Dreamin Ta's

[Panteracer]

Decided to finally start a thread on my Firebird
I have owned this car for over 27 years
It was a $300 dollar non running Espirit
I changed the motor - 9 times now
made it a four speed car- now 5 speed
Twelve bolt rear end.. added bars and Konis
and started Autocrossing...

I added the Trans Am flairs, hood and Spoiler and
had one of my Autocross buddies Paint the Car
25 years ago for $1100... still looks pretty good

In the last several years I have added a bunch
of upgrades to the car

494 inch Mr-1 block, Roland racing head motor
solid rollers, shaft system now,.750 com cam,
scat crank, diamond pistons etc... was Popular
Hot Rodding motor but we replaced the valve train
and block to make it live.. original motor Dyno was
755 hp with 620 torque.. yes it is a Ponitac

Speed tech front end with coil overs - now Vikings
with 450 Lb springs
Mono leaf rear with spherical and raised front mounts
Viking shocks out back also

Protouring subframe connectors along with his old
Herb Adam style front braces, Autopower 5 point bar

Electric water pump, A1000 fuel pump with return to
Rick's SS tank with rear sump, Msd dizzy and electronics

Carb is a 4150 built with Dominator plate and metering blocks
approx 1150 cfm

Just put a Splitter out front, rear lexan window,
pulled the side windows and working on a rear wing
extension, have new side vents and a glass hood
to install sometime

Keeps me busy along with the Pantera

Bob

[WSSix]

Looks great, Bob! can you do me a huge favor and post a side profile picture? i'd liked to see ride height and tire clearance. thanks!

[Flash68]

Love it Bob. Great mix of old and new without getting TOO new IMO. :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

awesome car bob

[efs69]

Nice car Bob!!

[carbuff]

Love the car and the color!!! Do you know which shade of blue that is? Looks a bit darker than mine. I prefer the darker shades over the original Lucerne Blue...

One question: which shaker base and air filter setup are you using? I think I have seen one before that would mount like yours appears to, but I can't recall which one it is?

[bsharpe]

Great looking Trans Am. The trans am flares look to be seamless. Is that just the pictures or did you have them molded in? I would appreciate it if you could show how you mounted the front splitter. I have planned on adding one to my TA after seeing it added to Alberts old car.

Looks great, Bob! can you do me a huge favor and post a side profile picture? i'd liked to see ride height and tire clearance. thanks!

I agree, I would like to see more pictures and I would like to know the tire/wheel specs

[Panteracer]

Ok attached is a side view.. rear fenders are
slightly flaired and a little lower, fronts I just
cut the lip and pulled them

Tires are 275s in the front on Simmons Racing wheels-17's
I have a set of Simmons for the rear but had the minilites
made with less offset to pull the tire in.. both are 17" with
315's... I think I could get 335s out back.. I have
Kumo V-710s and a set of Nittos for the 200 events
Headers- 3 1/2" collectors with 3" exhaust along with
the bellhousing are the low points.. I did raise the car
and now have about 2 1/2" clearance at the low points

Color was originally going to be black and at the last
minute I changed it.. was suppose to be Honda civic
color way back but he tweaked it slightly so don't really know
Cannot find my extra paint

Painter did mold both front and rear flairs and we put
rock protector on the rears but that did not last long
I put some pieces of carbon fiber on them..

Shaker was a bit of a project
I had the carb built to get rid of the dominator
as the hole was too far forward.. I then made
a plate for the bottom and top took a 3" round
filter and shaped it oval like.. it actually goes
right around the front of the carb.. then took my
old shaker and glued Oak pieces inside with inserts
and drilled down thru the filter housing and bolted
it down...cut the flange on the shaker to fit inside
the hole with clearance as it sits a little taller
Also had the manifold milled to sit level.. quite a project
but really wanted a shaker.. new glass hood has the
hole uncut but slightly depressed but about 3/4" too
short so need to do some work on it plus paint or wrap
it.. not ready to give up the stripe which was painted
on years ago.

Will try to get a better shot from the side down low

Bob

[Panteracer]

Shaker,
I only have a early version of the first
mock up on the shaker. the one on the
car actually is a little taller and more oval
or v- shaped.. lost a lot of pics in my old phone

Bob

[WSSix]

Thanks, Bob!

[glassman]

Yes nice car with a nice rumble. Love the 'birds. Watch'ed that Overhaulin episode last nite with the 'bird and DSE and LS conversion....

[Panteracer]

Looks like you have been busy
with your car Mike. I thought it was just
a cam then I see new rear end. Looks good
It will be good to hang out with you at Thunderhill

Bob

[BigJoe]

wow that is a great looking car, very nice

[carbuff]

Nice solution to the shaker. Eric and I have a ton of work into mine to get it centered and at the right height. I was really concerned about the amount of filter surface that would be exposed. We ended up adding a foam element to the top also to allow for extra flow. I'm scheduled for a dyno soon, so I will try and run with and without it to see what difference it makes.

[Panteracer]

Finished the rear Lexan window
Taking weight off the car but on the
Wrong end:)

Love all the active 70 firebirds
Bob

[DBasher]

Minilites look great, same with the shade of blue. Is the stripe a factory deal? That thick black around the edge looks neato!
Nice work.
:thumbsup:

[Panteracer]

Dbasher
The stripe is actually painted on.. I did the layout
years ago for the Painter...It will be hard to replicate
if I change my Hood..

forgot to take a pic of the front spoiler mount
hopefully in the next couple of days
Working on the rear spoiler extension next


Bob

[OLDFLM]

Just a thought... but if you change your hood, couldn't they scan/recreate the stripe in a decal or wrap?

LOVE your car btw!!!

[Panteracer]

I figure if I change the hood then the
stripe will be changed also... I want to change
the front nose and then maybe try to match the
paint... not sure I want to take it that far apart
and deal with a painter as I am now ready to run
the car for the season

Thanks.. love your build.. went thru it
many times

Bob

[Panteracer]

Better side shot taken today

[Panteracer]

Splitter is bolted to the existing body and
spoiler bolts. Then a bunch of sheet metal screws
into the Fiberglass. Been tested to 100mph so far
Picture note the best

[WSSix]

Did it help keep the front planted at higher speeds, Bob?

Thanks for the side shot!

[chichirone]

Great looking Bird Bob. Love the color, stance and styling. Big fan of the splitter. Keep the pics coming.

[Panteracer]

Does the spitter work?

Front seemed pretty stable on the car
before so hard to tell. Only a blast
Down the freeway quickly to make sure it
stayed on. Working on the rear one next
which will be an extension on the TA tale
Squared off will work better but I am going to
cut it angled on the ends as it looks better

Then time to cut the fender vents
Was going to do hood vents but too
many things in the way

Thanks for the comments
Been sending things to my buddies for
a while and decided to start a thread here
Not like what some of the others have done
but fun as I can do it myself

Not as pretty of a car as my Pantera but my
favorite as I brought it back from the dead
and raced it for many years

Bob

Bob

[OLDFLM]

LOVIN' this car!!

What are you going to do for fender vents?

A previous shop eliminated the 71-only functional fender vents on my car... said the 71 fenders couldn't be saved... idk I doubt they were that bad, but water under the bridge. The car does look smoother without them, but with my Anvil hood with no cowl vents and no fender vents I'm wondering if I shouldn't look at some way of getting some of the air out from under the hood too.

Interested to see what you come up with!

[Panteracer]

Ty,
I bought some vents from summit
Hopefully will get them cut in this weekend and
will post... If you read Brian Hobaug's build he
just put some in his hood as it moved all around
at 140mph.. I still have the steel hood and my
car has not gone 140 yet.. just been an autocrosser

Bob

[Panteracer]

So finished the rear spoiler extension
Measured the optima 8" height to be sure

[Panteracer]

Measurement shot 8" above body

[Panteracer]

Fender vent cut on
one side. Was a pain to cut
around the end of the fire wall
But putting it farther forward would
have looked funny. Will snap it in
Monday and cut the other side
It is a clear shot to the engine bay
so hopefully it with help cool things off

Bob

[MaxHarvard]

Fender vent cut on
one side. Was a pain to cut
around the end of the fire wall
But putting it farther forward would
have looked funny. Will snap it in
Monday and cut the other side
It is a clear shot to the engine bay
so hopefully it with help cool things off

Bob

Is this going to be cosmetic or functional?

