Anybody using FAST EZ-EFI 2.0?

[rchandler]

I am considering trying a EFI Throttle body to replace my carb. The FAST unit uses 8 injectors insted of 4 and supports more hp (Holly and MSD are up to 600 hp) as my motor is 680 hp. Just wanting to know if anybody has experience (good or bad) before i pull the trigger.
Thanks

[Revved]

EZ EFI 2.0 is claiming boost capable also and timing control. I can't think off the top of my head how much hp they are claiming capability for. Another thing to consider is the EZ EFI 2.0 Sportsman which gives a tuner backdoor so if you don't like what the self programming is doing you can also plug in and manually tune it.

[Ketzer]

I've been researching these pretty hard myself, wanting one for my Nova.
It's still fairly new and I think they've been a little slow shipping out, don't seem to be many units actually up and running. The ones I've read about are either they love it or hate it. The hates seem to stem from install errors or minor issues with the system itself (leaky O-rings, bad new sensors) but that is all internet chatter so take it for what it's worth...

How radical is your engine? These TBI universal systems seem to struggle with big cams (no vacuum) and high compression and I've got both.


Jeff-

[rchandler]

I've been researching these pretty hard myself, wanting one for my Nova.
It's still fairly new and I think they've been a little slow shipping out, don't seem to be many units actually up and running. The ones I've read about are either they love it or hate it. The hates seem to stem from install errors or minor issues with the system itself (leaky O-rings, bad new sensors) but that is all internet chatter so take it for what it's worth...

How radical is your engine? These TBI universal systems seem to struggle with big cams (no vacuum) and high compression and I've got both.


Jeff-

Yes, the cam is 258/262 deg @ 0.050 on 108 deg centers and 11.2:1 compression.

[GregWeld]

I am considering trying a EFI Throttle body to replace my carb. The FAST unit uses 8 injectors insted of 4 and supports more hp (Holly and MSD are up to 600 hp) as my motor is 680 hp. Just wanting to know if anybody has experience (good or bad) before i pull the trigger.
Thanks

Rob ---



Call Bob Ream at Imagine Injection in Phoenix and tell him I told you to call him. (602) 377-4093 or email him: [email protected]



He is SUPER honest and sells and installs a bunch of these - he will tell you yay or nay... and his technical help is invaluable if you buy the system from him. He has amazing knowledge about EFI in general.

[4mm]

There's a large thread at the other forum with a lot of unhappy customers. I would search for it.

[GregWeld]

There's a large thread at the other forum with a lot of unhappy customers. I would search for it.



Most of the unhappy customers I've dealt with have had piss poor installs. Some people just think they know... and then there are people that DO know. Big difference.

[rchandler]

Rob ---



Call Bob Ream at Imagine Injection in Phoenix and tell him I told you to call him. (602) 377-4093 or email him: [email protected]



He is SUPER honest and sells and installs a bunch of these - he will tell you yay or nay... and his technical help is invaluable if you buy the system from him. He has amazing knowledge about EFI in general.

Thanks Greg, I will give him a call.

[mitch_04]

There is a very long thread over on Pro-Touring.com regarding the 2.0 version. What I've taken from that thread is there have been (what I consider) minor problems with the kit, but the FAST customer service isn't up to snuff with helping correct them.

[GregWeld]

There is a very long thread over on Pro-Touring.com regarding the 2.0 version. What I've taken from that thread is there have been (what I consider) minor problems with the kit, but the FAST customer service isn't up to snuff with helping correct them.





That is why I recommend a reseller like Bob Ream.

[GregWeld]

There is a very long thread over on Pro-Touring.com regarding the 2.0 version. What I've taken from that thread is there have been (what I consider) minor problems with the kit, but the FAST customer service isn't up to snuff with helping correct them.

Is this the thread you're referring to?

