WELD/SUTTON DIRT MISSILE build

[mfain]

Impressive performance, especially with so few laps on a fresh car. Great job all the way around. Greg, get some rest and fill us in on the rest of the details.

Pappy

[rustomatic]

Boss 429 LS--Love it! I've been wanting to get a blue oval emblem made with "Chevy" in Ford script . . .

This car looks very easy to drive (in the hands of a good driver). It's a stupid question, especially with all the power on tap, but do you fear the ease and precision of the Lotus coming back to haunt (or bore) you?

[1965_SS]

:trophy-1302:

So awesome! My buddy Mickey, who is a NASA instructor, said he talked with you a little bit on Saturday. I wish I could've come out to check it out.
Great job everyone!

[Musclerodz]

Awesome Greg!

[GregWeld]

Awesome to say the least, loved watching that thing on track.

Track backwards or not he is one hell of a drive and smooth!

Congrats to the entire team on a successful weekend.



BENNY MOON FTW!! Jezzzzzzus the man can drive ---- to go out in a new car -- running track that all claimed was super sketchy --- and do the way he did.... I have only the highest of praises for him ---- AND HE'S A GREAT GUY!! AND FUN.

........ I can't stop watching the video


I'm absolutely convinced I can wheel this Beast to a solid 2:08

[GregWeld]

66581

[GregWeld]

66587

[Stuart Adams]

Wow. That car halls balls.

[1965_SS]

Nice pics!

[Tinker]

Love the pics.
It seems a shame to break up the set, they look fantastic together. Kudos to all involved this weekend. Major success.

[jarhead]

those pictures are sweet, sort of like a Glamour shot for cars :king:

[WSSix]

Cars look great, Greg. Really glad to hear the new car is doing well. Enjoy your time out there!

[GregWeld]

Cars look great, Greg. Really glad to hear the new car is doing well. Enjoy your time out there!


Thanks Trey!!


BTW..... these are NOT good investments - so we won't mention it in 102... LOL

[GregWeld]

Boss 429 LS--Love it! I've been wanting to get a blue oval emblem made with "Chevy" in Ford script . . .

This car looks very easy to drive (in the hands of a good driver). It's a stupid question, especially with all the power on tap, but do you fear the ease and precision of the Lotus coming back to haunt (or bore) you?



Did you actually WATCH the video? Is there any way in 7734 that you think it would be boring to ride a rocket? You do have SOUND on your computer?? Turn it up -- watch it again. LOL

[Vegas69]

If this thing doesn't keep you on your toes behind the wheel, you don't have a pulse.

[Ron Sutton]

If this thing doesn't keep you on your toes behind the wheel, you don't have a pulse.

Yup. Actually, even a talented driver like Benny said, "At 10/10ths, this thing is so fast, you have to be 100% focused ahead every second. It's like flying a jet inches off the ground."

[Ron Sutton]

I don't care what the speedo is reading, it was pegged out! What a beast..

The BMW he caught & blew by was the second fastest car in that session. LOL

[Try2paz]

Did you guys make it out to Sonoma for the Shelby event? Any pictures / Videos?

[Stuart Adams]

After watching that video I had to take a nap. LOL. Pooped.

He made it look easy. The good ones do.

[Ron Sutton]

There were only 9 bets in the pool (chickens ?) & the winner is Chris Tremel ! We ran 1:54:78 & one of Chris' bets was 1:53.5.

Chris, you've won your choice of $45.00 or an all expenses non-paid trip to the vacation destination of your choosing.

If it helps heal any wounds to the others that picked times, we did think we were going to run the 3-mile Thunderhill track the "NORMAL" direction. Depending on who you talk to, the normal direction lap times would be 3 to 6 seconds quicker than the opposite direction. I tend to dismiss the 6 seconds & think it's more like 2 or 3. So "maybe" we would have ran 1:51's to 1:52's.

Going the normal direction, as Benny gets used to the car & we trim it out. (I intentionally set it up "tight") I expect the car to run 1:50's here.

The one thing I am clear on, as is everyone there, this track wasn't designed to be ran clockwise. The run off areas, curbing, blind spots, etc make running this track backwards VERY dangerous in really fast cars. The Porsche racers protested & refused to run it that way, it was so dangerous.

[Tinker]

There were only 9 bets in the pool (chickens ?) & the winner is Chris Tremel ! We ran 1:54:78 & one of Chris' bets was 1:53.5.

Chris, you've won your choice of $45.00 or an all expenses non-paid trip to the vacation destination of your choosing.

If it helps heal any wounds to the others that picked times, we did think we were going to run the 3-mile Thunderhill track the "NORMAL" direction. Depending on who you talk to, the normal direction lap times would be 3 to 6 seconds quicker than the opposite direction. I tend to dismiss the 6 seconds & think it's more like 2 or 3. So "maybe" we would have ran 1:51's to 1:52's.

Going the normal direction, as Benny gets used to the car & we trim it out. (I intentionally set it up "tight") I expect the car to run 1:50's here.

The one thing I am clear on, as is everyone there, this track wasn't designed to be ran clockwise. The run off areas, curbing, blind spots, etc make running this track backwards VERY dangerous in really fast cars. The Porsche racers protested & refused to run it that way, it was so dangerous.



My 1:52.2 guess might have covered running normal around the track.
My vacation destination would probably be going to one of your future track days! I know it was work, but that had to be a real hoot!

[65_LS1_T56]

Oh -- I have to be nice to RD --- he's saving my bacon once again by Driving Miss Daisy....


I will be wearing THIS!!!




66520

Thanks Greg! I hope you found the shirt in the back seat of the 4-fiddy...If you'd lay off the Mexican food for a day, it might fit! Lol. I don't blame you though, that Mexican food was amazing.


Thank you again for inviting me out. I'm so glad I came and got to meet the "guys" in person. It was great to spend time with you and compare our cancer stories. Its amazing how similar our days/feelings/emotions are similar even though we have two totally different diseases. Its always nice to hear that you are not alone!


I had an absolute blast. Even with the smoke and ash snowing down...even the heat, because well, it is a dry heat. Ha.


Happy to be part of the inaugural running of the Beast, Missile or New Yeller whatever you call it. Truly an impressive car. And yes, Benny is a machine and a pretty cool guy too. I admired Ron and his team as they pushed thru a few bugs and never gave up. That's awesome. Congrats on 500 Ron.


Keep in mind, I've only met Greg one time in person before this weekend. After spending a few days around him, I can't think of a better picture than this. This is the true Greg Weld. This was on one of our morning Walmart shopping excursions. We had so much fun. #fcancerletsgoracing

[bulldog19]

Good Pic. Keep Fighting Guys!! Having lost my mom to cancer 20-years ago at then young age of 53. Whenever I hear of someone with the disease I always hope and pray for them beat it!
In reading Ron's comments about the danger of the reverse direction and the Porsche guys boycotting what would make them want to run this direction anyway?

[Ron Sutton]

Whoops!

We had Troy Zeigler, from South Carolina, join the pool Friday with a 1:54.4 time that was closest to our 1:54.78.

We'll be sending winning checks to both Troy & Chris.

[Tinker]

Whoops!

We had Troy Zeigler, from South Carolina, join the pool Friday with a 1:54.4 time that was closest to our 1:54.78.

We'll be sending winning checks to both Troy & Chris.
Ron, it's not necessary sending out two checks if he had the winning time.

[DBasher]

It’s always an adventure with this crowd. It’s like the 3 Stooges mixed with the Banana Splits and Curios George and the man in the yellow hat....rarely a dull moment!

Aaron it was good hanging out with you and seeing the look on your face every time you got in or out of OY, did you get the video?

[glassman]

Wow. That was an awesome watch. I'd really like to see CCW. Really liked the part between 11 & 10 (just after the chicane) where u just cant keep the rear tires from spinning under all that power, at least thats what it looked like.
Great to see all that room on the track as well.
Oh, and that sound....the engine and the sequential....like great music.
Too bad Pink Floyd didn't use those sounds on their synth....

[96z28ss]

Thanks Greg! I hope you found the shirt in the back seat of the 4-fiddy...If you'd lay off the Mexican food for a day, it might fit! Lol. I don't blame you though, that Mexican food was amazing.


Thank you again for inviting me out. I'm so glad I came and got to meet the "guys" in person. It was great to spend time with you and compare our cancer stories. Its amazing how similar our days/feelings/emotions are similar even though we have two totally different diseases. Its always nice to hear that you are not alone!


I had an absolute blast. Even with the smoke and ash snowing down...even the heat, because well, it is a dry heat. Ha.


Happy to be part of the inaugural running of the Beast, Missile or New Yeller whatever you call it. Truly an impressive car. And yes, Benny is a machine and a pretty cool guy too. I admired Ron and his team as they pushed thru a few bugs and never gave up. That's awesome. Congrats on 500 Ron.


Keep in mind, I've only met Greg one time in person before this weekend. After spending a few days around him, I can't think of a better picture than this. This is the true Greg Weld. This was on one of our morning Walmart shopping excursions. We had so much fun. #fcancerletsgoracing

Aaron it was great to finally meet you. It was a great time with friends and hanging out track side.

[FETorino]

There were only 9 bets in the pool (chickens ?) & the winner is Chris Tremel ! We ran 1:54:78 & one of Chris' bets was 1:53.5.

Chris, you've won your choice of $45.00 or an all expenses non-paid trip to the vacation destination of your choosing.

If it helps heal any wounds to the others that picked times, we did think we were going to run the 3-mile Thunderhill track the "NORMAL" direction. Depending on who you talk to, the normal direction lap times would be 3 to 6 seconds quicker than the opposite direction. I tend to dismiss the 6 seconds & think it's more like 2 or 3. So "maybe" we would have ran 1:51's to 1:52's.

Going the normal direction, as Benny gets used to the car & we trim it out. (I intentionally set it up "tight") I expect the car to run 1:50's here.

The one thing I am clear on, as is everyone there, this track wasn't designed to be ran clockwise. The run off areas, curbing, blind spots, etc make running this track backwards VERY dangerous in really fast cars. The Porsche racers protested & refused to run it that way, it was so dangerous.



Was the clockwise track direction the only issue you were dealing with?

[96z28ss]

The car photographs well, and is a beast once it got on the track.
The car had some issues that were being dealt with all weekend. Luckily no one showed up that could run as fast. Walking around the pits people would ask if it was ever going to do more than a single hot lap in a session. People wanted to see that thing run.

Its was complete opposite of Greg's other mustang. Old Yellar you just arrive and drive

Hopefully the car is all dialed in for the next outing.

[GregWeld]

It's 9:30 PM and after going to back to the track this morning to confirm some details on my new shed space.... and fussing a bit in the old space -- a nice 12 hour drive and I'm home.


I will post a long and detailed review of the real actual events tomorrow when I can think straight and think about what I want to say.

[Ron Sutton]

Was the clockwise track direction the only issue you were dealing with?

Oh hell no. For me & the crew it was a rough 3 days. Thursday after Greg drove the car around the block at Randy's shop ... at speeds we won't mention here ... the throttle quit responding. We loaded anyway & went to the track. So Friday morning at the track we spent hours figuring out what the cause of the problem was. Before we accurately diagnosed the harness I had ordered two throttle bodies, harnesses & other stuff from Summit in Reno & had it "Lyfted" to us at the track in Willows, CA. 3 hours & $400 will be the answer to some questions asked here.

After we got the harness reworked & car running, the first session on track was cut short from oil blow by out of the Dry Sump breather. For anyone not there, there was a cloud of smoke that would come out. This problem haunted us all 3 days. We got it "reduced" enough on Saturday to where we could make a warm up lap & run 2-3 hard, fast laps before it reared its head. But it never went away & won't until we change the system.

We also had a cooling issue. We run a C&R extruded radiator with a heat exchanger built in to cool the engine oil. The engine got hot quicker than it should have. This amplified the oiling issue & the oiling issue amplified the cooling issue. So the crew had to do a routine of clean off the dry sump vent, any excess oil & cool down the car after every run. Friday's test day was brutal. Not good. And not the way the car should work or will work, once I get it fixed. Saturday & Sunday were "better." The crew & I never quit, so we toughed it out did what was necessary to run the best we could each session of the NASA weekend.

We did miss a session each day as well. The missed session on Saturday was to repair a broken shock mount from where Benny got off track after the bypass. This required the shock mount to be rewelded on & braced. Thank goodness there was a good shop there to fix that, or we'd have been done. We missed another session Sunday, dealing with burnt starter wires. (Engine bay was very hot).

The car was crazy fast, but it's not correct yet. The RSRT stuff I designed, like the chassis, suspension, brakes, 3rd Member & engine combo all worked well. Some of the things I just buy, also worked good, like the PPG Sequential transmission, QuarterMaster clutch & X-ineering "no lift" shift controller. But the ARE Dry Sump system had serious issues that were frustrating as Fu#$. So was the C&R cooling system. Both of those companies have awesome records of great products. But the systems they recommended that are "currently" on Greg's car did not work well at all. Gotta be fixed.

So back at the office, I'll be working with the cooling experts at C&R & the dry sump gurus at ARE to figure out what's wrong & make whatever changes are needed to Greg's car & future Track-Warriors. After we figure out what changes are needed to the dry sump system tank/plumbing/venting & cooling system, we'll bring Greg's car back to Randy's shop & make those upgrades/corrections. Well before it runs again. Frankly, we'll probably go test just to make sure the cooling system & dry sump vent don't have any issues & work as they should before going to another event.

At this time, the car is NOT plug n' play. Rob, I didn't want you to take me not posting a story with details as "all was great." I did want to announce the pool winner. As you know, it was rough. But we toughed it out & got a couple TTU wins which are really a testament to the car's capabilities & the crews perseverance. But we still have work to do.

[GregWeld]

Oh hell no. For me & the crew it was a rough 3 days. Thursday after Greg drove the car around the block at Randy's shop ... at speeds we won't mention here ... the throttle quit responding. We loaded anyway & went to the track. So Friday morning at the track we spent hours figuring out what the cause of the problem was. Before we accurately diagnosed the harness I had ordered two throttle bodies, harnesses & other stuff from Summit in Reno & had it "Lyfted" to us at the track in Willows, CA. 3 hours & $400 will be the answer to some questions asked here.

After we got the harness reworked & car running, the first session on track was cut short from oil blow by out of the Dry Sump breather. For anyone not there, there was a cloud of smoke that would come out. This problem haunted us all 3 days. We got it "reduced" enough on Saturday to where we could make a warm up lap & run 2-3 hard, fast laps before it reared its head. But it never went away & won't until we change the system.

We also had a cooling issue. We run a C&R extruded radiator with a heat exchanger built in to cool the engine oil. The engine got hot quicker than it should have. This amplified the oiling issue & the oiling issue amplified the cooling issue. So the crew had to do a routine of clean off the dry sump vent, any excess oil & cool down the car after every run. Friday's test day was brutal. Not good. And not the way the car should work or will work, once I get it fixed. Saturday & Sunday were "better." The crew & I never quit, so we toughed it out did what was necessary to run the best we could each session of the NASA weekend.

We did miss a session each day as well. The missed session on Saturday was to repair a broken shock mount from where Benny got off track after the bypass. This required the shock mount to be rewelded on & braced. Thank goodness there was a good shop there to fix that, or we'd have been done. We missed another session Sunday, dealing with burnt starter wires. (Engine bay was very hot).

The car was crazy fast, but it's not correct yet. The RSRT stuff I designed, like the chassis, suspension, brakes, 3rd Member & engine combo all worked well. Some of the things I just buy, also worked good, like the PPG Sequential transmission, QuarterMaster clutch & X-ineering "no lift" shift controller. But the ARE Dry Sump system had serious issues that were frustrating as Fu#$. So was the C&R cooling system. Both of those companies have awesome records of great products. But the systems they recommended that are "currently" on Greg's car did not work well at all. Gotta be fixed.

So back at the office, I'll be working with the cooling experts at C&R & the dry sump gurus at ARE to figure out what's wrong & make whatever changes are needed to Greg's car & future Track-Warriors. After we figure out what changes are needed to the dry sump system tank/plumbing/venting & cooling system, we'll bring Greg's car back to Randy's shop & make those upgrades/corrections. Well before it runs again. Frankly, we'll probably go test just to make sure the cooling system & dry sump vent don't have any issues & work as they should before going to another event.

At this time, the car is NOT plug n' play. Rob, I didn't want you to take me not posting a story with details as "all was great." I did want to announce the pool winner. As you know, it was rough. But we toughed it out & got a couple TTU wins which are really a testament to the car's capabilities & the crews perseverance. But we still have work to do.







No..... no, you won't be doing anything with the car because as you know - you were FIRED. I will post why, in detail, in the morning when I have time.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I love how ALL of your threads just go right off the deep end!!! too funny

man, understatement of the year. :underchair:

[GregWeld]

#1 ---- I don't want anyone being misled and doing business based on "what Weld is doing". My associations and choices shouldn't be seen as a tacit endorsement until I specifically say so.... and if I can not say that.... you all know how brutally honest I will be -- whether it's about investing or building or... anything.

