Need Fabrication Consultant - 71 Javelin Road Race/Street Legal Project

[bulletpruf]

Fellas -

I'm in need of some help with a stalled project - a 71 Javelin street/road race project. It's been sitting in storage for the past 2 years; I'm active duty Army and have been stationed in Korea. Moving to Italy (Naples) this summer; will be there for 2-3 years. Plan to bring the car with me; have an extensive tool collection and will have a place to work on it, but this is my first road race car build and I'm in need of advice and guidance with piecing it all together.

I don't have a license for wheel to wheel racing and I'm not ready for it yet, but thought I would build something that would be legal (or close to it) for NASA American Iron. Also want it to be street legal, but I really do not need any creature comforts - don't need carpet, A/C, heater, radio, or anything like that.

Here's where I am:

Started off with a rust free low mile California 1971 Javelin.

Full cage by Piper Motorsports in Sterling, VA.

Added a NASCAR type full floater 9" with a TrueTrac diff and 1* negative camber from Speedway Engineering. It sits on custom fiberglass leaf springs.

Front suspension is mostly stock, but plan to run coil overs with boxed LCA's, have stock UCA's now but will probably custom adjustable UCA's.

I built a pump gas friendly 401 with a wet sump road race pan, custom flat tappet cam, aluminum heads - close to 500 hp.

Transmission is a T10 close ratio 4 sp. Lakewood bell housing. Dual disc clutch.

Wilwoods front (13") and rear (11.75").

I'm looking for help nailing down a general plan on what to attack in what order. Then I'll need some fabrication advice on how to make that happen. Right now, I really don't need something that's optimized. I'm looking for simplicity and function. I can upgrade at a later date.

Any thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks!

Scott

[DBasher]

It sounds like you have all the goodies already, put the pile of parts together and go wheel the thing!
If it were me, I'd figure out what to do on the front end and put it all together. It sounds like the front suspension is the only hang up....reinforce the stock set up and get it going and figure what needs to be done from there.
Sounds like a great project and from the list of other cars you own you know what you're doing. :thumbsup:
:ttiwop:

[Sieg]

Two words: Ron Sutton

[bulletpruf]

It sounds like you have all the goodies already, put the pile of parts together and go wheel the thing!
If it were me, I'd figure out what to do on the front end and put it all together. It sounds like the front suspension is the only hang up....reinforce the stock set up and get it going and figure what needs to be done from there.
Sounds like a great project and from the list of other cars you own you know what you're doing. :thumbsup:
:ttiwop:

Here's a picture of it from a few years before I bought it. It's a fairly rare car - originally 401 and loaded - P/S, PDB, A/C, auto, console, luggage rack, etc. I found it in Woodbridge, VA on Craigslist. Was a stalled project at that point. Think I paid $3,000 for it and got lots of extra parts. Sold the extras that I didn't need for $3,000 so it was actually a "free' car at one point.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/71%20Javelin/javelin.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/71%20Javelin/javelin.jpg.html)

And here's what it looked like recently.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/71%20Javelin/IMG00073-20110828-1832.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/71%20Javelin/IMG00073-20110828-1832.jpg.html)

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/71%20Javelin/Parts016.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/71%20Javelin/Parts016.jpg.html)

9" full floater, 1* negative camber, 3.50 gear, TrueTrac diff, 11.75" Wilwoods, etc.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/71%20Javelin/100_2153.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/71%20Javelin/100_2153.jpg.html)

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/71%20Javelin/100_2216.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/71%20Javelin/100_2216.jpg.html)

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/71%20Javelin/100_2361.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/71%20Javelin/100_2361.jpg.html)

Custom UCA next to the stock UCA.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/71%20Javelin/2B821FA8-F5D5-460F-9DE0-D2213F3A8246_1_zpsd15ad146.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/71%20Javelin/2B821FA8-F5D5-460F-9DE0-D2213F3A8246_1_zpsd15ad146.jpg.html)

Boxed stock LCA's (no pun intended)

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/71%20Javelin/100_2366.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/71%20Javelin/100_2366.jpg.html)

Firewall - closed up unnecessary holes.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/71%20Javelin/100_4897.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/71%20Javelin/100_4897.jpg.html)

