A Subframe Less Traveled

[tyoneal]

Hello:

As most of you know I bought Lateral-1 about a year ago. I've been having a get time with it, and have been considering where to take it next.

I have the 3-link in the Rear (Lateral Dynamics) it's a fabulous piece. The front end has not been changed out with a new subframe, AND I'm going to be Running Wheels that are like the Mini Lites of the, "Trans Am", Era.

This means NO AFX SPINDLES, as the wheels, like they were in the 60's, are designed to work with only the stock Spindles. That's ok as Wilwood makes a great 13 inch Brake Package that works with the stock spindles. They are 6 Pot.

I've got the Howe Tall Ball Joints,
Global west UCA'a and LCA's made to hold Coilover shocks.
Ats Chicane LM Coil Over Brackets
Penske 8300 Shocks
Hotchkiss Front Sway Bar
The Wheels, "PS Engineering", while having many of the "Old fashoned Traits of the earler ones, are 17 inch in Diameter.
Tires are, "Y" Rated 245-45-17's
Detroit Speed Subframe Connectors.

I want to see what kind of performance can be had out of a Stock Front Subframe, and I would like your thoughts and ideas of what I could do to increase it.

I know I have a "Bump Steer" issue inherant in the stock Spindles. I was going to address this with the kit Baer makes. I haven't heard of anyone using them, but Baer usually makes quality parts.

I was Going to Use the ATS Steering Box, or the Rack and Pinion made by unisteer, or one of the other makers of this type of steering. (Appleton, Flaming River Etc.)

What Can I do, or which way would you take the steering, or anything else you can think of, that is deficient in the front end.

I would appreciate any and all suggestions you have, other than, "Change the Front SubFrame".;-)

Also, since the Brakes will be changed, what Backing plates would you recommend so a Brake Cooling Hose could be attached to them?

I will also be changing out the steering column. I want Tilt and Telescopic functions with it. Any recommendations?

I appreciate your help.

Thanks,

Ty O'Neal

[MtotheIKEo]

why do the wheels not work with AFX spindles?

[wiedemab]

Originally Posted by MtotheIKEo

why do the wheels not work with AFX spindles?

My guess would be brake caliper clearance issues with a 17" wheel, but I'll let him verify.

[Silver69Camaro]

This is just my opinion, but I think it's silly to build a car around a wheel. You're giving up so much by choosing that rim...isn't there an alternative? You may regret your decision down the road...after all the money and time have been spent.

[deuce_454]

the ATS spindle works in a 17 inch wheel. you might have to run a wheelspacer and more backspacing on the wheel to to move the mounting flange outwards and clear the brakes....

if i were you id install a whole ATS Chicayne subframe and just get the spindles with the long 1/2-20 thread option and run a quality mashined spacer (frank can set you up with one from forgeline)

[tyoneal]

Originally Posted by MtotheIKEo

why do the wheels not work with AFX spindles?

Caliper sticks out to far to mount the wheels on the hub.

TY

[tyoneal]

Originally Posted by wiedemab

My guess would be brake caliper clearance issues with a 17" wheel, but I'll let him verify.

You are correct.

[tyoneal]

Originally Posted by Silver69Camaro

This is just my opinion, but I think it's silly to build a car around a wheel. You're giving up so much by choosing that rim...isn't there an alternative? You may regret your decision down the road...after all the money and time have been spent.

==============================

When I bought the car it already had:

Global West UCA and LCA (Supposedly corrects about half the Bumpster as well as Caster/Camber)
Hotchkis 1 1/8 Front Sway Bar
Stock Spindles

Needed when purchased

Needed a Steering Box or Rack and Pinion
Needed to buy Some Big Brakes When the car was Purchased
Probably could use the Baer Bumpsteer Kit anyway

--------------------------------------------------------
To Upgrade the Stock Front Subframe

Need to buy the Radial Mount Caliper Brakes
Global west lower control arms (To work with the Coil Over Shocks, would need anyway for Coil Over upgrade)
Shocks (Which I would have to buy anyway either way I went)
Steering Box OR Rack and Pinion (Which I needed when I bought the Car)
Baer Bumpsteer Kit

The actual Cost for using the original Subframe is not as bad as it would be if none of the upgrades of needs weren't already there when the car was purchased.

With this additional information change any of your thoughts?

Even if I went to a aftermarket Subframe, I would still have to buy many of these parts.

I think the gains of a new subframe would be weight (30-40 pounds)
Would not have to buy new LCA for the Coil Over Shocks

Other than that they are about even aren't they?

Plus I don't have to spend $4-$7,000 for a new front Subframe plus all the Labor involved changing it. In addition, the upgraded parts are a higher quality than what comes on the Custom Subframes.

I'm interested in your thoughts.

Thanks,

Ty

[deuce_454]

the vintage wheel works wheels will work with the ats spindles if you run a spacer to get the rear face of the wheel away from the brake calipers... that would mean ordering the front wheels with more backspacing, and the getting ATS spindles with longer studs....

to determine the required thickness of the spacer, buy the spindles (with long studs) and your rear wheels first! this will give you the opportunity to measure and test what thickness spacer is required to clear the brakes... and then order the spacers and front wheels accordingly...

this will not adversely affect ANY steering geometry! and is the cheapest and best way to get your car handling.... the lower price of the C5 based brakes almost pays for the ats spindles... and you can retain all of your front suspension as is... all you need then is to install a proper steering box and you are good to go

[tyoneal]

Originally Posted by deuce_454

the vintage wheel works wheels will work with the ats spindles if you run a spacer to get the rear face of the wheel away from the brake calipers... that would mean ordering the front wheels with more backspacing, and the getting ATS spindles with longer studs....

to determine the required thickness of the spacer, buy the spindles (with long studs) and your rear wheels first! this will give you the opportunity to measure and test what thickness spacer is required to clear the brakes... and then order the spacers and front wheels accordingly...

this will not adversely affect ANY steering geometry! and is the cheapest and best way to get your car handling.... the lower price of the C5 based brakes almost pays for the ats spindles... and you can retain all of your front suspension as is... all you need then is to install a proper steering box and you are good to go

=================================
Thanks a lot for the information. That does sound like a decent way of solving the issue.

Regards,

Ty O'Neal