#2 ---- I do not, and will not, ever "do harm" to someone or someones business, without having good reason. The internet can be your friend -- it can also be your undoing. I am not a keyboard warrior or flamer.

#3 ---- I will not ever "cover up" or "gloss over" in an effort to save my own ego. If something is good - I'll be the first to share - But I will never be the guy.... (think back to PRODIGY/FRANK) that people talked about for a couple of YEARS, and yet wouldn't post/share what they knew - therefore continuing the pain for OTHERS. Had the first people that got screwed by Frank spoke up - many other people wouldn't have been harmed. Man up - be honest - and help others avoid what happened to you.

[GregWeld]

I'm not a "car virgin".... I've built many, and have had a few built. Nobody understands the trials and tribulations better than I do. The fact that I can actually do all the work, and have done the work myself.... makes me rather unique. I understand how much TIME things take to do -- I understand the billable hours.... I understand the pitfalls and mistakes. I've made them. I try to make them only once... and I'm not afraid to yard it all out and build it over.

I'm also a 34 year member of AA -- ownership of your problem is a big deal. Honesty is even a bigger deal. Not doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity....

The building of this car was based on a couple simple premises. I wanted a fat tired car with a sequential shift.

I wanted to help Sutton and SpeedTech (by having them build the car). Something they both could point to and use it to help their businesses etc.

Unfortunately Blake (@SpeedTech), who has been a great personal friend for many years now, could not build the car fast enough for my tight schedule. Nor were they willing to build it for the price Sutton was willing to pay (this has NOTHING to do with me - it's between Sutton and whomever he contracts with). If you go to the catalog and order a car -- there are choices listed. Since SpeedTech was listed as one of the choices of builders.... Naturally I choose them! They've built race cars - they ARE racers - They are suspension and chassis people... they run LS motors.... Jay is a hot shoe driver... I can kill two birds with one stone -- and help TWO friends at the same time! What could possibly go wrong?

Since SpeedTech couldn't do the build (Blake and I talked A LOT about why he couldn't, and what I could do extra $$$, to get what I wanted and have them build it). Alas it was not meant to be -- So Sutton chose "the builder". Naturally HE chose his old racing buddy and employee. Fine. It eliminates one of my goals -- but the ultimate goal is to get the car built before I croak. I do have terminal cancer.... and liver issues.... I've been given my own "deadline" (see what I did there?). I live with the daily realization that tomorrow I could wake up and days away from death. When and if this crap metastasizes..... I'm toast.

Dates and times were discussed. The track was rented. The date was movable given enough notice... maybe.... and if it wasn't? So what -- I'd eat the track rental and make another later date. Many times during the build -- the date was questioned and I was assured with a "no problem" response. Awesome! This is going to be so much fun I can hardly stand it!!

Make no mistake -- this build was a RUSH job. But if you take that job on KNOWING it's a rush job... and you wave your hand and say "I got this" --- and tell stories about how you've built whole cars in a week.... Okay -- Let's roll with it.

NOBODY builds stuff for me without ample money available. I pay in advance. I try to HELP a person/business by doing this simple thing.... and I do so knowing I'm paying out the rope. I also let the builder just do their thing. If I'm asked to make a choice - that choice is made right then - and it's not changed. I got to choose the body - tranny - motor power level - wheel design - gauge package. Those choices were made when we (Sutton and a couple other buddies) walked PRI in December of 2017.

June 28th was the track date.

I was then told this was going to be "tight" and was I okay with not having the body done and chassis powder coated etc. We agreed that was fine - that could be accomplished afterward. No biggie. I get the see the car on track - and frankly - not having the car "finished" could work out to be an advantage should we want to change something.

THAT DAY WAS THE CLUSTER F FROM HELL...... the car was nowhere near ready to roll -- and we finally got to the hotel at 2 AM -- and up at 7 to hit the track. Remember that I'm old and not healthy (at that time) and this was especially hard on me. No biggie -- push thru -- have fun! No bad days! Well -- this was a badder day.... LOL. The car wouldn't fire -- looked like crap -- puked oil -- and barely made any laps. It was not only a very expensive "test and tune" day money wise -- it was also just a gigantic waste of time.

After that day --- I spoke at length with Ron about expectations - dates - and what my goals were and why. The doctors tell me I'm dying - soon - and I don't have time to waste. I made that clear - and Ron and I are friends first - and he knows all of this. I was assured this wouldn't happen again... and another date was agreed on. There are many folks involved in these dates. Rons schedule - the builder - Benny Moon (driver) and crew/mechanics etc. There are rooms to be reserved and fees to be paid and on and on. It ain't that simple. But it all worked out. Kinda.

Back up a bit --- because I want everyone to understand the basis for all the decisions and dates etc.

At PRI we walked the show and discussed build quality expectations.... I could have ordered a complete car from about a dozen different companies that week. Some of which are offered in Suttons catalog. Some of which I wouldn't walk across the street to look at and some where SEMA quality builds. My understanding was "not like this" (horrible) but more like "this" (a 20 footer - typical race car stuff) and "it's a race car not a SEMA car". Remember I'm a guy that pit crewed for glass bodied cars in the early '70's. I've owned other race cars... drag and road race.... I'm not some clueless boob from Turniptown.

At the JUNE 28th test and tune --- we had what I would call "severe" oiling (dry sump) and electrical issues. From the very first lap -- this A.R.E. system puked it's guts...... and LS motors DO NOT leak from the valve covers. THIS SHOULD BE YOUR FIRST CLUE THAT SOMETHING AIN'T RIGHT...... DOH! A simple thing like the battery not being charged is a typical "dropped the ball" deal... okay - deal with it - go buy a charger and let's move forward.... but in the meantime we're wasting valuable track time -- and my time.... The day was so disappointing that I considered cutting my losses right then. But that's not the way I work.... and I've been thru this kind of stuff before so let it go.

The decision was then made to attempt to run NASA at THILL -- rather than the same weekend -- spending time with my buddies running Sonoma at the NorCal Shelby club NATIONALS.... I have a garage at Thunderhill with tools and air and lift and tire guy next door... so if we needed stuff - it was there. I expected to NEED all those things. Been here -- done that -- expect crap to happen.

Read Rons post for details what happened for THREE DAYS STRAIGHT. SAME PROBLEMS -- SAME RINSE AND REPEAT.

What does that say? Nobody bothered to understand what was happening with the oiling system.... and the car was completely disassembled and put back together by the builder. At that time - before it was made "pretty" - any wire routing or heat issues etc should have been addressed. We'd already done a dress rehearsal.

There was two months to address the oiling system. Pull the motor - get it on the dyno - do some basic testing and involve the ARE people etc and sort it !! If all this costs extra -- okay. Just do it - I build stuff Carte Blanche! Maybe this is my downfall??

[GregWeld]

So in a nutshell.....

The oiling system problem was completely preventable with a few phone calls or a quick internet search --- TWO MONTHS AGO WHEN YOU KNEW YOU HAD AN ISSUE. Dave found the issue discussed add-infinitum in one simple search. Ron Schwarz knew the fix and the issue the minute Aaron Oberle texted the him.

The electrical issues (there should never be ANY electrical issues if you have any clue about wiring stuff at all.... period)..... all self-inflicted. Bad planning on your part does not constitute an emergency for me (or something like that). LOL

We (Sutton/Randy/Greg) discussed the "fit and finish" in detail. Many excuses offered... more rope paid out.... expectations defined. At the time I was told that "Randy" wanted more money to finish the car properly. I bristled at the mere suggestion of this -- I ordered a catalog car. Period. The price is listed - the options selected. All paid for in advance. All Sutton had to do is deliver the product offered for the agreed upon price. To me - and I told Sutton this directly -- "it's a test" -- lets see if you can really build this stuff.... If you can, it should be really good for your business. I love to help people. It's my daily goal.

The REAL ANSWER IS ........ No he can't. Save yourself the BS and just buy a car from a real builder. There's a ton of them - one trip to PRI and you'll realize this should be easy if you choose the right company. $200,000 gets you just about any race car in this class. This is a tube chassis - glass body - LS motor car with a fancy transmission and big tires. Big whoop. It ain't rocket science.

I wanted to do this project to help a friend - have some fun - and with what he'd done with Old Yeller -- this was going to be absolutely OUTSTANDING.... <sprinkle fairy dust here>.

I spent 24 hours after the weekend - cleaning the sh!t show in my shop - and a 12 hour drive home.... alone..... deciding what to do - what to say - holding my buddies back from posting - because I knew the end result was to destroy a friendship and loose my corner man... but the larger issue for me is to make many friends and save them from the quicksand. If I say there's quicksand in the field -- and you choose to walk there anyway -- Oh Well..... I followed the Yellow Brick Road and I must pull the curtain back. I owe this to myself and to the community we are. We're brothers in arms and we should protect each other first.

I have an 8 minute video that needs to be reviewed before posting on YouTube -- 8 minutes or so on nothing but the body and wrap... on a $200,000 race car. LOL -- you'd have to see it in person to believe it. Last night I thought of what I was going to say to make you understand what is going on here.... so here goes.

You and your buddies are in a dark smokey bar -- across the way sitting at the bar with her back to you is a shapely blonde in tight baby blue t-shirt and tight blue jeans..... You send her a drink and hope for the wink.... your buddies are egging you on and you're setting it up --- drink arrives and she turns around to wink and nod thanks -- but SHE is an IT --- and IT is a 75 year old toothless drag queen that's seen a bit too much Coppertone.....

Yes... you are doing your thinking with the wrong part.... and in an instant, you went from hero to zero and the ribbing and joking and beatings shall continue for years to come..... "hey! There's a blonde buy her a drink!" UGH...... it's life and those are the memories we make -- and this body and wrap job are far worse than anything I could photo or explain. Just think -- on track - bad ass blonde haired blue eyed..... but the reality is far different. I'm not even sure it's salvageable.

[GregWeld]

I remember building the red '32 at Steve Frisbee's..... and all the stupid - beyond stupid - issues with it..... and then talking with other builder buddies etc and AFTERWARD they all say ---- OH HELL -- HE'S NEVER BUILT A CAR THAT RUNS AND DRIVES.....

Why AFTERWARDS do you tell me the truth..... why not say so beforehand -- we're friends for gods sake -- give me a nudge and a heads up.

That is what I'm doing for you all...... Heads up! Talk to folks you know that are on the receiving end of waiting for info after the fact - waiting for "fixes" - waiting for product. Sad. It coulda all been so different. Say what you're going to do - do what you say you're going to do. I never bought bullsh!t and excuses and blame (read his stupid post blaming everything and taking NO OWNERSHIP). Go sit in the back of a couple AA meetings --- much applies here.

I'm stressed to the max --- I don't need stress -- it's not healthy. I don't have TIME -- I don't do excuses. I should have listened to my bride of 39 years and fired him in June. I might have recovered the project and had some fun and a running driving car this time around.

Oh to be sure -- it runs like a raped ape..... it's low -- it's mean -- it's also a One Lap Wonder ---- as the NASA official referred to it..... damn it! She will forever be referred to as that. Guys will talk in the pits ---- hey! Remember that one lap Mustang?? It could run a 25 hour enduro later -- and all they'll talk about is "the one lapper". Oh - here comes ol' one lap....

The only reason it could "win" (was never the goal).... was because BENNY MOON is a wheel -- and he could take the pile out for three laps and roast it..... most could never do that!! I'll forever be grateful for his skills, because I got to witness the potential of my mail order bride. I hope to live long enough to see it fixed correctly and run even harder.... and I'd like it to be sorted enough for me to make a 3 minute lap in it. Aaron and I know how tentative the future is.....

[jeds]

Thank you for your candor Greg.

I'm confused...has a LS based track warrior never been constructed before? Oiling and cooling solutions don't seem like something that you should be best-guessing on for turn-key customer cars.

I guess I would have assumed some level of test-and-verify before putting something in a catalog.

[GregWeld]

Thank you for your candor Greg.

I'm confused...has a LS based track warrior never been constructed before? Oiling and cooling solutions don't seem like something that you should be best-guessing on for turn-key customer cars.

I guess I would have assumed some level of test-and-verify before putting something in a catalog.



Yes -- that is what a guy would think... and be lead to believe.... the Wizard is a wizard at SUSPENSION AND BRAKES..... Man does he know how to make something handle.... and driver coaching.

Running an actual business takes a little more than that. If this was merely a one horse accident -- we wouldn't be having this conversation. I can assure you this is the tip of the iceberg! So many victims. I'm even more angry that I've lead my friends into the swamp. It stops NOW!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Yes -- that is what a guy would think... and be lead to believe.... the Wizard is a wizard at SUSPENSION AND BRAKES..... Man does he know how to make something handle.... and driver coaching.

Running an actual business takes a little more than that. If this was merely a one horse accident -- we wouldn't be having this conversation. I can assure you this is the tip of the iceberg! So many victims. I'm even more angry that I've lead my friends into the swamp. It stops NOW!

Stick to what you are good at and hire good where you are lacking. If you cannot do that, stick to what you are good at.

[GregWeld]

stick to what you are good at and hire good where you are lacking. If you cannot do that, stick to what you are good at.




66601

[Stuart Adams]

Greg you are a stand up guy. Helping others and protecting the field is an awesome quality.

[GregWeld]

#1 ---- Sutton is the absolute MASTER at suspensions

#2 ---- What he did with Old Yeller is beyond comprehension --- you'd have to drive it to understand.

#3 ---- I have heard only 100% positives about products from SPEEDTECH and RIDETECH etc. Please DO NOT LUMP THEIR PRODUCTS AND SERVICE IN WITH this debacle.

#4 ---- The Beast handles like WOW!!! AMAZING....... so chassis and suspension.... are stellar..... Please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater

[Blake Foster]

man, understatement of the year. :underchair:

seems this is now taken out of context.
it was posted a while back and was in reference to all the joking and funny **** that was being talked about. reposting it now was not the intent of the original comment.

[Ummgawa]

Holy Smoke Greg. I was so stoked talking to Aaron about the “event”. Sucks out Loud. You’re a good man Greg, Illigitimi Non Carborundum...

[GregWeld]

Just to be sure..... this is NOT ABOUT ME..... or this particular project!!

It's about all the people I'm hearing from that haven't gotten parts -- they've gotten the wrong parts -- they're waiting MONTHS for parts -- in some cases a couple years!! WTF!! A couple have abandoned their projects because of it.....

I don't care who you are --- that's just wrong! Just so so wrong!

I sincerely apologize to all who have been wronged because I feel like some of you probably did business with him because of me. THAT IS WHAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TO ME..... to get this out in the open so nobody else is going to have these issues!

I'm not on Pro-Touring.com or Facebook etc..... but this is a tidal wave of people just on this one site (Lat-G). I would hope that people speak up on these other places if they know what going on.

[WSSix]

I'm not sure what's taken a turn faster, the car or this thread.

...and I probably shouldn't crack jokes at this time.

I'm sorry to hear about the troubles, Greg. I hope it can be fixed easily so you can enjoy it.

[GregWeld]

I'm not sure what's taken a turn fast, the car or this thread.

...and I probably shouldn't crack jokes at this time.

I'm sorry to hear about the troubles, Greg. I hope it can be fixed easily so you can enjoy it.



My stuff will be fine -- I have ample means and friends that will sort thru it. I'm not concerned about me at all ----- I'm concerned with those that are screwed over getting the wrong stuff - never getting stuff - and all the other "wrongs". I don't know how a guy could function or sleep at night knowing he's done so many people wrong. Amazing to me -- I'd have never ever thought it!

[Paraman1]

I am deeply saddened to hear all of this Greg. I was living vicariously through you to a certain extent watching this car get built and flogged on the track. In the videos I noticed smoke billowing through the cab and thought it must just be race car ****. You and Aaron are my heroes in many ways persevering through devastating health issues and living your dream to the extent that you still can. I am so sorry that this dream didn't work out the way you planned and that you wound up with much less than you paid for.

[GregWeld]

I am deeply saddened to hear all of this Greg. I was living vicariously through you to a certain extent watching this car get built and flogged on the track. In the videos I noticed smoke billowing through the cab and thought it must just be race car ****. You and Aaron are my heroes in many ways persevering through devastating health issues and living your dream to the extent that you still can. I am so sorry that this dream didn't work out the way you planned and that you wound up with much less than you paid for.


Thank you. But seriously guys --- this is not about the cost to me -- I've got half what Lillard has, and that makes me a rich man. My friends here aren't so lucky. They work hard for their money - and building this crap is hard enough and takes too long -- then to also be screwed on parts and months of waiting.

How does a man live with himself doing this? I've never understood why they don't think this is wrong - or that they won't be "caught". You rob Peter to pay Paul..... you end up with a sore peter.

I've had a couple short mails from him --- and there's ZERO ownership. He's so sick in the head that he still thinks this is ONLY about the Beast!! What?!?!?! REALLY!?!?!?

I think he used me as a pawn to dupe everyone else. Now I wonder how many of the parts on my car -- you all paid for by not getting your stuff..... But he knew he HAD to do right by me -- or he'd be staring at what has now come his way.

