Investing 102

[GregWeld]

Okay -- I'm on a roll tonight --

Here's a good article on Warren Buffet - and dividend investing. We'll have a test to see who reads this -- because there's a really interesting little tidbit in here about the dividends Berkshire gets...Amazing really! When you think about it... let's see if you guys find it as amazing as I did!

http://www.fool.com/investing/dividends-income/2010/05/27/buffetts-a-dividend-investor-why-arent-you.aspx

[Bucketlist2012]

Hey I was just checking in...

I knew i was going to get hammered today...

I did. Oh well...

I will check for Dividends because it is that time for them to come in..

That is another reason i only give direction and not specific assets, because some would have bought, lost their shirts, sold and been mad...

But not if they read the thread completely...Some read what they want to hear...

Great job on the dividend check...Sweet.:cheers:

Well i checked...600 dollars in dividends so far....I would like to say more, but not yet...Should be another 2000 grand coming in soon..

But yes, I did not even watch today that much....I knew it, and just did my regular schedule....but I am sure some people got rattled...

[Bucketlist2012]

One third of it's investment back, every year....

In Nine years , it will be getting it's original investment back EVERY year.

I almost picked up some BRK A at 86,000 back in 2009... I thought better to diversify more...

But I always wonder about that 86,000 buy...

[CRCRFT78]

Wow to get back 1/3 of his investment in dividends and then to eventually get back his initial investment in dividends every year is great. Coke has managed to consistently raise their dividend output by an average of 12% a year. That is definitely a stock to look at and study. It also gets you thinking that even though some stocks seem to be good solid picks, you've got to be able to think outside the box. Just understanding the affects of cyclical vs non-cyclical can have a major affect on your portfolio growth.

[70 chevelle]

Greg some pages back you mentioned looking up upcoming ex dates on seeking alpha. I have scoured that site trying to find that info. Would you mind posting a link to that ?

[toy71camaro]

Great article, totally re-iterates what's been said here...

long term, growth staple companies who pay decent dividends.

i think i heard that before some where? :lateral: :woot:

[toy71camaro]

Ok, here is one i'd like to open for discussion....

Pepsi Vs Coke. (the grand ole debate) but not about flavor! hah

Looking at their current info, they are nearly the same price, dividend is +0.35% in Pepsi's favor.

Total return:
Pep: 3.6%/34.3%/12.6%
KO: 12.4%/87.7%/73.3%

So, going out to the 5yr mark, looks like Coke is the clear total growth winner... but, looking at the 10 yr mark (which, i dont see Schwab has that graph):

Since 1999:
Pep: 87%
KO: 28.7%

The 10 yr charts between the two show that Coke had a very rough patch from 2000 to 2010 when they finally "broke" above their 1999 price.

That seems to me, that PEP, while doesnt have the current growth KO has over the past 5 years, they seem to be much more stable, and more "heading in the right direction".

Whats the census say?

[toy71camaro]

I guess... to somewhat answer my own question...

Perhaps Coke would be "better buy"... for those handful of years, we got our dividends still, and were purchasing shares at a discount. Eventually it "came back up", and now we have more shares when it came around = more money in our account.

then, the next question to answer (myself, not meaning you guys)... is to try and guess which one is going to be the "better guy" the next 10, 20 years.

Both being fairly solid in the past (PEP being a bit more "stable", but, stable can also = less shares = less money), they'll probably end up nearly the same in the end. hah. :D

[GregWeld]

I guess... to somewhat answer my own question...

Perhaps Coke would be "better buy"... for those handful of years, we got our dividends still, and were purchasing shares at a discount. Eventually it "came back up", and now we have more shares when it came around = more money in our account.

then, the next question to answer (myself, not meaning you guys)... is to try and guess which one is going to be the "better guy" the next 10, 20 years.

Both being fairly solid in the past (PEP being a bit more "stable", but, stable can also = less shares = less money), they'll probably end up nearly the same in the end. hah. :D


These kinds of questions are the constant struggle in "investing".... and they really have no answer because nobody has the crystal ball. We can study numbers 'til our brains run out our ears... but that is all in the past.

SO -- I've said it here before. When it comes down to this... PICK THE ONE YOU LIKE. Do ya drink Coke or Pepsi? Choose one. If you have the dough - put some in BOTH. Cause you're not going to be far off the mark with either one IMHO.

Remember that we can manipulate numbers in any way we want... which period of time... EBITDA... P/E.... and blah blah blah. The important lessons of Investing 102 are -- DO SOMETHING... and if that something includes some basic research -- which you just did (and showed it here)... then the final "right answer" is to pick the stock that YOU want to own and feel good about.

[GregWeld]

Personally I own 3000 shares of Coke (KO).... I don't drink either brand - I'm a coffee freak. LOL

When I looked at all the numbers - I just like the Coke brand. No right or wrong choice here. And basically what you're buying here is a steady eddy.

[GregWeld]

Greg some pages back you mentioned looking up upcoming ex dates on seeking alpha. I have scoured that site trying to find that info. Would you mind posting a link to that ?

Here's an easier site to work with for that.


http://www.dividend.com/ex-dividend-dates.php


Seeking Alpha is good "reading" but is kind of a loosely structured bunch of people just writing articles vs a "here's this in this spot always - day in and day out" kind of website. I find good stuff to read and tickle my pea brain on Seeking Alpha... but it's not really a research website.

[GregWeld]

One third of it's investment back, every year....
In Nine years , it will be getting it's original investment back EVERY year.




Isn't that amazing!! It blows my mind. That is over a long hold period of course.. but it shows the power of dividend investing. Ya think Warren cares what the daily stock price is?

So if you were 30 years old - and had bought Coke (KO) and you're now 60 and close to retirement - you'd be getting your original investment back every year in dividends.

[CRCRFT78]

Just my take on the KO vs. PEP debate. I ended up going with Pepsi but I also plan to invest in Coke. Although the numbers are comparable and close I liked the fact that Pepsi also has a hand in the snack food business. Most people will buy a snack to go with their soda when they are on the go. Hopefully that snack company is owned by Pepsi when doing so. I felt that was just another aspect of their business model that could possibly help the stock when soda sales sit idle. I worked in the beverage industry for 8 years and remembered what it was like when I saw salesman supplement their lack of soda sales with other company owned products.

Right or wrong, it got me to think outside the box and look at Pepsi as more than a soda company and consider what may or may not help the business during down times. Not to say that Coke couldn't do the same, it was just another factor to consider along with all the charts.

[toy71camaro]

Awesome guys.. Thanks for the tips..

I know there wasnt necessarily a "right or wrong" answer.. thats not really what i was aiming for...

I was more trying to just compare apples to apples, and see what other "strategies" people might come up with to base their purchases on... Greg pointed out one "buy what you like" (and yes, i didnt put it, but I'm a PEP drinker when i do drink soda, so i would of likely went that way regardless)... but i also wanted to see any other ideas... Such as CRCRFT78 mentioned, thiking "outside" the box, and that PEP is also involved in more things than just "soda". Thanks for pointing that out, I didnt think to consider that. :thumbsup:

Another mental note for me.. aside from the "bulk of the business, consider what "else" they "do" that could supplement their business". perhaps thats why PEP didnt have the large dip that coke had. Soda may have slowed, but snacks may have picked up, and vice versa.

I love "thinking out loud" like this.. sorry if i seem to babble a lot. LOL

[Bucketlist2012]

Isn't that amazing!! It blows my mind. That is over a long hold period of course.. but it shows the power of dividend investing. Ya think Warren cares what the daily stock price is?

So if you were 30 years old - and had bought Coke (KO) and you're now 60 and close to retirement - you'd be getting your original investment back every year in dividends.

Yes..I am going into the family room now to blow my wife's mind...She loves money talk and the strategies we are using...Who benefits most ??? Her..:thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Well -- You guys got me digging around and I see a couple of things... and this is just open mike time -- not a "you should buy X because". This ain't how 102 should work -- it's about thinking and digging for info and doing the "work" so this is a perfect discussion.

When I OVERLAY PEP on KO chart -- they trade "share price wise" in near lockstep....

The 5 year SHARE growth is KO - 47% and PEP at DOWN 3%

10 year KO - up 44% PEP up 22%

That is SHARE PRICE not total return.

KO TOTAL RETURN --- 1 yr 12.4% 3 yr 87.7% 5 yr 73.3%


PEP TOTAL RETURN --- 1 yr 3.6% 3 yr 34.3% 5 yr 12.6%


Now -- I took my own advice and went back to look at all the info of why I chose Coke over Pepsi.... and this is exactly what this thread should be trying to do -- get people THINKING about all this stuff! I love it!!

:woot:

[CRCRFT78]

I also thought to myself that I felt Pepsi had room for growth. Coke has the better looking chart over the various periods of time but I wondered if it reached a point where it may sit idle with a slower growth rate while Pepsi could possibly make a jump in growth. Will it happen? Who knows, but again, I was trying to think outside the box. Either way, I believe you can't go wrong investing in either of the two. Both will be around for the long haul and both will continue to be steady earners, its all a matter of choice.

[toy71camaro]

I cant tell for sure... Im having a tough time getting a chart to show exactly what i want (graph of share price. seems most show growth when comparing two stocks)...

anyhow, it seems as if they two counter each other, as in, if PEP is doing WELL, KO isn't so well, then, a year or two later KO catches up, surpasses PEP, an PEP takes a little "hiatus" for a couple years, then catches back up and surpasses KO, KO takes a little hiatus and repeats.. lol

in the end, it doesnt matter a ton either way.. but just trying to "figure" how to analyze a pair of stocks to try and help me determine which to purchase... (when, if the above seems true, PEP is on the "slide" it seems, so going that rough may result in a continued slide for a while = more shares for less $. couple years from now it will catch back up to KO), and then vice versa...

again, just thinking out load, using these two companies as an example so i can learn to apply my decision making process to other companies when i review them too. :)

Edit... all in all, i am breaking the rule of investing 102.. im comparing "timing" of the buy, which isnt as important as JUST BUYING ONE. lol

[GregWeld]

Either way, I believe you can't go wrong investing in either of the two. Both will be around for the long haul and both will continue to be steady earners, its all a matter of choice.


Personally -- I think that's the most correct statement when comparing these two. Pick one - or pick both - you're reasonably assured that either is a good investment over the long haul.

:thumbsup:

[CRCRFT78]

What you want to remember also is what has been repeated throughout this thread. When the market starts to dip, a lot of investors will panic and sell. That's when you want to buy more. Pepsi/Coke are not here today/gone tomorrow companies. They will take their hits but will continue to move in the right direction. Steady eddies as Greg would say.

[toy71camaro]

Right.. i was just trying better understand the "comparison" process, so i could apply it to the rest of what i compare. I actually picked those two simply because of the article posted yesterday was talking about KO.

Thanks again for just letting me "spill out" my thought/reasoning process. LOL.:lol:



BTW, Greg... How's Bellevue doing? I was up there once as a kid (early 90's). My dads uncle was a VP or some sort of "higher up" at the Bellevue Square Mall. We went and stayed with him for a few days for a visit. :thumbsup: Nice place up there.

[GregWeld]

Edit... all in all, i am breaking the rule of investing 102.. im comparing "timing" of the buy, which isnt as important as JUST BUYING ONE. lol


Albert -- You are doing what this thread has been trying to get people to do... just compare -- think about them (any company) -- scale in if at all possible... and you're not really "timing" the market by seeing that a company may temporarily be down while the other is up... What you need to do when you see something like that is to try to figure out WHY that is so. Dig a little deeper... Google some news -- go back a bit and try to see if there was an "earnings miss" -- or a takeover of another company that has temporarily got the company off track... Try to FIND something that may explain the "issue". Some times you'll find nothing -- and sometimes you'll learn something that makes you like the company even more. In the end -- you're buying a piece of the company and the management - and the products they make.... and you need to feel good about that choice.

If 10 years from now -- you're only up 67% vs the other company up 85%... you really didn't make a "mistake"... and if during that 10 year period there was a point in which the companies were trading down -- and you held your position because you were comfortable owning it.. then that is what really matters.

We're preaching DIVERSITY as well here -- this is just ONE pick out of the 10 plus companies you're going to choose.... If you were at the horse races and you're picks finished 1st -- 3rd -- and 4th... you're still a winner.

[GregWeld]

Right.. i was just trying better understand the "comparison" process, so i could apply it to the rest of what i compare. I actually picked those two simply because of the article posted yesterday was talking about KO.

Thanks again for just letting me "spill out" my thought/reasoning process. LOL.:lol:



BTW, Greg... How's Bellevue doing? I was up there once as a kid (early 90's). My dads uncle was a VP or some sort of "higher up" at the Bellevue Square Mall. We went and stayed with him for a few days for a visit. :thumbsup: Nice place up there.

#1 -- You're doing exactly what these forums are designed to do... BS'n with people = like hanging out in the garage together!

Bellevue -- or as I like to call it -- BLAHview.... I've been here since 1984... I used to be able to see Mount Rainer from downtown -- that view has since been hidden behind all the high-rises! Bellevue Square has doubled or tripled and they now have a sky bridge going across the street to Lincoln Center... a whole 'nother shopping bunch of crap. Kemper Freeman Jr basically owns all of downtown... and he's done a real good job of developing it INHO.

[toy71camaro]

ah, sorry you lost your view. lol.

I remember that mall was pretty snazzy. the "skywalk" sounds familiar. it's been so long since ive been there (was probably 12-13 at the time), have a hard time remember some things.

They were "very well off", and i remember my Aunt taking us and "showing us around town" lol.


Anywho, back to investing 102 i suppose ;)

[toy71camaro]

My next "research"... is to figure out the "diversity" aspect of all this.

ie. what sectors for stocks? what about bonds? and the other "options" (not familiar with any of this yet).

which ones to "play now" and which ones to "wait for a change (invest in the "play now group"), and play later", etc.

[GregWeld]

Here's a real life STEADY EDDY "terbacky" (aka: Sin stock) stock... People poo poo stuff like this because they all want to own the big hitters... That, and nobody is talking about the price per share at the grocery store... LOL


I own 6,500 PHILIP MORRIS (PM) @ todays closing price $84.23 for a total of $547,495.00 market value -- My average cost per share is $68.55 for a total investment of $445,564.60 --- So I have an UNREALIZED capital gain of +$101,930.40


My first buy was 2/03/11 @ $57.80 per share

4 more buys at various levels on the way up for a total of SIX buy ins

My last buy was 2/10/12 @ $80.40 per share

The point here is -- I was scaling in -- I don't really care that the price went UP from where I first bought it -- in fact I'M VERY HAPPY it was doing that! It's doing EXACTLY what I want it to do!

My AVERAGE cost is still only $68.55 per share

And I've collected $8,700.00 in dividends along the way....


Again - everyones actual positions are going to be scaled to THEM... I'm just using a real life actual example to show the affects of scaling in.... and that I just INVESTED in a dividend paying stock that is boring to the maximum.... but I'm very happy owning it. I don't really care whether people are smoking or not (I don't and I hate smoking!) --- it's an INVESTMENT I can live with, even if the buyers of the product can't! :lol:

[Bucketlist2012]

Greg...

Thanks for talking with Albert... He seems young, hungry and smart..

He is one of the only people that bit into the thread I started , and seems to be running with it well..

I was foolish enough to almost start another one, but quickly realized that I was not welcome.. Oh well.

So my lesson learned is that i will comment on this thread and no others..

I learned my lesson. Albert will be the one that runs with it. I said if only one person did it... Albert is it..

Thanks for taking the time to help all of us..

No more new threads...:cheers:

[Sieg]

So I just opened another Traditional IRA last night to stuff $2-3K away for five or so years.

Any creative funding suggestions?

Cash.......boring

ETF's

One good Steady Eddie?

I'm tempted to fund it with PM or McD and watch what happens. http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/smoke.gif http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn2.gif

[96z28ss]

I have a new hatred for mutual funds.

I have 2 401k accounts, one with current employer and one with a previous one that I no longer put money into obviously, so it just sits there. When I say it sits there I REALLY mean it sits there. Its not doing anything.
I'm going to move that account into something I can control and pick what I want and not be limited to a dozen opptions.
The other 401k account is with current employer and I'm putting in $600 a month and its not doing anything. I already sent the CFO a nice email outlining that we need more options, cause the dozen or so options aren't cutting it. Like I told him in the email I'd like to retire some day and not run out of money.

[Flash68]

I already sent the CFO a nice email outlining that we need more options, cause the dozen or so options aren't cutting it. Like I told him in the email I'd like to retire some day and not run out of money.

:lol: I bet that goes over well Bob..

[toy71camaro]

Greg...

Thanks for talking with Albert... He seems young, hungry and smart..

He is one of the only people that bit into the thread I started , and seems to be running with it well..

I was foolish enough to almost start another one, but quickly realized that I was not welcome.. Oh well.

So my lesson learned is that i will comment on this thread and no others..

I learned my lesson. Albert will be the one that runs with it. I said if only one person did it... Albert is it..

Thanks for taking the time to help all of us..

No more new threads...:cheers:

I think the problem was, the few interested were looking for answers, not information/knowledge.

oh well. their loss.. hopefully MY GAIN! hahah ;)

[GregWeld]

So I just opened another Traditional IRA last night to stuff $2-3K away for five or so years.

Any creative funding suggestions?

Cash.......boring

ETF's

One good Steady Eddie?

I'm tempted to fund it with PM or McD and watch what happens. http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/smoke.gif http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn2.gif


Too hard to answer that question without more info... use? Term? Age? Other funds? Etc.

If you're well set already - and middle aged -- go for some gusto... if you're an old coot and have no money and lots of debt -- a different response. :woot:

[96z28ss]

:lol: I bet that goes over well Bob..

It went over pretty good. He came to talk to me personally. Then he gave me the pink slip and told me to get out!!
Just kidding we talked for awhile he explained a few things. Basically they aren't changing the investment stuff. So Im going to let it sit there and collect dust.
The one 401k I do have I'm going to roll it over into a IRA and take control of it and make my employees make me some more employees.

[GregWeld]

I think the problem was, the few interested were looking for answers, not information/knowledge.

oh well. their loss.. hopefully MY GAIN! hahah ;)

Many many lazy people out there.... and they just don't want to have to do ANY work. That's their problem not ours. :thumbsup:

When we're enjoying our well deserved retirement -- they'll be wondering how to downsize their house - their cars - their lives... to fit with the meager amount of money they have to live on. Sad.

[GregWeld]

It went over pretty good. He came to talk to me personally. Then he gave me the pink slip and told me to get out!!
Just kidding we talked for awhile he explained a few things. Basically they aren't changing the investment stuff. So Im going to let it sit there and collect dust.
The one 401k I do have I'm going to roll it over into a IRA and take control of it and make my employees make me some more employees.


Stop contributing to the company 401K and put that same money into a ROTH IRA -- or another 401 that you open. There's no limit on how many you can have... just a limit to how much you can contribute.

As we discussed -- you're going BACKWARDS in the company 401 -- a monkey throwing darts could do better! Even if the company is matching dollar for dollar -- you're going backwards... (and of course they are not!).

[sik68]

If you would oblige, how about a little more Non-Investing 102? A lot has already been said to the effect of paying down debt before investing. My wife is in school, so we're borrowing from the government under their nice ''interest accrues upon disbursement" plans. By the time she graduates, we will have a California-house-sized loan that will even make the numbers Greg is working with look small. :lol: In the meantime, we have a buffer, and are continuing to keep our accounts flat...adding money towards our savings or retirement accounts now will just hurt us later.

Perhaps the experts in here will weigh in more succinctly...


A lot of people say you should attack the loans with the highest APR first. To me, it seems like the mathematically advantageous approach is to pay down the loan with the greatest overall accrual growth.

As an example:
100*5% APR = $5/year
50*8% APR = $4/year
So you pay down the $100 loan until the annual accruals are equal (at $80) then pay them down equally, no?

[GregWeld]

They were "very well off", and i remember my Aunt taking us and "showing us around town" lol.



Bellevue is the Beverly Hills of Washington... there are so many high tech companies here... and national headquarters for many really well known companies. When I start to rattle them off for people -- they're blown away...

Microsoft - Amazon - Starbucks - Costco - Paccar (Kenworth and Peterbilt trucks) - Zillow - Expedia - Nordstrom - Alaska Airlines - Nintendo - T Mobile... just to name a couple.

[toy71camaro]

a couple... hahaha... yeah, i do remember it being pretty nice around there!