[Panteracer]

Functional
It has a lot more flow than if
you opened up the stock ones
I will take a shot of the vent and passageway
Tomorrow

Bob

[Panteracer]

Does anyone have a shot of how
to adjust one side of the front nose
piece up. Mine has always been low
on one side and I want to move it up
to match the hood. Car has always just
been an autocrosser ...trying to make it
look a little better for Optima

Bob

[MaxHarvard]

Functional
It has a lot more flow than if
you opened up the stock ones
I will take a shot of the vent and passageway
Tomorrow

Bob

Flow for engine heat or downforce?

I only ask because I just installed fender vents on my car and it has no inner fender liner.

[Panteracer]

I still have inner fenders
Trying to release pressure and
heat out of the engine bay

Back in the day I was told that Penske
Put holes in the firewall and ran vent tubing
all the way to the back of the car-trans am cars...
They had no inner fenders but were getting air out
and off the firewall

One of my buddies did wings and aero work
on Altered Dragsters and Sprint cars
He told me I should put vents in the rear panel
to the trunk to create a low pressure so the rear
wing will work better

He also said to close up the lovers on the back
of a stock hood. I still have the steel hood on the
car... My harwood glass hood replacement has no louvers

Still learning and asking

Bob

[Panteracer]

Here is a picture of the vents
I bought at Suumit

Bob

[WSSix]

Bob, you could spend some time with a vacuum/pressure gauge a take readings at different spots on the car to determine where changes need to be made to allow the air to flow. For instance, you may find that a partial belly pan in the engine bay will help evacuate air from the bay by increasing air pressure in the bay relative to the outside at the vents. The air will flow from high to low pressure. The hard part may be to achieve this while keeping the pressure in the bay lower than it is in front of the radiator so air will continue to flow through it.

[Panteracer]

Trey,
I just finished the install yesterday
After coming back from a short drive I shut
the car down but left the fan and elect water
pump run for a short time.. walking by I could feel
air coming out the vents... I did a quick test with a
piece of paper and the air goes up near the top of the
vent and then forward?? as I head lower.. now sure when
the car is moving...

Pic of Vent installed

Bob

[WSSix]

Looks good! Hopefully, it'll work well for you.

[Tuske427]

Sweet car, and I agree- that blue is awesome!

[Panteracer]

Thanks I love the color ... Just wish I knew
what the painter mixed up 25 years back
I did keep some pieces I cut out to try to
match later

Signed up for Optima Thunderhill today
now we need to see how it does after changing
a million things

Bob

[Panteracer]

Spent a little time cleaning up the rear
Flairs and lower Rockers. A little carbon
fiber vinyl covers up a lot of road rash!

Also took a shot of the 3" exhaust

Bob

[Panteracer]

Guess pics did not show up

[Panteracer]

Pic hopefully this time

[JakeR]

Very cool car Bob, I have always loved the early second gen Trans Ams. Looking forward to seeing you at Thunderhill!

[Panteracer]

Exhaust picture. Does not let me do more
than on picture at a time

Bob

[Panteracer]

Jake
I love the 69 cameros i had a Z28
when I was a kid. Looking forward to
Thunderhill. With all this great weather
now I am wondering if it wii be good in a month

Bob

[Track Junky]

Love the car Bob! Did you say mono leafs?

[Panteracer]

Track junky
Yes it has mono leafs from
F body pro touring. Seem to
work good so far. Been tweaking things
and now time to run it

Bob

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

whats the japanese flag sticker about?

[Panteracer]

Vengeance
If you mean the Sticker on the front
window it is our company logo...red,
white and blue.. one with my nephew

Bob

[Panteracer]

Been fighting an electrical short for a while
and finally figured out my one wire alternator
(actually has 6 wires going to it) wires were all in
a fan formation to get them to fit would move and
loosen as the engine torqued.. bought a terminal
block.. Modified it and now have them all in a row
so hopefully no more non starting or lights out issue

New softer brake pads next then work on pinion angle,
maybe mount the new door handles but that is low on the list

I have Nitto tires Nto5's.. only thing I could get in 200 tires
my size 275/315 17's.. wondering if anyone knows where to
start with tire pressure.. was running about 30 both ends
but very few runs before.. now that I got the front to stick
hope to dial her in.. any thoughts

Bob

[Panteracer]

Got a bunch of little things done on the bird
Front pads changed to bp-20's. Had the wrong ones
For the back. They will be here tomorrow
Installed wedges in the rear to change pinion angle
Insulated the hose to the Accusump since it is inside the car
Fixed the bad spot on the seat... Used iron on patches
with my heat gun:)
And finally put a horn on the car.... As if you can't
hear that beast coming from down the block

Just a few more little items mostly dress up things left to do
Add pin striping, new door handles then we are set for optima

Bob

[glassman]

Sweet. See ya up there...

[Panteracer]

Mikey.. Aka Glassman I am ready to run the
car hard.. hope all of your and my efforts have
things working .. look forward to seeing you again

Bob

[Panteracer]

The right rear pads showed up today
Will get them on Thursday and hope to
do a little testing Friday and Saturday
It is suppose to be over 70 degrees the
next couple of days. Makes it hard to stay
in the shop and work on things

Bob

[Panteracer]

Got a few more things done for optima
Rear brakes installed ...adjusted the clutch pedal
height as it was way high. I never put an adjusting
bolt in tweny plus years ago when I made it a manual
shift car.

Fabbed up some plexi windows for transporting
I pulled the side windows and all the hardware recently
trying to save weight

Actually drove around with the passenger side in
tonight. Works pretty good

Bob

[Panteracer]

Took a shot of my old 69 trans am clone I
have hanging on the wall.. wish I still had this
car but could not get enough tire
under it years back.. need to get this shot of my
current cars... heading to Sears early one day with
no fog or traffic in the parking lot... like this last weekend
but I was working on the car

Bob

[glassman]

Funny the contrast to the rims of yesterday compared to today....I'd love a 69 TA in my arsenal...

[WSSix]

Dang, Bob. You've had some great cars. I really want to build a 69 bird at some point.

[Justin@EntropyRad]

Took a shot of my old 69 trans am clone I
have hanging on the wall.. wish I still had this
car but could not get enough tire
under it years back.. need to get this shot of my
current cars... heading to Sears early one day with
no fog or traffic in the parking lot... like this last weekend
but I was working on the car

Bob

I'll like any pic of the GGB from the Sausalito side!

[Panteracer]

Yes a 69 Ta would be cool.. looked at a low
mileage one many years back in the north bay
The car was very nice but not perfect for the two
guys that collected them.. they had a warehouse full
of rare muscle cars and trust me they looked perfect
They wanted $20k for it...
Yes the GGB shot with your car is a great shot..will
do my current cars some day

Bob

[Panteracer]

Did a little red pin stripe on the stripes trying
to give the car and its old paint job a little something
It really does not show that well in the picture.. looks better in person
Just a couple of things left for Optima

Bob

[Panteracer]

Had a little header rash on the Autocross
track after the first dip near the start
We dialed the shocks up and it
was a little better.. time to put some shields
on the headers.. My Buddy Harry wants me to raise
the rear end more

Bob

[Panteracer]

Harry did a little roll angle review using
one of the pictures from the Autocross
Cool Stuff

Bob

[WSSix]

That is a pretty cool read, Bob. Thanks for posting it. What UCA's are you running? Car looks good as always.

[Panteracer]

Not sure what UCA's are??

Trying to post a video of the run but not working

Bob

[SSLance]

Harry did a little roll angle review using
one of the pictures from the Autocross
Cool Stuff

Bob


Yup yup... Looks like your car is ready for some Secret Sauce!!

I saw a couple of videos from the autocross course and the dips made it looks...well, challenging to say the least. Especially that last right before the right hand sweeper to the finish.

I bet there was some serious shock adjusting going on in the pits trying to get cars through the "terrain" as fast as possible.

[Panteracer]

Lance,
yes that last turn was a challenge.. car was like a bucking
bronko until we teaked it a few times.. but tons
of fun and great for the leaning curve.. have a video
of one of my runs but not smart enough to post it
Skip is helping me out if he can

Bob

[fleetus macmullitz]

fjZS2G5xQCQ



R0WSagnkxVI

[carbuff]

That car looks and sounds great! Ok, so maybe I'm a bit biased, but I don't care... :)

[SSLance]

Heck yeah!!! Looking good out there.

