Jackass w/ LS9: original build and new Jackass 2.0 updates!

[WSSix]

Thanks, Robert. I believe that's the lower access. I know Mark has said he was putting a door in one of the cars he has built. I just can't remember which one it was.

[Bmf5150]

Will Thomson sell the ls7 (forged with oil squirted)upgraded short block by it self??

[Sled Alley]

the removable lower is access to service the tank and get to the lines. there will be a fill port / dipstick through the firewall similar to how it was on hellfire

[Stielow]

Will Thomson sell the ls7 (forged with oil squirted)upgraded short block by it self??

I'm sure he will. Give them a call Thomson Automotive / Lingenfelter 248-349-0044 Wixom, MI.

Mark

[Bmf5150]

Thanks mark!!
Stan Mucha

[aggie91]

We need an update, had to go to page 4 to find this thread....

[Stielow]

We need an update, had to go to page 4 to find this thread....

We have the 40 mm taller intercooler bricks and spacers in from C&R. We hope to dyno is in a couple weeks.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150513_065526_zpsvuh10qua.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150513_065532_zpseadmdu1j.jpg

I had to purchase 4 sets to cover the tooling so if someone needs/wants a engine set IM me.

We wrapped up 90% of the wiring. I need to finish the ABS brake lines then we can repaint the engine bay and bottom of the car.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150513_065503_zpsesby5uzo.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150513_065407_zpssqcxfvgm.jpg

Mark

[Stielow]

We finally have a solution for fuel flow. With a lot of help from Kinsler, Carl Casanova and Jason Hines we feel the best solution for E-85 and Gas for street and track is going with 2 CTS-V fuel pumps controled by Carl Casanova’s Vapor Worx system.

We need 2.2 gallons a minute at 65 psi at full power.

Because JA had a Ricks tank Matt is modifing the tank to allow two pumps and the in-tank pickups.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG959197_zps8cmskjdy.jpg

[will69camaro]

We finally have a solution for fuel flow. With a lot of help from Kinsler, Carl Casanova and Jason Hines we feel the best solution for E-85 and Gas for street and track is going with 2 CTS-V fuel pumps controled by Carl Casanova’s Vapor Worx system.

We need 2.2 gallons a minute at 65 psi at full power.

Because JA had a Ricks tank Matt is modifing the tank to allow two pumps and the in-tank pickups.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG959197_zps8cmskjdy.jpg

Good choice! It'll prob look like this when done.


http://i.imgur.com/OygP3Jj.jpg

[glassman]

Very nice.

I guess pm'ing Carl is in order to see if that retrofit is doable/available for my Ricks tank, as i do get starvation issues on the road course at 1/2 tank....(hmm, maybe i'm not driving hard enough?)

[Ketzer]

We have the 40 mm taller intercooler bricks and spacers in from C&R. We hope to dyno is in a couple weeks.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150513_065526_zpsvuh10qua.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150513_065532_zpseadmdu1j.jpg

I had to purchase 4 sets to cover the tooling so if someone needs/wants a engine set IM me.

Mark

Hmmm, I wonder if those would fit my CTS-V....?

[Stielow]

Hmmm, I wonder if those would fit my CTS-V....?

A CTS-V lid and a ZR-1 blower lid have the same bolt pattern.

So will it bolt up... Yes. I would need to look at the sealing inside on the bottom of the bricks to the blower.

Mark

[GRob]

Mark I'd be interested as well for an LSA.

[Stielow]

Mark I'd be interested as well for an LSA.

I think there would be a better cost efficient solution for a LSA. By the time you buy an LS9 blower lid and the C&R parts it would be very spendy.

I'll look at a LSA system to see if a better intercooler could be made.

Mark

[waynieZ]

It won't fit, the LSA has a single brick and it sits right in the middle over the opening in the supercharger. I already asked if C&R was going to do something similar for the LSA and they told me not right now but you never know. They would probably sell a ton of them if they did.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/Hardcore454/LSA%20%20Motor%20and%20%20Parts/1650d1339171756-zl1-blower-lid-swap-zl1ic_zps5rcnl2os.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/Hardcore454/media/LSA%20%20Motor%20and%20%20Parts/1650d1339171756-zl1-blower-lid-swap-zl1ic_zps5rcnl2os.jpg.html)

[CarlC]

We do have a RetroWorx kit for single modules. For duals it's usually best to make your own mounting plate.

http://vaporworx.com

Mark, are you using the full fuel system during the dyno runs for validation?

[Bmf5150]

Looks great

[BigRedCamaro]

This is a great thread. Amazing work on an already awesome '69. A lot of great ideas here. Keep it up Mark.

[Stielow]

We do have a RetroWorx kit for single modules. For duals it's usually best to make your own mounting plate.

http://vaporworx.com

Mark, are you using the full fuel system during the dyno runs for validation?

Carl

That is the plan. We will use the tank in the dyno cell and start with 100% gasoline then go to E85 then look at blends (E50, E25...) To make sure the flex fuel sensor is working correctly.

It is a bit more work to run the system in the cell but then you can control everything.

We will also A/B test the bigger intercooler bricks.

Still a lot of little details to work out.

Mark

On a side note we fired up the hoist last night. No more rolling around on the shop floor.

[GregWeld]

On a side note we fired up the hoist last night. No more rolling around on the shop floor.



You'll never go back to jack stands and creepers. I used to refuse to go to my buddies houses to help them --- they HAD to bring the car to me so we could use my lift.

[LXSS350]

We have the 40 mm taller intercooler bricks and spacers in from C&R. We hope to dyno is in a couple weeks.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150513_065526_zpsvuh10qua.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150513_065532_zpseadmdu1j.jpg

I had to purchase 4 sets to cover the tooling so if someone needs/wants a engine set IM me.


Mark

Mark what did C&R say is the expected efficiency gain with the 40mm larger bricks? Obviously the dyno results tell a story, but without knowing the base results on standard bricks such results don't give us mortals the relative cost/gain equation.

(Ignore as Mark already answered that he will be testing std and bigger bricks - colin )

[Ketzer]

I think there would be a better cost efficient solution for a LSA. By the time you buy an LS9 blower lid and the C&R parts it would be very spendy.

I'll look at a LSA system to see if a better intercooler could be made.

Mark

A lot of the Cadillac guys are switching to the ZL1 lid which is supposed to have a slightly larger brick?


Jeff-

[waynieZ]

Yes it has more air volume. When I ordered my LSA I got a ZL1 lid to put on it. We have to be excited that Mark is doing these upgrades as they are trickling down so we get to have them too.

[theastronaut]

My axle ends that you can now buy from Detroit Speed

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSCN0572_zpse6mpxf6q.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/DSCN0565_zpsvxjvkmax.jpg

Mark

Is there a part number available for the axle ends? Very interested in using a set for my '66 C10 build.

[pro-touring.no]

Allredy ordered... new rear from DSE with your floater stuff:) going to Norway soon.. Thanks for sharing with us Mark.. :G-Dub: :flag2:

[jlwdvm]

Always looking for ideas in your threads! A little off topic, but was there a 2016 Shelby GT350 at your house this weekend?

[Stielow]

Starting on ABS brake lines.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150518_064201_zpsv8vsydly.jpg

Mark

[syborg tt]

Mark,

I feel like I am watching the "Mule Build" in PHR all over again.

Your builds are truly inspirational and the fact that you share your knowledge and make parts available after you design them with the "Team/Small Army" of people you work with. Once again this build has lit the fire in me to get back on my car and start toying with it.

Thank you again for sharing your knowledge and experience.

[aggie91]

Mark,

I feel like I am watching the "Mule Build" in PHR all over again.

Your builds are truly inspirational and the fact that you share your knowledge and make parts available after you design them with the "Team/Small Army" of people you work with. Once again this build has lit the fire in me to get back on my car and start toying with it.

Thank you again for sharing your knowledge and experience.

Marty - Could not have said it better myself. Even though I don't have a Camaro or car for that matter, his process and ideas have inspired me too to work on my truck and maybe incorporate some of his ideas.

Mark, you are doing a wonderful job with the posts on this update and explaining why you make decisions is great!

[67greengt]

Mark,

As the others have mentioned thanks so much for sharing the build pictures and your experience/knowledge with the rest of us!

Is it critical for the intercooler to be out in the front of the grille opening as opposed to the A/C Condenser?

I just got my C/R Racing Rad and once test fit I'm going to get them to build me a custom Intercooler to replace the Roush Racing factory Intercooler along with some overflow/surge tanks to go with it. I really like the setup you have come up with and was thinking of doing the same exact intercooler/Vintage air condenser - is that a 14x24 condenser or a 14x22?

Thanks again for all your help

Tom
67 Rouscharged Coyote Fastback with DSE/Roadster Shop IFS

[Stielow]

Mark,

As the others have mentioned thanks so much for sharing the build pictures and your experience/knowledge with the rest of us!

Is it critical for the intercooler to be out in the front of the grille opening as opposed to the A/C Condenser?

I just got my C/R Racing Rad and once test fit I'm going to get them to build me a custom Intercooler to replace the Roush Racing factory Intercooler along with some overflow/surge tanks to go with it. I really like the setup you have come up with and was thinking of doing the same exact intercooler/Vintage air condenser - is that a 14x24 condenser or a 14x22?

Thanks again for all your help

Tom
67 Rouscharged Coyote Fastback with DSE/Roadster Shop IFS

In an all-out race car I would delete the A/C or place it second in the stack. I placed it first because it packageed well that way and if I needed to pull it for better air flow I could more easily.

Off memory my A/C condenser is 14 X 24 or get the biggest one you can.

On a side note I dove a GM car yesterday for tank fulls of fuel flat out (45 minutes sessions) on the Milford Road Course with the A/C on high. The cooling system was so good it never got hotter than 195 F and the A/C was blowing ice cold. My lap time on lap 22 was the same as lap one, no temperature fall off. So if you set up the system correctly the A/C should not affect the performance of the car. (We cut the A/C compressor at WOT). It was great to have the windows up and the A/C kicking, very comfortable. I almost turned on the radio... The new car, the 6th version of something, is great... Unlike the A-hole form Jalopnik I was able to drive flat out for 1.5 hours in a V-8 and not crash.

Also a big benefit of keep the engine / trans / diff / power steering is nothing leaks or pushes fluids over.

Marty - Could not have said it better myself. Even though I don't have a Camaro or car for that matter, his process and ideas have inspired me too to work on my truck and maybe incorporate some of his ideas.

Mark, you are doing a wonderful job with the posts on this update and explaining why you make decisions is great!

Thanks for all the kind works. I try to share what I’m doing to help people out. This hobby is expensive enough without have to do things over. I the way I do things may not be the cheapest, but it works for me. A lot of what I do is over kill if you are not tracking your car. I have a big advantage that my day job relates to my hobby very closely. I learn something new every day.

I had my Dad up for my spring car party and as Dad and I were talking he said, “if the 18 year old Mark could see the 50 year old Mark he would be impressed”. When I was a kid I never dreamed of doing what I’m doing now. Dad and I were looking at the Hot Rod feature from 1993 and talking about all the junk I have built over the years. Kind of cool.

All these projects are snap shots in time on what the technology / trends are at the time it was built. Next year there will be new parts and things to try. I’m just now looking into the LT engines and I’m starting to learn about them. The LS engines are great and we know all the tricks to get them to work. In 6 years we went from a 700 HP LS9 to a 1000 HP LS9.

I love these old cars and will keep on refining them.

