Geting in deep... LS + Forced indution

[XLexusTech]

So I want to go forced induction, looking for around 600 HP and 500 + Flb Torque... LS drop out....

So started thinking... maybe I should start with a long block instead because by the time I end up accomidating forced induction i will need a new drive system (even if I go turbo) i will need to accomadate the turbo's.. will end up with a buch mof Fuel Mods... ECU mods... .. so instead of going drop out to leverage assesories and wiring hrness.. shold i consider a long block aftermarket intake and Fuel injection?

Or, go LS3 and a zo6 procharger already ready to go on OEM brackets?

Only hitch here is I like a quiet idle... a heard prochargers whine alot...

[WSSix]

You're talking engine power goals not rear wheel goals, correct?

Pro-chargers whine a lot are are better suited for a drag race situation. They need RPMs to produce their power. They make great power though.

Have you considered Magnacharger, Kenne Bell, or Whipple? I know Magnacharger makes their kits to fit the factory accessory brackets. I'm sure the other two do as well. You could also do a simple heads change to lower your compression if you want that much boost. However, I've built a few C5 vettes using a Manacharger, stock CC size heads but ported, a cam, and the other needed parts like exhaust and intake and have easily met your goals while producing instant torque. They were more fun to drive than the Pro-charged C5 Z06 I built that had slightly higher peak power numbers.

My vote is for a drop out. There are so many little items you'll need. Whatever you don't use you can sale or trade for what you need. The factory LSx computers, both Gen 3 and 4, can register boost up to 2 and 3 bar respectively. I believe those are the correct numbers. The factory intakes work just fine for your power levels should you go turbo or Pro-charger.

If the drop out is a throttle by wire engine, either make sure the pedal and control module come with the engine or try and leverage for one. It's just more more thing you'll need.

You're not really building anything that exotic so you don't have to get fancy if you don't want to or can't afford to.

[Jr]

Pro chargers can be made with heli cut gears( makes them more quit than straight cut gears)

[Sparks67]

So I want to go forced induction, looking for around 600 HP and 500 + Flb Torque... LS drop out....

So started thinking... maybe I should start with a long block instead because by the time I end up accomidating forced induction i will need a new drive system (even if I go turbo) i will need to accomadate the turbo's.. will end up with a buch mof Fuel Mods... ECU mods... .. so instead of going drop out to leverage assesories and wiring hrness.. shold i consider a long block aftermarket intake and Fuel injection?

Or, go LS3 and a zo6 procharger already ready to go on OEM brackets?

Only hitch here is I like a quiet idle... a heard prochargers whine alot...


Your current Hp goals can be done with NA engine, but I post my thread from LS1tech with the Harrop Supercharger. I am Sparky67 on LS1Tech, but changed it here. I pulled my threads here long ago, so I know it is not on this forum. I did look at Turbo's, but Turbo generates to much heat to be able to drive anywhere. Procharger was an option, but it requires special brackets.

Supercharger will require a custom cooling Radiator, liquid to air intercooler (Autorad built mine), Custom fuel tank with built in fuel pumps from Rick's (I have dual pumps), Bowler transmission 4l80-E. ECU is from GM, but can be an LS1 with 24x reluctor wheel. Another option is to use 58X reluctor wheel, but the LS3 ECU. Speartech harness or other options are available.
Custom tuning for the ECU. Rich Gala (former W2W Tuner) was my tuner.

Cost will be more than you expect. So, if you plan to do this type of build then you better have cash or your project will take longer than you expect.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/1062374-ls3-416-harrop-htv-tvs-2300-supercharger.html

You Tube videos (Camera kept shutting down during the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSByyIvJn2I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6dqOviOOQg

[WSSix]

Sparks brings up some good points. Especially the fact that you can go NA and meet your goals.

Depending on how custom or show you want to go, you may be able to use most if not everything that comes in the kits for say a Magnacharger. They supply the intercooler parts, pump, and reservoir needed. You don't need a special radiator. You'll just need a good one that would work with the LS engine. Then it's simply mounting the parts in a nice manner to make it all work and look good. It just may look a little generic versus using custom pieces.

Look up Bill Howell's GTO, which was called Billy Goat. He used a Magnacharger on top of a 6.0 for the car. He used most of the parts supplied from Magnacharger on the car. To me, the car came out looking great and very clean. He put many miles on that setup. I believe he used a truck system for his car. The truck systems from Magnacharger brought air in from the rear and the drive pulley was in the front.

[Sparks67]

Sparks brings up some good points. Especially the fact that you can go NA and meet your goals.

