Force Feed ZZ502

[ccracin]

So here is my dilema, do I pro-charge my ZZ502 or TT charge it? Maybe some of you guys can weigh in. I am in the planning stages of a new project. I have spent the last 10 years involved in circle track racing. I am ready to get back on the street. The project is a 1968 Chevy C-10 street machine. I am currently designing a complete tube chassis with circle track inspired suspension. I guess that qualifies for G machine status. Anyway to the engine, I have a new ZZ502 and my plan is to force feed it with EFI. I am still torn as to how. I need to decide soon as I want to plan the chassis correctly. I have talked with ATI and Innovative and they have agreed that I should be able to make 1000+- at about 15-16 psi on pump gas and intercooled. The truck will allow a large intercooler. They however don't have alot to add about specific engine combinations, or least they did not in my preliminary conversations. What does everyone think? Frank at Prodigy, any ideas? Tom Nelson, I know you build great engines but any ideas for supplying me a TT setup. Anyone else that can add something would also be greatly appreciated. I have a desire to do as much myself as possible. I am designing the chassis and other components with a 3D modeling package and want to see it through to completion.

Thanks,

Chad

[Blown353]

It's better to build an engine from the beginning with boost in mind rather than start with a naturally aspirated engine and try and convert it, as you usually end up throwing stuff away or making lots of compromises.

Several things really need changing for a boosted application to be the most reliable and get the most power:

SC or turbo specific cam grind
piston coatings & compression ratio
piston clearance (going a little bit more on the bore, say .0005" additional, for boost and increased combustion chamber temps & piston temps isn't a bad idea)
wider ring gaps
inconel exhaust valves
headwork (especially on the exhaust side but don't neglect the intakes)
head gasket selection (MLS is very good)

Also, the ZZ502 heads aren't too hot especially on the exhaust side, I'd recommend something like Canfields or AFR's.

[camcojb]

Yeah, I am not sure you can get to 1000 HP with those heads, especially at that boost level.


Jody

[ccracin]

Thanks for the replies so far. Blown353, I really couldn't agree with you more on your comments. The 1000 is just a number for kicks. It is cool to say it makes 1000. In all actuality I think @ 12 -14psi on that motor the power level will be sick for a pick-up. I think we'll need stock in BFG. The thing is we have the 502. It has a forged crank, pistons and steel rods. The heads will make great torque off boost and I agree that they will be limited on the top end. The static CR is 9.6:1, my thought was putting a bit thicker MLS head gasket on to lower the CR and increase the valve to piston clearance a bit. Although I havn't checked it to start so I'm not exactly sure that part is needed. Call it extra insurance. The main intent is to make as much consistant power as possible while still just hitting the key and going. I traded some e-mails with Shay Campbell and Jim who bought his Camaro and they said the 502 lived and it made I think 800 on pump gas. I may be mis- quoting here. Shay said he did nothing but change rocker arms. I'm thinking the head gaskets may help a bit. So now that I am done rambling, back to a question. What do you think this engine capable of and what components would you suggest Pro-Charger, TT etc. Thanks again for the help.

[deuce_454]

if you plan to yank the heads id swap the pistons right away, get a set of flat tops to bring the compression down to about 8:1. and if you are any good with that 3d cad you are much better off going with the TT setup as the big difference between the two with regards to difficulty is designing and fabrication the tubing and headers for the turbos. , secondly, and i really think this is a big point, your engine will deliver 150-200 more shaft horsepower with a properly sized turbo setup than with a crank driven supercharger at the SAME boost level, simply because of the SHP needed to drive the SC. also boost is adjustable... so tour wife or 17 year old son isnt handed the keys to an 1100 hp pickup with no rear grip..

[cutlasskid]

i also think tt set up is the best way, i have not had any luck with procharger. tt due have alot of heat issues but having the adjustable boost is very nice.

[Gordz32]

although chevy has forged internals, I'd be a little scared with 1000hp and possibly grenading the motor. I'm a chevy guy forever but I wouldn't trust the (stock) balancing, internals at 1000hp. just my 2 cents :_paranoid

[ccracin]

At this power level, I can't help but be a bit concerned. Although, I don't think balance is an issue. That is concern with RPM not power level. I still will not spin this engine past 6000 with an upgraded valve train. As for the strength of the parts, I would definitely not use this engine as a base in a racing application. In this application the hardest this engine will be worked is on the dyno. If it survives that, I think it will survive on the street. Even with 295-305's on it, the fact that it is a pick-up says I will not be punishing the internals. I am considering adding inconel exhaust valves to add longevity. So, suffice it to say I am willing to take the risk. Let's hear some recommendations on parts. I am going to work on a concept for TT headers. When I make some progress I'll post for comments. Thanks for the feed back so far.