[Bucketlist2012]

I have a new hatred for mutual funds.

I have 2 401k accounts, one with current employer and one with a previous one that I no longer put money into obviously, so it just sits there. When I say it sits there I REALLY mean it sits there. Its not doing anything.
I'm going to move that account into something I can control and pick what I want and not be limited to a dozen opptions.
The other 401k account is with current employer and I'm putting in $600 a month and its not doing anything. I already sent the CFO a nice email outlining that we need more options, cause the dozen or so options aren't cutting it. Like I told him in the email I'd like to retire some day and not run out of money.

Go get em boy...i have an old 401K, and i am getting 10% out of that Dog..

Good Hunting on getting your 401K to at least grow over time... It should be doing well, especially right now...Change that puppy soon...:cheers:

[toy71camaro]

Go get em boy...i have an old 401K, and i am getting 10% out of that Dog..

Good Hunting on getting your 401K to at least grow over time... It should be doing well, especially right now...Change that puppy soon...:cheers:

I need to tackle my 401k too. ugh. mutual funds are a whole nother ball game. lol

[Bucketlist2012]

If you would oblige, how about a little more Non-Investing 102? A lot has already been said to the effect of paying down debt before investing. My wife is in school, so we're borrowing from the government under their nice ''interest accrues upon disbursement" plans. By the time she graduates, we will have a California-house-sized loan that will even make the numbers Greg is working with look small. :lol: In the meantime, we have a buffer, and are continuing to keep our accounts flat...adding money towards our savings or retirement accounts now will just hurt us later.

Perhaps the experts in here will weigh in more succinctly...


A lot of people say you should attack the loans with the highest APR first. To me, it seems like the mathematically advantageous approach is to pay down the loan with the greatest overall accrual growth.

As an example:
100*5% APR = $5/year
50*8% APR = $4/year
So you pay down the $100 loan until the annual accruals are equal (at $80) then pay them down equally, no?

Sure mathematically it makes sense...But you have that theory, and then you have Dave Ramsey who believes in the "Debt Snowball", effect of killing the lowest balance first to build up the psychological Victory...

Two different theories to get to the same result...debt free except a mortgage...

I never bought Dave ramsey's stuff, but I did use some techniques to get debt free...I do use and pay credit cards and have ahigh FICO..Ramsey doesn't believe in that, But to answer your question, the debt snowball theory is the other method...Or you attack your highest rate loan first...:cheers:

[Bucketlist2012]

I need to tackle my 401k too. ugh. mutual funds are a whole nother ball game. lol

They are the Dogs of investing...But we need to have them to get company matching, and to have tax deffered assets...

Then the company changes plans and you have to do it all over again..

But we can squeeze as much as we can out of the Dogs...

Most of my money is in Schwab...Is that he best thing to do ????

For me it is....I am in control of it, and it is liquid...

[GregWeld]

If you would oblige, how about a little Non-Investing 102? A lot has already been said to the effect of paying down debt before investing. My wife is in school, so we're borrowing from the government under their nice ''interest accrues upon disbursement" plans. By the time she graduates, we will have a house-sized loan that will even make the numbers Greg is working with look small :lol: In the meantime, we have a buffer, and are continuing to keep our accounts flat...adding money towards our savings or retirement accounts now will just hurt us later.

Perhaps the experts in here will weight in more succinctly...


Greg, a lot of people say you should attack the loans with the highest APR first. To me, it seems like the mathematically advantageous approach is to pay down the loan with the greatest overall accrual growth.

As an example:
100*5% APR = $5/year
50*8% APR = $4/year
So you pay down the $100 loan until the annual accruals are equal then pay them down equally, no?

Ah Steven.... You open a can o'worms my friend!

#1 -- Sorry

#2 -- :thumbsup:

#3 -- I'm not for paying down low interest rate loans... I'm for paying down -- or better yet - not creating - Credit card debt....

So there's about as many opinions on this as there are people. IF -- BIG IF -- you can handle the debt AND save... the savings (especially the kind we're talking about) will help you pay off the debt.

So it's a balancing act. If your cash flow is adequate -- it should actually grow over time -- making the debt a smaller and smaller piece of the pie... and if you're saving at the same time -- that should also GROW...

TIME -- IF YOU'RE YOUNG is the biggest factor in all of this! Savings/INVESTING -- should return you 10% or so compounded over time... that is just HUGE...

Your debt is declining over time... and if they're student loans -- they have a very favorable interest rate that is fixed(?) The problem with most people is that they continue to pile on debt -- and never save... so the best advice to give them is to pay down debt.

Here's my thinking.... If you have 100K in the bank -- and you owe 100K... two years from now you should have 120K in the bank and you should only owe 95K... and this keeps going like this... decreasing debt -- compounded investments. It's why big commercial companies borrow money... because they make money on their money. But they're also very much in control of their cash flow and their expenses and they have CFO's and Boards of Directors watching over these relationships.

Mere mortels don't watch over these things and tend to let them get out of balance. More debt - no savings... totally upside-down!

So if you can't control yourself - and have a bad ass case of the "I wants" -- then even if you pay down your debt.... you're going to be in debt again shortly. So what's the friggin' point. Now you're just older -- getting closer to being retired and you haven't saved/invested. You're screwed and you have nobody to thank but yourself!

SO ---- If you're young -- and IF you think your income - over time - will grow... and your current cash flow is "okay"... then I'd put just a little EXTRA each month on the debt... If you're paying $450 a month -- just write the check for $500 and keep plugging along.... and make sure you are also SAVING NOW every stinking dime that you can. And that's not saving to spend later -- it's real savings for investing.... and when you get a grand -- buy some stock -- get another grand buy some more. As your income rises -- don't pee it away.... INCREASE your savings...

The math is so powerful! Compounded interest -- I did this earlier in the thread -- way back...

TIME -- that's what you need!

1000 now - 7 years later -- 2000 -- 7 more years -- 4000 -- 7 more years -- 8000 -- 7 more years 16,000 -- 7 more years 32,000

So in just 35 years - you're lousy $1000 is now $32,000 -- and the biggest gain was THE LAST 7 YEARS -- not the first 7!

SO if you save a couple grand every year beginning at 21 years of age -- and only save until you're 31 -- you'll have nearly a million at retirement

If you start saving a couple grand a year at 31 and do that every year until you retire - you'll have about half that.

Pretty powerful that thing we call TIME....

[Sieg]

Too hard to answer that question without more info... use? Term? Age? Other funds? Etc.

If you're well set already - and middle aged -- go for some gusto... if you're an old coot and have no money and lots of debt -- a different response. :woot:
I'll be 54 in May, small 12.5 year mortgage, insurance and utilities are the extent of debt. Separate Retirement acct. Personal stock account of which this IRA would represent 2-3%.

Gusto, something that could put a smirk on your face annually.

Or I could just give it Blake up north eh?

[Bucketlist2012]

Many many lazy people out there.... and they just don't want to have to do ANY work. That's their problem not ours. :thumbsup:

When we're enjoying our well deserved retirement -- they'll be wondering how to downsize their house - their cars - their lives... to fit with the meager amount of money they have to live on. Sad.

Albert and Greg...

I got that reality on a new thread today...

" We don't need no stinking money management and investment Help"...Is what i was told...

I said well OK.... I tripled a portfolio in three years but whatever..No I DID NOT TELL THEM THAT...But I was a little upset.

But then I read their posts of turbos, and 2010 trades for 2012 cars, and I realized, give it up Mike...Move on...

So Albert..you found me at the right time...And now you have found the Elite crew here I told you about..

Yes, the others wanted the secret, or the easy answer... The others thought I am a Jerk for thinking their money management skills need work...Well they did, and do need work .

Almost ALL of them need it.. But I am learning when and who to help as not to look like a Jerk..

Because I am not one...If i was , I would NOT have tried to direct people here.. A jerk would have Tried to PLAY top dog on the other site...Haha, NOT ME..I bring you here where I am a Guppy compared to Greg...

But your knowledge was my passion, not my Ego...So I recommended smart people to help you..

For your effort, you will gain greatly...Others will lose long term..But I learned. Other than here I am a deaf Mute from now on, on ALL other sites..I learned :cheers:

[toy71camaro]

Albert and Greg...

I got that reality on a new thread today...

" We don't need no stinking money management and investment Help"...Is what i was told...

I said well OK.... I tripled a portfolio in three years but whatever..No I DID NOT TELL THEM THAT...But I was a little upset.

But then I read their posts of turbos, and 2010 trades for 2012 cars, and I realized, give it up Mike...Move on...

So Albert..you found me at the right time...And now you have found the Elite crew here I told you about..

Yes, they wanted the secret, or the easy answer...And I am a Jerk for thinking their money management skills need work...

A hello, almost ALL of them need it.. But I am learning when and who to help as not to look like a Jerk..

Because I am not one...If i was , I would NOT have tried to direct people here.. A jerk would have Tried to PLAY top dog on the other site...Haha, NOT ME..I bring you here where I am a Guppy compared to Greg...

But your knowledge was my passion, not my Ego...So I recommended smart people to help you..

For your effort, you will gain greatly...Others will lose long term..But I learned. Other than here I am a deaf Mute from now on, on ALL other sites..I learned :cheers:

Don't let a bad apple ruin the tree. let it roll off your back and move on. :) people get jealous of other successful people. its just the way it is.. lol.

[GregWeld]

I'll be 54 in May, small 12.5 year mortgage, insurance and utilities are the extent of debt. Separate Retirement acct. Personal stock account of which this IRA would represent 2-3%.

Gusto, something that could put a smirk on your face annually.

Or I could just give it Blake up north eh?


Drive to the nearest Casino -- put it all on Black....


:willy: :rofl:


You're in good shape... well... not physically... but you have a while longer to live...:unibrow: I'd put it into a good high dividend payer... PM - MO - CHKR - NNN - T - VZ - KMP

They're all 6% and growth (well not so much on T and VZ)...

The dividend will help you compound while you're busy sleeping... and there should be enough growth over 10+ years to bag you near a triple. Then you'll be like Warren Buffet and you'll be getting paid dividends more than you're initial investment!

[Bucketlist2012]

Don't let a bad apple ruin the tree. let it roll off your back and move on. :) people get jealous of other successful people. its just the way it is.. lol.

It is cool Albert...If one person learned something...I am happy...And YOUR smart questions to Greg and your eagerness to actually do the work is refreshing to me and I will bet to Greg and others..

So again welcome, and keep at it...These Guys here are COOL and SMART..Deadly combo...

I am the lucky and somewhat smart guy. So no i am not burned by it.. Luckily i did not start any new thread, and I went through and deleted any posting info...All is good..

Actually if they were not going to study and were just going to ask stupid questions like "lookie lou's" window shopping and not buying, then we are better off they dropped off.. they want to drive through and get the answer..

ATM them the magic bullet.. Instant results and wealth..WHO am I ....TOMMY VU ??? because i can do a MEAN Tommy VU impersonation....You may be too young for Tommy VU...Don Lapre ? Dave the belly Del Dotto ?? LMAO>>

[Bucketlist2012]

Greg's long post about money management a few post ago was beautiful..



I recently bought the Wife a newer car...Paid cash for most of it, but was going to pull the money out and pay for all of it.

But I can leave that money making three times the loan rate...So the loan gets paid and I have two thirds left... But I do hate loans..


Next is the "warren Buffett" truck..I have proven my point at 200K miles on it and 2000 dollars maintinence in the last 5 years ...Only gas, reg, and insurance...

But I have decided to splurge.. But I can, or i would drive the truck forever if I had to...

[70 chevelle]

Here's an easier site to work with for that.


http://www.dividend.com/ex-dividend-dates.php


Seeking Alpha is good "reading" but is kind of a loosely structured bunch of people just writing articles vs a "here's this in this spot always - day in and day out" kind of website. I find good stuff to read and tickle my pea brain on Seeking Alpha... but it's not really a research website.

Thank you.:cheers:

[toy71camaro]

Greg's long post about money management a few post ago was beautiful..



I recently bought the Wife a newer car...Paid cash for most of it, but was going to pull the money out and pay for all of it.

But I can leave that money making three times the loan rate...So the loan gets paid and I have two thirds left... But I do hate loans..


Next is the "warren Buffett" truck..I have proven my point at 200K miles on it and 2000 dollars maintinence in the last 5 years ...Only gas, reg, and insurance...

But I have decided to splurge.. But I can, or i would drive the truck forever if I had to...

Want to give away the old truck? hahaha ;)


All kidding aside. I do hope the questions i do ask here are seen as me trying to learn, not just for quick answers, but insight as to "why" you came up the the answer you did....

Im a quick learner, I soak things in, and absorb a good portion of it. I'm analytical, and simplistic. The fastest/easiest approach is my goal (not just talking about investing)... Thats what makes me pretty good at my normal job (Q/A Supervisor for a small software firm.. but started out in tech support, and still do a good portion of it).

[Sieg]

Drive to the nearest Casino -- put it all on Black....


:willy: :rofl:


You're in good shape... well... not physically... but you have a while longer to live...:unibrow: I'd put it into a good high dividend payer... PM - MO - CHKR - NNN - T - VZ - KMP

They're all 6% and growth (well not so much on T and VZ)...

The dividend will help you compound while you're busy sleeping... and there should be enough growth over 10+ years to bag you near a triple. Then you'll be like Warren Buffet and you'll be getting paid dividends more than you're initial investment!

Not on maple leaf red?

I won't ever over-estimate my longevity, lost too many too soon. The next breath is a gift, not an entitlement. :thumbsup:

The stock account already has MO - T - VZ........PM is naughty........I like it. But I'll research the others and see if they push the fun button. :D

Again, thank you for your enthusiastic, educational, real-world contributions to the cause. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Not on maple leaf red?

I won't ever over-estimate my longevity, lost too many too soon. The next breath is a gift, not an entitlement. :thumbsup:

The stock account already has MO - T - VZ........PM is naughty........I like it. But I'll research the others and see if they push the fun button. :D

Again, thank you for your enthusiastic, educational, real-world contributions to the cause. :thumbsup:


Seriously I don't like to recommend names... It makes me uncomfortable and just is not my gig. I'm better at the "thinking" part.. and then you get to choose on your own. I actually like the comparison conversation where we can just drill down on a couple names, over the "what should I do" kinda conversations.

Glad to see you have some good names going already:thumbsup:

[mdprovee]

Hey Greg,

I wanted to say thanks for all this info. I have been thinking about what you are saying, or typing. I met with my advisor, and I have made alot of changes. I have showed him the very little info I have learned, and some of yours, We have made the changes and now no looking back.

[GregWeld]

Hey Greg,

I wanted to say thanks for all this info. I have been thinking about what you are saying, or typing. I met with my advisor, and I have made alot of changes. I have showed him the very little info I have learned, and some of yours, We have made the changes and now no looking back.

Now we're talking!! Good to hear Mike... Hope your broker didn't think that I'm a total a hole fool! :D

Laura needs to retire rich so we can all go racing off into the wild blue yonder!

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAA!


Hey -- you going to be at RTTC?? Bobby B - and Tim "the tool" Bruning and I are headed down Wednesday -- be in San Fran to pick up the roadster from Brizio -- and then off to Bakertucky fo' some finger lickin' BBQ at Ironworks on Thursday.

[GregWeld]

All kidding aside. I do hope the questions i do ask here are seen as me trying to learn, not just for quick answers, but insight as to "why" you came up the the answer you did....

You're questions are GREAT!

Keep 'em comin' --- they make me have to think! I don't do that much of it.... :rolleyes:

[Bucketlist2012]

Not on maple leaf red?

I won't ever over-estimate my longevity, lost too many too soon. The next breath is a gift, not an entitlement. :thumbsup:

The stock account already has MO - T - VZ........PM is naughty........I like it. But I'll research the others and see if they push the fun button. :D

Again, thank you for your enthusiastic, educational, real-world contributions to the cause. :thumbsup:

I have planned a lifetime for a long and wealthy lifetime..

Two years ago, I almost died twice....We are all on borrowed Time..

I am working on the "Balance' now... I have enough, how much do I spend and not worry ?

Tough call, but Compound Interest and TIME, have given me the tools and the money to at 52, to be able to walk away from working, and to start Living.. Slightly less healthy(brain and heart), but still healthy enough to start using this wealth before I end up dying...

Well not all of It....I am wired to always have buckets of assets somewhere..

But I love this crazy thread...:lateral: :cheers: :woot:

[GregWeld]

Here's why I love dividends.... the market is off a bit --- so what?!?!

I check the Schwab account used for examples here.... and bada bing bada boom... I'm a happy guy today! :lol:


03/01/2012 KFN KKR FINANCIAL HLDGS LLC REIT
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$2,700.00

03/01/2012 JPM+I JPMORGAN CHASE 8.625%PFDDEP SHS REPSTG 1/400 NON
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$4,042.97

03/01/2012 CHKR CHESAPEAKE GRANITE WASH
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$7,277.00


NOTE THE DIFFERENCE IN DIVIDENDS --- KFN -- "ORD DIV" (Ordinary Dividend) that's normal income tax rates! The other two are QUALIFIED DIV -- QUALIFIED DIVIDENDS are taxed at 15% !! Make sure you know the difference in these and check BEFORE YOU BUY -- if the names are held in an ordinary account.

SOME REITS (Real Estate Investment Trusts) are considered a "return of capital" so aren't taxed until they've returned all of your capital -- and after that the "dividend" would then be income... So my point here is -- you need to know these differences BEFORE you end up with an income event you didn't plan for.

[toy71camaro]

Sweet!

I just sold off one of my ETF's in my roth, since it consisted of a bunch of companies i was planning to buy anyway. lol. Then i could take full advantage of their dividends. also transferred the remaining amount i needed to max out the ROTH for 2011 contributions.

So, i'll have about $4500 to work with... and 35yrs for ROI :D

Thinking of going $1k/each with: MO, T, CVX, PEP. that going to be diversified enough to start? (have about $1k in MCD already, and a few hundred in tech stuff, CSCO, AAPL, MSFT).

Also found out Sharebuilder doesnt allow LP stocks.. so no KMP for me. :(

Note: I am doing all this under my ROTH IRA.

I still have a little left over, any certain industry/sector/area i should work on for more balance?

[toy71camaro]

Funny..... just noticed SeekingAlpha published a report/article today on 5 stocks to "buy and hold"... MCD, PEP and MO were all on there... now I feel I'm following "the masses". lol :wow:

But, I didn't let the article persuade me. That's the key diff.:thumbsup:

[sik68]

Man, this thread moves fast! Thanks for answering my loan interest questions above solar & greg!

[WSSix]

Finally made some progress on my end though nothing great. I moved the money in my Roth around so I'll be able to purchase the stocks I choose soon. Hopefully sometime towards the end of next week. I have to go blow some stuff up half a mile underground at the beginning of next week so we will see what the second half of the week brings.

Also, I found out I already have a brokerage account with Fidelity. Turns out that my ESPP plan simply takes money from me every pay check and then puts it into an account that twice a year then purchases company stock for me. The company stock is then in the brokerage account. The "ESPP account" is simply a holding account for the twice a year purchase of the stock. I thought the ESPP account was all by itself. So anyway, I can link a bank account to my brokerage account and purchase stock that way. Unfortunately, my 401k account can't be linked to a brokerage account. I'm stuck with choosing from a list of mutual funds. No big deal though, I get sweet company matches.

I'm also doing even better than I previously though in terms of money saved towards retirement. Good day overall.

[GregWeld]

Good for you Trey!


Hey -- from one guy that has blown up his fair share of stuff, to another... be careful out there!

Fire in the hole! :D

[XLexusTech]

I hate carrying Debt,,, 0 credit card debt, paid off the student loans.... have cash in the S&P 500, some basic Div stocks, MCD JNJ XOM. All DRIP's.... and some tax free Muni.. + ESPP @ 15 % .....

Have a home that's underwater.. a HELOC @ 9% interest .. which yields a tax deduction on the interest..... do I take some of the money and pay off the HELOC .. which will still leave the house underwater...... Nobody wants to help anyone with some money in the bank and current on thier loans... its BS.. a bad loan is a bad loan.. (BTW the HELOC is from the 80% 20% I got to buy the house... not from cash taken out...

[GregWeld]

So - We all know that the devil is in the details! Right? I mean - that's got to be the 3rd oldest saying in the universe!


So I was looking at all these "total return" numbers and trying to find the differences in calculations from one place to another... and I still haven't figured it out -- but something else has always bothered me on the Schwab website.

