Thunderhill - NorCal Shelby Spring event

[Sieg]

I have difficulty with late apex's --- it just seems wrong to me. I will have to work on those! It seems to me that LATE apex's require a bigger turn-in..... and that always puckers me -- because I think I should be smooth and turn LESS.... yet - as you point out -- turning in later smoothes out the exit. I get it... but I don't get it....
Wider/Deeper entry when possible?

[GregWeld]

Wider/Deeper entry when possible?




I'm going to really miss you at Sonoma.....

[Sieg]

I'm going to really miss you at Sonoma.....

Not if I'm behind you. :underchair:

[Ron Sutton]

Wider/Deeper entry when possible?

I'm not sure if this question is an attempt at humor between you & "Drive-Thru" or if it's a real question.

Just in case ... I'll answer it seriously.

Typically ... as in 8-9 times out of 10 ...
The tighter the corner is, the faster strategy is keep the car out wide longer, go deep, brake later, turn later, turn more (quicker) and get more (60-70%) of the turning done before mid corner, apex later ... and do less turning (30-40%) on exit ... which straightens out the exit to a degree, adding traction for quicker throttle roll on & acceleration.

The larger radius, faster speed, more sweeping design the corner is, the less this strategy applies. What typically works better in big radius, fast corners is to be wide on entry, split the turning 50/50 between the first half & second half, run a low, middle apex & wide exit out to the edge of the track.

The key is to understand these concepts ... apply them both to different degrees ... and see what's faster.

There are exceptions for many reasons ... but the most common reason an optimum line on paper doesn't work on track ... is the track surface itself. In the real world ... bumps, surface transitions, irregular surfaces, banking/camber and even where tire rubber gets laid down ... all play a role.

Another exception is the set-up of the car. I don't think I can count as high as the many different suspension combinations that can be run ... that affect what the car "likes" and therefore what lines work best. Set-ups with higher roll angles are more edgy ... and therefore more sensitive to specific lines & driver smoothness. Flatter set-ups are more forgiving and versatile, typically able to run more different lines on the track.

I have a great racing buddy ... that was a terror on track and could win from the back ... say one time, "You know it's funny. We spend all practice day running the "perfect line" ... then come race day ... when they throw the green linen ... we drive everywhere on the track but the perfect line ... to pass cars. Only the leader can run the perfect line the whole race ... and then only if they're not under attack."

This is one of many reasons I prefer flatter running suspension set-ups. Because in racing, if you're passing cars, you gotta go where they're not.

[Sieg]

It was somewhat a suggestion, the question mark meant I was hoping you'd answer.......and you did in typical A+ fashion. :thumbsup:

[DBasher]

Ron, Sieg, Glassman, Greg...thank you all for sharing the weekend adventures! The pictures and videos are cool but the description on lines and braking, what needs improvement and professional feedback is awesome!

:thumbsup:
Dan

P.s. I got dibs on the old worn out insufficient brakes coming off the Mustang....just sayin

[Sieg]

This could get awesome/ugly.

Yes, yes it could.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-q3mSDZz/0/XL/i-q3mSDZz-XL.jpg

I'm thinking about having a pair bronzed for him to hang from the mirror of BMF v2.2.

[GregWeld]

Ron, Sieg, Glassman, Greg...thank you all for sharing the weekend adventures! The pictures and videos are cool but the description on lines and braking, what needs improvement and professional feedback is awesome!

:thumbsup:
Dan

P.s. I got dibs on the old worn out insufficient brakes coming off the Mustang....just sayin




Anything I take off of it is yours.... Seriously. Just don't hold your breath 'cause we won't be making major changes until AFTER the August Sonoma event.

[Sieg]

Ron, Sieg, Glassman, Greg...thank you all for sharing the weekend adventures! The pictures and videos are cool but the description on lines and braking, what needs improvement and professional feedback is awesome!

:thumbsup:
Dan

P.s. I got dibs on the old worn out insufficient brakes coming off the Mustang....just sayin

You're welcome Dan. It was a great time and learning experience, the more it's shared the more gain desire and skills and that helps everyone. The jousting, smack-talk, nicknames, pranks, etc make it too much fun! It was a pleasure being with such a great group of people.........I simply love being in the track environment.

:thumbsup:

[DBasher]

Sieg I hear ya on the good times at the track, Bonneville has been my "track time" for quite awhile. I'm new at this turning and braking thing (obviously) and have had a blast at the local auto-x, SEMA and the USCA Laguna event a few months ago, all good people!

Greg I appreciate the offer and will take you up on it! Nows the time to start thinking about that LS motor you've always wanted!! :whistling: :cheering: :brix:

Dan

[Vegas69]

It's like Phil Jackson coaching little league.

It would be interesting to see Ron set up a super low budget car and compete against the cream of the crop around here. Focus on getting as close to 100% out of the car and driver.

[Track Junky]

It's like Phil Jackson coaching little league.

It would be interesting to see Ron set up a super low budget car and compete against the cream of the crop around here. Focus on getting as close to 100% out of the car and driver.

That's pretty much what he did with Greg. Doesn't get much more low budget than his Mustang. Last I heard Hobaugh did a 2:06 at T-Hill with cyclone on slicks. Greg's at 2:08

[GregWeld]

It's like Phil Jackson coaching little league.




You crack me up and your comment is spot on!!


I thought about this A LOT -- that I would be completely wasting his time...


I was afraid he <Ron> was going to turn my low budget track time <sitting on my ass after driving a bit> into a full on race team weekend! But he settled right into just having a good time - with great info and management tossed in for good measure. The great management and info was subtle - useful - helpful - brilliant and it turned our weekend into the best track driving weekend in the UNIVERSE... (thanks again AL!)

[Vegas69]

I bet Ron is enjoying it just as much. I can imagine that helping a pro driver with a set up race car is a game of fractions and a lack of appreciation. No pressure to win, huge gains, and a fun spirit has to be a breath of fresh air.

[Damn True]

I have a great racing buddy ... that was a terror on track and could win from the back ... say one time, "You know it's funny. We spend all practice day running the "perfect line" ... then come race day ... when they throw the green linen ... we drive everywhere on the track but the perfect line ... to pass cars. Only the leader can run the perfect line the whole race ... and then only if they're not under attack."

This is one of many reasons I prefer flatter running suspension set-ups. Because in racing, if you're passing cars, you gotta go where they're not.



Particularly true in endurance racing given the tremendous disparities in speeds between the faster and slower classes.

