One more thought on GM's downfall

[Ummgawa]

I know a lot of folk here probably think GM should have done this or done that to survive. And Obama this that and the other. Yadda Yadda Yadda Economy.

I have grown up with General Motors for the past 49 years as a constant.

I am not heart broken over it's bankruptcy. I am saddened by it. Why?

Corvettes. Chevelles. Camaros. GTO's. Grand Sports, 442's. The Judge. W-30. Stage 1 and Stage 2's, 427 tri power/4 speed/side pipe Corvettes. Z-28. LS-6, LS-7, L-88, LT-1. 12 bolt posi's.

The New stuff ZR-1's Z06's The new Camaro.

I have grown up on this stuff. Wispers when my Uncles would tell me and my brother at family reunions as a kid in the 60's about the new bad ass cars that GM was coming out with that was being built at the Lakewood GM plant outside Atlanta. Going to the Original Chick-fil-A Dwarf House being served by Truett Cathey himself and then going to visit the plant to see the run of Judges being built because my Uncle's told me so and it was a big deal. Remembering the day in late 1969 when my Uncles told me that GM was running LS-6 Chevelles and that they were "bad ass". My Uncle being in charge of the COPO cage at The plant for 16 years and knowing what that meant at 8 years old. It meant that he could figure out how to get a 427 Corvette motor installed in my other Uncle's 66 Super Sport when he "walked it down the line". Pallets of Rock Crusher Transmissions and crates of Big Blocks as far as my eyes could comprehend.

Man I remember Orbit Orange day on the 70 Judges.


That, my friends, is what I will miss.

[Fluid Power]

Jim,

With that being said, GM is a story in the history books of manufacturing in the United States. I just finished reading a book about the Crosley's, (the radio, the 'fridge, the car, owned the Reds, etc) They built all of those things in Cincinnati! EVERYTHING!

I have a customer that "manufacturers" rear ends for ATV's golf carts, JD Gators etc, the housings and internals are made in China, they are assembled here and qualify as being made in the USA. All they do is weld tabs on the housings and fill them with oil....

Sad story, not just for GM, but for manufacturing in general.


Darren

[Stuart Adams]

It's all positive for me, I'm hoping they come back better than ever. Lean and mean.

[tones2SS]

Yeah, it's really sad.
I wasn't born yet in the 60's, but I bet those days were real fun. It's too bad no one will see those days again, in my opinion. It's just too bad.

[Mick Mc]

I love and have loved all of GM's performance offerings...


But my theory is this

GM started on on the way down in late seventy's, early eighty's.
Back in the early 80's I remember hearing people saying my Toyota Corolla, pick-up etc lasted 200,000+ miles, this Toyota thing is very reliable...
About the same time GM was making garbage including the Citation and the crappy Corvette and other crappy almost electronic, very unreliable garbage they called vehicles. Side note Chrysler was making crap too called the K-car. And Ford was no better.
So as time when on people were still loyal to GM and started to get really disgusted with taking the car to the dealer all the time to get fixed, they started to pursue what they had been hearing now for at least 10 years about how reliable this 'other' car company was. This was the deciated GM buyer looking for a good quality car. They had stuck to their guns and bought 'American' but were fed up with all of the reliablilty issues (and lack of anything cool) and went out and purchased a Honda, Nissian or a Toyota.
Wow these foreign jobbers are cool and fast and reliable.
And now GM, among others, was seeing a declining market share because of problems they had a decade ago. Marketing and preception take a long time to work but it all comes around.
Becareful of the crappy product you produce today because tomorrow it will bite you in the a$$.


Mick

[Mick Mc]

I just heard the argument that if GM had of just produced cars that got better gas mileage everything would have worked out. The gas mileage argument works for o'bama and the CAFE regulations but not in real life.

Everyone knows that Hometown buffet is bad for you, but the place is packed. Healthy food is good for you. Hometown buffet has a packed parking lot everyday, and evey person I've seen walk out the door (I drive buy one at least once a week) is 425, and no thats not metric.