[ccracin]

Anybody home? I'm sure someone is out there at least willing to tell me I am full of crap. I'm of the mind I can learn from anything. The previous replies still have me thinking. I still need some specifics on parts. Thanks.

[Slow Ride]

I'm in your same boat. I want to add twin turbos to a 454bbc in my s-10 blazer and have been having a hard time finding useful info. I am probably on a much more limited budget than you, but I still want max power for my cash outlay. I am watching this thread closely.

[camcojb]

Anybody home? I'm sure someone is out there at least willing to tell me I am full of crap. I'm of the mind I can learn from anything. The previous replies still have me thinking. I still need some specifics on parts. Thanks.

Are you still planning on using a crate motor of some sort, or are you planning on building a purpose-built twin turbo engine?

Jody

[ccracin]

I'm in your same boat. I want to add twin turbos to a 454bbc in my s-10 blazer and have been having a hard time finding useful info. I am probably on a much more limited budget than you, but I still want max power for my cash outlay. I am watching this thread closely.

Slow Ride,
I really am on a limited budget as well. The way I am planning this project is to do as much as I can myself in many areas so that when I do have to pay someone else I don't have to go too cheap. We'll see what we can get going here. I know the knowledge is out there.

[ccracin]

Are you still planning on using a crate motor of some sort, or are you planning on building a purpose-built twin turbo engine?

Jody

Jody,

At this point I am planning on the crate ZZ502. I am not the type to completely disregard suggestions from those with experience however. The reason I am trying to stick with this route is because of my response to slow ride. I am on a budget as many of us are. If I can make this work, it may inspire people who would have otherwise not done anything because of cost to jump in. ATI said that theoretically the ZZ502 should be able to make 1000hp at 16psi on pump gas. I think that is a bit optomistic, but Shay did 800 with the same combo and zero modifications other than upgraded rockers. I was going to change the rockers even if I went NA. I figured change the head gaskets for a little less compression and more durability. Maybe change the exhaust valves for durability, but thats it. If I go too much further I am loosing site of the origianal goal in starting with a good crate engine. I'm just looking for some more suggestions on components, especially turbo setups. I'm sure Slow Ride would appreciate it as well.

Thanks,
Chad

[camcojb]

Jody,

At this point I am planning on the crate ZZ502. I am not the type to completely disregard suggestions from those with experience however. The reason I am trying to stick with this route is because of my response to slow ride. I am on a budget as many of us are. If I can make this work, it may inspire people who would have otherwise not done anything because of cost to jump in. ATI said that theoretically the ZZ502 should be able to make 1000hp at 16psi on pump gas. I think that is a bit optomistic, but Shay did 800 with the same combo and zero modifications other than upgraded rockers. I was going to change the rockers even if I went NA. I figured change the head gaskets for a little less compression and more durability. Maybe change the exhaust valves for durability, but thats it. If I go too much further I am loosing site of the origianal goal in starting with a good crate engine. I'm just looking for some more suggestions on components, especially turbo setups. I'm sure Slow Ride would appreciate it as well.

Thanks,
Chad

Well, ATI is confused. I don't think those heads will support 1000 HP, even forced induction. There are huge gains by getting rid of them with an aftermarket Canfield, AFR, etc. on blown motors. They're fine for what the crate motor was built for though.

I wish you luck with your project, should be fun. Thing is, I never put budget and twin turbo build in the same sentence. Unless you are a really good fabricator a twin turbo setup is by far the most expensive forced induction setup there is, by a fair amount. A Procharger is much easier and less expensive, and can still make big power.

Jody

[ccracin]

Well, ATI is confused. I don't think those heads will support 1000 HP, even forced induction. There are huge gains by getting rid of them with an aftermarket Canfield, AFR, etc. on blown motors. They're fine for what the crate motor was built for though.

I wish you luck with your project, should be fun. Thing is, I never put budget and twin turbo build in the same sentence. Unless you are a really good fabricator a twin turbo setup is by far the most expensive forced induction setup there is, by a fair amount. A Procharger is much easier and less expensive, and can still make big power.