When you pull up a total return tab in Schwab -- it is accompanied with a chart showing the "hypothetical growth of 10,000" -- and I always wondered why the chart never quite "matched up" with the TOTAL RETURN numbers shown.

I mean - if 10 grand is shown growing to 15,000 grand over 5 years -- that's 50% growth - but the total return number might say it "returned" 100%...

I then actually read the "fine print".... the Total Return is calculated using reinvested dividends.... The GRAPH is only showing share price growth with NO reinvested dividends. Go figure. :rolleyes:



The Total Return is the rate of return representing the price appreciation of a stock with cash dividends reinvested on the pay date for the most recent 1, 3 and 5 fiscal years.

This growth of 10,000 graph represents the growth of a hypothetical investment of $10,000. It does not assume reinvestment of dividends with capital gains.

[GregWeld]

I hate carrying Debt,,, 0 credit card debt, paid off the student loans.... have cash in the S&P 500, some basic Div stocks, MCD JNJ XOM. All DRIP's.... and some tax free Muni.. + ESPP @ 15 % .....

Have a home that's underwater.. a HELOC @ 9% interest .. which yields a tax deduction on the interest..... do I take some of the money and pay off the HELOC .. which will still leave the house underwater...... Nobody wants to help anyone with some money in the bank and current on thier loans... its BS.. a bad loan is a bad loan.. (BTW the HELOC is from the 80% 20% I got to buy the house... not from cash taken out...


Wow! What a great question!! Not sure I can answer it... but I will discuss "my" thinking about it.

#1 -- Your real interest rate depends on your income tax rate... So we can't do any real math -- and frankly -- for this discussion - we don't really need to.

#2 -- 9% is crazy stupid interest to be paying -- on the surface -- but that bigger number is also reaping a bigger tax benefit (see #1) so while the base number seems "stupid" -- it might not be as bad as you think.

#3 -- The house being under water really isn't as important as you think it is. Yeah -- it's under water now... and yeah -- nobody knows when the market is going to crawl it's way back... but eventually you're going to gain on that "deficit". And -- you have to live somewhere... so right now you're paying rent instead of making headway on the mortgage and building "equity".

#4 -- I wouldn't pull money out of savings or anywhere else -- just to put it on an underwater mortgage... UNLESS.... Unless you could refi the house and get a under 4% 30 year fixed rate mortgage -- that was going to allow you to put that money BACK in short order... and then continue to save every month from here out.

So if you could pay down the mortgage and get a new 80% mortgage you might be ahead over the VERY long run. Either way -- you're stuck in your house until the market rebounds.... Because in the end - you've still (currently) paid more than the house is worth regardless of the financing.

Does that make sense?

SO ----- you're making money --- probably at a faster rate -- on your INVESTMENTS than you are on your house rebounding (big if right now). The more you make on your investments the better off you are in the long run because of the compounding. And as those grow - and hopefully the house starts to gain some ground too -- the difference in the value of the house is shrinks. As it gets closer to what you owe -- and you have more CASH ASSETS you become a better credit risk... If your investments continue to compound -- you might be able to pull out far less to do a refi.

I think the biggest "item" here --- is that regardless of the interest rate - you're still sinking money into an asset that has no real value... CASH is king (cash is any salable asset in my book - and the house "isn't" one!)... and just to save a bit (not sure how much because we have no numbers to work with) on the monthly payment doesn't really help you out much... ya still owe the dough.

Ordinarily -- you'd say anything you're not paying out monthly is money saved and would be a good thing. But to try to fil a hole in a big bucket that you can't really fill up ain't going to do you much good. I think you're better off sitting tight and hope that the market starts to go your way.


So just a "real life" example --- I had bought a condo in Tempe area for the kids to live in while attending ASU... we paid $307K for it in 2007... the market since went south --- and I had paid cash for this property. I just sold it and closed last week... for $110K. It really doesn't make any difference whether I owned it - or was making payments or anything else... it's still a LOSS. Period. If I was living there and making payments... I'd be underwater -- but I have to live somewhere.... and I wouldn't actually be loosing the money (yet) - ya don't lose til ya sell.... And if the market came back to say $175K --- if I was to sell - I'd have lost "less"....

Now -- as above -- by having all that cash in the place -- I also had an "opportunity cost" attached to that money. I wasn't making ANY income off that money -- and there is a real cost associated with that. Had I been making money off the $307 - let's say I financed $250K.... and I'd have made 10% per year -- $25K - over the 5 years -- that's $125K (not compounded even!). Less the financing costs... and less the tax deduction for the interest rate paid etc... I think I'd have been ahead (not much) if I'd have made payments!

[toy71camaro]

So - We all know that the devil is in the details! Right? I mean - that's got to be the 3rd oldest saying in the universe!


So I was looking at all these "total return" numbers and trying to find the differences in calculations from one place to another... and I still haven't figured it out -- but something else has always bothered me on the Schwab website.

When you pull up a total return tab in Schwab -- it is accompanied with a chart showing the "hypothetical growth of 10,000" -- and I always wondered why the chart never quite "matched up" with the TOTAL RETURN numbers shown.

I mean - if 10 grand is shown growing to 15,000 grand over 5 years -- that's 50% growth - but the total return number might say it "returned" 100%...

I then actually read the "fine print".... the Total Return is calculated using reinvested dividends.... The GRAPH is only showing share price growth with NO reinvested dividends. Go figure. :rolleyes:



The Total Return is the rate of return representing the price appreciation of a stock with cash dividends reinvested on the pay date for the most recent 1, 3 and 5 fiscal years.

This growth of 10,000 graph represents the growth of a hypothetical investment of $10,000. It does not assume reinvestment of dividends with capital gains.

Good catch.. .i was wondering why the two didnt really jive together. but i didnt look THAT close at it. but knew something just wasnt quite right... thanks, now i know :)

[GregWeld]

Hey Albert! I've been investing for 30+ years and never figured it out... never took the time to actually look at it. You guys make me dig around for info etc with your questions -- so see there! You guys made ME learn something!!

:rofl: :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

So I just opened another Traditional IRA last night to stuff $2-3K away for five or so years.

Any creative funding suggestions?

Cash.......boring

ETF's

One good Steady Eddie?

I'm tempted to fund it with PM or McD and watch what happens. http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/smoke.gif http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn2.gif
So here's my creative solution to funding the IRA. My 13 year old son has Chron's which limits many young kid activities, he's also TAG level IQ and an Xbox Modern Warefare or similar junkie. I don't love the Xbox addiction but the Chron's limits normal sports and outdoor activities to a degree so.....

He's very strong in math and memory recall so I decided I'b buy something he could relate to and turn it into a learning experience that will hopefully pay off in his lifetime. He's 13 I'm heading to 54 so he's going to need to cover his own butt earlier than I had too. :D

I stumbled across GME (Gamestop Corp) which is a company he is very familiar with. Besides being a relatively successful company that pays a 2.6% dividend they just announced they'll be marketing used Apple equipment so I funded the IRA with 100 shares of GME.

I came home tonight and sat him down on his Apple AirBook and we created his Yahoo account and stock portfolio with GME, DJI/S&P/NAS for him and explained in detail my reasoning behind the stock selection and the potential upsides of their new market venture so he can follow the "potential" growth of the investment and begin learning the world of investing and compounding at a "leveraging" age.

The best part of the whole experience was I manage to hold his attention the entire time. Then I took him to the Lat-G Investing 102 thread and explained how it all started and gave him some background on the gentleman responsible for it.

Hopefully the seed sprouts.

:lateral:

[XLexusTech]

Wow! What a great question!! Not sure I can answer it... but I will discuss "my" thinking about it.

#1 -- Your real interest rate depends on your income tax rate... So we can't do any real math -- and frankly -- for this discussion - we don't really need to.

#2 -- 9% is crazy stupid interest to be paying -- on the surface -- but that bigger number is also reaping a bigger tax benefit (see #1) so while the base number seems "stupid" -- it might not be as bad as you think.

#3 -- The house being under water really isn't as important as you think it is. Yeah -- it's under water now... and yeah -- nobody knows when the market is going to crawl it's way back... but eventually you're going to gain on that "deficit". And -- you have to live somewhere... so right now you're paying rent instead of making headway on the mortgage and building "equity".

#4 -- I wouldn't pull money out of savings or anywhere else -- just to put it on an underwater mortgage... UNLESS.... Unless you could refi the house and get a under 4% 30 year fixed rate mortgage -- that was going to allow you to put that money BACK in short order... and then continue to save every month from here out.

So if you could pay down the mortgage and get a new 80% mortgage you might be ahead over the VERY long run. Either way -- you're stuck in your house until the market rebounds.... Because in the end - you've still (currently) paid more than the house is worth regardless of the financing.

Does that make sense?

SO ----- you're making money --- probably at a faster rate -- on your INVESTMENTS than you are on your house rebounding (big if right now). The more you make on your investments the better off you are in the long run because of the compounding. And as those grow - and hopefully the house starts to gain some ground too -- the difference in the value of the house is shrinks. As it gets closer to what you owe -- and you have more CASH ASSETS you become a better credit risk... If your investments continue to compound -- you might be able to pull out far less to do a refi.

I think the biggest "item" here --- is that regardless of the interest rate - you're still sinking money into an asset that has no real value... CASH is king (cash is any salable asset in my book - and the house "isn't" one!)... and just to save a bit (not sure how much because we have no numbers to work with) on the monthly payment doesn't really help you out much... ya still owe the dough.

Ordinarily -- you'd say anything you're not paying out monthly is money saved and would be a good thing. But to try to fil a hole in a big bucket that you can't really fill up ain't going to do you much good. I think you're better off sitting tight and hope that the market starts to go your way.


So just a "real life" example --- I had bought a condo in Tempe area for the kids to live in while attending ASU... we paid $307K for it in 2007... the market since went south --- and I had paid cash for this property. I just sold it and closed last week... for $110K. It really doesn't make any difference whether I owned it - or was making payments or anything else... it's still a LOSS. Period. If I was living there and making payments... I'd be underwater -- but I have to live somewhere.... and I wouldn't actually be loosing the money (yet) - ya don't lose til ya sell.... And if the market came back to say $175K --- if I was to sell - I'd have lost "less"....

Now -- as above -- by having all that cash in the place -- I also had an "opportunity cost" attached to that money. I wasn't making ANY income off that money -- and there is a real cost associated with that. Had I been making money off the $307 - let's say I financed $250K.... and I'd have made 10% per year -- $25K - over the 5 years -- that's $125K (not compounded even!). Less the financing costs... and less the tax deduction for the interest rate paid etc... I think I'd have been ahead (not much) if I'd have made payments!

Thanks.. Greg... ok Phase II... (your answer triggered this) I also have a Condo that I own same loan situation 80/20 underwater... the HELOC is at 8.5... Same situation.. i pay off the HELOC and its still under water.... I rent it out and have so for about 5 years...it just about break even annually... give of take a few hundred bucks..... do I pay off that HELOC?

[WSSix]

Good deal Seig. Get them started early so that they can take advantage of their age and hopefully when they start making money on their own you can point to the account and say remember what we started with and see where it is now. I think a lot of young people don't get into investing/saving simply because they don't see an immediate return on that effort. Why save your money and earn a few more dollars on it when you could have bought a cool new car or gone on that overseas vacation etc? Good job in starting him early.

[Sieg]

Thanks Trey - He's a sleeper when is comes to rat-holing his gift money. I could see his wheels turning last night so I'm looking forward to the watching the project over the next few months.

[pw2006]

Great idea Seig! My 5yo daughter asked me if when she turns 7 can she help me pay bills and "do that stock stuff" with me. I was checking out some of Schwab's training classes the other day, and they offer a workshop called "Raising Money Wise Kids". I've taken a few of their workshops on options, and they are pretty good.

Here is their link:
http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/resource_center/workshops_videos/branch_workshops#

...and here's a list of their Financial Essentials workshops:
Behavioral Finance: How Emotions Impact Financial Decisions
College Savings Options
ETFs Explained
Get Started With Investing
Put Schwab to Work for You
Put Your Investment Plan Into Action
Raising Money-Wise Kids
Spend and Manage Debt Wisely
Take Charge of Your Money: Savings Fundamentals
Understanding ETFs
What Works: A Time-Tested Approach to Investing
Why Everyone Needs an Estate Plan

[mdprovee]

Hey -- you going to be at RTTC?? Bobby B - and Tim "the tool" Bruning and I are headed down Wednesday -- be in San Fran to pick up the roadster from Brizio -- and then off to Bakertucky fo' some finger lickin' BBQ at Ironworks on Thursday.

Unfortunately we are not going this year, wasn't in the cards. Hope you guys have fun, take lots of pictures. Congrats on you hot rod!! Enjoy driving it. We will catch you next time you are down here. Dinner on us.

[GregWeld]

Thanks.. Greg... ok Phase II... (your answer triggered this) I also have a Condo that I own same loan situation 80/20 underwater... the HELOC is at 8.5... Same situation.. i pay off the HELOC and its still under water.... I rent it out and have so for about 5 years...it just about break even annually... give of take a few hundred bucks..... do I pay off that HELOC?


NO -- Someone else is already doing that for you.... the renter!

Take the write off.... let the render spend his money paying down your mortgage... eventually the property will be cash flow positive and hopefully will also increase in value. Meantime your cash should be earning money at a separate rate...

[toy71camaro]

Sweet!

I just sold off one of my ETF's in my roth, since it consisted of a bunch of companies i was planning to buy anyway. lol. Then i could take full advantage of their dividends. also transferred the remaining amount i needed to max out the ROTH for 2011 contributions.

So, i'll have about $4500 to work with... and 35yrs for ROI :D

Thinking of going $1k/each with: MO, T, CVX, PEP. that going to be diversified enough to start? (have about $1k in MCD already, and a few hundred in tech stuff, CSCO, AAPL, MSFT).

Also found out Sharebuilder doesnt allow LP stocks.. so no KMP for me. :(

Note: I am doing all this under my ROTH IRA.

I still have a little left over, any certain industry/sector/area i should work on for more balance?


This question may of gotten over looked....

anyhow.. what's people opinion on balance? and/or diversity? not diverse enough? too reliant on "consumer purchase"?

[XLexusTech]

I was told for dividend investment you should spread out over industries...

MCD fast food
IBM Tech
COKE Bev
XOX Fuel...
JNJ Goods..

Anything else One should consider? Was hoping for like a to 10 that you might invest in equally...

Some I am considering.. Chevron, Microsoft,

What about the next big thing... Yelp? facebook... REDBOX... could they be the next GOOG

[GregWeld]

This question may of gotten over looked....

anyhow.. what's people opinion on balance? and/or diversity? not diverse enough? too reliant on "consumer purchase"?




Looks okay to me.

But yes... you don't have enough diversity... so I'd put new money to work in other areas than where you are now. You don't have any utilities - financials - industrials - healthcare... etc.

Lists of sectors are "everywhere" if you just google - or look on Schwab etc. and then see where you're at and what you're missing. Diversity DOES NOT mean you have to be in everything or ALL sectors -- just don't pile in all tech or all healthcare etc. You're pretty tech -- although I'd call MSFT and CSCO and INTC - "old tech"...

[GregWeld]

These "underwater mortgage" questions got me thinking about all the variations etc that must be out there... and I came to an interesting "investing 102" parallel....

Buying a house is a big deal. Huge. We sometimes don't treat it that way - but it is a MAJOR investment and commitment. So maybe the parallel is that a home is like buying a stock. You have to really like it before you buy it - it might not always go up - just because it did so in the past.... so, like a stock, you need to want to love it and want to be in it through good times and bad.

The Sector we mention all the time could be thought of as the city or neighborhood.... better think about the "hood" because you might be there awhile! And like a house -- you don't want to have to sell it in a down market -- so don't put all your cash into something that clearly might not be so "liquid".

In fact.... You may choose to (like a stock in a down market) add on to the house or remodel it because you're in it for the long haul and know that eventually it will pay off. And the dividend in a home is that you are living "somewhere" - regardless of the cash value at the time --- just like the dividend will pay you every quarter regardless of the stocks daily price.

All of this -- of course -- is based on having made a good purchase in the first place. So if you were in love with the home and city and neighborhood when you bought - then you don't mind living there for awhile. If you bough just based on you thought the house would immediately double - and you hate the place... and it didn't double... Well... then you're a weak holder and will sell at a loss the first chance you (you - being anyone, not a particular "you") get.

[toy71camaro]

Thanks for the feedback guys. :thumbsup:

I will look on Schwab to see what the show for the different sectors.. :)

i was looking at utilities, and they seemed so up/down. I wasnt sure if i would be better off diving into a more "steady eddie" (ie. PEP) vs what i seen in the utilities sector (PG&E, Edison, etc).

[GregWeld]

Thanks for the feedback guys. :thumbsup:

I will look on Schwab to see what the show for the different sectors.. :)

i was looking at utilities, and they seemed so up/down. I wasnt sure if i would be better off diving into a more "steady eddie" (ie. PEP) vs what i seen in the utilities sector (PG&E, Edison, etc).



Just kind of poking you here a bit... so please don't take this personally since we've never met -- and you have to know me to understand my "personality"....

For Investing 102 --- I don't care what anyone buys - or doesn't buy... and I'm never pushing or suggesting any stocks or bonds... only the way you THINK about investing -- and what to look for etc. I use my portfolio as examples only and try to incorporate a "here's a way to look at X".

To compare Pepsi (PEP) and Con Edison (ED) and say that they seem so up and down... kind of tells me that you need to keep reading this thread... cause you're missing something. :lol:

ED has a 1 year total return of 22.7% - 3 year of 92.5% - 5 year of 57% and pays a 4.15% dividend based on current price

PEP has a 1 year total return of 3.3% - 3 year of 47.5% - 5 year of 15.1% and pays a 3.29% dividend based on current price.

So --- over three years you'd have doubled your money in ED and only been up 50% in PEP... and over 5 years you'd be 3 times ahead of PEP...

I'm only picking on you here because this is a great example to use... so again -- please don't take this personally. I'm using it as an INVESTING 102 example for everyone that reads - because if we're not all learning something then we're just wasting our time. Right? :cheers:

[toy71camaro]

LOL. What the hell was i looking at then...

I must of been comparing something else.. I dont have my notes in front of me at the moment.

Perhaps I mixed up ED in my head with a different one i was looking at. Since I've looked at so many lately. :wow:

And true, I am not looking to you for the solution (ie. WHAT stock to buy). with the last question i was merely trying to figure out if i needed more diversification to better "prepare" my investments for the "future".

And no worries, nothin personal at all. we are all learning here. I never mind being an example of either something good or bad. :rofl:

I did feel that i was a little to "consumer purchase" heavy (MCD, PEP, etc), which is why i brought it up in the first place. heheh :)

Thanks again for your help. :thumbsup: :hail:

[GregWeld]

LOL. What the hell was i looking at then...

I must of been comparing something else.. I dont have my notes in front of me at the moment.

Perhaps I mixed up ED in my head with a different one i was looking at. Since I've looked at so many lately. :wow:

And true, I am not looking to you for the solution (ie. WHAT stock to buy). with the last question i was merely trying to figure out if i needed more diversification to better "prepare" my investments for the "future".

And no worries, nothin personal at all. we are all learning here. I never mind being an example of either something good or bad. :rofl:

I did feel that i was a little to "consumer purchase" heavy (MCD, PEP, etc), which is why i brought it up in the first place. heheh :)

Thanks again for your help. :thumbsup: :hail:

Trust me --- I have the same issue and have to look and triple check myself all the time... This is just a great example to have used.

Yes you're a bit lopsided on consumer stocks -- but that can be okay IF we're truly in a turnaround in the economy. However... I wouldn't continue to add to your lopsidedness! Thus the diversify "push".

All of you - trust me when I tell you that you'll be happy to be diversified! You feel like a real sap when all your "tech" (substitute ANY sector here) is flying and you're looking at your "laggards" and questioning why you're in those POS names..... and then --- a year goes by and it's the sector that was flying that sucks and your laggards are saving your butt. The biggest problem is that we have real short term memory!

In 2011 - we had down 400 point days and up 500 point days.... On those big down days it was my BOND portfolio that was going UP. So I look at the money and think -- Okay -- I have "X" amount of dough - part of it was down X and part of it was UP X... so overall -- not too bad.

