What's your thoughts on "Built Not Bought?"

[Brewtal66]

http://www.salzmoto.com/featured-work/built-not-bought-is-bull****/

It's a long read, but a good one. It's talking about the phrase "built not bought" in the motorcycle world; but if you replace motorcycle with car I think it transfers over perfectly.

Is the phrase "built not bought" hurting our industry as well? Personally I think it's cool when a person has built a car themselves. But I don't look down on people that "buy" their car either. If you don't have the skills, and have the money, more power to yah. As long as you're having fun, then heck yah.

I know that if I had the money, I'd definitely have cars built for me.

What are your thoughts?

[Sieg]

The education system has de-emphasized shop skills for years now.......most of the newer generations don't have a choice as they have no mechanical skill whatsoever.

Sad, but true.

The upside is there is a very small niche market for garage builders.

[CRCRFT78]

Good article but like other topics, its subject to everyones opinion. There is no true definition to it. No one should be shamed for buying their cars or bikes instead of building them. Not all of us are capable or talented enough to be able to build what we want. I like the suggested hashtags, #SupportTheIndependants, #BuiltWithFriends, & #BoughtWithPride. I think what we do is more about the relationships we build with others, the friends we make and the journey that goes along with being a car guy/gal. Not debating with our fellow hobbyists about why my car is better than theirs because it was #BuiltNotBought.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Seeing all the fricken death traps out there, I don't give a #%#$# just as long as its done right, safe and your happy with it. :welder:

[70w30]

If a guy can't set his own timing I will think less of him no matter how hot his ride is. To me this hobby is more than buying something. It's the mentality.

It's about building. It's about messing with ****.

I just sold my all original 70 W30 because I COULDN'T mess with it. Yeah, I could have but why do that versus some 6 banger that has minimal comparitive value? Owned it for multiple decades.

The guys that make a "pro touring" car out of a L78 Camaro, a L72 Vette or some other rare car I just shake my head at.

There are two sides to this hobby. Don't cut up a rare car and no one cares about a 327 Camaro.

Build from there.

[ModernMuseum]

If a guy can't set his own timing I will think less of him no matter how hot his ride is. To me this hobby is more than buying something. It's the mentality.

It's about building. It's about messing with ****.

I just sold my all original 70 W30 because I COULDN'T mess with it. Yeah, I could have but why do that versus some 6 banger that has minimal comparitive value? Owned it for multiple decades.

The guys that make a "pro touring" car out of a L78 Camaro, a L72 Vette or some other rare car I just shake my head at.

There are two sides to this hobby. Don't cut up a rare car and no one cares about a 327 Camaro.

Build from there.

Guess what? People can do whatever the hell they want and most people don't give a rats a** what you or anyone else thinks.

I'm the type of guy who would make a "pro-touring car out of an L78 or L72 Vette or some other rare car" and do a burn-out in your drive way just because it would piss you off. Actually, I would have someone else build it, then burn out in your driveway, then set it on fire in the street in front of your house, film it and make an infinitely looping 100 MB .gif and email it to you every day.

Anyway, digressing so the adults can have a discussion, I don't give two fives as long as someone thinks their ride is cool and isn't completely clueless/douche magnet about what they have (e.g. if they bought it that way). Knowledge has gotta start somewhere, and sometimes that might mean buying before embarking blind on a five figure car build.

I find that, as I get older and the 8-5 demands more of me, I don't have the time to spend wrenching like I used to. I will probably eventually just buy another nice pro-touring ride and call it a day. I'll keep a 10 page list of excuses as to why I did it in case I run into the likes of 70w30 so I'll be able to defend myself, because I'm really concerned about what other people think of me.

[Build-It-Break-it]

I think as long as its built safe and with quality in mind it doesn't matter who built it. I've seen first hand shop work that wasn't welded right, put together square, etc etc. And I've seen garage builds were I was scared for people to be on the road with them and vice versa.

Build to the best of your ability and farm out things if needed. Buy one built if time is more important then money and the cars built correct. I won't look down on anyone.

No car is really original or rare anymore if your putting Taiwan replacement sheet metal in place of the original sheet metal. Cut up anything you want and have fun doing it. Things can always be reversed for the purest.

[camcojb]

Personally I wish I was in the position to buy them instead of building them. :thumbsup: If a guy buys a done car that doesn't make him any less of an enthusiast in my eyes.

[Blake Foster]

I don't even get it?
I Build all my stuff,(or our shop does) with Bought parts. so where does that fit in.

show me ONE build where the GUY Built EVERY PART!. if that isn't the case the discussion is worthless.

[camcojb]

I don't even get it?
I Build all my stuff,(or our shop does) with Bought parts. so where does that fit in.

show me ONE build where the GUY Built EVERY PART!. if that isn't the case the discussion is worthless.
Pretty sure Tim wasn't meaning you had to build all your parts too, though you come closer than most. :thumbsup:

[BMR Sales]

Maybe it's a Bike thing, because I have never seen any animosity between builders vs. buyers!