Cage

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/71%20Javelin/IMG_2328.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/71%20Javelin/IMG_2328.jpg.html)

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/71%20Javelin/100_4909.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/71%20Javelin/100_4909.jpg.html)

Here's the 401 - bored .030, balanced, unported Edelbrock heads, single plane intake, shorty headers, custom flat tappet from Harold Brookshire.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/71%20Javelin/100_5037.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/71%20Javelin/100_5037.jpg.html)

Front brakes - believe rotors are 13". Originally designed/used on f-body.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/71%20Javelin/IMG_0581.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/71%20Javelin/IMG_0581.jpg.html)

[bulletpruf]

It sounds like you have all the goodies already, put the pile of parts together and go wheel the thing!
If it were me, I'd figure out what to do on the front end and put it all together. It sounds like the front suspension is the only hang up....reinforce the stock set up and get it going and figure what needs to be done from there.
Sounds like a great project and from the list of other cars you own you know what you're doing. :thumbsup:
:ttiwop:

Yeah, the intent is to get it going, but still have several things that need done that will take some time - fabbing a dash, dash bar, installing pedals (hang from dash bar), bodywork and paint, installing custom steering column, wiring, plumbing, etc.

I know what I'm doing on a restoration, but not so much when it comes to fabrication. I have a nice drill press, Miller 211, oxy/acetlyne setup, grinders, press, vise, band saw, etc, but my fab experience is limited.

[bulletpruf]

Two words: Ron Sutton

Spoke with Ron earlier today. Will probably end up working with him later on, but right now, I need help with more basic stuff, as detailed above.

Thanks,

Scott

[Vince@Meanstreets]

That sounds like an easy job. Too bad I don't like Korean food I'd give a hand.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Let's get a full list of the stuff you need done.

We can help you put it in order then we can see what your up against.

[bulletpruf]

That sounds like an easy job. Too bad I don't like Korean food I'd give a hand.

No worries if you don't like kimchee; I'm looking for e mail/phone consultation. Plan to do the work myself.

Thanks

Scott

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Haaaa haaaa right on.

I can actually tolerate Kimchee


Let's see that list.

[bulletpruf]

Here are the significant items on the punch list:

-Break in engine on test stand. I've got this.

-Install engine and transmission. No problem here.

-Install coil over shocks. Need to order these; someone makes these for the Javelin. If they're still in production, that's not an issue.

-Install steering column, secure to firewall. Figure I'll go with an aftermarket piece.

-Weld in a dash bar on the cage. I've got a Miller 211 MIG, but limited experience.

-Install brake and clutch pedals. Intend to hang these from the dash bar.

-Fabricate a dash. Suppose I could always install a factory dash and install my gauges in it, but would much prefer to go with something fabricated that doesn't look cobbled together.

-Order new leaf springs. The custom composite ones on the car now have too much arch; lowering blocks won't get it low enough.

-Order new rear wheels (17x9; running 245/40/17 tires); ones on the car don't have enough backspace.

-Scrape undercoating off underside of the car and paint.

-Determine whether or not I need to weld in subframe connectors.

-Bodywork and paint. I'll handle this; car is very solid, but front fenders will need some hammer and dolly work from older repairs.

-Figure out grille/nose. Factory grille is a very expensive, very large plastic POS. NOS ones go for well over $1,000. I think I want to do something custom that has the same look.

-Fab up new valve covers or add breathers to mine.

-Figure out clutch - manual or hydraulic actuation?

-Wiring.

-Plumbing.

-Brake cooling.

-Front and rear tow eyes.

And a few thousand little things...

Thanks,

Scott

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Here are the significant items on the punch list:

-Break in engine on test stand. I've got this.

-Install engine and transmission. No problem here.

-Install coil over shocks. Need to order these; someone makes these for the Javelin. If they're still in production, that's not an issue.

-Install steering column, secure to firewall. Figure I'll go with an aftermarket piece.

-Weld in a dash bar on the cage. I've got a Miller 211 MIG, but limited experience.

-Install brake and clutch pedals. Intend to hang these from the dash bar.

-Fabricate a dash. Suppose I could always install a factory dash and install my gauges in it, but would much prefer to go with something fabricated that doesn't look cobbled together.

-Order new leaf springs. The custom composite ones on the car now have too much arch; lowering blocks won't get it low enough.

