Obamacare vs private insurance

[WSSix]

Here's an easy way to know the difference.


A guy goes to get a vasectomy. The nurse takes his vitals then tells him to undress and get on the exam table. He does. She then strips and has her way with him. For over an hour she pleases him in every way, runs thru the kama sutra twice, and throroughly exhausts him. Afterwards he says... "well that was great but what was that about?" She replies, " well research has shown that if a guy ejaculates before a vasectomy he tends to be more relaxed, the surgery goes better, now lets go back to the waiting room and wait for the doctor." Upon returning to the waiting room he see 5 men sitting on the floor all looking at a playboy and masturbating in a circle together. He asks the nurse, "whats your research say about them?!?". She replies, " oh no, that method isnt based on research. You have private insurance, they have obamacare."

[Z10ROD]

That alone should make everyone get heath insurance instead of paying the TAX / FINE

[IMPALA MAN]

This is from personal experience.
I will begin with a experience I had when I went to the pharmacy to get a prescription. First off, I have a $5,000 deductible policy. I go to the doctor only when needed (about once every five years). Long story short, I went to get my prescription and the lady handed it to me and said that will be $21.23. Then she said "Oh I forgot to ask. Do you have insurance?". Knowing I was no where near my deductible, I thought what do I have to loose. I replied "yes" and handed her my card. She ran it and said "Well that did change it a little. It now is only $4.23.". Ok so my bill went from $21.23 to $4.23!!!! That calculates out to about an 80percent discount. WHO HAS THAT KIND OF MARGIN? If you call anyone on this forum that sells parts NO ONE can afford to give you a 80 percent discount.
Here is why this happened. First off, either price I was charged, the insurance company was not going to pay any of it. Follow me now. My deductible is 5G. Once I pay 5G out of pocket, the insurance company has to start paying. The longer it takes my to pay 5G the less chance the insurance company will have to pay. Still don't get it. Ok try this, say I need this prescription filled once a month. Will I be closer to 5G $21.23 a month or $4.23 a month? Get it. The insurance company has a deal cut with the pharmacy to get a discount. An 80 percent discount. Once again WHO HAS THAT KIND OF MARGIN?

Now let's get to the bigger issue. When you go to the doctor or hospital and pay $100.00. This is an approximate estimate of what you are paying for:
$60.00 to cover the people that didn't pay their bill. (kind of like everyone paying more at Walmart because people shoplift)
$30.00 for the insurance the doctor / hospital has to have in case they get sued. Because they do every day! Just watch tv for an hour and see how many attorneys offeer their service.
$10.00 for your service.

The funny part is, you haven't even gotten your prescription yet.
Once again, they get sued also. Just watch tv.

So now the government is trying to make everyone pay for health care. Truthfully I think the intention is to make everyone pay their share. Look around and look at how many people are on disability. The taxpayer is paying for all of this. I'm not referring to your grandmother or grandfather that is 65 and paid their fair share their entire life. I'm not talking about the Army veteran that risked his life for our freedom. These people earned it and deserve it. I am talking about the guy down the street that gets a check every month, then you see him at the ball field playing ball, fishing, remodeling his house,etc.
I am talking about the teenager that get's pregnant and her and her boyfriend figure out that if they DO NOT get married, she will be classified as a single mother and can get free insurance and food stamps.
Welcome aboard taxpayer.
If everyone paid their fair share, didn't abuse the system and worked when they could, it would all work great. The government is in tough spot. In short how do you tell that many Americans, to do these things without causing major issues?

[GregWeld]

You must be talking about "entitlements" -- as in those that haven't earned diddly squat are entitled to live as if they have... "just because".


I have a niece --- 3 kids 3 different dads.... on every entitlement known to man. Can't work because she really only knows how to F... and can't work because she'd loose her entitlements if she did.


Here's my idea of entitlement... I'll pay an employer to hire you... and if you work and keep working - you'll get paid - the wage you should earn plus what you'd get on welfare. At least this way you'll get some training and might actually find yourself being useful like normal people do.

I don't mind paying taxes - I pay LOTS of taxes - what I do mind is my taxes going to foreign governments - of any kind - and my taxes going to pay people to sit not their duffs.. while my roads crumble and my bridges don't get built etc. Government should only be in the business of ROADS - EDUCATION - MILITARY - nothing else.