[OLDFLM]

That car looks and sounds great! Ok, so maybe I'm a bit biased, but I don't care... :)

^^^ Ditto! ^^^

[Panteracer]

Thanks guys... we were really happy with how
the car handled and ran... We have a list of little
things to make it better... rework the rear brake valving,
taller ball joint and maybe some different size bump stops,
Soften the tops of the rear sway bar mounting

Need to check out the shaft system to make sure the solid
rollers etc are all good since we had so much trouble before
installing them.. also want to look at the bronze gear in the
Dizzy as it has a few miles on it now.. motor was a pain for
a while so I want to make sure all is well inside... seemed great
all runs

Driver needs to get a little more aggressive now that I am
remembering what this car can do after 20 years of not
really running in seriously

All in good time.. I am really happy with the results so far
and enjoying learning how to dial it in

Future may bring new gearing, tires, wheels and brake upgrade

Bob

[Panteracer]

My Pantera buddies.. we all have
180 exhaust systems and my crew
for the weekend less Harry the Brains
of the Team

Bob

[Ron in SoCal]

^ that's just cool Bob. Glad you had fun...you car looked like it was too!

:cheers:

[fleetus macmullitz]

Bob,

Sounds like a pist-off-Poncho to me.

:D

[GregWeld]

Not sure what UCA's are??

Trying to post a video of the run but not working

Bob



Upper Control Arms

[WSSix]

Not sure what UCA's are??

Trying to post a video of the run but not working

Bob

Upper Control Arms, Bob. Sorry for using abbreviations.

Ah, Greg beat me to it.

I'm very happy with my SpeedTech arms. At current ride height, which is low, I have -1.5 camber and +4.5 caster. I could go more on both, easily. Camber gain is very nice compared to stock. I just noticed the comment in the analysis about your camber gain so I though I would ask.

Glad you had a lot of fun out there. Good luck!

[fleetus macmullitz]

:G-Dub:

[Panteracer]

Uca's... I think I figured it out late last night
I have speed tech control arms..... emailing
back and forth with Harry last night and we
decided to put a taller ball joint.. 1 1/2" taller
although I think it may already be raised up...
will check to see how much

Camber on the car is 3 1/2 degrees presently
not sure where caster is.. toe in approx 1/8"
We checked it at the track again last Saturday

Bob

[Panteracer]

Skip,
The motor is really strong.. can't hardly get
on it except going to the finish line.. love the
big solid roller... .075 lift Motor.. it really hits

Bob

[Sieg]

I'll just leave this here..........

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-gfNpmvt/0/X2/i-gfNpmvt-X2.jpg

[Panteracer]

Seig,
you are the man... I have been trying
for Months to get a good picture of this car
and then you sent this and I am speechless

thank you so much

Bob

[SSLance]

Man, that is a GREAT picture of a BEAUTIFUL car...

Nice work Sieg... (and Bob for putting the car together)...

[Sieg]

Sieg,
you are the man... I have been trying
for Months to get a good picture of this car
and then you sent this and I am speechless

thank you so much

Bob

You're welcome Bob. :thumbsup:

How about one hard on the brakes?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-cbc7XZZ/1/X2/i-cbc7XZZ-X2.jpg

[bulldog19]

Great pics of a nice looking Bird! Well done to Bob and Sieg!

[Panteracer]

And I thought the GoPro stuff I looked at last
night was really cool... but these pictures are
better.. not bad for a 25 year old paint job
that cost me $1,100... Road rash is extra

Bob

[ONEBAD78TA]

Very cool

[WSSix]

really great pictures, Scott. Thanks for sharing.

[Panteracer]

Spent some time going thru all of Scott's
pictures... great shots of everyone... it also
shows what I kinda already knew... that the back
brakes were coming in way too late... need to put
a check valve in because they retract all the way
back each time... tried to shim them up before the
event but that did not resolve the issue.. didn't want
to do any brake line plumbing just before the event

Now to figure out which shots I want to order up
I guess it is time to take down or move over the
big picture of the mustang I don't own any more
hanging in my office.

Thanks again Scott as some have said the action
progression shots are very valuable

Bob

[Sieg]

2 psi residual valve.

Do you have enough pressure going to them through the proportioning valve? Might dial it up and do some lockup testing.

Mine was lifting until I opened the prop valve more and then it started to pull the rear down slightly. Front to rear pad compounds are your other tuning tool. Run a caliper pressure calc to determine if you need different or matched pads front vs rear. I'm running a less aggressive pad in the rear to balance caliper force.

My visual impression was your rear brakes were on the smallish side, so I'm GUESSING the fronts may be overpowering them.

Are you running the factory delay valve? You could remove that, though mine seems to work fine with the delay valve.

[Panteracer]

I have Wilwood 6 piston up front bp-20's and single piston out back
Cpp master with their proportioning valve.. we had to pull something
out to make it work for disc brakes... When I put the bp-20's out back
figured there was an issue... will try to replumb first but might just
put some 4 piston Wilwoods... was thinking the 6 pistons would go
to the back if I decide to go to 18" wheels.. Motor has been an issue
for a long time and that seems ok now so will move forward
Getting to some Falkins would also help but nothing in the rear 17" size

Thinking the Valve first then work my way down the road
It is evolving slowly

Bob

[Sieg]

I'm running Hawk HP+ up front and BP-20's in the rear. Try the valve first.

[Panteracer]

Valve first is what I am thinking also

thanks

Bob

[rustomatic]

Bob, were you really using your brakes out there, on the autocross, after the first turn? I hate that middle pedal . . .

It was fun hanging with you--if nothing else, your car will always look better than mine. I think people actually turn their cameras off when I run.

One day, when I grow up, maybe I'll be able to try out your neighborhood on the road course (we'll call this the Pantera level) . . .

[glassman]

I dunno Paul, I think patina is the the thing right now. No such thing as a "patina Pantera" though lol. I think you may be pleasantly surprised, that's my bet.....

[Panteracer]

Paul,
Patina is in.. hell the Firebird paint job is 25 years old!!!
Your car really scoots on such little tires
I do ride the brakes alot when crossing.. trail brake the whole
thing.. going to fix them so they work a little better

I thought us coasting down the hill (pit racing and Bsing
was the best part :)

Just signed up for Good guys Pleasanton with the bird
and thinking of going to Vegas and running the track
this time as I think the straights are short enough for my gearing

Bob

[Panteracer]

So my buddy Harry checked out the web for info
on my Right Stuff rear brakes. Turns out the e brakes
that are not hooked up actually adjust things. When I
changed pads that were thinner it made things worse

I moved the e brake lever a bunch of times and it tightened
things up but not all the way. Bleed things and then we had full
contact. Took it for a drive tonight and it is amazing what real
Brakes can do... Too bad I didn't have them in the stop box

Oh we'll off to the list he gave me. Taller ball joints. ... Same
As a raised spindle... Then change sway bar ends at the top
to a heim instead of rubber. Modifying my old sway bar to
fit the Speedtech lower arms

Getting a few sizes of bump stops also to play with

Bob

[Panteracer]

Taller ball joints came today along
with a spare bronze gear. Still need to check
the old one.

Looks like I am going to cut off part of the sway
bar to make it stronger along with fixing the ends

Bob

[Panteracer]

Forgot the picture

[Panteracer]

Also received the new falkins for the front
17" 275's for $202 each shipped

Problem is no rear :G-Dub: 315's in 17"
They do make an 18" for $411 each shipped
Slightly larger and twice the price. Am I
Missing something???

Bob

[KPC67]

It's a common size so they can charge that much.:headscratch:

[Panteracer]

Cutting the Front Swaybar 1 1/2" and putting heims..
then moving the LCA mounts to the front.. Trying to
stiffen up the front without reinventing the wheel
Also installing left and right hand threads on the verticles so I can
adjust it without taking everything apart

Bob

[Panteracer]

So cut old bar and welded tabs. We were going to
weld lower tabs to get it aligned. Figured out the newer
Bar is wider and will line up good. Back to fabbing
This time should be quicker

Bob

[Panteracer]

Shortened and prepped the second front bar for welding
This bar is wider and will line up better.. Then off to the rear
bar to make it stronger

Bob

[Panteracer]

New radiator showed up today
The old one was 4 core that was over 25 years old
New griffin 2 row 1 1/4" tubes with 16" Spaul fans

Need to figure out the mounting since the shroud is
Going away

Bob

[ONEBAD78TA]

Very nice,,,let me know how it works.