I like to wrench, but I don't want to build my pick-up

I installed every race part on my car, but I didn't weld the cage - I'm not ashamed to have a Pro do their speciality

If Buyers didn't exist there wouldn't be as many builders

I guess what it comes down to for me is it's all part of the Car Culture. I have never been into '30s & '40s Hot Rods, Low-Riders, Stanced Japanese cars, but that does not make my opinion superior to their owners.

[barrrf]

If I had the money, Id totally pay someone to build it exactly how I want it. I know I cannot do everything I want exactly how I want. And there are people that do these things and do them well, and Im not one of them.

Is there a certain amount of pride to be had for being able to say you build everything on your ride? Sure.

[Blake Foster]

Pretty sure Tim wasn't meaning you had to build all your parts too, though you come closer than most. :thumbsup:

but that is what the article is refering to.

[ironworks]

I think it super funny when a Professional shop uses that for a Hashtag. Aren't they making fun of the guy who is paying them to build their car?

I think its awesome when any non professional guy can build something awesome in his garage or what have you that is well built and nice. But a guy that gets to perfect his craft 40 hours a week will always have the advantage.

Alot of the time guy who can afford to build whatever have a pretty demanding workload and their time is better spent paying some one to do a better job if there goal is the end result more then the process. Some guys just like the process and it does not matter the length of the journey.

[JKnight]

Personally I wish I was in the position to buy them instead of building them. :thumbsup: If a guy buys a done car that doesn't make him any less of an enthusiast in my eyes.

Absolutely. I know I suck at "building" my own relative to if I had a pro do it (RS, Ironworks, Speedtech, etc.), but it's the only option I can afford so I have to be happy with the end result (assuming it's safe of course).

Am I somehow better because I "chose" to do it myself? heck no.

[DRJDVM's '69]

For me it comes down to whether the owner even has a clue about the car.... Did he play at least a role in the design, plan, parts used, theme of the car etc.?... If you ask questions about the car can they answer most of them or is it "no idea, the shop/previous owner" did it..

If you don't have the skill or the time, that's one thing... If you basically just wrote the check and have no clue otherwise, my respect level is much lower...

It's like a sports fan... Do you just wear the jersey and have the bumper sticker on your car because you think it's cool... Or can you at least name a few players on the team, and some basic info.

I would love to be in the position to pay a really good pro to build me a car,,, but I could never be the "call when it's done and I'll write you a check" kind of guy

[Che70velle]

Who walks through a show, or a cruise-in, and says to their self, "man this car would be way cooler if it had been built out of a garage", or vise-versa.
The truth is, your typical enthusiast doesn't know, or care who has built the car. He or she simply likes the car or doesn't like the car.

For example, I have a truck that I purpose built in the 90's for ISCA (World Of Wheels) competition. I built the truck in my moms basement, while I was still single, all by my self. I hauled the truck all over the southeast in an enclosed trailer, and won every award that ISCA could offer, from best truck, to best paint, to best of show, and even made Sport Truck, and Truckin' magazines, and I'd bet that not one person ever thought while checking out my ride about a pro shop build vs. garage built. They either liked it, or hated it.

At the end of the day guys, it's a car. Or truck. Or bike...
Who gives a holy rip who built it.

[cluxford]

Most "Built" use bolt in parts.

Or they sub out work

It's rare anyone can do it all themselves

build the engine
build the trans
built the suspension (not just bolt on aftermarket kits)
panel work
paint work
interior work

There is a small group that can do all of that and I am in awe of them. But they are a minority.

But for the rest of us this discussion is mute, we do what we can and get others to do what we can't

[DBasher]

How about the guy that claims they built it when you know darn well they didn't. Years ago I helped a buddy with his 58 Pontiac, mild custom with bellflowers, Watson style scallops all over and some Mooneyes goodies. He got bored with it and traded it off to a dealership. Some ass clown bought it from the dealership, slapped a "street rod" emblem in the grill and told people he did all the work....sure pal!

I've heard the BNB saying in the off-road world as well.....seems the dude who built his bad ass crawler in the garage doesn't like seeing the tastefully modded Defender 90 or new Jeep at the top of the trail. Whatever.

[bret]

If it werent for people BUYING parts...and cars, there would be no reason for anyone BUILDING them.
God bless the buyers.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Guess what? People can do whatever the hell they want and most people don't give a rats a** what you or anyone else thinks.

I'm the type of guy who would make a "pro-touring car out of an L78 or L72 Vette or some other rare car" and do a burn-out in your drive way just because it would piss you off. Actually, I would have someone else build it, then burn out in your driveway, then set it on fire in the street in front of your house, film it and make an infinitely looping 100 MB .gif and email it to you every day.




this gave me a smile..

co-signed.

[Yelcamino]

The epitome of building it! Even though it's a scale model, this guy literally built every single part. If you haven't seen this, it's worth the time.

SeUMDY01uUA

[Wissing72]

A few years back I finished my El Camino, I built the entire car my self. In my garage. I did everything but the paint, I would have done that too if I hadn't burned my self out. It was a nice car. It did alright at the local shows and got lots of attention. It took 6 years. It was a resto-mod. but nothing extreme. I didn't have and still don't have the 40 hours a week to do these, and after I am done fixing everybody else's broken crap all week I don't have it in me to do mine. I like to play with my kids and do yard work.....
I would get irritated at shows when someone would walk up and compliment the car and say "I have more respect for this car because it was built in a garage than having it built by a shop". WTF? The builders started out the same way, small and in their garages, they were able to use their talent and make a living at it. Most of them don't have a trick hot rod of their own in their garage, they don't have time. I had mine done because I wanted it done before I retired, saw kids graduate, etc. They have the time, talent, manpower to make it happen.
Just my tangent....

[MattO]

How is this still a thing?

Seriously. When I first got into mini trucks, this was a huge debate among enthusiasts and I can't believe it's still going. Honestly. Who gives a flying **** about this? Whether built, or bought, they still had to put in the hours and ultimately, it does not matter one single bit. So can we please, for the love of God, put this to rest and all agree that it really doesn't matter or affect us in the least?

[DOOM]

I don't even get it?
I Build all my stuff,(or our shop does) with Bought parts. so where does that fit in.

show me ONE build where the GUY Built EVERY PART!. if that isn't the case the discussion is worthless.

YEA!!!!!!

[booah]

Built, not Bought.

I'm thinking this refers to walking into a show room and buying a bike or car from a dealership and salesman vs something that is different from the norm. Doesn't matter who built it/ changed it.

For those that can't physically build anymore or chose to spend the money they would have spent on tooling to build it themselves and direct it to having someone else do it is a completely personal choice.

I won't like the day I have to pay someone to change my oil or set my timing, but it may come. I'll have to deal.

[camcojb]

It's a good thing there's "buyers" or who would we sell our cars to? :headscratch:

[Brewtal66]

I don't even get it?
I Build all my stuff,(or our shop does) with Bought parts. so where does that fit in.

show me ONE build where the GUY Built EVERY PART!. if that isn't the case the discussion is worthless.

Very true! The article mentions that too...that even custom bike builders are buying parts and assembling a bike. Very few actually bend a frame from scratch, and bend a piece of sheet metal into a gas tank.

I didn't pay anybody to build my Chevelle...but I didn't fabricate and build any of the parts. I bought them all, and assembled.

Just an interesting look at that term, and how bad it really is.

[JB400]

I say as long as the person is enjoying the vehicle or whatever, it doesn't matter how they got it in whatever condition. I will say there is a little prestige and personal satisfaction that you did it yourself instead of buying it. However, if it is bought, I see it as a personal gift for a job well done for being able to buy it in the first place.

[rustomatic]

I blame society! This applies to the following:

1. Paid-for awesome hotrods
2. Fake boobs/butts/faces/stomachs/turkey neck mods/whathaveyou
3. Extended stays at the graybar hotel
4. Wrecking your awesome Ducati at the back of the pack
5. Bitchin' tats that changed meaning (or gravitational reference) over time (tramp stamp, etc.)
6. Jobs you hate (but keep because of good pay or simple convenience)
7. Girlfriends/boyfriends/spouses who are physical accessories
8. Perpetual denial of temptation
9. Financial failure masquerading as success

10. Add more fuel as necessary.

Have fun at your own expense. Create opinions based upon what you know.

It's okay to respect and appreciate an awesome car for what it is, regardless of who built it. If you want one like it, find money and the person who built it, or try to do it on your own, via education, blood, sweat, failure, and little bits of success at a time.

For some, it's fun to have a car that gets ignored or overlooked. For others, it's about being a focal point. Whatever--it's about fun when your brain is seasoned with gasoline.

Cliche, platitude, blah, blah, blah.

[Grnova]

I try to do everything I can but when I come to a point in my build that requires something I cannot do I try to source it out. I would rather have some one who has spent 40 hours or plus a week perfecting his or her skill than try to do it myself. The perks are I do not have to buy the expensive equipment that they already have and do not have to go through the oh **** process. Then there is the bought I love to look at new parts and see how I can incorporate them into my build by modifying them some shape or form. The process of looking at already created parts gives me ideas. So I am for both I don't think one can survive without the other. My 2 cents

[GregWeld]

I blame society! This applies to the following:

1. Paid-for awesome hotrods



I've built perhaps 20 complete cars - some for friends and family... I've enjoyed the builds of my high dollar hot rods just as much or more....



2. Fake boobs/butts/faces/stomachs/turkey neck mods/whathaveyou


Is there something wrong with someone that just wants to look as nice as their car? Do we not enjoy a nice looking woman (or man)?




3. Extended stays at the graybar hotel



Some of us have turned these "stays" around and are the better for it. I can still tell you how many CMU blocks there were in my solitary cell.


4. Wrecking your awesome Ducati at the back of the pack



Everyone learns -- and there are few that are mistake free.....




5. Bitchin' tats that changed meaning (or gravitational reference) over time (tramp stamp, etc.)




Personally I had mine 7th grade "tat" removed.... but I'm still thinking I'd like to have colored flames up at least one arm or leg... I know I'll never do it - but like it when I see 'em.






6. Jobs you hate (but keep because of good pay or simple convenience)



What if you could do a job you hate and retire early?? Would that make it worthwhile?




7. Girlfriends/boyfriends/spouses who are physical accessories



When aren't they sometimes physical accessories?? I've been married 35 years -- together since she was 14 and I was 18 -- I like her being a physical accessory some times. LOL





8. Perpetual denial of temptation






I want a jet bigger than my neighbors and I'm not denying that one bit.








9. Financial failure masquerading as success



Can you spell V I S A card?




10. Add more fuel as necessary.




...... as long as it smells like race gas!







Have fun at your own expense. Create opinions based upon what you know.

It's okay to respect and appreciate an awesome car for what it is, regardless of who built it. If you want one like it, find money and the person who built it, or try to do it on your own, via education, blood, sweat, failure, and little bits of success at a time.

For some, it's fun to have a car that gets ignored or overlooked. For others, it's about being a focal point. Whatever--it's about fun when your brain is seasoned with gasoline.

Cliche, platitude, blah, blah, blah.






I vote republican.... but I'd be willing to post my income tax returns that show I GAVE AWAY (donations) double or triple your gross income last year. Not picking on you personally --- just saying that a person can be a "democratic republican". My wife packs food every other Thursday at the Hunger Coalition where we are most likely also the largest financial donors.... I still drive my pro built hot rod down there to work. :>)

[GregWeld]

I wonder what would happen if we apply the built it bought to our houses?? Or any other thing that's not a hot rod... Is the thinking different then??? It's a rhetorical question.

[BMR Sales]

How about the guy that claims they built it when you know darn well they didn't. Years ago I helped a buddy with his 58 Pontiac, mild custom with bellflowers, Watson style scallops all over and some Mooneyes goodies. He got bored with it and traded it off to a dealership. Some ass clown bought it from the dealership, slapped a "street rod" emblem in the grill and told people he did all the work....sure pal!

I've heard the BNB saying in the off-road world as well.....seems the dude who built his bad ass crawler in the garage doesn't like seeing the tastefully modded Defender 90 or new Jeep at the top of the trail. Whatever.

Same thing applies to Real Estate too. Before I bought the house I live in now, I looked at a House I lost in my Divorce. When I looked at it, the Seller said we did this, we did that, etc - it was all stuff that I did!

[57hemicuda]

Its funny, as long as this stuff has been around, someone always finds something to whine about.

I have probably built at least 20 cars and trucks through the years, some budget, some high end. The thing is, I build them because I want to build them. How they get built is inconsequential, usually it is only my 2 hands that touch my stuff, probably because I enjoy the build so much. If I had someone else building it with my vision, is it less cool, I don't think so.

I learned most of my car building skills out of necessity, in my youth I couldn't afford to pay someone. I still wanted to go fast, so I learned how to rebuild engines, transmissions, rears. I now can afford to pay someone to do these things for me. Yet my love of all things mechanical won't let me.

I find myself this very weekend installing a 383 Roadrunner engine in a 1954 Dodge M37 military truck. Why, when there is an AMX right next to it needing to be finished? Because, that is what I want to do right now!! When the mood hits me , I'll be all over that car, but until then I'm going to do what I want to do.

[dontlifttoshift]

For years and years I have been looking for anyone that did their own root canal......

[Vince@Meanstreets]

My uncle and my grandfather did. They were both dentists. Guess who did all the work on their cars.

My father once told me, you either spend the money to learn how to do it or you spend the money to have someone do it for you.

[dontlifttoshift]

Wait, your Grandfather did his own root canal?!?!?......

[GregWeld]

For years and years I have been looking for anyone that did their own root canal......



Excellent example.

The whole discussion is ridiculous. In my book = if you're in to cars - it's all good. Some guys race - some guys just like to watch the races.... some can do some work - some can't do any of if - who the hell cares.... I don't know sizzle about race suspension - that's why I hire Ron Sutton.... I've built many motors - I wouldn't tackle the motor in my race car... that take a higher degree of skill than I have... I drink water - you drink Bud Light - who cares....