-Order new rear wheels (17x9; running 245/40/17 tires); ones on the car don't have enough backspace.

-Scrape undercoating off underside of the car and paint.

-Determine whether or not I need to weld in subframe connectors.

-Bodywork and paint. I'll handle this; car is very solid, but front fenders will need some hammer and dolly work from older repairs.

-Figure out grille/nose. Factory grille is a very expensive, very large plastic POS. NOS ones go for well over $1,000. I think I want to do something custom that has the same look.

-Fab up new valve covers or add breathers to mine.

-Figure out clutch - manual or hydraulic actuation?

-Wiring.

-Plumbing.

-Brake cooling.

-Front and rear tow eyes.

And a few thousand little things...

Thanks,

Scott

you meant this summer right? Triage.....do the things you need done now and hope you have a facility to work in over in IT.

-Fab up new valve covers or add breathers to mine. Fab takes time, money and skill. Take the easy route. Moroso makes bolt in AN fittings.

-Break in engine on test stand. I've got this. Git er done

-Install engine and transmission. No problem here. Git er done

-Install coil over shocks. Need to order these; someone makes these for the Javelin. If they're still in production, that's not an issue. for the front? Ridetechs

-Install steering column, secure to firewall. Figure I'll go with an aftermarket piece. After market column but use the factory firewall plate.

-Weld in a dash bar on the cage. I've got a Miller 211 MIG, but limited experience. dash bar, practice your fish mouths and weld up scrap.

-Install brake and clutch pedals. Intend to hang these from the dash bar. Git er done

-Fabricate a dash. Suppose I could always install a factory dash and install my gauges in it, but would much prefer to go with something fabricated that doesn't look cobbled together. not sure of your skill set

-Order new leaf springs. The custom composite ones on the car now have too much arch; lowering blocks won't get it low enough. Git er done

-Order new rear wheels (17x9; running 245/40/17 tires); ones on the car don't have enough backspace. Git er done

-Scrape undercoating off underside of the car and paint. This can wait, rule of thumb, unless you are doing a full on show car just remove the stuff thats falling off or hiding rust. If its hard to take off leaving it on.

-Determine whether or not I need to weld in subframe connectors. Do it, weld em in.

-Figure out grille/nose. Factory grille is a very expensive, very large plastic POS. NOS ones go for well over $1,000. I think I want to do something custom that has the same look. Fix up the original nose and make a grille out of steel mesh or grating?

-Bodywork and paint. I'll handle this; car is very solid, but front fenders will need some hammer and dolly work from older repairs. later

-Figure out clutch - manual or hydraulic actuation? What trans and bellhousing?

-Wiring. How bad is the stock harness? clean up and re loom?

-Plumbing. How bad?

-Brake cooling. later

-Front and rear tow eyes. later

[bulletpruf]

RESPONSES IN ALL CAPS. SORRY FOR "YELLING."

you meant this summer right? Triage.....do the things you need done now and hope you have a facility to work in over in IT. WILL BE A FEW MONTHS. I'M STILL IN KOREA. HEADED TO ITALY IN JUNE. CAR WILL FOLLOW IN JULY OR AUGUST. I'LL HAVE A GARAGE AT HOME IN ITALY, WELL-STOCKED WITH HAND AND POWER TOOLS. WILL ALSO HAVE ACCESS TO A SHOP ON BASE WITH LIFTS.

-Fab up new valve covers or add breathers to mine. Fab takes time, money and skill. Take the easy route. Moroso makes bolt in AN fittings. OK.

-Break in engine on test stand. I've got this. Git er done

-Install engine and transmission. No problem here. Git er done

-Install coil over shocks. Need to order these; someone makes these for the Javelin. If they're still in production, that's not an issue. for the front? Ridetechs YES, FOR THE FRONT. DON'T SEE THAT RIDETECH MAKES ANY FOR AMC. THINK ONLY OPTIONS ARE WSC OR FREAKRIDE.

-Install steering column, secure to firewall. Figure I'll go with an aftermarket piece. After market column but use the factory firewall plate.

-Weld in a dash bar on the cage. I've got a Miller 211 MIG, but limited experience. dash bar, practice your fish mouths and weld up scrap.

