protouring mopar options? lets talk - Lateral-g Forums

Majik16106 · #1 06-22-2005, 06:48 AM

ok, I'm posting this in hopes it becomes an on going discussion thread, hopefully spawning ford/gm counterparts, but my interest is in mopar, thus this should be the first, also, since it is the first, ill go ahead and start talking to people get the idea. Basically just some info on common motors, pro's and con's in pro touring cars versus just drag racing cars. So here is what I gather on mopars given the following.

Pro touring cars going to be street driven, need an overdrive for some gas mileage, bigger wheels, cool suspension, not a raced out interior, a/c and p/s. I.e, a decently comfortable street driven insanely fast car.

So on mopars, ill lay out the two motor options as i see it, and then conclude in the bottom, suggestions, criticism, whatever.. im open.

Small- Blocks. I like the non magnum motors, the 340 is pretty nice, the 360 to me is the motor to have. a 408 stroker is plenty capable of being a pump gas naturaly aspirated 500hp motor, albiet with lots of porting. so for this case, lets focus on the 360.

Big blocks- 383 and 400, pretty cool, 440 is easy, and the hemi is pretty badass given your wallet is real deep, and since gigantic cubic inches and mopars short stroke are cheaply used in a 440, we'll go with that,especially since it 1) weighs less than a hemi (protouring plus) and 2) a 496+ ci forged stroker bottom end costs 1300 bucks.

So lets put them in a car, for this example, a 70's ebody, coil over tubular front (plenty of header clearance) lowered on some nice 17's, the keisler tko600 5speed with a .62 overdrive, so given gear, a 6500rpm shift point (easy for both motors) gives you 180ish mph.

The argument- The 360 is lighter, and i guess it would rev easier, steve vukovich is a fan obviously, his isky blown 408ci makes 600+ hp. However,if we are talking about a 40 mph roll on a major freeway, trying to take on a decently powered newer turbo car (supra/300zx) what would we rather have, good mid-top end right? well, all the mopar guys i talk too say they'd rather have the 440, stroked or not. They all say its worth the weight penalty, mopars arent anything without a big block seems to be the attitude. so given that, what about the 440, could go forged .030 over 440 with blower or no? 496 same price, blower or no? stock 360 high comp, blown 360?

Basically, what would you guys use and why? I like the idea of something like a twin turbo 366, but thats just me, what would you do if you had to take that e-body, and out run a modded viper on the interstate to 145mph.. what would you use to bury 100mph as quickly as possible? yet still retain some turning ability, would the big block kill that? just throwing ideas out...

black2002ls · #2 06-22-2005, 09:32 AM

i am a turbo fan myself. i would probably go with a TT and fuel injected set up. if done right, you could eliminate turbo lag. its all in the sizing of the housings. of course, since there probably isn't a commercially available TT set up for the old big body mopars and their motors, so you will have to take into consideration all of the fabrication having to take place. you will need the headers, and all of the intake piping. definately not what you would consider a budget project. for a decent set up, with the custom headers and all, if you had to farm out the work, i'd say in the neighborhood of 4 or 5k. but it would definately follow suit with the more modernized aspects of the hobby. as would a centrifical (sp) blower, such as a novi2000. then there is always the bang for the buck aspect of nitrous. The best starting point is a good strong motor. fully built bottom end, to support anything that would be thrown at it. then you would need to consider the flow properties in relation to the induction package, being blown, or nitrous injecter, or simply N/A......these are just some ramblings and thoughts. food for thought.

Hooligan · #3 06-22-2005, 06:33 PM

I've got a 69 Roadrunner thats going to get a pro-touring treatment.

Im going to use a 440 based engine because I have it

and cant afford a hemi

or to build a viper engine

. And a super charger as opposed to turbo's, less fabrication.

Majik16106 · #4 06-22-2005, 07:57 PM

i like the twin set up too, but the more i research and read, the more i like just screwing off the weight penalty and goin big, seems like everyone i talk with says go big, and as for affordable hemi.. have you checked out stage v? definatly an option, i think a lot of pro-touring, even if people dont want to admit it, is look, more modern, more aggressive, and in mopar world.. nothing says " stay away" like HEMI

70Dustpan · #5 06-23-2005, 01:37 AM

For a Big Block I would go with a well build 10 to 1 400 B Block with Edelbrock heads and Edelbrock's Pro-Flo EFI system. A big bore short stroke motor and with the right cam 500 HP and 6500 RPM isn't that hard to get. And still very street friendly. With a Keisler 5 spd over-drive, 3.55 gears and 500 HP 150+ MPH in a E Body is doable. A coilover K Frame set-up and a IRS with coilovers out back.
For a small block a 400+ CID R-3 Block with W-9 Heads and a EFI system would be cool. This would take more fab work and more $$$ too.

But for me I would dig the 3800 Lbs E Body and stick it in a 3000 lbs A Body.

