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Roger Poirier
12-12-2006, 07:31 PM
Finally had some photos taken of my 1969 GTO Judge - Pro Touring Style. Damn, these cars are a lot of work. I hope you like them.... Almost 12 years of my life off and on.

R.P.

the camtender
12-12-2006, 07:46 PM
Sweeeeeet,very nicely done :hail:
Thanks for sharing.
Jerry

4mm
12-12-2006, 07:48 PM
My favorite color for all A-body cars. It looks perfect :thumbsup:

3kidsnotime
12-12-2006, 07:53 PM
That car is perfect in all ways, a huge thanks for the shots... Steven take a look this is pure ink.... :cheering:

camcojb
12-12-2006, 07:54 PM
love that car Roger, It was great meeting you at Woodward.


Jody

RussMS
12-12-2006, 08:08 PM
Roger:

That is one of the finest GTO Judges ever. I can only hope to make my Mustang look 1/4 that good. Awesome car :thumbsup:

Roger Poirier
12-12-2006, 08:09 PM
It was great meeting you at Woodward.

Jody

Same here Jody. I have since checked out your web site. Boy, you have it bad! :lol: That's what makes it a horse race... If we were all the same, life would be boring. This is a fantastic hobby!

mazspeed
12-12-2006, 08:11 PM
Beautiful and wicked looking. :thumbsup:

Rybar
12-12-2006, 08:13 PM
My God is that thing nice! :hail: Wow, wish I had seen some pics of it before. Got any engine or interior shots? :thumbsup:

BretB
12-12-2006, 08:15 PM
Looks awesome. One of the best looking muscle cars of all time in my opinion.

radrambler
12-12-2006, 08:16 PM
thats one
:hail: beautiful GOAT...

NICE JOB :bow:

RADRAMBLER

Roger Poirier
12-12-2006, 08:22 PM
Roger:

That is one of the finest GTO Judges ever. I can only hope to make my Mustang look 1/4 that good. Awesome car :thumbsup:

Its all in the details. Not money but a labor of love. Anyone can do it, all it takes is time.

R.P.

awr68
12-12-2006, 08:27 PM
WOW, now that's clean!!! :thumbsup:

yell01
12-12-2006, 08:29 PM
Absolutely gorgeous. I love the black with red interior. :thumbsup:

Roger Poirier
12-12-2006, 08:35 PM
My God is that thing nice! :hail: Wow, wish I had seen some pics of it before. Got any engine or interior shots? :thumbsup:

I have plenty of build pics. It is finished shots that took me almost a year to have made. I have gone from 0 to aprox. 100 of these type of photo's. A friend of mine shot these with an old fashioned non digital camera and it happened to be mine. I just could not operate the camara as well as he could. Go fiqure... :lol:


Bye the way, these photos haven't been touched up yet. Notice the green tape on some of them. They are spots of the car that still needed to be buffed out better.

R.P.

XcYZ
12-12-2006, 08:44 PM
I have plenty of build pics. It is finished shots that took me almost a year to have made. I have gone from 0 to aprox. 100 of these type of photo's.

Are you thinking what I'm thinking? :unibrow:

Awesome car, Roger. I'm glad I got to see it in person at Woodward a few months ago. :thumbsup:

rwhite692
12-12-2006, 08:49 PM
Great looking car, Roger, love that interior.:thumbsup:

Roger Poirier
12-12-2006, 08:57 PM
Are you thinking what I'm thinking? :unibrow:

Awesome car, Roger. I'm glad I got to see it in person at Woodward a few months ago. :thumbsup:

Same here young man, and to answer your question yes! I think....

R.P.

Datsbad
12-12-2006, 09:01 PM
Roger , You offically have the baddest GTO I have ever seen .
I love it !!!

Steve1968LS2
12-12-2006, 09:11 PM
I will give you a full page in Hometown.. :)

Make sure it's ok and that OWN the photos..

Whatcha think?

Oh, and sweet ride man.. very sweet..

BC69
12-12-2006, 09:13 PM
Goshhh you are such a whore! ;)


Beautiful one though!

Tim

Roger Poirier
12-12-2006, 09:18 PM
Roger , You offically have the baddest GTO I have ever seen .
I love it !!!

