Subframe Market Saturation...or is there room?

[cpederslie]

I posted this over on the PT board as well. I know that some of you frequent both boards, but figured there are others on here that aren't on the other board and wanted to make sure I get input from as many as possible.

http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36834

So here goes...A friend of mine a professional chassis/car builder proposed the prospect of building a few First Gen Camaro subframes, mostly because he's built one for his and has setup a jig to do others for friends/future projects what have ya. They would basically be OEM replacements very much like what Wayne Due was starting to turn out before closing up. Mount up your DSE or GW hardware, 670 Steering box, AFX spindles, etc. and go from there. He was thinking he could make and sell enough to put some money back into his project to get it to completion.

Since this is a very large forum with huge amounts of people connected to all facets of the sport/industry I pose the question to you...is there still room in the market for yet another first gen subframe? Especially if its of the caliber/quality of a Wayne Due but made by an individual that doesn't have the publicity or notarity?

His initial figures he believes that he'd need to sell a bare subframe in the $3K range. To me that doesn't seem to out of the park...but is it? If in the market what can you justify as a reasonable price for a bare sub that you can then add whatever components you want?

I certainly hope I get some good feedback and not bashed with this. Thanks in advance for any inputs you are willing to share.

Initial replies prompted further questions:

If bumpsteer with a front steer rack is an issue, and from what I have heard there is some issues, what is the benefit with the rack versus a quick ratio stock type steering box setup?

If larger front wheel/tire is desired, what is the "target" width/tire size? If the clip allows you to run a 8 1/2 to 9 1/2 inch wheel (stock C5 width wheel) does that approach what is desired or bigger yet?

No one has mentioned motor/tranny combinations which seems to run the full spectrum as far as what people want vs. what clips are setup up for. If the clip was setup with factory type motor mount holes to allow for stock tower type motor mounts to be bolted in in any configuration from SB, BB to Pontiac or to allow the user to make their own?

Is there anything else that should be considered?

Again, thanks for the respectful replies and inputs.

Chad

[68protouring454]

bump steer has nothing really do to with a rack or steering box, a proper design will negate any ill effects from bad geometry, also using professional susp software to solidify design.
why doesn't the guy come on here and ask these questions? nothing worse then 2nd hand info, and if he needs these questions answered he might want to think twice about producing subframes

[awr68]

I think there is room for a sf that takes stock replacement tubular control arms. I wish I could have gotten one of WD's last frames that takes DSE parts..too late now though!

3k sounds a little pricy for a bare frame...I beieve Wayne was selling his in the 2k range. Wil he be TIG welding the frames...I think it's expected at this price.

He should look into doing a front steer rack and splined sway bar.

Good luck with what ever you decide!!

[cpederslie]

Originally Posted by 68protouring454

bump steer has nothing really do to with a rack or steering box, a proper design will negate any ill effects from bad geometry, also using professional susp software to solidify design.
why doesn't the guy come on here and ask these questions? nothing worse then 2nd hand info, and if he needs these questions answered he might want to think twice about producing subframes

First, I'm trying to understand more so I can talk with him intelligently about the questions I've posed and what the markets hot points would be. That's why i'm on here asking questions, not him. Plus he's extremely busy to the point where his PC time is very limited. His understanding of suspension and chassis setup far exceeds mine, thus my query.

If he was to try and enter the market, even in a limited production capacity, it would have to be something that is in line with expectations of potential consumers. That is my ultimate goal with my inquiry is to provide him some of those hotpoints and or help steer him in the direction that would make for a viable option to people.