427ci LS2 sleeved, dry sump oil pump, engine build & install, 69 Camaro [Archive]

DaleTx

01-05-2013, 01:59 PM

Hey guys, I am new to this site, I posted up some back ground info in the “introductions” section yesterday. I am currently a member at LS1 Tech and I did an engine build thread there that I wanted to share here at Lat-G. I did a 427ci LS engine with LS7 heads, LS7 single plane intake, 4 barrel TB, and a dry sump oil system. The thread covers the engine build, engine install, dry sump oil pump and plumbing install, and some other stuff. I wanted to try something different using the single plane intake rather than the LS long runner intake. The goal was to build an engine with a long wide power band and good top end that would work well on the street and the track.

I worked with a local engine builder on this project. The engine was built from the ground up starting with an LS2 aluminum block from a wrecked Corvette. Working closely with the builder… I was able to do testing on the engine dyno to try out different cold air intake sets ups, test the digital control fuel system, and CTSV fuel pump. I found out a few surprises testing different cold air intake set ups! I wanted to tune the engine on the dyno exactly as it would be set up in the car. I didn’t want to have issues after install. This worked out great… since the install I have had no issues and the tune is perfect. This was a good way to go.

I swapped out my 450 HP carbureted 350ci gen 1 small bock for the new fuel injected LS engine. I documented the build and install with pictures from start to finish. The duration of the project was about 12 months. The engine was installed in the car this past August. I plan to continue the build project with a swap from the Muncie 4 speed to a T56 Magnum 6 speed (trans on order :D ).

I was pointed to this site by a guy on LS1 Tech. Look forward to being a member here at Lat-G :thumbsup:

Here is the link to the build thread at LS1 Tech:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/1542346-427ci-ls2-sleeved-4-barrel-tb-port-fi-na-dry-sump-engine-build.html

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/CSCC10x11-G3b_151wZF-6202-78874-1-004_zps720d3d58-1_zps0acb6f32-1_zps3a062fda.jpg

214Chevy

01-05-2013, 02:29 PM

Welcome sir. :thumbsup: Sounds like a sweet motor. :yes: Was your motor sleeved by ERL?

gnx7

01-05-2013, 03:00 PM

This is a very nice setup!

The attention to detail is over the top.

What does the car weigh full of fluids without driver?

bonecrrusher

01-05-2013, 03:04 PM

Nice plans!

KPC67

01-05-2013, 03:57 PM

Sweet build!
Signed up on LS1tech the other day so I can learn a thing or two (so far not feeling so welcome there)
you are right at home here.:lateral:

DaleTx

01-05-2013, 06:01 PM

Welcome sir. :thumbsup: Sounds like a sweet motor. :yes: Was your motor sleeved by ERL?

Thanks! My engine was sleeved by Nutter. They do quite a few 427's there.

DaleTx

01-05-2013, 06:08 PM

This is a very nice setup!

The attention to detail is over the top.

What does the car weigh full of fluids without driver?

Thanks! The total weight of the car with no driver is 3,420 LB. Weight distribution is 53% front... 47% rear. The aluminum block on the LS engine helped to take some weight off the front of the car.

:thumbsup:

Flash68

01-05-2013, 06:11 PM

That is a bad mother trucker right there. :thumbsup:

DaleTx

01-05-2013, 06:14 PM

Sweet build!
Signed up on LS1tech the other day so I can learn a thing or two (so far not feeling so welcome there)
you are right at home here.:lateral:

Thanks! Yea I hear you... I was also hoping to get more technical feedback on LS1 Tech. Glad to be here now.

DaleTx

01-05-2013, 06:21 PM

That is a bad mother trucker right there. :thumbsup:

Thanks.... Yea it keeps my attention :D

Che70velle

01-05-2013, 07:51 PM

Sweet build!
Signed up on LS1tech the other day so I can learn a thing or two (so far not feeling so welcome there)
you are right at home here.:lateral:

Welcome dale, good to see you made it over here. Car is still amazing!
I was a regular at ls1 tech, with several hundred posts. I unregistered over there because its a ego fest. More arguing and cussing than actual technical discussions, most of the time. I did learn a lot about the LS engine, however, but I will never log back in over there. I started a new build thread here, and I'm glad I did.:lateral:

GregWeld

01-05-2013, 09:54 PM

DaleTx

01-06-2013, 12:36 AM

Welcome dale, good to see you made it over here. Car is still amazing!
I was a regular at ls1 tech, with several hundred posts. I unregistered over there because its a ego fest. More arguing and cussing than actual technical discussions, most of the time. I did learn a lot about the LS engine, however, but I will never log back in over there. I started a new build thread here, and I'm glad I did.:lateral:

Thanks Scott. I picked up a lot of good info in the past there. Not so much now.
:lateral:

DaleTx

01-06-2013, 12:55 AM

preston

01-06-2013, 01:57 PM

DaleTx

01-06-2013, 05:01 PM

some of your posts indicate the engine is very streetable. I was wondering if you could comment on a few things -

what is your idle vacuum and rpm ?

When you do a cold start at < 45 degrees out, is it the kind of OEM cold start where you can just drive away right away with no issues or is it still a bit hot roddy where you like to let it warm up a minute or two or at least have to drive a bit gingerly at first ? By gingerly I just mean in my rig on a cold start it will drive more or less ok, but it doesn't like a bunch of quick throttle and it will still be a bit balky at low rpms and small throttle inputs until it warms up.

The vacuum level measures just over 10 in Hg at the 1,000 rpm idle speed. I took the vacuum reading off the port on the back of the TB.

After the engine starts I usually let the car run for about 30 seconds before I touch the gas. At that point the car is ready to go. Before the engine gets warmed up I just roll on the throttle gradually. It takes a bit before you can hit it hard. The engine does not balk or stumble though. It has a crisp smooth tip in off idle even when cold. I do a lot of driving on the street and in traffic... no problem... easy to drive, seriously.

This is my first LS engine project with computer control. I am amazed how well the engine starts up, runs, and idles, and returns to idle. The idle always returns to exactly 1,000 rpm at the stop lights (no surging). I have driven the engine in 100 F degree temps this past August and now in the 30's F with no change in the tune. So much better than a carb set up.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-01-06151014.jpg

Here is a link to an under hood; cold start; idle video. The temp was in the upper 30's F when I did the video. The idle speed was 1,000 rpm.

RtK18KQ4ZN4

DaleTx

01-06-2013, 07:25 PM

When I did the dry sump oil system I had to figure out where to mount the remote oil filter. I ended up fabricating a custom bracket that mounted onto the stock hood hinge. The bracket uses the factory fasteners for mounting. This worked good... I didn't have to drill any holes on the inner fender or fire wall. The filter cleared the stock heating duct on the fire wall. I bought the billet aluminum black annodized oil filter mount from Moroso.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/picsjan6020_zps26a625d9.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/picsjan6021_zpsb8a6532f.jpg

View from back side
http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/picsjan6022_zps5cdee709.jpg

DaleTx

01-06-2013, 07:43 PM

I plumbed in a pressure switch into the oil filter mount. The switch turns on if the oil pressure drops to 18 psi. I mounted a large red light in the car so that if I ever have an oil pressure issue the light turns on. This way I don't have to monitor the oil pressure gauge.

Also, I installed an AEM wide band gauge to get real time feedback on the air fuel ratio.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/picsjan6023_zps7d025de9.jpg

Yea that is the original AM Delco radio and factory Tach. Some day I might go FM.....

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/picsjan6003_zpsd63f0721.jpg

I replaced the factory cluster gauges with autometer (originals didn't have any numbers)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/picsjan6004_zps760b2ad5.jpg

preston

01-07-2013, 02:42 PM

Rybar

01-07-2013, 02:58 PM

Again very nice motor Dale, you in Vancouver, BC, Canada or Vancouver, WA?

GregWeld

01-07-2013, 03:25 PM

Lol... nothing like 4 straight months of gray sky's and drizzle. I'm in Vancouver. I run my car at PIR. Might have to check out some tracks up north sometime.
Nutter is a great guy to work with, he's told me a few stories about his drag racing days... do you know him?

I only know of him. Never actually met him

I went to Schumway a few years back. Like 46 years ago! Lol
Yeah I'm still dumb.

When I was 16 and 17 I worked at PIR. We ran Wednesday night 1/8th mile. Back then we called it grudge racing. And of course worked the bigger events as well. Then I traveled with McCulloch and Whipple in '70 and '71

:thumbsup:

DaleTx

01-07-2013, 09:05 PM

I believe what you say about the engine being very driveable but a 10" idle at 1000 rpms falls pretty far outside my desires. I currently pull 16" at 850 rpms and I still find the thing a bit rumpity (mine is a big windsor). But I'm getting older and my daily is a '92 Cadillac so anything feels rumpity to me.

I was curious as I have a driveability issue pulling 4th/5th gear below 2000 rpms and was wondering if my Super Victor intake was part of the issue, so I was interestedin how it drove for you, sounds like it drives pretty good.

I understand… drivability is a very subjective thing. This engine does push the envelope a bit for a street driven naturally aspirated engine. It is a good fit for what I am doing with the car. With all that said… I am surprised how street friendly this engine is. No stumbles on the bottom… very smooth and linear feel.

DaleTx

01-07-2013, 10:27 PM

Again very nice motor Dale, you in Vancouver, BC, Canada or Vancouver, WA?

Thank you. I'm in Vancouver Washington

I only know of him. Never actually met him

I went to Schumway a few years back. Like 46 years ago! Lol
Yeah I'm still dumb.

When I was 16 and 17 I worked at PIR. We ran Wednesday night 1/8th mile. Back then we called it grudge racing. And of course worked the bigger events as well. Then I traveled with McCulloch and Whipple in '70 and '71

:thumbsup:

I know Schumway... I was down the road at Covington (a few years later than you though!)

PIR still runs 1/8th mile on Wednesdays (NHRA bracket racing). I did a father daughter project a couple of years ago and built a Vega drag car for her to race when she was 16. She had great reactions and enjoyed whooping the guys... fun times out there.

I remember Ed "The Ace" McCulloch... don't remember Whipple.

:thumbsup:

DaleTx

01-08-2013, 11:43 PM

For this build I used a set of Kooks 1-7/8” stainless headers. These headers are designed to fit on an LS engine in a Gen 1 Camaro with a stock front sub-frame. Expensive but very high quality... and a perfect fit right out of the box. These headers came with some adjustable engine mounts (Dirty Dingo) but they were bulky and didn’t clear my dry sump oil pump… so I bought some Hooker engine mounts (p/n HOK-12624HKR) 0.5” offset. These mounts fit well and put the engine in the correct position.

The Kooks headers cleared the AGR steering box; pitman arm; and the Z-bar linkage for my mechanically operated clutch. These headers fit better than any I’ve ever used.... good ground clearance to. These headers were built with the LS7 flange to match my heads.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2012-05-12135854-1_zps46298494.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2012-05-12135821-1_zpsa21b2e50-1_zpsd73ce51b.jpg

LS7 flange

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2012-05-12135623-1_zpse92d3d82.jpg

This shows the fit on drivers side and clearance on the steering box.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan6c003_zps92c698d8.jpg

Close up on the steering box. Nice fit, no mods required.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-01-08221503.jpg

:lateral: :cheers:

DaleTx

01-08-2013, 11:46 PM

Got a call from Hurst Driveline Conversions today… my new T56 Magnum 6-speed close ratio trans shipped today :D

I picked up the Hurst cross-member also. any input on which type of bell housing to use?

chr2002ca

01-09-2013, 08:05 AM

frojoe

01-09-2013, 12:43 PM

Rybar and I are also suffering the dismal Pacific NorthWet blues. Great car and nice build!

DaleTx

01-09-2013, 01:36 PM

Nice ride and motor! Welcome to Lat-g. :cheers: I'm switching over to MPFI in a few months and hope to experiences some of the positives you've mentioned about your build with the same. I'm jealous of your steering box clearance with your headers. My BBC isn't so friendly in that department. That's a nice setup you have. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the welcome to Lat-g... this site is great. The fuel injection is the way to go :thumbsup:

Rybar and I are also suffering the dismal Pacific NorthWet blues. Great car and nice build!

Thank you. At least the dismal weather doesn't stop us from working on the cars.

preston

01-09-2013, 01:45 PM

>At least the dismal weather doesn't stop us from working on the cars.

Tell me about it - I don't have a shop, just a large carport, and last night I'm out there cleco'ing on body panels with raw steel patches and the rain and mist are swirling around me, waiting in between gusts to tack stuff together. Yeah I feel like an idiot but what am I supposed to do ? Not work on the car ?

(Well obviously I have shop, just not for the car itself)

DaleTx

01-09-2013, 11:37 PM

Which bell housing are most guys here using here for mounting a T56 transmission to an LS engine in a Gen 1 Camaro? Also, which shifter… the stock Tremec or the short throw aftermarket shifters like black jack or white lightning?

I’m picking up a new T56 Magnum tomorrow to replace the Muncie 4 speed.

Ron in SoCal

01-10-2013, 07:58 AM

Dale I purchased a Quicktime bell for my LS/T56. An aftermarket shifter is enticing, but I'm wait to stop hearing horror stories. The Tremec shifter works pretty well compared to a Pro 5.0 on a TKO.

71RS/SS396

01-10-2013, 08:15 AM

I'm using the same as Ron QT bell with the block saver and Tremec shifter.

DaleTx

01-10-2013, 09:52 PM

Dale I purchased a Quicktime bell for my LS/T56. An aftermarket shifter is enticing, but I'm wait to stop hearing horror stories. The Tremec shifter works pretty well compared to a Pro 5.0 on a TKO.

Thanks Ron. I looked through your build thread... great job, beautiful car!

I'm using the same as Ron QT bell with the block saver and Tremec shifter.

Thanks, nice 71 :thumbsup:

I'm starting to gather the parts for the transmission swap. I just received the new Tremec T56 Magnum today. For the flywheel and clutch I'm using a Katech aluminum flywheel, and a GM ZR1 Corvette twin disc clutch (modified for 20% increased grip). The Z-bar mechanical clutch linkage will be replaced with a hydraulic GM unit.

Got on a waiting list in mid December and received my transmission today :cheers:
T56 Magnum close ratio. 2.66 first gear.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-01-10122212.jpg

Katech aluminum flywheel

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2012-05-12184036-1_zps7279eb1a.jpg

Corvette ZR1 twin disc clutch. This is the best clutch I've ever used.. great grip and very smooth engagement.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2012-05-12184314-1_zps988faf3a.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2012-05-12184242-1_zps59baaf43.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2012-06-25191613-1_zpsedd5b343.jpg

GregWeld

01-10-2013, 10:09 PM

Thank you. I'm in Vancouver Washington

I know Schumway... I was down the road at Covington (a few years later than you though!)

PIR still runs 1/8th mile on Wednesdays (NHRA bracket racing). I did a father daughter project a couple of years ago and built a Vega drag car for her to race when she was 16. She had great reactions and enjoyed whooping the guys... fun times out there.

I remember Ed "The Ace" McCulloch... don't remember Whipple.

:thumbsup:

All of my wife's and my family are still in Portland so I come down once in awhile. I love to do Wednesday afternoon at Beaches shows.... and we always watch the drag racing. Tons of cheap fun!

Kool father daughter good times! :cheers:

DaleTx

01-10-2013, 11:09 PM

All of my wife's and my family are still in Portland so I come down once in awhile. I love to do Wednesday afternoon at Beaches shows.... and we always watch the drag racing. Tons of cheap fun!

Kool father daughter good times! :cheers:

The Beaches car show is very popular now… great place to hang out on Wednesday afternoons. I have some friends that race there every Wednesday ("Ol Gold")… fun times!

:cheers:

GregWeld

01-11-2013, 08:30 AM

Ol Gold is AWESOME.... that thing just hooks up --- and runs! Love that car!

KPC67

01-11-2013, 09:09 AM

Nice pieces, did you buy just the flywheel from katech or the whole clutch/flywheel set up?
I am sort of kicking tires on different clutch setups at the minute.

DaleTx

01-11-2013, 01:42 PM

Nice pieces, did you buy just the flywheel from katech or the whole clutch/flywheel set up?
I am sort of kicking tires on different clutch setups at the minute.

I bought the parts together as a package... ZR1 clutch, aluminum flywheel, slave cylinder, and hardware. I drive the car a lot on the street and was looking for something with smooth engagement... this is it. The clutch is very smooth, no rattles and has a 960 Lb-Ft torque capacity. (i bought the kit with the extra 20% capacity)

DaleTx

01-12-2013, 12:48 AM

Ol Gold is AWESOME.... that thing just hooks up --- and runs! Love that car!

Yea... you just don't expect to see a big old 39 Chevy sedan launch and hook up like it does. The engine is naturally aspirated 1,000+HP... Cool car!

Sieg

01-12-2013, 07:45 AM

Dale I purchased a Quicktime bell for my LS/T56. An aftermarket shifter is enticing, but I'm wait to stop hearing horror stories. The Tremec shifter works pretty well compared to a Pro 5.0 on a TKO.

Dale - Hurst has a re-engineered the Blackjack shifter with a seal and it should be available in February.

In the forward mount position (for stock console fitment) the Hurst and White Lightning will leak, the later being the worst in my testing.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-n6Q7q62/0/M/i-n6Q7q62-M.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4ZKpDgG/0/M/i-4ZKpDgG-M.jpg

Mounting in the rear position either will weep a little but not enough to make a drip in 5k miles or so IMO.

The rear position is better proximity to the steering wheel for track use but you can't retain the stock console insert. I fabbed a sheet metal console plate until the new shifter is released.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FpmR6Dc/1/M/i-FpmR6Dc-M.jpg

You're going to love that trans it's a major addition to the car. When reading your build thread this morning I was thinking all that car needs is a close ratio T56 mag and possibly a Watts link. :thumbsup:

DaleTx

01-12-2013, 11:01 AM

Dale - Hurst has a re-engineered the Blackjack shifter with a seal and it should be available in February.

In the forward mount position (for stock console fitment) the Hurst and White Lightning will leak, the later being the worst in my testing.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-n6Q7q62/0/M/i-n6Q7q62-M.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4ZKpDgG/0/M/i-4ZKpDgG-M.jpg

Mounting in the rear position either will weep a little but not enough to make a drip in 5k miles or so IMO.

The rear position is better proximity to the steering wheel for track use but you can't retain the stock console insert. I fabbed a sheet metal console plate until the new shifter is released.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FpmR6Dc/1/M/i-FpmR6Dc-M.jpg

You're going to love that trans it's a major addition to the car. When reading your build thread this morning I was thinking all that car needs is a close ratio T56 mag and possibly a Watts link. :thumbsup:

Thanks Sieg....great info :thumbsup:

I'll plan to use the stock Tremec shifter for now.... maybe try the Blackjack later on after the fix. My Muncie trans always leaked oil and I want to get away from that.

Yea I can't wait to get the new trans in. I ran about a dozen track days with the Muncie and never had any issues... the first time on the track with the new engine I seized up third gear on the main shaft... this caused the rear end to lock up at about 80 mph! Honestly I just don't trust the Muncie after that... time for some new technology.

I can't wait for that first time behind the wheel with the new trans :D

(ordered QT bell today)

DaleTx

01-15-2013, 08:09 PM

For my engine we went with a 150 Amp Powermaster alternator… a billet aluminum alternator mount, and a 3-1/2” diameter billet aluminum 6 rib drive pulley.

The stock pulley on the Powermaster alternator was 2” diameter. The engine builder changed the pulley from 2” diameter to 3-1/2” diameter so the alternator would run at the correct speed when I am running higher RPM’s on the track. He also provided a 2” diameter pulley and a smaller diameter serpentine belt set up for street only use.

So far I have run the 3-1/2” diameter on the track and on the street with no issues. I did notice that when I’m in traffic on hot days with the electric fan running full time, the battery voltage drops slightly. Under normal driving conditions it's fine.