Mark

[GRob]

Mark, your house is probably the first "public" place where a GT350 has met a Z28. That's pretty damn cool.

Not sure what your role was but congrats on the 6th gen. Looks really great.

[67greengt]

Thanks Mark!! :thankyou:

[Bmf5150]

Great post mark,thanks for all you share!!!

[Sieg]

I had my Dad up for my spring car party and as Dad and I were talking he said, “if the 18 year old Mark could see the 50 year old Mark he would be impressed”. When I was a kid I never dreamed of doing what I’m doing now. Dad and I were looking at the Hot Rod feature from 1993 and talking about all the junk I have built over the years. Kind of cool.

Mark that quote is really special.

Thank you for being you. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Mark that quote is really special.

Thank you for being you. :thumbsup:




You're "special"..... but not in a good way.

[Flash68]

Mark that quote is really special.

Thank you for being you. :thumbsup:

You're "special"..... but not in a good way.

:lol: Yeah Sieg... or should we call you Stuart Smalley?

[69hugger]

:lol: Yeah Sieg... or should we call you Stuart Smalley?

HEY! Easy on the Stuart Smalley crack. He is my esteemed Senator. (I just vurped my breakfast). :( :( :(

Bill

[Stielow]

Matt at Sled Alley got all the fab work done and now the Dutchboys are painting the bottom of the car and the firewall.

[GregWeld]

I like your Dad better than you.....

[raustinss]

Oh....good one! ...mark tell Greg opinions are like toothbrushes we all have one no need to share.

[Sieg]

Oh....good one! ...mark tell Greg opinions are like toothbrushes we all have one no need to share.

Considering the avatar picture right above GW's last comment Mark doesn't need to say a thing. :D

[fleetus macmullitz]

HEY! Easy on the Stuart Smalley crack. He is my esteemed Senator. (I just vurped my breakfast). :( :( :(

Bill

sBmFwKH5bVY

:shakehead:

Matt at Sled Alley got all the fab work done and now the Dutchboys are painting the bottom of the car and the firewall.

Great seeing JA get updated here Mark. :thumbsup:

[69hugger]

[QUOTE=Cosmo mentis;607304]sBmFwKH5bVY

:shakehead:



Thanks Skip. Another in the long, rich tradition that brought us Governor Jesse "The Body"!


Bill

[sanddan]

Looks like someone's been jacking on the sill's instead of the frame.

81954

[Stielow]

Looks like someone's been jacking on the sill's instead of the frame.

54494

That is production but someone did jack it up on the pinch flange some time after it was painted.

JA is a rare 69 Camaro that still has the orginal quarter panels. It was a very solid car when set started on it.

Mark

[formula88]

It's a mad thrash weekend to get Jackass 2.0 ready for Goodguys Des Moines...

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/JA2/DSC_4982.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/JA2/DSC_4982.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/JA2/DSC_4985.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/JA2/DSC_4985.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/JA2/DSC_4989.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/JA2/DSC_4989.jpg.html)

[GregWeld]

Mark needs a Rubbermaid cart - for tools - so you don't have to lay stuff on the ground... Come on dude! Raise your game!! LOL




http://www.amazon.com/Rubbermaid-Service-Utility-2-Shelf-9T6700BLA/dp/B001602VI2/ref=pd_sim_328_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0NHR30NQ2H7807YVCYXH

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Welcome to the real workd Greg. ��

Craftsman makes a nice one with great storage drawers and a lower shelf for the "sitting on the ground" work. Carts are great.


Looks good mark. Progress is progress.

[RodZZilla]

Awesome. I hope to be there Friday for sure.

[andrewb70]

Mark needs a Rubbermaid cart - for tools - so you don't have to lay stuff on the ground... Come on dude! Raise your game!! LOL

http://www.amazon.com/Rubbermaid-Service-Utility-2-Shelf-9T6700BLA/dp/B001602VI2/ref=pd_sim_328_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0NHR30NQ2H7807YVCYXH

Thanks for the tip Greg. Just ordered one!

Andrew

[Nick@HPM]

Car looks great as always.

[70 tt rustang]

It's a mad thrash weekend to get Jackass 2.0 ready for Goodguys Des Moines...

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/JA2/DSC_4982.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/JA2/DSC_4982.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/JA2/DSC_4985.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/JA2/DSC_4985.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/JA2/DSC_4989.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/JA2/DSC_4989.jpg.html)

Is it me or is that a huge filter :poke:

[monza]

Always so impressive and setting the bar higher and higher. Thanks!

[clill]

No hurry:poke:

[WSSix]

1000+hp needs a lot of air.

Good luck making the show, guys!

[Stielow]

We made it to Des Moines. It was a huge thrash but we made it. My Dad picked up my new Finspeeds Thursday and we installed them Thursday night.

It was fun to see all the cars togther.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150702_182450_zpswbcpxfg9.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150702_181915_zpswkjwnpy8.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150704_191349_zps7ljiso5f.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150704_191522_zpsiwigt4sm.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150705_074815_zpswzbzx6y8.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150703_100620_zpsoktafnud.jpg

[Vegas69]

Which one is your favorite?

[SSLance]

This is a great shot Mark...


http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150705_074815_zpswzbzx6y8.jpg


Any chance of the group getting back together anywhere else this summer?

[Roberts68]

Not only was it cool to see all of them together, but it was GREAT to meet you in person!

I enjoyed seeing the White one more than I anticipated because frankly, I read those articles back then and because it presents a much more attainable goal for me and my Camaro, and it likely exceeds my needs and driving ability to be quite honest.

I want to thank you again for signing my book, that conversation felt a little awkward on my end... but kidding around as you prepped Hellfire Saturday in the Auto-X area is a great memory for us. Thank you!

Kurt and Andrew Chenoweth gave Jodi and I our first Auto-X rides ever in their 70 Challenger Fasturn and although the view is very different from the passenger seat with zero control, I cannot see myself pushing my Camaro near that far any too soon... but I am Sooooo looking forward to it!

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e214/YamaCowboy/Camaro/IMG_20150703_125012449_zpsde57e962.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/YamaCowboy/media/Camaro/IMG_20150703_125012449_zpsde57e962.jpg.html)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e214/YamaCowboy/Camaro/IMG_20150704_115549409_zps48fbbd02.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/YamaCowboy/media/Camaro/IMG_20150704_115549409_zps48fbbd02.jpg.html)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e214/YamaCowboy/Camaro/IMG_20150704_115527712_zpse41e9e19.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/YamaCowboy/media/Camaro/IMG_20150704_115527712_zpse41e9e19.jpg.html)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e214/YamaCowboy/Camaro/IMG_20150703_125219214_HDR_zps67ed7b79.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/YamaCowboy/media/Camaro/IMG_20150703_125219214_HDR_zps67ed7b79.jpg.html)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e214/YamaCowboy/Camaro/IMG_20150704_115702289_zps2cf63c89.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/YamaCowboy/media/Camaro/IMG_20150704_115702289_zps2cf63c89.jpg.html)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e214/YamaCowboy/Camaro/IMG_20150704_101533610_HDR_zps8c624629.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/YamaCowboy/media/Camaro/IMG_20150704_101533610_HDR_zps8c624629.jpg.html)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e214/YamaCowboy/Camaro/IMG_20150704_101738468_zps88ad2ae7.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/YamaCowboy/media/Camaro/IMG_20150704_101738468_zps88ad2ae7.jpg.html)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e214/YamaCowboy/Camaro/IMG_20150706_165652_zps92e9c10d.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/YamaCowboy/media/Camaro/IMG_20150706_165652_zps92e9c10d.jpg.html)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e214/YamaCowboy/Camaro/IMG_20150704_101533610_HDR_zps8c624629.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/YamaCowboy/media/Camaro/IMG_20150704_101533610_HDR_zps8c624629.jpg.html)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e214/YamaCowboy/Camaro/IMG_20150704_101738468_zps88ad2ae7.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/YamaCowboy/media/Camaro/IMG_20150704_101738468_zps88ad2ae7.jpg.html)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e214/YamaCowboy/Camaro/IMG_20150706_165652_zps92e9c10d.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/YamaCowboy/media/Camaro/IMG_20150706_165652_zps92e9c10d.jpg.html)

[Stielow]

This is a great shot Mark...


http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150705_074815_zpswzbzx6y8.jpg


Any chance of the group getting back together anywhere else this summer?

I think this was a one time deal. Getting the cars togther is tough. It worked in Des Moines because two of the car are in a collection there now.

Hot Rod is doing a feature on the cars so look for that this fall.

Mark

[SSLance]

Last winter you mentioned something about a possible reunion in NKC, was hoping to see that happen so close to home. Heck, I'd like to see just one of the cars in person...

Still loving the seats BTW, thanks again.

[jarhead]

I had my Dad up for my spring car party and as Dad and I were talking he said, “if the 18 year old Mark could see the 50 year old Mark he would be impressed”. When I was a kid I never dreamed of doing what I’m doing now. Dad and I were looking at the Hot Rod feature from 1993 and talking about all the junk I have built over the years. Kind of cool.

Mark

The best compliment a Man can receive!

(sorry just read more, not copying Sieg, I miss my Dad, he sounds allot like yours)


Thanks for all that you share, it is inspiring.

[tmadden]

You gotta stand back and look at them and say to yourself, I'm a bad man!!

[LXSS350]

We made it to Des Moines. It was a huge thrash but we made it. My Dad picked up my new Finspeeds Thursday and we installed them Thursday night.

It was fun to see all the cars togther.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150702_182450_zpswbcpxfg9.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150702_181915_zpswkjwnpy8.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150704_191349_zps7ljiso5f.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150704_191522_zpsiwigt4sm.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150705_074815_zpswzbzx6y8.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150703_100620_zpsoktafnud.jpg



A picture speaks a thousand words and all of those cars represent why we love to do what we do.

Well done Mark and all the people who helped you in the creation of such an amazing vehicles.

[waynieZ]

Amazing collection of cars right there, and every one a step forward in performance.

Beautiful craftsmanship.

[WSSix]

Congrats on making the show, Mark!

[GRob]

I'm considering those Finspeeds for my '69 but that's still at least a year out.

They look great and the whole car looks amazing.

Great job Mark.

[Stielow]

Sorry it has been a few month since I posted a JA 2.0 update.

This project has had a few more sorting out issue than most of my last projects. I think it was due to some old parts and some new and everyone including myself has gotten much busier.

So we finally have it up and running and running well.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150630_153100_zpso8m2qeil.jpg

The engine layout worked out great and the extra intercooler spacer gives the engine a little differnt look.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150630_153013_zpsveuqslgx.jpg


One issue we chased for a bit was a fuel delivery issue. On the chassis dyno it would drop fuel pressure. With the help of Carl Casanova at VaporWorx we sorted it out. I need to flow 2.3 gallons a min at 60 psi to support my power levels on E85. With 2 CTS-V pumps and a boost a pump we can do it. The car is putting down well good solid numbers now. Before everybody gets all what kind of power does it make--- Let me say I think chassis dyno numbers are a bit of BS. I just wanted to verify the fuel system and the calibration without going to jail. I was doing 3rd and 4th gear WOT on the hiway and it was getting a bit sketchy.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150820_154253_zpscsd1rvnb.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/FB_IMG_1441291169440_zpsqmw5nwty.jpg

I've got about 1400 miles on the car now and it runs strong. The E85 has been a fun experiment. I have a station 4 miles from my house that has it. It is cheap but I go through it fairly quickly.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150901_182024_zpse7f3dshc.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20150901_182003_zpswn4hgttn.jpg

Matt at Sled Ally made a cup holder / phone holder / Lat Long Sensor cover for the car.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG959720_zpsnfean3eo.jpg

We also added Gen 2 mirrors so I can have mirrors on both sides of the car. Much easier to drive.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG959609_zpszgeficg6.jpg

[LXSS350]

Mark what is your feeling on how the temps are working out? Its very interesting esp with JA's new cooler package and the swap to the bigger bricks (and cooler running E85).

[WSSix]

Glad to hear you guys have made good progress with the car, Mark. Enjoy it before it gets too cold.

[Stielow]

Mark what is your feeling on how the temps are working out? Its very interesting esp with JA's new cooler package and the swap to the bigger bricks (and cooler running E85).

I'll be at the track Monday on a 90 F degree day so it will show one way or the other. So far on the street it has been great.

Mark

[syborg tt]

I love this car and this is my favorite part of the car and now I want one and don't feel bad we have spent the last year trying to sort out the issue's with my very basic motor and I think we have finally figured it.



Matt at Sled Ally made a cup holder / phone holder / Lat Long Sensor cover for the car.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG959720_zpsnfean3eo.jpg

[will69camaro]

What benefit does the BAP give you on those pumps? Was pressure does it push it to? I was told the CTS-V pump has a bypass that opens at 65psi. I'm likely going to be looking at ways to push more pressure from if possible.

My issue will be differential pressure across the injector affecting how the injector reacts (with boost).

Appreciate your help. Love this build and glad you got to do some experimenting on E85. I hope to do some myself in the future.

William

[Stielow]

What benefit does the BAP give you on those pumps? Was pressure does it push it to? I was told the CTS-V pump has a bypass that opens at 65psi. I'm likely going to be looking at ways to push more pressure from if possible.

My issue will be differential pressure across the injector affecting how the injector reacts (with boost).

Appreciate your help. Love this build and glad you got to do some experimenting on E85. I hope to do some myself in the future.

William

Will

You are correct a CTS-V pump does hit the internal pressure relief at around 65 psi. These pump are sensitive to voltage. At 60 psi the pump will flow 482 lbs per hour at 13.5 volts and 615 lb per hour at 15.7 volts. With my system running at 13.5 volts I would be right on the edge for fuel flow. I need about 850 lbs per hour. So with a 20% safety factor I need about 1000 lbs per hour of fuel flow for E-85 to support 1150 HP piston HP. I'm right at 1000 HP at the flywheel and need 150 HP to turn the blower.

I built a test rig (Stop watch and a bucket) to verify I have sufficient fuel flow as installed in the car. I could not maintain 60 psi and the flow rate I needed without the boost a pump. I ended up with two Vapor Worx models and one boost a pump because a boost a pump can't handle more than 30 amps. Both pumps pull 44 amps so I'm just boosting the voltage on the 2nd pump. I stage the pumps with a Hopps switch. Once it hits boost the 2nd pump with the boost a pump kicks in. With two Vapor Worxs system the fuel pressure stays rock solid at 60 psi all the time.

On a side note we integrated a GM truck E-85 sensor so the E67 controller reads the alcohol content off the sensor and adjusts the pulse width and timing accordingly. Our pump E-85 in MI is not always 85% alcohol and if a gas station does not have E-85 I can run 91 - 93 octane.

Because I read the CAN data I can display the alcohol content on my dash. I know all of this is geeky engineer stuff but it is cool.

The car pulls hard on E-85 and I see no spark knock activity. On 93 pump fuel I can see small traces of knock that we pull timing for.

It takes a bit of getting use to the smell of the E-85. It is different not bad just different. So far it has been a very fun experiment and I'm looking forward to taking it to the track. Also the $2.10 a gallon is kind of cool also for E-85.

Mark

[fleetus macmullitz]

Factory look under the hood...priceless.

And kudos also Mark on upstaging #Deflategate



:thankyou:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Will

You are correct a CTS-V pump does hit the internal pressure relief at around 65 psi. These pump are sensitive to voltage. At 60 psi the pump will flow 482 lbs per hour at 13.5 volts and 615 lb per hour at 15.7 volts. With my system running at 13.5 volts I would be right on the edge for fuel flow. I need about 850 lbs per hour. So with a 20% safety factor I need about 1000 lbs per hour of fuel flow for E-85 to support 1150 HP piston HP. I'm right at 1000 HP at the flywheel and need 150 HP to turn the blower.

I built a test rig (Stop watch and a bucket) to verify I have sufficient fuel flow as installed in the car. I could not maintain 60 psi and the flow rate I needed without the boost a pump. I ended up with two Vapor Worx models and one boost a pump because a boost a pump can't handle more than 30 amps. Both pumps pull 44 amps so I'm just boosting the voltage on the 2nd pump. I stage the pumps with a Hopps switch. Once it hits boost the 2nd pump with the boost a pump kicks in. With two Vapor Worxs system the fuel pressure stays rock solid at 60 psi all the time.

On a side note we integrated a GM truck E-85 sensor so the E67 controller reads the alcohol content off the sensor and adjusts the pulse width and timing accordingly. Our pump E-85 in MI is not always 85% alcohol and if a gas station does not have E-85 I can run 91 - 93 octane.

Because I read the CAN data I can display the alcohol content on my dash. I know all of this is geeky engineer stuff but it is cool.

The car pulls hard on E-85 and I see no spark knock activity. On 93 pump fuel I can see small traces of knock that we pull timing for.

It takes a bit of getting use to the smell of the E-85. It is different not bad just different. So far it has been a very fun experiment and I'm looking forward to taking it to the track. Also the $2.10 a gallon is kind of cool also for E-85.

Mark

that right there is above and beyond stuff. Nice work Mark.:thumbsup:

[will69camaro]

Will

You are correct a CTS-V pump does hit the internal pressure relief at around 65 psi. These pump are sensitive to voltage. At 60 psi the pump will flow 482 lbs per hour at 13.5 volts and 615 lb per hour at 15.7 volts. With my system running at 13.5 volts I would be right on the edge for fuel flow. I need about 850 lbs per hour. So with a 20% safety factor I need about 1000 lbs per hour of fuel flow for E-85 to support 1150 HP piston HP. I'm right at 1000 HP at the flywheel and need 150 HP to turn the blower.

I built a test rig (Stop watch and a bucket) to verify I have sufficient fuel flow as installed in the car. I could not maintain 60 psi and the flow rate I needed without the boost a pump. I ended up with two Vapor Worx models and one boost a pump because a boost a pump can't handle more than 30 amps. Both pumps pull 44 amps so I'm just boosting the voltage on the 2nd pump. I stage the pumps with a Hopps switch. Once it hits boost the 2nd pump with the boost a pump kicks in. With two Vapor Worxs system the fuel pressure stays rock solid at 60 psi all the time.

On a side note we integrated a GM truck E-85 sensor so the E67 controller reads the alcohol content off the sensor and adjusts the pulse width and timing accordingly. Our pump E-85 in MI is not always 85% alcohol and if a gas station does not have E-85 I can run 91 - 93 octane.

Because I read the CAN data I can display the alcohol content on my dash. I know all of this is geeky engineer stuff but it is cool.

The car pulls hard on E-85 and I see no spark knock activity. On 93 pump fuel I can see small traces of knock that we pull timing for.

It takes a bit of getting use to the smell of the E-85. It is different not bad just different. So far it has been a very fun experiment and I'm looking forward to taking it to the track. Also the $2.10 a gallon is kind of cool also for E-85.

Mark

I appreciate the lengthy response and can also appreciate the nerdy engineering stuff as well.

I have virtually the same tank you do with dual V pumps and may have to look into the BAP mod for mine. Reading this I'm slightly worried E85 may be out of the question for me as i'm expecting to be in the 1000rwhp range on pump gas (93). Not sure those pumps will be able to be pushed enough to safely support the additional power E85 will make.

I like the idea of integrating the E-85 sensor, makes it easy to play it safe with the inconsistencies of E-85 from the pump!

Maybe I can work out two BAP setup on mine to see if I can get both to push at 15.7V when required. Then the issue becomes the effectiveness of an injector when instead of 60psi differential, you're looking at it's flow on a 45-48psi differential.

What injectors are you running on this car for 1000flywheel?

William

[Stielow]

I appreciate the lengthy response and can also appreciate the nerdy engineering stuff as well.

I have virtually the same tank you do with dual V pumps and may have to look into the BAP mod for mine. Reading this I'm slightly worried E85 may be out of the question for me as i'm expecting to be in the 1000rwhp range on pump gas (93). Not sure those pumps will be able to be pushed enough to safely support the additional power E85 will make.

I like the idea of integrating the E-85 sensor, makes it easy to play it safe with the inconsistencies of E-85 from the pump!

Maybe I can work out two BAP setup on mine to see if I can get both to push at 15.7V when required. Then the issue becomes the effectiveness of an injector when instead of 60psi differential, you're looking at it's flow on a 45-48psi differential.

What injectors are you running on this car for 1000flywheel?

William

I have Injector Dynamics 155 lb/hr injectors. They seem to work fine.

[will69camaro]

I have Injector Dynamics 155 lb/hr injectors. They seem to work fine.

Sorry it seems like I'm playing 20 questions.

What ID is a 155 lb/hr? I have the ID1300 and contemplating going to ID1700s.

[clill]

Will

You are correct a CTS-V pump does hit the internal pressure relief at around 65 psi. These pump are sensitive to voltage. At 60 psi the pump will flow 482 lbs per hour at 13.5 volts and 615 lb per hour at 15.7 volts. With my system running at 13.5 volts I would be right on the edge for fuel flow. I need about 850 lbs per hour. So with a 20% safety factor I need about 1000 lbs per hour of fuel flow for E-85 to support 1150 HP piston HP. I'm right at 1000 HP at the flywheel and need 150 HP to turn the blower.

I built a test rig (Stop watch and a bucket) to verify I have sufficient fuel flow as installed in the car. I could not maintain 60 psi and the flow rate I needed without the boost a pump. I ended up with two Vapor Worx models and one boost a pump because a boost a pump can't handle more than 30 amps. Both pumps pull 44 amps so I'm just boosting the voltage on the 2nd pump. I stage the pumps with a Hopps switch. Once it hits boost the 2nd pump with the boost a pump kicks in. With two Vapor Worxs system the fuel pressure stays rock solid at 60 psi all the time.

On a side note we integrated a GM truck E-85 sensor so the E67 controller reads the alcohol content off the sensor and adjusts the pulse width and timing accordingly. Our pump E-85 in MI is not always 85% alcohol and if a gas station does not have E-85 I can run 91 - 93 octane.

Because I read the CAN data I can display the alcohol content on my dash. I know all of this is geeky engineer stuff but it is cool.

The car pulls hard on E-85 and I see no spark knock activity. On 93 pump fuel I can see small traces of knock that we pull timing for.

It takes a bit of getting use to the smell of the E-85. It is different not bad just different. So far it has been a very fun experiment and I'm looking forward to taking it to the track. Also the $2.10 a gallon is kind of cool also for E-85.

Mark


Kids...Don't try this at home.....

[GregWeld]

Kids...Don't try this at home.....



I can't even run a GoPro...

[will69camaro]

Also maybe I missed it but does your vaporworx setup have a return line or is it deadhead at the rail?

[tmadden]

I'd like to know if that is a one off piece from Sled Alley or is that someone a working man can get. Desperate need of that kind of option.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Kids...Don't try this at home.....

lol

I can't even run a GoPro...

#truth


:P

[Stielow]

Also maybe I missed it but does your vaporworx setup have a return line or is it deadhead at the rail?

It is a dead head set up. The best thing about it which should not be over looked, is at idle and cruising around the CTS-V pump is just low load like a stock car. Hellfire has a similar system and Charley drove it on Power Tour with zero issues. When you have high fuel demands the system ramps up and sends increased voltage to the pump to handle the higher fuel flow. At low load the pump is only at around 8 volts.

Carl's Vapor Worx system allows the use of OE style pumps (Durable and Validated) in our Hot Rods. Charely and Jody can tell all the stories of other fuel systems they tried for Power Tour. Ice bags in the trunk and the Mule also had a fuel to air fuel cooler. The new stuff is way better.

My new system is a true flex fuel set up. I can run 91 octane, E-85 or race fuel. I wanted to do this for the latent heat of vaporization that the E-85 gives for blower engines and it is cheap. At most track days I run VP109 and that is now about $8 a gallon. With E-85 at $2.10 a gallon burning 30% is a no brainer. It has been a little bit of a science project and I want to get it to the track and see how it works.

Mark

[will69camaro]

Fully agree on all points. That's why I did vaporworx and OE pumps (cts-v). Having heard from friends the horror stories of vapor lock and icing gas tanks. The technology tested by manufacturers is FAR beyond what the aftermarket does.

Made it a simple decision!

Looking forward to your updates on e85 track day.

Thanks,
William

[69hugger]

Mark,
J/A is all steel, (except the hood, right?) while Hellfire has C/F fenders, inners, trunk lid, & bumpers. Yet the rest of the cars are pretty similar.
Have you weighed them both to see the weight difference?

Thanks for the continued updates. Very interesting to follow!


Bill

[Stielow]

Mark,
J/A is all steel, (except the hood, right?) while Hellfire has C/F fenders, inners, trunk lid, & bumpers. Yet the rest of the cars are pretty similar.
Have you weighed them both to see the weight difference?

Thanks for the continued updates. Very interesting to follow!


Bill

Bill

Hellfire is about 125 lbs lighter and mostly off the front. Hellfire also has 315 tires on the front and the splitter and slightly larger rear spoiler.

That is the biggest mechanical difference between the two cars. On similar tracks Hellfire should be faster than JA.

Mark

[JON Q]

Mark, any data on the new bricks?

[mikels]

Sorry it seems like I'm playing 20 questions.

What ID is a 155 lb/hr? I have the ID1300 and contemplating going to ID1700s.

Mark's motor has ID1300's. Awesome injectors (although not cheap).

Dave

[will69camaro]

Yea. Very pricey. Like $1800. Just sold mine and going with the ID1700. Even pricier at $2000. Prices like diesel injectors!

[Stielow]

Mark's motor has ID1300's. Awesome injectors (although not cheap).

Dave

Dave Mikels is the guy behind all the power in JA 2.0. The drivability is near perfect. It idles at 750 and will pull from 1000 rpm in 6th gear. This is the 6 year evolution of the LS9 platform. Dave has calibrated my cars for 20 years now. So he is the real deal and really understands the hardware and calibration of engines.

Mark

[JohnC]

You guys make an amazing combo! Thanks for the incredible inspiration and continued raising of the bar! I need a ride...lol

John

[will69camaro]

Awesome. Sounds like this car is amazingly well sorted. Which is not a surprise in the slightest.

[69hugger]

Bill

Hellfire is about 125 lbs lighter and mostly off the front. Hellfire also has 315 tires on the front and the splitter and slightly larger rear spoiler.

That is the biggest mechanical difference between the two cars. On similar tracks Hellfire should be faster than JA.

Mark

Thanks for the response.
With JA "finished", is a new project starting any time soon? Care to offer a teaser at what might be next?

Bill

[formula88]

A few photos of JA 2.0 from todays track event at Waterford Raceway. The ambient temperature was a steamy 90 degrees, but JA ran cool (203 F peak) on E85 consuming a tank full each 15 minute session. We will definitely need to bring more E85 for the next track event!

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/JA2/928A3522.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/JA2/928A3522.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/JA2/928A3460.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/JA2/928A3460.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/JA2/928A3490.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/JA2/928A3490.jpg.html)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/67CamaroLS7/JA2/928A3499.jpg (http://s1158.photobucket.com/user/67CamaroLS7/media/JA2/928A3499.jpg.html)

[fleetus macmullitz]

Thanks for posting Gordon. :thumbsup:

[69x22]

:thumbsup: Car has a beautiful stances too..

[Stielow]

We had a good test at Waterford. I had some good data and some not so good data.

The cooling system worked great.

The ambient air temp was 87 F. On a 15 minute session the oil temp stabilized at 207 F and the oil temp was 231 F.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/2_zpsikmgi5mp.png

Now the bad news the fuel pressure is still falling off with high load.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/1_zpsqaj3kuxz.png

All this data is off my built in Race Technologies dash. It is nice to look at data after the test and have to relay on looking at the dash.

[will69camaro]

That's an excellent output for the track day. Got some decent logging done.

Oil/Water temp look great for the temp and track duty. What is your prediction on the falling fuel pressure?

[Stielow]

That's an excellent output for the track day. Got some decent logging done.

Oil/Water temp look great for the temp and track duty. What is your prediction on the falling fuel pressure?

The car voltage is staying rock solid at 13.4 volts. I think I need to add another boost a pump or go to bigger fuel pumps. I will add two channels to my data logger to look at voltage at the pumps and make sure that is not the issue.

I also need to check the calibration of the sensor. I have chased data before to find out it is a sensor.

The learning curve on the fuel system on the E-85 has been a little rough but the results on track look very good so I’m sticking with it.

On the positive side the C&R cooling stack look like they work well and the bigger intercooler bricks are also keeping the inlet air temps down.

Mark

[Muadi]

I had the opportunity to watch the runs on Monday. What a great car to watch on the track.

[will69camaro]

The car voltage is staying rock solid at 13.4 volts. I think I need to add another boost a pump or go to bigger fuel pumps. I will add two channels to my data logger to look at voltage at the pumps and make sure that is not the issue.

I also need to check the calibration of the sensor. I have chased data before to find out it is a sensor.

The learning curve on the fuel system on the E-85 has been a little rough but the results on track look very good so I’m sticking with it.

On the positive side the C&R cooling stack look like they work well and the bigger intercooler bricks are also keeping the inlet air temps down.

Mark

I really am enjoying getting some knowledge dropped on me before I start my own journey with learning E-85 and the fueling requirements of a big power plant.

Hard to see from the logs on the screen. Was the pressure dropping the entire time during the pull or did it start to catch back up (possible issues of pump reaction being a dead head setup vs a return style fuel setup)?

You said you are using E-85 from the pump correct? Your system using a GM computer so have a flex fuel sensor installed to help the tune correct for variance in the ethanol content? (believe i've seen as low as 70% from other boards on the ethanol content).

William

[hersheys69z]

Is the next Stielow Camaro in the works yet?
Crossing my fingers for twin turbo awd on Z/28 struts since Mark likes to push the engineering envelope :)

[CarlC]

All of the calc's should be right for E85 but the pressure is still falling during high-power application. Mark has been steadily increasing the power going to the pumps and doing some diagnostics/datalogging to see where the weakness lies. This has definately been the most challenging project to get sorted. Big power = no Easy Button.

[mikels]

Hard to see from the logs on the screen. Was the pressure dropping the entire time during the pull or did it start to catch back up (possible issues of pump reaction being a dead head setup vs a return style fuel setup)?

You said you are using E-85 from the pump correct? Your system using a GM computer so have a flex fuel sensor installed to help the tune correct for variance in the ethanol content? (believe i've seen as low as 70% from other boards on the ethanol content).

William

We've had no issues running returnless fuel systems - even with big power / high flow - when you stage secondary pump to come in early enough to maintain stable control as fuel flow rates rise.

In Brian Thomson's Corvette, we have basically the same engine as JA2.0, but are running dual TI 267 pumps with staged Vaporworx PWM controlled system. Same E85 - same flow rate requirements. So far, has performed perfectly with no pressure falloff - although we have not yet tracked the car (coming soon!).

On both cars I integrated the flex fuel sensor to allow seemless transition between pump premium, E85 and everywhere in between. Mark even has the ECM measured ethanol percentage displayed on his dash. Yes, there is variation in ethanol %, but system accommodates all levels without issue.

Like Carl says - big power & high flow rates mean no easy solution - but we will get there!

Carl has been great to work with as development continues on Jackass 2.0 and TA Corvette systems. Having a system that will meet WOT E85 fueling requirements while delivering stable flow rates on gas @ idle WITHOUT fuel heating issues is an incredible demand. All this would not be possible without his support.

Primary reason we went to E85 was not for power, but for cooling. Power gains are just side benefit (6-8% is what we measured).

I think we have reached a practical limit for the Thomson Automotive 7.0L SC package. We've passed point of diminished returns as far as lap time reduction (will still help in 1/4 mile and standing mile events). However, as Mark can also attest - being traction limited to ~80-100 MPH is something you'll never tire of!

Dave

[wiedemab]

However, as Mark can also attest - being traction limited to ~80-100 MPH is something you'll never tire of!

Dave

I don't think I've ever owned anything that would spin the tires at 100mph with bald tires on the snow! Yeeehaw!

[will69camaro]

We've had no issues running returnless fuel systems - even with big power / high flow - when you stage secondary pump to come in early enough to maintain stable control as fuel flow rates rise.

In Brian Thomson's Corvette, we have basically the same engine as JA2.0, but are running dual TI 267 pumps with staged Vaporworx PWM controlled system. Same E85 - same flow rate requirements. So far, has performed perfectly with no pressure falloff - although we have not yet tracked the car (coming soon!).

On both cars I integrated the flex fuel sensor to allow seemless transition between pump premium, E85 and everywhere in between. Mark even has the ECM measured ethanol percentage displayed on his dash. Yes, there is variation in ethanol %, but system accommodates all levels without issue.

Like Carl says - big power & high flow rates mean no easy solution - but we will get there!

Carl had been great to work with as development continues on Jackass 2.0 and TA Corvette systems. Having a system that will meet WOT E85 fueling requirements while delivering stable flow rates on gas @ idle WITHOUT fuel heating issues is an incredible demand. All this would not be possible without his support.

Primary reason went to E85 was not for power, but for cooling. Power gains are just side benefit (6-8% is what we measured).

I think we have reached a practical limit for the Thomson Automotive 7.0L SC package. We've passed point of diminished returns as far as lap time reduction (will still help in 1/4 mile and standing mile events). However, as Mark can also attest - being traction limited to ~80-100 MPH is something you'll never tire of!

Dave

Carl has been excellent in my dealings with him so far as well. We discussed two CTS-V versus three when I had ordered. As plans always seem to change and the project snowballed even further, I'm going to be pushing the two more than I had originally intended.

I am very aware of the benefits on the sensor, and sadly holley has not made a compatible sensor available yet on their standalone engine management systems, but I am told they are working on it. 6-8% when you're talking 1000+rwhp cars adds up however. I'm hoping to make north of 1000rwhp on pump 93, so the benefit of E-85 with cooling as well as the benefit of resistance to pre-detonation, I'm hoping we can add timing and see more than just the 6-8% gain. I'll find out more when I get to testing and maybe by then holley will have their system of ethanol content working by then!

Looking forward to traction at 100mph issues!

William:drive:

[mikels]

I'm hoping we can add timing and see more than just the 6-8% gain.

We are adjusting timing based on ethanol % and 6-8% is typical. I've never seen E85 gain more than that without additional airflow (in this case would be boost).

Did find higher percentages of ethanol (up to 85%) to be very knock resistant - when trying to hook the spark curve on dyno, would reach point where additional timing made no more power - but still did not generate knock. On pump gas typically start running into knock issues simultaneously with power gains flattening out - if not before (this on high cylinder pressure engine).

You are correct though that while 6-8% may not sound like much, when added to numbers in the mid 900's, it's quite a bit!

All numbers I quote are engine dyno as well - 1000 RWHP is a staggering number - and nearly impossible to achieve while maintaining the driveability level we have with this package.

Dave

[will69camaro]

All numbers I quote are engine dyno as well - 1000 RWHP is a staggering number - and nearly impossible to achieve while maintaining the driveability level we have with this package.

Dave

Yea I dont suspect it will have the driveability as that package, but should be ok. Nice thing about turbos vs blowers is I can be more selective of when it makes big power.

I fully suspect that 1000rwhp will be in the neighborhood of 20psi, but time will tell.

William

[CarlC]

Thanks for the compliments William.

......holley has not made a compatible sensor available yet on their standalone engine management systems.....


If anyone is running a Holley Dominator ECU using a VaporWorx controller purchased prior to November 2014, please send the controller back for modification. There is something in the Holley trigger that causes VW controller damage after a short time. It will simply stop working. There does not appear to be any problem with the HP systems.

[CarlC]

We've had no issues running returnless fuel systems - even with big power / high flow - when you stage secondary pump to come in early enough to maintain stable control as fuel flow rates rise.

In Brian Thomson's Corvette, we have basically the same engine as JA2.0, but are running dual TI 267 pumps with staged Vaporworx PWM controlled system. Same E85 - same flow rate requirements. So far, has performed perfectly with no pressure falloff - although we have not yet tracked the car (coming soon!).

On both cars I integrated the flex fuel sensor to allow seemless transition between pump premium, E85 and everywhere in between. Mark even has the ECM measured ethanol percentage displayed on his dash. Yes, there is variation in ethanol %, but system accommodates all levels without issue.

Like Carl says - big power & high flow rates mean no easy solution - but we will get there!

Carl has been great to work with as development continues on Jackass 2.0 and TA Corvette systems. Having a system that will meet WOT E85 fueling requirements while delivering stable flow rates on gas @ idle WITHOUT fuel heating issues is an incredible demand. All this would not be possible without his support.

Primary reason we went to E85 was not for power, but for cooling. Power gains are just side benefit (6-8% is what we measured).

I think we have reached a practical limit for the Thomson Automotive 7.0L SC package. We've passed point of diminished returns as far as lap time reduction (will still help in 1/4 mile and standing mile events). However, as Mark can also attest - being traction limited to ~80-100 MPH is something you'll never tire of!

Dave

Thanks Dave. It's been a pleasure working with you and Mark.

Now, if TI would just make a real module with twin 267's both the flowrate and control challenges would be covered. There's likely not enough aftermarket demand to justify the tooling costs.

So, yes, we can do not only dual 267's, but triple setups as well. Be on the lookout for a mean grey TT G8. He ran the Power Tour with the triple setup with barely enough time after the complete build to drive to the start. No problems for a system that can flow enough fuel to power well over 1800hp @ 60amps. These are the same pumps used in the Hellcat, so there is OE reliability + plenty of overhead.

.....and there's new products coming :)

[Stielow]

I'm going to the Fore module that will allow me to have 2 TI 267 pumps and I will keep on of the CTS-V modules for primary pump. So when I'm cruising the car will run off the CTS-V pumps then once I hit boost I will have 2 TI 267 pumps plus the CTS-V module.....That should fix it.....:guns:

I would like to thank Carl for all the time on phone calls on sorting out my fuel system. It is fun to talk to a guy that gets it.

On a side note I hurt the yoke on the drive shaft. So out with the cast Spicer part and in with a 4130 part. I pulled the trans and D&D Perf looked over the trans and it was fine. I drove the car this morning and it is dead quiet. We found the issue after the Waterford track testing and the driveline developed a ticking noise.

So the development continues. Test car, break parts, fix, repeat.

[will69camaro]

Thanks for the compliments William.

If anyone is running a Holley ECU using a VaporWorx controller purchased prior to November 2014, please send the controller back for modification. There is something in the Holley trigger that causes VW controller damage after a short time.

No problem Carl!

I'll look at the date on my box and see, but I may have to send it back to you yet again to have it modified if that's the case. I still have a bit of time before the car is running so no big rush.

Thanks Dave. It's been a pleasure working with you and Mark.

Now, if TI would just make a real module with twin 267's both the flowrate and control challenges would be covered. There's likely not enough aftermarket demand to justify the tooling costs.

So, yes, we can do not only dual 267's, but triple setups as well. Be on the lookout for a mean grey TT G8. He ran the Power Tour with the triple setup with barely enough time after the complete build to drive to the start. No problems for a system that can flow enough fuel to power well over 1800hp @ 60amps. These are the same pumps used in the Hellcat, so there is OE reliability + plenty of overhead.

.....and there's new products coming :)

I like this idea of single CTS- V as primary and secondary being bigger pumps. I'll have to look into the Hellcat pumps and see what can be worked out.

[CarlC]

The pump in the Hellcat module is a 267 but the output is reduced to about 318lph due to jet pump needs. Fitting the Hellcat module is tough due to the angled hat.

[CarlC]

No problem Carl!

I'll look at the date on my box and see, but I may have to send it back to you yet again to have it modified if that's the case. I still have a bit of time before the car is running so no big rush.



I like this idea of single CTS- V as primary and secondary being bigger pumps. I'll have to look into the Hellcat pumps and see what can be worked out.

Yours was April 2014, so it's needs a bit of surgery.

[syborg tt]

So the development continues. Test car, break parts, fix, repeat.

Okay that was funny and I want to Thank you and all of the guys here that are sharing information with us. I have learned so much reading your threads and who I need to go to when I need the right part.

Thank you again for sharing your knowledge

[will69camaro]

Yours was April 2014, so it's needs a bit of surgery.

Lets take our discussion to my thread! I'll make a comment there!

Appreciate the help and thanks Mark for letting us hijack your thread with fueling tech.

William

[hersheys69z]

Hi Mark
I'm thinking of buying a new 2015 Z/28 and was just wondering if you guys have something better coming down the pipe next year that would make me regret it?

[Stielow]

Hi Mark
I'm thinking of buying a new 2015 Z/28 and was just wondering if you guys have something better coming down the pipe next year that would make me regret it?

We always have something better......:relax:

Is the iphone 6 better that the iphone 5...? Depends on what you like or need.

The 2015 Z/28 is a very low production one off car. It is special. It is a pure drivers car. I feel the cars coming in the future will not be as true of a driver's car as the 14/15 Z/28. Will the future have faster cars...maybe. Will they be as raw and fun to drive as a Z/28. That is for the public to tell us. I can say the 2014/15 Z/28 is an iconic car and will have a place in the automotive history books.

On a side note with the goverment required fuel economy ratings coming these type of cars are going to be a lot more expensive in the future. We have to sell a lot of high fuel econmony cars to balance out the high performance cars.

Mark

[waynieZ]

I love to hear ( read ) the passion when you talk about these cars. That's why your builds are so amazing. Keep Chevy on the cutting edge!

[LXSS350]

Mark I use the Walbro 460 E85 pumps with the Fore FC3 Triple Pump Staged Controller. Even though I am staging the pumps the biggest issue is the big amperage draw as pressure demand increases. On the Walbro's at say 6bar a pump is pulling 19amps or it pulls just over 15amps at 3bar.

Although my system runs well with the multiple Walbros I just came across the Asnu FP580X (E85) pump. By comparison it is only pulling 12.5amps at 6bar and 7.7amps at 3bar.

[hersheys69z]

We always have something better......:relax:

Is the iphone 6 better that the iphone 5...? Depends on what you like or need.

The 2015 Z/28 is a very low production one off car. It is special. It is a pure drivers car. I feel the cars coming in the future will not be as true of a driver's car as the 14/15 Z/28. Will the future have faster cars...maybe. Will they be as raw and fun to drive as a Z/28. That is for the public to tell us. I can say the 2014/15 Z/28 is an iconic car and will have a place in the automotive history books.

On a side note with the goverment required fuel economy ratings coming these type of cars are going to be a lot more expensive in the future. We have to sell a lot of high fuel econmony cars to balance out the high performance cars.

Mark

Thank you for your insight.
Do you feel the Z/28 is a better track car than a used Zr1 corvette?
Also for race track performance is there a advantage to getting a Z/28 with no air conditioning?
I was leaning towards not getting ac because of weight and possible hp loss but curious to know what the real answer is.
Thanks for your advice. Means a lot coming from the man behind the Z/28 :)

[Stielow]

Thank you for your insight.
Do you feel the Z/28 is a better track car than a used Zr1 corvette?
Also for race track performance is there a advantage to getting a Z/28 with no air conditioning?
I was leaning towards not getting ac because of weight and possible hp loss but curious to know what the real answer is.
Thanks for your advice. Means a lot coming from the man behind the Z/28 :)

The best bang for your buck right now is a used C-6 Z06 with Carbon Brakes for a track car. You can also pick up a used ZR-1 for less than a Z/28. Which one is "better", if you want to be real fast get the ZR-1 if you want to just do lapping days and have fun the Z06 or Z/28 are better track cars.

If you want a new car our best track car value is a 1LE Camaro. Great cars very durable.

On the A/C question, if you are only going to track a Z and you want the rarest one get no A/C. If you ever want to drive it on the street get A/C and the other 5 speakers. It makes a much nicer car.

Mark

[Roberts68]

I will just place this here.
e85 locator page, with option for a mobile app (http://www.ethanolretailer.com/flex-fuel-station-finder/)

[Sieg]

If you want a new car our best track car value is a 1LE Camaro. Great cars very durable.

Mark

The 1LE really surprised me, great value without a doubt. Very adequate track car and somewhat affordable if you happen to wad it up.

I'm guessing the Camaros might be easier to service than the Vettes???

[hersheys69z]

Thanks Mark
Still debating what to do.
My wife gave me permission to buy a new Z/28 but said I have to sell all my other cars which includes my 67 Firebird that I have owned since I was 13.
Wish I could test drive one. Then I would probably for sure would do it.
My local track is Laguna Seca so a few track days a year would be fun :)
Never would have thought this would be such a hard decision.

Are you allowed to say that there are no Z/28's in GM's future?
I like the look of the 2015 Camaro better than the new one.
Thanks for helping me with your insight on things

[CarlC]

Mark I use the Walbro 460 E85 pumps with the Fore FC3 Triple Pump Staged Controller. Even though I am staging the pumps the biggest issue is the big amperage draw as pressure demand increases. On the Walbro's at say 6bar a pump is pulling 19amps or it pulls just over 15amps at 3bar.

Although my system runs well with the multiple Walbros I just came across the Asnu FP580X (E85) pump. By comparison it is only pulling 12.5amps at 6bar and 7.7amps at 3bar.

Nice pump, but it may be difficult to find a replacement. The Walbro's are everywhere.

VaporWorx can PWM the Walbro 450's as well, dual and triple setups. That limits the power to the pumps to only what's needed, so if the engine does not need all that fuel, the controller will throttle the power to the pumps to only what's needed.

[Stielow]

We had a good test day at Waterford Raceway. It was a bit cold but we still got to run 3 15 minute sessions. We finally have enough fuel flow. Now we are refining the system.

The event Sunday was the Shelby Club. Great group to run with. The advance group is one of the best groups I have ever ran with. I would like to go to a few more of their events next year.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20151004%20880_4092_zpsqnhyrogb.jpg

Now that I know it will stay together we are taking it to Gingerman this Sunday for the true test.

On our test at Waterford the car is working great. I know it was a cool day but on a 60 degree day the water was 180 F and the oil got up to 195 F after 15 minutes. All the systems on the car work great.

Off the data trace the car is cornering at 1.15 G and braking at 1.3 G so once I get the chassis dialed in we should be doing better.

Mark

[syborg tt]

Morning Mark,

This is more of a curiosity question. How long do your tires last when you are tracking them ?

[GregWeld]

It's so easy to improve stuff that Charlie has owned. LOL


Good to hear it's going the way you wanted it too.... but we know you'd get it handled!

[Stielow]

Morning Mark,

This is more of a curiosity question. How long do your tires last when you are tracking them ?

The new Rival S seem to be good for about ten 15 - 20 minutes test sessions with me driving. I would think I will get two events out of a set of tires now that I can run full 20 minute tests without temp issues. If you are not going 10/10th I would think a set of tires should last you 4 - 5 events depending on the HP and mass of your car. I have junked a set of tires in a day in the past though. I tested some Michelin Super Sports and tore chunks out of them.

On a side note the new Rival S tires are WAY better than the old ones. With the current tires wars going on I would plan on new tires every year anyway.

A 2014 Z2/8 can wear out a set of tires in 80 minutes of track time going flat out. (Two tank fulls of fuel) A new Z06 will wear out the tires in 30 minutes and they are the best on the first two laps. (One tank full of fuel).

If you want to play you are going to need to pay....

Mark

[syborg tt]

The new Rival S seem to be good for about ten 15 - 20 minutes test sessions with me driving. I would think I will get two events out of a set of tires now that I can run full 20 minute tests without temp issues. If you are not going 10/10th I would think a set of tires should last you 4 - 5 events depending on the HP and mass of your car. I have junked a set of tires in a day in the past though. I tested some Michelin Super Sports and tore chunks out of them.

On a side note the new Rival S tires are WAY better than the old ones. With the current tires wars going on I would plan on new tires every year anyway.

A 2014 Z2/8 can wear out a set of tires in 80 minutes of track time going flat out. (Two tank fulls of fuel) A new Z06 will wear out the tires in 30 minutes and they are the best on the first two laps. (One tank full of fuel).

If you want to play you are going to need to pay....

Mark

Wow, that is incredible and thank you for the quick reply.

[Sieg]

Talk about great body language!!!

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20151004%20880_4092_zpsqnhyrogb.jpg

[RussMurco]

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/20151004%20880_4092_zpsqnhyrogb.jpg
I think I have my new computer wallpaper! :D

I tested some Michelin Super Sports and tore chunks out of them.
I guess my boss has never pushed his Ferrari 599 anywhere near the limits when he goes to the Elkhart Lake Ferrari every summer. That car is roughly 3700lbs with 600+ horsepower so I'm wondering if it would chunk the tires at 9 or 10/10ths too.


A 2014 Z/28 can wear out a set of tires in 80 minutes of track time going flat out. (Two tank fulls of fuel) A new Z06 will wear out the tires in 30 minutes and they are the best on the first two laps. (One tank full of fuel).
Do you think the Rival S tires would improve those numbers, Mark?

If you want to play you are going to need to pay....
Mark
Indeed!!!


Off the data trace the car is cornering at 1.15 G and braking at 1.3 G so once I get the chassis dialed in we should be doing better.

This makes me wonder, what kind of numbers did Hellfire generate once it was dialed-in?

[CarlC]

Great numbers on the thermals. Heat management on a 1000hp bullet becomes a serious system-wide challenge.

[Stielow]

I think I have my new computer wallpaper! :D


I guess my boss has never pushed his Ferrari 599 anywhere near the limits when he goes to the Elkhart Lake Ferrari every summer. That car is roughly 3700lbs with 600+ horsepower so I'm wondering if it would chunk the tires at 9 or 10/10ths too.


Do you think the Rival S tires would improve those numbers, Mark?


Indeed!!!


This makes me wonder, what kind of numbers did Hellfire generate once it was dialed-in?

Tires and tire wear is a tricky subject. First off not all Michelin Super Sports are the same. All of the OE tires are tuned to the car. The 345 I chunked on Hellfire was due to tire over temps due to 100 MPH tire spin. I'm sure Ferrari works with Michelin to tune a specific tire. The Michelin tires on the C7 Corvette are very unique from the off the shelf tires.

On your bosses car, there is big difference batween 9/10 and 10/10 on tire wear and car temps.

Right now on Rival S tires I would say JA 2.0 is faster than Hellfire on the old Rivals. Actually I have data from Waterford that it is. I will know when I get to Gingerman. Most of my data is from Gingerman so it will be a better comparison. On a high lever JA 2.0is 125 lbs heavier than HF. JA 2.0 is up 20 HP over Hellfire so that is a wash. The Rival S is much better than the Rivals so it should be fun to see the lap times.


The graph below show the Rivals (in Red) from OUSCI last year on a 85 degree day on Hellfire. The Blue data is the Rival S on JA 2.0 on Gingerman on a 60 degree day.

The X axis is Lateral Acceleration and the Y axis is Long Acceleration (Friction Circle)

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/Lat%20Long%20Rival%20vs%20Rival%20S_zpsemcuzodb.jp g

The data is kind of interesting that you can clearly see the max Lat numbers on the Rival S are up about 0.08 to 0.10 G in LH and RH turns. Because it was cold and Waterford is small the acceleration and Decel delta does not show up.

I know once I get the Rival S on a bigger track where I can get some heat in them they will really work well.

Mark

[dontlifttoshift]

What will be on the front for Gingerman?

[Stielow]

What will be on the front for Gingerman?

I Rival S on all 4 corners.

Mark

[RussMurco]

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/Lat%20Long%20Rival%20vs%20Rival%20S_zpsemcuzodb.jp g

The data is kind of interesting that you can clearly see the max Lat numbers on the Rival S are up about 0.08 to 0.10 G in LH and RH turns. Because it was cold and Waterford is small the acceleration and Decel delta does not show up.

I know once I get the Rival S on a bigger track where I can get some heat in them they will really work well.
Mark

Informative as always, Mark! Thanks for sharing and I always learn something interesting "looking over your shoulder" with your projects!

[Stielow]

Informative as always, Mark! Thanks for sharing and I always learn something interesting "looking over your shoulder" with your projects!

In full disclosure right now I have Bridgestone RE-71s 275 on the front and Rivel S 335 on the rear. The car feels very balanced. I finally got the 275 Rival S yesterday so I'll run those this weekend.

Mark

[raustinss]

any chance of you telling us what your "next" project is .... another f body or are you going to jump to something else again ,possibly another chevelle ?

[randy]

Any chance you can tell me what oil to break in my crate ls3 480hp?

Also what fluid are you using on your t56 magnums?

On the ford 9" what fluids are you using? weight, synthetic, non syn, brand etc? Any break in diff fluid either?

[Build-It-Break-it]

Any chance you can tell me what temp to set my barbecue grill at to cook my turkey burgers?

Also what vitamins do you take before each race?

In your cereal what milk do you use? 2 percent? Whole milk? Almond milk? Any chopped up banana with it?

Thanks in advance,
Love Ahmad

[andrewb70]

Any chance you can tell me what temp to set my barbecue grill at to cook my turkey burgers?

Also what vitamins do you take before each race?

In your cereal what milk do you use? 2 percent? Whole milk? Almond milk? Any chopped up banana with it?

Thanks in advance,
Love Ahmad

:lmao:

Andrew

[Stielow]

any chance of you telling us what your "next" project is .... another f body or are you going to jump to something else again ,possibly another chevelle ?

I can tell you it is not a Chevelle.... The next project will be a 1st Gen but after that we have had a lot of talk about what to do next.

It has run the gambit of C-6 ZR-1 to 32 Ford to AWD Porsche to a Pantera....

We are really looking at power to weight, CG and areo. A lot will depend on what OUSCI does with rules and if I still want to play in that space.

I have been in some sort of build for 10 years and I might take a break. I have some big projects at GM that are going to pull a lot of my spare time.

We have a lot of great cars that are turn key track cars.... Maybe I'll just buy one of those.... then tune it up.

Mark

[Stielow]

Any chance you can tell me what oil to break in my crate ls3 480hp?

Also what fluid are you using on your t56 magnums?

On the ford 9" what fluids are you using? Weight, synthetic, non syn, brand etc? Any break in diff fluid either?

Thomson breaks my engines in on normal engine oil (Like 2W30 Valvoline) then I run them on Redline 10W40.

I run D4 Redline oil in my trans

I run 90W120 normal oil in my diffs like Valvoline of similar with a big diff cooler. Keep it cool and the non-synthetic work great and are quiet. On a side note, I have had C&R build and dyno my last two diff. It is great. They are set up correctly, they are quiet and do not require break in. I have tried synthetics and they have always been noisy.

Mark

[Stielow]

Any chance you can tell me what temp to set my barbecue grill at to cook my turkey burgers?

Also what vitamins do you take before each race?

In your cereal what milk do you use? 2 percent? Whole milk? Almond milk? Any chopped up banana with it?

Thanks in advance,
Love Ahmad

I grill stuff at medium heat or until crispy on the outside.

Flinstone chewables vitamans.

2 percent with blue berries.

:bitchslap:

[sebtarta]

Thomson breaks my engines in on normal engine oil (Like 2W30 Valvoline) then I run them on Redline 10W40.

I run D4 Redline oil in my trans

I run 90W120 normal oil in my diffs like Valvoline of similar with a big diff cooler. Keep it cool and the non-synthetic work great and are quiet. On a side note, I have had C&R build and dyno my last two diff. It is great. They are set up correctly, they are quiet and do not require break in. I have tried synthetics and they have always been noisy.

Mark

Best info ever! Time to change my rear diff fluid.

I grill stuff at medium heat or until crispy on the outside.

Flinstone chewables vitamans.

2 percent with blue berries.

:bitchslap:

I knew I had the heat wrong, thank you once again.

[OLDFLM]

Mark, I know you're tired of me asking (begging really) but please do a 2nd Gen!

[Stielow]

Mark, I know you're tired of me asking (begging really) but please do a 2nd Gen!

Buy me one......:catfight:

They are great cars but with the new rules in OUSCI still not the best car to build and the 1st Gen is not also.

Mark

[raustinss]

I grill stuff at medium heat or until crispy on the outside.

Flinstone chewables vitamans.

2 percent with blue berries.

:bitchslap:

LMFAO Stielow for the win , take someone being a smartass and toss it back .
highly doubt that the big bosses at GM will allow you to tell us whats coming down the pipe ?

[preston]

It has run the gambit of C-6 ZR-1 to 32 Ford to AWD Porsche to a Pantera....

Ha ha that sounds like my brain -

"ooh, older Porsche LS1 !"
"ooh, 996 AWD Carrera Ls7 !"
"ooh, bare bones road race street rod thing"
"ooh, mid-engine Pickup with just a cab"
"ooh, rebodied C5 chassis !"
"Full frame under a '68 Cadillac El Dorado !"
"ooh, sleeper '95 Lincoln Mark VIII"

[randy]

thank you for the help

[randy]

Thomson breaks my engines in on normal engine oil (Like 2W30 Valvoline) then I run them on Redline 10W40.

I run D4 Redline oil in my trans

I run 90W120 normal oil in my diffs like Valvoline of similar with a big diff cooler. Keep it cool and the non-synthetic work great and are quiet. On a side note, I have had C&R build and dyno my last two diff. It is great. They are set up correctly, they are quiet and do not require break in. I have tried synthetics and they have always been noisy.

Mark

Thank you. Im about to start adding fluids in my car. Its getting close. I was going to use some driven br30 break in oil and then switch to ls30 for the engine.

As far as the t56 goes i just started researching it.

The rear diff i was told to use reg diff oil but dse was saying they use driven 75w90 gear oil which is synthetic. Just trying to fig out why some use 75w90 and others use diff weight.

[cpd004]

I'm with oldflm! Time to forward a generation!

[Sieg]

Buy me one......:catfight:

They are great cars but with the new rules in OUSCI still not the best car to build and the 1st Gen is not also.

Mark
So maybe name the next build Exploited? :unibrow:

[rat_rod_russell]

It has run the gambit of C-6 ZR-1 to 32 Ford to AWD Porsche to a Pantera....


Wait, what? Roadster! ROADSTER!!!! :idea:

Hint hint, wink wink.

http://gallery.nerdrods.com/Customers/Other/0000_Dave_B/Gallery_02/photos/Daves_Roadster_Rendering_29_m.jpg (http://gallery.nerdrods.com/Customers/Other/0000_Dave_B/Gallery_02/photos/Daves_Roadster_Rendering_28.jpg)
(click for bigger)

You should totally do the roadster.

[69hugger]

Blueberries, huh? Hmmm, I've been told raisins are the way to go, but I can see how blueberries might help with antioxidants. They are a superfood. Wonder if you can mix them? :headscratch:

I think we're all in agreement on the 2% at least.

Thanks for the opinion!


Bill

[PTAddict]

I have been working with Paul at C&R and they have helped me design the new radiator and heat. They are the new Denso high efficient cores with a new Spal 850 W fan. I learned a lot from Z/28 program and Hellfire.

C&R nested the coolers for the best performance. The new cores and thinner and the oil coolers are a lighter.

The oil cooler and the power steering cooler is on the drivers side and the trans / diff cooler is on the pass side.

We should have the parts next week. I love working with the C&R guys.

A cool engine is a happy engine....

Any further info available yet on this Spal 850W fan? Seems like it has worked for you in early testing.

[randy]

could you tell me how you were able to control the dual fan setup with the gpmm harness? what else is needed to make this happen? It seems like the blue wire coming from the gpmm fuse box is labled fan but I'm not sure where to go from there

[Stielow]

It was a busy week at SEMA and OUSCI. I wasn't really planning on doing OUSCI this year but I got a last minute invite and decided to go.

I didn't do that well and that has a lot to do with not practicing all summer. Doing AutoX once a year does not keep your skills up. It also does not help I don't like it....LOL.

Over all I was happy how well my JA 2.0 did.

Below is an overlay of Hellfire best lap and JA 2.0 best lap. JA was 2 seconds a lap faster than Hellfire. I know JA can go faster because my "best" lap was without power steering and a small amount of smoke coming up through the shifter boot. So with power steering and not worrying if the car was going to burst into flames I think it had another 2 seconds in it.

JA 2.0 Red Trace
Hellfire Blue Trace

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/Hellfire%20vs%20JA%202.0_zps5tvhjzto.jpg

The experiment on cooling is a 100 % success. It was a bit cool on Sunday but the car came off the track with the water at 196 F and the oil at 217 F (I may need to go to a higher thermostat on the oil)

Just JA 2.0 data below

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/JA%2020%20Cooling_zpsrqvw0qrn.jpg

I had a lot of questions on what I'm building next. Right now I'm going to finish my shop. I have been building cars for OUSCI for 7 years now and I need a break.

OUSCI was SEMA cars that can go to the track and now it is Track cars that can go to SEMA. I'm glad the OUSCI has grown and gotten new people in it. But, like I said a few times, a true vintage car will have a tough time against late model vehicles. JA 2.0 is a great (Original Sheet Metal) 69 Camaro that has been on 4 Power Tours and I put 1700 street miles on it this summer. I don't want to gut it and cut it all up to try to outrun an EVO, C-5 Corvette or a GTR. If I want a track car I'll build a track car.

The highest finishing "Muscle" car was Mike Dusold's very cool 67 Camaro. A tube frame, trans axle, Carbon Fiber, Twin Turbo, 2800 lb track car. I met Mike and he is a very cool smart guy. I love the car but I don't want to build or own a car like that right now.

It was great to see everyone and run the car a bit. Now it is time to put our toys away in Michigan and start plans for next year.

Mark

[WSSix]

Glad you have fun and that JA 2.0 did so well, Mark. Very interesting to see it go faster than Hellfire given all the weight savings you had on Hellfire. Did you think it would be faster than Hellfire?

[Stielow]

Glad you have fun and that JA 2.0 did so well, Mark. Very interesting to see it go faster than Hellfire given all the weight savings you had on Hellfire. Did you think it would be faster than Hellfire?

The BIG change is going from Rivals to Rival S tires. I think JA is making a tick more power but the corner exit speed is up a lot due to more grip and that is where most of the time is.

Mark

[Stielow]

could you tell me how you were able to control the dual fan setup with the gpmm harness? what else is needed to make this happen? It seems like the blue wire coming from the gpmm fuse box is labled fan but I'm not sure where to go from there

I've never used the GMPP harness stock. I think the blue wire just turns the fan on or off.

We reworked the system to do a Pulse Width Modified (PWM) fan. The ECM has a look up table on how hard the fan should run given engine coolant temp., A/C head pressure and Inlet air temp. Any of those 3 inputs determine the fan speed.

The old CTS-V used a twin fan set up and two relays. You could use the GMPP ECM for one fan and a discreet switch for the 2nd fan. Maybe one fan at 200 F and the 2nd fan at 210 F.

Mark

[GregWeld]

Great post as usual Mark!

I wish everyone could drive one of your last couple builds - Mayhem - Hellfire or Jackass 2.0..... THEN they'd finally understand the difference between what you're doing and what some of the competition at these events are driving.

Having driven Mayhem and Hellfire --- I didn't want to get out of either one of them.... I wanted to just keep driving to some Southern California beach.... or to New York City. They're smooth... powerful... comfortable... they don't rattle your brains out driving down the highway. A testament to the way they drive is that Charlie always has Shirley as shotgun! How many of you could get your wife to go on a 1500 mile trip with you if your car drove like a dump truck?

While I love my Mustang AT SPEED on the track -- I don't want to even drive it to the Pit gas pumps....it clunks, and chunks, and well.... it's an all out track car.

My respect level for you, and what you build, went to the moon (it was already over 200%) with 4 blocks of driving in stop and go traffic.

[clill]

The BIG change is going from Rivals to Rival S tires. I think JA is making a tick more power but the corner exit speed is up a lot due to more grip and that is where most of the time is.

Mark
So if I put Rival S's on Hellfire....:bump:

[Stielow]

So if I put Rival S's on Hellfire....:bump:

If you put Rival S on Hellfire it will be faster. Hellfire is lighter, has 315 on the front and has better downforce.

Driving JA 2.0 is like Red Devil with Hellfire's power.

So, yes Charley Hellfire is still better...... If we swapped Hellfire to E-85 it would pick up 6% power. :D

[GregWeld]

If you put Rival S on Hellfire it will be faster. Hellfire is lighter, has 315 on the front and has better downforce.

Driving JA 2.0 is like Red Devil with Hellfire's power.

So, yes Charley Hellfire is still better...... If we swapped Hellfire to E-85 it would pick up 6% power.




Where does he go to get some talent????

[Sieg]

So if I put Rival S's on Hellfire....:bump:

When.....not if. :snapout:

[Sieg]

Mark, maybe Laura can hook you up with a Focus RS. :unibrow:


:peepwall:

[tubbed69]

Mark your imfo and help is always great and well appreciated by many of us on here,I do agree 100% with you that it was a lot better when it was super nice street cars doing the auto crossing and not full track cars.I admit I would love to track race but can't afford to build the kind of cars it takes to be competitive.Getting ready to start on a new build and hoping to do an ls9 or new LT IV,What do you think of the new LT engines? Thanks for any advice.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Where does he go to get some talent????

#limitless

[Stielow]

Mark your imfo and help is always great and well appreciated by many of us on here,I do agree 100% with you that it was a lot better when it was super nice street cars doing the auto crossing and not full track cars.I admit I would love to track race but can't afford to build the kind of cars it takes to be competitive.Getting ready to start on a new build and hoping to do an ls9 or new LT IV,What do you think of the new LT engines? Thanks for any advice.

The LS9 is a proven performer with head room to make more power. The LT4 stuff is very nice but not a lot of extra head room left on that blower.

Bang for the buck the stock LT4 is great. If you want to make more power later the LS9 is easier as of Nov 2015.

As the LT engines become more main stream things may change.

Mark

[mikels]

The LS9 is a proven performer with head room to make more power. The LT4 stuff is very nice but not a lot of extra head room left on that blower.

Bang for the buck the stock LT4 is great. If you want to make more power later the LS9 is easier as of Nov 2015.

As the LT engines become more main stream things may change.

Mark

Expanding on what Mark said:

If you are running a stock LT4, it's a great engine (provided adequate cooling). If you are wanting something more powerful, there are better choices (at least today).

The engine Mark is running in JA2.0 is evolution of 7.0SC package that we started in 2009. We are now capable of 1000hp/1000tq with arguably better driveability than we had with earlier lesser powered versions.

LT engines (at least with OEM ECM) are power based control systems. You MUST have an accurate torque map of entire engine operating range to make these systems work seamlessly. Alternatively, you could switch to MoTeC M142 or M182 and get back to power being a result, rather than an input - and that could have potential.....

LT4 SC is to small to support basically anything over stock power levels. Again, great if you are happy with 650hp..... But I like more!

I could be proved wrong, but I think we are years away from having an LT package at 900+hp/tq range with the driveability and other attributes that Greg Weld was talking about a few posts ago. If he thinks Hellfire drives great, JA2.0 is even better.

Dave

BTW Sieg: I did happen to catch your 'fix' comment - and found it quite funny.

[Ns RS]

Mark, love these builds and respect the parameters for not going completely track, however is there any gains to be made if an aluminum (dse) subframe, full carbon or aluminum tub were to be incorporated?

As it is it would seem the next direction to go with all else sorted harmoniously (cooling, ABS fuel management etc). Weld can order and Charlie can finance lol:buttkick:

[Stielow]

Mark, love these builds and respect the parameters for not going completely track, however is there any gains to be made if an aluminum (dse) subframe, full carbon or aluminum tub were to be incorporated?

As it is it would seem the next direction to go with all else sorted harmoniously (cooling, ABS fuel management etc). Weld can order and Charlie can finance lol:buttkick:

Sure make it lighter and it will go faster.