GM made cars and trucks that people wanted to buy.
Yes, it's funny to see a guy driving a four door, one ton, without a scratch in the bed, on the way to the office in the morning.
The cars people should have been buying were the high gas mileage, but no, then 'need' and 'deserve' a ten miles to a gallon H2, and the advertising said it was way safer than a compact car.
People were buying what they wanted not what they needed, it's a free country that's why I love this place. Everyone can make their own decisions.

CAFE regulations forced the car companies to produce something like twenty econo-boxes for every non gas mileage vehicle they produced. So for every one ton truck GM had to produce twenty Cobalt's. Thanks, I'm from the govenment and we're here to help you...

Planned obsolescence.
Remember when GM make the 73 truck? The truck didn't really change untill 1981 and technically it didn't change until 1989.
The Camaro was 70 1/2 thru 1983 (I think)
Today the truck, and all of the models, changes every couple of years. I was just beginning to like one body style and now they have something completly dirrerent.

What is this the cell phone model?
I take my phone in to the phone store and the gum smaking, hold on a second I'm texting my girl friend (either saving the world or making a million dollar deal) rolling her eyes and tells me my one year old phone is sooo ooold, they don't even make aaaanthing for ttthat model anymore.


Financing
How could I not want a new car every 2.4 years (yes it's a true national average).
I get a rebate and the interest rate is soooo low.
Oh you want to lease a car now you can afford twice as much car.
GM forced me buy a new truck, yea it's their fault...


Mick

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Originally Posted by Mick Mc

I just heard the argument that if GM had of just produced cars that got better gas mileage everything would have worked out. The gas mileage argument works for o'bama and the CAFE regulations but not in real life.

Everyone knows that Hometown buffet is bad for you, but the place is packed. Healthy food is good for you. Hometown buffet has a packed parking lot everyday, and evey person I've seen walk out the door (I drive buy one at least once a week) is 425, and no thats not metric.

GM made cars and trucks that people wanted to buy.
Yes, it's funny to see a guy driving a four door, one ton, without a scratch in the bed, on the way to the office in the morning.
The cars people should have been buying were the high gas mileage, but no, then 'need' and 'deserve' a ten miles to a gallon H2, and the advertising said it was way safer than a compact car.
People were buying what they wanted not what they needed, it's a free country that's why I love this place. Everyone can make their own decisions.

CAFE regulations forced the car companies to produce something like twenty econo-boxes for every non gas mileage vehicle they produced. So for every one ton truck GM had to produce twenty Cobalt's. Thanks, I'm from the govenment and we're here to help you...

Planned obsolescence.
Remember when GM make the 73 truck? The truck didn't really change untill 1981 and technically it didn't change until 1989.
The Camaro was 70 1/2 thru 1983 (I think)
Today the truck, and all of the models, changes every couple of years. I was just beginning to like one body style and now they have something completly dirrerent.

What is this the cell phone model?
I take my phone in to the phone store and the gum smaking, hold on a second I'm texting my girl friend (either saving the world or making a million dollar deal) rolling her eyes and tells me my one year old phone is sooo ooold, they don't even make aaaanthing for ttthat model anymore.


Financing
How could I not want a new car every 2.4 years (yes it's a true national average).
I get a rebate and the interest rate is soooo low.
Oh you want to lease a car now you can afford twice as much car.
GM forced me buy a new truck, yea it's their fault...


Mick

[SWAPMEETCRAZY]

Originally Posted by Mick Mc

I just heard the argument that if GM had of just produced cars that got better gas mileage everything would have worked out. The gas mileage argument works for o'bama and the CAFE regulations but not in real life.

Everyone knows that Hometown buffet is bad for you, but the place is packed. Healthy food is good for you. Hometown buffet has a packed parking lot everyday, and evey person I've seen walk out the door (I drive buy one at least once a week) is 425, and no thats not metric.

GM made cars and trucks that people wanted to buy.
Yes, it's funny to see a guy driving a four door, one ton, without a scratch in the bed, on the way to the office in the morning.
The cars people should have been buying were the high gas mileage, but no, then 'need' and 'deserve' a ten miles to a gallon H2, and the advertising said it was way safer than a compact car.
People were buying what they wanted not what they needed, it's a free country that's why I love this place. Everyone can make their own decisions.

CAFE regulations forced the car companies to produce something like twenty econo-boxes for every non gas mileage vehicle they produced. So for every one ton truck GM had to produce twenty Cobalt's. Thanks, I'm from the govenment and we're here to help you...

Planned obsolescence.
Remember when GM make the 73 truck? The truck didn't really change untill 1981 and technically it didn't change until 1989.
The Camaro was 70 1/2 thru 1983 (I think)
Today the truck, and all of the models, changes every couple of years. I was just beginning to like one body style and now they have something completly dirrerent.

What is this the cell phone model?
I take my phone in to the phone store and the gum smaking, hold on a second I'm texting my girl friend (either saving the world or making a million dollar deal) rolling her eyes and tells me my one year old phone is sooo ooold, they don't even make aaaanthing for ttthat model anymore.


Financing
How could I not want a new car every 2.4 years (yes it's a true national average).
I get a rebate and the interest rate is soooo low.
Oh you want to lease a car now you can afford twice as much car.
GM forced me buy a new truck, yea it's their fault...


Mick

Damn Mick ---i couldn't have said it better!!!
Talked to the owner of the 2nd largest seller of Gmc's in louisiana today
and he showed me his "I GET TO STAY THIS ROUND " letter. written in single person tone but signed "SINCERELY, GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATION"--got him worried about next round of dealer cuts!! He was on a closed circuit meeting yesterday and new gm bigdogs say they will cut down from 1800 Caddy dealers to 800!!! jim

[ProTouring442]

You know, it really gets to me when people bash American car companies for building "crap," and how this is what caused their problems because people "remember." Give it a break, that ain't it because if it were, people wouldn't be buying anything. Remember those nice 1970's and 1980's Nissans (Datsuns) that practically rusted on the showroom floor? Or the Hondas that has 2.5 hp in a car just large enough you could get a 5 year old in them? Sit inside one of those 1970's or 1980's imports and feel the quality of a dashboard constructed of polystyrene!

Now, GM, Ford, and Chrysler have built some crap, but so have all of the import manufacturers! And look at the sales numbers!

1980
Citation: 811,540
Phoenix: 179,291

1981
Escort: 320,000

1982
Escort/EXP: 483,388
Cutlass Ciera: 281,451
Lynx: 119,000
Chevette: 169,000
Mustang: 130,000

1983
Thunderbird: 122,000
Escort: 315,370
Mustang: 120,873
Fairmont LTD: 155,758

Now some of these cars had problems for sure, but no more than any other vehicle. What they did have was a news media that seems to hate American cars! As an example, I remember one news guy pushing on the urethane bumper cover on a Cadillac and commenting on how you would "never see this sort of poor quality on an import." What?!? The bumper is urethane so it WILL flex! But of course, the public believes them.

My family and I have owned a myriad of domestic cars, many of which had hundreds of thousands of miles on them before they were sold or retired. In fact, some of my best cars were purchased at the 100,000 mile mark!

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[legend]

i think the problems stem from the lack of profit made on each car, allegedly GM make $40 on a full size SUV, so the volume required to make it worthwhile is huge, soon as people worry about affording the new model and decide to keep their car for longer it all crumbles

toyota/nissan try to make every worker feel vital to the company, and every nissan exec has to work at least 2 weeks on the line with the workers to gain empathy with the workforce.

however all the other manufacturers are in trouble too, as people are not buying new cars. but many companies don't have the huge pension/healthcare responsibilities that the US makers have