Again -- I'm absolutely sick over this. Literally! I feel I'm responsible..... but then all these folks are PM'ing me their stories ---- and I think ---- For christ's sake -- why didn't you say something!!! But we all know - hope is eternal.

I HOPE he mans up -- comes clean --- and starts over. Just like rehab.... you can get a second chance. But I also agree with others that say a Leopard doesn't change it's spots. I think that is probably closer to the truth.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

seems this is now taken out of context.
it was posted a while back and was in reference to all the joking and funny **** that was being talked about. reposting it now was not the intent of the original comment.

I know that but it seemed to have aged appropriately. It was merely a rogering and nothing meant by it. :D

[chetly]

Sorry this happened to you Greg.


He wouldn't have been my first choice in car builder. But, the last time I recommended someone other than him on this site I was called a FanBoi and chastised by many people that were sucking on Sutton's teat. I wonder what that response would be met with today?!

[GregWeld]

Now --- Let's be clear here -- it's a race car.... and I'm really not all that upset with the body stuff -- I just wanted to document for others -- what they can expect for their money should they decide to take the plunge.

Enjoy! I know I did!



VwPCd1Io3CI

[DBasher]

I usually try and live by something I heard along time ago; Not my pig, not my farm. It’s helped me stay away from quite a bit of bull**** though the years...unfortunately I’ve also had it drilled into my head, When you see something, say something. So I’m going to say something.

The car in pictures and out on track looks great, no doubt. But seeing the car for the first time Friday was a huge shock and honestly a big disappointment. It took one 5 minute walk around to realize this wasn’t going to be a car Weld or Ron could “show off” and be proud of. How could you be?
No bodywork, sanding scratches seen through the wrap, wrap joints that overlapped and created a darker yellow, the wrap pulled so tight in areas that it created a different shade of yellow, the windows that don’t lay in correct and have a bulge or deformed area, taillights that look like they’re held in with a screw, maybe two and shake when the car moves....and the hood stripes that are so in your face crooked...it’s embarrassing. Ron should be embarrassed to let this quality, or lack of, ever leave a shop.
You’ll notice I didn’t say anything about the gaps or alignment of panels. It’s a race car and everyone understands that...that being said, I’ve seen farm equipment with better panel fitment.
The body is a wreck and a HS auto shop could have done a better job putting it together.

Now on to the problems. I don’t know anything about LS motors so I can’t and won’t comment on the “breather blow by”....F it, yes I will. Dude, that’s not blow by, that’s a motor losing half a quart of oil in 4 minutes of hard charging on track...#becauseracecar? I don’t think so. The clean up wasn’t a quick wipe down it was more like a FEMA response team in Valdez Alaska. All over the freshly coated exhaust, on the floor inside the car...that bitch puked like a freshman at senior prom...every time out! Maybe we should check the valve cover gaskets...again. Fawk man!

The cooling issues. Again I don’t know anything other than what I’ve read...and what Ron has posted. To recap some of the threads- Air comes in the front and exits out....well if you’ve paid attention or been to any track event to dump the engine bay heat you go out the front fenders or put vents in the hood. On this turd, where is the air exiting? Ron posted that the engine bay “is really hot” ya think? It’s not vented anywhere. An air to fluid heat exchange doesn’t work unless you’re actually moving air, think about it.

The only other issue I’ve got, from what I saw, was the complete lack of accountability from Ron. Instead of owning the faults the buck was and still is being passed. It’s been implied that Welds crew (aka friends) were the reason for the thread taking a turn. Nah dude, the car being built and mismanaged poorly is why all of this is coming out. Sad really.

[96z28ss]

It’s been implied that Welds crew (aka friends) were the reason for the thread taking a turn. Nah dude, the car being built and mismanaged poorly is why all of this is coming out. Sad really.

I hope that's not being said. We saw the car in person. This had to be addressed sooner than later.
Yes Weld had a few of his friends at the track. $hit we were excited to see it. I personally walked around the car and was like WTF. First thing I noticed was the bad wrap job. Then it was the stripes not being straight and the right side stripe covering the peak. After everyone left on Sunday we took a tape measure to see if it was the stripe or the peak was wrong. It was the stripes.

The car had issues all weekend. However we put chairs outside the shop and sat around in between every session. We let Ron's team do all the work and made sure to stay out of his way.
It was hard to just sit around and watch the guys do the same thing over and over. The same issues over and over.

Watch the August 4th track video on Youtube. Look and the passenger side floor notice the color at the start of the video. Look at all the electronics on that side. Fast forward to the 6 minute mark. Watch the oil start to soak everything. by the 8 minute mark the oil is sloshing back and forth. There are expensive electronics there and it just got soaked.

This thread took a turn, but its because it had to, not because his friends decided to.

[Build-It-Break-it]

This is all so sad to read.. I guess you definitely cannot go based on pictures. That video of the car was just embarrassing to have even delivered to a customer.

I remember when I posted about my issues with Scott mocks subframe being junk a few people contacted me calling me a liar or made excuses for what was built for me. Some people reached out and said I got scammed too. I told them the same thing SAY SOMETHING THEN.

Well fast forward and one of those same people posted about losing money from Scott mock. Sad it happened but I warned people. I got flack for posting about a "valued " member ,but I felt I did what was right.

Hopefully this will all get sorted and names and reputations will be saved. No matter how rich or poor you are it sucks to loose money but worse yet your barrowed time.

Much respect for you posting this Greg.

[DBasher]

Watch the August 4th track video on Youtube. Look and the passenger side floor notice the color at the start of the video. Look at all the electronics on that side. Fast forward to the 6 minute mark. Watch the oil start to soak everything. by the 8 minute mark the oil is sloshing back and forth. There are expensive electronics there and it just got soaked.

This thread took a turn, but its because it had to, not because his friends decided to.

I never noticed this but watching again that’s a bit more than “blow by”.
You can just about register the G’s by the amount of oil on the floor.

[73CPCAMARO]

Greg,

your heart and money had the best intentions, but the other side failed. It sucks and I feel horrible for you. I am sure it hurts to have to post this, but your courage to do the right thing shows your character. Best of luck moving forward.

Miss hanging with you Greg!

Brian

[GregWeld]

Greg,

your heart and money had the best intentions, but the other side failed. It sucks and I feel horrible for you. I am sure it hurts to have to post this, but your courage to do the right thing shows your character. Best of luck moving forward.

Miss hanging with you Greg!

Brian

Love you buddy! Hug Steve for me!

Was missing my little "Miata" the other day -- thinking how simple I could have kept all this.... Old Yeller - the Nat (Lotus) - and the perfectly set up Miata you built.... it was such a hoot to toss around!

As all know here -- I've cut the traveling and doing a lot of the fun stuff because I just haven't been "well" and or I've been so stoned I can't walk!! LOL

Gwen doesn't mind driving me to and fro -- and my other friends have filled that vacuum as well (me not driving)..... Thank god for my friends!! I'm feeling better and seem to be doing better..... so maybe I'll pick up the pace a bit and start doing more events. I'm not sure if it's my age or a combo -- but this stuff takes a lot of effort these days. UGH.

[Vegas69]

Wowzer, what a pile....:bang: There is no way that thing should have been on the track.

The good news, if you can get it mechanically sound, it's the perfect candidate to beat the snot out of and appears to have a solid chassis.

[Panteracer]

Greg,
It takes a lot of effort to do these things now a days
I am about the same age as you and know this well
I have been thinking that for the last several years myself
Not feeling well does not help but your mind is still working
to figure this and that out but sometimes the body can not
keep up to all we really want to do

It has taken me a while to figure it out that if it stops being
fun to do because of deadlines or too much all at once I just
push it off to cut the stress etc.. We have nothing to prove
and we really are doing this because we enjoy it

The thing I like about the cars if you need a break you can
just walk away for a little bit... I say a little bit because we
really cannot leave them alone for very long (our sickness of
having to play with them)

Hang in there buddy.. you will be back at it shortly and if
anybody can figure it out I know it is you.. just sorry to hear
about you and Ron

Bob

[rustomatic]

I withheld commenting on this as long as possible--I actually lost sleep over it last night. There are serious legal issues here, but with the evidence present, holy crud. In most parts of the United States, you can by a pretty darn nice house for $200k. That thing represents a serious lack of . . . patience.

It sounds like somebody didn't realize that baffling must be in place in valve covers, especially with a serious dry sump system; without baffling and a legit catch can and breather setup, you have a valve cover-based oil fountain. Not only is this a bottom level mechanical f-up, it's a massive safety hazard. We have guys here who work on oil rigs who've undoubtedly seen bad oil-related incidents (massive fires) first hand . . .

Air flow--somebody should have taken a look at the TA2 ducting system for the radiator setup . . . or a Corvette.

Best of luck in getting this sorted. Hopefully, it will serve as some sort of lesson/cautionary tale for those who wish they could pay for such a thing.

[Peter McMahon]

One day at a time Greg. Invite some buddies over to work on the car and see if you can find some enjoyment in it [beer]. I'm Canadian, so if I'm helping I'll just bring my own! [the good stuff]. Seriously though, try and step back and review what will bring your stress level down and follow that path. I always enjoy reading your posts and views on life.

[mfain]

I too have been reluctant to comment. I like both parties involved but, in my opinion what began as a cheerful, good faith effort, was overcome by the realities of trying to build a complete, finished race car (a prototype of sorts) in an unrealistically short period of time. I certainly feel Greg's pain and he has fulfilled all of his obligations in this contract. On the other hand, the most important part of the car (the chassis and suspension) seems to be rock solid and is the basis for a very fast car. There are perhaps design issues that need to be dealt with (airflow for cooling, for example) and Ron needs to work with his suppliers to sort out the engine oiling and cooling issues. He owes these things to his customer. The body is your typical aftermarket piece that needs 2 months and $10K worth of work to bring it up to Greg's standards. Proper bodywork was not possible in the time allocated for the build, so it got a hurried, cheap wrap to make an appearance at THill. Unfortunate, since it gave the impression of a less-than-professional effort. The car really needed another (or perhaps multiple) test and tune to work out the bugs - not at a NASA competitive event. Hopefully Greg and Ron can work out an equitable solution that will benefit both. Best of luck.

Pappy

[Ron in SoCal]

In so many ways I am sad to read this post. A person's car, expectations, physical / emotional / mental health, not to mention safety, rise and fall with these builds.

I hope all parties can find a way forward to a resolution and internal peace at some point.

Mostly, I hope Greg is with us - keeping our heads and hearts straight - forever.

[GregWeld]

One day at a time Greg. Invite some buddies over to work on the car and see if you can find some enjoyment in it [beer]. I'm Canadian, so if I'm helping I'll just bring my own! [the good stuff]. Seriously though, try and step back and review what will bring your stress level down and follow that path. I always enjoy reading your posts and views on life.



Thanks Peter!!

Hey -- back in the day --- like 44 years ago -- I used to run to the border and bring home a carton of Export A's.... LOL and some 222's !!

Moosehead FTW !!

I'm no longer stressed ---- I've let it go ---- now just having some fun burying the SOB so he can't do this to others..... my new "life's goal". A man needs goals.... this one is a bit easy but what the heck. He hung himself -- I'm just sharing the lynching so we can all live and learn. There's usually more to learn from things like this -- than if it'd been all perfect.

EH!

[Vegas69]

That's good to hear! It's just a pile of bolts in the grand scheme...

Make the best of it my friend!

[Peter McMahon]

Thanks Peter!!

Hey -- back in the day --- like 44 years ago -- I used to run to the border and bring home a carton of Export A's.... LOL and some 222's !!

Moosehead FTW !!


EH!

“Moose head for the win”. Come on now, let’s keep this thread serious. Rolling Rock FTW

[GregWeld]

I too have been reluctant to comment. I like both parties involved but, in my opinion what began as a cheerful, good faith effort, was overcome by the realities of trying to build a complete, finished race car (a prototype of sorts) in an unrealistically short period of time.





The time frame was agreed to well in advance and I was assured that while it would be tight --- it was no problem. Ample discussions all along the way about making dates etc ensued - and at each step of the way - there was a "no problem, we got this". And then a half hour of stories about how they built cars in a weekend..... In other words -- lots of stories -- not much substance. They'd NEVER built a car like this.... I knew that and expected all manor of teething pains. This IS NOT MY FIRST GOAT RODEO.





I certainly feel Greg's pain and he has fulfilled all of his obligations in this contract. On the other hand, the most important part of the car (the chassis and suspension) seems to be rock solid and is the basis for a very fast car.



MAYBE....... but I'm hearing from people that know more and have had nothing but issues with this particular design.....




There are perhaps design issues that need to be dealt with (airflow for cooling, for example) and Ron needs to work with his suppliers to sort out the engine oiling and cooling issues. He owes these things to his customer. The body is your typical aftermarket piece that needs 2 months and $10K worth of work to bring it up to Greg's standards. Proper bodywork was not possible in the time allocated for the build, so it got a hurried, cheap wrap to make an appearance at THill.



NOT FACTUAL ------ The car was supposed to be completely done JUNE 28th --- I allowed it to be done body in white etc for testing -- because I was far more concerned about the mechanicals and set up. There was no info vacuum here --- We (Sutton/Randy/Greg) had lots of phone calls and emails about dates. It involves many more people to make these dates..... and all was planned well in advance.

The car was run body in white --- then was to be disassembled and coated and wrapped..... but PRIOR TO THAT --- we/they KNEW of the oiling issues. NOTHING WAS CHANGED / FIXED..... This is INCOMPETENCE not bad planning on my part.

I was willing and able to make date extensions. It's just a track day -- not a funeral and not a 4th of July show..... Everything was subject to change at a moments notice. No biggie.




Unfortunate, since it gave the impression of a less-than-professional effort. The car really needed another (or perhaps multiple) test and tune to work out the bugs - not at a NASA competitive event. Hopefully Greg and Ron can work out an equitable solution that will benefit both. Best of luck. Pappy



Yes Greg and Ron have worked out an equitable solution --- HE and all his friends are FIRED.... never to see this car again. His name and any and all association with him are zero'd out. Zero F's given. Pappy -- I hope you're not just another victim. Because it sounds to me like you're still a Sutton fanboi. You would not be if you knew all the dirty sordid details. And you should be on the receiving end of the texts, PM's, and emails I've recieved. YOU would have a much deeper understanding of this guys business. It's worse than you can imagine.

[GregWeld]

“Moose head for the win”. Come on now, let’s keep this thread serious. Rolling Rock FTW

I guess that's a problem for a guy that's been an AA member since he's 31 (now 65). The boys on the bus (NYC 4th of July crew) always drank Rolling Rock and refused any other type. I stand corrected!

[GregWeld]

That's good to hear! It's just a pile of bolts in the grand scheme...

Make the best of it my friend!


I've said that about many many projects --- They can all be fixed. I'm in a bit of a hurry... perhaps... and all know why. Makes all of this all the more painful. I've got plenty of skills plenty of money plenty of friends willing to jump in and help....

The car is in Cali --- my friends are all over the world.... it takes TIME to make sh!t happen.... and then it's WINTER..... and perhaps a season thrown away. For me --- winter --- skipping possible dates --- fussing with fixes --- is all a giant drain on my energy and at any moment -- that hour glass can be empty and there's not a dang thing I can do about it.

In the meantime --- I'm working on fixes and who's going to do what..... it ain't over til the fat man drives this POS and it all works as advertised.

[Rmt]

MAYBE....... but I'm hearing from people that know more and have had nothing but issues with this particular design.....

In the meantime --- I'm working on fixes and who's going to do what..... it ain't over til the fat man drives this POS and it all works as advertised.

Hopefully you'll continue to update this thread, as solutions are reached for the various issues.
e.g., I got a Peterson dirt late model oil tank, to try to deal with the projected venting problem: http://www.petersonfluidsys.com/drysumpoiltank-special-DLM.html

This thread is a goldmine of information for the rest of us with trackwarrior projects.

[GregWeld]

Hopefully you'll continue to update this thread, as solutions are reached for the various issues.
e.g., I got a Peterson dirt late model oil tank, to try to deal with the projected venting problem: http://www.petersonfluidsys.com/drysumpoiltank-special-DLM.html

This thread is a goldmine of information for the rest of us with trackwarrior projects.



I will for sure my friend! You know -- I've got nothing else to do but blab with my friends all day --- and we'll learn together -- what I know - you'll all know. It's how roll. LOL I'm not the wizard behind the curtain -- I'm like the dumb tin man and the heartless lion.... and we're going to take care of this in the end

[preston]

>MAYBE....... but I'm hearing from people that know more and have had nothing but issues with this particular design.

Curious about this. I learned more practical knowledge reading Ron's threads on here in 1 week than I learned in 15 years of reading books/internet and building myself.