[rustomatic]

The three toilets I've installed in my house work perfectly. My car slides around an autocross course like a rollerskate on ice. I take the blame for both realities. I like to test my own potential for failure, because it makes me considerably angrier to pay to test someone else's...:smiley_smack:

[TheJDMan]

IMO, this whole discussion is mute, you're either a car person or you're not regardless of who built your ride. That said, I find it interesting how often I get ask by strangers if I built my car myself. My standard response is "Does it matter?"

[frankv11]

I say as long as the person is enjoying the vehicle or whatever, it doesn't matter how they got it in whatever condition. I will say there is a little prestige and personal satisfaction that you did it yourself instead of buying it. However, if it is bought, I see it as a personal gift for a job well done for being able to buy it in the first place.

I'm a garage builder and completely agree with the above, nicely put

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I like to test my own potential for failure, because it makes me considerably angrier to pay to test someone else's...:smiley_smack:

That's a destructive way to look at life. Plus if you pay someone and you did your homework failure should not be an option.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I say as long as the person is enjoying the vehicle or whatever, it doesn't matter how they got it in whatever condition. I will say there is a little prestige and personal satisfaction that you did it yourself instead of buying it. However, if it is bought, I see it as a personal gift for a job well done for being able to buy it in the first place.

I'm a garage builder and completely agree with the above, nicely put

:cheers:

[Grnova]

I like to test my own potential for failure, because it makes me considerably angrier to pay to test someone else's...
^^Truth^^

[proper]

I build as much of the car as I can and tell myself not to be scared to spend the smart money on the places that it needs to be spent on.If it's lack of tools or skill,I want to make sure the end result is what I want not ,well that's the best I could do.If There was no place for the enthusiast who buys what they like for a car then I would have never been able to build a third or fourth project.As for a car built in a shop by pros, they should be able to help the owner in decisions with what works well in regards with what he intends to use his car for and that can save you a lot of heartache and money in the long run.You don't have to be able to tell me about all the nuts and bolts of your car to have me appreciate the fact we're both out at the same place at the same time enjoying life.Sorry about being so long winded but with this subject ,one needs the other.

[Vegas69]

Who the hell am I to judge somebody else because they don't see things from the same perspective as me? Maybe they adopted 4 kids, take care of their parents, volunteer for charities and don't have time to build a car. My opinion, being consumed by judging others is toxic. (I know this from experience)

[Bryan O]

^^ isn't that being judgmental? :headscratch:

[GregWeld]

^^ isn't that being judgmental? :headscratch:

No -- It's just his OPINION.... Opinions aren't the same as being judgmental.. Judgmental is saying so and so is an idiot for doing such and such... and you won't ever see much of that kind of stuff going on here at Lat G.... well.... unless it's friends giving each other a hard time. Such as my posted response to Paul (RustedUPAutomatic -- LOL)

[rustomatic]

I just figured out how to make Greg Weld provide a partial autobiography in less than 60 words. Judge that!

Seriously, can't we just simplify here? We all at least begin with a car somebody else built, unless you're Ron$5000.00Mustang, in which case you actually did build everything. I'd love to have Ron's skills in car building, but I never will--that's cool. Ron is a hotrodgod--be it adjudged.

Let's challenge the robots that assembled the Honda my wife drives to work every day! They don't even get paid!

[57hemicuda]

Well damn, I thought it was only the ladies that thought I was a God. LOL:lmao:

Been building cars like most of us here, since I was 16. Have enjoyed most of the builds, and kind of back off when it ceases to be fun. Some days I
wish I'd taken up golf, but I'll have to settle for being a massive stud, and hobby car builder.LOL

[DavidBoren]

Being a tinker-er, or one that partakes in "tinkering", I enjoy/respect/like seeing the ingenuity involved in do-it-yourself garage-type builds.

When I was a kid, I got into paintball pretty hardcore. But I was poor. My friends were poor. We had poor-people equipment. Brass Eagle plastic cheap inefficient markers were our standard, with run-of-the-mill base model Spyders or Tippmanns being our "nice" markers.

For anyone who doesn't paintball, base model Spyders and Tippmanns are field rental markers, they aren't good at anything except not breaking. Reliability being their only strong point, they waste gas, chop paint, are inaccurate and inconsistent.

Anyways, I joined a forum dedicated to Brass Eagle enthusiasts, back when the internet was born (in an age of dot-matrix printers and floppy disks and aol). I learned to dremel the everlasting p!ss out of my plastic markers, modifying cheap and generic markers with ace hardware parts and hose clamps and 2-ton epoxy.

I made my all $30 plastic mechanical semi-auto StingrayII outclass electro-pneumatic billet aluminum E-grip fully automatic $1400 Angels.

And you are d@mn right that I was d@mn proud knowing that I built my marker at 4am with a dremel and some JB weld.

All that being said, I think built not bought is a race track thing, not a car show thing. Beating the latest and greatest BMW or Porsche in a POS F-body that you built with your dad or son or friends in your garage for a fraction of what said BMW/Porsche costs is something to be proud of.

