Thunderhill - NorCal Shelby Spring event

[GregWeld]

I've registered both my cars for this event.... So Sieg and I will be there... He's registered to drive the Lotus in Red run group both days - and I've registered to drive both cars in Green group both days.

In addition to that -- I've engaged Ron Sutton to come help me learn about tires - heat - heat cycling - pressures etc... So we welcome Ron to our little group of funsters!

I ASSume that Charley and our other buddies (Chet/Pete/Mike) will be there as well... so it should be a great time!


NorCal Shelby Spring Sprint
May 3rd and 4th
Thunderhill Raceway

For those of you interested there is also a DRIVING SCHOOL... and it's VERY AFFORDABLE so check out their website - come out and have some fun!!


http://www.norcal-saac.org


YOU DO NOT have to be a member of NorCal to register and enter the event!

[Ron in SoCal]

Sounds like fun Greg! Hoping I can make it. :bang: I called Matt too.

:cheers:

[Sieg]

Sounds like fun Greg! Hoping I can make it. :bang: I called Matt too.

:cheers:

You better!

I'll be debuting my new open cockpit track outfit.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Phone-Images/i-GSLbzvM/0/XL/20140215_124725-XL.jpg

:D

[GregWeld]

Sounds like fun Greg! Hoping I can make it. :bang: I called Matt too.

:cheers:

I hope some of the Lat Gr's can come and run.... If you're not running Hoosiers or similar racing slicks -- I'd either get some -- or run a group down from where you think you should be. Most of the guys are running on race tires...

There's fuel at the track. Plenty of space for trailers -- and motorhomes and that sort of thing.

Couple of Hotels there at Willows -- Holiday Inn Express and The Baymont Inn...Charley et al usually always stay at the Holiday Inn... Ron S is at the Baymont. Which is next door to the infamous Casa Ramos.

EEEEEEHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA

[GregWeld]

I really like your avant garde use of goalies gloves for driving.... they should be really good downforce in the event of front end lift down the straight!











You better!

I'll be debuting my new open cockpit track outfit.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Phone-Images/i-GSLbzvM/0/XL/20140215_124725-XL.jpg

:D

[Sieg]

I really like your avant garde use of goalies gloves for driving.... they should be really good downforce in the event of front end lift down the straight!
Goalie gloves.......Oh Paalease.

Those are actual handmade in the U S of A Held road racing gloves..........for motorcycles. :underchair:

Though I am eyeing a sexy pair of Simpson evening gloves and some cute RaceQuip driving slippers. :unibrow:

[clill]

For any of you that always wanted to try driving your car on the track but have no experience etc. This is a great event to get you feet wet with the driving school. This is the event I regrettably talked Greg Weld into attending. It has been downhill ever since. Great track to learn on because if you go off track here is not much to run into. They keep it safe and only allow beginners to pass in a couple sections etc. We all start somewhere.

From the Norcal site:
Saturday Driver’s School

The school will be led by OTEC head instructor Mike Camicia. The day will begin with a ride along-instructors driving and students riding. This will be at low speed and without helmets, allowing students to hear the instructor and see just where we want you to drive, AKA the Line.

After the ride along, we will hold a classroom session to review the Line you just observed. We will go over the flags used by the corner workers to control track safety.

During your first track session you will concentrate on driving the correct Line rather than speed. As students gain skill and confidence, speeds will begin to pick up while maintaining good car control. Later in the day we will move to lead-follow. This is where two students will follow an instructor around the track. The instructor will have the students leap frog into the lead, allowing instructor to observe and students to get the feel of passing.

Between each track session students will meet back in the classroom for download discussions. During these sessions instructors will discuss the progress of each student. This also provides time for students to ask questions and review driving concepts.

This school is a great opportunity for friends and family to get introduced to track driving in a gradual and controlled environment. Whether you want to become a track enthusiast or you just want that one-time experience, I hope you will consider joining us. Whether you want to drive the family race car or your faithful daily-driver, this is a unique opportunity.

[glassman]

Sooooo, i think i'm in. To see y'all and to do the drivers school.

But, my car is cageless right now, opinions????? It has new Morris 3pt belts and i believe it to be mechanically sound...but safety first....If its "slow" speed, is it doable????

thanx, Mike

[clill]

This is the perfect deal to get your feet wet. Run as hard as you want. The idea is not to go faster than you feel safe. We all start at the beginning so there is no shame in not being the fastest. Just come and get your feet wet in a safe environment with people that will give you good instruction.

[Track Junky]

This sounds like the perfect event for guys that have never had their car on a race track but have always wanted to give it a try.

Greg or Charlie.....let me know if the club will be short on driving instructors. I'd be more than happy to jump in and lend a hand.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Sooooo, i think i'm in. To see y'all and to do the drivers school.

But, my car is cageless right now, opinions????? It has new Morris 3pt belts and i believe it to be mechanically sound...but safety first....If its "slow" speed, is it doable????

thanx, Mike
Norcal shelby is a great club to run with Mike. Alot of great drivers.

No need for a cage Mike if your running easy.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

You better!

I'll be debuting my new open cockpit track outfit.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Phone-Images/i-GSLbzvM/0/XL/20140215_124725-XL.jpg

:D

LOL, you need a shave and a blonde flavor saver. haaaaahaaaa

[Sieg]

Sooooo, i think i'm in. To see y'all and to do the drivers school.

But, my car is cageless right now, opinions????? It has new Morris 3pt belts and i believe it to be mechanically sound...but safety first....If its "slow" speed, is it doable????

thanx, Mike
Mike - Just Do It!

As others have said it is a great track to learn on.

Regarding cageless, Section 3 - 3.2 http://www.norcal-saac.org/track/otrules.html


LOL, you need a shave and a blonde flavor saver. haaaaahaaaa

.........and wrinkle cream. :sieg:

[fleetus macmullitz]

Greg,

Wish I could be there.

I'm quite the shock clicker. :unibrow:



lol

[Sieg]

I'm quite the shock clicker. :unibrow:

lol

So you're the guy that sabotaged Ride Tech's shocks last year huh? :secret:

[fleetus macmullitz]

So you're the guy that sabotaged Ride Tech's shocks last year huh? :secret:

Wrong again Carnac...lol


263eG7HfwBM


Not me, I'm a giver not a taker.

:thankyou:

[GregWeld]

Mike (Glassman) and anyone else even THINKING about driving their car on the track -- this is a great event and venue to do it.

Despite Charley hating on you... and your trailer being smaller than mine... and on and on and all the crap you're going to absorb over the weekend... this is a hoot.

#1 -- Despite THINKING that you might embarrass yourself - and you will... get over it. None of us is some kind of pro driver. We've all done the off track excursions - spins - and whatever else you can do wrong at a track. Including the Stigielow.

#2 -- Despite his God Like status -- Charley is very helpful. Several times I jumped in the Mustang --- while he pointed out that my hood pins were undone... or asked if I'd checked my oil - or my tire pressure and on and on.

#3 -- It's more fun to do these things with friends... PERIOD. Going somewhere by yourself and screwing up - only saves you from getting dumped on for the rest of your life.

#4 -- Do yourself a big favor and tune Charley out when he starts a conversation with "You know what you need...."

#5 -- The regret you will have from NOT showing up, and the grief you will have to live with the rest of your life, is way more onerous than Charley, Sieg, Gaetano, and I on your azz all over this forum.

#6 -- Nobody is tracking your lap times.... nobody is keeping track of who you passed or who passed you... In fact - we're all too lazy to even watch what someone else is doing.

#7 -- If you have an issue with the car - or you just want to see what it's like -- or see the "line" etc -- ride alongs are always available (except the first session - which is a NorCal rule). It's fun to just sit there and take it all in while someone else does all the work. Amazing what you can observe when you're just riding along.

#8 -- Don't do a ride along with Charley - he gets car sick.

#9 -- Sometimes the Jackstand racers (or is it ricers) come up to hang out.. so it ends up being a great place to meet people.

#10 -- Charley always has a big BBQ and free Tequila and beer at his place on Sunday. No need to help him set up or buy the Filet Mignon or booze or anything - he provides it all. We all get to ride his race horses and he allows anyone to drive Mayhem or any of his other cars. It's so much fun to do burnouts in his driveway!!

PS -- If he says he doesn't really do this - it just means he doesn't like you personally. Don't take any offense at that.

[clill]

And then Greg woke up from his dream.

[glassman]

I'm in. Dates are clear. I will fill out the form and send a check tomorrow.
Should i do the driving school for Saturday AND do the open track (yellow group) for Sunday?

[GregWeld]

I'm in. Dates are clear. I will fill out the form and send a check tomorrow.
Should i do the driving school for Saturday AND do the open track (yellow group) for Sunday?



YES AND YES


EEEEEHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA


Don't forget to book a room.

[GregWeld]

I'm in. Dates are clear. I will fill out the form and send a check tomorrow.
Should i do the driving school for Saturday AND do the open track (yellow group) for Sunday?




So.... What sold ya on the deal?? Charley's BBQ????

[Sieg]

I'm in. Dates are clear. I will fill out the form and send a check tomorrow.
Should i do the driving school for Saturday AND do the open track (yellow group) for Sunday?

Awesome decision Mike! :thumbsup:

If you're lucky Charlie may have his new 918 Spyder by then and might let you take it out for a session.

[Flash68]

Sieg... has running car... likes to state this fact in front of others without running cars often. :twak:

Sieg... going to track... does not take running car.

Doh! :sieg:

:headscratch:

[fleetus macmullitz]

Sieg... has running car... likes to state this fact in front of others without running cars often. :twak:

Sieg... going to track... does not take running car.

Doh! :sieg:

:headscratch:

Sieg will STILL have a running car after event.

#FTW!

:lol:

[Flash68]

Sieg will STILL have a running car after event.

#FTW!

:lol:

:lol:

Ok, so being ABLE to do but NOT doing is > NOT being able to do and NOT doing. Gotcha.

:rules:

:action-smiley-027:

[Sieg]

Sieg... going to track... does not take running car.

Doh! :sieg:

:headscratch:
Just trying to be sensitive to your's and others feelings. I felt that taking a functioning PT car might be considered rubbing it in and you know I'm not that way. :angel:

[fleetus macmullitz]

:lol:

Ok, so being ABLE to do but NOT doing is > NOT being able to do and NOT doing. Gotcha.

:rules:

:action-smiley-027:

Dude gonna drive Lotus > dude drivin 45+ yr. old Camaro not ready for primetime.

:idea:

[Flash68]

Just trying to be sensitive to your's and others feelings. I felt that taking a functioning PT car might be considered rubbing it in and you know I'm not that way. :angel:

Back to my parents' basement. :buttkick:

:walkingdog:

Dude gonna drive Lotus > dude drivin 45+ yr. old Camaro not ready for primetime.

:idea:

It's good livin to be part of the entourage. That's not the Ron-tourage, for the record. :computer:

[fleetus macmullitz]

Back to my parents' basement. :buttkick:

:walkingdog:

Good times...good times. :thumbsup:


lol

[Sieg]

Here's a link to GotBlueMilk.com's photos from last years event:
http://gotbluemilk.com/web130420/

[GregWeld]

Dave --- I'd let you drive the Lotus - but Todd called and talked me out of it.

[Sieg]

Dave --- I'd let you drive the Lotus - but Todd called and talked me out of it.

:popcorn2:

[Flash68]

Dave --- I'd let you drive the Lotus - but Todd called and talked me out of it.

If I overload on Omega 3's and send you a shirtless selfie, would you reconsider?

[GregWeld]

If I overload on Omega 3's and send you a shirtless selfie, would you reconsider?



OMG that's the funniest response ever! WINNER!!


I choked I was laughing so hard...

[glassman]

I'm dying over here reading all the "banter"......once again in the words of "Rodney", tough crowd, tough crowd.....

Being a knee dragger, Sieg's gonna kick all our a$$es is my bet....nothing like throwing two wheels into slide on ASPHALT....i can barely do it on dirt (of course there was a tree there and i am smart enough to know they win).....

Oh but wait, this is not a competition.....just a bunch of guys going around a track...KISS....

[Sieg]

No a$$es to kick recreational adrenaline induction only! Try to get too big a fix and you'll go cold turkey for the rest of the event. :hello:

[Damn True]

Mike lives around the corner from me. Solid dude.

For any of you that always wanted to try driving your car on the track but have no experience etc. This is a great event to get you feet wet with the driving school. This is the event I regrettably talked Greg Weld into attending. It has been downhill ever since. Great track to learn on because if you go off track here is not much to run into. They keep it safe and only allow beginners to pass in a couple sections etc. We all start somewhere.

From the Norcal site:
Saturday Driver’s School

The school will be led by OTEC head instructor Mike Camicia. The day will begin with a ride along-instructors driving and students riding. This will be at low speed and without helmets, allowing students to hear the instructor and see just where we want you to drive, AKA the Line.

After the ride along, we will hold a classroom session to review the Line you just observed. We will go over the flags used by the corner workers to control track safety.

During your first track session you will concentrate on driving the correct Line rather than speed. As students gain skill and confidence, speeds will begin to pick up while maintaining good car control. Later in the day we will move to lead-follow. This is where two students will follow an instructor around the track. The instructor will have the students leap frog into the lead, allowing instructor to observe and students to get the feel of passing.

Between each track session students will meet back in the classroom for download discussions. During these sessions instructors will discuss the progress of each student. This also provides time for students to ask questions and review driving concepts.

This school is a great opportunity for friends and family to get introduced to track driving in a gradual and controlled environment. Whether you want to become a track enthusiast or you just want that one-time experience, I hope you will consider joining us. Whether you want to drive the family race car or your faithful daily-driver, this is a unique opportunity.

[GregWeld]

I'm dying over here reading all the "banter"......once again in the words of "Rodney", tough crowd, tough crowd.....

Being a knee dragger, Sieg's gonna kick all our a$$es is my bet....nothing like throwing two wheels into slide on ASPHALT....i can barely do it on dirt (of course there was a tree there and i am smart enough to know they win).....

Oh but wait, this is not a competition.....just a bunch of guys going around a track...KISS....



Keep that part in the frontal lobe and you'll have a blast.... Try to drive the car in front of ya -- or the guy pushing you into every corner in back of you... and you get the new nickname 'tasmanian devil'.

[clill]

Go to the Norcal site and download the tech form. That will give you a good checklist of stuff to make sure your car is ready. http://www.norcal-saac.org/track/

[GregWeld]

Sieg... has running car... likes to state this fact in front of others without running cars often. :twak:

Sieg... going to track... does not take running car.

Doh! :sieg:

:headscratch:




It's "Hugger" Orange.... He's sleeping in my rig. I don't want him getting any ideas in the middle of the night if you know what I'm sayin'.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Dave --- I'd let you drive the Lotus - but Todd called and talked me out of it.

If I overload on Omega 3's and send you a shirtless selfie, would you reconsider?

OMG that's the funniest response ever! WINNER!!


I choked I was laughing so hard...



Burn sessions>bench racing sessions.

We appreciate your efforts to warm up the globe in these parts.

