Tig 102

[Sieg]

You know this is like GOLFING.... a golfer can hit a ball with a chunk of wood 'cause he's got the stroke.


The rest of us... not so much! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:bitchslap: Golf is EASY...........TIG is f'ing DIFFICULT!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

That is a "fine" 3.5" wheel......Harbor Freight fine. :D

I've found that if I'm wearing my TIG gloves I can hold light pressure on the tungsten with one hand and spin it with the other..........can't do it smoothly with bare hands.

Regarding both ends........To quote one of my past employee's frequent statement "now why didn't I think of that?" :bang:

the way that I F*** em up, they never fit back in the collet. LOL

I just grind all of them and have spares within reach. Be sure to wear a mask with that stuff Scott, tungsten dust is very bad for you.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

You know this is like GOLFING.... a golfer can hit a ball with a chunk of wood 'cause he's got the stroke.


The rest of us... not so much! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Greg, what causes the coloration? I noticed when I played with my gas flow (decrease with lense) I started seeing color change not only with Stainless but on chromoly too. Is it from gas cooling? Lack of perhaps?

[stephen wilson]

IIRC, color change relates to the material temperature when it loses shielding gas. I know 4130 turns purple when a bit too hot. You can watch the color "bloom" when shielding gas post-flow ends.

[GregWeld]

Greg, what causes the coloration? I noticed when I played with my gas flow (decrease with lense) I started seeing color change not only with Stainless but on chromoly too. Is it from gas cooling? Lack of perhaps?



Sorry Vince I didn't see your post --- weird --- sometimes Lat G doesn't send an email with a post in a thread I'm following....



So when you say it changes color --- it depends on what color it's changing to. So the best way to answer is for you to have a reference to go to which shows various bad and good welds -- aluminum - chrome moly - and stainless steel.... so just scroll down and see and compare.



http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/common-TIG-GTAW-welding-problems-visual-guide-graphic

[Sieg]

.... so just scroll down and see and compare.

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/common-TIG-GTAW-welding-problems-visual-guide-graphic

Hmmm.......all of those look familiar except the proper ones........:sieg:

:lol:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Sorry Vince I didn't see your post --- weird --- sometimes Lat G doesn't send an email with a post in a thread I'm following....



So when you say it changes color --- it depends on what color it's changing to. So the best way to answer is for you to have a reference to go to which shows various bad and good welds -- aluminum - chrome moly - and stainless steel.... so just scroll down and see and compare.



http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/common-TIG-GTAW-welding-problems-visual-guide-graphic picture from the miller site

No problem, I know your a busy man.

I guess its normal.
my chromoly and stainless welds look similar.... rainbow-ish

[GregWeld]

Hmmm.......all of those look familiar except the proper ones........:sieg:

:lol:




I hate that when it happens -- and sadly for me --- it happens A LOT!!!

OMG..... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA






picture from the miller site

No problem, I know your a busy man.

I guess its normal.
my chromoly and stainless welds look similar.... rainbow-ish





Yeah Vince -- I'm just swamped with work..... I think it took me 3 days to load the refer in the rig to go to Thunderhill this weekend (funny how "work" swells to fill the time allotted to it!).... oh yeah --- then I had to go run a few hundred rounds thru the new Wilson before the trip -- gotta make sure she's ready to run if she's needed.... Oh and then I had to order t shirts from Jody so I'm ready for SEMA....

[Vince@Meanstreets]

lol, like i said, your a busy guy.....only a hundred? going easy on it are you? :captain1:

[Sieg]

lol, like i said, your a busy guy.....only a hundred? going easy on it are you? :captain1:
100.........It's a recoil thing.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

100.........It's a recoil thing.

im just sayin, in your parts thats like 2 mags. LOL

[Sieg]

im just sayin, in your parts thats like 2 mags. LOL
LOL - Before kids it used to be 3.7 grains of Bullseye, Winchester large primers, Starline brass, Winchester 230 grain ball, OAL 1.261" for 1,500 plus rounds a month, 4-5 months a year. My RCBS press is good 50 rounds in 10 minutes. :unibrow:

[RussMurco]

I've been watching this thread trying to learn and every time I think I'm getting it y'all throw something new in the mix! :knock:

I think I'll just jump in and try it out, now I just have to figure out how to turn the machine on!:headscratch:

http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o713/Ravenworks-PorterMuffler/IMG_1343_zps23d8c68b.jpg (http://s1339.photobucket.com/user/Ravenworks-PorterMuffler/media/IMG_1343_zps23d8c68b.jpg.html)

[Sieg]

Nice beginner machine ya got there Russ. :D

Experience is the best teacher........provided you're paying attention. :sieg:

[RussMurco]

Not my machine, this thing is way above my pay-grade!
It's the one at my company, my boss is kind enough to let me use it and patient enough to teach me.
He's a great guy, let me drive his Bentley convertible yesterday!

[Sieg]

Not my machine, this thing is way above my pay-grade!
It's the one at my company, my boss is kind enough to let me use it and patient enough to teach me.
He's a great guy, let me drive his Bentley convertible yesterday!

The AWD Torque Monster :unibrow:

He's only letting you play with that machine cause he knows how good it can shock you............don't ask me how I know. :sieg:

[RussMurco]

Ya know, his sense of humor would let that happen and he'd probably take pictures!!!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

The AWD Torque Monster :unibrow:

He's only letting you play with that machine cause he knows how good it can shock you............don't ask me how I know. :sieg:

Yep, always double check your tungsten.

[mitch_04]

So, I've read this entire thread and still haven't gotten better at TIG welding, what a crock.


Oh, you are supposed to practice as well? Hmm...


Anyways, I've just started TIGing with my main effort being sheet metal for body work. I'm trying to cut down on the weld finishing and warping. Any tips along those lines?

[GregWeld]

Anyways, I've just started TIGing with my main effort being sheet metal for body work. I'm trying to cut down on the weld finishing and warping. Any tips along those lines?




Yes --- Practice a lot and learn how to get better with a hammer and a dolly...

[Vince@Meanstreets]

So, I've read this entire thread and still haven't gotten better at TIG welding, what a crock.


Oh, you are supposed to practice as well? Hmm...


Anyways, I've just started TIGing with my main effort being sheet metal for body work. I'm trying to cut down on the weld finishing and warping. Any tips along those lines?
It's all in the prep and procedure. You will get better with time.
I have my prep together that I can put a patch in with no filler and very little finish work. This is after years of practice.

Get a few older scrap sections of the same thickness you will be doing and play with it. You'll find that it's all in material placement, fitment and heat control. Also try different temps and tungsten point sizes.

I run a low temp and a super sharp point on my tungsten.

picture is a patch on my old nova project. gap was .010 in, 4 tacs and no filler.

[mitch_04]

I have been using 1/16 tungsten and filler, but it just doesn't seem quite right. I think the rods too big, tried some twisted up MIG wire (all we have is .030 wire) which was better.

I would like to try the .040 and .030 tungsten and filler, seems like it would be easier to control the heat. I have been practicing on pieces of sheet metal (16 & 20) and, while this sounds "cocky" it's not, it went very well and almost seemed easy. Didn't burn through, decent pattern, worked the way I hoped it would.

Fast forward to trying it on the car. A '78 Trans Am I'm restoring for a customer. Tried it on a quarter skin and couldn't lay a bead to save my life. Grabbed the mig and decided I would practice on my own project until I got better. Unfortunately, it will be a while before I have time to do more "real" practice on my pickup. I'm very good with MIGing on sheet metal, but I still get those little "dents" from warping. Was doing short tacks and tapping in between, letting it cool... just hoping the TIG will help out a big.

I'm trying to explain what I am trying to learn a little better, but the pain meds I'm on from my surgery are making it difficult. I'd appreciate everyones techniques and specs on their sheet metal welding. Tungsten, filler, and gas cup size, amperage ratings, and pulse settings (if you have them).

[Ketzer]

I've been at this off and on for several months and just not making headway. Too much heat or too slow speed or just poor technique. I went over and got some hands on lessons on a buddies machine (similar to mine just his is older) and right out of the gate I was getting nice welds, good penetration, etc. I have been afraid to blame my machine because I acknowledge being a beginner. Turns out my machine may have an issue.


Jeff-

[GregWeld]

I've been at this off and on for several months and just not making headway. Too much heat or too slow speed or just poor technique. I went over and got some hands on lessons on a buddies machine (similar to mine just his is older) and right out of the gate I was getting nice welds, good penetration, etc. I have been afraid to blame my machine because I acknowledge being a beginner. Turns out my machine may have an issue.


Jeff-



That's interesting. Wouldn't it pee you off if all this time you thought you stunk and it's the machine!


There's some good info videos about the correlation between travel speed and heat. Most "newbs" automatically think they should turn the heat down and slow their travel speed…. and that actually puts more heat into the piece.

The "masters" (which is NOT ME) can crank the heat up and pick their travel speed up and have a far smaller HAZ (heat affected zone). I've done this - and it works - but you have to have mastered the torch and fill pretty well in order to pick up the speed.

[GregWeld]

So since some of you guys are trying to weld some pretty thin sheet metal -- here's something you might FORGET to do in this process….

#1 - your fit up will make or break the whole job. Poor fit = poor welding


#2 - a GOOD welder can deal with sloppier fit - but beginners -- trust the rest of us - spend your time on making your parts FIT CLOSELY.


#3 - Tack your work in the proper order. Yes - there is an order. If you tack the piece in the middle - your corners will pull out of shape…. put too much heat on the corners and your middle will bow etc. So of course there's about a hundred an fifty eight gazillion ways to do things - but I like to tack up the corners first. Then the middle - then in between the corner and the middle.

NOW HERE'S THE PART YOU WILL FORGET - when in the heat of battle (is that a pun?)….. USE YOUR FRIGGIN HAMMER and tap those edges back in to place!

What you'll see is that while the square might still be a square - and still "fit" the square hole (if that's the shape of your patch or whatever) - it will have moved IN AND OUT of that hole so there's still a gap - but the gap has opened off the "flat" -- so you need to massage that back so the pieces are matched up on the same plane. If not - you'll burn thru the high edge.

