heidts drop spindles

[ArisESQ]

ive been seeing a lot of positive reviews on the ATS tall spindles that supposodely correct camber angle by raising the upper ball joint by an inch or so... well apparantly these heidts spindles do the same, and are considerably cheaper. so whats the overall consensus? good or bad?

http://www.heidts.com/heip41.htm

[Teetoe_Jones]

Do a search for a 2 inch pin drop and find out why they are bad on Camaros.

Tyler

[Leadfoot1]

How much cheaper???

I saw SC&C's set up + ATS spindle for around 900$....Figuring a set of UCL are about 500$...it puts the spindle somewhere around 400$ (?Tyler) vs 300$ for the Heidts...


Guess i'd have to ask... ;)

Lead.

[ArisESQ]

How much cheaper???

I saw SC&C's set up + ATS spindle for around 900$....Figuring a set of UCL are about 500$...it puts the spindle somewhere around 400$ (?Tyler) vs 300$ for the Heidts...


Guess i'd have to ask... ;)

Lead.


and you also have to take into consideration that you would need a different set of front brakes, which is a pretty good chunk of change.

[Mkelcy]

and you also have to take into consideration that you would need a different set of front brakes, which is a pretty good chunk of change.I suggest you do as Tyler suggested and do a search. I doubt you'll find any knowledgable poster who has good things to say about 2" drop spindles. Also, most of us who are looking for better handling from the front suspension of our first generation Camaros are also looking for better braking, so the brake swap, for us, doesn't really represent a cost increase. If you're only after the lowered look, and don't care about the other issues presented by the dropped spindles, by all means go ahead.

So to answer your question, no the Heidt's 2" drop spindles are a bad substitute for the ATS spindles for a performance use.

[darren@ridetech]

I put a set of Fatman's G-force spindles on my Chevelle. They are also a taller drop spindle. They do drop down the steering arm to correct the bumpsteer. I have a set of 18 x 8.5's on the front and have not had any clearance problems. That is on a Chevelle though, the spindle is the same but the steering arm might be a bit different. Not sure.

[MarkM66]

Darren, do you know what backspacing those wheels have?

I think that's where the clearance concerns are.

[Teetoe_Jones]

Darren-
Shame on you. You should know that dropping the steering arm points on a front steer chassis such as an A body makes the bumpsteer curve even WORSE than factory does.
Read these 2 threads:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140829

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142187

Tyler

[darren@ridetech]

I did a 5" backspacing on the front and a 6" on the rear. This is on a 70 Chevelle with our Street Challenge kit on it, so I have to make sure they would tuck. These are the first pics that I have taken of the car. (Took them about 3 minutes ago.) Just got it about a month ago and just finshed the wheels, air ride and disc brakes the other day!

Tyler,
Rodney, (our fab. guy) measured the bumpsteer and such so I will check with him to see what he got.

[ArisESQ]

I suggest you do as Tyler suggested and do a search. I doubt you'll find any knowledgable poster who has good things to say about 2" drop spindles. Also, most of us who are looking for better handling from the front suspension of our first generation Camaros are also looking for better braking, so the brake swap, for us, doesn't really represent a cost increase. If you're only after the lowered look, and don't care about the other issues presented by the dropped spindles, by all means go ahead.

So to answer your question, no the Heidt's 2" drop spindles are a bad substitute for the ATS spindles for a performance use.


some of us already have money invested in larger brakes on the stock spindles, so having to pay another $X,000 doesent really make much financial or logical sense. so like i said. it does represent a cost increase.

i wish they made those ATS spindles compatible with the aftermarket brakes i have now.

[Leadfoot1]

Sorry for late response...'Forgotten to subscribe to thread.

I'm looking at a C6 Z06 brakes swap with Forgeline wheels.... So yes, brakes are a welcomed addition (Up from 4w drums! :D ) and not that bad of an expense if you choose the right set up (for your intended use, of course).

What is the best way to lower the car if spindles are not...? I'm an air bag thinker (read: WINTER project)....especially since we got the new TRACK PROVEN numbers!

:thumbsup:

Reccomendations?

Lead.

Tyler, what is pricing on the spindles? Which drops 1" if i'm correct. (?)

[ArisESQ]

ATS doesent have plans to make some spindles compatible with the original camaro stuff do they? that would probably sell very very well...

[fatlife]

S
I'm looking at a C6 Z06 brakes swap with Forgeline wheels.... So yes, brakes are a welcomed addition (Up from 4w drums! :D ) and not that bad of an expense if you choose the right set up (for your intended use, of course).

Reccomendations?

Lead.