:thankyou:

[Sieg]

It's "Hugger" Orange.... He's sleeping in my rig. I don't want him getting any ideas in the middle of the night if you know what I'm sayin'.
:secret: :unibrow: :gitrdun: :censored:

[GregWeld]

Come on guys! Who else is signing up??

103db sound....


Great track that's hard to hurt yourself on...



Driving school if you want it...


Various levels from beginner to intermediate to advanced... so choose which group you'd be comfortable in. I'm living proof that you can go fast enough in Yellow to spin....


$460 for about 10 x 20 minute session over two days... By the time they call for the 4th session on Sunday, you'll be too tired to answer the bell.



Fuel right there on the premises.... and a Race store in case you need something (sadly - they don't sell talent...or I'd have bought a case)

[Ron Sutton]

I've registered both my cars for this event.... So Sieg and I will be there... He's registered to drive the Lotus in Red run group both days - and I've registered to drive both cars in Green group both days.

In addition to that -- I've engaged Ron Sutton to come help me learn about tires - heat - heat cycling - pressures etc... So we welcome Ron to our little group of funsters!

I ASSume that Charley and our other buddies (Chet/Pete/Mike) will be there as well... so it should be a great time!


NorCal Shelby Spring Sprint
May 3rd and 4th
Thunderhill Raceway



Holy Cow. I'm gone for 2 days & there is a whole thread on this event.

Greg, thanks for having me come work with you. We're going to have some fun.

[Sieg]

Holy Cow. I'm gone for 2 days & there is a whole thread on this event.


Thread? :sieg:

That's an eloquent way of describing it. :D

Track Time coming! :excited:

[GregWeld]

Holy Cow. I'm gone for 2 days & there is a whole thread on this event.

Greg, thanks for having me come work with you. We're going to have some fun.





#1 -- It takes some of these slugs awhile to get their "sh!t" ready to go.... so giving them PLENTY of advance notice. Come to think of it - I shoulda started earlier


#2 -- Thanks for agreeing to come help! You have no idea what you've gotten yourself in to.


:>)

[SSLance]

I'm on a self imposed ban from track events until I safety my car up a bit, but this one almost sounds like it would be worth the 1,755 mi, 26 hours I-80 W one way road trip to join in the fun...

:drive:

[GregWeld]

I'm on a self imposed ban from track events until I safety my car up a bit, but this one almost sounds like it would be worth the 1,755 mi, 26 hours I-80 W one way road trip to join in the fun...

:drive:


Lance! That ain't nuthin'..... I'm going from Seattle - to Laguna Seca - to Fort Worth, Texas and back and I'm not even entered into the events! WTF.... Just shoot me! LOL

[SSLance]

Yeah but... I still work!!! :D

and have responsibilities that need tending too...

[Ron Sutton]

Hey Lance,
You were out here last summer ... but of course that was for a Napa wine country excursion with your wife.

[GregWeld]

Hey Lance,
You were out here last summer ... but of course that was for a Napa wine country excursion with your wife.



Ah ha!! So he'll come out to get drunk but not to run with his buddies! I see how it is now....

[SSLance]

lol... :D I already google mapped to see how far Thunderhill is from Glen Ellen... It just over 2 hours...

Not sure Barney will fit in my suitcase on a SWA flight...but that doesn't mean I can't swing out and just spectate (read supervise) for a little while though.

Have to run that one by the missus...see if she's ready to head back to Wine Country.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

lol... :D I already google mapped to see how far Thunderhill is from Glen Ellen... It just over 2 hours...

Not sure Barney will fit in my suitcase on a SWA flight...but that doesn't mean I can't swing out and just spectate (read supervise) for a little while though.

Have to run that one by the missus...see if she's ready to head back to Wine Country.

No need to squeeze it, weld would have come get it for you just to try your local BBQ joints.

[GregWeld]

lol... :D I already google mapped to see how far Thunderhill is from Glen Ellen... It just over 2 hours...

Not sure Barney will fit in my suitcase on a SWA flight...but that doesn't mean I can't swing out and just spectate (read supervise) for a little while though.

Have to run that one by the missus...see if she's ready to head back to Wine Country.





Yooooooooooo hoooooooooo Oh L A A A N N N C C E.......







http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Fun%20Fotos/Image-1.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Fun%20Fotos/Image-1.jpg.html)

[DaleTx]

Come on guys! Who else is signing up??

103db sound....


Great track that's hard to hurt yourself on...



Driving school if you want it...


Various levels from beginner to intermediate to advanced... so choose which group you'd be comfortable in. I'm living proof that you can go fast enough in Yellow to spin....


$460 for about 10 x 20 minute session over two days... By the time they call for the 4th session on Sunday, you'll be too tired to answer the bell.



Fuel right there on the premises.... and a Race store in case you need something (sadly - they don't sell talent...or I'd have bought a case)

Sounds like a fun weekend plan. Hanging out with the guys, getting in some track time, and watching Sieg drive the Lotus :sieg:

Thunderhill is on my list for doing a track day event. I'm not sure I'll have the car all back together in time for May... we’ll see how it goes. I’m a maybe.

[GregWeld]

Sounds like a fun weekend plan. Hanging out with the guys, getting in some track time, and watching Sieg drive the Lotus :sieg:

Thunderhill is on my list for doing a track day event. I'm not sure I'll have the car all back together in time for May... we’ll see how it goes. I’m a maybe.




Come on Dale! Put down the keyboard and get out there and put her together. Tick tock... tick tock...


Would be fun if you can make it!

[Damn True]

lol... :D I already google mapped to see how far Thunderhill is from Glen Ellen... It just over 2 hours...

Not sure Barney will fit in my suitcase on a SWA flight...but that doesn't mean I can't swing out and just spectate (read supervise) for a little while though.

Have to run that one by the missus...see if she's ready to head back to Wine Country.

Quick jaunt to the west gets you to Napa

[Ron Sutton]

I'm sure it will be a fun time.

The track days are always fun, but the stories & jokes at the bar Saturday night may be the highlight. I may even pull out a few of mine.

[GregWeld]

Quick jaunt to the west gets you to Napa




I don't think Lance really likes his wine.... I showed him my Balthazar of Quintessa (my son Alex paraded it around trying to steal it!) - etched, autographed, and everything as an enticement and he never so much as commented!

[GregWeld]

I'm sure it will be a fun time.

The track days are always fun, but the stories & jokes at the bar Saturday night may be the highlight. I may even pull out a few of mine.






Reminds me of the saying - The beatings will continue until moral improves! LOL

[Sieg]

Speaking of moral.........I'm ready for appetizers!

http://www.casaramos.net/images/fajitas.jpg

[SSLance]

http://www.speedinfinity.net/forums/Smileys/default/drool.gif

[Flash68]

Yooooooooooo hoooooooooo Oh L A A A N N N C C E.......







http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Fun%20Fotos/Image-1.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Fun%20Fotos/Image-1.jpg.html)

I know you know a lot of people, Greg, but I didn't think Borat was one of them.

[Track Junky]

I know you know a lot of people, Greg, but I didn't think Borat was one of them.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

BTW....Sieg, Lat-G make some new stickers? That Lat-G sig is cool :thumbsup:

[camcojb]

BTW....Sieg, Lat-G make some new stickers? That Lat-G sig is cool :thumbsup:
New logo in process, but it won't look like that. :lol:

[Sieg]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

BTW....Sieg, Lat-G make some new stickers? That Lat-G sig is cool :thumbsup:

No comment about the food?!!

I can't wait for T-Hill and Casa Ramos!

Funny thing about the Casa Ramos name is my Mother In Law's maiden name is Ramos.......which she "claims" is Portuguese descent. :secret: :D

Says something about my premature "artwork" experiment.

[Damn True]

No comment about the food?!!

I can't wait for T-Hill and Casa Ramos!

Funny thing about the Casa Ramos name is my Mother In Law's maiden name is Ramos.......which she "claims" is Portuguese descent. :secret: :D

Says something about my premature "artwork" experiment.

Could be. It's not an uncommon name in Portugal. Pronounced sorta like "Rahmozsh". My Mothers side of the family is Portuguese. Surname Dominguez pronounced sorta like "Domingzsh"

[Track Junky]

New logo in process, but it won't look like that. :lol:

Keep us posted Jody.....need a couple for my car.

[GregWeld]

Keep us posted Jody.....need a couple for my car.


What good is that going to do Jody... sitting in a garage??

[glassman]

So as i'm reviewing the data for this first track day event of mine, in the vehicle inspection section it says that if your batteries in the trunk (which mine is) it has to be in an "container". Mine is bolted down (pics on my build thread comin up this weekend), but do i really really need a container? Cause of sparks? impact? close to the fuel tank? what is the purpose of this? i am a "safety" first kinda guy and understand the "theory", just not on this one. Please "enlighten" me, thanx....

[Flash68]

So as i'm reviewing the data for this first track day event of mine, in the vehicle inspection section it says that if your batteries in the trunk (which mine is) it has to be in an "container". Mine is bolted down (pics on my build thread comin up this weekend), but do i really really need a container? Cause of sparks? impact? close to the fuel tank? what is the purpose of this? i am a "safety" first kinda guy and understand the "theory", just not on this one. Please "enlighten" me, thanx....

Even though these aren't "boxes" per se, they are just still called that as an example.

http://www.ubmachine.com/batteryboxes.html

[Track Junky]

So as i'm reviewing the data for this first track day event of mine, in the vehicle inspection section it says that if your batteries in the trunk (which mine is) it has to be in an "container". Mine is bolted down (pics on my build thread comin up this weekend), but do i really really need a container? Cause of sparks? impact? close to the fuel tank? what is the purpose of this? i am a "safety" first kinda guy and understand the "theory", just not on this one. Please "enlighten" me, thanx....

Actually that is a pretty good question. Why would they not require a container for a battery that is under the hood. NASA doesn't require the battery in the trunk to be in a container but they do require that the tops of the terminals be covered and allowed me to use duct tape. I never did ask them why even though at the time I thought it was odd but never really gave it much thought. :headscratch:

[Track Junky]

What good is that going to do Jody... sitting in a garage??

Trouble maker...:bitchslap:

[intocarss]

Great, you all pick a get together the weekend of a big dwarf car race and my B day. Wonder If I can sneak away :peepwall:

[intocarss]

Actually that is a pretty good question. Why would they not require a container for a battery that is under the hood. NASA doesn't require the battery in the trunk to be in a container but they do require that the tops of the terminals be covered and allowed me to use duct tape. I never did ask them why even though at the time I thought it was odd but never really gave it much thought. :headscratch: Maybe it's the fumes if any acid leaks, IDK ..NHRA doesn't require it and they are the king of rules lol

[Flash68]

Great, you all pick a get together the weekend of a big dwarf car race and my B day. Wonder If I can sneak away :peepwall:

Isn't that an oxymoron? :stirthepot:

[Jtomas801]

Isn't that an oxymoron? :stirthepot:

Isn't that what a blue camaro with ford stripes is?:mock:

How's it going Dave?

[Flash68]

Isn't that what a blue camaro with ford stripes is?:mock:

How's it going Dave?

Yes, yes it is. :smiley_smack:

It is going quite well, thank you for asking. :)

Hope to be doing more driving and less mouthing off soon. :stirthepot:

[Jtomas801]

Good to hear Dave, I have to do less sitting around and start working on my car more.

Actually that is a pretty good question. Why would they not require a container for a battery that is under the hood. NASA doesn't require the battery in the trunk to be in a container but they do require that the tops of the terminals be covered and allowed me to use duct tape. I never did ask them why even though at the time I thought it was odd but never really gave it much thought.

I can't remember where I read it but I thought if you have a sealed battery you didn't need a container. On the covering of terminals, it is intended to try and protect the battery from shorting out if some thing came in contact with the terminals, possibly in a crash.

Edit:
Per NASA CCR:
11.4.9
Battery
The battery should be securely fastened to the car. No Bungee cords or rubber cords may be used to function as the sole hold down mechanism. An electrically non-conductive material should cover the positive battery terminal. Any battery located inside the driver’s compartment should be fully covered and firmly secured to the chassis (or tub) in a marine type battery case. Dry cell, gel cell, and AGM batteries may be mounted without a surrounding case, however a case is still recommended.
Jon

[GregWeld]

Now to actually answer your question Mike.


NO it does not have to be in a container. Mine is not - it is however - securely fastened. The car has passed TECH about a zillion times.


You should be good to go.


In the days of LEAD ACID batteries - containers were used to keep the battery from being punctured and throwing acid all over the place. I think that's a rule that harkens back to the 70's.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Hope to be doing more driving and less mouthing off soon. :stirthepot:

Can't hurt to try sumthun new. :rolleyes:


GTOdayGbDzg



:D

[glassman]

Even though these aren't "boxes" per se, they are just still called that as an example.

http://www.ubmachine.com/batteryboxes.html

Its strange to me that its called a "box"...but i def understand the securing part.

Actually that is a pretty good question. Why would they not require a container for a battery that is under the hood. NASA doesn't require the battery in the trunk to be in a container but they do require that the tops of the terminals be covered and allowed me to use duct tape. I never did ask them why even though at the time I thought it was odd but never really gave it much thought. :headscratch:

Covering the terminals makes sense to me, probably from either something coming loose or "forgotten" tools causing an arc?

Maybe it's the fumes if any acid leaks, IDK ..NHRA doesn't require it and they are the king of rules lol

I was thinking that too. I know the NHRA is much harder on the "impact" rule...

Now to actually answer your question Mike.


NO it does not have to be in a container. Mine is not - it is however - securely fastened. The car has passed TECH about a zillion times.


You should be good to go.


In the days of LEAD ACID batteries - containers were used to keep the battery from being punctured and throwing acid all over the place. I think that's a rule that harkens back to the 70's.

Thanx Greg, so the box thing is probably what their refering to like in Dave's link. When its more or less a cage.


How many people out there are running "Optima's"? Spiral Cell tech or an equivalent vs lead based? just curious....

[GregWeld]

How many people out there are running "Optima's"? Spiral Cell tech or an equivalent vs lead based? just curious....




If ya wanna stay friends with Cam Douglas and Jimi Day - YA GOTTA run an Optima! LOL

[rustomatic]

So this is my first post here... I've been over on the p-t site for a few years, and while I love the various builds there, people over here talk about track days and stuff, so I thought I'd quit stalking and join. Now I can see the pictures...

After volunteering at the USCA event at Laguna Seca (last month?), I realized I needed to spend more time inhaling race gas exhaust. At any rate, I've signed up for my first track day at Thunderhill next weekend. On a dollar-per-hour basis, it seems to be a better deal than autocrossing, not that I've done a lot of that either...

I might have the oldest car out there. I'll be the one in the 1963 Falcon with terrible white paint (of varying tones, if you look closely) and quiet (old) mufflers. If you're lucky, you'll hear my brand-new throwout bearing squeal.

I don't have track tires, but I do have a motorcycle helmet.

[Sieg]

Welcome to Lat-G :thumbsup:

Being there and participating is more important than the caliber of car you're driving. Do the best you can with what ya got. :D

[Track Junky]

So this is my first post here... I've been over on the p-t site for a few years, and while I love the various builds there, people over here talk about track days and stuff, so I thought I'd quit stalking and join. Now I can see the pictures...