At a car show, if it looks nice, it doesn't matter who or how it was built. But car shows don't matter. The race track, or more specifically the results from the race track, are what matters. Oh, and if you're having fun, and all that hippie jazz about butterflies and bunnies and enjoying life, or whatever.

[Panteracer]

I feel that if you spend the time to build it you know
what your really have.. I don't know how many times
someone says it has this much hp etc but could not
tell you any of the parts inside....I have let my cars
slowly change so I can keep driving them.. it also lets
me know what works and what does not

Even when I have people over helping I have a
hard time not doing it all myself.. my buddies say
I need to go to a meeting:)

That being said I don't weld yet or do any paint work
Just not there yet.. maybe some day
I do respect someone that has them built but spends
a lot of time with the planning and build... I just have
an issue with checkbook no nothings... but that's just me

Bob

[rustomatic]

Bob, I think that "meeting" takes place at the racetrack.

I'm on the verge of completely starting over again on the Falcon. The Falcon basically exists for the purchase of my first welder (about four years ago)--which has gone okay for the most part, but not without a ton of frustration. I'd wanted to try welding for about 15 years or so before I did. Just trying provided a huge sense of freedom in doing the hotrod thing (as do YouTube videos).

Part of the Falcon's impending clean slate (90% sure it's happening) will include finally buying a good welder, instead of the Eastwood P.O.S. MIG I've been futzing (learning) with for the last few years. I guess I'm into process...

That said, I'll never make anything as nice as your Pantera. I just carry too much dirt around...

I feel that if you spend the time to build it you know
what your really have.. I don't know how many times
someone says it has this much hp etc but could not
tell you any of the parts inside....I have let my cars
slowly change so I can keep driving them.. it also lets
me know what works and what does not

Even when I have people over helping I have a
hard time not doing it all myself.. my buddies say
I need to go to a meeting:)

That being said I don't weld yet or do any paint work
Just not there yet.. maybe some day
I do respect someone that has them built but spends
a lot of time with the planning and build... I just have
an issue with checkbook no nothings... but that's just me

Bob

[DavidBoren]

Part of it is, I don't trust people. So I like to do things myself. That way I know the quality of assembly, the parts used, the fit and finish of the finished product is my success or failure, and its degree of success or failure is my fault and mine alone.

However, there are things I just cannot do as well as the people who do just that. Porting heads, for example. I don't have a problem taking the dremel to a set of factory heads, just to clean up ports or do some gasket matching... but I'm not going to try my hand at "touching up" some AFR's or Trick Flows. Plus, me not knowing what I am doing, and not being in a position in my life that I could equip myself with the proper tools to test if what I am doing is actually beneficial, I would probably do more harm than good.

But I am not afraid to build my own frame or wiring harness. Body work and sheetmetal aren't my strong point, but I will try to do it myself when I get to that point. If I mess it up, whatever, it's just metal, it can be fixed or replaced by someone better than me.

Suspension design is something that I am going to leave to the professionals who excell in that field... and by "the professionals" I of course mean THE professional who excels in that field, Mr. Ron Sutton. I like to go fast, and if I try design my own suspension and don't get it right, I have created an unnecessary dangerous situation for everybody around me, and that's not something that I am willing to do.

[Flash68]

but I'll have to settle for being a massive stud, and hobby car builder.LOL

:lmao:

[Panteracer]

Rustomatic I am going to go down
that welding path soon. I agree that doing
it yourself gives you a sense of satisfaction
and also freedom. I also have the trust issue but
cannot do some things that well I never did
brakes until recently ( figured that was a safety
thing I did not want to screw up).
Messed that up before thunderhill but fixed it later

Pantera was way over board but I still beat on it
Firebird was a rust bucket that I brought back to life
and a car I will never sell. I have to work on it more
to try to get it like the Pantera but that challenge
is what makes it fun

Bob

[Twoblackmarks...]

The Firebird I have now, I have bought "finished" or should I say driveable. There was and still is a ton of stuff to either redo, fix or change out... Some of it because of poor solutions.. But I knew that when I bought it, it was a good buy, even though the lists grows everytime I use or wrench on it..

But because most of the "big stuff" is done, or atleast bought and mounted by the previous owner, I still dont have the feel that this is "my car" since I have not done it myself, I am more or less stuck sorting it out, and fixing the errors, not buidling it.

It lacks a bit of that personal feeling,
for the moment it is "just a car" not "my car".

[Panteracer]

I had a mustang for a while that was done
Or I thought. I tweaked a few things but I
also felt like it was not really my car

I have had my firebird for over 27 years now
and it is truly my car even more so than my Pantera
I am changing some things on it now for the second
or even the third time. My old trusty 4 row radiator
is finally getting replaced with a new alum 2 row and a
pair of sucker fans. It has served me well but it is old
and tired and cannot keep up with the new high hp Motor

Bob

[Black93GT]

I'm with David. I'll attempt most anything but leave the safety sensitive items to the pro's.