We're talking MINUTE -- that's MI NUTE -- here -- but remember that if you're working with sheet metal - this is thin stuff to start with. Sheet steel is measured in 1000th of an inch. 18 gauge is .050 -- 19 gauge is .0438 ---- 20 gauge is .0375

If you're "gap" has moved off plane --- 20/1000th --- you're not only going to have a difference in the off plane metal to deal with in your finish work - your gap there is just that much more to try to weld as well. It's these very small things that we "forget" when we're new and we're so focused on just running the torch and all that.

[Sieg]

^^^ Keep in mind that is from an Internationally Licensed Pyrotechnician that was trained to blow stuff up. :D

Well said GW.

Ketzer.........there was a time I was willing to bet big money my machine was defective. Honestly I was hoping it was defective, but.........:sieg:

[Hotrod1]

I also thought that my machine was an issue also. It was not, it was me. Practice and more practice made the difference. Now I am not bad anymore.

[GregWeld]

^^^ Keep in mind that is from an Internationally Licensed Pyrotechnician that was trained to blow stuff up.




Retired!


Although I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night…. (NOT!)


Actually I had dinner with my old pyro buddies last night at one of their sons wedding… I can tell you that's quite the "group". We laugh about the times we stapled our appendages to various parts of things we're supposed to be trying to build… or the time we blew the bottom out of a 12" mortar and it punched a hole in the deck of the barge… or when we'd get pissed about hauling these 300 pound mortars in the heat of a New York City summer -- and just roll the GD things overboard… and watching the face of the owners - knowing they wouldn't dare say a word. :D




Signed yours truly….



\/ \/ \/ \/ Tiny 6" mortars….



http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/4th%20of%20July/fireworkscatchanddrop.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/4th%20of%20July/fireworkscatchanddrop.jpg.html)

[Ketzer]

Even more confusing, I've been sizing my filler and tungsten to the work and using the amperage suggestions right off the Miller app. My buddy was using a tungsten a couple sizes over and the amps were double what I've been practicing with. He uses a lot of pedal feathering. I was sure I would make a giant mess when I tried but it went smoove like buttah.

I haven't had time to go back to my machine and give it another shot since the lesson. He mentioned something about high freq settings and that mine might be off. We'll see.


Jeff-

[GregWeld]

Jeff --- there's so much to learn about TIG vs MIG… so many settings and what affects what.

Most guys can hardly master a MIG welder with amperage and wire feed - and add to that 'gas'. The issue really becomes how often someone actually uses this stuff. Home "builders" can go for months without laying an inch of weld. Then go out and expect to have their welds look pro grade.

Now you toss in the complications of TIG - the hand coordination - all the settings - the sizes of cups and tungsten - the gas settings - AC vs DC - frequency - and on and on…. and it becomes an issue like the difference between adjusting a carb and tuning EFI with a laptop!


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Sieg]

Jeff, what helped me as much as anything is creating controlled test. Simple well know stuff that had no variables. Metal - Gauge - Tungsten - Filler - Gas Flow - Amperage. Fit up, prep, and clean meticulously so there's no doubt.

Then I use the baseline's Miller provides as reference.

Run a 1" bead at your baseline, then one inch beads at high and low extremes to the baseline and observe my habits during the tests and the results. Knowing the extremes has helped me understand right vs wrong and get the feel for normal or an acceptable average.

[mitch_04]

Any recommendations on tungsten and filler size for sheet metal, 20 gauge specifically?

[Sieg]

Any recommendations on tungsten and filler size for sheet metal, 20 gauge specifically?

1/16" and 1/16" should work.

Miller app only goes down to 1/16" material

For butt joints they say 50-80 amps for stainless +10% for mild steel.

Argon at 11 cfh or 20 psi.

Speed 12" per minute.

Prep and fit-up!!!

[GregWeld]

Any recommendations on tungsten and filler size for sheet metal, 20 gauge specifically?



Download the miller welder app --- it has all that info at your fingertips.

[GregWeld]

Watch this on tight fit ups!!!





yT108iL-vMw




and watch this video too…..





vWNZioJ_FOc#t=107

[mitch_04]

Download the miller welder app --- it has all that info at your fingertips.

I actually got rid of my smart phone and went back to a "dumb" phone! I use the Miller calculator on their website, but, like Sieg said, it only goes down to 1/16 so I wasn't sure. I had watched that first video before, I watched a ton of Jody's videos when I first bought the TIG. That's where I learned of the online tubing coper, awesome "tool".

I'll give it some more practice when I get a chance to work on my own pickup again. Until then I'll stick to the larger steel or a MIG.

[stephen wilson]

In general the filler should match the material thickness, so for 20 Ga I would use .045 , or even .035 if you have a tight fit that doesn't require much filler.

[Sieg]

Created a project to get some heavy gauge practice on. The heavy stuff was good for me and my aging eyes as it's like looking at the puddle under a microscope. :D

Basically I welded a piece of seamless tube with a 12mm wall and 34mm ID to a 13.5MM base plate. The tube was beveled at 45* giving it an approx. 7mm face.

Tube fuse tacked to base.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-MRJ9WHs/0/XL/i-MRJ9WHs-XL.jpg

I alternated fusing opposed 20mm sections.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CjWGc4d/0/XL/i-CjWGc4d-XL.jpg

Fused 360*
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-p9kCCdp/0/XL/i-p9kCCdp-XL.jpg

Then I started experimenting laying cover passed by dabbing 1/16 70S rod and 3/32 70S, then lay-wire method with 3/32. I lost control of the heat due to puddle chasing mainly related to poor positioning/posture techniques.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fhNjDdq/0/XL/i-fhNjDdq-XL.jpg

Final pass using 3/32 lay-wire and weave pattern with the torch.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hZ4RGW3/0/XL/i-hZ4RGW3-XL.jpg

End result
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HJ2K99q/0/XL/i-HJ2K99q-XL.jpg

I plan on stress testing it in the near future.

The larger material was good practice for me as most of my practice has been at a much smaller scale. The visual scale made connecting the dots much easier. A water-cooled torch would have been nice to protect from the material heat, surprisingly the torch never got uncomfortable with my non-insulated TIG gloves. A TIG Finger for heat protection would have been nice when propping on the tube though. Ended up laying my insulated MIG glove over it. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

So first things first --- it looks real good -- and projects like this teach a guy A LOT --- such as you mentioned -- positioning and clamping and heat and on and on…



#2 -- when we say CLEAN is the paramount thing to TIG welding (MIG you can get away with a lot) ---- I would have cleaned the mill scale off down to clean bare shiny metal…


Did I mention it looks real good?

[Sieg]

Thank you!

It was clean metal in the weld circle. Didn't have any contamination flares at all which really surprised me.........other than sticking the tungsten in the puddle 3 times.....which is a win for me. :D

[GregWeld]

Thank you!

It was clean metal in the weld circle. Didn't have any contamination flares at all which really surprised me.........other than sticking the tungsten in the puddle 3 times.....which is a win for me. :D



That's why they sell so many tungstens --- and sharpeners!


HAHAHAHAHA

[Vince@Meanstreets]

nice work sieg.

do you have a magnifier on your tig helmet?

I agree on the cleaning. Go beyond your weld border. As you weld you'll see the junk get puled into the puddle edge. The way I see it your gonna end up cleaning the whole thing at some point. Its easier to do without something welded to it.

[ccracin]

Very nice Sieg! After seeing what you guys are doing, I'm not posting any more of my welds. :wacko:

[ironworks]

Created a project to get some heavy gauge practice on. The heavy stuff was good for me and my aging eyes as it's like looking at the puddle under a microscope. :D

Final pass using 3/32 lay-wire and weave pattern with the torch.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hZ4RGW3/0/XL/i-hZ4RGW3-XL.jpg



From your picture it looks like your tungsten could be sharper. Plus that will concentrate you heat more. Your probably finding the thicker material easier to see because your using more amperage and lighting up your welding shield better. On thinner material you might go to a lighter lense. The problem with the thicker material is it welded totally different. You can run a lot more heat and not work on the the most important part of welding. Controlling your heat. I hire industrial welders that are certified for thick metal projects but cannot control there heat to save their life or their job.

When you do a welding cert job you might do the tubing test we did for a big Stainless job we do monthly for a local company. We welded .25 wall material tubing. The cut the small joint maybe 4 inch long and cut it it to 6-8 strips length wise so you can see the penetration from the middle. There can be penetration on both sides that has a huge void in the middle. We learned that on some Xray-ed parts we did for the same company.

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/IMG_20131126_071624.jpg (http://s616.photobucket.com/user/ironworksspeed/media/IMG_20131126_071624.jpg.html)

These are some parts we are welding up today. They are huge and require multiple passes for proper penetration.

[Sieg]

Thanks for the input Rodger. Greg pointed out the company you're welding those for when we were cruising through Bakertuckey. :D

That tungsten was violated just as I was finishing the weld. Typically I take it to a point with a little longer bevel than it appears in the photo. I did experiment with putting a slight flat on the point during the session, prefer pointed.

I completely agree with the heat control and it's much more involved than just setting your amperage. I'm going to start practicing/experimenting with pulsed mode/settings on thinner materials. I think that will compliment my lack of talent nicely.

GtkBdsPlO2Y

[INTMD8]

End result
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HJ2K99q/0/XL/i-HJ2K99q-XL.jpg


Looks nice!

[ironworks]

Thanks for the input Rodger. Greg pointed out the company you're welding those for when we were cruising through Bakertuckey. :D

That tungsten was violated just as I was finishing the weld. Typically I take it to a point with a little longer bevel than it appears in the photo. I did experiment with putting a slight flat on the point during the session, prefer pointed.

I completely agree with the heat control and it's much more involved than just setting your amperage. I'm going to start practicing/experimenting with pulsed mode/settings on thinner materials. I think that will compliment my lack of talent nicely.



You should sand the tungsten before you take the pic. It makes you look like a pro. HAHAHA


Most of the time the pulse welding on thinner material is better done with the foot pedal. The pulse does not give you a real sense of heat control as more then likely you sheet metal fit on custom panels is not precise around the hole panel and since your margin of error is much tighter on sheetmetal. The pulse works great on thicker stuff that a robot can do as it is a machine fit constant gap. The foot pedal lets you control it much better for each individual weld bead.

For thinner stuff just cut some straight strips and weld them back together with out buckling the material from Heat. Then if you can weld it up and keep it flat and you turn it over and it is fully penetrated your golden.