"FAST EZ EFI 2.0 the elephant in the room"

If so I don't get the "long" statement. Like many of these threads this one has many posters that aren't using the product referenced. They merely state what they are using. If you took away those posts this would be a one page thread.

Finally like most of the efi issues I've dealt with almost all are self inflicted install problems. In this case the use of far too large injectors for the application. The other big no no is running efi and ignition boxes too close to each other. Or the good one. Separating them only to bundle the harnesses together at some point. DOH! The pretty much negates the separation doesn't it???


Other typical install issues are caused by shared vacuum source to the MAP sensor. Or the O2 sensor installed too far aft of the collector. Or bad welding of the bung allowing air to be pulled into the exhaust. I've also seen box stock MSD distributors installed without any adjustment of the timing curve or timing stops. Another issue I've found is the power source to the ECU. The battery is used as a "line conditioner" for these systems. I know the 1.0 systems ECU even come with a orange "toe tag" saying to connect only to the battery - yet people discard that info and try to run off some other point in their power system. All of these seem relatively minor things to the installer but they are not minor at all. Then in an attempt to rectify the running issues they only blame the system because they can't seem to get the system to be perfect via tuning. Kinda like blaming a miss on the carb.... they continue to attempt to tune the miss out with the carb
when it's really a fouled plug. LOL

Not trying to defend this particular 2.0 system. But the usual issues are usually NOT the hardware / software. Whether it's FAST EZ or XFI or someone else's brand.

[66SuperSport]

We had the first running LS engine with the new 2.0 system last summer. I won't lie to you we did have an initial problem, but this was taken care of and rectified quickly by FAST. This is a cammed LS3 that made 437 rwhp in a '66 Chevelle with a 700r4 trans and 12 bolt. We have over 3,000 miles on the system and my wife Lynda competed at the Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational in Nevada with this set up. The car ran excellent and I have no complaints.
Many will question why we did not simply use the factory EFI. This is an original SS car and we wanted to keep as much of the original feel as possible. This injection system allows for complete self learn of fuel maps, with manual adjustments as well. For our LS3 it also controls ignition. All of this with a standard intake and no fuel rails. Car is pulling down about 19 mpg on the highway too.
I would not hesitate to use this again.

[Revved]

There is a very long thread over on Pro-Touring.com regarding the 2.0 version. What I've taken from that thread is there have been (what I consider) minor problems with the kit, but the FAST customer service isn't up to snuff with helping correct them.

I hate to say it but that is the same thing that happened with 1.0. I did 3 installs on cars with ITB manifolds and all 3 of them have had issues. FAST tech support answer was to just reset the program and drive it... problems would tune in... then tune out...then tune in. They finally admitted that there were issues with the 1.0 system on ITB manifolds. There is a lot of "seat of the pants" adjustment that goes into putting a programmable EFI system on an ITB manifold that you learn with experience and these self-tuning systems just aren't smart enough to do it. They can only test so much at the factory and I think a lot of the trouble shooting comes from the real world, when as Greg mentioned, they are not installed or used in the optimal situations.

On the other side of the coin I sold two EZ 1.0 systems to guys with common plenum manifolds... one on a 500ci Caddy engine and neither have had issues.

I am interested to try out a 2.0 Sportsman system that has a manual tuner feature. This is something that knowledgeable tuners have been asking for since EZ 1.0 came out. I know it's a double edged sword but all programmable EFI systems are... they are adjustable enough for the hapless to make a big mess but in the right hands they make magic.

[mitch_04]

Is this the thread you're referring to?

"FAST EZ EFI 2.0 the elephant in the room"



No Greg, it was simply named "Fast EFI 2.0"
http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/95834-Fast-efi-2-0?highlight=Fast

I repair cars and sell parts for a living, I deal with "bad part" returns all the time, and it is frustrating when you can't tell someone they are not doing it right (bad for business). I'm not saying the 2.0 is bad, but if I end up going with it it will be after a few more months and some positive reviews. Many new products have growing pains when they come out, I remember one of my teachers always saying "Don't buy a first model year car" and it does seem to be true (to an extent).

I've been researching various bolt on fuel injection kits for my father who is looking to update his '67 Firebird's 455 (not very Pro-Touring, more old school ass-in-the-air and tires sticking out). I am leaning towards a shot in the dark, the Professional Products Powerjection, but I am also reading any reviews I see about the other options as well. His main concern with the switch (again, old school) is that he wants it to look like a carb.

[GregWeld]

No Greg, it was simply named "Fast EFI 2.0"
http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/95834-Fast-efi-2-0?highlight=Fast

I repair cars and sell parts for a living, I deal with "bad part" returns all the time, and it is frustrating when you can't tell someone they are not doing it right (bad for business). I'm not saying the 2.0 is bad, but if I end up going with it it will be after a few more months and some positive reviews. Many new products have growing pains when they come out, I remember one of my teachers always saying "Don't buy a first model year car" and it does seem to be true (to an extent).

I've been researching various bolt on fuel injection kits for my father who is looking to update his '67 Firebird's 455 (not very Pro-Touring, more old school ass-in-the-air and tires sticking out). I am leaning towards a shot in the dark, the Professional Products Powerjection, but I am also reading any reviews I see about the other options as well. His main concern with the switch (again, old school) is that he wants it to look like a carb.




So here's something I would add regarding this system. Don't put the ECU in the engine compartment.

These systems can be problematic with various RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) and high voltages from spark plugs / plug wires etc.

[GregWeld]

No Greg, it was simply named "Fast EFI 2.0"
http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/95834-Fast-efi-2-0?highlight=Fast

I repair cars and sell parts for a living, I deal with "bad part" returns all the time, and it is frustrating when you can't tell someone they are not doing it right (bad for business). I'm not saying the 2.0 is bad, but if I end up going with it it will be after a few more months and some positive reviews. Many new products have growing pains when they come out, I remember one of my teachers always saying "Don't buy a first model year car" and it does seem to be true (to an extent).

I've been researching various bolt on fuel injection kits for my father who is looking to update his '67 Firebird's 455 (not very Pro-Touring, more old school ass-in-the-air and tires sticking out). I am leaning towards a shot in the dark, the Professional Products Powerjection, but I am also reading any reviews I see about the other options as well. His main concern with the switch (again, old school) is that he wants it to look like a carb.


So there's really TWO installs in this thread.... one guy had all manor of electrical issues... and my guess is those issues were there well before the EFI system was installed. Low voltage at idle - inadequate charge at idle with various load items. Imagine now that he always had that issue.... but now installs an electric fuel pump (a new load) and an ECU - etc... once he provided ADEQUATE grounds -- and low rpm voltage - his problems were cured. He did discover a bad MAP sensor --- and that is something that shouldn't happen but it did.


The other guy that can't seem to get his running at all -- really doesn't provide us any details what he's done as far as installation -- or what checks he's done or what issues he's having or any pics of his car etc -- SO we're left guessing how or what he's working with.... and I can tell you for certain - that many peoples electrical skills and circuit knowledge are less than "stellar".

I'm aware of some delays in the 2.0 system inventory... too many sales? Or a manufacturing issue - or parts supplier... hard to know that.

The one install worked thru his systems issues -- which weren't his systems issues at all - but rather a weak electrical system and possibly some real poor ground issues. Once those were resolved he seemed very happy with his system.

That's what I'm usually trying to point out. These are DIY installs -- we have little knowledge of the skills of the installer - his electrical knowledge -- what all the parts of the "hot rod" are that he's working on etc. But in all the work I've done on these (and XFI) systems -- I've never once found the system itself to be at fault. When they're installed properly with a good working healthy electrical system... they do, in fact, work really well. That's not to say every part a manufacturer is going to ship is going to be 100% perfect because we've all gotten defective stuff. I know I certainly have.

I just bought a factory crate LS3 480 hp GM motor and a factory ECU.... the electrical on this car is far superior to most cars on the road... but it's going to the tuner because it constantly stalls and has too low of idle RPM's. All factory stuff -- and then talking to people that install these regularly = they tell me - oh yeah - they all need work because they won't run right out of the box. Okay... to the tuner it goes on Monday. I'm confident it's a very simple adjustment of either the IAC or the fuel mapping or idle rpm settings... To me it's no different than when I'd pull a carb out of a box --- and then spend a lot of time getting the fueling right... jets - pumps - accelerator pumps... idle bleeds... it was easy though because we've been doing it for years. EFI is new to most and there's a lot of knowledge "missing" or people that are right around the block that can come over to help.

[mitch_04]

The average person definitely does not understand fuel injection, I had a guy come into the store wanting his '96 Taurus fixed because it ran bad "when the choke kicked off". I'd just like to see more success stories with the 2.0 before I spend the money. There seems to be some good reviews on most of the other units, I'm sure with a little time we will see more reviews on the 2.0 (good or bad).

[TheJDMan]

I have been waiting and watching TBI EFI systems in general for about 5 years and they are just now getting to the point I am considering pulling the trigger on one.

[Sheck44]

Yup ... me too

[supremeefi]

Just remember ALL TBI systems are just electronic carburetors. They are prone to most of the same issues a carb would be, puddling, poor distribution, etc., apples to apples.
And as described, the self learning doesn't do everything. You still need to set you air/fuel table, spark table as well as cold start and transient fueling to some degree.

Before you pull the trigger on a PP Powerjection, check out their forum. There's a thread on their from V8buick. Over 900 posts to solve 1 problem, poor drivability.
Just be sure you know what you're getting into before you plop down your hard earned cash.

[66SuperSport]

So there's really TWO installs in this thread.... one guy had all manor of electrical issues... and my guess is those issues were there well before the EFI system was installed. Low voltage at idle - inadequate charge at idle with various load items. Imagine now that he always had that issue.... but now installs an electric fuel pump (a new load) and an ECU - etc... once he provided ADEQUATE grounds -- and low rpm voltage - his problems were cured. He did discover a bad MAP sensor --- and that is something that shouldn't happen but it did.


The other guy that can't seem to get his running at all -- really doesn't provide us any details what he's done as far as installation -- or what checks he's done or what issues he's having or any pics of his car etc -- SO we're left guessing how or what he's working with.... and I can tell you for certain - that many peoples electrical skills and circuit knowledge are less than "stellar".

I'm aware of some delays in the 2.0 system inventory... too many sales? Or a manufacturing issue - or parts supplier... hard to know that.

The one install worked thru his systems issues -- which weren't his systems issues at all - but rather a weak electrical system and possibly some real poor ground issues. Once those were resolved he seemed very happy with his system.

That's what I'm usually trying to point out. These are DIY installs -- we have little knowledge of the skills of the installer - his electrical knowledge -- what all the parts of the "hot rod" are that he's working on etc. But in all the work I've done on these (and XFI) systems -- I've never once found the system itself to be at fault. When they're installed properly with a good working healthy electrical system... they do, in fact, work really well. That's not to say every part a manufacturer is going to ship is going to be 100% perfect because we've all gotten defective stuff. I know I certainly have.

I just bought a factory crate LS3 480 hp GM motor and a factory ECU.... the electrical on this car is far superior to most cars on the road... but it's going to the tuner because it constantly stalls and has too low of idle RPM's. All factory stuff -- and then talking to people that install these regularly = they tell me - oh yeah - they all need work because they won't run right out of the box. Okay... to the tuner it goes on Monday. I'm confident it's a very simple adjustment of either the IAC or the fuel mapping or idle rpm settings... To me it's no different than when I'd pull a carb out of a box --- and then spend a lot of time getting the fueling right... jets - pumps - accelerator pumps... idle bleeds... it was easy though because we've been doing it for years. EFI is new to most and there's a lot of knowledge "missing" or people that are right around the block that can come over to help.


Three installs Greg.
Don't get me wrong, these systems are not up to what the factory units provide. It just depends on what you are trying to get done and how you want to do it.
I did not want to see a modern looking engine in our '66 Chevelle SS convertible. I did however want to take a couple hundred pounds out of the car, get the car's weight distribution better, and have fuel injection while keeping a retro look. I would not have taken the big block out if I had to look at a factory plastic LS intake. This system allowed us to install the original 14" air cleaner and keep an original appearance.
The FAST 2.0 system has worked very well for us so far. Only issue we have had was a timing problem due to the LS platform. With this being the first running LS powered car I knew we might have a few hurdles to jump. This was quickly resolved and we have racked up over 3,000 miles since with zero problems.
Bonus with a system like this too is you can take it out of one car and put it on a completely different set up. if I ever want to switch the LS over to factory EFI or put on a blower, the FAST system could easily be moved to my big block Camaro.

[GregWeld]

When done right - these systems can work pretty dang well.


I agree with you Chris... I'm not a fan of the plastic LS stuff.... yet I put one in Gwen's new '33... because it fits in there - and is light weight - and is reliable. I learned long ago that sometimes 100% "everything perfect" sometimes doesn't work - and a guy has to go with what will work/fit/afford/looks right etc.

[obengston]

I have posted on the other forums (some of you may have seen my post along with my you tube video of the 2.0). I do feel the system is very temperamental or effected by noises, but once I got all the "knowns fixed or addressed it seems to be performing well. I have ran it with nitrous several times and it performed great. I recently went to the track, and had some issues I need to try and work out. Issue being while on the trans brake then launched the car fell on its face, and would pick back up. I could not really tell if it was getting to rich or leaning, because I could not watch the AF gauge. Next day went on a side road an from a dead stop went WOT, at the same time it started to fall on its face I noticed it was leaning out. Now I can add more accel fuel which should fix that issue. Now at 45mph going WOT with nitrous,,,its perfect and responds great.

Also here is a site that you can also go to and see some common and not so common issues. Just do your research and know what your getting and what to expect.
http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/fast-product-support.html

[Ketzer]

Also here is a site that you can also go to and see some common and not so common issues. Just do your research and know what your getting and what to expect.
http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/fast-product-support.html

Wow! There's a lot of folks over there struggling with EFI. It really does show that there's more to it than "bolt this on. answer these questions, drive". I read several of those threads about the noise filters and faulty units but also fuel delivery problems, distributor problems, ground problems... like you said, "know what you are getting".

I'm not worried, I'm sending mine to Sun Valley to get installed... :lmao:


Jeff-

[GregWeld]

Wow! There's a lot of folks over there struggling with EFI. It really does show that there's more to it than "bolt this on. answer these questions, drive". I read several of those threads about the noise filters and faulty units but also fuel delivery problems, distributor problems, ground problems... like you said, "know what you are getting".

I'm not worried, I'm sending mine to Sun Valley to get installed... :lmao:


Jeff-




Installation is EVERYTHING.... and most "first timers" just don't get it right. There are a lot of "don't do's".... It's the don't do's that kill people.


The new SV shed should be ready for operation in about 3 months.... then "bring it on". Bring your mountain bike - and your dogs... A guy can't just work on cars without a break!

LOL



There's some "inside" knowledge about the EZ 2.0 that I'm not free to share. But I wouldn't buy that unit right now. And if you do - make absolutely certain it's not installed in the engine bay. And not anywhere near the MSD (or similar) ignition box.

[Ketzer]

- And not anywhere near the MSD (or similar) ignition box.

But it has to have an MSD to function. I would have mistakenly wanted to group all the electronics together and make it tidy.... then pulled my hair out (If I had any) trying to figure out what was wrong. I see how some of these guys get in over their heads. A lot of very simple/innocent mistakes could be made and the system never perform...

If and when I decide to FI my BBC, I'm making darn sure I've got my "injection for dummies" handy... and GW on speed dial.


Jeff-

[390 S code]

Have had a Fast XFI 2 system fitted to my Mustang for 6 months it has been great . Engine is a 433 Cu in FE high compression running a F&B Throttle bodies Tripower manifold . Car fired up first turn of the key no issues must admit though FAST install instructions could be better especially being so far away and with different time zones makes it difficult to communicate . I agree that the most important thing is ensuring to get the wiring done properly good power and earth connections.

[obengston]

I see some say "do not mount inside the engine compartment", mine is mounted inside the right fender well in front of the firewall, down inside the small hole that kinda goes behind your kick panel area. Further away from the engine than if mounted behind the firewall. If not mounting inside the firewall area is due to electrical noise.. Well under my dash area I have more electronic interference things, like Dakota Digital Dash, Power windows, door locks, alarm system, radio, more gauges, push button start box, A/C, power antenna, remote exhaust cutout box, multiple nitrous controls. MSD I mounted behind the driver kick panel (so its on the opposite side from the 2.0 computer), and I'm sure I'm missing a few. So my point is that its not really any better by mounting it inside if you have this going on, or at least I don't think it is. Where I have it mounted is about as far and isolated from anything else (but the unit itself), and its out of site. My engine bay is very clean, the only wires that goes from the unit to the engine is basically the wires to the TB.

I still wish FAST would have done something better to help protect this unit from electrical interference. Even though I have it running pretty good, if something happens its harder to track down. Just like the issue with launching and it going lean, I can only start guessing where to start.

As far as the XFI, someone mentioned having.. Different than the 2.0 as far as some of the issues people are having.

Again I just think it could have been protected better, but I'm happy with what I have (because its mine now). I have at least 1500-2000 miles on te unit, but everytime I drive it i'm constantly wondering if I'm going to start getting the notorious "Comm Error" from it and it shut down on me. So far I have not seen that from it since the second week of driving it, and fixing or re doing things that I thought may be the cause.

[GregWeld]

I see some say "do not mount inside the engine compartment", mine is mounted inside the right fender well in front of the firewall, down inside the small hole that kinda goes behind your kick panel area. Further away from the engine than if mounted behind the firewall. If not mounting inside the firewall area is due to electrical noise.. Well under my dash area I have more electronic interference things, like Dakota Digital Dash, Power windows, door locks, alarm system, radio, more gauges, push button start box, A/C, power antenna, remote exhaust cutout box, multiple nitrous controls. MSD I mounted behind the driver kick panel (so its on the opposite side from the 2.0 computer), and I'm sure I'm missing a few. So my point is that its not really any better by mounting it inside if you have this going on, or at least I don't think it is. Where I have it mounted is about as far and isolated from anything else (but the unit itself), and its out of site. My engine bay is very clean, the only wires that goes from the unit to the engine is basically the wires to the TB.

I still wish FAST would have done something better to help protect this unit from electrical interference. Even though I have it running pretty good, if something happens its harder to track down. Just like the issue with launching and it going lean, I can only start guessing where to start.

As far as the XFI, someone mentioned having.. Different than the 2.0 as far as some of the issues people are having.

Again I just think it could have been protected better, but I'm happy with what I have (because its mine now). I have at least 1500-2000 miles on te unit, but everytime I drive it i'm constantly wondering if I'm going to start getting the notorious "Comm Error" from it and it shut down on me. So far I have not seen that from it since the second week of driving it, and fixing or re doing things that I thought may be the cause.



My guess is that is in the works. There's just too much electrical stuff going on in a modern build to have an RFI issue.

The EZ EFI 1.0 does not have that issue... we are just referring to the 2.0 version since that is the topic here.