Jody

Jody,

I absolutely agree that it would not be a problem with the AFR's for example. But I can't discount Shay's/Jim's Camaro. 800HP on Pump, 937 on race gas. I believe also the 937 was with less than 16psi. Wouldn't you think that says the heads are capable? I also agree about the budget and TT's. I would however be able to fabricate the TT setup in house. The component selection is where I am still learning. Any suggestions if I want to try. Maybe twin t-61's with an A/R of .70. Is that too small for 502cuin.? I'm trying to learn in general. If the budget goes up maybe a purpose built motor is in order, we'll see.

[ccracin]

Jody,

After a couple posts back and forth, I finally took a look at your website. Your posts are quite modest for the quality of your projects. Very nice. We are building this project for my dad who also has a 2003 HD F150. I've been chomping at the bit to get my hands on it. What were the spec's on your Arias 540? What do you think the heads on the ZZ502 are worth if I were to try to sell them. I may then be able to replace them with some AFR 315's. The other route that is possible, is a small block. I have a race prepped bowtie block. 4.060 Bore, Billet Splayed caps, Roller Cam Bearings, Bronze bushed lifter bores, Poilished and coated oil gallery, adjustable cam oiling, modified cooling between cylinders, etc. I would say a 3.75" crank, AFR cnc 220's, EFI and TT should be 1000 easy and dead reliable. But still more expensive even though I have the block. Anyway, enlighten me.

Chad

[camcojb]

Jody,

After a couple posts back and forth, I finally took a look at your website. Your posts are quite modest for the quality of your projects. Very nice. We are building this project for my dad who also has a 2003 HD F150. I've been chomping at the bit to get my hands on it. What were the spec's on your Arias 540? What do you think the heads on the ZZ502 are worth if I were to try to sell them. I may then be able to replace them with some AFR 315's. The other route that is possible, is a small block. I have a race prepped bowtie block. 4.060 Bore, Billet Splayed caps, Roller Cam Bearings, Bronze bushed lifter bores, Poilished and coated oil gallery, adjustable cam oiling, modified cooling between cylinders, etc. I would say a 3.75" crank, AFR cnc 220's, EFI and TT should be 1000 easy and dead reliable. But still more expensive even though I have the block. Anyway, enlighten me.

Chad

Thanks Chad. I love horsepower. :unibrow: I didn't know Shay used stock heads on his car. I do know a good friend of mine dyno's centrifugal cars all day long, and we've spoken about those exact crate heads, and how much he dislikes them for a high power build. They can be improved with some port work in the bowl and exhaust side, but he feels the money would be better spent on a better head.

An example on a naturally aspirated big block from another friend of mine picked up almost 100 HP by replacing the stock crate head with an out of the box AFR head.

I'm not saying they totally suck, but depending on your power goals they may not be the best way to go. A friend had them for a 482 ZL-1 engine he had me assemble for him, and after talking to others he sold them (brand new with port work) for $2K. They were fully ported though, and he was glad to get that out of them. He then turned around and for a couple hundred more bought the AFR's from Mike at http://www.lewisracingengines.com/pages/702073/index.htm

That small block you have sounds like a very good way to go. Easier to package in the car and 1000+ HP without an issue.

Jody

[Stuart Adams]

Chad, I have had a camaro with an injected ZZ 502 and I've driven the 540 Arias in question. There is no comparison between the two. My point is you may get 1000 hp from the ZZ502(somehow) but it won't last long. They get 6000hp on top fuel cars but they don't last long. Jody does like hp!!!

[ccracin]

Just to keep things straight, if I got 1000 reliably great. If I got 800 reliably great. The key is the most hp available RELIABLY. I want my dad to be able to hit the key, turn the A/C on, put it in gear and embarrass some vettes and such. Black marks at 50mph would also be great. I know, I know now the truth comes out. If he wants to go to a track day it will handle like no other pick-up. If he wants to go to the strip he will have a 10 second ride. If he wants to go have coffee he'll save travel time. Anyway, if I go Pro-charged or TT where do you think I should limit the boost on 93? I was thinking 12-14psi with head gaskets. Would this be reliable? Where do you believe the limit is for this engine? What pro-charger would you recommend? What turbo's might be applicable? I was thinking a sheet metal intake and either Accel dfi or BS3, any comments? I don't know if you saw the canvas in the intro section as well as some components I playing with, I'll post a couple pictures. The Camaro is my toy my Dad and I did 20 years ago when I was 15. I really appreciate the dialogue guys. By the way, any idea what a set of AFR 315's goes for these days?

