Supercharging ?

[arrowem]

Hi, I figured of all the forums I frequent, this is THE place for a supercharging question. I am new to the concept of supercharging MY engine. I was formulating a build and then just when I was about to pull the trigger...BAM, someone came out with an elegant way (kit) to add a supercharger to an old pontiac engine and keep it under the hood...SOLD!!!!
Just an update- It will be a '68 468ci Pontiac block, aluminum heads, carburated. I am planing on a D1SC.

Now my questions.
1) Due to the price of the units themselves, I have been looking on ebay. Is a D1SC that came in a Mustang kit the same as if I bought one off the shelf? I know the brackets and some of the piping would be tossed but I would think I could reuse some parts.

2) Is there a simple diagram of supercharger plumbing? Like where does all that piping go into and out of?

3) If adding an intercooler, are they universal? The guy who builds the kits told me they are a $1800 add on, but I see them on ebay for $100-200.

4) Where does the intercooler fit in to the plumbing scheme?

Thanks, Jason

[speedjohnston]

1. a D1sc is a D1sc. if you have any doubts you can allways call procharger with a serial #.
2. Piping is from blower to carb. The blow off type race valve goes in the pipe in between.
3. Do not buy a $100 intercooler off e-bay. They have to be sized for your application or they are a waste or a restriction. Procharger makes good intercoolers and so does Bell. (lots of others as well) Poor intercoolers even come apart under boost at times.
http://www.procharger.com/intercooled.shtml
4. blower - intercooler - carb and usually the valve between the carb and intercooler

you need a special blow through carb
http://www.procharger.com/bebs.shtml

There are drawings and lots of tech info on the procharger site

These guys do prochargers on pontiac engines, and I'm sure there are others. There are pics of installed kits on there site.
http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/pontiacdude428/kensspeedandmachineshop.html

I love boost! :cheers:

[camcojb]

Hi, I figured of all the forums I frequent, this is THE place for a supercharging question. I am new to the concept of supercharging MY engine. I was formulating a build and then just when I was about to pull the trigger...BAM, someone came out with an elegant way (kit) to add a supercharger to an old pontiac engine and keep it under the hood...SOLD!!!!
Just an update- It will be a '68 468ci Pontiac block, aluminum heads, carburated. I am planing on a D1SC.

Now my questions.
1) Due to the price of the units themselves, I have been looking on ebay. Is a D1SC that came in a Mustang kit the same as if I bought one off the shelf? I know the brackets and some of the piping would be tossed but I would think I could reuse some parts.

2) Is there a simple diagram of supercharger plumbing? Like where does all that piping go into and out of?

3) If adding an intercooler, are they universal? The guy who builds the kits told me they are a $1800 add on, but I see them on ebay for $100-200.

4) Where does the intercooler fit in to the plumbing scheme?

Thanks, Jason
1. as long as it's the normal rotation model it should be fine. They have some like the older Vettes where the blower faces the engine and it spins backwards, which would not work in the normal mounted systems. I recommend before you buy any used Procharger to get the serial number off of it and call Procharger to see if it's had any issues, blown up, warranted, etc. All the mounting brackets and piping would probably have to be re-done. If you have the ability to make them that's a way to go, but if you're planning on buying them from Procharger I'd recommend getting a price first, because it's almost always cheaper to buy the complete kit new than it is to buy a used blower and all new brackets, spacers, pulleys, etc. Procharger charges a lot to buy the stuff separately.

2. Should be some diagrams on the Procharger site.

3. Intercoolers are universal for the most part, although some are specifically sized and shaped to fit particular cars. You'll need to determine where you can fit one (if air to air it needs to be in front of the radiator). You have to watch sizing because if you get one that's too small or restrictive you can actually lose power by running it. Gotta watch the cheap Ebay ones, many are not efficient. Another to watch are the used Diesel units, again in many cases they can't flow well enough and in many cases the guys lost power. A lot of the Procharger guys don't run an intercooler and use water/alcohol injection instead. I've done that and it works great, plus with a blow through carb you get some additional air temp reduction. I prefer an intercooler but sometimes there's no room and/or no budget to get a proper one in.

4. An intercooler goes between the blower and the carb in your case.

Additionally, carb and carb hat make a huge difference in the power and driveability of the car. I had great luck with Scott at http://www.sd-concepts.com/pages/cfHome.cfm for my carbs. His were spot on out of the box, and worlds ahead of my own carbs modded as per Procharger.

Jody

[arrowem]

Is a blow off valve needed? what does it do? where does it purge to?

Also, what are people paying for just the SC unit new? (not advertised, actual price)

[speedjohnston]

You need the blow off valve to relieve the pressure built up when you back off the gas, otherwise bad things will happen.
Read all the tech info on the procharger site. If you just want a few pounds of boost you'll be ok, but if you want to make serious power you need to do lots of reading. ;)

[arrowem]

I'm looking to use 7-10 lbs max which should get me into the 700's.

[camcojb]

Is a blow off valve needed? what does it do? where does it purge to?

Also, what are people paying for just the SC unit new? (not advertised, actual price)
it would actually use a surge valve with a Procharger, and yes it is needed. On a Procharged setup the valve would be open at idle and high vacuum times like cruising. Vents the extra pressurized air that stacks up in the intake when you don't need it there. Under boost it closes and allows full boost, and then coming off of boost, like if you snapped the throttle shut, it re-opens and vents the boost (usually to atmosphere) and prevents damage to the blower.

[SuperB70]

How about twinscrew? They have zero lack and no need for intercoolers.

[camcojb]

How about twinscrew? They have zero lack and no need for intercoolers.
the twin screw superchargers like Kenne Bell use intercoolers. They're liquid to air and are built into the intake manifold.

Jody

[SuperB70]

the twin screw superchargers like Kenne Bell use intercoolers. They're liquid to air and are built into the intake manifold.

Jody


Yes newer high end models do have but you dont need it so bad as in others cos twinscrew don't make heat as much. In street/strip use you can drive without cooler. If you looking over 1000hp but then it wound fit under the hood.

Here, please go and read to chapter of intercooling: http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Common/pdfs/twinscrew-vs-roots-fromcatalog.pdf

[camcojb]

Yes newer high end models do have but you dont need it so bad as in others cos twinscrew don't make heat as much. In street/strip use you can drive without cooler. If you looking over 1000hp but then it wound fit under the hood.

Here, please go and read to chapter of intercooling: http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Common/pdfs/twinscrew-vs-roots-fromcatalog.pdf
thanks for the info............ :)

[arrowem]

I'm pretty sure a twin screw would not fit an old Pontiac and keep it under the hood.

[SuperB70]

Why is that? How do you came to that conclusion?

You could use lower than normal 4barrel intake manifold, charger it self is only about 4" tall, it can been painted, plated or chromed, chargers intake is either back, front or above. Front or back intake model fit just fine.

If do little intake machining or use custom intake, I pet you can do twin screw system as low as original 4barrel and cleaner.

Once I planed to use Cobra Mustangs supercharger and intercooler on Audi A8 4.2 V8 way that it would been under original plastic intake cover, only cooler water hoses and belt would bee seen. And belt pulley would been replacing original belt guide puller. In 'stang the intercooler is above charger and chager is low in liftervalley.

[arrowem]

Maybe I'm wrong but can you direct me to a twin screw design that fits a '68 block Pontiac? Do the use a carb also or do I have to convert to FI?

[SuperB70]

If you want to run with carb, it would not fit under the hood.

I think there aint teady bolt on kit for Pontiac but its not rocket sciense.:_paranoid

If you dont want to do little machining and assembly (maeby even little aluminium welding) maeby this is not for you. :willy:

If injection it can. Here is how I would do it:

Use normal 4 barrel intake ( I prefer to start with new, much better to weld, pay off at the end), buy an rear intake supercharger and throttlebody from kenne bell or whipple..or take a risk and go ebay, craigslist, (and so on)for used. 8 injector mountingplugs to weld to intake runners for installing of the injector.

Get your hands on aluminium plate a least 1/2" thick, size same as blower to to bolt blower to intake. Its call'd drive plate. Machined it to match intake carburator mouting bolt battern and bolting battern of the supercharger and discharge opening of course. Note that you have to cheak the belt lineing correct. that will mean that position of the charger is critical. Plan it twice, make it once.:thumbsup:

Otherway is to machine the intake so low that intake opening gets biggers and there is no carburator flange anymore. Then weld(or bolt, mae have to weld pieces of solid rod to get bolting points) drive plate to intake and then you can bolt blower to intake. For roots blowers, intake modification from 4b to blower has been done for decades.

Buy megasquirt (newes version, bre assy.) engine injection-managament and set of desent size injectors. It's cheap and working system.

Best and cooles way to incorporate blowers ridbelt to older engines is to buy ridbelt style pulley kit from that engine and add a blower to it. Then you have everything running with that same belt and have a tensioner present.

This is just scratch of the surface, to get idea how to start to do it or a way I would to it.

Or you can leave all this to the machineshop to do, I bet there are many shop to do this kind of convertion.