You crazy nut! It's all your fault. This whole thing got to this level by me checking in on your web site. I May even go to Goodguys in PA so i can get a tour of your place. You cost me many of hours and money.... :D

R.P.

Roger Poirier
12-12-2006, 09:19 PM
Goshhh you are such a whore! ;)


Beautiful one though!

Tim

Yeah, I have learned from Steve at PHR. :unibrow:

R.P.

Roger Poirier
12-12-2006, 09:34 PM
I will give you a full page in Hometown.. :)

Make sure it's ok and that OWN the photos..

Whatcha think?

Oh, and sweet ride man.. very sweet..

You know I give you a lot of SH_T. Surprised you asked... But it's all in a good way. What's it take to do a feature? I know, change the color from black to ___________. :lol:

R.P.

Datsbad
12-12-2006, 09:42 PM
You crazy nut! It's all your fault. This whole thing got to this level by me checking in on your web site. I May even go to Goodguys in PA so i can get a tour of your place. You cost be many of hours and money.... :D

R.P.

That would be fine , I will be in the new shop by then

BC69
12-12-2006, 09:56 PM
Yeah, I have learned from Steve at PHR.


:lol:

71Nova
12-12-2006, 11:17 PM
That is a truly beautiful car man!! Great Job!!

Bowtieracing
12-12-2006, 11:17 PM
Roger , You offically have the baddest GTO I have ever seen .
I love it !!!


Roger that!! :D

Hooligan
12-13-2006, 01:34 AM
thats one
:hail: beautiful GOAT...
RADRAMBLER

There's just something not right about that statment.:lol:

The only problem with that car is that it isnt mine;):hail::D

Alex396ss
12-13-2006, 02:51 AM
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Alex

ProTouring442
12-13-2006, 03:02 AM
Very nice! :hail: :hail: :hail:

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
'72 442 "Inamorata"
www.FQuick.com/ProTouring442

Payton King
12-13-2006, 05:27 AM
Can I tell you I just love that car! I know you have to be happy to finally get to enjoy all of your hard work.

PRRC
12-13-2006, 05:44 AM
Man, That is one very nice car.Great job.
Tim

Streetking
12-13-2006, 05:59 AM
Beautiful car, one of my all time favorites.

SW

ProdigyCustoms
12-13-2006, 06:01 AM
Well Roger, if you have to be a whore, might as well be a great looking whore! I LOVE it!!!!

jimhamptons
12-13-2006, 06:13 AM
Awesome Car!

Rob07002
12-13-2006, 06:41 AM
That thing is beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ummgawa
12-13-2006, 06:43 AM
A Whore that has Sex with a Goat. You and Bill Howell need to talk, LOL.

Your GTO is just a work of art, Roger, just beautiful. :bow:

Roger Poirier
12-13-2006, 09:50 AM
Well Roger, if you have to be a whore, might as well be a great looking whore! I LOVE it!!!!

Thanks Frank, coming from you that truly means a lot. You know I am a big fan of yours. :thumbsup:

R.P.

61Bubbletop
12-13-2006, 10:04 AM
Great looking car Roger...really sweet :thumbsup: It looked badass coming down Woodward....

tones2SS
12-13-2006, 10:10 AM
WOW!!!!!
She is BEAUTIFUL!!!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Smack_talker
12-13-2006, 11:22 AM
Beautiful and wicked looking. :thumbsup:

I agree.....your ride is one of my fav's. :thumbsup:Thanks for the car porn. :lol:

BretB
12-13-2006, 12:42 PM
Roger,
I have a question about the offset on your front wheels. Me and my brother are building '69 GTO now and the wheels we got are 18x8 and have a 4.5 in. offset and they are real close to the inner wheel lip. Looks like they might work. Just wondering what the offset was on your wheels? Awesome car by the way.
Bret

Roger Poirier
12-13-2006, 01:29 PM
Yes, 4.5 backspacing on front. Tires are 235.40.18, front end lowered 3" inches. No tire rubbing, as you know on 69 GTO's with the back of the front wheels, they will or can rub on the fenders.

Actually lowering the car helps eliminate that problem.

P.S. That's not dirt on the fender. That is the reflection of the pavement. :lol:

R.P.

oldzzy
12-13-2006, 02:16 PM
Awesome car Roger! It looks just as clean as the day i seen it at the detroit auto show!