[Speedster]

Chad -
A couple of questions regarding your max boost question - are you going to run an intercooler and/or water/alcohol injection ? They make quite a difference. If not, you can run higher boost (and save money) by running a blower carb on a good single plane intake versus a very expenseive sheet metal intake/EFI combo. From the tons of dyno pulls Tom Nelson did on a 540 Procharger EFI with intercooler, 15 psi on 91 octane is about the max to make power while staying safely away from detonation. You could go a little higher with 93 octane or water/alcohol injection, but you are pushing the gaskets very hard at that point. For sizing an F1 or F1R would be a good choice.

[ccracin]

Chad -
A couple of questions regarding your max boost question - are you going to run an intercooler and/or water/alcohol injection ? They make quite a difference. If not, you can run higher boost (and save money) by running a blower carb on a good single plane intake versus a very expenseive sheet metal intake/EFI combo. From the tons of dyno pulls Tom Nelson did on a 540 Procharger EFI with intercooler, 15 psi on 91 octane is about the max to make power while staying safely away from detonation. You could go a little higher with 93 octane or water/alcohol injection, but you are pushing the gaskets very hard at that point. For sizing an F1 or F1R would be a good choice.

Bruce,
Yes, I am planning on an intercooler. The truck front end will allow a fairly large one in my opinion. I am going to build a custom rad. support. I was thinking of a Ron Davis Rad/Intercooler setup, any comments? The sheet metal intake is for the wow factor, if the price factor goes too high it will get replaced with a more standard EFI manifold. I think 15 psi would be more than acceptable if it is reliable. That is the reason for the EFI, I don't want my Dad worrying about a carb tune up. I am also hoping not to have to run a cog drive, do you think it is needed at this level? If my calculations are right 15psi should be in the 900hp range taking into account power to drive the blower. What are your thoughts on the internals of this engine? I was planning a head gasket swap, my thought was cometics. Any comments? Thanks for the information.

Chad

[Blown353]

Just my opinion here on how to proceed spending your money: the engine will make way more power with *less* boost if you buy good heads and use a simple single plane EFI intake compared to running the stock heads and an expensive sheetmetal intake.

You'll probably come out the same either route in the money department, I strongly suggest you spend the money on the heads and just run a cheaper but still good EFI single plane-- it will make more power everywhere! The out of the box ZZ502 heads simply aren't very good pieces, the exhaust ports are the real choker on them. You can easily change the intake later. Do the heads first! A single plane can still look pretty trick if you run an elbow on top with a monoblade throttlebody. A monoblade is the preferred setup for a boosted application, the throttle response is noticeably improved compared to a 4-barrel style throttle body.

You can probably get away with a 12-rib belt if you run a GOOD tensioner (i.e. not the one Procharger provides.)

As far as headgaskets, MLS gaskets such as Cometics are an excellent option and are the only way to go on most engines, boosted or not-- but only if the block and head flatness and surface finishes meet the criteria for them to seal up properly. A good shop can easily provide these finishes if they know what they are doing and their surfacing equipment & cutters are in good shape.

[ccracin]

Again, I couldn't agree more. The sheetmetal intake will most probably be a creation of my own. If I go that route. I have a couple ideas I am modeling on the computer. A friend of mine is one of the best welders I have ever seen. The tig welding isn't an issue. I also have a friend that owns a commercial machine shop. The machining will not be an issue. To top it all off they are both car guys. I may use a converted tunnel ram lower intake with a sheetmetal top. Either way I will use a single throttle blade. I would love to consider the AFR's. What are they going for these days? I've seen their adds for about 3200. Anyone know of any better deals? If I could get 1700 or 1800 out of the heads I have, I would consider a swap since I'm going to have the heads off anyway. If not I can always do them down the road. Let me summarize, everyone seems to think that the zz502 short block with AFR heads, cometic gaskets, EFI, and an intercooled pro-charcher F1 will do 15psi and make 1000hp. Also be absolutely reliable. Yes or No? Any comments on the EFI? Accel,BS3,etc.