So I drank the kool-aid hard. But I had a reasonably positive experience with Ron Fall 2016. I ordered a suspension design workup. He told me up front it would take a while so I waited and he did deliver after a few months, and then I had some changes and he did an update for me fairly quickly. This was a workup using his basic philosophy but somewhat constrained as I was adapting it to an existing chassis. When I could get him on the phone he was very very helpful. And every part I ordered showed up fairly quickly, although I didn't order anything too exotic or custom (I built or sourced those myself because I am impatient and experienced). So overall It was somewhat positive, but after 20 years at this hobby I'm also very attuned to certain subtle and not so subtle red flags, so I was glad I wasn't too dependent on him.

The car drove better than ever when I was done but I 've been burnt out for some time and I sold it before it saw serious track time (I need to write that thread).

However I still feel like his suspension design and philosophy make total sense so I'm very curious if others dont' feel the same way. Dusold certainly seems to have had success with his design.

[GregWeld]

Curious about this. I learned more practical knowledge reading Ron's threads on here in 1 week than I learned in 15 years of reading books/internet and building myself.

So I drank the kool-aid hard. But I had a reasonably positive experience with Ron Fall 2016. I ordered a suspension design workup. He told me up front it would take a while so I waited and he did deliver after a few months, and then I had some changes and he did an update for me fairly quickly. This was a workup using his basic philosophy but somewhat constrained as I was adapting it to an existing chassis. When I could get him on the phone he was very very helpful. And every part I ordered showed up fairly quickly, although I didn't order anything too exotic or custom (I built or sourced those myself because I am impatient and experienced). So overall It was somewhat positive, but after 20 years at this hobby I'm also very attuned to certain subtle and not so subtle red flags, so I was glad I wasn't too dependent on him.

The car drove better than ever when I was done but I 've been burnt out for some time and I sold it before it saw serious track time (I need to write that thread).

However I still feel like his suspension design and philosophy make total sense so I'm very curious if others dont' feel the same way. Dusold certainly seems to have had success with his design.



NO --- MIKE DID EVERYTHING OVER AFTER TWO COMPLETE FAILURES.... I've been texting and on the phone with Mike just today over it. We're also cancer buddies..... He has nothing "Sutton" on his car. When he said he would tell about it -- Sutton threatened to sue him. So they agreed to go their separate ways.

ME -- I say HEY SUTTON -- you know where I am --- SUE ME ASSWIPE..... I'll own your house!

[GregWeld]

In fairness to GOOD SUPPLIERS --- Sutton designed some pretty cool stuff --- and people like SpeedTech and others have had great success with it -- but they build, and design, and test their stuff!!

I'm only taking issue with RON SUTTON RACE TECHNOLOGIES as a supplier and answer man. And only AFTER so many people shared their stories did I decide to go public.

If you want a bad ass high tech sub ---- The SpeedTech stuff seems to be absolutely outstanding. I wish now I'd insisted THEY build my car. I can assure you I would have been a very happy man right now. I should have stood my ground when I had the chance.

[Blake Foster]

Thank you Greg

I feel that the design and performance of our subframes and chassis are the top of the Line. We did all the design EXCEPT the geometry on the front suspension, which Ron did and I think you are starting to see some pretty well built competitive cars out there now. we all know how long these can take to be completed.
This whole thing is sad
If any one has any questions about that subject i will do my best to answer them as fully as I Can.

[Rmt]

NO --- MIKE DID EVERYTHING OVER AFTER TWO COMPLETE FAILURES....

What failed on Mikes design?

The suspension did work great on your beast, yes?


Full disclosure:
I purchased a “Full Frame, Suspension & Cage Design Package + TRS & Brakes”,
on 4-30-2014.
I have experienced poor communication at times,
Wrong (non fitting) parts, and long delays.
But—
Ron has always been up-front about being slow on reply’s and deliveries,
aways came up with solutions as problems came up,
and made good on issues with parts.
Yes, it’s taken a long time,
To the point I lost interest in the project for some time.
I still feel Ron’s knowledge, and ability to produce a great handling chassis, out of the box, to be a great value (for me).

But my situation is very different,
I have far more time than money.
I just paid for a design (and expected a few bugs),
not a turn-key product, within a guaranteed time-frame.

[jarhead]

Thank you Greg

I feel that the design and performance of our subframes and chassis are the top of the Line. We did all the design EXCEPT the geometry on the front suspension, which Ron did and I think you are starting to see some pretty well built competitive cars out there now. we all know how long these can take to be completed.
This whole thing is sad
If any one has any questions about that subject i will do my best to answer them as fully as I Can.

I've been working with Jay on a torque arm for my Torino since maybe March. In fact I think he figured out the hard part, I just sent pictures and measurements. He has everything under control, I am not concerned...

I am still a customer for this system even though I have only put a down payment on it. My health degraded this year, daughter is getting married in a few days, allot of things have changed in my life.

Count me in on believing on your business and products. Nothing in the thread would sway me, and I am pretty sure none of it's intended too.

Hopefully I will be fulfilling the order in January (when I retire) and am healthy again. I've been keeping Jay updated.

I am really looking forward to the purchase, and there are allot of people in the Torino community waiting to see it installed. Well maybe not FE Rob so much since he has the RS stuff, but I know he's rooting for me. Someone has to finish a Torino on here :lmao:

EDIT:
By the way of all the rear suspension vendors not one has followed through to help me until I spoke to Jay W.
Not a single vendor was interested in helping me with a custom torque arm. I talked to them all, not kidding.
That speaks volumes to your company and it's dedication to the community. I have spoke to them all and was ready to just get some shi### leaf springs and move on with my project.
Thanks,
Joe T. from Fort Collins, CO

[Jtomas801]

First off, sorry Greg that you have to deal with all this bs, especially with everything else going on right now. And thank you for bringing all these issues to light.

I have been through this before (but much, much smaller scale!) with a previous forum member/vendor and his C6 subframe that I had to basically trash and start over. Which stalled my project big time and I just had to step away from it for a few years. I only own a Sutton Front TA and rear GT frame section so far, but no suspension pieces yet as I am buying as I go along.

My personal experience with Sutton so far has been good, but seems every time I check this thread, things seem to get worse :/ I hope he gets things straightened out quickly. But now I need to figure out how to proceed with purchasing the rest of the pieces I need.

Anyway, the car does look pretty badass in the pics! It seems like you have a pretty good base to work from and I am sure you will get the car where you want it, just unfortunately more time and money than should be required. Thanks again for putting this out there.

[Matt@BOS]

After talking back and forth with Rob all weekend, I’d say you’re a pretty patient man, Greg!

If there’s any good news, it’s that you have a ton of friends in the industry, and a handful of them have very professional shops that can get you and the car back where you’d like to be!

Now if I may, I’m going to give a shameless promotion for a friend and say that you need to give JJ a call when it’s time to get your car back out on track!

[glassman]

Greg,
first of all i'm sorry this happened to you
second, i'm sorry about the friendship gone sour
I am shocked, surprised and saddened.
I do not like excuses. My car got screwed the last two years because of two bad subs, the work was good (well, very very decent), but i missed out on so many events.

Like ELO said in that song when they sang backwards, "You can rewind this music, but you can't rewind time". Thats what truly hurts....

cheers my friend, see u in Utah. 5 weeks(ends)

[mad68rs]

Greg,

I don't really know you, but we most likely share some friends in common (I worked for GM as an engineer).

I feel for you after reading your experience. He put you in a tough situation. I think you did the right thing.

I am originally from the Sacramento area and raced circle track on a well respected team in the area. I'm not completely surprised by your dissatisfaction. I had heard some things while working/racing. I believe his latest venture is at least his 2nd or 3rd attempt at something. So I don't believe your experience is limited to the circumstances. Kind of makes me feel bad in a way also for not saying anything, but you can only do so much based on your experience with someone.

I'm sure you will get the shipped turned in whatever direction you choose. I hope you stay in good spirits and health.

P.S. Not trying to dog pile, just meant to reach out in support.

[GregWeld]

Woke up this morning feeling pretty good about finally shooting this asswipe in the head. Slept all night and never thought about him or the car.

It's just a car -- I have others -- and this one is a series of simple fixes. Takes some time and costs some money. I'm not worried about it, or me.....

WHAT I WORRY ABOUT IS YOU GUYS --- and the "vendors" that can/could take fallout -- and that's not right. I can afford this financially. My time is a separate issue, and unknown, and we don't dwell on that.

I want you guys to go out and BUY FROM THE GOOD GUYS out there --- support them -- there are MANY!! The SpeedTechs and the RideTechs and the UMI's and pick a name...... Don't let one bruise destroy the apple..... switch your orders from SUTTON -- call your credit card companies and reverse the charges -- get angry - warn your friends - post crap on his Facebook or Instagram....... and then move on --- support this site and support the great vendors -- bring your troubles to the surface and lets help each other to move forward.

I can assure you if you're waiting on a "tech support" call from him for months and months --- or that crap part that didn't fit or was welded wrong.... don't wait for a SUTTON fix -- there are people and vendors here that will help you. Call or email 'em and move forward with them. They'll all know what's going on and I know most all of them personally --- they'll pick up the phone and call you back and ship on time.

Here's something of interest -- I'd have never thought about it. My buddy Basher wants a Butler seat -- SUTTON tells him "5 weeks" --- He (schmart little feller that he is) calls Butler -- they say "7 to 10 days". So if you're waiting on something from the dickhead ------ call the actual supplier and ask them.

[CamaroAJ]

Wow this derailed quick. I always enjoy reading though your build threads, Greg. Sorry this happened to you.

Reading though all that happened and remembering the Prodigy problems from a few years ago two things stand out to me with both. Both parties talked a lot about how wonderful they were and how awesome their work is all the time. Something you don't see from other builders that seem to have very few problems like Iron Works, Roadster Shop, Speedtech, ect. Their builds always speak for themselves. The other thing I noticed is both advertised free tech support just a phone call or email away and you didn't ever have to buy anything from them. How do you have time to get anything done if you're doing that?

[GregWeld]

Wow this derailed quick. I always enjoy reading though your build threads, Greg. Sorry this happened to you.

Reading though all that happened and remembering the Prodigy problems from a few years ago two things stand out to me with both. Both parties talked a lot about how wonderful they were and how awesome their work is all the time. Something you don't see from other builders that seem to have very few problems like Iron Works, Roadster Shop, Speedtech, ect. Their builds always speak for themselves. The other thing I noticed is both advertised free tech support just a phone call or email away and you didn't ever have to buy anything from them. How do you have time to get anything done if you're doing that?



It actually didn't derail quickly --- it started for me on June 28th..... with a sh!t show of epic proportions...... and THEN the emails and texts from victims started showing up. And in fact --- it SHOULD HAVE STARTED long ago -- but I was blinded by the OLD YELLER car..... and it's success. When I go back and review ------ I'm on a text train with 6 other guys -- for 5 years or whatever it's been ---- PK never got specs etc for his 3 link set up -- still waiting for this simple info -- Gaetano got bad shocks and bad info -- Rob bought parts - that didn't work correctly and was supposed to get the parts to make them work right -- took MONTHS..... and I got the shaft.... that's 4 out of 7 --- the other 3 saw this train wreck coming and alluded to it -- but the rest - like you guys walked straight off the cliff like lemmings.

I don't like being a lemming. I will fix it. It being the person responsible.

[dhutton]

Sorry to read of everyone’s troubles.

On a lighter note having never met you Greg it was entertaining for me to put a voice to the face while watching your video. Greg, you don’t sound at all like I had in my mind... :lol:

Take care and I hope you are back up and running soon,
Don

[71RS/SS396]

What a sad state of affairs that we're reliving the Prodigy debacle again!

[Try2paz]

First off Greg sorry to hear this happen to you, and thank you for bringing this to light for others.

The positive news is you still have the 65 and depending on how things are shaking out on the big car lets make sure to get some events lined up this year together..

Black Friday Laguna is 102DB day!! and then October at T-HIll

or if you want to do a track rental day let me know I'll pay my $$

Secondly the whole automotive industry lacks integrity. The sh** that's been pulled on my personal cars for years makes me sick.

In my professions you would be out of business quick but somehow these leaches and cockroach shops continue on robbing people.

Case and point I went to the "classic car" specialty shop in my town to have FI-Tech installed on my Nova. It's not difficult and time permitting id do it myself. I get the car back with what was described as "light detonation" and the Fi-Tech needs to learn. I jump on the gas and holy cow I got a full rattle can of marbles under the hood.

I take the time to investigate I pull the disti which needs to be locked out (it's super simple pull disti, flip the advance to lock out and remove springs etc). I take it apart nothing was done. I call the shop that did the install and ask them point blank did you guys lock out the disti per the installation guide. Their reply of course we did.. a straight lie to my face and that was the last time they ever saw my $.
The Fi-tech was adding timing onto of my mechanical advance of 18 I'm lucky I didn't loose a motor it shot up to 50+ all in advanced.

Nate

[DBasher]

Here's something of interest -- I'd have never thought about it. My buddy Basher wants a Butler seat -- SUTTON tells him "5 weeks" --- He (schmart little feller that he is) calls Butler -- they say "7 to 10 days". So if you're waiting on something from the dickhead ------ call the actual supplier and ask them.

A little more to it. I sent Ron my measurements and inquired about a seat the first week of July and it took weeks to even figure out if my Sasquatch like figure would fit in a “tall” or if I needed a custom build. Once it was determined I needed a custom they had the money the following day.

The ONLY reason I didn’t cancel the order was Butler already had my dimensions laid out and we’re moving forward...it’s a slow part of the season for them and they were on top of the order in a matter of 4 days- 2 of those being a weekend. Kudos to Butlerbuilt!

After this seat and bracket deal I’m done with RSRT.

[DBasher]

And another issue since I’m coming clean. The call to Butler was suggested by a friend who will remain nameless...mostly because I can’t come to grips with giving Dave praise for anything 😂

Thanks to Greg I’ve met some really, really good people from this site, folks I consider good friends and I’m pretty sure have me going in the right direction most of the time.

🇺🇸🦅

[GregWeld]

And another issue since I’m coming clean. The call to Butler was suggested by a friend who will remain nameless...mostly because I can’t come to grips with giving Dave praise for anything 😂

Thanks to Greg I’ve met some really, really good people from this site, folks I consider good friends and I’m pretty sure have me going in the right direction most of the time.

🇺🇸🦅



You do know how fast I can change that....... right?

[DBasher]

Uh yea, duh.

But why would you? I’m not a liar or crook and only an asshole most of the time. Lol

[GregWeld]

Uh yea, duh.

But why would you? I’m not a liar or crook and only an BIG asshole most of the time. Lol



Fixed it for ya......



:lmao::buttkick:

[Spiffav8]

Thank you Greg

I feel that the design and performance of our subframes and chassis are the top of the Line. We did all the design EXCEPT the geometry on the front suspension, which Ron did and I think you are starting to see some pretty well built competitive cars out there now. we all know how long these can take to be completed.
This whole thing is sad
If any one has any questions about that subject i will do my best to answer them as fully as I Can.

Blake you have nothing to worry about. Speedtech turns out nothing but high end, quality products. Additionally the customer service is second to none. Speedtech has a solid reputation that was earned by doing things right.

Speedtech equipped cars are dominating the autocross course these days proving the product works, is well built and dependable.

[DBasher]

Fixed it for ya......



:lmao::buttkick:

That’s it, the wedding that was never on is definitely off!

:sieg: :lol:

[Ns RS]

Sorry to read of everyone’s troubles.

On a lighter note having never met you Greg it was entertaining for me to put a voice to the face while watching your video. Greg, you don’t sound at all like I had in my mind... :lol:

Take care and I hope you are back up and running soon,
Don


Fake vid, His normal voice actually sounds like tiny Tim.

Vendor/member feed back thread is a great place on lat g to post recent or current transaction experiences.

Describe and Rate any recent or current transactions good or bad and it can serve as a resource for those lat g members about to engage in a transaction.

Transparency is always good and it gives the vendors or members an opportunity to rebuke or fix any problems that may have occurred vice versa - tough part is to post even after getting burned but doing so just helps everyone else out so kudos to Greg for doing so.

My limited experience with vendors has left me top notch transactions with dse and forgeline - highly recommend both to all

[Winmon]

Really sorry to hear you are dealing with this Greg. Messed up deal, REALLY messed up....Hope you are able to get everything sorted out in a quick manner. Your question on "I don't know how a guy could function or sleep at night knowing he's done so many people wrong. Amazing to me -- I'd have never ever thought it!" is a great question. THANK YOU for standing up and getting this experience out there in hopes others may be saved from dealing with it themselves.

[GregWeld]

I have a plan for Dirt Missile...... Leaving tomorrow to drive back to Cali (12 hours) and drag her to a few more hours for a full damage assessment.... Motor comes out and goes back for full rebuild after 30 laps.... don't care if it's hurt or not - I suspect every square inch of the car now..... did I get what I paid for.... are they really the parts as spec'd.... is the suspension worth keeping or is it scrapped for "more normal" or graft a SpeedTech sub to the front now... IDK -- but we'll find out and just move forward ASAP.

Thank you to ALL OF YOU - (and you know who you are) - that have come forward with advice, and support... THIS IS THE REAL COMMUNITY WE HAVE.