[Panteracer]

Ok I figure since Sieg can post pics of
his lawn mower I can jump to the Pantera
Going to Texas world speedway near Houston
in a few weeks so need to get the black car ready

Been running 4" straight pipes where I can but after
the carb rebuild the motor likes some back pressure
Gotta run straight pipes cause there will be full race
panteras with theirs. So I bought some SS conicals that
go from 4" to 3". Since the pipes are coated I will have
Lupe a NorCal Shelby guy weld them up for me

I think these will sound pretty cool

Bob

[GregWeld]

New radiator showed up today
The old one was 4 core that was over 25 years old
New griffin 2 row 1 1/4" tubes with 16" Spaul fans

Need to figure out the mounting since the shroud is
Going away

Bob



WTF - Why would you ditch the shroud???

[Panteracer]

I am talking about deleting the stock shroud which
actually holds the radiator in on a 70s bird

The new rad has its alum shroud that I am keeping
but will not fit inside the old plastic assembly

Bob

[fleetus macmullitz]

WTF - Why would you ditch the shroud???

I am talking about deleting the stock shroud which
actually holds the radiator in on a 70s bird

The new rad has its alum shroud that I am keeping
but will not fit inside the old plastic assembly

Bob

I wanna go on record as being 'pro' shroud.

:thankyou:


Seriously Bob, enjoying seeing the ole beast get some nice tweeks. :thumbsup:

[ONEBAD78TA]

A Pontiac without a shroud = a very hot Pontiac.

[WSSix]

Bob I simply took a piece of 090 aluminum and bent it 90* to hold my radiator in place. I bolted it to the core support and used the stock upper radiator pads. It looks like a typical radiator cover. I even used it to hold the top of my electrical fans in place since I'm using the 4th gen fans. No issues with it moving around. I haven't pushed my car as hard as you have though. I don't see it becoming a problem though. Good luck getting the radiator in. Hope it works well for you.

Here's a picture

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/PICT0194.jpg

[Panteracer]

Trey
I was thinking that might be how I do it
I like the fact you covered the old metal completey
I was thinking about drilling the hell out of the existing
metal to lighten things up so I need something to
cover it so the air goes thru the radiator

Radiator project is on the back burner until i finish
getting the Pantera ready for Texas

Bob

[WSSix]

The picture is misleading. I only cleaned up the core support and repainted it. The radiator cover replaced the shroud only. It begins right on top of the support like the shroud did.

Here we go. Here's and outside picture from the front that shows them as being two separate pieces

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/PICT0319.jpg

Eventually, I do plan to close out the front area to prevent air from going over the core support. I also intend to close up the nose area from underneath and make the front end more like a modern car that only brings air in through the bottom. All in time. For the present, I have no cooling issues and I really need to make an overflow tank. I think I'll work on that once I finish the exhaust.

Good luck getting the Pantera ready

[Panteracer]

Trey
I see it now. I think I may close it up to the nose
Bottom is covered by the spoiler that goes under the
radiator Not sure if that is good or bad as no air
passes up from below?? Was thinking
of angling the sides in front of the radiator that will have
some intakes that i can duct to the brakes but direct air
thru the radiator more effectively

Bob

[Firebirdsteve]

I did this...

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/westcansteve/Firebird%20Build/IMG_0856_zpsmnhu2luu.jpg (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/westcansteve/media/Firebird%20Build/IMG_0856_zpsmnhu2luu.jpg.html)

Just need to paint the hardware BLACK!!!

[WSSix]

looks good, Steve. Can you get a side shot?

[Firebirdsteve]

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/westcansteve/Firebird%20Build/IMG_0857_zpss7oi8gg9.jpg (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/westcansteve/media/Firebird%20Build/IMG_0857_zpss7oi8gg9.jpg.html)

[carbuff]

I'm really happy with the one that Eric made for TOW:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150318_175729_zpsz1nuoboc.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150318_175729_zpsz1nuoboc.jpg.html)

[WSSix]

Thanks Steve. Your plate looks good as well, Bryan.

[Panteracer]

Thanks guys gives me a direction
to go. Just need to finish up a few
More things on the Pantera first

Bob

[Panteracer]

So Firebird is still on the back burner
Been working on the Pantera to get ready for Texas
Just received a memo and they are doing a final
party at Texas World Speedway Sat May 16th after
the track goes cold to celebrate the 20 years running
It is going to be torn down after this event.. very sad
Everyone is welcome... going to walk the track, dinner etc
and a few special things

Pantera has a new oil cooler lines, fresh front pads, ran the valves,
new valve cover gaskets (they were a leaking), plugs, oil, trans fluid,
took off the BS 200 Rated tires and put some real Dot road race tires

Need to mount the 4" exhaust that now has 3" ends for back pressure
and make one new bracket as they keep breaking

Long pull to TEXAS starting Tuesday.. now if the rain would stop there???

Bob

[carbuff]

Wow I love that car. I've always thought these were really gorgeous cars!

Not sure if I can make it up next weekend or not, but I will try to come up for a day if I can and see it in person. 2 hour drive each way isn't too bad. :)

Safe travels!

[Panteracer]

Bryan
If you can come up and can stay for
the dinner let me know and i will
make sure I get one as we need to
Commit Saturday morning so they have
Enough. We are running the track both days

Would be great to meet you

Bob

[no go nova]

Just went thru this whole thread, great looking bird thats poncho powered. One thing that would earn you cool points and sound is trying to get 180 degree headers on there. Keep us updated.

[Panteracer]

Would love to put 180 headers on the bird but
Not sure how to get any clearance. Headers are already
too low The Pantera has a very unique sound Wondering
How the new pipes will sound and work
Will find ou tomorrow

Bob

[carbuff]

Bryan
If you can come up and can stay for
the dinner let me know and i will
make sure I get one as we need to
Commit Saturday morning so they have
Enough. We are running the track both days

Would be great to meet you

Bob

I'll let you know as soon as I can. I wouldn't drive TOW up, as I'm about to do a little work on her right. But I would love to see TWS before it closes and meet you and the Pantera. :)

[Panteracer]

Bryan don't need to know until
late Friday so I can order the dinner sat morning
Text or call my cell. I hope they have coverage there
408 209-7677. Will be doing our annual Pantera
car show Friday night at La Toretta lodge

Had to stack things up yesterday so I could
load up the trailer with parts

Bob

[ONEBAD78TA]

What kind of muffler are you running? I was going to use my old 40 series flowmasters but since I don't care about the noise I've decided to use the outlaw series 3" mufflers it will be loud but I've heard it works well and it will look real simple and clean and that's the look I'm going for.by the way I love your pantera,I sold my 930 Porsche to build my TA.

[Panteracer]

I need to look again
It is 3" single chamber fairly short
Will check again tomorrow when I am
at the shop

It is a pain sometimes having two cars
The Pantera is sorted so the Firebird is more
Interest to me right now. Plus I am more
attached to the bird since I have a lot of history
way back with that car

Love your bird. Will slowly get mine in that direction

Bob

[ONEBAD78TA]

Yea I'm the same way,,I've had my Trans Am for 26 years now and it's my first car that's why I sold my other car to get the bird the way I wanted it,,,It should be a ton of fun to cruise around in.

[ONEBAD78TA]

It's alive,,,you can see it at METALWORKS CLASSICS.ON FACEBOOK OR BUTLER PERFORMANCE ON FACEBOOK

[Panteracer]

Finally making progress on the Bird again
Radiator is in place.... just need to drill a few
holes up top, make a bracket below to hold it
in and wire it.. I have two switches on the Pantera
for the fans and will do the same here.. never run
any fans on the track... I also have an electric pump
so I can leave it and the fans running in between runs
at an autocross since things are heating up

Need to get the gears changed next and waiting
on my new Forgelines so I can upgrade the rubber sizes



Bob

[Zoomin]

I need to look again
It is 3" single chamber fairly short
Will check again tomorrow when I am
at the shop

It is a pain sometimes having two cars
The Pantera is sorted so the Firebird is more
Interest to me right now. Plus I am more
attached to the bird since I have a lot of history
way back with that car

Love your bird. Will slowly get mine in that direction

Bob


What a nice pair of cars!