[Damn True]

Sieg I hear ya on the good times at the track, Bonneville has been my "track time" for quite awhile. I'm new at this turning and braking thing (obviously) and have had a blast at the local auto-x, SEMA and the USCA Laguna event a few months ago, all good people!

Greg I appreciate the offer and will take you up on it! Nows the time to start thinking about that LS motor you've always wanted!! :whistling: :cheering: :brix:

Dan


Bonneville huh? We need to talk.

[DBasher]

Damn, it's not what you think....more of a father son thing with my dad. We set some personal goals and have had a blast. I used to tell people we've got the fastest Studebaker powered Studebaker.....in Seattle!

As long as you're prepared its one of the best places on earth. Imagine hearing a top fuel motor run WOT for 5 miles.....ya, it's cool!

:thumbsup:
Dan

[Damn True]

Damn, it's not what you think....more of a father son thing with my dad. We set some personal goals and have had a blast. I used to tell people we've got the fastest Studebaker powered Studebaker.....in Seattle!

As long as you're prepared its one of the best places on earth. Imagine hearing a top fuel motor run WOT for 5 miles.....ya, it's cool!

:thumbsup:
Dan


It's a bucket list item for me. I've no aspiration to the big meet, but the "regular dude" meets where you can run a street car intrest me.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

nothing like salt in your crack!

[Sieg]

Ron - Here's the last session, first 15 minutes was short shifting to avoid being flagged so I was attempting to stay on the throttle a little longer, brake a little deeper, and utilize more track when traffic allowed. 2:18-2:20's were the results. The last few laps were a little more aggressive......then the battery died. I'm certain those laps were in the 2:06-2:07 range. :whistling:

YozquZCHKVk

[GregWeld]

Ron - Here's the last session, first 15 minutes was short shifting to avoid being flagged so I was attempting to stay on the throttle a little longer, brake a little deeper, and utilize more track when traffic allowed. 2:18-2:20's were the results. The last few laps were a little more aggressive......then the battery died. I'm certain those laps were in the 2:06-2:07 range. :whistling:



So you suddenly found that the rev limiter is like 2000 rpm's higher than where you've been driving it? I had to run some carb cleaner in it when I got home to clear the carbon buildup out....

[Sieg]

So you suddenly found that the rev limiter is like 2000 rpm's higher than where you've been driving it? I had to run some carb cleaner in it when I got home to clear the carbon buildup out....

Ha ha Ha!

What I feared most next to answering your "what corner did you run out of talent" question and hearing about it for 600 miles was the jerks waving this flag at me:

http://www.wheelsofitaly.com/wiki/images/thumb/9/9d/Auto_Racing_Orange_Circle.png/100px-Auto_Racing_Orange_Circle.png

:D

[Ron Sutton]

I bet Ron is enjoying it just as much. I can imagine that helping a pro driver with a set up race car is a game of fractions and a lack of appreciation. No pressure to win, huge gains, and a fun spirit has to be a breath of fresh air.

Bingo! :thumbsup:

[Ron Sutton]

Particularly true in endurance racing given the tremendous disparities in speeds between the faster and slower classes.

So true ...True.

Sure ... you want to be fast on the perfect line. But more important is you need a car that will drive well on most any line.

We even saw this in SCCA Formula Fords. It is a 4 class group running, with FF cars all typically up front. In a short time you're coming up on slower cars to lap ... with fast competitors on your tail. You can't wait for the "perfect passing opportunity." To win, you gotta take unconventional lines ... and you need a car/suspension set-up that will do it.

So believe or not, we're on a high travel/low roll set-up in FF. Of course high travel is relative. Our front springs are half the rate of the rest of the field and the sway bar is on full stiff. This makes the car turn better & drive well in a wider range of lines.

Where our competitors' cars were typically soft on the bar & stiff on the front springs. Their higher roll angle (again relative to other FFs) makes the cars more edgy. It can be fast, but not as forgiving. You need to run the perfect line & be super smooth with high roll angles.

[Ron Sutton]

Ron - Here's the last session, first 15 minutes was short shifting to avoid being flagged so I was attempting to stay on the throttle a little longer, brake a little deeper, and utilize more track when traffic allowed. 2:18-2:20's were the results. The last few laps were a little more aggressive......then the battery died. I'm certain those laps were in the 2:06-2:07 range. :whistling:

YozquZCHKVk


The second half of that was looking pretty good. I thought we had you at a 2:13 best in the last session ... yes?

[Sieg]

The second half of that was looking pretty good. I thought we had you at a 2:13 best in the last session ... yes?




I caught one relatively clean lap on one of my video's that was 2:11......coincidence?
I'm going to put a stopwatch on the video just for fun.

Have I mentioned that car is an absolute riot to drive! :excited: :excited:

The amount of grip leaves you pondering how much talent you left on your pit table. :sieg: :D

Edit: 2:13-2:14 is what you told me. Most laps were typically 2:15-2:20.
Still haven't found that miracle lap....... :D

[Ron in SoCal]

[on.soapbox]

"Running out of talent"

Sieg not directed at you at all but I personally hate that phrase when describing driver/on track issues issues. If one were to describe a heroic effort at a best lap or race win and didn't quite get there, that'd be technically correct IMO. OTOH, if you're not driving at the edge, you're not tying hard enough. Why would anyone describe that as running out of talent?? No one here has ever gone off track? Is that running out of talent? Sheet, I hit the cones on the local go kart track. Now that's talent!

We're all amatuers here last I checked. If someone is a better driver than another and makes a joke because someone 'ran out of talent' than that's just assinine. F'n superiority complex and hanging out with the wrong crowd I'd say, cause that's not who most of us here are.

Lastly, if describing 'that guy' on the track (not you Sieg), than I think it's probably the 'proper' use of the phrase. :guns:

Been meaning to say this for a long time. JMHO...back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[/off.soapbox]

[Sieg]

When you're attempting to keep up with faster drivers or riders as in my motorcycle past, no matter if it's recreational or organized racing, I feel it is very accurate in describing the fact that you were driving or riding over your head in an attempt to keep pace with someone you knew was faster.......and in that case I absolutely perceive it as running out of talent and on bikes it hurts, sometimes real bad! :D

[73CPCAMARO]

That's pretty much what he did with Greg. Doesn't get much more low budget than his Mustang. Last I heard Hobaugh did a 2:06 at T-Hill with cyclone on slicks. Greg's at 2:08

I wish I was out there with you guys. I was in Marina playing with pylons instead. I plan on getting on the new track this summer.

The 2:06 I did was on the Michelin Super Sports. The last time I was there I was running 2:03's with my Camaro on the Super Sports. I am running about 8-9 10ths of my comfort level. I really want to push it a bit more next time. I will also try the Falken's next time.