We go to some cocktail party -- and some guy starts yapping about how much he's made doing blah blah blah.... and you compare yourself to him and think "WTF! I'm only up 10% and this bozo is doubling his money". Ask yourself to make a note and check back on how well he's doing next year and the year after that. Usually they disappear into thin air and you never see him again. It's the classic tortoise and the hare.... Ya just want to win in the end - not just for tomorrow. Diversify. Invest, don't trade yourself to death trying to chase the next hot deal. :lateral: :cheers:

[toy71camaro]

excellent point... thats what i need to look into also, is the whole "yin/yang" thing... what "areas" should be looked into for a failing market to "pick up the slack".. like you mentioned, bonds were UP while market was done (and i presume, vice versa).

I'm going to take a look at Scwhabs website further and see if they offer any sort of guidance/classes/stuff on diversification amongst things "outside" of "just stocks".

[pw2006]

Hi Albert-
Here's the link to Schwab's workshops.
http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/resource_center/workshops_videos/branch_workshops#

Here's one that might be what you are looking for:
Advice at Schwab
Learn key concepts to build and maintain a diversified portfolio along with the range of investment help and guidance available through Schwab. From a managed mutual fund or Exchange Traded Funds to guidance from a local advisor, we will explore the level of investment help that may be right for you.

Speaking of diversification... my bond knowledge kinda sucks so I am taking the following workshops.

Practical Bond Strategies
As an investor, you may be asking: Should I invest in bonds? Should I worry if interest rates rise? How can I generate income? In this workshop, we'll address the potential risks and rewards of bond investing and provide a guidance framework you can use to build a sound bond portfolio.

Muni Bonds: Investing Wisely Today
Tax-free returns. Relative safety. Convenience. There are many reasons to include municipal bonds in your portfolio. At this workshop, we’ll provide an update on the current fixed income environment, with a special focus on the municipal markets. We’ll also review the risks and rewards of investing in municipal bonds, and share our fixed income tools and resources, so you can make well-informed decisions.

Bond Investing: Beyond the Basics
Concerned about the bond market and how it might impact your portfolio? Do you want to become a savvier bond investor? Learn about the structure of the bond market, sophisticated investing strategies, and tools to help you invest with confidence.

Other brokers likely have similar training, I just happen to be comfortable with Schwab's no sales pitch approach. :cheers:

[toy71camaro]

Hi Albert-
Here's the link to Schwab's workshops.
http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/resource_center/workshops_videos/branch_workshops#

Here's one that might be what you are looking for:
Advice at Schwab
Learn key concepts to build and maintain a diversified portfolio along with the range of investment help and guidance available through Schwab. From a managed mutual fund or Exchange Traded Funds to guidance from a local advisor, we will explore the level of investment help that may be right for you.

Speaking of diversification... my bond knowledge kinda sucks so I am taking the following workshops.

Practical Bond Strategies
As an investor, you may be asking: Should I invest in bonds? Should I worry if interest rates rise? How can I generate income? In this workshop, we'll address the potential risks and rewards of bond investing and provide a guidance framework you can use to build a sound bond portfolio.

Muni Bonds: Investing Wisely Today
Tax-free returns. Relative safety. Convenience. There are many reasons to include municipal bonds in your portfolio. At this workshop, we’ll provide an update on the current fixed income environment, with a special focus on the municipal markets. We’ll also review the risks and rewards of investing in municipal bonds, and share our fixed income tools and resources, so you can make well-informed decisions.

Bond Investing: Beyond the Basics
Concerned about the bond market and how it might impact your portfolio? Do you want to become a savvier bond investor? Learn about the structure of the bond market, sophisticated investing strategies, and tools to help you invest with confidence.

Other brokers likely have similar training, I just happen to be comfortable with Schwab's no sales pitch approach. :cheers:

awesome! Thanks! I was just reviewing their "learning Center" stuff. I ended up signing up for Schwab as well last week.

[lmnop]

These "underwater mortgage" questions got me thinking about all the variations etc that must be out there... and I came to an interesting "investing 102" parallel....

Buying a house is a big deal. Huge. We sometimes don't treat it that way - but it is a MAJOR investment and commitment. So maybe the parallel is that a home is like buying a stock. You have to really like it before you buy it - it might not always go up - just because it did so in the past.... so, like a stock, you need to want to love it and want to be in it through good times and bad.

The Sector we mention all the time could be thought of as the city or neighborhood.... better think about the "hood" because you might be there awhile! And like a house -- you don't want to have to sell it in a down market -- so don't put all your cash into something that clearly might not be so "liquid".

In fact.... You may choose to (like a stock in a down market) add on to the house or remodel it because you're in it for the long haul and know that eventually it will pay off. And the dividend in a home is that you are living "somewhere" - regardless of the cash value at the time --- just like the dividend will pay you every quarter regardless of the stocks daily price.

All of this -- of course -- is based on having made a good purchase in the first place. So if you were in love with the home and city and neighborhood when you bought - then you don't mind living there for awhile. If you bough just based on you thought the house would immediately double - and you hate the place... and it didn't double... Well... then you're a weak holder and will sell at a loss the first chance you (you - being anyone, not a particular "you") get.

Greg
This is great advice and is exactly the way I have looked at investing in real estate. I have done okay by buying renovation projects and putting a ton of work in and selling them. But I have never purchased a property that I wouldn't live in and it has served me well. I am like your friend that you mentioned about a 100 pages ago who started out this way and now has apartments and a 12mil house. I am just minus the apartments and the mansion. Wanted to let you know I am still reading and learning I haven't invested in the market yet but I am getting closer. Thanks again for all the candid and great info.
Ray

[GregWeld]

awesome! Thanks! I was just reviewing their "learning Center" stuff. I ended up signing up for Schwab as well last week.

Don't think you need BONDS unless you're almost dead like I am... and retired.
They're far riskier than you think... unless you plan to hold to maturity (like I do). The returns - even though they're tax free - are ridiculously low... and if you hold to maturity you get no growth on your capital.

I hold them as a hedge - and for INCOME tax free which I need because of all my other "stuff"... otherwise I'd never buy them.

Just my .02 worth.

If I was younger and had the energy and drive and wanted to grow my dough and needed diversification -- I'd by loading the boat with cheap (200K to 250K) rental houses... with fixed rate mortgages... and let the renters pay the note down... while I wait for the market to come back. So I'd be in stocks -- and rental property (I already own a large apartment complex and the note on a commercial building) - because that is REAL ESTATE diversity. I also own a stock -- National Retail Properties (NNN) which is commercial real estate... and it pays 5.76% and has pretty good Total return numbers...

That's not a recommendation --- I'm just saying at you guys ages -- bonds are not for you -- and when people say diversify - it doesn't have to be just stocks... it can be lots of different assets. :cheers:

[CRCRFT78]

Any chance the PDF version of this thread can be updated.

[Bucketlist2012]

Trust me --- I have the same issue and have to look and triple check myself all the time... This is just a great example to have used.

Yes you're a bit lopsided on consumer stocks -- but that can be okay IF we're truly in a turnaround in the economy. However... I wouldn't continue to add to your lopsidedness! Thus the diversify "push".

All of you - trust me when I tell you that you'll be happy to be diversified! You feel like a real sap when all your "tech" (substitute ANY sector here) is flying and you're looking at your "laggards" and questioning why you're in those POS names..... and then --- a year goes by and it's the sector that was flying that sucks and your laggards are saving your butt. The biggest problem is that we have real short term memory!

In 2011 - we had down 400 point days and up 500 point days.... On those big down days it was my BOND portfolio that was going UP. So I look at the money and think -- Okay -- I have "X" amount of dough - part of it was down X and part of it was UP X... so overall -- not too bad.

We go to some cocktail party -- and some guy starts yapping about how much he's made doing blah blah blah.... and you compare yourself to him and think "WTF! I'm only up 10% and this bozo is doubling his money". Ask yourself to make a note and check back on how well he's doing next year and the year after that. Usually they disappear into thin air and you never see him again. It's the classic tortoise and the hare.... Ya just want to win in the end - not just for tomorrow. Diversify. Invest, don't trade yourself to death trying to chase the next hot deal. :lateral: :cheers:

Great points , as usual...

I rode that train last year, and to be honest, I think 2012 will be more of the same..

So , as today is going, I am getting a diversified hammering across the board..

So I always preach that it is not the balance at at given moments, but the dividends, and total performance of the portfolio over time, What will I do ??

Nothing...I will not watch the balance and go on with the day..Yesterday was Wine Country and Napa/Calistoga...

No Trading or running around...Last year had those 500 point ups and downs.

And i told you before , I was still up at years end, and I got to spend all this money too..

So today is not one of those days, but not a day to write home about..

So, I follow the course...And yes, slow and steady wins the race..With a dash of roller coaster in between..:lateral: :cheers: :woot:

[GregWeld]

I use days like today to check all my stocks (not that many really - no need to have a zillion -- just good ones!) and anything where my 5% rule is lagging -- I look to add to those positions not sell... I look to buy when the others are selling.

Schwab has a tab in the Positions page - where you can check your "unrealized gains/losses" --- This is the page I go to on days like today. I look at the red numbers first - because these are stocks I've done all the research on - and I only bought them because I want to own them - perhaps they're red/down at the moment - but I certainly don't expect them to stay that way over time.... and I pick away (add to the position) on days like today. That usually (short term) adds to my loss... but I don't care about that --- I'm SCALING IN. I never buy an entire position at once. Some of you can't scale in -- so this is info for when you do get to that place... So this post is just about how I personally use a down market day.

Today I added 5000 shares to my Banco Santander (STD) holdings. I have now made 4 separate 5000 share purchases... and I have a "loss" (paper only) in the name. They pay a very handsome dividend and I expect this world bank to be just fine 3 or 5 years from now. In the meantime - they're paying me to sit on my hands. :unibrow: The name is still a low holding in my Schwab account... and I don't expect to get to 5% in this name because of the share price -- I'd simply have to own too many shares to get to what constitutes 5% of my investable assets. So there's another INVESTING 102 lesson. You don't have to have any particular number in any particular name. The 5% "rule" is about THE MAXIMUM - but it doesn't mean you ever have to get there.

So here's another thing to pay attention to and I've written about this before -- it's what I call the "LAW OF LARGE NUMBERS". This is true regardless of how much you're investing!

10 shares down $1 ='s 10 dollars

100 shares down .35 ='s 35 dollars

Doesn't make any difference that the 10 shares are @ $500 each and the 100 shares are only $5

So as you can see -- the one stock that you have the most shares of can really "counter" your other stocks. The more shares you own - the more affect they can have on your performance -- and this is true whether they're going UP or DOWN!

I try to be cognizant of this when looking at my accounts. Sometimes you're surprised at the gain or loss of a particular holding -- and then you have to look at the number of shares you're holding rather than the actual dollars invested. And that's when you'll see this "law of large numbers" take affect.

Today's market is hardly "scary" and you shouldn't be scared by a market that is down 1 or 2%... I'm always HAPPY for days like this because it allows me to add to my positions. It's like going to Nordstrom and finding a pair of shoes you've been wanting to replace - on sale! :woot:

[Bucketlist2012]

I was going to say for people waiting to buy certain items, they are having a sale today..

Greg you are right ,, today is not scary but just another day.

And for people sitting in cash.....Time is not on your side...You gotta put the cash to work..

[toy71camaro]

I jumped into the Utilities and Consumer Purchases/tobacco sectors today... thats why the down market. :cheers:

go take advantage of the "After Albert buys" Sale going on now! ;)

[GregWeld]

Too funny Albert! But it is an absolute truth that right after a guy buys the market goes down... thus my "scaling in".


Okay -- so I forgot a key part of my post about looking at your account and picking away at any of the names you've yet to "max out" on... and that key part was to not look at just the numbers as in --- a $10 stock is down .50....
Rather -- look at the PERCENTAGE move. So Banco Santander (STD) is down today - and I took some more because it was down 5%... This is a $7 ish dollar stock -- so it's down a whopping .45 CENTS - but that .45 cents is 5%

I have other stocks that are down in dollar terms far more... Phillip Morse (PM) is down $1.22 as I write - but that's only down 1.43% so I'm not taking down any more PM for a picayunish 1.5% move... But STD down 5% if it just comes back to YESTERDAYS closing price I'd have a 5% gain.

I'm not looking for 100% gains -- or 50% gains... tomorrow... or by the end of the month. I'd like (LOVE?) to have a 10% gain by years end... but if I have a TOTAL RETURN of 10%+ by years end I'd be thrilled.

So watch for PERCENTAGES... because that's how you make money!

[Sieg]

I jumped into the Utilities and Consumer Purchases/tobacco sectors today... thats why the down market. :cheers:

go take advantage of the "After Albert buys" Sale going on now! ;)
It's comforting to know it's not just me. Stay the course, the tide will come back in. :thumbsup:

[Bucketlist2012]

It's comforting to know it's not just me. Stay the course, the tide will come back in. :thumbsup:

You guys are too funny.. The after Albert sale....Dang you are smart and funny..:thumbsup: :lateral:

Yes, I am looking at the long term, so the in and out flow does not matter..

Stocks never rise in linear fashion, and I am just looking to the yearly or long term average too...

Double digits would be nice...Ya, 10% to 12% would be a win in my book for a yearly average gain.

[toy71camaro]

So... Now i am covered in these sectors within my ROTH:

Retail/Wholesale (MCD) 19%
Comp&Tech (MSFT, CSCO, APPL) 16% (before "Investing 102" purchase)
Utilities (ED) 26%
Consumer Staples (MO) 26%
Aerospace (LMT) 5% (before "Investing 102" purchase)
Medical (PFE) 5% (before "Investing 102" purchase)

What sectors would be a good offset for these? My next two considerations for next weeks purchase ($2k) would be possibly be in Finance, and Oil/Energy. Just trying to gauge where to invest my "time" to research. ;)

[CRCRFT78]

I'm looking at my Rollover IRA (Fidelity) and when you say to look at the unrealized losses/gains, would that be the same as ''changes since purchase, dollars/percent". Navigating Fidelity's page is somewhat troublesome so I'm hoping their terminology is just different and I'm not looking at it incorrectly.

[toy71camaro]

I'm looking at my Rollover IRA (Fidelity) and when you say to look at the unrealized losses/gains, would that be the same as ''changes since purchase, dollars/percent". Navigating Fidelity's page is somewhat troublesome so I'm hoping their terminology is just different and I'm not looking at it incorrectly.

Im guessing so. My Sharebuilder (where i have my ROTH IRA) has a "Gains or Loss" column. and the footer notes show thats the gain/loss ($ and %) since "purchase".

[CRCRFT78]

Looking at my IRA I've noticed Pepsi is -7.72%, Consolidated Edison is -6.93% & Disney is -2.34% since purchase. Is -5% just your benchmark for scaling in or is that one of those unwritten suggestions for investors?

[CRCRFT78]

Well I've been itching to add to my stocks so I just purchased 10 more shares of Pepsi @ $62.29 ($622.90). Combined with the initial 15 shares I purchased at $67.51 ($1012.65). Which comes out to an average of $65.42 per share. With the stock being down -7.73%, and with the intention of holding for the long term I thought now is as good a time as ever.

Sorry theres no real purpose for this post, just excited to add to my investments and looking forward to what the future holds for me once these start to pay off.

[toy71camaro]

Well I've been itching to add to my stocks so I just purchased 10 more shares of Pepsi @ $62.29 ($622.90). Combined with the initial 15 shares I purchased at $67.51 ($1012.65). Which comes out to an average of $65.42 per share. With the stock being down -7.73%, and with the intention of holding for the long term I thought now is as good a time as ever.

Sorry theres no real purpose for this post, just excited to add to my investments and looking forward to what the future holds for me once these start to pay off.

Sounds good man... its ok, i feel those "need to share moments" too. i think half mine are. hah..

Any how, i think you basically "did good".. you knew u were keeping them long term, you seen a 7% sale today, you had some cash and you took advantage of it. Does that mean next time it goes on sale for 7% off you buy it also? nah, all depends on what ya got to spend, and when, etc.

Atleast thats how i see it.

[CRCRFT78]

Albert, I had the cash just sitting there doing nothing (lazy workers) and for some reason it just never dawned on me to look at the market as "going on sale" when its down. Your comment lit a lightbulb when you said that. So buying seemed like the next logical step. Unlike most people I don't feel bad taking the loss when the market is down and I don't panic when that happens. However, after making the purchase I'm no longer worried about when my lazy workers will get back to work.

And on top of that, who doesn't like buying when things go on sale.

[toy71camaro]

LOL exactly. Thanks Greg for that little tidbit of info. ;) :thumbsup:

[CRCRFT78]

Greg, regarding Banco Santander, can you give us some insight about the ADR fees and how do they affect your overall ROI? Banco Santander has been a name I've been watching but being a newbie I want to make sure its something I understand before spending money on. Would this be stock to purchase for my IRA (my retirement) or my Schwab (money I have no attachment to if lost) account.

[Bucketlist2012]

Well I've been itching to add to my stocks so I just purchased 10 more shares of Pepsi @ $62.29 ($622.90). Combined with the initial 15 shares I purchased at $67.51 ($1012.65). Which comes out to an average of $65.42 per share. With the stock being down -7.73%, and with the intention of holding for the long term I thought now is as good a time as ever.

Sorry theres no real purpose for this post, just excited to add to my investments and looking forward to what the future holds for me once these start to pay off.
Excitement is good... You know , we never time the bottom..That is why we scale in..

Even stuff I bought on sale last time , went down before it went up..So i lost, right after I bought...But the dividends, and the rebound finally came, as i thought it would..

It is hard to part with cash, but in the end, the cash will generate nothing, and Inflation will crush you..So good job, on putting it to work..

I won't even look at mine today...because it always ends up up, just not today..:cheers:

[Bucketlist2012]

Ok, enough of my usual gibber, and on to good stuff..

Ok, the reason I recommend Kiplinger's magazine is that in this issue, among a ton of great money management and investment info, it talks about Chesapeake Energy and Annaly.

So I know Greg talks about these great plays in your portfolio, and they are.

I just want you to have the magazine so that you see on paper what someone else says about these plays.

How Cheasapeake yields 6.1% and although the company profits may decline this years due to nat gas, it will pay it's interest and principal comfortably. And it also talks about some of it's long term plans.

Also info on another great play, annally..And how it may be a good play for a while to come still...

It just gives you more tools to use to make your decisions...No financial advisor needed...Research and tools...And study and Time..

So check it out if you have just bought these assets , or are thinking about it..Plus some cool , useful info in the magazine..

I have some skills...Some days my skills are better than other days...:lateral: :cheers: :woot:

[toy71camaro]

Annaly has been a big buzz every since i started reading this thread... hmm... lol...

[CRCRFT78]

Fortune mag just had a write up about Annaly I believe last month. You have to wonder though, once everyone starts talking about it is it too late. Just thinking back to Gregs comment about "once the clerk at the store tells you about it, its too late". I have also been thinking of adding them to my portfolio though.

[Bucketlist2012]

Annaly has been a big buzz every since i started reading this thread... hmm... lol...

Actually It has been talked about since 2008/2009..

It was a top pick back then.. So was chesapeake energy.

I have been studying for years, and a lot of what is being talked about today, was talked about then. So they are still strong, and look to stay that way.

But do not overweigh in annaly..

or anything else.:cheers:

[toy71camaro]

Fortune mag just had a write up about Annaly I believe last month. You have to wonder though, once everyone starts talking about it is it too late. Just thinking back to Gregs comment about "once the clerk at the store tells you about it, its too late". I have also been thinking of adding them to my portfolio though.

Same here... thats why i posted my comment.. seems they are the "buzz" (them and apple)... which kinda makes me "wonder".

[CRCRFT78]

Actually It has been talked about since 2008/2009..

It was a top pick back then.. So was chesapeake energy.

I have been studying for years, and a lot of what is being talked about today, was talked about then. So they are still strong, and look to stay that way.

But do not overweigh in annaly..

or anything else.

This is why its good to have some of you experienced investors chime in. Help keep us newbies from screwing ourselves.

[Bucketlist2012]

This is why its good to have some of you experienced investors chime in. Help keep us newbies from screwing ourselves.

I am a newbie compared to Greg, so I am here to just share thoughts.

But for sure, we cannot get greedy looking to double digit gains or Annaly, and just overbuy..

But in my strategy, I have in the past, looked to common themes from different sources..And they have sang the same tune for a long time now...

Not just investing , but money management, too... When several sources are all talking about certain things to do, I at least check them out.. See why they like it, or what they think will happen going forward..