[waynieZ]

It makes me sick to see all this going on. You go with what's supposed to be the best and have the same problems a second time that could have been avoided. I hope this next plan goes better and quicker then it has gone so far.
Drive safe and keep us in the loop.

[mfain]

I have a plan for Dirt Missile...... Leaving tomorrow to drive back to Cali (12 hours) and drag her to a few more hours for a full damage assessment.... Motor comes out and goes back for full rebuild after 30 laps.... don't care if it's hurt or not - I suspect every square inch of the car now..... did I get what I paid for.... are they really the parts as spec'd.... is the suspension worth keeping or is it scrapped for "more normal" or graft a SpeedTech sub to the front now... IDK -- but we'll find out and just move forward ASAP.

Thank you to ALL OF YOU - (and you know who you are) - that have come forward with advice, and support... THIS IS THE REAL COMMUNITY WE HAVE.

Greg,

Don't forget the "baby and bathwater" scenario with a hasty reaction. A 1:53 (in the correct direction) by a Porsche GT3 was an extremely fast time at a recent NASA event. Your car could have run that, even with its growing pains. You recently said this in one of my threads:

"I'm not a suspension "guy" --- frankly -- I could care less about it. I have a guy that knows a guy that knows a thing or two about that stuff.... so I can keep my pretty little head as empty as possible...."

and Blake posted this in this thread:

" I feel that the design and performance of our subframes and chassis are the top of the Line. We did all the design EXCEPT the geometry on the front suspension, which Ron did and I think you are starting to see some pretty well built competitive cars out there now."

I'm not being a "bois" - just pointing out that Ron is a master at suspension geometry, and if you are going to make changes you need to make sure you get advice from someone as equally qualified - or you will could up with a slower car. Just my $.02 worth.

Pappy

[GregWeld]

Pappy ----- ONE (of the many) epiphanies I had trackside this last weekend ---- there were 200 cars there -- all running hard and fast and having fun. I had a crew of 4 -- So called Masterbaiter -- so called car builder -- so called mechanic and so called electronics man..... EVERYONE ELSE WAS RUNNING JUST FINE....This group couldn't get 3 laps per session and not make other sessions.

The thing that makes me smarter than the average guy --- I know I can build - maintain - run - set up - adjust -- with other guys. There's no magic in this. It's not new. It ain't even special. What it will be going forward - is sans bullsh!t.

IN other words -- there's zillions of people that know more, and will be in my corner at the drop of the proverbial hat.

Let's start a list of seeing hands --- I pay $3,000 per weekend plus expenses.... all you have to do is be honest - have a clue - and keep your mouth shut about "me, myself, and I".










Greg,

Don't forget the "baby and bathwater" scenario with a hasty reaction. A 1:53 (in the correct direction) by a Porsche GT3 was an extremely fast time at a recent NASA event. Your car could have run that, even with its growing pains. You recently said this in one of my threads:

"I'm not a suspension "guy" --- frankly -- I could care less about it. I have a guy that knows a guy that knows a thing or two about that stuff.... so I can keep my pretty little head as empty as possible...."

and Blake posted this in this thread:

" I feel that the design and performance of our subframes and chassis are the top of the Line. We did all the design EXCEPT the geometry on the front suspension, which Ron did and I think you are starting to see some pretty well built competitive cars out there now."

I'm not being a "bois" - just pointing out that Ron is a master at suspension geometry, and if you are going to make changes you need to make sure you get advice from someone as equally qualified - or you will could up with a slower car. Just my $.02 worth.

Pappy

[Matt@BOS]

Greg, when is the 2019 track tour starting?

I told Rob I'd make a couple tracks, and I want to see you lap him in the Dirt Missile.

[RECOVERY ROOM]

😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳

[96z28ss]

Greg, when is the 2019 track tour starting?

I told Rob I'd make a couple tracks, and I want to see you lap him in the Dirt Missile.

We would all like to see Rob get lapped by the DM.
Greg has cameras so we would get good view of it happening.

[Merritt5]

Greg,

I've been lurking on this thread and watching this build.

Thank you for stepping up and sharing your experience with us.



Merritt

[GregWeld]

Greg, when is the 2019 track tour starting?

I told Rob I'd make a couple tracks, and I want to see you lap him in the Dirt Missile.



It's started when I dreamed up this concoction!! Ordered a new truck from Rydell -- worked on designing a new trailer so I could haul us both.... Rob started on his comp license as did I..... and then I stepped in dog Sh!t.

So we're waiting on The Mayo clinic to tell me I'm done or that I beat this **** again - or something in between.... and then it's game on or we're all going to my funeral. Racin' or pushin' up daisies...... Semantics.

[mfain]

You'll get through this, Greg. You are way to ornery for this to get the best of you!

Pappy

[GregWeld]

You'll get through this, Greg. You are way to ornery for this to get the best of you!

Pappy

A candle that burns real hot -- can light the way -- or be used to burn your ass, if you tip it over.

Right now it's in burn the house down mode.

Then rebuild.

[thedugan]

Wow this build and thread went in a direction I never saw coming.

Does seem like Prodigy all over again.

Kinda hope it all works itself out and thats not the case.

[Matt@BOS]

It's started when I dreamed up this concoction!! Ordered a new truck from Rydell -- worked on designing a new trailer so I could haul us both.... Rob started on his comp license as did I..... and then I stepped in dog Sh!t.

So we're waiting on The Mayo clinic to tell me I'm done or that I beat this **** again - or something in between.... and then it's game on or we're all going to my funeral. Racin' or pushin' up daisies...... Semantics.

This year did suck for you guys. You stepped in dog sh!t and Rob's dog stepped on his eye. You better be able to lap a half blind man. Hoping next year is MUCH better!

[Build-It-Break-it]

I just noticed Rons vendor section is no longer there? Sad if he goes silent and doesn't try to repair all of this.

Are you going to post in the feedback section Greg so others don't have to search for this information through your car build? It would give Ron an opportunity to resolve this if he was going to. I still can't believe he's gone silent this long.

[Flash68]

I just noticed Rons vendor section is no longer there?

Ron Sutton Race Technologies was removed as a vendor by Lateral-G.

[chetly]

Ron Sutton Race Technologies was removed as a vendor by Lateral-G.

Was he removed as a person from the site as well? He's been a ghost since this all came down. Not even ONE post trying to defend himself. Guess that goes to show his character.

[GregWeld]

This year did suck for you guys. You stepped in dog sh!t and Rob's dog stepped on his eye. You better be able to lap a half blind man. Hoping next year is MUCH better!



Sometimes even your best intentions aren't rewarded.....




I just noticed Rons vendor section is no longer there? Sad if he goes silent and doesn't try to repair all of this.

Are you going to post in the feedback section Greg so others don't have to search for this information through your car build? It would give Ron an opportunity to resolve this if he was going to. I still can't believe he's gone silent this long.




No I'm not --- since nobody else did either - and that's EXACTLY how this crap gets perpetuated. I've done enough heavy lifting.





Was he removed as a person from the site as well? He's been a ghost since this all came down. Not even ONE post trying to defend himself. Guess that goes to show his character.




Maybe he's busy shipping and catching up? Let it play out.

[Flash68]

Was he removed as a person from the site as well?

He still has a regular user account... his vendor status and ads were revoked/removed.

[FETorino]

This year did suck for you guys. You stepped in dog sh!t and Rob's dog stepped on his eye. You better be able to lap a half blind man. Hoping next year is MUCH better!

Lap seems like a big ask. I don't see it happening. Even out of one eye. :popcorn2::popcorn2:

[FETorino]

Wow this build and thread went in a direction I never saw coming.

Does seem like Prodigy all over again.

Kinda hope it all works itself out and thats not the case.

IDK about Prodigy that was theft, but it's worse in some very personal ways.

The betrayal of commitments made to Greg and the lack of respect for Greg, as a friend battling a terminal diagnosis, should make anyone, with a soul, sick to their stomach.

Greg was providing a platform for Ron to showcase his entire business. Remember Greg was not just a customer but a friend who payed all the bills forward. Does everyone realize that capital and the ability to generate Cash flow is paramount to getting a business off the ground?

Imagine if you had a friend willing to help you catapult your business forward and didn't ask for anything more than the product you were selling; At a price higher than what you would eventually sell that product for; NOT a discount.

You'd screw that friend over by wasting some sand in his draining hourglass right? Makes me want to throw up thinking about it.

On one hand Greg makes me want to believe there is good in people.

On the other hand after watching Gregs scenario play out (and some dealings with a few friends on the forum have experienced; not theft, just disrespectful treatment of them) Ron reminds me to put my trust in my dogs.

Everyone on here is an adult. Decide for yourself who to do business with and take care of your own issues like an adult.

[jlwdvm]

I had been following this build and even asked a few questions along the way because I thought I could use the info in my build. I haven't dumped $200K into my '69 Firebird, but I did buy brakes, seats, harnesses, and info from Ron. I have to say, that I am small beans compared to some of the people that Ron deals with (ie Greg Weld), but he always seemed to give me great advice and service. He even went to the lengths to loan me pressure gauges (for free)when I was dealing with a brake set up issue. He was also available via talk/text when I was figuring things out.
That being said, I am also a business owner that has to deal with online reviews. I don't get into public online arguments with clients because it looks bad and is a no-win situation for me and my business. Hopefully Ron will make things right, but I don't expect to hear much about it initially (at least on an online forum).
This build took a turn that reminds me a lot of online dating. The last woman I went out with looked smokin' hot in all of her Facebook pictures. I mean, to the point that I thought she was going to be the best looking woman I had ever gone on a date with! With much anticipation we finally met in person. Let's just say that the years haven't been good to her and all of the filters a woman can use on her pictures can work miracles!!! The video that Greg posted about the build quality of his car make me look like Chip Foose!

[GregWeld]

Rob's (FETornio) post sums up the situation 100%......

I could have bought a brand new Porsche Cup car.... I could have bought a Howe with all kinds of upgrades.... I could have bought any number of well sorted designs. We weren't forging new ground here.

Go to a track -- on any weekend there are 100's of other guys doing this and doing it faster and better.

I didn't need any new cars. I built this to satisfy two desires -- to help a friend and to get a car with a sequential. My other three cars would not tech for NASA TTU or even HDPE. Simple fixes that would take two weekends and some rattle can touch up.

I chose, instead, to let a man stand on my shoulders so he could put his nose over the wall... I chose poorly - my head told me just to order a car from an outfit like Howe - that's all they do - would have been over the top for a track day toy.... and is a proven platform..... But that didn't satisfy the "help a friend" part of this ordeal.

THAT IS NOT ALL THAT TRANSPIRED HERE ---- There's all the other folks that came forward that changed everything for me. So many people who have also had their hopes and dreams hanging on a thread - waiting - losing valuable time - crushed in many cases..... THAT IS WHEN I GOT MAD.

Trust, honesty, and my friends/family, are EVERYTHING to me.... without that - you're nothing. My name and doing biz with people means something to me. It's so much more than MONEY to me. I can buy my way out.... most can not. And I personally don't have time for phony friends that use me. I supposedly already have terminal cancer (second time doing this dance) -- I don't need "cancerous friends". And you guys don't either.

Call SpeedTech -- UMI -- BMR -- Ridetech -- Morrison -- Schwartz -- Roadster Shop - Chassisworks...... all top notch supporters here with real actual businesses.

[Vegas69]

There is no way in 2018 this should keep happening on this site.

I see two reasons why it's happened twice:'

1. It takes guts to call someone out publicly.

2. It's embarrassing to admit you got taken advantage of publicly.

A simple vendor rating system would likely go a long ways in defeating the above. Look at every major website that sells anything, they keep their vendors and products accountable. They do it for the integrity of their business and that means looking out for your members FIRST. In the long term, it rewards the good guys that are doing it right.

[DOOM]

There is no way in 2018 this should keep happening on this site.

I see two reasons why it's happened twice:'

1. It takes guts to call someone out publicly.

2. It's embarrassing to admit you got taken advantage of publicly.

A simple vendor rating system would likely go a long ways in defeating the above. Look at every major website that sells anything, they keep their vendors and products accountable. They do it for the integrity of their business and that means looking out for your members FIRST. In the long term, it rewards the good guys that are doing it right.
I agree 100% with Todd here. It may be time to change it up.

[ironworks]

There is no way in 2018 this should keep happening on this site.

I see two reasons why it's happened twice:'

1. It takes guts to call someone out publicly.

2. It's embarrassing to admit you got taken advantage of publicly.

A simple vendor rating system would likely go a long ways in defeating the above. Look at every major website that sells anything, they keep their vendors and products accountable. They do it for the integrity of their business and that means looking out for your members FIRST. In the long term, it rewards the good guys that are doing it right.

The problem is there are always 3 sides to every story. Like Greg said he was trying to help a friend just as much if not more then getting the actual car. The car was a by product of the actual end result.

The bigger problem is the education and the quality level of what is actual good enough and acceptable. We have all seen guys post work on their own car or professional work that people are having done that is posted on this site and think damn that looks rough. Or that isn't going to work and see plenty of people comment below with any emoji saying how awesome it looks when it doesn't and probably wont work or work very well. I wont name names but I got a text a few weeks before this messy situation came to light with some people questioning some things that were posted in this thread.

And In my 18 years of being in business I have learned that some times the customer can be smarter then the builder or the builder and the customer are both totally clueless. Or the customer thinks they are a big shot and know exactly what they want and think this is going to do exactly what they want because some companies marketing campaign told them it was what they needed. I have started some projects in the past from other shops that I'm convinced could never have been completed. The customer was unaware of that fact, and I wonder if the builder was just that shady or if they were just as clueless as the owner. Building a car takes alot of different things into account that have to be done in a proper order and with proper fore thought. Everything affects everything it seems some times. Some times we would have been better off to just have started over completely. It would have been less work in the end.

Greg, I know you will get it resolved and I wish more people would stand up and say what was wrong with the parts you txt me pics of and stuff. People need education. There is no reason to drag anyone through the mud further, pick up your stuff learn the lessons and move on. Dont trust a guy just because he said he is trust worthy. Look at the entirety of their work not just the smoke and mirrors. If some one has to tell you how good they are, they probably are not as good as they say.

[Spiffav8]

Ron Sutton Race Technologies was removed as a vendor by Lateral-G.

He still has a regular user account... his vendor status and ads were revoked/removed.

I think it's important to note that Ron Sutton Race Technologies has also been removed from other websites. This isn't just a Lateral-G thing.

[214Chevy]

i think it's important to note that ron sutton race technologies has also been removed from other websites. This isn't just a lateral-g thing.

Wow!!

[DOOM]

I have so many thoughts and questions on how and why this happens. I have dealt with Ron on my JRI SHOCKS purchase. I had a major issue that he could of told me I'm **** out of luck but he made good on it. I know this isn't Greg's $200,000 build . I think these guys get out of there lane and this is what the end result is . Stick to WTF you know . I use this board for a lot of info and I do ask people who they would or wouldn't use . Charley Lillard saved me a ton of money and headaches on a certain engine builder I was going to use. He PM'd me instantly and told me to run. And I did . But not everyone is going to do that . But Charley could of had great experience with this guy and tell everyone he was great then all hell breaks loose now what, its not Charley's fault ! Guess what I trying to get at is . We can't control when these guys are going to go bad . But If Greg recommended shop XYZ and it goes wrong I would not hold it against him . I understand where Greg is coming from on this matter. He is a great guy who holds his friends in high regard . I would like to hear anyone's thoughts on this I hope I made sense .:grouphug:

[Stuart Adams]

What blows my mind is Sutton thought the car was ready for racing. For him to think the situation was worthy of that sais a ton.

What decisions people make tells way more than that one decision.

[GregWeld]

What blows my mind is Sutton thought the car was ready for racing. For him to think the situation was worthy of that sais a ton.

What decisions people make tells way more than that one decision.

Again --- I remind people -- this isn't about the CRAPwrap/body... that was just an easy bullet to put in the chamber.... There's so much more that's wrong.... and so many more people involved and on other sites as well....

My issues - with this car - were the tip of the iceberg.

We'll all get over it and move on. Buy from real suppliers - there's a ton of great ones.

[CJD Automotive]

I have thought long and hard about how to respond to Greg’s situation, or even if I should. We have many RSRT parts in common, as with many others on this forum, and have all been dealing with Ron Sutton. I’ll start there.

I met him through the forum, like most, when he first started posting. He posted up some great stuff, technical advice, and theory, that eventually became sticky forums. He was very willing to offer advice and suggestions to help improve my car and others, at the time, free of charge. This Ron I really liked, said he was just giving back.

Told me around summer of 2015 he was developing front and rear suspension clips, JRI shock package, as well as a brake system from Stoptech. Sounded really good, based on everything he had told me, and all his testing he advertises on the his website, must be a killer, proven setup. I ordered and paid for everything in Fall of 2015, with delivery to be right after the new year in 2016.

