ls9

[morris69]

Is anyone running a ls9? What are the pros and cons. If any

[Firebirdsteve]

Pros: It's a total beast!
Cons: It's frickin $20,000

[camcojb]

Is anyone running a ls9? What are the pros and cons. If any

Cool setup. Cons are cost, and the fuel system needed to run it. It does not use a standard 58 psi LS setup, think it's close to 100 psi under boost with a specific pump controller and pump setup.

You may be able to run it with an aftermarket ECU and aftermarket injectors and pump/regulator; I have not researched that. But the factory fuel system is very expensive.

[hifi875]

the only con is cost. my father in-law had one in a 67 chevyII w/t56 magnum and it was a beast. started out with a 6l90 tranny but had ecu issues that caused it to do some weird stuff. If you can afford one, get one. they also make a statement when you pop the hood. alot more so than a ls w a aftermarket supercharger, even though they run as strong. just my .02

[mikels]

Cool setup. Cons are cost, and the fuel system needed to run it. It does not use a standard 58 psi LS setup, think it's close to 100 psi under boost with a specific pump controller and pump setup.

You may be able to run it with an aftermarket ECU and aftermarket injectors and pump/regulator; I have not researched that. But the factory fuel system is very expensive.

You can run an LS9 with conventional fixed fuel presssure but will need larger injectors (production injectors are not large enough without 600 kPa fuel pressure that FSCM (Fuel System Control Module) commands when under higher load).

LS9 production fuel system is expensive, but very trick and works very well (3-phase DC fuel pump with variable pressure delivery based on ECM requested pressure). Fuel delivery for any high bandwidth engine will always be difficult (and expensive) to do correctly.

Can run with E67 production controller as well with fixed pressure.

[camcojb]

You can run an LS9 with conventional fixed fuel presssure but will need larger injectors (production injectors are not large enough without 600 kPa fuel pressure that FSCM (Fuel System Control Module) commands when under higher load).

LS9 production fuel system is expensive, but very trick and works very well (3-phase DC fuel pump with variable pressure delivery based on ECM requested pressure). Fuel delivery for any high bandwidth engine will always be difficult (and expensive) to do correctly.

Can run with E67 production controller as well with fixed pressure.
thanks for the info Dave! For those that don't know, Dave knows more about the LS9 tuning than anyone I know of, so if he says it can be done, it can. :thumbsup:

[Stielow]

You can run an LS9 with conventional fixed fuel presssure but will need larger injectors (production injectors are not large enough without 600 kPa fuel pressure that FSCM (Fuel System Control Module) commands when under higher load).

LS9 production fuel system is expensive, but very trick and works very well (3-phase DC fuel pump with variable pressure delivery based on ECM requested pressure). Fuel delivery for any high bandwidth engine will always be difficult (and expensive) to do correctly.

Can run with E67 production controller as well with fixed pressure.

We set up Red Devil with larger flow injectors and it works great!

Stielow

[clill]

The LS9 is expensive but it is the best engine I have owned. Smooth trouble free power. First old car I have had that I don't need to look at the gauges. It just runs.

[clill]

And in the above pic where Stielow is drifting, I would be doing a doughnut.:willy:

[morris69]

@clill is that with nods and what tranny and gears are u running.

[camcojb]

@clill is that with nods and what tranny and gears are u running.

Morris,

I believe the motor is stock with headers and custom tune. He just bumped the boost a couple pounds or so with a re-tune from Dave Mikels. Car has a T56 6 speed and (I believe) 3.70 gears. It ran very well at stock boost (I got to drive it) but Charley said it's noticeably better and faster with the pulley swap and re-tune.

[youthpastor]

You can run an LS9 with conventional fixed fuel presssure but will need larger injectors (production injectors are not large enough without 600 kPa fuel pressure that FSCM (Fuel System Control Module) commands when under higher load).

LS9 production fuel system is expensive, but very trick and works very well (3-phase DC fuel pump with variable pressure delivery based on ECM requested pressure). Fuel delivery for any high bandwidth engine will always be difficult (and expensive) to do correctly.

Can run with E67 production controller as well with fixed pressure.

help! I have a '67 Nova in the shop with an LS9, no computer, harness or tank. Hector at Rick's is selling me a tank with a CTS-V pump. Is this the right set-up? who do I goto for the harness and computer? Dave would you be interested in building a harness and computer?- Chris

[Ron in SoCal]

help! I have a '67 Nova in the shop with an LS9, no computer, harness or tank. Hector at Rick's is selling me a tank with a CTS-V pump. Is this the right set-up? who do I goto for the harness and computer? Dave would you be interested in building a harness and computer?- Chris

Hey Chris - Travis 'Daytonayellaz' is building harnesses and selling them to guys over on the other site. He has two harnesses for the LS9 being built right now. You can PM here or there. :thumbsup:

[youthpastor]

Hey Chris - Travis 'Daytonayellaz' is building harnesses and selling them to guys over on the other site. He has two harnesses for the LS9 being built right now. You can PM here or there. :thumbsup:'

thanks Ron, I'll check it out

[MCB Matt]

Travis is a great guy....honest and knows LS very well.

LS9 is just plan badass IMO

I would love to put one in a shop car!! :cheers:

[parsonsj]

Very interesting discussion. Can any of you veterans disclose the particulars? What kind of pump, what pressures? What size injectors?

I've got a couple CTS-V pumps around... would that work?

[Amituk]

defo going to run a LS9 in nighthawk!!

Gonna be even harder here in the UK with lack of knowledge but nothing about my project is going to be easy!

[mikels]

Very interesting discussion. Can any of you veterans disclose the particulars? What kind of pump, what pressures? What size injectors?

I've got a couple CTS-V pumps around... would that work?

Jackass runs full ZR1 fuel system (3-phase DC pump with FSCM integrated with ECM - fuel pressure from 250-600 kPa feeding 6.2 g/sec injectors). Expensive, but works very well feeding ~700 HP Supercharged.

Red Devil runs a CTS-V fuel pump assembly (2009+) with a Kenne Bell Boost-a-Pump and 9.2 g/sec injectors with a fixed 450 kPa fuel pressure. Great system feeding 780 HP Supercharged.

Mayem runs dual ZL1 fuel pump assemblies with Vaporworks fuel pump control (full PWM on single pump till under boost then dual pump PWM control to keep 450 kPa rail pressure with 11.5 g/sec injectors). Even better system feeding 880 HP Supercharged.

Keep in mind with supercharged applications injector has to be sized to handle expected engine output + blower drive power and operate at a lower delta-P across injector.

Rick's Tanks and Vaporworks offer complete systems now (tank, fuel modules, etc).

http://www.rickstanks.com/vaporworks-tanks.php

http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Accessories_pg/Boost%20A%20Pump/layouts/boostapump.htm

Do NOT skimp on fuel system for bigger power engines! Issue is not just peak HP fuel delivery, but idle and low-flow situations without excessive heat generation. PWM control of fuel pump(s) is best to meet dynamic range required - and Vaporworks system (combined with Rick's tanks) works fantastic.

defo going to run a LS9 in nighthawk!!

Gonna be even harder here in the UK with lack of knowledge but nothing about my project is going to be easy!

Brian Thomson (http://www.thomsonautomotive.com/) has worked with many customers overseas for complete turn-key packages for many different LS engine packages.

Can't go wrong with an LS9.

[parsonsj]

Mayem runs dual ZL1 fuel pump assemblies with Vaporworks fuel pump control (full PWM on single pump till under boost then dual pump PWM control to keep 450 kPa rail pressure with 11.5 g/sec injectors). Even better system feeding 880 HP Supercharged.
Thanks Dave! Been on the phone with Hector at Rick's and Carl at Vaporworx. Dual CTS-V pumps, Hobbes switch, custom PWM controller, etc. are all now in the works.

Not sure what an 11.5g/sec injector is... just convert to lbs / hour? Multiply by 7.94; so 11.5 g/sec = 91 lb injector?

450 kPa / 6.89 kPa/psi = 65 psi?

[mikels]

Thanks Dave! Been on the phone with Hector at Rick's and Carl at Vaporworx. Dual CTS-V pumps, Hobbes switch, custom PWM controller, etc. are all now in the works.

Not sure what an 11.5g/sec injector is... just convert to lbs / hour? Multiply by 7.94; so 11.5 g/sec = 91 lb injector?

450 kPa / 6.89 kPa/psi = 65 psi?

Conversions look correct.

I've had great results using 450-500 kPa with modern Bosch or Siemens DEKA injectors. They both function well at pressures up to 700 kPa, but don't want to run that pressure sustained.

The 11.5 g/sec were sized with the plan of trying E85, so little oversized for gas, but low pulse-width control wasn't an issue.

You've got the right guys engaged for your fuel system - you'll be happy with results.

[CarlC]

Thanks for the kudos Dave!

I agree completely with your statements about fueling. The fuel requirements of today are not the same as your grandfather's Chevrolet.

Mayhem was a bit of a challenge with the dual ZL1 fuel modules, but the use of a Hobb's switch to control when the second fuel module is activated (still using PWM) cured some of the hurdles. The VaporWorx control system can handle three ZL1 fuel modules @ 100% DC from a power standpoint, so if you really want to crank it up......

Another method to control the relay would be to use the output from an aftermarket ECM that sent a signal at a specific MAP setting. This would work for aftermarket ECM's. I don't believe GM ECM's have this capability.