An LS-2, Turbo vs. Supercharger

[tyoneal]

To all:

I've heard that a well built Twin Turbo LS-2 will make gobs of power and still get 20-25 MPG.

Is this not possible with a Supercharger. (Magnacharger, Procharger, or??)

The new Superchargers boast that they hardly take any power to run when cruising. Whether actually true or not, I don't have the experience to say one way or the other.

My Goals are 550-575 RWHP with possibly a 6L80e (When and if they can be programable and trick like the 4L80e's, a 6 Speed Shrifter would be cool)

Dependablity, and as good of mileage as possible (Maybe the same as turbo?)

Don't need huge power, or huge engine just a good dependable, street friendly etc. etc.

I've never seen the Shifter work, but I saw a special on the Ferrari Enzo. The paddle shifter on it look like it would be a blast. I realize that this is technically an apples and oranges comparison, but I'm trying to create a clear picture.

This is probably a pipe dream but a properly built twin turbo LSx can really add up quick. $25-$40K

There are a mess of Supercharger companies out there, and I just want to really understand how, or if I could rest these goals without a second mortgage on the house.

Can this be done? If so how, and with what parts?

I mentioned magna charger because I think I saw an add for putting one of their units on a LS-2 Vette and getting around 700 hp out of it.

I would really appreciate any and all thoughts on this idea. I know a BBC is easy and quick, but the new technology is just awesome and I would really like to buy/make the, "Perfect" combination for a very fun engine combination on the street and track and for Power Tour.

Thanks,

tyoneal

[Bowtieracing]

I love the racy look of big twin turbo system but i dont believe they will be ever be as debendable as simple supercharger.Heat issues are big factor,even the best build systems need a lot more attention. Offcourse 1000+ hp is something wich cant be made with any belt driven supercharger.

[californiacuda]

Here is some supercharger information, probably more than you want.

There generally 2 types of superchargers, positive displacement like Magnacharger, Whipple, Kenne Bell (these units sit directly on top of the intake manifold), or centrifugal like Procharger or Vortec which are located in the front of the engine in a location similar to the alternator or a/c unit.

The positive displacement sc companies have designed their units with a bypass valve that opens when the car is running in a vacuum condition. This bypass valve circulates the air that comes out of the compressed air end of the sc back to the intake, so that no boost is made and the sc is free wheeling and not taking much energy from the engine( less than 10 hp). Under acceleration the bypass valve is closed and the sc can make boost.

The positive displacement units are 1 of 2 design, either roots, or screw type. The screw type is generally considered to be more efficient.

A great feature of the positive displacement sc's is that they produce immediate, low rpm boost and massive torque. At lower speeds it is the torque that you feel in the seat of your pants when you accelerate.

The centrifugal sc's like the Pro Charger have tq and hp curves that are more similar to turbos. They don't come on as quickly as positive displacement, but will some times have more top end. I am not sure if the centrifugal units have bypass valves.

Superchargers are typically easier to install than turbos, less plumbing rework and simpler to operate. At full boost the sc's do rob the engine of hp to run them. So, when the dyno shows the engine making 600 hp, it is actually making 700, but a hundred is being taken away to run the sc.

Sorry for the long winded explanation, I just get wound up some times.

[Mizfit]

You should consider the following:

1.Horsepower and Torque Goals: Which you have 550-570. It is very easy to make this goal with a turbo supercharger or even an N/A 402-454 big cube LS1.

2.Time: How quick do you want your project finished. Superchargers are way easier to install and you can be one the road in no time. I am not saying that with a good turbo builder that you can't get it done quickly but overall it is more time consuming.

3. Price: Both can be close in price but on average the superchargers are way less in price. Like you stated turbo's can add up quickly. Magnacharger is built for stock displacement type LS1's. Where Kenne Bell and Whipple are for the bigger cube LS1's.

In conclusion:

*Superchargers are Cheap, Easy to install and make great power. Will absolutely meet your needs

*Turbo's: Expensive, Very impressive under the hood, more time consuming but make better power. Will meet and exceed your power goals.


Just my 2 cents.

Taylor
Mizfit MotorSports

PS- We went with a Kenne Bell on ours because they can make great power and look pretty badass in opinion.

[Datsbad]

Originally Posted by Mizfit

You should consider the following:

1.Horsepower and Torque Goals: Which you have 550-570. It is very easy to make this goal with a turbo supercharger or even an N/A 402-454 big cube LS1.