This is when I started noticing the change in Ron, it was the start of him being very difficult to reach or long delays on responses (the birth of RSRT). The most irritating thing was to have a question or need an answer and be told he’s too busy and will get back with you in a few days or week, but see him answer forum questions during this time or post on FB! I’m a PAID customer, and that should take some precedent. We had a discussion where I told him that, and he explained he just had too much going on. I understand that, but if you try to be great at everything to everybody, you’ll not be very good at any of it to anybody. Scale back to what you can handle and be great at.

So without getting into the the nitty gritty details, the rear frame rails were delivered summer of 2016, and the clip, late Fall of 2016. Almost a year from the time ordered. Still no brakes, those would be mid-2017.
There were issues with the blueprints that caused lots of work to be performed and then redone to correct. This eats up valuable time, and this is what is most irritating about the delays in response. Greg touched on this a bit, and he “gets it”. I am just a regular guy with a job. I have to plan and block time to work on my car. I don’t get to block a lot of consecutive days, but on the few occasions I have, I’ve run into blueprint issues that took days to resolve because Ron was too busy to respond. This kills my allotted time and is demoralizing to me as I build this. It just kills my motivation when i have to remove or move something that was incorrect in a print.
I’ve had issues with delayed parts, wrong parts, wrong prints, and wrong dimensions supplied to my wheel maker, but suffered through with the impression I am building a bad ass suspension car. I still believe that, because if I don’t, then all this was for nothing, and that I’m not willing to accept given the time and money I have invested in this.

We all wanted to post our issues, but none of us were done with our cars. We would need setup advice and dimensions; to post would mean a clean death as we are nobody’s and Ron was the forum “superstar”. This could have only been done by someone with clout, that’s you Greg.

Now that it is done I have mixed feelings. Where do we go from here? I hope Ron continues to support and help his customers utilizing his suspension systems (me included). I hope that all of us with builds become a priority customer. I hope he realizes what I stated earlier, "Scale back to what you can handle and be great at”. I personally have just been very frustrated and disappointed with the parts and service I paid for. That cannot be undone from this point back, but can be a different and positive experience from this point forward. Only he can make that happen and I believe it will be the defining moment for Ron Sutton, RSRT, his customers, and the future of all involved.

[Flash68]

A simple vendor rating system would likely go a long ways in defeating the above. Look at every major website that sells anything, they keep their vendors and products accountable. They do it for the integrity of their business and that means looking out for your members FIRST. In the long term, it rewards the good guys that are doing it right.

I agree 100% with Todd here. It may be time to change it up.

Guys, there is a member/vendor feedback section already.

https://lateral-g.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=71

You can have the biggest baddest most awesome feedback function in all the land... it means nothing if users are unwilling to use it and make entries.

[Vegas69]

Guys, there is a member/vendor feedback section already.

https://lateral-g.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=71

You can have the biggest baddest most awesome feedback function in all the land... it means nothing if users are unwilling to use it and make entries.

Go back and read my #1 point. That's calling out a vendor publically and that's the major problem I see.

A simple 5 star rating system that can be anonymous. Vendors are welcome to solicit positive feedback and folks with bad experiences can provide feedback. There could be a verification to make sure they utilized the services.

Rodger, I get your point, but the cream rises to the top no matter what. The best can't please everybody, but they please more than their competition.

Paid advertisers have caused major harm around here twice, something needs to change.

[Matt@BOS]

Now that it is done I have mixed feelings. Where do we go from here? I hope Ron continues to support and help his customers utilizing his suspension systems (me included). I hope that all of us with builds become a priority customer. I hope he realizes what I stated earlier, "Scale back to what you can handle and be great at”. I personally have just been very frustrated and disappointed with the parts and service I paid for. That cannot be undone from this point back, but can be a different and positive experience from this point forward. Only he can make that happen and I believe it will be the defining moment for Ron Sutton, RSRT, his customers, and the future of all involved.

My two cents, go to the manufactures that Ron sourced his parts from for tech help. I’ve been getting calls from customers friends and others in the community that are in the same situation as yourself, and going back to the original source seems to work best since it’s become pretty clear that Sutton doesn’t have the knowledge that he claimed. I’ve refrained from saying anything for a while or getting into details, but I have talked to manufacturers/distributers that have had to spend HOURS on the phone explaining to Sutton how the parts that he was selling worked... these are things he should have known if he was giving a seminar on how suspension works. Nobody should have to spend two hours teaching Ron the basics of how a JRi shock works, but that happened a few weeks ago...

[GregWeld]

Cathartic isn't it Craig....... a weight lifted - a dark secret you hope doesn't get out because it will have repercussions. "It must only be me".


34 years of AA..... best thing in my life wasn't to stop drinking. It was to be HONEST. Make amends to those you've hurt. Forget it and look forward to what you can do about "it". My amends is to try to lift up - to reach down and lend a hand just like so many people did in my life. Sometimes we just have to be honest and know we're not always going to 100% successful. It's a percentage game - reach out to enough people - a percentage will be rewarding..... some won't get it.... some you'll be honest about and acknowledge you knew they were a waste of time when you started.... You did what you should and that's all you can ever do. THEY WIN if you let it beat you down. YOU WIN when you pick up a tool and do something with it and make the dream move forward.

XOXO to all

[camcojb]

Go back and read my #1 point. That's calling out a vendor publically and that's the major problem I see.

A simple 5 star rating system that can be anonymous. Vendors are welcome to solicit positive feedback and folks with bad experiences can provide feedback. There could be a verification to make sure they utilized the services.

Rodger, I get your point, but the cream rises to the top no matter what. The best can't please everybody, but they please more than their competition.

Paid advertisers have caused major harm around here twice, something needs to change.

I don't like it. Anonymous means it's not controlled; vendors can stuff the box with false feedbacks, and vice-versa. A lot of places use the five star system, but there's no way to know if it's real or not. We have feedback available and if you're not willing to put your name on it then I guess it wasn't that important.

[Flash68]

I don't like it. Anonymous means it's not controlled; vendors can stuff the box with false feedbacks, and vice-versa. A lot of places use the five star system, but there's no way to know if it's real or not. We have feedback available and if you're not willing to put your name on it then I guess it wasn't that important.

Took the words right out of my mouth Jody.

[Tinker]

Cathartic isn't it Craig....... a weight lifted - a dark secret you hope doesn't get out because it will have repercussions. "It must only be me".


34 years of AA..... best thing in my life wasn't to stop drinking. It was to be HONEST. Make amends to those you've hurt. Forget it and look forward to what you can do about "it". My amends is to try to lift up - to reach down and lend a hand just like so many people did in my life. Sometimes we just have to be honest and know we're not always going to 100% successful. It's a percentage game - reach out to enough people - a percentage will be rewarding..... some won't get it.... some you'll be honest about and acknowledge you knew they were a waste of time when you started.... You did what you should and that's all you can ever do. THEY WIN if you let it beat you down. YOU WIN when you pick up a tool and do something with it and make the dream move forward.

XOXO to all


I really debated today about starting a feedback thread on this, but this ship has sailed. I have worked with Ron since early 2016, been to 3 of his seminars and looked him straight in the eye when he told me " I was hoping to get at your calculations before the seminar, but.." I too had noticed a change. Early on it was great, response usually the same night. One on one conversation. I wondered how he could do this for everyone. There was a couple minor issues with parts that I never even brought up to him. I figured this is race stuff, get me started, and I'll take it from there. So now I sit here 8 months after ordering springs and shocks, no springs. ..waiting for calculations to determine correct rate. Luckily I have the shocks already, but that comes from Ridetech, who have been right on all the time. Maybe he will still come through, maybe I'm s.o.l. on the springs, time will tell. On the positive side, I enjoyed visiting with him, he is smart, when staying within his confines. I was able to twice tour the Ridetech facilities and have a nice conversation with Brett Voelkel, who is the most unassuming down to earth guy, ( that's a good thing)
I was able to meet David and Mary Pozzi, James Shipka, and others too many to mention. These were the good times that kept you coming back. Smoke show, or an honest overeager business plan? I don't know that is what made this one sting a lot. I think this is mutual to many. We will move on and finish our projects, just lean on the good people there are many here.

[Ns RS]

Took the words right out of my mouth Jody.

Per a few pages back “Vendor/member feed back thread is a great place on lat g to post recent or current transaction experiences.

Describe and Rate any recent or current transactions good or bad and it can serve as a resource for those lat g members about to engage in a transaction. Heck include part or service rendered and post the post sale experience/support.

Anything ordered on amazon can be rated, the vendor making the sale and the product sold. Key again is posting your feedback. Good vendors will continue to do well and so so vendors are given a chance to make good on any hiccups.

Transparency is always good and it gives the vendors or members an opportunity to rebuke or fix any problems that may have occurred vice versa - tough part is to post even after getting burned but doing so just helps everyone else out”

Greg gets a pass on vendor posting feed back - poor guy has done enough heavy lifting his back might give out )

[Build-It-Break-it]

I don't get why everyone on here is venting about Ron and their issues instead of the feedback section. When I knew Scott Mock was a joke I put on my big boy pants and my flame suit and immediately posted about him. I was a new member and he was a long term member for years here.

I knew there was going to be backlash brought on myself from disbelievers but that was expected and I knew I would have to have my ducks in a row to prove my case. Guess what, he's no longer a vendor and no longer a member.

Even after multiple people got the courage to posted up after me I still got hate messages and people asking me
"Are his frames really that bad" uhmm yes look at the pictures I posted?

Why wait years to post complaints about Ron on someone else's build thread? Why would anyone even want to do business with him still if everything that's been said is true and he burnt another member of his friendship, time and money.

Point is when something isn't right you have to man up and post it regardless of the backlash. Right is right. Help others save their hard earned money and most importantly time. Money we can all make again eventually, time we can never get back.

[Vegas69]

I don't like it. Anonymous means it's not controlled; vendors can stuff the box with false feedbacks, and vice-versa. A lot of places use the five star system, but there's no way to know if it's real or not. We have feedback available and if you're not willing to put your name on it then I guess it wasn't that important.

Anonymous to the public, not the moderators. There has to be accountability.

[camcojb]

Anonymous to the public, not the moderators. There has to be accountability.

Having a rating system will not stop what happened here. In the past this site has removed problem vendors way before other sites. It has always been the site members over money here. I just see too many negatives with your rating system.

[214Chevy]

Anonymous to the public, not the moderators. There has to be accountability.

In that instance, I'd think the public would have just as much right to know as the mod's would. I mean, we're the ones who'd be vulnerable to spending or shall I say losing hundreds to thousands of dollars, right?

[GregWeld]

LETS PLEASE TAKE THIS DISCUSSION SOMEWHERE ELSE --- not in my thread.

The FACTS are being lost and there is little or no solution because people are afraid to state their case.


BACK TO CARS PLEASE take the backroom problems elsewhere.

[FETorino]

BACK TO CARS PLEASE take the backroom problems elsewhere.

Sounds good. Time to move on.

[NOWINCA]

Haven't been here in years but same old BS people using the forum like its their personal phone conversation. Posting a hundred pages of a love fest and oh's and ah's of pictures when nobody can actually see the work they are commenting on. If someone dares to post an actual intelligent question regarding whats wrong they get attacked by the "Hey Thats My Friend" nonsense.

How do you end this? Easy stop these 100 page posts where people turn their builds and the people doing the building into untouchable gods. Its like reality TV I admit I read 10 pages because its interesting but after the long winded I love you fest its time to realize its these posts that are the problem. Its like getting into a group chat with the popular kid at school and having the chance to maybe get their attention.

No rating system needed just stop these personal look at me builds. You want it about the cars well stop posting long personal comments that take these builders from just that, builders to Gods.

bash away!


Projects section and maybe a Personal section where people can chat away.

[GregWeld]

Maybe another 10 years away will do you some good. Doubt it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[DOOM]

Maybe another 10 years away will do you some good. Doubt it.

Your the best Greg!! :D:D:D:D
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro:hitaxeonthehead::buttkick::lmao::lmao::lmao::l mao::lmao:

[Che70velle]

Haven't been here in years but same old BS people using the forum like its their personal phone conversation. Posting a hundred pages of a love fest and oh's and ah's of pictures when nobody can actually see the work they are commenting on. If someone dares to post an actual intelligent question regarding whats wrong they get attacked by the "Hey Thats My Friend" nonsense.

How do you end this? Easy stop these 100 page posts where people turn their builds and the people doing the building into untouchable gods. Its like reality TV I admit I read 10 pages because its interesting but after the long winded I love you fest its time to realize its these posts that are the problem. Its like getting into a group chat with the popular kid at school and having the chance to maybe get their attention.

No rating system needed just stop these personal look at me builds. You want it about the cars well stop posting long personal comments that take these builders from just that, builders to Gods.

bash away!


Projects section and maybe a Personal section where people can chat away.

Not sure what forum you’ve been marooned on for the past 4 years, but believe it or not, we are all friends over here. So we tend to “chat” like friends. And poke fun with each other like friends. And enjoy each other’s company...like friends.
Not sure why you have a problem with this. You don’t like us? Delete your account. Bye.

[Spiffav8]

Not sure what forum you’ve been marooned on for the past 4 years, but believe it or not, we are all friends over here. So we tend to “chat” like friends. And poke fun with each other like friends. And enjoy each other’s company...like friends.
Not sure why you have a problem with this. You don’t like us? Delete your account. Bye.

:hitaxeonthehead::buttkick::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao ::lmao:

Maybe another 10 years away will do you some good. Doubt it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Haven't been here in years but same old BS people using the forum like its their personal phone conversation. Posting a hundred pages of a love fest and oh's and ah's of pictures when nobody can actually see the work they are commenting on. If someone dares to post an actual intelligent question regarding whats wrong they get attacked by the "Hey Thats My Friend" nonsense.

How do you end this? Easy stop these 100 page posts where people turn their builds and the people doing the building into untouchable gods. Its like reality TV I admit I read 10 pages because its interesting but after the long winded I love you fest its time to realize its these posts that are the problem. Its like getting into a group chat with the popular kid at school and having the chance to maybe get their attention.

No rating system needed just stop these personal look at me builds. You want it about the cars well stop posting long personal comments that take these builders from just that, builders to Gods.

bash away!


Projects section and maybe a Personal section where people can chat away.

Gentlemen. You are all better than this. Just stop.

[FETorino]

Gentlemen. You are all better than this. Just stop.

Not me:D

[raustinss]

Lmao ... me either ..kick rocks buddy . Maybe go away for quite sometime and then when you think of returning ... dont

[GregWeld]

WE now have a solid do over plan for Dirt Missile!!

She's going to SPEEDTECH PERFORMANCE for Blake and the boys to make it what it should have been.

They understand the thin race bodies -- they paint in house -- they weld -- they race -- they understand a thing or two about suspension.... and they certainly understand what's NOT RIGHT.....

I've had so many offers to fix it -- and I thank all of you for reaching out and offering a helping hand. Blake et al have been friends for years.... and they're close (relatively) to us... and I know they can do the job.

[214Chevy]

Good deal Greggo!! You're in good hands now...

[1970RT]

...and I know they can do the job.
Outstanding. Looking forward to following the Rev1 build.

David

[GregWeld]

Outstanding. Looking forward to following the Rev1 build.

David



DIRTMISSILE 2.0



LOL



Hope I live long enough to see it run in it's new form.......

[Ketzer]

DIRTMISSILE 2.0



LOL



Hope I live long enough to see it run in it's new form.......

You still have to make it perfect, sell it to clill, and buy it back....



Jeff-

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Gentlemen. You are all better than this. Just stop.

Yes we are!! Its all Lord of the flies up in here. Time to pick ourselves up, rub some dirt in it and move the F on.


Back to build progress, build pictures, correction details and some F#?@!ing track pictures.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

WE now have a solid do over plan for Dirt Missile!!

She's going to SPEEDTECH PERFORMANCE for Blake and the boys to make it what it should have been.

They understand the thin race bodies -- they paint in house -- they weld -- they race -- they understand a thing or two about suspension.... and they certainly understand what's NOT RIGHT.....

I've had so many offers to fix it -- and I thank all of you for reaching out and offering a helping hand. Blake et al have been friends for years.... and they're close (relatively) to us... and I know they can do the job.

well that's how it should be Greg. Go speedtech!

[rickpaw]

WE now have a solid do over plan for Dirt Missile!!

She's going to SPEEDTECH PERFORMANCE for Blake and the boys to make it what it should have been.

They understand the thin race bodies -- they paint in house -- they weld -- they race -- they understand a thing or two about suspension.... and they certainly understand what's NOT RIGHT.....

I've had so many offers to fix it -- and I thank all of you for reaching out and offering a helping hand. Blake et al have been friends for years.... and they're close (relatively) to us... and I know they can do the job.

DIRTMISSILE 2.0



LOL



Hope I live long enough to see it run in it's new form.......

Greg,

First of all, sorry to hear about a friendship lost.

Secondly, I'm glad that you're moving forward to version #2. I hope that you/Speedtech can post pictures of things that are potentially wrong or mistake so that the rest of us can learn from.

Like many others, I really enjoys reading your build threads.

Best of luck to you (health wise, and on the new version of DirtMissile).

Tu

[GregWeld]

You still have to make it perfect, sell it to clill, and buy it back....