Also Kiplinger's talks of Stock's fighting inflation, and not just TIPS, or Gold...

But today has been a reading day for me...There is just so much to learn..A life long journey, and I am bitten by the bug to do the best that I can..

[Bucketlist2012]

Another one to ask Greg about that has been talked about for years..

TVA.. Tennessee valley authority.

Energy distribution. I could not look up the data, but i am throwing it out there for discussion..

[GregWeld]

So... Now i am covered in these sectors within my ROTH:

Retail/Wholesale (MCD) 19%
Comp&Tech (MSFT, CSCO, APPL) 16% (before "Investing 102" purchase)
Utilities (ED) 26%
Consumer Staples (MO) 26%
Aerospace (LMT) 5% (before "Investing 102" purchase)
Medical (PFE) 5% (before "Investing 102" purchase)

What sectors would be a good offset for these? My next two considerations for next weeks purchase ($2k) would be possibly be in Finance, and Oil/Energy. Just trying to gauge where to invest my "time" to research. ;)


Several good names in "energy" --- with good dividends etc... Connoco Phillips == Chevron -- Exxon... or the pipes -- Enbridge Energy Partners - Kinder Morgan Partners -

You'll just have to do some digging around. (Oil pun - get it?)

[GregWeld]

Looking at my IRA I've noticed Pepsi is -7.72%, Consolidated Edison is -6.93% & Disney is -2.34% since purchase. Is -5% just your benchmark for scaling in or is that one of those unwritten suggestions for investors?

No particular "rules" that I use... I just prefer to buy on down days. Sometimes waiting for a down day is futile because "down" is relative - if the stock has gone UP 20% while you waited for your down 5% move -- that ain't so brilliant!

I prefer not to try to time the market -- I just buy "some" -- wait and watch -- and maybe buy some more - up or down - there's no rules - this is all just a giant "who the hell knows" game. It's more a gut feeling for when over any thing else. Nobody has a crystal ball.

What I was trying to point out - using your three names listed here - is that I'd add to my Con Ed or Pepsi before adding to Disney -- given the percentages listed.

[GregWeld]

Well I've been itching to add to my stocks so I just purchased 10 more shares of Pepsi @ $62.29 ($622.90). Combined with the initial 15 shares I purchased at $67.51 ($1012.65). Which comes out to an average of $65.42 per share. With the stock being down -7.73%, and with the intention of holding for the long term I thought now is as good a time as ever.

Sorry theres no real purpose for this post, just excited to add to my investments and looking forward to what the future holds for me once these start to pay off.

You've been reading!! And learning!!

This is the best example YET --- doing what should be done -- you've bought good quality best of breed companies -- and then when you wanted to you added -- showing you're an INVESTOR!

I will sleep well tonight knowing that somebody "get's it"!!! :lateral: :cheers: :woot:

[GregWeld]

Greg, regarding Banco Santander, can you give us some insight about the ADR fees and how do they affect your overall ROI? Banco Santander has been a name I've been watching but being a newbie I want to make sure its something I understand before spending money on. Would this be stock to purchase for my IRA (my retirement) or my Schwab (money I have no attachment to if lost) account.

ADR's --- American Depository Receipts

There are fees associated with any ADR -- by the institution that holds the underlying securities...

So here's what that "dividend" payment looks like for Banco Santander (STD) the last time I got a dividend. I actually had a position in this name - then sold it - and waited for a little better news on the euro debt crisis -- then have scaled back into it just in the last month or so.


05/09/2011 STD BANCO SANTANDER SA ADR FSPONSORED ADR
type: FOREIGN TAX PAID
-$322.64

05/09/2011 STD BANCO SANTANDER SA ADR FSPONSORED ADR
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$1,698.13

So as you can see -- the $1700 dividend was actually $1400.... and I'll claim the foreign tax paid on my income taxes.

I like the dividend on this bank over other banks - and I don't expect the name to turn around over night. Some times you have to have a brass set to own some of this junk. I fortunately can buy stuff like this... not sure anyone else should be. It's high risk.

[GregWeld]

Re: Annaly Capital Management -- or any other 'name' like this....

I'm not the resident stock guru - nor resident stock picker... I really am quite uncomfortable discussing various names like this because you all have different reasons for your investments - different tolerances for risk - different goals - incomes etc.

Here's something also worth repeating:

If you don't know the name -- and don't understand the business the company is in ---- DON'T BUY IT! Because when something goes sideways --- you won't know why you own the name - and won't have any connection with it -- and that's SCARY!

I've been preaching since the beginning of this thread about investing in names you know... and there's no sense in investing outside your comfort level until you own all the "regular good stuff"... why go looking for trouble?

This is Investing 102....

Some of this stuff is for sophisticated investors that understand the risks associated with investments like junk bonds - and mortgage REITS etc. When you start playing with this stuff you better know what you're doing and be on top of the news - and trends etc.

Not saying that I'm sophisticated and you're not --- I'm just once again writing for ALL that read these threads... Please start out investing in all the best of breed - good dividend payers - steady eddies -- and live with that stuff for awhile -- before you start jumping into companies that make nothing... ya don't know what they even do... or what affects their earnings etc.

[CRCRFT78]

Thank you for the explanation on Annaly Capital Management. I agree I will have to learn more before jumping into something like this.

[Bucketlist2012]

Thank you for the explanation on Annaly Capital Management. I agree I will have to learn more before jumping into something like this.

Amen.... Some of these are really small plays in my Big Mix, so I am not trying to make a killing with the asset..It is more of a balance to my steady eddies..

Remember to really have a blended mix..Sure some of it seems boring, but no one should load up on these assets without doing the homework...

That is why I am usually not mentioning specific assets..i don't want it to bite someone, and then bite me...:cheers:

[toy71camaro]

ok...

So.. I am making a "list" per say, of "data" i am documenting for each stock i am reviewing, so i can compare the numbers and see which way i want to go, etc.

With that being said, i have a silly (to me) math question, that i just cant seem to find the answer to. Or i am overlooking it, or something. :_paranoid

I want to calculate the "Growth" of a dividend over a certain time frame... Say, for example, in 2007 the dividend was $0.25 and now, in 2012 (5 yrs) its $0.38. What was the dividend growth percent (not looking for the ACTUAL value, but the math to get it. lol).

Or perhaps this is on a Schwab chart that i am overlooking? or somewhere else?

Also, similar to Dividend growth, i want to see share price growth. Now i think this one is on the default "Summary" charge on Schwab. if you hit the 5yr mark on the "Quote Details" company performance chart, it says "Price Change: +10.00(13%). Is that indicating my stocks price has gone up simply 13% over that 5 yr mark?

thanks fella's...

and heck, i was at near the top of my class in math back in school. :wow:

[Woody]

ok...

So.. I am making a "list" per say, of "data" i am documenting for each stock i am reviewing, so i can compare the numbers and see which way i want to go, etc.

With that being said, i have a silly (to me) math question, that i just cant seem to find the answer to. Or i am overlooking it, or something. :_paranoid

I want to calculate the "Growth" of a dividend over a certain time frame... Say, for example, in 2007 the dividend was $0.25 and now, in 2012 (5 yrs) its $0.38. What was the dividend growth percent (not looking for the ACTUAL value, but the math to get it. lol).

Or perhaps this is on a Schwab chart that i am overlooking? or somewhere else?

Also, similar to Dividend growth, i want to see share price growth. Now i think this one is on the default "Summary" charge on Schwab. if you hit the 5yr mark on the "Quote Details" company performance chart, it says "Price Change: +10.00(13%). Is that indicating my stocks price has gone up simply 13% over that 5 yr mark?

thanks fella's...

and heck, i was at near the top of my class in math back in school. :wow:

To calculate the percentage change in your example you would subtract $0.25 from $0.38 which is a change of $0.13. Then divide the $0.13 by $0.25. You should come up with a percentage change of 52%.

I believe you are correct on the Schwab question? One way to check would be to pull up historical prices from five years ago and then calculate the % change as in the example above. Google finance has historical prices going back many years.

[carbuff]

I want to calculate the "Growth" of a dividend over a certain time frame... Say, for example, in 2007 the dividend was $0.25 and now, in 2012 (5 yrs) its $0.38. What was the dividend growth percent (not looking for the ACTUAL value, but the math to get it. lol).


If I understand your question, I think you want to see the annual dividend growth percentage for the last 4 years (2007 - 2011). That should be:

(nTH root of (new div / old div) - 1) * 100%

where 'n' is the number of years.

Using the above numbers:

((4th root of (.38 / .25)) - 1) * 100% =

(4th root of (1.52)) - 1 * 100% =

(1.110352 - 1) * 100% =

0.110352 * 100% =

11.0352%

You can use the Scientific version of the Windows calculator to derive the nth root of a number. I don't know how to put the radical symbol in here, hopefully you can figure that out. Maybe this will help. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nth_root

Hope that helps!

[toy71camaro]

thanks guys!

I also think i found the info on Schwab's website, under the "fundamentals" section. It has the 1/3/5 yr growths.

:thumbsup:

[toy71camaro]

Looks like the "Albert Sale" is over... ED and MO back on the rise today. lol

[bdahlg68]

ahhh, the joys of diversity. I own MCD which is down today pretty significantly for MCD. Not too worried as I've been to MCD in EU and in Asia and those stores are plenty busy. I'm literally praying MCD stays down here for a few more days as I'm expecting a new wave of employees looking for work. I also own REIT's that took a bit of a hit today. This sort of volatility is more expected in these names.

On the other hand I also own FUN and STD which thoroughly made up for MCD and the REIT's. FUN and STD were up 3% and 4% each today. STD I just picked some up yesterday and will be eyeing some additions shortly. :woot: :woot:

[Sieg]

Here's an interesting article I read today:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/419571-what-obama-s-budget-proposal-means-for-dividend-investing?source=email_investing_income&ifp=0

[WSSix]

grrrrrrrr this isn't the place for me to comment on your link Sieg. Let's just say I am not happy with the "leadership" of this country. I really hope the author of that opinion piece is correct.


On a brighter note, I put in my orders to purchase Occidental Petroleum(OXY), Whole Foods(WFM), Southern Company(SO), and the Coca Cola Company(KO) tonight. We will see if they go through and when. Once it's official, I'll list some details as the starting point for tracking how I do. I have both the interest earned and dividend earned selected to reinvest. Here's hoping it all works on in the long run :woot:

On another related note, Jose, who's the woman in your avatar? LOL Everyone has pictures of cars and such for there avatars so scrolling down the window I don't see anything that makes me stop. Then I hit your name and pow! really gorgeous woman. Stop scroll wheel, reverse scroll wheel, and dadamn, who is that?

[CRCRFT78]

Trey thats Desiree Elyda, Google her. I must say, even though I can't possibly afford to buy every stock mentioned throughout this thread, I do save them to my portfolio to compare for future purchase. This thread is great.

[Sieg]

Here's hoping it all works on in the long run :woot:

One thing is certain in my camp........no matter what happens my portfolio will better off than if I'd left it status quo thanks to the Lat-G investing club. :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

she reminded me of this....but she would be like "wheres my table?"

http://i32.tinypic.com/15ntws2.jpg

I have owned AAPL for many years and I hope it goes over a grand like the analysts predict.

[billscamaros]

One thing is certain in my camp........no matter what happens my portfolio will better off than if I'd left it status quo thanks to the Lat-G investing club. :thumbsup:

Ditto this!! This thread is awesome ... it's one that definitely has had a positive impact on me. Thanks to all who have contributed.

[GregWeld]

I'm too fried to comment "much" this morning - after flagging auto X at RTTC for 2 days -- My brain is burned up and so are my feet!


One thing I want people to NOTICE ----- Note how "steady" the steady eddies are in your portfolio on down days. The have these names for a reason and you won't appreciate their "usefulness" until you start to see how they help you. It's not because they jump up leaps and bounds - rather - because they don't sink like rocks on the down side.

They help you stay in the game. If you have a portfolio of wild stuff... it's real fun when it's going up -- not so much when it's coming down.

Think of it like an expense exotic motor -- great to own and lots of fun - up until the time it blows a rod through the block.... "there went $25 grand".... versus blowing up a mild SBC... "there went $25 hundred".

Good to see you guys at RTTC... Many guys came up to me and said they're reading and DOING! Love it! :cheers: :woot:

[Bucketlist2012]

Greg...

Welcome Back..

Sounded like a good time..Class act Event , that I missed..:lateral:

I also believe in managing the "down side"... Very important..:thumbsup:

You are right that people need to look at more than just the Money they will MAKE...But what will you LOSE on the bad cycles ??

Although I follow a kinda different Portfolio, I do factor in the LOSS I will take , as much as the GAINS I will make...

Part of the diversity, opposing correlating assets, ect.. Factoring RISK, ect...

[GregWeld]

Actually not "back" --- In Bakersfield at Ironworks -- Bob is doing some digital scan work on the '62 Bubbletop -- then he flies out of here and I take the mega dollar scanner back down to LA... Then.... I might start heading north. :unibrow: It's at least sunny and warm down here!!!

[toy71camaro]

Very cool.

got my next three "investments" pending for tomorrow's purchase (no commission). :D

[Tony_SS]

Hi Greg.. I have only read the first 5 pages of this thread but you have inspired me to buy my first stocks! However, you said not to buy gold, what reason do you have for this? It matches your advice, that you get paid to wait, and over the last 10 years, the trajectory has been up, as it has been with other precious metals. So I'm just wondering what you have against them?
TIA!

Now, I'm just trying to decide where the best place to manage my online stocks would be. Scottrade anyone?
Tony

[Bow Tie 67]

I switched from Scottrade to Schwab, as the latter allows dividend reinvestment. :thumbsup:

[Bucketlist2012]

Hi Greg.. I have only read the first 5 pages of this thread but you have inspired me to buy my first stocks! However, you said not to buy gold, what reason do you have for this? It matches your advice, that you get paid to wait, and over the last 10 years, the trajectory has been up, as it has been with other precious metals. So I'm just wondering what you have against them?
TIA!

Now, I'm just trying to decide where the best place to manage my online stocks would be. Scottrade anyone?
Tony

I recommend Schwab, but I have not seen ScottTrades website, especially if you are an Investor. When you open a Schwab account, you have access to tons of information..IMO.


I don't talk much about my holdings or strategies, but I always thought that 5% in PM's was part of my Diversity plan...Although I have gone much higher than that, it is a personal choice, and I will NEVER be able to recommend it..


But this thread is based on other methods that should be used...If you want to throw in some metals, 5%, that is a personal choice, but one i can't recommend, even though I am in i

But this thread is about doing your homework and being satisfied with what you own because you understand it..That is what I am doing.. But I cannot recommend it..:cheers:

[toy71camaro]

I use sharebuilder for my ROTH.

They have promo's occasionally that allow me to "auto buy" stocks on Tuesdays for free. And if your a Costco Exec member you get $2 "auto buy" purchases normally. and $7 "buy it now" purchases. Plus they generally have a free $50 or $75 signup deal.

It also allows me to buy "parts" of a share... So i can simply dump $1k at a stock, and it will buy 17.343 shares (or whatever) gets me to that $1k.

i have a scwhab account, simply for the "tools" they have. I may use that one for my "Personal - non retirement" investing. But havent got that far yet.

[Tony_SS]

What about http://www.sharebuilder.com/?

The seem good for a starter, no minimums, etc. ?

edit: Thanks Albert, that helps!

[toy71camaro]

oh, also.. Sharebuilder does auto-reinvestment for Dividends too.. which was discussed as being a "necessity" for Investing 102. ;)

[GregWeld]

Hi Greg.. I have only read the first 5 pages of this thread but you have inspired me to buy my first stocks! However, you said not to buy gold, what reason do you have for this? It matches your advice, that you get paid to wait, and over the last 10 years, the trajectory has been up, as it has been with other precious metals. So I'm just wondering what you have against them?
TIA!

Now, I'm just trying to decide where the best place to manage my online stocks would be. Scottrade anyone?
Tony

I've just rolled in from RTTC a couple hours ago and am a bit "rummy" -- but wanted to respond to your gold question.


My feelings about any investment in precious metals are the same - gold or silver etc.

Basically I think there are two trades here -- SPECULATIVE --- which means you're HOPING it goes up from where you bought...

OR

A person is a fatalist -- and sees the world coming to an end and Gold will be the only currency.


I'm not a speculator.... and I don't see our economy becoming so bad that I'll have to use gold as a currency. If I'm going to speculate that the price of an investment is going to go up == then I want to get paid while I wait for that to happen. Dividend stocks or apartment complexes - or commercial real estate are far better long term "speculations" IMHO.

If I thought the worlds currencies were going to collapse --- then I'd have to have ALL my money invested in gold - and I'd have to take possession of it - and probably build a bomb shelter and stock food and water. :D :cheers:

But that is also why I own everything I "have" - house - cars - etc. Nobody can take that away from me even if EVERYTHING goes south.

[Bucketlist2012]

I sure don't believe the world will end, but I do profit on the printing and spending that has gone on..

I also believe that the illegal alien student loans are being dumped onto the government books just before another bailout...Also more housing baliouts now, and to come..Print money here..

All pushing the dollar down further...So fatalist, nope, but speculative ? Well by my research, calculations and past performance the last ten years, a good speculation.But a small portion of the mix..Larger than most, but not portfolio wrecking if things go south..I have assets to counter that and pay divividends while stopping losses.

But I won't recommend it to anyone....A Volatile assets in Volatile times...Not to be taken lightly...So if you don't fully understand it, stay AWAY from it.

But I don't believe Metals are the answer..They are scary...But I have done enough research to feel good about what i am doing..

And this thread says to do your homework and know why you own something...Or you won't know when the tree is shaking or why it is shaking...The little man wants you to sell, so India and China can pick it up on sale..IMHO..

But I am crazy...So you may want to not follow the crazy man:lateral:

[toy71camaro]

Woot! :woot:

3/15/2012 DIVIDEND:MCD: $5.26 :thumbsup:

it may not be much, but its a another partial share!

[GregWeld]

Woot! :woot:

3/15/2012 DIVIDEND:MCD: $5.26 :thumbsup:

it may not be much, but its a another partial share!



Remember you get this FOUR TIMES PER YEAR!

:cheers: :thumbsup:

[toy71camaro]

exactly. :)

Next thing to tackle, my 401k funds... eep!

Im set for now i think on my ROTH.

[Gandalf]

Thanks to the OP for starting this thread and a huge thanks to those who have contributed, esp Greg (Grocery store guy be damned - now I can actually say I get some of my best investment advice from the guy who flags my autocross lol!). I've learned a ton in the short time I've been consuming this thread and really makes me want to get started. I like your simple, makes-sense approach Greg - esp about buy what you consume and/or understand. I run a technology company but I like to think I understand the inherent risks associated enough not to dump all my eggs in that one basket. I really like the thought of the long-term, steady-as-she-goes brands I do consume outside of technology. My money is doing little-to-nothing right now so now is as good a time as any.

Happy asking the noob questions. Choosing a broker looks like choosing a stock. I don't want to research it to death and end up doing nothing. I'm not talking about dumping $100k in - just starting small anyway. Any issue(s) changing online-discount brokers down the line? Afterall - correct me if I am wrong but I OWN the stocks regardless of where I buy/manage them, right?

G.

[GregWeld]

Thanks to the OP for starting this thread and a huge thanks to those who have contributed, esp Greg (Grocery store guy be damned - now I can actually say I get some of my best investment advice from the guy who flags my autocross lol!). I've learned a ton in the short time I've been consuming this thread and really makes me want to get started. I like your simple, makes-sense approach Greg - esp about buy what you consume and/or understand. I run a technology company but I like to think I understand the inherent risks associated enough not to dump all my eggs in that one basket. I really like the thought of the long-term, steady-as-she-goes brands I do consume outside of technology. My money is doing little-to-nothing right now so now is as good a time as any.

Happy asking the noob questions. Choosing a broker looks like choosing a stock. I don't want to research it to death and end up doing nothing. I'm not talking about dumping $100k in - just starting small anyway. Any issue(s) changing online-discount brokers down the line? Afterall - correct me if I am wrong but I OWN the stocks regardless of where I buy/manage them, right?

G.

Other than my feet still hurt.... I love doing that stuff! The only thing is I don't get time to chat! I'd rather be driving but the Mustang doesn't qualify - so it's kind of a "why bother". I did just register for a SAAC (Shelby American club) event at Thunderhill @ the end of April... so I'll get some seat time.

++++++++++++++++++++++

YES! YOU own the stocks - and they're transferable to any brokerage. Open the new account -- do a little paperwork -- they'll handle the rest. Takes 10 days or so -- but if you're not "trading" -- who cares.

I'm a tech kinda guy.... and have made most all of my money investing in tech companies. However, this is also why it's so important to diversify - because as you and I know - tech can be hot or cold in a nanosecond. Techs are cyclical and subject to getting beat to the punch. Ask RIMM about that... right? :lol:

It's sad to find out how much money has been invested -- and after years -- there has been little to no return. TIME is the great healer of money and when a decade slips away - it's HUGE -- just huge. :cheers:

[Sieg]

Woot! :woot:

3/15/2012 DIVIDEND:MCD: $5.26 :thumbsup:

it may not be much, but its a another partial share!

03/08/2012 MSFT MICROSOFT CORP
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$40.00

03/06/2012 PFE PFIZER INCORPORATED
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$22.00

03/01/2012 INTC INTEL CORP
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$33.60

:yes: :yes: :yes:

[toy71camaro]

03/08/2012 MSFT MICROSOFT CORP
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$40.00

03/06/2012 PFE PFIZER INCORPORATED
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$22.00

03/01/2012 INTC INTEL CORP
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$33.60

:yes: :yes: :yes:

Sweet! I also got PFE and MSFT's dividend last week. but they were very very small (only have about $300 in each stock) lol.

[GregWeld]

Don't ya just love FREE MONEY??

Gotta love those dividends!!

[Sieg]

Don't ya just love FREE MONEY??

Gotta love those dividends!!

I'm just patiently waiting to see the first ones from T, VZ, NLY, MO.

They'll balance out the AFR acquisition. :unibrow:

Again, thank you for the inspiration. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

I'm hauling the Musty-yang to Thunderhill the end of April -- so I can bring those heads down then??

[CRCRFT78]

Apple seemed to be on a steady climb so what do I do, buy $40,000 worth of stock in it. And of course, the little man on Wall Street yells, the idiot just bought $40,000 Gs worth, TAKE HER DOWN! Damn you Little Wall Street Leprechaun.



Oh yeah I also forgot to mention that this was purchased on a market simulator for my investment class.

DISCLAIMER
No real money was hurt during the purchasing of this stock.

[GregWeld]

Apple seemed to be on a steady climb so what do I do, buy $40,000 worth of stock in it. And of course, the little man on Wall Street yells, the idiot just bought $40,000 Gs worth, TAKE HER DOWN! Damn you Little Wall Street Leprechaun.



Oh yeah I also forgot to mention that this was purchased on a market simulator for my investment class.

DISCLAIMER
No real money was hurt during the purchasing of this stock.

GUARANTEED EVERY SINGLE PURCHASE!

and after you "sell" === GUARANTEED TO GO STRAIGHT UP!

Somewhere it's written in stone. :rolleyes:

[Sieg]

I'm hauling the Musty-yang to Thunderhill the end of April -- so I can bring those heads down then?? :yes: Friday the 27th?? Nor Cal Shelby event?

[GregWeld]

:yes: Friday the 27th?? Nor Cal Shelby event?


Yeah -- I'll go through beautiful downtown NIKEVILLE on the 26th --- 'cause Charley would be mad if I'm late. :lol:

[GregWeld]

Okay --- I'm laughing to myself here.... and I just couldn't resist!

THIS is how dividends look... when you're OLD like me!!



03/15/2012 MCD MC DONALDS CORP
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$2,800.00

03/15/2012 ED CONSOLIDATED EDISON INC
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$3,025.00

03/07/2012 HYG ISHARES TRUST IBOXX $ HIGH YIELD CORP
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$3,488.67

03/07/2012 PFF ISHARES S&P U S PFD FUNDS&P U S PFD STK INDEX FD
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$1,784.69

03/01/2012 KFN KKR FINANCIAL HLDGS LLC REIT
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$2,700.00

03/01/2012 JPM+I JPMORGAN CHASE 8.625%PFDDEP SHS REPSTG 1/400 NON
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$4,042.97

03/01/2012 CHKR CHESAPEAKE GRANITE WASH
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$7,277.00

[Sieg]

Yeah -- I'll go through beautiful downtown NIKEVILLE on the 26th --- 'cause Charley would be mad if I'm late. :lol:

:thumbsup: :woot: :woot:

Regarding the old guy dividends..........that's only 4490 gal. of tow rig fuel. :D

[Tony_SS]

I've just rolled in from RTTC a couple hours ago and am a bit "rummy" -- but wanted to respond to your gold question.


My feelings about any investment in precious metals are the same - gold or silver etc.

Basically I think there are two trades here -- SPECULATIVE --- which means you're HOPING it goes up from where you bought...

OR

A person is a fatalist -- and sees the world coming to an end and Gold will be the only currency.


I'm not a speculator.... and I don't see our economy becoming so bad that I'll have to use gold as a currency. If I'm going to speculate that the price of an investment is going to go up == then I want to get paid while I wait for that to happen. Dividend stocks or apartment complexes - or commercial real estate are far better long term "speculations" IMHO.

If I thought the worlds currencies were going to collapse --- then I'd have to have ALL my money invested in gold - and I'd have to take possession of it - and probably build a bomb shelter and stock food and water. :D :cheers:

But that is also why I own everything I "have" - house - cars - etc. Nobody can take that away from me even if EVERYTHING goes south.

Isn't that what all stocks are? We are speculation that these babies will go UP!

In the last 10 years, things have been quite volatile.. look at the crash of 2008. And now, there is chatter of something like this happening again soo...

Look at this 12 year chart:
http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/au00-pres.gif

I think Gold/Silver are a good hedge against inflation and protection. But other are seeing it as a 'bubble' like that of the 80's... Who knows. I'm guess all this QE1 2 and 3 and inflation (cost of food and energy) has me leary of jumping into stocks without some sort of hedge like PM's.

[GregWeld]

^^^^^^^^ Everybody has and is entitled to their own opinion - on anything. That is exactly what makes a market.

My "opinions" posted in this thread are for INVESTING 102 -- and I write with that thinking cap on.

Many reading this thread are just beginning to invest, or are adjusting their investments. To jump into PM's as a hedge or anything else is INHO inappropriate. The levels of investment in something such as gold, to actually hedge against inflation would need to be around 30% of a investable portfolio.
At the levels of most investable funds that are reading this.. that wouldn't be a wise move.

Now -- if you want to hedge against inflation... look at the 10 year chart of McDonalds -- and overlay GLD (a gold ETF) -- and then make a comparison... and the real difference is that MCD paid out real cash on top of the share price growth.

I'm throwing this out there as a "talking point" only. This is how people learn about various investments. My point is that a person would have done just as well in a dividend payer like McDonalds as they would have in Gold...

On a total return basis, gold has had an average annual growth rate of 8.47% (1973-2010), while the S&P 500 TR Index has had an average annual growth rate of 9.84%... so holding gold over the S&P 500... you went behind.

People buy gold when they're scared. I just don't buy into fear. If you listen to the ads touting "buy gold now" - that's exactly what they're pitching.

[GregWeld]

:thumbsup: :woot: :woot:

Regarding the old guy dividends..........that's only 4490 gal. of tow rig fuel. :D


I eat light!


:willy: :lol:

[Bucketlist2012]

Although I do hold PM,s and I have done very well with them, research shows you can fight Inflation with Stocks..

I have had to take a lot of profit from PM's so i would not get overweight, and I put the money into dividend stocks..

Anyone doing anything out of fear, buying or selling , is wrong, and if you have been "speculating ", or believing things will be a certain way, then I believe it works if you don't dedicate too much of your Portfolio to it..And long may not be as long as you think..

The bulk of the portfolio should be in solid, diversified companies..But I was into metals a while ago, so now we may be going up or we may be taking a hit soon..

[GregWeld]

I become overly "cautious" when "everyone" is doing something. It was even brought up earlier in this thread that "everyone" is suddenly talking about dividend investing... and that is absolutely true. Many have been dividend investing for years... it's the original "blue haired old lady" investment and this goes back years and years. So it's being "re-discovered" - which can also create a 'bubble'.

I have stayed out of Apple of late... because it's the only thing the talking heads can talk about. That always gives me 'pause'.

[Tony_SS]

I become overly "cautious" when "everyone" is doing something. It was even brought up earlier in this thread that "everyone" is suddenly talking about dividend investing... and that is absolutely true. Many have been dividend investing for years... it's the original "blue haired old lady" investment and this goes back years and years. So it's being "re-discovered" - which can also create a 'bubble'.

I have stayed out of Apple of late... because it's the only thing the talking heads can talk about. That always gives me 'pause'.

Same here Greg! Gold was/is quite poplular and its what lead to the $2000 grand bubble, IMO. So I think the bottom is a good time to buy. It's out of my league, but I do collect silver as a hobby and long term investment/hedge.

However, if anyone wants a lead on stocks, IMHO, invest in those firms that the Federal Reserve bailed out in secret. Partial audits revealed those, and McD's was one of them. With a backer like the Fed, you're sure to win. That's my strategy when I plan to jump in.

Appreciate the convo and insight.

[Tony_SS]

research shows you can fight Inflation with Stocks..

I can agree with that.. I think that perhaps why we seen the stock market go up is partially due to inflation.

[GregWeld]

Same here Greg! Gold was/is quite poplular and its what lead to the $2000 grand bubble, IMO. So I think the bottom is a good time to buy. It's out of my league, but I do collect silver as a hobby and long term investment/hedge.

However, if anyone wants a lead on stocks, IMHO, invest in those firms that the Federal Reserve bailed out in secret. Partial audits revealed those, and McD's was one of them. With a backer like the Fed, you're sure to win. That's my strategy when I plan to jump in.

Appreciate the convo and insight.

That's my only "fear" about being in Gold... is that when all the TV talking heads are speculating about it's next move -- that scares me... and when RETAIL investors think it's a "SURE BET" -- that scares me even more... I've lived through the dot bombers -- the housing bust -- etc and every time everyone was sure that "whatever X" is was going straight up from here (an already lofty level) disaster seemed to be right around the corner.

Of course what we have to do in this thread -- remembering that it's a 102 thread -- is to learn... and we need to learn our risk tolerances... and how not to get scared out of the market -- and I have to remember that many here were of the "invest and forget" mindset...

What I don't want people to do is to change their investments -- and then suddenly get blown out and give up on investing. When you take on risk - getting blown out is part of that game. The game we're trying to play is invest for long term - getting paid - compounding that over time... and winning the game. I want all these guys to be able to enjoy what I (and others here) are enjoying -- which is being comfortably retired and living the good life in their golden years.

[ErikLS2]

I get that same fear Greg. I can't stop hearing ads on TV and radio from brokers wanting to sell you gold. Was just at my dentist's office and he wouldn't stop talking about buying silver right now. I think if you were going to buy it, buy it in coins or whatever you can hold in your hand. I wouldn't feel safe buying some piece of paper that said I owned gold or silver

Real estate (rental property) can also be a good hedge against inflation, provided you buy it before there's any real inflation taking place, like right now. Plus, unlike with gold or silver, it pays you while you wait, you get a tax deduction by depreciation and it's a fixed asset that can't easily go away (provided you pay your property taxes and insurance). You can even make money on the money you borrowed to buy it if you do it right. It can be hard to sell though but if you keep it in good condition when the inevitable boom happens, it shouldn't be too hard to get out of. Last one I sold at pretty much the peak in '06 was under contract in 3 days and I made a killing. The best thing about investing I think is that if you own something that's just experienced a big upturn, there are plenty of knuckleheads waiting in line to buy it before it goes up more.

[GregWeld]

I get that same fear Greg. I can't stop hearing ads on TV and radio from brokers wanting to sell you gold. Was just at my dentist's office and he wouldn't stop talking about buying silver right now. I think if you were going to buy it, buy it in coins or whatever you can hold in your hand. I wouldn't feel safe buying some piece of paper that said I owned gold or silver

Real estate (rental property) can also be a good hedge against inflation, provided you buy it before there's any real inflation taking place, like right now. Plus, unlike with gold or silver, it pays you while you wait, you get a tax deduction by depreciation and it's a fixed asset that can't easily go away (provided you pay your property taxes and insurance). You can even make money on the money you borrowed to buy it if you do it right. It can be hard to sell though but if you keep it in good condition when the inevitable boom happens, it shouldn't be too hard to get out of. Last one I sold at pretty much the peak in '06 was under contract in 3 days and I made a killing. The best thing about investing I think is that if you own something that's just experienced a big upturn, there are plenty of knuckleheads waiting in line to buy it before it goes up more.


I'm in the real estate market to buy a house for my son as well as my sister and brother in law... I'll "rent" to them - take the depreciation... and "gift" equity to them over time (26K max gift per year - so 4 years out - they have 100K equity). I'll then sell my share to them if they want to buy... otherwise I still own a rental. On a 700K house I'll put 400K down - finance 300K... I'll pay cash for the house for my sister (I set a 325K max - it's a different market - different amount of 'help')... give them a below market rent and the equity 'gifting'. I plan to amend our estate planning to gift them the house should we pass before they are able to purchase.

Housing is a bargain right now and so is the cost of money. We just missed one in the Portland area that had a separate shop! Dang! I was on the road and they couldn't pull the trigger fast enough... But houses are like buses... there will be another one coming along in 15 minutes or so. :woot:

[toy71camaro]

so.. diving into my 401k now... all mutual fund stuff... and I'm getting confused the deeper i look.. lol...

So, I'll just take one fund here, for sake of understanding...

I look at my "Royce Opportunity" fund. It shows i have aprox a $2500 "Balance" and I have aprox 120 "units" with a Unit Value of 20.251. But when i click on the fund, it brings up the fund details page. Says the ticker is RYPNX.
Ok, all ok so far...

I go to Schwab, lets "dive into this fund"... I pull up RYPNX, it shows its $12.12 a share.. wait, i thought it was 20.251? :_paranoid I take my 120 units multipied by $12.12 and i got barely half of what my 401k balance sheet says. :omg:

Then... second thing...

I look at that ticker on schwab, shows a 0.00% dividend yield.. ok, No dividend. fine. Then it has a "Long Term Capital Gain" of $0.1887. With a Distribution total of $0.1887 as of 12/08/11. So, was that $0.1887/share given to me? or, something else?

Not sure this is "Investing 102".. but... i figured you guys might know the answers. lol

[pw2006]

so.. diving into my 401k now... all mutual fund stuff... and I'm getting confused the deeper i look.. lol...

So, I'll just take one fund here, for sake of understanding...

I look at my "Royce Opportunity" fund. It shows i have aprox a $2500 "Balance" and I have aprox 120 "units" with a Unit Value of 20.251. But when i click on the fund, it brings up the fund details page. Says the ticker is RYPNX.
Ok, all ok so far...

I go to Schwab, lets "dive into this fund"... I pull up RYPNX, it shows its $12.12 a share.. wait, i thought it was 20.251? :_paranoid I take my 120 units multipied by $12.12 and i got barely half of what my 401k balance sheet says. :omg:

Then... second thing...

I look at that ticker on schwab, shows a 0.00% dividend yield.. ok, No dividend. fine. Then it has a "Long Term Capital Gain" of $0.1887. With a Distribution total of $0.1887 as of 12/08/11. So, was that $0.1887/share given to me? or, something else?

Not sure this is "Investing 102".. but... i figured you guys might know the answers. lol

If you go to Royce's home page, it shows the $12.12 NAV.
http://www.roycefunds.com/Funds/Open/rof/default.asp

If you go here:
http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/fund/rypnx
You can see that they have beat the S&P 500 in the YTD/3/5/10 year categories.

Not sure why your account is showing different numbers... I would follow up with your 401k admin.

[GregWeld]

so.. diving into my 401k now... all mutual fund stuff... and I'm getting confused the deeper i look.. lol...

So, I'll just take one fund here, for sake of understanding...

I look at my "Royce Opportunity" fund. It shows i have aprox a $2500 "Balance" and I have aprox 120 "units" with a Unit Value of 20.251. But when i click on the fund, it brings up the fund details page. Says the ticker is RYPNX.
Ok, all ok so far...

I go to Schwab, lets "dive into this fund"... I pull up RYPNX, it shows its $12.12 a share.. wait, i thought it was 20.251? :_paranoid I take my 120 units multipied by $12.12 and i got barely half of what my 401k balance sheet says. :omg:

Then... second thing...

I look at that ticker on schwab, shows a 0.00% dividend yield.. ok, No dividend. fine. Then it has a "Long Term Capital Gain" of $0.1887. With a Distribution total of $0.1887 as of 12/08/11. So, was that $0.1887/share given to me? or, something else?

Not sure this is "Investing 102".. but... i figured you guys might know the answers. lol


Here's something I'm going to use for a little "lesson"... This graphic shows the NAV.... NET ASSET VALUE of the fund by year. Please note that if you were contributing the SAME dollar amount paycheck to paycheck - you would have BOUGHT a lot more shares when the fund had a LOW NAV... and you'd have bought FEWER shares when the NAV was high.... and this averaging in can really help your performance in the long run.

If someone would have told you in 2008 to buy twice as many shares of something that had gotten killed --- you'd be saying "NO WAY JOSE".... but of course the mutual fund is doing it for you... so in this case a mutual fund can be beneficial.

This particular fund has a decent performance. So many do not.


Year-End NAVs
Year NAV
2011 $10.32
2010 $12.08
2009 $9.03
2008 $5.57
2007 $11.02
2006 $13.04
2005 $12.29
2004 $13.31
2003 $12.14
2002 $7.37

[GregWeld]

so.. diving into my 401k now... all mutual fund stuff... and I'm getting confused the deeper i look.. lol...

So, I'll just take one fund here, for sake of understanding...

I look at my "Royce Opportunity" fund. It shows i have aprox a $2500 "Balance" and I have aprox 120 "units" with a Unit Value of 20.251. But when i click on the fund, it brings up the fund details page. Says the ticker is RYPNX.
Ok, all ok so far...

I go to Schwab, lets "dive into this fund"... I pull up RYPNX, it shows its $12.12 a share.. wait, i thought it was 20.251? :_paranoid I take my 120 units multipied by $12.12 and i got barely half of what my 401k balance sheet says. :omg:

Then... second thing...

I look at that ticker on schwab, shows a 0.00% dividend yield.. ok, No dividend. fine. Then it has a "Long Term Capital Gain" of $0.1887. With a Distribution total of $0.1887 as of 12/08/11. So, was that $0.1887/share given to me? or, something else?

Not sure this is "Investing 102".. but... i figured you guys might know the answers. lol


So what you may be seeing is a "balance" that is both cash and units purchased... and perhaps they only invest your cash hoard quarterly... as it builds up. Just guessing here.

The MUTUAL FUND collects the DIVIDENDS from the companies they own --- they can choose to pay out a LONG TERM CAPITAL GAIN if they have any as they buy and sell the shares that make up the fund. Sometimes you get a real nice LTCG and sometimes not so much. What you really want out of these is the long term growth that you get from shares purchased on a regular basis... and of course... hopefully the fund performs as well. Sadly -- this fund has a pretty steep (percentage wise) fee in excess of 1%. While that doesn't seem like a lot -- it adds up over time -- because it's 1% of YOUR invested dough from day one --- and every year thereafter... but they are what they are. And saving this way is better than "not". :cheers:

[WSSix]

Well, as of 3/14/12 I officially own Whole Foods, Coca Cola Company, Southern Company, and Occidental Petroleum. I basically bought $4000 worth of each stock with money I had in my Star Fund with Vanguard. Everything is still under the umbrella of Roth so I pay no taxes on any of the gains. As of closing today, my balance is up $26 between the four stocks. However, Oxy and Southern Company are down. Whole Foods and Coke had large enough gains that I made money, :woot:

I'm still poking around on Vanguard's website so I can learn to fully utilize it. Now, what to do with my tax return money, hmmmmmmm?

[GregWeld]

Well, as of 3/14/12 I officially own Whole Foods, Coca Cola Company, Southern Company, and Occidental Petroleum. I basically bought $4000 worth of each stock with money I had in my Star Fund with Vanguard. Everything is still under the umbrella of Roth so I pay no taxes on any of the gains. As of closing today, my balance is up $26 between the four stocks. However, Oxy and Southern Company are down. Whole Foods and Coke had large enough gains that I made money, :woot:

I'm still poking around on Vanguard's website so I can learn to fully utilize it. Now, what to do with my tax return money, hmmmmmmm?

:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :woot:

[GregWeld]

I have referred to "noise" in several of my posts.... and what I mean by that is if you watch CNBC every day -- you get bombarded by various expert opinions. One says this is going to the moon - the next guy says the world is coming to an end. THAT is what makes a "market" - one guy is selling - the other, buying.

If you listened to this "noise" - you'd soon go crazy. Like most "opinions" there is some fact... some information that is worth consideration. But if you acted on this "noise" you'd be in and out of stocks about every 15 seconds. This is why I urge you to AVOID the noise.... listen - learn - think - but don't react. Many of the facts on these shows are for TRADERS and professionals that are trying to milk every last drop of "return" on their money. If the average guy listens and reacts - my guess is - you'd be flat broke in less than 6 months.

With this in mind - The reason for todays post (I'm a bonafide posting whore) I read this article on Seeking Alpha. If you only read the part on Coca Cola and McDonalds.... it will sum up the "noise" I refer to.


http://seekingalpha.com/article/438501-bill-and-melinda-gates-foundation-s-top-dividend-stocks?source=email_investing_income&ifp=0


So here's my take away on articles like this....

There is ZERO supporting numbers to stake the authors "buy" recommendation on Coke... other than it's a nice company with good dividend and is a solid business. Remember that this is an INTERNATIONAL play - in the food biz. Now let's go to his "I wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole" argument for McDonalds... All manor of numbers - pointing to food costs rising - G&A (general and administrative costs) expense rising... Europe declining etc.

REALLY?? So none of those above factors affect Coke? Only McDonalds.... Both international companies in the food biz. One is a buy the other a sell.

I read this stuff... but I don't put much stock (pun) into the authors argument. I hold a bunch of both and wouldn't sell them even if we slipped into a depression. This guy is just the very definition of the noise I refer to. :rofl: :woot:

[GregWeld]

Okay --- Last post for a few days. I'll be at Bondurant doing their Grand Prix school... and that's more fun than posting here! :D


I'm posting a link to a Seeking Alpha article on MLP's (Master Limited Partnerships)... *********** I misspoke on the TAX explanation.... as I scanned and posted too quickly. That's what happens on only a half cup of coffee some mornings!


Personally I have large stakes in Kinder Morgan (KMP) and Enbridge Energy Partners (EEP)... and just received their 1099's.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/440561-retirees-should-buy-the-dip-in-these-5-large-cap-mlps?source=email_investing_income&ifp=0

[GregWeld]

Please use the thread to go back and read my UPDATED post on MLP's.

I misspoke about the contents of the linked article.


Sorry!

[Sieg]

Have great time! I'll assume the 4 day class?

[GregWeld]

Have great time! I'll assume the 4 day class?

That would be correct!

Gwen is taking the 3 day "beginner" class in the SS Camaro. Hopefully this sets the hook and she is also signed up to drive the Mustang at Thunderhil @ the end of April in the SAAC event.

[Sieg]

That would be correct!

Gwen is taking the 3 day "beginner" class in the SS Camaro. Hopefully this sets the hook and she is also signed up to drive the Mustang at Thunderhil @ the end of April in the SAAC event.
Awesome! Gwen is probably a nervous as a monkey that just ate a handful of fishhooks about T-Hill'n the Mutt.

It's doubtful but if possible I may road trip it to spectate at T-Hill and...........eat at Casa Ramos :yes:

[camcojb]

That would be correct!

Gwen is taking the 3 day "beginner" class in the SS Camaro. Hopefully this sets the hook and she is also signed up to drive the Mustang at Thunderhil @ the end of April in the SAAC event.

the great thing is that Mustang is very easy to drive as a beginner. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

the great thing is that Mustang is very easy to drive as a beginner. :thumbsup:

Damn thing spins like a top!!


LOL

[Gandalf]

Greg - have a great time as I am sure you both will.

Just a quick update - I opened a couple of broker accounts last week to check them out. Hands-down the Schwab folks get my business. I had cause to ask them a question so I picked up the phone. Not only did they pick up the phone without delay but the guy who picked up could not have been more helpful if he tried. He made some changes to my account while on the phone and had me log back in, made me feel welcome and did not talk down to me, made sure I knew they were available for any type of assistance 24x7 for free, pointed me to their on-line resources and booked me into a free one-on-one session with one of their traders to go through their tools and get me started. Completely no pressure and did not ask me anything about my funding intentions. Additionally they just happen to have an office barely 2min from my house - bonus!

I'm going to deposit some limited funds in that direction this week and get my feet wet. I've always wanted to do this myself so right now I just want to learn and have some fun. I appreciate your self-deprecating humor at your own past mistakes - helping to illustrate the point about gambling vs investing for the long term.

Thanks for the "push" - will keep you posted :thumbsup:

Gregg

[GregWeld]

Greg - have a great time as I am sure you both will.

Just a quick update - I opened a couple of broker accounts last week to check them out. Hands-down the Schwab folks get my business. I had cause to ask them a question so I picked up the phone. Not only did they pick up the phone without delay but the guy who picked up could not have been more helpful if he tried. He made some changes to my account while on the phone and had me log back in, made me feel welcome and did not talk down to me, made sure I knew they were available for any type of assistance 24x7 for free, pointed me to their on-line resources and booked me into a free one-on-one session with one of their traders to go through their tools and get me started. Completely no pressure and did not ask me anything about my funding intentions. Additionally they just happen to have an office barely 2min from my house - bonus!

I'm going to deposit some limited funds in that direction this week and get my feet wet. I've always wanted to do this myself so right now I just want to learn and have some fun. I appreciate your self-deprecating humor at your own past mistakes - helping to illustrate the point about gambling vs investing for the long term.

Thanks for the "push" - will keep you posted :thumbsup:

Gregg


This is just like track days or anything else for that matter.... getting started is half the battle. And NOBODY expects you to be an expert! We're all at different levels of expertise at various endeavors. An attorney buddy of mine is always marveling how I can take a car apart and put it back together.... I finally said to him. Todd... I can't write a contract.... get over it. :woot:

Personally -- I have accounts at 4 different brokerages.... and Schwab is just fantastic in my book. Glad you had a good experience - as this echoes my own. :cheers:

[RECOVERY ROOM]

Thats a great way to put it :thumbsup:

[toy71camaro]

APPL announced its 1.8% dividend. That should make some people happy... it wont affect much of the 0.4 shares I own. hahah.

[CRCRFT78]

With Apples announcement of their stock buy backs and dividend payouts, what should we expect to see happening now? Buy more, sell, sit back and relax its not that big a deal? Just curious. My 6 measely shares won't make or break me but I am curious how this will affect the stock.

[GregWeld]

With Apples announcement of their stock buy backs and dividend payouts, what should we expect to see happening now? Buy more, sell, sit back and relax its not that big a deal? Just curious. My 6 measely shares won't make or break me but I am curious how this will affect the stock.



I don't think any dividend hunters are going to back up the truck tomorrow - or anytime soon for a <2% dividend. It's just a kind of "peace offering" to the big holders that were screaming for some 'use of the cash hoard'.

The thing that is propelling Apple is it's products and it's stellar sales and profit numbers. As long as they have that growth and the stock is still "relatively cheap" on a P/E basis... and it has momentum. It should be just fine.

This is where I would remind people not to load the boat - or think that they're missing out not having MORE Apple. Remember the pigs get fat - hogs
get slaughtered. Be thankful if you own some and you're sitting fat and pretty.

:cheers:

[GregWeld]

I'd like to make note of something that we've only touched on before -- and that's the INVERSE relationship of BOND YIELDS and STOCK PRICES....

Bond yields have risen quiet nicely (relatively) in the last couple weeks. When YIELDS on bonds go up -- they'll steal money from the stock market. People like a nice safe return...

I don't think anyone should REACT to this "news". I'm not going to. But I'm pointing it out that once you start hearing about this on the TALKING HEAD TV...
you can start to correlate the movement in stock prices.

If the yields go too high too fast -- they'll knock the legs out of the housing market... NOT GOOD.... and if they continue to rise... they'll knock the legs out of the stock market as well.

Remember that you'd still get your dividend... and that's what many are invested in... but a 4% stock dividend doesn't look as good when bond yields creep up to 3 or 3.5% etc. So then stock prices have to go DOWN to make the apparent yield go UP. A .35 dividend on a $10 stock is 3.5% -- but it's percentage goes up as the stock drops to $9 and higher still at $8.50

Just a "look, watch, and listen" reminder to the newbs out there. I want you all to learn from these events and to understand their correlation. :woot:

[toy71camaro]

Got a good article in my email box from Seekingalpha today (part of the "pre-market summary" email they send out...)

anyhow, it re-emphasizes a lot of what we've all discussed here. :thumbsup:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/444051-retirement-portfolio-for-do-it-yourselfers-a-winning-combination-of-dg-stocks?source=email_portfolio&ifp=0

[GregWeld]

Ahhhhhh..... The beauty of dividned inWesting.... I'm in AriDzona playing around and AstraZeneca deposits $9,750 into my account. LOL. Gotta love it!!

[Sieg]

Got a good article in my email box from Seekingalpha today (part of the "pre-market summary" email they send out...)

anyhow, it re-emphasizes a lot of what we've all discussed here. :thumbsup:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/444051-retirement-portfolio-for-do-it-yourselfers-a-winning-combination-of-dg-stocks?source=email_portfolio&ifp=0

That's the kind of noise I like to read!

This made me smile a bit:
As the quarter comes to a close, in the next two weeks, I can't say that the market will continue to advance or that we will see a correction. Frankly, I don't care either way.

[GregWeld]

If you read this article and see the results....

This is why --- after many years of experience in the market with all manor of styles of investing and trading... With all the pros tips and tricks (which generally is only good for THEIR wallets).

I've said to avoid all the hype -- the "hot stocks" -- and many other types of investments that seem (on the surface) far "sexier"....

The good old good ole' boys will get 'er done for ya! :cheers: :woot:

[toy71camaro]

here's a good read i found today. Good for us "beginning" investors that helps us see the benefit, even tho we arent one of the "big guys".

just another "feel good" article to help "stay the course", even if our dividends are minute.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/451391-the-beginning-days-of-dividend-growth-investing?source=email_portfolio&ifp=0

[toy71camaro]

and.... a little bit of free money... (bought this before finding this thread, one of my first Dividend stocks a few months back)...

3/23/2012 DIVIDEND DIVIDEND:LMT +$2.47

:woot:

[GregWeld]

Gotta love getting paid to sleep!!!:bow: :bow:

[ErikLS2]

Gotta love getting paid to sleep!!!:bow: :bow:

I work with a few folks that seem to have figured this out!

[Sieg]

The difference between bank interest and bank stock:
03/16/2012 as of 03/15/2012
BANK INT 021612-031512
type: bank interest
$0.19


03/15/2012 PCBK PACIFIC CONTINENTAL CORPOREGON
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$55.00

:unibrow:

[Sieg]

Interesting option to foreclosure: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304724404577297904070547784.html?s ource=email_rt_mc&ifp=0

I can see plus sides of this alternative - what are the potential unethical downsides?

[GregWeld]

The difference between bank interest and bank stock:
03/16/2012 as of 03/15/2012
BANK INT 021612-031512
type: bank interest
$0.19


03/15/2012 PCBK PACIFIC CONTINENTAL CORPOREGON
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$55.00

:unibrow:

Amazing isn't it?!?!

[GregWeld]

Here's a very detailed look at Kinder Morgan with an excellent description of its business and it's takeover of El Paso.
I think some of you have invested in this name. This article will let you understand why you did. :D :woot:


http://seekingalpha.com/article/451401-3-ways-to-reap-the-dividends-from-kinder-morgan-and-el-paso-merger

[Sieg]

Amazing isn't it?!?!
Ringing the bell baby! :woot: :woot:

[GregWeld]

Here's a good article on Dividend investing in the early stages of starting out...


http://seekingalpha.com/article/451391-the-beginning-days-of-dividend-growth-investing

For me - as I look out at the golf course I played yesterday - and look over my shoulder - looking back at the "beginners".... I wish I could pull you all forward to take a peek at the "after life" of dividend investing - or what it's like to live off your dividends. It might help you stay the course - or plow ever more into the pot. I haven't forgotten 'the early years' - when making the choices of what to do and making the tough choices when things were going south - buying when the markets were going sideways etc... and now... it all looks so "easy". :cheers:

[Bucketlist2012]

Here's a good article on Dividend investing in the early stages of starting out...


http://seekingalpha.com/article/451391-the-beginning-days-of-dividend-growth-investing

For me - as I look out at the golf course I played yesterday - and look over my shoulder - looking back at the "beginners".... I wish I could pull you all forward to take a peek at the "after life" of dividend investing - or what it's like to live off your dividends. It might help you stay the course - or plow ever more into the pot. I haven't forgotten 'the early years' - when making the choices of what to do and making the tough choices when things were going south - buying when the markets were going sideways etc... and now... it all looks so "easy". :cheers:

Greg


You are pulling people forward with your thoughts and posts.. So you are helping..

My God, some people have been sitting on cash since 2008......Ahhhhhh...But you have people thinking and acting on it...Well Done

...I HAD to retire young due to health, 52...Major Health..But since I have been doing investing for decades, My numbers will work out fine... I Would have liked to work more to hit the next level, but I am good living off the dividends now...

So people, get investing and keep your eye on the ball..get passionate about money...Not for the money, but for what Greg says...

To me, success is doing whatever you want, whenever you want, for as long as you want, just as long as you are not hurting anyone...To do that , you need.....lots of money...I am not there yet, but close enough

[RECOVERY ROOM]

This thread has changed my outlook, :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Here's a good article on Dividend investing in the early stages of starting out...


http://seekingalpha.com/article/451391-the-beginning-days-of-dividend-growth-investing

For me - as I look out at the golf course I played yesterday - and look over my shoulder - looking back at the "beginners".... I wish I could pull you all forward to take a peek at the "after life" of dividend investing - or what it's like to live off your dividends. It might help you stay the course - or plow ever more into the pot. I haven't forgotten 'the early years' - when making the choices of what to do and making the tough choices when things were going south - buying when the markets were going sideways etc... and now... it all looks so "easy". :cheers:
Good read.

Greg - What you have started here has, with myself and surely others, created feelings of remorse due to not taking this course of action years ago but better late than never IMO. On the other side what you have done is helped numerous younger individuals on this forum as well as a few of their friends get the head-start that many remorse over and that generosity in itself is truely respected. You have spent hours on hours carefully contributing to this thread hoping to make a difference in the financial future of those that will listen no matter their longevity.

Thanks for the generous gift. :thumbsup:

[toy71camaro]

Here's a good article on Dividend investing in the early stages of starting out...


http://seekingalpha.com/article/451391-the-beginning-days-of-dividend-growth-investing

For me - as I look out at the golf course I played yesterday - and look over my shoulder - looking back at the "beginners".... I wish I could pull you all forward to take a peek at the "after life" of dividend investing - or what it's like to live off your dividends. It might help you stay the course - or plow ever more into the pot. I haven't forgotten 'the early years' - when making the choices of what to do and making the tough choices when things were going south - buying when the markets were going sideways etc... and now... it all looks so "easy". :cheers:


reeeeeeepooooost! ;)

LOL. that was a great article. Helps "keep the faith"... I even threw a few comments on that one :).


As always, thanks Greg and Mike for showing me (and everyone else) "the light". :) :lateral: :woot:

[GregWeld]

I'm not so sure todays action is Bernanke -- or end of the quarter window dressing for the "funds" -- I suspect the later.

End of the quarter is when many companies post their employees contributions and the funds (as dumb as they are) need to buy shares in the underlying names that they invest in... Remember that a market is made with sellers and buyers -- more buyers - the prices go up.... and these funds buy big. Add to that the Bernanke affect and we'll all have a good day! :woot:

[Bucketlist2012]

Yes, a good day..

My health is great today and the market is up..

When my health is bad, i could be up 10 grand for the day and it still doesn't help..

But today, I have my Health, overnight Dividends, a nice market bump, and family and friends..

And My cars....A great day, indeed..

:thumbsup: :cheers:

[Bucketlist2012]

And with Bernanke, last week he spoke and I took a hit....I knew he was blowing smoke up my rear for a sell off..I went about my day..

I laughed and thought to myself, sure Dude, you won't spend any more, and print anymore...I was just waiting for him to speak again..this time out of the other side of his mouth....He did...WOOT.

[toy71camaro]

Yes, a good day..

My health is great today and the market is up..

When my health is bad, i could be up 10 grand for the day and it still doesn't help..

But today, I have my Health, overnight Dividends, a nice market bump, and family and friends..

And My cars....A great day, indeed..

:thumbsup: :cheers:

and no rain! heheh

[GregWeld]

So if you wake up and see Annaly Capital (NLY) down it's because it went "ex-dividend" today... so it's down equal to the dividend payout... This is totally normal. Don't freak out!


:lol:

[Sieg]

Nice........looking forward to my first NLY dividend deposit. :thumbsup:

[toy71camaro]

Nice........looking forward to my first NLY dividend deposit. :thumbsup:

Ditto!

lol.. i did notice it was down.. wasnt sweating it, cuz I'm "in it for the longhaul" so to speak...

Did find a few articles of "noise" on seekingalpha this morning. Trying to "herd the cattle away" from NLY... but the good part of Seekingalpha i like is that you can comment (and a LOT of people do)... So there are just as many PRO NLY as against NLY. So they bicker back and forth... good thing is sitting on the sidelines i get both views, and can make my own judgement.

[GregWeld]

It's one of my 3 "down" holdings... and is "volatile" to say the least. Volatile because with 25,000 shares -- a dime makes a big swing. I'm down 22K in the name BUT --- BIG BUTT --- I pick up $14,500 PER QUARTER in dividend... and UP .50 a share from here -- and I'm suddenly not down much. :D

[toy71camaro]

lol. yeah...

so far on my "investing 102" dividend funds, my two worst are NLY and CVX.. Each down 4.xx% since i purchased (last month?).. but, not that big of deal. If i had the money, id buy more of em. lol.

[GregWeld]

Here's a good - well written first hand experience about a "life change" experience in the stock market.


http://seekingalpha.com/article/463251-how-a-big-loss-made-me-a-dividend-growth-investor?source=email_investing_income&ifp=0


I lived thru the "dot bomb" bubble -- and traded a couple million dollars daily. I'd buy half million dollars worth of Dell - Microsoft - Intel - and a couple others almost every day -- if they went up .50 I'd sell and go play golf... if they went down - I MIGHT hold them over night. I made HUGE money - and paid HUGE (40%) taxes... and had I not taken out the money in 1999 (from my trading account) to pay cash for a house and then spent a year gutting and remodeling it... I'd have lost most of that account (3MM). I now look back and think what I COULDA WOULDA SHOULA done with that money... but it was mostly a lesson (by watching on the sidelines) that saved my bacon and made me a different INVESTOR... I thought at the time that I was sooooooo smart. Now I know I was very very lucky and it was all very easy while going straight UP.... :cheers:

[toy71camaro]

another good article.. :thumbsup:

Lately I have been trying to research/tackle the 401k.. but oh boy... thats a challenge. :_paranoid

[CRCRFT78]

I've lost a little interest in this ONLY because I have no money to invest. HOWEVER, I check this thread religously and watch the market as best as I can right now. I still have my goals mapped out and will continue to chug along as planned.

[toy71camaro]

Crcft... same here.. i check this thread probably 10 times a day. LOL


anyhow, good news... I started researching my 401k "Funds" that i could invest in. Re-thinking the whole portfolio based on "investing 102" strategies... First thing was to tackle all the "Large cap" style funds, as according to what I've read from a handful of different sources, that should make up for aprox 50% of my "portfolio" (Long term, 11+ years, aggressive).

I was on the 7th of 8 total funds, and think I "struck gold" (well, it felt like it anyway)... All the other funds had little or no dividend (by little, i mean less than 1% and some even less than .01). Which meant their "fee's" cost more than their dividend.

On a "research" level, i compared each funds fee's, Dividend, long term capital gains (which, is confusing), 1, 3, 5, 10 yr performance, top 10 "holdings" and their diversity (what % in what sector)... <--- I am not sure if this is a good way to compare funds. So any help here is appreciated... I then compared them to each other, and the S&P returns for those same time frames.


