1482 hp small block chevy for hot rod

[TOM NELSON]

We just finished David Frieburgers twin turbo small block for project f-bomb we plan to run this car at drag week.The motor made 1025 hp and 980 ft lbs on 91 octane and 1482hp at 5600 rpm and 1441 ft lbs of torque.we actually had about 200 hp more in the motor but the 83 lb injectors were stuck open at that point.This is is a totally streetable combo as a matter of fact the cams advertised duration is 266 seat to seat.We got a ton of video during the testing.we made over 31 pulls above a 1000 hp.I'm going to convert the video and post it when were done.Nelson Racing Engines

[TOM NELSON]

more pics

[camcojb]

very cool Tom.


Jody

[XcYZ]

Awesome. Just awesome. Can't wait for the video. :thumbsup:

[Ummgawa]

Wow, man. I just soiled myself. :thumbsup:

[XcYZ]

Tom, how much boost and total timing for both the 91 octane pulls and the all out pulls on the dyno?

[race-rodz]

that exhaust is just plain SEXY

[BC69]

This may sound like a dumb question. But what are those cylinders above the turbos that stick out? Is that an intake of some sort? Should I know the answer to this? Probably...I am a bad pro-tourer :( ;)

Tim

[Nutsy]

They are waste gates. They are used to control how fast the turbo spins and therefore how much boost it produces. It does this by a spring loaded diaphram that diverts exhaust gases to the "dump" tube bypassing the turbine side of the turbo.

[jonny51]

Very nice Tom!!.

[4mm]

Just plain sick :thumbsup:, and I thought my 525hp LS6 was cool.
Oh well, back to the drawing board. :captain:

[Sales@Dutchboys]

SHES A BAD BOY!!! LOL :thumbsup:

[Diognes56]

Very Sweet :thumbsup: .

David

[CAMAROBOY69]

:eek: :eek:

[orange88]

come on lets hear the specs!

[Speedster]

Once again, it's the mad Dr. Nelson and Mr. Tom - psycho engine builder. 1482 Hp from 406 cu in ? That's pretty SICK. :goofy:

[Rick Dorion]

Group Purchase!

[TOM NELSON]

The Motor Made 1025 Hp At 14 Pounds Of Boost And 32 Degrees Total Timing.5900 Rpm 1482 Hp At 29 Pounds Of Boost And 32 Degrees Timing 5600 Rpm.but Trust Me When You See The Video When The Motor Hits Beyond 1000 Hp It Jumps The Hp So Fast Its Hard To Read The Gauge It Would Have Made 1600+ But The Air Fuel Would Go From 11 To 1 To 13 In A Heart Beat So We Kept Having To Shut The Run Off Early.the Goal For David Was To Make A Streetable 1000 Hp And We Did That On Pump Gas .he Was Stoked.

[jy211]

Group Purchase!


what he said! :thumbsup: :hail:

[240zx]

Are you at liberty to give any specs(engine/turbo size, heads, etc.)?

[groovyjay]

:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

[Diesel77]

Absolutely unreal!! :willy:

Mr Nelson, you sir are a GOD!! :bow:

[Speedster]

Absolutely unreal!! :willy:

Mr Nelson, you sir are a GOD!! :bow:

Just don't get your hands near his mouth at lunch when he is feeding....:eek:
He needs all that brain food to come up with those bad @$$ engines ideas

[TOM NELSON]

406 Sbc Some Of Our Special 72 Mm Turbos,the Turbo's Are The Real Power Maker Theres 400 Hp From The Right Turbo To The Wrong One Camshaft Again Is Special But You Can Purchase From Me If Your Interested.cnc Brodix 227's Which Weve Since Switched To Spread Ports On All The New Motors.8.5 To 1 Compression 4.155/3.750 Bore Stroke.nothing Crazy Just The Right Mesh Of Parts.

[jack67rs]

Do you make your own intakes or is that a Hogan, etc.?

[TOM NELSON]

We are making our own intake right now it is very trick runner set up I've seen as much as 100 hp and a sweet sound change just from changing to it.