Tyler, what is pricing on the spindles? Which drops 1" if i'm correct. (?)
You have read this thread correct?
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=5750&highlight=brakes

[Leadfoot1]

Yeah...

But i have not gotten any fitment anwsers yet. I'm working with Forgeline and Prodigy (Frank) right now to make sure everything is gonna work right.

I really like the look of C6 Z06's and performance wise...It's gonna be a Bad A$$ street only car, so Bling is where its at for now. (no street racing!)

I have to fill out the Forgeline build sheet this week end and only hope they'll be able to fit 'em. The first anwser seemed negative because backspacing needed on a 19 x 8 or 9" front wheel.

Thanks for reminding me of the thread.

Advises are always welcomed.

Lead.

[David Pozzi]

http://www.pozziracing.com/Media/drop_spindle_clearance.jpg
Here's the problem with drop spindles. Note how low the Camaro tie rod is compared to a front-steer Chevelle.
David

[fatlife]

Yeah...

But i have not gotten any fitment anwsers yet. I'm working with Forgeline and Prodigy (Frank) right now to make sure everything is gonna work right.

I really like the look of C6 Z06's and performance wise...It's gonna be a Bad A$$ street only car, so Bling is where its at for now. (no street racing!)

I have to fill out the Forgeline build sheet this week end and only hope they'll be able to fit 'em. The first anwser seemed negative because backspacing needed on a 19 x 8 or 9" front wheel.

Thanks for reminding me of the thread.

Advises are always welcomed.

Lead.

Thats cool, at least you know what the intentions are for the car really are. IMO brakes are there to stop the car, not make it look good but I did go out of my way to get blue powdercoated calipers so who am I to say something :)

and BTW the best/easiest/cheapest way to lower the front end of a first gen camaro is to just put lower springs in it. Never understood the advantage to drop spindles unless you wanted teh car riding on the bumpstops.

[Leadfoot1]

Thanks guy's.

I might get to do a few laps just for fun someday and to see what'S it got...and what "I" can do, but its just not gonna be the car's vocation, i just don't have either time or finances to race at any level... :rolleyes: (kids, house, life in general...)

Fatlife, when you state that brakes function is to "Brake", i agree...But are you saying the Z06 do not brake well? (except for pad wear, which i read, but with mileage i do i should be OK) I read they will be a very good set up for the street and moderate racing, thats why i'm interested + at that price they look good. Suits me. :-)

Maybe i should re-read that other thread?

Thanks for the pic David.

So what do you guy's think of this then,

- Stock drum spindle machined to fit Corvette rotors (no drop here!)
- Dropped springs.
- Speed Tech C5 caliper bracket (should fit C6? or not, because of 14" rotors???)

I'm trying to do it right but not too expensive....'Keepin my dough for the wheels. (Kinda expensive but they make the car!)

Only substitute i can think of would be an ATS Spindle if Tyler ever decides to let me know how much they sell for....

Thanks,

Lead.

[fatlife]

I'm sure you'll be fine :thumbsup: I was just saying personally I wouldn't want brakes with obvious defects, $400 pads and 25ilb rotors.The only complaint I have heard from vette owners on the streets is that the GM pads dust A lot and the dust is really nasty stuff.

And I don't think if you want those spindles that it would be really that hard to get ahold of Tyler, just call ATS? I think the spindles are like $650 or a little more

[Leadfoot1]

LOL!!!

I asked Tyler on another thread and he didn't anwser....I just didn't think i needed to write him or call to get a price. I tought he would write it on here(maybe its a Big Secret and i don't know? :lol: )

I think i saw the SC&C adjustables A-Arms + ATS spindles for like 900$ (at SC&C) That would put the Arms at 250$! 'Guess i'll just get the right info and then rush out my order to SC&C!!!

Hey, thanks for your help!

Lead.

[Teetoe_Jones]

I don't always have time to answer every question posted for me. You can always check our website, all our products have prices and can be purchased 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week.

Even a search would have netted that answer in under 15 seconds. $695 per pair with hubs.

Tyler

[Leadfoot1]

Hey Tyler,

Thanks Man. I had been to your site but could not come up with the price (??? my Bad?). I just figured that since you had wrote on the same thread as me and after me, you just ignored the question...And since i could not come up with the price on your site...Well.

Anyway, thanks for the anwser! Much appreciated.

'Looking forward to taking the right decision on my set up.

Lead.

[fatlife]

Hey, I was just thinking about something, if you are just going to street drive your car and such, then what in the first place do you need 6 piston 14" brakes for?

[Teetoe_Jones]

We're just busy with SEMA is all. Go to our site, under products, then suspension, and it it the 2nd item in that section with a price right next to it.