-Install brake and clutch pedals. Intend to hang these from the dash bar. Git er done

-Fabricate a dash. Suppose I could always install a factory dash and install my gauges in it, but would much prefer to go with something fabricated that doesn't look cobbled together. not sure of your skill set I CAN HANDLE THIS WITH SOME GUIDANCE.

-Order new leaf springs. The custom composite ones on the car now have too much arch; lowering blocks won't get it low enough. Git er done

-Order new rear wheels (17x9; running 245/40/17 tires); ones on the car don't have enough backspace. Git er done

-Scrape undercoating off underside of the car and paint. This can wait, rule of thumb, unless you are doing a full on show car just remove the stuff thats falling off or hiding rust. If its hard to take off leaving it on.

-Determine whether or not I need to weld in subframe connectors. Do it, weld em in. OK WASN'T SURE WHETHER OR NOT I NEEDED THESE SINCE I HAVE A FULL CAGE.

-Figure out grille/nose. Factory grille is a very expensive, very large plastic POS. NOS ones go for well over $1,000. I think I want to do something custom that has the same look. Fix up the original nose and make a grille out of steel mesh or grating? OK.

-Bodywork and paint. I'll handle this; car is very solid, but front fenders will need some hammer and dolly work from older repairs. later ALREADY STRIPPED TO BARE METAL (COATED TO KEEP FROM RUSTING) AND IN NEED OF A FAIR AMOUNT OF WORK TO GET THEM STRAIGHT. I CAN HANDLE THIS BUT WILL PUT IT LOW ON THE PRIORITY LIST.

-Figure out clutch - manual or hydraulic actuation? What trans and bellhousing? AMC CLOSE RATIO T10 4 SP; LAKEWOOD BLOWPROOF STEEL BELLHOUSING. ANY MORE THOUGHTS HERE?

-Wiring. How bad is the stock harness? clean up and re loom? A BIT MANGLED, BUT COULD USE IT. THINK I WOULD PREFER TO GO WITH A CUSTOM DESIGNED HARNESS SINCE I DON'T EXPECT TO BE USING MUCH IF ANY OF THE FACTORY POWER ACCESSORIES BESIDES THE LIGHTS.

-Plumbing. How bad? JUST BRAKES; CAN PROBABLY USE THE REAR BRAKE LINES, BUT WILL NEED NEW HARD AND/OR BRAIDED LINES IN THE FRONT.

-Brake cooling. later

-Front and rear tow eyes. later

THANKS FOR THE DETAILED RESPONSE.

[Sieg]

THANKS FOR THE DETAILED RESPONSE.
Good detail up front gets good advice........well done.

Vince is good..........real good, and one of the more generous and helpful individuals I know. :thumbsup:

[Solid LT1]

I don't know if you speak fluent Italian but, there should be plenty of specialty fabricators in Pasta Land who might be able to help you out. I know a guy from the Corvette Forum......Aldo, he has a 1968 Corvette with an L-88 motor he drives in Italy. You can PM or Email me and I can try to get you 2 guys together. The big factor ai would think is what kind of gauges you would want.....individual gauges or an integrated Racetech or Stack type of information center. This should be a decision made before dash design is implemented.

[bulletpruf]

I don't know if you speak fluent Italian but, there should be plenty of specialty fabricators in Pasta Land who might be able to help you out. I know a guy from the Corvette Forum......Aldo, he has a 1968 Corvette with an L-88 motor he drives in Italy. You can PM or Email me and I can try to get you 2 guys together. The big factor ai would think is what kind of gauges you would want.....individual gauges or an integrated Racetech or Stack type of information center. This should be a decision made before dash design is implemented.

I don't speak much Italian yet, but have studied French, Spanish, and Latin, so it should be fairly easy to pick up.

Good point on the gauges.

Sent you a pm.

Thanks

Scott

[GregWeld]

I did an international fireworks competition in Seoul - set up on barges in the Han river..... The Kimchee isn't bad -- it was the "roasted snails" and the long drop toilets that were hard to get used to.... LOL

[CurtiSS 69]

Fellas -

I'm in need of some help with a stalled project - a 71 Javelin street/road race project. It's been sitting in storage for the past 2 years; I'm active duty Army and have been stationed in Korea. Moving to Italy (Naples) this summer; will be there for 2-3 years. Plan to bring the car with me; have an extensive tool collection and will have a place to work on it, but this is my first road race car build and I'm in need of advice and guidance with piecing it all together.