After volunteering at the USCA event at Laguna Seca (last month?), I realized I needed to spend more time inhaling race gas exhaust. At any rate, I've signed up for my first track day at Thunderhill next weekend. On a dollar-per-hour basis, it seems to be a better deal than autocrossing, not that I've done a lot of that either...

I might have the oldest car out there. I'll be the one in the 1963 Falcon with terrible white paint (of varying tones, if you look closely) and quiet (old) mufflers. If you're lucky, you'll hear my brand-new throwout bearing squeal.

I don't have track tires, but I do have a motorcycle helmet.

Looking forward to seeing you out there. Love them old Falcons in race trim :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

So this is my first post here... I've been over on the p-t site for a few years, and while I love the various builds there, people over here talk about track days and stuff, so I thought I'd quit stalking and join. Now I can see the pictures...

After volunteering at the USCA event at Laguna Seca (last month?), I realized I needed to spend more time inhaling race gas exhaust. At any rate, I've signed up for my first track day at Thunderhill next weekend. On a dollar-per-hour basis, it seems to be a better deal than autocrossing, not that I've done a lot of that either...

I might have the oldest car out there. I'll be the one in the 1963 Falcon with terrible white paint (of varying tones, if you look closely) and quiet (old) mufflers. If you're lucky, you'll hear my brand-new throwout bearing squeal.

I don't have track tires, but I do have a motorcycle helmet.





Look for this rag tag group... Toss in a Black Mustang...






http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_1531.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_1531.jpg.html)

[GregWeld]

Track Junky AKA "Little G" will be there too.... so look for him. You'll know the difference because he'll always be working on his car... while the rest of us will be sitting in the shade.






http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Toterhome/file-48.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Toterhome/file-48.jpg.html)

[Track Junky]

Track Junky AKA "Little G" will be there too.... so look for him. You'll know the difference because he'll always be working on his car... while the rest of us will be sitting in the shade.






http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Toterhome/file-48.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Toterhome/file-48.jpg.html)

True story....and with game face on :D

[Ron Sutton]

LOL!


I can't wait. This is going to be fun. :popcorn2:

[rustomatic]

Thanks for the welcome, guys. Track Junky lives down the street from me (or maybe used to), but you tend to see more Maseratis, Ferraris, and Porsches in these parts than Camaros. My Falcon does have a cool euro-style mirror, however...

I'll try to keep my rolling paint recycling event far enough from your pretty Mustangs and whatnot, so as not to create any allergies.

Here's to not needing a re-body by Sunday--then again, I'll be in "school," so I surely won't be going fast enough to worry about any kind of gymnastic events...:EmoteClueless:

[Track Junky]

Im still here buddy :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Thanks for the welcome, guys. Track Junky lives down the street from me (or maybe used to), but you tend to see more Maseratis, Ferraris, and Porsches in these parts than Camaros. My Falcon does have a cool euro-style mirror, however...

I'll try to keep my rolling paint recycling event far enough from your pretty Mustangs and whatnot, so as not to create any allergies.

Here's to not needing a re-body by Sunday--then again, I'll be in "school," so I surely won't be going fast enough to worry about any kind of gymnastic events...:EmoteClueless:




Oh really?? My Son Alex was in the Yellow group -- i.e., the "slow" group/Beginner group too.....







http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Lotus/Laguna%20Seca%202013/file-23.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Lotus/Laguna%20Seca%202013/file-23.jpg.html)

[Track Junky]

Thanks for the welcome, guys. Track Junky lives down the street from me (or maybe used to), but you tend to see more Maseratis, Ferraris, and Porsches in these parts than Camaros. My Falcon does have a cool euro-style mirror, however...

I'll try to keep my rolling paint recycling event far enough from your pretty Mustangs and whatnot, so as not to create any allergies.

Here's to not needing a re-body by Sunday--then again, I'll be in "school," so I surely won't be going fast enough to worry about any kind of gymnastic events...:EmoteClueless:

With all of that practice up and down Salmon Falls Road T-Hill should be a cake walk for you. :unibrow:

[glassman]

I'm chomping at the bit.
The coach is ready.
Got new shoes for the rear of blue car (wasn't sure as my bfg's were 7 years old but still plenty of tread) and this isn't a ASCS event and i couldn't find it in the NorCal Shelby group stuff, so rather than taking a chance i got so NT05's for da rear.

Fresh oil. No leaks on the car anywhere. Passes tech from my perspective and checks out on the list.

Any idea on letters? where to buy?

Also, i think they missed my "school" sign up, do i just tell them friday at check in? i guess so as i cant get to them via email /website.

Do wish i had my cage done and harness's in though.

[clill]

Not sure what you mean by letters. If you mean #'s they will probably have big meatball stickers and a felt pen to write your # on. Please new guys check the stuff on the check list and more. It will be a fun weekend. It's a great track to run and learn on and the Shelby Club welcomes all newcomers, even non Fords. Casa Ramos has killer Al Pastor Tacos and Margaritas...I'm starting to drool thinking about those tacos.

[GregWeld]

I'm chomping at the bit.
The coach is ready.
Got new shoes for the rear of blue car (wasn't sure as my bfg's were 7 years old but still plenty of tread) and this isn't a ASCS event and i couldn't find it in the NorCal Shelby group stuff, so rather than taking a chance i got so NT05's for da rear.

Fresh oil. No leaks on the car anywhere. Passes tech from my perspective and checks out on the list.

Any idea on letters? where to buy?

Also, i think they missed my "school" sign up, do i just tell them friday at check in? i guess so as i cant get to them via email /website.

Do wish i had my cage done and harness's in though.





MASKING TAPE -- BUT NOT THE CHEAP TAN TYPE --- Get BLUE or GREEN because the sun won't make it ruin your car then.


See ya Friday!


I'd email them just to make sure.

[glassman]

Tanks Greg & C. I meant #'s and i read the rules and its a minimum of 10" tall and 1" wide on the "font". I'm going by a vinyl shop tomorrow near my shop to see, i need 4 "8"'s and two "6"'s or "9"'s, as 889 is what they gave me. I hope it doesn't turn into 688.

[96z28ss]

Heading to Cali tomorrow morning for a couple days to do some work.
If I had paid attention or seen this thread earlier I would of stayed the weekend to hang out.

[Flash68]

So this is my first post here... I've been over on the p-t site for a few years, and while I love the various builds there, people over here talk about track days and stuff, so I thought I'd quit stalking and join. Now I can see the pictures...

After volunteering at the USCA event at Laguna Seca (last month?), I realized I needed to spend more time inhaling race gas exhaust. At any rate, I've signed up for my first track day at Thunderhill next weekend. On a dollar-per-hour basis, it seems to be a better deal than autocrossing, not that I've done a lot of that either...

I might have the oldest car out there. I'll be the one in the 1963 Falcon with terrible white paint (of varying tones, if you look closely) and quiet (old) mufflers. If you're lucky, you'll hear my brand-new throwout bearing squeal.

I don't have track tires, but I do have a motorcycle helmet.

Welcome to the best damn forum on the internet. :hello:

Great year Falcon.... I'll be there with these hooligans and look forward to seein everybody.

You too Weld.

Heading to Cali tomorrow morning for a couple days to do some work.
If I had paid attention or seen this thread earlier I would of stayed the weekend to hang out.

Well you really blew that one Bob. :twak:

[Sieg]

GW - Will this work?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Dh44F43/0/XL/i-Dh44F43-XL.jpg

[Track Junky]

If 8 1/2" is the same as 10" in your book then yes.

[Sieg]

If 8 1/2" is the same as 10" in your book then yes.

It's a pint-sized car. :snapout: Are the corner workers visually impaired? :headscratch:

Problem is I can cut the numbers 10" but not a rondel to accommodate 10" numbers but I can fit 10" numbers in a rectangle.

[Track Junky]

Hey man....don't shoot the messenger....I didn't make the rules :rules:

[intocarss]

What run group are you in tracky?

[GregWeld]

GW - Will this work?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Dh44F43/0/XL/i-Dh44F43-XL.jpg




Rules are always open to "interpretation".... and they look fine to me.... and WTF do I care -- YOU are the one going to get black flagged if they don't like 'em.


I'm guessing they're just fine. It's all about "scale".... LOL

[GregWeld]

BTW --- You don't need to print BLACK numbers -- it's going on a BLACK car...


Just cut the Rondel and we can cut the numbers out and use the black paint as the numbers in the white field... :>)

[Track Junky]

What run group are you in tracky?

I wanted to sign up for blue(race group) but looks like they only run on Sunday so I signed up for green(expert) for Saturday.

All still contingent on whether car gets done or not. If it cant be ready for Saturday I'll run with the race group on Sunday. Way less cars in that group. Don't like running Sundays cause then I'm beat the next day for work but this time around would be worth it.

Then again, all contingent on whether car will be ready or not.

[Sieg]

BTW --- You don't need to print BLACK numbers -- it's going on a BLACK car...


Just cut the Rondel and we can cut the numbers out and use the black paint as the numbers in the white field... :>)

That's the way it's set up rondele with 6 dots. :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

My vinyl numbers are 9.5" tall (like it matters) but that's closer to 10" than yours I guess Sieg. :action-smiley-027:

I see NASA wants 10" but Gaetano's friends at NCRC want 8".

[Sieg]

My vinyl numbers are 9.5" tall (like it matters) but that's closer to 10" than yours I guess Sieg. :action-smiley-027:

I see NASA wants 10" but Gaetano's friends at NCRC want 8".

I just made 3 888 rondeles with 9.75" numbers. Tweaked the font to the ugly side and Got R' Done. :action-smiley-027:

[Track Junky]

Congratulations Sieg. You have now stepped up to the same category as DG. 1/2" short. :action-smiley-027:

[GregWeld]

That's the way it's set up rondele with 6 dots. :thumbsup:



Ah ha! You're so damn clever!! LOL





My vinyl numbers are 9.5" tall (like it matters) but that's closer to 10" than yours I guess Sieg. :action-smiley-027:

I see NASA wants 10" but Gaetano's friends at NCRC want 8".




Is that so you can see them in a dark GARAGE.... Up on the jackstands...




Congratulations Sieg. You have now stepped up to the same category as DG. 1/2" short. :action-smiley-027:






It's always the same story for him...

[mdprovee]

I am going to try and get up here Saturday and just hang out.

[Ron Sutton]

So this is how it's going to be. :lol:

[Sieg]

So this is how it's going to be. :lol:

Absolutely! Wouldn't have it any other way! We're just laying some rubber down on the track, qualifying doesn't start until Friday night. :lol:

[Track Junky]

And the award ceremony for fastest bench racer is on Saturday night.

[GregWeld]

So this is how it's going to be. :lol:




YES.... and it goes downhill from here.

[GregWeld]

I am going to try and get up here Saturday and just hang out.



GOOD! See ya then buddy!

[Panteracer]

I ran almost all of the events with Norcal Shelby for a few years
Great group.. I even know many of the Otec guys-track gods

They are fairly flexible on things such as numbers... safety
is a lot more important to them

Wish I was going but my back is still acting up

Have a good time and be safe.. It is all about fun
and hanging out.... that driving with red mist in your
eyes trying to catch the guy in front of you will bite you
every time..... look for some clear track and drive your lines

Panteracer.. Norcal Bob

[GregWeld]

I ran almost all of the events with Norcal Shelby for a few years
Great group.. I even know many of the Otec guys-track gods

They are fairly flexible on things such as numbers... safety
is a lot more important to them

Wish I was going but my back is still acting up

Have a good time and be safe.. It is all about fun
and hanging out.... that driving with red mist in your
eyes trying to catch the guy in front of you will bite you
every time..... look for some clear track and drive your lines

Panteracer.. Norcal Bob



At first I was kind of annoyed when they'd black flag me --- call me in --- ask me why I wobbled in turn such and such... and I'm thinking -- DUDE! Really? It was an epic save...

Now I realize -- they want you to have fun -- and you should only be hitting 9/10th's and not have to do any "epic saves"... Some times I'm a slow learner but I get it now.

[Panteracer]

When I first started tracking I came up on
a slower guy that decided he did not want
me to pass ... there were only a few passing
Zones as I was not in the Blue group yet and
I was all over this guy for a couple of laps before
barely getting by... they later pulled him off the
track for a while.. I realized that his stupidity was
causing my stupidity... I should have pulled into the
hot pits and gave them I want more room sign
and went back out.. lucky I did not wad my car up
or hurt him, myself or someone else

I love clear track but as you keep doing it you
find someone you can trust and dice back and
forth without any issues.. My Viper buddy and
also one of my Pantera buddies can go lap by lap
and side by side but we know each others driving
this is the fun stuff where no one cares who is faster:catfight:

Panteracer Norcal Bob

[Damn True]

When I first started tracking I came up on
a slower guy that decided he did not want
me to pass ... there were only a few passing
Zones as I was not in the Blue group yet and
I was all over this guy for a couple of laps before
barely getting by... they later pulled him off the
track for a while.. I realized that his stupidity was
causing my stupidity... I should have pulled into the
hot pits and gave them I want more room sign
and went back out.. lucky I did not wad my car up
or hurt him, myself or someone else

I love clear track but as you keep doing it you
find someone you can trust and dice back and
forth without any issues.. My Viper buddy and
also one of my Pantera buddies can go lap by lap
and side by side but we know each others driving
this is the fun stuff where no one cares who is faster:catfight:

Panteracer Norcal Bob

Wise words those. It can't be stated often enough that it isn't racing and nobody wins a track day.

....you can certainly lose though.

[rustomatic]

Gosh, does this mean I need bumpers and brakes?

Oh really?? My Son Alex was in the Yellow group -- i.e., the "slow" group/Beginner group too.....







http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Lotus/Laguna%20Seca%202013/file-23.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Lotus/Laguna%20Seca%202013/file-23.jpg.html)

[Sieg]

Gosh, does this mean I need bumpers and brakes?

Nope, just car control and common sense. :D

[Panteracer]

If you really want to race your car there is a small
group that is running at Thunderhill this Monday
Checkered flag... they do not want beginners.
They have not had any contact or issues for years
so again safety is their Moto also.
They have three run groups, b novice, a seasoned
and the Race group.. To get to the Race group you
have to run with them for a while and if you want to
move up they will review and if ok will give you a license
All classes run together.. points thing etc.. Porsches, Lambos,
Massaretti, Vettes and misc

Group was started by a few Pantera owners way back
They don't even have Panteras any more but welcome us
Great people... small run groups

Head guy told me that many of the guys who run in B group
could actually run in the race group or A but they are happy
to run in B group.. Again it is about having fun and hanging
out as Greg W. says

A bunch of Pantera guys are going to run at Thunderhill
on the 5 mile track this October

Good times

Panteracer Norcal Bob

[Sieg]

LET'S ROLL! :cheering:

[Track Junky]

Visited the shop yesterday. Upper shock mounts are tacked in. Still need to complete the welding on those. Sheet metal fill in is cut for fuel cell, just needs to be welded in, fuel line needs to be run and vent installed. Wiring for dash is there but faceplate for dash/gauges needs fabricated, installed, and all connected. We'll be doing a Saturday thrash to try and make it up ther sunday. :gitrdun:

[rustomatic]

Bondo + tape + safety wire = ready! Maybe I meant chicken wire...