Billet aluminum bracket with alternator mounted high on passenger side of engine

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan15a002_zps914f5cd8.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan15a001_zpsed6c5ed8.jpg

Here is a shot of the stock 2" diameter pulley in comparison to the 3-1/2" pulley.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan15004_zps8fdb4d5e.jpg

DaleTx

01-15-2013, 08:18 PM

I have always had problems with the stock power steering pump boiling over when I do the HPDE events (makes a mess!!). For this build I upgraded to a KRC racing power steering pump and billet aluminum mount. The KRC pump has a 6-1/2” diameter pulley… my stock Chevy power steering pump had a 5-1/2” diameter pulley.

So far I have done one HPDE event with the KRC unit with no problems (no boil over). My educated guess is that the stock unit is not designed to run high RPM’s for extended periods. The speed of the pump is too fast and that creates extra heat. The KRC unit is better suited to running at higher RPM with the larger diameter pulley. This slows down the pump speed which helps to reduce power steering fluid temps. So far so good...no leaks the last time out.

The power steering pump is mounted high on drivers side of engine.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan15a004_zpsda8ef800.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan15a005_zps54c22e8c.jpg

Here is a shot of the 6-1/2" diameter 6 rib KRC pulley. The mounting bracket was made by the engine builder.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan15002_zps62fdefeb.jpg

DFRESH

01-15-2013, 09:17 PM

DaleTx

01-16-2013, 10:39 PM

Welcome to the site! Great car--and the motor sounds sweet---especially for an LS motor. I think you will find a more responsive audience here, especially since it's a 69 Camaro---we only have a few of those on this site.

Looking forward to more updates and some additional track photos when you have them.

Doug

Thanks Doug!

Here is more detail on the 4-barrel TB set up. The throttle body is just an air valve on this set up. The fuel is injected into the intake ports on the heads through the injectors mounted on the base on the single plane intake.

We used a FAST 4-barrel TB on a GM LS7 single plane intake. The butterfly's open inward on the primary and secondary side, and are manually controlled rather than drive by wire. The arm on the TB has multiple mounting positions so you can control how fast the butterfly's open. I built a custom throttle linkage setup that attaches to the stock Camaro accelerator pedal. This worked out well...the throttle has a good progressive feel and does not come on too fast and is totally adjustable.

The FAST throttle body has a TPS (throttle position sensor) and IAC (idle air control) built in. We installed a MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor inside the single plane intake and an IAT (intake air temp) sensor in the air cleaner base. The engine is set up with a speed density tune.

Homemade throttle return spring bracket mounts to the front two screws on the TB.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan16010_zpsd00e802d.jpg

The homemade throttle linkage (red rod) connects to the stock Camaro gas pedal

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan16a001_zps8cc072fd.jpg

"idle air control" on the left, "throttle position sensor" on the right

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan16005_zpse14d24b2.jpg

Here is a shot of the "intake air temp" sensor in the air cleaner base

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan16a009_zpse5bf4ade.jpg

The bell housing for the T56 is being delivered tomorrow. This weekend I plan to start on the trans swap (muncie to T56 Mag)

:cheers:

DaleTx

01-20-2013, 06:01 PM

We used FAST 58# injectors for the port fuel injection. The engine builder machined the GM LS7 intake to accept the injectors and made some custom mounts for the fuel rails. We found out later that GM sells a LS7 single plane intakes with the injector ports already machined. This would have saved some time if we had known.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan20c001_zps63ec328e-1_zps87e99356.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan20a005_zps8d02fe79.jpg

I used GM truck coils for this build. The truck coils have aluminum heat sinks to help dissipate heat.... a nice feature.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan20a006_zpsd927fb76-1_zpsa45d3093.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan20006_zpsb87e7e10-1_zpsf628e60b.jpg

I made a custom bracket to mount the GM truck coils to the Katech valve covers. The brackets are thin gauge steel and were cut out on a laser and then formed... I plan to make a new set from aluminum and then either polish or have them anodized red to dress it up a little under the hood.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan20a012_zpsf4ad8b4f-1_zps44118bab.jpg

Ron in SoCal

01-20-2013, 07:02 PM

Dale thx for posting. Not much info out there on conventional intakes on an LS motor. I doubt you'll max out your inatke air requirements (KPI?) with that set up :thumbsup:

DaleTx

01-21-2013, 08:22 PM

Dale thx for posting. Not much info out there on conventional intakes on an LS motor. I doubt you'll max out your inatke air requirements (KPI?) with that set up :thumbsup:

Thanks Ron. It’s fun to try something different and I’m glad to share the info here. I couldn't be happier with the single plane set up on my LS engine, no regrets.

The LS style intakes work great... but the single planes also work well when set up with the right parts. No problem with air flow on this set up.

DaleTx

01-21-2013, 09:25 PM

I started working on the transmission swap from the Muncie 4-speed to the T56 Magnum this past weekend. I have had a lot of issues with the Muncie lately and can't wait to get the new trans in (oil leaks & syncro problems)

I bought a kit from Hurst Driveline Conversions that included a T56 Magnum close ratio trans, cross member, speedo cable, and some wiring. When I bought the ZR1 clutch kit it came with the clutch, aluminum flywheel, and a GM hydraulic slave cylinder.

TUET11009 Tremec trans

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan19008_zps64f5bdd8-1_zpsd67d8571.jpg

GM slave cylinder

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan19022_zpsbb0287a4-1_zps86e50fcc.jpg

Quick Time steel bell housing, Hurst cross member

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan19019_zpsead3e6b1-1_zps3f244a34.jpg

I'm planning to use a GM clutch master cylinder and a mounting bracket on the firewall. Not sure which GM clutch master to use?

Also, I'm wondering what to do about the reverse lock out mechanism that is connected to the Muncie trans. The lockout is set up so that when you put the car in reverse and turn the key off, the steering wheel locks. Not sure how to handle this.

Any help with these questions would be appreciated, Thanks :thumbsup:

:lateral:

Sieg

01-21-2013, 09:54 PM

waynieZ

01-21-2013, 10:52 PM

Very Nice Dale.

DaleTx

01-21-2013, 11:47 PM

Very Nice Dale.

Thank you Wayne

Dale you're going to love that tranny!

Call Jim Goodlad @ Hurst Tech, he's the previous owner of the original company and a great guy. He should be able to give good honest guidance on the clutch master. He also own's a '69 Z28. :thumbsup:

I don't have any trans lock-out connected and the column lock still functions. Here's a pic that shows the position of mine (original automatic car) in a position that works........at least when I shut the ignition down when the fire erupted I could still steer! http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XSjWZSK/0/X2/i-XSjWZSK-X2.jpg

Thanks Sieg

Here is a picture of my steering column lock tab and the rod that comes up from a pivot mount on the sub frame. Maybe I just disconnect the rod and then anchor the tab so it can't rotate.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan21a002_zpsfcf6aaad-1_zps3b1c8a43.jpg

Sieg

01-22-2013, 12:06 AM

Looks like mine is higher than yours in that pic. Anchoring wouldn't hurt, I've never touched mine in 20+ years.......But my header bolts are safety wired! :sieg:

Experiment and see how it functions. :thumbsup:

DaleTx

01-22-2013, 12:30 AM

Sounds like a plan... Thanks Sieg :thumbsup:

(I can't believe you have you own smiley... nice)

Flash68

01-22-2013, 12:54 AM

Sounds like a plan... Thanks Sieg :thumbsup:

(I can't believe you have you own smiley... nice)

He's pretty.... um.... special... around here. :peepwall:

DaleTx

01-22-2013, 07:04 PM

Dale you're going to love that tranny!

Call Jim Goodlad @ Hurst Tech, he's the previous owner of the original company and a great guy. He should be able to give good honest guidance on the clutch master. He also own's a '69 Z28. :thumbsup:

I don't have any trans lock-out connected and the column lock still functions. Here's a pic that shows the position of mine (original automatic car) in a position that works........at least when I shut the ignition down when the fire erupted I could still steer! http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XSjWZSK/0/X2/i-XSjWZSK-X2.jpg

Today I talked to Jim Goodlad @ Hurst Tech to get some help. Jim said the rods that connect from the Muncie trans to the tab on the steering column (reverse lockout) should be removed and stored. The function of the tab on the steering column is to lock the trans in reverse until the key is turned on. The tab on the steering column does not have anything to do with locking the steering wheel.

The steering wheel lock is controlled by a pin that is actuated with the key.... so no worries about the tab on the steering column causing the steering wheel to lock. He did say that if the tab was in the wrong position it would prevent the key from turning to the off position. This guy really knows his stuff.... you're right.

Also... Hurst has a hydraulic clutch kit for the 69 Camaro that has billet aluminum mounting bracket for the clutch master, and all hardware to do the swap from mechanical to hydraulic. Hurst has been great to deal with... kudos to them.

Thanks for the tip Sieg :thumbsup:

DaleTx

01-23-2013, 09:53 PM

I’m taking a break from the transmission install… the temps have been below freezing all week (must be nice to live in California :relax: ). This weekend when temps warm up (40’s) I’ll pull the Muncie and get started on the swap to the T56 Magnum. Today I ordered the parts to do the swap from the stock Z-bar mechanical clutch linkage to a hydraulic set up.

For cooling the engine I used a single electric fan setup and a Be Cool 28” x 18” aluminum two core radiator. The fan is a Ford Lincoln Mark 8 type with an output somewhere around 3,500 to 4,000 CFM. I used the original 69 Camaro fan shroud that came with my car, and fabricated an adaptor bracket to mount the electric fan inside the stock shroud. This set up worked great… I drove the car this past summer in 100+ degree weather in traffic and never had any issues with over-heating. The Ford electric fan has an S-blade design and is super quiet… very nice. The fan is triggered to turn on at a pre-set temperature programmed into the GM ECM.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-01-23182915-1_zpsbef33471.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-01-23185853-1_zpscdc19930.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2012-07-25201031-1_zpsd3bffba3.jpg

For a side project I made some aluminum billet wheel centers for my Vintage Wheel Works V-45’s. I didn’t like the tall plastic ones that came with the wheels.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan23a001_zpsaecd6593-1_zps5ae46265.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan23a004_zpsac230421-1_zpse46f4605.jpg

I used stainless steel fasteners to attach the wheel centers... they need a little more polishing.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-01-23195943-1_zpsdf29d6a5.jpg

Sieg

01-23-2013, 10:42 PM

DaleTx

01-23-2013, 11:14 PM

Here's another item that wouldn't hurt cooling, I'm ready to pull the trigger on one.

The other "trick" the Steilow use on Red Devil but not on Mayhem was this set up: http://www.techafx.com/content/1969-camaro-front-spoiler-kit

I built my own, pics are buried somewhere in my thread. :D

Did you make those centers or have them machined?

Like the fan set-up :thumbsup:

Thank you

I like the spoiler design... the open center would get more outside air moving through the engine compartment... good idea. I'll check back in your thread for the one you built.

I made the centers myself... turned them on an engine lathe and then used a bandsaw to cut the outside shape... then filed and sanded the edges by hand. It took a lot of time to make 4 of them.

I sit behind a computer all day so it's good to get out in the garage, work on the car and make some things :thumbsup:

Sieg

01-24-2013, 04:45 AM

Thank you

I like the spoiler design... the open center would get more outside air moving through the engine compartment... good idea. I'll check back in your thread for the one you built.

I made the centers myself... turned them on an engine lathe and then used a bandsaw to cut the outside shape... then filed and sanded the edges by hand. It took a lot of time to make 4 of them.

I sit behind a computer all day so it's good to get out in the garage, work on the car and make some things :thumbsup:

Found it: http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showpost.php4?p=408272&postcount=37

Old school fabrication is good therapy. Nice work! :thumbsup:

chr2002ca

01-24-2013, 08:25 AM

When I bought the ZR1 clutch kit it came with the clutch, aluminum flywheel, and a GM hydraulic slave cylinder.

GM slave cylinder

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan19022_zpsbb0287a4-1_zps86e50fcc.jpg

Hi Dale. I'm actually installing a T56 Magnum into my '69 next month(on a BBC), so we're in the same boat. I have the transmission and the same bellhousing as yours sitting on my garage floor also. I went with a Speedtech crossmember and I'll be using a Centerforce DYAD clutch. I have the Keisler/Wilwood master cylinder and firewall mount. You can see pics of that in my build thread. I've been told that the GM collar and hydraulic throwout bearing will work fine for my application, similar to what you have. When you ordered your ZR-1 kit, did it have individual part numbers for the hydraulic throwout bearing and collar? If so, could you share them? If not, what was the part # on your clutch kit? Thanks in advance for anything you an share on that.

I look forward to your write-up about this installation. I'll being doing a similar write-up so maybe we can compare notes and help each other out.

chr2002ca

01-24-2013, 11:47 AM

I think I finally found the part number on that slave cylinder. It's 24237569. Not sure if you thought about this, but I've heard remote bleeder lines can be very helpful when dealing with these hydraulic setups. I found a few sources for these that plug into this particular slave cylinder in case you're interested:

http://www.texas-speed.com/p-3051-tick-performance-remote-clutch-speedbleeder-line-for-2005-corvette-z06.aspx?gclid=CI2FmubPgbUCFawWMgodaGwALQ
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_1009_dual_disc_clutch_system/viewall.html

DaleTx

01-24-2013, 06:49 PM

Hi Dale. I'm actually installing a T56 Magnum into my '69 next month(on a BBC), so we're in the same boat. I have the transmission and the same bellhousing as yours sitting on my garage floor also. I went with a Speedtech crossmember and I'll be using a Centerforce DYAD clutch. I have the Keisler/Wilwood master cylinder and firewall mount. You can see pics of that in my build thread. I've been told that the GM collar and hydraulic throwout bearing will work fine for my application, similar to what you have. When you ordered your ZR-1 kit, did it have individual part numbers for the hydraulic throwout bearing and collar? If so, could you share them? If not, what was the part # on your clutch kit? Thanks in advance for anything you an share on that.

I look forward to your write-up about this installation. I'll being doing a similar write-up so maybe we can compare notes and help each other out.

Chris, Thanks for the information on the remote bleeder line... I will definitely go with that set up. The part number for the ZR1 clutch kit I bought from Katech is KAT-A6184. The part number you listed for the hydraulic throwout bearing is correct. This throwout bearing is shorter to allow for the extra width of the ZR1 twin disc clutch. I took a couple pictures that show all the numbers on the GM throwout bearing that I received with the clutch kit. This weekend I should find out how the stack up comes out.

That would be great to compare notes as we go along on our builds... I will be following your thread :thumbsup:. Also, I have some pictures of a cold air intake that I built to draw air from the outside through the cowl induction hood that I will post up later.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan24005_zps6ab265ea.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan24004_zps431dcabb.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan24006_zps4aac12bf.jpg

DaleTx

01-24-2013, 11:23 PM

Found it: http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showpost.php4?p=408272&postcount=37

Old school fabrication is good therapy. Nice work! :thumbsup:

Nice job on the spoiler modifications on your car... that's a great idea. Do you have any pictures looking at it from underneath? I was just wondering how wide the air gap is in the center of the spoiler. Sounds like it helped reduce the temps under the hood quite a bit.

Sieg

01-25-2013, 01:06 AM

Nice job on the spoiler modifications on your car... that's a great idea. Do you have any pictures looking at it from underneath? I was just wondering how wide the air gap is in the center of the spoiler. Sounds like it helped reduce the temps under the hood quite a bit.
It dropped the temp roughly 5-10* in our weather. The opening is 25.5" close to the outside edges of the turn signal lenses. A closeout panel/show panel should improve cooling by channeling a little more are through the radiator. The fiberglass screen material on the backside of my grille is to minimize bug splatter. This pic should give you reference points:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wsNBXmx/0/L/i-wsNBXmx-L.jpg

DaleTx

01-25-2013, 11:26 PM

It dropped the temp roughly 5-10* in our weather. The opening is 25.5" close to the outside edges of the turn signal lenses. A closeout panel/show panel should improve cooling by channeling a little more are through the radiator. The fiberglass screen material on the backside of my grille is to minimize bug splatter

Sieg, Thanks for the details on the front spoiler mods... and other ideas you've brought up... I appreciate it.

The past few days I have been reading up on the build threads here at Lat-G. Lots of good stuff going on here.... great site :thumbsup:

Tomorrow the Muncie is coming out and the T56 Magnum is going in :D

Sieg

01-26-2013, 12:52 AM

Tomorrow the Muncie is coming out and the T56 Magnum is going in :D
If you pull that off "tomorrow" :bow:

PS - I don't recommend using a crowbar to lever the subframe down to fit the cross member. :sieg:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-z9WHmLs/0/S/i-z9WHmLs-S.jpg http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-rVwCMxw/0/S/i-rVwCMxw-S.jpg http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wrtmnp9/0/S/i-wrtmnp9-S.jpg

DaleTx

01-26-2013, 10:40 PM

:sieg: That's a nasty cut... I made it through the day with no wounds :)

Made a lot of progress today... but ran into some fitment issues installing the new trans. I started out by removing the driver and passenger seats and the center console. I wanted to be prepared in case I had to modify the tunnel.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26b001_zps4374738e.jpg

Next I pulled out the driveline, crossmember, and the Hurst shifter.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26b003_zpsa0d6c1fd.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26b007_zps265987c6.jpg

This is a shot of the cutout as the car came from the factory. They used a torch to cut the hole for the shifter. The writing with the white marker was done on the assembly line. I bought this car 30 years ago from my parents neighbor who bought the car brand new. I was the first one to ever take the console off.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26d001_zpsdd18ff95.jpg

Next I pulled the Muncie trans out. I use a transmission jack with a custom made wood support that keeps the transmission from rotating. I have taken this trans out so many times because of clutch problems, oil leaks, and syncro problems, that I rigged this up to make the job easier.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26001_zpsf9416bcb.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26003_zps5bec3b86.jpg

This is a Muncie trans with an Autogear Supercase. The Autogear case has needle bearing pivots for the shift linkage pivots, a thick cast iron mid-plate for extra bearing support, and a thicker casting in front for more bearing support. This case is designed to handle more HP than a stock Muncie.

Unfortunately the internals failed this time around and I siezed up third gear on the main shaft the first time out on the track with the new engine. I have spent so much money modifying and fixing this trans that I could have paid for the new T56. Anyway... I am glad to finally have the new trans. It will be nice to have the new technology, crisp shifting, and the overdrive gears for some longer road trips in the future :D

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26005_zpsb0f47742.jpg

Here is a shot of the bell housing... I lowered the engine down in the back and was able to reach all the fasteners to remove it.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26011_zpsf0f46c1d.jpg

This is a shot of the ZR1 Corvette clutch.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26016_zps2a872e0f.jpg

I have more coming on the problems with fitment

:cheers:

DaleTx

01-27-2013, 10:48 AM

Yesterday I ran into problems installing the new transmision. The dimensions on the new set up do not match the old set up. The distance from the face of the bellhousing to the face of the throwout bearing are different by about 7/8". There is not enough clearance for the clutch to clear the new throwout bearing.

Here is a picture of the old set up with the mechanical throwout bearing

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26038_zps09c2ae09.jpg

Here is the new set up with the hydraulic throwout bearing

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26039_zps81c5165f.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26022_zps6bbfd9a4.jpg

Here is a picture from under the car that shows the depth of the clutch from the back of the engine to the tip of the fingers on the clutch. The measurement is about 4-1/8"

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26033_zps42d09ae1.jpg

This is a picture from the face of the bellhousing to the face of the hydraulic throwout bearing pushed back as far as it goes. I'm not sure what to do now? Either the bellhousing has to be spaced out or I need a lower profile hydraulic throwout bearing. I'm not sure why the stack up didn't work. The throwout bearing in the kit was supposed to be sized to work with the ZR1 twin disc clutch.

It seems like if I could space the bellhousing out about 7/8" this would solve the problem.

Any thoughts or ideas on what to do would be appreciated, Thanks.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26029_zpsa110c14f.jpg

DaleTx

01-27-2013, 11:09 AM

I re-positioned the Tremec shifter to the forward position... so I removed the shifter.

Now I can see how the aftermarket shifters that don't have any seals would leak oil. In the forward position the shifter is directly above the gear and would have a direct spray of oil. I'm suprised they would have designed and sold a shifter with no seal :headscratch:

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26020_zps1b562585.jpg

Here is a shot of the Tremec shifter from underneath. This shifter has a nice designed oil seal.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26019_zpsc2c609d4.jpg

I went with the forward position so the shifter would fit through the console.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26025_zps99c6c577.jpg

71RS/SS396

01-27-2013, 02:08 PM

I have a completely different clutch but this may be a solution
http://bowlertransmissions.com/p/440/hydraulic-throw-out-bearing-adjustable. I think if you start using spacers between the bell housing you may have pilot bearing issues.