[XcYZ]

Tom, when do you think you'll have some video up?

[TOM NELSON]

I gave it to my dad to edit this morning.probally a week.I've got two more turbo motors we shot two including just for you a 1100 hp pump gas 427 tt.As soon as there done you'll be the first to get it.

[XcYZ]

Sweetness, thanks Tom. :captain:

[240zx]

406 Sbc Some Of Our Special 72 Mm Turbos,the Turbo's Are The Real Power Maker Theres 400 Hp From The Right Turbo To The Wrong One Camshaft Again Is Special But You Can Purchase From Me If Your Interested.cnc Brodix 227's Which Weve Since Switched To Spread Ports On All The New Motors.8.5 To 1 Compression 4.155/3.750 Bore Stroke.nothing Crazy Just The Right Mesh Of Parts.

Thank you very much. Nelson Racing Engines is always setting new standards.

[Roadrage David]

Tom could you do that with a pontiac(aftermarket) engine to???

[MaxHarvard]

Let me get my small change purse out so i can buy one! LOL ... nice motor :D

[Hooligan]

Absolutely unreal!! :willy:

Mr Nelson, you sir are a GOD!! :bow:

Would it please got to do a twin turbo mopar build? :hail: :unibrow: :D

[TOM NELSON]

Pontaic /mopar/ford I Like Making Things Go Fast.

[ProStreet R/T]

My that makes our 1200hp pump gas vipers seem kinda lame :(


Well done man, thats one WICKED COMBO! :hail:

[Silverback]

What are you using for engine management? I don’t see a distributor there…

[turboteg]

Just curious what's the turbine setup on those turbos, if you don't mind sharing? I'm running similar turbos, mine are DBB with P-trim .70 A/R turbine sides, wondering how they compare to yours.......

[quadfather]

What are you using for engine management? I don’t see a distributor there…
i think they use a tec-3 system distributorless ing.

[Speedster]

Electromotive TEC3 with 60-2 crank trigger ignition.

[TOM NELSON]

These Guys Are Right.tec 3 60-2 Wheel Thats One Of The Tricks That Keep These Things Alive Is The Ignition.i've Run The Other Systems And While They All Have Plus's And -'s The One Thing I've Noticed Is That The Main Bearings And Rod Bearings Look Much Better Running The Kind Of Power We Make With This Set-up.i'm Not Sure What It Is ,i Feel Its A More Stable Ignition Circuit.that Would Be My Guess.

[TOM NELSON]

The Turbine Wheel Is A Nelson Special.thats About All I Can Say.sorry Don't Me To Be A Ass But That Took Some Time To Fiqure Out.

[turboteg]

The Turbine Wheel Is A Nelson Special.thats About All I Can Say.sorry Don't Me To Be A Ass But That Took Some Time To Fiqure Out.

No problem Tom. Knowledge like that is what puts food on your
plate and toys in your garage, and I can understand that totally.

[Turbo Deuce]

The Motor Made 1025 Hp At 14 Pounds Of Boost And 32 Degrees Total Timing.5900 Rpm 1482 Hp At 29 Pounds Of Boost And 32 Degrees Timing 5600 Rpm.but Trust Me When You See The Video When The Motor Hits Beyond 1000 Hp It Jumps The Hp So Fast Its Hard To Read The Gauge It Would Have Made 1600+ But The Air Fuel Would Go From 11 To 1 To 13 In A Heart Beat So We Kept Having To Shut The Run Off Early.the Goal For David Was To Make A Streetable 1000 Hp And We Did That On Pump Gas .he Was Stoked.

Nice power! I read pump gas, but I see 32 degrees of timing at 29 psi. Can you go into a little detail? That seems high on C16, and I read pump gas.

[syborg tt]

the more i read about you the more i am considering sending you my v6

[Speedster]

the more i read about you the more i am considering sending you my v6

Marty -
I would highly recommend sending Tom your V6. You will be happy you did. Tom makes "good" power, meaning high and long term.