[Sieg]

You should sand the tungsten before you take the pic. It makes you look like a pro. HAHAHA

I'll grind a stubby and keep it handy for photo ops in the future. :D

[67zo6Camaro]

Ok, I have a confession. I'm a lurker in this thread!

So, here is some TIG love for my fellow welders. Cheers.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Fab53%20Tow%20Hooks/IMG_6357_zps42b857fd.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Fab53%20Tow%20Hooks/IMG_6347_zpsb45f8409.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Fab53%20Tow%20Hooks/IMG_6339_zps942b1e8b.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Fab53%20Tow%20Hooks/IMG_6345_zps86098ec6.jpg

Mild steel sanded and then cleaned with a 3M pad. Red electrode, Argon at 12 to 15, Tip ground down to a point with clean 100 grit sanding wheel, and some welding rod I found laying around the shop. 1/4" plate with Amp setting at 100, Foot controlled heat between beads.

And by the way.... Scott you are getting pretty good. Take note everyone, practice, practice, practice.

[GregWeld]

And there ya go!!



Nicely done buddy!

[Sieg]

A couple of my latest practice projects.......

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5fnXxVr/0/X2/i-5fnXxVr-X2.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tGSh9bL/0/X2/i-tGSh9bL-X2.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-G9Jx2kq/0/XL/i-G9Jx2kq-XL.jpg

The good and the really ugly on the right due to contamination from trying to retain the rustic nature of the metal.....I ground another 1/8" clearance before doing the left bead.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FFknN4B/0/XL/i-FFknN4B-XL.jpg


The fun one.......

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-cWgfPfv/0/X2/i-cWgfPfv-X2.jpg

Insert 5" of cannon fuse, 1 tablespoon fg black powder, one piece of damp paper towel, then pack the remainder with damp beach sand and stand back. :D

[GregWeld]

I'd actually buy the photo frame if I saw it in an art gallery.


Just one question…. how do you get a photo and some glass in there??



DOH!

[Sieg]

I'd actually buy the photo frame if I saw it in an art gallery.


Just one question…. how do you get a photo and some glass in there??



DOH!
Thanks.

You're Soooo Old School! :D

I use small neodymium magnets for these frames or a 4x6 picture will simply rest in place. Frame is sloped at 15* and it weighs about 7-8 lbs.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Nice work Sieg.

[Panteracer]

Looks like it will take more than a 100 ft of welding to
even get close to welding like you guys.. I did a bunch of arc and gas
welding years back.. been thinking about getting a tig
and start to learn again.. just too many other projects
going on

Is that why they call him Greg "Weld":)

Panteracer Norcal Bob

[Panteracer]

Sieg,
The frames would be great for awards etc
Are you marketing them?? you can charge Greg
$850 each since he spends everyone elses money

I might be interested in a few

Panteracer Norcal Bob

[Sieg]

Sieg,
The frames would be great for awards etc
Are you marketing them?? you can charge Greg
$850 each since he spends everyone elses money

I might be interested in a few

Panteracer Norcal Bob

Not marketing them, considering it on a very small scale. I'm going to be making a couple more designs this week. I agree, as specialized or personalized trophies they'd be pretty cool to receive.........IMO.

Let me know what you're thinking.

[BBC71Nova]

What tig machine are you guys using? Anybody with a Diversion 180?

[Sieg]

I'm using an HTP Invertig 221H. 200 amp inverter, air cooled.

[GregWeld]

Looks like it will take more than a 100 ft of welding to
even get close to welding like you guys.. I did a bunch of arc and gas
welding years back.. been thinking about getting a tig
and start to learn again.. just too many other projects
going on

Is that why they call him Greg "Weld":)

Panteracer Norcal Bob




My friends have names for me - none of which actually use the name my Mother gave me…


Ever hear of WELD Racing? Good - 'cause that's not me!



:lol: :lol:

[GregWeld]

What tig machine are you guys using? Anybody with a Diversion 180?




I run a Miller Dynasty 200DX


Remember that we're welding fairly thin materials usually -- UNTIL you get cranking on some aluminum - and that's when you need so power… so just something to think about when looking for these type machines.

[Sieg]

Nearing micro........at least with my eyes!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RMMTTkV/0/XL/i-RMMTTkV-XL.jpg

[RussMurco]

Ever hear of WELD Racing? Good - 'cause that's not me!


Ya know, I though you were THAT Greg Weld for a while. Then I remembered he passed away some years ago!

[GregWeld]

Nearing micro........at least with my eyes!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RMMTTkV/0/XL/i-RMMTTkV-XL.jpg



Nicely done Siegymundo!







Ya know, I though you were THAT Greg Weld for a while. Then I remembered he passed away some years ago!





That's a very common "ASSumption" --- particularly in automotive venues etc. While ordinarily one might sometimes wish they were said famous person but in this case… not so much. Given the fact that he was bankrupt and is dead -- and I'm neither of those. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[RussMurco]

Nearing micro........at least with my eyes!


Amazing precision there!

Remember that we're welding fairly thin materials usually -- UNTIL you get cranking on some aluminum - and that's when you need some power… so just something to think about when looking for these type machines.

I know the monster I have available at work can TIG most anything but for a home shop how much power do you suggest for someone who would eventually need the power to weld aluminum??

[GregWeld]

I know the monster I have available at work can TIG most anything but for a home shop how much power do you suggest for someone who would eventually need the power to weld aluminum??




1/4" aluminum takes 200 amps…


Remember too - that what you pay EXTRA for this power - the couple times a home builder may need something thicker (bracket etc) he could sure as hell take it somewhere and have it welded far cheaper.

Just always trying to give guys stuff to ponder before they commit is all. I know everyone has different pocketbooks etc. Or maybe their panel wouldn't take another 30amp 220V circuit or whatever.

I like to buy a bit more than the bottom - because as we all know - it's not just THIS project -- once you have "capability" -- there's other stuff you can do and your friends love to find out you have a 'welder' and so forth.

[ironworks]

1/4" aluminum takes 200 amps…


Remember too - that what you pay EXTRA for this power - the couple times a home builder may need something thicker (bracket etc) he could sure as hell take it somewhere and have it welded far cheaper.

Just always trying to give guys stuff to ponder before they commit is all. I know everyone has different pocketbooks etc. Or maybe their panel wouldn't take another 30amp 220V circuit or whatever.

I like to buy a bit more than the bottom - because as we all know - it's not just THIS project -- once you have "capability" -- there's other stuff you can do and your friends love to find out you have a 'welder' and so forth.

But you also gain duty cycle and when say boxing frame rails that is an important consideration.

[GregWeld]

But you also gain duty cycle and when say boxing frame rails that is an important consideration.



Ordinarily I would agree - duty cycle is important…. but for a home welder that basically sucks - has to constantly reposition - has to check his work every other nanosecond (think SIEG here)… IDK if that duty cycle would be an issue but glad you mentioned it.

[ccm399]

What tig machine are you guys using? Anybody with a Diversion 180?

I have the Diversion 165 with a foot pedal that I really like. It however does not always like me... I used to run a Syncrowave 250 so I tend to push the 165 a "little" hard sometimes...

Most of the time I weld thinner stuff but I have worked it pretty hard it when repairing an aluminum bell housing and some other thicker aluminum work.

Some day I will step up to a Dynasty 200 or something like that. But not just yet. I have other things I need to get before stepping up to a larger welder. So far the 165 has done all I have asked.

Hope this helps,

Chris

[Hotrod1]

First tig - syncrowave 180sd. Good machine. Stepped up to Dynasty 200. Nice unit with a lot more features that I will ever need.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Nearing micro........at least with my eyes!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RMMTTkV/0/XL/i-RMMTTkV-XL.jpg

Nice work sieg, make sure you ventilate where you weld. Some of the gasses and fumes that come off those colored and aged metals can hurt you.
Maybe a neutral air system should be next on your project list.

How many hours a day are you welding now?

[Sieg]

Nice work sieg, make sure you ventilate where you weld. Some of the gasses and fumes that come off those colored and aged metals can hurt you.
Maybe a neutral air system should be next on your project list.

How many hours a day are you welding now?

Vince,

About an hour of actual weld time max.......preps another story as you well know.

The way my bench is set up the TIG unit sits at the same height as the welding table and the fan exhausts forward right across the work area. There's also a heater at ceiling height 4' away the blows over the top of the space. The garage is 780 s.f. so it takes a while to fume it.

[Sieg]

Progress and completion shots.......it's for my Mother Inlaw who's a country girl thus the horseshoe theme.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Wz7nWS2/0/XL/i-Wz7nWS2-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-H6r9vLF/0/XL/i-H6r9vLF-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-kVxS6hv/0/XL/i-kVxS6hv-XL.jpg

Every project I learn a new technique, trick, how to make a mistake, and fix it or pay the price of fabing a replacement piece. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Don't use a fan to ventilate your welding area ---- it blows the shielding gas off the weld. Remember there's not all that much flowing there.

Typical welding "ventilating" is done with "extractors" that are overhead of the weld... so that the gas has shielded the weld puddle and then leaves the area.


WE -- meaning us just doing stuff around home - don't breathe enough bad stuff to be an issue. Having said that - there ARE fumes from stuff we could/do weld that are harmful in very small doses. Stuff such as galvanized material (we don't tend to use this in our projects) - and CHLORINATED anything!

Manganese fumes are very harmful --- it's a known fact that in a study of 20,000 welders - 10% (professional welders) developed PARKINSON'S... and the suspected agent is the Manganese that is found in all steels and steel welding rod (filler) etc.

Now -- this is people welding 8 hours a day - 5 days a week - for 20 years... So WE are not really going to be affected by that... but it's still (fumes of any kind) something we should be considering regardless as far as I'm concerned.

[RussMurco]

Considering that I already have a MIG welder at home and wanting to learn TIG to take my hobby/craft to the next level I'm jumping all in and I signed-up for classes starting next month! I went with a full welding course that covers MIG, TIG, metal theory, and full fabrication. I'm getting excited!

[GregWeld]

Considering that I already have a MIG welder at home and wanting to learn TIG to take my hobby/craft to the next level I'm jumping all in and I signed-up for classes starting next month! I went with a full welding course that covers MIG, TIG, metal theory, and full fabrication. I'm getting excited!



Best plan EVER. Most local colleges offer some type of classes on this - night classes etc. I took these back in the 70's even when I was still in high school - at night out at Mount Hood Community College.


There's MUCH to know about "welding" -- and some basic knowledge about the metals you're working with is something that will be helpful in many ways. Most guys don't understand what annealing is and how that affects what they're going to do with the piece at hand. So good for you!

[GregWeld]

BTW --- Just to be sure on the whole 'fume' issue.... STICK WELDING is far more harmful in general because of the flux used etc ---- than is our little bit of TIG welding. You watch a guy stick welding and there's just all manor of smoke and stuff surrounding the guy.

[Sieg]

Don't use a fan to ventilate your welding area ---- it blows the shielding gas off the weld. Remember there's not all that much flowing there.
FWIW - The little fan typically blows across the front of the table between my chest and the torch head, the only gas flow issue I've noticed is with my dog.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-s6JNcgj/0/L/i-s6JNcgj-L.jpg

If I buy an extractor it will look something like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/AR15forme/Extractor%20Springs/BCM3.jpg

[GregWeld]

A real man would have welded that overhead - up side down - and backwards.

[Sieg]

Considering that I already have a MIG welder at home and wanting to learn TIG to take my hobby/craft to the next level I'm jumping all in and I signed-up for classes starting next month! I went with a full welding course that covers MIG, TIG, metal theory, and full fabrication. I'm getting excited!

Good for you! :thumbsup:

I've been taking Tungsten Grinding 101...........finally had to clearance the tungsten collet in the torch as it was worn from removing and reinserting so many times it wouldn't clamp..........that's real-world hands-on edumakation right there!

[Sieg]

A real man would have welded that overhead - up side down - and backwards.

Careful........that thing is quite portable. :unibrow:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Progress and completion shots.......it's for my Mother Inlaw who's a country girl thus the horseshoe theme.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Wz7nWS2/0/XL/i-Wz7nWS2-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-H6r9vLF/0/XL/i-H6r9vLF-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-kVxS6hv/0/XL/i-kVxS6hv-XL.jpg

Every project I learn a new technique, trick, how to make a mistake, and fix it or pay the price of fabing a replacement piece. :thumbsup:

whoa, I can MAKE everyone xmas gifts instead of standing in line all day and spending butt loads of cash that I don't have. That's a great idea Sieg. Work is looking great!

[Sieg]

whoa, I can MAKE everyone xmas gifts instead of standing in line all day and spending butt loads of cash that I don't have. That's a great idea Sieg. Work is looking great!

Vince - To me it brings back the true spirit of giving. You need to creatively reflect on the individuals desires and lifestyle throughout the entire project. There's more meaning in it for the recipient and myself. Not to mention the shelf-life of the gift vs. a typical department store/mall/amazon purchase. It's not necessarily easier......especially when you add the LOFT factor. (Lack of F'g Talent) :D :thumbsup:

............off to the steel supplier to pick up some more scrap to recycle. And a special gift for a Great Dane that has two favorite digging spots in the planting beds around the house. :secret:

[GregWeld]

............off to the steel supplier to pick up some more scrap to recycle. And a special gift for a Great Dane that has two favorite digging spots in the planting beds around the house. :secret:




Repurpose is more PC



LOL

[Sieg]

Repurpose is more PC



LOL

Shouldn't you be helping your home Village with their tunnel boring machine? :action-smiley-027:

[Sieg]

Another design completed........

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RPzkgMx/0/XL/i-RPzkgMx-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8TrsHJR/0/XL/i-8TrsHJR-XL.jpg

[GregWeld]

Oh yeah - you're going to NEED that saw.

[Sieg]

Oh yeah - you're going to NEED that saw.

Good.......cuz I sure WANT one! :lol:

[65 347]

Good job Sieg! You are motivating me to get off my a$$ and got out to the garage. Thanks

Mike

[GregWeld]

Sieg - What are you cutting your miters on now? They look to be pretty crisp...


My new cold cut saw is the shizzle on angles - easy to set up and cuts like butter - but you don't need one of those for this kind of work - you NEED that FEMI! HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Another design completed........

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RPzkgMx/0/XL/i-RPzkgMx-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8TrsHJR/0/XL/i-8TrsHJR-XL.jpg

That's very nice Sieg. You need to open up a side business selling rustic picture frames. Don't worry we'll pull you back before you turn in to that old guy with the white beard who wears a leather weldors apron 24/7 making wind chimes and lawn art in his drive way.

[GregWeld]

Before you know it the Chinese will be knocking him off and sending containers of 'em to WalMart!!




EEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA

[Sieg]

Sieg - What are you cutting your miters on now? They look to be pretty crisp...


My new cold cut saw is the shizzle on angles - easy to set up and cuts like butter - but you don't need one of those for this kind of work - you NEED that FEMI! HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH

I'm using a Jet 68" horizontal dry cut. It's decent but slower to set up for miters and much slower cutting than I witnessed at SEMA. Accuracy on the vertical cuts could be better. I hand fit the miters using an 8" disc sanders.

[Sieg]

That's very nice Sieg. You need to open up a side business selling rustic picture frames. Don't worry we'll pull you back before you turn in to that old guy with the white beard who wears a leather weldors apron 24/7 making wind chimes and lawn art in his drive way.
Thanks, don't think I'll sport the blacksmith look....gunsmith has potential!

Before you know it the Chinese will be knocking him off and sending containers of 'em to WalMart!!




EEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA
Thanks to Chinese quality, the door is left ajar for this micro niche. Besides these are heavy enough to sink their container ships. :D

[Revved]

I had a TIG welding epiphany this week and wanted to share to help anyone else self-learning.

I was over at a buddy's 4x4 shop the week before and he does heavy fab, full rock crawling rigs, axle housings, etc.. and got on the subject of TIG. He commented how when he drives long distances to keep himself awake he practices pulsing his foot and feeding his rod. I didn't think much of it until a few days later when it hit me... Never in any of the threads, or videos, or talking with people had I caught on to the subject of pulsing the TIG pedal. I had always treated it like a throttle rolling on and off but never pulsing it per se.

So I've been playing around with this over the last week on aluminum and yesterday on some 1/4" steel gusseting a torque arm and what a difference it makes in puddle control and heat control!!:idea: :idea: I would suffer on a regular basis from the filler being blown away or balling up and contaminating by the torch while trying to feed into the puddle but now with the pulsing it just wicks the molten rod right into the puddle. Back off on the throttle, slide forward, feed and roll in again...repeat as necessary!!

I showed it to my 4x4 fab guy and the only thing he could fault me for was being a little light on my filler rod and going a little slow in places but for me it was a huge leap in consistency!!!

I hope this helps someone!

[Sieg]

Went shopping today at one of my favorite stores.........

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XWmS56T/1/L/i-XWmS56T-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Kt3VXKF/1/L/i-Kt3VXKF-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-twtdqSx/1/L/i-twtdqSx-L.jpg

My new welding tabletop being cut.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-JVhczfw/1/L/i-JVhczfw-L.jpg

Semi-success with the TIG on 11 ga. 2x4 salvage material. Used 1/16" tungsten and filler, 17 cfh w/ gas lens, 110 amps
full pedal @ startup, then 85-90% estimated speed 12-15" minute.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-mJR2xDN/1/L/i-mJR2xDN-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7frcfTj/1/L/i-7frcfTj-L.jpg

[Vince@Meanstreets]

remember don't weld your table top on, always bolt it down. And put a hole in it so you can move it with your cherry picker.

Your care package is almost ready. Taking advanage of the "if it fits... it ships"

LOL

[Sieg]

remember don't weld your table top on, always bolt it down. And put a hole in it so you can move it with your cherry picker.

Your care package is almost ready. Taking advantage of the "if it fits... it ships"

LOL

Thanks Vince :thumbsup:

Top is 3/8" x 30 x 42 (134 lbs) so I'll be able to drill and tap it for fixturing which will be a new luxury. The plan is bolt it down in some manner.

[GregWeld]

See those lights in the metal supply store? I'm removing all of those from my new shop and they're running all new banks of "high bay fluorescents"... 2.5 times the light and 1/4 the wattage.


Your welds look good buddy!


I love the smell of metal!

[MoparCar]

What! No high bay LEDs? Even less power and 50000 hour life!
J/K. I'm an electrical project manager and we install LEDs more and more for production facilities.

Wes

[GregWeld]

What! No high bay LEDs? Even less power and 50000 hour life!
J/K. I'm an electrical project manager and we install LEDs more and more for production facilities.

Wes

Wes! Dang it!


PM me if there's something I should consider please. I'm pretty sure the electrical guy said fluorescents but he might have said LED's.... The ceilings are about 20' off the floor... and I told him "I've never had TOO MUCH light". He assured me he was in my camp and thought the same way.


We did talk T5's in the tool room area -- and he said no way -- he was going to run T8's I think he said.

[Sieg]

Hey Wes, is your middle name happen to be Charles?

:lol:

[Sieg]

While a few of you were shoveling coal in the Text Train I actually made forward progress on my midget table. Base is .188 2x4, uprights and top frame are .083 2x2. 9' of 1/16" filler made for decent practice. Took my time and played with pulling angles with the welds to get a feel vs. just blocking and clamping everything solid.

I have no idea how many laps I made around this stupid thing to obtain the proper welding positions. At one point yesterday when welding mounting tabs on the top which was flat on the floor I was running the foot pedal with right elbow while holding the torch and feeding rod with the left hand........goofy sport this TIG Welding is.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-k5tMLTr/1/X2/i-k5tMLTr-X2.jpg

[Vince@Meanstreets]

While a few of you were shoveling coal in the Text Train I actually made forward progress on my midget table. Base is .188 2x4, uprights and top frame are .083 2x2. 9' of 1/16" filler made for decent practice. Took my time and played with pulling angles with the welds to get a feel vs. just blocking and clamping everything solid.

I have no idea how many laps I made around this stupid thing to obtain the proper welding positions. At one point yesterday when welding mounting tabs on the top which was flat on the floor I was running the foot pedal with right elbow while holding the torch and feeding rod with the left hand........goofy sport this TIG Welding is.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-k5tMLTr/1/X2/i-k5tMLTr-X2.jpg

LOL...I kow how you feel....I use to duct tape the pedal to my foot when I get into the funky angle cages.

I always tell people when you are first learning how to tig, start off by mastering the finger wheel. The foot op stuff is almost natural.

[GregWeld]

It's better and cheaper than Therapy!


TIG = Therapy In Garage



Only Sieg would TIG where most would MIG.... LOL



I've told other people when they've asked about TIG -- If you have MIG and TIG -- you'll end up choosing to TIG and the MIG becomes a tack welder or only used on something you don't care about. LOL but it's true.

[Sieg]

This project has been the best practice I've had to date. Besides the additional material prep and cleaning my speed has improved and so have the beads.....go figure. :sieg:

Today I was installing .5" x .5" shelving stringers that required fabbing a fitment jig and due to the bow in the 2x4 lower frame tubing I had gaps at the top of the .5" tubing that required using a lay-wire technique with 3/32" filler.

It's also forced numerous ambidextrous torch and foot control situations.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-w38sFGp/0/X2/i-w38sFGp-X2.jpg

Yes, I could have run and gunned the thing with the MIG and it would have been solid............but I plan on having this thing the rest of my life and the TIG welds look so much better that to me they're worth the extra effort......and this type of practice is invaluable.

If I could afford the welding table and fixturing that shares my last name this stuff would be easy :D: http://www.stronghandtools.com/siegmundtables/index.php

[GregWeld]

I totally agree - but I'm going to give you crap regardless.



Personally - I'd give my MIG machine away... it's just way more fun and looks way mo' betta with TIG. Plus - it requires SKILLZ.....

[Sieg]

Practice, practice, practice.........

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-zDQRw2M/1/XL/i-zDQRw2M-XL.jpg

Why do I want a larger welding table? :D

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TVGVNkJ/0/XL/i-TVGVNkJ-XL.jpg

[DRJDVM's '69]

Well it looks like I'm finally going to pull the trigger on getting a TIG..

I've been debating it for a good year now.....95% of the metal work on my car is done, so in reality I really don't need one at this point...yes GW, the car has made a lot of progress, I just haven't posted about it and no, its not done yet......but the funds are available right now, so its the best time if I'm ever going to get one

Can't justify the $$ or size to go above the Miller Diversion 180....not for the needs I have and the space in my garage...

Of course, I haven't even ordered it yet, and I'm already thinking of things to "tweak" on it.....gas lenses, flexible torch, etc..any suggestions on the best small things to add that make a big difference? the 180 comes with the Weldcraft WP17 torch...

Best all around tungsten to start with....filler rod to start with etc....

I'm sure I will add different tungsten and filler as time goes by, but I don't want to load up on tons of supplies right off the bat...

My first project is going to be building a cart for the TIG and my plasma...that should help manage a little more space too...good practice also...

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Hi Ned,

You should be fine with the 180 but I would recommend more if you are going to get into alot of Aluminum work.

The Millers are so compact and makes it a great choice for home builders.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I buy alot from these guys. Fast free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MILLER-DIVERSION-180-907627-/390731685672?pt=BI_Welders&hash=item5af96c5f28

[DRJDVM's '69]

I looked at the Syncrowave too, but the additional $700 and the size of the machine is too much of a downside for a machine that won't get used a ton...

If I had a bigger space I would get the bigger machine...

I do plan on some aluminum but mostly thin stuff... Brackets, tabs, pipe, nothing very thick or structural etc

I'm looking at stuff on cyberweld.com....

[96z28ss]

95% of the metal work on my car is done, so in reality I really don't need one at this point...yes GW, the car has made a lot of progress, I just haven't posted about it and no, its not done yet........

We are going to need updated progress pics we aren't taking no for an answer.

[GregWeld]

Ned --- Good for you buddy!



You'll be hooked on TIG just like Sieg! It takes a lot of effort to be any good but it's so much fun!



Make sure you know the specs of the machine you settle on... and mostly - as Vince pointed out -- it's the ALUMINUM that can eat amps.. So just be sure you're set on your gauges.


Now -- Start watching Welding Tips and Tricks dot com.... There's a million of them on YouTube - and he's very helpful and gets right to it. Some other sites spend way too much time just babbling.

[DRJDVM's '69]

Oh I've watched a ton of those videos.. I'm sure I'll watch more once I get a machine...

I will try and get around to posting pix... It's mostly boring stuff... Brake lines. Fuel lines.... Figuring out where I'm going to run my electrical...rear seatbelt harness........I'm trying to make every bracket, drill every hole, and do everything possible before paint... In theory, post paint assembly will go quick... In my dreams...

The car is back in black epoxy since all the big metal stuff was done

[DRJDVM's '69]

The specs on the 180 go to 3/16... The next Syncrowave go to 1/4.... Wow.... Lot more fine control settings... Machine is almost 2x the size and almost $800 more..... Cons outweigh the pro for me

[Sieg]

Ned,

You might take a look at the HTP Invertig 221 specs. I debated the same issues as you and thought this was a good fit with some room to grow. Italian made machine and after-sale service and support had been above average IMO. The weak point is the manual which could have lost a little detail in the conversion from Italian to English but Miller's phone app makes up for that.

http://www.usaweld.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=597

I also have HTP's MIG 200 and Microcut 600 plasma cutter, no problems with any of them after 2+ years.

Would I rather have Miller's equipment that's just a step above the HTP in specs.......yes, especially if I had a shop, but not for the dollar difference and my newbie hobbyist usage venture.

[GregWeld]

You can't affect (change) the waveform with the Diversion TIG machines like I can with my Dynasty.... but it's also half the cost --- and you're not doing the kind of welding where this kind of control would be necessary...


Most hot rod welding just isn't all that complicated.

[BBC71Nova]

For you guys looking at the Diversion 180, today (Fat Tuesday) ZoroTools is offering 20% off and they carry that machine. Their normal price is a good bit higher but after the 20% you'll save some vs other online retailers.

Also, be sure and take advantage of the Miller Build with Blue (http://www.millerwelds.com/landing/build-with-blue/) rebate program. The way that works is you spend $150 on Miller accessories at the time you purchase the welder. So if you do the Zoro Tools deal you actually get 20% off of those as well so be sure and spend more than 150 so the after discount amount is > $150. Then submit the rebate. Miller will send you check for 10% of TOTAL purchase.

Zoro was running a similar 30% off deal around the holidays and the way it all worked out you could get the Div 180 and misc other accessories totaling over $200 out the door for about $1495 after you get the rebate from Miller. That was really good deal but this 20% active now isn't too shabby either.

BTW they appear to run these deals every few months so signing up for their email is worthwhile.

[DRJDVM's '69]

Checked the prices.... With the higher price, plus the tax I have to pay for that vendor, even with the 20% it's higher than the other websites

[rwhite692]

Ned the best prices on Miller are almost always from Indiana Oxygen Supply. I believe that they are Miller's single largest distributor.

They sell on Ebay here:

http://stores.ebay.com/Welding-Supplies-from-IOC

They will provide everything you need to submit your info to Miller for the Build With Blue Promotion. The promotion was also going on last year when I took advantage of it as well. Free shipping and no tax, etc.

[BBC71Nova]

Just received notification that Zoro is gonna do a 30% off deal tomorrow for very limited timeframe. You can't touch a Diversion 180 for what you can get one at through Zoro with this discount. They don't have a lot of equipment but fortunately they have the 180.

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239830

[Revved]

Jumping tracks for a second here...

I read a cheat in a metal shaping book last week for gas backing a TIG weld and wondered if anyone had tried this before.

Back the weld with fiberglass tape and then cover it with metal AC foil ducting tape. The fiberglass supposedly creates a pocket for the shielding gas to puddle behind the weld with the ducting tape holding it in the fiberglass.

[rwhite692]

Just received notification that Zoro is gonna do a 30% off deal tomorrow for very limited timeframe. You can't touch a Diversion 180 for what you can get one at through Zoro with this discount. They don't have a lot of equipment but fortunately they have the 180.

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239830



Did you buy one? I highly doubt that Miller welders are going to be available at 30% off as part of that promotion...The margins on them are not high to begin with, 30% off would likely be below any distributor's cost.

[BBC71Nova]

Yes, I actually picked one up during a previous 30% off sale. So I've already received the Miller rebate, etc. If not I wouldn't have posted and risked hosing someone over.

Like you, I was really suspect with all the MAP policies and such on so many things these days. Worth noting that they aren't really 30% off relative to other retailers since Zoro prices are higher by a good bit to start with. I did some research on the company, etc and lots of good reviews so I decided to give it a shot. Worked out well. It really is a surprisingly good deal. Worth following the "hot deals" section over on GarageJournal for things like this. Every little savings is just more car parts money :-).

FWIW, another friend of mine ordered one yesterday during the sale and it is scheduled to be delivered today. Great shipping as well.

[rwhite692]

Sounds good, John. Zoro is "low risk" since it really is Grainger. They created zoro to focus on tools, since not a lot of people look to Grainger for tools. Which machine did you wind up with?

[BBC71Nova]

I went with the Diversion 180. The most affordable way to get into a tig machine of blue or red variety :-). Gotta get some quality time with it to develop more skill. So far it is great if for no other reason than it doesn't throw sparks everywhere.

[Sieg]

I went with the Diversion 180. The most affordable way to get into a tig machine of blue or red variety :-). Gotta get some quality time with it to develop more skill. So far it is great if for no other reason than it doesn't throw sparks everywhere.

TIG rules......try this with MIG LOL!

For scale, that's a 1" x 1.5" gusset.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FSjpfXg/0/XL/i-FSjpfXg-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ZPJKnZG/0/XL/i-ZPJKnZG-XL.jpg

Glad you picked up a machine, it's challenging but very rewarding once you get a feel for it. :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I like your tool toter. :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I went with the Diversion 180. The most affordable way to get into a tig machine of blue or red variety :-). Gotta get some quality time with it to develop more skill. So far it is great if for no other reason than it doesn't throw sparks everywhere.

its all about time and practice. I still need to run a stack of scrap before I finish weld a production piece.

[GregWeld]

its all about time and practice. I still need to run a stack of scrap before I finish weld a production piece.



A truer (smarter) statement was never made! If you guys think you can run beads like the pros --- and not weld stuff for weeks --- then just pick up the torch and just start dabbin' dimes... WELL.... Good luck with that!

Even if you weld 3 or 4 times a week... you're not going to lay it out like someone that welds 8 hours a day, 50 weeks a year. That's MILES of welding compared to your inches. You WILL forget to turn on the gas... or you will not have the stick out correct... or you won't change your cup size to be able to reach the inside corner... and you WILL stick your tungsten in the puddle... or you won't be able to see because your hood is too dark.

Having said all of that... I personally find it very relaxing... and you can get good enough to stick some stuff together. It frees you up to THINK about how you want to do something - because once you can cut something up - now you have options... cause you can put it back together.


Here's SIEG'S next project --- a light over his table!! LOL


I have some headers that I'm thinking would be really cool - somehow connected and hanging so the flanges (and their 8 total pipe holes) would have lights shinning down or "something".



This "exhaust pipe" light (can't call it a chandelier without pissing off the little woman can we??) is in the Optima "Prime" rig.


Making things like this -- helps build your skills. And is fun.




http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Fun%20Fotos/IMG_5216.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Fun%20Fotos/IMG_5216.jpg.html)





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Fun%20Fotos/IMG_5215.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Fun%20Fotos/IMG_5215.jpg.html)




http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Fun%20Fotos/IMG_5214.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Fun%20Fotos/IMG_5214.jpg.html)

[GregWeld]

This isn't TIG -- or actually -- isn't welding at all.... (well - okay - there's a little) but could be if a guy wants to use the "idea" and make it differently...

A few old parts - used instead of tossed or laying in a box. LOW VOLTAGE lighting is pretty handy - bright - and easy to wire....






http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Shop%20Pix/IMG_1560.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Shop%20Pix/IMG_1560.jpg.html)





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Shop%20Pix/IMG_1561.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Shop%20Pix/IMG_1561.jpg.html)






http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Shop%20Pix/IMG_1567.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Shop%20Pix/IMG_1567.jpg.html)

[RussMurco]

Here's SIEG'S next project --- a light over his table!! LOL

I have some headers that I'm thinking would be really cool - somehow connected and hanging so the flanges (and their 8 total pipe holes) would have lights shinning down or "something".

This "exhaust pipe" light (can't call it a chandelier without pissing off the little woman can we??) is in the Optima "Prime" rig.

Making things like this -- helps build your skills. And is fun.

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Fun%20Fotos/IMG_5216.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Fun%20Fotos/IMG_5216.jpg.html)

Too cool! It looks like the business end of a Saturn V rocket!!!
This kind of stuff, as well as the car, are why I'm taking those classes!!!

[Sieg]

This isn't TIG -- or actually -- isn't welding at all.... (well - okay - there's a little) but could be if a guy wants to use the "idea" and make it differently...

A few old parts - used instead of tossed or laying in a box. LOW VOLTAGE lighting is pretty handy - bright - and easy to wire....
You wouldn't be surprised if I told you I've collected misc. low-voltage lamps from discarded displays over the years for just that purpose..........and the big locomotive piston & rod, and, and, and........:D

[DRJDVM's '69]

Pulled the trigger and ordered a Miller Diverson 180 last night.... Plus some tungsten, gloves, rod etc


I also ordered one of their portable arc stations. I need a decent table and don't have the space to build a "real" welding table, so hopefully the fact that I can fold it down and store it will work out in my garage

Then I ordered up some aluminum sheet to build some stuff.... After I practice ALOT....

So the questions will start flowing soon...

[rickpaw]

Pulled the trigger and ordered a Miller Diverson 180 last night.... Plus some tungsten, gloves, rod etc



Where did you order yours from? I've been thinking about getting a Tig welder.

[96z28ss]

This isn't TIG -- or actually -- isn't welding at all.... (well - okay - there's a little) but could be if a guy wants to use the "idea" and make it differently...

A few old parts - used instead of tossed or laying in a box. LOW VOLTAGE lighting is pretty handy - bright - and easy to wire....


http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Shop%20Pix/IMG_1567.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Shop%20Pix/IMG_1567.jpg.html)

I was going to ask who's garage but then I saw the sign. Nice shop Greg.:lmao:

[DRJDVM's '69]

Bought mine on cyberweld.com... Good reviews and price was good... About the same as some other big online vendors

Really wanted to buy at my local shop but the price difference was just too big, especially with taxes and the other stuff I ordered

[rickpaw]

Bought mine on cyberweld.com... Good reviews and price was good... About the same as some other big online vendors

Really wanted to buy at my local shop but the price difference was just too big, especially with taxes and the other stuff I ordered

Thanks. Same deal here. Local shop has the same price but I have to pay sales tax (and it's a big chunk of $$).

[DRJDVM's '69]

Dammit..got a call from the shipping company yesterday that my shipment from Miller was there...went up to the depot to get the shipment......all jazzed to play around this weekend....

And it was just the ARC station and the clamps!!! Welder wont be here until next week...

Scratch that..... The welder just showed up via Fedex!!!!! Score.....play time in the garage thus weekend :)

[Vince@Meanstreets]

You gonna run out of scrap metal better stock up!! LOL

Oh and remember to ground...TIG will give you a nasty shock if not.

[DRJDVM's '69]

The ARC station I bought from Miller is supposed to include a bolt that you screw into the table top and run to ground...instructions state "independent of the welding leads"..... table legs have small plastic end caps...

So do I need to ground the table with some cable AND the TIG to the table? Kind of a PITA with a portable/foldable table.... most guys tables I see are up on rubber wheels etc, so I don't see the need to run a separate cable from the table to ground....

[GregWeld]

No Ned -- Just use the the ground clamp from the TIG --- the TIG is grounded to your house electrical panel via it's plug.


If I'm welding metal parts on a metal table - I ground the table -- the parts will ground via the contact to the table "most" of the time. I also have a heavy copper strap -- 12"+ long - 2" wide - 5/16" or so thick - and use this sometimes to hold the piece by laying it on the table and onto the work.

[DRJDVM's '69]

I was a little confused with the instructions that came with the table.... they give you a metal "L" bracket to bolt to the table top underside...they call it a "work lead tab", which I was taking to mean the ground lead from the TIG....but then they want you to put a bolt into the table top to "connect the welding table to a good electrical ground (independent of the welding leads"....

So its like they want me to attach the ground lead from the TIG to the table and the table to another ground...

I usually do what you mentioned Greg.... I just put the metal piece on the metal table and connect the ground to the table....

[rwhite692]

I have never been a fan of trying to ground the table. Ground clamp on the workpiece. It is a rare occurrence where getting the ground clamp onto the workpiece is actually a problem.

[GregWeld]

I have never been a fan of trying to ground the table. Ground clamp on the workpiece. It is a rare occurrence where getting the ground clamp onto the workpiece is actually a problem.



Funny Rob -- I'm the exact opposite - I never ground the piece... But like most things everyone has their own style.

[rwhite692]

Indeed GW. I think I got away from even trying it, when doing Al. It almost never works well when doing Al. Now I just always attach to the work no matter what I'm doing.

[Sieg]

Much depends on scope and scale. A lot of the work I do is too small to comfortably attach the lead to.........

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-mkPqcqL/0/L/i-mkPqcqL-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ZfzdLKW/0/L/i-ZfzdLKW-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-LwS3bWq/1/L/i-LwS3bWq-L.jpg

.........so 95% of my projects are grounded to the table.

Very seldom do I have issues, but if there's weld splatter of other debris on the table it can create a arcing hot spot.

[toddshotrods]

I clamp to the part, except for when teaching the basics at the community workshop. On my stuff though, I try to always clamp to the part. When the part is too small, or oddly configured, I use C-shaped vice grips on the part, and clamp the ground to the vice grips.

Even when we clamp to the table for welding instruction sessions, I usually tell them that I clamp to the part, and tell/show them the vise grip tip, then try to show them why I do it. If you get a part that doesn't make good/full contact with the table, it will spot-weld to the table where the ground arcs. I show them the size of that spot and explain that all the current is flowing back to the source through that tiny spot, or the next best thing it finds... :weld:

I've felt the "TIG tingle" before...

[Sieg]

Is anyone using this CK Rotary Amperage Control?

http://www.ckworldwide.com/images/rac.jpg

http://www.ckworldwide.com/amperage_controls.htm

[Vince@Meanstreets]

One of my fabricators had that on his machine. I liked it. Its great cause im ambidextrous and the smaller wheel style is tough to reach in certain positions. I have an idea that i'd like to make happen.

[GregWeld]

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Fun%20Fotos/IMG_5318.jpeg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Fun%20Fotos/IMG_5318.jpeg.html)

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Haaa that's my saying " I'm a better grinder than a weldor so all is good"



LOL

[DRJDVM's '69]

Been playing with the new TIG a lot... Started to build a cart for the welder and my plasma so I can move stuff around easier...plus it's a big practice piece to get some seat time under my belt

My best analogy for how it's going so far.... It's just like playing golf.... One second I lay a nice/decent bead.... Get alittle confidence... And then the next one looks like a pile of bird crap and I want to check the torch into the lake :) some of the welds on the cart look pretty damn good for a beginner... And others look like hell..,

Feeling decent on the butt weld..., still struggling with fillet welds.. Keep blowing through the upper section or getting a decent puddle flowing..,

Sometimes I feel like I'm getting more time grinding tungsten vs actually welding..

[GregWeld]

Been playing with the new TIG a lot... Started to build a cart for the welder and my plasma so I can move stuff around easier...plus it's a big practice piece to get some seat time under my belt

My best analogy for how it's going so far.... It's just like playing golf.... One second I lay a nice/decent bead.... Get alittle confidence... And then the next one looks like a pile of bird crap and I want to check the torch into the lake :) some of the welds on the cart look pretty damn good for a beginner... And others look like hell..,

Feeling decent on the butt weld..., still struggling with fillet welds.. Keep blowing through the upper section or getting a decent puddle flowing..,

Sometimes I feel like I'm getting more time grinding tungsten vs actually welding..



If it was easy --- your buddy RobW could do it.....


Hang in there -- watch some videos -- this is a skill set that needs to be learned and it doesn't come easy or cheap. Once you get the hang of it - you can sell the MIG because it'll just sit in the corner.

[coolwelder62]

Is anybody using a Dynasty 350.And how does it work on .375 alum.

[GregWeld]

Is anybody using a Dynasty 350.And how does it work on .375 alum.



You must think we're all rich or something! To have tools like that!! OMG!!


LOL

[coolwelder62]

You must think we're all rich or something! To have tools like that!! OMG!!


LOLI guess I will be the only lateral-g-er w/a dynasty 350.Greg, call and ask me how I like it.:thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Oh trust me...... I've looked at 'em..... but then I wake up from my dream and realize that 1/4" material is as large as I ever need to go.

Before I bought my DX200 - I went over to a neighbors shop to have a fitting TIG'd up... and he had the 700... and I remember thinking to myself OMG it's like THE TOWER of welding! From that moment on I wanted one. I have no use for it but so what! LOL

[coolwelder62]

I have some .375 alum. and Miller 200DX just won't getter done.

[70 chevelle]

Is anyone using this CK Rotary Amperage Control?

http://www.ckworldwide.com/images/rac.jpg

http://www.ckworldwide.com/amperage_controls.htm

I have it and use it often. It's great when you are not bench welding.

[358Mustang]

I have some .375 alum. and Miller 200DX just won't getter done.

Get some helium and it will ;)

[GregWeld]

Get some helium and it will ;)




200 DX is only capable of .250 aluminum on Argon. And you're right - with Helium you could probably get it done. I got a tank once - talked like Donald Duck for a week.... didn't get much welding done. LOL

[Vince@Meanstreets]

careful greg, too much of that will stunt your growth and make you walk funny.

[358Mustang]

200 DX is only capable of .250 aluminum on Argon. And you're right - with Helium you could probably get it done. I got a tank once - talked like Donald Duck for a week.... didn't get much welding done. LOL

Hah, we do lots of very thick aluminum welding at my work. And we actually use DCEN with straight helium gas... The gas is expensive, but it is an option if you want to weld thicker aluminum on a small machine..

[GregWeld]

careful greg, too much of that will stunt your growth and make you walk funny.




TOO LATE!!!!

[rwhite692]

If it was easy --- your buddy RobW could do it.....
.



Hey GW, not sure what you meant by that, but, I found a shirt for you!

http://hoodratswelding.com/products/shut-up-and-weld-shirt?variant=932985299

[DRJDVM's '69]

Maybe change the "and" to "I'm"...... :)

[Cyclone03]

So Sieg and I were texting back and forth.... regarding TIG welding.
.


First I cut a bunch of 5" long 1" square .50 wall tubing.... deburred it -- cleaned it with NON chlorinated brake cleaner - and scuffed it quickly with a 3" roloc disc.


The rule of thumb is ONE amp per ONE THOUSANDTH material thickness.... and since I'd been telling Sieggy the weld master to cut his amperage I figured I'd stick to that rule - so 50 amps it is....

Well.... I could hardly get a puddle going - and by the time I could get puddle and try to move it along and dab --- #1 my auto darkening helmet kept lighting up! Which blinds you momentarily - and trying to weld at this low amperage was just so SLOW.... and not a good puddle at all! It was like REALLY DUDE! YOU SUCK!!






http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/file-16.jpg















http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/file-11.jpg

I only held a TIG torch 3 days a week for about 9 mo. way back in 1990 so I know less than everybody here. That said ,and I'm sure I'm late to this , the problem with the puddle at 50amps was you where not welding .050" tubing together you are welding TWO EDGES of 1" .050 wall sqaure tubing. The 2 edges butted together are closer to .100 thick each and then have nice heat sinks running away from the weld (2 on each side of the weld) did you try to weld the tubes together end to end?

It's the same as doing a T weld in the middle of a plate, the "leg" acts thinner because the base has more area cooling the bead area.

Just a thought from out on the edge.

Sorry I started reading this thread then realized it was 3 years old .

[GregWeld]

Cyclone ---


I've read your post about 5 times and have yet to comprehend what you're saying. My initial thought was that you're telling someone they should add up the thickness (gauge/dimension) of both pieces you're trying to well and then set your machine accordingly. I.E., a butt weld joint - of two .125" square tubes - should be welded at 250 amps.

Dude! Couldn't be further from correct.... So I don't know what your post is trying to say because I must have missed something there.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Thus the foot pedal... for controlling your amperage. Your eyes are the monitor...

I usually crank the amps up to max for the tungsten then modulate with my foot. Too many numbers in my head as it is. Only time I really pay mind to the amps is when I know im going to be welding for more than an hour at a time then i'll set it so I can full floor the pedal and concentrate on the puddle.

Also I use a fixed #12 lens when I tig. No flash and blind. My eyes are much happier now.

[Sieg]

Number 12 lens! :confused59:

Do you paint your TIG rod white with a red tip? :sieg:

[redss86]

Just now seen this thread, and read the entire thing. Tons of great info, and links. Lots of very nice welding also.

Cyclone ---


I've read your post about 5 times and have yet to comprehend what you're saying. My initial thought was that you're telling someone they should add up the thickness (gauge/dimension) of both pieces you're trying to well and then set your machine accordingly. I.E., a butt weld joint - of two .125" square tubes - should be welded at 250 amps.

Dude! Couldn't be further from correct.... So I don't know what your post is trying to say because I must have missed something there.

I believe what he means; is that when you place two square tubes side by side, the corners are thicker than the flats. Where as, if you but the tubes together end to end, then the thickness would be as listed.

Hang in there -- watch some videos -- this is a skill set that needs to be learned and it doesn't come easy or cheap. Once you get the hang of it - you can sell the MIG because it'll just sit in the corner.
Could not agree more! I have a Miller Syncrowave 250, a Millermatic 200, and a 110v Lincoln mig (don't remember model, it's at my brother's house). 9 times out of 10 I will TIG before I MIG. I know both of my Millers are older, but I bought the TIG over 12 yrs ago, and got a steal on the Millermatic. I will post some pics of some of my welds tomorrow (not on computer now.

[GregWeld]

Number 12 lens! :confused59:

Do you paint your TIG rod white with a red tip? :sieg:



I've had to buy helmets that go down to 8 so I can see.... LOL

[Ketzer]

I've had to buy helmets that go down to 8 so I can see.... LOL

^^ This! ^^

[Solid LT1]

Has anyone been having issues with China sourced tungstens for their TIG? I bought some stuff off Amazon supposed to be 2% Lanthenated but it's fracturing and splitting on AC......my Thoriated stuff (DC) is old Linde stock works like a champ! I'm using a dedicated diamond wheel to sharpen the stuff. Gas system is fine, water cooler is fine. Please tell me brands your using with good quality.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Has anyone been having issues with China sourced tungstens for their TIG? I bought some stuff off Amazon supposed to be 2% Lanthenated but it's fracturing and splitting on AC......my Thoriated stuff (DC) is old Linde stock works like a champ! I'm using a dedicated diamond wheel to sharpen the stuff. Gas system is fine, water cooler is fine. Please tell me brands your using with good quality.

I have found that when you are taking time to create and prep a work piece that trying to save a buck on un known quality consumables cost you alot more money in the long run.

My local place carries CK products and have been very happy with them.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Since im here I want to share an experience I had today while doing some aluminum work. I was welding along, and about 3 mins or so into the bead the filler would start collecting onto the tungsten. Getting sucked up is all I can describe it. Its also strange that this did not happen when I was doing my practice runs. About 30 mins on scrap. Note that this has never happened to me without accidentaly getting the tung in the puddle.

Turned down the gas, adjusting it for more cleaning helped but as soon as things heated up i would start up.

Check out the picture, you can see the blow back spots.

So im going back and forth and I noticed that if I wiped my rod down with
acetone it would stop doing it for a longer period.

While texting I inedvertenly swapped my welding gloves and the problem never came back. Turn out when I was fitting the weld bung for the filler cap lubricant from the o-ring saturated the index finger on my glove. As the rod got hot and my finger got closer to the puddle it would release more contaminants. Bam blow back.

Moral of the story keep your gloves, equip and rod clean when going ball deep. :smiley_smack:

[rpm56]

That is a great reminder Vince. Everything has to be clean with tig

[redss86]

Made some welds on my frame last night. First time welding in about 6 months. Used 1/16 ceriated with 1/16 er70s6, 140 amps max. First to were ok, last two look good to me. Let me hear your thoughts.http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i121/jmarti81/Monte/20150315_215607.jpg (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/jmarti81/media/Monte/20150315_215607.jpg.html)
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i121/jmarti81/Monte/20150315_215629.jpg (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/jmarti81/media/Monte/20150315_215629.jpg.html)
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i121/jmarti81/Monte/20150315_222813.jpg (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/jmarti81/media/Monte/20150315_222813.jpg.html)
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i121/jmarti81/Monte/20150315_222823.jpg (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/jmarti81/media/Monte/20150315_222823.jpg.html)

Here is what I am welding in (the short brace in front of the xmember).
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i121/jmarti81/Monte/20150315_222846.jpg (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/jmarti81/media/Monte/20150315_222846.jpg.html)
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i121/jmarti81/Monte/20140601_134414.jpg (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/jmarti81/media/Monte/20140601_134414.jpg.html)

[GregWeld]

Last two look very good - keep going!


When I haven't welded for a while - I don't go straight to work on the parts I'm making -- I sit down with some scraps and get the beads going for a few minutes... then when it feels right I go to work.

[GregWeld]

Personally I think your choice of 1/16th tungsten is too small for the job you're working on - I'd be using 3/32nd... with the same size filler material. Your HAZ (heat affected zone) is pretty wide - and that's due to slow travel speeds (typical of "newbs"). That's not a disrespectful name btw.

[Revved]

I figured this one out the hard way a couple years back when I was self-teaching. I now keep a set of gloves that I only use for TIG welding.

Tank looks good though!!


Since im here I want to share an experience I had today while doing some aluminum work. I was welding along, and about 3 mins or so into the bead the filler would start collecting onto the tungsten. Getting sucked up is all I can describe it. Its also strange that this did not happen when I was doing my practice runs. About 30 mins on scrap. Note that this has never happened to me without accidentaly getting the tung in the puddle.

Turned down the gas, adjusting it for more cleaning helped but as soon as things heated up i would start up.

Check out the picture, you can see the blow back spots.

So im going back and forth and I noticed that if I wiped my rod down with
acetone it would stop doing it for a longer period.

While texting I inedvertenly swapped my welding gloves and the problem never came back. Turn out when I was fitting the weld bung for the filler cap lubricant from the o-ring saturated the index finger on my glove. As the rod got hot and my finger got closer to the puddle it would release more contaminants. Bam blow back.

Moral of the story keep your gloves, equip and rod clean when going ball deep. :smiley_smack:

[redss86]

Personally I think your choice of 1/16th tungsten is too small for the job you're working on - I'd be using 3/32nd... with the same size filler material. Your HAZ (heat affected zone) is pretty wide - and that's due to slow travel speeds (typical of "newbs"). That's not a disrespectful name btw.

I thought the same thing, but decided to give it a try. That was going off the Miller welding app suggested sizes and settings. I do think I will switch back to 3/32 electrode on the remaining sides. Still gotta figure out how to get into the tight angle to weld it. Any suggestions?

I have been tig welding off and on for about 12 yrs now, but only do it at home on my own stuff and some side odd and ends.

[rixtrix1]

I'm getting ready to weld some 1045 threaded adapters to 1.25od x .120wall 1020 DOM and have seen many say that you should use a lower tensile strength filler material like ER70-S2. In light of the application, I would think that ER70-S6 would be a better choice. I have both in MIG and TIG. These are for some suspension links. Any suggestions from some of you more learned welders out there?

[FaBrycation]

I'm getting ready to weld some 1045 threaded adapters to 1.25od x .120wall 1020 DOM and have seen many say that you should use a lower tensile strength filler material like ER70-S2. In light of the application, I would think that ER70-S6 would be a better choice. I have both in MIG and TIG. These are for some suspension links. Any suggestions from some of you more learned welders out there?


I sure a welding wizard will cut me off at the pass but I have used ER70-s2 in situations like this with no issue. I think it has more to do with prep and proper welding technique.

[572Camaro]

OKAY, Okay, okay.., please pardon my rant..,

1. The only difference between ER70S2 and ER70S6 is alloy. ER70S6 has a bit more Manganese and Silicon, plus a few tramp allows.
2. Regarding these two filler materials, they have almost identical tensile strengths, hence the "70" in the number, which stands for guaranteed "ultimate tensile strength", not "yield strength". What's my point? It's personal preference.., I prefer ER70S2 simply because it provides a better silicon "puddle bounce" when I weld.
3. Use pure argon when TIG welding, 15scfm +15/-0, (depending on application like back purging).
4. Please use ONLY American made tungsten and when TIG welding steel.., please use 2% thoriated tungsten which is marked by a red marking on the end.
Grind your point to a sharp tip and do so axially with your grinder, not radially, so as to avoid "break" points if you stick your tungsten.
5. Prep is EVERYTHING. Period.
6. Prep is best by sanding or scotchbrite. If you sandblast first, you must either then sand, scotchbrite, or fail.
7. Practice first on scrap. When you think you are ready, practice one more time..,
8. Control your current. Most people worry about "heat affected zone" which is the blued discoloration around the weld on the parent material. What I have learned the hard way is use plenty of current.., burn it in deep.., that is if you want strength!
9. I repeat myself..,
PREP is everything.., Keep it CLEAN.
10. Please reply.., I want to help..,

[572Camaro]

OOPS..,
Please use 3/32" tungsten 2% thoriated.

[rixtrix1]

OOPS..,
Please use 3/32" tungsten 2% thoriated.

I only have 2% lanthenated right now, but I work next door to a welding supply shop and get a discount through work. Furick gas lense and clear cup works fantastic.
Space cadet on the tensile strength vs alloy numbers. I do have some lower strength I've used on body work as it's easier to hammerweld or grind. Perhaps the lower alloy creates a better bridge between the other steels.

[jarhead]

I decided I needed to come back and read this, and watch some videos.

Will be practicing on 18-20 gauge sheet metal scraps. I want to work on my Torino cowl after I learn from my mistakes, it won't be seen but I want to do a good job. I've already repaired some of it with MIG.

I was just at the local welding supply to get argon (92CF). He reccomended, and I bought.

*70S-6 filler 1/16X36 here pounds.
* 2% cerriated tungsten in 1/16 and 3/32, I bought one of each.

My family gave me the HTP-221 for Christmas, and it has an assortment of gas lenses, none of which are clear. It has a 17 torch and the standard lenses, etc.

The question is did I buy the correct supplies to get started burning coupons?

Thanks!

[GregWeld]

I decided I needed to come back and read this, and watch some videos.

Will be practicing on 18-20 gauge sheet metal scraps. I want to work on my Torino cowl after I learn from my mistakes, it won't be seen but I want to do a good job. I've already repaired some of it with MIG.

I was just at the local welding supply to get argon (92CF). He reccomended, and I bought.

*70S-6 filler 1/16X36 here pounds.
* 2% cerriated tungsten in 1/16 and 3/32, I bought one of each.

My family gave me the HTP-221 for Christmas, and it has an assortment of gas lenses, none of which are clear. It has a 17 torch and the standard lenses, etc.

The question is did I buy the correct supplies to get started burning coupons?

Thanks!


Quick response Joe —- yes...

See if I can say all this correctly so people understand what I’m saying.....

TIG welding - like GOLF has nothing to do with the equipment - and everything to do with developed or developing the skills required. The hardest part of welding won’t ever be the equipment at hand..... if you have the skill.

TIG is HARD — not in a hard way — but in the skill aquiriing department. It’s eye / hand / foot.... and it’s BOTH hands doing different things - and now add in the foot. I’ve been a drummer for over 50 years - “independence” of your hands and feet is mandatory. And if you ever learned welding (as I did) using a GAS torch and fill rod - TIG is similar and uses that same “SEEING the puddle - moving the puddle - and adding fill”. THIS IS HARDER than most think —- and it’s very frustrating to see all these other welders lay perfect stacks of dimes, as if done by a robot.... Those people are generally professionals.

I suggest people start on some thicker gauge material — so they can concentrate on the puddle and torch angle and hand steadiness etc versus burning / blowing thru - dealing with the warp - and all the other things that happen in a hurry when you’re just learning and using sheet metal. CLEAN THAT MATERIAL to bright shiny metal and prep it with acetone so it’s grease free..... and just run the torch to get your travel speed and heat control and settings and gas flow and all those basics.

When you feel you can “run a bead” — add the fill and this is when the poo hits the fan as you contaminate your tungsten..... and you begin to think you are retarded ..... keep at it — for hours and hours.... days..... you WILL BE HOOKED and it will test your will - because this should be so dang easy — and it’s NOT. LOL

Graduate to stitching some cheap short pieces of angle iron together for a butt weld - then join them together lengthwise - and make boxes — whatever..... but stick to this thicker gauge material... when you’re satisfied with what you’re doing - start joining thick to thin.... this is just more puddle control and heat control.. and warp control. And if you think you’re struggling — make up an ILL FITTING piece and try that - because that will teach you to make FIT UP KEY along with cleanliness....... because if it don’t fit — well... just do it - you’ll thank me later.

There’s more - but I need to go to bed.

HAVE FUN WITH THIS BECAUSE IT’S AN AMAZING SKILL

Gas Lens — good gas flow - need less CFH for similar job with standard torch

[jarhead]

Thanks Greg!

[GregWeld]

Thanks Greg!

That got long winded — but it was an attempt to HELP people keep at this vs scare them away from trying.

To me personally - life and this hobby should always be about skill building and learning and having fun... What else is there. Get out there and pick up a tool.

BTW — Watching videos is extremely helpful - but then you have to TRY.....

[dhutton]

Learning to TIG weld is on my bucket list. I’ve got a new Diversion 180 sitting in my shop. I did some work for a retired high school welding teacher who I’m going to ask for help if I get stuck.

Don

[jmac]

Let me know how you like that Diversion 180 Don. It's on my radar and have heard nothing but good things about it.

I'm a total newb at TIG, did take some courses at the local vocational school years ago and got to play around with it. Will definitely sign up again when I have the time.

Great thread Greg, and thanks for everyone's input!

[GregWeld]

Let me know how you like that Diversion 180 Don. It's on my radar and have heard nothing but good things about it.

I'm a total newb at TIG, did take some courses at the local vocational school years ago and got to play around with it. Will definitely sign up again when I have the time.

Great thread Greg, and thanks for everyone's input!

You’d think I thought I was the greatest TIG welder ever — and that couldn’t be further from the truth — but I’ve done it all — and I’m trying to write from a “been there and done that” perspective to help others.

It’s just like almost everything else we ever do in life —- we have to START somewhere — and gain experience and learn by doing and asking and trying again..... That’s where I’m trying to help.

[572Camaro]

Funny thing.., When I got married in 1989, I was in charge of the welding program at the Callaway Nuclear Plant in Missouri but didn't know how to weld.
And trust me.., welding programs at nuclear plants is serious business.
So anyway, I went to TIG welding school at nights. And on my first trip, my newlywed wife jumps in the car and proclaims, "I wanna learn how to weld too!"
Six weeks of night school later, my new wife could weld! As for as me.., well.., I am still learning every day.

[572Camaro]

Greg provided excellent advice regarding how to get started.
Follow his lead and you will fall in love with your new skill

[SSLance]

Funny thing.., When I got married in 1989, I was in charge of the welding program at the Callaway Nuclear Plant in Missouri but didn't know how to weld.
And trust me.., welding programs at nuclear plants is serious business.
So anyway, I went to TIG welding school at nights. And on my first trip, my newlywed wife jumps in the car and proclaims, "I wanna learn how to weld too!"
Six weeks of night school later, my new wife could weld! As for as me.., well.., I am still learning every day.

I bet you have run across my brother from time to time. He learned non-destructive testing in the Navy and has been inspecting welds and vessels ever since...for a long time was with a company (Acuren) in the KC area that did a lot of work with Nuke plants in the area.

[572Camaro]

I bet you have run across my brother from time to time. He learned non-destructive testing in the Navy and has been inspecting welds and vessels ever since...for a long time was with a company (Acuren) in the KC area that did a lot of work with Nuke plants in the area.

SS Lance, thanks for replying..,
Your brother was probably at my plant.
The NDE guys suck up serious radiation when doing non destructive examinations of the reactor vessel.
It's all about ASME
He is probably qualified to ASME Section IX, which is pretty cool.
Weld examinations at a nuclear plant include:
PT = Dye penetrant surface exam
UT = Ultrasonic exam
RT = Radiography exam. (either an Iridium or Cobalt 60 source)
VT = Visual exam.., usually at pressure and Temperature

I currently pt my welds when they involve suspension or steering or anything critical.

[SSLance]

He probably certified a lot of the welders at the plant as well...that was a big part of his duties at Acuren. He is now with an Environmental Co in KC leading their tank inspection division.