Sieg

01-27-2013, 02:47 PM

Dale,

Here's a couple hints on the stack issue:

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showpost.php4?p=424902&postcount=212

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showpost.php4?p=424921&postcount=216

chr2002ca

01-27-2013, 05:27 PM

If you pull the TO bearing off, does the transmission install properly into the pilot bearing? I'm going with the DYAD clutch and I'm pretty sure the deck height for that clutch(crank to fingers) is about 3", so if you're ZR-1 clutch is about 4", I can see where you'd have that 7/8" clearance difference. It does appear in the links Sieg provided that that there is a bellhousing/trans spacer for your situation, but that pushes your transmission further back and could cause other fitment issues. Just more fun with putting these darn things together. Can't wait to try to put mine in soon.

Sieg

01-27-2013, 06:40 PM

I'm not sure if Mark built that spacer for Mayhem or how they handled the pilot bearing/input shaft depth issue. My guess is he'd help if asked.

DaleTx

01-27-2013, 06:44 PM

This is getting a little confusing... but it looks like there is a solution to make the T56 Magnum transmission and ZR1 Twin Disc clutch fit properly using the GM hydraulic throwout bearing (pn:24237569) and the GM pilot bearing (pn:12557583).

Here is a picture of the set up on the bell housing with the Muncie transmission. This set up was installed in the car and worked perfectly. This is a picture of the relationship between the end of the input shaft on the transmission and the flange on the bell housing. The dimension is 3/16”… this is what worked. At this dimension the input shaft on the transmission slipped into the pilot bearing about 3/4".

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan27a001_zps892180d0.jpg

Here is a picture of the new set up with the Quicktime LS bell housing and the T56 Magnum transmission. The dimension from the end of the input shaft on the transmission to the flange on the bell housing is ~ 1”. If I use the 0.850” thick spacer from D&D performance that Mark Stielow on Mayhem then everything works… the distance from the flange on the bell to the end of the transmission input shaft goes to ~ 3/16”. The input shaft from the T56 Magnum will be the correct length to fit into the pilot bearing, and the GM hydraulic throwout bearing will have exactly the right clearance in relation to the tip of the fingers on the ZR1 twin disc clutch.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan27003_zps05ed3ea7.jpg

Each combination of parts always requires a little head scratching… but it looks like this solution will work.

Chris, if your clutch is about 3" thick then you can use the same parts minus the 0.850" spacer, as long as there is no difference in the position of the pilot bearing between the Gen I and Gen IV engines.

Thanks Tim & Scott :thumbsup:

chr2002ca

01-27-2013, 07:39 PM

DaleTx

01-27-2013, 08:22 PM

That is weird. Your LS bellhousing(RM-8020?) is supposed to have the same depth as mine(RM-6023) for my BBC, which would be 5.555 inches. However, I just went out into the garage and measured the depth on mine and it's exactly 6.0 inches. So I'd like to send a big shot out to Quicktime for providing incorrect specs on their bellhousing. As a result of this extra .445 inches of depth, the input shaft on mine only sticks out about 5/8" past the bellhousing, and it would only be about 1/4" when I add the engine plate. So that should be okay for me when I mate it to the engine and pilot bearing. If it's too long, I can file down the shaft slightly. However, for you, it seems like you'll need that spacer in between your transmission and bellhousing. Hope it's not too pricey and is readily available. If the shaft doesn't quite reach the pilot bearing, I believe there are 'extended' bearings.

I do have the Quicktime RM-8020 bellhousing and it measures 5.55”.

If I can get the 0.850” spacer from D&D Performance then everything will fit together. The input shaft on the T56 will slip into the pilot bearing about ¾”. Hopefully I can get one…. I’ll find out tomorrow. I think I'll have to shift my engine forward about 1" now. Hopefully your install goes smoother.

After that first drive with all the new stuff all the problems are forgotten... Good luck getting all your parts to fit together :thumbsup:

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Jan26057_zps6829a3cf.jpg

DaleTx

02-01-2013, 09:22 PM

Today is a good day :thumbsup:

It's Friday... I have the next two days off... and the last of the parts I need to continue the T56 install showed up on the door step :D

Today I received the billet aluminum spacer that goes in between the T56 Magnum and the Quick Time bell housing. This spacer was needed to allow for the extra thickness of the ZR-1 Twin disc clutch. The spacer has dowel pins and fit up perfectly to the QT bell and the T56 Mag trans. The spacer is 0.89" thick.

I checked all the dimensions with the spacer installed, and the play between the clutch forks and the hydraulic throwout bearing is perfect... and the input shaft on the transmission will slide into the pilot bearing on the crank about 3/4".

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb1a002_zps59d26fe8.jpg

The dowels pins align the spacer to the bell housing. The dowel pins on the transmission align with holes on the other side of the spacer. The spacer is designed to keep all of the parts in alignment.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb1a003_zpsda2653c6.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb1008_zps0af20982.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb1022_zps986fcf84.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb1012_zps26d7231f.jpg

Here is a shot of the GM ZR-1 hydraulic throwout bearing with a remote bleeder (4ft long) attached. The guy that did all my plumbing for the dry sump pump made up the remote bleeder from parts.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb1007_zpse7deba22.jpg

Earlier in the week I received the kit to convert from the mechanical Z-Bar clutch set up to the Hydraulic clutch.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb1006_zps0cb54504.jpg

The remaining issues to deal with will be the tunnel mods and cross member mods. The spacer will push the trans back an inch so I'm pretty sure the crossmember won't fit.

:cheers:

Sieg

02-01-2013, 09:33 PM

Looks like you're on a roll Dale! :woot: :woot: :G-Dub:

DaleTx

02-01-2013, 10:12 PM

Looks like you're on a roll Dale! :woot: :woot: :G-Dub:

Thanks Sieg.... how is the engine tune coming along?

waynieZ

02-01-2013, 10:13 PM

Looks like you got it. nice set up.

Sieg

02-01-2013, 10:17 PM

Thanks Sieg.... how is the engine tune coming along?
Haven't had a chance to drive it........weather and kid's are crimping my style! :D Hopefully tomorrow.

garickman

02-02-2013, 09:16 AM

Earlier in the week I received the kit to convert from the mechanical Z-Bar clutch set up to the Hydraulic clutch.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb1006_zps0cb54504.jpg

Project looks great. Is this whole clutch set up from Tilton?

DaleTx

02-02-2013, 09:46 AM

Looks like you got it. nice set up.

Thanks Wayne... look forward to updates on your build :thumbsup:

Project looks great. Is this whole clutch set up from Tilton?

Thanks

I bought the kit complete from Hurst Driveline and it came with the Tilton master cylinder. Also, the kit had the right fitting to plug directly into the quick disconnect fitting on the GM throwout bearing. I bought their kit minus the throwout bearing.

fleetus macmullitz

02-19-2013, 07:40 PM

DaleTx

02-19-2013, 09:38 PM

Dale,

Got curious today about your build when I saw one of your posts in Ron's Dead Pool thread.

Enjoyed the good tech posted in this build from you and others. Impressive power #'s on that very healthy sounding LS2. Nice to see a single plane being used as well.

Some Ol Gold. :cool:

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/wnyjazz/old-gold-715911_zps7a261b1b.jpg

Thanks Skip

That’s a great picture of Ol' Gold!

I’m really happy with the results of the engine build. Trying different combinations is the fun part. The LS7 heads are a great design, and worked well with the single plane intake.

I have the T56 Magnum trans and hydraulic clutch installed now… It was a much bigger job than I expected. Using the ZR1 twin disc clutch complicated things a bit. I took a bunch of pictures along the way and will do an update soon.

Glad to see the Muncie go…

:cheers:

DaleTx

02-19-2013, 11:41 PM

Over the past few weeks I have been working on installing the new T56 Magnum transmission and hydraulic clutch kit.

My engine is set back close to the firewall and angled down 2.5 degrees. The car has solid aluminum stock height body bushings. I ended up having to cut a large section out of the tunnel to fit the transmission.

Here is a shot from underneath. First, I mounted the bell housing and spacer on the back of the engine to get an idea of where to cut the tunnel.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb9005_zps39bb6a29.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb9006_zps97f36a45.jpg

I spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out the best way to cut the tunnel to minimize the fabrication required later on.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb10007_zpse367d2f5.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb10021_zps9f080ac9.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb10019_zps46ebd64b.jpg

Next, I got the transmission prepped to go in. I mounted the remote bleeder, and used a tubing bender to make adjustments to the hard plumbing for the hydraulic throw out bearing to make sure it would tuck up in the tunnel.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb10028_zpsac468724.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb10029_zps1cbff3d7.jpg

Next, I checked the run out on the bell housing to make sure it was within spec. The bell housing was within just a few thousands of an inch.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb19001_zps88baf332.jpg

Now it was time for the install. First I slid the transmission under the car. Next...from inside the car I lifted the transmission up on the jack. This method worked well. The T56 is quite a bit heavier than the old Muncie trans. I could bench press the old Muncie but not the T56.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb19009_zps84bdec13.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb19014_zps0402b765.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb19013_zps7b12623b.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb19017_zps9d103296.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb19022_zps7de254ed.jpg

Next I mounted up the new crossmember and transmission mount pad. When I check the angle of the engine it was exactly 2.5 degrees.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb19023_zpse8ce43c6.jpg

Next up will be the installation of the hydraulic clutch... I learned some new information about the plumbing fittings required for the ZR1 hydraulic throw out bearing.

:cheers:

Sieg

02-19-2013, 11:54 PM

GregWeld

02-20-2013, 05:14 AM

Looks good Dale!

I agree with Sieg -- 'cause it's about the same amount of fab work to give yourself some breathing room on that tranny.

The shot of Old Gold is awesome! Love that car. You have to hear it and see it run to understand just how well this car functions. It's just so "solid". It leaves hard and pulls hard and it never bogs - burbles - or skips a beat. Hard to describe really... until you witness it.

Dale -- if you need some sheetmetal fab help... you might contact Tim Bruning - he's there on your side of the river and has a fantastic home shop as well as mad skills.

PM or email me if you want his contact info. His son posts under TJBRUNING
You should get to know him regardless of whether or not you need his help. :thumbsup:

DaleTx

02-20-2013, 02:46 PM

You've been having some kind of fun! That tunnel cut line looks familiar. Make sure you end up with enough clearance in the bell and tunnel to accommodate the torque twist of the motor and trans in your mounts. My engine is solid mounted and under-powered unlike yours. I didn't want to hear those shift plate bolts contacting the top of the tunnel! :thumbsup:

Thanks Sieg!

Good point... I just want to do this once.

When I put the cross member in I didn't have to break out the crowbar... I just gave it a hard kick and it popped in :D

Looks good Dale!

I agree with Sieg -- 'cause it's about the same amount of fab work to give yourself some breathing room on that tranny.

The shot of Old Gold is awesome! Love that car. You have to hear it and see it run to understand just how well this car functions. It's just so "solid". It leaves hard and pulls hard and it never bogs - burbles - or skips a beat. Hard to describe really... until you witness it.

Dale -- if you need some sheetmetal fab help... you might contact Tim Bruning - he's there on your side of the river and has a fantastic home shop as well as mad skills.

PM or email me if you want his contact info. His son posts under TJBRUNING
You should get to know him regardless of whether or not you need his help. :thumbsup:

Thanks Greg!

Paul drives Ol' Gold, and his dad Bob does the mechanics. It's a great family team. You're right... it rarely breaks loose, and launches like it's on rails. Those big slicks look cool to.

I sent you a PM... I am interested in contacting Tim for some possible help... Thanks :thumbsup:

chr2002ca

02-21-2013, 10:56 AM

Sieg

02-21-2013, 11:14 AM

I'm jealous of that jack you used. I need to find me one of those!

Thanks again,
Chris
Chris, I'll lend you a hand and it's only $80!
http://www.harborfreight.com/450-lb-capacity-transmission-jack-39178.html

chr2002ca

02-21-2013, 02:29 PM

Chris, I'll lend you a hand and it's only $80!
http://www.harborfreight.com/450-lb-capacity-transmission-jack-39178.html

Perfect! And that right there is why I love this forum. Thanks Sieg! The local Harbor Freight has 3 of them in stock. I'll snag one this weekend. :) Given my luck, I'll probably need it 5 times over the next 6 months. :lol:

Sieg

02-21-2013, 02:54 PM

Perfect! And that right there is why I love this forum. Thanks Sieg! The local Harbor Freight has 3 of them in stock. I'll snag one this weekend. :) Given my luck, I'll probably need it 5 times over the next 6 months. :lol:

Welcome! Things like this jack that seldom get used are what I love about Harbor Freight. Hopefully you only use it once. :thumbsup:

DaleTx

02-21-2013, 08:54 PM

Great updates Dale. :thumbsup: Thanks for continuing to share the great details and photos. I'm sure you're happy to finally see that Magnum up in there and sitting on that crossmember. Not an easy job whatsoever. I'm going to be starting that exact same job in less than 2 weeks, so I appreciate everything you've shared so far.

My "clutch fingers to block measurement" is estimated to be just slightly less than yours, and my bellhousing depth a half inch more than yours, so I'm thinking I'll need to use that ZR1 slave also which has a lower profile than a standard LS slave. I have 2 'quick' questions for you.

1. When you compressed the slave cylinder and measured from the face of it to the mounting face of the transmission, do you remember what measurement you got?

2. You mentioned the ZR1 slave has some special plumbing notes. Is it necessary to use that hard line that comes with it? I was hoping to just plumb a soft line from my MC directly to it. Any plumbing notes you could share would be great.

I'm jealous of that jack you used. I need to find me one of those!

Thanks again,
Chris

Thanks Chris... It felt great to finally get the T56 bolted up :thumbsup:

I did purchase the transmission jack from Harbor Freight like Sieg said. The transmission jack also works great for removing and installing the fuel tank. It’s a nice tool to have around.

Here's the answers to your questions:

1. The measurement from the face of the bell to the compressed throwout bearing was 4.280". I ended up with 0.125" clearance between the clutch fingers and the face of the compressed throwout bearing.

2. For the plumbing I ended up using the hard line that came with the GM ZR1 throwout bearing. The plumbing that goes into the throwout bearing has a special O-ring quick disconnect fitting that is retained with a clip. I’m not sure if you can substitute that with a soft line… there are no threads to screw into.

On the other end of the hard line there is a black plastic female quick disconnect fitting that accepts a male fitting with an O-ring. I ended up having a custom line made that goes from the clutch master to the female fitting.

What I found out is that there are two different style male quick disconnect fittings… one style for 2004 and older throwout bearings, and one style for 2005 and newer. The GM ZR1 throwout bearing (pn: 24237569) takes the 2005 and newer fitting. Of course the first one I bought didn’t fit and that’s how I found out!

I ended up buying a custom line from Mcleod Racing. There is a technical sales guy there named “Billy” and he was very helpful. If you talk to him he will set you up. I’m due to receive the line tomorrow (Friday) and I will post up a picture of the set up. Hopefully everything will fit this time around.

Here is a shot of the ZR1 throwout bearing with the hard plumbing and quick disconnect fitting

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan19022_zpsbb0287a4-1_zps86e50fcc.jpg

Here is a shot of the male quick disconnect fitting that didn't fit. It looks like it would fit but was 0.030" to big!

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/hydraulicclutchplumbing_zpsc9ec994b.jpg

I should receive the new line from Mcleod tomorrow. I'll post a picture if I get it.
Hopefully this info will save you a little grief.

:cheers:

frankv11

02-21-2013, 10:50 PM

Todd in vancouver

02-22-2013, 12:05 AM

Always good to see someone else from the Pacific NorthWET!:woot:

Nutter does some engines and dyno's them over at Jim Preston's some times... and he used to build Preston's drag motors...

Where are you in the PNW??

Lol... nothing like 4 straight months of gray sky's and drizzle. I'm in Vancouver. I run my car at PIR. Might have to check out some tracks up north sometime.
Nutter is a great guy to work with, he's told me a few stories about his drag racing days... do you know him?

Again very nice motor Dale, you in Vancouver, BC, Canada or Vancouver, WA?

Rybar and I are also suffering the dismal Pacific NorthWet blues. Great car and nice build!

Just finished reading your thread and you've done some really nice work. I guess I better get my butt in gear and transfer my posts over to here from PT on my project.

It's amazing just how many guys there are with some really awesome builds around the PNW area. Hopefully there will be some local events coming up where I can see these super cool rides and meet some of you locals. It seems like the events are South but if/when we see some good weather I'm hoping there are some posts for local events. I'd really like to see your car and some others before I embark on my LS conversion.

Sieg

02-22-2013, 09:01 AM

Just finished reading your thread and you've done some really nice work. I guess I better get my butt in gear and transfer my posts over to here from PT on my project.

It's amazing just how many guys there are with some really awesome builds around the PNW area. Hopefully there will be some local events coming up where I can see these super cool rides and meet some of you locals. It seems like the events are South but if/when we see some good weather I'm hoping there are some posts for local events. I'd really like to see your car and some others before I embark on my LS conversion.
Yes you should get your build over here! :thumbsup:

I've noticed Lat-g is starting to get a collection of PNWet members, maybe a trackday at The Ridge or Oregon Raceway? Indoor kart event tied in with the PDX Roadster Show, or?

DaleTx

02-22-2013, 08:45 PM

I bought same coupling a while back from them , just had to get crimped once positioned. Don't know if your running a remote bleeder line but it would save you a ton of headaches if you do. Can find them all over eBay

Thanks Frank… I did end up installing a 4ft remote bleeder line.

Just finished reading your thread and you've done some really nice work. I guess I better get my butt in gear and transfer my posts over to here from PT on my project.

It's amazing just how many guys there are with some really awesome builds around the PNW area. Hopefully there will be some local events coming up where I can see these super cool rides and meet some of you locals. It seems like the events are South but if/when we see some good weather I'm hoping there are some posts for local events. I'd really like to see your car and some others before I embark on my LS conversion.

Thanks Todd

Definitely post up your project here...

That would be great to meet up with some of the PNW & Vancouver B.C. guys in the near future. We’ll have to work on that one and find a show somewhere mid way :thumbsup:

Yes you should get your build over here! :thumbsup:

I've noticed Lat-g is starting to get a collection of PNWet members, maybe a trackday at The Ridge or Oregon Raceway? Indoor kart event tied in with the PDX Roadster Show, or?

Sieg… Count me in, I would like to meet some of my fellow PNWet neighbors! :sieg:

A trackday at the Ridge or Oregon Raceway would be great! :thumbsup:
:drive:

DaleTx

03-20-2013, 07:31 PM

I ended up raising the tunnel 7/8” in the back and 1-1/4” in the front. After installing the transmission there is about ¾” plus clearance all around between the transmission and the tunnel. This should be enough to prevent rubbing, and allow for some airflow.

First I fabricated the tunnel and added a gusset where the console mounts and where the shifter boot mounts.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march3014_zpseb77444d.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march3015_zps24ac27b8.jpg

Next I secured the weldment to the tunnel with sheet metal screws to hold everything in place for welding.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march3022_zps34cc114c.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march3021_zps0a926bc6.jpg

Next I welded the tunnel all around from underneath the car :welder: ...not a fun job!

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march3019_zpsa7e4ac35.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march3018_zps4da51f10.jpg

Next two pics show penetration from the weld underneath.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march3029_zpsaae6ba56.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march3033_zps96e431aa.jpg

Then I welded the tunnel all around from inside the car, and cleaned up the welds with a little sanding.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march3049_zpsa0dbc34b.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march3051_zps699d604d.jpg

Next I painted the tunnel and re-installed the transmission

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/mar102012038_zps48aca742.jpg

DaleTx

03-20-2013, 08:54 PM

When I made the tunnel weldment... I kept it narrow at the top so the console would drop over the top and fit back in the original location. I did not want the console to sit up any higher than stock.