Looking forward to your assessment of the mufflers - sounds like we're after the same thing.

[flatoutz]

Pantera,

What size wheel and tires you going with?

[Panteracer]

My existing wheels are Simmons racing
wheels 10" in front and 11" out back 17"
Both have 4 3/4" back sets
My back fenders are slighty flaired and fronts are pulled

New wheels are 18x10 out front same back set but going up
From the 275s to 285 295 or 315

Rears are going to be 11 1/2 x18 with a 5 1/4 back set
Should be able to get 335s out back now

Will be selling the Simmons wheels next

Bob

[WSSix]

Looking good, Bob. Sorry to hear you're selling the Simmons wheels. I think they are a timeless looking wheel. I'm sure the new wheels will be great, too.

[carbuff]

This isn't a great picture (I wasn't nearly as good with a camera 15 years ago), but here's a shot of my previous Camaro with the Simmons. I really liked them:

http://www.lateral-g.net/cope/cope07.jpg

[Panteracer]

Brain,
you have my wheels:).. Simmons are timeless
but time to move on as the rubber to race is
needed... I remember when I changed from 16"
wheels and 255's to the 275/315 combo my Mustang
buddy cried because we were really close in running
times crossing. Then after the change I picked up well
over 1/2 second and never looked back... car won
everthing back in the day.. now need to sort this
baby out cause we ain't winning anything right now

Bob

[Panteracer]

Finally finished up the Radiator
and wiring of the fan switches yesterday
Only about 80 degrees out during the test
drive for about and hour on the freeway
stop and go traffic etc.. no higher than 180
when it used to hit 210 plus... on the freeway
it was 170 going 85 mph.. it used to just climb
if I was over 65... so all is good

Bob

[Panteracer]

Now that the Rad is in the bird
Time to do the new clutch in the Pantera
Ordered up a new Mcleod throwout bearing ($150)
never spent that much on one before but this one is right
and will not have to press in the old sleeve

Going to run the bird at the Park Memorial-Crows landing
this weekend.. figured my old Kumos are disposable since
I am going to 18" rubber when the new wheels show up

Bob

[Panteracer]

Spent the weekend out at Crows landing running the
Larry Park Memorial.. hot hot sat 104
New Radiator held up good.. driver is starting to
learn the car again.. better on Sunday... with
10 year old V710 Kumos which worked great
Crows Landing eats really soft tires

Got my "Stick you Bitch" sticker from Mary Pozzi
I had my car parked by hers for a while as she
was out taking pictures.. hoping my car could
remember how to be fast again:)

[SSLance]

I heard it was a bit toasty out there this weekend... Hopefully the bird soaked up some of the good vibes and more importantly retains them...

I hope to get a chance to meet and race with Mary next month at the CAM Challenge East.

[Panteracer]

Yes very,very hot.. cars broke with I heard thrown rod,
saw a front a-arm break.. I was real close on that turn
just before the spin and then driveshaft spitting out

Mary is a very fast driver.. I try to get somewhat
close to her times but she sets a tough number

Not sure if she is going east.. I did hear that Brian
had his two cars shipped back east for some events

Bob

[Panteracer]

My car just joined a very Elite group
The JackStand Racing team
Pulled my wheels I sold to Dale and
waiting on the forgelines to show up

No sure if I qualify for the team if it is only
down for a week or so... I guess I can do
the Clutch on the Pantera now

Bob

[Ron in SoCal]

I'm sure Dave will tell you, you qualify for a 'temporary' membership card. Permanent takes about a year. :lol:

Can't wait for the new wheel pics Bob. :cheers:

[carbuff]

Bob,

Are your rear wheel wells flared? They look to be in this picture. If so, how much room did you pick up? Did you do it yourself?

What about the fronts?

Hopefully your membership in this exclusive club is short lived. TOW just joined it again on Monday as well...

[waynieZ]

I'm a gold member!

[Panteracer]

Yes the status should be short lived
Need to try a 315 I have on the front
To see how it looks. If not 295's or 285's
The front fenders are pulled slightly

Yes the rear wheel wells are flaired
They were rusted out when I first bought
the car many years back. I have moved the
Offset 1" in on the temp wheels I had for a while
I believe I can run a 335 out back as long as I don't
Lower the rear too much. It was what I could get
On the flair back 25 years ago. No science here

Time will tell

Bob

[Panteracer]

So while I am waiting on wheels and tires
I decided to do the clutch in the Pantera
since I had a chatter. Pulled the wing,deck lid, mufflers,
shift rod, engine bay brace etc

My buddies were coming over tonight so we could
pull the transaxle I was going to steal the rivals for
the firebird. Pulled one side and while checking to see if the
other side was on the ground to break loose the lugs I
grabbed the wheel and noticed it moved. Checked it and thought
a wheel bearing was bad. Turned out the lower shaft was loose
Took it apart and the shaft was worn. My buddy had a spare
so will put that in and take it for a spin. I know this was the chatter
Will see for sure in a day or so

Bob

[Panteracer]

So Pantera chatter was not the lower A-arm
but good to catch that issue now...
Pulled the transaxel last night and the throwout
bearing actually was split on the side and some
ball bearings had come out.. clutch was really thin
so new stuff going in as soon as I get the flywheel
turned and the new assembly balanced

Bob

[Panteracer]

Finally got a shot of the slightly used
Throw out bearing out of the Pantera

Bob

[carbuff]

That thing disengaged the pressure plate at all? Wow...

[Panteracer]

Yes just started chattering slightly

Bob

[SSLance]

Wow... I think it was time to replace it. :lol:


This seems like something I'm learning with my car at this stage. Once I got my car mechanically sound and started using it a lot, I listen to what it is telling me and if something starts to sound or feel unusual...generally it is. Trick is to find it quick and repair it before something small turns into major carnage. Parts wear out or break...our hope is to just keep the accessory damage to a minimum when they do.

[Panteracer]

Funny as this really did not make any funny noises or
act strange until I felt a little chatter and figured it was clutch time
I used to replace the throwout in my 69 Z28 when I was a kid about
once a month as we cruised the car all the time and I think the
tranny had a bad bearing.. start to squeal and in went a new one

Bob

[Panteracer]

Well my new Wheels are installed.. fresh rubber out front Bridgestone re-71r's in front and threw my old Rivals on out back.. excuse time will be going away
soon.... car feels good on a little test run but an autocross will let me know
if I need to put some Rival s on the back

Wheels are Forgelines 10 1/2" in front and 11 1/2" out back
Beautiful set of wheels... paint on the back... ss hardware
nice rounded lip polished... Worked with Mark.. mostly bugged him
with all my changes etc but he put up with me and delivered the
nicest set of wheels I have ever seen.. and I have two sets of
Kinesis for the Pantera...

Thanks to Mark.. now brake upgrades and hopefully getting the
Bird faster with no excuses from the Driver:) me

Bob

[Panteracer]

One more shot closer of the wheel

Bob

[carbuff]

Such an excellent choice of wheels! 10" and 11.5" here, 275/315 tires. Wish I could stuff a 315 up front.

Which finish did you get on the centers?

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/photo3_zpsf8521646.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/photo3_zpsf8521646.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/photo2_zps796d5353.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/photo2_zps796d5353.jpg.html)

[Chad-1stGen]

Looks great Bob!

Also, nice save on the lower a arm and clutch. Always good to catch that stuff early.

[Panteracer]

Bryon,
Satin gunmetal... funny never thought they were the same as yours
was trying to decide for so long back and forth from many pictures etc
Mine do not have a center as I have not run any for many years

Chad,
yes good to find things like the lower a-arm
hopefully I will have that car up and running this weekend

Neither car was runnable so I was a bit cranky the last
couple of weeks:)

Bob

[WSSix]

Wheels look great on your car too, Bob!



Neither car was runnable so I was a bit cranky the last
couple of weeks:)

Bob

I know this feeling well. I'm going to miss weekend #3 waiting on clutch parts to arrive for the Ducati. Glad you're back on the road with your cars though. Have fun!