2.Time: How quick do you want your project finished. Superchargers are way easier to install and you can be one the road in no time. I am not saying that with a good turbo builder that you can't get it done quickly but overall it is more time consuming.

3. Price: Both can be close in price but on average the superchargers are way less in price. Like you stated turbo's can add up quickly. Magnacharger is built for stock displacement type LS1's. Where Kenne Bell and Whipple are for the bigger cube LS1's.

In conclusion:

*Superchargers are Cheap, Easy to install and make great power. Will absolutely meet your needs

*Turbo's: Expensive, Very impressive under the hood, more time consuming but make better power. Will meet and exceed your power goals.


Just my 2 cents.

Taylor
Mizfit MotorSports


Well said , I second this .

PS- We went with a Kenne Bell on ours because they can make great power and look pretty badass in opinion.

Well said , I second this . I dont think a turbo is what you need for your goals

[chicane]

I just read an article in one of the late rags...

A KB SC on a GenIII LS2 made something like 770 hp at the fly... and the tuner stated that he could dial it into 790+ with some minor ECU tweaks.

I just cant remember if it was Car Crap or Hot Knob.

Dropping some positive displacement in should easily make your numbers. I myself would go air to H20, SC. No lag... torque everywhere... and bitchen MPG.

[Jr]

Originally Posted by chicane

I just read an article in one of the late rags...

A KB SC on a GenIII LS2 made something like 770 hp at the fly... and the tuner stated that he could dial it into 790+ with some minor ECU tweaks.

I just cant remember if it was Car Crap or Hot Knob.

Dropping some positive displacement in should easily make your numbers. I myself would go air to H20, SC. No lag... torque everywhere... and bitchen MPG.

Was this the orange corvette? If so, it has a magnacharged 402ci ls motor.

[chicane]

Didnt state chassis or anything... it was still refering to flywheel numbers and tuning. Maybe that issue was a month or two old ??

I dunno... but anyway, 770 at the wheel is pretty solid. I wanna say it was Joe Sherman or Duttwilier that did the build... but not sure on that either. I look at it tomorrow when I get to work.

[tyoneal]

Originally Posted by californiacuda

Here is some supercharger information, probably more than you want.

There generally 2 types of superchargers, positive displacement like Magnacharger, Whipple, Kenne Bell (these units sit directly on top of the intake manifold), or centrifugal like Procharger or Vortec which are located in the front of the engine in a location similar to the alternator or a/c unit.

The positive displacement sc companies have designed their units with a bypass valve that opens when the car is running in a vacuum condition. This bypass valve circulates the air that comes out of the compressed air end of the sc back to the intake, so that no boost is made and the sc is free wheeling and not taking much energy from the engine( less than 10 hp). Under acceleration the bypass valve is closed and the sc can make boost.

The positive displacement units are 1 of 2 design, either roots, or screw type. The screw type is generally considered to be more efficient.

A great feature of the positive displacement sc's is that they produce immediate, low rpm boost and massive torque. At lower speeds it is the torque that you feel in the seat of your pants when you accelerate.

The centrifugal sc's like the Pro Charger have tq and hp curves that are more similar to turbos. They don't come on as quickly as positive displacement, but will some times have more top end. I am not sure if the centrifugal units have bypass valves.

Superchargers are typically easier to install than turbos, less plumbing rework and simpler to operate. At full boost the sc's do rob the engine of hp to run them. So, when the dyno shows the engine making 600 hp, it is actually making 700, but a hundred is being taken away to run the sc.

Sorry for the long winded explanation, I just get wound up some times.

Your explaination is very welcome. The more Technical the reasoning of the imput is very helpfull and appreciated.

Thanks,

tyoneal

[tyoneal]

Originally Posted by chicane

Didnt state chassis or anything... it was still refering to flywheel numbers and tuning. Maybe that issue was a month or two old ??

I dunno... but anyway, 770 at the wheel is pretty solid. I wanna say it was Joe Sherman or Duttwilier that did the build... but not sure on that either. I look at it tomorrow when I get to work.

Chicane:

770 at the flywheel would do well. I could always tune it underneith that if I wanted to.

Thank you for your information. If you stumble accross those, "Rags", I would appreciate the dates of them. A set up like this sounds like it would be fairly easy, dependable and a good bang for a buck.

Thanks,

Ty