Since the tunnel went up 1-1/4" in the front I had to modify the mounting bracket on the console. I removed the metal bracket (part with the studs) and cut it down 1-1/4"... welded... then re-installed.

These pictures shows the underside of the console after modifications.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/mar102012031_zps8febee7e.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/mar102012028_zpsc41766a1.jpg

Next I installed the console... The console now sits at the same elevation as original location before the tunnel mods.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-03-12171439_zps16da3c5a.jpg

Here is a shot of the shifter I bought from Hurst that came with the T56 trans kit.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march19004_zps1d3ce06e.jpg

I made some modifications to the shifter would so it would be in the exact position that would be comfortable for shifting while strapped in.... I didn't want to have to reach for the shifter. I got the tip on modifying the shifter from Stielows "Pro Touring" build book (page 77).

On a side note... I met Mark Stielow at the SEMA show last fall at Hod Rod Alley in the Optima booth. Mark answered my rookie questions and helped me spec out gear ratios for my transmission and rear axle before I made the trans purchase... he also and gave me a copy his book. It was great to meet him... a very good guy :thumbsup:

I cut the mounting pad off the shift lever

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march19005_zpsd14ff35d.jpg

Shift lever tack welded in new position for test fit in the car

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march19014_zps9283cf7a.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march19018_zpsba89023c.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march19022_zpsfd330887.jpg

Modified shift lever completed.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march19039_zpsd84d4b8f.jpg

Shift lever installed in car. The position of the shifter felt just right.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march19024_zps3b36b424.jpg

My daughter and grandson came over to visit while I was working on the car. He will be spoiled by grandpa :yes:

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march3060_zps6cab8b66.jpg

Thanks to Tim Bruning for coming over to my house and giving me some good advice on how to properly modify the tunnel :thumbsup:... Turns out that we are practically neighbors.

Tim has a beautiful 1970 Dodge Challenger project that I was fortunate to see first hand.... absolutely amazing build :bow:

Thanks Tim

Next up will be the hydraulic clutch install. The hydraulic clutch install is completed now and it has a great feel compared to the mechanical Z-bar set up... less pedal effort and better feel.

GregWeld

03-20-2013, 09:07 PM

NICE WORK DALE!!

Looks great!

Sieg

03-20-2013, 09:12 PM

Over-achiever!

Nicely done Dale. :thumbsup:

DaleTx

03-20-2013, 10:57 PM

I installed the shortened driveline with the new yoke, and a home-made driveline safety loop after the trans was installed. I think it's a good idea to run a loop just in case.

The home-made driveline loop bolts up into the tunnel with 4 bolts and tucks up out of the way.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/mar102012022_zps6faa86e9.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/mar102012005_zpsbd88f125.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-03-12172042_zps884595d3.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-03-12171847_zpsf64add94.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-03-12171733_zps8ae04ac3.jpg

NICE WORK DALE!!

Looks great!

Over-achiever!

Nicely done Dale. :thumbsup:

Thanks guys!

I don't know if it's over achieving or just keeping busy while it's raining. One benefit of the rain I guess.

Thanks Greg for putting me in touch with Tim… good call... he was a big help. I enjoyed visiting with him.

214Chevy

03-21-2013, 06:28 AM

Good idea on the shifter. Priceless pic of the grandson in the seat. :thumbsup: One day he'll see that pic and be amazed at when he was a baby sitting in the seat of the car that grandad will give him.

DaleTx

03-21-2013, 10:24 PM

Converting from the original mechanical Z-Bar clutch linkage on the Camaro to the hydraulic clutch set up turned out to be quite a bit more work than I expected. It seems like it would be easy, but it required a lot of work up under the dash in hard to reach areas... It was difficult to find the correct fittings for the plumbing... and it took quite a bit of time to gather up the right combination of parts to get the correct spacing between the clutch fingers and the hydraulic throwout bearing.
:hairpullout:

I purchased the hydraulic clutch conversion kit from Hurst that had all of the components. I bought their complete kit minus the throwout bearing. I already had a GM ZR1 hydraulic throwout bearing that came with the ZR1 twin disc clutch kit I bought from Katech.

Here is a shot of the complete kit. The kit came with an aluminum billet mounting bracket, a Tilton master cylinder, remote reservoir, and an adjustable length push rod, and hydraulic line.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb1006_zps0cb54504.jpg

Here is the GM ZR1 throwout bearing that came with the clutch kit from Katech. It turned out to be difficult to find a hydraulic line with the correct fitting to plug into the quick disconnect fitting on ZR1 throwout bearing (black plastic piece). I bought two different lines and neither one fit. I ended up cutting off the quick disconnect fitting and converting to a 4AN male fitting. A local hose vendor silver soldered on the AN fitting.

These are the two hoses I bought that didn't fit... one was to big and one was to small

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-02-25123718_zps52edf3b2.jpg

This is a picture of the old fitting cut off and the new 4AN fitting silver soldered on

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march3013_zpsc55bc9b9.jpg

First step on the install was to pull the brake master cylinder and install the clutch master cylinder and bracket

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb9038_zps6e954a34.jpg

Next I pulled the clutch pedal out of the car so I could drill a hole for the clutch pushrod clevis pin. The hole has to be in the exact right position so the rod doesn't bind up when you push the clutch in. The kit had instructions with dimensions of where to put the hole.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb9034_zps68b7b2ad.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb9033_zps75a758ac.jpg

Next I made an adjustable hard stop for the clutch pedal. The hard stop is required so you don't damage the clutch master cylinder. From my understanding you don't want the plunger piston to act as a stop for the clutch pedal... this can damage the internals. Hurst recommended a hardstop be installed behind the clutch pedal.

The hard stop I made started out as a piece of 1" square tubing, two 3/8 nuts, 3/8 bolt, and a washer.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march19011_zps858be718.jpg

Clutch hard stop installed on the firewall

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march19037_zpsacd16e69.jpg

This is a shot of the clutch arm bottomed out on the stop. I set the stop height so the clutch pedal bottomed out on the stop just before the end of the stroke on the clutch master cylinder pushrod.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march19036_zps87249451.jpg

Then I installed the remote reservoir for the clutch master cylinder and then re-installed the brake master cylinder.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/feb19020_zpse6b0ca04.jpg

Finally.. I made the connection from the throwout bearing to the clutch master cylinder.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march21006_zps3855f9d7.jpg

Now that the job is done I'm really glad I converted from mechanical to hydraulic clutch. I wasn't sure if was a good move or not. The clutch pedal effort is less now and it has a great feel! I have the ZR1 clutch with the heavier springs (20% more grip) and the clutch takes very little effort to depress. Also, with the hard stop and adjustable plunger, I was able to fine tune the position of where the clutch begins to engage. Another plus is there is more clearance around the headers... no more pivot arms and links.

That's it for the clutch install... Hope this helps for anyone thinking about converting.

While the car is up on the jack stands I plan to change the shocks from Bilstein to the new Hotchkis Tuned Fox shocks... and change the front upper ball joints to Proforged 1/2" taller than stock ball joints.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march21013_zpsa715d01d.jpg

Also I picked up some new valve covers.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/march21020_zpsd9a519f4.jpg

:cheers:

DaleTx

03-21-2013, 10:30 PM

intocarss

03-22-2013, 12:14 AM

Great build and write up :thumbsup: Keep it coming

fleetus macmullitz

03-22-2013, 07:55 AM

Great build and write up :thumbsup: Keep it coming

X2.

This is textbook stuff...well done Dale. :thumbsup:

coolwelder62

03-22-2013, 08:09 AM

Wow!!!! This is an awesome build thread.I may have learned something from it.I was wanting to use a ZR1 clutch set up on my next build.Thank's for the great info.:thankyou: :thankyou:

Sieg

03-22-2013, 10:12 AM

Great write up Dale........and exceptional work! :thumbsup:

DaleTx

03-23-2013, 09:40 AM

Great build and write up :thumbsup: Keep it coming

X2.

This is textbook stuff...well done Dale. :thumbsup:

Wow!!!! This is an awesome build thread.I may have learned something from it.I was wanting to use a ZR1 clutch set up on my next build.Thank's for the great info.:thankyou: :thankyou:

Great write up Dale........and exceptional work! :thumbsup:

Thanks guys... much appreciated :thankyou:

Coolwelder... I ran the ZR1 twin disc clutch for a few months last year with my Muncie before doing the T56 Mag swap. I can tell you that it is absolutely the best clutch I've had yet... and I've tried quite a few... you won't be disappointed.

Sieg

04-26-2013, 09:22 PM

Dale - I've been amazed at how clean and articulate your thread is. The caliber and detail of information could be considered the epitome of free forum knowledge. Next to zero hijacks and nearly void of the traditional seemingly unavoidable liter. Sadly what this thread and your garage lack is color and pizazz.

I'm going to take the liberty as a fellow enthusiast and suggest a little color and pizazz to your environment even if it means tattooing such a sanitary and educational thread that Jody is probably very proud of, as you should be. If you find it offensive I'm sure one of the under-worked over-paid mods around here will gladly snipe my post.

A garage really need a little pizazz don't you think?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-snvw3Pv/0/XL/i-snvw3Pv-XL.jpg

Then a little yard art that contrasts yet compliments nature and wildlife in a magical way.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-6qk2HWX/0/XL/i-6qk2HWX-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-64h2Lkv/0/XL/i-64h2Lkv-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TfLHfJk/0/XL/i-TfLHfJk-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4xJcmG7/0/XL/i-4xJcmG7-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-mkNRBmd/0/XL/i-mkNRBmd-XL.jpg

:thumbsup:

Ron in SoCal

04-26-2013, 09:42 PM

Too Orange ;)

DaleTx

04-26-2013, 10:12 PM

A garage really need a little pizazz don't you think?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-snvw3Pv/0/XL/i-snvw3Pv-XL.jpg

Wow… great pictures Sieg! the shot of the bike next to your car is my favorite… two high performance machines. You are learning how to use that camera very quickly.

Don’t get any ideas that the orange and black machine with the two wheels has found a home in your garage :D Thanks so much for getting me set up with a bike... you're the man. Looking forward to meeting you tomorrow :thumbsup:

Some variety is good but I do have more info to post on the hydraulic clutch master cylinder set up and dry sump pump set up in the trunk.

:thankyou:

garickman

04-26-2013, 10:16 PM

Some variety is good but I do have more info to post on the hydraulic clutch master cylinder set up and dry sump pump set up in the trunk.

:thankyou:

Can't wait to see those updates! Very inspirational and informative thread.

Flash68

04-26-2013, 11:45 PM

Some variety is good but I do have more info to post on the hydraulic clutch master cylinder set up and dry sump pump set up in the trunk.

:thankyou:

Dale, I assume you mean the oil tank in the trunk and I am curious to see what you have come up with. I am working on this now and I have not found a great spot yet for a 4 gallon+ size tank. Maybe you aren't running one that big though.

waynieZ

04-27-2013, 07:03 PM

Nice job on the install and the write up.

96z28ss

04-27-2013, 08:12 PM

I was at Tim's today when he called you, I wanted to come check out the car.

DaleTx

04-29-2013, 12:00 AM

Dale, I assume you mean the oil tank in the trunk and I am curious to see what you have come up with. I am working on this now and I have not found a great spot yet for a 4 gallon+ size tank. Maybe you aren't running one that big though.

Yeah I worded that wrong... I used a 3.5 gallon tank that is mounted in the trunk. The tank was custom built to my specs by Stef's (see link below). I chose one of their standard dirt track tanks (part No. 4155) and had them modify it. They sent me a drawing of the stock tank and then I marked up the drawing and changed the width slightly so I could get 3.5 gallons. My tank holds 3.5 gallons when half full.

The tanks are very well made and engineered correctly with special internal baffles and plates designed to deaerate the oil. A.C. Nutter (my engine builder) helped me to size the tank. He has lots of experience with dry sump systems and he said to use a 3 to 4 gallon tank minimum if it's mounted in the trunk. The advantage to running larger tanks is that the oil has more time to deareate before getting pumped back into the engine.

I have had good results with this set up. I installed a 4 stage dry sump pump, plumbing, and tank set up in the car last August and have run the car on the street since then, and one HPDE track day last September with no oiling problems. My oil pressure is about 40 psi at idle and 60 psi when cruising.

Here are some pics of the set up

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april282013028_zps757b3109.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april282013028_zps757b3109.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april282013027_zps01470492.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april282013027_zps01470492.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april282013022_zps97af8e0f.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april282013022_zps97af8e0f.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april282013025_zps146acf3d.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april282013025_zps146acf3d.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2012-12-15132619-1-1_zps14570e95.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2012-12-15132619-1-1_zps14570e95.jpg.html)

About $140 worth of oil for one oil change!

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april1117_zps152ce2cf.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april1117_zps152ce2cf.jpg.html)

I'll post more on the whole set up later... I just wanted to get you the info on the tank. Here is the link to their website... I worked with Stan:
www.stefsperformance.net/stefs-fabrication/products/sump-tanks

I started with tank #4155 under "custom dry sump tank assemblies". Stef'sdoes the custom tanks all the time... very good guys to work with. I decide to mount the tank in the trunk so I could keep things cleaner looking under the hood and I wanted to keep the battery, ECM, and fuel pump controller up in the right front of the car for easy access and better cooling.

DaleTx

04-29-2013, 12:13 AM

Can't wait to see those updates! Very inspirational and informative thread.

Thank you, appreciate it :thumbsup:

Nice job on the install and the write up.

Thank you Wayne

I was at Tim's today when he called you, I wanted to come check out the car.

Sorry I missed you guys... Next time your out this way definitely give me a call and stop by. Bring your car to.

Flash68

04-29-2013, 02:28 AM

DaleTx

04-29-2013, 09:52 AM

Thanks Dale. Very cool clean setup.

You say your tank holds 3.5 gallons when half full. That can't be right. You must be 3.5 gallons if it was 100% full, yes?

I am going with a minimum of 4 gallons myself as well per 95% of the recommendations I have sought out and for trunk position. I also will have a cell to deal with but I see you have a factory type fuel tank. I envy you!

Again, very nice setup and thanks for passing on the info. I may end up doing a custom shaped tank like you as well.

Thanks Flash!

When I first put oil in my dry sump system (after draining completely) I use a total of 3.5 gallons of oil… I dump one quart into the new oil filter and then add 13 quarts of oil in the tank in the trunk. I have a bung on the side of the oil tank with a removable plug at the halfway point so I know when the tank is half full. After adding the 13 quarts into the tank the oil just starts to come out the hole. Some of the oil added to the tank goes into the pressure line going to the pump… so this accounts for some of the oil volume.

So the tank in the trunk is half full with 3.5 gallons of oil in the system with a fresh oil change. The reason the tank is run only half full is to allow for variations in the oil level. As the RPM of the engine increase the volume of oil returning to the tank increases. If I run more than 14 quarts of oil in the system then I start seeing oil in my remote breather tank. It’s kind of a balancing act… you want to make sure you always have a head of oil in the tank to supply the pressure section of the pump… and you need to have a tank with enough capacity to allow for variations of oil volume at the tank during low and high RPM operation.

I am no expert on dry sump systems but I did research and took advice from people who design dry sump systems, and have experience running dry sump systems, and this is what they recommended for running a dry sump system with the tank mounted in the trunk. I have run the engine on the street and also wide open on the track and everything is working well. For extra piece of mind… I installed a warning light (pressure switch) that turns on if the oil pressure drops below 18psi… so far I have never seen the light come on.

Here is a picture that shows the bung and brass plug at the halfway point on the oil tank.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april282013028_zps757b3109.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april282013028_zps757b3109.jpg.html)

Your car project is very cool... i like it :cool:

:thumbsup:

Ron in SoCal

04-29-2013, 10:44 AM

Killer Dale. Can you show how you routed the lines from the trunk forward?

DaleTx

04-29-2013, 11:36 PM

Killer Dale. Can you show how you routed the lines from the trunk forward?

Thanks Ron... I know that you are at this stage of your build to start plumbing your dry sump oil system. It's a lot of extra work but well worth it knowing the engine will get a good supply of oil while running wide open and cornering hard out on the track :D

Look forward to seeing you get that 427" fired up.

DaleTx

04-29-2013, 11:45 PM

For the dry sump oil pump I used a NRC 4 stage Pro Series pump. I could have gone with a 3 stage to simplify the plumbing... but the extra scavenge stage creates about 10 inches HG of vacuum in the engine and gives you a little extra HP (about 15 HP in my engine). The 4 stage pump has one pressure section and three scavenge sections.

The pump is mounted to my engine block using a billet aluminum mounting bracket that bolts to the factory mount holes on the LS block. I worked with the engine builder to test the mounting bracket before I installed the engine in the car. He made some adjustments to the bracket design until the pump was in the exact right position to clear the sub frame... and allow for adjustment of the cog belt drive.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2012-08-04081006.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2012-08-04081006.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2012-08-04080529.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2012-08-04080529.jpg.html)

A.C. loaned me this busted up block to use for testing the fit of the pump and mounting bracket.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2012-02-12181422.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2012-02-12181422.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2012-02-12180809.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2012-02-12180809.jpg.html)

To drive the pump we used a Manley forged crank that had an extended nose designed for mounting the cog pulley.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april1042_zpsa01b38d8.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april1042_zpsa01b38d8.jpg.html)

The pump has a nice rigid mounting bracket.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april1029_zps299f4f76.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april1029_zps299f4f76.jpg.html)

The line on the left is the pressure line and goes into a port at the back of the engine behind the valley cover.
The line on the right is the scavenge return line that goes to the oil tank mounted in the trunk.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april1019_zpsb3c56a21.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april1019_zpsb3c56a21.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april1020_zps9fd9c753.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april1020_zps9fd9c753.jpg.html)

For the oil pan the engine builder purchased a Canton pan and then customized it by adding extra clearance for the rod bolts, and adding the 3 scavenge ports.
There is one scavenge port on the right side of the pan and two on the left side.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2012-05-26140650-1_zps56b9e251.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2012-05-26140650-1_zps56b9e251.jpg.html)

I'll show all the routing of the plumbing in another post tomorrow.

DaleTx

04-30-2013, 10:40 PM

A garage really need a little pizazz don't you think?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-snvw3Pv/0/XL/i-snvw3Pv-XL.jpg

:sieg:
I drove out to Sieg's house last Saturday and picked up a brand new KTM dirt bike that he was nice enough to get me a deal on… and he picked it up at the KTM dealership for me. Thanks again Scott! It was great to meet you and check out your car and workshop (not to mention Rev and Tucker!).

Greg Weld wheeled through town earlier in the day with his new big rig to visit with Scott and I just missed him by a few hours. I was hoping to meet him and see the new rig while I was there.

Now I have a bit of color in my garage with the new dirt bike

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/DSC_0015_zpsefa28699.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/DSC_0015_zpsefa28699.jpg.html)

I’ve met a few Lat-G members now since joining this forum…. maybe there could be a local track day get together sometime in the future. :lateral:

Ron in SoCal

04-30-2013, 10:51 PM

You KTM vinyl top guys gotta stick together :lol:

Dale part one above was great. Looking forward to part two!

Sieg

04-30-2013, 11:00 PM

Now that garage looks Proper! Good deal all the way around Dale. Look forward to the next time. :thumbsup:

Ron must have confused KTM with KY :sieg:

Ron in SoCal

04-30-2013, 11:05 PM

KY - happens all the time lol

GregWeld

05-01-2013, 08:21 AM

Sorry I missed meeting you Dale!

I'll see ya at a Beaches Wednesday afternoon....

96z28ss

05-01-2013, 10:38 AM

Sorry I missed meeting you Dale!

I'll see ya at a Beaches Wednesday afternoon....

What you bringing?
Sieg are you coming to beaches also? Mini lat-g get together?

Sieg

05-01-2013, 10:46 AM

What you bringing?
Sieg are you coming to beaches also? Mini lat-g get together?

I know nothing of their little date :sieg:

GregWeld

05-01-2013, 01:04 PM

What you bringing?
Sieg are you coming to beaches also? Mini lat-g get together?