[carbuff]

Bryon,
Satin gunmetal... funny never thought they were the same as yours
was trying to decide for so long back and forth from many pictures etc
Mine do not have a center as I have not run any for many years


That's the same finish I have, but I think yours are the GA1, correct? Or maybe the WC? I'm not completely sure from the picture. Mine are the GA3 (not the R version). I like them all! :)

BTW, just in case you don't already know this (I didn't), don't use ANYTHING to clean the wheels that is acidic or not safe for paint. I'm going to be sending my centers back to ForgeLine to recoat them soon as apparently I've been using something which damaged the finish. :( I didn't know that was possible with powder coat, but it seems it is. I've been using the same product to clean wheels/tires since I was a kid, but no more...

Car looks great!

[Panteracer]

My wheels are the GZ3r.. yes the race version
for no cap.. they have a little more curve to them

Yes I understand the paints even though powder coated
can't take a lot of strong cleaners.. usually just use windex
on mine or car detailer that I use on the paint

Trey.. thanks.. I know what you mean about having
something down for a while.. need to have at least
one to run around and make some noise or burn the tires off

Heading out to Tues night cruise night shortly

Bob

[WSSix]

You guys can use a normal car wax on powder coating. This will help keep the wheels clean. I wouldn't recommend a polish though.

[Panteracer]

Finally got the clutch in the Pantera
Just a few more things to button up
Hardest part was getting the needle pilot
bearing out.. had to cut it up and it chisel out
as my buddies puller just tore it up

Its tough trying to work under the 180's and
in a painted engine bay
Bob

[instro84]

Well my new Wheels are installed.. fresh rubber out front Bridgestone re-71r's in front and threw my old Rivals on out back.. excuse time will be going away
soon.... car feels good on a little test run but an autocross will let me know
if I need to put some Rival s on the back

Wheels are Forgelines 10 1/2" in front and 11 1/2" out back
Beautiful set of wheels... paint on the back... ss hardware
nice rounded lip polished... Worked with Mark.. mostly bugged him
with all my changes etc but he put up with me and delivered the
nicest set of wheels I have ever seen.. and I have two sets of
Kinesis for the Pantera...

Thanks to Mark.. now brake upgrades and hopefully getting the
Bird faster with no excuses from the Driver:) me


Bob


Bob, i changed my side i'd rather have those wheels, i'm sending the simmons back :)

[Panteracer]

Dale that's funny
My buddy was going to buy one of my Kinesis sets
for his Pantera and then he waited and came back and
said yes.. after looking at the prices of the wheels nowadays
I said I was keeping them.. but the forgelines they are cool

I still like the Simmons but needed to go to more available
rubber for 200 tires along with bigger brakes

Hope they work out for you...they have been a good set of wheels
and they have won a lot of events for me for many years
including championships... so they are a trained set of wheels:)
Should have put that in my original add

Bob

[instro84]

hopefully your success rubs off on my buick, probably gonna try and hit some autocross sessions every now and then with it.

[chetly]

Hey Bob, my dad has an all original 70 t/a, well, actually two of them. But anyway, the engine in one of them is having oiling issues and has had to be rebuilt 4 times in the last year because of spun bearings and other things. It's gotten so bad he had to replace the crank and rods, went ahead and replaced the Pistons while he was at it. Then had to replace the cam so he went with a hyd roller with roller rockers. Is there someone in the Bay Area that you recommend to rebuild the Pontiac motor? He's about had it with the current builder.

Thanks, Bryan

[Panteracer]

Bryan
Pontiacs do not like hard right hand turns
Oil goes off the pickup and they starve and
Then you have spun bearings. Have done 9 motors
In my cars because of this issue. I have tried many
oil pans and none have seemed to solve the issue
Stef's could build one that I think would work

Sounds like dad spins them hard and leans on them
I found that a sump accumulator is the only real solution
He could use a canton road race pan and run an extra quart
But if he crosses or tracks it I know it won't last

My builder specializes in pontiacs. Victory machine 408 266-7570
ask for Vic and tell him Bob Benson sent you. No kickbacks but
When I send someone he knows they don't baby the motor

If dad wants to talk some more to me he can call my cell 408 209-7677
Would love to see and talk Ta's with him

Bob

[chetly]

Thanks Bob. My dad is quite the opposite. 75 years old, and just wants to drive the darn thing. He stopped driving cars hard when he rolled his triumph at riverside back in the 70's. I'll be sure to pass your number along though, so he might be giving you a call.

[Panteracer]

Bryan
I met the guy who bought my Pantera originally a few years
back. He was 82 and Autocrossing up at candlestick
The course was poorly marked and he had his second Dnf
He was so pissed he headed right for the trailer to load the car up
He was spinning the wheels going up the ramps!!

I went home and told my wife I hope I am that energetic when
I turn 82. I just smile when I think of that day
Sorry to say he recently passed

Bob

[Panteracer]

Been prepping the Bird for this weekends autocross at Marina
running Hoosier R7s out back and Bridgestones out front
Rear tires actually got me a ticket last night along with sound
Lady cop called them Bald tires..did not want to tell her they
were brand new... Rival s tires will be ordered next week but then
I will jump classes as it looks like I can only come up with second
overall in the points unless the first place guy breaks or is not there

Bob

[WSSix]

Good luck, Bob! The new wheels look killer. You shouldn't have taken that ticket :shakehead:

[Ron in SoCal]

Funny Trey! I'm sure she would've let dot-R slide :lol:

Bird looks great Bob :thumbsup:

[fleetus macmullitz]

Been prepping the Bird for this weekends autocross at Marina
running Hoosier R7s out back and Bridgestones out front
Rear tires actually got me a ticket last night along with sound
Lady cop called them Bald tires..did not want to tell her they
were brand new... Rival s tires will be ordered next week but then
I will jump classes as it looks like I can only come up with second
overall in the points unless the first place guy breaks or is not there

Bob

Bob,

Cool lookin' Bird. :thumbsup:

[Panteracer]

So Saturday with the weird tire combo the car stuck like crazy
I am convinced the Bridgestone works.. so Rival S out back next

Problem is I broke the car just before the finish line on the second run
We lowered the car recently and one of the U-bolts loosened and the
rear pulled backwards, spinning the car and damaging the rear Quarter
Also popped the drive shaft out of the trans.. we pushed it off
reinstalled the drive line.. tightened things up but need to align it and
reinstall the sway bar.... then bang the fender back and give it
a little body work... need to do paint this winter with the new hood
and nose so will deal with it then...

Still won with only one run but they must have lost my time
as it shows no runs that day

Went home loaded up the Pantera and ran it Sunday
Car was great and won my class by over 1 second

Heading to Cam t next

Bob

[WSSix]

Oh man, that sucks the car got damaged. Glad it wasn't worse. I've upgraded my car to 1/2" u-bolts and now run two per side instead of the one per it left the factory with.

[carbuff]

Wow, really sorry to hear that! I worry about that sort of thing happening after the major work we've just finished. We plan to do a full bolt check after driving for a bit later today (hopefully). Definitely before I hit the road Wednesday!

[Panteracer]

I call it racing but I think I could have
avoided it if I watched things more closely
They get tightened up pretty good but with
the spacer and wedge I could see where something
may have moved...

Good luck.. your system is a lot more exotic
than my base model leaf springs:)

Bob

[Panteracer]

Decided to take a couple of pictures
out at the Autocross the other day with
the backup car and pushed the setting on
the I phone camera and Black and White

Bob

[carbuff]

I love that car!!!!!! You have good taste in cars. :)

[Flash68]

Decided to take a couple of pictures
out at the Autocross the other day with
the backup car and pushed the setting on
the I phone camera and Black and White

Bob

The black & white photo looks killer Bob. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Next time move the trailer....



Great photo and love the black and white

[Panteracer]

Finally got to bend out the fender damage
and look at the tire... shortest life as a tire
for me.. one ticket for being bald (race tire on the street)
and less than two autocross runs... ordering up a new one today
as this tire is actually for Pantera to run at Laguna in a few weeks

Bob

[Panteracer]

Fixed the rear end.. double nutted now, tightened trans
bolts and some other things loosening up.. need to keep
track of things even though not much time on the car

Have the new Rival S tires out back... went up to 335's
So now I am in CAM T Class and will be doing my first
run in this Class at Crows Landing this Weekend... going
Gto hunting.. he is leading the class....loaded up and ready to go

Bob

[SSLance]

Have fun out there, Crows Landing looks like a GREAT place to autocross on.

