... LOL

[Musclerodz]

It takes a special kind of stupid to tear an LS valve cover gasket. I'm still trying to make out what they did to the intake gaskets.

[GregWeld]

It takes a special kind of stupid to tear an LS valve cover gasket. I'm still trying to make out what they did to the intake gaskets.



And I present to you a “special kind of stupid”.......




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[214Chevy]

And I present to you a “special kind of stupid”.......




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Now that’s gotta be the best post yet.

[CJD Automotive]

I've seen how the mainstream media can spin a story...

[214Chevy]

This is really getting good now...:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[GregWeld]

I’m thinking it’s close to becoming a different car completely...... let the spraying begin!




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[Try2paz]

Cant wait to see it back together, are you going to run spring spring in May?

I just paid for my room as it's the same weekend as Chico States graduation.

[GregWeld]

cant wait to see it back together, are you going to run spring spring in may?

I just paid for my room as it's the same weekend as chico states graduation.

yes!!

[Try2paz]

I’ve also got a reservation — yes!

I haven’t actually signed the car up yet — but I also still have OY — depending on where DBM is physically - and who knows at this point - that’s the long answer — yes I plan to run Spring Sprint.

i felt like i was just talking to my wife... a simple Yes would have worked :ohsnap:

see you there!

[SSLance]

i felt like i was just talking to my wife... a simple Yes would have worked :ohsnap:




lol...

[jarhead]

I’m thinking it’s close to becoming a different car completely...... let the spraying begin!




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Hot Damn! Going to be a "HAWK" when you are done!

HAWK, Homing All the Way Killer!

Look it up, it's a Jarhead thing, well Army too, lol

:guns: Hunting down the Porsches!

[Flash68]

I’m thinking it’s close to becoming a different car completely...... let the spraying begin!




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1996 Viper Blue would look very nice. :cheers:



i felt like i was just talking to my wife... a simple Yes would have worked :ohsnap:



I think that's how most of us feel when talking to Greggers... :lol:

[gofastwclass]

I think that's how most of us feel when talking to Greggers... :lol:


...but not as cute! :lol:

[GregWeld]

What more can I say........ SpeedTech just killin’ it!!




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[glassman]

Sweet!!! Matching the truck!:lol:

[GregWeld]

Sweet!!! Matching the truck!:lol:



Another step in “stain and stink removal”.......

[OLDFLM]

White with "off-set" Shelby stripes? :poke:

[Matt@BOS]

White with "off-set" Shelby stripes? :poke:

I think that might look kinda cool :lol:

[Flash68]

I think that might look kinda cool :lol:

I'm sure I wasn't the only one who thought of you Matt. :D

[will69camaro]

Stripes probably centered about the drivers position in the car. Bunch of haters...:poke:

[GregWeld]

Stripes probably centered about the drivers position in the car. Bunch of haters...:poke:




I just voted for stripes - if it gets any - that are straight and where they belong (whereever)....


Honestly — I don’t go to bed at night thinking about such things — when I dream — it’s all about the mechanicals.... I’d drive the POS with no body at all, for all I care. :badidea:

[GregWeld]

I just realized I hadn’t updated this thread...... I must be getting old!


Motor dyno’d and is shipped back to SpeedTech already.

This is a proven combination of parts etc — seems Brian Finch - Chris Smith (Smitty) - and I have the same basic motor. Smitty and I have the same exact cams even and his dyno’d the day after mine — Here’s the dyno sheet.


THIS is not the final dyno sheet — it actually made 666.7 when final tuning was done



68464


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[WSSix]

I’d drive the POS with no body at all, for all I care.

Ariel Atom!

Nice dyno numbers, too.

[GregWeld]

The body has been painted — most of the mechanicals re-installed and now waiting on the motor to arrive......

NOTE the nice work SpeedTech did around the taillights — if you remember from my YouTube video about the crappy work on the body that Ron Sutton and crew did.... the taillights were barely even attached (maybe a Sheetrock screw holding them) — and the holes they’d cut looked like they used hedge shears..... WAY BETTER NOW!!