Visited the shop yesterday. Upper shock mounts are tacked in. Still need to complete the welding on those. Sheet metal fill in is cut for fuel cell, just needs to be welded in, fuel line needs to be run and vent installed. Wiring for dash is there but faceplate for dash/gauges needs fabricated, installed, and all connected. We'll be doing a Saturday thrash to try and make it up ther sunday. :gitrdun:

[Track Junky]

Bondo + tape + safety wire = ready! Maybe I meant chicken wire...

LOL. Hope I see you up ther Sunday. Love that Falcon.

[Ron in SoCal]

Need a track day report fellas.

[GregWeld]

Bondo + tape + safety wire = ready! Maybe I meant chicken wire...



We all waited all day for you to come over!! WTF happened to ya??



Come over and say hi!

[Damn True]

Hope everyone is having a good and safe time. There'd better be pics/video toute' sweet.

[Sieg]

Hope everyone is having a good and safe time. There'd better be pics/video toute' sweet.
Soon as I have WiFi to upload to YouTube!

Awesome weekend, only way it could have been better was no sound black flags. Little Lotus got hit twice! If you heard it person you'd never believe it.:waveflag:

[mdprovee]

Had fun just bull$hitting with you guys Saturday. Thanks for the hospitality to me and my boys. They want to go again.

[GregWeld]

I'll let this tell the story of my running Thill - running the Cyclone not the bypass...


Remember this is an old 4 speed clunker running leaf springs -- on 245 X 16's R6's... small brakes (two piston front and single piston rear C4 stuff)...


Best time was actually a 2:08.36



When RON SUTTON started with me on Saturday -- I was running 2:20's and finished Saturday with 2:13's -- started Sunday with 2:13's and ended with the below times. HE'S MORE THAN AMAZING!!! Just holy wow..

Like I said to him --- he shoulda billed me after Sunday afternoon 'cause I'd have paid him TWICE what he charged. LOL




http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_5520.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_5520.jpg.html)

[Ron in SoCal]

12 seconds in two days. That all you got? :D

Great job Greg! :cheers:

[SSLance]

I wonder how much Ron would charge to come out to KC for a Sunday afternoon... :D I could've used him on site yesterday.

Great work Greg, nice pickup on times. Did it feel better too as it got faster?

[Damn True]

So Greg, were the adjustments made to the car or the loose nut behind the wheel?

What changes did you make over the course of the weekend?

[Sieg]

So Greg, were the adjustments made to the car or the loose nut behind the wheel?

What changes did you make over the course of the weekend?

Numerous change were made to the loose wheel nut, problem was that split washers, star washers, Loctite, and safety wire would not retain that dang nut. We should have tried Silly putty.

[clill]

Met Ron for the first time at the track. Very nice guy that seems to really enjoy helping others gather the skills and data needed to go faster. Weld was bitching about the car not handling right. Ron digs out his durometer and shows Greg a tire that is hard as a rock. They change tires and Weld is happy again. Anybody wanting to advance in race car knowledge should be able to learn something from Ron. I really enjoyed the fact that Greg was bugging Ron all weekend instead of me.

[GregWeld]

I wonder how much Ron would charge to come out to KC for a Sunday afternoon... :D I could've used him on site yesterday.

Great work Greg, nice pickup on times. Did it feel better too as it got faster?



You don't go faster, unless it feels better......



If that makes sense. Does to me.




So Greg, were the adjustments made to the car or the loose nut behind the wheel?

What changes did you make over the course of the weekend?





Even though the set on the car was "relatively new" - one had a durometer reading that said it was "hard". I had gone out for a session and came in (first session) and we discussed (after Ron measured things 10 ways to Sunday).... the handling. When I FINALLY shut up -- Ron said -- The right front was causing the exact issue I was describing... and the choice was to replace that tire.... I replaced them all. Next session the issue I had described went away... and when I came in I was asked if the car was locking up the rear brakes anywhere.... "why yes! as a matter of fact they do".... He says --- The rotors are telling me you have too much rear bias. Out it came with a couple turns.... and BINGO my lockup issue went away.

THEN HE STARTED TO WORK ON THE NUTS BEHIND THE WHEEL.


So first we worked on getting tire pressures and brakes right.... and between sessions we got schooled on things to think about etc. As the car became consistent - and I gained confidence that it would drive the same way it did the last session... and the tire pressures were up to maximum contact patch (and heat)... Then the nut could begin to use less brake - drive deeper - and explore different turn in points.


It was the best money I've ever spent "on the car". Not only that - unlike Charley - he is fun to hang with.

[GregWeld]

I will also say that --- Charley's Mustang has 70 or so less HP.... and runs rear drum brakes... and I can not keep up with him.

[intocarss]

You don't go faster, unless it feels better......



If that makes sense. Does to me.


THAT MAKES TOTAL SENSE

[glassman]

Well thanx to this event, i'm no longer a track virgin.

Took the school on Saturday, my instructor.....well lets just say "i got THEE guy".

More to follow when i get home. I ran seven sessions and i am pooped.

All I can really say for now is , WOW, Hooked.

Spent time with Greg, Sieg, Charlie, Dave, Ron, Mike and G. Great guys, great time. They are dealers of the cardope and i am hooked.....

[Damn True]

Well thanx to this event, i'm no longer a track virgin.

Took the school on Saturday, my instructor.....well lets just say "i got THEE guy".

More to follow when i get home. I ran seven sessions and i am pooped.

All I can really say for now is , WOW, Hooked.

Spent time with Greg, Sieg, Charlie, Dave, Ron, Mike and G. Great guys, great time. They are dealers of the cardope and i am hooked.....

It usually takes only one hit on the "Go-Fast Crackpipe"

[Sieg]

It usually takes only one hit on the "Go-Fast Crackpipe"

Word! I hadn't had a track fix in 2 or 3 years an it sure felt good!

[Flash68]

Class was in session

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/C36F9839-E326-428A-99F8-9987F2D69E51_zpsaae3dhjo.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/C36F9839-E326-428A-99F8-9987F2D69E51_zpsaae3dhjo.jpg.html)

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/4D80DA58-FDF5-46EE-B659-E041DA3B49A5_zpsvlzxt65r.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/4D80DA58-FDF5-46EE-B659-E041DA3B49A5_zpsvlzxt65r.jpg.html)

Sieg with a Laguna-esque exhaust mod to try to keep the sound Gods happy

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/BE46BBF1-546E-408F-8AA9-130F9507524E_zpsokmgfmgu.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/BE46BBF1-546E-408F-8AA9-130F9507524E_zpsokmgfmgu.jpg.html)

But that worked only for a short time

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/AEDCF3F0-2135-4AE3-B968-2239F14FCAEB_zpsi5w1rz9v.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/AEDCF3F0-2135-4AE3-B968-2239F14FCAEB_zpsi5w1rz9v.jpg.html)

This guy shows up at 1pm on Sunday... apparently did not read the schedule correctly

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/36E381CC-21E2-4854-8CF9-FEF469806EAA_zpszzd81ooo.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/36E381CC-21E2-4854-8CF9-FEF469806EAA_zpszzd81ooo.jpg.html)

Street cars... even of the 2008 ULTIMATE variety... were present

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/04CDEBDA-6A21-4A75-A40A-34E5C15022AA_zpsmlh5zets.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/04CDEBDA-6A21-4A75-A40A-34E5C15022AA_zpsmlh5zets.jpg.html)

Weld fell off the wagon he was so much faster by the end of the weekend

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/25E7597C-ABCD-4219-BA73-A766EBFF6B95_zpse2cfq3cv.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/25E7597C-ABCD-4219-BA73-A766EBFF6B95_zpse2cfq3cv.jpg.html)

[sik68]

Great stuff guys! I would love to have Sutton take a dozen seconds off my lap time. Hope I can make it to the next one!!

[Panteracer]

Glad you guys had a good day
Things are good when the car doesn't
break or get bent up and ends up faster in
the end... your head is better when things
go right.. sometimes rare days

We use to rotate the front right tire out
at Thunderhill as it gets a lot of heat and wear
Maybe too many heat cycles that made it hard
I assume you have them heat cycled when you
buy them?? they do last longer

It seems like if the tires are more than a year old
then they seem like stones to me.. I laugh at guys
that keep slicks or Dot road race tires for years
waiting to go to the track... might as well throw
them in the garbage.. safety is also a concern with
old tires

I should have come up and hung out with you guys
My weekend went in a garbage can as my Firebird was
hit in the parking lot.. not too bad.. bent bumper and rear
tail piece that is fiberglass.. was thinking about painting
the tail piece black.. now that it will be off easy to do.. also was thinking
about changing the bumper to fiberglass. rethinking that idea
as when looking for parts the metal back piece is no longer
made and the bumper saved it.. too much thinking sometimes

Panteracer Norcal Bob

[Richio1]

Damn, sorry I missed it. Hurst DL sent the wrong flywheel. No tranny - no go.

Are you guys planning on doing either the SCCA event in July or the Shelby club event in August at Sonoma?

[glassman]

Some of the little blue car
http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r530/mikearmienti/78324626-6397-4DDB-AA17-CFCBC353E3E5.jpg

http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r530/mikearmienti/F3CC3554-16C4-4588-82BF-5239D57CD086.jpg

Had a great time. New friends, new faces, new "habit"....

[Vegas69]

What did Gae run?

[Track Junky]

What did Gae run?

They wouldn't let me run because I missed the drivers meeting in the morning.

I knew when I left Vinces shop that they weren't going to let me run but I wasn't going to miss an opportunity to hang out with the gang.

Had a great time guys. Hope we can do it again soon. :thumbsup:

[67zo6Camaro]

Word! I hadn't had a track fix in 2 or 3 years an it sure felt good!

So how did it go? who's posting times? who ran what?

[patoke]

So how did it go? who's posting times? who ran what?

There weren't any fast times because saac doesn't let you pass in the turns. Even in the fast/green group there some very slow cars so it was impossible to get a clean lap with the no passing in turns rule (at least that was the case on saturday). I've never been to a track day where you couldn't pass in the turns in the advanced group.

The no passing in turns was actually much more dangerous I thought because we would be doing 150+ mph into turn one and we'd come up on a guy doing 70mph or less. Instead of going around him which would easy, you'd have to try to get slowed down like crazy on corner entry or mid corner.

It made sense though because there are some real shelby's there that don't want incidental contact but they should tell you on the webpage that there is no passing in corners or at least make the run group faster. I clocked some guys turning 2:40+ laps in the fast group. That is almost 1 minute slower per lap than we were running with NCRC on Friday. We packed up and headed home because it was so dangerous with that much disparity in speed.

Plus a guy in front of me got black flagged and he actually came to a stop on the middle of the race track!!! Who does that?? That was in the fast group. Maybe he was color blind and thought it was red!! Ha!!

Hopefully you guys go back out with another norcal group because we left before we got a chance to hang out.

[GregWeld]

There weren't any fast times because saac doesn't let you pass in the turns. Even in the fast/green group there some very slow cars so it was impossible to get a clean lap with the no passing in turns rule (at least that was the case on saturday). I've never been to a track day where you couldn't pass in the turns in the advanced group.

The no passing in turns was actually much more dangerous I thought because we would be doing 150+ mph into turn one and we'd come up on a guy doing 70mph or less. Instead of going around him which would easy, you'd have to try to get slowed down like crazy on corner entry or mid corner.

It made sense though because there are some real shelby's there that don't want incidental contact but they should tell you on the webpage that there is no passing in corners or at least make the run group faster. I clocked some guys turning 2:40+ laps in the fast group. That is almost 1 minute slower per lap than we were running with NCRC on Friday. We packed up and headed home because it was so dangerous with that much disparity in speed.

Plus a guy in front of me got black flagged and he actually came to a stop on the middle of the race track!!! Who does that?? That was in the fast group. Maybe he was color blind and thought it was red!! Ha!!

Hopefully you guys go back out with another norcal group because we left before we got a chance to hang out.




You must have one hell of a car to be hitting 150 going into turn 1.... because none of my stuff will hit that. The Mustang is WOT at the top of 4th gear and I might be seeing 125.... the Lotus which is far faster - is at the middle of 5th gear and is speed limited to 155MPH at the top of 6th... It's never gotten into 6th gear on that track.

Just sayin'

Not sure what group you ran in... but I think the NorCal Shelby events are some of the best run events I've been to... and they don't allow passing in corners for a great reason -- it keeps people from wading up their cars when some moron thinks he's a hot shoe and loses it trying to take the inside away from you.

Not sure where you get the 1:40 lap times from either... passing in the corners or not. Maybe you were timing a 250cc Shifter cart?

[patoke]

Greg, what is the horsepower and weight of your two cars? We see over 125mph going into turn 1 in spec miata and it only has 119 horsepower.

At the event, we had a C6 z06 that has over 600 rwhp, coilovers, brakes, etc. The fastest lap we ran on Friday was a 1:55. Top speed at the end of the start/finish strait was 153 mph.

There was a Stohl on Friday turning low 1:40's that would take turn one flat out!! It was pretty cool because it was driven by a 67 year old kickass lady.

There were also "crappy" cars there on Friday that couldn't turn a 2:20 with Michael Schumacher driving! !

Not being to pass in a turn is more dangerous in my opinion than point by. It all depends on experience level but I've seen a track day that didn't allow open passing or at least point by in the turns in the advanced group.

I must say it was well organized and definitely an event that is well run. It just isn't an event that a "fast" Lap time would be had at.

[clill]

Blue group is for the expert drivers with fast cars.There was no blue group on Saturday because of the large attendance. On Sunday they added the blue group for the fast guys. Plenty of space and time on Sunday to shoot for a fast lap.

[GregWeld]

Greg, what is the horsepower and weight of your two cars? We see over 125mph going into turn 1 in spec miata and it only has 119 horsepower.

At the event, we had a C6 z06 that has over 600 rwhp, coilovers, brakes, etc. The fastest lap we ran on Friday was a 1:55. Top speed at the end of the start/finish strait was 153 mph.

There was a Stohl on Friday turning low 1:40's that would take turn one flat out!! It was pretty cool because it was driven by a 67 year old kickass lady.

There were also "crappy" cars there on Friday that couldn't turn a 2:20 with Michael Schumacher driving! !

Not being to pass in a turn is more dangerous in my opinion than point by. It all depends on experience level but I've seen a track day that didn't allow open passing or at least point by in the turns in the advanced group.

I must say it was well organized and definitely an event that is well run. It just isn't an event that a "fast" Lap time would be had at.





The '65 Mustang is a 590hp (dyno'd) Tony Oddo motor'd - Jerico 4 speed - Hoosier'd - 3015 pound car


The Lotus 2 Eleven is 1470 pounds - single center seat conversion - 6 speed - blown Toyota 252 HP


The SCCA TRACK RECORD is a 1:35 set in qualifying -- very different than actually racing (set in a Stohr) - RACING is a 1:37.6

This is running the Cyclone (5 and 5a) -- take the Cyclone away and I think that is good for about 2 seconds faster IIRC


http://www.stohr.com


Your lady is smoking fast!


