Help me Plan out My EZ EFI Sytem - Regular or Multiport - Also Help with Fuel System

[Old66Tiger]

Hey guys...new to LatG and glad to be here.

I have a 66 GTO with a 461 aluminum headed roller motor in it. The motor is good for about 550 HP. I am currently running the RPM dual plane intake with a custom Q-Jet. Looking to make the car a bit more friendly on the street.

I was looking at the EZ EFI and the EZ for multiport. I am trying to decide which one is the better route to go for my car. The EZ EFI will keep me from having to sell my old intake and buy a $400 EFI ready intake. However, it sounds like there is some benefits to running a dry intake - just need to know what they are. Is one really better than the other for the street?

Also, I have a stock tank with a -8an pick up and return. I don't have the $1200 to spend on a Rick's tank and I don't like the looks of the external sumpd units. I was thinking about installing one of the tanksinc units that has the little tray and the pump with return contained together. Also, thought of cutting the top of my tank apart and installing internal baffles with one of the Tanks.inc pumps. My tank is used so cutting a welding is a bit precarious. I heard guys using a argon blanket or the exhaust from a running car to evacuate the oxygen from the tank. However, once the top is cut off, it will be open to the ambient air. Can i make the sump out of regular steel or should I be using galvanized steel. The fumes from galvanized are really bad for you.

[GregWeld]

Welcome!

Okay --

I have the EZ EFI on my Nomad - 406 - 8 stack - so running the Multiport set up. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE this system - and migrated from the Accel Gen 7 stuff.

A couple of things to think about.

Make sure your motor has good - fairly steady - vacuum.... if it's really low and jumping all over the place -- you'll have "issues".

I had my cam ground on a 114* LSA to insure a good vacuum source.... it's critical.

FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS --- when they say run the power source all the way to the battery -- they mean it. Heavy gauge high quality wiring with quality connectors... don't short cut this!

Tach signal is best taken DIRECTLY off the tach output of an MSD box - or similar brand.

As for the question of wet or dry intake --- everything is a trade off -- but for the street -- I doubt you'd know the difference between them... so if money is an issue - just run their conversion kit for the carb intake.... it works great and you'd be plenty happy. If you want "looks" etc -- then step up and spend the money for the multiport intake and throttle body. Again - doubt you'd feel or know the difference.

There are several threads on here regarding this EFI system -- including some videos of installs by members here....

RE: Your tank

Main thing to know.... you're pumping a lot of fuel THRU this system since it's a return type EFI.... you don't want to AREATE the fuel with the return line --- and you don't want to "uncover" your pickup on hard starts and cornering or going up steep grades! A suitable well planned fuel system is critical. Most guys use their existing supply line as the return line -- and install a new (larger) fuel supply line.

#2 --- there are threads on here about welding fuel tanks. I even started one myself. The key here is WASHING the tank with SOAP -- not just water (water and gas don't mix) and using he sniff test -- if it smells like gas there is gas and or fumes remaining.... and instead of killing yourself with exhaust pipe gas ---- use DRY ICE.... it turns into CO2 as it "melts" and that is an inert gas - it forces the O2 out... Read the thread on it.

Depending on the size of your current supply line (you do NOT want to go lean on WOT!!) you can use it as a supply and add a return - some guys run the return fuel into the fill neck of their tank.... If you have questions etc post up some pics in this thread and we'll all try to help you! Don't guess -- ask lots of questions -- there's GREAT people on here...
:cheers:

[Old66Tiger]

Hi Greg,

I run about 11-12" of vacuum with this cam. It does not bounce much more than 1" at any time. Although, this is idling at 750 RPM and I would like to idle higher, but my carb likes to drip off the booster with more RPM than that. I think if i idled higher, the vacuum would be almost 12" Is 11" with 1" of bounce enough vacuum?

I am planning a MSD 6AL2 unit with the rev limiter. That is a nice box and should work well.

I am really stuck on the two different systems. I wish there was a clear cut advantage, but i am not finding one.