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[Flash68]

I'm guessing this lawn mower engine might last more than a couple laps and might even get you some real Winner stickers one day.

:RunninDog:

[GregWeld]

The obligatory video of the motor on the dyno.......

Remember please — that there was nothing wrong with the motor Scoggins Dickey built for the car (pre-Kurt Urban being there) — it was RON SUTTON RACE TECHNOLOGY that ruined it —- overheated to the point of melting intake gaskets - temp sensors - oil slinging out of it and out of the dry sump etc - and continued to run it until it was hurt. Kurt tossed all the “SUTTON SPEC” crap - we upgraded to the RHS block — ditched the Sutton spec valve train (long story but suffice it to say it was WRONG) — and changed out the heads and cam etc...... NOW it’s a KURT URBAN motor..... Thank you my friend!!!

No leaks - great torque curve - valve covers work with the valve train etc — you know — simple stuff like that! LOL



fxDbmi15W7w

[GregWeld]

I'm guessing this lawn mower engine might last more than a couple laps and might even get you some real Winner stickers one day.

:RunninDog:



Dave is privy to the inside jokes ———— the story behind the “lawnmower motor” is ——- I’d sent Sutton an email — and he responded with a diatribe about everyone and anybody who’s name he could drop - regardless of whether they had ANYTHING to do with the car.....

IF you remember any of his babble ——- he thought Kurt Urban was the greatest engine builder ever — and that Scoggins Dickey was “HIS” motor builder.... nobody could do it better....

After the debacle - in his email response — and I quote “I wouldn’t let Kurt Urban build a lawnmower engine for me”...... Now — Kurt didn’t even work at Scoggins Dickey when my Motor was built - so why he went from hero to zero even faster than a Sutton scud missile is anyones guess...... but I will have t-shirt made —— “LAWNS WILL BE MOWED” —- and I have the address for the first one to be sent out.... feel free to guess. LOL

[will69camaro]

I just voted for stripes - if it gets any - that are straight and where they belong (whereever)....


Honestly — I don’t go to bed at night thinking about such things — when I dream — it’s all about the mechanicals.... I’d drive the POS with no body at all, for all I care. :badidea:

I hope you know I was kidding. Look at my car. Form over function for sure.

[57hemicuda]

Still remember saying to Sutton......You know who your building this car for right? You know what he's going to expect right? I don't think their was one of us that expected what you got.

Poor Blake, its so messy to wipe that secret sauce off that Big Mac, but the finish product will be worth it. Looks good Greg

[GregWeld]

I hope you know I was kidding. Look at my car. Form over function for sure.

I didn’t think you were or weren’t.... Didn’t find anything offensive about your comment at all!


But I’m being dead serious —- I’m really not spending any time trying to make the car something ——— SpeedTech has some good ideas and I’ll let them have their way with her.

[GregWeld]

Stripes probably centered about the drivers position in the car. Bunch of haters...:poke:




Okay — went back and read it a couple more times and then it was a DOH!!! LOL

[will69camaro]

Okay — went back and read it a couple more times and then it was a DOH!!! LOL

:idea::lmao:

[Vegas69]

That's going to make a great motor. My aluminum big block made 666.7 too!

[GregWeld]

That's going to make a great motor. My aluminum big block made 666.7 too!

Yeah!! Dave and I were talking about that when I got the numbers!

Funny - KU texted me that “Smitty bested you by 4 hp”..... at 670...... followed up with “his made 666.9 two pulls in a row but the number scared him so he said to keep working on it”..... HAHHAHAHAHAHA I kind of find some humor in the 666 number.

[Flash68]

What is the bore x stroke of this thing? Still an actual 429" ?

[GregWeld]

What is the bore x stroke of this thing? Still an actual 429" ?

Well — we had to DE SUTTONIZE it —- so went with 4” stroke and a 4.125” bore for 427”

So a guy can choose — 427 FE?? 427 LS — I chose LS

LOL