Disturbing new law being proposed...

[RussMurco]

Apparently the auto manufacturers are not pleased with people tinkering with their products and want to enforce sections of the "Digital Copyright Act" that the lobbying group that represents them. They feel that the laws apply to automotive technology and are arguing that enthusiasts can do everything from render vital systems inoperable to roll-back digital odometers. Basically the same things we've been able to do, but haven't, for decades.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

[JsTA]

I really don't care what they say or rule. I will continue to do what I want with the vehicles I paid for.

[zz430droptop67rs]

And they are going to enforce this how?

[JB400]

I would have thought that this was covered under the warranty laws. You modify your car, the factory is no longer liable for it.

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by zz430droptop67rs

And they are going to enforce this how?

Well, "if" they can get this passed (and that's a big "if"), they could render all tuning software illegal. You'd be able to continue tuning anything you have now with your current tuner, but the updates to later models would stop, and no new tuning systems like HP Tuners and EFI Live would be sold. As new models of cars roll out you'd be stuck with whatever tuning the car came with, with no option for a performance boost. I'd think the diesel guys would really scream as there's huge gains in both performance and mileage through tuning now.

Guess it's a wait and see deal now. They're presenting it as a safety issue where a "tuner" could lose his electronic brakes or steering by making a coding error. I've never heard of this happening, or seen a tuner that gave me power over those systems. But common sense doesn't mean much to lawmakers who often go off emotion it seems.

[Sieg]

One reason I stay away from EFI due to my experiences with EFI on motorcycles where companies like Ducati and KTM have strict control over ECU alteration and the equipment need to alter.

If the systems were flawless, no problem, when they are flawed......big problem. Mapping in '06-'10 for both companies was flawed and resulted in crappy off-idle/trailing throttle transitions which is downright dangerous on a bike being pushed hard on the street or track.......worse yet, the certified competent dealers couldn't fix resolve the issues. Downstream programmers such as the Power Commander could bandaid the issue but would still not deliver transitions comparable to a properly setup carb.

The proprietary nature of this has kept me from being an automotive EFI victim.

In the manufacturers lock up control on the systems, their legal liability department and the EPA regulations will certainly restrict/control system potential.

[NOPANTS68]

These types of things are already happening in the diesel world. When I bought my Cummins, I immediately bought a tuner, DPF delete and an intake. These mods resulted in a 5 mpg difference and a truck that is vastly smoother and more crisp while keeping the "tune" in stock power mode. Within 24 months of these kits being sold, the EPA was able to use many different channels of power to enforce the stopping of these kits being made and sold. You can no longer buy a DPF delete kit with a programmer that turns off the ridiculous "regen" fuel system. Pretty pathetic.

For clarity purposes- the DPF is a diesel particulate filter and the "regen" system is a pair of fuel lines and spouts that introduces raw fuel from the fuel pump into the cats to super heat them. The EPA's thought in mandating these types of systems was that the trucks would run cleaner because the cats would remain hotter during the truck's operation. You can all imagine what happens with the 6.7 system when raw fuel is sprayed into an idling truck's cat- it makes thick, black soot. This soot is trapped in the webs of the DPF, the DPF's increase in positive pipe pressure forces the ECU into limp mode, and the truck requires a $1500 "cleaning" which can only be done at a dealer. With this system disabled, my truck gets 16 mpg city and 22 freeway- towing my '29. Aftermarket- win again.

[ProTouring442]

Originally Posted by NOPANTS68

These types of things are already happening in the diesel world. When I bought my Cummins, I immediately bought a tuner, DPF delete and an intake. These mods resulted in a 5 mpg difference and a truck that is vastly smoother and more crisp while keeping the "tune" in stock power mode. Within 24 months of these kits being sold, the EPA was able to use many different channels of power to enforce the stopping of these kits being made and sold. You can no longer buy a DPF delete kit with a programmer that turns off the ridiculous "regen" fuel system. Pretty pathetic.

For clarity purposes- the DPF is a diesel particulate filter and the "regen" system is a pair of fuel lines and spouts that introduces raw fuel from the fuel pump into the cats to super heat them. The EPA's thought in mandating these types of systems was that the trucks would run cleaner because the cats would remain hotter during the truck's operation. You can all imagine what happens with the 6.7 system when raw fuel is sprayed into an idling truck's cat- it makes thick, black soot. This soot is trapped in the webs of the DPF, the DPF's increase in positive pipe pressure forces the ECU into limp mode, and the truck requires a $1500 "cleaning" which can only be done at a dealer. With this system disabled, my truck gets 16 mpg city and 22 freeway- towing my '29. Aftermarket- win again.

Actually, since it has been federally illegal to remove or disable a pollution control device since the 1970's, it was already illegal to make such changes on a tagged vehicle. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it, only that it was already illegal.

[ProTouring442]

I think much of the issue is that cars are becoming more and more automated. Drive by wire throttle is now common place. Mercedes (others too perhaps) has already introduced brake by wire, and many cars can turn the steering wheel and apply the brakes without driver input. With the move to automation comes a complexity with which the average Joe simply will not be capable of contending. I am not here saying I agree with this legislation (or even the degree of automation now in cars, much less the degree to which cars are heading), only that I can understand why such legislation might be introduced. Assuming cars and truck continue to become more and more automated, I see a future not only where the shade tree mechanic is outlawed, but even where the average small shop is as well. Automotive repair facilities will become more and more like aircraft repair facilities, with mapped out repairs that must be followed to the letter, and inspectors who examine every step to ensure each repair is done to spec.

[NOPANTS68]

Originally Posted by ProTouring442

Actually, since it has been federally illegal to remove or disable a pollution control device since the 1970's, it was already illegal to make such changes on a tagged vehicle. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it, only that it was already illegal.

While I recognize that it's illegal to remove a functioning emissions system, I'm simply showing the improved effects from the aftermarket manufacturer's parts. More to the point is that the fed was able to reach into the aftermarket and stop the process of building "off road' parts.