What is "Best"?

[tyoneal]

This is in regards to a 1969 Camaro.

To All:

It seems that every company has a good product in one or more aspect of a good suspension, however, I'm not hearing that anyone has something that is distictively, "Better", than anyone else.

There is a lot of debate one way or the other, much of it really compelling, but, none of it really substanciated. Actual Test Data is scarce, just about everything is subjective and anecdotal. I appreciate the businesses who make this forum available for us to gather at to discuss and learn about this great American Pastime. I also understand someone wanting to advertise and push their products. Further, I have no doubt that all of the businesses who sponser this site make good quality products.

This being said however, there has to be a "best" system or part for Pro-Touring/Road Racing that stands above the rest. From what I have read so far is basically, everyone is as good as everyone else. Now that may in fact be true, but not necessarily.

I really wish there was some hard data available for these different systems/parts so one could shop according to their Wants, Needs or Budget. You could argue we have that now, except I haven't seen a clear leader in any of the similar products offered by a number of different Companies.

If I have missed this data somewhere, could someone please point me in the right direction.

I personally would consider spending the extra money necessary to purchase a, "Better or a Best", system if it was possible to figure out what that was. Is there a reason a, "Best", system has not been put on the market for this application?

If the specific application makes this question so hard to answer, what are the variables that cause this difficulty?

What are the different types of, "Pro-Touring", that one should be aware of when looking for and buying parts?

Is a, "Best", system inherently subjective? Are all the companies products so good that if cost was not an issue, nothing about these products would change significantly?

I'm really looking forward to some insite into these questions.

Thanks,

tyoneal

[MODO Innovations]

This might not be what you are looking for but it is a good read anyway.
It is a story about DSE. For suspension components, or anything else they offer you can't go wrong.


http://www.stewartcomponents.com/cgi...002/000231.htm

[Teetoe_Jones]

I think you are going to get as many answers as you have products available.

You might want to narrow the categories. The best bolt on subframe won't compare to a scratch built full framed car. The price levels on each are also very far apart. Some aren't willing to cut up a car and require a bolt on part. Others prefer to build a car to meet exact criteria. A great example of this is John Parson's II Much. He has the 'Best' of everything on the car, and hardly anything is an off the shelf item.


Give us your list of things you will do (or have a shop do), won't do, and maybe an intended usage for the vehicle. (Be realistic to YOU. You are the main one driving the car once completed, make sure its enjoyable in its intended role.) A realistic budget we have to recommend 'best' brands for each section of the build (suspension, brakes, etc) would help too.


If I'm to help you go in a certain direction for your car, I want to feel I gave you the best advice I can with the info you gave me.


Tyler

[Payton King]

Best answer that I have heard or read for that matter Tyler.!


Decide what you want to do with the car and work backwards. Some will beat the crap out of their car and others will just cruise and smile. Keep in mind that the best street car is not so hot on the track, and a great track car is not so hot on the street. The key is what you want and try to strike a balance of what is acceptable road manners for your car.

Good luck

[Steve Chryssos]

Over the last two years, PHR and Super Chevy have run a number of vehicle tests in both their car features and their tech articles. Spend some time clicking thru the archives on their websites. A lot of data is readily available with more on the way. You just have to go looking for it.
And remember that data is a double edged sword. No matter how valid the data might be, there will always be someone who disagrees with the results. Take it all with a grain of salt because in the real world, differences in data usually mean very little on a hot rod driven on the street at 5/10ths.

[XcYZ]

IMO, it boils down to your definition of best. Everything is a trade off. As noted above, we give up some performance for the sake of ride, we give up some ride comfort for the sake of performance. I say set a goal for the car, outline it's intended use, then design the build accordingly.

[astroracer]

Define "best" as you see fit for your car or situation. As everyone above has said, you HAVE to define the end usage for your car and then use the "best" parts that fit that description...
As an example:
The "best" set of road racing control arms in the world will do you no good on a street driven car. I see this question asked here all the time and it is frustrating to see guys spending thousands of dollars on equipment that they will never get the full benefit from. Sure is pretty though... Payton hit the nail on the head with his comment. " Keep in mind that the best street car is not so hot on the track, and a great track car is not so hot on the street." Again, what are you building? Race car or street car...
Another example:
A street driven car will see night and day benefits from a good bushing, sway bar and shock upgrade which is much less spendy then a full set of custom control arms but, it is a "better" upgrade for the end usage. To get the full effect from a set of custom arms (on a track) the bushings are usually solid and these, along with radical alignment settings, just don't work well on a street driven car.
As you stated in your first post the definition of "best" is highly subjective and that definition, again, is defined by you and your car.
Mark

[Stuart Adams]

There is no "best" in terms of what you are asking.

A 69 Camaro road racing/pro touring setup is your question.

Even the best road racers alter setups all the time and their setup would be completly different for street cruising.

No such thing as best, IMO. Unless your talking about the Steelers, LOL.

[trapin]

Another thing to remember is, before you buy something...ask yourself if it's really necessary. Are you putting the part on your car for the "bling effect" or do you feel it's really going to be needed for the application? A good example are these aftermarket control arms. Yes...there are some geometric beneifts to them, but in the grand scheme of things, you don't necessarily HAVE to have them on your car to improve your suspensions performance. Talk to David Pozzi...he's been apexing circuits (and winning) for close to 30 years and he's never needed them. Now granted if I had the money they'd be on my car because I think they look great, but it would be purely for cosmetic reasons (and there's nothing wrong with that if that's the route you're going). I'll also echo what's previously been said about street cars and race cars. My suspension looks like this....

- Stock frame
- Stock arms
- Del-A-Lum bushings
- Global West billet cross shafts
- Global West tie rod sleeves
- Helwig 1" sway bar
- Koni adjustable shocks
- Hotchkis 2" drop springs
- ATS/AFX Spindles
- Touring Classics C5 front brakes

That's all I'm going to need for a street car.

And if I ever do decide to stretch her legs on a road course...I doubt I'll have too much trouble keeping up.

[tyoneal]

Ok, I think I know where you guys are going with your feedback.

My question is way to broad. I need to put in into contex as to prefrence, use, budget and so on...............

I will give this a shot by giving my goal, then my method in meeting my goal. At that point a, "Best" can be evaluated.

Car: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
Style - Pro-Touring/Road Racing
3 "G" Capable

Engine - BBC 565 C.I., Hogan EFI, Dart Aluminum Block, 750 hp
Transmission - 4L80e w/ Shrifter
Rear End - Ford 9 inch.

Suspension:
Front - DSE Sub-Frame, Coil-Over's, w/ 1 1/8 inch Sway Bar, 13 inch. Baer Brakes w/ 6 Piston Calipers, Rack and Pinion Steering,

Rear - DSE Triangulated Four Bar Rear Suspension, Coil Over Shock's, Baer 12 inch w/ 4 Piston Calipers, Mini-Tubs

Tires and Wheels
Rear 18X12's 335-30-18
Front 18X10 295-45-18
---------------------------------------------------------------

Let's Start with this.

Now, what is, "Best"?

tyoneal