Brian

[FETorino]

It appears "running out of talent" has become an idiom within the PT community. It's figurative meaning is different than it's literal meaning.

For some, not all, the Figurative meaning is meant as an insult to someone's driving skills. If you've seen it used this way Bad Ron, then I understand why you don't care for it's use.

Now if Sieg wants to describe himself as "running out of talent" certainly no harm no foul. Self deprecation is a good way to ease the tension when you feel uncomfortable about something.

Of course it doesn't make sense literally in the context it was used because Sieg never had any talent to begin with; so he couldn't have run out. But figuratively we knew what he meant. :popcorn2:

[GregWeld]

When you're attempting to keep up with faster drivers or riders as in my motorcycle past, no matter if it's recreational or organized racing, I feel it is very accurate in describing the fact that you were driving or riding over your head in an attempt to keep pace with someone you knew was faster.......and in that case I absolutely perceive it as running out of talent and on bikes it hurts, sometimes real bad! :D




Egg sack lee....



It's the perfect description. I know this first hand because it's happened to me every time I THOUGHT I should be able to keep up with "X" car that just blew by me like I was hooked to a fire hydrant.... then I suddenly would find the loud pedal and try to stay up with him/her.... And then the talent runs out.


It's not a PUT DOWN Ron.... which apparently you think it is... rather -- it's an accurate description of what happens when you are driving over your head far enough to get yourself and the car in trouble.

Trying to "explore your limits" with other people and their cars on the track is not the place to be doing that. The limit should be when you're IN CONTROL of your car at all times... go beyond that and you put other peoples equipment and their safety at jeopardy. It took me about three + track events to discover this.

This is why I point people by --- I'm still a newb at this --- and I'm running Green group with other very experienced drivers.... so the way to explore is to learn from their line -- see if you can stay somewhere near them... and get some seat time etc. As soon as I find myself at MY limits - I've learned to back off and let 'em go lest I run out of talent. LOL

[Sieg]

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/10268526_10152079332521850_6462484970238043583_n.j pg

:D

[Ron in SoCal]

Egg sack lee....





Yeah probably :D

Just to be clear, what Sieg posted and you said above was what I meant with this line:

"If one were to describe a heroic effort at a best lap or race win and didn't quite get there, that'd be technically correct IMO."

Rob stated it very well, I was more referring to the derogatory use some have displayed at track events, with the exeption of "that guy" (asswipe) as I put it.

I also think you don't wreck someone else's car, and self depreciating humor is always fun.

[GregWeld]

Here's where I take umbrage at the "running out of talent".... If I say that to Sieg... that would imply that he started with some.

[Sieg]

Here's where I take umbrage at the "running out of talent".... If I say that to Sieg... that would imply that he started with some.

I couldn't spell it right without spell check. :sieg:

[FETorino]

Here's where I take umbrage at the "running out of talent".... If I say that to Sieg... that would imply that he started with some.

Hey that was my line :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Sieg your video looked pretty good except that one gear crunching episode.:D

Smooth, if conservative, lines and if I were driving something that expensive I didn't own I'd be using less than all of the track also.

[GregWeld]

Hey that was my line :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Sieg your video looked pretty good except that one gear crunching episode.:D

Smooth, if conservative, lines and if I were driving something that expensive I didn't own I'd be using less than all of the track also.




I liked your original post better!



HAHAHAHAHAHA

[FETorino]

I liked your original post better!



HAHAHAHAHAHA

You said umbrage...:lol: :lmao: :lol: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

For those that don't skip right to the end t he post is still there and will provide a good story line.

[Sieg]

The second half of that was looking pretty good. I thought we had you at a 2:13 best in the last session ... yes?




Found it. 2:11.77 according to my timing:

LTzoSKGjAvE

IMO I left a lot of time on the table in that lap: T1 (respect), T2 (5+mph), T4 (line & throttle), T5b (throttle), T6 (line), T7 (little lift), T8 (line & little lift), T10 (early off throttle, early on brakes, shallow exit), off the throttle before the bridge on the back straight, traffic T14-T15, trailing throttle at the flag tower. That car is too much fun to drive! :D

[Sieg]

Hey that was my line :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Sieg your video looked pretty good except that one gear crunching episode.:D

Smooth, if conservative, lines and if I were driving something that expensive I didn't own I'd be using less than all of the track also.

Thank you..........thank you very much. :D

Don't think I ever crunched one but missed a few short-shifting thus being out my routine.........I'm easily confused :sieg: and that cable shifter isn't nearly as tight as the Hurst on my T56.

That car is very confidence inspiring thus you really have to keep yourself in check. It just begs you to keep pushing it harder. I never had even a hint of a "moment" in two days.

[GregWeld]

I ordered new shift cables yesterday from Sector 111.... and a new shift knob with more "weight"...


With the Yokohama A005's in Soft compound -- a few other little things added... it should be even easier - thus more fun - to drive.



I must say -- for those that don't know us very well --- we have a great time doing all of this!

[Sieg]

I ordered new shift cables yesterday from Sector 111.... and a new shift knob with more "weight"...


With the Yokohama A005's in Soft compound -- a few other little things added... it should be even easier - thus more fun - to drive.
I saw those goodies on their site this morning. More fun.......:rofl:


I must say -- for those that don't know us very well --- we have a great time doing all of this!
Quite possibly the understatement of 2014. :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

Geez, what a knitting club over-analysis of something. :sieg:

Mary Pozzi has been using that phrase for years in this community and she probably heard it from someone who'd been using it for umpteen years prior to that.

If you don't have talent, then there's nothing to worry about.

If you do have talent, don't run out of it while your buddies are around and/or while the GoPro is running. :goggles:

Brian -- nice times on street tires. Looks like you got some work to do, Gaetano. :mock:

[intocarss]

We been using that term "he ran out of talent" and "he had it under control right up until he lost it" for 20+ years.

It's funny reading this tonight because the guy pitted next to us crashed, we asked what happen? He said "I just ran out of talent while trying to make that pass"

[Damn True]

[on.soapbox]

"Running out of talent"

Sieg not directed at you at all but I personally hate that phrase when describing driver/on track issues issues. If one were to describe a heroic effort at a best lap or race win and didn't quite get there, that'd be technically correct IMO. OTOH, if you're not driving at the edge, you're not tying hard enough. Why would anyone describe that as running out of talent?? No one here has ever gone off track? Is that running out of talent? Sheet, I hit the cones on the local go kart track. Now that's talent!

We're all amatuers here last I checked. If someone is a better driver than another and makes a joke because someone 'ran out of talent' than that's just assinine. F'n superiority complex and hanging out with the wrong crowd I'd say, cause that's not who most of us here are.

Lastly, if describing 'that guy' on the track (not you Sieg), than I think it's probably the 'proper' use of the phrase. :guns:

Been meaning to say this for a long time. JMHO...back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[/off.soapbox]

It's fairly common parlance amongst racers. In that context it isn't meant as an insult. It's a means of explaining in simplest terms that at the absolute limit sometimes stuff happens that one simply is unable to compensate for. "Stuff" can be mechanical, or driver error and it happens to everyone. Schumacher ran out of talent once in a while, Senna once too often. Certainly doesn't make them lesser drivers.

That said, HPDE drivers should never be that close to the edge of the envelope of either the ability of themselves or the car.

[Track Junky]

I wish I was out there with you guys. I was in Marina playing with pylons instead. I plan on getting on the new track this summer.

The 2:06 I did was on the Michelin Super Sports. The last time I was there I was running 2:03's with my Camaro on the Super Sports. I am running about 8-9 10ths of my comfort level. I really want to push it a bit more next time. I will also try the Falken's next time.

Brian

Thanks for clarifying Brian.

Brian -- nice times on street tires. Looks like you got some work to do, Gaetano. :mock:

What, I don't get a handicap for narrower track width, narrower tires, and sub par suspension? OK fine. Tell you what Cheese Ball........ If I knock down something in between 2:00 & 2:01.9 in a couple of weeks the nick name Cheese Ball is gonna grow legs to your neck. :unibrow:

[GregWeld]

Thanks for clarifying Brian.



What, I don't get a handicap for narrower track width, narrower tires, and sub par suspension? OK fine. Tell you what Cheese Ball........ If I knock down something in between 2:00 & 2:01.9 in a couple of weeks the nick name Cheese Ball is gonna grow legs to your neck. :unibrow:




With one guy lying, and the other guy swearing to it.....

[GregWeld]

I wish I was out there with you guys. I was in Marina playing with pylons instead. I plan on getting on the new track this summer.

The 2:06 I did was on the Michelin Super Sports. The last time I was there I was running 2:03's with my Camaro on the Super Sports. I am running about 8-9 10ths of my comfort level. I really want to push it a bit more next time. I will also try the Falken's next time.

Brian




Thanks for just crushing my dreams of ever getting near a 06 !! IF you can run that time I never will get close! UGH.... Slicks or no slicks...


For those that don't understand... the man can wheel a car around.



If you want to go for a track record Brian --- I'll buy the slicks! 'cause I think you could do it!

[GregWeld]

For those readers that don't do track days or racing....


Don't get caught up in the "times" quoted around here. There is no real comparison in lap times from one car to the next - so the DRIVER portion is completely useless.

In racing - there are classes with rules in an effort to keep the cars as similar as possible... THEN the driver comes in to play.

Here (this thread) - we're comparing lap times in completely dissimilar cars. Different weights - different horse power - different tires - different tire sizes... So the lap times are completely meaningless. There is no way of handicapping these times by saying - "yeah but... you got 900hp on street tires and I only have 590hp on X".... because the car's weight isn't baked in the cake etc.


It's all just for fun but is as useless as the cheese balls.

[Vegas69]

Greg, Impressive to get that close to Brian in that old heap. I'm just hoping you aren't in diapers by the time these bozos get their cars on the track. I'm looking forward to ripping on them for years about you smoking them on 245's.

[Track Junky]

With one guy lying, and the other guy swearing to it.....

Keep fueling the fire gramps :beavis: :lol:

[73CPCAMARO]

We been using that term "he ran out of talent" and "he had it under control right up until he lost it" for 20+ years.

It's funny reading this tonight because the guy pitted next to us crashed, we asked what happen? He said "I just ran out of talent while trying to make that pass"

I have used this on myself and others for a long time. No insult meant at all. It is just used to explain a driving failure of some type and not a mechanical failure. Can't blame the car on that one.

[Sieg]

With one guy lying, and the other guy swearing to it.....

Keep fueling the fire gramps :beavis: :lol:

...........and that's when the fight started. :lol:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Thanks for clarifying Brian.



What, I don't get a handicap for narrower track width, narrower tires, and sub par suspension? OK fine. Tell you what Cheese Ball........ If I knock down something in between 2:00 & 2:01.9 in a couple of weeks the nick name Cheese Ball is gonna grow legs to your neck. :unibrow:

don't use your so called handicap for an excuss. Its your choice to be fast or not.

"FIGHT"

[Track Junky]

don't use your so called handicap for an excuss. Its your choice to be fast or not.

"FIGHT"

I'd have to say at this point my downfall is front shocks. Single adjustable QA-1's just don't cut the muster and even though I finally got the front to stick better I can still feel a bit of bounce. Hopefully in a couple of months we can get the chicane deal and the front coil overs installed.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I'd have to say at this point my downfall is front shocks. Single adjustable QA-1's just don't cut the muster and even though I finally got the front to stick better I can still feel a bit of bounce. Hopefully in a couple of months we can get the chicane deal and the front coil overs installed.

You know what they say about the guy that makes too many changes at once don't you?

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Geez, what a knitting club over-analysis of something. :sieg:

Mary Pozzi has been using that phrase for years in this community and she probably heard it from someone who'd been using it for umpteen years prior to that.

If you don't have talent, then there's nothing to worry about.

If you do have talent, don't run out of it while your buddies are around and/or while the GoPro is running. :goggles:

Brian -- nice times on street tires. Looks like you got some work to do, Gaetano. :mock:

We been using that term "he ran out of talent" and "he had it under control right up until he lost it" for 20+ years.

It's funny reading this tonight because the guy pitted next to us crashed, we asked what happen? He said "I just ran out of talent while trying to make that pass"

It's fairly common parlance amongst racers. In that context it isn't meant as an insult. It's a means of explaining in simplest terms that at the absolute limit sometimes stuff happens that one simply is unable to compensate for. "Stuff" can be mechanical, or driver error and it happens to everyone. Schumacher ran out of talent once in a while, Senna once too often. Certainly doesn't make them lesser drivers.

That said, HPDE drivers should never be that close to the edge of the envelope of either the ability of themselves or the car.

Talent is what keeps you out there on the edge of failure...once you have extended your reach of your personal talent, things break or you do things unintentionally. This includes your knowing the cars ability.

[Vegas69]

I ran out of talent at nearly every event I attended. That's how you learn the weaknesses of your car and driving skills. As you gain experience and confidence as a driver, you continue to find faults with your car as you gain speed. As you fix those faults, then it's back on you as a driver to find the line in the sand again.