Depending on how custom or show you want to go, you may be able to use most if not everything that comes in the kits for say a Magnacharger. They supply the intercooler parts, pump, and reservoir needed. You don't need a special radiator. You'll just need a good one that would work with the LS engine. Then it's simply mounting the parts in a nice manner to make it all work and look good. It just may look a little generic versus using custom pieces.

Look up Bill Howell's GTO, which was called Billy Goat. He used a Magnacharger on top of a 6.0 for the car. He used most of the parts supplied from Magnacharger on the car. To me, the car came out looking great and very clean. He put many miles on that setup. I believe he used a truck system for his car. The truck systems from Magnacharger brought air in from the rear and the drive pulley was in the front.


If you buy from Harrop TVS2300 or Magnacharger TVS2300, then you have to buy the Hot Rod kit. There is a shaft distance that you need to fit the subframe and the firewall. The hot rod kit doesn't have the intercooler setup. Doesn't have the accessory drive. Harrop also provided me with the original drawings from the G8 with the intercooler reservoirs. Would it work on 67-69 Camaro? No, the tanks wouldn't work, so custom tanks would need to be developed.

Bill Howell setup is based on the old design from magnacharger. It is apparent that you are just reading an article and looking at some photos. The articles make it sound easy, but sorry it is not. I contacted Magnacharger in June of 2008. Actually, it is stated that in my link from LS1Tech. Magnacharger wasn't interested in selling their TVS2300 kit to the public.
I bought my Harrop TVS2300 in July of 2008. Now this has changed for Magnacharger, because of my posts. There is now a pulley setup available, which in the past there wasn't that option. Well, Michael Hewitt of Harrop now works for Magnacharger. Just rather interesting bit information.

I also contacted Gerhard Schruf of Bell intercoolers, and based on my hp. He had specified out a intercooler heat exchanger. Gerhard gave me some hints on a better pump than Bosch. It flows more than stock pump from Bosch. I went with Autorad, because they could develop the complete setup. Autorad setup also has bigger intercooler heat exchanger. The advantage with Autorad is that you didn't have to use a custom hood latch. For example, like on Stielows Red Devil or Jackass or Mayhem. They all use a custom latch.

Actually, my 67 Camaro was delayed because of issues that are beyond of my control. Not really money issue. My 67 Camaro is rather unique than most builds, it was being built out of a friend's (Dad's) residential garage. So, I had to do lot of the calling to find out the information. I also have done lot of the work on the car as well. Most cars are being built from a shop.

[XLexusTech]

Good Intel / discussion thus far. Yes its easy to hit 500+ NA with an LS.. but typically not while maintaining good driveability (gas mileage being one of them) Hot cams=Hot rod driving characteristics and 15 MPG..
Turbos have always been something i wanted to do, their is nothing like the torque hit when the boost kicks in.

Supercharger is great too, but I really like a nice quiet ride... Don't mind a racket at WOT.. but I don't want to have to scream to talk to a passenger.

One of my long term goals is a cross country drive..

[Sparks67]

Good Intel / discussion thus far. Yes its easy to hit 500+ NA with an LS.. but typically not while maintaining good driveability (gas mileage being one of them) Hot cams=Hot rod driving characteristics and 15 MPG..
Turbos have always been something i wanted to do, their is nothing like the torque hit when the boost kicks in.

Supercharger is great too, but I really like a nice quiet ride... Don't mind a racket at WOT.. but I don't want to have to scream to talk to a passenger.

One of my long term goals is a cross country drive..


Mark Stielow would be best to address all three types of engines, but he seems to like supercharged engines lately. The gas mileage depends on your driving. So, if you have your foot on the pedal all the time, then you might as well forget fuel economy.

What type of car do you have? For example, 67-69 Camaro's didn't have sound deadening in them. Will it be quiet as a Lexus? No! Even after you added sound deadener to the car. Actually, my dyno test are done with open headers. New cars have spent lot of time in the wind tunnels, while this didn't occur in the 60's. http://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-chat/510052-interesting-wind-tunnel-tests-on-a-few-cars.html Wind tunnels have helped improved the fuel economy, but I personally like the look of 67 Camaro with supercharger than any of the new car designs. I am degreed Engineer, but I do understand the compromises that you need to make. Take a few engineering classes and then you will understand that there is limits to these cars. I am interested in his E85 Project with Mayhem and the LS9, but I was told in 2008 that it couldn't be done at that time.

Another option is a big cubic engine LS engine.

[WSSix]

When I say buy a kit, I mean for a specific vehicle preferably the vehicle the drop out engine came from. I was unaware that a Hot Rod kit was available.