I don't have a license for wheel to wheel racing and I'm not ready for it yet, but thought I would build something that would be legal (or close to it) for NASA American Iron. Also want it to be street legal, but I really do not need any creature comforts - don't need carpet, A/C, heater, radio, or anything like that.

Here's where I am:

Started off with a rust free low mile California 1971 Javelin.

Full cage by Piper Motorsports in Sterling, VA.

Added a NASCAR type full floater 9" with a TrueTrac diff and 1* negative camber from Speedway Engineering. It sits on custom fiberglass leaf springs.

Front suspension is mostly stock, but plan to run coil overs with boxed LCA's, have stock UCA's now but will probably custom adjustable UCA's.

I built a pump gas friendly 401 with a wet sump road race pan, custom flat tappet cam, aluminum heads - close to 500 hp.

Transmission is a T10 close ratio 4 sp. Lakewood bell housing. Dual disc clutch.

Wilwoods front (13") and rear (11.75").

I'm looking for help nailing down a general plan on what to attack in what order. Then I'll need some fabrication advice on how to make that happen. Right now, I really don't need something that's optimized. I'm looking for simplicity and function. I can upgrade at a later date.

Any thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks!

Scott

Hello Scott,

Someone here has built an AI Javelin. I don't think he has posted much lately, but you could contact him through his blog: http://asifnyc.com

It will be good to see another AI Javelin on the track & on the street.

Regards

CurtiSS 69

[asifnyc]

Hey Scott,

couple of comments... first, NAPLES???!! you're supposed to be moving to CALI! what's the hold up??? :) although it will be amazing if you finish the Javelin and do a track day at Monza!

second, don't know if you ever saw the video I made of the dash I built for my car? it's just a few pieces of aluminum rivited together. weighs nothing and gets the job done. don't know if you're looking for a less home brew style?

http://asifnyc.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/shift_light_accel_pedal.jpg

eweDzegVplE

[Solid LT1]

Like I told the guys running the Pontiac motored Trans Ams and AMC Javelins one year at the Monterey Historics, I have nothing but the greatest respect for the guys running the "othermobiles" Camaros and Mustangs are a "piece of cake" compared to running one of these (although a $3K timing cover to run Holley Domiantor IR carbs on a 69 Boss isn't any cakewalk...)

Nice project, I always loved the fender lines on those AMC 2nd gens...right out of the T/A 'cheaters handbook"

[bulletpruf]

I did an international fireworks competition in Seoul - set up on barges in the Han river..... The Kimchee isn't bad -- it was the "roasted snails" and the long drop toilets that were hard to get used to.... LOL

Seoul is awesome. Very clean, friendly folks, very safe, great public transportation.

I like kimchee, but not something that I'll miss much when we leave.

Car scene in Korea/Seoul is a bit strange -- the status symbol is the big black 4 door Hyundai sedan. Don't see many sporty rides; very small percentage of what you see on the roads. And almost no vintage iron; locals are not fans of older cars.

Scott

[bulletpruf]

Hey Scott,

couple of comments... first, NAPLES???!! you're supposed to be moving to CALI! what's the hold up??? :) although it will be amazing if you finish the Javelin and do a track day at Monza!

second, don't know if you ever saw the video I made of the dash I built for my car? it's just a few pieces of aluminum rivited together. weighs nothing and gets the job done. don't know if you're looking for a less home brew style?


Asif -

Good to hear from you! Not sure if you saw the progress on the custom adjustable UCA's on the AMC forum, but the prototype is done. Last I heard the fabricator wanted 5 sets pre-ordered before he did a run. He was going to work on LCA's, too. Need to remind him to ship your stuff back when he's done with it.

Dash is close to what I'm looking for; thanks for posting the video. Haven't seen it yet.

Yeah, I was hoping for California after Korea, but can't really argue with Naples! Will be looking for something to zip around in while I'm there - maybe late 60's/early 70's Alfa GTV 1750 or 2000, Fiat Dino coupe, or perhaps a Lancia Delta Integrale HF.

Scott

[bulletpruf]

Like I told the guys running the Pontiac motored Trans Ams and AMC Javelins one year at the Monterey Historics, I have nothing but the greatest respect for the guys running the "othermobiles" Camaros and Mustangs are a "piece of cake" compared to running one of these (although a $3K timing cover to run Holley Domiantor IR carbs on a 69 Boss isn't any cakewalk...)

Nice project, I always loved the fender lines on those AMC 2nd gens...right out of the T/A 'cheaters handbook"

Definitely not as much out there for an AMC build, but it's not always a bad thing. If you wanted aluminum heads for a Gen 1 SBC, how in the hell would you choose? For an AMC, you really only have two choices.

What's painful is the suspension bits and brakes. Not much aftermarket support at all if you want something that's suitable for a track car.

If I do another similar car, would love to to a 69 Trans Am clone. It's not a 69 Camaro, but can use same suspension packages. Would run a Pontiac motor, of course.

Thanks

Scott

[mike343sharpstk]

Fellow Javelin owner here, and from the looks of it you have just about everything you need with all the hard stuff done. If you want a car heavily focused on track use, I would pretty much copy what Asifnyc has done.

It gets tricky when you want a street/track car:confused18:

My car is 100% street car, so I've had plenty of compromise on cam choice, and interior comfort and things like that.

As far as suspension and brakes, the basics are available from control freaks suspension, and Wilwood brakes.

[bulletpruf]

Fellow Javelin owner here, and from the looks of it you have just about everything you need with all the hard stuff done. If you want a car heavily focused on track use, I would pretty much copy what Asifnyc has done.

It gets tricky when you want a street/track car:confused18:

My car is 100% street car, so I've had plenty of compromise on cam choice, and interior comfort and things like that.

As far as suspension and brakes, the basics are available from control freaks suspension, and Wilwood brakes.

Well, Control Freak has a suspension package for about $4,000, I think. Not optimized for track use. Their UCAs and LCAs are quite expensive and not adjustable. Nice stuff for a street car, but not really what I'm looking for.

Wilwood brake kit for the front is limited to smaller rotors. Again, more of a street kit.

Thanks

Scott

[Revved]

Seoul is awesome. Very clean, friendly folks, very safe, great public transportation.

I like kimchee, but not something that I'll miss much when we leave.

Car scene in Korea/Seoul is a bit strange -- the status symbol is the big black 4 door Hyundai sedan. Don't see many sporty rides; very small percentage of what you see on the roads. And almost no vintage iron; locals are not fans of older cars.

Scott

We did two years in Seoul back in 86-88 living in Hanam Village outside of Yongsan. The compound we lived in backed right to Itaewon and was completely surrounded on all sides by Korean houses. They cleaned it up ALOT getting ready for the 88 Olympics and it sounds like they've kept it clean which is good.... our experience there was far different. Dirty, nasty, smelly, heavy, smog, tear gas a couple times a year from riots at the college down the road protesting Americans being there by jumping off buildings on fire killing themselves. A month after we left the housing area was raided, gate gaurds beaten up, numerous residents vehicles stolen or flipped and burned The general population in the city was a mixed bag... some were very very nice people, some were very very shifty. A couple times a year there would be a GI that would get beaten up from getting stupid in the local bars and then subsequent riots- likely a well deserved beating but it just reinforced that there were times that we didn't go out of the compound without parents.

I always remember driving anywhere was an adventure. Driving laws were just suggestions out there.... anything was fare game... sidewalks, wrong ways.. Scooters piled with 10' of crap strapped on the back would zip between traffic and down the sidewalks. The Busses ruled the road and they let you know it- if they wanted your lane they would push you out of the way A friend's mom had a 80s Chevy station wagon well appointed with the purple marks from multiple run ins with the Korean busses... after a while they learned to stay out of her way. Kias and Daewoos were everywhere and were disposable... I saw so many small wrecks where they crushed like aluminum cans. My Dad had a green 75 Chevy C10 Van that they were always trying to buy off of him because they did LOVE American cars.

Outside of the city was beautiful but the people were very poor. We traveled around outside of Seoul a few times... went up to the DMZ...(the "Demilitarized zone" supposedly "neutral ground" right on the border between North and South Korea where they would have talks) walked on the North Korea side of the conference room. Walking up to that building is definitely intense.

