Suggested EFI for a GM Crate LSX 454?

[PhillySpeedNYC]

I purchased one of these engines over the summer and have plans to use it in something soon.

GM does rate the power with a carb but the guys i spoke with at GM Performance didnt really have a suggested EFI kit.

I honestly want to run it with a Hilborn Style 8 stack but it has to be reliable for daily driving as i plan to drive this to work as much as i can

I am considering building a 65 Pontiac GTO using this powerplant matted to a Richmond gearbox.

suggestions on EFI shoot some replies as I am piecing together my parts bin now.

[67ragtp]

For driveability, FAST LSXr-102mm intake. Should tune real nice and flow well and make lots of power. Paint it, it aint the prettyest thing out there.

The Kinsler crossram is pure sex:

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/1058979-pics-baddest-street-attack-500-date-701hp-677tq-na-11-1cr-pump-gas.html

That bad boy is more than likely going to require a real good speed density tune to daily drive. Dont think I would do it for daily driving, just love looking at it :thumbsup:

FWIW- Put a T56 or a tko600 behind that engine, sounds like a great project, I think the 65 goat was the nicest year, love it!!

Rich

[supremeefi]

If you're going to go with an 8 stack, which I think would be really cool, then the Accel Thruster or Gen 7 would be your best choice.

Those systems have more transient fueling tables than a FAST, Holley or other and you'll need that to make it run it's best, especially if it's going to be a daily driver. The Accel has fueling tables that will help it perform the way it should. When tuned right they (8 stack manifolds) make great power, I've done a few.

[PhillySpeedNYC]

If you're going to go with an 8 stack, which I think would be cool them the Accel Thruster or Gen 7 would be your best choice.

Those systems have more transient fueling tables than a FAST, Holley or other and you'll need that to make it run it's best, especially if it's going to be a daily driver. The Accel has fueling tables that will help it perform the way it should. when tuned right they make great power, I've done a few.

Shoot me a PM on what you think i would need, are you a dealer for these parts?

[supremeefi]

Pm'd you.

[64duece]

I'm abit more biased to Holley's EFI lineup regardless of which manifold you choose. I know Supremeefi is definatly the guy to goto if Accel was your choice, however it's the last system I'd personally recommend.

I tuned a few successfully, they're just not up to date and alot more cumbersome. Even with all the added tables, I'm able to get just as good results with "less tables" having faster processing, more resolution and more advanced backround algorithms.

[supremeefi]

I'm abit more biased to Holley's EFI lineup regardless of which manifold you choose. I know Supremeefi is definatly the guy to goto if Accel was your choice, however it's the last system I'd personally recommend.

I tuned a few successfully, they're just not up to date and alot more cumbersome. Even with all the added tables, I'm able to get just as good results with "less tables" having faster processing, more resolution and more advanced backround algorithms.

The new Holley system is a big jump from the 950, it had to be, that had a lot to be desired. But just a little fyi for instance, FAST's new 2.0 for instance now has about 3 or 4 transient fueling tables/features that the Accel has had since '04.

And when you have more transient fueling tables you CAN'T have worse drivability, unless you don't know how to use them.
Again the new Holley system is much better than it's little brother but I'd still put the drivability of the Accel against anything in this class.
How many patents does the Holley or FAST have? 0, Accel? 3. The Accel was the innovator. And for sake of arguement I became an Accel dealer after I bought the system.

Thanks.

[camcojb]

The new Holley system is a big jump from the 950, it had to be, that had a lot to be desired. But just a little fyi for instance, FAST's new 2.0 for instance now has about 3 or 4 transient fueling tables/features that the Accel has had since '04.

And when you have more transient fueling tables you CAN'T have worse drivability, unless you don't know how to use them.
Again the new Holley system is much better than it's little brother but I'd still put the drivability of the Accel against anything in this class.
How many patents does the Holley or FAST have? 0, Accel? 3. The Accel was the innovator. And for sake of arguement I became an Accel dealer after I bought the system.

Thanks.
Accel didn't even know how to use them when I was tuning one............ :lol: THE most frustrating system to tune for me at the time. Replaced my buddies unit (which I talked him into based just on the specs) with a FAST and had it running perfect the same afternoon. Spent months on that thing with the Accel Gen VII and never got it right.

I am POSITIVE it's very capable, but it is not the easiest to tune. In my opinion it's the most difficult I've ever done, and I've done quite a few different systems. Once you figure it out it's probably great, and maybe at some point in the future I may try it again. Just explain that TAU vs map box and I'll be good to go. :willy: All Accel could tell me is to play with it. And no, I am NOT kidding. :rolleyes: :D The dealer I bought it from didn't know exactly how to set that up either; couldn't explain what it was even trying to do, but it's a major part of the transient tuning.

I think they did a lot of damage when that system was first released by letting pretty much anybody become an EMIC. The vast majority of them had no idea how to use the software, and couldn't help the end-users. That had to hurt the reputation. The 3-4 dealers in my area all stopped carrying it in within months of starting the program.

[64duece]

The new Holley system is a big jump from the 950, it had to be, that had a lot to be desired. But just a little fyi for instance, FAST's new 2.0 for instance now has about 3 or 4 transient fueling tables/features that the Accel has had since '04.

And when you have more transient fueling tables you CAN'T have worse drivability, unless you don't know how to use them.
Again the new Holley system is much better than it's little brother but I'd still put the drivability of the Accel against anything in this class.
How many patents does the Holley or FAST have? 0, Accel? 3. The Accel was the innovator. And for sake of arguement I became an Accel dealer after I bought the system.

Thanks.

I agree in lots of areas...the C950 was never meant to compete with the likes of Felpro/SpeedPro or Accel 6.0 (at that time). Only meant to supercede the 4DI offering they had...which was never a "serious" venture into EFI. The Accel units were pioneers in the day....so was the gold rush of 1848!

That being said...I've tune old school Motec M48's which could do "anything" you wanted back in the day...but it was alot of work for myself even though I had literally hundreds of hours on everything from Accel, Haltech, SDS etc...

I support many systems...there is one fact and Jody pointed that out above...the end user just can't wrap their heads around the deepest concepts..so whether is a Sportsman or Pro key option...a majority of end users won't ever get that deep. I must compliment you on your abilities with the system...it does have some good merits but, still stand behind my though that it's dated and are better options today.

[supremeefi]

Accel didn't even know how to use them when I was tuning one............ :lol: THE most frustrating system to tune for me at the time. Replaced my buddies unit (which I talked him into based just on the specs) with a FAST and had it running perfect the same afternoon. Spent months on that thing with the Accel Gen VII and never got it right.

I am POSITIVE it's very capable, but it is not the easiest to tune. In my opinion it's the most difficult I've ever done, and I've done quite a few different systems. Once you figure it out it's probably great, and maybe at some point in the future I may try it again. Just explain that TAU vs map box and I'll be good to go. :willy: All Accel could tell me is to play with it. And no, I am NOT kidding. :rolleyes: :D The dealer I bought it from didn't know exactly how to set that up either; couldn't explain what it was even trying to do, but it's a major part of the transient tuning.

I think they did a lot of damage when that system was first released by letting pretty much anybody become an EMIC. The vast majority of them had no idea how to use the software, and couldn't help the end-users. That had to hurt the reputation. The 3-4 dealers in my area all stopped carrying it in within months of starting the program.

Jody I couldn't agree more. There are still guys today who have no clue how to tune them and they're still "dealers". But that's what the Pro and Sportsmans keys were supposed to eliminate as well, guys that had no clue. That way they could only screw up so much.;)

TAU -this was borrowed from Ford. Just think of it as an imaginary puddle of fuel that gathers in any manifold. The object is to maintain that puddle, throughout acceleration and deceleration. This is normally for light tip in, i.e. on and off the throttle during typical driving conditions. This is temperature driven, that's a good thing and when set up correctly can really enhance drivability, especially on big cammed applications. The larger the numbers and/or the smaller the gap between them the leaner it will be. The opposite is true if you need it to be richer.

On the flipside, when I as loading the software for the new FAST 2.0 I had some questions. I called FAST, they gave me the names of 5 guys here in Fl to speak with.
1 was out of business, 1 moved to Indy, 1 was Ramseys in Tampa, who I bought my Accel system from in '04. I wouldn't let him replace the spark plug in my lawnmower. Same problem you had Jody, no real knowledge of the systems, FAST or Accel.
The other 2 references I called, 1 called me back. By that time I had figured it out for myself.
My point? I agree too few good tuners out there, at least on this stuff.

Actually I'd put the new Holley ahead of the FAST 2.0, I wasn't impressed with the new running tables on that at all.

For the record, if anybody has any questions regarding the tuning of the Accel, fire away, happy to help.

I'd still put it above all else is driving quality any day, in the hands of a competent tuner of course.

Thanks guys.

[camcojb]

Jody I couldn't agree more. There are still guys today who have no clue how to tune them and they're still "dealers". But that's what the Pro and Sportsmans keys were supposed to eliminate as well, guys that had no clue. That way they could only screw up so much.;)

TAU -this was borrowed from Ford. Just think of it as an imaginary puddle of fuel that gathers in any manifold. The object is to maintain that puddle, throughout acceleration and deceleration. This is normally for light tip in, i.e. on and off the throttle during typical driving conditions. This is temperature driven, that's a good thing and when set up correctly can really enhance drivability, especially on big cammed applications. The larger the numbers and/or the smaller the gap between them the leaner it will be. The opposite is true if you need it to be richer.

On the flipside, when I as loading the software for the new FAST 2.0 I had some questions. I called FAST, they gave me the names of 5 guys here in Fl to speak with.
1 was out of business, 1 moved to Indy, 1 was Ramseys in Tampa, who I bought my Accel system from in '04. I wouldn't let him replace the spark plug in my lawnmower. Same problem you had Jody, no real knowledge of the systems, FAST or Accel.
The other 2 references I called, 1 called me back. By that time I had figured it out for myself.
My point? I agree too few good tuners out there, at least on this stuff.

Actually I'd put the new Holley ahead of the FAST 2.0, I wasn't impressed with the new running tables on that at all.

For the record, if anybody has any questions regarding the tuning of the Accel, fire away, happy to help.

I'd still put it above all else is driving quality any day, in the hands of a competent tuner of course.

Thanks guys.
I definitely appreciate your participation on this board, and if I ever end up in an Accel again I will probably have some questions. :unibrow:

Same goes for Dennis (64deuce), it's great to have pro tuners like you and Mike Norris that participate on the site. :cheers:

[PhillySpeedNYC]

All I know is the vision in my head shows a Hilborn or Kinsler injection stacks as to what will run it, no idea just yet as i am planning this build still.

After seeing the 1964 GTO that was built for Raybestos at SEMA, i got hooked on doing the Hilborn with LSX in a Goat, for anyone who has not seen that car , just look it up, its mean as hell.

Considering the route i plan to go i may look into using a GM harness and OEM styled computer tunable through EFI Live.