I've built Vettes using Magnacharger and Pro-Chargers. I also did an H2 and an SSr with the Magnacharger. I did this for a living for a number of years. I didn't read about Bill's car either. I spoke with him about it at a Year One Gathering so many years ago that I can't remember all the details. Long before 2008 or the TVS super chargers from Eaton. The car was brand new on the scene then. I also told him how to solve a water flow problem with the heat exchanger. So no, I was a little more intimate with the car than simply reading about it in some magazine.

I think you're making this too hard. A Magnacharged hot rod is nothing new. Many were done before Pro-touring took off the way it has and they performed just fine. People did exactly what I mentioned, used a kit for a vehicle and adapted it to the hot rod the same way they had to adapt the engine itself. If you can use stock accessories in whatever car you're putting this in, then use the Magnacharger kit that matches those accessories.

Lexus, every vette I built picked up at least 1 mpg with the Magnacharger installed on a relatively stock engine. Once cams where added, the mileage dropped a touch but was still very good. Mid to high 20s on the highway out of M6 cars. The H2 picked up 2 mpg simply because the blower keep the truck from constantly downshifting out of overdrive with the slightest bit of an incline. The owner was thrilled with just that positive change. Magnachargers are very quiet until you open them up, then they scream like a banshee. Driveability is fantastic if tuned correctly. The cammed cars had small blower cams so they drove fantastic as well. They had just a slight lope nothing rowdy.

The last C5 I built was a non-intercooled Magnacharged car at 5.5 psi boost with headers and full 3in exhaust, Stg 2 ported LS6 heads from Texas Speed, Blackwing intake, and a small cam. Put down 530hp and 470ft lbs at the wheels. Torque was flat everywhere and I never saw the HP peak over because we ran out of RPM. I made my pulls from 2000 rpm to 6200 rpm in 4th. Torque wouldn't drop off until over 5000 rpm. I want to say around 5300. At redline it was still over 400 ft lbs. Fun car to drive.

[WSSix]

Lexus, just saw new member Old Goat's avatar. Seems he also has a Magnacharged hot rod. Maybe PM him and see what he can tell you about the swap.

[Sparks67]

When I say buy a kit, I mean for a specific vehicle preferably the vehicle the drop out engine came from. I was unaware that a Hot Rod kit was available.

Michael Hewitt was the sales manager for Harrop Superchargers in 2008, and there wasn't no kit available for a 67 Camaro with DSE subframe. The only option was the hot rod kit. I have stated this in a previous post. There is special shaft distance that needs to be specified on other cars. I wanted the TVS2300, which is a sixth generation supercharger.


I've built Vettes using Magnacharger and Pro-Chargers. I also did an H2 and an SSr with the Magnacharger.
Again this is all new cars. SSR uses a fifth generation supercharger MP112.



I think you're making this too hard. A Magnacharged hot rod is nothing new. Many were done before Pro-touring took off the way it has and they performed just fine. People did exactly what I mentioned, used a kit for a vehicle and adapted it to the hot rod the same way they had to adapt the engine itself. If you can use stock accessories in whatever car you're putting this in, then use the Magnacharger kit that matches those accessories.

Again, it was a new supercharger design and I was talking to the original developers. So, I am not sure if you are helping out the OP. If the OP wants to use the MP112, then he can use it. My Harrop TVS2300 had the DSE subframe, so a new pulley setup was developed by Wegner Automotive. In 2010, there was a magnacharger TVS2300 developed by Wegner. Again a new pulley setup was developed for that build, but I think Killer67 build uses the speedtech subframe. http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=27799&page=3

Raj has his 1969 Camaro done, so he can give you a better estimate on fuel economy. Raj has a Harrop TVS2300 also. There is a few on this website.
The OP seems to rather have turbo's, than a supercharger. Still there is cost issue, so just be aware. Jody http://www.camcojb.com/ built Malitiude 2 a twin Turbo 64 chevelle, so perhaps he can give better information on the build. There is long post on it. I have been in Pro-Touring since about 2001. When I joined this forum back in 2005, Jody was building the 69 Camaro with twin turbos. The build was sold, so just be aware that the build can get rather expensive and never gets finished. The problem is that you take a huge loss on selling an unfinished project. (My reasons for posting is mainly for the unfinished cars that never get finished. If you can't afford to build it. Then chose an engine build that is less costly.)

Jeff

[camcojb]

I'd probably do N/A to get the car up and driving, and then plan a forced induction build later on. That was going to be my initial plan for my second gen whenever that build starts. Turbo's are more expensive in most cases, and definitely a harder setup to engineer. I really like the Harrop/Maggie setups now, and Mark Stielow has proven that type of blower can be more than competitive and a lot of fun to drive.