[intocarss]

I ran out of talent at nearly every event I attended. That's how you learn the weaknesses of your car and driving skills. As you gain experience and confidence as a driver, you continue to find faults with your car as you gain speed. As you fix those faults, then it's back on you as a driver to find the line in the sand again.Spoken for the truth

[GregWeld]

I ran out of talent at nearly every event I attended. That's how you learn the weaknesses of your car and driving skills. As you gain experience and confidence as a driver, you continue to find faults with your car as you gain speed. As you fix those faults, then it's back on you as a driver to find the line in the sand again.




Good thing you quit when you did! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA




Sorry dude! Just couldn't help myself....

[patoke]

Ron --- When you have a chance -- You are welcome to tear me a new you know what with comments on my driving... etc (if you've watched the videos). Others may learn from my mistakes and poor judgement. And to me - that's what it's all about. Charley has already destroyed any ego I had.

Greg, watch this video. It's obviously a much faster car than yours but look at his lines and then compare to yours. You are leaving a lot of track unused on many of the corner exits. You should be getting out to the curb/rumble strip most every corner. You could pick up the throttle much sooner if you used more of the track:gitrdun:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhHKQmHKzdA

The Superlite SLC, which is what Mike is driving in this video, is a pretty amazing machine. He is turning mid 1:40's here in endurance race trim with 480 hp, I believe. Our new Superlite LMP1 should be able to turn sub 1:40's at T-hill. The pucker factor going into turn one is going to be intense when turning that fast of a lap!!!

[Flash68]

Thanks for just crushing my dreams of ever getting near a 06 !! IF you can run that time I never will get close! UGH.... Slicks or no slicks...




Oh stop it. You're right on the cusp with your sh!tty braking 245 car!

You're a heck of a sandbagger Weld. :mock:

I ran out of talent at nearly every event I attended.

It's good to see you have not stopped that trend in life. :gitrdun:

[GregWeld]

Greg, watch this video. It's obviously a much faster car than yours but look at his lines and then compare to yours. You are leaving a lot of track unused on many of the corner exits. You should be getting out to the curb/rumble strip most every corner. You could pick up the throttle much sooner if you used more of the track:gitrdun:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhHKQmHKzdA

The Superlite SLC, which is what Mike is driving in this video, is a pretty amazing machine. He is turning mid 1:40's here in endurance race trim with 480 hp, I believe. Our new Superlite LMP1 should be able to turn sub 1:40's at T-hill. The pucker factor going into turn one is going to be intense when turning that fast of a lap!!!




This is where I got my lines from -- 'cause I can't keep up with Charley to watch his and he doesn't own a video camera... LOL






KeC7tNnzIvM

[patoke]

This is where I got my lines from -- 'cause I can't keep up with Charley to watch his and he doesn't own a video camera... LOL






KeC7tNnzIvM

Dave is an excellent guy to try and copy lines from! You can see how he uses the entire track. That video would have been even better if he did one lap with the engine noise so you could see how early he gets in the throttle and how late he brakes. The spec miata's are fantastic cars to teach you to become a faster, smoother driver because they handle well but have NO power (120hp or less), yet they can still run fast laps.

[GregWeld]

Pat ---


I'm showing this because IN MY MIND -- I still don't understand the "later turn in" concept. I'm going to have to be behind the wheel and try it to truly understand it. I see people doing it but have always thought "their line sucks". Yet you can often watch them pull away... although I manage to usually reel them in a turn or two later... so then think they're strategy was just "lucky" rather than good.


I'm willing to learn and to try... and part of that comes from Ron Sutton getting my cars squared away.

Ordinarily -- I know about cars and how they work. Lord knows I've built enough of them! But I am the first to admit that I know NOTHING about car handling or how to make them better or different etc. Thus my inclusion of Ron into the mix! And there the proof is in the pudding -- from a 2.20 to a 2.08 and less input from me in the process! Made it way more fun and felt way better.

I'm now a firm believer in getting the car dialed in -- which will allow me to adjust my driving - rather than just "getting thru it".

[GregWeld]

Just another quick "story".


I was 3 days into Bondurant Formula Mazda (open wheel) driving school --- and suddenly there's a CORVETTE in front of me! Odd -- okay -- even odder when I realize the guy is driving over every apex and he has one arm out the window pointing down to the apex when we go over them!

A couple laps of that (and I'm driving my ass off to keep up with the stupid one armed Corvette driver!) and he pulls off ---- and another lap and he's asking me to "come in".

I get "schooled" in "HITTING THE APEXS".... because it appeared that I was just getting near them --- often being a foot wide.... and me thinking that I'd hit them... NO!!! I need to hit them! And a foot wide was unacceptable... and shown on the white board that the foot miss here might have me miss the exit by a foot and I'd be off track. Okay --- from that point on I HIT every apex! It did help the room on the exit.

I know I'm not carrying enough speed when I have lots of room on exit -- and when I watch the video --- I've left entire towns between me and the exit. That's a "BALLS" issue.... apparently mine are quite small.

As Ron dials in the grip and braking on the old girl --- I will try to find a bit more manhood. And a better line should be the result.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I'm now a firm believer in getting the car dialed in -- which will allow me to adjust my driving - rather than just "getting thru it".

:thumbsup:

[patoke]

Just another quick "story".


I was 3 days into Bondurant Formula Mazda (open wheel) driving school --- and suddenly there's a CORVETTE in front of me! Odd -- okay -- even odder when I realize the guy is driving over every apex and he has one arm out the window pointing down to the apex when we go over them!

A couple laps of that (and I'm driving my ass off to keep up with the stupid one armed Corvette driver!) and he pulls off ---- and another lap and he's asking me to "come in".

I get "schooled" in "HITTING THE APEXS".... because it appeared that I was just getting near them --- often being a foot wide.... and me thinking that I'd hit them... NO!!! I need to hit them! And a foot wide was unacceptable... and shown on the white board that the foot miss here might have me miss the exit by a foot and I'd be off track. Okay --- from that point on I HIT every apex! It did help the room on the exit.

I know I'm not carrying enough speed when I have lots of room on exit -- and when I watch the video --- I've left entire towns between me and the exit. That's a "BALLS" issue.... apparently mine are quite small.

As Ron dials in the grip and braking on the old girl --- I will try to find a bit more manhood. And a better line should be the result.

More grip and better brakes directly correlate to bigger balls!!! I'm not kidding either. I am sure you feel much more confident driving the Lotus versus the Mustang because of the fact that is has more grip and much better brakes. Being so light helps a bunch as well.

You have some good lap times and you are only using 50 -75% of the track on exit in some turns!! Think about how fast your times will be with more grip, better brakes, and when you use the whole track. :trophy-1302:

[GregWeld]

More grip and better brakes directly correlate to bigger balls!!! I'm not kidding either. I am sure you feel much more confident driving the Lotus versus the Mustang because of the fact that is has more grip and much better brakes. Being so light helps a bunch as well.

You have some good lap times and you are only using 50 -75% of the track on exit in some turns!! Think about how fast your times will be with more grip, better brakes, and when you use the whole track. :trophy-1302:





I'm scared already!



LOL

[intocarss]

Here's a video about Willow
fLCpHnA54cQ

[Flash68]

Here's a video about Willow
fLCpHnA54cQ

Your point being? :poke:

[intocarss]

Your point being? :poke: Somewhat same theory in both vids about cornering

[Flash68]

Somewhat same theory in both vids about cornering

Hi Jerdawg. :D

Jack's Porsche would be more comparable to the Lotus IMO as far as momentum vs brute power-to-weight like the Mustang has.

That is one cool machine.

[GregWeld]

You guys are scaring me now....




Willows is fast! WOW!



I think I might move back down to indoor go karts.....

[Flash68]

You guys are scaring me know....




Willows is fast! WOW!



I think I might move back down to indoor go karts.....

That's BIG Willow... you can always downgrade to Streets of Willow right next to it. Still a very fun track.

[intocarss]

Hi Jerdawg. :D

Jack's Porsche would be more comparable to the Lotus IMO as far as momentum vs brute power-to-weight like the Mustang has.

That is one cool machine. HI DG

If you listen to what he (Jack) is saying during the video, he says he is giving the driving line he teaches for DE and time trial. He says he likes to thinks it's the best line for most cars around this track.

[Sieg]

What you need to set the 1:35.882 qualifying lap record at T-Hill:

http://stohr.com/DavidLocke--800.jpg

The cars are built in Portland, OR of all places.
http://stohr.com/dsr.html

[intocarss]

^^ So when you getting one Sieggy??

[GregWeld]

^^ So when you getting one Sieggy??




As soon as he can put headlights on it and get a license plate and call it "pro touring".....


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Sieg]

Those cars are tiny as in less than 800 lbs. Don't know that I'd want one for a primary track car but I sure wouldn't turn down a drive! We were looking at one patoke mentioned in the pit that's driven by a 67 year old lady and I'd say the driver's sight line is 12" lower than the Lotus.

[GregWeld]

I spent an hour watching YouTube videos of a DSR race at Laguna Seca... and another of DSR's at Road America. What I was watching was THE LINES.



VQaS9BFGVdM






This guy running at Road America (the Nationals) had to do an engine swap so had to start DEAD LAST - and he finished FIRST....






nWFFccIJckM






Call me a candy ass (but never CheeseBall!) --- but the speeds are just too high for me to find enjoyable. These guys are friggin' flying!!


I'm old and used up - I want to have time to look around -- or have a momentary lapse of attention. There's not room for that at those speeds.

[Track Junky]

I think the key here Greg is to stay in your comfort zone. At least thats what I try and do. Obviously the guys in the vids have a hell of a lot of wheel time.

[Sieg]

Your "home" track getting handled by a Stohr:

fQWAIKrp9Ao

[GregWeld]

^^^^^^^^ Talk about not using all of the track!! WOW - this guy never gets near an apex cone and never gets near the exit edge... I watch his line and think (not knowing what I'm talking about) he's leaving a lot on the table.

[Damn True]

I spent an hour watching YouTube videos of a DSR race at Laguna Seca... and another of DSR's at Road America. What I was watching was THE LINES.


Call me a candy ass (but never CheeseBall!) --- but the speeds are just too high for me to find enjoyable. These guys are friggin' flying!!


I'm old and used up - I want to have time to look around -- or have a momentary lapse of attention. There's not room for that at those speeds.

A lot of downforce allows cars like that to do things and go places that dumpster bodied cars like ours cannot. They do have limits of course and when exceeded things can go horribly wrong much quicker than our cars but they operate in a realm of video-game pace and physics. We don't.

[patoke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFpXGoJ3BiI

Here is a video of some FAST laps at Laguna. If it wasn't for the DB limit I could see you hanging with him in your yellow mustang Greg!! At least on pit road!! :D

Seriously though, I agree with you that it is important to stay within you comfort level on track as it is more fun that way and it can get stressful in the cockpit when you push past that comfort zone. It is okay to work on certain parts of the track and therefore push a little harder each lap but over driving the whole track is usually a good way to go home on the back of the wrecker!!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I think the key here Greg is to stay in your comfort zone. At least thats what I try and do. Obviously the guys in the vids have a hell of a lot of wheel time.

Plus alot of tire and aero to make them stick. Faster cars = faster lines.

[Sieg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFpXGoJ3BiI

Here is a video of some FAST laps at Laguna. If it wasn't for the DB limit I could see you hanging with him in your yellow mustang Greg!! At least on pit road!! :D

Piece of cake........he only turned 1:09 on the first real hot lap and was lifting like a sissy in T9. :lol:

[GregWeld]

I think the key here Greg is to stay in your comfort zone. At least thats what I try and do. Obviously the guys in the vids have a hell of a lot of wheel time.




Trying to slow me down until you catch up??? LOL

[Track Junky]

Trying to slow me down until you catch up??? LOL

Sure....If putting it that way makes you feel better :lol:

[Sieg]

Life begins at the end of your comfort zone.........

[intocarss]

Life begins at the end of your comfort zone.........

That's Sieg material rt there!!

[patoke]

Here are two good videos to watch to compare a good line and a GW line (I.e not using the whole track :D ) in the same car. There is a six second difference in lap times. Also, it should be a good reality check for those who say, we are slow because we drive big old steel bodies cars versus those "modern cars". They ran a 1:54 in a 1969 camaro. We ran a 1:55 in a 700+hp horsepower 2006 z06. They have slicks on this camaro I believe, but regardless it's fast!! Dave Brown is a wheel man for sure but here's proof old cars can go fast too!!!

Therefore, its time to step up the game a little for all of us

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=46Du0OtEK44

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=email&v=yT7AADEXgGE

[Track Junky]

I know both Dave and Carl. I will see them on the 24th at T-Hill and be running with them in the NASA Time Trial group. They run the unlimited class (TTU). I'll be running TT1. Carl Chicca owns the car but Dave Brown drives it also. Car is running a fiberglass front clip and doors, Hoosier R6's, and about 620 to the rear wheels. Stock front subframe with Global West arms and a Lateral Dynamics 3 link in the rear. Add Dave Brown to that equation and yes......that equals fast!!