[syborg tt]

Marty -
I would highly recommend sending Tom your V6. You will be happy you did. Tom makes "good" power, meaning high and long term.


yep it looks like i will be calling him and telling him what i've got

[JUSTANOVA]

:hail: :hail:

that is ridiculous, what would it cost do duplicate(have you build one for me)?

[syborg tt]

:hail: :hail:

that is ridiculous, what would it cost do duplicate(have you build one for me)?


Actually ridiculous isn't the right word - Awesome would be the word i would choose.

[ProStreet R/T]

:hail: :hail:

that is ridiculous, what would it cost do duplicate(have you build one for me)?

Ooh ooh this could be fun, lets take guesses on the build tally.

I'll say total motor, turbo kit, excluding efi and tuning. $27k

I'm assuming hot side is done in mild steel and off the shelf internals.

[syborg tt]

I'll say total motor, turbo kit, excluding efi and tuning. $27k

i have 25 into my little v6

[ProStreet R/T]

i have 25 into my little v6

I'm sure i'm on the low side but it doesn't seem like a wild build.

My breakdown:

$4k in turbos
$2.5k for the hotside and WG's (Mild steel) Add $2500 for stainless
$2k A/A Intercooler and cold side tubing
$3k for the sheetmetal manifold and t/b.
$9500 short block. Figure a nice block, bowtie/little M, forged crank, H beam rods (crower, maybe oliver), forged pistons (je/cp), timing chain, cam, hydro rollers, machine work, etc.
$5k for normal heads. Complete set of heads. Not counting port work, if any.
$1-2k for misc small stuff, valve covers, oil pan, etc.


It very well could be nearly double my guess, but not knowing what it's built with, kinda hard to say.

25k in a V6, my god man what are you building? Is that including some custom turbo stuff or just long block? thats SB2.2 territory.

[syborg tt]

25k in a V6, my god man what are you building? Is that including some custom turbo stuff or just long block? thats SB2.2 territory.

Yep it's a twin turbo v6, shooting for around 800hp on pump gas.

Trust me this is the last v6 i will ever build. Everything is custom. The crank was $2800.00 and it took almost 6 months to get direct from Crower. The intake was about the same from Hogan / RPM. Yep building a little motor costs more then a v8 because there just aren't that many stupid people like me doing this. My goal was to be different not broke but in the end i am going to be different and broke.

here is the link to the truck.

www.syborgtwinturbo.com

[JUSTANOVA]

Actually ridiculous isn't the right word - Awesome would be the word i would choose.

There are many words that come to mind when looking at thing of beauty like this. That's a sweet build you got going there :thumbsup:

I'm curious about build cost so I can plan for my engine, haven't decided what I am going to do for sure yet, I'm considering big inch rat or a turbo small block.

[TOM NELSON]

The Motor Was Run On 91 Octane From Arco At 1025 Hp And Ran 109 Unleaded At 29 Psi Not A Hint Of Detonation Even When We Got It Lean At The End Of The High Boost Pulls.

[TOM NELSON]

To Duplicate This Motor Costs 30.000 Thats With 321 Stainless Hedders Intercooler,management,dynoed And Out The Door.some Parts Used Are A Lunati Crank,je Pistons,cnc Ported Brodies With Inconel Valves,sheet Intake,cranktrigger Ignition You Get The Idea Good Stuff Thanks For Your Good Words Tom

[B Schein]

Syborg I was just looking at your site earlier today and was checking out the crank. I figured it had to be custom I have never seen a crank with offset rod journals before I guess that strokes the motor.

[Turbo Deuce]

The Motor Was Run On 91 Octane From Arco At 1025 Hp And Ran 109 Unleaded At 29 Psi Not A Hint Of Detonation Even When We Got It Lean At The End Of The High Boost Pulls.

If you will... how about a small education on timing. I am curious, if you had used an AFR head would your timing be lower for the same HP numbers or what do you contribute it to? I am assuming 0 decked and dish piston.

That is a great looking layout for the twins!

[syborg tt]

Syborg I was just looking at your site earlier today and was checking out the crank. I figured it had to be custom I have never seen a crank with offset rod journals before I guess that strokes the motor.