I'd bring "da rig" with everything!!! LOL

I know nothing of their little date :sieg:

If you've never been to a Wednesday afternoon Beaches show in Portland -- ya ain't lived yet! They don't start up for awhile yet -- but often have 1500 cars -- and 600 murdercycles.... they start at 3:30is and runs til about 7:30 or 8:00... drags -- music -- food -- booze -- cars... what's not to like??

You'd also get to watch Old Gold hammer the track there like it's made of glue...

96z28ss

05-01-2013, 01:31 PM

We should all meet up sometime in June when they start. Not the first week though cause it's the Rose Festival, and that's a guarantee that it will rain.

Sieg

05-01-2013, 02:27 PM

We should all meet up sometime in June when they start. Not the first week though cause it's the Rose Festival, and that's a guarantee that it will rain.

Sounds like a plan! :thumbsup:

DaleTx

05-01-2013, 10:55 PM

You KTM vinyl top guys gotta stick together :lol:

Dale part one above was great. Looking forward to part two!

I'm not seeing of lot of builds on this site going with the vinyl top look, Lol. The cosmetics on my car are pretty much all original so far.

I took a bunch of pictures today of the plumbing underneath the car to post. Are you putting your tank in the engine compartment or in the trunk?

Now that garage looks Proper! Good deal all the way around Dale. Look forward to the next time. :thumbsup:

Ron must have confused KTM with KY :sieg:

Thanks Scott... It's good to get to know few guys on here :thumbsup:

Sorry I missed meeting you Dale!

I'll see ya at a Beaches Wednesday afternoon....

Thanks Greg... a Beaches Lat-g get together sounds good!

We should all meet up sometime in June when they start. Not the first week though cause it's the Rose Festival, and that's a guarantee that it will rain.

Sounds good, maybe we can get Tim out there to.

DaleTx

05-01-2013, 11:29 PM

Here is a shot of the plumbing for the three scavenge lines on the oil pan. My engine was run on the engine dyno with the dry sump pump and measured 10 inch HG vacuum. The valve covers are completely sealed with no vents. The only vent is a 4AN line plumbed into the valley cover that goes to a remote breather.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/DSCN0069_zpsd0b8d0b3.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/DSCN0069_zpsd0b8d0b3.jpg.html)

Here are some shots showing how I routed the plumbing underneath.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/DSCN0070_zpsb41e2139.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/DSCN0070_zpsb41e2139.jpg.html)

You can see the plumbing in the left side of pictures tucked up next to the frame rail and sub frame connectors.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/DSCN0071_zpsbe8e308e.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/DSCN0071_zpsbe8e308e.jpg.html)

I also up-sized my exhaust to 3" all the way back for the new engine. I bought some mandrel bent tubes and had some tubes custom made...
then fit and welded the tubes. This was my first time to do my own exhaust.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/DSCN0119_zps0d079873.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/DSCN0119_zps0d079873.jpg.html)

These shots are from the back of the car looking forward... the oil lines go up into the trunk and attach to the oil tank.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/DSCN0129_zps218726a1.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/DSCN0129_zps218726a1.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/DSCN0130_zpsd4f052a5.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/DSCN0130_zpsd4f052a5.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/DSCN0131_zps6f6d5bbc.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/DSCN0131_zps6f6d5bbc.jpg.html)

I ran the oil lines up above the new cross member that came with the T56 Magnum... this worked out good to keep the lines away from the exhaust.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/DSCN0168_zps4f581e9f.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/DSCN0168_zps4f581e9f.jpg.html)

DaleTx

05-02-2013, 12:07 AM

When I modified the tunnel for the T56 magnum trans I also cut a notch in the floor on the passenger side for the dry sump oil lines.
This allowed me to tuck the oil lines up above the exhaust to prevent heat damage. I used 1-1/2" square tubing... cut it to fit... and then welded all around.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/mar102012002_zps240c3406.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/mar102012002_zps240c3406.jpg.html)

This shows the clearance of the oil lines to the headers.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april1020_zps9fd9c753.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april1020_zps9fd9c753.jpg.html)

The oil lines are sitting on top of the sub frame rail.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april1021_zps61ef710b.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april1021_zps61ef710b.jpg.html)

Here is a shot of the oil lines going into the notch I cut in the floor. This worked out well and the lines have plenty of clearance from the exhaust.
The lines continue on and go up above the T56 trans cross member and then alongside the frame and sub frame connectors back to the tank in the trunk.

The oil lines are up above the frame rails the whole length of the run.
The oil lines do not go below the frame rails at any point.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april1015_zpsd0e11fac.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april1015_zpsd0e11fac.jpg.html)

tubbed69

05-02-2013, 04:35 AM

Very nice work on this one Dale,some great ideas

GregWeld

05-02-2013, 07:14 AM

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2012-12-15132619-1-1_zps14570e95.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2012-12-15132619-1-1_zps14570e95.jpg.html)

About $140 worth of oil for one oil change!

Wait til you own a Freightliner! I just had the 10,000 mile oil and filters done... it holds 10 GALLONS of oil in the crankcase... and the service was almost $500 -- but that included 2 gallons of Lucas Oil (20% is all they recommend). LOL

The dry sump system looks good Dale!

Jay Hilliard

05-02-2013, 07:57 AM

Just read the entire build thread. Great write-up and very detailed. Awesome job!

Ron in SoCal

05-02-2013, 09:29 AM

Pure function, f'n awesome Dale. I'll bet you loved buying all those -AN fittings :lol:

Thank you for documenting! :cheers:

Sieg

05-02-2013, 10:03 AM

Looks great Dale. :thumbsup:

Do you have before and after engine, trans, dry-sump weights for the car?

DaleTx

05-02-2013, 10:27 PM

Very nice work on this one Dale,some great ideas

Thank you Jeff! By the way I really like the wheel choice on your build... Very nice.

Wait til you own a Freightliner! I just had the 10,000 mile oil and filters done... it holds 10 GALLONS of oil in the crankcase... and the service was almost $500 -- but that included 2 gallons of Lucas Oil (20% is all they recommend). LOL

The dry sump system looks good Dale!

Thank you Greg… appreciate the compliment.

I need to buy oil by the gallon, and you need to buy it by the barrel, Lol.

I think it’s great what you are doing... traveling around… working on builds... enjoying life… having fun. That's what it's all about. Glad to see you have a nice rig now :thumbsup:

:relax:

Just read the entire build thread. Great write-up and very detailed. Awesome job!

Thanks Jay! I’ve been following your build also… very nice work.

Pure function, f'n awesome Dale. I'll bet you loved buying all those -AN fittings :lol:

Thank you for documenting! :cheers:

No problem Ron… all I can say is that I am very glad to be done with the dry sump plumbing… It took me over three weeks in my spare time to do all the plumbing. There were times when It just didn't seem possible to fit all the lines... but I stuck with it and in the end it worked out. I spent several thousand dollars on the tank, hoses, and AN fittings. The 16 AN fittings and stainless braided hose is very expensive.

“Pure Function” almost sounds like it could be my car build name.

:cheers:

Looks great Dale. :thumbsup:

Do you have before and after engine, trans, dry-sump weights for the car?

Thank you Sieg :thumbsup:

Going from a cast iron gen 1 small block with aluminum heads, cast iron PS pump, and full size steel starter….. to the aluminum LS block, KRC light weight PS pump, and mini starter, I was able to reduce the weight of the engine by over 90 LB.

The difference in weight between the Muncie 4 speed (85 LB) and T56 Magnum (115 LB) six speed is approx 30 LBS… so overall I reduced the total weight of the car by about 60 LBS and shifted the weight back some.

I don't have the weight of the car with the old set up... but I did weigh the car with the new LS engine and T56 transmission. The total weight with fuel was 3,470 LB... front 1,840 LB and rear 1,630 LB (53% front, 47% rear). Do you know the weight on your car?

Flash68

05-02-2013, 10:37 PM

Dale, thanks for posting all the photos and details. Very nicely done.

:thumbsup:

Sieg

05-02-2013, 11:25 PM

Dale - Before alum heads with 1/2 tank and me in it 3460# on public truck scale.

I was curious how much those dry sump lines and 3.5 gal. of oil added.

Can't wait to see and hear your car in person. :thumbsup:

DaleTx

05-06-2013, 10:28 PM

Dale, thanks for posting all the photos and details. Very nicely done.

:thumbsup:

Glad to share the info on here... I know that your are looking at putting a dry sump tank in the trunk... so far the trunk set up is working great. It's a bit of extra plumbing but it's nice to have the extra room under the hood.

Dale - Before alum heads with 1/2 tank and me in it 3460# on public truck scale.

I was curious how much those dry sump lines and 3.5 gal. of oil added.

Can't wait to see and hear your car in person. :thumbsup:

Thanks Sieg... I'm looking forward to meeting up with you and some other lat-g guys out at Beaches in June! I would be curious what your weight distribution is compared to mine... our cars are very similar other than I have the aluminum block.

DaleTx

05-06-2013, 10:31 PM

Plumbing from the oil pan to the dry sump pump...

The three 10AN scavenge lines from the oil pan are routed to the driver side of the engine and then up towards the front of the car. The three lines make a loop and then go back to the three scavenge sections on the bottom of the dry sump pump.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/may5a001_zps95f92926.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/may5a001_zps95f92926.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april1013_zps39f71853.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april1013_zps39f71853.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/may5a002_zps6542ac0e.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/may5a002_zps6542ac0e.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/may5a005_zps32495a31.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/may5a005_zps32495a31.jpg.html)

On the top side of the dry sump pump a single 16AN line goes back to the tank mounted in the trunk (the 90 deg fitting on the right).

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april1019_zpsb3c56a21.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april1019_zpsb3c56a21.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april1015_zpsd0e11fac.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april1015_zpsd0e11fac.jpg.html)

There is a screen type filter in the 16AN line going back to the tank in the trunk. The screen filter prevents debris from entering the tank.

DaleTx

05-07-2013, 12:26 AM

The pressure line from the dry sump pump goes into a remote mount oil filter. I bought a billet aluminum filter mount from Moroso and built a custom bracket that bolts on using the same bolts that hold on the hood hinge... this worked good... the mount is very solid and I didn't have to drill holes in the firewall or inner fender.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/DSC_0016_zpsd2044c40.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/DSC_0016_zpsd2044c40.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/picsjan6020_zps26a625d9.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/picsjan6020_zps26a625d9.jpg.html)

The pressure line exits the oil filter and is plumbed into a port at the back of the block.
I ran a tee of the main line line with a 3AN fitting and hose to my oil pressure gauge inside the car.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/DSC_0017_zps18a89e23.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/DSC_0017_zps18a89e23.jpg.html)

This pic shows the pressure line going into the port at the back of the engine block

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/jan16a001_zps8cc072fd.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/jan16a001_zps8cc072fd.jpg.html)

That's it for the dry sump plumbing :headspin:

I would say that installing the dry sump system was much more work than I expected. It took several weeks after I installed the engine to mount the oil tank in the trunk and complete all the plumbing.

I decided to go with the dry sump so I could track the car and know that my engine would always have a good oil supply while cornering. The dry sump system should help to extend the life of the engine.

I know lots of guys on here run dry sump systems on their engines. I have not seen too much info on dry sump systems with the tank installed in the trunk. So far this has worked out good. The engine builder had lots of experience with this type of set up and said it would be no problem at all as long as all of the lines and tank are sized properly.

Glad I'm done with this part of the project... :D :lateral:

DaleTx

05-07-2013, 10:18 PM

This past weekend the weather cleared up, and the sun was out so I took a few pictures.

Nice to have the car done... and back on the road again after working on it all winter :D

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/DSC_0045_zps667bee8b.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/DSC_0045_zps667bee8b.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/DSC_0014_zps088401e8.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/DSC_0014_zps088401e8.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/DSC_0040_zps9055a69d.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/DSC_0040_zps9055a69d.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/DSC_0053_zps8f97738c.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/DSC_0053_zps8f97738c.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/DSC_0071_zpsaeb84376.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/DSC_0071_zpsaeb84376.jpg.html)

GregWeld

05-07-2013, 10:42 PM

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Sieg

05-08-2013, 12:07 AM

Nice track weapon! :thumbsup:

waynieZ

05-08-2013, 04:37 PM

Sweet !

Flash68

05-08-2013, 05:09 PM

Love it, Dale. She's a fine machine. :rockin:

fleetus macmullitz

05-08-2013, 09:41 PM

Congrats Dale. :thumbsup:

Very impressive build execution.

intocarss

05-08-2013, 09:59 PM

Very Clean

DaleTx

05-09-2013, 12:35 PM

Thanks guys, appreciate it! :thumbsup:

I have been driving the car for about a month now with the new T56 Magnum transmission… the Corvette ZR1 twin disc clutch… Fidanza aluminum flywheel… and the hydraulic clutch conversion. The ZR1 clutch is the best clutch I’ve ever had in the car! Very smooth engagement, quiet (no rattles), and the grip is excellent. I bought the modified ZR1 Clutch that is rated for 960 lb-ft torque, and I used a GM ZR1 throwout bearing. Even with the high torque rating the clutch still takes very little effort at the pedal and is extremely smooth on engagement.

I went with a Fidanza 12 LB aluminum flywheel to offset some of the extra weight of the GM twin disc clutch. It takes a bit more RPM to get going but still very easy to drive. I like the feel of the engine with the lighter flywheel.

The T56 magnum transmission has a very short throw, and just seems to click into gear with very little effort.... shifting up or down. The trans shifts at higher RPM with no problems at all. Shifting at peak RPM took a bit more effort on the lever but it still shifted great. I have the close ratio T56 with 0.80 5th gear and 0.63 6th gear… with a 3.73 rear axle in the car it felt just about right in 1st gear. Cruising at 75 mph in 6th gear the RPM is just over 2K.

The only issue I had on the transmission conversion was with the hydraulic clutch kit. The kit came with a Tilton ¾” bore master cylinder with a 1.1”stroke. I ended up using all of the stroke to get the clutch to disengage. I drove the car for about a week with this set up… but didn’t like the feel of the ¾” bore master… it took too much travel on the pedal to disengage the clutch… and it was difficult to shift quickly. Maybe the GM twin disc clutch just takes more travel to disengage than a single disc clutch. I ended up replacing the ¾” bore master cylinder with a Tilton 7/8”bore and now it’s much better. The action is quicker and the clutch feels just right.

Here is pic of the 3/4" bore master cylinder on the bottom, and the new 7/8" master on the top

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april282013006_zpsd4e453a5.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april282013006_zpsd4e453a5.jpg.html)

Ready to go back in the car

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/Copyofapril282013007_zps492cbf15.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/Copyofapril282013007_zps492cbf15.jpg.html)

Here is a list of part numbers for all the bores sizes of the Tilton clutch master cylinder kits for anyone interested. I bought the kit from Summit.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april282013003_zpsbbcc987c.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april282013003_zpsbbcc987c.jpg.html)

It took a couple of months work and a lot of time spent under the car before I could stick this part on :D

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april1003_zps94ff1b8c.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april1003_zps94ff1b8c.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april1007_zps40b9580f.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april1007_zps40b9580f.jpg.html)

That’s it for the trans and clutch conversion… everything is working good now.
:relax:

rickpaw

05-09-2013, 01:30 PM

Just read thru your thread. I think I ran across your car @ Beaches couple years back. I also had AC rebuild my Pontiac engine as well. He tried to talk me into one of the LS long blocks he had sitting on engine stands, but I was dumb and rebuilt the Pontiac motor instead.

I lived about 10 mins from AC before I moved to Houston. Small world.

DaleTx

05-09-2013, 09:29 PM

Sieg

05-09-2013, 09:39 PM

It took a couple of months work and a lot of time spent under the car before I could stick this part on :D

That’s it for the trans and clutch conversion… everything is working good now.
:relax:

:excited: :woot: :woot: :excited:

:thumbsup:

rickpaw

05-10-2013, 06:03 AM

I started my engine build with A.C. a couple years ago also. I was there with my cousin who was getting a 500HP 406" SB built... and A.C. pulled me aside and we started talking LS engines... shortly after that I started the LS engine build with him. I was looking to go one up on my cousin with a little more cubic inch and HP, Lol.

What kind of Pontiac do you have?

I have a 67 Firebird. I stopped by AC and talked to him about rebuilding a 69 Pontiac block that I have. He had a couple of fully rebuilt al LS long blocks sitting on stands, and said for the same money of rebuilding the Pontiac, I can have one of those. I was restoring the Firebird back to stock, and wanted old school motor. A month ago, I sold the Pontiac motor and began an LS swap. Should have gone LS with AC back then, and could have saved me boat load of $$$.

Tu

rickpaw

05-10-2013, 06:08 AM

One quick question. Who makes your roll bar? I'm thinking of doing the same to my Firebird.

DaleTx

05-10-2013, 10:39 PM

Hey Rick, I just met another local guy here that is doing a 67 Firebird project with an LS engine swap. He just picked up an LS2 out of a GTO a few weeks ago. You’ll be really happy going with the LS engine… you just can’t beat the new technology with computer control, and fuel injection. Also the lighter weight with the aluminum block is nice. I know that I will never go back to a gen 1 carburated engine.

I bought the 4-point roll bar kit from Detroit Speed. It’s a nice design and all of the parts fit perfectly.

rickpaw

05-13-2013, 11:52 AM

Thanks Dale.

parsonsj

05-22-2013, 08:07 AM

garickman

05-22-2013, 08:40 AM

parsonsj

05-22-2013, 09:16 AM

If it works fine now, how could it be a problem down the road? Good question. A couple of things come to mind:
1. Too much or or not enough release bearing to clutch finger clearance could lead to premature bearing failure, or
2. Too much or not enough wear adjustment could lead to shortened clutch life.

Or it might be just fine as is. Does anybody know of the dimensional differences (if any) between the LS1 and the LS9 slaves? I think that's what we need to know.

DaleTx

05-22-2013, 07:55 PM

Hey Dale,

Back to your clutch set up: I've got a question/caution for you. D&D tells me that their spacer is designed for the LS1 (Camaro) slave, not the ZR1 slave, and that Mark S. used LS1 slaves in his similar setups.

It might be a good idea to compare the sizes of the LS1 and ZR1 slaves to make sure you don't have a problem down the road.

I don’t know the dimensional difference is between the LS1 slave and the ZR1 slave, and I’m not sure which bell housing Mark Stielow used on his build. I am using a QT bell part#RM-8020… D&D “ZR1 Clutch Spacer” Part#BC40… GM ZR1 throw out bearing part#24237569… GM pilot bearing part#12557583… GM ZR1 twin disc clutch, and a Katech (Fidanza) aluminum flywheel.

I was very careful to check all the critical dimensions when installing the new transmission and clutch, including the free play on the slave… and the fit of the transmission input shaft to the pilot bearing. Using the parts listed above, everything fit correctly and the clearance between the clutch fingers and slave face was ~0.12”. I did not have to use any shims on the ZR1 slave.

When I called D&D and told them I was installing a ZR1 twin disc clutch and ZR1 slave they asked which bell I was using. They knew exactly which spacer I needed to use with the QT bell. They had the spacer I needed on the shelf. I’ve been driving the car for a couple of months now and everything works great.

I do appreciate the word of caution though… it’s good to have discussions like this. When you mix and match parts things can go wrong.

:lateral:

DaleTx

05-24-2013, 03:49 PM

Good question. A couple of things come to mind:
1. Too much or or not enough release bearing to clutch finger clearance could lead to premature bearing failure, or
2. Too much or not enough wear adjustment could lead to shortened clutch life.

Or it might be just fine as is. Does anybody know of the dimensional differences (if any) between the LS1 and the LS9 slaves? I think that's what we need to know.

John, I found out some info on the dimensions for the for the LS1 and LS9 slaves. I contacted Katech and they said the ZR1 LS9 slave is 2-3/8” when compressed. I went to an auto parts store and measured an LS1 slave for a 2002 camaro (AC Delco #386433, Summit #24264182) and it was about 2-1/2” when compressed.

It looks like either the LS1 or LS9 slave would work. The plumbing is slightly different on the two slaves, and the ZR1 slave has a rubber boot covering the spring and the LS1 slave did not… I’m not sure what other differences there might be.

parsonsj

05-24-2013, 04:13 PM

garickman

05-24-2013, 04:14 PM

John, I found out some info on the dimensions for the for the LS1 and LS9 slaves. I contacted Katech and they said the ZR1 LS9 slave is 2-3/8” when compressed. I went to an auto parts store and measured an LS1 slave for a 2002 camaro (AC Delco #386433, Summit #24264182) and it was about 2-1/2” when compressed.