Tyler

[Leadfoot1]

Hey, I was just thinking about something, if you are just going to street drive your car and such, then what in the first place do you need 6 piston 14" brakes for?

Well....

1- I presently have 4 drums. If i'm to upgrade, might as well do it right no? And at that price its a good set up vs 5k$ Bears. (For me at least)

2- I already have an LS1 engine next to the car thats going to get a Procharger system this winter (or maybe a TT set up...That guy with the white Chevelle really is getting to me with is set up... :hail: ) So Braking is definetely going to be a good idea anyhow.

3- 11 inch rotors would look a bit small in my 19 inch front wheels.

4- Bling. :rolleyes:

Lead.

.................................................. .....
Hey,

Thanks Tyler.

'Def my bad....

Lead

[fatlife]

Well....

1- I presently have 4 drums. If i'm to upgrade, might as well do it right no? And at that price its a good set up vs 5k$ Bears. (For me at least)

who needs $5K bears??? this goes the same with my original question, neither are needed for the street. Also IMO it is not doing it right, on the street having 28 ilb rotors is not a plus, and 14" rotors and 6pot brakes aren't needed either. Don't get caught up in the numbers, everyone see's 6 piston 14" and immediatly thinks they will be so great, same with HP numbers 800hp sounds so cool, but in reality 500 will be more fun and work better and break less.

2- I already have an LS1 engine next to the car thats going to get a Procharger system this winter (or maybe a TT set up...That guy with the white Chevelle really is getting to me with is set up... :hail: ) So Braking is definetely going to be a good idea anyhow.

Braking is a good idea anytime you drive a car. If you are mainly going to drive on the street, you won't even be able to get traction or be able to really push the car hard enough legally to need a 6piston 14" rotor setup.

3- 11 inch rotors would look a bit small in my 19 inch front wheels.
Your right on this even my 13" rotors look small behind my 19" wheels. If you want the brakes to fill more room, get a smaller wheel not a bigger rotor.
4- Bling. :rolleyes:
Well now, here the truth comes out :lol:

I know the deal quite well, the eye candy and bling can really sway your purchasing decisions. Its a hard disease to overcome!! Bragging rights and looks really can make you make poor decisions. Gotta ask yourself if you get more enjoyment from looking at your car and admiring it, and if you feel great getting oohs and wows from people checking your car out, or do you get the most fun from driving the car and having something that works great in a good package.

I know this is kind of redundant and i don't want to look like I am picking on you or acting like a "hard-on"(lol) but I think posts like this can help other people. I've said it before and am guilty of falling into the trend, but sometimes the looks seem so great and the specs seem great but believe it or not it probably isn't the best decision. These brakes are just such a great example of this. People love to throw the biggest binders they can on their car because it looks so cool and meaty filling up the wheel opening and it really gives a racey look. In reality too much brake is a bad thing. If I recall correctly the DSE prototype car had serious brake lockup issues at the Pigeon forge autocross event because the front Baer 6 pistons had too much clamping force and overloaded the tires. They would lock up too easily. A lot of people think that the super big brakes are a good investment because hey its safe to have great brakes. In reality they are just trying to convince themselves because it really is mostly about how cool they look and how great they think they will be able to stop. The bigger brakes best advantage is heat dissapaption. In racing the brakes get so hot that a good system is a must, plus you need confidence when you are making repeated 150mph stops. You won't necessarily ever take advantage of this on the street. Most drivers in a panic situation i.e. traffic suddenly stops on the freeway SLAM on the brakes and will lock them up. That is why they created ABS was to prevent lockup in panic situations(and rain) In racing most of the slowing down and stopping is foreseable and in a controlled enviroment, so they can modulate the pedal and brake controlably. On the street I doubt you will ever be going the speeds that you do on the track and when that emergency comes the bigger brakes are just gonna make you lock up even faster.

Plus those brakes suck,and the negatives outweigh the postives :willy:
:soapbox:

In the end its your car, and you should do exactly what will make you happy. Just making a point.

[Leadfoot1]

and appreciated!

I already participated in a thread about the aftermarket subframes and had an opinion kinda like the one you have here (modified stock is as good as any other aftermarket and the expense was not worth it for the sub-f) that thread lasted so many pages Scott finally locked it down because some guy's standed behind their opinions too hard...

I like discussing and learning. I know its my car and i can do whatever i want to it, its also nice to get different opinions (if i didn't think so i would be in the garage instead of typing this) It gives me a chance to evaluate theories and it also helps taking a decision knowing the facts.

I said "Theory" earlier because to really find out if any set up is good or bad for the application i don't really think there is an alternative to "Trying it for yourself".

I know i could probably use C5 stuff and be fine, and whats the name of the other company again? Touring special or something, I don't like the look of their calipers... maybe just the colour + i think they are +$$$ than C6 set up.

I saw a few threads about the C6 Z06's and just think they look Killer.

What would you do instead of this then?

Considering i want Good performance, cost effectiveness, parts availability and Bling. (By the way, i have never hidden that i like bling, i've written "call me a Poser if you like" so many times i should have a copy button for it!)

Thing is, i want an awesome car that will do good in every aspect and drop jaws while doing it. Not a full on racecar, just a B-A street car.

On the wheel size...Its definitive- 19 and 20 is what its gonna be! I already have Pirelli P-Zero's in 345-25-20 for the rear and am getting ready to order some Forgeline ZX3 with Gunmetal or Black centers...

The 'needed' point of this discussion is the one that i realise often comes up.
I have been told once....; "I don't even need the complete car if you want to take it to that", and then realised it made sense.

You do it because you feel it, you love it, and that's it.

But i agree its not a reason to decide of anything just on "WOW" factor or because its trendy : The reason i take time to read comments and discuss with others.

BUT MAN THOSE Z-06 BRAKES WOULD LOOK KILLER BEHIND MY WHEELS!!!

:D

Do you know the wweight of a C5 set up?

Lead.

I tried to post longer than you did...i'll go see now. :willy: :D

[fatlife]

lol-good sport!

Well I can tell you the C5 setup is super cheap, especially if you use the ATS spindle, all you need are 2 $30 napa rotors and a set of calipers and pads(I got custom powdered coated super bling C5 calipers), but it sounds like you want to go a little "higher end" than that. Go for the Z06 stuff if you want, we just have differnet philosphies but thats cool. Just make sure to buy some good pads for them. I think carbotech is the only one making them, but I haven't looked into it for awhile. Don't get the GM pads. Oh yeah, that red paint on the calipers turns orangish after awhile if that is a concern to you.
BTW, Been there done that :_paranoid
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9687/p1030084tm3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8862/p1030118dc5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

sorry for the hijack

[Leadfoot1]

Ditto for highjacking!

But it turned from spindles to braking from the original poster so i guess its not as bad!

:unibrow:

I'll let you know when i take final decision, and i'll definetely post pics!

Thanks again.

Lead.

[ccracin]

This kind of stuff is great. I'm sure there are people out there who have never considered all these things. I was just hoping to add a couple of things. Brake / Spindle / Suspension "Swaps" are one thing, you have certain constraints but when building a suspension "System" from scratch, you have to look at the whole system and what you want from it. You can in alot of cases get your cake and eat it. IMO you should start with the ride height you want with whatever wheel and tire size you want. Then go from there. You can use whatever spindle you want as long as you start with the spindle as your fixed point. Camber curve, scrub radius, anti-dive etc can be designed for, starting at the spindle. Bump steer can be eliminated with any spindle by the proper control arm and rack or tie rod placement. Brakes are also very flexible if you look at the complete system not just the caliper. This is simply a matter of mechanical advantage. Size the master cylinder properly for the given calipers and lock up issues will be driver not hardware issues. I would never put smaller rotors and calipers on just to keep the tires from locking up. This is a case where when properly designed bigger can most likely be better. Looks, cost, performance are all design criteria. Once the front suspension system is completely designed then you simply set your clip heght to match the ride height you would like. Again this is JMO with regard to starting with a custom clip. Swaps actually IMO are more difficult from a design standpoint. That is why all these companies put great effort into providing components that work. Again, this is great stuff.

[jake72ss]

I've been trying to find out for a while now about the fatman/heidts spindle in relation to a chevelle. When looking at them on the net they look as if the steering arm could be bolted up in two locations, one down next to the lower ball joint and another behind the spindle pin. I know what everyone is saying especially those who are pushing other setups, but I still can't find any clarification on this. I have B body stuff right now, It's far from ideal I know, but until ATS makes some adjustments so those of us too stuborn to use 17" wheels will have to search out other avenues. To make things a little more constraining I have Global West upper arms, which I have discovered use chevy vega lower ball joints:( So I'm stuck with what I have until I get more clarification. Thanks for any help, Jake

[Teetoe_Jones]

The other set of holes is for the brake bracket, not the steering arm.

Tyler

[Marcus SC&C]

Jake72ss if you want great suspension and steering geometry almost identical to that achieved with the ATS spindles but you want to run smaller brakes and 15" wheels just get our Street Comp Stage 2-Plus. I designed it specifically for guys like you. Selling the GW arms should pay for most of the Stg.2-Plus. I had a V-8 Vega years ago and I had to special order ball joints for it even then.... Mark SC&C