[Panteracer]

Lance any day running the car is good
Crows is a fun place and with the American Autocross
boys they open things up a bunch so you can really
get on it.. last time is was a series of slaloms and you
could really work on them.. turn then hit one, turn and hit
another one.. you get good at them after a while

Still learning my Firebird so seat time is the best
Might have some rain tomorrow... I call it the great
equalizer

Bob

[carbuff]

Good luck tomorrow! Steve and I are going to a local auto-x that has THREE CAM-T cars! I think it's the first time I'll attend one that has more than 1, so I'm pretty excited. :)

What size front tire are you running again? That tire looks pretty far out compared to the fender. I've probably asked before, sorry if so...

Love this car. Surprise surprise. ;)

[Panteracer]

Tires up front are 275-18"...Bridgestone re-71rs
Might go to a 315 out front if I decide to do some
fender work... need to fix the back corner now,
have a new glass hood, and will also do a glass nose
to get the weight off the front.. like 100lbs so will
do the paint fixing then

I think we will have at least 4 in Cam T class... one
of them may be Mary Pozzi.. she is really fast as we
all know.. something to strive for

Good luck tomorrow and have fun as even though we
are competitive its all about having fun

Bob

[Chad-1stGen]

Have fun Bob!

[Panteracer]

So last weekends autocross was not so good for me
American Autocross boys like big tracks and gearing
and motor not really right in the Firebird.... brought the
Backup Car-Pantera and did a lot better Sunday but that is not
my Autocross car

Decided to make a big change and get rid of the 494 Mr-1 Pontiac
motor and go to a small block stroker that I can rev to the moon
Really don't want to go Ls because of all the injection, computers,
sensors, oiling,etc.. so probably a Dart iron block with alum heads
Was thinking about an old race car motor and detune slightly
but my engine builder pointed out they are already worn and
when it is time to freshen they are mostly done

So in the process the plan will be to take 200 lbs in motor off
the front plus a glass hood, glass nose, inner fenders out etc
so my guess is close to 350 lbs off the front of the car and
at the same time lets move the engine back

Need to sell the old motor- (my engine builder knows someone)
then start my new plan

Just finally got this car running good and decided that I cannot
spin it like my old CR 500 dirt bike...or my old Z28 so starting over again
I think it is a sickness.. but can't wait to get this going.. this will be motor 10
in the car but at least I did not blow this one up:)
Spin till you win!

Bob

[rustomatic]

Sickness pretty much describes it, Bob. Without it, what would healthy people have to be jealous of?:bang:

[carbuff]

Bob,

Sorry to hear you had troubles, but it sounds like you have a nice plan going forward! And I totally understand the 'sickness', I can't seem to leave well enough alone myself. :)

Have fun with it!

[Panteracer]

Bryan,rustomatic,
Yes both of you have the same sickness
It is a good thing

I call it hot Rodding

Bob

[OLDFLM]

What about a Pontiac 440cid stroker? 4.185 bore x 4.00 stroke makes for some good power and torque and revs like a small block!

[Panteracer]

Not sure that a 440 will come close.. I did one and it had
other issues but the rev was still only 6500.. I am spinning
the 495 to 6600 now with forged rods, crank, MR-1 block
splayed caps etc.. No one will tell me 8000 will work and live

Plus oiling is still marginal in the heavy turns
So winston cup tech.. knife edge crank, forged this and that
Just need to decide on cubic inches.. do I to a 358 or go smaller
or bigger

I am also trying to get the weight off the front of the car
and the MR-1 block is cool but very heavy with lifter bore
braces, caps etc.. it can go 545 inches

Bob

[carbuff]

Carbed LS setup with an external / aftermarket dry-sump (Dailey, A.R.E.). You get the benefit of the aluminum block, you can build any bore/stroke combination you want, and you resolve the oiling issues with the dry-sump. You get rid of most of the sensors with the carb, but you do still have to run something to drive the coils (unless you do a timing-cover distributor conversion).

Do it! :)

[GregWeld]

Carbed LS setup with an external / aftermarket dry-sump (Dailey, A.R.E.). You get the benefit of the aluminum block, you can build any bore/stroke combination you want, and you resolve the oiling issues with the dry-sump. You get rid of most of the sensors with the carb, but you do still have to run something to drive the coils (unless you do a timing-cover distributor conversion).

Do it! :)



Completely agree!!!

[OLDFLM]

Carbed LS setup with an external / aftermarket dry-sump (Dailey, A.R.E.). You get the benefit of the aluminum block, you can build any bore/stroke combination you want, and you resolve the oiling issues with the dry-sump. You get rid of most of the sensors with the carb, but you do still have to run something to drive the coils (unless you do a timing-cover distributor conversion).

Do it! :)

But you still have to paint it Pontiac Baby Blue!!!

I'd love to do a carbed LS in my car with a functional Ram Air air cleaner to work with the functional Formula hood! Someday...

[Panteracer]

Sorry to say my Pantera has had a Dart block
stroker for over 10 years now.. think I am heading
that direction..maybe a destroker.. but Dart.. not a real fan of dry sump.....

Was at one of my early Norcal Shelby events and a guy
with a beautiful flaired 67 race car.. 5 years in the making...
was out on the track and all of a sudden you could see a
big billow of smoke...his drysump belt fell off and toasted
the engine... Last open header day at Laguna the Total
Control mustang had the snout break off on the front
of the engine that held the drysump and a bunch of other
pulleys.. not sure what happened to that engine other
than a broken crank

Bob

[WSSix]

carb'd LS with a wet sump then. Or, 377 small block chevy. That will rev to the moon. Good luck which ever way you decide to go, Bob.

[glassman]

What Trey, Greg and Bryan said. there are other benefits to the LS design (besides all the sensors and computers). Different firing order, far superior head design, different * to the block....etc. You can have Pacific Fab do the wiring for you down in Morgan Hill if you do decide you want 450hp and 23 mpg, (they used too/still sponser here?)

Mines been pretty much bullet proof once done, too bad i keep messin with it...

[Panteracer]

Mickey
Going to need more than 450 hp
Thinking 600 like the Pantera
Finally gas mileage is my last concern

Will figure it out. 377 may be the cubes

Coming from 700 hp

Bob

[GregWeld]

Hey Bob... Did ya ever notice that EVERYBODY is switching over to LS power... carb or EFI.... Hey! Maybe they have some advantages? LOL:twak:

[WSSix]

If I didn't already have the LT1, I would have gone LS based even with an iron block. It's a superior design, period. If starting with a clean slate and wanting to be competitive, it's very hard to not choose LS.

[awr68]

If I didn't already have the LT1, I would have gone LS based even with an iron block. It's a superior design, period. If starting with a clean slate and wanting to be competitive, it's very hard to not choose LS.

Agree! I'm way too deep into my LT1 build to change now....but there are days I'm more than tempted to sell everything and go LS.

[Panteracer]

Still way on the fence on this LS thing.. really don't like having
to have any sensors... also worried about oiling problems
and external pumps.. been there on the Ponitiac originally and
it was an issue

I know tried and true in my dart small block stroker in the Pantera
that just keeps going and going..

My buddies mostly Mopar guys will not even let me talk
about an LS:)

Just don't need something that blows apart like my
old 347 stroker


Bob

[GregWeld]

That's an engine building issue -- not an LS vs SBC/SBP issue.... Motors are motors I've had a bunch of great SBC's and a few POS SBC's.... The Mustang motor couldn't make 3 laps with one engine builder - and is fantastic when taken to another builder.

There's no sensors required on a CARB'd LS motor.... only a coil (timing) controller made by MSD.... which is as simple as an MSD box on your distributor.. the big difference is you're not driving the distributor (there is none) and the oil pump off the cam.

[Panteracer]

So I did laguna last Sunday on the no sound limit day
Car was causing me issues all week long and I almost
gave up going. But the weather turned out beautiful and
my Pantera buddy was there with his trusty camera

This shot made it all worth the effort. My thanks to Skip
for helping me on the resizing

Bob

[DBasher]

Looks great Bob!
:thumbsup:

[carbuff]

Love that car..

:thumbsup:

[andrewb70]

....

There's no sensors required on a CARB'd LS motor.... ...

The MSD box still need a cam, crank, and MAP sensors.