The smell of KimChee was everywhere- everyone had their giant ceramic pots on their balconies to ferment. I massively expanded my comic book collection in the countless comic book shops where you could pick up old issues for the equivalent of about .05, mastered Shinobi in the numerous arcades, and got into racing RC cars. Definitely an interesting time in my life. I wish I was older and could have appreciated it more.

Sounds like your project is heading in the right direction! Good luck and enjoy your time overseas!

[bulletpruf]

We did two years in Seoul back in 86-88 living in Hanam Village outside of Yongsan. The compound we lived in backed right to Itaewon and was completely surrounded on all sides by Korean houses. They cleaned it up ALOT getting ready for the 88 Olympics and it sounds like they've kept it clean which is good.... our experience there was far different. Dirty, nasty, smelly, heavy, smog, tear gas a couple times a year from riots at the college down the road protesting Americans being there by jumping off buildings on fire killing themselves. A month after we left the housing area was raided, gate gaurds beaten up, numerous residents vehicles stolen or flipped and burned The general population in the city was a mixed bag... some were very very nice people, some were very very shifty. A couple times a year there would be a GI that would get beaten up from getting stupid in the local bars and then subsequent riots- likely a well deserved beating but it just reinforced that there were times that we didn't go out of the compound without parents.

I always remember driving anywhere was an adventure. Driving laws were just suggestions out there.... anything was fare game... sidewalks, wrong ways.. Scooters piled with 10' of crap strapped on the back would zip between traffic and down the sidewalks. The Busses ruled the road and they let you know it- if they wanted your lane they would push you out of the way A friend's mom had a 80s Chevy station wagon well appointed with the purple marks from multiple run ins with the Korean busses... after a while they learned to stay out of her way. Kias and Daewoos were everywhere and were disposable... I saw so many small wrecks where they crushed like aluminum cans. My Dad had a green 75 Chevy C10 Van that they were always trying to buy off of him because they did LOVE American cars.

Outside of the city was beautiful but the people were very poor. We traveled around outside of Seoul a few times... went up to the DMZ...(the "Demilitarized zone" supposedly "neutral ground" right on the border between North and South Korea where they would have talks) walked on the North Korea side of the conference room. Walking up to that building is definitely intense.

The smell of KimChee was everywhere- everyone had their giant ceramic pots on their balconies to ferment. I massively expanded my comic book collection in the countless comic book shops where you could pick up old issues for the equivalent of about .05, mastered Shinobi in the numerous arcades, and got into racing RC cars. Definitely an interesting time in my life. I wish I was older and could have appreciated it more.

Sounds like your project is heading in the right direction! Good luck and enjoy your time overseas!

Sean -

Sounds like it's changed a lot.

I suppose Seoul and Korea are a bit dirty compared to some of the nicer cities, but not filthy.

We live on base - Yongsan. Hanam Village is still open, but shutting down. Much of Yongsan and Area I (2ID) is moving down south to Camp Humphreys.

We have periodic protests, but small, quiet, and peaceful.

VERY little violence against servicemembers. The violence is usually US servicemembers against each other. Sometimes US against local national. Very rare for Korean to attack US servicemembers.

Driving is still pretty intense. Zero traffic enforcement except by cameras. Red lights are just a suggestion to stop. Scooters are nucking futs! All over the sidewalks, running lights, passing on the shoulder, etc. Love the homemade scooter pickups, too -
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Korea/IMG_0825_zpsff2a5c65.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Korea/IMG_0825_zpsff2a5c65.jpg.html)

See all sorts of types of transportation - not sure exactly what this is, but I've seen a few:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Korea/IMG_1973_zps6e0504c6.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Korea/IMG_1973_zps6e0504c6.jpg.html)

Lots of Kias, Hyundai's, Daewoos, etc. Most folks buy a $1,000 Hyundai Sonata beater for their tour. They're everywhere and the locals can easily fix them. I got lucky and bought a 99 Yukon 4x4 for $1,000.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/99%20Yukon/IMG_2111_zpsf8ffa32e.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/99%20Yukon/IMG_2111_zpsf8ffa32e.jpg.html)

Have been to the DMZ; definitely intense.

Thanks,

Scott