By comparison the racing lap record in GT2 - is a 1999 Corvette - with a 1:52.255


The SCCA track records for cars (similar) to what is being driven at NorCal Shelby events --- a mix of old and new Mustangs... with Corvettes etc.... are all right around 2:01/2:02's


I've passed any and all Miata's Spec or otherwise including the one driven this weekend that is was being driven by a professional race car driver.... and I passed him out of turn 15 in my Lotus and was half the straight in front of him by turn 1.


I'm not arguing -- and not trying to be a bonehead nor do I think you are being... but lots of people read these threads and posts - many that may be going to their first track event to give it a try - and I'm just trying to be factual (again not saying that you are not being factual) but my perspective is the opposite of yours with the passing zones. I'm happy that I can turn in with confidence that nobody is on my quarter. I'm more than happy to roll to the side and lift completely off the pedal and point the faster cars by at the first opportunity. The quicker they fly by the faster I can get back into it and attempt to follow their line.


The ZR1's and some ZO6's are on track with us and they make us look like we are standing on the brake with an anchor tied to our axles.... I'm sure they're hitting 150 down into turn 1.... I make no attempt to even try to follow them. I tried that once in the Lotus out of turn 8 and ended up doing a tank slapper before turn 9. LOL

[clill]

Patoke...This is from the Norcal SAAC website.

Safety

Non-competitive - NO timing or lap scoring allowed
Track is fully staffed with USARM professional cornerworkers
Ambulance and Tow Truck on-site
Strictly enforced rules for driver conduct
Passing of other cars restricted to straight-aways (no late passes)
All cars must pass tech inspection

The Shelby club has been at Thunderhill since it's inception and helped fund it's construction. They run a fun-safe event and 99.9% of the people had a great time and fully understand why there is no passing in the turns. We encourage newcomers to come and learn to drive on the track. We provide volunteer instructors to help the guys just getting their feet wet. It sounds like this event is just not suited for the type of driving you want to do.

[Track Junky]

NorCal Shelby events should not be used to be competeitive. Too many noobs and the biggest hint is that they dont offer lap timing. All I was going to do out there is hang with the gang and make a few shake down runs to get a feel of the car with the new rear shocks and fuel cell. Stop watches are great but not as accurate as a an on car timing device.

I run and AMB transponder on my car. When I'm serious about tuning for faster lap times I run with NASA or NCRC. Point being NorCal Shelby events should not be used to try and kill your last best lap time.

[patoke]

Greg, I completely agree and track days are all about having fun, not our big shot at becoming the next Mario. The lack of passing in the turns is a GOOD thing in most groups. After 20+ years of wheel to wheel racing, I'm comfortable passing anywhere on the track but I definitely would want the others in my run group to be comfortable as well doing so. It makes more sense that they have a blue run group that just didn't run on Saturday.

For someone starting out, I think it is an excellent group to go with but I wouldn't recommend it for a very fast car unless the run the blue group because the difference in speeds without being able to pass wasn't much fun truthfully. But again, that's just my opinion and it sounds like Sunday would have been much better.

Since we did the friday event, we never planned to stay for Sunday. I can't afford to put on those pounds from eating at Casa Ramos twice, ha!!

Also, you're cars sound like fun! Just as an fyi, we ran 10 seconds slower on Saturday in the one session we did before we packed up because of the slower traffic, so that means you would have run a 1:58 on Friday!! :)

[patoke]

Patoke...This is from the Norcal SAAC website.

Safety

Non-competitive - NO timing or lap scoring allowed
Track is fully staffed with USARM professional cornerworkers
Ambulance and Tow Truck on-site
Strictly enforced rules for driver conduct
Passing of other cars restricted to straight-aways (no late passes)
All cars must pass tech inspection

The Shelby club has been at Thunderhill since it's inception and helped fund it's construction. They run a fun-safe event and 99.9% of the people had a great time and fully understand why there is no passing in the turns. We encourage newcomers to come and learn to drive on the track. We provide volunteer instructors to help the guys just getting their feet wet. It sounds like this event is just not suited for the type of driving you want to do.

Maybe I should learn to read!! Obviously I didn't see the part about not passing in the turns on their webpage. It seems like a fun and well run organization. It was just a misunderstanding on our part about what it is. We are used to racing as well as track days that are completely open if you are a capable enough driver.

[patoke]

NorCal Shelby events should not be used to be competeitive. Too many noobs and the biggest hint is that they dont offer lap timing. All I was going to do out there is hang with the gang and make a few shake down runs to get a feel of the car with the new rear shocks and fuel cell. Stop watches are great but not as accurate as a an on car timing device.

I run and AMB transponder on my car. When I'm serious about tuning for faster lap times I run with NASA or NCRC. Point being NorCal Shelby events should not be used to try and kill your last best lap time.

We have full data logging in our cars as well as transponders, there is no better tool for driver development than data logging as you can see your lines, corner speeds, shift points, etc. Then get a better driver to drive your car and see where you are losing time. The systems are relatively cheap now too, at least compared to what they used to cost.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Nice thing about the diversity of California tracks and local organizations is that there is a club and track for every style/experience level.

[patoke]

Here is a link to a build thread on one of our latest race car builds http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=46091

In Sprint trim versus endurance trim, we see hoping for sub 1:40. Over 700hp and 2000 pounds with full aero is going to be fast into turn one. We are expecting low to mid 170's mph at the end of the front stretch and some tremendous corner speeds through turn one (actually all of the high speed turns because of the aero).

[Damn True]

NASA doesn't use the crows nest (silliest track feature in CA IMO) for the 25hr, note that outside of the high-downforce cars (open wheel, sports racers etc) that configuration is about 2.5sec a lap quicker for most.

The Wolf GB08S that was driven by Little Al and his son at the 25 this year ran a 1:37.6 in qualy. Porsche cup cars typically run in the high 1:45's. Highly prepped M3's run in the mid-low 1:50's and lower levels of prep put those cars in the mid-upper 50's. Very quick FWD cars like the Acura ILX's run this year by Honda Research run right at 2:00 and Miata's typically run in the 2:07-2:10 range.

I ran at a Shelby event a few years ago with a buddy. I really liked their attention to safety and zero-tolerance toward Hoonery. Track days aren't racing.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Here is a link to a build thread on one of our latest race car builds http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=46091

In Sprint trim versus endurance trim, we see hoping for sub 1:40. Over 700hp and 2000 pounds with full aero is going to be fast into turn one. We are expecting low to mid 170's mph at the end of the front stretch and some tremendous corner speeds through turn one (actually all of the high speed turns because of the aero).

that is nice...don't you have a cup car too?

[patoke]

that is nice...don't you have a cup car too?

Vince, I recently sold my cup car. It was a blast to bang around the road courses but those cars were never meant to be on them. The only way to get them to rotate was to jump up on the curb. That's why you see the cup guys bouncing off the curbs at Sonoma.

It weighed 3,400 pounds so it was a little portly for road course racing!

[Track Junky]

So just out of curiosity Pat, what times was the black running on Friday?

[patoke]

We had a little motor issue early on Friday which ended that cars weekend early. We haven't looked into it yet but hopefully it isn't too bad. We only got about 4.5 laps at speed. The first two laps it was pushing pretty bad. We made some changes which really helped the next session but 2.5 laps into that session, the motor became very unhappy! ! Best time was a 2.036. The car should do under 2.00 with more tuning and some better brake pads.

[GregWeld]

Also, you're cars sound like fun! Just as an fyi, we ran 10 seconds slower on Saturday in the one session we did before we packed up because of the slower traffic, so that means you would have run a 1:58 on Friday!! :)




Pat ---- If I ran a 1:58 --- that would be the "time" on the spins I'd be doing. I'd be too scared to actually drive at that rate! OMG

Seriously --- I think the Lotus can run a 2:00 = it's far faster than our old Mustangs.... and if I had the stones and seat time I'm pretty sure it's capable. There's some videos on YouTube of Andy doing 1:33 at Laguna Seca in his ... they're pretty quick little POS in the right hands. Mine would never be anywhere near those times.


I was really writing for the PT crowd that hangs here ---- that if they come to run -- and they "only" run a 2:15 or 2:10's or some such.... they should be real happy with that.... 'cause the "pros" in full on race trim are setting lap records in the very low 2:00's... and those are RECORDS -- so they're probably not "running" those times in traffic etc. It's more just to keep perspective and balance, that I make my comments.



z4mCZ1pmQzw

[Track Junky]

Damn.....that's impressive. 1.3 faster than I've run so far. Hopefully these new shocks will make a difference. I'll be heading back to T-Hill again June 13th with NCRC. How soon before the black is back out?

[patoke]

It depends on what's up with the motor honestly. I have a full slate of race/track cars right now so if it's an easy fix, it should be back on the track soon. You're welcome to drive it if we ever have it at the same event to compare against your car, likes/dislikes, etc.

I'll be at the May 24th HOD event at Sonoma in the c6z and I believe I'm doing the HOD June 7/8th event on the new 5 mile track. Black might be there for that event.

I'm also contemplating selling black. That sounds crazy as its not even fully finished yet but I have an opportunity to buy a really special car and I already own enough track cars for the whole Brady bunch family to all drive at once! !

[patoke]

Pat ---- If I ran a 1:58 --- that would be the "time" on the spins I'd be doing. I'd be too scared to actually drive at that rate! OMG

Seriously --- I think the Lotus can run a 2:00 = it's far faster than our old Mustangs.... and if I had the stones and seat time I'm pretty sure it's capable. There's some videos on YouTube of Andy doing 1:33 at Laguna Seca in his ... they're pretty quick little POS in the right hands. Mine would never be anywhere near those times.


I was really writing for the PT crowd that hangs here ---- that if they come to run -- and they "only" run a 2:15 or 2:10's or some such.... they should be real happy with that.... 'cause the "pros" in full on race trim are setting lap records in the very low 2:00's... and those are RECORDS -- so they're probably not "running" those times in traffic etc. It's more just to keep perspective and balance, that I make my comments.


z4mCZ1pmQzw


That Lotus you have is a very cool car! ! So is the mustang but I'm a GM guy so don't tell anybody I said that :secret:

[Sieg]

Had fun just bull$hitting with you guys Saturday. Thanks for the hospitality to me and my boys. They want to go again.
Great to meet you Mike :thumbsup: Awesome to hear the boys want to go again!

12 seconds in two days. That all you got? :D
Great job Greg! :cheers:
Wait until the suspension is dialed in and it gets fresh shocks. That little pony's got some motor in it. GW's motor sounds great pulling off the corners accelerating down the straights!

So how did it go? who's posting times? who ran what?
I'll need to check my videos for times I think Ron and Dave said 2:14-2:15's. Twice I had somewhat open track with what I felt was good lap smooth lap going I got the meatball flag for sound. :bang:

I wasn't smart enough after the first meatball flag on Saturday to ask Dito (the photog) where the sound station was, I saw him on Sunday after my last session and secured the location. :sieg: They tell you it's roving if you ask......:secret: So after the first incident I went on a scavenger hunt through the pits and found a section of pipe and added the turn down figuring it would be the most neutral position......I should have turned it up. I only got one more run on Saturday and didn't get flagged and my two Sunday am sessions and Greg's one session didn't get a flag. Then my first session out after lunch I was meetballed again. Came in the pits and rotated the tip another 5* down (only option due to bodywork clearance) and went out for the last session paranoid and short-shifting until the last few laps of the day and had traffic issues on those. :waveflag:

If I would have turned the tip up there probably wouldn't have been an issue. Track limit is 103 db, Saturday I hit 105 db and Sunday 104 db. If you would have been there you wouldn't have believed the 2-Eleven would have been in violation.......at all!


There was a Stohl on Friday turning low 1:40's that would take turn one flat out!! It was pretty cool because it was driven by a 67 year old kickass lady.
Is that the car with the large weave carbon bodywork that's somewhat rough and slightly yellowing?

[patoke]

Sieg, that's the one. I didn't get a chance to talk to them much but we parked next to them. They seemed nice and the car was definitely fast. I meant stohr btw.

[Sieg]

Had fun just bull$hitting with you guys Saturday. Thanks for the hospitality to me and my boys. They want to go again.

12 seconds in two days. That all you got? :D

Great job Greg! :cheers:

So how did it go? who's posting times? who ran what?

Sieg, that's the one. I didn't get a chance to talk to them much but we parked next to them. They seemed nice and the car was definitely fast. I meant stohr btw.
Greg and I went by when she was belted in with helmet on in their pit waiting for her session. I looked at her and knew it was a lady that appeared to be middle aged........would have never guessed she was a 60 plusser!

Didn't watch her run which I'm now regretting!

The car looked to be well used and there was no effort to make it "pretty" which told me it was probably sleeper quick. :secret:

[Track Junky]

Pat, just checked the NCRC website and didn't see your time posted.

If it aint posted it didn't happen. :rules:

Get that thing running again and lets see some ink :lol:

[patoke]

Gaetano, we didn't get the transponder on the car. I didnt even think we would get the car onto the track truthfully. Vince was a little behind in his schedule as you know. We were welding the quarters on the night before and installing a new steering rack. We put in a gpxpro though to datalog, but I hear ya on the "no post, no proof". Maybe I'll decide to keep it to show you the tail lights in person :)

[Sieg]

Maybe I'll decide to keep it to show you the tail lights in person :)

FIGHT!

:popcorn2:


:lol:

[patoke]

Friendly track fun!! I was really hoping the orange car would be there, but I was also hoping to run the car two full days versus 4.5 laps.

[Sieg]

Friendly track fun!! I was really hoping the orange car would be there, but I was also hoping to run the car two full days versus 4.5 laps.

Promise there wasn't any smack talk in our pit over the weekend. :whistling:

Bummer about your car. Losing sessions to due to meatball flags was bad enough for me. You certainly weren't the only one I saw benched prematurely due to mechanicals. I hate seeing that happen to people because I know the feeling firsthand.

Had a chance to figure out the issue?

[Track Junky]

Gaetano, we didn't get the transponder on the car. I didnt even think we would get the car onto the track truthfully. Vince was a little behind in his schedule as you know. We were welding the quarters on the night before and installing a new steering rack. We put in a gpxpro though to datalog, but I hear ya on the "no post, no proof". Maybe I'll decide to keep it to show you the tail lights in person :)

I respectfully except that challenge my friend. :cheers:

Just a heads up just in case you didn't know, NCRC rents transponders and Dave and Luke are more than happy to take your money for the transponder rental and timing. :thumbsup:

[patoke]

No, I was at the hospital all day for my wife to have a procedure which went well and also really helped my lateral-g post count. There's nothing like 8 hours in a hospital with free wi-fi to boost post count!!

The car is still in the small trailer. I'm debating what to do with the car right now. I'll probably bring it back to Vince if he wants it!! That car gave him some fits but he has done a lot of really nice work on it so he might as well get to finish that work.

[Track Junky]

Keep the car. We need to boost the NorCal first gen track car count.

And you don't want to miss out on the September NCRC get together between the NorCal and SoCal crowd at Buttonwillow.

[Sieg]

I included the before and after pit cruise for those that haven't attended a track day so they can see the entire in car process for a session.