[camcojb]

Again, I couldn't agree more. The sheetmetal intake will most probably be a creation of my own. If I go that route. I have a couple ideas I am modeling on the computer. A friend of mine is one of the best welders I have ever seen. The tig welding isn't an issue. I also have a friend that owns a commercial machine shop. The machining will not be an issue. To top it all off they are both car guys. I may use a converted tunnel ram lower intake with a sheetmetal top. Either way I will use a single throttle blade. I would love to consider the AFR's. What are they going for these days? I've seen their adds for about 3200. Anyone know of any better deals? If I could get 1700 or 1800 out of the heads I have, I would consider a swap since I'm going to have the heads off anyway. If not I can always do them down the road. Let me summarize, everyone seems to think that the zz502 short block with AFR heads, cometic gaskets, EFI, and an intercooled pro-charcher F1 will do 15psi and make 1000hp. Also be absolutely reliable. Yes or No? Any comments on the EFI? Accel,BS3,etc.

Here's the monoblade setup Troy mentioned:
http://www.camcojb.com/zl1index/zl1motor3.jpg

Yes, your combo with those heads, correct cam and F1 intercooled should make 1000 HP at 15 psi. If it's built right it should be very reliable.

My 540 got 19 mpg on the freeway, and did it more than once. I drove it all the time. I used a FAST system on mine but BigStuff3 and Accel Gen VII are also good. I think FAST or BS3 are easier to tune than the Accel.

I think http://www.lewisracingengines.com/pages/702073/index.htm had the AFR's at less than $2400 with the CNC chambers last I checked. Call Mike for a current quote.



Jody

[Speedster]

Listen to these guys, they are pointing you in the right direction. They've "been there, done that". Use a good single plane and go for the AFR heads. They are just plain superior. Cometics are excellent head gaskets. I used a cog because I am a psycho case, but both Jody and Blown have used the serpentine and (I think) it worked for both. I highly recommend talking to Tim at Ron Davis for the radiator and intercooler, but be forewarned, none of this is cheap. Obviously, you are looking for the biggest bang for your buck, but to reliably obtain high horsepower, there is always expense. Do what you want, but remember, if you can't get it to the ground, the higher the power the WORSE it gets. The 'ol sliding versus static friction game.:drive:

[ccracin]

Jody, Bruce,Speed,
Don't think I am hard headed. If I hadn't mentioned it before I am a Mechanical Engineer if that explains anything. I try to exhaust my questions and evaluate the options. I realize this cost money and alot of it. When I was racing it was nothing to build a 40K car and trash it the first night. Then put it back together. And so on. We are aware of what quality costs. I once went through 3 Howe rad's in on night and didn't even finish the race! I will be in contact with lewis racing engines. The other thing I need to make clear is I keep saying I am spending the money. This is coming out of Dad's wallet, so that is another reason for all the dialogue. I am going to use this thread to present the different options to him. I am the designer, engineer and builder. Hopefully I get to drive it. Thanks for the info on the efi as well, that agrees with other comments I have received. Where are you guys located? Do you ever get to the Goodguys show in Columbus? Know anybody that wants a decent set of factory aluminum heads? I really appreciate the time you guys have taken. I hope you will continue to help through out the process.

[TOM NELSON]

1000 hp on that engine should be no problem at 16 psi you just have to have he right turbo's and a cam to match.The real problem in that engine is the piston you will burn a hole in the center of it.It's made to thin i don't know if je fixed this problem yet but when I went professional 11 years ago this is all we did is Twin Turbo marine Big Blocks and Every customer wanted to bolt on a tt set-up or a big roots deal everytime like clock work the piston would burn .Switch two Turbo specific Piston with around .220 thickness the problem would go away.Here's some good advise get a set of Oliver forged rods and a turbo je flat top piston with some hell fire rings.Re valve job the heads with a tight radius cutter and make the 45 .080 wide also when you cut the valve open it up to a 2.25/1.900 back cut the intake 30degrees all the way to the lap line.on the intakes leave the ex's alone.Do a bowl blend just into the valve job but don't go into the radius cut to far clean up around the guide boss on the ex side not much more than that.Inconel ex valves are a must.Cometic would be a for sure .if you have the money do a o-ring reciever groove.Switch the bearings out to h-series clevite has to be clevite.