[Flash68]

I know both Dave and Carl. I will see them on the 24th at T-Hill and be running with them in the NASA Time Trial group. They run the unlimited class (TTU). I'll be running TT1. Carl Chicca owns the car but Dave Brown drives it also. Car is running a fiberglass front clip and doors, Hoosier R6's, and about 620 to the rear wheels. Stock front subframe with Global West arms and a Lateral Dynamics 3 link in the rear. Add Dave Brown to that equation and yes......that equals fast!!

Karl & Dave are nice guys and very welcoming and public friendly in their pro-team type pits.

For the record, the previous 387 cubic inch 23 degree dry dump SBC was never near 620 to the wheels when Dave put down the TT track record. It was closer to 620 to the crank.

The current carbed 415 cubic inch LS motor is something just over 600 hp as well.

[Track Junky]

Thanks Dave. Never asked but went by the dyno sheet on Lifes Good Racing website. Also was going by how hard Dave was pulling away form me in the straight coming out of 15 at T-Hill last year.

[GregWeld]

Thanks Dave. Never asked but went by the dyno sheet on Lifes Good Racing website. Also was going by how hard Dave was pulling away form me in the straight coming out of 15 at T-Hill last year.




I'm old and can probably physically RUN away from a car on jack stands...


Just sayin'.... <grin>

[Flash68]

I'm old and can probably physically RUN away from a car on jack stands...


Just sayin'.... <grin>

Don't think we won't make you prove that.

[Vegas69]

Thanks Dave. Never asked but went by the dyno sheet on Lifes Good Racing website. Also was going by how hard Dave was pulling away form me in the straight coming out of 15 at T-Hill last year.

He probably didn't have his engine built by Darryl, and his other brother Darryl.

[GregWeld]

Here are two good videos to watch to compare a good line and a GW line (I.e not using the whole track :D ) in the same car. There is a six second difference in lap times. Also, it should be a good reality check for those who say, we are slow because we drive big old steel bodies cars versus those "modern cars". They ran a 1:54 in a 1969 camaro. We ran a 1:55 in a 700+hp horsepower 2006 z06. They have slicks on this camaro I believe, but regardless it's fast!! Dave Brown is a wheel man for sure but here's proof old cars can go fast too!!!

Therefore, its time to step up the game a little for all of us

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=46Du0OtEK44

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=email&v=yT7AADEXgGE




So here's what I really see from watching the 1:54...


He's way left and riding the inside line in turn 2

He's way right and riding the line all the way around in turn 3

He's running the by-pass -- good for 2 or 3 seconds faster than the 16 turn Cyclone we run.

He's riding the right hand line in turn 5...

He doesn't late brake - late apex turn 6... rather - he starts that turn early and jumps on throttle mid corner while rolling straight to the far side at exit

Ditto this same early turn in at T9 which to me is an attempt to straighten out this turn to hit the exit almost straight as he crests it.

It also appears an early turn in at T10.


So "EARLY" to me is that he's not late braking and making a big ass turn... rather he's attempting to just roll thru the turns making 'em rounder where he's very fast getting back into the throttle.


I'm trying to LEARN from this line so help me here if I've got it all wrong!

[glassman]

I saw that with t9 too, his right tires are half way off the asphalt...effin close.

When i watched that, the one thing i could think of was the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, which may differ from what we've been taught, hence knowing what the machine and its operator are capable of.

I'm hooked.

[GregWeld]

For those that haven't run Thunderhill but want to.... here's a turn by turn 2:03 lap in a "spec Mustang".





YHhkZ-K0_k0

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Great lines pedal references for most of the cars here.

[rustomatic]

Hey Glassman,

I've got a pic with that NASCAR thing behind me, too...:superhack:

I saw that with t9 too, his right tires are half way off the asphalt...effin close.

When i watched that, the one thing i could think of was the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, which may differ from what we've been taught, hence knowing what the machine and its operator are capable of.

I'm hooked.

[glassman]

Hey Glassman,

I've got a pic with that NASCAR thing behind me, too...:superhack:

It was one of Gregs friends son-in-law's driving it and he did a pretty good job wheeling it around the track. I bought that pic from gotbluemilk.com since it was my "virgin" voyage i got two pics from the weekend. Next is the cage.

[rustomatic]

It's a great pic, Glassman--I'd put that one on a wall, for sure. I just got my CD from gotbluemilk.com yesterday--lots of great pics (and showcasing of my dents). My wife took the one I just posted (entering the pits), which was her clearest . . . and you're in it. Go figure...

It was one of Gregs friends son-in-law's driving it and he did a pretty good job wheeling it around the track. I bought that pic from gotbluemilk.com since it was my "virgin" voyage i got two pics from the weekend. Next is the cage.

[Sieg]

For those that haven't run Thunderhill but want to.... here's a turn by turn 2:03 lap in a "spec Mustang".

Impressive........until he went to the left of the apex marker in T12.


http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-m895SqM/1/XL/i-m895SqM-XL.jpg

[GregWeld]

Someone told me I should USE ALL THE TRACK!! So the one time I did...and I get flak for it... LOL

[Sieg]

Someone told me I should USE ALL THE TRACK!! So the one time I did...and I get flak for it... LOL

Flak - No
Credit - Yes

1) Right of the cone shortens the distance.
2) Improves drive on to the back straight.
3) The surface is smoother there so obviously it's the fast line. :D



How you got there is another discussion. :lol:

[GregWeld]

Flak - No
Credit - Yes

1) Right of the cone shortens the distance.
2) Improves drive on to the back straight.
3) The surface is smoother there so obviously it's the fast line. :D



How you got there is another discussion. :lol:




It was Sutton's fault, I swear!

[Ron Sutton]

It was Sutton's fault, I swear!

I plead the fifth. I mean I drank a fifth. Nevermind. :happy23:





.

[GregWeld]

I plead the fifth. I mean I drank a fifth. Nevermind. :happy23:





.




That's what I like to see! One guy lying, and the other one swearing to it!

[Track Junky]

Flak - No
Credit - Yes

1) Right of the cone shortens the distance.
2) Improves drive on to the back straight.
3) The surface is smoother there so obviously it's the fast line. :D:

Definitely not smoother.......quite bumpy regardless how it may look in the pic....but definitely pics up your times.

[Sieg]

Definitely not smoother.......quite bumpy regardless how it may look in the pic....but definitely pics up your times.
Obviously you're not going fast enough.......:D

[Track Junky]

Obviously you're not going fast enough.......:D

Actually its more obvious that you went around the cone. :sieg:

[fleetus macmullitz]

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/wnyjazz/1%20Superleggera%2055%20Chevy/imagejpg1_zps2c8831b8.jpg (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/wnyjazz/media/1%20Superleggera%2055%20Chevy/imagejpg1_zps2c8831b8.jpg.html)

[Sieg]

Actually its more obvious that you went around the cone. :sieg:

Old Auto-X habits are hard to break. :D

[fleetus macmullitz]

Actually its more obvious that you went around the cone. :sieg:

Going around cones is just one technique...

:tiptoe:


:D

[intocarss]

:relax:

[GregWeld]

Bill Howell has always called me "coney"....


Oh yeah --- I've chased a few of 'em.



RE: Pic of me on "wrong" side of exit marking cone



I'm a long time skier.... My #1 rule is "don't fall down".... I find that I never get hurt if I don't fall down.... with that in mind -- I have been known to make what I refer to as a "Series of linked recoveries".

My driving style has evolved to include this same kind of thinking.... "whatever it takes" -- comes to mind. Meaning -- whatever it takes to not have Charley chewing my ass....

[carbuff]

Guys,

I was talking to my Porsche-racing boss today about this event, and he asked me which configuration of the track you drove. Apparently there is an optional turn, which I think he said has an elevation drop to it. He's run 2:05's there, but through that turn which I think he said slows the lap times down a bit...

Just curious for comparison.

[GregWeld]

Guys,

I was talking to my Porsche-racing boss today about this event, and he asked me which configuration of the track you drove. Apparently there is an optional turn, which I think he said has an elevation drop to it. He's run 2:05's there, but through that turn which I think he said slows the lap times down a bit...

Just curious for comparison.



Bryan ---


"WE" run the 16 turn config -- 2.866 mile -- with "the cyclone" which is T5/T5A -- which is the elevation he's referring to.


The other track config is called "the by-pass" -- where you by-pass the cyclone....


I've heard various times (additional time) added when ruining the cyclone vs the by-pass.... anywhere from 2 to 3 seconds.

My "best time" a couple weeks ago of 2.08 is running the cyclone...

[Flash68]

Guys,

I was talking to my Porsche-racing boss today about this event, and he asked me which configuration of the track you drove. Apparently there is an optional turn, which I think he said has an elevation drop to it. He's run 2:05's there, but through that turn which I think he said slows the lap times down a bit...

Just curious for comparison.

What P-Car does he run?

[carbuff]

The other track config is called "the by-pass" -- where you by-pass the cyclone....


Yep, that's what he called it. I couldn't recall since I haven't been there.

He was impressed with the times I was mentioning from this thread, but since I wasn't sure of the course, it was hard to compare. I can brag on you guys more now. ;)

[carbuff]

What P-Car does he run?

He has a green Boxster. He's been running with the PCA for years as I understand it, and he ran a 944 before that. If I recall correctly, he won the PCA Boxster division 2 or 3 years ago before he moved to Austin.

He's building a pretty cool Cayman right now. It's taken way longer than it should have, but it will be pretty slick once it's done. He's acquired some sponsorship for the car as well. While I know nothing about the Porsche world, from what he's telling me, they are doing some pretty slick and unusual work on this car.

[Flash68]

Fast or not, you lost me at Boxster. :lol:

[carbuff]

Ha! Yeah, not a fan either. The Cayman will be much cooler. ;)

[GregWeld]

Fast or not, you lost me at Boxster. :lol:




Aren't they just like Miata's??




I'm sorry...



The Cayman -- now that's a cool car -- and frankly -- I think I'd rather have one of them than the 911....

One of 'em (full race prep) kicked my butt at an event I ran the Audi R8 in. I could not catch that little sucker!

[glassman]

Fast or not, you lost me at Boxster. :lol:

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[glassman]

Aren't they just like Miata's??




I'm sorry...



The Cayman -- now that's a cool car -- and frankly -- I think I'd rather have one of them than the 911....

One of 'em (full race prep) kicked my butt at an event I ran the Audi R8 in. I could not catch that little sucker!

Greg, could you ever get that R8 to power slide through a turn? or was there just too much traction? I'd love to try that car our (but i'm still a huge Pcar fan)(and yes i saw your tires after you ran it one/two years back)

[GregWeld]

Greg, could you ever get that R8 to power slide through a turn? or was there just too much traction? I'd love to try that car our (but i'm still a huge Pcar fan)(and yes i saw your tires after you ran it one/two years back)



Yes you could get it to oversteer - but you really had to toss it and then stab the juice.... then with the all wheel drive -- you just punched it and it would pull straight out of a corner. Amazing handling - but BORING as all get out to drive. Everything worked too well. I got it to understeer once -- then you just slammed the gas down hard and dialed in more turn... and the front end pulled right out of it. Just stupid easy to drive.

Car would have been fun to gut it out = cage it - take all the smog crap off - make it all loud.... but for that kind of money I can have 4 cars like I have... so why bother.

[Flash68]

Aren't they just like Miata's??




I'm sorry...



The Cayman -- now that's a cool car -- and frankly -- I think I'd rather have one of them than the 911....

One of 'em (full race prep) kicked my butt at an event I ran the Audi R8 in. I could not catch that little sucker!

As Bad Ron says, GTFO. No way you would choose a GT3/GT3RS over a Cayman.

Agreed the Cayman is an improvement over the Boxster.

[GregWeld]

As Bad Ron says, GTFO. No way you would choose a GT3/GT3RS over a Cayman.

Agreed the Cayman is an improvement over the Boxster.



I was trying to be nice!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

As Bad Ron says, GTFO. No way you would choose a GT3/GT3RS over a Cayman.

Agreed the Cayman is an improvement over the Boxster.

its just a boxster hard top. Them GT's are bad ass

[Ron Sutton]

Greg ... we need a new thread on "Sonoma Aug 2-3". :)

[GregWeld]

If you want to watch a guy haul some ass on Thunderhill -- and especially T6 thru T9 --- watch this guy.

There's a bunch of dead video while he sits in the pits and some more while under yellow caution -- so just skip ahead a few minutes... Patch this video into your 63" big screen -- crank the sound up and watch some driving... Yippppeeeee





ql_MsOjcCOU

[Damn True]

its just a boxster hard top. Them GT's are bad ass

A Cayman-S is plenty bad-a$$ for most folks.

A driver friend of mine told me once that if you can be fast in a 911 you can be fast in anything.