It is the physics of things

Mass
Power
Center of gravity
Front to Rear weight distrubution
Areo
Downforce
Trackwidth
Grip
2wd or 4wd

Turn this knobs either up or down and the car will go faster within a certain range.

It all depends on what you want to do. How much do you want to spend to go how fast.

Mark

[JohnC]

Welcome home, Mark, and congratulations again to everyone involved in JA 2.0 on another successful year in my eyes.


Thanks,
John

[PTAddict]

With regard to OUSCI and other USCA venues, where these events have both an autocross (boo) and a "speed-stop challenge, which do you (and anyone else that want to chime in) feel performs better overall at both events--2wd or AWD??

If you take a look at the speed stop results from the 2015 challenge:

https://clubregistration.net/clients/usca/results/overallDetails.cfm?subEventType=SS

and then the AX results:

https://clubregistration.net/clients/usca/results/overallDetails.cfm?subEventType=AX

You will see the dominance of 4WD in the low speed events. Danny Popp was competitive in his C5 'Vette, but he was driving at 10.5 tenths to do it :)

Watching the speed stop in person, it was visually obvious how much harder the 4wd cars launch. Any car that has enough power/weight ratio to win will probably have traction issues in the lower gears with 2WD and street tires, especially front engine cars.

[JohnC]

If you take a look at the speed stop results from the 2015 challenge:

https://clubregistration.net/clients/usca/results/overallDetails.cfm?subEventType=SS

and then the AX results:

https://clubregistration.net/clients/usca/results/overallDetails.cfm?subEventType=AX

You will see the dominance of 4WD in the low speed events. Danny Popp was competitive in his C5 'Vette, but he was driving at 10.5 tenths to do it :)

Watching the speed stop in person, it was visually obvious how much harder the 4wd cars launch. Any car that has enough power/weight ratio to win will probably have traction issues in the lower gears with 2WD and street tires, especially front engine cars.



OK, I understand by looking at the results, but if that's the case, why does porsche make so many different 911 models for example? How does one decide?...lol

[Panteracer]

One thing I have noticed when tracking is how much faster the
new gt3's are compared to an older one... they seem to accelerate
a lot faster now.. never had them pull away from me in the Pantera
like they do now.
My neighbor said the new transmissions are so much better and
I read where they moved the torque curve down a couple hundred
Rpms and they are .3 faster on a track... They just keep tweaking
things that we cannot on our cars

Still fun to run around in a 43 year old car with those boys

Bob

[BonzoHansen]

OUSCI was SEMA cars that can go to the track and now it is Track cars that can go to SEMA.

That perfectly captures what my friend and i talked about all day saturday. This was the 4th time we've been to ousci, and we've seen the move to 'race cars'. You've mentioned you cannot build an old muscle car to beat new cars. Watching that porsche tear up the speed stop in such a seemingly effortless manner drove that home in spades.

[LS7 Z/28]

Hey Mark, I tried sending you a PM a while back but your inbox was full. Do you have a part number for the Air filter you like to use on your current setup? I saw a recent photo when you were finishing things up on this for the good guys show. It looks like a huge filter, is it sourced from a GM vehicle? I had a discussion with Brian Thomson about this but he wasn't sure about where you're getting the filter from. Thank you for any information you might be able to provide. The Airraid filter I bought was starving my engine on the chassis dyno.

Thanks

[Stielow]

Hey Mark, I tried sending you a PM a while back but your inbox was full. Do you have a part number for the Air filter you like to use on your current setup? I saw a recent photo when you were finishing things up on this for the good guys show. It looks like a huge filter, is it sourced from a GM vehicle? I had a discussion with Brian Thomson about this but he wasn't sure about where you're getting the filter from. Thank you for any information you might be able to provide. The Airraid filter I bought was starving my engine on the chassis dyno.

Thanks

It is a 6 inch inlet K&N. I made an adaptor to neck it down to 5 inches. Matt at Sled Alley made the inlet tube that tapers fron 5 inches down to 4 inches at the 90 mm TB.

I hope that helps. I can try to finf the part number but it was the biggest one I could fit in the fender.

BTW my engine is flowing around 1600 CFM so a big filter is part of the package.

Mark

[LS7 Z/28]

It is a 6 inch inlet K&N. I made an adaptor to neck it down to 5 inches. Matt at Sled Alley made the inlet tube that tapers fron 5 inches down to 4 inches at the 90 mm TB.

I hope that helps. I can try to finf the part number but it was the biggest one I could fit in the fender.

BTW my engine is flowing around 1600 CFM so a big filter is part of the package.

Mark

Thanks Mark, that is great info. Your engine is certainly an anomaly!

[Sieg]

BTW Sieg: I did happen to catch your 'fix' comment - and found it quite funny.

:thumbsup: :sieg:

[formula88]

Some JA video from an earlier test session:
lqhpBE2EFzo

[Sieg]

Jackass looking good on the track last weekend. :thumbsup:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jWb35qk/0/X2/i-jWb35qk-X2.jpg

[Vince@Meanstreets]

great shot Scott!!

Thanks Mark!! :thumbsup:

[Leadfoot1]

Jackass looking good on the track last weekend. :thumbsup:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jWb35qk/0/X2/i-jWb35qk-X2.jpg

Is it still 19/20's on J/A?

Thanks,

Lead.

[Stielow]

Is it still 19/20's on J/A?

Thanks,

Lead.

No it is 18 x 10 front and 18 x 12 rear to fit the new Rival S tires.

[hifi875]

dig those headlights on a 69. I have them on my 2015 jeep and cant wait to put them on my camaro.

[tmadden]

Great shot

[89 RS]

It looks like JA 2.0 had a great performance, congrats Mark.

[waynieZ]

Hi Mark I posted a question on cooling in the cooling section. If you get a few minutes could you check it out and give me your opinion? Its under this heading.

cooling question + Trans cooler location

Thanks.

Wayne

[Stielow]

It is Feb. in Michigan and that means another Autoramma.... Matt at Sled Alley did some tune up on Jack Ass and has it ready for the show.

We updated the car with a Marquez fiberglass Endura front bumper to replace the orginal Endura front bumper. We saved about 10 pounds of the nose of the car and after some tune up it fits good.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG9544061_zpssuiavmq7.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG9544041_zpsz4xllr4x.jpg

Matt loaded Jack Ass and the Caddy into Autoramma last night so if your are at the show stop by and say hello. The Caddy is a very cool car.

Jack Ass was in the show in 2008 and this is it's return as Jack Ass 2.0..

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/IMG9544401_zpsgl2v9f2n.jpg

Mark

[pro66tour]

SIMPLY STUNNING MARK!:star: :star: :star: :star: :star:

[WSSix]

Nice, Mark! Is there much left to do with JA 2.0 or is it just dialing it in and enjoying it for now?

[Flash68]

Damn... it's been 8 years?

Car looks great.

[waynieZ]

It still looks like the bell of the ball to me.

[Sieg]

Look'n good Mark. :thumbsup:

[hersheys69z]

Hi Mark
I was just watching the motor trend video of the corvette zo6 against the viper acr at Laguna Seca.
I would love to see jackass or hellfire be driven by Randy Pobst there just to see how one of your superior pro touring cars stacks up with the best latest Detroit cars.
That would be really cool to see what old school body with modern tech can do.

[Bmf5150]

Here is the "Stielow inspired" radiator with three integrated coolers that C&R designed and built for me that doesn't require any core support mods. They said it was quite a packaging challenge. I only have a stock LSA so hopefully it will be adequate versus Hellfire's 2X horsepower. The left side connection will be a bit of a challenge with the air intake but I think I can make it work.

I hope Mark doesn't mine me posting my junk in his thread. :>)

Don

Does it bolt up in stock location??

[jimbo]

Anybody know what and how far along , the next build is?

[dhutton]

Does it bolt up in stock location??

Yes it does.

Don

[Bmf5150]

Yes it does.

Don
What does the radiator setup cost?

[dhutton]

What does the radiator setup cost?

I can't remember so it would be best for you to give them a call.

Don

[Bmf5150]

Ok thanks

[Bmf5150]

I can't remember so it would be best for you to give them a call.

Don

Called around $2000.00

[lawkmlaw]

nice pic:trophy-1302: :trophy-1302:

[Sonar Chief]

Awesome car ... waiting for Version 3.0 with an IRS in there and kick everyone's butt!!!!

[nicks67ca]

Mark holding back on us?

http://www.imgrum.net/media/1311168146518817414_1979353474

[clill]

https://theblock.com/news/timeless-and-functional-mark-stielow-s-69-camaro

[waynieZ]

Mark, how do you like the cooling bricks from C&R ? Did they make a big difference in temps?

[will69camaro]

Random question. Where did you get these release pins for the rear bar? I'm looking for something like this that is more sleek than what I have currently.

http://i.imgur.com/URNHXh5.jpg

[Build-It-Break-it]

Chassis works sells them

[will69camaro]

Excellent

How about that fire extinguisher mount?

[fleetus macmullitz]

https://theblock.com/news/timeless-and-functional-mark-stielow-s-69-camaro

Great build, great feature. :thumbsup:

[Ppd1979]

I was wondering if you have the part number for the gmpp fuseblock which you use in your builds?

[Bmf5150]

Hey mark,with you pushing those ls9 blowers to 15lbs boost,what size intercooler reservoir do you use??

[Josh@Ridetech]

Jackass looking good on the track last weekend. :thumbsup:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jWb35qk/0/X2/i-jWb35qk-X2.jpg

:bow:

[marine15Z28]

That engine, Mayhem or Hellfire would be so good on my Z28

[Dr. Jekyll]

Excellent

How about that fire extinguisher mount?

I'm curious who makes that mount as well. Does anyone know?

[Air-bender]

Looks to be a Joes Racing mount!

[Dr. Jekyll]

Looks to be a Joes Racing mount!

Thanks but it doesn't match up to the one on the website. Maybe it's an older model.

[Dr G]

Random question. Where did you get these release pins for the rear bar? I'm looking for something like this that is more sleek than what I have currently.

http://i.imgur.com/URNHXh5.jpg

Here's a bunch:

https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-quick-release-pins/=17s949f

[98ssnova]

Here's a bunch:

https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-quick-release-pins/=17s949f

They are for aircraft I will try and google some stuff
https://www.aerospecialties.com/product-category/safety-equipment/aircraft-downlock-pins/

Try these guys?

[Dr. Jekyll]

Looks to be a Joes Racing mount!

I stand corrected, the roll bar mount looks to be a Joes's Racing and the bottle bracket looks to be a Safecraft unit.

[Air-bender]

I have a Joe's F.E. mount in my 67 which is a very well made piece and looks great in my car. I also like the functionality and ease of removing F.E. I spent way more time than anticipated looking for a roll bar mount and in the end Joes Racing was my pick.

[LSXREVIVAL]

http://www.lateral-g.net/jackass/DSC_2227.jpg

http://www.lateral-g.net/jackass/DSC_2229.jpg

http://www.lateral-g.net/jackass/DSC_2231.jpg

I would love to get some information on what reared length would be needed to fit the zr1 rims with DSE mini tubs. I'm going with and AMS front sub and DSE rear.
Any info would be great! using factory c6 Z06 calipers

[Bmf5150]

On these high horsepower built supercharged motors,how many gallon capacity intercooler reservoir tank do you use?

[Jr]

On these high horsepower built supercharged motors,how many gallon capacity intercooler reservoir tank do you use?

He doesn’t run a reservoir tank.