[TOM NELSON]

This should get you reliable at the 800hp mark.And reliable for short squirts at a 1000hp obviously tolerances and machine work need to be right thats a book in itself.But here it is the Single most important decision you can make is the right turbo's and cam to match.Thats where i see most everyone go wrong.The right turbo and the wrong turbo is flat out everything we just made 2300hp out a sbc with turbo's everyone and i mean everyone said would not work.I have a turbo cam combo that will work awesome for your application.Nope i'm not going to tell you anything about them just that they will get you where you need to be and will have basically zero lag.If your interested give me a call and i'll sell you a set.Hope this helps you Tom

[ccracin]

Tom,

I will definately be calling. Thanks.

Chad

[Speedster]

Chad - Definately call Tom. He has probably run 50+ combinations on any given setup just to find the ultimate combo that works.

[ccracin]

Time to get back to this stuff. As you may or may not have seen in other posts, the project is underway. Some decisions directly related to the information i got here have been made. As tough as it was to do, we have decided that forced induction will be for a future project. The truck will have the 502 with AFR 315's and new cam. It will also have EFI and probably a Hogan's intake. Good Power reliably...... Now to the questions. The truck is going to have a 4l80e tranny. I would prefer to have one computer run the engine and tran. management. I believe the BS3 is the only one that will do this? Correct me if I am wrong. Does anyone have comments or suggestions on this subject? Has anyone worked with Force EFI in Miami? Any dealers for BS3 on here? I'm looking for any and all comments or suggestions that relate to both the engine and trans. electronics. Thanks. As you can see I do listen!!:lateral:

[Blown353]

Rob @ Force EFI is a good guy, knows his stuff and does nice work.

His lead time estimates can be a bit optimistic though, which is pretty common in this business...

[ProdigyCustoms]

Your very most important FI decision is not how many boxes you have to run, but tech and support. We use FAST and a TCI box and have had great luck. Cost works out the same as the BS3, and I can get someone on the phone at FAST. Finding a local tuner should you not be able to dial in things yourself is most important. Since FAST is the biggest, it is usually easier to find someone familiar with FAST.

this is no knock on BS3, I am sure it is also a fabulous system, but I have such good luck with FAST I have no need to change.

If you decide on FAST, just let me know and we can hook you up.

[ccracin]

Your very most important FI decision is not how many boxes you have to run, but tech and support. We use FAST and a TCI box and have had great luck. Cost works out the same as the BS3, and I can get someone on the phone at FAST. Finding a local tuner should you not be able to dial in things yourself is most important. Since FAST is the biggest, it is usually easier to find someone familiar with FAST.

this is no knock on BS3, I am sure it is also a fabulous system, but I have such good luck with FAST I have no need to change.

If you decide on FAST, just let me know and we can hook you up.

I know what you mean. I was going to follow that path, just in a different direction. I wanted to establish my wants: (good quality,one box) then figure out the products that will do it (BS3,???,???), then see if I can get a quality system put together and find good phone and local support. If the latter is not doable then I move on. I'm in the process of finding out what EFI systems are supported locally. There are a couple shops with chassis dyno's, I'll probably talk to them and a couple others. Thanks for the offer, I'll probably be giving you a ring to talk.

[ProdigyCustoms]

. I'm in the process of finding out what EFI systems are supported locally. There are a couple shops with chassis dyno's, I'll probably talk to them and a couple others. Thanks for the offer, I'll probably be giving you a ring to talk.

That is exactly what you need to do. Call me and I will helpo with whatever you need.

[64duece]

I agree, the support and product should dictate your purchase. Most of my customer's are local yet, a few are spread out.

Next don't let a high dollar intake think it'll make more power or offer better "air" distribution than a typical single plane on a forced induction engine. Save your $$$.

The TCI controller is abit dated (approx 10yrs). Your better suited w/ XFI canned to a PCS controller. Less wires and a much better controller ;)

[ccracin]

I agree, the support and product should dictate your purchase. Most of my customer's are local yet, a few are spread out.

Next don't let a high dollar intake think it'll make more power or offer better "air" distribution than a typical single plane on a forced induction engine. Save your $$$.

The TCI controller is abit dated (approx 10yrs). Your better suited w/ XFI canned to a PCS controller. Less wires and a much better controller ;)

Thanks for the info. I have read alot about the PCS controller. If I do not use the BS3, I think the PCS controller will be what I use. Tech support will still be an issue. The sheet metal intake is strictly for visual appeal. Being that this is a street machine, my Dad (The Owner) likes the look. This engine will be normally aspirated, not force feed as the thread title indicates. We decided not to force feed this project after weighing alot of factors. I'm just hoping the Hogan's intake will not detract from the combination.

Anyone else? I love information!!