[Rick D]

Here I got a good one for you. About two years ago I'm at a shop working with the painter, now this is a union shop so he is making at the time 17.00 or so a book hour. He is bringing home about 1600 a week. Ok so we are talking and he tells me that he has to pay child support (good for him I think) then I said wait I thought you told me you and your WIFE brought your son to school today? He said well yah we are not married because if we we're then she wouldn't get a check from the state!!! :rolleyes: :wow: So then he shows me his new 22 inch wheels on his Expitidtion :mad: ,!

So then get this he ends up getting layed off from the shop and doesn't work for over a year and half! The shop ends up calling him back to work and I stop by to see how he's doing and if he needs any training to get him back up to speed on our products. So as I'm talking to him he tells me how he really didn't want to co e back to work because he was making almost the same money NOT working as he does working :wow: And then at lunch he shows me his NEW Expitidtion with the NEW 24's on it.

I haven't been back to the shop any more as I'm not sure if I can stand to see if he has a new caddy or new Vett or something else!! Well now I need to go to work to help pay for his new stuff!!

[GregWeld]

Yeah buddy! And why? Because he's ENTITLED to live that way...

And when enough people get PO'd about working full time and just making ends meet... while others sit on their butts doing nothing and living just as well or better MAYBE they'll decided to pay more attention to who and what they vote for.

[takid455]

The people just know the system. I had a brief involvement myself a few years back. My industry had a down fall and work was scarce. found some side jobs help with the state funds. According to the regs of the state, they don not encourage obtaining work!! your funds from the state will be considerable less than if you sat on your butt even with the most remedial reported income.
fast forward, found full time job just to get back into field. Looking back, after taxes and all the BS, sitting on butt pays about the same!

who's to blame? who's the smart guy?

[Bucketlist2012]

Yeah buddy! And why? Because he's ENTITLED to live that way...

And when enough people get PO'd about working full time and just making ends meet... while others sit on their butts doing nothing and living just as well or better MAYBE they'll decided to pay more attention to who and what they vote for.

Amen...

If you are poor, keep the present administration.

If you are Rich, sure you want it changed, but you will survive.

If you are Middle Class ? 4 more years and you may get crushed.

Personally, I have stopped worrying about it..I prepared MY economy and I just cannot worry what some people think or do.

But many who on the nipple, will vote for more milk..

[GregWeld]

The people just know the system. I had a brief involvement myself a few years back. My industry had a down fall and work was scarce. found some side jobs help with the state funds. According to the regs of the state, they don not encourage obtaining work!! your funds from the state will be considerable less than if you sat on your butt even with the most remedial reported income.
fast forward, found full time job just to get back into field. Looking back, after taxes and all the BS, sitting on butt pays about the same!

who's to blame? who's the smart guy?


The SMART GUY is the guy paying the most taxes... because he's making the most money and living the best... and will retire nicely.

The "nipple man" will have a crappy life controlled by "others".

I'm happy that you see the difference.

[Bucketlist2012]

The SMART GUY is the guy paying the most taxes... because he's making the most money and living the best... and will retire nicely.

The "nipple man" will have a crappy life controlled by "others".

I'm happy that you see the difference.

Well said..There is a glass ceiling on the nipple man..

Although the Illusion is they have Coach purses, Lexus, and don't work, they do not have the will power to make it the next level. They are fine in that comfort zone that certain government officials want them in.

The guy who is working and setting and achieving goals, will have the better life.:cheers:

[Sieg]

Here's a brief summary from a local CPA firm:

Summary
Tax changes affecting small businesses in the health reform legislation.


The Supreme Court has recently upheld the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (often called Obamacare). Since this decision affects nearly all taxpayers, the J&R Tax Department thought it would be helpful to revisit some of the key tax changes affecting small businesses and their workers as a result of this new law. Whether a business will be affected by these changes depends on a variety of factors, such as the number of workers the business employs. Do not take any action based on this information without first consulting your Certified Public Accountant. Feel free to call our offices for details of how the new changes may affect your specific situation.


Again, this law affects nearly all taxpayers, including:
· employers, whose health plans are subject to new rules and who face a penalty beginning in 2014 for not offering adequate health coverage to employees;
· health care businesses, including health providers, insurers, pharmaceutical companies and medical device makers who face new taxes, fees and rules; and
· individuals, who face new penalties for inadequate health coverage and several changes to health-related individual tax rules.


Tax credits to certain small employers that provide insurance. The new law provides small employers with a tax credit (i.e., a dollar-for-dollar reduction in tax) for non-elective contributions to purchase health insurance for their employees. The credit can offset an employer's regular tax or its alternative minimum tax (AMT) liability.
Small business employers eligible for the credit. To qualify, a business must offer health insurance to its employees as part of their compensation and contribute at least half the total premium cost. The business must have no more than 25 full-time equivalent employees (“FTEs”), and the employees must have annual full-time equivalent wages that average no more
than $50,000. However, the full amount of the credit is available only to an employer with 10 or
fewer FTEs and whose employees have average annual full-time equivalent wages from the
employer of less than $25,000.


Years the credit is available. The credit is initially available for any tax year beginning in 2010,
2011, 2012, or 2013. Qualifying health insurance for claiming the credit for this first phase of
the credit is health insurance coverage purchased from an insurance company licensed under
state law. For tax years beginning after 2013, the credit is only available to an eligible small
employer that purchases health insurance coverage for its employees through a state exchange
and is only available for two years. The maximum two-year coverage period does not take into
account any tax years beginning in years before 2014. Thus, an eligible small employer could
potentially qualify for this credit for six tax years, four years under the first phase and two years
under the second phase.


Calculating the amount of the credit. For tax years beginning in 2010, 2011, 2012, or 2013, the
credit is generally 35% (50% for tax years beginning after 2013) of the employer's non-elective
contributions toward the employees' health insurance premiums. The credit phases out as firmsize
and average wages increase. Tax-exempt small businesses meeting these requirements are
eligible for payroll tax credits of up to 25% for tax years beginning in 2010, 2011, 2012, or 2013
(35% in tax years beginning after 2013) of the employer's non-elective contributions toward the
employees' health insurance premiums.


Special rules. The employer is entitled to an ordinary and necessary business expense deduction
equal to the amount of the employer contribution minus the dollar amount of the credit. For
example, if an eligible small employer pays 100% of the cost of its employees' health insurance
coverage and the amount of the tax credit is 50% of that cost (i.e., in tax years beginning after
2013), the employer can claim a deduction for the other 50% of the premium cost.


Self-employed individuals, including partners and sole proprietors, 2% shareholders of an S corporation, and five percent owners of the employer are not treated as employees for purposes of this credit. Any employee with respect to a self-employed individual is not an employee of the employer for purposes of this credit if the employee is not performing services in the trade or business of the employer. Thus, the credit is not available for a domestic employee of a sole proprietor of a business. There is also a special rule to prevent sole proprietorships from receiving the credit for the owner and their family members. Thus, no credit is available for any contribution to the purchase of health insurance for these individuals and the individual is not taken into account in determining the number of full-time equivalent employees or average full-time equivalent wages.


Most small businesses exempted from penalties for not offering coverage to their employees. Although the new law imposes penalties on certain businesses for not providing coverage to their employees (so-called “pay or play”), most small businesses won't have to worry about this provision because employers with fewer than 50 employees aren't subject to the “pay or play” penalty. For businesses with at least 50 employees, the possible penalties vary depending on whether or not the employer offers health insurance to its employees. If it does not offer coverage and it has at least one full-time employee who receives a premium tax credit, the business will be assessed a fee of $2,000 per full-time employee, excluding the first 30 employees from the assessment. So, for example, an employer with 51 employees who doesn't offer health insurance to his employees will be subject to a penalty of $42,000 ($2,000 multiplied by 21). Employers with at least 50 employees that offer coverage but have at least one full-time employee receiving a premium tax credit (also allowed under the new law) will pay $3,000 for each employee receiving a premium credit (capped at the amount of the penalty that the employer would have been assessed for a failure to provide coverage, or $2,000 multiplied by the number of its full-time employees in excess of 30). These provisions take effect Jan. 1, 2014.


The “Cadillac tax” on high-cost health plans. The new law places an excise tax on high-cost employer-sponsored health coverage (often referred to as “Cadillac” health plans). This is a 40% excise tax on insurance companies, based on premiums that exceed certain amounts. The tax is not on employers themselves unless they are self-funded (this typically occurs at larger firms). However, it is expected that employers and workers will ultimately bear this tax in the form of higher premiums passed on by insurers.


Here are the specifics: The new tax, which applies for tax years beginning after Dec. 31, 2017, places a 40% nondeductible excise tax on insurance companies and plan administrators for any health coverage plan to the extent that the annual premium exceeds $10,200 for single coverage and $27,500 for family coverage. An additional threshold amount of $1,650 for single coverage and $3,450 for family coverage will apply for retired individuals age 55 and older and for plans that cover employees engaged in high risk professions. The tax will apply to self-insured plans and plans sold in the group market, but not to plans sold in the individual market (except for coverage eligible for the deduction for self-employed individuals). Stand-alone dental and vision plans will be disregarded in applying the tax. The dollar amount thresholds will be automatically increased if the inflation rate for group medical premiums between 2010 and 2018 is higher than the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates in 2010. Employers with age and gender demographics that result in higher premiums can value the coverage provided to employees using the rates that would apply using a national risk pool. The excise tax will be levied at the insurer level. Employers will be required to aggregate the coverage subject to the limit and issue information returns for insurers indicating the amount subject to the excise tax.
--------------------
How I interpret this is consult your CPA, Attorney, and Insurance Agent to insure you and your business are are appropriately positioned..............:rolleyes:

[sniper]

And when enough people get PO'd about working full time and just making ends meet... while others sit on their butts doing nothing and living just as well or better MAYBE they'll decided to pay more attention to who and what they vote for.

The problem is that there are far more peters than there are pauls. And their numbers are growing.

My simple minded approach to actually fixing the healthcare debacle. Name any other product or service that you purchase, wherein you have no idea of it's price. Yes you may pay a copay, and you may get a bill in the mail. But most of the time you never see the actual costs. How do we not know we are not getting hosed if we never know the price.

My fix would be this. PRICING on services BEFORE rendered. Then at least you could shop around or at worst barter or leverage yourself.

[tones2SS]

You must be talking about "entitlements" -- as in those that haven't earned diddly squat are entitled to live as if they have... "just because".


I have a niece --- 3 kids 3 different dads.... on every entitlement known to man. Can't work because she really only knows how to F... and can't work because she'd loose her entitlements if she did.


Here's my idea of entitlement... I'll pay an employer to hire you... and if you work and keep working - you'll get paid - the wage you should earn plus what you'd get on welfare. At least this way you'll get some training and might actually find yourself being useful like normal people do.

I don't mind paying taxes - I pay LOTS of taxes - what I do mind is my taxes going to foreign governments - of any kind - and my taxes going to pay people to sit not their duffs.. while my roads crumble and my bridges don't get built etc. Government should only be in the business of ROADS - EDUCATION - MILITARY - nothing else.

I agree Greg. Great post.:cheers:
What I hate is the "class warfare" talk as well. I always tell people that like to rip the rich/successful,.........."Have you ever worked for a poor person?" You should see how fast that shuts them up. lol

[intocarss]

http://www.aclu.org/pizza/images/screen.swf

[glassman]

Ok, that was scary funny!!

[Z10ROD]

some people just don't get it ! this new bill is so everyone will get health insurance !!! so the government DON'T have to pick up the tab for the people without. in the form TAXES the ones that r on assistance will almost always be there!! were talking about the 26 year old that knocks up his girlfriend and DON'T HAVE insurance.who picks up that bill? not having insurance is just irresponible . and that is the society we live in. Its a law to protect people like me against people like me.:rofl: :lateral:

[sniper]

some people just don't get it !
Its a law to protect people like me against people like me.:rofl: :lateral:

I don't think you get it. We are supposed to have those pesky little documents to guide our governments intrusions. You know the Constitution and that other one, The Bill of Rights. It's astounding that we forget our existence began because we fought a freakin war over a tax.

Our government has said, by the mere existence of being an American, I must purchase a "PRODUCT". We are going to increase the national debt by some trillions of dollars in order for less than 15% of our population to get coverage. Let's face it, we don't have a health "CARE" problem, we have an insurance and cost problem. And you do understand that you'll be paying more in premiums to cover all those people with conditions that were limited or denied before. If you think rates and costs are going to drop if we had 100% of people having insurance you've lost your mind.

Next let me ask you this. I don't have health insurance by choice. Let's say I pay the penalty every year for not having it, cause frankly it'll be cheaper. And one day I get sick. Do you know that I can then go and get "insurance" at the same rate of another person, whose had insurance for twenty years of my gender and age without paying a higher premium? What sense does that make? It totally defeats the purpose of having insurance.

not having insurance is just irresponible
Man this is just the reason we have so many wacky nuts in government. There are plenty of things that people do that are irresponsible, but how many of them would you like to legislate? No sales of big gulps?