I find some crap isn't always worth the time and effort, but I prefer to have it done the exact way I want it. I can find and fix other issues that could be near by. I can pin point every rattle squeak and tap because I've been there... top to bottom.

[srh3trinity]

It was a pretty easy decision for me. I have the capability to do a bolt on car. My build goals are beyond that of a bolt on car, so I was going to have to send it to somebody anyway. The other side of it is, I work 60-80 hours consistently and have two young kids and a wife that I adore. I can't justify spending any more time away from them than I already do. We have all had the phone call from a child that is asking when their dad is coming home that day. So, that entered into my decision making process and once I started writing the check and seeing how much faster it is going in the builders hands, it validated my decision. I, in turn, invest that time I would have spent in the shop in being with my family.

You also have to look at the value of your time. I can make more doing my chosen vocation than it costs me per hour of work at the shop I chose. Any extra shifts I pull pay for parts and shop time at a faster clip than if I was out there turning the wrenches myself.

As far as involvement in the build, I visit the car/shop between once and twice a month. Sometimes to see the car, others just to catch up or have a planning session. My builder and I text back and forth weekly just to keep up on where we are and what is coming next. For the most part, the builder lets me make the call unless I am going the wrong direction and then I lean back on his expertise. I picked the motor, the suspension, the transmission, the wheels, the tires, the seats, etc.

So, I will have a "bought" car, but it will be more in line with what I wanted in the first place and I will have been very involved in the process of building it. One day, I will probably do a bolt-ons C10 or some other car with paint and body already done. I guess that one will be "built." There are a number of other cars I would like to do down the road and I want to add to my skillset and learn how to MIG and TIG, assemble my own engine, and maybe even learn to do a little paint and body, but for me to haver undertaken all of that in one build would have made it a ten year project.

[DavidBoren]

I believe it was Voltaire who said we must first define our terms. And given that the statement in question is a qualitative, not quantitative, it's entirely based in opinion, and everyone has a different idea of what qualities as "built" and "bought". The whole discussion is null and void without a common or agreed upon set of conditions.

That being said, I still believe that it is a matter of how much you know. Someone brought it up that you're either a car guy, or you're not... if it has to be explained, then you're probably not.

Even the most glorious, elaborate builds are based on a car body/frame that a factory built and "builder" bought. Nobody casts their own blocks or forges their own cranks, so the whole argument is pointless.

What it comes down to is how much YOU know about YOUR car.

[John510]

I don't have the ability to build a "high quality" car so I hire other people to build it for me. I do know every single piece on my car though and I have some mechanical ability but as far as replacing metal and doing bodywork that is not something I can nor would I attempt doing. Leave that to the pros.

[rickpaw]

In our local Firebird group, there are 2 types of owners. The ones that do not how to wrench on cars nor have the time, but have the resources to have it done. The 2nd group of owners are the ones that like to tinker/work on their cars; either they want to or don't have the resources to hire someone else to do the work. At the end, we all share the same passion-classic cars and that's all that matters, regardless whether it's built or bought.

And then there's the 3rd group, the ones that says "I spent so and so much $$$ on my ride, and therefore it's better than yours". Those don't belong to our group.

[Flash68]

In our local Firebird group, there are 2 types of owners. The ones that do not how to wrench on cars nor have the time, but have the resources to have it done. The 2nd group of owners are the ones that like to tinker/work on their cars; either they want to or don't have the resources to hire someone else to do the work. At the end, we all share the same passion-classic cars and that's all that matters, regardless whether it's built or bought.

And then there's the 3rd group, the ones that says "I spent so and so much $$$ on my ride, and therefore it's better than yours". Those don't belong to our group.

Right on Tu :cheers:

[Panteracer]

My Pantera group has tech sessions
where we get together and help the ones that
have not turned a wrench. We make them get
in there and do some of the work. It also helps
us with a pool of knowledge on things that are
unique to our cars. Of course Detomaso never let
anything go to waste so some cars have old and
New designs on them

Good bonding for all of us and a great way to
get more of these cars on the road where they belong

Bob

[FaBrycation]

I am in full support of people loving their car. If it means that the one you love and dream of is for sale, by all means go for your dream.

I am also for the "built not bought" side as well because it is going to keep builders and fabricators like me in business for a long time. Car building is becoming a dying art as the generations get older. Outside of work I know very few young guys that are in to cars for any more than a method to get to work. I am only 28 and I see this. It saddens and baffles me because I can't even imagine how that is a mindset.

With that being said, Car guys are my favorite kind of people and if you buy or build I can stand with any of you and be proud to be apart of such a great industry and hobby with such great people from all areas of the spectrum. I will always support building but there are plenty of cars that I would just buy. My ultimate dream car is a bone stock 69 mach1 428CJ or Boss 429 mustang. If I ever could I would just buy it.