Jeff-



The seat is custom and bolted in..... and I purposely had the bars built for 5' 5" or less.... Lurch missed it by a full foot.

LOL

Good thing I love him.

[rixtrix1]

The seat is custom and bolted in..... and I purposely had the bars built for 5' 5" or less.... Lurch missed it by a full foot.

LOL

Good thing I love him.

Funny, Greg. Go 2.0!

[Panteracer]

Gregg,
You can always cut bars out
I had to do that to reposition the damn seat
in the Mustang I sold to Chet.... was so far
forward originally my knee kept hitting the door
handle opening it when shifting

Good to hear Speedtech is taking over

Bob

[FETorino]

The seat is custom and bolted in..... and I purposely had the bars built for 5' 5" or less.... Lurch missed it by a full foot.

LOL

Good thing I love him.

I thought you did that to keep me from being able to record a lap time in it. :shakehead:

It will be good to see you get it sorted out and more importantly see YOU drive it. I doubt that it will be that big of a project. It has some decent bones.

[raustinss]

Please post all kinds of pics ... you know so you can rub it in our faces .. look at me as that other guy put it . I love living thru other peoples builds and having it rubbed in my face . .... wait .. what ?! Lol

[GregWeld]

I thought you did that to keep me from being able to record a lap time in it. :shakehead:

It will be good to see you get it sorted out and more importantly see YOU drive it. I doubt that it will be that big of a project. It has some decent bones.



The docs gave me 18 to 24 months --- I've burned thru 7 of those already and the car is still sitting in California -- and will take a few weeks or months depending on what decisions are made and what I want changed.... so figure that burns a year..... You can see why TIME is important to me. If I can't drive it - I'd like to at least see the SOB run some serious laps and know I succeeded. Me driving it is more of a pipe dream now - just that much further away now. F it - it is what it is....

[FETorino]

Well. You are healthy enough and capable of driving it now.
The oiling issue is a quick fix for somebody who knows LS motors.
The suspension is already more competent than you.
Just sort the motor and drive the dam thing. Maybe some additional strengthening of the LCAs and run it.

[DBasher]

Well. You are healthy enough and capable of driving it now.
The oiling issue is a quick fix for somebody who knows LS motors.
The suspension is already more competent than you.
Just sort the motor and drive the dam thing. Maybe some additional strengthening of the LCAs and run it.

Don’t forget to cut the cowl back and vent the hood....Maybe toss a couple more sheet metal screws in the taillights so they don’t fall out, lol
What a turd! An easily fixed turd...You’ll be on track before you know it.

[GregWeld]

...... she's a turd alright! I've owned similar in the past - mostly bought off FleaBay sight unseen. They were a little less expensive than this one... LOL


There is so much more "wrong" here - that doesn't meet the litmus test.

#1 - Blowing oil out of the breather (same issue from June T&T day)

#2 - Blowing oil out of the valve cover (same issue from June T&T day)

#3 - Overheating/possible hurt cylinder already (30 laps?)

#4 - Various and many electrical issues

#5 - Safety concerns of Sutton designed "Taco" Lower control arms

#6 - Safety concerns over catastrophic failure of various links in De-coupled Three link

#7 - Body fit and finish (possibly unsalvageable)

I now have come to the conclusion that the ONLY REASON FOR A DECOUPLED THREE LINK REAR --- is to create DEPENDENCY on Ron Sutton for set up - for advice going forward - and for an escape route for him - when sh!t happens with it -- he can simply claim "you must have done something wrong".

I'm having a friend that built many chassis and raced Trans Am cars and many other types... take a look at trying to understand the pluses and minuses of this style rear. So far --- and these are not new folks, they've been around for a long time in various versions --- the prevailing view is "WHY?" -- it's been described as "BUSY" -- "adds complication and parts without any advantages" -- "failure of the acell and decel links causes catastrophic failure when the pinion is free to rotate to the sky".... in other words -- it's more SUTTON SECRET SAUCE that is mostly hype/bullsh!t and dependence building (on him).

So -- when you take your crap to the track -- look around -- see what others are running -- you WILL NOT find ANYONE running J hook LCA's and you won't find anyone else with a decoupled 3 link..... Which means -- you can't walk over to the guy 3 trailers down and discuss set up or nuances. NOPE -- you're going to have to call mister Secret Sauce -- and maybe he gets back to you and maybe he just opens his mouth and more salesman sauce oozes out. The Instructions - which just finally came out this week (people have waited months or a year + for these) -- and my guy says -- "For what it's worth, from my point of view I see a lot of vagueness in the explanation of how it actually affects the instant centers and a lot of steps that need to be tuned by "feel"."

Can you all hear that giant sucking sound??? Sorry for all of you that are in this together. We shall live and learn.

[DOOM]

Greg if Blake needs hands for help getting that body straightened out just let me know I'll be more than happy to go down and spend a few days to help out. I really wanna see you drive this car. Your time line just hit me like a ton of bricks !!!!:(

[GregWeld]

Greg if Blake needs hands for help getting that body straightened out just let me know I'll be more than happy to go down and spend a few days to help out. I really wanna see you drive this car. Your time line just hit me like a ton of bricks !!!!:(



Thanks buddy! I know you'd be first one there to help.... and I love you for that!

[Blake Foster]

Greg if Blake needs hands for help getting that body straightened out just let me know I'll be more than happy to go down and spend a few days to help out. I really wanna see you drive this car. Your time line just hit me like a ton of bricks !!!!:(

COOL
BTW I have a line up right now if you were to come and start on Monday we could get to Gregs much faster :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Okay ---- here's some simple pictures that ANYONE can understand.....


One is a picture of what is on DM..... a long - unsupported "j hook" design - that wants to BEND under braking (3:35 Hoosiers can supply a LOT of braking forces).... and also wants to TWIST and break that welded "eye"....



DIRT MISSILE currently:

66688




NOW --- Let's look at the SpeedTech front design that is supported and beefy and nothing will be allowed to bend/flex/rotate..... a 4 year old might draw a little better (LOL) but it's pretty obvious there's a huge difference --- BOTH TAKE 3:35's up front --- one I'd drive and one is scrap.....




SpeedTech Extreme subframe design:



66689

[GregWeld]

THIS is an actual photo of both sides of the SPEEDTECH lower control arm that accepts 3:35's...... Compare this to the WEAK SAUCE on Dirt Missile.... LOL Yeah that is all going away and we'll be putting this on FTW!!!




66690





66691


















Okay ---- here's some simple pictures that ANYONE can understand.....


One is a picture of what is on DM..... a long - unsupported "j hook" design - that wants to BEND under braking (3:35 Hoosiers can supply a LOT of braking forces).... and also wants to TWIST and break that welded "eye"....



DIRT MISSILE currently:

66688




NOW --- Let's look at the SpeedTech front design that is supported and beefy and nothing will be allowed to bend/flex/rotate..... a 4 year old might draw a little better (LOL) but it's pretty obvious there's a huge difference --- BOTH TAKE 3:35's up front --- one I'd drive and one is scrap.....




SpeedTech Extreme subframe design:



66689

[Musclerodz]

I'm no suspension expert but won't that lower control arm cause a negative caster gain? Giving a neutral or even loose steering feel? Probably a real handful in an off camber turn. The bent rear arm which if it was supported in the same plane as the front could be reinforced with a diagonal tube.

[carbuff]

Since I have the Extreme subframe from SpeedTech now, I can attest to how hefty that LCA is.

One thing I spoke with both Ron and Roger at SpeedTech about that I liked from my previous JRS setup was the spherical bearings in the control arms. There is a lot of friction (Ron calls is stiction) when you go to move the arms with no spring/shock in place. I've thought about making a set of my own, it wouldn't be that hard. Aftermarket kits are available for the C5/C6 to do exactly this, but they are stupid expensive. You can get the high quality bearings for < $50 each (I did for TOW). 8 of them gets you to $400. But its the sleeves and standoffs which will take the machine time. Anyway, I digress...

Another thing about the ST LCA's: they are designed to go on a (typically) much heavier street car than I think Ron designs his race car parts for. That said, the race car has the capability of inflicting MUCH higher loads / stresses on components I would expect... So perhaps the higher forces of a racecar offset the raw weight of a street car. And thus this is certainly not a place to save a pound I think. (I'm rambling out loud here now...)

Good luck on the new plan. Like everyone else, I just want to see you out having fun with this or Yeller or whatever car you're driving!

[Che70velle]

Greg, the Sutton LCA setup is the same stuff I ran on my asphalt late models. I didn’t use the “fishhook” style rods, but it was a straight tube. Otherwise the same. Maybe Ron needed clearance for turning radius, hence the bend?
Either way, it’s a very lightweight simple setup, that’s not meant to hold up at all. ANY contact with another car, or a simple brush with the wall, and they went in the dumpster. I carried two sets of each side on the hauler, and would often have to change them out after practice, due to a pass with slight contact.
I really can’t believe that he used a setup like this on a car like that.
And the wiring on the missle...I’d re-do every inch of it. Looks like a third grader wired the car...
Looking forward to watching SppedTech make this car what it should have been.
Your on the wrong coast, or I’d be there today helping!
To everyone with their hands on this car...LETS ROLL!!!!:flag2::flag2::flag2:

[mfain]

I'm no suspension expert but won't that lower control arm cause a negative caster gain? Giving a neutral or even loose steering feel? Probably a real handful in an off camber turn. The bent rear arm which if it was supported in the same plane as the front could be reinforced with a diagonal tube.

I assume Blake will build a new set of LCAs using his design but retaining the RSRT pick-up points/geometry. Moving the pick-up points changes all of the current suspension geometry. Changing the effective length of the LCA would, for example, require a different length or repositioned rack to retain proper bump steer. The angled (not parallel with the centerline axis) pick-up points of the LCA move the lower ball joint fore and aft slightly with suspension travel, which affects dynamic caster gain, which I'm sure is a deliberate design feature of the current configuration. Moving either of the LCA pick-up points up or down changes the roll center, dynamic caster gain, and/or anti-dive. And as you point out, changing the relationship of the UCA and LCA lengths changes the camber curve. Lots to consider.

Pappy

[Matt@BOS]

I assume Blake will build a new set of LCAs using his design but retaining the RSRT pick-up points/geometry. Moving the pick-up points changes all of the current suspension geometry. Changing the effective length of the LCA would, for example, require a different length or repositioned rack to retain proper bump steer. The angled (not parallel with the centerline axis) pick-up points of the LCA move the lower ball joint fore and aft slightly with suspension travel, which affects dynamic caster gain, which I'm sure is a deliberate design feature of the current configuration. Moving either of the LCA pick-up points up or down changes the roll center, dynamic caster gain, and/or anti-dive. And as you point out, changing the relationship of the UCA and LCA lengths changes the camber curve. Lots to consider.

Pappy

I think it would actually be advantageous to update the geometry of what's on the the Dirt Missile to what Speed Tech is using. It really is dirt track stuff at the moment. It is either from Howe or copied from Howe, and as Mike at Muscle Rodz pointed out, I'm pretty sure the current lower control arms are actually going to lose caster under compression because they are not mounted parallel to the longitudenal centerline of the car.

[Rmt]

Greg, the Sutton LCA setup is the same stuff I ran on my asphalt late models. I didn’t use the “fishhook” style rods, but it was a straight tube. Otherwise the same. Maybe Ron needed clearance for turning radius, hence the bend?
Either way, it’s a very lightweight simple setup, that’s not meant to hold up at all. ANY contact with another car, or a simple brush with the wall, and they went in the dumpster. I carried two sets of each side on the hauler, and would often have to change them out after practice, due to a pass with slight contact.
I really can’t believe that he used a setup like this on a car like that.
And the wiring on the missle...I’d re-do every inch of it. Looks like a third grader wired the car...
Looking forward to watching SppedTech make this car what it should have been.
Your on the wrong coast, or I’d be there today helping!
To everyone with their hands on this car...LETS ROLL!!!!:flag2::flag2::flag2:
Now I’m a bit worried. I have the very same chassis as Greg’s, except it took 6 months to get the LCAs & 8 to get the UCAs. One of my first thoughts was I should order a spare pair, and beef them up somehow, in spite of added unsprung weight.

[Blake Foster]

Since I have the Extreme subframe from SpeedTech now, I can attest to how hefty that LCA is.

One thing I spoke with both Ron and Roger at SpeedTech about that I liked from my previous JRS setup was the spherical bearings in the control arms. There is a lot of friction (Ron calls is stiction) when you go to move the arms with no spring/shock in place. I've thought about making a set of my own, it wouldn't be that hard. Aftermarket kits are available for the C5/C6 to do exactly this, but they are stupid expensive. You can get the high quality bearings for < $50 each (I did for TOW). 8 of them gets you to $400. But its the sleeves and standoffs which will take the machine time. Anyway, I digress...

!

we have built a couple prototype uca and lca with bearings in them. it is more work and more machining. we were going to offer them as an upgrade to the current arm but honestly other that talking it over with Ron you are the first one to mention it. so that being said does it make "Cents" out of dollars ? or the other way around

[carbuff]

we have built a couple prototype uca and lca with bearings in them. it is more work and more machining. we were going to offer them as an upgrade to the current arm but honestly other that talking it over with Ron you are the first one to mention it. so that being said does it make "Cents" out of dollars ? or the other way around

Blake,

I volunteered to test a set with Roger way back when when I first mentioned it to him. Offer still stands. :goggles: I did discuss the idea with Ron as well. I'm trying to recall if he told me he had already discussed with you or whether he was going to. Doesn't matter, just interesting history.

I'm certain it's more work/time to build them. The lowers are pretty straightforward I think on how to do it. The upper would need a bit more work, but probably not much (really a different shaft is what I came up with, I had no idea where to get one of those built).

It's hard to know how many people would ultimately be willing to pay the upgrade cost. $500? Probably many. $2000? Probably few. But that's just me thinking...

Thanx for chiming in. Now back to the Missile! :thumbsup:

[CJD Automotive]

I'm having a friend that built many chassis and raced Trans Am cars and many other types... take a look at trying to understand the pluses and minuses of this style rear. So far --- and these are not new folks, they've been around for a long time in various versions --- the prevailing view is "WHY?" -- it's been described as "BUSY" -- "adds complication and parts without any advantages" -- "failure of the acell and decel links causes catastrophic failure when the pinion is free to rotate to the sky".... in other words -- it's more SUTTON SECRET SAUCE that is mostly hype/bullsh!t and dependence building (on him)

Being one who really can’t afford to change this setup, I’ll need to figure out how to make it work. Greg is correct about a link failure being catostrophic. I have made safety tethers for mine to prevent over rotation in either direction should a link bend or fail. What makes me think that is a probability and not a possibility? This is a Trans Am car back when they ran 3-links. The link sits almost next to you in a VERY beefy structure. You can see the adjustment knob and slot are also very beefy. This, for engines that make 500-550 ft. Lbs of torque.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t445/340cuda/1CC20C8F-60A4-4EAC-BB8B-8B67872A4274_zpsuksvdeus.jpeg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/340cuda/media/1CC20C8F-60A4-4EAC-BB8B-8B67872A4274_zpsuksvdeus.jpeg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t445/340cuda/6692DD54-ED88-497C-82AA-6FAB84D79B9A_zps1cbtwvsy.jpeg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/340cuda/media/6692DD54-ED88-497C-82AA-6FAB84D79B9A_zps1cbtwvsy.jpeg.html)

Compared to what me, Greg, and others are using:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t445/340cuda/IMG_6449_zpsw4nwfdbh.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/340cuda/media/IMG_6449_zpsw4nwfdbh.jpg.html)

I found this concerning after assembling, the first thing I thought was, “holy crap, if this breaks or bends, nasty things will happen. Better make a pair of safety tethers”. Would have hoped the person designing this would have had the same fore thought.

[mfain]

I think it would actually be advantageous to update the geometry of what's on the the Dirt Missile to what Speed Tech is using. It really is dirt track stuff at the moment. It is either from Howe or copied from Howe, and as Mike at Muscle Rodz pointed out, I'm pretty sure the current lower control arms are actually going to lose caster under compression because they are not mounted parallel to the longitudenal centerline of the car.

Okay, this post is about suspension and not intended to be a defense of any particular person or company. Fair enough?

Here is a quote from Blake's post number 578 in this thread:

"I feel that the design and performance of our subframes and chassis are the top of the Line. We did all the design EXCEPT the geometry on the front suspension, which Ron did and I think you are starting to see some pretty well built competitive cars out there now."

Dirt Missile has a track only high-travel/low-roll suspension with a very stiff front swaybar and specific scrub radius, dynamic caster gain, and Ackermann to make it work on track. Plug it in a suspension analyzer and you will see what I mean. (I have) It doesn't really matter if the components are dirt track, asphalt late model, or GT prototype as long as they produce the desired geometry. With that said, I agree that the LCA is probably a little light duty for this application, and I would change it. Pro-touring cars, out of absolute necessity, have some compromises to make them work on the street. You don't want a front suspension that easily travels 4 inches in compression, with no roll, or you would never get in or out of a drive-way. And, with wide tires in a production car chassis it is very difficult to get anywhere near zero scrub - something a good race car needs for turn-in. You need to decide whether you want a street (capable) car or a race car.

I subscribe to the high-travel/low-roll philosophy for a track car. I use Speed Tech's ATS spindles adapted to different length Howe ball joint studs, JRi shocks, a 2000# rate sway bar, and my own fabricated control arms. The LCAs are a little heavier than I would like, but they provide some insurance for the stress of big tires and big brakes, and they accommodate a 335 with 9 inches of wheel backspacing, which gets me to a near-zero scrub radius.

Pappy

66692

66693

[GregWeld]

Good posts Craig and Pappy.....


We will all figure this crap out. I let Sutton have his way with the DM - it was "ALL HIM".

NOW -- it will be NONE OF HIM.

I've been doing this for a good long time.... I/we all know junk when we see it.... Pappy and SpeedTech LCA's are well done (seems to me).... vs the DM lightweight (maybe a little Collin Chapman here...) single breakable / foldable / trash.


The whole rear end thing??? Jury is out for me.... We'll see what some serious actual experts have to say. If they start scratching their chin and searching for words..... LOL We'll get the saws out and go to town.... I'm not driving - nor asking anyone else to drive something that I feel would be unsafe. This crap is hard enough without having nightmares over it before you ever get on track.

[MattO]

Greg, I log off for a week, and look what you've done with the place! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

If there's one thing I know about you Greg, it's that you tell it like it is. Be it good, bad, or indifferent. It's ****ty to watch things go down like they have, but if anyone can bounce back from this, it's you.

[DOOM]

COOL
BTW I have a line up right now if you were to come and start on Monday we could get to Gregs much faster :thumbsup:

Blake if it means getting that crazy bastard in the car faster I'm in.:gitrdun::)

[GregWeld]

Blake if it means getting that crazy bastard in the car faster I'm in.:gitrdun::)

Love you buddy and I know you mean it!!


She'll be okay -- The boys have a lot on their plate -- but this isn't their first goat rodeo - and my worst fears are probably overblown as far as the mechanical stuff. So we may have a look at the body - and bypass that in favor of getting her back on track -- all depends on what the Mayo tells me in October.... thumbs down and I'll ask them to just get it "running" and fix the suspension in the front end..... Thumbs up and we'll let them make it a cool race car... and I'll just run Old faithful - Old Yeller.

In the meantime -- I'm trying to get the '40 finished for the tour this month -- I've sold my house, and have to move while away on tour (not missing it).... So we're flying to Scottsdale in the morning to have a quick look at some stuff.... oh -- and toss in a trip to Laguna Seca with Alex for the IMSA races -- and a trip to Napa for Birthdays for Me - Adrienne, and Payton King (they share the same b'day).... and trailer the POS to St George..... and let's see what else I can heap on the plate!!

[Blake Foster]

In the meantime -- I'm trying to get the '40 finished for the tour this month -- I've sold my house, and have to move while away on tour (not missing it).... So we're flying to Scottsdale in the morning to have a quick look at some stuff.... oh -- and toss in a trip to Laguna Seca with Alex for the IMSA races -- and a trip to Napa for Birthdays for Me - Adrienne, and Payton King (they share the same b'day).... and trailer the POS to St George..... and let's see what else I can heap on the plate!!

lol and i thought i was busy!!! you are going to log a lot of miles in the next 3 weeks!!

[WSSix]

Sold the place in Sun Valley already? I know you mentioned you weren't into skiing any more. Figured you still liked the place enough to stay though.

That's a lot on your plate just with the car let alone the truck and everything else. Good luck getting it all done. Be sure to enjoy the trips along the way.

[GregWeld]

Sold the place in Sun Valley already? I know you mentioned you weren't into skiing any more. Figured you still liked the place enough to stay though.

That's a lot on your plate just with the car let alone the truck and everything else. Good luck getting it all done. Be sure to enjoy the trips along the way.



I invented the road trip!! Been doing it all my life - a professional road tripper!

LOL

The SV house is not about not wanting to live here - or stay here.... but life has been kinda trying to catch up with me - and I have a lovely wife that doesn't need to be here in this house all alone... She's a biker/hiker - it's a long winter riding the Peloton for her. So.... we're out.

And regarding the full plate. Since May of 2016 -- I don't say "no" much.... I actually think being busy (busy having FUN - not busy working) is good for you. It takes my mind off "me" and focuses me on "what's next".

[65 347]

Greg if Blake needs hands for help getting that body straightened out just let me know I'll be more than happy to go down and spend a few days to help out. I really wanna see you drive this car. Your time line just hit me like a ton of bricks !!!!:(

Mario, Let me know when we are flying out, you know I'm not afraid of sanding a turd.

[DBasher]

Well if you two yahoos are going, I’m in as well. I hear Utah is nice this time of year.
:flag2::thumbsup:

[DOOM]

Mario, Let me know when we are flying out, you know I'm not afraid of sanding a turd.

Well if you two yahoos are going, I’m in as well. I hear Utah is nice this time of year.
:flag2::thumbsup:

Looks like were picking up steam !:lol:

[Spiffav8]

Mario, Let me know when we are flying out, you know I'm not afraid of sanding a turd.

Well if you two yahoos are going, I’m in as well. I hear Utah is nice this time of year.
:flag2::thumbsup:

Looks like were picking up steam !:lol:

I'll pick you window lickers up from the airport and we can drive up from Vegas.

:cheers:

[glassman]

Theres supposed to be a bunch of us yahoo's in Utah on the 19th, if we had real jobs we could take the week before off and each f up a panel...

[GregWeld]

Please go to here and read the crap from some of the idiots that are on the internet...


https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56814


WTF....

Sorry, Not sorry.

[DBasher]

.....we could take the week before off and each f up a panel...

I’m pretty sure we could be juiced up on Welds meds and the panels would look 100x better. LOL

[GregWeld]

I’m pretty sure we could be juiced up on Welds meds and the panels would look 100x better. LOL

Could you also redesign the front and rear suspension.... rewire it.... and plumb up the dry sump while rebuilding the motor??

One weekend should be enough time.

[GregWeld]

Maybe have a spare body handy for when he wads this one up.:mock:

It showed up "pre-wadded"

LOL

[DBasher]

Could you also redesign the front and rear suspension.... rewire it.... and plumb up the dry sump while rebuilding the motor??

One weekend should be enough time.

Hate to say I told you so but...you shoulda bought a boat.

[GregWeld]

Hate to say I told you so but...you shoulda bought a boat.

Very uncool to discuss money.....


LOL

[Vegas69]

I say give the POS away, sell it really cheap, or crush it. I don't know how wealthy you are, but I have a feeling this isn't much of a hit financially. This whole deal is very personal and I have to wonder if you'll ever get the bad taste out of your mouth with this car. It reminds me of a client that got a divorce or their spouse died and they want to move away from that house. Sometimes you just need to move on.

You don't seem to have enough life left to take on this burden. I have to ask why keep going down this path? Look after your health and move on to things that matter.

That's my perspective, love it or hate it...

[GregWeld]

I say give the POS away, sell it really cheap, or crush it. I don't know how wealthy you are, but I have a feeling this isn't much of a hit financially. This whole deal is very personal and I have to wonder if you'll ever get the bad taste out of your mouth with this car. It reminds me of a client that got a divorce or their spouse died and they want to move away from that house. Sometimes you just need to move on.

You don't seem to have enough life left to take on this burden. I have to ask why keep going down this path? Look after your health and move on to things that matter.

That's my perspective, love it or hate it...


I have a plan to de-secret sauce it..... I'll take the motor and trans out - the wheels and brakes off - the rear end minus all the brackets.... Order a Howe Chassis and body....

Take the body and chassis to Los Angeles and put it in the La Brea Tar pits --- and make a viral video....

The city assured me they would rename the pits "Secret Sauce".

[DBasher]

I have a plan to de-secret sauce it..... I'll take the motor and trans out - the wheels and brakes off - the rear end minus all the brackets.... Order a Howe Chassis and body....

Take the body and chassis to Los Angeles and put it in the La Brea Tar pits --- and make a viral video....

The city assured me they would rename the pits "Secret Sauce".

Don’t forget the camera, if it’s not oil soaked it’s a great set up. Lol

[FETorino]

I gotta agree with Todd.

Did I just say that? :headscratch:

[Vegas69]

I gotta agree with Todd.

Did I just say that? :headscratch:

Maybe world peace is possible. Ha

[jarhead]

I vote for Highland Green for the makeover...

And a crazy team name logo based upon all the "Buddies" that got you through this.

Team JackStand :headscratch:

A Phoenix rising from the ashes would be so cliche, lol

And by the way a blown Coyote would look good in there, and prolly not blow oil :D

:popcorn2::popcorn2::popcorn2:

[DBasher]

I gotta agree with Todd.

Did I just say that? :headscratch:

I “unfriend” you.
What’s next? Dave working on your car??
:bitchslap:

[FETorino]

I “unfriend” you.
What’s next? Dave working on your car??
:bitchslap:

:headscratch: probably before Braga doing my wiring. :popcorn2:

[GregWeld]

I vote for Highland Green for the makeover...

And a crazy team name logo based upon all the "Buddies" that got you through this.

Team JackStand :headscratch:

A Phoenix rising from the ashes would be so cliche, lol

And by the way a blown Coyote would look good in there, and prolly not blow oil :D

:popcorn2::popcorn2::popcorn2:


Joe --- that van down by the river is way better than a night at the Holiday Inn -- because that was brilliant!!

Team JackStand it is!

And you're 100% right on the Highland Green is spot on!!

Now --- Highland Green cars RARELY came with stripes and I think the fat ass needs stripes -- so lets come up with that color!

Goldish??

Black??

Help me here!

[GregWeld]

Maybe world peace is possible. Ha



Right now -- we have Whirled Peas.....

[Che70velle]

Right now -- we have Whirled Peas.....

Without the “sauce”...

[Peter McMahon]

Well if it’s a green fastback Mustang, it’s like Steve McQueen’s “Bullsh!t” Mustang!

[GregWeld]

Well if it’s a green fastback Mustang, it’s like Steve McQueen’s “Bullsh!t” Mustang!

Funny --- spent all / most of my life a Chevy guy.... Corvettes, Camaros, Tri-fives...

How the hell did I end up with all this Ford stuff!!

At least I've stuck with Chevy power. LOL

My '32 - both '33's - the '40 - the Dirt Missile - all chevy all the time...

I do love the SBF in the '65 - but I can never find the distributor!

[Peter McMahon]

I got a coyote powered 56’ F100, ain’t all bad!

[GregWeld]

Small business owners --- learn from others mistakes.....


Too much marketing, and not enough performance, equals a bad business

Invert that to performance after the sale and it will equal a growing business


Each satisfied customer will be your best marketing tool --- become a tool at marketing and you won't have to worry about all those customers you're trying to attract, because you won't have many.


The highway is littered with the Jakes - Mocks - Fletchers - Prodigys - all having the same common failures. Lots of selling. Lots of lack of performance.

[jarhead]

Gold pinstripe, so to not take away from the rest of the cars lines?

Or a Boss 302 stripe down each fender and side... With your choice of lettering...

this comes to mind, lol

LS
FTW

:stirthepot:

[Musclerodz]

I would do it in vintage livery. Parnelli Jones/Bud Moore/etc

[OLDFLM]

Gold pinstripe, so to not take away from the rest of the cars lines?

Or a Boss 302 stripe down each fender and side... With your choice of lettering...

this comes to mind, lol

LS
FTW

:stirthepot:


I'd switch the bottom letters to "WTF" :stirthepot:

[raustinss]

Highland green /grey or a graphite stripes ?????

[GregWeld]

Highland green /grey or a graphite stripes ?????



I like the graphite -- goes with the Forgelines.....

I even thought about carbon fiber stripes --- to pick up on the wing.... IDK

I'm pretty over "carbon fiber" everything.

A buddy that owns a boat dealership just picked up a line of boats and said they're almost all carbon fiber - but they're painted etc.... The stuff is weaving itself in to everything these days <see what I did there?> LOL

[GregWeld]

I would do it in vintage livery. Parnelli Jones/Bud Moore/etc

Can't do the Bud Moore -- that's black and red -- and I know another guy that's into those colors and I've eaten enough of his sh!t....

There are too many Parnelli clones for me.... I like it -- but I want someone to be able to say -- remember that XXXXX mustang (not one lap wonder) -- and if it's PJ colors nobody will know which one you're talking about.

I'm not a yellow guy - but damn the car stands out on track..... I could do the Highland Green because it would be "did you see that dark green mustang with the huge wing"? But guess that carries over to the PJ color as well.

[FETorino]

It’s an easy call

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/19EFE0DE-F5B9-4265-A5AE-A8C0A83FC8E9_zpsjs77o2br.jpg (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/19EFE0DE-F5B9-4265-A5AE-A8C0A83FC8E9_zpsjs77o2br.jpg.html)


When does the flat plane 5.2 get installed?

[Musclerodz]

Can't do the Bud Moore -- that's black and red -- and I know another guy that's into those colors and I've eaten enough of his sh!t....

There are too many Parnelli clones for me.... I like it -- but I want someone to be able to say -- remember that XXXXX mustang (not one lap wonder) -- and if it's PJ colors nobody will know which one you're talking about.

I'm not a yellow guy - but damn the car stands out on track..... I could do the Highland Green because it would be "did you see that dark green mustang with the huge wing"? But guess that carries over to the PJ color as well.

I get what your saying about it looking like all the rest. Darker colors tend to draw heat rather than reflect it, so I would be looking at lighter colors personally, or a 2 tone.

[dontlifttoshift]

-- but I want someone to be able to say -- remember that XXXXX mustang


Say no more......

https://barnfinds.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/unicorn-mustang-front-e1500164160674-630x421.jpg

[Peter McMahon]

If you guys are ok with spending his money I vote with Rob, green and yellow with the 5.2 flat plane!

[57hemicuda]

Don't know about colors, but I picked out the Graphics for the Dirt Missile , see what I did there?

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cars/AMX/i-24GXMSH/0/374609fa/L/Screenshot_20180827-184950-L.png

[Che70velle]

Say no more......

https://barnfinds.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/unicorn-mustang-front-e1500164160674-630x421.jpg

Gives a new meaning to having a rear wing Donny.

[GregWeld]

Say no more......

https://barnfinds.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/unicorn-mustang-front-e1500164160674-630x421.jpg



Donny..... THAT IS WHAT I HAVE NOW!!!

LOL

[DBasher]

Do it for Charlie.

[clill]

Maybe this goes on each door. Touch up paint will be easy.

[medbali76]

There are a lot of Mustangs already in grey.... all kind of grey...matte, flat, nardo, destroyer etc.

I would go olive gold / olive green as main color combined with flat black/flat grey and/or carbon parts.

Something like this and make a modern version of a trans am racer:

[jarhead]

Then there is this...

"Rust Wrap" Hide all those hideous gaps :prix:

[glassman]

Say no more......

https://barnfinds.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/unicorn-mustang-front-e1500164160674-630x421.jpg

Now thats a hood scoop.
Makes me horny.

[WSSix]

There are a lot of Mustangs already in grey.... all kind of grey...matte, flat, nardo, destroyer etc.

I would go olive gold / olive green as main color combined with flat black/flat grey and/or carbon parts.

Something like this and make a modern version of a trans am racer:

That's a great looking car. The color is very nice. I'd go for something along these lines. I think the graphite stripes would go well with the color and keep your tie into the wheels also. You could always do offset stripes like Mayhem.

[will69camaro]

You could always do offset stripes like Mayhem.

It already has offset stripes...:secret:

[GregWeld]

After all the info that had flowed to me regarding “less than stellar parts and services” ...... a friend of our Lat-G community found this.



https://www.courtlistener.com/pdf/2015/12/03/in_re_ronald_david_sutton_and_kimberly_ann_sutton_ 1.pdf

[Stuart Adams]

Holy cow.

[Peter McMahon]

Classy

[214Chevy]

:underchair::underchair::whistling::whistling:

[GregWeld]

it already has offset stripes...:secret:

fact!!!!

[WSSix]

lol, very true. How about European style stripes?

[raustinss]

Lmfao wheres that info in the "sometimes things dont go as planned thread "? .... what a d#$k farmer

[rixtrix1]

Soo, when does the re-construction begin?

[thedugan]

Na, leave it as it is and show it in SEMA.

[raustinss]

Na, leave it as it is and show it in SEMA.

Lmao that at SEMA would be like being proud of a home made Boob job . ...or in fact yes take it there , dont answer any questions just a sign saying how much $$$ and who built it

[Peter McMahon]

Doug nailed it, SEMA!

[GregWeld]

Doug nailed it, SEMA!



I'm surprised Sutton hasn't called and asked if he could have it for display at his seminars....

[waynieZ]

I'm surprised Sutton hasn't called and asked if he could have it for display at his seminars....

Yes but only after everyone had paid!

[GregWeld]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180904/9649a7b04d82ea946764613b9d54de88.jpg


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