Ohb5kA0P9uI

[patoke]

I respectfully except that challenge my friend. :cheers:

Just a heads up just in case you didn't know, NCRC rents transponders and Dave and Luke are more than happy to take your money for the transponder rental and timing. :thumbsup:

I didnt know they rented transponders. Good to know for the future.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I included the before and after pit cruise for those that haven't attended a track day so they can see the entire in car process for a session.

Ohb5kA0P9uI

you wave like Charley :slingshot:

looks like a blast in that thing....so....did you find one yet? I know you looked.

[Sieg]

you wave like Charley :slingshot:

looks like a blast in that thing....so....did you find one yet? I know you looked.
I'll admit that four buddy's with four 2-Eleven's running in the same session would be serious fun. :unibrow:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Gaetano, we didn't get the transponder on the car. I didnt even think we would get the car onto the track truthfully. Vince was a little behind in his schedule as you know. We were welding the quarters on the night before and installing a new steering rack. We put in a gpxpro though to datalog, but I hear ya on the "no post, no proof". Maybe I'll decide to keep it to show you the tail lights in person :)

FIGHT!

:popcorn2:


:lol:

Friendly track fun!! I was really hoping the orange car would be there, but I was also hoping to run the car two full days versus 4.5 laps.

I respectfully except that challenge my friend. :cheers:

Just a heads up just in case you didn't know, NCRC rents transponders and Dave and Luke are more than happy to take your money for the transponder rental and timing. :thumbsup:

Oh crap...you know he's running around the neighborhood stealing aluminum can so he can buy this and stick it in the Orange... http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=45677

[Sieg]

Oh crap...you know he's running around the neighborhood stealing aluminum can so he can buy this and stick it in the Orange... http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=45677
He'll never make it to T2 on the green flag lap. Good spectator viewing from the hillside above the tower between T1 & T2 though. :D

[Damn True]

So, who had the most fun?

[Sieg]

So, who had the most fun?

I'd have to say everyone who had a running car had a pretty darn good weekend. Weather was perfect, NorCal Shelby runs a good track, and the drivers are observant and courteous. Didn't hear of any contact incidents and only one minimal oil-down incident that taken care of quickly.

You couldn't have asked for a better atmosphere in our immediate pit area or the entire pit area for that matter. There was just a lot of nice friendly people who attended the event. The Club had a great Saturday night prime rib buffet. I highly recommend NorCal Shelby events to anyone looking to get their car on the track where they can really enjoy it. :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

I think the real question would be is who didn't have fun. Hell, me, Vince, and Allen worked on my car for at least 25 hours straight just to make it up there. Didn't get to T-Hill till 1:00 on Sunday. And even though they wouldn't let me run I still got to see my boys. Wouldn't trade that time getting the car ready with Vince and Allen and the 4 hours with my boys at the track for anything.

[Sieg]

I think the real question would be is who didn't have fun. Hell, me, Vince, and Allen worked on my car for at least 25 hours straight just to make it up there. Didn't get to T-Hill till 1:00 on Sunday. And even though they wouldn't let me run I still got to see my boys. Wouldn't trade that time getting the car ready with Vince and Allen and the 4 hours with my boys at the track for anything.

:thumbsup: :cheers:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I think the real question would be is who didn't have fun. Hell, me, Vince, and Allen worked on my car for at least 25 hours straight just to make it up there. Didn't get to T-Hill till 1:00 on Sunday. And even though they wouldn't let me run I still got to see my boys. Wouldn't trade that time getting the car ready with Vince and Allen and the 4 hours with my boys at the track for anything.

oh speak for yourself....I still can't form proper sentences, haven't slept good and developed a nervous twitch every time I hear that stupid "Frozen song" and don't even get me started on Allen. He shaved his head bald, adopted a bleach white, over weight cat that he carries everywhere and keeps mumbling your name and something about destroying the earth with a fricken laser.

good times....HAAA, "spits on the floor

[Sieg]

oh speak for yourself....I still can't form proper sentences, haven't slept good and developed a nervous twitch every time I hear that stupid "Frozen song" and don't even get me started on Allen. He shaved his head bald, adopted a bleach white, over weight cat that he carries everywhere and keeps mumbling your name and something about destroying the earth with a fricken laser.

good times....HAAA, "spits on the floor

:lmao:

I was actually concerned for your well being when I saw Gae roll in at 0'Dave-Thirty on Sunday. :D

[glassman]

oh speak for yourself....I still can't form proper sentences, haven't slept good and developed a nervous twitch every time I hear that stupid "Frozen song" and don't even get me started on Allen. He shaved his head bald, adopted a bleach white, over weight cat that he carries everywhere and keeps mumbling your name and something about destroying the earth with a fricken laser.

good times....HAAA, "spits on the floor

Vince, you need to "let it go".....

[fleetus macmullitz]

oh speak for yourself....I still can't form proper sentences, haven't slept good and developed a nervous twitch every time I hear that stupid "Frozen song" and don't even get me started on Allen. He shaved his head bald, adopted a bleach white, over weight cat that he carries everywhere...

Cats... :shakehead:


http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd216/123draw-images/dsdfj.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/123draw-images/media/dsdfj.gif.html)

lol

[intocarss]

oh speak for yourself....I still can't form proper sentences, haven't slept good and developed a nervous twitch every time I hear that stupid "Frozen song" and don't even get me started on Allen. He shaved his head bald, adopted a bleach white, over weight cat that he carries everywhere and keeps mumbling your name and something about destroying the earth with a fricken laser.

good times....HAAA, "spits on the floorTHREAD/ :relax:

[Flash68]

video not great quality but this thing was rad

eZ6gC7gasS8

[Sieg]

video not great quality but this thing was rad

I went over and talked to the driver briefly on my db reduction scavenger hunt. He was old enough to be GW's Dad. :D

[DaleTx]

I included the before and after pit cruise for those that haven't attended a track day so they can see the entire in car process for a session.

Ohb5kA0P9uI

Nice smooth driving, looking good :thumbsup:. What kind of top speed were you running on the straights? It looked like you went into 5th gear on the long straight.

I can't believe the Corvette made the pass on on you while you were passing another car. He should have waited.... hopefully you saw him coming.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Nice smooth driving, looking good :thumbsup:

X2.

I get nervous when I go extra fast in someone else's car...plus Mom always insists riding shotgun since it's her car.

:rules:


lol

[Ron Sutton]

Hey Everyone,

Sorry for not posting sooner. I was rockin' on some projects. :rockin:

I have lots to cover from the Thunderhill weekend ...

1st ... Greg thanks for hiring me to come out. You said it would be fun & man was it. You hang with a great group of people. Your cooking & hospitality was much appreciated.

2nd ... Sieg & Dave "Cheeseball" Gordon ... it was good to see you both again & hang out. Fun times.

3rd ... Mike & Mike ... it was good to meet you in person. It's funny how acquaintances are born online but friendships forged when you're hanging out.

4th ... Charley ... man ... you shoulda warned me about Greg. LOL

5th ... Gaetano ... good to meet you in person. I wish they would have let you run so we could dial in those trick rear shocks. But I'm glad you made the trip anyway to hang out.

If I missed anyone, I apologize.

Now onto some info I should share ...

A. Greg Weld didn't hire me to get faster. That was never our focus. Greg wanted to get a better handle on the Hoosier R6 tires ... optimum pressures for hot & cold tracks ... taking temp readings ... understanding what the temps mean, etc. He had “ono moment” at Laguna Seca and wanted to prevent that in the future.

Greg told me a dozen times before & during the track days, "I do this for fun." So my focus was on making it more fun for him on track. (Hard to make it more fun in the pits. Greg & the gang already have that covered. But I did get a few funnies in.) :)

What I mean by fun on track is ...
• Having a track car that is predictable to drive, consistent and comfortable at 8/10, 9/10 or 10/10.
• Having a track car that doesn't handle funny nor doing anything evil or unpredictable.
• And lastly ... and this is key ... having a track car that you have confidence in that's not constantly on the edge.

On Saturday:
After Session #1: I checked the tires’ hot pressures (to know growth rate) took inner, middle & outer temps ( to understand what the tire was doing) and checked the durometer on each tire. Greg mentioned the car was rolling over on the right rear on left hand corners (which Thunderhill has most of for you guys that haven’t been there.) Greg told me the car was doing this the last time he had it at the track too … but not before that. Driving a car that handles this way can be a little unsettling on slower tracks. On faster tracks it can pucker you up … if you know what I mean.

It would be easy to think the cause was mechanical, but understanding what the tires are telling us is can prevent us from going on a wild goose chase. The primary reason the car was rolling more over on the right rear tire … was the right front tire was not gripping “as well”. It was harder than the other 3 tires. A quick refresher: Grip (traction) causes the car to have body roll or roll angle. No grip … no roll angle. So the RR tire was gripping fine & the RF not so much. This led to more roll angle in the rear & less in the front.

If we had a single used, good tire we could have put on the RF, that would have fixed it. We didn’t, but Greg had 4 new tires mounted on wheels, so he swapped them on. I learned a little about the run pressures from session #1 & adjusted the “go out” pressure a bit for session #2.

We sat down (Sieg, Greg & I) and I shared driving tips to keep the tires “Happy” … for increased grip on all 4 tires … and outlined what I think of as timing the driver actions of braking, turning, throttle, etc.

After Session #2: I checked the tires’ hot pressures , temps & durometer plus brake rotor temps. The tire pressure growth & temps looked better. The durometer showed the new tires were all within 1 point & basically the same as the 3 good tires Greg took off. The brake temps showed the car’s brake bias was off.

Greg was excited his “car was back” and the handling restored to normal. He said the rear tires were hoppy on corner entry under hard braking, so I adjusted the brake proportioning valve … and made a small pressure change. I better clarify that … Greg sets his tire pressures … I just review the numbers and share my suggestions. Greg was laughing his butt off about the car needing .5 of a pound more in the in the front tires. LOL Good times.

After Session #3: I checked the tires’ hot pressures , temps & durometer plus brake rotor temps. The tire pressure growth & temps looked close, but not perfect yet. The brake rotor temps told me the bias was much better but not optimum.

Greg said the hop in the rear brakes was gone, handling was great and he had confidence in driving her. The brake bias adjuster was out of adjustment, so we understood that was all we could get until we made some mechanical changes. I called for another .5 tire pressure change … this time for the rear tires … and Greg was dying laughing.

After Session #4: Of course, as always, I checked the tires’ hot pressures , temps & durometer plus brake rotor temps. Tires were perfect … which means they were providing the optimum grip they were capable of. Brake bias was the same … Ok.

We called it day … a good day … and most of us proceeded to have several adult beverages (not Greg) and an awesome dinner the Shelby club provided at the track.

IIRC Greg’s times for the day were:
Session #1: 2:23 best
Session #2: 2:16 best
Session #3: 2:15 best
Session #4: 2:13 best

But we never once focused on going faster. We never discussed going faster or driving harder. My focus was learning & optimizing the tires … and finding and fixing issues that were there. My goal was to make the car more fun to drive.

To clarify, I didn’t cut 10 seconds off Greg’s times Saturday. I’ll bet Greg would have got the Mustang running around 2:18’s with no changes. maybe even faster. Only Greg can know. By correcting a few things on the car, it made it easier to drive faster. I think the majority of Saturday’s gains were from car improvements and some from Driving improvement.

We did not do much on the car relatively speaking. We didn’t touch shock valving, springs, heights, sway bars, track bars, roll centers, front end geometry, etc, etc. That wasn’t Greg’s goal. He just wanted the car to be predictable & more fun to drive.


On Sunday:
I called for “go out” pressures to make the cold tires come up to speed quicker. Sieg, Greg & I sat down & I shared ways to program the mind to increase critical information coming into it. I reminded them of a key thing to do before each session. We made no changes to the car on Sunday. All gains on Sunday were driver.

Session #1: 2:13
Session #2: 2.08

Summary: We achieved Greg's goals. He learned his tire info & knows how to optimize them everytime, got his car handling & braking better & learned a few driver tricks. The 10 second quicker lap times were just icing on the cake.

Someone mentioned 12 seconds, but I think working together, Greg & I cut about 10 seconds off his lap times … 2:18 to 2:08 … over the whole weekend. Some from car improvement & some from driver coaching.

For reference, I was timing several cars every session (at the track I live with a small 4-car stop watch). I have an old habit of always timing cars … because it teaches me stuff. I time laps for many reasons. In this case, I needed to know if the track was changing significantly to affect car performance and if so … how much? So I timed 3 veterans every session. The mean C6 Vette (fastest car there I “think”) ran 2:00’s almost every lap. The “good” Cup car ran 2:02’s occasionally 2:03’s all weekend. Another fast Mustang ran 2:09’s & 2:10’s every session. So the track didn’t change much.

Again, Greg & I never focused on going faster. We never discussed going faster or driving harder. I just helped Greg & Sieg see, hear & feel things more clearly in the cockpit. The 5 seconds Greg shaved off his lap times on Sunday was all driver. Greg had confidence in his car and increased his track awareness which allows you to get faster … comfortably.

Greg … Man … thanks for having me out. It was super fun. I’m glad you had fun … and you’re happy with the result.

[glassman]

Ron thanx again for all you do for this forum and us. Your wisdom and experience is great fun to learn from. I enjoyed meeting you and spending some time with you this weekend. It was one of my favorite weekends of my life, granted it was my first track outing and a memorable one, one i will always have with me. Track days will come and go, and so will friends, but memories we will have forever.:thankyou:

[GregWeld]

Ron -- Great compilation of the weekend! Thank goodness you have a mind like a steel trap. I can't remember anything except the fun stuff.


I will say that having Ron Sutton help with the two cars was the best money I've ever spent on a car -- and was also far cheaper than all the parts that I'd have bought to shave that time off --- and the car wouldn't have been better with more parts thrown at it.

I've said this - in a "nice way" <for me> many times -- and it always gets discounted as it's coming from the old fat guy.... but investing in drivers schools -- seat time -- and professional services such as what Ron offers (not your jackass buddy that THINKS he knows something) --- will do way more for you and your car than all the parts you think you need 'cause if all the parts aren't functioning the way they should be - ya got nothing.

If you're serious about your stuff... invest in some help like what Ron offers. It's the best money you've ever spent.


RON: What about a 1/4 click on the left front and minus 1/2 click at the rear...

Guess we'll work on all that the next session 'cause I ain't done with you yet! :>)

[rustomatic]

So, in a nutshell, I can barely remember driving my car on Saturday. I managed to meet Sieg and Ron, but somehow missed Greg. My timing sucked for pretty much everything, as it seemed like if I was not on the track, I was literally running to the "classroom," as I was in school. The "classroom" sucked, but it was necessary for a few key pointers; mostly, it sucked, and it sucked up my ability to truly enjoy the day, the other cars, or the social elements of the environment. Oh well...

My main problem was sleep deprivation; I did my 120-or-so mile drive down on Saturday morning on about four hours of sleep (no problem--I drove a truck for a living for many years). I had a really cool instructor in the car (Joe Praxel?)--the guy in the classroom not so much. The in-car instructor took me out for one of his red group sessions in his California Special and managed to do a disco-spin going over that little hill; that was some good added value.