[dontlifttoshift]

http://i.imgur.com/JLLydit.jpg

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/52960445.jpg

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Nice Donny, LOL

Bryce you are not kidding. I've been looking for a fabricator for a long time. Seasoned, entry level what ever. There is no one to be found in my area. All the good guys are 40+ and want a lot of $$$. The young guys wanna learn then go to higher paying shops. I remember when I was 16...willing to sweep floors and clean toilets to work at a muscle car modification shop.

[GregWeld]

willing to sweep floors and clean toilets to work at a muscle car modification shop.

You're still doing that aren't you??

[SlowProgress]

:popcorn2: :popcorn2: :popcorn2:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

You're still doing that aren't you??

more than you think....and still enjoy it. :relax:

[BBBluey]

Nice Donny, LOL

Bryce you are not kidding. I've been looking for a fabricator for a long time. Seasoned, entry level what ever. There is no one to be found in my area. All the good guys are 40+ and want a lot of $$$. The young guys wanna learn then go to higher paying shops. I remember when I was 16...willing to sweep floors and clean toilets to work at a muscle car modification shop.

I'd work for free to learn from you.

I don't care if they bought it or built it, I'm just a jealous hater cuz it's not mine. :guns: Especially if they got it through "Overhaulin". :)

[Norm Peterson]

Got me why this old topic came up in the recent Lateral-g newsletter . . . but it seems to be frowning as much on the "built" side as much as it's claiming the builders are doing to the buyers. I haven't read this whole thread, but at least initially . . . "pot, meet kettle".

As a DIY'er about lots of things (not just the automotive stuff), I think the folks who aren't involved at all in the physical parts of the build are missing out. For example - when you're all done with your engine assembly (major machining is past my depth) and you're standing on that "thrill of victory/agony of defeat" moment as you turn the key to crank that engine for the first time, it's different when it's your own work that's on the line. Even more so when it's not your day job to do that sort of thing.

There's satisfaction to be had from figuring out how to make something fit, overcoming other little snags, or doing something unusual or unique that in the end, works. That's a kind of satisfaction that a 'buyer' isn't going to have (and may not even truly understand).


Norm

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Got me why this old topic came up in the recent Lateral-g newsletter . . . but it seems to be frowning as much on the "built" side as much as it's claiming the builders are doing to the buyers. I haven't read this whole thread, but at least initially . . . "pot, meet kettle".

As a DIY'er about lots of things (not just the automotive stuff), I think the folks who aren't involved at all in the physical parts of the build are missing out. For example - when you're all done with your engine assembly (major machining is past my depth) and you're standing on that "thrill of victory/agony of defeat" moment as you turn the key to crank that engine for the first time, it's different when it's your own work that's on the line. Even more so when it's not your day job to do that sort of thing.

There's satisfaction to be had from figuring out how to make something fit, overcoming other little snags, or doing something unusual or unique that in the end, works. That's a kind of satisfaction that a 'buyer' isn't going to have (and may not even truly understand).


Norm

well said. We love to tinker.

i agree but i think its more a problem when others rub the fact that some one bought and didn't build thing that's going on.

[Blackhawk]

I guess I interpret the phrase a bit differently than some of the others who have responded here, but I don't think there is any malice in the phrase (despite the fact that some use it to belittle others who did pay for their car to be built by a shop).
It seems the popular opinion here is that it's a phrase primarily used to shame those who buy their cars already built or have a shop do the work for them.

And I don't really think that's the case, I think it is instead just a sign of people having pride in their own work (even if that only involves assembling parts from a catalog).
I would agree that it's a silly phrase when it's being used by a guy who thinks his car is "built" when all he did was swap out an air intake and put on some new wheels.

But there are many people here who extensively plan out their own build, learn to weld, do their own bodywork and paint, and more. I'm sure some will disagree, but to me that is a great personal accomplishment that's not quite achieved when someone else is doing it for you.

[cluxford]

The newsletter article however asks an interesting question. Is built running the hobby. The key part to that question is the use of the term hobby.

I haven't seen anyone define the term.

If your hobby is driving the wheels off a car then your hobby does not really factor how the car got created (built or bought).
If your hobby is fabrication, construction, engineering etc then you are likely a builder. I've seen guys on here who build then sell and put less than 100 miles on a car they've built. Clearly for them building is the hobby.

The article and this thread are intentionally provocative and completely subjective.

Everyone's hobby (by their own definition) is different and it's place in their personal priorities is different.

We may as well argue over which are the hottest women, redheads, blondes or brunettes.

[Firebirdsteve]

Blondes!...er Red...er Brunettes...oh fu#@!!!

[flomofo]

I read the article and figured most normal people do both out of necessity.

[DOOM]

I can't believe this thread is still going on!!:catfight: :BlahBlah: