Quote of the month

[slow4dr]

Taken from the May 2005 Hot Rod page 64.

"We did pretty good with blower cars for some time and I was in denial for a while, but we had a customer come in one day who really wanted turbos." "We set out to develop a turbo program, and after just one trip to the track, I was done designing supercharger systems completely"

"Jason Heffner of Heffner's Performance"

:yes:

[camcojb]

Absolutely, turbos are THE way to go.

Jody

[XcYZ]

I read that article too, and with only 3 ~ 4 psi more than what they were runnng with a Pro-Charger, they picked 300 RWHP.

[slow4dr]

I also liked that they are going after the fastest IRS record currently held by the MSP Supra @ 7.90.

:eek:

[camcojb]

You know I have a Lightning also. There is a big push now to replace the roots blowers with turbos. I am considering it myself, only hesitation being how tough it will be to get through smog.

There's a couple guys who have theirs up and in the middle of tuning, but initial numbers show gains of over 100 rwhp at the same boost, and this is compared to the race screw blowers not the stock Eaton units that come on the trucks stock. Plus the biggest drawback for me is that at highly modded levels the trucks need a full exhaust, which is very loud with the length they use (side exit). The turbo would eliminate that issue also with it's natural "muffler" tendencies.

Yes, I am thinking of it for mine as I already have a fully built engine, ported heads, bigger cams, KB screw blower, etc.

Jody

[slow4dr]

I would love to help out any way I can, turbo selection, or to help get past the smog Nazi's. After all Gale does have a street legal Dakota with a 800HP diesel in it. ;)

[camcojb]

I would love to help out any way I can, turbo selection, or to help get past the smog Nazi's. After all Gale does have a street legal Dakota with a 800HP diesel in it. ;)

We may have to talk in a bit! :unibrow: I'd love to do it. I do my own tuning on the truck, and I know I can pass the tailpipe portion. The correct turbo would be awesome.

Jody

[slow4dr]

What is the most HP anyone has made with a factory block?

[camcojb]

What is the most HP anyone has made with a factory block?

There's been a few over 800 rwhp. I think the block will take more than that, the limit being getting the truck to hook. I know a few of these guys run nitrous as well and are making 900 to nearly 1000 rwtq with the 331 cid engine.

They all seem to use the factory crank which is supposed to be good for 1200+ HP. I also have Crower billet max-lite rods, custom CP blower pistons with Swain Tech coating, etc. Mine is made for big power but I'm at about 600 rwhp currently on 91 octane. That is with 100% stock exhaust due to noise and that this is a daily driver not a race car. I am installing a full exhaust today just to dyno and figure out how much I'm giving up power and torque wise. Then if it's significant like I think it is I'll try to quiet the exhaust.

I'm at 20 psi (street) with the KB blower.

Jody

[jonny51]

Jody or Jason,what is the deal with smog,is it the visual part?I can't see the roots blower running any cleaner than the turbos.Then again what do I know. :_paranoid

[camcojb]

It's not a tailpipe issue Jonny. It's California's fixation with not allowing any visual mods either without an exemption order number on the part or a trip to a referee. I think if it passes at the pipe the hood doesn't even get opened, after all we are only concerned with the pollutants, right? :rolleyes:

For example, you cannot move the location of the cats, or their number. My truck comes with 4 cats and to keep them in their factory location will be virtually impossible with a single turbo. If I re-locate them at all, even though I keep all of them it is illegal. That plus a turbo sitting where a blower came from the factory will cause "issues" with the visual portion. There may be a way around it hopefully. I have NO problem keeping all the smog equipment intact and functioning. Just give me a bit of leeway to package the parts.

Jody

[jonny51]

Yeah that is what I thought.That has to be one of the biggest BS law's out there(well maybe not).Even if you improve emmisions its still illegal if it does not pass visual. :willy:

[slow4dr]

There's been a few over 800 rwhp. I think the block will take more than that, the limit being getting the truck to hook. I know a few of these guys run nitrous as well and are making 900 to nearly 1000 rwtq with the 331 cid engine.

They all seem to use the factory crank which is supposed to be good for 1200+ HP. I also have Crower billet max-lite rods, custom CP blower pistons with Swain Tech coating, etc. Mine is made for big power but I'm at about 600 rwhp currently on 91 octane. That is with 100% stock exhaust due to noise and that this is a daily driver not a race car. I am installing a full exhaust today just to dyno and figure out how much I'm giving up power and torque wise. Then if it's significant like I think it is I'll try to quiet the exhaust.

I'm at 20 psi (street) with the KB blower.

Jody

Maybe we should take bets on how much you will gain by changing the exhaust. :) It is good to hear the block is that strong. I think a hybrid GT42R would be suffice for 1000RWHP and full spool by 3000 rpm. :unibrow:



It's not a tailpipe issue Jonny. It's California's fixation with not allowing any visual mods either without an exemption order number on the part or a trip to a referee. I think if it passes at the pipe the hood doesn't even get opened, after all we are only concerned with the pollutants, right? :rolleyes:

For example, you cannot move the location of the cats, or their number. My truck comes with 4 cats and to keep them in their factory location will be virtually impossible with a single turbo. If I re-locate them at all, even though I keep all of them it is illegal. That plus a turbo sitting where a blower came from the factory will cause "issues" with the visual portion. There may be a way around it hopefully. I have NO problem keeping all the smog equipment intact and functioning. Just give me a bit of leeway to package the parts.
Jody


Hopefully Arnie will be able to influence some changes.

[camcojb]

Yeah that is what I thought.That has to be one of the biggest BS law out there.Even if you improve emmisions its still illegal if it does not pass visual. :willy:


Yep,

I remember in the early 80's Weber carbs came out with legal replacement carbs for the small cars and mini trucks. They wanted a California EO# so during testing it was found that they improved the emissions too much. They would not pass them! :eek: Seems you have to be a certain % either way (as compared to the factory carbs), and they were too clean at the tailpipe. There should be NO LIMIT on improving emissions period. Whatever pinhead came up with that restriction was a moron.

So Weber had to "dirty" up the carbs to pass. Absolutely mind-boggling how the bureaucrats can screw this smog deal up so bad.

Jody

[jonny51]

Yeah, it just goes to show you it's not all about a clean enviroment.I love how they blame chainsaw's,lawnmowers,weedwackers,dirt bikes,etc,etc for the smog problem.I think(know) its a bit deeper than that.Oh well I guess were stuck building the best detroit had to offer :D

[XcYZ]

I wish I could find it, but somewhere I had read about the pollution that the Space Shuttle dumps in the atmosphere on launch, and it was absolute insane amount.

[jonny51]

Yep its true,the shuttle does tons of damage to the enviroment.Not to mention what a forrest fire does.Sorry kinda getting off topic.

[BC69]

Smog? Whats smog? :rolleyes: Just bring it to CT...we dont even have inspections. Well I think we do techincally, but after a 3 year break it will be another 5 before the get it right and actually do inspections!

Tim

[jonny51]

Yeah,but then you have to live in CT :D

[slow4dr]

Yeah,but then you have to live in CT :D


ROTFLMAO :lolhit:

[Blown353]

Jody, I hate to say it, but rear-mount turbo, or better worded, "post-cat" turbos. You can put anything you want AFTER the cats here in CA, but nothing before. Headers and some hi-flow cats would probably work pretty darn well, just size the exhaust housings to work with the lower temperature and decreased volume of the exhaust at that point in the system. It wouldn't be as efficient as just after the exhaust ports, but I bet it would still work well enough to make more HP than the supercharger.

The only thing I am unsure on would be removing the supercharger, I don't know how that would fly. My guess is that it would NOT pass visual. I suppose you could "hollow" it out by removing the rotors and use it for a plenum box, I bet that would fly!

Another option to consider to get rid of the supercharger-- swap in a later model engine without an SC, that way based on the CARB laws you have to meet the smog requirements (sniffer and visual) of the NEWER engine. That way there is no Supercharger in the loop, and you could still do the post-cat turbos and pass with flying colors if the sniffer checks out OK. That's not a good option though as you have that low mileage built engine in the truck now.

I also hate California's "visual" testing. If it passes at the sniffer, what's the difference what it looks like under the hood? The emissions are what matters! That was the case with my Turbo Trans Am, in my "modded" form it would pass the sniffer (barely) but wouldn't pass visual. The only thing that should be visually inspected is the PCV system (since it's a potential emissions source) but that should be it!

Jody, another option would be to buy a small piece of property up in the foothills where there are no smog test requirements and register the truck there. Several of my friends do that. You'll still be in big trouble though if you get pulled over by a cop or get trapped in a mobile smog test, as they could impound the car on the spot for emissions tampering. Just because the county you live in doesn't have biannual smog test requirements does not mean you can remove/alter the original equipment.

[slow4dr]

Jody,

There are a few brand new Garrett GT35R's collecting dust upstairs in the Race Shop that would work very well in a twin capacity. They already have the big 1.0 A/R on the turbine side and the .70 on the compressor.

:yes:

[camcojb]

Jody,

There are a few brand new Garrett GT35R's collecting dust upstairs in the Race Shop that would work very well in a twin capacity. They already have the big 1.0 A/R on the turbine side and the .70 on the compressor.

:yes:


Ah crap! :willy: Now my brain is really spinning! :unibrow:

Jody

[race-rodz]

ok.... all this turbo talk has me wondering how much damage would be done to turbos sitting out in the wind/rain/road debris? i seriously thought about a TT set up on my lil project http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=1120

but once again this would be way outa my poor white boy budget with out a federal grant or sponsorship

[slow4dr]

ok.... all this turbo talk has me wondering how much damage would be done to turbos sitting out in the wind/rain/road debris? i seriously thought about a TT set up on my lil project http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=1120

but once again this would be way outa my poor white boy budget with out a federal grant or sponsorship

Wind won't effect the turbo other than having superior heat dissipation. A good air filter will ensure road debris doesn't get sucked into the impeller.

The turbine housing operates at fairly high temperatures so if they were to cool off to quickly they would be prone to cracking.

Give me a call if you have any questions.