My car held up well for three sessions; I thought my basic street tires would be disinspiring, but they were surprisingly not. The suspension and steering felt great; my only confidence issue was my brakes, which still worked fine. I'm just not used to track-like braking requirements (no, no drums are on my car). Still, I actually remember very little of the driving, although the Blue Milk guys took some great feelthy peekchurs that I'll be paying money for, when I get another minute...

I finally managed to ride solo in my third session, and things went okay. That said, it's funny how 340 horsepower quickly feels like a shopping cart on a track. After the session, I heard some frying noises that turned out to be a bunch of water on the top of my motor, so I cut my losses and hit the road. I was so freaking sleepy that all I wanted to do was hit the Starbucks in Willows and go home to bed.

I got black flagged on my first lap, thanks to my cool instructor encouraging me to pass in a turn. Who was I to disagree?

I'm pretty sure that the only guy who passed me in my flaming-fast sessions was Glassman--the guy in the blue Camaro, I think...

[GregWeld]

Okay --- everyone loves "the videos". LOL So here's the only one I took.



You'll see another yellow Mustang show up --- that's Charley --- I can't keep up with him --- and then I THOUGHT our other buddy Pete was behind me (his is black with gold stripes) so slowed to let him go around - but it wasn't Pete it was a dark blue car with gold stripes.... Then I saw Chet (white with blue stripes) so I wanted to run with him, so slowed to let him catch up and go around so I could run with him. This was the first time in all our events that I've actually been anywhere near these guys and wanted to be able to run as a pack... It's fun to dice with your buddies. The Turquoise Panoz is fast --- Since we've all run together before -- you get to know who's who and if I see it in my mirrors -- I'm lifting off the gas and pointing him by. You learn to not try to race the faster guy behind you via your mirror... you can learn A LOT more by following their line rather than having them 2 feet off your ass and you over driving your car in an effort to gap them. After a few spins or "oh no moments" you grow up and start parking your ego in the trailer when the starter spins over. We're there to have FUN not get a $100K check --- or a $100K WRECK.


Sutton's post was spot on. I'm not out there to "race". I'm out there just having a great time. I love to chase people. I would never be a good racer because I have no desire to LEAD. I love to see if I can catch people -- try a different line -- act like we're racing and see if I could take 'em on the inside etc. Like they say - To each his own.

The back section of the track, beginning with T6 to T9 is very high speed. I came in and got scolded by Charley for slowing down too much in T8.... he's right --- I tend to just cruise back there... Part of the increase in my lap times was him chiding me to pick up the pace in that section, which I did. I could go A LOT faster back there.... I like corners and straights are boring... so I tend to just "get thru them" rather than attack the straights (this section is really more straights with a couple "kinks" tossed in).




KjMHodLCvak

[Sieg]

GW's first session in the "new & improved" 2-Eleven. I didn't edit for educational purposes on the hot-pit swap.

rZJ73VmffUs

[GregWeld]

Can you tell the mirrors were adjusted for SIEG?? I couldn't see if there was traffic and had to keep looking I couldn't just check with my eyes. LOL


This car is so f'n easy to drive now it's sick! Next sessions will add a center mirror -- and Hoosier A6's! And my new Stilo helmet is equipped with built in communications -- as such it has ear "muffs" -- I couldn't hear the RPM's which is very disconcerting as this is a sense that you need on the track. I can either remove them or use my other helmet in this car. It's not a problem hearing the Mustang!

[Ron Sutton]

Ron thanx again for all you do for this forum and us. Your wisdom and experience is great fun to learn from. I enjoyed meeting you and spending some time with you this weekend. It was one of my favorite weekends of my life, granted it was my first track outing and a memorable one, one i will always have with me. Track days will come and go, and so will friends, but memories we will have forever.:thankyou:

Mike it was great to meet you and talk about stuff. I look forward to seeing you at future events.


:cheers:

[Ron Sutton]

Ron -- Great compilation of the weekend! Thank goodness you have a mind like a steel trap. I can't remember anything except the fun stuff.


I will say that having Ron Sutton help with the two cars was the best money I've ever spent on a car -- and was also far cheaper than all the parts that I'd have bought to shave that time off --- and the car wouldn't have been better with more parts thrown at it.

I've said this - in a "nice way" <for me> many times -- and it always gets discounted as it's coming from the old fat guy.... but investing in drivers schools -- seat time -- and professional services such as what Ron offers (not your jackass buddy that THINKS he knows something) --- will do way more for you and your car than all the parts you think you need 'cause if all the parts aren't functioning the way they should be - ya got nothing.

If you're serious about your stuff... invest in some help like what Ron offers. It's the best money you've ever spent.

Hey Greg, thanks for the good words. :cheers:

RON: What about a 1/4 click on the left front and minus 1/2 click at the rear...
Oh yeah ... that's all we needed to run 2:00's. LOL :stirthepot:

Guess we'll work on all that the next session 'cause I ain't done with you yet! :>)

We worked well together & had a lot of fun, so I'm in. Let's stay focused on making the car better, safer & more fun. The lap times will take care of themselves.

I think 2 things would help ...
#1 Let's get that Mustang braking better so there's more stopping power & less praying on corner entry.
#2 Going fast in a 3000# 600 hp beast .... on 245 size tires ... is a manhood test. So let's increase the grip & stability.

[Sieg]

Nice smooth driving, looking good :thumbsup:. What kind of top speed were you running on the straights? It looked like you went into 5th gear on the long straight.

I can't believe the Corvette made the pass on on you while you were passing another car. He should have waited.... hopefully you saw him coming.
Thanks. Top speeds between T15-T1, T9-T10, and T13-T14 are relatively close depending on the drive you get......between 115 and maaaybe 125. That z06 drives off the corners HARD! He's probably close to 140-145 on the front straight.

I got to know the Z06 driver in the pits. He runs a good line and has good car control so I trusted him and he obviously trusted me. I didn't know he was there but had no problem with it, also trusted the M3 driver to my right as we'd diced it out a few times already. I was wondering what cop in the tower might be thinking as we went by 3 abreast though. :lol:

[GregWeld]

We worked well together & had a lot of fun, so I'm in. Let's stay focused on making the car better, safer & more fun. The lap times will take care of themselves.

I think 2 things would help ...
#1 Let's get that Mustang braking better so there's more stopping power & less praying on corner entry.
#2 Going fast in a 3000# 600 hp beast .... on 245 size tires ... is a manhood test. So let's increase the grip & stability.







Should I call or we can do brakes and shocks etc via email?????


I don't think that people with "PT" cars ----- watching these videos --- have any idea what driving these old beasts on those skinny tires is truly like. They watch the Corvettes with their HUGE tires -- HUGE brakes - Low coefficient of drag, fly by us and think how slow we are and why don't we just blow them up. HAHAHAHAHA OMG if they even had a f'n clue... I've said this in the past but I just don't think people understand. Two piston small rotors - single piston small rotor -- skinny tires -- lots of HP..... you discover that going into a corner and getting some speed scrubbed off is easier to say than do.

Where you really notice the BRAKING prowess -- is watching the deep braking of the LOTUS as compared to other cars. It's not the HP there that makes it fast -- it's the BRAKING.

I have no desire to go into the dirt at T1 -- or T14.... LOL

[Ron Sutton]

Should I call or we can do brakes and shocks etc via email?????
I'm already on it. I'll email you some info & we can discuss options.

I don't think that people with "PT" cars ----- watching these videos --- have any idea what driving these old beasts on those skinny tires is truly like. They watch the Corvettes with their HUGE tires -- HUGE brakes - Low coefficient of drag, fly by us and think how slow we are and why don't we just blow them up. HAHAHAHAHA OMG if they even had a f'n clue... I've said this in the past but I just don't think people understand. Two piston small rotors - single piston small rotor -- skinny tires -- lots of HP..... you discover that going into a corner and getting some speed scrubbed off is easier to say than do.

Oh man. The new stuff is cool. The Z06's are like a well engineered, streetable race car with big tires, big brakes, big power & aero. Of course, getting neat old muscle cars to handle & go fast is way cooler ... more of an accomplishment ... and expresses more individuality. Otherwise everyone out there would be Corvettes.

Where you really notice the BRAKING prowess -- is watching the deep braking of the LOTUS as compared to other cars. It's not the HP there that makes it fast -- it's the BRAKING.

I have no desire to go into the dirt at T1 -- or T14.... LOL

Agreed. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Ron --- When you have a chance -- You are welcome to tear me a new you know what with comments on my driving... etc (if you've watched the videos). Others may learn from my mistakes and poor judgement. And to me - that's what it's all about. Charley has already destroyed any ego I had.

[LM7_67]

Keep the car. We need to boost the NorCal first gen track car count.

And you don't want to miss out on the September NCRC get together between the NorCal and SoCal crowd at Buttonwillow.

Whoa whoa whoa, what if the AZ people want to come play too? Details?

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Whoa whoa whoa, what if the AZ people want to come play too? Details?

LM7 is especially welcome!!!!

[Sieg]

You are welcome to tear me a new you know what with comments on my driving... etc
:y0!: :y0!:

Can Charlie and me play!?

[GregWeld]

:y0!: :y0!:

Can Charlie and me play!?





Just NO!

[glassman]

So, in a nutshell, I can barely remember driving my car on Saturday. I managed to meet Sieg and Ron, but somehow missed Greg. My timing sucked for pretty much everything, as it seemed like if I was not on the track, I was literally running to the "classroom," as I was in school. The "classroom" sucked, but it was necessary for a few key pointers; mostly, it sucked, and it sucked up my ability to truly enjoy the day, the other cars, or the social elements of the environment. Oh well...

My main problem was sleep deprivation; I did my 120-or-so mile drive down on Saturday morning on about four hours of sleep (no problem--I drove a truck for a living for many years). I had a really cool instructor in the car (Joe Praxel?)--the guy in the classroom not so much. The in-car instructor took me out for one of his red group sessions in his California Special and managed to do a disco-spin going over that little hill; that was some good added value.

My car held up well for three sessions; I thought my basic street tires would be disinspiring, but they were surprisingly not. The suspension and steering felt great; my only confidence issue was my brakes, which still worked fine. I'm just not used to track-like braking requirements (no, no drums are on my car). Still, I actually remember very little of the driving, although the Blue Milk guys took some great feelthy peekchurs that I'll be paying money for, when I get another minute...

I finally managed to ride solo in my third session, and things went okay. That said, it's funny how 340 horsepower quickly feels like a shopping cart on a track. After the session, I heard some frying noises that turned out to be a bunch of water on the top of my motor, so I cut my losses and hit the road. I was so freaking sleepy that all I wanted to do was hit the Starbucks in Willows and go home to bed.

I got black flagged on my first lap, thanks to my cool instructor encouraging me to pass in a turn. Who was I to disagree?

I'm pretty sure that the only guy who passed me in my flaming-fast sessions was Glassman--the guy in the blue Camaro, I think...

So, my instructor wouldnt even let me warm up. I was lined up behind you in session one and he wanted my to pass you before turn two, i was like "um you know that said no passing till 9-10?" and he goes, "oh yeah". He was intense, hitting my hand off of my shifter etc,, 73 years old and he took me for a hot lap in his Cayman S, that was fun!!!

[intocarss]

Keep the car. We need to boost the NorCal first gen track car count.

And you don't want to miss out on the September NCRC get together between the NorCal and SoCal crowd at Buttonwillow. Sounds like fun..They allow pick up trucks?

[GregWeld]

Sounds like fun..They allow pick up trucks?




NO! They allow trucks but not trucks with automatics. In fact, I think that's banned EVERYWHERE

[intocarss]

NO! They allow trucks but not trucks with automatics. In fact, I think that's banned EVERYWHERE

POWERGLIDE ;) YOU'RE :welcome3:

_B0XolY9460

[Track Junky]

Whoa whoa whoa, what if the AZ people want to come play too? Details?


Sounds like fun..They allow pick up trucks?

Buttonwillow is a fun track to run but it gets hot as hell down there. NCRC has an event there every September and the temp's are a little more tolerable in September. We've managed to have two decent get together's there since 2010 and I'm hoping 2014 will give us another one.

[GregWeld]

We'd let that guy run with us....



LOL








POWERGLIDE ;) YOU'RE :welcome3:

_B0XolY9460

[Flash68]

Jer Dawg.

You're fired.

:poke:

[intocarss]

We'd let that guy run with us....



LOL
:hello: :goggles:

Jer Dawg.

You're fired.

:poke: Again!?!?!?!

[SSLance]

Ron --- When you have a chance -- You are welcome to tear me a new you know what with comments on my driving... etc (if you've watched the videos). Others may learn from my mistakes and poor judgement. And to me - that's what it's all about. Charley has already destroyed any ego I had.



I'm just glad Ron hasn't shared publically his comments on my driving on the autocross course last weekend. :twak:

I sent him the videos and my thoughts on what was going on and he immediately showed me some things that I was doing wrong...and how correcting them would make the car handle better and be faster on the clock. I can't wait for my next event now just to try to put his suggestions into action.

He is an invaluable resource for this sort of thing. We are so fortunate just to have him hanging around to show us the ropes.


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-GPpliTn65U0/U2zHOuf3uwI/AAAAAAAANtc/pmaXlt3-OWA/w900-h596-no/KCR_Event-3_05-04-14_126.JPG

[Sieg]

First session Sunday was entertaining, casual warm up lap, the first green flag lap had all the enthusiasm of a cool down lap, then heading into T1 on lap 3 the Cayman ahead of the Z06 I was following just about lost it on the exit for some added excitement, then the instructor in the white Mustang (ffffast) made an appearance, then before you know it's time to come in. :(

What I really enjoyed was the fact that the Cayman had nothing on the 2-Eleven off the corners and down the straight, I was feathering throttle following it, not the case with the Z06 though. Don't discount those little 1.8 liters!

1N49xyF4qxs

[GregWeld]

The Cayman needs to drop back down a group (yellow) and go back to driving school.... he's so far off the apex cones that it's obvious he has ZERO idea what they're telling him!

For the newbs (myself included)... the orange cone on the corners is an APEX marker... you basically want to try to touch it if you can in EVERY corner if you have the line to yourself (which we always do because we are not allowed to be 2 wide in a corner)... and HITTING the apex will have you EXIT properly. Take the apex WIDE and you run out of track on the exit. That's what happened to the Cayman in T1... Go back and see that he's in the middle of the track at the apex -- then he's way wide on exit -- and sees the edge of the track coming up to bite his ass.... and he tries to dial the car back in -- and has the ass end trying to come around on him. Rookie mistake.... but more importantly -- he never once was anywhere near the apex in any corner.

If you watch -- there is an APEX marker --- and on EXIT there is an EXIT marker.... You want to clip the apex and let the car come out to the exit cone ---- then it's "punch it! I know the road!" LOL

[GregWeld]

I'm just glad Ron SUTTON hasn't shared publically his comments on my driving on the autocross course last weekend.He is an invaluable resource for this sort of thing. We are so fortunate just to have him hanging around to show us the ropes.



I've never had a better weekend of driving than I just had with him in my pit!

There is nothing better than having a car that you trust and that acts the exact same way every time you go out. That is what I was having trouble with... because I was all over the map on tire pressures -- because I didn't know when I should be checking them and setting them etc. NOW I KNOW!

I learned so much - which made my driving better - which made the weekend more FUN.... That was my goal. It was so good (the weekend) and we learned so much - that I have now engaged Ron to help me again at Sonoma Raceway August 2nd and 3rd. Not sure what we'll work on -- but it will be whatever it will be -- THE DRIVER (nut behind the wheel) is what needs the most work as far as I'm concerned.... but his efforts just getting simple things dialed in on the car was just WOW! Who knew! The one weekend forever changed how the car drives.... and that's why I say it's the best money I ever spent on a car. What I learned in one weekend will help with every car I ever drive on a track. It's all transferable information.

[SSLance]

I just finished 29th out of 109 drivers in an SCCA Solo event with a ton of very experienced drivers in autocross specific type cars with a car not designed for autocross at all, that is on street tires, with a driver that doesn't know what he is doing...all because the car runs a setup Ron Sutton designed for a car he has never seen in person.

'nuff said...

:king:

I'm pretty familiar with the feeling you are talking about Greg...and it's awesome!

[Sieg]

I certainly cannot thank Ron enough. What he brought to the forefront were invaluable tools and thought processes for future events.

No more pulling into the pit parking the car and BSing with the nearest ear. The new standard operating procedure when exiting the track is get to the pit quickly dismount grab the infrared thermometer, tire pyrometer, and pressure gauge and get to work logging data.

At future events I'll further micromanage every detail and movement I make.

What I was really tried to improve on over the 2 days was braking/downshifting timing and modulation, turn-in points, apex and exit points, along with steering inputs and throttle application. When done right it should be like listening well orchestrated symphony........IMO.

Ron - Thanks for enhancing "the experience." As Greg previously mentioned - feel free to point out my shortcomings in the video. I have no problem being an example for a class.

[GregWeld]

I certainly cannot thank Ron enough. What he brought to the forefront were invaluable tools and thought processes for future events.

No more pulling into the pit parking the car and BSing with the nearest ear. The new standard operating procedure when exiting the track is get to the pit quickly dismount grab the infrared thermometer, tire pyrometer, and pressure gauge and get to work logging data.

At future events I'll further micromanage every detail and movement I make.

What I was really tried to improve on over the 2 days was braking/downshifting timing and modulation, turn-in points, apex and exit points, along with steering inputs and throttle application. When done right it should be like listening well orchestrated symphony........IMO.

Ron - Thanks for enhancing "the experience." As Greg previously mentioned - feel free to point out my shortcomings in the video. I have no problem being an example for a class.



Let us know when you find that pedal on the right....



LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


The video with the Vette and the Cayman.... I thought you three were driving to the Mall on a Sunday morning. I was tense by the time I got done watching that thing! I was like "Dude! <the Cayman> Hit the f'n apex -- and PUNCH IT I KNOW THE ROAD". Then I fell asleep.

[Sieg]

Let us know when you find that pedal on the right....



LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


The video with the Vette and the Cayman.... I thought you three were driving to the Mall on a Sunday morning. I was tense by the time I got done watching that thing! I was like "Dude! <the Cayman> Hit the f'n apex -- and PUNCH IT I KNOW THE ROAD". Then I fell asleep.

My primary goal for the two days was obtained.

.............I did not have to answer your question "which corner did you run out of talent in?" :action-smiley-027:

[Ron Sutton]

I certainly cannot thank Ron enough. What he brought to the forefront were invaluable tools and thought processes for future events.

No more pulling into the pit parking the car and BSing with the nearest ear. The new standard operating procedure when exiting the track is get to the pit quickly dismount grab the infrared thermometer, tire pyrometer, and pressure gauge and get to work logging data.

At future events I'll further micromanage every detail and movement I make.

What I was really tried to improve on over the 2 days was braking/downshifting timing and modulation, turn-in points, apex and exit points, along with steering inputs and throttle application. When done right it should be like listening well orchestrated symphony........IMO.

Ron - Thanks for enhancing "the experience." As Greg previously mentioned - feel free to point out my shortcomings in the video. I have no problem being an example for a class.

Hi Sieg,

It's hard to point out shortcomings, because your goal was to get some track time, have fun & not tear up Greg's toy. You achieved that very well.

The main issue with driving that speedy little car on track is so many other cars were slower. As they bunch up in front of you ... a guy has to ask himself is the risk of passing them all versus the gain ... when your goals are to simply get some track time, have fun & not tear up Greg's toy.

If you were racing, or running alone for fast time, the tips I would offer are:
a. Use ALL the track ... plus 2"

b. Work on carrying more corner entry speed by carrying full throttle farther & brake later into the corner ... 2' at a time ... until the rear end gets a tick free under braking, then back up this point until you regain good entry grip.

c. Next, work on carrying more mid-corner speed by braking less ... softer & shorter ... a little less each time ... until the rear end gets a tick free during the roll through zone (or pushes, depending on the set-up) then increase the braking distance until you regain good grip through the roll through zone.

* When deciding to brake harder versus longer to bring the roll through zone speed back down to achieve grip ... it is typically better to brake longer & softer as compared to harder & shorter. Braking harder has a tendency to upset the car more & "surprise" the tires. Plus braking soft longer keeps the nose planted longer for front tire grip.

d. Turn in later on most corners. Apex later.

e. On tight corners ... test & compare running a different line where you keep the car out wide longer & turn in later ... and turn in harder (at a higher degree) ... setting up your corner exit to be lower & straighter. Depending on the degree, I call this a 70/30 strategy (or if done to a lesser degree a 60/40 strategy). The goal is do 70% of the turning in the first half of the corner & only 30% of the turning on exit. This better matches the goals of matching slowing the car with more turning on entry & allowing faster throttle roll on due to the higher rear tire grip of the straighter exit line.

Many refer to this as simply a late apex style, but that's only partially accurate, as we can run a late apex and still not have the car turned 70% by mid way. In typical high powered cars, this 70/30 strategy is "usually" the faster way around tight radius corners.

* But ... in some super low powered, light, good handling cars ... sometimes the fastest way is to run the biggest radius possible through tight corners ... to keep the rolling speed & exit speed as high as possible. We won a lot Formula Ford races there at T-Hill with this strategy. These cars only weigh 900# & have 110hp. In the F2000 cars, with more power & down force, this wasn't necessary.

The Lotus is part way between that and typical track car. So I'd try both ways with corner segment timers to know for sure.


:cheers:

[GregWeld]

Hi Sieg,

It's hard to point out shortcomings, because your goal was to get some track time, have fun & not tear up Greg's toy. You achieved that very well.

The main issue with driving that speedy little car on track is so many other cars were slower. As they bunch up in front of you ... a guy has to ask himself is the risk of passing them all versus the gain ... when your goals are to simply get some track time, have fun & not tear up Greg's toy.

If you were racing, or running alone for fast time, the tips I would offer are:
a. Use ALL the track ... plus 2"

b. Work on carrying more corner entry speed by carrying full throttle farther & brake later into the corner ... 2' at a time ... until the rear end gets a tick free under braking, then back up this point until you regain good entry grip.

c. Next, work on carrying more mid-corner speed by braking less ... softer & shorter ... a little less each time ... until the rear end gets a tick free during the roll through zone (or pushes, depending on the set-up) then increase the braking distance until you regain good grip through the roll through zone.

* When deciding to brake harder versus longer to bring the roll through zone speed back down to achieve grip ... it is typically better to brake longer & softer as compared to harder & shorter. Braking harder has a tendency to upset the car more & "surprise" the tires. Plus braking soft longer keeps the nose planted longer for front tire grip.

d. Turn in later on most corners. Apex later.

e. On tight corners ... test & compare running a different line where you keep the car out wide longer & turn in later ... and turn in harder (at a higher degree) ... setting up your corner exit to be lower & straighter. Depending on the degree, I call this a 70/30 strategy (or if done to a lesser degree a 60/40 strategy). The goal is do 70% of the turning in the first half of the corner & only 30% of the turning on exit. This better matches the goals of matching slowing the car with more turning on entry & allowing faster throttle roll on due to the higher rear tire grip of the straighter exit line.

Many refer to this as simply a late apex style, but that's only partially accurate, as we can run a late apex and still not have the car turned 70% by mid way. In typical high powered cars, this 70/30 strategy is "usually" the faster way around tight radius corners.

* But ... in some super low powered, light, good handling cars ... sometimes the fastest way is to run the biggest radius possible through tight corners ... to keep the rolling speed & exit speed as high as possible. We won a lot Formula Ford races there at T-Hill with this strategy. These cars only weigh 900# & have 110hp. In the F2000 cars, with more power & down force, this wasn't necessary.

The Lotus is part way between that and typical track car. So I'd try both ways with corner segment timers to know for sure.


:cheers:









In other words:


Dear Sieg,


YOU SUCK.



Signed,
Charley Lillard

[Ron Sutton]

I'm just glad Ron hasn't shared publically his comments on my driving on the autocross course last weekend. :twak:

I sent him the videos and my thoughts on what was going on and he immediately showed me some things that I was doing wrong...and how correcting them would make the car handle better and be faster on the clock. I can't wait for my next event now just to try to put his suggestions into action.

He is an invaluable resource for this sort of thing. We are so fortunate just to have him hanging around to show us the ropes.



In the racing world, everybody picks up nick names. One buddy of mine is named "Hatrack" because when he was a rookie on Bud Moore's Cup team, Bud told him ... in front of God & everyone ... that he needed to use his head for more than a hatrack. :sieg:

P.S. Hatrack rose to the level of being a NASCAR Busch series crew chief, winning car builder, etc. But he still goes by Hatrack to this day.

Dave (Flash68) Gordon got a new nickname last weekend ... Cheeseball ... because Greg brought this OMG huge jar of cheeseballs to the track (must have been the size of a beer keg) ... and Dave couldn't stop eating them. :poke:

Dave's probably hoping that one doesn't stick to him like the fake cheese coloring did to his fingers. But typically nicknames stick until a better one comes along.

Of course when Cheeseball, Mike & I were up watching cars on track, I pointed out drivers braking so much they were almost "parking" their cars going into the Crow's Nest corner. I explained how I knew they were "parking" their cars ... because I saw the Sonic waitress rolling out on her skates to take their order. :lmao:

Using that analogy, we'd need to name Greg "Drive Thru" because he was flying through the Crow's Nest. But I'm sure a situation will arise that leads to better one. :thumbsup:

So Lance, if I was creating your nickname from the last video I watched, it would be either "sawdust" or "lumberjack." :superhack:


:cheers:

[GregWeld]

In the racing world, everybody picks up nick names. One buddy of mine is named "Hatrack" because when he was a rookie on Bud Moore's Cup team, Bud told him ... in front of God & everyone ... that he needed to use his head for more than a hatrack. :sieg:

P.S. Hatrack rose to the level of being a NASCAR Busch series crew chief, winning car builder, etc. But he still goes by Hatrack to this day.

Dave (Flash68) Gordon got a new nickname last weekend ... Cheeseball ... because Greg brought this OMG huge jar of cheeseballs to the track (must have been the size of a beer keg) ... and Dave couldn't stop eating them. :poke:

Dave's probably hoping that one doesn't stick to him like the fake cheese coloring did to his fingers. But typically nicknames stick until a better one comes along.

Of course when Cheeseball, Mike & I were up watching cars on track, I pointed out drivers braking so much they were almost "parking" their cars going into the Crow's Nest corner. I explained how I knew they were "parking" their cars ... because I saw the Sonic waitress rolling out on her skates to take their order. :lmao:

Using that analogy, we'd need to name Greg "Drive Thru" because he was flying through the Crow's Nest. But I'm sure a situation will arise that leads to better one. :thumbsup:

So Lance, if I was creating your nickname from the last video I watched, it would be either "sawdust" or "lumberjack." :superhack:


:cheers:








I like yours better than "The Tasmanian Devil" that Charley started calling me after my first few "over rotations"....

[fleetus macmullitz]

So impressed what you bring to the table Ron. :thumbsup:

At SEMA, some off-shore 'interests' may try to clone you.

:guns:



lol

[SSLance]

So Lance, if I was creating your nickname from the last video I watched, it would be either "sawdust" or "lumberjack." :superhack:


:cheers:





lol...

I would have never noticed that action myself and no veteran that has ridden with me has ever mentioned it either, and I'm certain I've "sawed" on the wheel since the very beginning.

I won't be able to NOT think about that the next time I'm out on the course. Thanks...

[Damn True]

In the racing world, everybody picks up nick names.......




This could get awesome/ugly.

[Ron Sutton]

This could get awesome/ugly.

That's true. Damn true. :ohsnap:

[Ron Sutton]

Ron --- When you have a chance -- You are welcome to tear me a new you know what with comments on my driving... etc (if you've watched the videos). Others may learn from my mistakes and poor judgement. And to me - that's what it's all about. Charley has already destroyed any ego I had.


LOL ... Ok. I'll generalize what I observed, although I don't know what session that was.

In general ...
* Your lines are good.
* You were pretty smooth, although I can't see the steering wheel in the video.
* You're using 97% of the track
* Your braking was as good as could be done with the brakes not balanced. I occasionally heard brake hop.

In the first lap ... You were turning into the corner too early starting with 6 ... up through 10. In the 2nd & 3rd lap you started turning in later (better) in some but not all of 6-10. After that, your turn-in points were too early in 6-10.

You're going to hate this ... but Charley's lines through 6-10 are perfect. He is keeping the car out wider on entry ... turning later & harder ... apexing later ... and coming off straighter on the exits. That is what you need to do in 6-10:
* Stay out to the outside edge of the track longer
* Turn in later & harder
* Apex later
* Lessen the amount of turning needed on exits (straighten out the exits)

Also, you need to turn into turn 1 a bit later & apex a bit later. :confused59:

Currently, the brakes are not allowing to go deep without locking up. I think when the brakes allow you to brake later ... all of this will be easier to accomplish.

Your entry into 14 is awesome. You need to use more track between 14-15 and get out wider ... all the way wide ... before going into 15 ... to set up more speed coming onto the straight.

Lastly, how you're getting through the Crow's Nest is inspiring. This is turn 5 for those of you not familiar with the track. This is the toughest corner for most drivers. As I joked earlier, Cheeseball, Mike & I were watching most drivers "park" their cars into that corner. So, don't change a thing ... as most these guys need to learn from you how to "Drive-Thru" that corner. :thumbsup:


:cheers:

[GregWeld]

Funny because I noticed Charley's line as well and he flat spanked me in that section! Well.... really on the whole track -- but I really noticed how much speed he carried 6 thru 10....


I have difficulty with late apex's --- it just seems wrong to me. I will have to work on those! It seems to me that LATE apex's require a bigger turn-in..... and that always puckers me -- because I think I should be smooth and turn LESS.... yet - as you point out -- turning in later smoothes out the exit. I get it... but I don't get it....

[Sieg]

Charlie gapped you bad out of 14........I should make him a "He Sucks" decal for his rear view mirror!


:underchair: