PWM cooling fan(s) control using ECM

[jmac]

Has anyone been able to find where to buy Spal brushless fans?

It's been next to impossible to even find any specs on them!

Thanks!

[dhutton]

Has anyone been able to find where to buy Spal brushless fans?

It's been next to impossible to even find any specs on them!

Thanks!

I think C&R is selling them.

Don

[dhutton]

These guys have Spal specs:

https://wizardcooling.com/spal-brushless-fans/

Don

[Duneaholic]

After reading roughly half of this thread the info is amazing and want to thank everyone that has taken the time to post. My problem is i can't find a definitive answer to the frequency question for the fan I want to use in my Hemi conversation into my 1984 Dodge ram. I am using the GM (spal written all over it) fan part number 23455465. See pic of fan can someone please give me the correct numbers for controlling this fan? Also the mating plug that is needed.Thanks in advance.

[andrewb70]

The blue Spal mating connector will work.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CTDGNGT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Earlier in this thread there are specification for the C7 Corvette fan. My gut tells me they should work with this fan.

Andrew

[jmac]

Good find Andrew!

[65 Drop Top]

I’ve read through this entire thread, more than once, and I think I’ve retained most of the information. But, what I don’t completely understand is how to make multiple systems work together, for example: GMPP crate engine controller, VA trinary switch, DCC PWM, Dual Spal fans. Does anybody have a wiring diagram for this combination that they could post? Seems like this is popular combination of parts. And a follow up question would be if somebody used a Speartech or PSI harness instead of GMPP would that change anything? Thanks

[dhutton]

When you use the DCC fan controller it is completely standalone and not connected to the ECM. The DCC instructions tell you how to interface to the trinary switch. It’s pretty straightforward. The fans connect to the DCC controller. The ECM fan relays are not used.

Don

[waynieZ]

Have you used one of the DCC controllers Don ? Did it work well?

[65 Drop Top]

When you use the DCC fan controller it is completely standalone and not connected to the ECM. The DCC instructions tell you how to interface to the trinary switch. It’s pretty straightforward. The fans connect to the DCC controller. The ECM fan relays are not used.

Don

Got it, thank you. What I didn’t realize was that the DCC and the GMPP ECM do not hook up together. Are there any potential issues if the ECM does not know what the fans are doing? And then do you just abandon the GMPP fan wire?

[dhutton]

Have you used one of the DCC controllers Don ? Did it work well?

I have used it a couple of times. Works great.

Don

[dhutton]

Got it, thank you. What I didn’t realize was that the DCC and the GMPP ECM do not hook up together. Are there any potential issues if the ECM does not know what the fans are doing? And then do you just abandon the GMPP fan wire?

I just left the GMPP fan wire unused. No issues. ECM only cares about coolant temperature.

Don

[214Chevy]

Thanks for all of your insight Don.

[NAPA 68]

Looking at the DCC controller and reading the instructions, it appears to me the fan will continue to run after the car is shut off. First, am I correct? Secondly, is there a right way to get around it?

In advance, thanks for your consideration.
Tim

[dhutton]

Looking at the DCC controller and reading the instructions, it appears to me the fan will continue to run after the car is shut off. First, am I correct? Secondly, is there a right way to get around it?

In advance, thanks for your consideration.
Tim

It only runs for a few seconds until the coolant in the radiator falls below the set temperature. Not a big deal in my experience.

Don

[billohio]

I saw the 3 different sized DCC controllers. Which one would be needed with an Entrophy dual fan radiator? There's an FK45, 75 and 95.
Thanks

[dhutton]

I saw the 3 different sized DCC controllers. Which one would be needed with an Entrophy dual fan radiator? There's an FK45, 75 and 95.
Thanks

I just use the 95 since I’m guessing the extra margin can’t hurt.

Don

[andrewb70]

With my urging, one of my tuning customers installed a C7 Corvette fan in his 408 Windsor powered Ford F150 with the Holley Dominator ECU.

This fan works flawlessly with the Holley Dominator, which means it will work perfectly with all other Holley systems (excluding Sniper). Fan control was integrated with the AC system trinary switch, which enables different fan speed settings regardless of engine temperature.

He had his truck idling with the AC on in 95 degree AZ heat and the temperature never went above 186, with the fan hovering around 50-55% duty cycle.

Andrew

[dontlifttoshift]

Derp. That's a pretty easy way to do it. 12v from trinary = fan runs at XX%

Well done.

And yeah, just did a C7 fan with a Terminator in a 55 Pickup and its awesome.

[andrewb70]

Derp. That's a pretty easy way to do it. 12v from trinary = fan runs at XX%

Well done.

And yeah, just did a C7 fan with a Terminator in a 55 Pickup and its awesome.

Donny,

Give me a call when you get a chance. I think you have my number. If not, check your PM.

Andrew

[130fe]

Andrew, do you think the C7 fan would work well with the LS3 GMPP fan wire (without PWM)? I was the one that asked you questions about the C7 fan dimensions on IG yesterday. I currently have the Entropy radiator (and it’s controller) am looking at other radiator/fan options.

[andrewb70]

Andrew, do you think the C7 fan would work well with the LS3 GMPP fan wire (without PWM)? I was the one that asked you questions about the C7 fan dimensions on IG yesterday. I currently have the Entropy radiator (and it’s controller) am looking at other radiator/fan options.

Chris,

The fan wire on the GMPP harness is just a ground trigger for a relay, and will definitely not work with the C7 fan. Spal does offer tidy little controllers for their brushless fans, which I'm certain will work with the C7 fan. However, they are not adjustable, and you have to make sure to pick the right one for your thermostat, otherwise the fan will run all the time. It's definitely not as elegant as what I did on Sean's truck.

Andrew

[wiedemab]

With my urging, one of my tuning customers installed a C7 Corvette fan in his 408 Windsor powered Ford F150 with the Holley Dominator ECU.

This fan works flawlessly with the Holley Dominator, which means it will work perfectly with all other Holley systems (excluding Sniper). Fan control was integrated with the AC system trinary switch, which enables different fan speed settings regardless of engine temperature.

He had his truck idling with the AC on in 95 degree AZ heat and the temperature never went above 186, with the fan hovering around 50-55% duty cycle.

Andrew

I may reach out when I get to this point in my build just to make sure I'm thinking of things correctly. First I'll read back through this thread! :)

I have the C&R w/ Spal setup that I plan to run in PWM with the Ford controller.... Should be fairly straight forward from a wiring perspective - - just want to validate my thinking on how to handle the signal from the AC...

[andrewb70]

I may reach out when I get to this point in my build just to make sure I'm thinking of things correctly. First I'll read back through this thread! :)

I have the C&R w/ Spal setup that I plan to run in PWM with the Ford controller.... Should be fairly straight forward from a wiring perspective - - just want to validate my thinking on how to handle the signal from the AC...

Brandon,

Are you using Holley EFI?

Andrew

[CamaroAJ]

With my urging, one of my tuning customers installed a C7 Corvette fan in his 408 Windsor powered Ford F150 with the Holley Dominator ECU.

This fan works flawlessly with the Holley Dominator, which means it will work perfectly with all other Holley systems (excluding Sniper). Fan control was integrated with the AC system trinary switch, which enables different fan speed settings regardless of engine temperature.

He had his truck idling with the AC on in 95 degree AZ heat and the temperature never went above 186, with the fan hovering around 50-55% duty cycle.

Andrew

The C7 fan is a good fan for 16" and 600w. The CTS-V fan is a bigger option at 19" and 850w if you have the room for it. Tuning wise it will be the same as you can plug and play a V fan in a C7 with a custom shroud like Dewitts does. Thats the fan Stielow has used before as well. Either fan is around $300.

[andrewb70]

The C7 fan is a good fan for 16" and 600w. The CTS-V fan is a bigger option at 19" and 850w if you have the room for it. Tuning wise it will be the same as you can plug and play a V fan in a C7 with a custom shroud like Dewitts does. Thats the fan Stielow has used before as well. Either fan is around $300.

The CTSV fan is impressive, but most classic radiator shapes don't have enough height to accommodate it without a custom radiator.

[CamaroAJ]

The CTSV fan is impressive, but most classic radiator shapes don't have enough height to accommodate it without a custom radiator.

a little cut and paste with some some juicy fruit and bingo, fits like a glove.

[andrewb70]

a little cut and paste with some some juicy fruit and bingo, fits like a glove.

In case you haven't noticed, your fabrication skills are at least 2 standard deviations from the mean :D

Andrew

[CamaroAJ]

In case you haven't noticed, your fabrication skills are at least 2 standard deviations from the mean :D

Andrew

Instagram filters lol

[durhamray1]

I'm pretty sure you don't need the controllers with the brushless fans. They have everything built into the motor controllers, so you just need to provide power, ground, and a PWM- signal. Presumably the PWM- should be configured the same as with a C6 controller. This is somewhat speculative on my part.

Andrew

This is the information that I got from Spal on my brushless fan assy that I got from Wizzard Cooling , I think it answers all of the questions about wiring the internal PWM controller.

[dhutton]

That is awesome info. Thanks.

Don

[Tony V]

Ok guys I’m trying to circle in on how I want to drive my fans and need a little help. There’s probably 15 different ways to do it but here’s where I’m at:
• Must be PWM other than that I’m open
Currently I have:
• Holley HP ECU
• 2 C6 PWM modules
• 2 13” Spal Brushed Fans (VA13-AP70/LL-63A
Full disclosure I tracked it and drove it for 18mths with I C6 PWM driving both fans but mid way through something “gave up” and the fans wouldn’t come on. So at the track I wired in two relay’s to drive my fans (on off). Never figured out why they stopped, just assumed I couldn’t drive both fans with 1 PWM modules. After that the car went into paint and everything came off.

Ok now its 2020 (which sucks for its own reasons) I’m putting everything back together and I’m doing a little research. First thought…did I screw up and try to drive PWM with a brushed fan? The Fans worked perfectly after I wired them to relays but did I fry the PWM?
So here’s my thought process
In Option #1 in my picture was my initial thought was just add another PWM but the more I read up about it, not sure you can do that with brushed fans.
Option #2: swap out fans with brushless fans and drive them with the Holley ECU and the Spal fans use a temp sensor to adj speed.
Option #3: same as option #2 but use the PWM table in the ECU to drive speed.

Any guidance or help would be appreciated

https://i.imgur.com/Wi5cU83.jpg

[andrewb70]

Tony,

It is hard to say exactly what failed. If you are willing to spend some money, then option #3 is the way to go.

I (and many others) have been using the C6 fan controller with brushed fans for years. My cheap Dorman C6 fan has been amazing with the C6 controller and Dominator ECU.

Reach out to me. I can probably save you some money and also be able to help with the tuning and wiring.

Andrew
Sending PM

[cpd004]

My plan is to use my non GMPP E67 with my current non brushless Griffin radiator fans (Spal) driven by the C6 controller. I have vintage air. Is the pressure switch a must? I'd imagine so.

Everything is currently running discrete, but I hate the noise. I've been putting this off long enough, but the season is going to be winding down soon.

I have non-brushless fans, the controller and harness, otherwise I would've gone with the non brushless fans as this would be the easiest adaptation using the wiring that's already in place...unless I'm understanding this incorrectly.

Besides the pressure switch (if necessary), is there anything else I'm missing?

[andrewb70]

My plan is to use my non GMPP E67 with my current non brushless Griffin radiator fans (Spal) driven by the C6 controller. I have vintage air. Is the pressure switch a must? I'd imagine so.

Everything is currently running discrete, but I hate the noise. I've been putting this off long enough, but the season is going to be winding down soon.

I have non-brushless fans, the controller and harness, otherwise I would've gone with the non brushless fans as this would be the easiest adaptation using the wiring that's already in place...unless I'm understanding this incorrectly.

Besides the pressure switch (if necessary), is there anything else I'm missing?

I mostly have experience with the Holley EFI, but from what I can see, I think you are good to go.

Andrew

[cpd004]

Thanks Andrew...do you know if I definitely need a pressure sensor for the AC? I'm thinking I do, but not thoroughly sure. If so, not a big deal as here seem to be quite a few different ways to tap in to one of the lines or the drier.

Can someone post their table for the PWM vs Temp settings? If it matters, I'm working with an E67.

[andrewb70]

Thanks Andrew...do you know if I definitely need a pressure sensor for the AC? I'm thinking I do, but not thoroughly sure. If so, not a big deal as here seem to be quite a few different ways to tap in to one of the lines or the drier.

Can someone post their table for the PWM vs Temp settings? If it matters, I'm working with an E67.

Having a pressure sensor is recommended, because then the ECU will demand a certain fan speed when the AC pressure reaches a certain point, regardless of engine temperature.

Andrew

[Tony V]

Well, a big shout out to Andrew guiding me and helping out a bunch but because I already had the fans and C6 PWM modules, here's what i got. I hope this helps others. I'm also assuming that tying two fans each probably killed my first module they had the potential to peak at 45amps each at start up (without PWM) so i'll let everyone know how this latest set up works for me. There's many new ways to do this but because i already had them this would be the quickest and cheapest....

https://i.imgur.com/rrqQXvN.jpg

[andrewb70]

Well, a big shout out to Andrew guiding me and helping out a bunch but because I already had the fans and C6 PWM modules, here's what i got. I hope this helps others. I'm also assuming that tying two fans each probably killed my first module they had the potential to peak at 45amps each at start up (without PWM) so i'll let everyone know how this latest set up works for me. There's many new ways to do this but because i already had them this would be the quickest and cheapest....

https://i.imgur.com/rrqQXvN.jpg

Tony,

I am looking forward to working with you more!

Andrew

[AJG87]

BTW - GM crate controller wiring joins fan1 and fan2 outputs to relay - need to separate to send fan1 only to PWM controller.

Dave


As a follow up to this statement, on my GMPP E67 kit, schematic says C3-49 being a green wire to fuse bus position 7D. Is someone familiar enough to detail what the process here is, with regards to splitting fan1 and fan2, to make appropriate input connection at PWM controller @ position 6?

Thank you in advance!

Andrew

[dontlifttoshift]

GMPP harnesses only.

I have tried separating them and have been unsuccessful at getting two separate fan controls. You can operate two separate relays, with two separate fans but they will turn on and off at the same time.

......and once they come on, will not shut off until a set speed is reached, regardless of temperature.

[andrewb70]

GMPP harnesses only.

I have tried separating them and have been unsuccessful at getting two separate fan controls. You can operate two separate relays, with two separate fans but they will turn on and off at the same time.

......and once they come on, will not shut off until a set speed is reached, regardless of temperature.

This seems like more evidence to the fact that at some point GM changed the ECU in their kits.

The GMPP harness and ECU in my GTO were purchased in 2008. I don't have a speed input to the ECU. My fans turn on around 210 and turn off around 205.

Andrew

[samckitt]

This seems like more evidence to the fact that at some point GM changed the ECU in their kits.

The GMPP harness and ECU in my GTO were purchased in 2008. I don't have a speed input to the ECU. My fans turn on around 210 and turn off around 205.

Andrew

A buddy of mine assures me he has the PWM fan working on the GMPP controller kit. He says the PWM signal terminal is connector J3, pin 49. Check that you are using that for the signal & not the exiting fan wire that triggers the relay for on/off fan.

[samckitt]

Also I found this site that sells the fittings for the AC pressure switch.

https://www.bp-automotive.com/product-category/air-conditioning/

[cpd004]

I am second guessing myself and don't know if this has been answered anywhere throughout this discussion. Is the Ford Fusion controller:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=7097004&jsn=3

looking for 100 or 128 Hz? I'm hoping it will play nice with my E67 and dual Spal 14" fans (Griffin assembly).

I have a Speartech harness that has no provision for the AC pressure switch signal to go back to the E67 currently.

I also have Vintage Air and a trinary switch plumbed in. I haven't gotten around to actually filling the system to use it. It's been running a dual relay configuration in discrete mode since it's been together, but the quest to quiet the noise down and better control the temp's has me going the PWM route.

I, too, have a trunk mounted battery and am planning on using the engine bay mounted distribution block currently used by my relay/discrete fan set up. Someone else asked about any potential issues running this was early on in this thread, but no one replied.

[andrewb70]

I am second guessing myself and don't know if this has been answered anywhere throughout this discussion. Is the Ford Fusion controller:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=7097004&jsn=3

looking for 100 or 128 Hz? I'm hoping it will play nice with my E67 and dual Spal 14" fans (Griffin assembly).

I have a Speartech harness that has no provision for the AC pressure switch signal to go back to the E67 currently.

I also have Vintage Air and a trinary switch plumbed in. I haven't gotten around to actually filling the system to use it. It's been running a dual relay configuration in discrete mode since it's been together, but the quest to quiet the noise down and better control the temp's has me going the PWM route.

I, too, have a trunk mounted battery and am planning on using the engine bay mounted distribution block currently used by my relay/discrete fan set up. Someone else asked about any potential issues running this was early on in this thread, but no one replied.

I can't answer everything, but I will what I can.

You want 128Hz. Depending on the amp draw of those fans, one of those controllers may not be enough. That controller is rated for a 400watt fan (Volts X Amps = watts). If you it wouldn't be hard to exceed that power rating with two 14" SPALs.

Andrew

[cpd004]

So the Fusion controller is also looking for 128 hz?

[cpd004]

My fans are : VA08-AP10/C-23A 12V

I thought that the -23A would be the amps, but when I google this part number, I get 6.3A draw

https://the-fan-man.com/product/14-spal-low-profile-pull-type-electric-fan-s385/

https://www.spalautomotive.it/axial-fans/va08-ap10_c-23a/31689

Which is correct to multiply by for the wattage?



I was also looking at the configuration on my SS sedan. It has a controller with two outputs going to each of two different looking fans. The opposite side also looks similar to the Yazaki connector although with much heavier gauge wire.


I'll have to get a better look at it when I have more time.

https://i.postimg.cc/13Ttnt68/3-D420000-7627-47-BE-B0-C4-3-F4-F150-D7-A07.jpg (https://postimg.cc/Yv6kTtd7)

https://i.postimg.cc/mghkgMcx/DC0-B725-D-3-B1-D-4205-A56-C-773-EC4-DB96-D6.jpg (https://postimg.cc/9D5CxDt1)

[andrewb70]

So the Fusion controller is also looking for 128 hz?

Yes.

My fans are : VA08-AP10/C-23A 12V

I thought that the -23A would be the amps, but when I google this part number, I get 6.3A draw

https://the-fan-man.com/product/14-spal-low-profile-pull-type-electric-fan-s385/

https://www.spalautomotive.it/axial-fans/va08-ap10_c-23a/31689

Which is correct to multiply by for the wattage?



My guess is that the fan draws 6-7 amps while running and 23 at startup. Since you have soft start with PWM, you would use the 6-7 amp value. Based on this information, I wouldn't exactly call these "powerful" fans.

I bet those SS fans work well!

Andrew

[cpd004]

Thanks for the info. Yes...at 956 CFM, I can see why one never turns off while idling at 90+. Loud and annoying. It didn't get hot enough for the 2nd to turn on. It didn't overheat, but I never got stuck in one spot for a very long time.

I haven't had much luck with Griffin. This is the second. The first leaked. Summit replaced it. The second leaked as well in the same place as the first just out of warranty. I had a local shop repair it late last year. So far it's ok, but it may be just a matter of time before it does once again. I'm not duprised that the fans are such low flowing.

My dilemma is either to go ahead and work with what I have as the CFM of both together should be ok, or upgrade the fans alone hoping the radiator holds out. I've spent quite of time ensuring it's mounted with vibration and isolation in mind.

The SS radiator mounts sort of oddly if I was to try and locate the whole thing to try. Plus, who knows how that controller would get along with my E67. The SS is an E38 I believe.

[andrewb70]

Thanks for the info. Yes...at 956 CFM, I can see why one never turns off while idling at 90+. Loud and annoying. It didn't get hot enough for the 2nd to turn on. It didn't overheat, but I never got stuck in one spot for a very long time.

I haven't had much luck with Griffin. This is the second. The first leaked. Summit replaced it. The second leaked as well in the same place as the first just out of warranty. I had a local shop repair it late last year. So far it's ok, but it may be just a matter of time before it does once again. I'm not duprised that the fans are such low flowing.

My dilemma is either to go ahead and work with what I have as the CFM of both together should be ok, or upgrade the fans alone hoping the radiator holds out. I've spent quite of time ensuring it's mounted with vibration and isolation in mind.

The SS radiator mounts sort of oddly if I was to try and locate the whole thing to try. Plus, who knows how that controller would get along with my E67. The SS is an E38 I believe.

Good info here:

https://www.tbssowners.com/threads/c7-pwm-brushless-control.241568/

Andrew

[cpd004]

So the plan for now is working with what I have. I'll use the Fusion controller and harness to run both of my smaller Spal fans together. They would flow just under 1900 CFM at max over most of the core. I'll see what happens.

My plan is to take power for the controller from a stud in my engine bay that is wired directly to my trunk mounted battery. This is would be a short 4.5' run to the controller. While I'd like to use a single Jcase fuse and 10 awg wire, I can't find one I like. I do have a 60A Maxi fuse and holder that I will use for now. Coming out of the controller, I was contemplating using a distribution block that will wire the two fans. I was thinking of further fusing these two at that block with smaller fuses(30A each), but this may be redundant. I do feel that these would blow much quicker should the need arise over the 60A upstream.

Any thoughts?

[andrewb70]

I'd keep it simple and just use a single 50-60 amp fuse.

[cpd004]

Definitely like the KISS method. I’m going to try the 50 and see what happens. On a whim, I have an SS sedan fan assembly coming to check out as well.

[cpd004]

The SS fan arrived today. The module does accept the Yazaki connector. Here are some pics in case anyone is interested in sizing:

https://i.postimg.cc/wxF5nrLH/DD21858-C-D67-A-471-C-BC57-A5-E2872-ABF93.jpg (https://postimg.cc/PNp8w2SF)

https://i.postimg.cc/dt1RF9jC/01935-CF1-A487-435-F-BF5-F-508-BF6-A00266.jpg (https://postimg.cc/kD0RFKZM)

https://i.postimg.cc/sXr9RdTf/01-D04-D25-E6-B4-455-E-9-D4-C-18-AF30454-D8-F.jpg (https://postimg.cc/gwg6v591)

https://i.postimg.cc/8cyhWFNs/1352-E57-C-9-C71-4-EEB-93-E4-DC09-D9981-D26.jpg (https://postimg.cc/4H97RxKT)

https://i.postimg.cc/j2qHL6VG/0-B1999-FD-6-DE8-4-E44-84-C1-EA49913-A65-CD.jpg (https://postimg.cc/Ppcp7w54)

https://i.postimg.cc/63fVWjPr/0-F619613-F7-CD-44-B0-81-FC-9-F15-AFE68022.jpg (https://postimg.cc/1n4VMHsX)

[cpd004]

My plan is to plumb the C6 pressure sensor into one of the two lines going in and out of the condenser. On my Vintage Air condenser, there is a larger (-08 EZ Clip) line on the top of the condenser that comes from the compressor. At the bottom is an -06 line that goes into the drier. From the drier, another -06 line goes into the under dash unit. My understanding is that the C6 pressure sensor should go to the -06 line coming out of the drier as it goes into the main under dash unit.


Is this the correct location for it?


The trinary switch from the initial relay non PWM fan system is at the top of the drier. Is there any need to switch back to the original binary switch or just leave the 3rd wire disconnected?

[andrewb70]

...


The trinary switch from the initial relay non PWM fan system is at the top of the drier. Is there any need to switch back to the original binary switch or just leave the 3rd wire disconnected?

I don't know about the other stuff, but you can keep the trinary switch, and just ignore the fan switch part of it.

Andrew

[dontlifttoshift]

I don't see any reason the pressure sensor can't go in either the 6 or the 8 hose. I have done charge ports in the 6 before and have not noticed any drastic differences in pressure readings. There are EZ clip fitting that will accept the pressure sensor......I never found one for an 8. There are also driers that will do the same.

I try to set the fan/ac pressure table with the engine cold. The goal is find a minimum speed that will keep high side pressure below 250 psi. I do this with my analog pressure gauges attached to ensure that the scaling for my sensor is reasonably accurate.

[cpd004]

Thank you both. The -06 it is then. I also run an 07 Trailblazer E67 ECM. The lowest temp available to me is 192. There is an updated OS (2 bar) that will lower it, so I'll try and do that without-hopefully-affecting how the car runs now. My plan is to only take advantage of the lower fan table, but continue to run a 1 bar map.

[andrewb70]

Thank you both. The -06 it is then. I also run an 07 Trailblazer E67 ECM. The lowest temp available to me is 192. There is an updated OS (2 bar) that will lower it, so I'll try and do that without-hopefully-affecting how the car runs now. My plan is to only take advantage of the lower fan table, but continue to run a 1 bar map.

You don't really need any fan below 192.

[dontlifttoshift]

That. I don't start fans until 200-205. I want to stay off the thermostat.

[cpd004]

Is there a 'how to' remove pins from the round Yazaki connector?

[andrewb70]

Is there a 'how to' remove pins from the round Yazaki connector?

I should make one. The white cap pops off...then the release tabs for the terminals are accessible.

[cpd004]

I should make one. The white cap pops off...then the release tabs for the terminals are accessible.

Thanks! Worked perfectly.

Now on to another issue. Everything hooked up and tune modified with the same settings as in this thread in an early post for my E67. As soon as I plug the main connector to the PWM in with the car off, the fans immediately turn on. This on a cold non running car. While it was sealed and looked new, the bottom does have a slight 'burned electronics' smell. These modules are supposed to have fail safe provisions built in. I wonder if this unit failed and is now in a default always on state despite no signal. Turning the car on makes no change. Scanning shows the fan off until around 198 when the monitor line switches to 'on'. I tested this without the fans operating to get it to temp.

I don't have another unit to swap in to see if the module has failed, nor do I have an oscilloscope.

Worse yet (or better now in the garage) I found a very small pinhole in the core of the radiator. Griffin sucks!

[andrewb70]

I accidentally hooked up the power side to the controller backwards. The fan would run all the time...and then it eventually smoked the controller. Might want to double-check that. If you smoked the controller, time to get the Volt fans.

[cpd004]

I accidentally hooked up the power side to the controller backwards. The fan would run all the time...and then it eventually smoked the controller. Might want to double-check that. If you smoked the controller, time to get the Volt fans.


I just double checked everything and realized a stupid mistake on my part-I think. The PWM signal is likely ground in a wave. I grounded all the grounds together to the body. In other words, I took both black wires from the module and both of my fan grounds all to the same point on the body. I undid the grounds and the fans no longer come on immediately, but no fans despite the command in the tune at ECT. I do believe the module is fried and the leak is getting worse.


I plugged the SS fan in to the round Yazaki connector and it came on immediately with the car off as a pusher. So the input for that module is reverse of what the C6 controller is.

[cpd004]

I hooked up the SS fan with the correct (reversed from C6 module) input, fired up the car and the fans came on slowly at around 198 or so. They got slightly quicker as it got to 209 but I didn't go any further because of the leak and the fact that fan assembly was just leaning against the car. You couldn't hear them but the airflow at that low speed was nice.

My C6 module has to be fried. The SS one would take some work to put in it's place. It has Yazaki connectors on all three sides. One in and one for each fan.

Either way I need to make a decision on the radiator.

So frustrating!

[andrewb70]

I hooked up the SS fan with the correct (reversed from C6 module) input, fired up the car and the fans came on slowly at around 198 or so. They got slightly quicker as it got to 209 but I didn't go any further because of the leak and the fact that fan assembly was just leaning against the car. You couldn't hear them but the airflow at that low speed was nice.

My C6 module has to be fried. The SS one would take some work to put in it's place. It has Yazaki connectors on all three sides. One in and one for each fan.

Either way I need to make a decision on the radiator.

So frustrating!

Go junk yard hunting for a Ford Fusion at the local junk yard and score yourself a C6 fan controller. Should be about $30.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

I thought some of you might like seeing PWM fan control in action.

rUL3XeyIWWY

Andrew

[camcojb]

So I have the Holley Dominator EFI and a Ron Davis radiator with dual Spal brushed fans. What else would be needed to make this work?

[andrewb70]

So I have the Holley Dominator EFI and a Ron Davis radiator with dual Spal brushed fans. What else would be needed to make this work?

Depending on which Spal fans you have you, you might be able to use one C6 fan controller for both. If the combined amp draw of both fans exceeds 32 amps, you will need two C6 fan controllers.

By the time you get two controllers (unless you want to go junk car hunting...the Ford Fusion used the same controller) you might be better off selling the fans you have and going with the new brushless fans.

The C7 fan should fit a Chevelle radiator size well or perhaps the Chevrolet Volt dual 12" setup. The new fans have the controllers built in. I have several customers using the C7 fan and Holley EFI. The C7 fan is 600 watts and the Volt fans are 300 watts each.

I plan on updating the GTO this spring and will likely use the Volt fans.

Andrew

[camcojb]

Thanks Andrew. My plan was to use the PWM controller that Northern Radiator sells with development from Carl at Vaporworx. It will work with everything I already have. Do love the idea of PWM fan control, wish that Holley had it built into their ECU; they have controls for nearly everything else lol.

[andrewb70]

Carl's controller is a standalone unit and so it doesn't need anything from the Holley EFI.

[camcojb]

Carl's controller is a standalone unit and so it doesn't need anything from the Holley EFI.

Correct.

[camcojb]

Carl's controller is a standalone unit and so it doesn't need anything from the Holley EFI.

Correct. I was hoping that the Holley could do it, but if I have to buy a controller and possibly change fans it's easier to use Carls setup.

[AEH]

So after re-reading all 58 pages of this thread is there a consensus on if a late (2019-20) version GMPP connect & cruise E67 will work ? The last failed or maybe frustrating is a better term, efforts were back in 2017 if memory serves.

Has anyone had success lately? And if so, what was the fix? Other than of course sourcing a junkyard E67?

Thanks
Mike

[jaba]

So, here's what I've learned last night/today. My E67 (GM PN 12636660) started life intended for 07-08 Hummers. I think it's true that 07-08 E67s are incompatible with OS's written for 09+ E67s.

Given that, it seems I'm stuck. Getting a later E67 and a newer OS (like from a ZR1) is beyond my current abilities, I think.

I have read that HPTuners has an OS patch to support PWM fans, but I can't seem to find any such animal.

Anyway, that's the situation as I see it. Am I wrong? Would it be doable to get GM's ZR1 tune working with my crate motor LS9 if I got a newer E67?

Paging Dave Mikels, paging Dave Mikels. Dave Mikels to the E67-challenged section, please!

thanks!

So touching on the whole E67 GMPP ECM's being unable to run PWM fans, is this specific to that older version of the ECM? (12636660)

My ECU is GM PN 19354333, does anyone know if they made revisions to the software that now allows PWM control of the fans?

[dontlifttoshift]

I never attempted it again. Even with on/off fan control I have been using Dakota Digital controllers instead of the ECU as the existing strategy in the ECU is so colossally dumb and cannot be changed.

[Bobsky]

So, this is a very long thread, but a question that still isn't clear to me is whether a current GM LT4 Crate harness with E92 can support PWM? It appears that only fan relay control is provided (from instruction manuals). Can a PWM signal be pirated off the harness for SPAL brushless fan control somehow? :)

[68454RS]

Carl's controller is a standalone unit and so it doesn't need anything from the Holley EFI.

Andrew, is this not the same as what you did with my Term X and my Spal brushless? Or something completely different and I should delete this.. lol

[colorado80439]

77637

[andrewb70]

Andrew, is this not the same as what you did with my Term X and my Spal brushless? Or something completely different and I should delete this.. lol

When using the brushless fan with the built in controller, you can go directly from the Holley to the fan signal wire.

Andrew

[68LS1]

Can someone confirm the part number for suitable fans to use with Holley EFI

What are the suitable fan options? C7 Corvette and any thing else.

This is for my 71 Blazer, but may also update on my 72 C10

thanks

[andrewb70]

Can someone confirm the part number for suitable fans to use with Holley EFI

What are the suitable fan options? C7 Corvette and any thing else.

This is for my 71 Blazer, but may also update on my 72 C10

thanks

There are many brushless fans that will work with the Holley EFI. It would be helpful to know the size of the core of the radiator you are using. On my 70 GTO I am using the dual Chevy Volt fans that fit the 26x18X core very nicely.

Andrew

[68LS1]

There are many brushless fans that will work with the Holley EFI. It would be helpful to know the size of the core of the radiator you are using. On my 70 GTO I am using the dual Chevy Volt fans that fit the 26x18X core very nicely.

Andrew

The core size is 16-1/8" H x 28-3/8" W. I have a preference to run a single fan

Will be using a Holley Terminator Stealth

[andrewb70]

The core size is 16-1/8" H x 28-3/8" W. I have a preference to run a single fan

Will be using a Holley Terminator Stealth

The C7 fan should fit your core nicely and will work very well.

Andrew

[68LS1]

The C7 fan should fit your core nicely and will work very well.

Andrew

Is this the one I should order, Part No 84486698?

https://sdparts.com/i-24135048-genuine-gm-parts-84486698-c7-corvette-600-watt-radiator-fan.html

thanks

[andrewb70]

Is this the one I should order, Part No 84486698?

https://sdparts.com/i-24135048-genuine-gm-parts-84486698-c7-corvette-600-watt-radiator-fan.html

thanks

That is the one...

Andrew

[flyingv]

For any of you with an E67 from an 09' vehicle, here is what changes I made to finally get the C7 PWM fan to work.

1. I changed the OS from 09' CTS-V to an 09' ZR1

I did confirm through a document on the EFI Live forum that the 2 OS's are compatible.

*no matter what i did with the CTS-V calibration, I could not get a output signal from X3-49*

2. I changed fan settings to PWM Electric 100hz

*PWM EV 100hz did not work per the C7 calibration*

3. Fan State vs. Desired (all zeroes)

4. Output State vs. Control (all 1's)

5. Wired in AC pressure sensor @ X3-21, X3-57, & X3-37

Viola! PWM fan control works in the scanner!

[andrewb70]

For any of you with an E67 from an 09' vehicle, here is what changes I made to finally get the C7 PWM fan to work.

1. I changed the OS from 09' CTS-V to an 09' ZR1

I did confirm through a document on the EFI Live forum that the 2 OS's are compatible.

*no matter what i did with the CTS-V calibration, I could not get a output signal from X3-49*

2. I changed fan settings to PWM Electric 128hz

*PWM EV 100hz did not work per the C7 calibration*

3. Fan State vs. Desired (all zeroes)

4. Output State vs. Control (all 1's)

5. Wired in AC pressure sensor @ X3-21, X3-57, & X3-37

Viola! PWM fan control works in the scanner!

Good information. Nicely done.

Andrew

[flyingv]

Update

When I commanded the fan on in the VCM scanner, the fan would come on and ramp up as I increased the percentage. However, when I would lower the percentage the fan would stop, and not restart until I cycled the ignition off/on.

So I went back into the calibration and switched the hz setting to 100 on a chance.

Now the fan runs perfect. Moving up or down on the fan control works like it should in scanner.

Thanks again to everyone in this thread for all the informative posts!


Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[andrewb70]

Update

When I commanded the fan on in the VCM scanner, the fan would come on and ramp up as I increased the percentage. However, when I would lower the percentage the fan would stop, and not restart until I cycled the ignition off/on.

So I went back into the calibration and switched the hz setting to 100 on a chance.

Now the fan runs perfect. Moving up or down on the fan control works like it should in scanner.

Thanks again to everyone in this thread for all the informative posts!


Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Everywhere I read indicates that the modern brushless fans use 100Hz.

Andrew

[*rayman*]

where's the best place to buy 2 x SPAL VA89-ABL320P/N-94A fans now. Seems to be very few places to purchase from.

Also noticing the same part number coming up on alibaba now, look identical without the silk screened SPAL logo. Anyone tried these?

[SCP Auto]

Thanks for chiming in! Please keep this thread updated. I know from another LT4 build that the stock GMPP fan configuration is discrete fan control, with a Hi and Low fan setting. PWM would be way better, especially if you're using the new CTSV 800watt fan.

Have you found a source for the Yazaki connector and terminals for the fan?

Andrew
Hello did you find a way to use GMPP E92 to run the cooling fans with PWM

[samckitt]

For any of you with an E67 from an 09' vehicle, here is what changes I made to finally get the C7 PWM fan to work.

1. I changed the OS from 09' CTS-V to an 09' ZR1

I did confirm through a document on the EFI Live forum that the 2 OS's are compatible.

*no matter what i did with the CTS-V calibration, I could not get a output signal from X3-49*

2. I changed fan settings to PWM Electric 100hz

*PWM EV 100hz did not work per the C7 calibration*

3. Fan State vs. Desired (all zeroes)

4. Output State vs. Control (all 1's)

5. Wired in AC pressure sensor @ X3-21, X3-57, & X3-37

Viola! PWM fan control works in the scanner!

Did you use EFI Live or HPTuners to change the OS?
Will it work without the AC pressure sensor or is that required?
Thx

[flyingv]

I used Hptuners to do the OS swap. I do have the AC pressure sensor wired. I don't see why it wouldn't work without it.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[samckitt]

I used Hptuners to do the OS swap. I do have the AC pressure sensor wired. I don't see why it wouldn't work without it.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Where did you get the ZR1 OS file? Thanks