It looks like either the LS1 or LS9 slave would work. The plumbing is slightly different on the two slaves, and the ZR1 slave has a rubber boot covering the spring and the LS1 slave did not… I’m not sure what other differences there might be.

Good news! Thanks for the update Dale. Pretty cool that you took the time to find out this info even though your ride is done. Much appreciated.

DaleTx

05-24-2013, 09:33 PM

Dale,

I was working on the exact same information. I agree that either should work fine, and I am resting easier myself since my project's drivetrain is all bolted up and installed in the car.

Thanks!

Good news! Thanks for the update Dale. Pretty cool that you took the time to find out this info even though your ride is done. Much appreciated.

No problem guys...

Be sure to report back how you like the clutches... I'm sold on the set up. It's hard to beat the OEM stuff. Super smooth engagement and firm grip.

:lateral:

parsonsj

05-24-2013, 10:09 PM

Be sure to report back how you like the clutches... I'm running the same ZR1 clutch in my Z06. I've got about 300 miles on it, and it's great. Smooth, easy on the leg, etc. No hint of chatter or anything like that. I'm a big fan of OEM clutches too.

DaleTx

05-30-2013, 11:59 PM

This week I registered for a track day out at Portland International Raceway at the end of June… can’t wait to get back out on the track with the new engine and transmission.

I made a few other mods to the car recently to get ready. New wider front rims and tires... replaced the Bilstein shocks with Hotchkis Tuned Fox shocks... and I modified the exhaust system with new mufflers and larger diameter tailpipes.

Here is a shot of the new 9" wide rims. The old rims were 8".

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/98f9f03f-b753-43f7-9446-2b240b5bc7c7_zpsb89cbbc6.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/98f9f03f-b753-43f7-9446-2b240b5bc7c7_zpsb89cbbc6.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/fee88862-f622-46df-800b-7ae6b70a2b93_zps973e5ccc.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/fee88862-f622-46df-800b-7ae6b70a2b93_zps973e5ccc.jpg.html)

I went with Nitto NT01's 255/40/ZR17 which is 10.35 inches wide (about 5/8" wider than what I had before). I added some adjustable stops on the Global West A-arms so I could prevent the inside of the tire from rubbing on the sub frame rail.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/c017e342-d511-45d4-8e19-cf420bf2b9e0_zps17a5fafb.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/c017e342-d511-45d4-8e19-cf420bf2b9e0_zps17a5fafb.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/DSC_0026_zps0e12ee00.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/DSC_0026_zps0e12ee00.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/5ebe1351-5782-4c74-a4c2-4a71579ba9be_zps6009eb6b.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/5ebe1351-5782-4c74-a4c2-4a71579ba9be_zps6009eb6b.jpg.html)

I took about 60 LBS off the front off the car with the new engine and increased the footprint of the front tire... this should help to balance out the handling and reduce the push some.

One other thing I want to do is mount a fire extinguisher to the DSE 4 point roll bar on the upright. Not sure what most guys are using... open to ideas.

:lateral:

rickpaw

05-31-2013, 05:13 AM

One other thing I want to do is mount a fire extinguisher to the DSE 4 point roll bar on the upright. Not sure what most guys are using... open to ideas.

:lateral:

Dale, I'm using a mount from Scott Drake (bought it from CJ pony parts).

http://www.cjponyparts.com/scott-drake-fire-extinguisher-mount/p/FEM/

Tu

DaleTx

06-19-2013, 10:38 PM

Over the past few weeks I have been doing some fine tuning on the car since I have finished the main job of installing the new LS engine, dry sump pump system, GM ECM, new fuel system, T56 magnum trans, and LS9 ZR1 twin disc hydraulic clutch set up.

Here is some of the stuff I have been working on… I changed out the 2-1/2” tailpipes for 3”. There was a noticeable difference... the engine breathes better now and the exhaust tone is deeper.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june162013084700x525_zps7c781e41.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june162013084700x525_zps7c781e41.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june162013083700x525_zps9690cc08.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june162013083700x525_zps9690cc08.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june162013081700x525_zps9adae11a.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june162013081700x525_zps9adae11a.jpg.html)

I replaced the Bilstein shocks with the new Hotchkis Tuned Fox Shocks

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/april1132653x490_zps2aebea1a.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/april1132653x490_zps2aebea1a.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/april1119653x490_zps34f3c7b5.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/april1119653x490_zps34f3c7b5.jpg.html)

The shafts on the Fox shocks are larger diameter than the Bilsteins

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/april1121653x490_zps839976ec.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/april1121653x490_zps839976ec.jpg.html)

The new shocks feel good on the street... not sure how they will work on the track yet... we'll see this Friday.

I brought the car in to have the camber, caster, and toe set up. I went with 1.5 degrees negative camber, 5.5 degrees caster, and zero on the toe

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-06-04151826_zps344e5dc6.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2013-06-04151826_zps344e5dc6.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-06-04152038_zps04eef96c.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2013-06-04152038_zps04eef96c.jpg.html)

Next... I installed some new bling!... Katech carbon fiber valves covers :cool:

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june162013067700x525_zps9f67b686.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june162013067700x525_zps9f67b686.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june162013066700x525_zps92aa9cc2.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june162013066700x525_zps92aa9cc2.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/69967733-8d34-4533-b6c6-613bf236783b_zpsd7d5454a.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/69967733-8d34-4533-b6c6-613bf236783b_zpsd7d5454a.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/80fcab08-1b2a-4357-bf83-9700b65ece33_zps63da7402.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/80fcab08-1b2a-4357-bf83-9700b65ece33_zps63da7402.jpg.html)

Next up... the new Halon fire extinguisher set up, and new digital tach with shift light. It's nice to have all the hard work behind me now so I can finally enjoy the car...

:relax:

Sieg

06-19-2013, 11:13 PM

Dale - Absolutely beautiful! :thumbsup:

Ron in SoCal

06-20-2013, 12:04 AM

Way to go Dale! Looking forward to your impression of the shocks and if the valve covers meet your expectations.

fleetus macmullitz

06-20-2013, 01:16 AM

Dale - Absolutely beautiful! :thumbsup:

X2! :thumbsup:

tubbed69

06-20-2013, 02:05 AM

motor is looking good Dale,nice car

Rick D

06-20-2013, 06:24 AM

Great job Dale! I love all the detail in your posts. This will be a good blue print for any one wanting todo this kind of upgrades :thumbsup: thanks for taking the time to post up for everyone!

glassman

06-20-2013, 07:42 AM

Very nice, thanx for the detailed write up. Everything looks first rate and very reliable...

Mike

DaleTx

06-20-2013, 10:23 PM

Dale - Absolutely beautiful! :thumbsup:

Thank you Sieg... appreciate the compliment!

Way to go Dale! Looking forward to your impression of the shocks and if the valve covers meet your expectations.

Thanks Ron, I have had some problems with the T&D shaft rockers hitting on the aluminum flanges on the new carbon fiber valve covers... I had to do some grinding to get clearance... I'll post up more details of the fix later on. It's really hard to find valve covers that will clear the T&D rockers. Yeah I'm looking forward to testing out the shocks tomorrow... and the other stuff!

X2! :thumbsup:

Thanks Skip!

motor is looking good Dale,nice car

Great job Dale! I love all the detail in your posts. This will be a good blue print for any one wanting todo this kind of upgrades :thumbsup: thanks for taking the time to post up for everyone!

Very nice, thanx for the detailed write up. Everything looks first rate and very reliable...

Mike

Thanks guys... appreciate all the kind words!

:thankyou:

garickman

06-20-2013, 10:40 PM

Thanks Ron, I have had some problems with the T&D shaft rockers hitting on the aluminum flanges on the new carbon fiber valve covers... I had to do some grinding to get clearance... I'll post up more details of the fix later on. It's really hard to find valve covers that will clear the T&D rockers.

Dale, just wondering what kind of a pain it was on the those valve covers. I have the Katech covers also and I will be running Comp Cams shaft rockers which I think are made by T&D. All my engine components just arrived to Wegner Motorsports this week. Casey Wegner warned me they were having trouble finding valve covers to clear shaft rockers on another build they were doing. I just got the valve covers so I have not shipped them to Wegner yet. Wondering what the work was to make them work so I can let Casey know.

DaleTx

06-20-2013, 11:12 PM

Dale, I'm using a mount from Scott Drake (bought it from CJ pony parts).

http://www.cjponyparts.com/scott-drake-fire-extinguisher-mount/p/FEM/

Tu

Thanks Rick.... I ended up getting a mount from HalGuard that clamped onto my DSE roll bar. This worked out good.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june162013033700x525_zps4565716d.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june162013033700x525_zps4565716d.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june162013032-Copy700x525_zpse92c6e2f.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june162013032-Copy700x525_zpse92c6e2f.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june162013035700x525_zps3780b4ec.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june162013035700x525_zps3780b4ec.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june162013045700x525_zpsbd05c3bb.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june162013045700x525_zpsbd05c3bb.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june162013042700x525_zps7d92e9ce.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june162013042700x525_zps7d92e9ce.jpg.html)

The fire extinguisher is an H3R HalGuard clean agent 2-1/2 lb Halon filled unit, and HalGuard brand mounts. Nice quality parts.

In prep for the track day tomorrow I also installed a digital tach with shift light. The stock tach built into the dash is difficult to see through the steering wheel. I programmed the shift light to come on at 6,900 rpm. The ECM controlled rev limiter is set at 7,200. The shift light is at the upper left side of the tach

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june202013013750x563_zpscc4f8ea9.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june202013013750x563_zpscc4f8ea9.jpg.html)

The big red light on the far left is a warning light that will come on if my oil pressure drops below 18 psi. The gauge to the right of the light is my wideband A/F gauge. I can pretty much keep an eye on all the important stuff with a glance now.

I'm packed up now and ready to get the car back out on the track tomorrow... :cool:

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june202013002750x563_zpsdcda9070.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june202013002750x563_zpsdcda9070.jpg.html)

New Contour action camera set up with remote Zoom mic.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june202013008750x563_zps23577651.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june202013008750x563_zps23577651.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june202013006750x563_zps384724c2.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june202013006750x563_zps384724c2.jpg.html)

I found a nice spot on my helmet for my new Lat-G decal :thumbsup:

DaleTx

06-20-2013, 11:15 PM

garickman

06-20-2013, 11:57 PM

Greg... I'll post up some pics tomorrow to show how I modified the covers...

Awesome, thanks Dale!

Flash68

06-21-2013, 12:29 AM

You go Dale... have a blast and be safe.

Ron in SoCal

06-21-2013, 10:04 AM

Post 186, FTW! Have fun and be safe Dale :thumbsup:

Bryan O

06-21-2013, 10:42 AM

DaleTx

06-21-2013, 10:27 PM

You go Dale... have a blast and be safe.

Post 186, FTW! Have fun and be safe Dale :thumbsup:

Thanks Guys :thumbsup: Wow... what a fun day!

The car ran great... the new engine is awesome on the track :D. Accelerates hard... rev's way up and runs super smooth. This was a whole new experience for me with the new engine and T56 trans. I will be running on adrenaline all weekend after this!

I have been doing this for several years now and this is the first time I have gone out on a track day and had zero leaks... no engine oil leaks ... no trans oil leaks... coolant leaks... or power steering fluid leaks. The engine ran at 180 degrees with no heating issues... I think having the dry sump system and extra volume of oil may play a part in this.

I took some video out on the track today and will post up tomorrow.

:lateral: :cheers:

DaleTx

06-21-2013, 10:35 PM

Dale,

I've really enjoyed your thread except I've come down with serious engine envy now. :)

Is the HalGuard fire extinguisher mount part # BB250P? I wanted to make sure before I ordered one.

Thanks

Bryan

Thanks Bryan!

Here is the info on the fire extinguisher and mounts thatI used...
part number for fire extinguisher: HTR-HG250B
part number for billet sleeve that fits fire extinguisher: HTR-BMR01B
Part number for 1-5/8" band clamp that fits DSE roll bar: HTR-BB250B

:thumbsup:

Sieg

06-21-2013, 10:41 PM

CarlC

06-21-2013, 11:49 PM

Isn't it great when you pull off the track with no drama? That's attention to detail in all respects. Nicely done.

How was your front tire wear?

I may get in touch with you about the LS9 clutch. I may have to go that route.

GregWeld

06-22-2013, 08:03 AM

Nice to hear you had a successful outing! It's a little nerve wracking to the build up.... so good to know everything went even better than planned.

I swear every time I wipe a little oil drip from under the rear seal area of the '32.... I'm going to rip it out and stick a LS motor in there! Maybe that's why the '33 is being built with one... ya think?

:lol:

DaleTx

06-23-2013, 01:34 AM

Awesome! How was the trans? Shifting a little balky? Mine has just over 1.5K miles now and it's shifting noticeably smoother. Great job of wrenching to have a no incident first track day. :thumbsup:

Can't wait to see the video and number of NRE victims. :thumbsup:

Thanks Sieg :thumbsup: I was happy not to have any mechanical issues. The trans shifted great...I had to get used to shifting down from 4th to 3rd... a couple times I almost went into 5th. I think I broke in the trans pretty good out at PIR, I gave it a good test for sure!

Isn't it great when you pull off the track with no drama? That's attention to detail in all respects. Nicely done.

How was your front tire wear?

I may get in touch with you about the LS9 clutch. I may have to go that route.

Thank you Carl, I appreciate the compliment.... The front end was set up pretty well, I had even temps and across the face of the tire. I was running NT01's at 34 psi cold on the front tires. The tires did show some wear but not excessive. The car is very close to being balanced now with the lighter weight on the front end with the aluminum LS engine. The lighter weight on the front was very noticeable.

Give me a call anytime to talk clutches... the LS9 clutch has great grip... is very quiet... and will take lots of abuse :thumbsup:

Nice to hear you had a successful outing! It's a little nerve wracking to the build up.... so good to know everything went even better than planned.

I swear every time I wipe a little oil drip from under the rear seal area of the '32.... I'm going to rip it out and stick a LS motor in there! Maybe that's why the '33 is being built with one... ya think?

:lol:

Thanks Greg! ... you are absolutely right on, it is very nerve wracking getting out on the track for the first time after making lots of changes to the car... I couldn't be happier now... it all worked out great.

It's tough to beat the LS engines... I'm glad I don't have to fight the oil leaks anymore!

DaleTx

06-23-2013, 01:44 AM

Here is a 9 minute video segment from one of the HPDE sessions I ran on Friday. I used my new contour camera mounted on the passenger window with a remote mic laying on the floor. Peak speeds on the front and back straights was 120 - 125 mph on a good lap.

The video starts after everyone has spread out and I have some open space... I was trying to catch the yellow Lotus!

V-x_1Inn0bc

:lateral:

Flash68

06-23-2013, 02:24 AM

I was trying to catch the yellow Lotus!

:lateral:

That Lotus didn't stand a chance.

Looked like you had a blast out there. Very nice looking track as well.

tubbed69

06-23-2013, 08:11 AM

nice video Dale,looks like alot of fun

Ron in SoCal

06-23-2013, 08:49 AM

Great vid Dale! :thumbsup: Definitely not a momentum car :D

214Chevy

06-23-2013, 11:45 AM

Enjoyed the video. :popcorn2: Motor sounds were music to my ears. :thumbsup:

Sieg

06-23-2013, 02:22 PM

Nice and smooth buddy. :thumbsup:

Vince@Meanstreets

06-23-2013, 02:31 PM

Awesome dale

Track Junky

06-23-2013, 04:45 PM

Looking good out there. Try and get yourself a pyrometer to check front tire temps to dial in front camber. Chalking the outsides of your tires is a good way to dial in air pressures.
Also, dont be afaid to experiment with brake pads. You'd be amazed how much time you can make up driving deeper into the corners.

PTAddict

06-23-2013, 06:28 PM

Hey Dale, where in the NW are you? Portland here. We should make it a point to be at PIR, ORP, or RMP at the same event one of these weekends.

Great car, good to see you're out there driving it the way it was built to be driven :thumbsup:

DaleTx

06-23-2013, 08:45 PM

That Lotus didn't stand a chance.

Looked like you had a blast out there. Very nice looking track as well.

nice video Dale,looks like alot of fun

Great vid Dale! :thumbsup: Definitely not a momentum car :D

Enjoyed the video. :popcorn2: Motor sounds were music to my ears. :thumbsup:

Nice and smooth buddy. :thumbsup:

Awesome dale

Thanks guys... appreciate the kind words about the video :thankyou:. I had a great time at PIR and look forward to the next time! The car is a whole different animal now with the new engine... it was quite a rush for me to say the least. The engine is a screamer... pulls hard and picks up speed very quickly. I never got over 6K rpm in 4th gear... which is 125 mph. The peak power on this engine is 7K... at his point I can't imagine going up to 7K in 4th :headspin: I think I might need to do some more work on the chassis and suspension now (leafs need to go).

The most fun was coming around turn 12... entering the main straight up against the wall... shifting into 4th... listening to the engine wail, and then thinking how far can I go and still make the turn... that moment is gold. I felt like I was on the edge a couple of times coming into the chicane (most fun part of the track).

:lateral: :cheers:

Looking good out there. Try and get yourself a pyrometer to check front tire temps to dial in front camber. Chalking the outsides of your tires is a good way to dial in air pressures.
Also, dont be afaid to experiment with brake pads. You'd be amazed how much time you can make up driving deeper into the corners.

Thanks for the tips... appreciate it :thumbsup: Do you have any recommendations for brake pads to try? Right now I have the Baer Track PBR 4-wheel disc brake set up with ceramic matrix pads.

Hey Dale, where in the NW are you? Portland here. We should make it a point to be at PIR, ORP, or RMP at the same event one of these weekends.

Great car, good to see you're out there driving it the way it was built to be driven :thumbsup:

Thanks Scott! I saw the You Tube video of your car out at PIR... looked good. I live just north of Vancouver Washington. I would be very interested to meet up at a track day event with you... let me know.

DaleTx

06-23-2013, 10:13 PM

Dale, just wondering what kind of a pain it was on the those valve covers. I have the Katech covers also and I will be running Comp Cams shaft rockers which I think are made by T&D. All my engine components just arrived to Wegner Motorsports this week. Casey Wegner warned me they were having trouble finding valve covers to clear shaft rockers on another build they were doing. I just got the valve covers so I have not shipped them to Wegner yet. Wondering what the work was to make them work so I can let Casey know.

Greg... I tried several different options to try and find valve covers that would clear the T&D shaft rockers. The Katech valve covers are the only ones that even came close to fitting. I started out with their cast aluminum covers... ran them for a while... then bought a set of carbon fiber valve covers. Both sets had to be modified to clear the rockers.

I tried stock LS covers with 1/2 inch spacers, Holley aluminum valve covers, and neither would clear the rockers without major modifications. The Katech covers required the least amount of grinding to fit. I am using GM LS7 heads and the T&D shaft rockers with 1.8 ratio. Not sure exactly what your running.

Here is a shot of the T&D rockers... they come right up next to the rails... Nutter had to modify the rockers and heads slightly just to get some clearance.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012018_zps60fc38bd.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012018_zps60fc38bd.jpg.html)

Here are some shots of how I modified the Carbon fiber covers for clearance

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012006_zpsa91d11e0.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012006_zpsa91d11e0.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012008_zpsd155711f.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012008_zpsd155711f.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012022_zps221e8153.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012022_zps221e8153.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012010_zps49cdb203.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012010_zps49cdb203.jpg.html)

When I mounted the modified valve covers I pushed them up towards the fuel rails a much as possible... the rubber o-ring seal will end up right on the edge of the lip on the head. It is a very tight fit for sure.. but I was able to modify the covers and make it work.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/8f8f51ee-ae50-4dc0-8ad6-8ed88a33ae42_zpse6844c7d.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/8f8f51ee-ae50-4dc0-8ad6-8ed88a33ae42_zpse6844c7d.jpg.html)

Hope that answered your question... it's always a pain for the engine builder when they have to do extra work to make things fit. You just don't have a lot of options to clear the T&D 1.8 rockers.