**clill** · #6 06-23-2005, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by black2002ls

i am a turbo fan myself. i would probably go with a TT and fuel injected set up. if done right, you could eliminate turbo lag. its all in the sizing of the housings. of course, since there probably isn't a commercially available TT set up for the old big body mopars and their motors, so you will have to take into consideration all of the fabrication having to take place. you will need the headers, and all of the intake piping. definately not what you would consider a budget project. for a decent set up, with the custom headers and all, if you had to farm out the work, i'd say in the neighborhood of 4 or 5k. but it would definately follow suit with the more modernized aspects of the hobby.

.....I gotta find this guy that can fab me up a fuel injected twin turbo setup for 4-5K...... Kurt, are you reading this ?

**camcojb** · #7 06-23-2005, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clill

.....I gotta find this guy that can fab me up a fuel injected twin turbo setup for 4-5K...... Kurt, are you reading this ?

I paid $1800 just for the headers!

Jody

MrAngry · #8 06-23-2005, 08:08 AM

I just posted some pics of my 1968 Charger in the new guy/intro. section. Here are my thoughts as my car is set up to be a driver with a pro-touring style - and I drive it a lot. I have a 440, 906 w/heads .030 over w/ 10.1 comp., stainless valves, forged pistons, dual plane intake, Holley 850DP, Crane HI-6 digital ignition system with MOPAR performance distributor, headman headers to a full 3" exhaust and some other nic nacs.

I think that bang for the buck 440 is the way to go. First off, the torque. I put out about 550lb/ft. and I can tell you it is an absolute riot. My tranny is a 727 with a Cheetah SCS turbo action shifter w/ reverse valve body coupled to a Gear Vendors OD unit. I can run at 85mph all day long pushing 3000rpms. By far the best mod. that can be made to a old car. I looked into Kiesler and decided against them due to the customer service horror stories that I'd heard. Without the GV engauged my final drive ratio is 3:55 - with it I drop to a 2:76 - to me, this is the ideal combo for the street.

If you are looking at speeds upwards of 140 I can tell you that will run into a problem - aerodynamics. For example - my Charger has a grill the size of a barn door and the resessed rear window causes a lot of drag. This may limit you somewhat. As for the motor - I have plans of pulling the engine next year to drop my compression so I can a pro-charger supercharger kit. Right now I can pretty much pull with anything from 40mph to 110mph. My goal is to change that to be able to run from 85-140 while make in the neighbood of about 700-750hp.

Also what car do you want to use - if I were making another car to set up for the track I would probably go with a Dart or 1st gen Barracuda - they are smaller and can be made to handle better then the larger B-bodies. Plus they are lighter and may be more receptive a turbo charged small block set-up. In the end it all comes down money. Hopefully by mid-july I will have my BAER Brakes installed as well as my Hotchkis sways bars and tubular upper control arms. If you car is lowered you will most likely need these if you are running torsion bars. Don't know if this helps at all - but I hope so.

Cheers-

Majik16106 · #9 06-23-2005, 06:24 PM

i only chose the e-body as an example because i felt it was in the middle of the mopar field, not the smaller a body, while not being the bigger charger/ roadrunner. thats all. also, keep in mind, i started this as a general discussion thread, ill start a chevy and ford thread later if this goes well. i appreciate the insight from mr. angry, any real world experience, please share, even if it doesnt seem important, u never know what might spark interest or make a difference to someone reading this thread later. Personal example..

I was planning on using a kiesler 5 speed, then i read one small comment on a forums about awful service, so.. it got my attention, and then i saw more and more, and just today, i had a GREAT conversation with Passon, and its half the price, plus i could spend another g, get the gear vendors, go overdrive, save weight with an all aluminum 4 speed housing, fab up a hyd clutch set up, and still get the o/d. or just use thier o/d 4 speed like they used in the hammer, .73 4th gear. I like forced induction, always have, out of boost your running a very solid low compression motor, using less gas i may add, and for anyone who has stepped into a supercharger pushing over 8psi, or a solid built turbo car, it is truely awesome, plus it helps idle with a big cam, etc etc..

originally i wanted a TT set up, and i still like it, but to be honest, ive been doing a lot of 440 research, full forged stroker bottom end for 1300? the guy at 440source say they run em to 8k in drag racing, 496ci that can do 6500 all day... then 8:1 comp and procharger.. stephen durr has got it.. insane..

black2002ls · #10 06-23-2005, 07:53 PM

i was referring mainly to the fab work on the turbo setup its self with the headers and the piping. depending on how you go about your intercooler, and turbos effects the overall cost. i've seen some pretty nice intercoolers, and all they consisted of were modified units from a dodge diesel pick up. 1800 for the headers. say 1200 for each turbo there is 4200. that leaves 800 for an IC and the piping....i guess i under cut a bit. you could pick up a spearco core for about a grand. and then all of the piping so in the neighbor hood of 6k ...not too far off. but like i said, not for a budget minded build.