Roger Poirier
12-13-2006, 02:57 PM
Where have you been oldzzy? What's new with your car? Any updates? How is the girlfriend?

R.P.

mark smith
12-13-2006, 03:08 PM
very nice

oldzzy
12-13-2006, 03:10 PM
Hey Roger just been hangin out here and there. I managed to get nothing done to the car this past summer ( work issues ), and shhhh... don't tell the wife but the girlfriend is good thnx! :lol:

Scotch
12-13-2006, 03:10 PM
You know I give you a lot of SH_T. Surprised you asked... But its all in a good way. What's it take to do a feature? I know, change the color from black to ___________. :lol:

R.P.


Or contact another Editor...

I love running black cars!

~SP~

Roger Poirier
12-13-2006, 03:14 PM
A Whore that has Sex with a Goat. You and Bill Howell need to talk, LOL.


Just wait to you get started on your GTO. Then you will see the light or is that hole? :lol:

R.P.

Roger Poirier
12-13-2006, 03:25 PM
Hey Roger just been hangin out here and there. I managed to get nothing done to the car this past summer ( work issues ), and shhhh... don't tell the wife but the girlfriend is good thnx! :lol:


LMAO, when I was writing that I wasn't sure if it was wife or girlfriend. Anyways I think you will keep her! :unibrow:

R.P.

Roger Poirier
12-13-2006, 03:51 PM
Or contact another Editor...

I love running black cars!

~SP~

And you are? Any thoughts without me going beyond being a whore? :rolleyes:

I have had a couple freelancers approach me for spring shoots. They then take the photos and tech to publishing houses to see who think it's worthy of a spread. That's my understanding anyways.

I really need to sit down with Bill Howell III and see how you get press.... :yes:

R.P.

Stuart Adams
12-13-2006, 04:10 PM
Very cool car. Awesome determination and it was definately worth the wait.

radrambler
12-13-2006, 04:22 PM
roger
you need to contact steven rupp.builder of "bad penny"...is tech editor at popular hotrodding...hes on here all the time....i would bet he would like to see those photos sent to him....

my opinion
radrambler



And you are? Any thoughts without me going beyond being a whore? :rolleyes:

I have had a couple freelancers approach me for spring shoots. They then take the photos and tech to publishing houses to see who think it's worthy of a spread. That's my understanding anyways.

I really need to sit down with Bill Howell III and see how you get press.... :yes:

R.P.

Ummgawa
12-13-2006, 05:46 PM
Just wait to you get started on your GTO. Then you will see the light or is that hole? :lol:

R.P.

I have the engine installed and am deciding on the wheel tire combo now. Orbit Orange with two looks, Shaker set up (Thanks Borodin) and the Ram Air set up. Waiting on the front fenders to paint and assembly. I love goats.

Bill Howell
12-13-2006, 05:57 PM
Goshhh you are such a whore! ;)


Beautiful one though!

Tim

Yeah, you goat whore you...... :rofl:
I can not believe you lowered yourself to such a thread.... :lol:

Seriously Roger, you have one of the nicest GTO's around, period. The history behind you and the car is such a great read. Enjoy the limelight buddy, you deserve it. :hail:

Sales@Dutchboys
12-13-2006, 05:59 PM
Car looks great, Very nice stance.

Roger Poirier
12-13-2006, 06:06 PM
Yeah, you goat whore you...... :rofl:
I can not believe you lowered yourself to such a thread.... :lol:

Seriously Roger, you have one of the nicest GTO's around, period. The history behind you and the car is such a great read. Enjoy the limelight buddy, you deserve it. :hail:

Thanks,

You are OK in my book William... :cool: I don't care what others say about you...

Roger

Roger Poirier
12-13-2006, 06:11 PM
I have the engine installed and am deciding on the wheel tire combo now. Orbit Orange with two looks, Shaker set up (Thanks Borodin) and the Ram Air set up. Waiting on the fron fenders to paint and assembly. I love goats.

On that ram air set up. Please check in with me. I modified the heck out of that system to make it look right on these type of cars and still be functional. I took all the vaccum and extras off and had them filled in with metal.

R.P.