There is another option, that some say works better than the MSD.

http://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech.com-vbulletin/800x533/80-700hp_smartspark_fb848d35784363689af51887479a30bcf 6bf7e0f.jpg

Andrew

[Panteracer]

Thanks Andrew for the heads up on
the smart box. Still need to get serious
and sell the 494 then move forward with a new combo

Really would like to run the bird on the track some day

Bob

[WSSix]

Great looking picture of the Pantera, Bob. Glad you had fun with it at the track.

[Panteracer]

Thanks Trey... taking a short rest before
I start anything new right now

Bob

[Panteracer]

So I did have a little issue last time at Laguna
Third session going into 2 with a Gt3 on my inside
and Viper boy behind me the brake pedal went almost
to the floor.... Found no fluid in the front reservoir

I checked everything before the event but the gaskets on
the covers are tricky and sometimes fall in and cause it to
leak... every time I mess with these there seems to be an
issue.. back was leaking because I filled it too much so I
kept resetting it as it was leaking... did not realize front was
also leaking between runs

This setup came from a Pantera vendor many years back..figured
out it is a step master with Chev Astro reserviors... front has
always been too small if it leaks anything so I just bought
two more setups and will cut them in half and use two of
the larger ones to fix this issue hopefully

Bob

[Panteracer]

Installed the new reservoir in the Pantera
Actually replaced both so there are new
gaskets etc.... now twice the capacity for the front

Bob

[WSSix]

Nice job! I hope this new design works for you, Bob.

[Panteracer]

Thanks Trey
took it out for a spin last night and all seems to be good
Going to drive it to Laguna on friday to hang out with Greg
and Chad... might take the long way getting there though
the backroads

Bob

[DBasher]

I had the opportunity to poke around a pretty bitchin Pantera over the weekend and got to thinking.....How the heck does Bob fit in this thing? If I remember correctly, when we talked at Thunderhill you and I see eye to eye. How'd you do it?

[DBasher]

Didn't matter how much fancy beer I drank, I barely fit.....maybe I should have had wine. This seat has been dropped three inches and I couldn't imagine working with a suit and helmet on. Still love them!

[Panteracer]

Sorry just saw this on me fitting in the Pantera
I have early Recaro seats that have little height, no carpet
or tracks so the seats are bolted to the floor with a bracket I made

Ok so Bird work
Finally started lightening things up... new front bumper just showed
up... approx 6lbs.. ... pulled the old one and was reading they have steel
and are 65lbs early car... mine ...but it only seems like maybe 20 or 25
Brackets that hold it in place are way beefy... pulling those, swiss cheesing
some others or replace with alum, pull inner fenders, ducts for brakes out
of the lower turn signals, plastic lights etc.. will see how this works

Wondering if I take all the big brackets and bumper out if that is really
causing a safety issue.. I know the car would be crunched but should
I put a push type bar across out of chrome molly or ??

Ricks SS tank going next.. going to do a fuel cell

thanks,

Bob

[carbuff]

Bob,

Maybe I missed it, but which bumper are you using? I had a VFN that I didn't use on TOW, so I sold it. Curious if that's your path?

Those original bumpers are heavy. Hard to say whether you should put something in it's place or not. If you're going into a wall of tires, it might be nice. But if you're going into something hard, I'm not sure how much it would help.

[Panteracer]

Bryan,
I have a Classic Industries bumper.. still in the box
until Christimas.... The originals on the early cars
are lighter than the next year as they were not able to
make the crash tests.. mine is the lighter one

Brackets bolted to the frame seems to be where most of
the crash impact comes from.. thinking of lighten them
or getting rid of them and maybe a nerf type bar to the frame

Bob

[carbuff]

I didn't know that they made/sold those. Does it have attachment points to mount just like the originals did? Interesting...

Potential 50# weight savings on the nose. TOW would like that! :)

[Panteracer]

Won't know about attachments until after Christmas
Wife ordered it for me.. I ordered something for her
We said we would wait on opening them

I also have a glass hood so was thinking of saving 200 lbs
with brackets, nose, hood, inner fenders etc... the lighter
existing nose might hurt my total because it was suppose to be
65lbs for a 70 and 80lbs for 71-74.. Maybe with brackets I can
get to the 200 lb savings

Bob

[Panteracer]

So pulled the radiator and upper cross piece
yesterday. Now to figure out what size alum
tube I am going to fab up. Will wait for Christmas
so I can see what attachments I need to fab for
The new nose

Bob

[WSSix]

Bob, does the upper cross piece unbolt or did you cut the top of your core support off?

[Panteracer]

Trey,
Cut it off Going to fab some alum up
and more than likely cut the sides down and use
Aluminum there also. Need to put the glass hood on
to see where things line up

Bob

[GregWeld]

The MSD box still need a cam, crank, and MAP sensors.

There is another option, that some say works better than the MSD.

http://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech.com-vbulletin/800x533/80-700hp_smartspark_fb848d35784363689af51887479a30bcf 6bf7e0f.jpg

Andrew





What I meant by no sensors is -- NO O2 sensors......

[Panteracer]

Greg,
Decided at this time to keep the Poncho motor
Figure out the accumulator had an issue and I
am going to change the gear in the car....
So going to lighten things up, do the brakes and run
it for a while to see how it goes

I really do not want to join the jackstand racing team
for a year or more... so baby steps and keep the car running
for now so no Ls

Bob

[GregWeld]

SMART!!!!!



Too many unused cars around here! LOL

[Panteracer]

Finally got back out in the shop and looked at the new
Fiberglass nose from Classic Industries... good to see it has
most of the stock places to bolt things up... I am going
to ditch the heavy main brackets and fab up some alum
pieces with a new alum cross piece... I am going to reuse
the sheetmetal pieces that hold the lights as they are really light

Trying to figure out where the brake ducts will be going

Hope to pickup some alum tomorrow so I can begin the process

Bob

[fleetus macmullitz]

Bob,

Enjoyed seeing all the improvements you're making to the ole beast. :thumbsup:

[Panteracer]

Thanks Skip
Did some weighing of things last night
Old Euro type bumper 41.7 lbs
Old upper cross piece 11.7 lbs
Two Big steel bumper supports 7.15 each = 14.3 lbs

So total is 67.7 lbs

New Glass bumper is less than 5 lbs.. misc alum 3-5 lbs
So thinking over 55 lbs off the nose
Need to see the difference on the hood next

Bob

[markaaron80]

nice

[carbuff]

Bob,

What upper cross piece are you referring to? In one picture, it looks like you removed the top of the core support... What did I miss?

[Panteracer]

Yes the upper core support
I am going to use an alum C-channel or tube
then alum sides with maybe a couple of angles
It will let me move the top of the radiator forward
slightly as it was tilted back due to the bottom needing
to move forward to clear the steering box

Bob

[WSSix]

That's some serious weight savings, Bob.

[Chad-1stGen]

Man the old bumper was some serious weight!!

Nice savings.

[Panteracer]

Car was 3710 a few years back according to Ride Techs scales
at the Good guys event.... way too heavy
I have taken a lot of weight out of the back of the car
Now it is time to get it off the front... although I am thinking
of getting rid of the Steves SS tank as it weighs a ton

Will also trim back the inner fenders and maybe remove them
altogether... will see how things go

My buddies and I are planning on buying a set of scales
so we can see where weight is going

Bob

[rustomatic]

All this talk of the weight of things today is making me wonder about how the Falcon will pork up with all the tubing that makes up its frame now. At least it's all going in the middle (which is a good thing, I think) . . .

I suppose cars are different from people in this way . . .

[glassman]

All this talk of the weight of things today is making me wonder about how the Falcon will pork up with all the tubing that makes up its frame now. At least it's all going in the middle (which is a good thing, I think) . . .

I suppose cars are different from people in this way . . .

I think that this is the only time weight is good in the middle...:RunninDog:

[Panteracer]

Did some more cutting and prep work today

[Panteracer]

So the front turn signals are going to be the new
brake ducts.... Ordered up a couple of new lights
with turn signals built in them.. and they are plastic
so of course lighter than the originals

Bob

[Panteracer]

Started fab work on new Radiator supports last night

Bob

[Panteracer]

Cleaned up my light supports
and mounted the new lights
I had to open up the back to get them
To fit. Also lightened up the bumper brackets

Bob