Actually that is how all even fire v6 cranks are. This allows them to run without vibrating you to death like a Harley on Steriods

[TOM NELSON]

The Two Ways Of Doing It Some People Like Small Timing Numbers And Less Fuel And Some Like More Timing And More Fuel Whatever Makes The Most On The Pump.every Motor Is Different You Never Really No.

[Freiburger]

The other thing Tom didn't mention is that the engine will idle in gear at 700 rpm with 12-15 inches of vacuum. It makes all its power under 6,000 rpm. In the biggest pump-gas trim, it made more than 900 lb-ft from 3800 rpm all the way through 6000 rpm. In a lower tuneup for race gas, it made over 1,000 lb-ft from 3800-up.

Thing is, this is only a 406. Nelson regrets that we didn't just go 427, plus use his new intake and spread-exhaust-port heads. I think our 406 would go 1,550 hp with the right injectors. The 427 combo could be 1,650.

DF

[Turbo Deuce]

The other thing Tom didn't mention is that the engine will idle in gear at 700 rpm with 12-15 inches of vacuum. It makes all its power under 6,000 rpm. In the biggest pump-gas trim, it made more than 900 lb-ft from 3800 rpm all the way through 6000 rpm. In a lower tuneup for race gas, it made over 1,000 lb-ft from 3800-up.

Thing is, this is only a 406. Nelson regrets that we didn't just go 427, plus use his new intake and spread-exhaust-port heads. I think our 406 would go 1,550 hp with the right injectors. The 427 combo could be 1,650.

DF

DF, what transmission are you going to run?

[XcYZ]

The other thing Tom didn't mention is that the engine will idle in gear at 700 rpm with 12-15 inches of vacuum. It makes all its power under 6,000 rpm. In the biggest pump-gas trim, it made more than 900 lb-ft from 3800 rpm all the way through 6000 rpm. In a lower tuneup for race gas, it made over 1,000 lb-ft from 3800-up.

Thing is, this is only a 406. Nelson regrets that we didn't just go 427, plus use his new intake and spread-exhaust-port heads. I think our 406 would go 1,550 hp with the right injectors. The 427 combo could be 1,650.

DF

David, glad to see you stop lurking and make a post. :thumbsup: Welcome aboard. I can't wait to see what this thing lays down at drag week.

[syborg tt]

Thing is, this is only a 406. Nelson regrets that we didn't just go 427, plus use his new intake and spread-exhaust-port heads. I think our 406 would go 1,550 hp with the right injectors. The 427 combo could be 1,650.

DF


So tell us more about the car / rod that this is going into

[XcYZ]

It's going in F-Bomb, an early 2nd Gen Camaro. There's a picture of it on page 35 of this month's issue of Hot Rod. I don't have it handy so I don't recall if the blurb mentions anything particular about the car.

[SS MPSTR]

That is just incredible power, and a nicely assembled combination. God really is in the details.

[Freiburger]

The car is a '73 Camaro, and is not Pro Touring or G-Machine or whatever. Just a plain, truly drivable, legit street car and somewhat of a sleeper. We were going to go with a pure vintage Trans Am look (like, SCCA Trans Am, not Pontiac), but it was important to Nelson that it run 8s in the quarter, and a handling setup with a six-speed wasn't gonna do that well.

So, the look is stock. No cowl hood, no deck spoiler, no air dam, no stripes, and not even an RS package. It'll probably have steel wheels and column shift and stock seats. It will have power steering and brakes but no air. Trans likely a TH400 with a Gear Vendors, or perhaps a 4l80E. Dana 60 rear with 3.54:1. The suspension will be mostly stock and streetable--neither full-on handling nor full-on drag. Minitub with leaf and Caltracs bars, near-stock front end with swaybar, four-wheel discs that fit behind 15s.

Biggest problem is color. Tell me what to do! Options so far:
- Stock Rally Green with black interior
- Black with black interior
- Black with red interior
- Silver with red interior
- Hugger orange with black interior

Ideas?