Anyhow, back to the "gold".... 7th of 8 total funds, and my head was spinning.. none "looked good"... until now... 2.54% dividend (2nd highest out of all 8), 0.36 fee's (lowest of all)... solid S&P comparison... and the kicker? their holdings... Solid Dividend "champions"... CVX, Royal dutch shell, Merck, VZ, HD, JNJ, Wells fargo, Boeing, MCD, T, KO, etc... Bingo! i know those, i trust those, they fit "investing 102"!

:lateral:

just thought i'd share.. finding that, made me smile.. and felt a huge "i dont know what to do" weight lifted off my shoulders.. I think i know what to do now ;)

[GregWeld]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


That right there is why I've stuck with this thread!


You have no idea how good that makes me feel. :bow: :cheers: :woot:

[Coursey]

Anyhow, back to the "gold".... 7th of 8 total funds, and my head was spinning.. none "looked good"... until now... 2.54% dividend (2nd highest out of all 8), 0.36 fee's (lowest of all)... solid S&P comparison... and the kicker? their holdings... Solid Dividend "champions"... CVX, Royal dutch shell, Merck, VZ, HD, JNJ, Wells fargo, Boeing, MCD, T, KO, etc... Bingo! i know those, i trust those, they fit "investing 102"!

:lateral:

just thought i'd share.. finding that, made me smile.. and felt a huge "i dont know what to do" weight lifted off my shoulders.. I think i know what to do now ;)

Which fund did you find this in if you dont mind sharing?

[toy71camaro]

Which fund did you find this in if you dont mind sharing?

Dont mind at all! This funds ticker is: RWMFX

I dont have all 8 funds tickers with me at the moment (left my notebook at home). But if you'd like, I can list all 8 "Large Cap" funds that i was comparing this evening or tomorrow... (wouldnt mind if someone wanted to "doublecheck" my theory on those 8 diff funds. LOL)

[Sieg]

Way to do your homework Albert and thanks for the share. :thumbsup:

[toy71camaro]

Way to do your homework Albert and thanks for the share. :thumbsup:

No problem! any way I can help, I'll try.

:lateral: :cheers: :woot:

[GregWeld]

You know I've said there's a little man on the street that tells everyone to do the opposite of what you've just done.... takes the market up AFTER you sell - -and down AFTER you buy....

Phillip Morse (PM) had grown so much --- and I have such an outsized gain (over 100K on 400K invested) that I "trimmed" 1500 shares earlier in the week.

Of course it's UP almost $2 a share today! I really hate that little guy... I really do!

Although -- for Investing 102 --- the statement "nobody ever went broke taking a profit" is true enough... trimming outsized gains should be a normal course of events for EVERYONE...

[ErikLS2]

For those in the 401(k) world where you only have mutual funds to pick from, this is about the best list of funds you'll find IMHO. Here is the link if you want to read up on the criteria to make the list:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bestfunds/

Large Cap
Fund YTD Return 5 yr Return Expense Ratio Type
AMRMX American Funds American M... +6.34% +2.28% 0.62% Value
SSHFX Sound Shore Fund +14.43% -0.17% 0.95% Value
PRFDX T. Rowe Price Equity Inco... +10.15% +0.59% 0.70% Value
VWNFX Vanguard Windsor II Fund ... +11.79% +0.22% 0.35% Value
SWPPX Schwab S&P 500 Index Fund... +12.11% +1.61% 0.10% Blend
SWTSX Schwab Total Stock Market... +12.42% +2.14% 0.11% Blend
FMIHX FMI Large Cap Fund +10.56% +3.67% 0.97% Blend
SLASX Selected American Shares ... +10.51% -0.31% 0.93% Blend
VTI Vanguard Total Stock Mark... +12.38% +2.11% 0.07% Blend
VOO Vanguard S&P 500 ETF +12.05% -- 0.06% Blend
AMCPX American Funds AMCAP Fund... +12.48% +3.05% 0.73% Growth
JENSX Jensen Quality Growth Fun... +10.18% +3.41% 0.92% Growth
TRBCX T. Rowe Price Blue Chip G... +18.68% +4.41% 0.77% Growth
SEQUX Sequoia Fund +10.51% +5.66% 1.04% Blend

Mid Cap
Fund YTD Return 5 yr Return Expense Ratio Type
DEFIX The Delafield Fund +16.34% +5.41% 1.25% Value
FAMVX Fenimore Asset Management... +10.06% +0.79% 1.24% Blend
VIMSX Vanguard Mid-Cap Index Fu... +13.03% +2.64% 0.26% Blend
VO Vanguard Mid Cap ETF +13.40% +2.74% 0.12% Blend
CAAPX Ariel Appreciation Fund I... +15.79% +3.23% 1.15% Blend
FPPFX FPA Perennial Fund +11.63% +4.66% 1.02% Growth
MERDX Meridian Growth Fund +12.49% +6.75% 0.81% Growth
POAGX PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressi... +14.62% +5.26% 0.69% Growth
WEHIX Weitz Series Fund Hickory... +10.30% +1.33% 1.28% Blend

Small Cap
Fund YTD Return 5 yr Return Expense Ratio Type
PRSVX T. Rowe Price Small-Cap V... +10.96% +3.51% 0.97% Blend
PENNX Royce Pennsylvania Mutual... +12.17% +3.22% 0.90% Blend
NAESX Vanguard Small Capitaliza... +13.03% +3.35% 0.31% Blend
VB Vanguard Small Cap ETF +12.99% +3.47% 0.17% Blend
VBR Vanguard Small Cap Value ... +12.30% +1.34% 0.23% Blend
RYSEX Royce Special Equity Fund... +11.47% +6.71% 1.16% Blend
WAAEX Wasatch Small Cap Growth ... +14.02% +5.94% 1.24% Growth
BERWX Berwyn Fund +15.02% +4.15% 1.26% Blend

Specialty
Fund YTD Return 5 yr Return Expense Ratio Type
CSRSX Cohen & Steers Realty Sha... +9.32% -1.16% 0.97% Real Estate
IGE iShares S&P North America... +3.74% +5.77% 0.48% Natural Resources
RWX SPDR Dow Jones Internatio... +15.68% -6.38% 0.59% Real Estate
SDY SPDR S&P Dividend ETF +5.14% +1.92% 0.35% --
PRNEX T. Rowe Price New Era Fun... +5.14% +3.53% 0.67% Natural Resources
VGSIX Vanguard REIT Index Fund ... +8.83% -1.17% 0.26% Real Estate
VNQ Vanguard REIT Index ETF +9.74% -1.08% 0.12% Real Estate

Foreign
Fund YTD Return 5 yr Return Expense Ratio Type
DODFX Dodge & Cox International... +11.94% -1.56% 0.65% Large Value
OAKIX Oakmark International Fun... +16.13% +1.15% 1.06% Large Value
AEPGX American Funds EuroPacifi... +11.49% +0.84% 0.82% Large Blend
FSIIX Fidelity Spartan Internat... +10.55% -2.87% 0.20% Large Blend
VEA Vanguard Tax-Managed Inte... +11.10% -- 0.12% Large Blend
VEU Vanguard FTSE All-World e... +11.53% -- 0.18% Large Blend
VWIGX Vanguard International Gr... +13.27% +0.51% 0.47% Large Blend
VGTSX Vanguard Total Internatio... +11.26% -1.32% 0.22% Large Blend
VFSVX Vanguard FTSE All-World e... +12.93% -- 0.50% Small/Mid Growth
PRIDX T. Rowe Price Internation... +16.08% +1.09% 1.23% Small/Mid Growth
NEWFX American Funds New World ... +11.67% +4.43% 1.02% Emerging Markets
PRMSX T. Rowe Price Emerging Ma... +11.61% +3.60% 1.26% Emerging Markets
VEIEX Vanguard Emerging Markets... +12.94% +5.88% 0.33% Emerging Markets
VWO Vanguard MSCI Emerging Ma... +13.77% +5.98% 0.20% Emerging Markets
UMBWX Scout International Fund +12.87% +1.71% 0.94% Large Growth

Bond
Fund YTD Return 5 yr Return Expense Ratio Type
AHITX American Funds American H... +3.85% +5.74% 0.67% High Yield
DODIX Dodge & Cox Income Fund +2.11% +6.67% 0.43% Intermediate Term
FPNIX FPA New Income Fund +0.38% +3.59% 0.60% Intermediate Term
HABDX Harbor Bond Fund Institut... +2.21% +7.62% 0.57% Intermediate Term
TIP iShares Barclays TIPS Bon... +0.82% +7.74% 0.20% Inflation Protected
RPIBX T. Rowe Price Internation... +1.13% +5.99% 0.82% World
VIPSX Vanguard Inflation-Protec... +0.92% +7.54% 0.22% Inflation Protected
VWITX Vanguard Intermediate-Ter... +0.50% +5.23% 0.20% Muni
VBISX Vanguard Short-Term Bond ... +0.09% +4.60% 0.22% Short Term
BSV Vanguard Short-Term Bond ... +0.12% -- 0.11% Short Term
VBMFX Vanguard Total Bond Marke... -0.18% +6.25% 0.22% Intermediate Term
BND Vanguard Total Bond Marke... -0.31% -- 0.11% Intermediate Term
LSBRX Loomis Sayles Bond Fund C... +5.33% +7.12% 0.92% Multisector

Balanced Funds
Fund YTD Return 5 yr Return Expense Ratio Type
PRWCX T. Rowe Price Capital App... +9.07% +4.92% 0.73% Balanced
VWELX Vanguard Wellington Fund ... +6.51% +4.62% 0.27% Balanced

Target Retirement
Fund YTD Return 5 yr Return Expense Ratio Type
TRRBX T. Rowe Price Retirement ... +10.12% +3.15% 0.69% --
VTTHX Vanguard Target Retiremen... +10.63% +1.94% 0.19% --

[GregWeld]

When you look at the performance of this ENTIRE LIST of funds -- check their FIVE YEAR RETURN.... almost all of them have an absolutely DISMAL return of 5% or less... There's only about a handful (5?) that are over 5% and most are far worse than that.

I wish I could swear right now! OMG.... really? FIVE YEARS for 5% per year... Wow! Just Wow!



Think about this -- Phillip Morse (PM) is UP 35% in ONE YEAR -- and UP 10% since the beginning of the year... and that's an old worn out SIN stock!! That's the PRICE appreciation --- not counting the dividend of 3.48%


Did I ever mention how much I hate Mutual Funds?? :rofl: :D

[GregWeld]

BTW -- ERIC!! I'm not picking on you.... or your post... just pointing out the poor performance -- and this is a listing of the "best". WOW! Horrendous...
No wonder people give up saving any money!!

[toy71camaro]

@ Eric....

Figures.. not ONE fund I in my "available choices" list is on that list. lmao.

oh well, back to doing it my way ;)

[GregWeld]

@ Eric....

Figures.. not ONE fund I in my "available choices" list is on that list. lmao.

oh well, back to doing it my way ;)



That's another "problem" with work chosen 401's... sadly -- so many of them are just a "place holder" that some manager has chosen... and you're stuck with them.

I've talked to many people who have saved via these programs religiously -- and taken full advantage of the matching funds -- only to find out they've been going behind! OMG... It just kills ya to hear that kind of stuff. Since it's so needless. If the managers would just do their jobs and find good funds for their employees. But most of the guys/gals choosing this stuff - aren't knowledgeable themselves!

[GregWeld]

Investor attention turns next to corporate earnings announcements, which begin when aluminum maker Alcoa, one of the 30 stocks that make up the Dow, reports April 10.

[Bucketlist2012]

That's another "problem" with work chosen 401's... sadly -- so many of them are just a "place holder" that some manager has chosen... and you're stuck with them.

I've talked to many people who have saved via these programs religiously -- and taken full advantage of the matching funds -- only to find out they've been going behind! OMG... It just kills ya to hear that kind of stuff. Since it's so needless. If the managers would just do their jobs and find good funds for their employees. But most of the guys/gals choosing this stuff - aren't knowledgeable themselves!

Morning Gentlemen..

You really have to be proactive with your Company 401K Plans...It is Great to put away 15% of your pay and get a company match too..Sometimes that is ALL people EVER save...

BUT they are limited on Choices...And they can be DOGS...But worse is the "Mumbo Jumbo " Fees...What are they and why are they there ?........I can't seem to find the breakdown on the fees ? Hmmm.....

As I have said before, only 10% of my Invested assets are in a 401K plan..
But I have been able to shift things around and get 11% to 12% out of it..
Well, the last 9 months or so...My Choices suck, but I work with what they give me..

Greg, 5% over 5 years ? I would lose it, and the people who are losing money in their plans ? Time to change investments.

But I gotta watch it..Because my 401K is in Mutual Funds and I am ready to change it around if I need to..


I could have been adding a lot more to the 401K the last ten years, but I put the other 90% in Schwab over time..

But damn do I love making money...My Wife is hooked too..I just gotta get her more hooKed on racing and I got it made.

I love this Thread:cheers: :lateral:

EDIT....PLEASE remember that you must be investing money you do not need for a LONG time... If we do take a HIT or a correction, you gotta be ready to just let it ride...And your Blend better be so you can sleep at Night.

I have been known to play with Fire, but I am doing it with money I don't need right away. Because the market will go up and sideways and down and up.. I just didn't want people to think it is all a smooth ride for me..It's not..

But I don't care because in the end, it is always for the better.

[ErikLS2]

BTW -- ERIC!! I'm not picking on you.... or your post... just pointing out the poor performance -- and this is a listing of the "best". WOW! Horrendous...
No wonder people give up saving any money!!

Didn't take it that way at all Greg. I agree with you, I knew you would chime in and I posted the list to show what probably the best ones out there have done. That, and if you are in a 401k and have choices that are on the list you'd be better off picking those probably.

I may have mentioned this already in the past but if you happen to have money in a former employer's 401k plan still, you can do a trustee to trustee IRA conversion into somewhere like Schwab and invest it however you please. Only hitch is you can't do this if you are currently working for the plan sponsor.

[GregWeld]

^^^^^^^ :thumbsup: :cheers:


I think the main issue with Mutual Funds is that they are "restricted" generally to investing in their core stocks that the fund was set up for in the beginning. The problem with that is the market is cyclical in nature... and if the hot stock is Chipotle Mexican Grill -- and your mutual fund is into "financials" -- they can't buy it.

That -- and when you look at the top 10 holdings of a fund -- you think -- WOW! That's all good stuff... but when you look deeper -- it's the next 90 that are dragging 'em down. If you could just take your top funds -- and buy only the biggest holding in each one of them... you'd make money. Thus - self directed investing.

Check out Mutual Funds -- write down the top 2 names in each one -- and then look them up -- and their total return -- and my bet is you'd make money hand over fist. But buy the mutual fund -- and you're getting mediocre returns or negative returns. Sad.

[GregWeld]

Just so you guys know.... today I bought 400 shares of Apple (AAPL) and 1000 shares of Chipotle Mexican Grill (CMG) two stocks I've been in and out of for a while now. I should have bought and held.... but WTF!

Just wanted to let you know because now they will both tank from here on out!
:thumbsup: :woot:

[pw2006]

Just so you guys know.... today I bought 400 shares of Apple (AAPL) and 1000 shares of Chipotle Mexican Grill (CMG) two stocks I've been in and out of for a while now. I should have bought and held.... but WTF!

Just wanted to let you know because now they will both tank from here on out!
:thumbsup: :woot:

I hope they don't tank, especially that fruit company. :D

As part of my annual financial plan review in January, I found out that our 401k plan through Schwab, now offers a PCRA account option. A Personal Choice Retirement Account (PCRA) is a self-directed brokerage account that supplements your retirement plan and enables you to contribute retirement plan savings into a wide range of investment choices, beyond the core investments (mutual funds). I opened my PCRA account in Jan and am starting to xfer funds into it. I believe the plans vary by employer, but this link will give you some more information on this potential option.

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/investing/accounts_products/accounts/pcra

:cheers:

[Sieg]

Just so you guys know.... today I bought 400 shares of Apple (AAPL) and 1000 shares of Chipotle Mexican Grill (CMG) two stocks I've been in and out of for a while now. I should have bought and held.... but WTF!

Just wanted to let you know because now they will both tank from here on out!
:thumbsup: :woot:
Thanks!

PS - I liked how the market responded favorably to news of your Toterhome purchase. It actually moved the consumer confidence needle. :D

[WSSix]

So Greg, what do you think a person should do if they have a great company match 401k but the mutual fund that it's invested in is crap and they are locked into just those funds? I know this is a little beyond 102 but I'm curious as to your opinion.

My opinion, and what I may end up doing since I'm somewhat in that boat with my 401k, is to set aside whatever you have to in order to get the max company match as that's free money but not go over that amount. Take the rest that you would have invested or want to invest for retirement and put it else where like a Roth IRA or open a brokerage account.

[GregWeld]

So Greg, what do you think a person should do if they have a great company match 401k but the mutual fund that it's invested in is crap and they are locked into just those funds? I know this is a little beyond 102 but I'm curious as to your opinion.

My opinion, and what I may end up doing since I'm somewhat in that boat with my 401k, is to set aside whatever you have to in order to get the max company match as that's free money but not go over that amount. Take the rest that you would have invested or want to invest for retirement and put it else where like a Roth IRA or open a brokerage account.

The company match is growth in your savings -- so really -- you have to kind of do a "total return" math... you saved 10% - they matched 3% - even if the fund had zero growth... you got a 30% "return". You put in $6 and they added $2.... that right there is a pretty good "return". The problem is -- you're losing out on the COMPOUNDING that continued dividends or growth bring... and that's where the Mutual Funds are KILLING people's retirement.

So - yes - If your fund choices suck.... then take the match... but save more OUTSIDE the company store. Do a ROTH and your own 401 if allowed to. The ROTH is the biggest savings gift EVER.... that growth and redemption without ANY taxes is just huge! 100 grand is a 100 grand..... A 401K is 100 grand but when withdrawn is 80 grand....

The company 401K is all most people ever save -- and that's a big mistake right there. That will "help" but in most cases won't be nearly enough to have a nice retirement. If people really thought about it ..... if you work for 30 years and save $500 a month.... but then you expect to retire and live another 30 years and "make" $3000 a month... that math doesn't really work out.

[Bow Tie 67]

I just found out I have the ability to self direct 50% of my 401k through Chase Investment services.

Fees are $8.95 per trade

$100 per account per year maintenance fee.

I feel like I just won the lottery!! :thumbsup:

Are short term cap gains a non-issue in a self directed 401k? Or how does this work?

[GregWeld]

I just found out I have the ability to self direct 50% of my 401k through Chase Investment services.

Fees are $8.95 per trade

$100 per account per year maintenance fee.

I feel like I just won the lottery!! :thumbsup:

Are short term cap gains a non-issue in a self directed 401k? Or how does this work?


There is no tax due on 401k's until you withdraw.... and then you're paying INCOME TAX on the withdrawals... since money that is put into the 401 is PRE TAX. So you owe taxes on the whole enchilada. Obviously the idea there is that you'll save more - compounding more - and will withdraw when you're at a lower rate.

Don't worry about the LTCG or STCG etc.

[Sieg]

I just found out I have the ability to self direct 50% of my 401k through Chase Investment services.

Fees are $8.95 per trade

$100 per account per year maintenance fee.

I feel like I just won the lottery!! :thumbsup:

Are short term cap gains a non-issue in a self directed 401k? Or how does this work?

Winning! Thank your company for having an option plan. :thumbsup:

[CRCRFT78]

Out of curiousity, how do some of you decide how many shares to buy? I base it on what I can afford given the amount of money I have at that particular moment. For example, Greg, you picked up 400 shares of Apple & 1000 shares of Chipotle Mexican Grill, how did you come up with those numbers? Why not 500/800 shares? Just wondering everyones technique when it comes to picking shares.

[Sieg]

Out of curiousity, how do some of you decide how many shares to buy? I base it on what I can afford given the amount of money I have at that particular moment. For example, Greg, you picked up 400 shares of Apple & 1000 shares of Chipotle Mexican Grill, how did you come up with those numbers? Why not 500/800 shares? Just wondering everyones technique when it comes to picking shares.

http://www.greenbookblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Blindfolded_man_throwing_darts_BLD009417.jpg

:unibrow:

[Bow Tie 67]

http://www.greenbookblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Blindfolded_man_throwing_darts_BLD009417.jpg

:unibrow:


Good one, Lol.

I added to my STD position today which drops my price per share, not to mention the next dividend, if history repeats itself, will be the big one of the year. " fingers crossed "

[WSSix]

For me, I simply bought as many shares as the amount I had to spend would buy.