I have a thought on the tank. I will sketch something up tomorrow and post it. I hate the looks of the rear sumps. They just look odd on a pro-touring car. My idea involves cutting a 12"X12" hole in the top front portion of the tank, making a box that fits in this area with 3 trap doors. One in the back, and one on each side. The idea is that under hard acceleration, gas will force the rear door shut and trap the fuel in the sump. On a hard decel, the fule will open the trap door and fill the sump. Same goes for the side trap doors. A hard right will close the left side trap door and open the right side trap door and vise versa. The top of the box would be welded or soldered to the top of the tank and the pump and the lines would be screwed into the top of the sump box.

Since this is a used tank, i figured that it would be a good place to practice. I just need to get it cleaned out enough to cut and weld on it. Is there any solution that can help with this? i like the dry ice idea. Where can a fella get some of that?

I was going to have the pump draw out of one compartment of the box and have the return dump into another compartment. This will allow me to recess the box down about 1" below the top of the tank so i can get the lines in and out of the top of the sump box. I have -8An aeroquip line running from the rear to the front and i also have the factory 5/16" line that i could use for return. Will that work for this application?.

Thanks for the help. Bob

[GregWeld]

I put my responses in the quote in red... hope it helps.



Hi Greg,

I run about 11-12" of vacuum with this cam. It does not bounce much more than 1" at any time. Although, this is idling at 750 RPM and I would like to idle higher, but my carb likes to drip off the booster with more RPM than that. I think if i idled higher, the vacuum would be almost 12" Is 11" with 1" of bounce enough vacuum? That's plenty of vacuum and is pretty darn steady!

I am planning a MSD 6AL2 unit with the rev limiter. That is a nice box and should work well. Perfect.

I am really stuck on the two different systems. I wish there was a clear cut advantage, but i am not finding one. Can't help ya there...

I have a thought on the tank. I will sketch something up tomorrow and post it. I hate the looks of the rear sumps. They just look odd on a pro-touring car. My idea involves cutting a 12"X12" hole in the top front portion of the tank, making a box that fits in this area with 3 trap doors. One in the back, and one on each side. The idea is that under hard acceleration, gas will force the rear door shut and trap the fuel in the sump. On a hard decel, the fule will open the trap door and fill the sump. Same goes for the side trap doors. A hard right will close the left side trap door and open the right side trap door and vise versa. The top of the box would be welded or soldered to the top of the tank and the pump and the lines would be screwed into the top of the sump box. Complicated.. I don't like moving parts...

Since this is a used tank, i figured that it would be a good place to practice. I just need to get it cleaned out enough to cut and weld on it. Is there any solution that can help with this? i like the dry ice idea. Where can a fella get some of that? Soapy water - I used SIMPLE GREEN - twice - rinsed really well - let it air dry for a couple days... DRY ICE is available anywhere they sell fish - try your local grocery store.

I was going to have the pump draw out of one compartment of the box and have the return dump into another compartment. This will allow me to recess the box down about 1" below the top of the tank so i can get the lines in and out of the top of the sump box. I have -8An aeroquip line running from the rear to the front and i also have the factory 5/16" line that i could use for return. Will that work for this application?. Sounds pretty good but a 3/8 return might be better. There are "rules" on line size - I just don't know them.

Thanks for the help. Bob

[Old66Tiger]

I was thinking about modifying my tank but now i am thinking of just getting a pre-made tank. I have narrowed in on either Rock Valley or Ricks. This is no canyon carver but a serious street car. I want a tank that is beautiful and performs like it should. I don't want issues with the pump running out of fuel due to sloshing, etc.

From the pictures that i see on Rick's site, the tanks are a brushed finish and look great. I have seen some pictures on the board for the RV tanks and they are not as polished. OR am I wrong? so hard to tell from pictures on the boards.

[David Pozzi]

Take a look at the Ricks Vaporworx tank, it uses a late model fuel bucket with pump inside and is proven to work.

[Old66Tiger]

I looked at those tanks but you are confined to only that pump with no options for upgrading in the future. on top of that, it is almost $1500 for the tank and pump.

[snaponbilly]

FINALLY a thread on the EZ EFI install!!! i need some ideas/ help as well. i'm running a Jim Butler 492 in a '79 tenth anniversary Trans Am. dynoed at about 590HP if i remember correctly. bought the kit from them as well, but am having trouble trying to figure out what to do with the fuel line(s) connections and the stock tank and sending unit.
i'm restoring this car and soon i'll be ready to set up the EFI, so i'm doing my homework since i've never done mods before this heavy. the car has a complete suspension from GW, Baer brakes, etc. i'm going for a factory "modified" look rather than a total differant look. all my mods so far are underneath the surface, so i too am not a fan of the fuel tank sump appearance. look forward to the ideas!

[GregWeld]

You can run an internal EFI pump and pre-filter. I don't know who makes a stock replacement tank for your car - but if you know who does - then ask if they do an internal pump version.

You'll have to discuss with Butler and or FAST what fueling your motor will need and size the pump accordingly. Ditto the injectors. I assume you're planning on using the EZ EFI throttle body? I think it will support 600hp... Check with them to make sure. You don't want to run that bad boy lean!

Fuel line size is also dependent on the hp and fueling needs. Running -8 for a feed line and a -6 should be fine.

[GregWeld]

Check out Spectra Premium Products. They make a replacement fuel tank for your 79 Trans Am .... and they also make EFI fuel pumps. Maybe they have a drop in unit that would fit the stock fuel tank.

[snaponbilly]

the kit i bought actually came with evrything, includign the fuel pump, lines, fittings, etc. its the "complete" version of thier kit. thats why i wanted to find a way to use the factory tank and/ or lines if i can.

[GregWeld]

The pump will draw (pull) fuel -- so I would use the existing fuel line and pick up in the tank to supply the fuel --- and then you'll just have to add a return line.

[Old66Tiger]

I ponied up and bought a Ricks tank. WOW, what a work of art! Hector at Ricks said that -6an for supply and return should be plenty. I am thinking about placing a fuel distribution Y right before the two main rails so that it distributes fuel evenly between the rails. I may weld a stud to the floor pan of the car and mount the Y there and then come off the Y with the Aeroquip teflon hoses to the rails. I am thinking about mounting the fuel regulator where the factory fuel pump once was. I will run the return lines from the rails to the regulator and then the regulator to the return line.

I am debating on how much hard line I want to run at the moment. I thought about running aluminum in the 5052-O (.035" wall) type as this seems to be the consensus for malleable tubing. I am not worried about heat issues related to the tubing as that is not a problem as long as the tubing is secured properly. Pretty exciting stuff.

[snaponbilly]

ugh, so many ideas, i don't know where to start

[GregWeld]

Billy ---

Dude -- you have to do it just like the rest of us.... don't over think it -- just start and it will all come together. One fitting and one line at a time -- just like wiring -- you just work on one end of it - run it and secure it every half an inch (kidding) and then you get to the other end and hook it up.

Fueling isn't that complicated... unless you're doing big Horsey power.... and turbos or blowers etc.

You just need to pick up the fuel - filter it first - then to the pump - then to the rails - from there the rails to the regulator - and return it to the tank. Super easy! :lol:

[Old66Tiger]

I am planning out my fuel system and am going with a front mounted regulator. Looking for some pictures of those who have done this before me...especially Pontiacs.

[GregWeld]

Regulator doesn't care where it is - as long as you think about it as the thumb over a shaken up bottle of champagne/pop.

Aeroquip has a great website with many diagrams of various fuel system "options" and routing.

Nobody can help you plan your system - especially via a thread like this. Every car is different - each application is different - each wallet is different. Check out the Aeroquip site and that will give you invaluable information and a "picture" you can get in your head to help you design yours.

Keep elbows/90's to absolute minimum... route away from heat sources...and think about HIGH pressure FUEL.... don't skimp on a critical system like this.

I'd try - if at all possible - to put the fuel pump IN the tank. It helps keep it cool and keeps the noise down. It's not critical - but it's good to start out if you're starting out fresh.