Ummgawa
12-13-2006, 07:38 PM
Will do Roger...Driving a goat is like going home for me. Love em.

67Sally
12-13-2006, 07:41 PM
You already know that I love your car. Your build is one of the ones that inspires me on my project.
W.

Steve1968LS2
12-13-2006, 07:42 PM
You know I give you a lot of SH_T. Surprised you asked... But its all in a good way. What's it take to do a feature? I know, change the color from black to ___________. :lol:

R.P.

If you didn't give me **** I wouldn't think you liked me.. lol

Send me the pics and will show them to the boss.. I never know whats gonna float his boat these days. If he passes I will walk them over to the editor of High Performance Pontiac.

Either way a full page in Hometown is yours if you want it. Its the only kingdom I control.. so far :unibrow:

Roger Poirier
12-13-2006, 08:27 PM
If you didn't give me **** I wouldn't think you liked me.. lol

Either way a full page in Hometown is yours if you want it. Its the only kingdom I control.. so far :unibrow:

Should I take Bill Howell's suggestion, any press is good press?

Yeah, that would be great. There is a lot of history to this project. Email is?

Thanks, R.P.

jeff s
12-13-2006, 08:38 PM
Awesome car, saw it and talked to you at Autorama.

Roger Poirier
12-13-2006, 08:53 PM
Awesome car, saw it and talked to you at Autorama.

Yeah, but now it drives. I was so beat up from getting that car done in time for the show. My 15 minutes of fame has come and gone. Thanks for the remarks.

R.P.

Steve1968LS2
12-13-2006, 09:06 PM
Should I take Bill Howell's suggestion, any press is good press?

Yeah, that would be great. There is a lot of history to this project. Email is?

Thanks, R.P.

[email protected]

I can take big files there :)

Need a sweet engine shot as well.. send me what ya got.

Oh, and being in Hometown doesn't take you out of the running for a feature.. just ask Alcino about that..

Sweet car man.. very well done!

slck6t9
12-13-2006, 09:45 PM
Absolutely one of my favorite Goat's. A feature is a must. Steve is right, I was Hometown and it turned into a feature a few months later. You deserve it.

Scott

CHROMAHOLIC
12-14-2006, 04:30 AM
Congratulations, that has to be one of the best looking cars on the site, and the best part is it's not a Camaro.....

Speedster
12-14-2006, 05:09 AM
Roger -

The job you did on that GTO is nothing short of incredible !!
Man, everytime I see that I get wood...
Nicely done and the 68/69 body style is my favorite.

G-Body
12-14-2006, 05:36 AM
I have been a huge GTO fan since i was little first car was a 70 goat and i love your ride amazing, dont think you could build one any finer! this car has all the goods! hope it has a trailer hitch! might need a trailer for all the awards

Ummgawa
12-14-2006, 05:42 AM
Roger

for those of us that do not know, whats the history behind the Goat and the build? Was it your first car? I followed the thrash build to get it ready last year but....

Give us the goods man!!

TA219
12-14-2006, 07:04 AM
WOW :wow: Great looking car !

130fe
12-14-2006, 08:38 AM
Great finished product!!! :thumbsup:

Roger Poirier
12-14-2006, 10:22 AM
[email protected]

Sweet car man.. very well done!

Steve, I will give you credit for insuring about getting the stance right. You made an important post a while back on the STANCE of a car. I'm not positive it is perfect, but I think I am in the ballpark. The neat thing is it all works and drives like it's on rails.

R.P.

Ummgawa
12-14-2006, 10:33 AM
Every thing about your GTO screams Bad A$$!! Stance, motor, interior, Paint, excellent chrome, wheels tires.

It is just wicked man, a grand slam.

Rybar
12-14-2006, 12:00 PM
Steve, I will give you credit for insuring about getting the stance right. You made an important post a while back on the STANCE of a car. I'm not postive it is perfect, but I think I am in the ballpark. The neat thing is it all works and drives like it's on rails.

R.P.

I'll agree with that, STANCE does make or break a car in my opinion. As does wheel choice/tire size and offset. :yes:

I think you hit the nail on the head Roger. Once again, Killer GTO :hail:

Roger Poirier
12-14-2006, 02:47 PM
Roger

for those of us that do not know, whats the history behind the Goat and the build? Was it your first car? I followed the thrash build to get it ready last year but....

Give us the goods man!!

Over 30 years ago I bought my 69 GTO Judge when I turned sixteen. I recall seeing this exact car in 6th grade driving down my local side street where I lived in St. Clair Shores, MI. I fell in love with this particular 69 GTO and bought the car of my dreams a few years later.

The car has been completed in pro-touring style. It has today's suspension standards, an overdrive transmission, along with enhanced steering and braking. The goal of the vehicle has been to keep it reminiscent of the 60's muscle car era. Now you understand the chrome, and still have todays driving features and look to it.

In regards to the thrash build, that was just the final chapter. For those that don't know. I blew my back out putting a hospital bed in my dad's home in the mid 90's. Unfortunately since then I have had 3 back and 4 intestinal surgerys. I now walk with a cane.

It took me almost two years to learn how to walk again. In that time I gained weight, aprox 60lbs. Became a diabetic, 4 shots a day. I now have 80% usage of my kidneys. Then to top that off I ended up with a heart virus and only have 75% heart capacity. Now that one will slow you down.

The disabilities I can live with. It's the continious back pain that takes up all my energy. I do not wish that amount of pain on anyone, even if he was my worst enemy.

The GTO was my inspiration. I started the project just before I got hurt. Twelve years later I finally acomplished my goal.

Bring any doomsday people to my home. They will leave thinking today is the best day of my life. You always have to move forward.... Taking pity on yourself accomplishes nothing. It just happen to be a life long dream of mine to finish what I started.

Enough about my health. My old man once told me, "any day on earth is an excellnt day. Be greatfull and hope there is a tomorrow!"

I am with him on that!

R.P.

Roger Poirier
12-14-2006, 06:00 PM
Roger -

The job you did on that GTO is nothing short of incredible !!
Man, everytime I see that I get wood...
Nicely done and the 68/69 body style is my favorite.

I have news for you. If your car comes out half as good as the avatar pic, we are all in trouble. You will have set a new standard. From the engine and firewall shots it looks like you are well on you way. :thumbsup:

R.P.

Roger Poirier
12-14-2006, 06:08 PM
I have been a huge GTO fan since i was little first car was a 70 goat and i love your ride amazing, dont think you could build one any finer! this car has all the goods! hope it has a trailer hitch! might need a trailer for all the awards

Thanks for the comments. However, just so you know. The car won a major award at 06 Detroit Autorama. I did not even go pick up the trophy. Wife did though, since then I have tossed it in the grabage. It's not my cup of tea.

The real fun is meeting people and talking about car ideals, family and such....

R.P.

Roger Poirier
12-17-2006, 06:24 PM
If you didn't give me **** I wouldn't think you liked me.. lol

Send me the pics and will show them to the boss.. I never know whats gonna float his boat these days. If he passes I will walk them over to the editor of High Performance Pontiac.

Either way a full page in Hometown is yours if you want it. Its the only kingdom I control.. so far :unibrow:


Allright Steve let's see how good you really are. Work your mojo.... :willy: E-mail sent.

Thanks,

R.P.

Bandit Ls-1
12-18-2006, 01:49 AM
wow that a sick looking goat man! :thumbsup:

69MyWay
12-18-2006, 02:38 AM
I like everything about this car.

There are few cars I look at and don't get a little twinge inside that makes me want to change something. This is one of the few!

GREAT WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ProTouring442
12-18-2006, 03:18 AM
Bring any doomsday people to my home. They will leave thinking today is the best day of my life. You always have to move forward.... Taking pity on yourself accomplishes nothing. It just happen to be a life long dream of mine to finish what I started.

Enough about my health. My old man once told me, "any day on earth is an excellnt day. Be greatfull and hope there is a tomorrow!"

I am with him on that!

R.P.

This is all so true; I see it everyday with my wife, Kristy. As you may or may not know, my wife has multiple sclerosis. She has a few balance problems, weakness in her legs, uses a catheter, sometimes uses a cane or a wheelchair, and has a totally unpredictable energy level. Sometimes the silliest of things will wipe her energy out for the day. Still, we love life and our life together. We like to live by a line from the movie Tombstone; "there is no normal life Wyatt, there's just life, and you get on with it."

If MS takes something away, we take it back. We met on a motorcycle ride a little over six years ago. She even bought me a Harley Davidson Dyna Glide a few years back. Now however, she really can't ride any distance anymore. We aren't going to sit around a moan about it though, I'm selling the Harley and am going to buy some sort of cool little convertible to take its place.

Sometimes, MS even makes life better. We love to decorate the tree for Christmas, but all that leaning, bending, and stretching will take the wind right out of Kristy's sails. The solution has made life around the holidays much better. I came up with the idea of inviting over some friends of ours, another couple that we both really get along with. All yesterday afternoon we all listened to Christmas music, chatted, and decorated the house and tree. We had a blast! It sounds silly, but neither Kristy nor I probably would have thought of this idea without her having MS.

Our lives are full of other examples like these. That’s not to say that she doesn’t have her down moments or days, we call them “I have MS” days, but she won’t stay down for long. Like you said, any day on earth is a good one!

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
'72 442 "Inamorata"
www.FQuick.com/ProTouring442

Roger Poirier
12-18-2006, 07:15 PM
I like everything about this car.

There are few cars I look at and don't get a little twinge inside that makes me want to change something. This is one of the few!

GREAT WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since you own some of my favorite cars, glad to see we are on the same page. :thumbsup:

Roger Poirier
12-18-2006, 07:19 PM
This is all so true; I see it everyday with my wife, Kristy. As you may or may not know, my wife has multiple sclerosis. Still, we love life and our life together. We like to live by a line from the movie Tombstone; "there is no normal life Wyatt, there's just life, and you get on with it."

Like you said, any day on earth is a good one!

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
'72 442 "Inamorata"
www.FQuick.com/ProTouring442

Thanks for posting Bill.

That's the only way we know how to approch it. :)

R.P.

Roger Poirier
12-19-2006, 06:15 PM
Bill, Shiny side Up,

I checked out your build site. Wow, that's quite an ambitious project list!

All it takes is money and maybe ten years. :lol: Some day it will all come together..... :thumbsup:

R.P.

Efi69Cam
12-19-2006, 08:27 PM
:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

buickfunnycar.com
12-19-2006, 08:41 PM
That car is freaking bad ass...you'll nailed everything on that bad boy! :thumbsup:

Very,very,very sweet... :patriot:

ProTouring442
12-20-2006, 03:37 AM
Bill, Shiny side Up,

I checked out your build site. Wow, that's quite an ambitious project list!

All it takes is money and maybe ten years. :lol: Some day it will all come together..... :thumbsup:

R.P.


10years... hell, I've owned tha damned thing for 13! Ah well, sometime it will be done. :_paranoid

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
'72 442 "Inamorata"
www.FQuick.com/ProTouring442

Dodgenut64
12-20-2006, 04:50 AM
This GTO is very nice. Take care of her.

Roger Poirier
12-22-2006, 01:54 PM
Thanks everyone for your comments. I guess I did ok after all. :cool:

However, it has taken me more than one try to get it right. Look for a written post of my life long challenge in getting this car done properly, it has been given to Scott at Lateral-g.net and will be posted in Jan. 2007. A very funny read.

I also posted some pics of the GTO at www.performanceyears.com. I listed myself as a friend of the owner of the car. Received mixed reviews. Wheel and tire issues being the main reason for dislikes. Good news is that I had an old school Pontiac engine. So the members took it easy on me. :lol:

R.P.

GHOSTDANCER
12-22-2006, 11:50 PM
Beautiful car :hail:

Ummgawa
12-23-2006, 06:32 AM
Thanks everyone for your comments. I guess I did ok after all. :cool:

However, it has taken me more than one try to get it right. Look for a written post of my life long challenge in getting this car done properly, it has been given to Scott at Lateral-g.net and will be posted in Jan. 2007. A very funny read.

I also posted some pics of the GTO at www.performanceyears.com. I listed myself as a friend of the owner of the car. Received mixed reviews. Wheel and tire issues being the main reason for dislikes. Good news is that I had an old school Pontiac engine. So the members took it easy on me. :lol:

R.P.

I will never build a stock car again. I have always been a "Love em the way the General made em" guy until the past three years. Stocks are a bigger pain in the butt.