Front Sub-Frame Comparisons

[tyoneal]

Hello:

Now that a number of, "New" front sub-frames for the Gen 1 Camaro's have been brought to market, Does anyone have any information on how they stack up against each other as far as actual performance is concerned?

For the people who actually Drive their cars hard on a road track, How would/do you set up a 1st gen Camaro without building a complete racing chassis, for optimum performance based on the products available now?

I don't think I have enough background on the subject to hit cc.com yet and post these questions, so any answers or links you know of that can supply this type of information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Ty O'Neal

[Bowtieracing]

I think this is never ending question until some magazine set all of them to some kind of chassis jig use professional equipment to measure all out of em.

Steve ( streetfytr68 ) has a lot of knowlegde and driving experience stock vs aftermarket subs so make a search at suspension section or pm him. Hes opinions have help me a lot

[TravisB]

WE have an art morrison under a car but its not done yet......if it works as good as it looks it will be hard to beat

[XcYZ]

There's no correct answer, too many variables.

BTW, the newest Hot Rod Magazine has a list of the more popular subframes for 1st Gen F-Bodys. They don't do any comparisons, they just put pictures and links to the various manufactures, such as DSE, Art Morrison, etc.

[Silver69Camaro]

The only thing I can say is both our subframe and DSE's will both drive superbly. Trying to compare the performance of the two is truly splitting hairs. The only thing you have to decide is what look you're trying to go for (fabbed look or hydroformed).

Both would also have equal track-performance potential...IF the driver can push it that far.

[mazspeed]

I think a full frame morrison would be hard too beat.

[Steve Chryssos]

Originally Posted by tyoneal

Hello:

...For the people who actually Drive their cars......

Ty,
I doubt that either clip has been available long enough to get a first hand account from end users. Clips have just started to enter the marketplace. I would guess that most cars are under construction or recently finished.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I think both are excellent. I am sure The DSE chassis is well designed, and I know Art won't sell anything but killer stuff that works. I personally tend to lean towards the fabricated look and aluminum Corvette components. I also like the fact the AM is $1000 less.

[PTAddict]

StreetFtry68 is right - neither of these two frames has been out long enough for much user feedback. That said, I just ordered the DSE sub. For what it's worth, here was my reasoning:

- Good engineers are going to get the basics pretty much right. There's not much rocket science to knowing what to do with FVSA, SVSA, camber gain, bump steer, roll center, etc. Some systems are engineered - I'd put DSE and Morrison both in that category - and some either aren't or don't make a point of proving it.

- The Tuckers are ride and handling engineers by training and experience. They have a particular philosophy about suspension design - about springing, damping, and anti-roll - that I agree with. Call it the European school.

- I wanted to buy a well-sorted front and rear (Q-link) combo that was thoroughly tested together, and supported by the same company. I really love the lat-dynamics 3-link, and clearly understand its theoretical advantanges, but I wanted a one stop shop when it came to getting the out of the box setup in the ballpark, as well as advice when it came to tweaking at the margins. (BTW, in a year or so, I'm sure the lat-dynamics folks will be there).

- I've been a customer of DSE for 7 years, since Kyle was the only employee. The personal character and professional service has been absolutely impeccable the entire time. And the fact that my wife and I are both MEs, like the Tuckers, probably accounts for the fact that I like their understated style of communication.

- The cost difference is not much in the total context of one of these projects, and it's partly deceptive - for instance, if you have DSE powder coat your frame, they assemble it for you. No biggy, but if you're paying a pro to do it, the shop time for assembly adds up.

At the end of the day, I can still understand anyone going Morrison instead. I have a Morrison Tri5 frame under my wife's 55 Belair, and it's a great piece of craftsmanship that makes the car drive like a late model sports sedan. And their customer service was also terrific.

I guess the bottom line for me is this - compared to the last full-on project I undertook 6 years ago, we now have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to choosing almost every major system of these cars. And there are so many great people building businesses on this hobby, you almost want to give them all some business. Flip a coin, you can't lose.

[tyoneal]

To all:

Thanks to all for the input.

Maybe I should address it this way:

The rear suspension will be the Lateral Dynamics 3-Link.

This said, are there any preferences one way or the other with the sub-frames currently available?

Given you could choose any front suspension to go with the 3-link, what would it be, and why?

It doesn't matter whether or not it is on the market yet or not. I guess if it would make a big difference I could always investigate having one built.

What aspects from a road racing suspension would be desirable to have on a car that would see the street and track?

What types of adjustability would be really nice to have on a 1st Gen Camaro, or any other muscle car?

Could you please explain the, "European school", of suspension?

What are the other schools and what differences are there between them?

I know these are broad questions, but I'm trying to understand the bigger picture so your responses and be put into context.

Thanks a million for all your help and indulgence.

Best Regards,

Ty O'Neal