DF

[JUSTANOVA]

put one vote down for black/black, always been my fav. color combo. maybe even do the house of kolor flattening agent in the clear to give it that primer look.

[Freiburger]

Nelson will love you for voting black. But would you want to take care of a black car every day?

A guy on hotrod.com just suggested sleeper beige.

BRG has also been suggested.
DF

[jonny51]

Black on Black :thumbsup:

[XcYZ]

Silver with red interior would be my first choice, followed up by hugger orange.

I love looking at black cars, but they aren't any fun to keep looking nice. Sorry Tom! :D

Oh yeah, and are you sure you don't want to run a 1 piece rear spoiler? I think they look great on those cars and are subtle.

[zbugger]

I think running the one piece rear spoiler is a great idea Scott. But David, just primer it and leave it be. That's the beauty of a sleeper. It looks cheap, but kills what goes after it. Now, being that it's running all this power, are you gonna stiffen up that chassis any? I've seen 2nd gens twisted with a ton less power. That's not any fun at all.

[TOM NELSON]

You No My Vote B/b Ha Ha

[Steve1968LS2]

The car is a '73 Camaro, and is not Pro Touring or G-Machine or whatever. Just a plain, truly drivable, legit street car and somewhat of a sleeper. We were going to go with a pure vintage Trans Am look (like, SCCA Trans Am, not Pontiac), but it was important to Nelson that it run 8s in the quarter, and a handling setup with a six-speed wasn't gonna do that well.

So, the look is stock. No cowl hood, no deck spoiler, no air dam, no stripes, and not even an RS package. It'll probably have steel wheels and column shift and stock seats. It will have power steering and brakes but no air. Trans likely a TH400 with a Gear Vendors, or perhaps a 4l80E. Dana 60 rear with 3.54:1. The suspension will be mostly stock and streetable--neither full-on handling nor full-on drag. Minitub with leaf and Caltracs bars, near-stock front end with swaybar, four-wheel discs that fit behind 15s.

Biggest problem is color. Tell me what to do! Options so far:
- Stock Rally Green with black interior
- Black with black interior
- Black with red interior
- Silver with red interior
- Hugger orange with black interior

Ideas?

DF

Great to see you posting David! This about the only spot on Earth where I could edit your writing rather than the other way around.. lol

I vote for Rally Green. Black sucks to take care of and with no AC just soaks up the heat from the sun. Silver is nice but it's so darn common and the same is true of Hugger. You just don't see that many done in Rally Green and it's such a nice looking yet low-key color.

Ralley Green = Sleeper

I can't say the same about the other colors.

Again, welcome to the site

<--- Steven from Popular Hot Rodding

[flynbyu82]

Can you tell us anymore details or are those classified :rolleyes:

I would love to know what specifics on the turbos and the build up of the engine :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Either way that engine looks insanly nice :hail: :hail:

[TOM NELSON]

Imagine It This Color But Just Like You Said Dave Without Cowl,rs,etc..scott Did This Paint Job.

[XcYZ]

That car looks bad ass. Get some updated wheels on it and it would be perfect.

[Payton King]

Hard to say from my end on the color. No air makes me think something very light as in a non-tinted white and put a red interior. I can only imagine the heat off of that motor. I would think the rear spoiler like in the above photo would be needed for the small amount of down force on a car that fast...front one too. Those cars get pretty light above 120 mph.

An idea that I like from 21st Century Street Machines is incorporate the roll cage as part of the structure so you cannot see it...since you are going for the sleeper look. IE. run the halo bar as close to the roof as you can. The bars that come down the windshield pilar, weld a filler plate from the bar to the pilar.

Scott if you are reading this post up a pic of Conrad's 69 with this done.

[XcYZ]

...since you are going for the sleeper look. IE. run the halo bar as close to the roof as you can. The bars that come down the windshield pilar, weld a filler plate from the bar to the pilar. Scott if you are reading this post up a pic of Conrad's 69 with this done.

Here you go, Payton:

http://www.lateral-g.net/conrade/18.jpg

[syborg tt]

The car is a '73 Camaro, and is not Pro Touring or G-Machine or whatever. Just a plain, truly drivable, legit street car and somewhat of a sleeper.

Biggest problem is color. Tell me what to do! Options so far:
- Stock Rally Green with black interior

Ideas?

DF

If your goal is to truly make a street sleeper then you should stick with that theme throughout the entire build. If you go black or some other color people will assume that it is a modified car.

If you keep the stock Rally Green then people may and will assume it's a survivor car and not a modified car. If your not sure that you want to keep the Rally Green theme then tint the Green a little Darker to make it look just a little different and make people wonder.

So if you goal is not to stand out in a crowd then stick to your guns and keep it stealth.

[Speedster]

Here you go, Payton:

http://www.lateral-g.net/conrade/18.jpg
Scott -
Thanks for the pic of this rollcage installation.
I ripped my old one out (an 8 point steel bar) and replacing it with a 10 point chrome moly cage and this is exactly the way I wanted to fit it, so thanks. If you have a couple of other shots, please tell me where and I will snag them for the chassis shop. Thanks again.

[Speedster]

Nelson will love you for voting black. But would you want to take care of a black car every day?

A guy on hotrod.com just suggested sleeper beige.

BRG has also been suggested.
DF

Yeah, I can see Tom liking the black/black car. It just looks mean. So did you keep your fingers away from him at lunch while he was feeding ? Gotta be safe... :lolhit:

I am glad that your engine came out so well. It was a SICK creation, and the dyno testing must give you that awesome adrenaline buzz. How many pulls did you guys make? Can't wait to see/hear that TT SBC run. :eek:

Did you happen to see the dumpy 540 in the corner he is working on? I hope that runs as smoothly as yours did on the dyno. Maybe lucky enough to get it to Drag Week.

[Diesel77]

Im all about B/B but its sure hard to keep clean. I have a 04 F350 thats black and an 88 Monte SS thats black and its a full time job trying to keep them shiny. My 70 Chevelle was almost Rally Green and was much cooler looking after it was done than what I imagined it would be. Soon as my turbo set up and mini tubbing are done on my 88 SS then I have to decide the same thing as Dave, what color.

[TOM NELSON]

That Is A Very Cool Color.

[crazy1969]

:thumbsup: tom all i have to say is WOW i wish that we had someone up her (Canada) like you guys maybe i woulden had a melt down but here in canada were a little behind with the technogly .But all i have to say who cares about colour its all about the POWER and to me you guys Rock P.S keep up the good work oh yea i just saw the turbo kit how much just for the headres iam running a 355 sb chev with twin t 6 e-mail me back with the price at [email protected] :bow: :bow: :bow: :thumbsup:

[Speedster]

That Is A Very Cool Color.

Tom, you rugrat.
Give me a call.
Motor + Blower + Fuel + Balancer = Dyno ?

[Speedster]

Ready to turn the chunk of metal in the corner into a thumpin', screamin' dyno monster ? :thumbsup:

[JimM]

Rallye Green, and log another vote for the early one piece spoiler

[Bowtiguy]

I agree, green w/ the one piece spoiler. I hate beige on ANY car but that gold they used back in the day on my dads 68 Z28 was cool but not too modified looking.

The car is long gone as he traded it in on his 70 LT1/ZR1 blue/blue vette that I actually came home from the hospital in. I'd include a pic but it has sat in bare glass since 79' after returning from the NCCC convention in Colorado. In the meantime this is the color I was talking about..


BTW Tom, you will have the LT5 by the end of the year to work your magic. :hail:

[Silverback]

Biggest problem is color. Tell me what to do! Options so far:
- Stock Rally Green with black interior
- Black with black interior
- Black with red interior
- Silver with red interior
- Hugger orange with black interior

Well, black on black is way overdone and if some little bit of it isn’t perfect it just looks bad, and if it is perfect or even close it doesn’t look anything like a sleeper, and I’ve never been that excited about it.

Red interiors… well, they go in and out of style, and they go in and out fast enough that it seems like when you have a red interior it’s always out, and if it isn’t you can date when it was done by what it looks like.

Out of that list I’d probably go with the Green/black. That combination can be really nice, look great but still doesn’t stick out, it’s still sort of sleeperish.

One that you don’t list that is similar is silver and black. But, if it was anything I’d probably consider tan interior with the green exterior or anything lighter with the silver (I’ll own black stuff with a daily driver, but without AC black gets really ridiculous, really fast), maybe like a darker gray interior, especially if you were willing to go with cloth.

[clill]

Rally Green is a killer color when done right...Almost a candy ..Go with the Rally Green.

[race-rodz]

green.

[XcYZ]

Hey Tom, how about that video. :unibrow:

Freiburger, I see you got SEMA Media person of the year. Congrats. :thumbsup: Nice orb.

[Turbo Deuce]

The Motor Made 1025 Hp At 14 Pounds Of Boost And 32 Degrees Total Timing.5900 Rpm 1482 Hp At 29 Pounds Of Boost And 32 Degrees Timing 5600 Rpm.but Trust Me When You See The Video When The Motor Hits Beyond 1000 Hp It Jumps The Hp So Fast Its Hard To Read The Gauge It Would Have Made 1600+ But The Air Fuel Would Go From 11 To 1 To 13 In A Heart Beat So We Kept Having To Shut The Run Off Early.the Goal For David Was To Make A Streetable 1000 Hp And We Did That On Pump Gas .he Was Stoked.



This statement has made it all over the other forums. No one on this site has ask, so either they are used to the numbers or don't want to ask. There are some questions on the other sites. But the main one is the timing and boost numbers. I am not flaming or calling B.S, but allot are questioning the timing. I am not looking for trade secrets, but how about some thoughts on why this engine set-up can run timing abnormally higher than most in boost.

Most are saying this is at least 8 degrees more than usual and some even more than that. 8 degrees alone is allot of power to be had if it is indeed there.
Me.... I have a single T76, and on pump gas can run no more than 24 degrees with 11.5-11.8 A/F. I know that because mine is sitting on the engine stand now with burned pistons and some funny looking build-up on a combustion chamber. :eek:

I am just learning so anything you say I will store for further use. :D

I do have a couple of question that would help me.
1)Do you normally run this amount of timing?
2)What is piston depth in the hole?
3) Does the combustion chamber of that head require that much timing to be efficient?

Thanks in advance for any knowledge you share.

[TOM NELSON]

I Usually Run More Timing Than Most People Like.if They Call It B.s. That's Cool I'm Not Trying To Prove It To You.i Do It Everyday We Made 31 Pulls That Particular Day Over 1000 Hp With Plenty Of Timing.i Can Tell You Also If I Were To Pull The Pan On That Motor The Bearings Would Look Perfect.there Is A Difference Between Inductive Ignition And Capacitive.the Crank Degrees In Which The Spark Is Lit Is Quite A Bit .i Have Alot Of Street Cars In The High 7's Running With That Kind Of Timing.i Tend To Run More Fuel Than Most The Motor Likes The Extra Crank Degrees To Light It.you Have To Remember Every Motor Is Different.there Are Different Combustion Chambers Locations In Which The Spark Plug Is.different Piston Shapes.even The Crank Stroke Plays A Part In The Deal.we Just Had A V6 With A Single 76mm Turbo On It And A Set Of -10 Brodix's The Owner Who Brought His Tuner With Him Fought On The Dyno For A Whole Day And Could Not Make Over 450 Hp.they Were Running 22 Degrees At 18 Psi And Would Not Listen To Me About Adding Some Timing At The End Of The Day After They Beat This Thing To Death I Added 13 Degrees At 18 Psi And The Motor Picked Up 200 Hp.don't Be A Hater Tom

[Speedster]

This statement has made it all over the other forums. No one on this site has ask, so either they are used to the numbers or don't want to ask. There are some questions on the other sites. But the main one is the timing and boost numbers. I am not flaming or calling B.S, but allot are questioning the timing. I am not looking for trade secrets, but how about some thoughts on why this engine set-up can run timing abnormally higher than most in boost.

Most are saying this is at least 8 degrees more than usual and some even more than that. 8 degrees alone is allot of power to be had if it is indeed there.
Me.... I have a single T76, and on pump gas can run no more than 24 degrees with 11.5-11.8 A/F. I know that because mine is sitting on the engine stand now with burned pistons and some funny looking build-up on a combustion chamber. :eek:



I know you are not bashing Tom, just questioning the timing. If you doubt him, I am sure David Freiburger, who was present for all the dyno pulls would be a pretty good reference to ask.

[Turbo Deuce]

I Usually Run More Timing Than Most People Like.if They Call It B.s. That's Cool I'm Not Trying To Prove It To You.i Do It Everyday We Made 31 Pulls That Particular Day Over 1000 Hp With Plenty Of Timing.i Can Tell You Also If I Were To Pull The Pan On That Motor The Bearings Would Look Perfect.there Is A Difference Between Inductive Ignition And Capacitive.the Crank Degrees In Which The Spark Is Lit Is Quite A Bit .i Have Alot Of Street Cars In The High 7's Running With That Kind Of Timing.i Tend To Run More Fuel Than Most The Motor Likes The Extra Crank Degrees To Light It.you Have To Remember Every Motor Is Different.there Are Different Combustion Chambers Locations In Which The Spark Plug Is.different Piston Shapes.even The Crank Stroke Plays A Part In The Deal.we Just Had A V6 With A Single 76mm Turbo On It And A Set Of -10 Brodix's The Owner Who Brought His Tuner With Him Fought On The Dyno For A Whole Day And Could Not Make Over 450 Hp.they Were Running 22 Degrees At 18 Psi And Would Not Listen To Me About Adding Some Timing At The End Of The Day After They Beat This Thing To Death I Added 13 Degrees At 18 Psi And The Motor Picked Up 200 Hp.don't Be A Hater Tom

Tom, thanks for replying back. I am no hater... If you noticed I only want to know how you do it. Of course I understand your time and experience with tuning should not be just given away totally. Your example is even more proof that what you are doing is not something most do.


Great job on the engine again, David should be very happy with the finished product.

[TOM NELSON]

Sorry for jumping on you a little I took it the wrong way.I would say one thing you're seing with you're deal with a single t is the air inlet gets gets hot fast with the properly sized twins air inlet is way cooler.oil control is another little secret any oil in the chamber bang detonation.Ignition system is another one.low compression deals 8.5 and lower usually like more timing.Camshaft is also a player.I'm no genius i just play around with things until i think they work well and thats what has worked for me.The piston usually sets about .010 in the hole with a .040 gasket the combustion chamber is a brodix 11x cnc deal it has squish pads on both sides and the pistons are a reverse dish with quench pads also not just a bathtub.the real key to the power is the turbo's the turbo is the single most important thing you can do way more important than heads /cam/everything with the exception of building a stout motor.We as of right now on the small blocks have played with 64 different vararations of the turbos.I know thats not spelled right.When you get it right .hold on.But like i said every motor is different my engine masters chrysler 470 was 13.2 to 1 with 280 pounds cranking on pump gas and liked 26 degrees total it would actually lose 100 hp at 36.even on race gas.but some motors like timing some don't.I don't think there is any set deal.A general rule is with a small combustion chamber on a big displacement motor with a lot of arm in it and a flat top piston i would generally see it didn't need as much timing than a big domed big combustion chambered motor of the same size .But i don't no until i try it.thanks for the good words.Tom

[Turbo Deuce]

Thats good info Tom!

I had worried about compression ratios below 8.5 not giving enough power on street cars when not in boost, making them lazy at low rpm.

When you say good oil control, are you meaning better oil ring control or do you suggest running a evac system on boosted street engines?

I see allot of people struggling with PCV set-ups on street cars trying to relieve crankcase pressure and control oil leaks. Have any thoughts there??

Again thanks for the help.