Sieg

06-23-2013, 10:41 PM

Do you have any recommendations for brake pads to try? Right now I have the Baer Track PBR 4-wheel disc brake set up with ceramic matrix pads.
Tobin recommended Hawk HP Plus to me for street and track compromise. While I haven't had them on the track yet they work well on the street, they don't require preheating to stop at the first stop sign you come to, and they're pretty quite. As he warned they generate dust and will wear rotors........THEY GENERATE DUST! but visually the rotor wear doesn't appear extreme. Did I mention they generate dust? :D

What's the old saying...........drive hard into the braking zone until you see God then stand on the brakes!

Hard to say from watching the video or feeling the chassis coming into and under braking but it looked like you were off the throttle well before the 500 mark and coasting into the braking zone. Start challenging yourself and the car on a corner that has no penalties if you go in too deep. Pick a throttle off point and brakes on point and gradually shorten them up until you get on the edge of not apexing the corner properly. Then you can confidently apply those references to most braking marker zones. Off-chambers, elevation changes, bumps/seams, brake over-heating, greasy tires, etc. need to be compensated for.

Once you learn your braking points around the track(s) you should see lap times improve. Also create drive-out reference markers past the apex point to aim the car at while rolling into the throttle they can serve as a point where you should be able to deliver maximum throttle for available traction.

You appear to have one of the toughest skills mastered......smooth. Most really fast drivers are really smooth. How they become really consistent is through establishing and adhering to personal reference points on the track.
:thumbsup:

garickman

06-23-2013, 10:41 PM

Greg... I tried several different options to try and find valve covers that would clear the T&D shaft rockers. The Katech valve covers are the only ones that even came close to fitting. I started out with their cast aluminum covers... ran them for a while... then bought a set of carbon fiber valve covers. Both sets had to be modified to clear the rockers.

I tried stock LS covers with 1/2 inch spacers, Holley aluminum valve covers, and neither would clear the rockers without major modifications. The Katech covers required the least amount of grinding to fit. I am using GM LS7 heads and the T&D shaft rockers with 1.8 ratio. Not sure exactly what your running.

Here is a shot of the T&D rockers... they come right up next to the rails... Nutter had to modify the rockers and heads slightly just to get some clearance.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012018_zps60fc38bd.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012018_zps60fc38bd.jpg.html)

Here are some shots of how I modified the Carbon fiber covers for clearance

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012006_zpsa91d11e0.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012006_zpsa91d11e0.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012008_zpsd155711f.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012008_zpsd155711f.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012022_zps221e8153.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012022_zps221e8153.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012010_zps49cdb203.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/june%2023%202013/may292012010_zps49cdb203.jpg.html)

When I mounted the modified valve covers I pushed them up towards the fuel rails a much as possible... the rubber o-ring seal will end up right on the edge of the lip on the head. It is a very tight fit for sure.. but I was able to modify the covers and make it work.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/8f8f51ee-ae50-4dc0-8ad6-8ed88a33ae42_zpse6844c7d.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/8f8f51ee-ae50-4dc0-8ad6-8ed88a33ae42_zpse6844c7d.jpg.html)

Hope that answered your question... it's always a pain for the engine builder when they have to do extra work to make things fit. You just don't have a lot of options to clear the T&D 1.8 rockers.

Awesome post Dale, that really helps me out. Thanks for posting so much detail. It's people like you that make this such a great site.

Ron in SoCal

06-23-2013, 11:10 PM

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/june%202013/8f8f51ee-ae50-4dc0-8ad6-8ed88a33ae42_zpse6844c7d.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/june%202013/8f8f51ee-ae50-4dc0-8ad6-8ed88a33ae42_zpse6844c7d.jpg.html)

Dale - what do you have on top of your throttle body, a spacer?

DaleTx

06-23-2013, 11:31 PM

Tobin recommended Hawk HP Plus to me for street and track compromise. While I haven't had them on the track yet they work well on the street, they don't require preheating to stop at the first stop sign you come to, and they're pretty quite. As he warned they generate dust and will wear rotors........THEY GENERATE DUST! but visually the rotor wear doesn't appear extreme. Did I mention they generate dust? :D

What's the old saying...........drive hard into the braking zone until you see God then stand on the brakes!

Hard to say from watching the video or feeling the chassis coming into and under braking but it looked like you were off the throttle well before the 500 mark and coasting into the braking zone. Start challenging yourself and the car on a corner that has no penalties if you go in too deep. Pick a throttle off point and brakes on point and gradually shorten them up until you get on the edge of not apexing the corner properly. Then you can confidently apply those references to most braking marker zones. Off-chambers, elevation changes, bumps/seams, brake over-heating, greasy tires, etc. need to be compensated for.

Once you learn your braking points around the track(s) you should see lap times improve. Also create drive-out reference markers past the apex point to aim the car at while rolling into the throttle they can serve as a point where you should be able to deliver maximum throttle for available traction.

You appear to have one of the toughest skills mastered......smooth. Most really fast drivers are really smooth. How they become really consistent is through establishing and adhering to personal reference points on the track.
:thumbsup:

Thanks Sieg... I really appreciate your comments about driving techniques. Up to this point I have been focusing on learning the proper lines on the track and hitting the apexes and not as much about lap times. I'm at the point now where I'm out there ripping around and feel totally comfortable and consistant. Now I need to work on braking later and getting on it harder out of the corners like you said.

Getting the camera was a good thing... it was nice to sit back on Saturday morning and watch the runs... I saw the same things you mentioned. I look forward to improving the skills, pushing it and getting sideways a bit more. :thumbsup:

DaleTx

06-23-2013, 11:41 PM

Dale - what do you have on top of your throttle body, a spacer?

Ron... The air filter spacer is made by "Allstar Performance" Summit # ALL26087. They make all different heights and they seal with an O-ring, nice part.

DaleTx

06-23-2013, 11:43 PM

Awesome post Dale, that really helps me out. Thanks for posting so much detail. It's people like you that make this such a great site.

No problem Rick.. hope it works out, they are a nice cover.

Sieg

06-23-2013, 11:48 PM

Thanks Sieg... I really appreciate your comments about driving techniques. Up to this point I have been focusing on learning the proper lines on the track and hitting the apexes and not as much about lap times. I'm at the point now where I'm out there ripping around and feel totally comfortable and consistant. Now I need to work on braking later and getting on it harder out of the corners like you said.

Getting the camera was a good thing... it was nice to sit back on Saturday morning and watch the runs... I saw the same things you mentioned. I look forward to improving the skills, pushing it and getting sideways a bit more. :thumbsup:

All said...I tell ya... I felt a bit like the intimidator out there on Friday... it seemed like a lot of guys were just waving me by without even trying... it is fun to be fast as he** coming out of the corners and onto the straights, Lol

:cheers:
:woot: :woot:

I was hoping my lens would come in early Friday instead of 4:15, seriously wanted to buzz up there and shoot some pics of you and listen to the intimidator! :thumbsup:

DaleTx

06-24-2013, 12:15 AM

:woot: :woot:

I was hoping my lens would come in early Friday instead of 4:15, seriously wanted to buzz up there and shoot some pics of you and listen to the intimidator! :thumbsup:

Sieg please.... before you buy another camera lens go out and buy a wide band A/F gauge for your Camaro, :poke:

Sieg

06-24-2013, 12:28 AM

Sieg please.... before you buy another camera lens go out and buy a wide band A/F gauge for your Camaro, :poke:
I hear you - Exhaust from collectors to muffler first......need a bung for the o2 sensor and it would be wrong to weld one in to the existing cobbled up mess. :D

PTAddict

06-24-2013, 08:07 PM

Tobin recommended Hawk HP Plus to me for street and track compromise. While I haven't had them on the track yet they work well on the street, they don't require preheating to stop at the first stop sign you come to, and they're pretty quite. As he warned they generate dust and will wear rotors........THEY GENERATE DUST! but visually the rotor wear doesn't appear extreme. Did I mention they generate dust? :D

What's the old saying...........drive hard into the braking zone until you see God then stand on the brakes!

Hard to say from watching the video or feeling the chassis coming into and under braking but it looked like you were off the throttle well before the 500 mark and coasting into the braking zone. Start challenging yourself and the car on a corner that has no penalties if you go in too deep. Pick a throttle off point and brakes on point and gradually shorten them up until you get on the edge of not apexing the corner properly. Then you can confidently apply those references to most braking marker zones. Off-chambers, elevation changes, bumps/seams, brake over-heating, greasy tires, etc. need to be compensated for.

Once you learn your braking points around the track(s) you should see lap times improve. Also create drive-out reference markers past the apex point to aim the car at while rolling into the throttle they can serve as a point where you should be able to deliver maximum throttle for available traction.

You appear to have one of the toughest skills mastered......smooth. Most really fast drivers are really smooth. How they become really consistent is through establishing and adhering to personal reference points on the track.
:thumbsup:

I used the Baer track system on my previous car, a '71 Camaro with modded LS3 and full-on Global West suspension. As I learned the track and accumulated seat time, I found that dedicated racing pads and high-temp racing fluid were a necessity for the Track system to be even marginally workable. There's just not a whole lot of pad and rotor there to handle the thermal load of repeatedly hauling down 3500+ lb from 130+ MPH. From experience, using street or hybrid pads, if you continue to push the braking zones to the limit as Sieg suggests you will eventually experience the thrill of full-on brake fade. Not recommended for the weak of heart. Or, come to think of it, for the normal of heart either.

After some experimentation, I eventually ended up using Carbotech race pads for the track, XP12 front compound and XP10 rear. Then I'd switch back to the Carbotech street pads for street use - the race pads squeak like the very devil. The Carbotech formulations use the same "deposit layer" for both street and race pads, meaning you don't have to have dedicated track rotors separately bedded. The only problem is, the C4 pads are not just small but also quite thin and thus wear out much faster than the bigger, thicker pads used by the more ambitious big brake packages. And race pads ain't cheap.

I think Sieg's recommendation of the Hawk HP plus is not a bad one for a learning track driver. Just be sensitive to when your pedal pressure seems unusually high, or your pedal height unusually low, and back off a bit for a lap or two. When that gets too annoying, time for the next step :)

DaleTx

06-24-2013, 09:31 PM

I used the Baer track system on my previous car, a '71 Camaro with modded LS3 and full-on Global West suspension. As I learned the track and accumulated seat time, I found that dedicated racing pads and high-temp racing fluid were a necessity for the Track system to be even marginally workable. There's just not a whole lot of pad and rotor there to handle the thermal load of repeatedly hauling down 3500+ lb from 130+ MPH. From experience, using street or hybrid pads, if you continue to push the braking zones to the limit as Sieg suggests you will eventually experience the thrill of full-on brake fade. Not recommended for the weak of heart. Or, come to think of it, for the normal of heart either.

After some experimentation, I eventually ended up using Carbotech race pads for the track, XP12 front compound and XP10 rear. Then I'd switch back to the Carbotech street pads for street use - the race pads squeak like the very devil. The Carbotech formulations use the same "deposit layer" for both street and race pads, meaning you don't have to have dedicated track rotors separately bedded. The only problem is, the C4 pads are not just small but also quite thin and thus wear out much faster than the bigger, thicker pads used by the more ambitious big brake packages. And race pads ain't cheap.

I think Sieg's recommendation of the Hawk HP plus is not a bad one for a learning track driver. Just be sensitive to when your pedal pressure seems unusually high, or your pedal height unusually low, and back off a bit for a lap or two. When that gets too annoying, time for the next step :)

Thanks Scott... appreciate the great info on the brake pads.

I went back and watched your video out at PIR and your times were in the 1 min 28 second range compared to my 1 min 34 second range... that is quite a spread. My goal now is to get below 1 min 30 sec.

I Just got an email from Cascade Sports Car Club and the next track day events at PIR are on Aug. 9th, and Sept. 6th. I am going to sign up early for the Aug 9th track day. Let me know if you are interested in that event or if you have something else in mind. Look forward to meeting you some time... thanks again for the brake set up info!

It would be great if there are any other Oregon Washington Lat G members that would want to hit PIR in August...

:lateral:

DaleTx

06-24-2013, 09:42 PM

Here is one more video from the Track Day event last Friday. This one I shortened up from the last one. This is the 3rd session and I was picking up speed a bit and trying to go into turn 10 in 4th gear instead of third… I’m still letting off the gas to early and braking to early like Sieg mentioned. I really do appreciate Siegs feedback… that’s how a guy improves :thumbsup:

In this video I ended up running out of gas at full speed on the back straight right after passing a black Mustang… this happened on the last lap (5:18 in video) and I was able to coast back to the pits all the way to my parking spot! My fuel consumption at this event was 3 mpg. I went through nearly two tanks. Now I know for next time to always have a a minimum of half a tank before going out.

I do have a comment on the new Hotchkis Tuned Fox Shocks…. I am a big fan of Hotchkis stuff and have a bunch of their parts on my car. After running the new Fox shocks on the track I was not impressed. They worked great on the street and had a little better ride than the Bilsteins, but on the track they didn’t feel right to me. The front of the car would start bouncing at high speed on a couple of sections on the track…. You can see it in the video on the front and back straight. I didn’t care for the bouncing… my Bilsteins didn’t do this. I have 600 lb coils on the front of my car and I don’t think the shocks had enough dampening. The Fox shocks didn’t work for me… I am going back to the Bilsteins. This is my 2 cents after trying them… the Foxes are better on the street than the Bilsteins but not as good on the track… and unfortunately they are not adjustable.

jmh_t42-d84

Sieg

06-24-2013, 10:40 PM

Hate to say it but you need to buy shocks on par with that motor big boy. You're not exactly playing in the little league anymore.

It's only money. :bang:

The motor sounds sooo good, you'll be under 1:30's in know time once you acclimate to the "new" car. :thumbsup:

DaleTx

06-24-2013, 11:10 PM

Thanks Sieg... now I have my next winter project lined up... get rid of the leaf springs and do some kind of 4 link set up and new shocks... time to do more research.

Hope to visit with you at PIR in August or September possibly...

PTAddict

06-25-2013, 10:19 AM

Here are the track days currently on my calendar:

July 26-27 Oregon Raceway Park (Oregon Porsche Club of America)
August 5 PIR (marquecarsusa.com)
August 17 Ridge Motorsports Park (BMW club)

Might add something in September as well. The Porsche and BMW clubs run very good track days, and have a group of strong instructors who tend to cross over between clubs. A good instructor is very valuable, I've found, especially when learning tracks. And they're more than happy to have cars of other makes sign up - they need a significant number of attendees just to break even on those events.

The ORP events usually require you to be signed off at least as an intermediate, solo driver to be able to run. ORP is a pretty technical track, a total blast to drive but not easy to learn on.

The Marque Cars event is associated with the annual Rose City Corvette Club get together the weekend before, so most of the cars are obviously Vettes of various kinds. There's usually a low-key Autocross event the day before (Sunday).

The Marque Cars club, and the BMW club, have allowed passengers to ride along in the past. The other clubs don't.

When it comes to suspension mods on your car, I wouldn't be too quick to go multi-link rear. My previous 2nd gen used Global West CAT5 leaf springs in the rear, and I think it was pretty much as stable as my current car with DSE Quadralink. The front end on the first gens is where to focus first - the stock suspension geometry is an all-purpose disaster, with terrible camber curves and wildly unstable roll center. Longer spindles and/or lower upper control arm mounting are first order of business.

I think some of that bouncy feel you're attributing to shocks might just be the track itself. In particular, there's a section of the back straight at PIR, just past turn 9, that is bumpy and uneven. It makes any car feel spooky and unstable, and it's worse in cars like ours where you sit up higher. The turn 2-3 area is a bit that way as well.

DaleTx

06-25-2013, 08:33 PM

Scott… thanks for the info on the tracks days... I’ve been wanting to try someplace other than PIR. I will research those tracks you metioned and then make plans to attend one of the events. I remember seeing your car outside the main entrance at SEMA a few years ago and it looked great! Look forward to meeting you, and seeing your car run :thumbsup:

I have done quite a bit of work on the front of my car so far, including... Global West tubular upper and lower A-arms, ½” taller than stock upper ball joints, Global West solid aluminum body bushings, Hotchkis 1-1/8” diameter front sway bar, 600 LB front coil springs, Bilstein tuned shocks, and recently changed to the Fox tuned shocks.

In the back I have Hotchkis drop multi-leaf springs, rear sway bar, sub-frame connectors and a DSE 4 pt roll bar. I do like the way the car handles with my current set up. The car handles good, feels stable, and is nicely balanced since I put in the lighter weight LS engine.

The only problem now is with the extra HP of the new engine the leaf springs seem to be wrapping a little under hard acceleration. I had to reposition the rear axle down 3 degrees to compensate. I will look into the CAT5 leafs you mentioned… maybe that is the solution. I just don't want to have any driveline issues out on the track.

I’m really not sure what to think of the Hotchkis Fox shocks… I have driven out at PIR lots of times with the Bilsteins and didn’t get near as much bounce. Both shocks feel stable but I just like the feel of the Bilsteins. What kind of shocks are you running?

PTAddict

06-25-2013, 09:45 PM

Sieg

06-25-2013, 10:47 PM

Dale - I have Global West rear leafs, not sure how they compare to the new generation of part numbers. I just emailed them my part number (31-245-1) and asked them to translate my spring rate to their new part #'s. They're relatively stiff, I'd guess they're L2's.

I've been considering the Cat5 bearing/bushing because of this marketing statement:
2.The spherical bearing and bushing combination do not allow the leaf springs to move laterally. Standard rubber and polyurethane bushings do,therefore using a CAT-5 system eliminates the use of a panhard rod or any other lateral-locating device.

With my transverse muffler a panhard rod or Watts Link isn't an option.

You're more than welcome to drive my car if the springs end up being what you're considering.

Marc at SC&C is a wealth of knowledge, just be prepared to spend 45-60 minutes on the phone and have a notepad handy. :thumbsup:

Flash68

06-26-2013, 12:44 AM

Hate to say it but you need to buy shocks on par with that motor big boy. You're not exactly playing in the little league anymore.

You guys all realize that Fox manufactures the shocks for Ridetech right? You know, the "must have" shocks of many of today's pro touring cars?

I believe that JRI's can be upgraded from single to the multi-adjustable with what you already have... can you do that with the Fox/Ridetech/Hotchkis? Just thinking out loud...

The CAT-5 is also an awesome leaf spring setup and about as good as it gets for leafs. Some killer cars run that.

Sieg

06-26-2013, 07:14 AM

You guys all realize that Fox manufactures the shocks for Ridetech right? You know, the "must have" shocks of many of today's pro touring cars?

I believe that JRI's can be upgraded from single to the multi-adjustable with what you already have... can you do that with the Fox/Ridetech/Hotchkis? Just thinking out loud...

The CAT-5 is also an awesome leaf spring setup and about as good as it gets for leafs. Some killer cars run that.
Yes, as an old off-roader I've known Fox for years. But Fox, like with any good shock manufacturer, you're not going to get their best valving with their "entry level" performance line. I've also ran Bilsteins on a car (in the 80's) and there's something magical about the way their valving ramps up as you push the vehicle harder.

The KTM 300 Dale just picked up has exceptional suspension and I'm anticipating he'll expect similar performance from the shocks on his Camaro now that he's taken it to another level with a killer motor and trans combo he's exploited the chassis' weaknesses. IMO - He's ready for serious 3 way valving and another brake upgrade won't be too far off. In no way am I knocking Ridetech/Hotchkis/Fox as their 3-way products appear to perform well as do a few others. It's big money, but I've never regretted an investment in top-notch shocks.

You can make up for a weak motor with good brakes and suspension............with my limited experience it doesn't work the other way around. :headspin:

Good to know regarding the GW Cat5's - Thanks :thumbsup:

GregWeld

06-26-2013, 08:11 AM

Mary Pozzi seemed to do just fine with leaf springs...

Just sayin'

:secret:

Al Moreno

06-26-2013, 06:09 PM

Yeah I worded that wrong... I used a 3.5 gallon tank that is mounted in the trunk. The tank was custom built to my specs by Stef's (see link below). I chose one of their standard dirt track tanks (part No. 4155) and had them modify it. They sent me a drawing of the stock tank and then I marked up the drawing and changed the width slightly so I could get 3.5 gallons. My tank holds 3.5 gallons when half full.

The tanks are very well made and engineered correctly with special internal baffles and plates designed to deaerate the oil. A.C. Nutter (my engine builder) helped me to size the tank. He has lots of experience with dry sump systems and he said to use a 3 to 4 gallon tank minimum if it's mounted in the trunk. The advantage to running larger tanks is that the oil has more time to deareate before getting pumped back into the engine.

I have had good results with this set up. I installed a 4 stage dry sump pump, plumbing, and tank set up in the car last August and have run the car on the street since then, and one HPDE track day last September with no oiling problems. My oil pressure is about 40 psi at idle and 60 psi when cruising.

Here are some pics of the set up

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april282013028_zps757b3109.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april282013028_zps757b3109.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april282013027_zps01470492.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april282013027_zps01470492.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april282013022_zps97af8e0f.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april282013022_zps97af8e0f.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april282013025_zps146acf3d.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april282013025_zps146acf3d.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2012-12-15132619-1-1_zps14570e95.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2012-12-15132619-1-1_zps14570e95.jpg.html)

About $140 worth of oil for one oil change!

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/april1117_zps152ce2cf.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/april1117_zps152ce2cf.jpg.html)

I'll post more on the whole set up later... I just wanted to get you the info on the tank. Here is the link to their website... I worked with Stan:
www.stefsperformance.net/stefs-fabrication/products/sump-tanks

I started with tank #4155 under "custom dry sump tank assemblies". Stef'sdoes the custom tanks all the time... very good guys to work with. I decide to mount the tank in the trunk so I could keep things cleaner looking under the hood and I wanted to keep the battery, ECM, and fuel pump controller up in the right front of the car for easy access and better cooling.

Love this build, keep up the great work. We are looking at doing a dry sump set up and also mounting the tank in the trunk. Question for you, how do you fill the tank? It looks like the lid sits under the package tray panel and kinda hard to get at.

DaleTx

06-26-2013, 08:11 PM

Love this build, keep up the great work. We are looking at doing a dry sump set up and also mounting the tank in the trunk. Question for you, how do you fill the tank? It looks like the lid sits under the package tray panel and kinda hard to get at.

Thank you Al!

You are right… there is no easy access to the large cap on top of the tank. The purpose for that large cap really is to be able to get inside the tank to clean it out. Since I was tight on space on top… I added a bung on the side of the tank that is at the oil fill level. If you look at the first picture you can see the brass plug with the square head on the side of the tank.

To fill the dry sump system for an oil change I remove the brass plug, and use a funnel to fill the tank until the oil runs out the hole. That is the level the tank is designed to run at. When I add 14 quarts of oil into the system (including the oil in the oil filter and lines) for a fresh oil change... the oil just starts to come out the hole. The tank is designed to run at that level. There is a baffle inside the tank right above the bung. The extra volume left over in the tank is to allow for oil level fluctuations as the rpm of the engine changes.

On the bottom of the tank there is another bung with a removable plug for draining the tank. I drilled a hole in the floor of the trunk for access to the drain plug. The oil tank set up in the trunk works good… If I ever need to clean the tank out I can un-bolt the tank and remove it.

Also… the reason I mounted the tank up high in the trunk is so the oil will gravity feed into the oil line that feeds the pressure section on the pump. I wanted to make sure the pump always had a head of oil.

:lateral:

Al Moreno

06-26-2013, 08:54 PM

DaleTx

06-26-2013, 09:13 PM

Thanks Dale! We have 17 inch from the floor of the trunk to the top of the package tray. The tanks is 14 1/4 so we don't have a lot of room to mount it higher. The floor of the trunk is 21" off the ground and I'm guesstimating the pump will sit about 16" off the ground giving us about a 5" difference. Do you think that will be enough of a difference?

We are planning on using a Bailey pan and pump which will also allow us to drop the engine an inch closer the ground.

Thanks for the help!

Al... I just went out and measured mine. The floor of my trunk is 17.5" off the ground, and the bottom of my oil tank is 19.5" off the ground. The inlet for the pressure section of my oil pump is at 15.5" off the ground. So my tank is 4" above the pump... so you're even better at 5".

Glad to help out :thumbsup:

DaleTx

06-26-2013, 10:24 PM

Dale,

My '71 was originally set up with Hotchkis front and rear springs, Hotchkis/Bilstein shocks, Hotchkis front sway bar. It worked pretty well, but the rear dipped quite a bit on acceleration, and I didn't get the quite the drive off corners I thought I should. The CAT5 springs were quite a transformation - the rear dip was gone, the car really hooked off corners, and the overall feel was more stable and locked down. On the flip side, the ride was significantly harder on the street, but not enough that it bothered me.

The CAT5 springs use solid spherical bushings at the spring eyes, which eliminate twist along the long axis of the spring and thus in theory reduce leaf-to-leaf rubbing and binding. And they're very stiff in the front half of the spring, so the spring acts more like a control arm, doesn't wind up much at all, and has greater anti-squat effect. It all seemed to work very well for me, at least in that application.

As I said, on the 2nd gen I used the Bilsteins to begin with, and later switched to adjustable AFCOs sourced from Global West. The AFCOs were an improvement, but not huge. On my current '69, I use Detroit Speed double adjustables. I set them initially to the baseline that Kyle and Stacy gave me, and I've never had to move them more than one click from that baseline. That's one of the advantages of buying from a premium vendor like DSE - they've done almost all of the testing and experimentation I'd have to do myself.

Just my opinion, if it was me I'd go back to the Bilsteins for now, sort out what you want to do with the rear suspension, then work with a trusted vendor to see what shock package matches your combination and goals.

Scott... Thanks for all the great info! What you described with the rear end dipping on your 71 under acceleration is exactly what I am experiencing. Thanks for steering me to the Global West CAT-5 leafs. I called them today and placed an order for a set with 2" drop. They said the CAT-5's are a good set up for the track and will support HP levels of 600 to 700. I think this is a good next step for the suspension on my car. Also, I have done enough work on the car in the past year... and just want to enjoy it for a while now. Changing leafs will be a breeze compared to changing to a 4-link set up. Thanks for offering some great insight and solutions :thumbsup:

Dale - I have Global West rear leafs, not sure how they compare to the new generation of part numbers. I just emailed them my part number (31-245-1) and asked them to translate my spring rate to their new part #'s. They're relatively stiff, I'd guess they're L2's.

You're more than welcome to drive my car if the springs end up being what you're considering.

Marc at SC&C is a wealth of knowledge, just be prepared to spend 45-60 minutes on the phone and have a notepad handy. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the great info Sieg! Appreciate the offer to drive your car. I'm committed now... I'm not to much worried if the ride is a little stiff.

You guys all realize that Fox manufactures the shocks for Ridetech right? You know, the "must have" shocks of many of today's pro touring cars?

I believe that JRI's can be upgraded from single to the multi-adjustable with what you already have... can you do that with the Fox/Ridetech/Hotchkis? Just thinking out loud...

The CAT-5 is also an awesome leaf spring setup and about as good as it gets for leafs. Some killer cars run that.

Thanks Dave! appreciate the feedback on the CAT-5 leafs... can't wait to try them out.

Yes, as an old off-roader I've known Fox for years. But Fox, like with any good shock manufacturer, you're not going to get their best valving with their "entry level" performance line. I've also ran Bilsteins on a car (in the 80's) and there's something magical about the way their valving ramps up as you push the vehicle harder.

The KTM 300 Dale just picked up has exceptional suspension and I'm anticipating he'll expect similar performance from the shocks on his Camaro now that he's taken it to another level with a killer motor and trans combo he's exploited the chassis' weaknesses. IMO - He's ready for serious 3 way valving and another brake upgrade won't be too far off. In no way am I knocking Ridetech/Hotchkis/Fox as their 3-way products appear to perform well as do a few others. It's big money, but I've never regretted an investment in top-notch shocks.

You can make up for a weak motor with good brakes and suspension............with my limited experience it doesn't work the other way around. :headspin:

Good to know regarding the GW Cat5's - Thanks :thumbsup:

Sieg... I totally agree with you on this. Fox does make great stuff, but the shocks I got are "entry level", and designed to work under a wide range of applications and uses... I am very attuned to the handling on my car now after several years of tweaking, and I know they are just not quite what I was looking for... but that doesn't mean they won't be great for other applications. I am probably at that point where I need some adjustibility in a shock like you said.

I went back and read Carl C's post about the Hotchkis tuned Fox shocks and he said they worked great after some fine tuning by the guys from Fox. He made a comment that after the tuning, the shocks were "much more composed" so maybe he was also experiencing some bounce in stock form.

Mary Pozzi seemed to do just fine with leaf springs...

Just sayin'

:secret:

That works for me, new leafs on the way! ... I'm sure Mary could do quite well with just about any set up though, Lol

:lateral:

Sieg

06-27-2013, 07:02 AM

Sieg... I totally agree with you on this. Fox does make great stuff, but the shocks I got are "entry level", and designed to work under a wide range of applications and uses... I am very attuned to the handling on my car now after several years of tweaking, and I know they are just not quite what I was looking for... but that doesn't mean they won't be great for other applications. I am probably at that point where I need some adjustability in a shock like you said.

I went back and read Carl C's post about the Hotchkis tuned Fox shocks and he said they worked great after some fine tuning by the guys from Fox. He made a comment that after the tuning, the shocks were "much more composed" so maybe he was also experiencing some bounce in stock form.

No doubt those shock are a big improvement over the average shocks you'll find on most cars. Based on your input Carl probably had them ramp up the compression and rebound valving. You're going to want a shock on your car that has the adjustability of your KTM. With your natural attention to detail you'll end up with a menu of high/low speed compression and rebound settings for your favorite tracks, commuting, and sport driving. The only time you'll need to send shocks away is for routine servicing.

Looking forward to you input on the Cat5 system. Hopefully they improve lateral movement as advertised. Fair warning - the spring change in my car turned it into a drifter with the previous tires, the 200TW NT05's neutralized the over-steer tendency........with my baby motor. :thumbsup:

DaleTx

06-27-2013, 08:53 AM

Looking forward to you input on the Cat5 system. Hopefully they improve lateral movement as advertised. Fair warning - the spring change in my car turned it into a drifter with the previous tires, the 200TW NT05's neutralized the over-steer tendency........with my baby motor. :thumbsup:

Global West said I should get the parts sometime next week... so once I get the springs in I will report back. Looking at the pictures they look very thick, 5 leafs instead of 3... I don't think I'll get any spring wrap with these. Not sure what to expect for the ride... but I like it on the firmer side.

Did you go with the 2" drop with the reverse eye, or the 1-1/4" drop with the standard eye? I went with the 2"... that's about what I have now.

Flash68

06-27-2013, 09:34 AM

Yes, as an old off-roader I've known Fox for years. But Fox, like with any good shock manufacturer, you're not going to get their best valving with their "entry level" performance line. I've also ran Bilsteins on a car (in the 80's) and there's something magical about the way their valving ramps up as you push the vehicle harder.

The KTM 300 Dale just picked up has exceptional suspension and I'm anticipating he'll expect similar performance from the shocks on his Camaro now that he's taken it to another level with a killer motor and trans combo he's exploited the chassis' weaknesses. IMO - He's ready for serious 3 way valving and another brake upgrade won't be too far off. In no way am I knocking Ridetech/Hotchkis/Fox as their 3-way products appear to perform well as do a few others. It's big money, but I've never regretted an investment in top-notch shocks.

Good post. :thumbsup:

Mary Pozzi seemed to do just fine with leaf springs...

Just sayin'

:secret:

Yeah. And then she went in and put in a 3 link..... hmmmm. :headspin:

I went back and read Carl C's post about the Hotchkis tuned Fox shocks and he said they worked great after some fine tuning by the guys from Fox. He made a comment that after the tuning, the shocks were "much more composed" so maybe he was also experiencing some bounce in stock form.

Yeah if only all of us couldn't get access to a test and tune day at the track where the Fox techs are there making all of the on-the-fly adjustments and changing out parts. That's some serious support right there.

Sieg

06-27-2013, 04:03 PM

Global West said I should get the parts sometime next week... so once I get the springs in I will report back. Looking at the pictures they look very thick, 5 leafs instead of 3... I don't think I'll get any spring wrap with these. Not sure what to expect for the ride... but I like it on the firmer side.

Did you go with the 2" drop with the reverse eye, or the 1-1/4" drop with the standard eye? I went with the 2"... that's about what I have now.
IIRCC - They didn't have the reverse eye when I purchased mine, and advertised 1.5-2" lower. I definitely recall being disappointed with how high the car was in the rear when I put it on the ground so it now has 1" spacers and 4* shims which put it close.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WkMLDSJ/0/M/i-WkMLDSJ-M.jpg

I imagine your ride will be quite a bit firmer if you were running stock springs like I was. With the stock spring the rear spoiler would excessively squat the rear above 100 mph creating a very light front end. That's not an issue with the GW springs.

PTAddict

06-27-2013, 07:01 PM

Yeah. And then she went in and put in a 3 link..... hmmmm. :headspin:

LOL. But the truth is, whatever we want to tell ourselves, 99% of us will never be able to drive close to level of Mary Pozzi. For the rest of us who just aspire to have fun and continually improve, we can go very far without going to the trouble and expense of radical re-engineering.

I was out at ORP a few years back with the Porsche club in my '71, stock subframe with scanc.com front suspension mods, the aforementioned GW leaf springs, AFCO shocks, Michelin PS Cup tires. My instructor, who was both an excellent driver and long time instructor, was stunned at how well my car worked on that very technical track. It was easily the fastest car in the intermediate class, which was populated mainly with late model 911s, Caymans, and Lotuses. Other drivers kept coming up between sessions, examining the car, asking about mods, etc. I'd have them crawl under the back end to see the big ugly solid axle controlled by nothing but a pair of huge old leaf springs, and they'd just shake their heads in wonder.

DaleTx

06-27-2013, 10:49 PM

IIRCC - They didn't have the reverse eye when I purchased mine, and advertised 1.5-2" lower. I definitely recall being disappointed with how high the car was in the rear when I put it on the ground so it now has 1" spacers and 4* shims which put it close.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WkMLDSJ/0/M/i-WkMLDSJ-M.jpg

I imagine your ride will be quite a bit firmer if you were running stock springs like I was. With the stock spring the rear spoiler would excessively squat the rear above 100 mph creating a very light front end. That's not an issue with the GW springs.

Thanks Sieg. Now Global West offers the standard eye which is 1-1/4" lower stance, and the reverse eye which is 2" lower stance on the CAT-5 leafs. Looks Like the reverse eye should work good and still leave some room for shims to adjust the axle angle.. Thanks for the pics :thumbsup:

Yeah if only all of us couldn't get access to a test and tune day at the track where the Fox techs are there making all of the on-the-fly adjustments and changing out parts. That's some serious support right there.

Carl's probably helping out with product development with his feedback so that cool. Good for Fox for being there.

LOL. But the truth is, whatever we want to tell ourselves, 99% of us will never be able to drive close to level of Mary Pozzi. For the rest of us who just aspire to have fun and continually improve, we can go very far without going to the trouble and expense of radical re-engineering.

I was out at ORP a few years back with the Porsche club in my '71, stock subframe with scanc.com front suspension mods, the aforementioned GW leaf springs, AFCO shocks, Michelin PS Cup tires. My instructor, who was both an excellent driver and long time instructor, was stunned at how well my car worked on that very technical track. It was easily the fastest car in the intermediate class, which was populated mainly with late model 911s, Caymans, and Lotuses. Other drivers kept coming up between sessions, examining the car, asking about mods, etc. I'd have them crawl under the back end to see the big ugly solid axle controlled by nothing but a pair of huge old leaf springs, and they'd just shake their heads in wonder.

That's a great story... That is part of the fun with this hobby, to take an old classic, fix it up and hang with all the new stuff... good feeling.

Sounds like the CAT-5 leafs are a great set up.. can't wait to get them on the car and try it out.

DaleTx

06-29-2013, 10:47 PM

I went to the historic races at PIR today and bumped into Sieg :sieg: We spent some time talking to the mechanic and driver of this nice 1968 Z28.

This car won it's class by almost a full lap running against mostly Corvettes and Mustangs. This car was way faster than the other cars...the driver was on the edge at all times. The mechanic told me the engine runs up over 9K. It had a 4:56 rear axle and he went 155 mph down the main straight. I do have a video clip of it running wide open that I will post up later.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-06-29112202_zps473b4675.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2013-06-29112202_zps473b4675.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-06-29112229_zpsbd380988.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2013-06-29112229_zpsbd380988.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-06-29112215_zps82db8c18.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2013-06-29112215_zps82db8c18.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-06-29113625_zps24868a52.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2013-06-29113625_zps24868a52.jpg.html)

Dry sump tank in the trunk and a fuel cell...

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-06-29122759_zpsdae90126.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2013-06-29122759_zpsdae90126.jpg.html)

I thought of Dave (Flash68) when I saw these side pipes... very cool...This car sounded amazing going down the straight!

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-06-29112627_zps6fe19a34.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2013-06-29112627_zps6fe19a34.jpg.html)

Jerico 4 speed transmission

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-06-29112522_zps33e1f7d9.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2013-06-29112522_zps33e1f7d9.jpg.html)

302 pumped to the hilt. The driver said it had over 500HP but would not give us the actual number. 5 stage dry sump pump, step headers, titanium valves, Holley carb.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-06-29153200_zpsaaf3abbf.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2013-06-29153200_zpsaaf3abbf.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-06-29112503_zps8d5a4788.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2013-06-29112503_zps8d5a4788.jpg.html)

I really liked this picture.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/2013-06-29112646_zps659c5900.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/daltol/media/2013-06-29112646_zps659c5900.jpg.html)

Vegas69

06-29-2013, 11:35 PM

What a car!

Flash68

06-30-2013, 12:08 AM

Now THAT is a Camaro.... great pics.... must have been one heck of a fun day.

I wanna hear the 302 at 9k.... :bigun2:

Sieg

06-30-2013, 12:40 AM

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/th_video-2013-06-29-11-15-16_zps6ded85ae.jpg (http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s364/daltol/video-2013-06-29-11-15-16_zps6ded85ae.mp4)
Click on the pic to be redirected to the video.

The FErd is in too Rob. :D

MX145

06-30-2013, 02:24 AM

GregWeld

06-30-2013, 06:28 AM

AWESOME ---- Wish I was there with you guys!

I've never done the Historic's despite having been born and raised in Ptown. DOH!

Sieg

06-30-2013, 06:48 AM

AWESOME ---- Wish I was there with you guys!

I've never done the Historic's despite having been born and raised in Ptown. DOH!
It was my first and I'll be back. Wish I could make it today even at the forecasted 93* to shoot more pics and practice with the video side of the camera.

Hopefully Dale's addicted and going back today to feed us more pics and video. :rules:

coolwelder62

06-30-2013, 07:09 AM

Very cool, thank's for sharing.

DaleTx

06-30-2013, 09:40 AM

What a car!

Now THAT is a Camaro.... great pics.... must have been one heck of a fun day.

I wanna hear the 302 at 9k.... :bigun2:

AWESOME ---- Wish I was there with you guys!

I've never done the Historic's despite having been born and raised in Ptown. DOH!

It was my first and I'll be back. Wish I could make it today even at the forecasted 93* to shoot more pics and practice with the video side of the camera.

Hopefully Dale's addicted and going back today to feed us more pics and video. :rules:

Very cool, thank's for sharing.

:thumbsup: We can all appreciate what this guy has done... that's the whole package there. If there is anyone local here in Portland Vancouver... the 67 will be running again today in group 5.

Just to put it into perspective of how fast this car was... he was running a 1 min 24 sec lap time. The average time for the rest of the guys in the class was low 1:30's. The car had 15" wheels and 10-3/4" diameter disc brakes and he was running 155 mph down the front and back straight. Very impressive.

The driver was talking to a group of guys after the second race and said "you're not going fast when your hooked up, it's only when you feel like your driving on syrup that you know your going fast"

:lateral: